[12:57] <pochu> hi Mithrandir :) if you have a moment, can you please review bug 97182? Thanks in advance and good night!
[12:57] <ubotu> Malone bug 97182 in liferea "[UVFe]  liferea 1.2.10" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97182
[12:58] <Sp4rKy> hi
[12:58] <Sp4rKy> somepeople who works on the auto update gnome plugin ?
[01:08] <maxamillion> with the addition of the easy codecs and such, are there any complications with upgrading from edgy (I was under the impression that some of the packages have been renamed or dummied by meta packages)
[01:08] <Burgwork> maxamillion: this is not really a uspport channel
[01:09] <Burgwork> try #ubuntu+1
[01:09] <ajmitch> hi Burgwork 
[01:09] <Burgwork> hey ajmitch
[01:09] <ajmitch> hopefully it'll get into sid soon, since it's in unstable now
[01:09] <maxamillion> Burgwork: this isn't a support question, i am aware of the different channels ... i just figured upgrade issues due to a package naming scheme altercation or restructure might be on topic in a devel channel
[01:10] <Burgwork> asking about issues of upgrading are a support question
[01:10] <maxamillion> Burgwork: and i was wondering the reportings of a developer on the topic
[01:10] <Burgwork> if you run into an issue, file a bug
[01:10] <ajmitch> Burgwork: btw the hit count on those authtool images is > 11K now :)
[01:11] <Burgwork> yep
[01:11] <Burgwork> I need a blog with comments turned on
[01:12] <maxamillion> Burgwork: no, i need to be able to upgrade a large number of computers on a college campus, this isn't a "try and find out" situation ... i am asking if there was a structural change in the packages that have to do with the codec feature change that might give an issue with upgrading (which i don't plan to do until feisty is stable) .... its just a question
[01:12] <ajmitch> most useful part of krb5 1.6 that I saw, is an LDAP KDB plugin
[01:13] <Burgwork> maxamillion: a large upgrade. Given most of the computers are likely the same, I would simply try a computer
[01:13] <maxamillion> Burgwork: and i don't feel it would be something that could be answered by anyone but a devel ... or possibly a motu
[01:13] <Burgwork> it is a goal to have computers upgrade easily and bug if they don't
[01:13] <Burgwork> as such, you merely need to test it
[01:13] <maxamillion> fair enough
[01:14] <Burgwork> even if I told you there were no issues, I would still test it
[01:14] <Burgwork> as I have no idea what custom software you have installed
[01:14] <Burgwork> usually that is the stuff that messes up upgrades
[03:18] <_ion> benc: Seems like i managed to modify the restricted modules themselves (*.mod.c, which are then built to *.mod.o and linked to *.ko on bootup) in the l-r-m debian/rules so that they list PCI IDs accurately. I'll test a bit more after sleeping. Since i'm modifying a *generated* file (*.mod.c), i don't think there should be any license problems.
[03:18] <BenC> _ion: ok
[03:19] <_ion> benc: The result is that e.g. 'modinfo nvidia' shows the correct list.
[03:19] <_ion> Good night. 
[03:24] <BenC> _ion: It also means that udev will autoload the nvidia kernel module, which may not be what we want
[04:26] <mpt> asac, New Zealand
[04:34] <Amaranth> BenC: I thought the nvidia kernel driver was mostly harmless if you don't use the X driver
[04:34] <BenC> Amaranth: it taints the kernel
[04:34] <Amaranth> well, yes
[04:34] <mjg59> And fucks power management
[04:35] <Amaranth> even if it's not being used?
[04:35] <mjg59> "Oh, I'm going to poke registers now!"
[04:35] <mjg59> Yes
[04:35] <mjg59> Hateful thing
[04:35] <Amaranth> ick
[04:35] <Amaranth> go go nouveau
[04:36] <desrt> god
[04:36] <Amaranth> i can't believe they still haven't fixed the problems with textures
[04:36] <Amaranth> it even breaks on VT switch
[04:36] <desrt> you think they could have just uploaded a new version of the single specific piece of evo that was actually affected
[04:36] <Amaranth> told them about it, they said they thought it was already fixed but would look at it
[04:36] <Amaranth> that was in november...
[04:37] <jamesh_> Amaranth: obviously you don't matter.
[04:37] <Amaranth> I guess not
[04:37] <Amaranth> nvidia hates bling!
[04:38] <Amaranth> because, you know, having more people actually have a use for your hardware is horrible
[04:39] <jamesh> Amaranth: maybe if you bought 100 Quadros, they might care more
[07:21] <fabbione> morning
[07:21] <LaserJock> hi fabbione 
[07:21] <ajmitch> hi 
[08:09] <Ademan> who develops libdvdcss2? the first 150 google hits looked like tutorials on how to install it in ubuntu as opposed to a project page...
[08:10] <mjg59> It was part of the videolan project at some point, I believe
[08:11] <RAOF> I think it still is.  It hasn't changed much recently (as in the last couple of year) though.
[08:11] <Ademan> i'm just getting rather frustrated that certain dvds refuse to be played
[08:12] <RAOF> I think there's actually a newer DVD copy protection which isn't broken by libdvdcss2?
[08:12] <Ademan> most likely
[08:13] <torkel> Ademan: http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html
[08:14] <Ademan> appreciated torkel.  What then is libdvdcss2? just a different naming scheme for the package? (iirc incompatible versions had to have the version number on the actual package?)
[08:16] <Ademan> wow.... latest entry in the changelog was 2005 ....
[08:16] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  It's pretty much stable :)
[08:17] <Ademan> heh, well there's no alternative for decrypting dvds is there?
[08:19] <LaserJock> I could be totally wrong but I thought gstreamer had a plugin for it that wasn't libdvdcss
[08:19] <Ademan> i'll take a look
[08:21] <Ademan> also what are the legal implications of using libdvdcss?  i was digging around, and at least wikipedia seemed to suggest taht you can't play ANY encrypted dvds on ANY computer, how then, was i able to play my dvds on windows media player way back when?  Did microsoft pay a fee or something for that?
[08:22] <RAOF> Ademan: Yes, microsoft (or rather, the DVD playing software company) paid a fee.
[08:23] <Ademan> that's pretty messed up...
[08:23] <RAOF> (It's actually one of the reasons why the original Xbox didn't have DVD playback without the remote - a significant part of the cost of the remote was licensing all the necessary stuff)
[08:23] <RAOF> Ademan: See "I can patent what you're thinking" :(
[08:24] <Mithrandir> Ademan: I wouldn't recommend asking random people on IRC for legal advice, and any implications of libdvdcss depends on where you live.
[08:25] <Ademan> Mithrandir: true, but i'm making the assumption that most people in here are either from america, australia, canada or the uk, where i assume these sorts of laws are similar
[08:25] <superm1> has there been any known legal battles related to libdvdcss2 yet?
[08:25] <RAOF> superm1: You mean, apart from the huge "DVD John" lawsuit?
[08:25] <Ademan> no, but i don't think any commercial entity has been distributing libdvdcss2 yet
[08:25] <Ademan> i mean, it's not in universe or multiverse is it?
[08:25] <RAOF> No.
[08:26] <Ademan> probably for good reason
[08:26] <superm1> RAOF, i didn't realize that there was a DVD john lawsuit, i just knew of him
[08:26] <RAOF> Because, at least for USA, it's pretty much the *definition* of the something illegal under the DMCA :)
[08:28] <Ademan> RAOF: libdvdcss2? or what DVD john was doing?
[08:28] <RAOF> libdvdcss2
[08:28] <RAOF> Although also what DVD John was doing.
[08:28] <RAOF> Incidentally, wasn't he sued *twice* in Sweden?
[08:31] <torkel> RAOF: why should he have been sued in Sweden?
[08:32] <Mithrandir> torkel: because people from the US have trouble distinguishing between European countries and misspell our names? :-P
[08:33] <RAOF> Actually, I'd just forgotten where he actuall came from, and Sweden seemed a reasonalbe candidate.
[08:34] <Ademan> lol
[08:34] <torkel> Mithrandir: or they still believe that we are one country...
[08:35] <Mithrandir> torkel: yeah, that only changed a hundred-odd years ago so it's clearly reasonable.
[08:50] <Amaranth> RAOF: It was Norway :)
[08:51] <RAOF> Amaranth: :-\
[08:51] <Amaranth> btw, jon is a pretty cool guy :)
[08:52] <Amaranth> Mithrandir, torkel: I don't know where they are but I know they exist ;)
[09:17] <pitti> Good morning
[09:17] <Hobbsee> heya pitti!
[09:18] <Mithrandir> morning pitti, Hobbsee 
[09:18] <Burgundavia> morning pitti, Hobbsee, Mithrandir
[09:18] <ajmitch> hi pitti, Mithrandir 
[09:18] <Hobbsee> heya Mithrandir, Burgundavia
[09:18] <Hobbsee> why are you bouncing, Mithrandir?
[09:19] <pitti> hey Mithrandir, Burgundavia, ajmitch
[09:20] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:23] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just general happiness
[09:23] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: fair enough
[09:27] <Burgundavia> pitti: has asterisk ever be considered for main before?
[09:28] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: yes, he's not happy with it unless somebody takes responsibility for it.
[09:28] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: ah. What were the specific issues?
[09:28] <Mithrandir> general complexity, AIUI.
[09:28] <ajmitch> lack of reponsible person to jump in & fix bugs?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:29] <Burgundavia> it currently only has 4 bugs filed against it in LP
[09:29] <Mithrandir> asterisk: MainInclusionReportAsterisk (requires dedicated maintainer, possibly in conjunction with a spec)
[09:29] <Mithrandir> is what it says
[09:29] <Mithrandir> and the longer comment is MartinPitt: This package is complex and vulnerability-prone enough to require someone who knows the package well and commits to maintain it for a longer term. If there is an approved Ubuntu specification that requires this package, then I will reconsider, but for now I rather want to not burn our hands with it.
[09:30] <Burgundavia> right, found it
[09:30] <Burgundavia> ok, I looked right at that and didn't see it when I searchef ro it
[09:31] <poningru> hmm
[09:36] <dholbach> hellas
[09:53] <RAOF> pitti: About bug #95814 again:  I un-duplicated it then re-added the need-amd64-retrace tag.  The apport-retrace service has removed the tag, but still hasn't generated a stacktrace.
[09:53] <ubotu> Malone bug 95814 in banshee "[apport]  banshee.exe crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95814
[09:53] <RAOF> Is there anything else I should do, or just wait for Banshee to crash again and file a whole new bug?
[09:53] <pitti> RAOF: let me look into the log
[09:53] <RAOF> Thanks.
[09:55] <pitti> RAOF: ah, it became a victim of a package installation bug that I fixed yesterday; can you please try again?
