[12:18] <joejaxx> hmm
[12:18] <joejaxx> interesting
[12:19] <joejaxx> we need to add automake1.9 to fluxbox as a builddep
[12:31] <ajmitch> joejaxx: why does it require that?
[12:31] <ajmitch> did someone patch Makefile.am & not Makefile.in as well?
[12:37] <enyc> I have changed the. status tags on bugs 78005 77485 ... was this right for me to do this as per the new MOTU-SRU policy?
[12:37] <ubotu> Malone bug 78005 in qpsmtpd "[SRU]  request: dapper:qpsmtpd fix for bug #72602" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78005
[12:39] <enyc> I'm a little confused whom is now supposed to do the release- upload.... or how I do it....
[12:43] <enyc> Please let me know what todo ?? [??] 
[01:07] <pochu> night folks!
[01:26] <shawarma> I've been thinking a bit about the ubuntu-motu ml showing up as MOTU Media on Launchpad. What's stopping is from just going to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-motu/+claim, having it mail a password or whatever to the mailing list, logging in and fixing it?
[01:26] <shawarma> s/What's stopping is/What's stopping us/
[01:27] <shawarma> It's just so obvious that someone must have thought of it before and figured out a good reason why not to go through with it..
[01:27] <geser> ubuntu-motu ml would then get all the launchpad mails for the team
[01:28] <shawarma> geser: Oh, the horror!
[01:28] <jmg> hehh
[01:28] <shawarma> geser: We *could* just filter it in mailman.
[01:29] <shawarma> geser: It's silly, but so is the "MOTUMedia" thing.
[01:29] <shawarma> We could also just setup another primary e-mail for it.
[01:30] <shawarma> ...which would then get all the spam. Perhaps a new ml like "ubuntu-motu-bugs" or something?
[01:31] <geser> iirc was there also something about merging a person and a team and LP
[01:31] <shawarma> *We* all know what it means when it says MOTUMedia, but for the innocent bystanders it looks pretty strange, I think.
[01:31] <shawarma> geser: Yes, there might be some issues there as well.
[01:31] <geser> iirc is the zope team in a similar situation
[01:32] <ajmitch> yep
[01:32] <Fujitsu> We could also convince the LP people to make LP work sanely, which is probably the better solution.
[01:32] <geser> ajmitch and LaserJock might know more about it as they talked to the LP people
[01:33] <shawarma> Is there a bug about this?
[01:33] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: able to look at/sponsor enyc's upload to dapper-updates?
[01:33] <owh> I was wondering if anyone could assist. I have written a spec for dosfstools. It has been modified by another wiki user and I don't agree with the modifications. I have emailed the user asking for feedback and received no reply. How do I best revert the changes without getting into a wiki-war?
[01:34] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Not really, as I'm studying for a specialist maths SAC, and am about to head off to school.
[01:34] <Fujitsu> About == in 5 minutes.
[01:34] <owh> FYI: The Spec is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecificationDosDirtyFlag
[01:37] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:37] <mr_pouit> hey bddebian 
[01:39] <shawarma> owh: I'm just thinking that if he doesn't care enough to respond to e-mails about it..
[01:39] <shawarma> owh: Well... Revert the changes and see if that entices him out.
[01:39] <owh> shawarma: I understand your point, but I suspect that if I revert, then I'll be engaged in all manner of fun and games. Most non-productive :-(
[01:40] <owh> Hmm.
[01:40] <owh> Perhaps a different question will spark some progress. Is anyone here aware of any FAT dirty flag support in the kernel?
[01:41] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: fair enough :)
[01:41] <owh> Where would I begin to look?
[01:41] <Fujitsu> School holidays in 24 hours, so lots of time soon.
[01:41] <bddebian> UTSL?
[01:41] <Fujitsu> Bye everyone.
[01:41] <owh> Fujitsu: Hmm, school, that was a while ago.
[01:41] <bddebian> Enjoy
[01:41] <owh> Fujitsu: Have fun.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> Bye owh.
[01:42] <ajmitch> bddebian: saying 'UTSL' when referring to the kernel isn't awfully helpful
[01:42] <bddebian> Am I ever? :-)
[01:42] <ajmitch> of course
[01:42] <owh> bddebian: In fact I didn't know you were talking to me, nor do I know what UTSL is :-)
[01:43] <bddebian> UTSL == Use The Source Luke
[01:43] <owh> bddebian: Yeah, that's not very helpful :-)
[01:43] <owh> bddebian: ROTFL 
[01:43] <owh> bddebian: Sorry, a more constructive response would be. Where in particular?
