[12:27] <giangy> mh
[01:17] <Johnny5_> nickserv register johnny5
[01:18] <jmg> hello all
[01:18] <Johnny5_> hey
[01:18] <jmg> im trying to patch a package using quilt (libsdl1.2)
[01:18] <jmg> it's not as straight forward as dpatch
[01:19] <jmg> is there similar functionality to dpatch-edit-patch possible with quilt?
[01:20] <Johnny5_> I have a suggestion for the "Ubuntu restricted extas" package.
[01:21] <Johnny5_> The package seems to be only missing one thing. The libdvdcss2 file
[01:22] <jmg> that cannot be included 
[01:24] <Johnny5_> I did manually install it, but it seems when you play a dvd through totem, you can not just select "play dvd" in the totem menu
[01:25] <Johnny5_> It only play's when you put the dvd and the autoplay recognizes the dvd
[01:25] <Johnny5_> Or if you open a location "dvd://"
[01:26] <Johnny5_> so perhaps there is a slight issue with totem.
[01:26] <Johnny5_> There is no point for totem to have a button to play a DVD if it doesn't work even if you have the libdvdcss2 file installed.
[01:28] <Johnny5_> Where can I go to make a suggestion to the developers of totem? Is there an open forum, or website? I realize totem is developed through gnome, or as part of gnome.
[01:28] <Nafallo> Johnny5_: bugzilla.gnome.org
[01:28] <Johnny5_> thanks.
[01:30] <Johnny5_> feisty is working great other than that. I have had no problems. The 3d effects work pretty well though they it is just eyecandy
[01:35] <Johnny5_> Search feature on Firefox 2.0 and higher, has bad search feature. There are no options. It's just a text box.
[01:36] <Nafallo> Johnny5_: better to file bugs when you find them :-)
[01:36] <Nafallo> Johnny5_: https://launchpad.net
[01:37] <Johnny5_> are most programs on there??
[01:38] <Nafallo> that's the bug tracking system ubuntu uses
[01:40] <Johnny5_> Thanks again. Unfortunately at the moment I don't know enough about programming to help out directly, but I certainly can make some good suggestions to improve ubuntu software.
[01:48] <reitblatt> any idea why opensync-plugin-google-calendar seems to be in main while all the opensync stuff is in unvierse?
[01:48] <ajmitch> no, and I'd say it shouldn't be
[01:49] <ajmitch> something weird going on there
[01:49] <reitblatt> well, besides the fact that it doesn't even work...
[01:49] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: in case you're awake still, opensync-plugin-google-calendar is another that appears to have binaries in main, with source in universe
[01:49] <reitblatt> bug #84874
[01:50] <ubotu> Malone bug 84874 in libopensync-plugin-google-calendar "missing helper" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84874
[02:23] <alex-weej> can someone give me a hint as to where to look for the fix that fixed https://launchpad.net/bugs/71040 please?
[02:23] <ubotu> Malone bug 71040 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Kernel 2.6.20 reboots instead of shutting down" [Medium,Fix released]  
[02:33] <mpt> asac, once you're awake, I'm interested in hearing more about this "tailored bug workflow" the mozilla team has
[02:35] <mpt> If different teams have different meanings for the same bug statuses, that makes collaboration across projects more difficult
[02:35] <mpt> so it'll be good to come up with a set of statuses and meanings that suit the most projects
[02:37] <hugo> BenC, ping
[02:38] <BenC> hugo: pong
[02:38] <hugo> BenC, i wrote a proposal to the device-manager
[02:38] <BenC> hugo: what sort of proposal?
[02:39] <hugo> BenC, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeviceManagerSpec
[02:39] <hugo> BenC, but i dont know if it is good explained
[02:40] <hugo> BenC, have anyone proposed this idea too?
[02:40] <BenC> hugo: I don't see the idea, where in there is it?
[02:40] <hugo> BenC, i did not submitted yet
[02:41] <BenC> hugo: then how can I know what it is?
[02:41] <hugo> BenC, can i send a mail to you ?
[02:41] <BenC> hugo: yes, please
[02:42] <hugo> BenC, i put here; http://atum.caco.ic.unicamp.br/~hugo/home/device-manager
[02:43] <superm1> BenC, you see my note earlier about lirc?
[02:44] <BenC> superm1: Yes, I'll have to take a look tomorrow morning
[02:44] <superm1> BenC, very good
[02:44] <superm1> BenC, i ran into a minor issue with one module, but the rest tested fine (linsmod'ing them)
[02:44] <BenC> hugo: What in your proposal is any different than what is already in the spec?
[02:45] <BenC> hugo: The spec is not for details like you've outlined
[02:45] <hugo> BenC, i am thinking in change the UI to group devices
[02:45] <BenC> hugo: Were you one of the ones that emailed me about SoC for this project?
[02:45] <hugo> BenC, no
[02:46] <hugo> BenC, i dont know your mail
[02:46] <BenC> hugo: I have two applicants for this project to do it for Google's Summer of Code, so I need to see about what's going on
[02:47] <BenC> hugo: Email me at bcollins@ubuntu.com (the info you just posted) and I'll have to talk to someone about how to handle this...I'd really hate to see 3 people working on the same thing and going off in different directions, or worse just doing the same thing separately
[02:47] <hugo> BenC, my initial idea was to implement the proposal
[02:48] <BenC> hugo: I've already partially implemented it, but the rest needs udev changes in order to work
[02:48] <hugo> BenC, perhaps you will need choose between the 3
[02:48] <BenC> hugo: I have a project started on launchpad.net
[02:50] <hugo> BenC, ok, my idea would implement more since what is done
[02:50] <hugo> BenC, i am really interested in this idea, i passed any time studying this proposal
[02:51] <BenC> hugo: I realy appreciate your interest in it. I'm just trying to make sure this is done fairly
[02:52] <BenC> hugo: There's nothing I can do to stop anyone working on it, but if we are going to include it, then I need to make sure it's done properly and suitable for our needs
[02:52] <hugo> BenC, ok
[02:53] <hugo> BenC, can you help me on a idea needed by Ubuntu available to be proposed?
[02:59] <sladen> mpt: maybe "Needs Info" is actually "Debugging"
[03:00] <sladen> mpt: and maybe there is a separate "Needs User followup to progress" (which should time out after 30days and close the bug)
[03:00] <reitblatt> did launchpad just go down for ayone else?
[03:01] <sladen> yup.
[03:03] <hugo> BenC, the implementation you made is in gtk?
[03:07] <BenC> hugo: It's based on hal-device-manager
[03:08] <hugo> BenC, i am asking because theres a qt version
[03:09] <BenC> hugo: hal-device-manager is PyGlade (gtk)
[03:09] <hugo> BenC, i could implement based on kde-hal-device-manager too
[03:10] <BenC> hugo: One of the people asking to do it for SoC wants to make the core UI-independent so it can be used for kde/gnome
[03:10] <BenC> avoids too much duplication
[03:12] <hugo> appears the wiki is out..
[03:21] <alex-weej> and launchpad
[03:24] <mpt> sladen, what would be the difference between "Debugging" and "Unconfirmed"?
[03:25] <sladen> mpt: it tends to move out of unconfirmed when somebody takes ownership (starts proactively interacting with the reported)
[03:25] <sladen> mpt: users really hate seeing their bugs as Unconfirmed, so there's also a tendancy (I believe) to move them to Needs Info to imply that they have at least been looked at
[03:27] <sladen> mpt: I'd quite often [personally]  like to be able to set up   Confirmed ("yes, we know this happens")+Needs Info ("we haven't yet worked out /how/ (which method) to fix it by")
[07:04] <fabbione> morning
[08:28] <pitti> Good morning
[08:28] <Hobbsee> hi pitti!
[08:28] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[08:40] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: indeed, I'll demote it.
[09:02] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: do you have a NEW package exception for libclass-trait-perl?
[09:03] <pochu> pitti: where is apport's compiz? there is no ~/.apport dir
[09:03] <pitti> pochu: hmmm?
[09:05] <pochu> pitti: isn't there an apport dir for the preferences? (such as: don't ask again)
[09:07] <pitti> pochu: there is a file for that: ~/.apport-ignore.xml
[09:08] <RAOF> pitti: It's been suggested that I ask you about the apport-retrace for bug #95814 - it was marked with need-amd64-retrace about 20 hours ago, and doesn't seem to have got a retrace.
[09:08] <ubotu> Malone bug 95814 in banshee "[apport]  banshee.exe crashed with SIGSEGV (dup-of: 67344)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95814
[09:08] <ubotu> Malone bug 67344 in banshee "Crash while importing / trying to play at the same time" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67344
[09:08] <pochu> pitti: thanks
[09:08] <pitti> RAOF: let me have a llook
[09:08] <pitti> oh
[09:08] <pitti> RAOF: it's a duplicate
[09:09] <pitti> RAOF: the retracer doesn't consider those
[09:09] <RAOF> Ah, ok.
[09:09] <RAOF> I'll have to unduplicate it and then re-add the tag, then?
[09:10] <pitti> RAOF: is it actually necessary? the original bug isn't enough?
[09:11] <RAOF> None of the original bug have stacktraces.
[09:11] <pitti> RAOF: then duplicate it the other way around rather?
[09:11] <RAOF> Also, I'm no longer sure that the bugs are actually duplicates.
[09:12] <RAOF> pitti: Thanks./
[09:14] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if you are not busy could you please give your opinion to bugs #96072 and #96076 ?
[09:14] <ubotu> Malone bug 96072 in initramfs-tools "initramfs doesn't support setting NETBOOT variable for casper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96072
[09:14] <ubotu> Malone bug 96076 in casper "network interface must be enabled before calling nfsmount" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96076
[09:16] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I can do in a bit.