[09:55] <pitti> RAOF: I'll watch the log, and if it still fails, I'll investigate
[09:55] <RAOF> As in, re-add the tag?  Certainly.
[09:55] <pitti> RAOF: right; thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience; still lots of bugs to fix :/
[09:55] <dholbach> tepsipakki: do you know if there are any complaints about i810 spinning cpu with cairo apps? I'm asking because jokosher upstream asked me, when I filed bug 96441
[09:55] <ubotu> Malone bug 96441 in jokosher "timer updates use too much CPU" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96441
[09:55] <RAOF> That's OK.  I'm not sure if the stacktrace will help me at all, anyway.  I just know that a stacktrace containing nothing but () in ?? won't help me, either :)
[10:00] <siretart> Mithrandir: could you have a look at bug #91676? is the debdiff okay for feisty?
[10:00] <ubotu> Malone bug 91676 in wpasupplicant "wpa_supplicant crashes in: wpa_supplicant_dbus_notify_state_change (wpa_s=)" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91676
[10:00] <Mithrandir> siretart: looking
[10:01] <Mithrandir> siretart: you've used and tested it a bit yourself?
[10:02] <tepsipakki> dholbach: there is a bug about general sluggishness.. you could try downgrading libx11 and see if that makes it better
[10:02] <sabdfl> racebetween mscompress and foo2js been reported?
[10:03] <pitti> sabdfl: yes, and fixed already
[10:03] <sabdfl> thanks pitti
[10:03] <siretart> Mithrandir: I'm currently using the 0.6 branch, but I'm going to test it on my girlfriends notebook. I wasn't able to reproduce the crasher myself
[10:03] <dholbach> tepsipakki: i've had the problem for quite a while now - not sure if downgrading libx11 would help - it's generally fine, it's just this one case that makes jokosher unusable for me :-/
[10:03] <siretart> Mithrandir: the update I'm proposing is to update to the latest version of the stable branch
[10:03] <siretart> the 0.6 branch is the experimental one
[10:03] <Mithrandir> siretart: yes, I understood that.  Do you have the upstream changelog somewhere?
[10:04] <siretart> Mithrandir: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6917891/changelog.diff
[10:04] <tepsipakki> dholbach: do you use EXA?
[10:05] <dholbach> tepsipakki: do I use it if it's not mentioned in xorg.conf?
[10:05] <Mithrandir> siretart: looks good to me, go ahead.
[10:05] <tepsipakki> dholbach: no :)
[10:05] <dholbach> tepsipakki: ok
[10:05] <siretart> k thanks
[10:05] <tepsipakki> dholbach: see bug 88815
[10:05] <ubotu> Malone bug 88815 in xorg-server "Sluggish rendering since xorg 7.2 update" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88815
[10:07] <dholbach> tepsipakki: I think I had the problem before (jokosher not keeping up with recording)
[10:10] <RAOF> pitti: That worked, thanks.  Man, mono stacktraces aren't particularly informative :/
[10:11] <tepsipakki> dholbach: you mean before 7.2 landed?
[10:11] <dholbach> tepsipakki: yeah
[10:12] <pitti> RAOF: indeed, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApportMonoCrashes
[10:23] <dholbach> kwwii: are these icons wrong:
[10:23] <dholbach> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/devices/gnome-dev-trash-full.svg
[10:23] <dholbach> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/devices/gnome-dev-trash-empty.svg
[10:24] <kwwii> dholbach: nope, those and the CDs seem to be correct
[10:24] <kwwii> and exist as SVGs
[10:24] <kwwii> dholbach: but it is a bigger problem than that
[10:24] <kwwii> dholbach: it appears to use the 48x48 icons and then scale them up
[10:25] <dholbach> kwwii: why does it work nicely with the 'folders'?
[10:25] <kwwii> dholbach: ahhhh, that would be because 48x48 is the biggest pixmap version that exists
[10:26] <kwwii> dholbach: not sure I get you on that 
[10:26] <dholbach> kwwii: if I scale folders they scale nicely
[10:26] <dholbach> kwwii: it uses the svg there
[10:26] <dholbach> ahhhh
[10:26] <dholbach> could it be this:
[10:26] <dholbach> [48x48/filesystems] 
[10:26] <dholbach> Size=48
[10:26] <dholbach> Context=filesystems
[10:26] <dholbach> Type=Scalable
[10:27] <dholbach> in /usr/share/icons/Human/index.theme ?
[10:29] <kwwii> dholbach: I think so, I am going to try removing it and see what happens
[10:30] <_ion> benc: The nvidia module *already* has aliases that match to *all* nVidia VGA cards. I'm just making them more accurate.
[10:30] <dholbach> kwwii: change to Fixed and be sure to either remove /usr/share/icons/Human/icon-theme.cache or run sudo gtk-update-icon-cache /usr/share/icons/Human
[10:32] <seb128> you need to "sudo touch /usr/share/icons/Human" before running the update
[10:34] <kwwii> dholbach: hrm, that did not appear to change anything
[10:40] <kwwii> dholbach: freaky man...I have no idea why nautilus is doing that
[10:41] <kwwii> dholbach: but it does not use any of the SVGs it appears...either that or it prerenders them and then uses a smaller version
[10:41] <kwwii> dholbach: but when you create the cache it only packs the pngs into it, or?
[10:42] <kwwii> dholbach: it cannot be rendering the svgs as it takes only a few milliseonds to create that cache file
[10:42] <dholbach> kwwii: it uses the svgs too
[10:42] <dholbach> kwwii: i can scale a folder to a huge size and it looks nicely
[10:43] <kwwii> dholbach: yeah...here too..but in the information pane in nautilus it refuses to use them it appears
[10:43] <dholbach> hmhm
[10:44] <dholbach> did you restart nautilus or use ctrl-r to repaint?
[10:44] <kwwii> I was testing it by loggin in as a different user
[10:45] <seb128> kwwii: pane probably uses 16x16
[10:45] <kwwii> seb128: it appears to use 48x48 
[10:45] <seb128> weird
[10:45] <kwwii> seb128: do you know if that is hardcoded somehow?
[10:46] <seb128> pane using 48x48, no way
[10:46] <seb128> no, it's not
[10:46] <kwwii> I think it uses 48x48 because it only looks sharp at that size
[10:46] <seb128> they use the gtk_icon_theme API
[10:46] <seb128> how do I reproduce the bug?
[10:46] <kwwii> open nautilus and change the pane on the left from places to information
[10:46] <seb128> ah
[10:48] <seb128> $ strace -e open nautilus ~/Desktop 2>&1 | grep icon | grep desktop
[10:48] <seb128> open("/usr/share/nautilus/ui/nautilus-desktop-icon-view-ui.xml", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 21
[10:48] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/places/gnome-fs-desktop.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 21
[10:48] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/48x48/emblems/emblem-desktop.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 23
[10:48] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/emblems/emblem-desktop.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 21
[10:49] <seb128> 
[10:49] <seb128> looks like it's using "/usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/places/gnome-fs-desktop.png",
[10:49] <seb128> ah no
[10:49] <kwwii> seb128: try going to the trash with that
[10:49] <seb128> there is 2 icons in the pane
[10:49] <kwwii> the trash icon and the CD icon exist as SVGs, so it should use those, no?
[10:51] <seb128> right, trying to figure what it's doing
[10:53] <seb128> kwwii: I've no svg trash icon
[10:53] <seb128> is it supposed to be part of the current theme?
[10:55] <dholbach> seb128: /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/devices/gnome-dev-trash-{empty,full}.svg ?
[10:55] <kwwii> dholbach: hehe, you are quicker than I :-)
[10:55] <seb128> $ strace -e open nautilus trash: 2>&1 | grep trash
[10:55] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/places/user-trash.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 24
[10:55] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/places/user-trash.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 24
[10:55] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/48x48/places/user-trash.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 24
[10:55] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/48x48/status/user-trash-full.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 28
[10:55] <seb128> open("/usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/status/user-trash-full.png", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 28
[10:55] <seb128> 
[10:55] <seb128> it looks for user-trash
[10:55] <dholbach> ok
[10:55] <seb128> and user-trash-full
[10:55] <dholbach> i'm happy to rename them
[10:55] <seb128> I think that's the new spec naming
[10:55] <seb128> no?
[10:56] <dholbach> icon-theme pain
[10:56] <kwwii> that would only make it miss the icon in other places, or?
[10:56] <seb128> kwwii: we need symlink from one name to the other so it works for apps using the old and new naming
[10:56] <dholbach> seb128: we should rename them
[10:56] <kwwii> dholbach: but still the other icons do not exist as SVGs...is there any chance of finding some source files for those?
[10:57] <dholbach> kwwii: no, the SVGs were created separately - don't ask
[10:57] <seb128> confirmed
[10:57] <seb128> sudo cp ./scalable/devices/gnome-dev-trash-full.svg scalable/places/user-trash-full.svg
[10:57] <dholbach> seb128, kwwii: thanks for figuring that out
[10:57] <kwwii> dholbach:  ;-)
[10:57] <seb128> with that the trahs full icon is all nice
[10:57] <dholbach> nice
[10:57] <dholbach> yooho
[10:57] <seb128> dholbach: np
[11:00] <dholbach> kwwii: I have the feeling we have to rename a bunch of those svg files in that directory
[11:00] <seb128> you might want to consider the symlink also
[11:00] <seb128> because there is apps around still using the old naming
[11:00] <dholbach> seb128: it will automatically get generated
[11:00] <seb128> rock&roll then ;)
[11:00] <dholbach> user-trash will generated 5 other symlinks inclunding gnome-dev-*
[11:01] <seb128> using naming-utils?
[11:01] <dholbach> yes
[11:01] <seb128> k
[11:01] <dholbach> just not the other way round :9
[11:01] <seb128> ah ok
[11:07] <kwwii> dholbach: for feisty+1 we should look into using only the new naming scheme, or?
[11:08] <dholbach> kwwii: sure, I even wrote a script to rename the icons - could be that I need to look into fixing it again
[11:08] <dholbach> kwwii: or hand it over to you
[11:08] <dholbach> :-)
[11:08] <kwwii> hehe :-)
[11:09] <kwwii> ahhh, you can almost smell the love in the room
[11:09] <dholbach> exactly
[11:11] <seb128> why for feisty+1?
[11:11] <seb128> Do we want blurry icons for feisty? ;)
[11:17] <kwwii> lol
[11:17] <kwwii> guess not
[11:41] <ogra> s/upload/update indeed
[11:42] <pitti> ogra: pc105/us FTW :)
[11:42] <ogra> meh
[11:42] <ogra> i want mz german one back
[11:42] <ogra> grrr
[11:42] <Mithrandir> qwertz ftw!