[01:44] <bddebian> http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/XvFatDiscussion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=20050325-xvfat-intro-en.pdf ?
[01:45] <owh> Can anyone comment on the diff between v6 and v7 of the spec? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecificationDosDirtyFlag?action=diff&rev2=7&rev1=6
[01:46] <owh> bddebian: Hmm, now that's what I call informative. Excellent.
[01:47] <bddebian> s/UTSL/UTGL/
[01:47] <owh> Google?
[01:47] <bddebian> yeah :-)
[01:47] <owh> :-)
[01:48] <owh> The third hit :-)
[01:58] <owh> Can anyone point me to a CVS-web access of the kernel source, if such a beast exists?
[02:04] <owh> If I look at msdos_fs.h on my machine, it looks like this: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/include/linux/msdos_fs.h. If I read the only reference to an actual dirty flag here: http://lkml.org/lkml/1998/11/8/129, the 1998 version includes comments about dirty flags, but the current one does not.
[02:05] <owh> A grep for dirty in my include directory shows references to reiserfs, ext2/3, but nothing for fat.
[02:05] <bddebian> what's the flag?
[02:06] <owh> In 1998 it was referred to as: Current Head, but I cannot locate that part of the struct anymore.
[02:08] <owh> I can see the part that the 1998 email is referring to, the FAT32 section, but it does not contain the parts it should. I do not know how to determine if it ever existed, exists somewhere else, or has been removed.
[02:08] <owh> The PDF you showed me talks as if it already exists, which I would expect, but I have never found it.
[02:20] <owh> The more I look, the less evidence I find of this actually having ever been implemented.
[02:21] <mr_pouit> 'night all
[02:23] <owh> Hmm, so am I just being an idiot?
[02:24] <Rohinton> can anyone point me to the ubuntu distro ( dvd ) which has all the buntus on it...
[02:25] <Rohinton> I saw it in some web page and I cannot remember where...
[02:26] <owh> I cannot reconcile the concept that a mature part of the OS, FAT support, used every day by millions does not have dirty flag support. Which makes me think that it does exists, but not where I am looking. Am I blind?
[02:26] <owh> s/exists/exist/
[02:29] <Burgwork> owh: likely because vfat is not our default file system?
[02:30] <owh> Burgwork: Hmm.
[02:30] <fernando> hey all
[02:30] <owh> Ok, so am I alone in thinking that dirty flag support should exist?
[02:32] <Burgwork> probably not, just that most people don't really care
[02:32] <owh> I mean, every external drive, thumb-drives, cameras, even recovery partitions all use FAT. If we're going to co-exist, shouldn't we do it properly?
[02:32] <Burgwork> true
[02:32] <Burgwork> now that you have the spec, propose it for the next UDS
[02:33] <owh> UDS?
[02:33] <owh> Ubuntu Developer Sprint?
[02:34] <Burgwork> yes
[02:34] <Burgwork> on the spec, "submit to meeting" or something similar
[02:34] <Hobbsee> summit
[02:34] <Burgwork> hey mgalvin, Hobbsee
[02:34] <owh> What I'm concerned about is that I'm wasting people's time because it already exists and that I'm just too ignorant to find it.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> hiya Burgwork 
[02:35] <mgalvin> hey Burgwork!
[02:36] <Rohinton> ok - found it
[02:37] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee!
[02:37] <owh> Ok, let me ask about a different approach. If I wanted to find out for sure that it doesn't exist, who would I best ask where?
[02:38] <owh> s/it/fat dirty flag support/
[02:38] <Rohinton> owh: sorry was in my own world...
[02:38] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato~
[02:38] <owh> Rohinton: That's ok, so am I :)
[02:38] <Rohinton> owh: dirty as in in use...
[02:38] <owh> Rohinton: Dirty as in, mounted and changed.
[02:40] <Rohinton> owh: what type of fs, unix based or MS...
[02:41] <owh> Some background: Initially bugs were being reported where dosfschk was checking clean file systems and changing them, causing all manner of grief. Some of the bugs are/have been fixed, but the check should never have happened in the first place. I wrote a spec to handle the (v)FAT flag for dosfschk but stayed away from kernel comments because I do not know the state.
