[12:16] <Seveas> hiya
[12:16] <Seveas> sorry for ubotu being a pain
[12:16] <Seveas> I'm trying to fi it
[02:40] <Johnny5_> I'd like to help contribute to the Ubuntu Help Center.
[02:41] <Johnny5_> I've been looking on the Documentation Team on the ubuntu wiki
[02:42] <LaserJock> cool
[02:44] <Johnny5_> I guess the best way for me to get started is to click the Get Involved link at the top of this chat room
[02:45] <LaserJock> it has quite a bit of info
[02:49] <Johnny5_> I guess the only way to update and improve the system documentation is through launchpad
[02:50] <LaserJock> not at all
[02:50] <LaserJock> the wiki is a great place to help
[02:51] <LaserJock> and the shipped documentation is maintianed in a subversion repository
[02:51] <Johnny5_> Who updated the shipped documentation.
[02:52] <Johnny5_> I mean who updates it
[02:52] <LaserJock> the doc team
[02:52] <LaserJock> as far as the Ubuntu stuff
[02:53] <Johnny5_> I feel that documentation is more powerful than the wiki documentation, at least for novice computer users.
[02:53] <Johnny5_> The wiki is so hard to find through links on the ubuntu site. Seems they have made it quite hard for new ubuntu users
[02:54] <LaserJock> really?
[02:54] <LaserJock> it's linked all over the place
[02:56] <Johnny5_> I can't find it on the front page of ubuntu. Or through the support page. There is only link to the wiki pages on the support page but it is called "Local Community Teams"
[02:57] <Johnny5_> I think they should make nice big buttons on the support page that make it easy to find, the forums, wiki, and other support pages.
[02:57] <Johnny5_> They just have a sentence with a few links in it to the wiki, forums etc.
[03:00] <Johnny5_> The navigation on the ubuntu site (in my opinion) needs to be more user friendly.
[03:00] <LaserJock> interesting
[03:00] <Johnny5_> Maybe I'm crazy.
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> #ubuntu-matt still open?
[03:01] <Moitio> Documentation site down? or is it just me?
[03:01] <LaserJock> seems fairly user friendly to me but I don't know
[03:01] <LaserJock> Launchpad seems to be down perhaps
[03:01] <Moitio> would that be why the ubuntu wiki is also down?
[03:01] <Johnny5_> help.ubuntu.com seems down.
[03:01] <LaserJock> yes
[03:02] <LaserJock> they're all linked together
[03:02] <LaserJock> Launchpad is used for authentication
[03:03] <Johnny5_> authentication for what?
[03:03] <LaserJock> the wiki
[03:03] <LaserJock> etc.
[03:03] <Johnny5_> yea
[03:05] <Johnny5_> Well the system documentation seems like a great start, but it sounds like it is only updated by 30 or so people.
[03:05] <LaserJock> 30?
[03:05] <LaserJock> more like 5
[03:06] <Johnny5_> I looked on launchpad, looked like about 25-30
[03:06] <Johnny5_> I am probably wrong
[03:06] <LaserJock> well, no that could be how big the LP team is
[03:06] <LaserJock> but in reality the shipped docs are done by around 5 or so people
[03:07] <Johnny5_> I think they should integrate a way for users to easily submit new documentation for the doc team to review and revise before putting it into the real docs.
[03:07] <LaserJock> that's what the wiki is for
[03:07] <Johnny5_> right.
[03:08] <LaserJock> but yeah, that's always an issue
[03:08] <Johnny5_> seems like there is too many systems for the same thing. The 5 or so people who update the system docs are really given the impossible task of transfering wiki docs to the system docs.
[03:09] <Johnny5_> Perhaps they should integrate the wiki into the syste docs somehow.
[03:09] <LaserJock> well, I think that is something we'd like to work on
[03:09] <Moitio> But the Wiki is also extensively used for many other things - whats there for the 5 or so people to differentiate between the good docs and the stuff used for developing?