[09:16] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sure thanks
[09:17] <fabbione> Mithrandir: also.. as soon as i can get back my workstation i am going to bug you again about redhat-cluster-suite. We have a bunch of code clean up and bug fixes to pull it on top of that one liner we already agreed on
[09:18] <Mithrandir> sure
[09:19] <Mithrandir> Mez: #69479, why have you subscribed the release team?
[09:19] <reitblatt> Bug #69479
[09:19] <ubotu> Malone bug 69479 in katapult "SRU: katapult" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69479
[09:36] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: do you know how f-spot 0.3.6 is coming along?
[09:36] <dholbach> hellas
[09:38] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: not released yet, and the main fix that was needed for it is in the 0.3.5 we have
[09:39] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: ok.
[09:41] <dholbach> ogra: new dia (looks like final)
[09:53] <slomo> Mithrandir: hi... can you take another short look at bug #93540? 1.2.9 was released recently with a bugfix, two new preferences options that people wanted very strongly and a performance fix... if that's fine with you i'll skip 1.2.8 completely ;)
[09:53] <ubotu> Malone bug 93540 in liferea "UVF exception: liferea 1.2.9" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93540
[09:55] <Mithrandir> slomo: looks good; approved.
[09:55] <slomo> Mithrandir: thanks
[10:15] <daseeb> hello... mhm... I developed an application that needs to link with option "-lgcc_s" but in /lib there is only a /lib/libgcc_s.so.1. why doesn't the symlink to libgcc_s.so exist? how should I properly set this up to share my sourcecode and others can compile it easily?
[10:15] <hunger> daseeb: Are you sure you need that? IIRC gcc_s is always linked in by gcc.
[10:17] <daseeb> hunger: I think so... it's a little bit weird. I use fmod. this is an audio library. When I link to libfmod.so I get an error /usr/bin/../lib/libfmod.so: undefined reference to `__divdi3'
[10:17] <daseeb> I use freepascal as compiler
[10:18] <daseeb> some people from fmod team suggested me to link to libgcc_s.so to solve the linking problem
[10:20] <Mithrandir> sounds like libfmod isn't properly linked.
[10:20] <pochu> good morning heno :)
[10:20] <heno> morning pochu :)
[10:22] <daseeb> mithrandir: mhm... ok... what exactly does this mean... what should be done to link fmod properly? how can I find out if fmod isn't linke dproperly?
[10:23] <Mithrandir> daseeb: is libfmod linked against libgcc_s?
[10:23] <daseeb> daseeb@daseeb-desktop:/usr/lib$ ldd libfmod.so
[10:23] <daseeb>         linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xffffe000)
[10:23] <daseeb>         libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (0xb7e01000)
[10:23] <daseeb>         libdl.so.2 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl.so.2 (0xb7dfd000)
[10:23] <daseeb>         libm.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libm.so.6 (0xb7dd7000)
[10:23] <daseeb>         libpthread.so.0 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0 (0xb7dc3000)
[10:23] <daseeb>         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)
[10:23] <daseeb> does this help?
[10:24] <Mithrandir> yes, it's not linked against it.
[10:24] <daseeb> should it be linked against it?
[10:24] <Mithrandir> I don't know why; you might actually want to talk with doko, who's our toolchain guy and might know why gcc didn't link in libgcc_s correctly there.
[10:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: there is a new libcairo bug fix version (1.4.0 to 1.4.2), is that ok to update?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you have the changelog?
[10:27] <doko> daseeb: you should show us the command line you use for linking
[10:27] <seb128> Mithrandir: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2007-March/msg00065.html
[10:27] <Mithrandir> doko: please read the last 30-ish lines and please correct me if I said something wrong there.
[10:27] <seb128> doko: hi, did you read my python setlocale question on friday?
[10:29] <Mithrandir> seb128: how does the malloc-vs-stack usage affect thread-safeness, or isn't cairo threadsafe to begin with?
[10:30] <doko> seb128: sorry. maybe not
[10:31] <daseeb> mithrandir: "/usr/bin/ld -b elf32-i386 -m elf_i386  -dynamic-linker=/lib/ld-linux.so.2  -L. -o ../cactus_jukebox ../link.res" 
[10:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: cairo is not really threadsafe to begin with
[10:32] <hunger> Any chance of seeing #78021? It contains a reference to another bug that seems to have the fix attached.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> daseeb: you should probably use gcc to link with too.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, approved.
[10:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: thank you
[10:33] <daseeb> mithrandir: this means? how can I do that? 
[10:33] <seb128> doko: 
[10:33] <seb128> $ LC_ALL=de_DE.UTF-8 python -c "import locale; locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')"
[10:33] <seb128> Traceback (most recent call last):
[10:33] <seb128>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
[10:33] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/locale.py", line 476, in setlocale
[10:33] <seb128>     return _setlocale(category, locale)
[10:33] <seb128> locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
[10:33] <seb128> doko: ^ do you consider that a python bug?
[10:34] <hunger> I am seeing a message from python about there being no ScanPCI module during bootup. Is that a known problem?
[10:35] <daseeb> mithrandir: adding option "-lgcc"?
[10:35] <doko> seb128: hmm, I remember seeing that, will have a look today or tomorrow
[10:35] <Mithrandir> daseeb: as I said, talk to doko.
[10:35] <doko> daseeb: you should always link using the gcc driver
[10:35] <seb128> doko: ok, thank you, there is bugs on random python apps due to that
[10:39] <daseeb> doko: so what exactly is the gcc driver? I'm not so familiar with gcc, because I mostly use delphi/freepascal...
[10:40] <doko> daseeb: the binary `gcc'
[10:47] <daseeb> doko: can you give some more details? I should link with invoking gcc instead of ld? but I use freepascal for compilation. this produces some .a and .o files which get linked afterwards by the above commandline
[10:50] <doko> daseeb: so the pasted command line isn't complete, is it?
[10:52] <daseeb> doko: I do "/usr/bin/ppc386  -S2i -CX -OG1p2 -gl -Xs -vewnhi -Fi../../units/lnet-0.4.0/lib/sys/ -Fufmodintf/ " -Fu../../units/lnet-0.4.0/lib/ -Fu../../units/synapse/source/lib/ -Fu../../lazarus-svn/components/jpeg/lib/i386-linux/ -Fu../../lazarus-svn/lcl/units/i386-linux/ -Fu../../lazarus-svn/lcl/units/i386-linux/gtk2/ -Fu../../lazarus-svn/packager/units/i386-linux/ -Fu. -FU. -o../cactus_jukebox -sh -dLCL -dLCLgtk2 mp3proj.lpr". this
[10:52] <daseeb> does the compilation
[10:52] <daseeb> doko: and afterwards  "/usr/bin/ld -b elf32-i386 -m elf_i386  -dynamic-linker=/lib/ld-linux.so.2  -L. -o ../cactus_jukebox ../link.res"  does the linking
[10:53] <daseeb> doko: but without passing the option "-lgcc" to the linker it fails with "/usr/bin/../lib/libfmod.so: undefined reference to `__divdi3'"
[10:54] <dholbach> pitti: can you promote gnome-user-docs to main and demote gnome2-user-docs? (going to get gnome2-user-docs purged from the archive)
[10:54] <daseeb> doko: as far as I see, -lgcc should link with /lib/libgcc.so
[10:54] <pitti> dholbach: what's the principal difference?
[10:55] <doko> daseeb: yes and no; please locate the libgcc.so (locate libgcc.so) and use that one.
[10:55] <dholbach> pitti: gnome-user-docs is updated in debian (different maintainer), gnome2-user-docs isn't - same upstream source
[10:55] <doko> daseeb: how did you install this free-pascal?
[10:55] <pitti> dholbach: ubuntu-docs Depends: gnome2-user-guide
[10:55] <daseeb> doko: from .deb created by the freepascal team
[10:56] <dholbach> pitti: i'll change that too
[10:56] <pitti> dholbach: no other rdepends
[10:56] <pitti> dholbach: ok, if you fix that, I'll remove gnome2-user-docs right away and promote g-u-d, ok?
[10:57] <dholbach> pitti: no bug to file, no mir? great :-)
[10:57] <pitti> let's save ourselves the bureaucracy
[10:57] <dholbach> yoohoo :-)
[10:58] <pitti> dholbach: done
[10:59] <dholbach> pitti: thanks a lot!
[10:59] <pitti> no problem :)
[10:59] <doko> daseeb: then please file a bug report to this team that they should pass the appropriate -L option
[11:01] <daseeb> doko: libgcc.so doesn't exist here...:( perhaps my gcc is broken. what package contains libgcc.so?
[11:02] <dholbach> pitti: ubuntu-docs change uploaded
[11:03] <doko> daseeb: apt-get install dlocate; dlocate libgcc.so
[11:04] <cjwatson> err, dlocate only locates files on your system. use packages.ubuntu.com to find files not on your system
[11:04] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-power-manager too 
[11:04] <doko> cjwatson: yeah, but this package is installed; daseeb: anyway, look for libgcc_s.so
[11:06] <doko> daseeb: to automate that: gcc --print-file-name libgcc_s.so
[11:07] <daseeb> doko: 
[11:07] <daseeb> daseeb@daseeb-desktop:/$ gcc --print-file-name libgcc_s.so
[11:07] <daseeb> /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgcc_s.so
[11:07] <daseeb> doko: so this file exists... 
 daseeb: then please file a bug report to this team that they should pass the appropriate -L option
[11:08] <daseeb> doko: ok
[11:10] <daseeb> doko: and finally: should I link directly to libgcc_s.so or do some symlink to libgcc.so?
[11:11] <doko> daseeb: please ask the freepascal developers; I don't know anything of the freepascal internals
[11:11] <daseeb> doko: ok... thx so far
[11:16] <doko> mvo: does update-manager has some regexp expressions pickled?