[02:41] <owh> The spec was updated to comment about the kernel, but I now need to know for sure if it isn't supported, which is what it's beginning to look like.
[02:42] <owh> Rohinton: So, the answer is MS based (x)(v)FAT(12/16/32), which is used all over the place.
[02:43] <Rohinton> owh: 2.4.20 seems to mention iit?
[02:43] <owh> Where?
[02:48] <owh> Rohinton: ?
[02:52] <owh> Rohinton: Are you talking about the reference in the pdf that bddebian showed us? http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/XvFatDiscussion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=20050325-xvfat-intro-en.pdf
[02:55] <Rohinton> owh: yes - I mis read that...
[02:56] <owh> Rohinton: I just found out about mtools and am reading up about that.
[03:06] <RAOF> Hm.  How do you make a package depend upon an exact version of one of its dependencies?
[03:06] <RAOF> In the same way as -dev packages depend on $source-version?
[03:07] <xtknight> e.g. Depends: dpkg (>= 1.13.20), ... ?
[03:07] <Rohinton> owh: There also some discussion about FAT and IP - maybe that's why it may not be there?
[03:07] <RAOF> xtknight: No, as in Depends: compiz (=0.3.6-1ubuntu9)
[03:07] <bddebian> No that's > or =
[03:07] <xtknight> hmm = doesnt work either?
[03:08] <RAOF> Because compiz-extra *needs* to be built against exactly the same version of compiz as it's running on.
[03:08] <RAOF> Otherwise, compiz crashes trying to load the plugins.
[03:09] <bddebian> >> is a strict depends but I don't think that's what you want either
[03:09] <RAOF> bddebian: I think we could use >> and <<, but it'd be nice to have it automatic?
[03:09] <owh> Rohinton: Where are you reading that?
[03:10] <RAOF> Or is that too much to ask for?
[03:10] <owh> Rohinton: I'm thinking you're meaning Intellectual Property, not Internet Protocol.
[03:11] <owh> Rohinton: If that's what you mean, didn't they all go to court and finally determine that FAT was not restricted because it was in such wide use, or did I remember wrong?
[03:12] <bddebian> RAOF: I don't know, sorry :-(
[03:14] <RAOF> Anyway, bug #97661 should be fixed with just a rebuild.
[03:14] <ubotu> Malone bug 97661 in compiz-extra "Loading any Compiz-Extra plugins causes Compiz to segfault" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97661
[03:22] <bddebian> owh: There's some dirty buffer stuff in buffer.c but I don't think that's what you are looking for
[03:23] <owh> Rohinton: The IP stuff about FAT is referred to in wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
[03:26] <Rohinton> owh: I am not sure ...
[03:27] <Rohinton> owh: sorry - trying to also deal with Homework, kids not mine :-)
[03:28] <owh> bddebian: Hmm, it appears to be talking about memory buffers, but I see references to inodes. Could this be dealing with swap, rather than FAT?
[03:29] <bddebian> tbh, I'm not sure if fat uses inodes or not.  I know extfs does
[03:29] <owh> bddebian: Or is this the abstraction layer between the kernel and any file system?
[03:29] <Rohinton> owh: That's the vfs layer?
[03:30] <owh> Well, bddebian talked about buffer.c, which relates to this file AFAIK: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/fs/buffer.c#L1250
[03:30] <Rohinton> owh: so what is the exact question you want answered?
[03:31] <owh> Rohinton: The question is this: "Is there now, or has there ever been dirty flag support in FAT implemented in the kernel?"
[03:33] <owh> Rohinton: My current answer is: "Not as far as I can tell."
[03:34] <jmg> use the source
[03:34] <bddebian>  drivers/block/loop.c ?
[03:35] <jmg> /fs/fat ?
[03:35] <owh> jmg: I did. I get conflicting results. If I look at msdos_fs.h on my machine, it looks like this: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/include/linux/msdos_fs.h. If I read the only reference to an actual dirty flag here: http://lkml.org/lkml/1998/11/8/129, the 1998 version includes comments about dirty flags, but the current one does not.
[03:35] <jmg> i dont have the tree at hand
[03:36] <jmg> owh: by dirty flag, you mean the bit that forces checks after an unclean reboot?
[03:36] <owh> jmg: I do indeed mean that.
[03:36] <owh> bddebian: No, that's the loop driver.
[03:37] <ajmitch> hello StevenK 
[03:37] <Rohinton> owh: http://www.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/XvFatDiscussion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=20050715-xvfat-2.4.20.patch maybe some clue here.