[03:09] <LaserJock> Moitio: those are 2 different wikis
[03:10] <LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com/community is the help wiki
[03:10] <Moitio> oh i see :)
[03:10] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com is the development wiki
[03:10] <Moitio> I didn't notice that community one
[03:10] <LaserJock> we have a tool to convert wiki pages to docbook
[03:10] <LaserJock> it seems to work ok
[03:11] <LaserJock> but documentation just isn't always that easy to do
[03:11] <Johnny5_> Is the help.ubuntu.com identical to the system docs? Or is the system docs a bit behind as far as how up to date it is.
[03:11] <LaserJock> and we need to have high quality
[03:11] <Johnny5_> yea high quality certainly should be priority for the system docs
[03:11] <LaserJock> Johnny5_: the tabs at the top are exact copies of the system documentation
[03:12] <LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com has the "work in progress" stuff for the current development release
[03:14] <LaserJock> there's a large range of quality levels and technologies involved with documentation
[03:15] <Johnny5_> yea
[03:16] <Johnny5_> well I'm certainly not saying the documentation is bad.
[03:16] <LaserJock> there's always room for improvment though
[03:17] <Johnny5_> yep.
[03:17] <Johnny5_> Well the documentation certainly beats most OS's documentation.
[03:18] <LaserJock> we're getting there, it's really hard because it's all scattered
[03:18] <Johnny5_> yeah.
[03:18] <LaserJock> we have man pages, info pages, Gnome help, KDE help
[03:18] <Johnny5_> It would be great to have all the documentation in one place.
[03:18] <LaserJock> then we add on the Ubuntu layer
[03:19] <LaserJock> pretty much all the documentation is in the help center
[03:19] <LaserJock> it's just a matter of getting to it
[03:19] <Johnny5_> yeah.
[03:20] <Johnny5_> In the future some video tutorials would be good.
[03:20] <LaserJock> we have those
[03:20] <LaserJock> there is a screencasts team
[03:20] <Johnny5_> ah.
[03:21] <LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/
[03:22] <Johnny5_> oh yeah. I've seen that.
[03:24] <Johnny5_> Ubuntu should come out with an exe file that downloads and burns the iso image to a cd automatically.
[03:25] <Johnny5_> To help even the extreme novice computer user to switch from windows to ubuntu
[03:25] <Johnny5_> perhaps the exe file should backup their windows data as well
[06:10] <mpt> That's really strange
[06:10] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate used to exist, I remember editing it once or twice
[06:10] <mpt> but now there isn't even a revision history
[06:11] <Burgundavia> hmm, I see that
[06:12] <Burgundavia> got moved
[06:12] <mpt> where to? I don't see it in the template list, either
[06:12] <Burgundavia> I am moving it back
[06:12] <Burgundavia> crap
[06:13] <mpt> ?
[06:13] <Burgundavia> arghhh
[06:13] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bicycle?action=RenamePage <-- won't let me move it back
[06:14] <mpt> oh, I have the same error on the Launchpad wiki
[06:15] <Burgundavia> uggh
[06:15] <mpt> I'll make an RT request
[06:15] <mpt> (we could just recreate it, but that would lose the history)
[06:19] <Burgundavia> it is a known moin bug
[06:19] <Burgundavia> I think we need to wait for 24 ours
[06:19] <Burgundavia> hmm, it seems like all moving is broken
[06:19] <mpt> I've been waiting for months for the Launchpad equivalent, so I doubt it
[06:27] <mpt> I've mailed the sysadmins
[09:19] <mdke> morning all
[09:22] <Burgundavia> morning mdke
[09:23] <mdke> hiya Burgundavia
[09:24] <mdke> Burgundavia: about your questions over the weekend
[09:24] <Burgundavia> I honestly forget what they were
[09:24] <mdke> you can't use fop on the doc server, it has to be done on a system with X
[09:24] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:24] <Burgundavia> right
[09:25] <mdke> you asked about edit rights on the website - I think people's rights have been carried over, you can ask newz what your login is if you want it
[09:27] <mdke> there are a few things to get used to when editing, so have a chat with him
[09:27] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:27] <Burgundavia> I understand he is on vacation right now
[09:28] <mdke> hmm
[09:28] <mdke> he was around last friday
[09:28] <mdke> I think he had a short break
[09:29] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:29] <Burgundavia> anyway, I need to sleep
[09:29] <mdke> night
[02:30] <CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius feisty * r4018 /xubuntu/about/xubuntu-index.html: remove silly character entity in html file (no string change)
[02:59] <ubotu> New bug: #96060 in gnome-user-docs (universe) "gnome-user-docs outdated" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96060
[06:16] <CIA-25> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal feisty * r4019 /kubuntu/games/ (C/games.xml games.pot): small string flip - recreated pot and uploaded to LP - Closes 94930
[07:52] <sladen> how do I do  <strike>foadsfasdf</strike in the wiki?