[11:16] <mvo> doko: no, but gnome-app-install
[11:17] <doko> mvo: ok, there's a fix on the python 2.5 branch to correctly unpickle regexps pickled with 2.4; will prepare an upload today
[11:18] <mvo> doko: cool, thanks
[11:18] <mvo> doko: I tested the fix here, it works fine for me
[11:28] <Enola_Gay> hi all
[11:29] <Enola_Gay> Does it make sense to create a bug report according the link of screen saver with gnome power manager?
[11:29] <Enola_Gay> That the lowest time you could choose in power manger is screen saver start time + 1 minute.
[11:31] <Enola_Gay> Or is it just gnome philosphie?
[11:33] <poningru> Enola_Gay: file a bug report with feature request in gnome
[11:39] <Enola_Gay> poningru: Thanks.
[11:40] <Enola_Gay> poningru: On Launchpad or the original Gnome hp?
[11:40] <elianm> does importing to Rosetta work at the moment?
[11:40] <poningru> Enola_Gay: just file it on lp
[11:41] <Enola_Gay> k
[11:41] <elianm> I'm having troubles like this https://launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/76017
[11:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 76017 in rosetta "Broken X-Rosetta-Export-Date header" [Critical,Fix released]  
[11:42] <pitti> mvo: what's the current plan for bug 47044?
[11:42] <ubotu> Malone bug 47044 in apt "apt cant work with disable proxy" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47044
[11:42] <elianm> hehe, ubotu ? 
[11:43] <mvo> pitti: still in verification-needed state, I can't sru-verify this myself as I did the sru reuqest and upload to -proposed
[11:43] <mvo> pitti: bdmurray will have to sru-verify this (together with popcon in dapper and some other packages)
[11:43] <pitti> mvo: right, I mean, is it still appropriate for an SRU in the first place, after the concerns raised?
[11:44] <mvo> pitti: the concern from simon? I explained that in my comment (I hope :)
[11:46] <pitti> mvo: at least the SRU queue slowly gets smaller :)
[11:46] <mvo> pitti: most of the remaining items a either issued by me or HW dependant (I'm not quite sure how to verify those)
[11:53] <Enola_Gay> Another problem is that "Add/Remove..." under Applications uses dpkg insteaf of apt-get or aptitude.
[11:54] <Enola_Gay> Aptitude and apt-get since Edgy log the dependencies or manual installed applications so it is possible to remove unused dependencies.
[11:54] <Enola_Gay> This isn't possible with the standard gnome installer.
[11:54] <Enola_Gay> Bug or feature?
[11:59] <Enola_Gay> You could live with it but the system has more and more installations which aren't needed and which are very hard without much knowledge to remove. That's why I like Edgy so much and reinstalled my system. Of course you can use synaptic or console tools but who knows it?
[12:00] <dholbach> Enola_Gay: please file bug reports - add/remove uses synaptic which uses apt
[12:00] <mvo> Enola_Gay: " problem is that "Add/Remove..." under Applications uses dpkg insteaf " where did you got that information?
[12:02] <mvo> Enola_Gay: what dholbach said, its plain incorrect
[12:02] <Enola_Gay> dholbach: But after installing xchat with add/remove with two dependencies it was not possible to remove those both after removing xchat with apt-get autoremove.
[12:02] <mvo> Enola_Gay: under what release of ubuntu? if that is the case, this is a bug
[12:02] <Enola_Gay> mvo: From someone on ubuntu-de-Channel and I got the experience described above.
[12:02] <Enola_Gay> FEisty
[12:03] <Enola_Gay> Ok, I made some more tests.
[12:03] <Enola_Gay> *make
[12:03] <dholbach> Enola_Gay: you tried to remove xchat with apt-get autoremove?
[12:03] <mvo> Enola_Gay: the feisty version of g-a-i should even deal with that automatically. so if you remove xchat with g-a-i it should automatically remove the two deps it installed for it
[12:04] <surak> Simple question: where are gnome's keyboard layouts stored? I am intended to fix a bug on it...
[12:04] <ogra> dholbach, i found the bug with the vendor icon, you moved it from apps/ to places/ ... :)
[12:04] <Enola_Gay> mvo: So if I remove xchat with it the dependencies are automatically removed too?
[12:04] <dholbach> ogra: i didn't
[12:04] <ogra> dholbach, thanks for the dia ping :)
[12:04] <Enola_Gay> -with
[12:04] <mvo> Enola_Gay: if you do it in g-a-i yes. with apt/synaptic it will (by default) just tell you about them and let you decide
[12:04] <ogra> dholbach, well, its in the places subdir on all my systems on feisty
[12:04] <dholbach> ogra: we added tangerine icons for all sizes and maybe upstream changed something in gnome-icon-theme
[12:04] <ogra> while its in apps on edgy
[12:04] <ogra> ah, k
[12:05] <dholbach> ogra: you got the gpm ping too?
[12:05] <ogra> anyway, moving my icons over fixes it :)
[12:05] <dholbach> nice
[12:05] <ogra> i'm subscribed to the gpm list, got the release mail yesterday ;)
[12:05] <surak> I can fix the bug with xmodmap, however it's not clear to me how gnome sets up the keyboard. DHolbachy
[12:05] <dholbach> neat
[12:05] <surak> ?
[12:06] <dholbach> surak: hm?
[12:06] <surak> ops, dholbach - damn keyboard!
[12:06] <dholbach> ok :)
[12:06] <dholbach> i wondered if I missed something
[12:06] <surak> it's bug #68357
[12:06] <ubotu> Malone bug 68357 in xserver-xorg-input-keyboard "Spanish layout misses ~ combinations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68357
[12:07] <Enola_Gay> mvo: Sorry, that would account why apt-get autoremove shows no unused dependencies afterwards.
[12:07] <surak> it's surely posted against the wrong package.
[12:07] <mvo> Enola_Gay: no problem
[12:08] <Enola_Gay> Yeah, works fine. It doesn't remove all dependencies but they are still removable with apt-get autoremove. Great.
[12:09] <mvo> Enola_Gay: g-a-i will only autoremove dependencies of the removed pkg on removal. not all no-longer-required dependencies
[12:09] <Enola_Gay> mvo: yes, it makes :)
[12:10] <Enola_Gay> mvo: It seems to remove the direct dependencies but not the indirect ones I guess.
[12:10] <mvo> Enola_Gay: what was your testcase? install xchat and remove it again all from within g-a-i? did it leave any deps for autoremoval in that case that werent present before?
[12:11] <Enola_Gay> mvo, that works completly fine. It removes all dependencies.
[12:11] <Enola_Gay> But I am checking it with kvpnc.
[12:12] <mvo> Enola_Gay: great :) make sure that #ubuntu-de knows about this too so that we do not have false rumors :)
[12:12] <Enola_Gay> Yeah, I have posted it
[12:12] <mvo> thanks!
[12:12] <Enola_Gay> yeah, I am right
[12:13] <Enola_Gay> If you install kvpcn it has a bunch of dependencies. After removing it uninstalls kdelibs and menu but not arts and Co so I think kvpnc depends on kdelibs but kdelibs on arts so g-a-i removes only direct dependencies.
[12:13] <Enola_Gay> Which is fine imho since it could be remove with apt-get autoremove
[12:13] <Enola_Gay> the indirect ones
[12:14] <mvo> Enola_Gay: nice catch. could you please file a bug about this? jus tso that its not forgotten?
[12:14] <Riddell> Mithrandir: did you have an opinion on k3b 1.0 UVF exception?
[12:15] <Enola_Gay> mvo: Ok, I make it. What is the name of this package?
[12:15] <mvo> Enola_Gay: please file against "gnome-app-install"
[12:15] <Enola_Gay> k
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Riddell: hm, sorry, I haven't gotten to it.  I'll do so.
[12:15] <Enola_Gay> Thanks.
[12:16] <mvo> thank you!
[12:17] <pitti> urgh, so many duplicates in the SoC applications
[12:25] <evand> pitti: Why is that a bad thing?  Wouldn't you want multiple applications for the same task, that way you can choose which candidate you think will do the best job?
[12:26] <pitti> evand: I just replied to the ubuntu-soc list about  that
[12:26] <pitti> evand: best thing might be collaboration, if the rules allow that
[12:26] <pitti> Free software is all about collaboration, after all :)
[12:26] <evand> ah, indeed
[12:33] <carlos> pitti: now that the beta has been released, will you do a lang pack update *now* before the final one ?
[12:33] <Enola_Gay> mvo: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/96410
[12:33] <pitti> carlos: not sure, do you think it would be a good idea?
[12:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 96410 in gnome-app-install "gnome-app-install removes only direct dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:33] <pitti> seb128: ^ see carlos' question
[12:33] <carlos> pitti: yeah, I fixed many templates and still approving some new ones
[12:33] <carlos> so we get some more testing on it
[12:33] <Enola_Gay> Which package consists Gnome power manager?
[12:34] <seb128> pitti: what? language pack updates? sure, translators only started to work on feisty since it was not open before ...
[12:34] <cjwatson> Enola_Gay: gnome-power-manager
[12:34] <Enola_Gay> cjwatson: thanks :)
[12:34] <pitti> carlos: I can use the current daily ones from yesterday afternoon's rosetta tarballs; is that a good one, or shall I wait a bit more?
[12:34] <carlos> pitti: also, I wrote a script to fix the new line char and 'dot representing space' that should fix those translations
[12:35] <pitti> cool
[12:35] <carlos> pitti: wait until tomorrow
[12:35] <carlos> I will execute my script to fix the data
[12:35] <carlos> and do a new export
[12:35] <pitti> carlos: so, wait for tomorrow afternoon's rosetta tarballs? or today's?
