[12:11] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I'mm make a point and eventually reping you on monday if there is no other package accepted in the archives :)
[12:11] <Tonio_> s/mm/ll
[12:11] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: probably another package accepted, since there is no reason to reject this appart from that
[12:12] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: the only thing I changed is add missing builddep to fix ftbfs
[12:13] <BenC> superm1: Don't rev the changelog
[12:13] <superm1> Benc, I saw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild?highlight=%28kernel%29 after pinging you
[12:13] <BenC> superm1: Your patch should not touch anything in debian/* (at least what you send me shouldn't)
[12:13] <superm1> i'm building that way locally
[12:13] <BenC> no need, that's meant for people who want to keep their changes even after an update from the repo
[12:14] <superm1> oh?
[12:14] <BenC> s/repo/archive/
[12:14] <superm1> well whats the appropriate way to make sure this patch builds right then?
[12:14] <BenC> superm1: the parts to change the changelog are for when you don't want ubuntu kernels to overwrite your own
[12:14] <BenC> superm1: apply patch, "fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs flavours=generic"
[12:15] <superm1> okay thats what i was doing 
[12:19] <superm1> BenC, and if the build fails, is there an easy way for me to make it pick back up where it left off after fixing the file?  (hasn't gotten to the ubuntu/* directory yet, but in case it does)
[12:20] <superm1> i'd imagine debian/rules binary-debs calls debian/rules clean first
[12:35] <glick> hi
[12:38] <Hobbsee> mpt: +1 at the suggestion to remove the "report a bug" option.  although kde does it.
[12:39] <mpt> Hobbsee, oh, I got moderated through to ubuntu-devel@? yay
[12:41] <Hobbsee> mpt: seems so.  if you only sent it to -devel that is
[12:41] <Hobbsee> yep, you did
[12:41] <glick> hey can anyone recommend any reading for someone wanting to get started in kernel devel?
[12:42] <Hobbsee> glick: probably ask someone like BenC or look on the wiki
[12:42] <Hobbsee> not sure where exactly, as i dont do kernel stuff
[12:42] <Hobbsee> or see #ubuntu-kernel
[12:42] <glick> hmm thanks
[12:42] <glick> whose BenC ?
[12:42] <mpt> Ben Collins, Ubuntu kernel maintainer
[12:43] <glick> cool
[12:45] <Fujitsu> mpt: We haven't had a whole lot of bugs from the menu option yet... But that's probably because the current audience is more technically competent.
[12:46] <Hobbsee> we stiill get some really...stupid...bugs though
[12:46] <Fujitsu> We're always going to get really stupid ones.
[12:50] <mpt> Fujitsu, there's a useful difference between "lots of stupid ones" and "a few stupid ones" :-)
[12:50] <Fujitsu> True.
[12:50] <pax> stupidity keeps the balance, without it the 'haves' will have nobody to impress. The 'have-nots' nobody to blame.
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Well, actually, not really. We already have 25000 bugs open now, a few thousand extra won't make a difference.
[05:47] <Burgundavia> keescook: you around?
[06:27] <benb> where is the best place to read about becoming a developer for ubuntu?
[06:28] <benb> note to self...  read the topic
[06:40] <sladen> benb: :)  Yup, and hit the wiki (google for  ubuntu motu)
[06:57] <NoSense> hi
[06:57] <NoSense> my ps/2 doesn't work in feisty fawn beta
[06:58] <NoSense> ihave only upgraded from edgy
[06:58] <Fujitsu> This isn't a support channel, NoSense. Try #ubuntu+1
[06:58] <NoSense> thanks, but it can be a bug
[07:04] <bluefoxicy> oh
[07:04] <bluefoxicy> the ps/2 thing is probably.. no, nevermind.  It's not that.
[07:06] <bluefoxicy> been meaning to mention that but haven't gotten around to it.  Anyway.
[08:01] <desrt> nice to see the archive grind to a halt as feisty beta gets dugg :)
[08:06] <Burgundavia> heh
[08:07] <Fujitsu> Hehe, it'd be nice to have traffic graphs around releases.
[08:10] <jhernandez> Hi :)
[08:12] <jhernandez> I have a problem with my deb package, all my files are installed in / directory.
