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Seveassorry for ubotu being a pain12:16
SeveasI'm trying to fi it12:16
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Johnny5_I'd like to help contribute to the Ubuntu Help Center.02:40
Johnny5_I've been looking on the Documentation Team on the ubuntu wiki02:41
Johnny5_I guess the best way for me to get started is to click the Get Involved link at the top of this chat room02:44
LaserJockit has quite a bit of info02:45
Johnny5_I guess the only way to update and improve the system documentation is through launchpad02:49
LaserJocknot at all02:50
LaserJockthe wiki is a great place to help02:50
LaserJockand the shipped documentation is maintianed in a subversion repository02:51
Johnny5_Who updated the shipped documentation.02:51
Johnny5_I mean who updates it02:52
LaserJockthe doc team02:52
LaserJockas far as the Ubuntu stuff02:52
Johnny5_I feel that documentation is more powerful than the wiki documentation, at least for novice computer users.02:53
Johnny5_The wiki is so hard to find through links on the ubuntu site. Seems they have made it quite hard for new ubuntu users02:53
LaserJockit's linked all over the place02:54
Johnny5_I can't find it on the front page of ubuntu. Or through the support page. There is only link to the wiki pages on the support page but it is called "Local Community Teams"02:56
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Johnny5_I think they should make nice big buttons on the support page that make it easy to find, the forums, wiki, and other support pages.02:57
Johnny5_They just have a sentence with a few links in it to the wiki, forums etc.02:57
Johnny5_The navigation on the ubuntu site (in my opinion) needs to be more user friendly.03:00
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Johnny5_Maybe I'm crazy.03:00
tonyyarusso#ubuntu-matt still open?03:00
MoitioDocumentation site down? or is it just me?03:01
LaserJockseems fairly user friendly to me but I don't know03:01
LaserJockLaunchpad seems to be down perhaps03:01
Moitiowould that be why the ubuntu wiki is also down?03:01
Johnny5_help.ubuntu.com seems down.03:01
LaserJockthey're all linked together03:02
LaserJockLaunchpad is used for authentication03:02
Johnny5_authentication for what?03:03
LaserJockthe wiki03:03
Johnny5_Well the system documentation seems like a great start, but it sounds like it is only updated by 30 or so people.03:05
LaserJockmore like 503:05
Johnny5_I looked on launchpad, looked like about 25-3003:06
Johnny5_I am probably wrong03:06
LaserJockwell, no that could be how big the LP team is03:06
LaserJockbut in reality the shipped docs are done by around 5 or so people03:06
Johnny5_I think they should integrate a way for users to easily submit new documentation for the doc team to review and revise before putting it into the real docs.03:07
LaserJockthat's what the wiki is for03:07
LaserJockbut yeah, that's always an issue03:08
Johnny5_seems like there is too many systems for the same thing. The 5 or so people who update the system docs are really given the impossible task of transfering wiki docs to the system docs.03:08
Johnny5_Perhaps they should integrate the wiki into the syste docs somehow.03:09
LaserJockwell, I think that is something we'd like to work on03:09
MoitioBut the Wiki is also extensively used for many other things - whats there for the 5 or so people to differentiate between the good docs and the stuff used for developing?03:09
LaserJockMoitio: those are 2 different wikis03:09
LaserJockhelp.ubuntu.com/community is the help wiki03:10
Moitiooh i see :)03:10
LaserJockwiki.ubuntu.com is the development wiki03:10
MoitioI didn't notice that community one03:10
LaserJockwe have a tool to convert wiki pages to docbook03:10
LaserJockit seems to work ok03:10
LaserJockbut documentation just isn't always that easy to do03:11
Johnny5_Is the help.ubuntu.com identical to the system docs? Or is the system docs a bit behind as far as how up to date it is.03:11
LaserJockand we need to have high quality03:11
Johnny5_yea high quality certainly should be priority for the system docs03:11
LaserJockJohnny5_: the tabs at the top are exact copies of the system documentation03:11
LaserJockdoc.ubuntu.com has the "work in progress" stuff for the current development release03:12
LaserJockthere's a large range of quality levels and technologies involved with documentation03:14
Johnny5_well I'm certainly not saying the documentation is bad.03:16
LaserJockthere's always room for improvment though03:16
Johnny5_Well the documentation certainly beats most OS's documentation.03:17
LaserJockwe're getting there, it's really hard because it's all scattered03:18
LaserJockwe have man pages, info pages, Gnome help, KDE help03:18
Johnny5_It would be great to have all the documentation in one place.03:18
LaserJockthen we add on the Ubuntu layer03:18
LaserJockpretty much all the documentation is in the help center03:19
LaserJockit's just a matter of getting to it03:19
Johnny5_In the future some video tutorials would be good.03:20
LaserJockwe have those03:20
LaserJockthere is a screencasts team03:20
Johnny5_oh yeah. I've seen that.03:22
Johnny5_Ubuntu should come out with an exe file that downloads and burns the iso image to a cd automatically.03:24
Johnny5_To help even the extreme novice computer user to switch from windows to ubuntu03:25
Johnny5_perhaps the exe file should backup their windows data as well03:25
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mptThat's really strange06:10
mpthttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate used to exist, I remember editing it once or twice06:10
mptbut now there isn't even a revision history06:10
