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| mjg59 | BenC: Why do we suddenly have the linux-phc insanity? | 02:47 |
|---|---|---|
| mjg59 | BenC: It provides the ability for people to fry their hardware in exceedingly nasty ways | 02:47 |
| BenC | mjg59: We don't | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | UBUNTU: speedstep-centrino: Include linux-phc built-in tables. | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | Bug: 63789 | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | 02:49 | |
| BenC | mjg59: All we have is the tables for speedstep-centrino | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | Oh. No, you don't want that either. | 02:49 |
| BenC | none of the sysfs twiddling is there | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | There's four different sets of tables for dothans | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | And no way of telling which one is correct | 02:50 |
| mjg59 | Using the wrong one risks hardware damage | 02:50 |
| BenC | I thought each table was matched | 02:50 |
| BenC | at least that's the way I read it | 02:50 |
| BenC | we had the tables in dapper/edgy | 02:50 |
| mjg59 | BenC: No, it's matched on cpuid as far as I can tell - that's not sufficient | 02:52 |
| mjg59 | There's a chance it'll either overvolt it (potential hardware damage) or undervolt it (potential instability) | 02:52 |
| BenC | mjg59: fuck, as it is now we have cpu's that are running hot to the point that user's can't even watch a video on youtube without it shutting down :/ | 02:53 |
| mjg59 | Their hardware is broken | 02:54 |
| mjg59 | "fixing" it risks breaking other people's hardware | 02:54 |
| BenC | but "it works on windows" | 02:54 |
| mjg59 | The Windows vendor knows what CPU they shipped | 02:54 |
| BenC | and "linux-phc makes this work" | 02:54 |
| BenC | I hate this | 02:55 |
| BenC | I have to pick between two groups, but definitely the group that risks hw damage wins | 02:55 |
| BenC | I wonder if I can disable use of the tables by default | 02:59 |
| BenC | use a kernel cmdline options to enable it | 02:59 |
| BenC | sounds like a plan | 02:59 |
| mjg59 | http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/7/3/240 | 02:59 |
| BenC | yeah, I've read the threads | 03:00 |
| BenC | which is why I yanked the sysfs twiddling | 03:00 |
| BenC | but I though the tables were safe | 03:00 |
| mjg59 | Check Arjan's message in that thread | 03:00 |
| BenC | mjg59: Gotcha | 03:04 |
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| zul | hola | 03:35 |
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| reitblatt | where is l-r-m-2.6.20-13? | 04:00 |
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| tritium | Hi BenC | 04:11 |
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| BenC | doko: I reproduced your gelic_net problem, I'll fix that for next upload | 06:09 |
| BenC | doko: wow, I'm not sure...I think it might be caused by the last firmware update | 06:09 |
| BenC | doko: reverting to an older kernel doesn't fix it | 06:10 |
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| reitblatt | BenC: where's l-r-m-2.6.20-13 ? | 07:00 |
| BenC | reitblatt: last I checked it was on the build systems being processed | 07:01 |
| tritium | reitblatt: I was able to download it. (it built correctly) | 07:01 |
| tritium | But, Atheros support didn't improve. Still no wireless networking for me with AR5212... | 07:02 |
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| tritium | reitblatt: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/313591 | 07:04 |
| reitblatt | BenC, tritium: thanks | 07:10 |
| mjg59 | BenC: That patch I sent you is kind of important - fixes a fairly major regression from edgy | 07:28 |
| === Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-kernel.log | ||
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| === Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | Kernel Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam | 2.6.20-13.21 Uploaded - If you aren't using it, then you risk your bugs not getting fixed. | BUG STATUS (2.6.20): 352 Open, 6 Unconfirmed, 6 Unassigned | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by BenC at Sat Mar 24 21:30:43 2007 | ||
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| glick | hi | 08:46 |