[11:42] <ogra> *my
[11:43] <ogra> xorg.conf is fine, /etc/default/console-setup seems ok as well ... but no win
[11:44] <shawarma> ogra: Gnome might override it.. Is it broken at the gdm login prompt, too?
[11:44] <ogra> hmm, i didnt check ...
[11:46] <pitti> ogra_: System -> Einstellungen -> Tastatur?
[11:48] <ogra> so it is a gnome thing then ....
[11:48] <shawarma> 11:46 < pitti> ogra_: System -> Einstellungen -> Tastatur?
[11:48] <ogra> seb128, do zou know anzthing about lost kezmaps 
[11:48] <shawarma> ogra: LOL
[11:48] <seb128> ogra: list when?
[11:49] <seb128> lost
[11:49] <seb128> new install? update?
[11:49] <ogra> update
[11:49] <seb128> of what package?
[11:49] <ogra> heh, about 247 packages, dont ask which ... but i have the right map in gdm ...
[11:49] <seb128> gconftool -g /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd/layouts
[11:49] <fabbione> pkl_: ping?
[11:50] <tkamppeter> Is here some gnome crasher expert around? There is a 64-bit-only crasher which many users have reported: bug 91218
[11:50] <ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
[11:50] <ogra> i didnt update since last herd ... until zesterdaz
[11:50] <tkamppeter> It has 13 duplicates.
[11:50] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ gconftool -g /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd/layouts
[11:50] <ogra> [de     nodeadkeys,us   intl] 
[11:50] <ogra> looks fine to me
[11:50] <Mithrandir> ogra: does "setxkbmap de" fix it?
[11:50] <ogra> ah, yes
[11:51] <ogra> thanks, feels much better to have the y in the right place :)
[11:52] <seb128> ogra: does it happen again after a new login?
[11:53] <ogra> i'll try
[11:54] <ogra> seb128, yes
[11:54] <seb128> ogra: could you try to downgrade libxklavier to 3.1?
[11:54] <ogra> sure
[11:58] <ogra> hmm, only 3.0 in the archive
[11:58] <ogra> seb128, would that do it as well ?
[11:58] <dholbach> LP should have some more versions
[11:58] <seb128> ogra_: should be fine
[11:58] <seb128> dholbach: LP has all the source versions but not the binaries, no?
[11:59] <dholbach> I think it does
[11:59] <ogra> i was as well having the impression it only has source ...
[11:59] <cjwatson> LP has the binaries too if available
[11:59] <seb128> cjwatson: "if available"?
[12:00] <cjwatson> if built
[12:00] <shawarma> seb128: if they built properly.
[12:00] <seb128> ah
[12:00] <seb128> they are not one https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxklavier/3.1-0ubuntu1
[12:00] <cjwatson> follow the "Builds of ..." links
[12:00] <seb128> you have download links for the .dsc the .changes and the tarball
[12:00] <cjwatson> e.g. https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/308300
[12:00] <dholbach> yeah, it has them
[12:01] <seb128> ah ok
[12:01] <seb128> I've been tricked by the nice LP UI again ;)
[12:01] <seb128> cjwatson: thank you
[12:01] <tepsipakki> was there a console version of update-manager?
[12:01] <cjwatson> then "Resulting binaries" as beta.lp hides it by default
[12:02] <seb128> tkamppeter: I'll try having a look later
[12:02] <ogra> seb128, 3.0 fixes it
[12:02] <seb128> ogra: https://beta.launchpad.net/+builds/+build/308300/libxklavier11
[12:02] <seb128> ok
[12:02] <seb128> so it's a 3.2 regression
[12:02] <seb128> could you try with 3.1 to be sure?
[12:02] <seb128> I'll ping svu about it
[12:02] <pitti> hmm, when gdm is running I cannot use ctrl+alt+fn any more; is that just me?
[12:03] <seb128> ogra: could you open an libxklavier bug with gconftool -R /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd attached?
[12:03] <seb128> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/97060
[12:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 97060 in gdm "Can't switch VT from GDM" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:05] <cjwatson> how did wow, how did gdm manage to break that?
[12:06] <seb128> good question
[12:06] <iwj> Yay!  udevd --verbose output for a case where bug 75681 happened!
[12:06] <ubotu> Malone bug 75681 in mdadm "boot-time race condition initializing md" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75681
[12:06] <seb128> the weird things is that it was happening on my laptop and not my desktop some time ago
[12:06] <pitti> argh, switch off != logout  /me hates this logout dialog
[12:06] <seb128> I'll need to try again on my desktop
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks for the gdm bug pointer
[12:07] <seb128> np
[12:07] <seb128> pitti: maybe set /apps/panel/global/upstream_session
[12:07] <seb128> pitti: that's the "2 normal dialog" way from upstream
[12:08] <seb128> you might like it better ;)
[12:08] <pitti> seb128: ah, I just need to look more carefully :)
[12:10] <ogra> seb128, bug 97342 for you
[12:10] <ubotu> Malone bug 97342 in libxklavier "keymap support regression between version 3.1 and 3.2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97342
[12:10] <seb128> ogra: danke
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: indeed, that upstream default looks pretty ugly, too, but at least it's clearly separated
[12:11] <pitti> s/, too//
[12:14] <iwj> pitti: Would you care to formally approve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportSlModem ?
[12:16] <pitti> iwj: oh, sure
[12:17] <pitti> iwj: thanks for the derootification, that makes me happy :)
[12:17] <pitti> iwj: shall I move it to restricted right away?
[12:28] <pitti> mvo: hm, displayconfig-gtk's 'test' with a slightly lower resolution and no other changes just wrecked X and forced me to reboot :/
[12:28] <pitti> mvo: I want to take a look at the xorg.conf mangling code
[12:28] <pitti> mvo: how stable/tested is this?
[12:29] <mvo> pitti: the test changed your original xorg.conf? that sounds like a evil bug. it should write a temp xorg file
[12:29] <pitti> mvo: no, it didn't
[12:29] <pitti> mvo: my screen went black, ctrl+alt+fn didn't help either
[12:29] <mvo> pitti: the xorg rewrite code is used in guidance as the default kbuuntu mangling thing. its should be well tested
[12:30] <pitti> mvo: xorgconfig.py seems to be pretty isolated (no unusal imports)
[12:30] <pitti> thus I ponder stealing it and using it in r-m
[12:30] <Mithrandir> doko: there's something broken in OOo on amd64; see bug 93758
[12:30] <ubotu> Malone bug 93758 in openoffice.org-amd64 "Openoffice excessive memory useage" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93758
[12:30] <mvo> feel free
[12:30] <pitti> I just get too many bug reports about using debconf and not supporting custom xorg.conf
[12:34] <mvo> pitti: if you want to copy it, I can puslish my "upstream" bzr branch. that is the svn import of the releavent files that I keep up-to-date
[12:35] <pitti> mvo: in the long term, the best would probably be to split this into a separate packge which guidance, displayconfig-gtk, and r-m use
[12:35] <mvo> pitti: I talked with upstrema about this already and suggested the same. but they want to concentrate on the release and do the split after the release
[12:36] <mvo> pitti: maybe we could convince them with a patch though .)
[12:36] <pitti> right, that's fine
[12:36] <pitti> for Feisty, just copying the file WFM
[12:36] <tkamppeter> seb128, thanks.
[12:37] <seb128> np
[12:38] <pitti> mvo: urgh, it changes whitespace and case heavily
[12:38] <iwj> pitti: Yes, thanks.
[12:43] <doko> Mithrandir: should be fixed with the next upload
[12:43] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, great. :-)
[12:46] <Mithrandir> StevenK: soyuz has done some strange stuff tonight, cprov is looking at it.
[12:47] <StevenK> Right.
[12:49] <tkamppeter> doko, pitti, WDYT about turning on browsing/broadcasting in CUPS by default (see bug 68256)?
[12:49] <ubotu> Malone bug 68256 in cupsys "kde: Openoffice doesn't see remote cups printers, just generic printer" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68256
[12:49] <pitti> tkamppeter: not for Feisty any more; for that we need to rework the Gnome print dialog to clearly separate browsed from local printers
[12:53] <tkamppeter> pitti, is it not easier and with less risk to break anything to change 3 or 4 lines in cupsd.conf than doing changes on the gnome-cups-manager which will disappear in Feisty+1?
[12:54] <tkamppeter> gnome-cups-manager is crashing enough currently.
[12:54] <pitti> tkamppeter: changes on g-c-m? It can already enable browsing with a single click
[12:55] <tkamppeter> You told "rework the Gnome print dialog" and this looked like you were thinking about modifying g-c-m in some way.
[12:55] <pitti> no, libgnomeprintui
[12:56] <tkamppeter> is libgnomeprintui not one of the dieing thingies, too? Is it not on the way to be replaced by the GTK 2.10.x printing infrastructure?
[12:57] <pitti> right
[12:57] <pitti> that then
[12:58] <tkamppeter> So we should only fix the crashers for Feisty: bug 91218, bug 95137, bug 83647, bug 79077
[12:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
[12:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 95137 in gnome-cups-manager "[apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95137
[12:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 83647 in gnome-cups-manager "crash while editing panel" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83647
[12:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 79077 in gnome-cups-manager "Adding new printer failed on Ubuntu 6.10 Amd64" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79077
[12:59] <tkamppeter> and then let g-c-m and libgnomeprintui RIP.
[12:59] <pitti> yep
[01:01] <tkamppeter> And I think switching defaults of a program is no danger for the Feisty release. Many users have probably already turned on broadcasting (including me) and they did not report bugs about something going wrong with it...
[01:02] <tkamppeter> ... and turning broadcasting off again is as easy as turning it on in Edgy, via the button in the g-c-m you mentioned, and the web interface has such a button, too.
[01:02] <doko> tkamppeter: could you have a look at bug 83950 ?
[01:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 83950 in openoffice.org "feisty openoffice crash" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83950
[01:08] <tkamppeter> doko, for me it looks like the following: OOo is reading out information about page sizes and margins from the printer's PPD file. It polls the PPD file through the CUPS API (I hope so) and parses it. Now some PPD files (especially manufacturer-supplied ones, unfortunately) are not 100% Adobe-compliant (check with cupstestppd) and it seems that OOo does not handle this problem gracefully. Bug is in OOo, OOo must be more tolerant on not 
[01:08] <tkamppeter> so perfect PPDs or at least not crash in such a case (and Brother should make better PPDs).
[01:15] <seb128> ogra: could you reply to the comment on the libxklavier bug?
[01:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, still there?
[01:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, I am
[01:16] <tkamppeter> what about switching browsing/broadcasting on by default?