[08:42] <Admiral_Chicago> can someone point me to the bazaar branch for apport?
[08:43] <Admiral_Chicago> wait, google did
[11:18] <zyga> hello
[12:41] <doko> Mithrandir: please could you requeue glibc/amd64 on another buildd? the build failure is unreproducible on ronne
[12:41] <eternalswd> Just wondering about coreutils version numbers.  Feisty has 5.97 as it's package version but the most recent stable version available at the gnu site is 6.9  Is this just a version numbering issue where ubuntu numbers it differently, or is that particular package really that far behind?
[12:46] <Mithrandir> doko: no, it's a kernel limitation; fix scripts/check-local-headers.sh to use xargs.
[12:47] <doko> Mithrandir: so why do we have to make such changes during release phases? ...
[12:48] <Mithrandir> doko: I have no control over which kernel the buildds run.
[12:48] <Mithrandir> doko: also, it seems it died of inactivity.  It was probably hung.
[12:49] <doko> Mithrandir: correct, the scripts/check-local-headers.sh is unrelated; it's a parallel build.
[12:50] <Mithrandir> doko: but that's an error too. :-P
[12:51] <Mithrandir> (and should be fixed)
[12:53] <doko> Mithrandir: maybe, but it's not the cause for the build failure
[12:56] <doko> Mithrandir: please requeue to check if the timeout is showing up on another buildd
[02:32] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir, or any other archive admin, when you have time/inclination, could you shove the rest of the beryl stuff?  i think it's in binary NEW, and i'm wondering how much crack's in it.
[02:40] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: doing so already
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: thanks :)
[02:40] <Mithrandir> (-:
[02:42] <racarr> Thanks
[02:51] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: any chance you could push through kuickshow as well please?  :)
[02:51] <ajmitch> you're asking for a lot today
[02:51] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, i'm mean, like that.
[02:52] <ajmitch> heh :)
[02:53] <tsmithe> Mithrandir, do you know why wired was rejected?
[02:59] <Mithrandir> tsmithe: no, the uploader should have been mailed by the archive admin doing the rejection.  I can ask who did it tomorrow.
[02:59] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: already done.
[03:00] <tsmithe> Mithrandir, cheers.
[03:00] <tsmithe> Adri2000 should have been pinged, but he's been away for a while
[03:01] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: great, thanks :)
[03:35] <tsmithe> Mithrandir, do you know of any case where that mail would not get sent. it would seem Adri2000 got nothing
[03:36] <tsmithe> (he uploaded ubuntu2, but both ubuntu1 and ubuntu2 were rejected)
[03:36] <Mithrandir> tsmithe: usually to the uploader, with a Cc to ubuntu-archive, but given that it didn't happen this time it was either a mistake (reject instead of accept) or the admin forgot
[03:37] <tsmithe> hrrmh
[03:37] <cjwatson> tsmithe: pitti sent a mail to you about it
[03:37] <cjwatson> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:35:45 +0100
[03:37] <cjwatson> From: Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com>
[03:37] <cjwatson> To: Toby Smithe <toby.smithe@gmail.com>
[03:37] <cjwatson> Subject: Rejecting wired
[03:37] <cjwatson> Message-ID: <20070323143545.GB5443@piware.de>
[03:38] <tsmithe> really... i received nothing, or at least i thought i received nothing
[03:38] <Adri2000> tsmithe: look into your gmail spam ;)
[03:38] <cjwatson> check your spam bin
[03:38] <tsmithe> i'll have a look again
[03:39] <tsmithe> thanks
[03:45] <tsmithe> cjwatson, i don't seem to have it anywhere, which is annoying
[03:47] <tsmithe> hmm so pdf files are a no-no
[03:47] <tsmithe> if i get want to get it included now, i'll need an exception, right?
[03:48] <cjwatson> only PDF files without source
[03:48] <tsmithe> yes
[04:36] <mjg59> Is anyone here using the wistron_btns driver?
[04:48] <ivoks> mjg59: umm... synaptics is now almost useless... :/
[04:50] <mjg59> ivoks: How so, and on what hardware?