| reitblatt | howdy | 08:46 |
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| glick | hey reitblatt | 08:47 |
| glick | hey has anyone here read the book linux device drivers third ed. ? | 08:48 |
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| glick | is anyone up? | 10:40 |
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| tepsipakki | BenC: I searched lp but couldn't find a bug open about megaraid (PERC2/DC) not being fired up properly on boot. Installing Feisty beta went fine | 02:50 |
| tepsipakki | that's a friend of mine reporting | 02:51 |
| tepsipakki | the hd's weren't found on boot | 02:51 |
| BenC | tepsipakki: there was some problems with dapper, and pre-release edgy, but feisty should be ok | 02:51 |
| BenC | dapper requires the -security kernel to work, IIRC | 02:52 |
| tepsipakki | he said that edgy didn't work either :/ | 02:52 |
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| tepsipakki | but I'll ask for more information | 02:57 |
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| AlinuxOS | BenC, well done, everything is perfect. Thank You! | 03:01 |
| BenC | AlinuxOS: np | 03:01 |
| BenC | AlinuxOS: I found the bug about 5 minutes after you logged off last week from our debug session :) | 03:01 |
| BenC | tepsipakki: so it works with feisty? | 03:01 |
| BenC | AlinuxOS: so you went a long way to helping me find it, thanks | 03:02 |
| AlinuxOS | BenC, so I've helped in something :)? | 03:02 |
| AlinuxOS | BenC, great :) feel free to use my computers sources.. :) | 03:03 |
| AlinuxOS | always happy to help you all guys. | 03:03 |
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| tepsipakki | BenC: installation works, but on reboot the disks are not found | 03:09 |
| BenC | tepsipakki: I'm not sure how that can be... | 03:10 |
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| tepsipakki | BenC: yep, doesn't make sense :) | 03:14 |
| tepsipakki | hum, there is no l-r-m for -13? | 03:17 |
| reitblatt | tepsipakki: was uploaded several hours ago | 03:18 |
| reitblatt | try updating | 03:18 |
| Mithrandir | I NEWed it this morning, iirc. | 03:18 |
| tepsipakki | ok, thanks | 03:19 |
| tepsipakki | there were some bugs on nvidia "crashing" :) | 03:19 |
| reitblatt | yeah, several of them | 03:19 |
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| giri | BenC: ping | 03:20 |
| BenC | giri: pong | 03:20 |
| giri | BenC: hi, I am ndiswrapper developer | 03:20 |
| BenC | giri: hey | 03:21 |
| giri | I notice that on Summer of Code 2007, ubuntu proposes to improve ndiswrapper installtion | 03:21 |
| BenC | giri: It wasn't something I was aware of | 03:21 |
| giri | ah, ok | 03:21 |
| BenC | I thought it was already pretty easy | 03:21 |
| giri | I have been trying to find out who to contact about it | 03:21 |
| giri | actually, I am proposing to improve stability of ndiswrapper | 03:22 |
| giri | esp with SMP | 03:22 |
| giri | would you know if I should contact someone else about it? | 03:22 |
| giri | BenC: right now, ndiswrapper crashes with smp with certain drivers | 03:23 |
| BenC | giri: For the driver installation, not sure | 03:24 |
| BenC | giri: For making it more stable under smp, I can help | 03:25 |
| giri | BenC: actually, what I need is hardware (smp box, various cards to test) | 03:26 |
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| giri | not sure if soc2007 is the way to go about it | 03:27 |
| giri | or some kind of sponsorship (either through ubuntu or through some other means) would be better? | 03:27 |
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| giri | BenC: sorry to repeat, but could you clarify how you and/or ubuntu can help? | 03:38 |
| BenC | giri: me, I'm willing to test and channel bugs :) | 03:38 |
| BenC | giri: Ubuntu, I'd have to talk to some folks | 03:38 |
| giri | BenC: ok, tia | 03:38 |
| BenC | giri: Honestly, I think Ubuntu's more willing to sponsor people making opensource drivers, rather than ndiswrapper work, but I can find out | 03:39 |
| giri | BenC: yes, I am all to aware of ndiswrapper being smudgy | 03:40 |
| giri | BenC: in fact, that has been one of the major handicaps of this project | 03:40 |
| BenC | giri: You're probably more than aware of the outside view of ndiswrapper by most of the kernel community :) | 03:40 |