[01:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: <pitti> tkamppeter: not for Feisty any more; for that we need to rework the Gnome print dialog to clearly separate browsed from local printers
[01:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: the issue is that otherwise it is way too easy to fool people to print to a different printer than they intend to
[01:17] <pitti> because the print ui doesn't tell them apart
[01:18] <tkamppeter> Yes, printerdrake is clearly putting them into two tabs.
[01:18] <pitti> g-c-m has different icons for them, but that's not the point
[01:18] <pitti> the point is the gnome/KDE printer dialog in applications
[01:19] <tkamppeter> You mean the print dialogs in the apps?
[01:19] <pitti> they need to make a difference between "This is a locally configured printer that I can trust" and "This is a remote printer that could be anything"
[01:19] <tkamppeter> So I should talk with the OpenUsability group which is working on the common grand unified print dialog about this issue?
[01:19] <pitti> tkamppeter: that would indeed be nice
[01:20] <pitti> since eventually the world will move to the xdg dialogs
[01:20] <seb128> what xdg dialogs?
[01:20] <TheMuso> mvo: Is ubuntu-restricted-extras maintained in bzr?
[01:20] <seb128> the GTK API is all new and I doubt GNOME moves to anything else
[01:20] <tkamppeter> Yes, their dialogs will end up as XDG/Portland dialog.
[01:21] <Riddell> isn't the point that xdg just pops up the appropriate gnome or kde dialogue?
[01:21] <Riddell> one dialogue for both seems like something you'll never get agreement on
[01:21] <tkamppeter> Pitti, will you be on the LinuxTag in Berlin? There will be the next meeting of the OpenUsability Printing GUI team, I am organizing it.
[01:22] <pitti> I'm not sure yet
[01:22] <tkamppeter> It is sponsored by the Linux Foundation.
[01:22] <tkamppeter> Ridell, it will be the following:
[01:23] <tkamppeter> The OU people will design a dialog layout which will be implemented once with Qt/KDE and once with GTK/GNOME.
[01:23] <ogra> what is http://search.ubuntu.com ? thats where yelp sends me, the server refuses connections
[01:24] <Riddell> tkamppeter: good luck to them :)
[01:24] <ogra> Burgwork, ^^^ (ar any other docteam member)
[01:24] <ogra> *or
[01:24] <tkamppeter> Depending on whether the user's desktop is KDE or GNOME the appropriate dialog will be used, independent of whether the app is KDE or GNOME.
[01:25] <tkamppeter> So digikam started in GNOME will show the GNOME flavor of the printing dialog (and of all other dialogs handled by Portland).
[01:26] <mooey> what is responsible for mounting usb disks? triaging a bug where a single usb disk shows up twice, i need to file it against the correct package
[01:26] <Keybuk> cjwatson: installer question if you've got a mo?
[01:26] <Keybuk> I can't seem to do anything but cancel the install at this point
[01:26] <mvo> TheMuso: no, its not maintained in bzr
[01:27] <TheMuso> mvo: Thanks. Just wanted to be sure before I do anything with it.
[01:27] <mvo> TheMuso: what do you plan to do with it?
[01:28] <TheMuso> mvo: A bug was filed to update the java packages to java6. It was marked as a bytesize/packaging bug for MOTU people.
[01:28] <TheMuso> SO I'm sponsoring the upload.
[01:28] <TheMuso> Unless you'd rather take care of it?
[01:29] <mvo> TheMuso: good point, please do it!
[01:30] <TheMuso> mvo: Ok will do.
[01:31] <Keybuk> oh, wow, it unblocked
[01:31] <Keybuk> cjwatson: so, err, the "Migrating Users and Settings" thing can take a very long time to run <g>
[01:31] <cjwatson> Keybuk: fixed post-beta - it was running depmod
[01:32] <cjwatson> (don't ask, it was a daft bug)
[01:32] <ogra> Keybuk, i just recently got a patch for usbfloppy support in ltspfs (a udev rule addition) and was wondering why we dont handle these from udevs files already ...
[01:32] <cjwatson> try upgrading os-prober and running through it again - bet it'll be faster
[01:32] <cjwatson> if it isn't, poke evand :)
[01:33] <Keybuk> cjwatson: ok :p
[01:33] <Keybuk> ogra: -v please
[01:33] <ogra> +ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", DRIVERS=="usb-storage", \ 
[01:33] <ogra> +     ATTRS{interface}=="FLOPPY", KERNEL=="sd*", \
[01:33] <ogra> +     RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/sbin/modprobe ide_floppy; /lib/udev/add_fstab_entry %k auto'"
[01:33] <Keybuk> cjwatson: not really worried, if it's fixed, I was just making a new test install for fixing some bugs
[01:34] <Keybuk> ogra: ?
[01:34] <ogra> thats what i got ... i find the modprobe from a rule particulary ugly ... so i didnt accept it for now
[01:34] <Keybuk> why is ide-floppy loaded?
[01:34] <Keybuk> that's for ATAPI/PATA floppy devices
[01:34] <ogra> it creates a floppy device instead of sdX
[01:34] <ogra> right, thats why i didnt accept it 
[01:35] <Keybuk> bet it doesn't
[01:35] <Keybuk> ide-floppy makes hd* devices
[01:35] <Keybuk> sd* is right for a usb floppy device
[01:35] <ogra> doesnt ide floppy make fd devices as well ?
[01:35] <Keybuk> no
[01:36] <Keybuk> fd* devices are only the standard PC floppy thing
[01:36] <ogra> ah, ok
[01:36] <ogra> well, the automounter in ltspfs needs to recognize its a floppy to handle it like one :)
[01:36] <Keybuk> that's just a ltspfs automounter bug then :p
[01:37] <ogra> well :)
[01:37] <ogra> indeed 
[01:37] <ogra> nobody of the devs has usbfloppies apart from the one i have which BenC didnt get working with the kernel ...
[01:38] <iwj> I have a usb floppy.
[01:38] <ogra> a working one ? 
[01:38] <iwj> How should a floppy be handled differently compared to a USB stick ?
[01:38] <iwj> Yes.
[01:38] <iwj> Well, it worked last time I used it.
[01:39] <TheMuso> I also have a USB floppy if testing/info is needed.
[01:39] <ogra> the unmounting in ltspfs is handled differently .... 
[01:39] <iwj> ogra: How/why ?
[01:39] <ogra> TheMuso, not this release cycle anymore
[01:39] <ogra> it would be a fairly big change for a new feature :)
[01:39] <TheMuso> ogra: Ah ok.
[01:40] <Treenaks> did something change in edgy to make suspend buttons suddenly work? I've had to help two colleagues whose "screensaver" buttons (as defined in gnome-keybinding-properties) suddenly triggered suspend..
[01:41] <ogra> iwj, well, the floppies we handled until now dont get plugged inh on the fly for example, they are handled as static devices ... usb floppies are rather something hybrid between floppy and usbstick ... the automounter only sees it as usbdisk
[01:41] <ogra> so we dont get the right icon for example ... 
[01:42] <Keybuk> ogra: bet you 5 that there's no insert notification <g>
[01:42] <ogra> there might be technical drawbacks as well, but thats sbalneav land, he's doing the floppy part in ltspfs
[01:42] <ogra> Keybuk, on usbfloppies there is ... if you plug in the usb ...
[01:43] <iwj> Keybuk: No, I think you get the medium change stuff.  SCSI certainly has stuff to allow that and ISTR it showing up.
[01:43] <Treenaks> ogra: not if you poke a disc in to the drive? (like USB memory cards into a cardreader.. that works)
[01:43] <ogra> Treenaks, if udev gets a trigger it will ... 
[01:43] <Keybuk> iwj: probably depends on the device
[01:43] <Treenaks> probably depends on the hardware
[01:43] <Keybuk> usb devices are usually no expense spent
[01:43] <ogra> ltspfs only works through udev and a cdrom monitor 
[01:44] <cjwatson> Keybuk: well, it's possible that something else is taking time
[01:45] <cjwatson> Keybuk: so I'd like to know that the os-prober fix is enough
[01:56] <pochu> Mithrandir: re: liferea (bug 97182 if you can) :)
[01:56] <ubotu> Malone bug 97182 in liferea "[UVFe]  liferea 1.2.10" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97182
[01:58] <Mithrandir> pochu: approved.
[01:58] <Mithrandir> pochu: note that since liferea is in main, the correct procedure is to subscribe ubuntu-release, not motu-uvf
[02:02] <pochu> I haven't subscribed them, but thanks!
[02:27] <pitti> mvo: that works surprisingly well, and it would fix about 15 bugs in r-m (including duplicates)
[02:28] <pitti> mvo: I have an -xorgconf branch now which uses that kdeguidance python module
[02:28] <pitti> mvo: would you be willing to give it a quick test with your ati card?
[02:32] <pitti> seb128, ogra: would you have a few minutes to test a new r-m? I changed it now to modify xorg.conf directly, and also to restore it cleanly
[02:33] <seb128> pitti: sure
[02:33] <pitti> mvo, seb128, ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/restricted-manager_0.15_all.deb
[02:38] <seb128> pitti: do you have a bug open about r-m UI being frozen while synaptic is running?
[02:38] <pitti> seb128: no, I don't
[02:39] <pitti> seb128: right, I should fix that as well
[02:39] <seb128> k, I'll open that then ;)
[02:39] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[02:39] <seb128> np
[02:39] <pitti> seb128: I guess I just need to execute it asynchronously, and do some wait(timeout)/gtkmainiteration loop
[02:40] <seb128> pitti: yeah, or just make the synaptic window transient for it
[02:41] <seb128> rather than the loop
[02:41] <mvo> there is a transient-for option in synaptic
[02:41] <seb128> brb
[02:42] <pitti> mvo: what does that mean?
[02:42] <pitti> mvo: after all, subprocess.communicate() blocks until synaptic has finished
[02:43] <pitti> so there's no main loop in r-m during that time
[02:43] <mvo> pitti: if you want to fix that, run a thread with the communicate()
[02:44] <mvo> pitti: transient-for means that you can't move the install-window of synaptic under the r-m window
[02:44] <pitti> mvo: well, a wait() with a timeout seems easier
[02:44] <pitti> mvo: aah; that would be nice as well
[02:44] <mvo> pitti: thats ok too
[02:44] <pitti> mvo: how do I specify that? does it expect a PID?
[02:46] <mvo> pitti: a xwindow id, you get it with GtkWindow.Window.xid 
[02:46] <mvo> pitti: restriction-manager seems to work fine here with the ati
[02:46] <pitti> mvo: xorg.conf looks sane?
[02:46] <mvo> pitti: yes
[02:47] <pitti> mvo: diff -wir /var/cache/restricted-manager/ati.oldconf /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[02:47] <pitti> mvo: cool, thanks
[02:47] <pitti> seb128: wb
[02:47] <seb128> re
[02:47] <seb128> works fine 
[02:48] <seb128> and it fixes the Load "glx" dropping
[02:48] <mvo> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12493/
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: right, due to the more clean restoring
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: great
[02:50] <pitti> seb128: diff -wir /var/cache/restricted-manager/ati.oldconf /etc/X11/xorg.conf  <= looks sane?