[04:50] <ivoks> mjg59: i was just going to LP and provide info
[04:50] <mjg59> Feel free to just let me know here
[04:51] <ivoks> mjg59: scroll is slow; i have to seep finger two-three times to scroll like one can scroll with arrow-pad
[04:52] <mjg59> ivoks: scroll as in horizontal and vertical scrolling, rather than scroll as in moving the pointer across the screen, right?
[04:52] <mjg59> Is this a synaptics device or an alps one?
[04:52] <ivoks> mjg59: vertical
[04:54] <ivoks> mjg59: alps
[04:54] <mjg59> Ok.
[04:54] <ivoks> AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint
[04:55] <mjg59> Ah, I suck
[04:56] <mjg59> Hang on, let me build you a test package
[04:57] <ivoks> man, you don't suck
[04:57] <ivoks> :)
[04:58] <mjg59> ivoks: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics_0.14.6-0ubuntu7_i386.deb
[04:58] <mjg59> ivoks: Install that, restart X and then let me know if it works any better?
[04:58] <ivoks> ok
[04:59] <mjg59> I think I just got a couple of calculations the wrong way round
[04:59] <ivoks> brb
[05:01] <ivoks> mjg59: it's faster, but not like it use to be :)
[05:01] <mjg59> ivoks: Ok, it's arguably correct now and slightly broken in the past :)
[05:01] <ivoks> if you say so :)
[05:02] <mjg59> The default speeds should now be the same regardless of what sort of pad you have - before, it varied depending on whether it was an Apple, ALPS or Synaptics device
[05:02] <mjg59> If you think it's too slow, I can bump it up slightly?
[05:02] <ivoks> maybe other users should give feedback too
[05:03] <tepsipakki> there are bug reports on synaptics :)
[05:03] <ivoks> :)
[05:04] <mjg59> Hrm.
[05:04] <mjg59> Yeah, previously alps was set much faster than synaptics
[05:04] <mjg59> They should now both be much the same
[05:04] <ivoks> before, i would sweep my finger and it would scroll all the way, to the end
[05:04] <mjg59> Oh, hm.
[05:05] <ivoks> now i have to sweep 4-5 times
[05:05] <mjg59> No, maybe I've still screwed up.
[05:05] <ivoks> take your time...
[05:06] <mjg59> ivoks: Can you re-download the same package, install it again and restart X again?
[05:06] <ivoks> sure
[05:07] <ivoks> brb
[05:10] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Seen 95253?
[05:10] <tepsipakki> mjg59: yes
[05:11] <tepsipakki> I guess..
[05:11] <ivoks> great! even better than before :)
[05:11] <mjg59> ivoks: Super
[05:12] <ivoks> my hero :D
[05:12] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Also, if we're setting defaults for synaptics, it should probably be done in the driver rather than xorg.conf
[05:13] <tepsipakki> oh wait, that's an intel machine and not powerpc.. attach your 'lspci -vvnn' to that
[05:14] <mjg59> tepsipakki: It's using vesa, which is correct
[05:14] <mjg59> The issue is that there's no useful values in the monitor section
[05:15] <tepsipakki> are there any values written?
[05:15] <mjg59> For hsync and vertrefresh? No
[05:15] <tepsipakki> so it needs an exception in xserver-xorg.postinst
[05:16] <tepsipakki> that's what the lspci is for ;)
[05:16] <tepsipakki> -log
[05:16] <mjg59> I don't think I understand. Why would it be an issue with this specific machine?
[05:16] <tepsipakki> err, output
[05:16] <mjg59> Rather than all of them using vesa?
[05:16] <tepsipakki> look at the postinst..
[05:16] <tepsipakki> there are exceptions all over the place
[05:17] <mjg59> I can't find any vesa-related exceptions...
[05:18] <andre_pl> very sorry to intrude in the devel channel, but i'm having a showstopper of a problem and nobody else can help.  every time I reboot my laptop the nvidia kernel module is gone. the file doesn't exist in /lib/modules and I have to uninstall and reinstall the nvidia-glx and linux-restricted-moudles package to get X to start... then if I reboot again, same deal.
[05:19] <tepsipakki> mjg59: not yet anyway :P
[05:19] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Sorry, I'm really not understanding this at all. Why do you think it's something that's specific to this machine, rather than an issue affecting everything using the vesa driver?
[05:19] <tepsipakki> when did it work?