| giri | BenC: I have spent _way too much time_ on ndiswrapper, with not much help from others (either materially or code contribution) | 03:41 |
| giri | BenC: talking of kernel community, I have a patch to fix an issue in kernel, but not in the mood for dealing with people ranting about ndiswrapper | 03:41 |
| giri | BenC: although patch has nothing to do with ndiswrapper | 03:42 |
| giri | BenC: if you are interested, the patch fixes __vmalloc to allocate memory in GFP_ATOMIC | 03:42 |
| giri | BenC: right now, if you use __vmalloc with GFP_ATOMIC, it will result in BUG_ON | 03:42 |
| giri | BenC: __vmalloc is used in couple of places in kernel | 03:43 |
| giri | BenC: coming back to ndiswrapper, if you could find if/how ubuntu can help, that will be great | 03:43 |
| giri | BenC: please let me know if anything works out - my address (pgiri@yahoo.com) should be in ndiswrapper project info | 03:44 |
| tepsipakki | BenC: ok, a bit more info about that megaraid-issue: it's a Dell Poweredge 2400 and he has a mirrored disk pair and installed Feisty on them, LVM in between. Booting it makes drops it to busybox after local-premount, but I could see the megaraid being loaded _after_ that, and it fails | 03:44 |
| tepsipakki | BenC: clarification; hw-mirrored disks, and LVM on top of that | 03:45 |
| tepsipakki | err, s/makes // | 03:47 |
| tepsipakki | he's doing an installation without LVM now | 03:48 |
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| BenC | tepsipakki: sounds more like a sw issue with the initramfs detecting the lvm and such | 03:53 |
| tepsipakki | that could be it | 03:55 |
| tepsipakki | there's also an error from modprobe right after local-premount | 03:55 |
| tepsipakki | but I couldn't trace the source | 03:55 |
| tepsipakki | it shows the usage of modprobe, so maybe a typo somewhere | 03:56 |
| tepsipakki | BenC: it worked without LVM | 04:11 |
| tepsipakki | so not a kernel issue | 04:11 |
| BenC | giri: Will do, thanks | 04:12 |
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| tritium_ | BenC: got the latest l-r-m updates this morning. I'm using Atheros AR5212 at the airport :) | 04:30 |
| BenC | tritium_: sweet | 04:31 |
| tritium_ | Many thanks! | 04:31 |
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| tepsipakki | BenC: seems that the root-cause was that the megaraid was in I2O-emulation mode, not in "mass storage" mode :) | 05:03 |
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| pochu | hi all :) I don't know to which package set this bug, any idea? bug 96545 | 06:44 |
| pochu | hi all :) I don't know to which package set this bug, any idea? bug 96545 | 06:44 |
| pochu | is not ubotu here? | 06:45 |
| Mithrandir | no | 06:45 |
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| ivoks | pochu: you didn't have linux-386 installed before | 06:49 |
| ivoks | this is a bug that's old as hoary | 06:50 |
| pochu | LoL | 06:52 |
| pochu | not my bug though :) | 06:52 |
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| xipietotec | oh...haven't submitted this as a bug yet...been to busy trying to fix my feisty install, but if someone else wants to. The kernel-386 packages for dist-upgrade do not point correctly to the -generic kernels, ergo, no kernel gets installed, but the config files for the kernel does....ergo...no booting. I had to chroot from the live cd into my hd, delete the -386 kernels, and install the -generic kernel | 08:34 |
| xipietotec | actually I had to download the -generic kernel directly from the packages site, and install it that way...couldn't use the repository method | 08:36 |
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| thotz | BenC: which is the main bug for the update from nvidia-glx (96xx) --> nvidia-glx (97xx) affecting some gforce users? could you tell me this. have we one? | 08:50 |
| BenC | thotz: Not that I know of | 08:51 |
| BenC | xipietotec: the -386 should point to -386, not -generic | 08:51 |
| Mithrandir | thotz: what do you mean? | 08:51 |
| thotz | BenC: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/96430 | 08:52 |
| xipietotec | BenC: I thought in feisty -386 had been merged with generic? | 08:53 |
| BenC | xipietotec: No, -686 and -k7 merged together into -generic | 08:53 |
| BenC | actually, -686, -686-smp, -k7 and -k7-smp have all merged into -generic | 08:53 |