[02:50] <pitti> seb128: erm, not -wir, but -wiu
[02:51] <seb128> I did copy xorg.conf and diff it
[02:51] <seb128> after enabling fglrx it looks the same with s/ati/fglrx
[02:51] <seb128> and lot of spacing changes
[02:51] <seb128> and desactiving fglrx brings it back exactly in the state it was before using it
[02:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: are you doing syncs or are you done for the day with them?
[02:52] <seb128> Mithrandir: I've not done them yet, I was going to do that soon
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: right, the spacing and capitalization changes are ugly; I already fixed some in the xorgconf.py, but it's far from perfect yet
[02:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: great, then I'll leave the one I was going to do myself for you (nfs-utils)
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: however, it doesn't really matter
[02:53] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok
[02:53] <pitti> seb128: thanks for testing! I think I'll release this to the world then
[02:53] <seb128> pitti: wasn't fglrx supposed to use Composite or something?
[02:53] <pitti> seb128: s/use/disable/, right?
[02:53] <seb128> it didn't add the no Composite option
[02:53] <seb128> ok
[02:53] <seb128> it didn't do it
[02:53] <pitti> seb128: right, that was the magic that dexconf did before, I have to add that manually now
[02:54] <pitti> seb128: I'll look into that
[02:54] <seb128> ok
[02:54] <seb128> pitti: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/restricted-manager/+bug/97399 BTW
[02:54] <ubotu> Malone bug 97399 in restricted-manager "UI not updated while synaptic is running" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[02:54] <pitti> mvo: ^ you have to fix that as well in your config
[02:54] <seb128> pitti: enjoy
[02:55] <mvo> pitti: what config? Composite option?
[02:56] <tkamppeter> With which motivation is it decided whether a tool goes into the "Administration" or into the "Preferences" sub menu of the "System" menu? For example I think that "Printing" (gnome-cups-manager) should go into "Administration"?
[02:57] <seb128> tkamppeter: admin are mainly tools requiring sudo
[02:57] <seb128> gnome-cups-manager would probably be better placed in admin though, right
[02:58] <tkamppeter> "Printing" requires the privileged user for adding and removing queues, sudo for turning on/off Browsing/Broadcasting, and any user can set his personal default options with it.
[02:59] <tkamppeter> seb128, I think it really belongs into "Admin".
[02:59] <_MMA_> seb128: Thanx for the GDM fix. ;) bug 97197
[02:59] <ubotu> Malone bug 97197 in gdm "GDM depends on ubuntu-sounds" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97197
[02:59] <seb128> _MMA_: np
[02:59] <seb128> _MMA_: are you Cory?
[03:01] <_MMA_> Yep
[03:01] <tkamppeter> seb128, one should perhaps look through all the entries of the "Administration" and the "Preferences", as probably something got messed up there while these menus did not exist because they were replaced by the Control Center.
[03:01] <seb128> _MMA_: ok, I don't need to reply to your mail then ;)
[03:02] <_MMA_> seb128: I sent the email to you before I remembered I could just file a bug.
[03:02] <seb128> tkamppeter: those menus were the same in edgy
[03:02] <_MMA_> Yeah np.
[03:02] <seb128> _MMA_: BTW, do you work on exaile?
[03:03] <seb128> _MMA_: if you have an interest to the package would be nice to subscribe to it on launchpad ;)
[03:03] <_MMA_> No. I use it and am active in their channel. No packaging or dev.
[03:03] <seb128> I've noticed there was quite some crashes unconfirmed there
[03:03] <tkamppeter> seb128, then the problem perhaps already occured in Edgy, but I do not remember whether it was the case.
[03:03] <seb128> _MMA_: ok, if you know some upstream and can get somebody to subscribe on launchpad ... there is quite some bugs with stacktraces there, might be useful to them
[03:04] <seb128> _MMA_: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bugs
[03:04] <_MMA_> cool.
[03:04] <seb128> _MMA_: to subscribe: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+subscribe
[03:04] <tkamppeter> seb128, perhaps we should simply move over the inadequately placed tools then so that it gets correct in Feisty.
[03:04] <_MMA_> I think their actually about to push out .2.9.
[03:04] <seb128> tkamppeter: yeah, sure, do you have other gnome-cups-manager changes planned?
[03:04] <seb128> tkamppeter: or should I do an upload just to fix the category?
[03:05] <seb128> _MMA_: k, cool
[03:06] <tkamppeter> seb128, there is bug 91218, and Daniel Holbach is currently doing investigations on it (see last comments). This is a show stopper which needs to be fixed.
[03:06] <ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
[03:07] <_MMA_> seb128: Ill talk to its dev "synic" today and see if he will sign up on Launchpad.
[03:08] <seb128> _MMA_: rock on, thank you ;)
[03:08] <_MMA_> np
[03:08] <seb128> tkamppeter: yeah, there is no patch for that one yet, we will do an another upload if required
[03:08] <seb128> tkamppeter: do you have a bug about the admin menu thing?
[03:09] <seb128> tkamppeter: I'll fix it now, just to know if there is a bug to close
[03:09] <tkamppeter> seb128, no, it was simply that I have observed it in the last weeks when I did some testing on g-c-m.
[03:09] <seb128> ok
[03:12] <pitti> mvo: right, composite doesn't get disabled ATM
[03:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have added a comment to bug 68256 now, telling about the need of the printing dialogs to tell whether a printer is local or remote.
[03:27] <ubotu> Malone bug 68256 in cupsys "kde: Openoffice doesn't see remote cups printers, just generic printer" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68256
[03:27] <pitti> thanks
[03:28] <tkamppeter> I have not closed the bug, because the user reported that he sees the broadcasted printers with kprinter but not with OOo, do you have an idea whether that happens?
[03:28] <pitti> hm, no; maybe kprinter has some custom method of detecting them
[03:31] <tkamppeter> I remember that one can access a remote CUPS server with kprinter directly (like the CUPS tools do when one chooses a server via client.conf), but for that feature the user really has to enter a remote CUPS server into the kprinter configuration. I have asked the user whether he did so.
[03:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, but that's normal IPP printing; the question was about automatically seeing them via browsing, right?
[03:35] <seb128> doko: do you know about openoffice.org-soikko?
[03:35] <seb128> doko: bug #96969
[03:35] <ubotu> Malone bug 96969 in openoffice.org-soikko "Should be removed before feisty, removed from debian too" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96969
[03:36] <tkamppeter> pitti, yes, I only want to know whether everything behaves as designed (in this case I will reject the bug), as if the user did not do any configuration changes both kprinter and OOo should show the same printer list.
[03:36] <danohuiginn> can I persuade anybody here to review a patch for me? bug 57067
[03:36] <ubotu> Malone bug 57067 in python-mysqldb "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode certain bytes " [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57067
[03:36] <tepsipakki> seb128: that's a valid request for what I know
[03:37] <seb128> tepsipakki: ok
[03:37] <tepsipakki> soikko is the old and nonfree version of a spellchecker for Finnish
[03:37] <tepsipakki> voikko is far superior
[03:38] <mjr> dunno if it's superior, but at least it's maintained and free ;)
[03:38] <seb128> tepsipakki: bug closed, thank you
[03:39] <tepsipakki> mjr: proved my point ;)
[03:39] <Keybuk> stupid LP question time
[03:39] <Keybuk> ...how do I link to an upstream bug for a package where there's no upstream product registered?
[03:40] <seb128> you register the product first and then link it
[03:40] <danohuiginn> Keybuk: AIUI,you need to register a package through https://launchpad.net/products/+new
[03:40] <Keybuk> damn
[03:40] <Keybuk> that means I end up owning yet another thing :-/
[03:40] <seb128> Keybuk: or get kiko to register the product for you, that's what I do ;)
[03:41] <seb128> I think kiko told me you don't have the product you register previous time I asked him
[03:41] <seb128> s/don't have/don't have to own/
[03:44] <Keybuk>  module-init-tools doesn't use Launchpad to track its bugs. If you know this bug has been reported in another bug tracker, you can link to it; Launchpad will keep track of its status for you.
[03:44] <Keybuk> ?|
[03:44] <Keybuk> I KNOW THAT, I just gave it a Bugzilla URL
[03:44] <pitti> mvo, seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/restricted-manager_0.15_all.deb updated for the Extensions/Composite section
[03:45] <Keybuk> (no wonder nobody files bugs upstream; damn! that was hard work)
[03:46] <seb128> pitti: testing
[03:55] <pitti> seb128: is bug 97402 with 0.15?
[03:55] <ubotu> Malone bug 97402 in restricted-manager "indicates that a reboot is required even after an xorg restart" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97402
[03:56] <seb128> pitti: yes
[03:56] <pitti> seb128: hmm, xorg restart loaded the kernel module?
[03:57] <seb128> pitti: ok, kernel module doesn't work on my box
[03:57] <seb128> fglrx works fine without it though
[03:57] <seb128> just without DRI
[03:58] <doko> seb128: ok with me =)
[03:58] <pitti> right
[03:58] <pitti> seb128: may that be a consequence of not disabling composite?
[03:58] <seb128> might be
[03:58] <seb128> I need to try again
[03:58] <pitti> seb128: new 0.15 disables composite now, maybe that helps
[03:58] <seb128> I don't think so though
[03:59] <pitti> seb128: if a real reboot makes it work, then we can just close this, probably
[03:59] <seb128> well, I'm using fglrx
[03:59] <seb128> it should not tell me than a reboot is required
[03:59] <seb128> it should say it's activated no?
[04:00] <seb128> the update works fine and disable composite as expected BTW
[04:00] <pitti> if you disable it, then you'll need a reboot, too
[04:00] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
[04:00] <seb128> why?
[04:00] <seb128> I did restart xorg
[04:01] <pitti> seb128: that won't unload the module, right?