[05:19] <mjg59> Worked fine in edgy
[05:19] <mjg59> andre_pl: Please file a bug at launchpad.net
[05:20] <ivoks> andre_pl: i've seen that...
[05:20] <andre_pl> mjg59: i intend to as soon as I can get to a browser thats a little more useful than links
[05:20] <ivoks> andre_pl: is that amd64 version?
[05:20] <mjg59> andre_pl: Also, make sure you have linux-restricted-modules-common installed
[05:20] <andre_pl> ivoks: no, its the generic kernel
[05:20] <ivoks> andre_pl: so... 32bit version of ubuntu?
[05:20] <mjg59> tepsipakki: I haven't been updating this machine religiously - the previous install on it was fesity, but pre-7.2 transition
[05:21] <andre_pl> ivoks: yes.
[05:21] <tepsipakki> mjg59: and it worked with pre-7.2?
[05:22] <andre_pl> mjg59: linux-restricted-modules-common is installed
[05:22] <mjg59> tepsipakki: I believe so, yes
[05:22] <ivoks> andre_pl: sudo apt-get --reinstall install linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`
[05:23] <tepsipakki> mjg59: could you attach Xorg.0.log from a non-working and a working X to that bug
[05:24] <andre_pl> ivoks: just waiting for it to finish removing the 386 modules.  why do they get pulled in along with the generics?
[05:24] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Not trivially, due to the breakage in casper that leaves me with no consoles
[05:24] <mjg59> tepsipakki: I'll see what I can do
[05:25] <tepsipakki> mjg59: thanks, hopefully we'll get somewhere
[05:25] <tepsipakki> the vesa driver was updated 1.2.1 -> 1.3.0 post herd5
[05:26] <ivoks> andre_pl: cause you didn't install linux-generic first
[05:26] <tepsipakki> mjg59: what chip does it have?
[05:26] <andre_pl> ivoks: I'll have to try that.  first priority is figuring out why this driver keeps disappearing though.
[05:26] <mjg59> r500
[05:27] <tepsipakki> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6772731/vesa-1.3.0-range-hack.patch
[05:27] <tepsipakki> that's included in the latest version, it's from fedora and it was specifically meant for r5xx
[05:27] <Ubugtu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): ubugtu will be taken offline and integrated with ubotu - epect some downtime
[05:29] <tepsipakki> mjg59: see bug #89853
[05:43] <mjg59> tepsipakki: That's a post-beta upload?
[05:44] <tepsipakki> nope
[05:44] <tepsipakki> hmm
[05:44] <tepsipakki> check your version
[05:44] <cr3> in casper, what creates /dev/loop0? I see that the loop module is being loaded and /sys/block/loop0 is created, but still no /dev entry :(
[05:47] <tepsipakki> oh
[05:47] <tepsipakki> "published 2007-03-24"
[05:48] <tepsipakki> so it wasn't in beta
[05:49] <tepsipakki> ..and now I see the acceptance mail from yesterday :)
[05:49] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Haha
[05:49] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Ok, sounds good
[05:50] <tepsipakki> mjg59: I'll just mark your bug as a dupe of that other one
[05:50] <mjg59> tepsipakki: Sounds good
[05:51] <tepsipakki> I have another vesa upload waiting, and that should make it perform better and fix a potential crash with randr
[06:37] <imbrandon> Mithrandir, ping ( beryl-plugins , source universe / binary main !? ) 
[06:37] <imbrandon> is that a booboo
[06:37] <imbrandon> brandon@hood:~$ sudo apt-cache madison beryl-plugins
[06:37] <imbrandon> beryl-plugins | 0.2.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Packages
[06:37] <imbrandon> beryl-plugins | 0.2.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
[06:41] <racarr> Small 'booboo'
[06:49] <mjg59> Anyone here using the acerhk driver?
[07:22] <zyga> anyone here has access to a mirror of all packages?
[07:22] <zyga> main + restricted + universe + multiverse?
[07:23] <shawarma> Er... Everyone has? They're public.
[07:23] <zyga> shawarma: I mean like on their filesystem with fast access?
[07:24] <shawarma> zyga: Ah.. No. Why?