| xipietotec | ah, okay...bizzare, well anyways, for some reason I had to delete my -386 and install generic...because it did not install the latest -386 kernel when I dist upgraded | 08:54 |
| anti_pop | 9755 doesnt support cards older than geforce FX series. and it doesnt seem to be possible to use the 9631 from nvidia.com with 2.6.20-13 | 08:54 |
| xipietotec | installed the config for it, but not the kernel | 08:54 |
| BenC | xipietotec: Were you missing some linux-386 meta packages? | 08:54 |
| BenC | you should at least have had linux-386 or linux-image-386 | 08:54 |
| thotz | BenC: Do you know now what I mean? | 08:54 |
| BenC | xipietotec: There's no way to get the config without the image | 08:55 |
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| BenC | thotz: you mean a bug that others can be set as duplicate of, right? | 08:55 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: Issues with nvidia code generally have to go to nvidia | 08:55 |
| BenC | yeah, I'm not sure what people are wanting us to do here | 08:56 |
| BenC | nvidia dropped support, not us | 08:56 |
| BenC | we can pretty much ship what they provide | 08:56 |
| xipietotec | BenC: I had configs and kernel images for earlier versions of the -386 kernel, but for the lastest version, ending in .20 or whatever, I had the config file, but no kernel image. Even trying to reinstall the kernel-image to rebuild my initrd wouldn't fix it (it would just hang after checking the root file system) so I had to delete all of them, and then I switched to -generic | 08:56 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: they want us to ship three sets of nvidia drivers, not just two. | 08:56 |
| BenC | we vary from that and we start making problems for us and users | 08:56 |
| thotz | BenC: yes -> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81668 | 08:56 |
| thotz | BenC and http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75603 | 08:56 |
| xipietotec | oddly, even if I switched to the older versions of the -386 kernel image, I could not finish booting | 08:57 |
| thotz | BenC: 2 legacy drivers + 1 new driver = 3 drivers | 08:57 |
| BenC | No, I know exactly what's going on, I just don't get why this is "Ubuntu better fix it" and not "nvidia better fix it" | 08:57 |
| mjg59 | = more pain and misery | 08:57 |
| anti_pop | cause its the new feisty kernel that doest work with the 9631 driver ? | 08:57 |
| BenC | we provide the drivers as a courtesy to users, so they can get the most from their hw | 08:57 |
| anti_pop | -12 did | 08:57 |
| BenC | anti_pop: No, that's not it | 08:58 |
| BenC | 9631 only worked with feisty kernel because I patched it | 08:58 |
| anti_pop | i see | 08:58 |
| BenC | you can get 9631 working with feisty if you hand patch it and build it | 08:58 |
| BenC | google can show you this | 08:58 |
| anti_pop | well im a user not a developer and have no idea how to do this | 08:58 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: I recommend contacting nvidia | 08:59 |
| BenC | but that doesn't lay the responsibility on our laps to make it work | 08:59 |
| anti_pop | so if you once patched it, why didnt you use that patch for -13 too ? | 09:00 |
| BenC | we're going above and beyond any other distro already, sticking our necks out to provide the drivers that nvidia makes available. Asking us to go further than that is a little much | 09:00 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: Because we're not shipping 9631 | 09:00 |
| BenC | anti_pop: the patch isn't for the kernel, it's for the nvidia driver | 09:00 |
| thotz | BenC: Sure. I still need a master bug for this. I would call it "Master" then. If you don't tell me, I can't help to make launchpad. | 09:00 |
| BenC | our kernel is perfectly fine | 09:00 |
| anti_pop | so there is no support for geforce 4,3 on ubuntu ? | 09:00 |
| BenC | thotz: The one you pointed to is fine | 09:00 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: There is. Use the 7xxx series driver. | 09:00 |
| anti_pop | i will not | 09:00 |
| BenC | anti_pop: There's no support for it in the driver we get from nvidia | 09:00 |
| BenC | anti_pop: If the driver nvidia ships doesn't work, we can't help it | 09:01 |
| thotz | thotz: ok, thanks. should i assign it to somebody? | 09:01 |
| BenC | thotz: ubuntu-kernel-team, mark it confirmed and medium for now | 09:01 |