[12:35] <mvo> Enola_Gay: thanks
[12:35] <carlos> pitti: tomorrow afternoon
[12:36] <pitti> carlos: alright
[12:36] <carlos> pitti: I will ping you, just wanted to know your plans
[12:36] <carlos> so I can schedule next steps
[12:36] <Enola_Gay> mvo: You're welcome! :)
[12:37] <ogra> Mithrandir, so whats the magic i need to make MN not touch my interface ? is there a gconf key i can set or something ?
[12:37] <ogra> *NM
[12:38] <ogra> else i'll need to drop it from edubuntu,m since it always hogs the server interface of ltsp
[12:38] <ogra> i looked at the spec but there is no trace of how to disable NM management...
[12:39] <gnomefreak> pitti: are you in charge of auto retrace bot project? (charge for lack of better word)
[12:39] <pitti> gnomefreak: yes, I am
[12:40] <gnomefreak> pitti: it seems to be auto tagging already retraced crash reports
[12:40] <pitti> gnomefreak: that was me
[12:40] <gnomefreak> oh ok
[12:40] <pitti> gnomefreak: I re-tagged failed crash reports from the weekend after fixing the chroots
[12:40] <Mithrandir> ogra: temporarily, you can add a mapping stanza.  I'm going to add something to interfaces(5) that you can use to tell NM to not touch it.
[12:41] <gnomefreak> ok cause a few we ended up retracing i guess and getting decent feedback from apport. hjmf is seeing this. 
[12:41] <ogra> cool, i was fearing i had to tear it out
[12:41] <StevenK> I thought NM shouldn't touch it if the interface appears in interfaces(5)...
[12:41] <ogra> i can wiat until that stanza is read ...
[12:41] <ogra> *wait
[12:42] <pitti> gnomefreak: it's possible that this created some unnecessary bug spam, but checking all of the 86 failed bugs manually was too much effort
[12:42] <ogra> i think interfaces altready has a hotplug flag, just add nohotplug :)
[12:42] <gnomefreak> i understand i just didnt know if it was a bug or if it was meant to be done
[12:45] <StevenK> Hrm. It appears in the PCI ID list for ata_piix.
[12:59] <LeeJunFan> I've got what appears to be a pretty serious bug in genisoimage, I thought was growisofs at first, but genisoimage isn't selectable in the package list, and I want to make sure it get's noticed by the right maintainer. Bug #96096
[12:59] <ubotu> Malone bug 96096 in dvd+rw-tools "Unable to burn good DVD+R" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96096
[12:59] <cjwatson> LeeJunFan: genisoimage is from the source package cdrkit
[01:00] <Enola_Gay> poningru: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/96419
[01:00] <ubotu> Malone bug 96419 in gnome-power-manager "it isn't possible to choose sleep times lower then the screen saver one" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:01] <LeeJunFan> cjwatson: I looked for that too. I'll try again.
[01:02] <kwwii> dholbach: ping?
[01:02] <dholbach> kwwii: pong
[01:03] <LeeJunFan> cjwatson: nope, if I'm going the right way about this - trying to attach to an upstream product - cdrkit isn't there either.
[01:03] <kwwii> dholbach: I'm updating the gdm theme gtkrc file (as well as the list theme gtkrc) to fix a problem with the icons no showing
[01:03] <dholbach> kwwii: alrighty
[01:03] <dholbach> kwwii: let me know once you have it done
[01:03] <kwwii> dholbach: I'll let you know when it is pushed
[01:03] <kwwii> ;-)
[01:05] <cjwatson> LeeJunFan: no
[01:05] <cjwatson> LeeJunFan: click on "dvd+rw-tools (Ubuntu)" and change the source package from dvd+rw-tools to cdrkit
[01:06] <LeeJunFan> cjwatson: thanks.
[01:06] <cjwatson> LeeJunFan: if you wanted to use the "Also affects" thing (although it doesn't sound appropriate if you don't believe the bug is in growisofs), you'd use "Also affects: Distribution", and select Ubuntu as the distribution and cdrkit as the source package
[01:06] <LeeJunFan> cjwatson: no, the proper thing at this point is to reassign it totally.
[01:06] <poningru> justdave's first law: all bug handling software must be convoluted enough to not accept bug reports from end user
[01:06] <cjwatson> LeeJunFan: right
[01:09] <Enola_Gay> Thanks for support, cu all.
[01:12] <anti_pop> this might the wrong channel to ask, but is it possible that nvidias 9631 driver will not work with the latest 2.6.20-13 kernel ?
[01:16] <asac> mpt: pong
[01:19] <PriceChild> I noticed that nvidia-glx was updated to 9755... any chance of a "new-legacy" with 9631?
[01:20] <asac> keescook: ping
[01:21] <mpt> asac, I'm here
[01:22] <asac> hi
[01:22] <asac> about the bug workflow ... i don't think that there is one fits all :)
[01:23] <pitti> does anyone know how to use grep to find NUL bytes in files? grep '\000' and variations doesn't work
[01:23] <mpt> If there isn't, that's a problem for this whole "Launchpad" idea
[01:24] <mpt> asac, so we need some uniform well-understood statuses that allow collaboration between everyone, and tags for everything else, probably
[01:24] <asac> hmm
[01:24] <mpt> "Needs Info" isn't "Needs Info From the Reporter" only because that was too long to fit :-)
[01:24] <mpt> though to be more precise it's "Needs Info From the Reporter or Someone Else Who Can Reproduce the Problem"
[01:25] <asac> yeah ... exactly ... it means "Needs Info" :)
[01:25] <cjwatson> mpt: (ugh)
[01:25] <lifeless> pitti: '[\0] ' ?
[01:25] <asac> i mean as long as there is info missing ... e.g. we have no testcase ... its needs info
[01:26] <pitti> lifeless: no :(
[01:26] <asac> i think it would be wrong to say this only means "by reporter"
[01:26] <cjwatson> mpt: my biggest source of confusion is info from people who thought they could reproduce the problem but actually can reproduce some totally different problem
[01:26] <mpt> asac, sure, missing testcase is something that only skill will prevent the reporter from providing
[01:26] <_ion> Yay, the new l-r-m + nvidia-glx dropped support for my nVidia card. Yeah, nvidia-glx-legacy does support my card, but the previous non-legacy driver supported running compiz/beryl with it.
[01:27] <mpt> cjwatson, that problem seems orthogonal to bug statuses, isn't it?
[01:27] <mpt> Oh, I suppose it would be lessened if the status was "Needs Reporter Info"
[01:27] <mpt> hmmm
[01:27] <mpt> interesting
[01:28] <cjwatson> mpt: it would certainly be made worse if the status were explicitly "... or Someone Else Who Can Reproduce the Problem". :-)
[01:28] <asac> if the status was "Needs Reporter Info", then we would lack a general "Needs Info" state 
[01:28] <mpt> fair enough
[01:28] <mpt> asac, we have that, it's called "Unconfirmed" :-)
[01:28] <mpt> ok, that was too flip
[01:28] <lifeless> pitti: egrep maybe?
[01:28] <mpt> asac, what other kinds of info are you thinking of?
[01:29] <pitti> lifeless: already tried that as well
[01:29] <lifeless> pitti: python
[01:29] <pitti> lifeless: right, I already gave up on grep, too
[01:30] <asac> mpt: e.g. a properly traced stacktrace in case of crashers.
[01:31] <mpt> asac, how is a stacktrace not something the reporter should provide? (keeping in mind Colin's problem that you don't want other people attaching stacktraces for similar-but-unrelated bugs)
[01:31] <asac> mpt: its usually too much skill required by reporters ... we now have coredumps attached which team members or triagers can retrace
[01:32] <Treenaks> or robots ;)
[01:33] <asac> mpt: anyway, i don't think we have a problem here as this discussion started with single/maybe special case.
[01:33] <doko> pitti: on amd64, a new memory stick apparently is detected as iPod, and rhythmbox is started.
[01:33] <cjwatson> mpt: I think asac means retracing of apport-provided coredumps to add full symbols
[01:33] <cjwatson> which is a "more information required" state in some sense
[01:33] <mpt> asac, well, it's interesting, because it's one example of a kind of issue that needs to go through a process involving different people/teams
[01:34] <mpt> In this case it's reporter -> retracing team -> developers
[01:34] <mpt> in others it might be reporter -> developers -> QA
[01:34] <asac> do you have bug number again?
[01:34] <mpt> or reporter -> triager -> UI designer -> developer
[01:35] <pitti> doko: oh, are there any files on it?
[01:36] <doko> pitti: no mp3 and such stuff, even after formatting, rhytmbox is started
[01:36] <pitti> doko: if not, the vendor/product ID might be weird; ls -l /media/stick and lspci/lspci -n output appreciated in a bug report 
[01:36] <StevenK> Surely the USB vendor/device ID is also helpful?
[01:37] <mpt> asac, bug 94322
[01:37] <ubotu> Malone bug 94322 in firefox "Don't show warnings for non-dangerous HTTPS situations" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94322
[01:38] <asac> yeah right.
[01:40] <mpt> In future (I hope) your Launchpad page will have a list of the bugs you reported that are Needs Info, so you can deal with them
[01:40] <mpt> and that would break if it was being used for other things.
[01:42] <asac> what state is "needs decision on how to go on"?