[07:24] <zyga> shawarma: due to the inclusion of command-not-found into main I got some bugs to squash and I need my dataset
[07:24] <zyga> previously I mirrored everything but I'm not that bold now :P
[07:25] <zyga> (AFAIR it's about 50GB)
[07:25] <Seveas> zyga, more than doubled now :)
[07:25] <zyga> now I have a slightly better infrastructure so I can scan here and process there
[07:25] <shawarma> zyga: So you want access to a machine with a complete mirror on the file system?
[07:26] <zyga> shawarma: not access, just someone who will run a python extraction script
[07:26] <zyga> that script reads some basic info from each package and serializes it to a file
[07:26] <zyga> I can then process that file to generate data sets for cnf
[07:26] <shawarma> zyga: Ah, ok. Nothing that can be extracted from Packages and perhaps Contents?
[07:27] <zyga> shawarma: hmm?
[07:27] <Seveas> zyga, look at apt-file :)
[07:27] <zyga> shawarma: ah, unfortunatly no
[07:27] <Seveas> (if that's up-to-date for feisty)
[07:27] <zyga> apt-file doesn't know anything apart form the name
[07:27] <shawarma> zyga: I'm just curious about exactly what information you need that's not readily available.
[07:27] <zyga> shawarma: symlinks, hardlinks permissions and postinst script 
[07:28] <zyga> apt-get source command-not-found
[07:28] <zyga> and check out UnifiedDataExtractor/scan.data 
[07:28] <zyga> it's from the previous version but it's enough to understand what's going on
[07:28] <zyga> oh and architecture and repository 
[07:29] <shawarma> zyga: I'm probably slow, but which part of that file cannot be extracted directly from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/Contents-i386.gz ?
[07:30] <zyga> shawarma: none, everything is there 
[07:30] <shawarma> zyga: ..and the corresponding ones for other archs.
[07:30] <zyga> shawarma: hmm?
[07:30] <zyga> shawarma: I'd have to download each package
[07:30] <zyga> that's an option but it's usualy alot faster to just ask someone to run the script and be done with it ;] 
[07:31] <shawarma> zyga: No, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/Contents-i386.gz contains a list of files in each and every package in the archive for i386.
[07:31] <zyga> hmm
[07:31] <zyga> w8
[07:31] <shawarma> zyga: You'd only have to fetch one for each arch.
[07:31] <zyga> I'll check it out
[07:31] <shawarma> zyga: Do that. :-)
[07:31] <zyga> I still need postinst contents
[07:31] <zyga> (for every damn package)
[07:31] <shawarma> zyga: For what?
[07:31] <zyga> I'm looking for update-alternatives 
[07:32] <shawarma> zyga: To check for update-alternatives or stuff?
[07:32] <shawarma> zyga: Right,ok.
[07:32] <shawarma> gotta go
[07:32] <zyga> bye
[08:48] <tsmithe> who is in charge of planet ubuntu?
[08:49] <tsmithe> are they aware of http://ubuntu-linux.withishow.com/ ?
[08:49] <tsmithe> i don't feel comfortable with them taking the feed and spitting it out with adverts, and generating revenue on that
[08:50] <tsmithe> i didn't realise that by consenting to being aggregated by planet ubuntu, my work would be exploited elsewhere
[08:54] <mjg59> tsmithe: As the copyright holder of your content, you're free to send them a DMCA notification
[08:54] <tsmithe> DMCA?
[08:55] <tsmithe> i don't live in the USA, so i'm not sure what good that would do
[08:55] <mjg59> They're in the USA
[08:55] <mjg59> Therefore, they're subject to US laws
[08:55] <tsmithe> and that's all that matters?
[08:55] <tsmithe> good :)
[08:55] <mc44> yes
[08:57] <tsmithe> should i also notify the planet ubuntu operators?
[08:57] <mjg59> I don't see how that would help anything
[08:58] <andre_pl_> O-M-F-G. you people are amazing.  I thought Feisty was nice until I saw the WPA Support, and now I'm blown away... I have tried to get WPA working under edgy and gentoo for weeks and weeks to no avail.  wih festy is no harder than wep or unencrpyted networks.  Big HUGE Kudos.
[08:58] <tsmithe> well, canonical putting in a word might have greater effect than any word than me
[08:58] <tsmithe> even though that is an awful thing to admit
[08:59] <tsmithe> (why should a corporation have greater impact than an individual's voice?)