| anti_pop | so concerning that bug, ubuntu will not have 9631 legacy ? | 09:01 |
| BenC | thotz: thanks | 09:01 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: Correct | 09:01 |
| BenC | anti_pop: nvidia is not maintaining drivers that support your card on linux | 09:01 |
| BenC | anti_pop: hence, we cannot do so either | 09:02 |
| anti_pop | until yesterday they did | 09:02 |
| thotz | BenC: I can't set priority. Sorry... | 09:02 |
| BenC | anti_pop: if we ship the 9631 driver, we cannot ensure that it will remain secure over the lifetime of feisty, which means we open our users up to unsupported and possibly insecure code | 09:02 |
| BenC | anti_pop: I'd rather not have that hanging on my conscience | 09:03 |
| BenC | thotz: Ok, I'll get it | 09:03 |
| anti_pop | hmm, but what would be the difference to the 7xxx legacy driver ? | 09:05 |
| anti_pop | this is supported, secure code | 09:06 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: Every extra set of binary-only drivers shipped adds to the support load | 09:06 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: This results in security updates taking longer, and increases the risk of extra issues being introduced | 09:07 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: The 7xxx drivers support your hardware. They will be shipped. | 09:07 |
| thotz | I still not understand why a 7xxx legacy works and a 9xxx legacy shouldn't work. But that's my own oppinion. | 09:08 |
| mjg59 | thotz: Every set of binary-only drivers shipped adds to the suppotr load | 09:09 |
| BenC | 7xxx driver is maintained by nvidia still | 09:09 |
| mjg59 | thotz: This results in security updates taking longer, and increases the risk of extra issues being introduced | 09:09 |
| BenC | they've been updating it and fixing issues in it | 09:09 |
| thotz | BenC: and the 9xxx legacy not? | 09:10 |
| BenC | thotz: No, nvidia supports 7xxx legacy driver and 9xxx tip driver | 09:11 |
| BenC | for us to keep supporting new cards, and retain security fixes, we have to follow the latest in both those lines | 09:12 |
| BenC | we are at nvidia's mercy as to whether or not they drop support for particular chipsets | 09:12 |
| anti_pop | what does "tip" driver mean ? | 09:12 |
| BenC | the 7xxx series legacy driver is a direct result of users, like you guys, complaing to nvidia, not Ubuntu, about losing support | 09:12 |
| BenC | anti_pop: It means the newest version of their driver | 09:12 |
| anti_pop | http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81668 | 09:13 |
| BenC | 7xxx driver is a fork maintained to support older cards that they stopped supporting in the latest driver | 09:13 |
| anti_pop | they realease a 9631 legacy and dont maintain/support it ? | 09:13 |
| BenC | anti_pop: Yes, they support it until 9632 comes out, then you have to use that | 09:14 |
| BenC | each time they release a new version, you have to update to the newer version if you want security and stability fixes | 09:14 |
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| anti_pop | so there is only 1 real legacy driver (7xxx) | 09:15 |
| BenC | yes | 09:15 |
| anti_pop | so everyone with a nvidia card <FX who will install feisty fawn is forced to use this old legacy driver | 09:16 |
| anti_pop | not good imo | 09:16 |
| BenC | what's not good about it? | 09:17 |
| BenC | anti_pop: Is there something wrong with the 7xxx driver on those chipsets? | 09:17 |
| anti_pop | fixed problems in updated drivers ? | 09:17 |
| mjg59 | Which ones? | 09:17 |
| BenC | the "fixed problems" are problems affecting cards > than the ones dropped | 09:17 |
| BenC | 7xxx is maintained, let's not forget this | 09:18 |
| xipietotec | anti_pop: everyone who has a <FX card, who upgrades to any latest version of any distro out there, will have to use the 7xxx driver, because Nvidia dropped support for the chipset in *their* latest driver releases. | 09:18 |
| BenC | hence using it isn't a problem | 09:18 |
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| anti_pop | ok, thanks for all this useful input | 09:18 |
| BenC | anti_pop: If you installed a linux distro today that didn't come with nvidia drivers, and went to nvidia's site to download them, you'd get the 7xxx driver | 09:18 |