Burgundaviahmm, I see that06:11
Burgundaviagot moved06:12
mptwhere to? I don't see it in the template list, either06:12
BurgundaviaI am moving it back06:12
Burgundaviahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bicycle?action=RenamePage <-- won't let me move it back06:13
mptoh, I have the same error on the Launchpad wiki06:14
mptI'll make an RT request06:15
mpt(we could just recreate it, but that would lose the history)06:15
Burgundaviait is a known moin bug06:19
BurgundaviaI think we need to wait for 24 ours06:19
Burgundaviahmm, it seems like all moving is broken06:19
mptI've been waiting for months for the Launchpad equivalent, so I doubt it06:19
=== mpt tries again just in case
mptI've mailed the sysadmins06:27
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=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Documentation Team http://doc.ubuntu.com or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | Get involved! http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 | backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu CoC @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
=== Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by crimsun at Sat Dec 30 01:13:50 2006
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mdkemorning all09:19
Burgundaviamorning mdke09:22
mdkehiya Burgundavia09:23
mdkeBurgundavia: about your questions over the weekend09:24
BurgundaviaI honestly forget what they were09:24
mdkeyou can't use fop on the doc server, it has to be done on a system with X09:24
mdkeyou asked about edit rights on the website - I think people's rights have been carried over, you can ask newz what your login is if you want it09:25
mdkethere are a few things to get used to when editing, so have a chat with him09:27
BurgundaviaI understand he is on vacation right now09:27
mdkehe was around last friday09:28
mdkeI think he had a short break09:28
Burgundaviaanyway, I need to sleep09:29
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CIA-25Ubuntu Documentation: lucius feisty * r4018 /xubuntu/about/xubuntu-index.html: remove silly character entity in html file (no string change)02:30
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ubotuNew bug: #96060 in gnome-user-docs (universe) "gnome-user-docs outdated" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9606002:59
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CIA-25Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4019 /kubuntu/games/ (C/games.xml games.pot): small string flip - recreated pot and uploaded to LP - Closes 9493006:16
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sladenhow do I do  <strike>foadsfasdf</strike in the wiki?07:52
sladenI tried  <s>..</s>07:52
sladennope, didn't work08:00
sladen--(  )-- maybe08:02
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Laser_awaysladen: I don't understand what you are trying to do08:09
sladenmark something as done using a trike thorugh the middle08:10
sladenas in HTML  <strike>this ha been done</strike>08:10
sladenI found a page that says that in moinmoin, that's  --(asdfasdfasdf)--08:11
sladenbut that doesn't seem to be working, so I though I'd come and ask the experts08:11
nixternalsladen: we don't have strike enabled08:11
nixternalit should be --blah-- and that would strike it out08:11
sladennixternal: okay, how do I get it t enabled?08:11
nixternalbut, we have the biggest turd for a wiki. talk to the admins I guess and tell them to update to something newer than the 1960's :)08:12
nixternal--(blah)-- that's right08:12
Laser_awayit's not *that* old08:12
nixternalI almost want to start using DWOS for my wiki page so I can use it to track my work08:12
nixternalfor instance what sladen is trying to do. That is good when you have a list of jobs on the wiki so everyone can track your progress. and when complete, it would be nice to strike it out, but ummm you can't08:14
nixternalI guess you could use the {^} or whatever a checkmark is08:14
sladenhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/TheUbucon/Sevilla/TODO  is thepage in question08:14
Laser_awayyeah, I use checkmarks08:14
Laser_awaynixternal: I use my own wiki for TODO lists08:15
sladenso, can I email some admins and ask them to enable it?08:15
sladenseems mad that it was proactively disabled08:15
nixternalLaser_away: as do I for my personal stuff, but say for instance you want to see where I am at with Kubuntu docs or what not, you can look at my tasks page on the wiki and track it08:15
nixternalsladen: we may have a version that doesn't have that implemented yet as well08:16
Laser_awaysladen: it wasn't proactively disabled08:16
nixternalI think pulling teeth from a Lion would be easier08:16
Laser_awaywe just have a fairly old version of moin08:16
sladenwell, we can try08:16
nixternalexactly, what's the worse they can say, "NO"?08:16
sladenexactly, what do I CC, ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com ?08:17
nixternalhaha, they email sladen back saying dude, you have lost all access to life, go work for Gentoo!08:17
Laser_awaywe've been "working on it" for over a year08:17
sladenthey won't08:17
sladen(I hopes :)08:17
sladensysadmins are nice people, they just need stroking in the right ways08:17
Laser_awayI think they just have a lot of things they see as higher priority08:18
Laser_awayyou can poke elmo and see08:18
Laser_awayif I remember right we're running a fairly customized Moin08:19
Laser_awayand it's likely to be a decent sized job to upgrade08:19
nixternalthey are scared!08:20
Laser_awaywell, if they end up having to take down the wikis for a while it won't make people happy08:22
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