[01:47] <doko> lol: Bug #96002: Gnome Volume Manager don't work and the sound is very loud
[01:47] <ubotu> Malone bug 96002 in gnome-volume-manager "Gnome Volume Manager don't work and the sound is very loud" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96002
[02:08] <kwwii>  dholbach: commiting now
[02:40] <Lure> pitti: just a small "after beta" reminder about digikamimageplugins MIR ;-)
[02:41] <cjwatson> heno: bug 96126: bit early yet to say "no time for Feisty" for minor UI tweaks to the new partitioner
[02:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 96126 in ubiquity "used space in partition column should be visible in manual partitioner" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96126
[02:42] <heno> cjwatson: is that a minor UI tweak, ok I though it was more invasive than that
[02:42] <heno> cjwatson: thanks for correcting
[02:45] <cjwatson> I think we've got the information already
[02:46] <Mithrandir> hm, I wonder if we could have a way of taking packages out of a release, a bit like debian's testing, to avoid shipping RC-buggy packages.
[02:46] <hunger> Any chance of the error messages that show up during bootup vanishing before the final release?
[02:46] <hunger> s/error/error and annoying warning/
[02:46] <heno> cjwatson: I get it now, you are talking about just placing a number in a table, not the graphical representation that gparted had
[02:48] <AlinuxOS> BenC_, hello
[02:48] <BenC_> AlinuxOS: hello
[02:48] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[02:49] <pitti> hey BenC 
[02:49] <BenC> pitti: hey
[02:49] <DarkSun88> Any main sponsor here?
[02:50] <pitti> Lure: noted :)
[02:50] <DarkSun88> Could you so kind to check this bug?  and without a freeze exception from <god of release maintainer> there are no syncs in main
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> BenC_, do you remmember I've promissed you screenshot of my cat /proc/kmsg | grep ide
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> finally I got it.
[02:50] <DarkSun88> Ops: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpaint/+bug/95944
[02:50] <ubotu> Malone bug 95944 in gpaint "Please sync gpaint 0.3.0pre5-4 (main) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[02:50] <DarkSun88> This
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> long life to pitti ;)
[02:50] <BenC> AlinuxOS: I already fixed the problem :)
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> BenC, ah
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> :D
[02:50] <BenC> AlinuxOS: the fix is in the 2.6.20-13 kernel
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> Found kernel: /vmlinuz-2.6.20-13-generic
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> Found kernel: /vmlinuz-2.6.20-12-generic
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> Found kernel: /vmlinuz-2.6.20-11-generic
[02:50] <AlinuxOS> ah
[02:51] <AlinuxOS> ok
[02:51] <AlinuxOS> I'll try it.
[02:51] <AlinuxOS> and tell you..what going here by me.
[02:51] <pitti> AlinuxOS: live long and prosper
[02:52] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ;) 
[02:52] <cjwatson> heno: oh, right, yes
[03:07] <dholbach> kwwii: ok looking
[03:07] <reitblatt> could I bother someone to take a peak at this spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/seamless-windows-virtualization
[03:07] <kwwii> dholbach: I also just commited a session splash change
[03:07] <reitblatt> would make a great SoC project for someone I imagine
[03:07] <dholbach> kwwii: alrighty
[03:09] <heno> reitblatt: why does it link to a help.u.c page and not the wiki
[03:09] <reitblatt> oops
[03:09] <heno> reitblatt: I was just looking at the wiki page btw, interesting
[03:09] <reitblatt> should link here
[03:09] <reitblatt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeamlessWindowsVirtualization
[03:10] <reitblatt> idea came from the help page
[03:10] <reitblatt> so I linked it at first
[03:10] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:15] <reitblatt> heno: thanks
[03:15] <dholbach> kwwii: HumanList/icon-session.png is missing
[03:15] <kwwii> dholbach: ouch, guess I missed that...I'll put it back in ;-)
[03:16] <dholbach> kwwii: Human looks good
[03:16] <kwwii> dholbach: oops, I removed all the icons :-(
[03:18] <dholbach> kwwii: session splash uploaded
[03:19] <kwwii> dholbach: great, thanks...I'll replace the icons in the list theme
[03:19] <dholbach> kwwii: ok
[03:22] <AlinuxOS> cjwatson, hello, debian-installer has new strings, I though that there was string freeze.
[03:27] <birgstef> u make a mistake? when u upped the follow file? http://de.releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/ubuntu-7.04-beta-desktop-i386.iso ... u get DAPPER instead feisty!
[03:31] <kwwii> dholbach: committing next gdm now
[03:31] <dholbach> kwwii: alrighty
[03:31] <kwwii> dholbach: thanks again man
[03:31] <birgstef> dholbach?
[03:31] <dholbach> birgstef: ?
[03:31] <dholbach> kwwii: de rien
[03:31] <birgstef> deu?
[03:32] <dholbach> birgstef: can you elaborate?
[03:32] <birgstef> are u german?
[03:33] <dholbach> Yes
[03:33] <birgstef> fein, ihr habt nen dicken Fehler -.- auf der http://de.releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/ubuntu-7.04-beta-desktop-i386.iso 
[03:33] <birgstef> da steckt dapper hinter, nicht feisty -.-
[03:35] <dholbach> birgstef: http://de.releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/ does not load for me - if it really says dapper, somebody needs to notify the admins of the german mirror
[03:35] <birgstef> where can i find the admins?
[03:36] <dholbach> birgstef: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors is all I know
[03:36] <Znarl> birgstef : I will contact the admin about this issue.
[03:36] <dholbach> Znarl: ah great
[03:36] <dholbach> birgstef: thanks
[03:36] <birgstef> ty Znarl
[03:37] <maswan> Znarl: btw, I'm downloading the iso now to chekc
[03:37] <birgstef> the checksum is: b48f708dd3680b337fb8edb54c5cda31
[03:37] <maswan> It's a really slow mirror though
[03:37] <dholbach> birgstef: hum, it loaded fine now but doesn't say 'dapper' for me
[03:37] <birgstef> well, i burn the iso on cd, open the "dists" folder, there is "dapper, stable, unstable"
[03:38] <birgstef> ive installed it, and have now dapper 6.06 on my system
[03:38] <birgstef> ?!?
[03:43] <shawarma> seb128: Why do we run scrollkeeper-rebuilddb each month? The man page even says it's not necessary unless the db has been corrupted somehow..
[03:44] <seb128> shawarma: no idea, that's coming from Debian
[03:45] <shawarma> seb128: Hmm... It's just annoying to have it run every month if it's not really necessary. It's quite CPU heavy.
[03:46] <shawarma> seb128: => makes the cooler in my girlfriend's laptop *really* noisy => I can't get any work done. :-)
[03:47] <seb128> shawarma: nobody else complained about it yet
[03:47] <seb128> and it should not be that slow
[03:47] <seb128> take like 3-4min
[03:47] <shawarma> seb128: Hm... I'm almost sure it was like 10 minutes of infernal noise. :-)
[03:48] <shawarma> seb128: I'll file a bug.
[03:49] <seb128> shawarma: yeah, one of those hundred of bugs we get a week and can't deal with ;)
[03:49] <seb128> shawarma: I don't think anybody is subscribed to that package and the bug is likely to stay there
[03:50] <dholbach> make it a 'ubuntulove' task :)
[03:50] <seb128> dholbach: it's not ubuntulove
[03:50] <Mithrandir> mvo: so, we just had a user who upgraded and where his chipset support moved from nvidia-glx to -legacy.  Is this something you think update-manager a) could handle, b) should handle?
[03:50] <seb128> dholbach: it's "need decision from somebody who knows what he's doing"
[03:50] <shawarma> seb128: *G* I'll assign it to myself. I'll see if I can figure out why it was put there in the first place.
[03:51] <seb128> shawarma: that will just make bug noise but feel free if you really want
[03:51] <seb128> shawarma: it would better be discussed on a mailing list
[03:51] <seb128> dholbach: thank you ;)
[03:51] <dholbach> :)
[03:52] <shawarma> seb128: I'm just quite busy these days so it's easier to remember it that way for me.
[03:52] <seb128> shawarma: ok
[03:52] <welshbyte> could i request a rebuild of gurlchecker to fix an unmetdep? (Bug #96381 )
[03:52] <ubotu> Malone bug 96381 in gurlchecker "[UNMETDEPS]  gurlchecker has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96381
[03:52] <Hobbsee> shawarma: did you get back to dabien?
[03:52] <seb128> welshbyte: no
[03:52] <seb128> welshbyte: there is "rebuild", you need an upload
[03:52] <shawarma> Hobbsee: No, I haven't seen him online since then.
[03:52] <Hobbsee> shawarma: ahh.   wrong times then, he's been around
[03:53] <welshbyte> seb128, but it doesn't need to be changes, the shlibs:Depends should make it depend on the correct library
[03:53] <welshbyte> s/changes/changed/
[03:54] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Hmm... I'll probably run into him at some point.
[03:54] <seb128> welshbyte: there is already binaries for that version, it needs a new upload to have new binaries
[03:54] <seb128> welshbyte: only updating the changelog with a "rebuild for soname change" entry is enough
[03:54] <welshbyte> i see.. so, just bump the version
[03:54] <welshbyte> ?
[03:54] <StevenK> welshbyte: I'll do it, if you like.
[03:55] <welshbyte> StevenK, if it's no trouble :) i'd only be able to do a debdiff anyway
[03:56] <mvo> Mithrandir: it certainly could handle it, but I I'm not sure if it should do that. it should be the exception to do fixes in the release-upgrader. if it could be handled on a packaging level somehow, that would be better IMHO. but I guess this case is hard
[03:57] <Mithrandir> mvo: packages can't (currently) depend on hardware features, so that bit is hard.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'm a bit worried about leaving users with a black screen saying "Login:" after an upgrade.
[03:57] <mvo> Mithrandir: do we have a bugnumber for this (the nvidia, nvidia-glx thing)
[03:58] <mvo> Mithrandir: make that nvidia, nvidia-legacy. 
[03:58] <Mithrandir> mvo: no, it was discussed on a private channel.