[07:52] <sladen> I tried  <s>..</s>
[07:57] <Laser_away> strike?
[08:00] <sladen> nope, didn't work
[08:02] <sladen> --(  )-- maybe
[08:09] <Laser_away> sladen: I don't understand what you are trying to do
[08:10] <sladen> mark something as done using a trike thorugh the middle
[08:10] <sladen> as in HTML  <strike>this ha been done</strike>
[08:11] <sladen> I found a page that says that in moinmoin, that's  --(asdfasdfasdf)--
[08:11] <sladen> but that doesn't seem to be working, so I though I'd come and ask the experts
[08:11] <nixternal> sladen: we don't have strike enabled
[08:11] <nixternal> it should be --blah-- and that would strike it out
[08:11] <sladen> nixternal: okay, how do I get it t enabled?
[08:12] <nixternal> but, we have the biggest turd for a wiki. talk to the admins I guess and tell them to update to something newer than the 1960's :)
[08:12] <nixternal> --(blah)-- that's right
[08:12] <Laser_away> lol
[08:12] <Laser_away> it's not *that* old
[08:12] <nixternal> I almost want to start using DWOS for my wiki page so I can use it to track my work
[08:13] <Laser_away> ?
[08:14] <nixternal> for instance what sladen is trying to do. That is good when you have a list of jobs on the wiki so everyone can track your progress. and when complete, it would be nice to strike it out, but ummm you can't
[08:14] <nixternal> I guess you could use the {^} or whatever a checkmark is
[08:14] <sladen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TheUbucon/Sevilla/TODO  is thepage in question
[08:14] <Laser_away> yeah, I use checkmarks
[08:15] <Laser_away> nixternal: I use my own wiki for TODO lists
[08:15] <sladen> so, can I email some admins and ask them to enable it?
[08:15] <Laser_away> heh
[08:15] <sladen> seems mad that it was proactively disabled
[08:15] <nixternal> Laser_away: as do I for my personal stuff, but say for instance you want to see where I am at with Kubuntu docs or what not, you can look at my tasks page on the wiki and track it
[08:16] <nixternal> sladen: we may have a version that doesn't have that implemented yet as well
[08:16] <Laser_away> sladen: it wasn't proactively disabled
[08:16] <nixternal> I think pulling teeth from a Lion would be easier
[08:16] <Laser_away> we just have a fairly old version of moin
[08:16] <sladen> well, we can try
[08:16] <nixternal> exactly, what's the worse they can say, "NO"?
[08:17] <Laser_away> heh
[08:17] <sladen> exactly, what do I CC, ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com ?
[08:17] <nixternal> haha, they email sladen back saying dude, you have lost all access to life, go work for Gentoo!
[08:17] <Laser_away> we've been "working on it" for over a year
[08:17] <sladen> they won't
[08:17] <sladen> (I hopes :)
[08:17] <sladen> sysadmins are nice people, they just need stroking in the right ways
[08:17] <Laser_away> well
[08:18] <Laser_away> I think they just have a lot of things they see as higher priority
[08:18] <Laser_away> you can poke elmo and see
[08:19] <Laser_away> if I remember right we're running a fairly customized Moin
[08:19] <Laser_away> and it's likely to be a decent sized job to upgrade
[08:20] <nixternal> they are scared!
[08:22] <Laser_away> well, if they end up having to take down the wikis for a while it won't make people happy