[04:01] <seb128> ok, for you fglrx = using the kernel module
[04:01] <seb128> for me it's xorg using the fglrx driver
[04:01] <pitti> seb128: I agree that this could be better, but I think it's not such a big deal for now
[04:01] <seb128> the module doesn't work on my desktop as said
[04:01] <pitti> ah
[04:01] <seb128> oh, I didn't consider it a big deal
[04:01] <seb128> I just file bugs
[04:02] <seb128> I think it's "trivial" importance
[04:02] <seb128> (we don't have anything between wishlist and low though)
[04:03] <seb128> feel free to close it and blaming it on fglrx module not working on my box, that's fine with me ;)
[04:03] <seb128> I just though the xorg driver detection was buggy
[04:03] <seb128> I didn't think about the kernel module
[04:03] <pitti> seb128: no, I'll keep it as low
[04:03] <pitti> I just wanted to find out what happened exactly
[04:04] <seb128> np
[04:05] <seb128> pitti: for information, that's the message I was having when I tried to load the fglrx some time ago: "kernel: [19204.817731]  [fglrx:firegl_init_module]  *ERROR* firegl_stub_register failed"
[04:05] <pitti> urgh
[04:05] <seb128> pitti: nothing due to r-m ;)
[04:06] <pitti> seb128: unfortunately I do not know how to detect the currently running X driver; testing the kernel module is the best I have so far
[04:06] <carlos> cjwatson: ping
[04:06] <cjwatson> carlos: hi
[04:06] <seb128> pitti: WFM
[04:06] <carlos> cjwatson: hi
[04:07] <pitti> seb128: xorg.conf determines what you want (enabled/disabled), whereas the 'status' displays what's currently running
[04:07] <seb128> pitti: it's probably ok in 95% of the cases anyway
[04:07] <pitti> seb128: you don't happen to have an idea about that?
[04:07] <carlos> cjwatson: I just saw your email about ubiquity strings. Are you including debian-installer .po and .pot files inside a .deb package now?
[04:07] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I grep Xorg.0.log usually to know what I'm running, but that's hacky
[04:07] <pitti> import X11; X11.get_running_driver() :)
[04:08] <pitti> maybe some xprop or so
[04:08] <cjwatson> carlos: no, no changes there
[04:09] <Mithrandir> given that you can easily use more than one driver, that's slightly hard
[04:09] <seb128> pitti: don't bother with that, it's low importance
[04:09] <carlos> cjwatson: ok, then I need to do an upload by hand, as usual to allow translators to translate it in Launchpad
[04:09] <carlos> cjwatson: I did it a couple of days ago
[04:10] <cjwatson> carlos: I haven't uploaded my changes yet
[04:10] <carlos> I wonder whether this change was already there at that time or is something new done today
[04:11] <Mithrandir> heno: shouldn't bug 68419 be fixed now?
[04:11] <ubotu> Malone bug 68419 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) disctree says it is 6.06 " [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68419
[04:11] <cjwatson> carlos: like I say, I haven't uploaded my changes yet. Don't expect to see them anywhere
[04:12] <carlos> ok
[04:12] <cjwatson> carlos: I'll try to remember to let you know when I do
[04:12] <carlos> please, ping me once people.ubuntu.com is done so I can refresh Rosetta version
[04:12] <carlos> cjwatson: ok, thank you
[04:16] <zul> oops
[04:18] <Seveaz> Keybuk, so much for holiday ;)
[04:19] <Keybuk> heh, it's more that I reached a point about three months ago where I receive more LP bug mails per hour than I am actually capable of *reading* in an hour
[04:20] <Keybuk> so I haven't read them at all in a long time
[04:20] <bddebian> Heya
[04:22] <heno> Mithrandir: it is yes, have marked it Fixed now
[04:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, you told in bug 91218 that the package should be built with "DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noopt,nostrip debuild -us -uc -b". This is rather complicated and the next one will forget to do it. Can these options also be set somewhere in debian/rules or debian/control?
[04:25] <ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
[04:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is a standard environment for Debian source packages
[04:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: it is *absolutely* not meant to be specified in debian/rules
[04:26] <pochu> heno: shouldn't bugs in https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu-iso-tests/+bugs be closed, as beta has already been released?
[04:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, wait, you want to build the pacakge with -O1 instead of -O2 or so? Please use CFLAGS
[04:28] <heno> pochu: indeed, would you like to close them or shall I?
[04:28] <pochu> heno: doesn't the script do it?
[04:28] <pochu> I can do it then
[04:28] <pochu> will be just a minute
[04:29] <heno> pochu: no, that's still manual
[04:35] <pochu> heno: done
[04:36] <ogra> pitti, r-m seems to work ok for me ... now i only need to find out why my screen goes white with compiz ...
[04:36] <pitti> ogra: great, thanks for testing
[04:36] <pitti> ogra: NB that fglrx does not support composite
[04:36] <ogra> with the ati driver indeed
[04:37] <ogra> with fglrx it doesnt even attempt to use desktop-effects
[04:44] <pitti> mvo: hm, say I have a gtk.Dialog object; it doesn't have a Window, nor a xid attribure
[04:44] <pitti> attribute, too
[04:46] <mvo> pitti: gtk.Dialog.window.xid should work (make sure that the dialog is realized() before)
[04:46] <mvo> window is the GdkWindow that belongs to the GtkWindow
[04:46] <pitti> mvo: oh, "window", you said "Window"
[04:47] <pitti> mvo: indeed, window exists, it's just None at the time when I call it
[04:47] <pitti> mvo: yay, works now; thank you!
[04:48] <mvo> pitti: great! 
[04:48] <mvo> pitti: if its None, you can use realize()
[04:49] <pitti> mvo: what's the synaptic argument for that? --help does nto display it
[04:51] <mvo> pitti: --parent-window-id
[04:52] <pitti> gorgeous
[05:02] <_ion> benc, pitti: You've got mail. :-)
[05:02] <pitti> will read in a minute, brb
[05:02] <_ion> Nothing acute.
[05:02] <pitti> _ion: FYI, I just uploaded r-m 0.15, a real killer release :)
[05:03] <_ion> pitti: Yay
[05:03] <ogra> pitti, it doesnt fix compiz for me ... no killer release !
[05:03] <pitti> ogra: bah
[05:03] <ogra> it should secretly fix the world at least :)
[05:04] <_ion> pitti: With l-r-m built with the patch i emailed, i can simply remove all automatically generated files from /usr/share/restricted-manager/modalias_override and it Just Works.
[05:04] <pitti> _ion: yay
[05:05] <pitti> _ion: so the l-r-m changes will 'override' the internal .ko modaliases, so that modinfo fglrx just DTRT?
[05:05] <pitti> _ion: indeed, just reading your mail. well done!!
[05:06] <_ion> pitti: Yeah. The .ko files are built with the alias listings overwritten. I managed to implement it without much ugliness.
[05:06] <_ion> (Just some ;-) )
[05:08] <tkamppeter> seb128, when you are building gnome-cups-manager to move it into the Admin menu, can you build it with -O0 in the CFLAGS (at least for 64-bit), this probably fixes bug 91218. See last comments there.
[05:08] <ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
[05:08] <iwj> root@samual13:~# grep sda /proc/partitions 
[05:08] <iwj>    8     0  488386584 sda
[05:08] <iwj> root@samual13:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda count=1
[05:08] <iwj> dd: writing to `/dev/sda': No space left on device
[05:09] <iwj> WTF?
[05:09] <seb128> tkamppeter: no, we want to fix the bug, not to hide it like that
[05:09] <_ion> pitti: This xorgconf stuff looks neat.
[05:10] <pitti> _ion: indeed, and it fixes a whole lot of important bugs (I hope it doesn't introduce too many new ones); but after all, this code is in use for quite some time
[05:12] <dieman> iwj: would another log for 75681 help you?
[05:14] <iwj> dieman: Err, perhaps, if you can provide all of the info I've asked Aurelien for.  But don't go out of your way to get it.
[05:14] <Mithrandir> heno: cheers
[05:14] <iwj> One log of it going wrong is massively superior to none :-).  Another log is mostly for if you think your problem is different to Aurelien's.
[05:16] <unimatrix9> hello there again, hows it going?
[05:17] <pitti> evand: ping
[05:17] <unimatrix9> feisty fawn beta 1, running an test ( great job , is very very polished )
[05:17] <iwj> Dammit, I need this SATA to work not to go bizarrely wrong.
[05:17] <evand> pitti: pong
[05:18] <unimatrix9> found one bug : the Ubuntu device database collection does not work ( might be normal becuase its an beta 0 ?
[05:18] <pitti> evand: I just read a first test of feisty beta by c't, a very famous German computer magazine (http://www.heise.de/open/artikel/87242)
[05:18] <unimatrix9> beta 1..*
[05:18] <pitti> evand: they mentioned the migration assistent :)
[05:18] <mvo> pitti: is it a good review?
[05:18] <pitti> evand: however, it didn't do anything for both a German WinXP and a German Edgy
[05:18] <pitti> mvo: pretty short, but positive
[05:19] <evand> pitti: There was actually a bug filed about this.  I made a mistake in assuming that "Documents and Settings" doesn't get translated like its subdirectories do.  I'm working on this for the next upload.
[05:19] <evand> pitti: Thank you for pointing it out though.
[05:19] <pitti> evand: ah, so it's indeed an i18n problem
[05:19] <evand> indeed
[05:19] <pitti> evand: great to hear that it's being fixed; thank you!
[05:20] <evand> oddly enough the Spanish copy of Windows XP I have has "C:\Documents and Settings".  Apparently the German versions do not.
[05:20] <pitti> evand: is there a way to find that folder without knowing the name?
[05:20] <evand> pitti: Indeed, the registry.  It shouldn't be too hard to fix.
[05:20] <pitti> evand: I faintly remember having seen 'Dokumente und Einstellungen' on my mother's laptop
[05:21] <pitti> evand: oh, if there's a registry key pointing to it, that sounds find
[05:21] <evand> pitti: no problem
[05:25] <ubotu> Malone bug 97457 in linux-source-2.6.20 "sil3114 sata inexplicable ENOSPC" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97457
[05:27] <Keybuk> *giggles* at the tragedy of Bug #77366
[05:27] <ubotu> Malone bug 77366 in udev "Kubuntu automounter doesn't mount Discworld II cds" [Low,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77366
[05:27] <kylem> ...
[05:28] <Keybuk> SafeDisc thingy
[05:28] <bettsp|school> What's the debian command to write a patch? There's a command that'll spawn a shell, let you edit the source, then save out your changes as a patch
[05:28] <kylem> that's hilarious
[05:29] <kylem> bettsp|school, dpatch
[05:29] <thom> dpatch-edit-patch
[05:29] <bettsp|school> kylem,thom: Thanks
[05:29] <bettsp|school> I'm trying to make a patch for Nautilus to fix the small name column bug
[05:31] <mvo> could some native speaker please review http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12523/ ?
[05:31] <cjwatson> bettsp|school: this stuff depends on the package you're patching
[05:31] <iwj> mvo: Sure.
[05:31] <cjwatson> bettsp|school: for nautilus, it's cdbs-edit-patch
[05:31] <iwj> `Play' or perhaps `play back', rather than `playback'.
[05:32] <mvo> play sounds better I guess, changed
[05:32] <iwj> And I think both big sentences should be reversed.
[05:33] <iwj> Hmm, perhaps not the first one, but it might benefit from a comma.