[03:38] <bddebian>  fs/super.c ? :-)
[03:41] <Rohinton> owh: from kernel 2.2.x http://surprise.sourceforge.net/doc/tech-49.html
[03:43] <Rohinton> owh: struct fat_file has a dirty bit defined?
[03:44] <owh> Rohinton: Yes, but I do not see that inside the kernel anywhere. I suspect that the definition you showed me is in the source code for Partition Surprise.
[03:46] <Rohinton> yes.
[03:48] <owh> bddebian: From what I'm reading is that the higher level abstraction layers have dirty flag support, but I'm not seeing it at the FAT level. There is a reference in fs/fat/fat.c to mark_inode_dirty, but I do not see any code referring to the boot sector actually implementing it.
[03:51] <owh> Or for that matter any reference to the actual flag in the boot sector.
[03:54] <owh> Ultimately, AFAIK the implementation would need to define a flag for dirty here: include/linux/msdos_fs.h, then test/set/clear it somewhere in fs/fat/fat.c
[04:11] <owh> This reference describes in great detail the implementation of FAT. http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/fs/fat/fat-1.html It says that the dirty flag is implemented in the second FAT cluster. Am I looking in the wrong spot if I'm looking in msdos_fs.h?
[04:13] <crimsun> just to note, this is likely the wrong channel. You likely want #ubuntu-kernel.
[04:15] <owh> Any objections to keep at this here for the moment?
[04:15] <jmg> crimsun is right, ubuntu-kernel is where the experts are
[04:17] <crimsun> I don't think anyone would _object_ per se, but the core kernel team's irc clients are not present in this channel, whereas they are in -kernel.
[04:20] <crimsun> it's a pony, duh.
[04:20] <nixternal> haha
[04:20] <ajmitch> ZOMG ponies!
[04:20] <nixternal> I knew it was coming
[04:21] <ajmitch> someone had to
[04:21] <bddebian> ZOMG TASK_BOOTSTRAP_PORT :-)
[04:22] <ajmitch> bddebian: enough of that thanks
[04:22] <Jucato> except for the ponies :D
[04:23] <jdong_> ah, a good sign that you're not with a group of nerds anymore: talking about 3-way-merging results in immature snickers :)
[04:24] <Jucato> O.o
[04:24] <ajmitch> Jucato: never mind, it's jdong_ 
[04:24] <jdong_> lol
[04:24] <jdong_> Jucato knew me before I lost my mind :D
[04:24] <ajmitch> was there such a time?
[04:24] <Jucato> was that before or after the flash fiasco? :D
[04:24] <nixternal> jdong_: how do you lose something you never had?
[04:24] <nixternal> ;p
[04:25] <jdong_> I just used my right-hand programmer's laptop last night...
[04:25] <jdong_> it was a scarring experience....
[04:25] <jdong_> he kinda named all his bzr branches after his former / fantasy girlfriends...
[04:25] <jdong_> so when he used bzr merge... it was a bit more personal.
[04:25] <nixternal> lol
[04:25] <jdong_> and Jucato you bastard ;-)
[04:25] <bddebian> Egads and I thought I was a freak
[04:25] <Jucato> roflmao
[04:25] <nixternal> bddebian: no thinking there, you are a freak!
[04:26] <nixternal> boo
[04:26] <bddebian> :'-(
[04:26] <jdong_> I kinda pretended I didn't see his .bash_history.....
[04:26] <Jucato> but jdong's a bigger freak, methinks :D
[04:26] <jdong_> do I get a trophy for that?
[04:27] <nixternal> history |grep pr0n | wc -l
[04:27] <nixternal> prolly looks like an infinity counter
[04:28] <jdong_> nixternal: and last year I already learned never go find/beagling around another person's computer...
[04:28] <jdong_> somethings are best not known.
[04:28] <nixternal> haha, I know what you mean
[04:28] <owh> jdong_: You could always just add some ignore stuff to their beagle configuration :-)
[04:28] <nixternal> years back I worked as the Midwest Tech Manager for CompUSA. we used to scan everyones puter
[04:29] <nixternal> scary at times
[04:29] <jdong_> owh: somehow I think he needed his beagle to navigate his... collection...
[04:29] <jdong_> :)
[04:29] <owh> ROTFL
[04:29] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: Scan every one that came in for repair you mean?  For what?