[03:58] <mvo> Mithrandir: ok, if the user could file a bug, that would be appreciated
[03:58] <Mithrandir> mvo: sure
[03:58] <mvo> Mithrandir: I will put it into the release notes as well 
[03:58] <asac> hmmm firefox build did not find latest libthai0 while it found latest libthai-dev on most architectures ... where do buildd get their packages from?
[03:59] <StevenK> The archive?
[03:59] <StevenK> Most helpful answer ever.
[03:59] <asac> lol
[03:59] <Mithrandir> mvo: thanks.
[04:00] <Mithrandir> asac: if the -dev package depends on an exact version, this often happens.
[04:00] <asac> in de.archives.ubuntu.com i have Filename: pool/main/libt/libthai/libthai0_0.1.8-2_amd64.deb ... however buildd says its not there
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya
[04:01] <asac> Mithrandir: is this a bug? or just takes more time?
[04:01] <Mithrandir> asac: the usual fix is "ask Tollef or another buildd admin to give back the failed packages", so I'll do that now
[04:02] <asac> :)
[04:02] <asac> Mithrandir: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/2.0.0.3+1-0ubuntu1 ... though I doubt this info helps you.
[04:02] <asac> thanks a lot
[04:03] <Mithrandir> asac: given-back
[04:04] <asac> Mithrandir: just curious, what does "given-back" mean?
[04:05] <Mithrandir> asac: it means I told the buildd to retry the build.
[04:05] <asac> ah :) ... hope not many rounds of these are needed.
[04:06] <dholbach> kwwii: uploaded
[04:07] <dholbach> kwwii: and I changed the version number to not be ...ubuntu1
[04:07] <dholbach> kwwii: apart from that it' seems all good 
[04:07] <asac> Mithrandir: again it failed
[04:07] <pochu> heno: ping? #ubuntu-iso please :)
[04:08] <asac> Mithrandir: maybe i just fail to see the obvious ... hmmm :/
[04:08] <Mithrandir> asac: I'll take a look
[04:12] <heno> pochu: sure
[04:17] <Mithrandir> asac: ah, I see what happened; it'll be fixed in about an hour and a half and firefox can then be given back.
[04:18] <asac> Mithrandir: any info for the noisy mob?
[04:19] <asac> s/noisy/nosy/
[04:19] <Mithrandir> asac: (the problem being that libthai0 depended on libthai-data, but libthai-data is arch: all, so it ended up in NEW with the i386 build.  This caused libthai0 to be uninstallable on all arches but i386.)
[04:20] <asac> oh wierd ... i tried to install here on amd64 ... guess i missed the libthai-data part then
[04:21] <asac> anyway thanks
[04:26] <thekorn> pitti: I attached a patch to bug 95223, didn't know that you are assigned to that bug,
[04:26] <ubotu> Malone bug 95223 in bughelper "Apport retracing service munging chars in bug summary" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95223
[04:26] <pitti> thekorn: oh, thanks
[04:27] <pitti> thekorn: oh, sanitize_html() *un*quotes?:
[04:28] <thekorn> pitti: it changes &lt; into < and i think thats what you are looking for ?!
[04:28] <pitti> thekorn: right
[04:29] <thekorn> pitti: ok, i will merge it into main and the release branch
[04:30] <dholbach> thekorn: i'll roll it into a package later
[04:31] <thekorn> dholbach: thanks a lot!
[04:31] <dholbach> np
[04:31] <bddebian> dholbach: Since you acked gcc-h8300-hms, do you have a suggestion about brickos?  I can't get a clean build log of it without the newer gcc-h8300-hms?
[04:32] <dholbach> bddebian: sorry, not at all
[04:32] <bddebian> Bah :-)
[04:41] <slomo> can someone please give-back seahorse on ppc?
[05:46] <asac> Mithrandir: maybe ffox can get a new chance by now?
[05:50] <iwj> seb128: (if you see this) Care to comment on bug 94166 ?
[05:50] <ubotu> Malone bug 94166 in firefox "Get Help Online appears to do nothing if firefox minimised" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94166
[05:50] <seb128> iwj: the "drop the menu item"?
[06:05] <keescook> asac: pong, still no archive admins around.  :(
[06:05] <pitti> hi keescook 
[06:06] <keescook> hiya pitti
[06:08] <seb128> hey keescook
[06:08] <keescook> hiya seb128!
[06:08] <seb128> keescook: archive admin or buildd admin?
[06:09] <keescook> seb128: I'm unclear on the distinction, but it sounds like cjwatson's got it covered.
[06:09] <seb128> ok
[06:17] <ogra> dholbach, your command listed on bug 96340 disagrees with the bug content :)
[06:17] <ubotu> Malone bug 96340 in squeak-vm "[UNMETDEPS]  squeak-vm has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96340
[06:17] <Mithrandir> asac: yeah; given-back.
[06:18] <dholbach> ogra: on amd64?
[06:19] <seb128> iwj: added a comment, we will likely mask that menu item for feisty anyway
[06:19] <ogra> dholbach, there is no amd64 version odf squeak afaik
[06:19] <ogra> might be that LaserJock didnt comment oiut that arch
[06:19] <dholbach> ogra: no, it's Arch: any
[06:20] <ogra> yeah, but since the content of the package are binary blobs ...
[06:20] <dholbach> it ftbfs on all other archs: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm/3.7.7-5ubuntu6
[06:20] <iwj> seb128: Right, thanks.
[06:21] <seb128> np
[06:21] <dholbach> ogra: ^
[06:21] <ogra> dholbach, edgy and dapper ?
[06:22] <dholbach> feisty
[06:22] <Animortis> Hi, I had a question - Are there plans to patch the security holes in OpenOffice.org as posted last week?
[06:22] <ogra> either i'm totally blind or in the left protlet is no feisty at all
[06:22] <keescook> Animortis: yup, they're in the publication process now.  The libwpd one has already been fixed.
[06:23] <ogra> i see it ftbfs in edgy and dapper
[06:23] <dholbach> ogra: does it build for you on amd64 today?
[06:23] <Animortis> Good, I'm glad. I know how Ubuntu feels about patching certain packages, but I couldn't see why not since Ubuntu keeps so in line with the Debian repos and those did it...
[06:23] <Animortis> Thanks.
[06:24] <ogra> dholbach, no idea, as i said, there is no amd64 executable for the vm 
[06:24] <dholbach> ogra: then set Architecture to i386
[06:24] <ogra> and i have it not in the broken deps list for i386
[06:24] <ogra> i'd klike to hear from LaserJock about it, he packaged it like that iirv
[06:24] <ogra> *iirc
[06:24] <ogra> probably an amd64 port was announced or something 
[06:25] <dholbach> i followed up in the bug report
[06:25] <ogra> i just dont see it in the list and the bug doesnt talk about any sepcific arch
[06:25] <ogra> *septic arch ? 
[06:26] <dholbach> ogra: i added that information now
[06:26] <ogra> oki
[06:26] <dholbach> ogra: the command was run on an amd64
[06:26] <ogra> yeah, i got that now :) 
[06:27] <dholbach> you were complaining some seconds ago that the bug doesn't talk about any specific arch :)
[06:27] <ogra> yeah, and you fixed it ... as well as i undersrtood it from our conversation ;)
[06:28] <dholbach> ok
[07:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxklavier/+bug/96561
[07:01] <ubotu> Malone bug 96561 in libxklavier "UVF exception 3.1 to 3.2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[07:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: approved
[07:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: thank you
[07:08] <iwj> Dammit, I want to lose this race!
[07:09] <Mithrandir> switch camels with the other guy?
[07:09] <iwj> Good idea.  Now all I need is that camel.
[07:11] <jdong> BenC: what's the justification for nvidia-9755??
[07:12] <jdong> now all the GeForce4 users are left without 9xxx-series nvidia.
[07:12] <mjg59> Go nvidia.
[07:14] <jdong> I just don't think it's the right decision for a major class of devices to lose support, past beta.
[07:15] <PriceChild> Where was the decision made?
[07:15] <mjg59> jdong: The alternative is to ship drivers without any security support
[07:16] <unimatrix9> hello there....
[07:16] <unimatrix9> any one home?
[07:16] <jdong> mjg59: can we get a nvidia-new-legacy package then for tne intermediate cards?
[07:16] <mjg59> jdong: That depends on whether nvidia are planning on doing security support on them or not
[07:16] <jdong> mjg59: they are showing as legacy drivers, just like the 7184's
[07:16] <jdong> so I'm assuming they'll do the same with them.
[07:17] <mjg59> Also, the kernel team have expressed a lack of interest in supporting three sets of nvidia drivers
[07:17] <jdong> that's really unfortunate.
[07:17] <mjg59> Yes, being in a position where a driver vendor can screw you repeatedly /is/ unfortunate.
[07:18] <PriceChild> The driver vendor isn't screwing us...?
[07:18] <jdong> but we are in a position where we can ship some level of driver support.
[07:18] <mjg59> By increasing the support load on an already overworked team
[07:18] <jdong> it's the kernel developers who don't want the extra work who are screwing us.
[07:19] <jdong> then don't upgrade nvidia-glx to 9755...
[07:19] <mjg59> Not possible.
[07:19] <mjg59> No guarantee of provision of security support for the hardware supported in them.
[07:20] <jdong> then drop 7184 legacy and replace it with 9655
[07:20] <mjg59> Screws anyone who has a card that's supported by 7184 but not the last release of the previous legacy ones
[07:20] <unimatrix9> any developers of feisty fawn beta 1 around?
[07:20] <mjg59> It's not like your card stops working. You just get to drop back to 7184 yourself.
[07:21] <jdong> yes but you lose 3D effects support.
[07:21] <jdong> on 20+ cards that are more than capable of 3D effects.