[08:59] <zyga> tsmithe: the fear of mighty lawyer army
[08:59] <mjg59> tsmithe: Canonical don't own the copyright
[08:59] <tsmithe> true. but they are providing the feed
[09:00] <mjg59> Yes. But they have no obvious legal standing here.
[09:00] <tsmithe> ok. so i'll just contact the owner of that site...
[09:01] <tsmithe> whoever that is
[09:01] <PriceChild> tsmithe, there's no details that I can find, and only dreamhost in the whois info
[09:01] <Mithrandir> send it to dreamhost, then.
[09:01] <tsmithe> sure thing
[09:01] <tsmithe> the hosting company have the power to bring it down
[09:02] <Mithrandir> or gwh@withishow.com, it seems
[09:02] <mc44> tsmithe: they even have a DMCA contact there :) jeff@dreamhost.com
[09:02] <tsmithe> juliux, what is this general admis list?
[09:03] <tsmithe> Mithrandir, so who is that?
[09:03] <juliux> tsmithe, i will search for it
[09:03] <tsmithe> i'll e-mail it to gwh@ and cc jeff@
[09:03] <Mithrandir> tsmithe: from http://withishow.com/about/ 
[09:03] <tsmithe> aha
[09:04] <PriceChild> gah how did I miss that :)
[09:04] <tsmithe> :)
[09:15] <hugo> BenC, hi
[09:16] <hugo> BenC, have anyone proposed the device manager suggested by you?
[09:17] <hugo> BenC, i am talking about the gsoc proposals.. =)
[09:35] <alex-weej> "    For computers based on the AMD64 or EM64T architecture (e.g., Athlon64, Opteron, EM64T Xeon). It is not necessary for all (even most) processors made by AMD -- only their 64 bit chips."
[09:36] <alex-weej> that reads "[The AMD64 CD]  is necessary for their 64-bit chips."
[09:36] <alex-weej> this is wrong, no?
[09:36] <cjwatson> It => the CD
[09:37] <alex-weej> Yeah
[09:37] <cjwatson> oh, I see
[09:37] <alex-weej> http://releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/
[09:37] <mjg59> cjwatson: Any idea why migration-assistant appears to run depmod -a?
[09:37] <cjwatson> mjg59: fixed post-beta
[09:37] <mjg59> cjwatson: Rock
[09:37] <cjwatson> was just a mistake in os-prober
[09:37] <alex-weej> my friend installed the AMD64 version and i had to let him down that he has no flash player, skype, or win32 codecs
[09:37] <cjwatson> alex-weej: right, I guess the text is slightly off
[09:37] <alex-weej> cjwatson: should i launchpad it?
[09:38] <cjwatson> alex-weej: suggest better text to me and there's no need
[09:38] <mjg59> cjwatson: Also, I managed to break the partitioner - I deleted the existing partition that covered most of the disk, then hit new and set up a 10GB partition. Busy cursor appeared and nothing happened for 5 minutes, then I hit the cancel button and it quit
[09:38] <mjg59> parted_server was waiting for input from the fifo, not doing anything
[09:38] <cjwatson> mjg59: bug, /var/log/syslog + /var/log/partman
[09:39] <cjwatson> I'm not dealing with ubiquity bugs on IRC, I'd never get anything done. :)
[09:39] <mjg59> cjwatson: Are they archived anywhere post-install?
[09:39] <cjwatson> mjg59: /var/log/installer/
[09:39] <mjg59> Got them
[09:39] <mjg59> Will file later on
[09:39] <cjwatson> thanks
[09:39] <cjwatson> I know of 64-bit arithmetic breakage in the beta, but that's probably not what this is
[09:39] <mjg59> Oh - I restarted the installer and redid partitioning. Would that have blown it away?
[09:40] <cjwatson> no, it appends
[09:40] <mjg59> Cool.
[09:42] <cjwatson> alex-weej: how about I just replace the last sentence with "For non-64-bit processors made by AMD, use the i386 images instead."?