| anti_pop | what is the way to setup stuff like twinview with legacy driver ? | 09:19 |
| BenC | same way as with the regular driver | 09:19 |
| BenC | it has a control panel and all | 09:19 |
| anti_pop | nvidia-settings ? | 09:19 |
| BenC | yes | 09:20 |
| xipietotec | anti_pop: don't like the state events? support nouveau | 09:20 |
| anti_pop | definitly! | 09:20 |
| anti_pop | i think i have to add a comment to that bug | 09:20 |
| mjg59 | Please don't add comments to bugs unless they add new information | 09:21 |
| anti_pop | i think most people dont know what the 7xxx legacy is | 09:21 |
| anti_pop | and maybe the packages nvidia-glx and nvidia-glx-legacy should contain for which card they are | 09:22 |
| anti_pop | on information | 09:22 |
| anti_pop | sorry for my english | 09:22 |
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| anti_pop | well the legacy driver is not working here | 09:31 |
| mjg59 | anti_pop: Please file a bug about it | 09:32 |
| anti_pop | i have to make sure i didnt do something wrong first | 09:32 |
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| alucard | my make-kpkg won't do anything, it just stops and says "nothing to be done" can anyone help me | 09:40 |
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| alucard | my make-kpkg won't do anything, it just stops and says "nothing to be done" can anyone help me | 09:42 |
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| ScottK | Is this the best place to discuss network related kernel bugs? I'm specifically interested in [Bug 86742] D-Link AirPlus DWL-G650 Wireless (rev.C) - Atheros AR5212 (rev 01) does not work in Feisty | 11:00 |
| Lure | ScottK: from earlier today: | 11:02 |
| Lure | [Mon Mar 26 2007] [16:30:47] <tritium_> BenC: got the latest l-r-m updates this morning. I'm using Atheros AR5212 at the airport :) | 11:02 |
| BenC | ScottK: Make sure you have latest -13 kernel + lrm | 11:03 |
| ScottK | I do have the latest (-13 kernel). | 11:03 |
| ScottK | l-r-m? | 11:03 |
| JoseStefan | restricted modules | 11:04 |
| ScottK | OK. I'll check that then. Thanks. | 11:05 |
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| lifeless | BenC: ping | 11:14 |
| BenC | lifeless: hey | 11:14 |
| lifeless | am I confused ? :). I thought you had previously been involved closishly with svn (and I know you're not sussman) | 11:15 |
| BenC | lifeless: yeah, a few years ago I was doing a lot in regards to memory consumptions and stuff in svn | 11:15 |
| lifeless | right | 11:16 |
| BenC | but I'm only involved by name anymore | 11:16 |
| lifeless | thats cool | 11:16 |
| lifeless | we have this bug (OT here) :) that would be nice to get someone at svn to care about. | 11:16 |
| lifeless | and I thought you might know who to prod to make that happen. | 11:16 |
| BenC | sussman is one | 11:17 |
| lifeless | it breaks the cscvs package's test suite. | 11:17 |
| BenC | doesn't svn have a channel on freenode? | 11:17 |
| lifeless | yah | 11:17 |
| lifeless | it would suck to ship feisty broken though; if we dont get traction through regular channels soon, perhaps you could email sussman an introduction ? | 11:18 |
| BenC | sure | 11:18 |
| lifeless | thanks | 11:18 |
| ScottK | It was lack of lrm that did it. Installing that solved my problem. Thank you very much Lure, BenC, and JoseStefan. I'll update that bug. | 11:19 |
| JoseStefan | make sure you have the meta package, so you can avoid that, dont remember the name right now | 11:20 |
| BenC | ScottK: sudo apt-get install linux-generic | 11:21 |
| BenC | that will keep things up-to-date | 11:21 |
| BenC | ScottK: Please just set the bug to rejected or fix-released whichever you feel is appropriate | 11:21 |
| ScottK | BenC: Will do. I'll also update the wireless wiki support page too. | 11:22 |
| BenC | ScottK: for reference on that page, note we have madwifi 0.9.3 now | 11:22 |
| BenC | link to it's support page would probably make things a lot easier to maintain | 11:22 |
| ScottK | OK. I'll take a look at that too. | 11:23 |
| [g2] | crimsun, around ? | 11:26 |
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| ScottK | BenC: Which "that page" - I don't think I was thinking the same page needed updating that you did? | 11:34 |
| [g2] | BenC, how crazy are things for the release ? | 11:35 |
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