[07:21] <PriceChild> mjg59, http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-9755/README/appendix-a.html
[07:22] <mjg59> PriceChild: ?
[07:22] <jdong> "Below are the legacy GPUs that are no longer supported in the unified driver. These GPUs will continue to be maintained through the special legacy NVIDIA GPU driver releases."
[07:22] <PriceChild> mjg59, that says that the 9631 supported cards will "continue to be maintained through the special legacy NVIDIA GPU driver releases."
[07:22] <jdong> it sounds like nvidia plans to continue legacy release cycles for them.
[07:22] <Amaranth> err
[07:22] <Amaranth> does it say 9631?
[07:22] <PriceChild> Amaranth, read it ;)
[07:22] <jdong> Amaranth: read it.
[07:22] <mjg59> PriceChild: Yes. Please read the conversation.
[07:22] <PriceChild> Amaranth, its above the 71** and 96** section
[07:22] <cjwatson> unimatrix9: this is the developer channel, yes
[07:22] <jdong> Amaranth: there's 96xx and 71xx sections in legacy releases.
[07:22] <PriceChild> mjg59, what have I not read?
[07:23] <mjg59> 18:17 < mjg59> Also, the kernel team have expressed a lack of interest in  supporting three sets of nvidia drivers
[07:23] <jdong> umm...
[07:23] <PriceChild> mjg59, I've a lack of interest in arguing this with you... but i'm doing it as its the right thing to do in my opinion.
[07:23] <unimatrix9> i would like to say , you all have done an great job, i took an sneak preview of feisty fawn beta 1 , and its very very polished, i would just like to say it to you, really nice, keep up the good work!
[07:23] <Amaranth> and all those card work with the 71xx driver, don't they?
[07:24] <jdong> Amaranth: yes, but without composite or desktop effect support.
[07:24] <unimatrix9> its the little things that matter, and i can see you care!
[07:24] <PriceChild> Amaranth, I don't know... juging by the 8800 not working with lower than 9755 drivers, I'd assume there are cards that don't
[07:24] <mjg59> PriceChild: The right thing to do is to ensure that the kernel team are able to support packages we ship in a timely manner
[07:25] <cjwatson> unimatrix9: thanks for the comments; they are appreciated :-)
[07:25] <Amaranth> PriceChild: i'm pretty sure the geforce 4 cards were done by the time they moved to 8xxx
[07:25] <unimatrix9> most people come here to report bugs, i only come to say that its awsome!
[07:25] <PriceChild> Amaranth, yeah I'm just looking at the notes to see :) I'm probably wrong :P
[07:26] <jdong> it seems like time to start 3rd party repos again.
[07:29] <Amaranth> jdong: It's your right to do so. Just remember that it's up to you to support it, we won't help users that have problems with it.
[07:29] <jdong> Amaranth: yes, I'm fully aware of that.
[07:30] <jdong> it would be better if something a bit less ad-hoc can be arranged.
[07:30] <Amaranth> btw, card support with 96xx is funner than you think
[07:30] <jdong> but given the globular nature of l-r-m it's gonna be nasty.
[07:31] <Amaranth> iirc about half the cards they dropped support for in 97xx were actually subtly broken in 9631 and 9629 so you'd actually have to provide the 9626 beta driver
[07:33] <mjg59> Remember, kids, It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help.
[07:33] <PriceChild> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-7667.html
[07:34] <PriceChild> adds support for the 7800
[07:34] <mjg59> PriceChild: 7800 is still supported in the latest 9000 series
[07:35] <Amaranth> mjg59: Yep, that's why those nouveau guys are going nowhere. :)
[07:35] <mjg59> So what version it was introduced in is entirely unimportant
[07:43] <lemsx1> cjwatson: ping
[07:43] <cjwatson> lemsx1: yes?
[07:43] <lemsx1> cjwatson: remember that ssh problem?
[07:44] <lemsx1> cjwatson: I added GSSAPIAuthentication no to my ~/.ssh/config file for all hosts and now it works as it should
[07:44] <cjwatson> right, it would
[07:44] <lemsx1> cjwatson: that at least trims down the possibilities to KRB5 for real
[07:44] <cjwatson> not really
[07:44] <cjwatson> I think it's avahi/mdns
[07:45] <lemsx1> cjwatson: you think? so if i turn off avahi it should not give me that problem?
[07:45] <cjwatson> I don't want to suggest workarounds
[07:45] <lemsx1> cjwatson: i know. i just want to know exactly what the problem is before i go into the C code
[07:46] <cjwatson> but my own researches suggest that, at least for some people, DNS queries are only done if GSSAPIAuthentication is turned on (the details are boring)
[07:47] <cjwatson> and reverse DNS lookups through avahi take much longer to time out than normal reverse DNS lookups
[07:47] <cjwatson> why, I have no idea
[07:47] <lemsx1> cjwatson: umm... but if you use nscd (like i do) then the second time the IP is resolved should be lighting fast
[07:47] <cjwatson> compare e.g. 'time host 82.211.81.190' and 'time avahi-resolve-address 82.211.81.190' if you don't believe me
[07:48] <cjwatson> that's a host in the Canonical datacentre that currently has no reverse DNS (though we're trying to get that fixed)
[07:48] <bmhm> hi, i'd like to report some occurances I found out with grub/ubuntu
[07:49] <lemsx1> cjwatson: it does take 5 times longer to timeout
[07:49] <dholbach> bmhm: try http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub/+filebug
[07:49] <bmhm> when I put "elevator=cfq" to my boot menu, I have to put "irqpoll" too, for my WLan-Card to be rconized
[07:49] <bmhm> dholbach, just wanted to tell you before, just in case
[07:50] <dholbach> bmhm: ok
[07:50] <bmhm> btw i don#t want to register ;D
[07:50] <dholbach> see you guys tomorrow
[07:51] <cjwatson> bmhm: I'm sorry, but we don't accept unregistered bug reports because that means we have no way to get in touch with users later if there's a query
[07:51] <bmhm> cjwatson, i just found out i am already registered
[07:51] <cjwatson> in any case, that isn't a grub bug, but a kernel bug (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+filebug if this is feisty)
[07:51] <bmhm> i have no idea wether this is a kernel or a grub bug
[07:52] <bmhm> i post it as a grub bug...
[07:52] <cjwatson> it's not a grub bug.
[07:52] <cjwatson> please do not file it as one
[07:52] <bmhm> ok, edgy 64 then
[07:52] <cjwatson> if it's edgy, then https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+filebug
[07:52] <bmhm> ok on it
[07:59] <bmhm> cjwatson, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/96575
[07:59] <ubotu> Malone bug 96575 in linux-source-2.6.17 "loading with elevator=cfq forces using of irqpoll" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[07:59] <bmhm> hmm
[08:00] <bmhm> I hope I did it right... 
[08:00] <bmhm> ah i forgot dmesg
[08:01] <kylem> ...
[08:01] <kylem> the default ioschedular on amd64 generic is already cfq.
[08:01] <bmhm> ah really?
[08:01] <kylem> yes.
[08:01] <bmhm> well, german wiki didnt tell this
[08:01] <bmhm> it just said "add elevator=cfq"
[08:02] <bmhm> ... "to tune your system"
[08:02] <kylem> debian/config/amd64/config.generic:6:CONFIG_DEFAULT_IOSCHED="cfq"
[08:03] <shawarma> bmhm: It's been default since Breezy, I think.
[08:03] <bmhm> ok I just told them to correct that
[08:03] <bmhm> anyway, got sth else to show you
[08:03] <bmhm> http://nopaste.info/61126dd6bf.html
[08:03] <bmhm> see those stancer with a blank line before and after?
[08:04] <bmhm> it's being shown on bootup
[08:04] <mjg59> bmhm: Harmless
[08:04] <bmhm> ll 27-30
[08:04] <bmhm> ok
[08:04] <bmhm> anyway... any idea what it means?
[08:05] <mjg59> It means that the resources requested by those bits of hardware were unavailable
[08:05] <lemsx1> cjwatson: having avahi running or not (and removed from /etc/nsswitch.conf) has no effect on the ssh bug
[08:05] <mjg59> Which usually means that the BIOS never bothered programming them correctly
[08:05] <bmhm> ah I see
[08:05] <cjwatson> lemsx1: hmm, ok, odd
[08:05] <bmhm> how can I find out which device is meant by this msg?
[08:06] <mjg59> lspci. But it's harmless.
[08:08] <bmhm> it's my PCI bridge or ethernet-controller
[08:08] <bmhm> well since it works
[08:08] <bmhm> ...
[08:09] <bmhm> okay thanks a lot guys
[08:14] <bmhm> shawarma, is cfq default for just 64 bit or 32 bit, too?
[08:15] <shawarma> bmhm: both
[08:15] <mjg59> Yes
[08:15] <bmhm> well... then I will fix the german wiki
[08:16] <bmhm> it says Anticipatory I/O scheduler is standard
[08:16] <bmhm> I will remove that part then
[08:23] <yacoob> Hi. Will feisty have composite manager by default?
[08:24] <mrsno> available but not enabled by default yacoob 
[08:24] <mrsno> couple of clicks to enable
[08:34] <Burgwork> keescook: you around?
[08:35] <yacoob> mrsno, mhm. I gave it a try, but apparently my radeon 9600 plays dirty tricks on me.
[08:35] <yacoob> (xgl worked but e-ve-ry-thing-went-sooo-sloooow... and that was BEFORE I launched any compiz/beryl :)
[08:37] <keescook> Burgwork: yup, what's up?
[08:38] <Burgwork> keescook: I noticed some people beating up the asterisk devs for lack of disclosure on security bugs. Is this still an issue?