[05:33] <iwj> `To play media files, corresponding ...'
[05:33] <cjwatson> perhaps "suitable" rather than "corresponding"?
[05:33] <iwj> `The search will also include software not officially supported [by/in]  Ubuntu'
[05:33] <cjwatson> or in fact "You need to install suitable codecs to play media files."
[05:33] <iwj> Or `... software not part of the officially support Ubuntu' or some such.
[05:33] <iwj> cjwatson: Much better.
[05:34] <iwj> And `This search'.
[05:34] <iwj> `This search will also include software which is not officially supported'.
[05:34] <pitti> bettsp|school: nautilus doesn't use dpatch, that won't work
[05:34] <iwj> But don't we search first and ask questions later and if not why not ?
[05:35] <pitti> bettsp|school: cdbs-edit-patch will probably do
[05:35] <mvo> iwj, cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12525/
[05:35] <mvo> better?
[05:35] <mvo> iwj: we got bugreports that a progress window out of the blue and this window with the codecs is confusing.
[05:36] <mvo> iwj: so the idea was to ask nicely first so that people know what will happen. i think thats fine given that the amount of codecs that get installed is rather limited, so you don't see this question very often
[05:39] <iwj> IC
[05:39] <glatzor> hi mvo
[05:39] <iwj> That text is better.
[05:40] <mvo> iwj: thanks for your review
[05:40] <iwj> NP
[05:41] <mjg59> iwj: Does fdisk fail with ENOSPC as well?
[05:41] <iwj> Yes, well, it doesn't tell you the errno value.
[05:41] <iwj> And mdadm complains that the device is too small.
[05:42] <iwj> cfdisk and fdisk complain that they can't read it, after opening it and getting EOF.
[05:42] <iwj> (Looking at strace.)(
[05:42] <iwj> Dammit, you crappy program, coredump!
[05:44] <glatzor> iwj: thanks Ian for polishing
[05:45] <exoide> Hi, can someone give me some reference about the .symtab section in an ELF file?
[05:46] <glatzor> mvo: do we already know at the time when the dialog is shown if we can support the file?
[05:46] <mvo> glatzor: yes, we know that we can
[05:47] <mvo> glatzor: I commited the latest version of the question to bzr, I have a appointment now and will be back in ~30-45min
[05:47] <glatzor> mvo: fine. I am going out running too
[05:47] <mvo> glatzor: have fun
[05:48] <glatzor> mvo: good luck for your appointment - sounds so seriously :)
[05:48] <mvo> glatzor: it is!
[05:50] <iwj> mjg59: Any ideas ?  It seems quite bizarre to me.  I would think it was some kind of large disk overflow bug except that that would presumably happen to everyone and I can't seem to find any trace of it.
[05:52] <mjg59> Nothing that springs to mind
[05:52] <mjg59> There's no odd jumpers on it?
[05:53] <iwj> mjg59: It's got the `limit to 1.5Gb/s' jumper fitted.
[05:54] <mjg59> Shouldn't make any difference
[05:54] <iwj> That's what I thought I :-).
[05:54] <iwj> The thing is, it shows up just fine with its proper size in /proc/partitions.
[05:56] <mjg59> Nothig in dmesg when it returns that?
[05:56] <iwj> No.
[05:56] <iwj> My kernel is somewhat out of date.  -10.17, and most recent is -13.21.
[05:57] <mjg59> Doubt it makes a difference, but checking the latest would probably help
[05:58] <iwj> I'll do an update and see if it helps ...
[06:03] <kylem> iwj, try bs=512
[06:04] <iwj> 0+0 records in
[06:04] <kylem> cool
[06:04] <iwj> 512 would be 256kib.
[06:06] <Amaranth> pochu: we need to work in shifts on compiz bugs or something :)
[06:07] <pochu> Amaranth: I want day shift ;)
[06:07] <Amaranth> haha
[06:08] <Amaranth> pochu: if an apport backtrace has a compiz-extra plugin at the top reassign it to compiz-extra
[06:08] <pochu> Amaranth: we have a ton of crash dups, I'll take a look this evening
[06:08] <Amaranth> pochu: and then forget it ever existed ;)
[06:08] <pochu> hehe
[06:09] <pochu> we can assign it to whoever uploaded it to the repos :)
[06:09] <ogra> mdz, ??
[06:09] <Amaranth> well, hopefully it won't be in the repos
[06:09] <mdz> ogra: yes?
[06:09] <ogra> mdz, ltsp-client-builder.udeb is included in d-i since it exists
[06:09] <ogra> its just not selected by default
[06:10] <mdz> ogra: I don't think that contradicts my email; was it unclear?
[06:10] <pochu> Amaranth: it's already in (universe)
[06:11] <ogra> mdz, you want a menu entry on the Cd menu ? your mail says we should include ltsp-client-builder.udeb and enable it ... part one is done  ...
[06:11] <ogra> oh, wait ... server CD ...
[06:11] <ogra> ignore me
[06:11] <Amaranth> pochu: right, hopefully i can get it removed :)
[06:11] <mdz> ogra: maybe I misunderstand.  it is part of the installer seed for edubuntu, not for ubuntu
[06:11] <pochu> Amaranth: oh, cool :)
[06:11] <mdz> but we want the functionality in both
[06:12] <ogra> it is in ubuntu as well (since you added it), i dont know about the server CD
[06:12] <ogra> you once added the ltsp bits to ubuntu ... when i wrote ltsp-client-builder it was automatically added to d-i's menu ...
[06:13] <ogra> as long as nobody removed it without me knowing it should still all be there and you should be able to build an ltsp server in the expert install by manually selecting it
[06:13] <mdz> ogra: I do not think the udeb is even on the CD
[06:13] <ogra> hmm
[06:14] <ogra> then it got removed, i'm sure it was in edgy
[06:14] <mdz> ogra: and the packages aren't, so the entire desktop would need to be downloaded
[06:14] <mdz> ogra: we're talking about enabling the turnkey experience during installation; i know the pieces are there, but they need to be connected
[06:14] <ogra> mdz, right, for server thats true ... but the regular ubuntu alternate should have everything
[06:15] <mdz> ogra: the ubuntu installer seed, which is shared with all Ubuntu CDs (including the server) does not include the ltsp udeb
[06:16] <ogra> mdz, but ship includes ltsp-server-standalone and ltsp-client
[06:16] <mdz> ogra: those are just packages, nothing to do with the installer
[06:17] <ogra> hmm, why was i under the impression that puls the udeb in ... silly 
[06:17] <ogra> right, then it needs to be added to the installer 
[06:17] <iwj> This constant update-initramfs is _painful_.
[06:18] <ogra> yeah, we should have a queueing mechanism 
[06:18] <Mithrandir> iwj: just implement dpkg triggers! :-)
[06:18] <iwj> Right.
[06:18] <Mithrandir> "just"
[06:18] <iwj> Go to debian-dpkg and argue about the spec.  I'll probably repost it in a week or so after the svenl thing has died down a bit.
[06:19] <_ion> Ignore complaints and just implement it. :-)
[06:20] <iwj> Yeah, but then I get complaints afterwards about how I did it wrong.
[06:20] <iwj> Eg, update-info.
[06:20] <iwj> Yay!  It has updated the initramfs.  Now all it needs to do is ... update the initramfs.
[06:21] <iwj> But I have to go and catch my train or I won't get to go climbing.
[06:21] <iwj> TTFN everyone.
[06:40] <cjwatson> ogra: adding it to the Ubuntu installer seed should be safe, yes
[06:41] <ogra> well, you will likely need the -i396 image as well, that might be the bug drawback for the common alternate
[06:41] <ogra> s/bug/big/
[06:42] <ogra> i can make a small change that it automaticaly falls back to -generic, but you will get probs on several clients then i guess
[06:43] <cjwatson> problems worse than it not installing at all? :)
[06:43] <ogra> well, not booting worst case
[06:44] <cjwatson> using base-installer's kernel detection would be good, although it may be too late for that
[06:44] <ogra> like locking up in usplash or something ...
[06:44] <ogra> well, we can spec it for feisty+1 
[06:44] <cjwatson> it should be entirely possible to detect whether -generic will work and Just Do It Damnit :-)
[06:44] <ogra> i'l put that on my list
[06:44] <cjwatson> I wrote that interface in base-installer, so I'm happy to help you with that
[06:45] <ogra> well, it owuld be possible i guess from the tftp side :) 
[06:45] <ogra> but you would still need the right fallback kernel then :P
[06:45] <cjwatson> obviously, yes
[06:47] <ogra> obviously the right fix would be to have the kernel switch on and off the features we need on demand ;)
[06:48] <ogra> without dpkg involved anywhere :)
[07:00] <cjwatson> ogra: there's plenty of room on the server CD; no reason not to include the -386 kernel there
[07:01] <ogra> well, you need a desktop as well for ltsp
[07:01] <ogra> then you use up all the space
[07:01] <cjwatson> true
[07:01] <ogra> we should have a cut down gnome for such cases ...
[07:02] <ogra> but cutting it down will make it loose functionallity :(
[07:55] <superm1> BenC, ping
[07:55] <BenC> superm1: pong
[07:56] <superm1> BenC, just wanted to see if you had gotten a chance to look over the lirc patch, or if there was anything that you wanted me to change with regard to it. i've got a little time to kill right now if need be
[07:57] <BenC> superm1: Not yet, I've been working on some other things, but I should be able to get to it by the end of the week
[07:57] <superm1> BenC, alright sounds good :)
[08:15] <shawarma> Is there any way to make gdb save a core file representing the current state of a traced application, ie. dumping the traced application's core?
[08:16] <Chipzz> hrrrrm
[08:17] <Chipzz> maybe killing the app with a SIG11?
[08:17] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[08:18] <shawarma> Chipzz: Nah, that just gives me back the gdb prompt.
[08:18] <shawarma> Chipzz: I can make gdb dump its own core, but that's not quite what I'm after. :-)
[08:18] <cjwatson> shawarma: gcore
[08:18] <shawarma> cjwatson: Great! That's it. Thanks.
[08:18] <cjwatson> (short for generate-core-file)
[08:19] <shawarma> cjwatson: Did you remember that one or did you find it in the online help? I've been looking for 10 minutes and couldn't spot it.
[08:19] <cjwatson> I looked it up
[08:20] <cjwatson> 'info gdb' C-s core C-s C-s C-s ... and see:
[08:20] <cjwatson> * Core File Generation::        Cause a program dump its core
[08:20] <cjwatson> may just have been luckier at searching than you
[08:21] <shawarma> cjwatson: Oh, of course it's in info. Thanks, RMS!:-(
[08:21] <shawarma> cjwatson: Clearly. Well, thanks a bundle!