[09:43] <alex-weej> cjwatson: "Choose this if you have an AMD64 or EM64T based processor and wish to take full advantage of it. Note that you may still run the Intel x86 version on these processors. _Click here for more information_"
[09:43] <alex-weej> with a link to the wiki
[09:43] <alex-weej> because there are some advantages to running i386 on an amd64 (the 32-bit app support)
[09:43] <alex-weej> and you don't want to overwhelm the user at that stage
[09:43] <cjwatson> there are also considerable advantages to running amd64 on an amd64
[09:44] <mjr> s/may/can/ perchance
[09:44] <alex-weej> yes, but things like flash player / skype matter more to joe average :)
[09:44] <cjwatson> (funny how everyone thinks joe average == people they know)
[09:44] <mjr> I mean, it's not like it'd be forbidden to run it even if it wasn't possible ;] 
[09:44] <alex-weej> i can't make assumptions for people i don't know, cjwatson :P
[09:44] <cjwatson> no, but if you don't know you don't get to make statistical claims
[09:45] <alex-weej> just change it so that it doesn't claim that it is "necessary" for amd64
[09:45] <alex-weej> but then amd64 users will still be confused when given the choice
[09:45] <cjwatson> that's tough, it's a valid choice which we can't simplify away
[09:45] <alex-weej> a wizard would be nice
[09:46] <alex-weej> Q. What's your processor? A. AMD64 | Q. Do you care about 32-bit application support? A. Yes | -> i386
[09:46] <cjwatson> I'm happy to add text, links, whatever, but not a wizard - there's enough complexity there already. Anything like a wizard belongs on www.ubuntu.com, not releases.ubuntu.com.
[09:46] <alex-weej> cjwatson: agreed
[09:46] <alex-weej> cjwatson: in that case, maybe even simplify it
[09:48] <alex-weej> oops.
[09:48] <cjwatson> Choose this to take full advantage of computers based on the AMD64 or EM64T
[09:48] <cjwatson> architecture (e.g., Athlon64, Opteron, EM64T Xeon). If you have a non-64-bit
[09:48] <cjwatson> processor made by AMD, or if you need compatibility with 32-bit
[09:48] <cjwatson> applications, use the Intel x86 images instead.
[09:48] <cjwatson> how about that?
[09:48] <alex-weej> sounds good to me
[09:48] <cjwatson> maybe s/compatibility with/support for/
[09:49] <alex-weej> yeah "support for"
[09:49] <cjwatson> actually, "full support for"
[09:49] <cjwatson> because the amd64 system *does* have some support for 32-bit applications - actually it's only really plugins that have a problem
[09:49] <alex-weej> btw, my friend tried to install the i386 skype deb and it whinged at him about the arch mismatch
[09:49] <cjwatson> or things with complex library dependencies
[09:49] <cjwatson> well, indeed
[09:49] <cjwatson> but that's not 32-bit applications, that's i386 .debs
[09:50] <alex-weej> because the deb package stuff still isn't quite multi-arch yet
[09:50] <cjwatson> I know.] 
[09:50] <alex-weej> do you know what happened to that? i thought it was "close" about 2 years ago? :S
[09:50] <cjwatson> -> somebody else
[09:50] <alex-weej> shame
[09:50] <cjwatson> afaik just hasn't had time
[09:50] <alex-weej> oh well
[09:50] <alex-weej> but given that, it's /not/ just plugins that are the problem then is it?
[09:50] <alex-weej> at least atm
[09:51] <cjwatson> *shrug* "no support for 32-bit applications" is still inaccurate
[09:51] <alex-weej> but we're not saying it has no support there
[09:51] <alex-weej> we;re saying that for the best support, use i386
[09:51] <cjwatson> "if you need support for 32-bit applications, go here instead" implies that there is no support for 32-bit applications
[09:51] <cjwatson> "full support" is ok
[09:51] <alex-weej> well there's no support for i386 debs
[09:52] <cjwatson> yes but that's NOT THE SAME THING
[09:52] <alex-weej> i know
[09:52] <alex-weej> but to most people it would be :P
[09:52] <alex-weej> in a utopian world, where everybody ships debs :P
[09:52] <cjwatson> look, can we stop this? I said I'd say "full support" and that should be fine
[09:52] <cjwatson> you're kind of hammering on and on
[09:52] <alex-weej> i wasn't arguing otherwise...