[08:44] <keescook> Burgwork: well, we'll know with their next release.  :)  They helped confirm the most recent patch, though.
[08:45] <Burgwork> keescook: ok, is good. so if I file an MIR for asterisk, would you approve it?
[08:48] <keescook> Burgwork: I've never done an MIR, but I'd like to see how things unfold with them
[09:17] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: yes: https://launchpad.net/bugs/87662
[09:17] <ubotu> Malone bug 87662 in Ubuntu "Please sync libclass-trait-perl from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]  
[10:41] <UBfusion> good evening from Greece
[10:43] <UBfusion> is there a way to include the 2.6.20-13.21 kernel to be released tomorrow iinto the existing 0326 amd64 desktop iso?
[10:44] <Mithrandir> UBfusion: easiest would be to just wait until tomorrow morning.
[10:44] <UBfusion> forgot to mention the CD does not boot
[10:44] <UBfusion> thanks Mithrandir 
[10:44] <Mithrandir> we roll daily CDs and since -13 is current now, it'll be on tomorrow's CDs.
[10:44] <UBfusion> i am doomed for so many weeks by the critical bugs and can't wait :-)
[10:45] <UBfusion> that's what I was expecting
[10:46] <UBfusion> #84964 is a pest... If Ben really nailed it, I'll send him a case of greek Ouzo :-)
[10:51] <maxamillion> how close is feisty to the package freeze?
[10:51] <Mithrandir> which package freeze?
[10:52] <ajmitch> hi Mithrandir 
[10:52] <maxamillion> Mithrandir: _the_ official feisty release repository freeze
[10:53] <Mithrandir> hiya Andrew
[10:53] <Mithrandir> maxamillion: around April 5th.
[10:55] <maxamillion> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[10:59] <maxamillion> are there any really pressing bugs in the current state of feisty or would it be safe to install the current beta on the new lot of laptops i just got here at work and do the updates when it goes stable (or should i install edgy and re-do them in a month?)
[11:01] <UBfusion> maxamillion, have a look here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/7.04-beta
[11:01] <maxamillion> UBfusion: thanks
[11:01] <UBfusion> most critical problems will hopefully be fixed tomorrow
[11:02] <UBfusion> some minor issues are in the feisty discussion http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=179
[11:02] <UBfusion> most have to do with wireless connectivity
[11:02] <UBfusion> and some with sound
[11:02] <maxamillion> hmmm... well wireless is needed, i might just stick with edgy for the next month to be safe
[11:03] <UBfusion> search the feisty forum for your wireless model and see
[11:03] <maxamillion> k
[11:05] <anti_pop> is it just me, or is it not possible to install nvidias legacy driver from the repos for a gf4 (because 9755 has no support for it)
[11:06] <UBfusion> i think i read something similar in the feisty discussions about an fx440.. so you may not be alone
[11:07] <UBfusion> from what i read, feisty is in turning point these 2 weeks, where fixing one thing causes regressions to others
[11:07] <UBfusion> peace and patience are needed in this phase.. and a lot of prayers ;-)
[11:08] <anti_pop> the hole circle was very quiet for me but the last two days with some kde upgrades and nvidia-glx some things got messed up
[11:09] <UBfusion> the metaphysics of it is really challenging.. on the one hand it's "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
[11:10] <UBfusion> on the other you want to see how feisty+1 will look like
[11:11] <anti_pop> i will not take part in feisty+1 as long as it is not released. but i learned so much by using feisty as a linux beginner (after 2 month edgy)
[11:12] <UBfusion> same for me... it's hard to find the balance... and newbies like me would really like to see more guides for regressing to previous states
[11:12] <UBfusion> like "how to regress to your previous network/gfx/sound drivers"
[11:12] <anti_pop> backports may provide enough fun i guess
[11:13] <Hobbsee> oh dear.  if you're a newbie, and dont know how to file bugs and use apt, you should *not* be using the development release
[11:13] <mooey> i love the idea that updates will break things :D
[11:13] <mooey> gives me something to do
[11:13] <Hobbsee> mooey: except when your machine doesnt boot, etc, and you need to chroot
[11:13] <mooey> Hobbsee: nah thats great fun
[11:13] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:14] <mooey> i use this machine every day for work, too :-)
[11:14] <Hobbsee> scary
[11:14] <mooey> its never broken, really, not seriously
[11:14] <UBfusion> Hobbsee, it's the other way round,  i use the betas in order to learn to file bugs
[11:14] <anti_pop> Hobbsee, i know..but by jumping into the cold water i learned how to use apt, make x start again, configure grub, sources, and fstab
[11:14] <Hobbsee> true.  X transition was mostly painless this time
[11:14] <mooey> but i pick my updates selectivly, and always a while after they come out
[11:15] <Hobbsee> anti_pop: true.  most people wont do that though
[11:15] <Hobbsee> UBfusion: fair enough
[11:15] <Hobbsee> a lot of people just upgrade everything at once, then go OH NO, THERE ARE PACKAGES HELD BACK!!! FEISTY IS SO BROKEN!!!
[11:16] <mooey> and those same people don't file bug reports :-)
[11:16] <Hobbsee> exactly
[11:16] <mooey> most helpful
[11:16] <Hobbsee> indeed.  not
[11:16] <Hobbsee> or they report on the forums.  also not helpful
[11:16] <UBfusion> they won't file bugs because they don't care much.. many of them are diggers that want to spend only 30 minutes with it
[11:17] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: not even debian unstable is really broken a lot
[11:17] <Chipzz> and they only have one archive run per day
[11:17] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: you'd be looking at experimental
[11:17] <Chipzz> instead of one every hour
[11:17] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: been there, done that, got the tshirt
[11:17] <Chipzz> :)
[11:17] <UBfusion> :-)
[11:17] <anti_pop> well not beeing able to install nvidia-glx-legacy is the first bug for me that i didnt find on launchpad
[11:17] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:18] <mooey> good night
[11:18] <UBfusion> natti
[11:18] <UBfusion> for me the egoist part is to make feisty work for myself.. the altrouistic part is to help fight bug#1
[11:19] <anti_pop> maybe its cause my .de servers are somewhat behind the original servers
[11:19] <anti_pop> my girlfriend lives with 2 other girls, at the moment they all got edgy running on their laptops, guess who showed em linux :)
[11:20] <cjwatson> Chipzz: (Debian has been on two archive cycles per day for some time now)
[11:21] <UBfusion> anti_pop, tha't the proper way to do a foursome ;-)
[11:21] <Chipzz> cjwatson: oh, it is? didn't know that
[11:21] <Chipzz> cjwatson: but point still stands
[11:22] <Chipzz> cjwatson: bugs get fixed faster in ubuntu partly because of the bigger amount of archive cycles
[11:22] <cjwatson> sure (though they also get introduced faster ;-)), was just a point of information
[11:36] <Riddell> infinity: could you give back kmplayer please
[11:37] <Riddell> infinity: and okular
[11:44] <Crescendo_> Yarrrrrrrrr.  Ubuntu needs a built-in suggestion/misc bug reporting feature built in.
[11:44] <Crescendo_> I don't want to have to log onto a website just to file a bug or report an annoying behavior. :(
[11:45] <adamant1988> Crescendo_: there is one.
[11:46] <Crescendo_> It's dysfunctional, though.  It only seems to be called when an application crashes.
[11:47] <adamant1988> Crescendo_: I can open it right now, without an app crashing
[11:48] <Crescendo_> The next time I'm trying to open an SFTP connection and the default keyring password box that I'm typing in is intruded by the "opening server" window, upon which the only option is "cancel" - I should be able to go System >> Help >> File a bug
[11:48] <mooey> Crescendo_: system -> report a problem
[11:48] <adamant1988> Crescendo_: Why don't you take 30 seconds to stop rambling and hit "System" and punch the "report a problem" button.  I think that's RIGHT up your alley.
[11:48] <Crescendo_> I don't see a report a problem button.
[11:48] <Crescendo_> Maybe that's only provided with fresh installs?
[11:48] <Crescendo_> ;_;
[11:49] <mooey> adamant1988: cool it
[11:49] <adamant1988> It was in mine, herd 5
[11:49] <mooey> Crescendo_: what version of ubuntu do you use?
[11:49] <Crescendo_> Oh, of course - I'm not using Herd 5, I'm on 6.10.
[11:49] <Crescendo_> So, problem is solved in the next release, awesome. :)
[11:49] <adamant1988> Yup
[11:50] <Crescendo_> Rawk, thanks for listening to my frustrated rant.  :P
[11:50] <mooey> Crescendo_: i'm sure such a menu item existed in edgy
[11:50] <mooey> Crescendo_: not with the same name, but in a simmilar vein
[11:51] <Crescendo_> mooey, I've had problems with new features not showing up after upgrades, like the power button top right after... one of the releases, 6.06 or something.
[11:51] <Crescendo_> It seems to come default on certain new installs, but not upgrades.
[11:51] <mooey> Crescendo_: the upgrade probably decides you have your panels configured how you like them and leaves them alone :-)
[11:52] <Crescendo_> mooey, probably, and it's not that much trouble to add it anyways.  Just a minor note I encounter on my daily install routines.
[11:53] <Crescendo_> I'm looking forward to seeing the Windows migration in action, by the way.
[11:54] <mooey> Crescendo_: i've just checked a not-upgraded edgy install, theres no report a bug button. in feisty it exists on the system menu and in the help menu of many apps :-)
[11:56] <Crescendo_> A lot of my clients use Windows, and are concerned about the migration issues.
[11:58] <mooey> hopefully the new stuff in feisty will push them to migrate :-)
[11:59] <Crescendo_> Me too.  Man, all of my requests for copious amounts of 6.06 CDs have been denied. ;_;
[12:00] <mooey> :(