[08:21] <cjwatson> while as the man-db maintainer I obviously prefer man pages, in some cases I am resigned to my fate
[08:21] <jcole> does the new ubuntu installer populate the debconf database properly?
[08:22] <_ion> Windows Help for the win
[08:22] <cjwatson> though actually I think the gdb documentation is a fairly good example of where man pages get rather too long and unstructured
[08:22] <cjwatson> jcole: "new" in what sense, and "properly" in what way?
[08:23] <shawarma> cjwatson: I suppose that's true. I still can't spot it in the online help, though. Strange. It's a much more useful command than most of the silly ones they actually describe there. :-)
[08:25] <cjwatson> shawarma: appears to be under 'help files'
[08:25] <cjwatson> I often find gdb's online help to be rather hard to navigate though
[08:25] <jcole> cjwatson: well, the edgy gui installer didn't update debconf values for stuff like mirror/suite, mirror/http/hostname, mirror/http/directory, passwd/username, partition recipe, etc.
[08:25] <jcole> cjwatson: we do installs in our company and utilize the debconf db to configure a system
[08:25] <shawarma> cjwatson: So it does. My gdb-fu is seriously lacking today.
[08:26] <cjwatson> jcole: I would much appreciate you filing bugs about that sort of thing
[08:26] <cjwatson> this is the first I've heard of it
[08:26] <cjwatson> some of those are not ones that d-i copies over either, though
[08:27] <cjwatson> hmm - actually, no, don't file a bug in this case :) d-i doesn't copy any of those debconf questions to the installed system, so I don't see why ubiquity should
[08:27] <jcole> cjwatson: sure it does
[08:27] <cjwatson> not to the main debconf db
[08:28] <jcole> cjwatson: oh yeah, we use "debconf-get-selections --installer"
[08:28] <cjwatson> it copies across its own database to /var/log/installer/cdebconf/
[08:29] <cjwatson> jcole: ok, well, I can't promise everything, but if you file a bug I may be able to arrange for some of those to be recorded
[08:30] <cjwatson> putting them in /var/log/installer/cdebconf/ would be kind of wrong though, as ubiquity doesn't (yet?) use cdebconf
[08:30] <cjwatson> so might need to hack debconf-get-selections too
[08:31] <jcole> cjwatson: maybe something like "debconf-get-selections --ubiquity"
[08:31] <cjwatson> no, I'd just make --installer DTRT
[08:32] <cjwatson> I don't really approve of other things having to be hacked explicitly for ubiquity - makes it harder to get patches accepted
[08:34] <jcole> time for lunch
[08:35] <damg> where does gnome-app-install fetch half of its i18n-stings from? I'm trying to translate the app, but half of the installer-specific strings are not in the po file ...
[08:41] <jwendell> seb128, i got trouble with gdm-ubuntu4
[08:41] <jwendell> seb128, it won't accept any key from keyboard
[08:41] <seb128> jwendell: what sort of trouble?
[08:41] <seb128> I doubt it's gdm
[08:42] <jwendell> seb128, i was unable to type my login or password
[08:42] <seb128> the update is ubuntu-sounds Depends changed to Recommends
[08:42] <shawarma> damg: It's probably in Rosetta.
[08:42] <shawarma> damg: (on launchpad)
[08:42] <jwendell> seb128, even ctrl alt f1 worked
[08:42] <seb128> ?
[08:42] <damg> shackan, thank you, I'll investigate it
[08:42] <seb128> jwendell: didn't work you mean?
[08:42] <jwendell> seb128, the only thing working is ctrl alt backspace
[08:42] <jwendell> seb128, yep did not
[08:43] <seb128> the ctrl-alt-f<n> not working is a known bug
[08:43] <seb128> the keyboard not work is likely xorg bug
[08:43] <seb128> what else did you update?
[08:43] <jwendell> seb128, i dropped patch 90---- and everything worked
[08:43] <seb128> gdm code didn't change
[08:43] <seb128> that patch is not new 
[08:43] <seb128> weird
[08:43] <seb128> jwendell: I would say it's a coincidence
[08:44] <seb128> could you try updating gdm to the official version again?
[08:44] <jwendell> seb128, i dropped that patch, rebuild, and installed new package and it worked
[08:44] <seb128> could you try to build a version with the patch
[08:44] <seb128> I doubt it's it
[08:45] <seb128> it's only an xioerror hack
[08:45] <jwendell> seb128, your latest upload (ubuntu3) included that patch, right?
[08:45] <seb128> which has been dropped
[08:45] <seb128> latest is ubuntu4
[08:45] <seb128> which changes the Depends on ubuntu-sound to a Recommends
[08:45] <jwendell> but ubuntu4 only changed control file...
[08:45] <seb128> right
[08:45] <seb128> 0ubuntu3 is some days old
[08:45] <seb128> do you update daily?
[08:45] <cjwatson> Riddell: could you please look at bug 86175?
[08:45] <ubotu> Malone bug 86175 in ubiquity "[kde-ui]  username_error_reason widget is misplaced" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86175
[08:46] <jwendell> seb128, yep, but i got this version (ubuntu3) only today
[08:46] <cjwatson> Riddell: I've just been fighting with Designer for about half an hour trying to get it such that the error message will actually be visible, and haven't been getting very far
[08:46] <seb128> jwendell: weird
[08:46] <cjwatson> Riddell: you can test it by entering a username with capital letters in it
[08:47] <seb128> jwendell: you have the only one who complained about that and I don't get how to patch could break your keyboard
[08:47] <jwendell> seb128, i did this update early morning, around 12h i did another update (ubuntu4), and now i restarted my laptop and couldn't log in
[08:47] <seb128> jwendell: could you try to build a patched version and see if you get the bug again?
[08:47] <seb128> maybe something in xorg went wrong
[08:48] <jwendell> seb128, i've made a ubuntu5 package. it's enough to downgrade to ubuntu4 ?
[08:48] <seb128> yep
[08:48] <jwendell> seb128, i'll test with gdmxnest
[08:48] <seb128> ok
[08:49] <jwendell> seb128, it's saying that i have a newer version, how to force? (apt-get)
[08:49] <seb128> jwendell: apt-get install gdm/feisty
[08:50] <seb128> or =2.18.0-0ubuntu4
[08:50] <jwendell> seb128, i'll restart
[09:02] <jwendell> seb128, let me explain what happened:
[09:02] <jwendell> i installed NX, and had to add the line '/usr/XN/lib' into /etc/ld.so.conf
[09:03] <jwendell> seb128, so, gdm, or X was linking to that libs, not system libs
[09:04] <jwendell> seb128, i noticed that when i was installing my ubuntu5 package. dpkg told me something about a function not found on that lib
[09:04] <jwendell> seb128, weird, no?
[09:05] <seb128> not really
[09:05] <seb128> that's why you should not install things out of the packaging system :p
[09:06] <jwendell> :)
[09:06] <seb128> not due to the gdm patch then, good ;)
[09:06] <jwendell> seb128, seems to be ldconfig prioritize that dirs found on /etc/ld.so.conf
[09:06] <jwendell> seb128, yep, good :)
[10:37] <gnomefreak> shouldnt epiphany home page be a ubuntu one not a kubuntu one?
[10:40] <_ion> Hi BenC. Have you perhaps had a chance to review the third patch i sent?
[10:51] <MaTRiKaTiON> hi
[11:09] <lamont> so how does one tell network-mangler to leave the machine the hell alone?
[11:09] <lamont> other than apt-get remove --purge network-manager?
[11:09] <lamont> on the bright side, it didn't trash /etc/network/interfaces at install like it used to
[11:10] <lifeless> rm /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager ?
[11:11] <lamont> lifeless: the purge took care of that too... :-)
[11:11] <lamont> otoh, an upgrade would probably recreate that file, no?
[11:11] <lifeless> well you asked for alternatives :)
[11:11] <jcole> lamont: lol, i had a hell of a time the other day trying configure my network due to the "helping" of NetworkManager
[11:11] <lifeless> dpkg-divert my riend, dpgk-divert
[11:11] <lamont>  dpkg-divert --list | grep ^local
[11:11] <lamont> local diversion of /usr/bin/gnome-session to /usr/bin/gnome-session.real
[11:11] <lamont> local diversion of /usr/bin/totem to /usr/bin/totem.real
[11:11] <lamont> local diversion of /usr/lib/totem/totem-mozilla-viewer to /usr/lib/totem/totem-mozilla-viewer.real
[11:13] <jcole> lamont: dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert $1.mydivert $1
[11:13] <lamont> I wouldn't need that if there were a way to tell gnome session 'start this, and don't start anything after that until it exits'
[11:13] <Burgwork> lamont: upstream is completely rewriting gnome-session, so if you want to get input in, now is good time
[11:13] <lamont> jcole: --local as well
[11:14] <lamont> Burgwork: venue?
[11:14] <lamont> that is, where should I go to put in input?
[11:14] <Burgwork> checking
[11:15] <lamont> that's what my gnome-session does: run one thing, once that's done, exec gnome-session.real
[11:17] <tepsipakki> lamont: put 'exit 0' in /etc/default/NetworkManager{,Dispatcher}
[11:17] <lamont> tepsipakki: that's  just vile...
[11:18] <tepsipakki> how so :)
[11:19] <Burgwork> lamont: this appears to be it http://live.gnome.org/SessionManagement
[11:19] <ogra> lamont, jus do the purge now and wait until Mithrandir has fixed it ... then find out how the new flag for /e/n/i is called
[11:19] <ogra> its a known issue he's working on
[11:19] <lamont> ogra: thanks
[11:20] <gnomefreak> has apt/synaptic/adept so on patched for geforce4 cards and feistys nvidia yet?
[11:20] <ogra> lamont, alternatively you can bring up your static interfaces manually *after* NM has connected anything 
[11:20] <gnomefreak> 97xx stopped support for geforce4 cards that is leaving alot of people X-less
[11:21] <mvo> gnomefreak: no, that will most likely be handled inside the nvidia-glx package itself
[11:21] <ogra> but you have to do it every login indeed
[11:21] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[11:34] <stratus> ogra: a co-worker cooked up l18n for s-c-p (should be integrated with tcm by us soon), interested?
[11:35] <ogra> stratus, talk to cbx33 please, he maintains it ... i'm only the upload bitch and fix bugs 
[11:35] <stratus> ogra: oh will do, ok.
[11:36] <ogra> stratus, you should also have a look at python-ltsp 
[11:36] <ajmitch> hi stratus 
[11:37] <ogra> i plan to develop some gui tools on top of it in feisty+1
[11:37] <ogra> and i plan to merge it with python-tcm
[11:37] <ogra> so you have all server and user actions you will ever need in ltsp in one python module
[11:41] <stratus> ogra: really interesting stuff.
[11:41] <stratus> ajmitch: hey!