[09:52] <alex-weej> sheesh
[09:53] <cjwatson> it's a Sunday night, tetchiness is to be expected :)
[09:53] <alex-weej> you were the one saying "compatibility with"? no, "support for"? no, "full support for"? no... :P
[09:54] <alex-weej> ctrl+W is easier in the heat of it all
[09:54] <alex-weej> (i didn't mean that :P)
[09:55] <cjwatson> I'll just say "if you need full support for 32-bit code" I guess and dodge the issue
[09:55] <cjwatson> ok?
[09:55] <alex-weej> fine by me
[09:55] <cjwatson> right, cool
[09:55] <alex-weej> but you could also just dodge it entirely and simply describe what the ISO is with no description of the implications
[09:56] <alex-weej> and leave it to a "wizard" on w.u.c
[09:56] <cjwatson> too late, committed, I'm going to do something more fun now ;)
[09:56] <alex-weej> ok :P
[09:56] <Mithrandir> alex-weej: dude, stop it now.
[09:57] <cjwatson> I appreciate the bug report and am grateful for it, but I don't really want to end up in an endless discussion of it ...
[09:57] <mjg59> Hm. Ok, so that didn't quite work.
[11:01] <hunger> Now that the vitualbox kernel module is in feisty, do you consider adding the rest as well?
[11:04] <superm1> BenC, ping
[11:11] <shawarma> hunger: /win 3
[11:11] <shawarma> whoops
[11:23] <hugo> BenC, are you there?
[11:23] <superm1> hugo, i pinged him about 20 min ago, wasnt here at that point
[11:25] <superm1> BenC, i've gotta run, but i just wanted to bring bug 69534 to your attention.  i finished up the patch and wanted to see if you could look it over and let me know what you think of it.
[11:25] <ubotu> Malone bug 69534 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Add lirc to linux-source build tree" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69534
[11:25] <hugo> superm1, thanks
[11:25] <superm1> i'll stop in later
[11:28] <zyga> does anyone around have any *practical* experience with debugging memory leaks in python programs?
[11:29] <desrt> i guess you mean finding memory leaks in C code called from python?
[11:29] <zyga> no 
[11:29] <desrt> python has memory management
[11:30] <zyga> I'm wondering what the heck in a rather small program keeps hogging memory
[11:30] <desrt> it doesn't leak.
[11:30] <zyga> I'm using several pythonic libraries, some from python some from ubuntu/debian
[11:30] <zyga> okay: s/python/python-script/g
[11:30] <desrt> right... python scripts don't leak memory... unless you're linking to some C that does
[11:30] <zyga> the fact is: it seems to leak 
[11:31] <desrt> so start looking for things that aren't leaks but seem like leaks
[11:31] <zyga> it can sure 'leak' in a sense that something keeps holding memory when you didn't mean to 
[11:31] <zyga> I do get the difference I just want to get this over with
[11:31] <zyga> I tried gc.debug but it's worthless IMHO
[11:32] <desrt> i guess yr looking for some tool to backtrace where memory allocations are made from (ala massif?)
[11:32] <zyga> I'd like to be able to see a snapshot of the memory allocation tree 
[11:32] <zyga> s/tree/graph/
[11:32] <zyga> and check out what's there that was not supposed to be around so long
[11:32] <desrt> tall order :)
[11:33] <zyga> gc.get_objects() is somewhat tricky as it tells me just that
[11:33] <zyga> but I need a smart way to make use of it
[11:33] <desrt> finding the objects probably won't be too much help
[11:33] <zyga> it might
[11:33] <desrt> yr gonna want to know what code path allocated them
[11:33] <zyga> the program is dead-simple
[11:34] <desrt> i guess you suspect a library?
[11:34] <zyga> I will know the objects once I see them
[11:34] <desrt> gotcha.
[11:34] <zyga> bah
[11:34] <zyga> apt_inst is binary 
[11:34] <desrt> you already know more about this than i do.  clearly :)
[11:34] <zyga> so is apt_pkg
[11:34] <zyga> I don't know how to debug them :/
[11:35] <zyga> I really suspect there is a leak - a simple program that streams stuff from one place to the other just keeps getting bigger
[11:35] <zyga> after scanning several gigs of data it's over 400MB 
[11:35] <zyga> and it should _not_ grow