[04:29] <jdong_> nixternal: yeah, that'll probably be more than you ever bargained for :D
[04:30] <nixternal> tonyyarusso: exactly what you think :)
[04:30] <owh> jdong_: I suppose it's better than a horse and a girl on a desktop, which is what one of my clients found on an (immediately ex-)employees system.
[04:30] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: that's legal?
[04:30] <nixternal> we had one guy come in who made movies
[04:30] <nixternal> tonyyarusso: probably not, but who is going to know?
[04:30] <tonyyarusso> right
[04:31] <nixternal> the techs had a server they would download it all to, and then burn CDs
[04:31] <jdong_> owh: ok... to let you know how bad this was...
[04:31] <jdong_> we were being sarcastic about looking for porn on his computer
[04:31] <jdong_> so I put into beagle the most ABSURD search I could possible come up with...
[04:31] <jdong_> and it had 65 matches.
[04:31] <nixternal> hahaha
[04:31] <Jucato> heh :D
[04:31] <jdong_> like COMPLETELY ABSURD.... 
[04:32] <jdong_> things that just the filenames would make most people in here vomit.
[04:32] <nixternal> well, if you can stomach tubgirl, nothing will make you vomit
[04:32] <owh> jdong_: Isn't that more a reflection on the nature of the beagle search, rather than the material :-)
[04:33] <owh> jdong_: But I get your point :-)
[04:33] <jdong_> :)
[04:33] <jdong_> the vomiting comes from the realization that the person ENJOYED that
[04:34] <owh> jdong_: I suppose it's better reading about it than doing it...
[04:34] <bddebian> tubgirl... ugh, did you have to bring that up?
[04:35] <owh> crimsun: Any suggestions how I should get some response from ubuntu-kernel?
[04:35] <bddebian> strip naked and run in circles?
[04:36] <owh> bddebian: Hmm, now that's an Idea...
[04:36] <Jucato> strip nekkid and dance in the middle?
[04:36] <welshbyte> ...
[04:36] <owh> bddebian: ... I'll give that a miss.
[04:36] <welshbyte> maybe i should come back later
[04:36] <bddebian> :-)
[04:36] <welshbyte> :)
[04:49] <crimsun> owh: ask during US/EU business hours
[04:51] <owh> crimsun: That would be while I'm sleeping :-)
[05:03] <bddebian> Bah it's only 11pm here and 8 on the left coast ;-P
[05:03] <owh> bddebian: And some in that channel are awake, but I appear to be invisible :-(
[05:03] <bddebian> Join the club :-)
[05:04] <owh> ROTFL
[05:05] <bddebian> heh
[05:06] <Jucato> dang... I don't see my own cloak that much :(
[05:07] <Jucato> shiny pony? :P
[05:08] <ajmitch> hm
[05:08] <ajmitch> bddebian: fixed up universe?
[05:09] <bddebian> suure
[05:10] <ajmitch> how about the rc bugs list?
[05:12] <bddebian> I wish they'd sync the damn things so I could remember where I was :)
[05:12] <ajmitch> sorry
[05:14] <bddebian> Why would you be sorry?
[05:15] <ajmitch> for not having the comments stuff on the bug page
[05:16] <bddebian> Gah, neither does MoM :-)
[05:17] <ajmitch> but I can do something about my page :)
[05:25] <bddebian> ajmitch: Some day I have to have you guys show me how you guys get to that kind of data
[05:25] <ajmitch> oh that's top-secret
[05:25] <bddebian> I want to do some pages like "show me all packages that haven't seen an update in 2 yrs or some such"
[05:26] <ajmitch> hm, that should be trivial
[05:26] <ajmitch> if you compare versions in hoary & feisty, for example
[05:47] <owh> How do I get some progress towards my FAT questions? I've been doing this since December and I'm still not going forward in any meaningful way. I've had excellent commiserations around here, but ultimately, I'm no closer to a resolution. What is the procedure for this?
[05:50] <owh> Am I asking the wrong question in the wrong venue?
[05:51] <tonyyarusso> probably
[05:51] <bddebian> There are few (if any?) kernel hackers in here
[05:51] <bddebian> Isn't there a linux-kernel or kernel-dev channel somewhere on freenode?
[05:52] <welshbyte> might get more attention on a mailing list, that way you're not depending on people being awake :)
[05:52] <owh> welshbyte: I started with emails to ubuntu-dev and to ubuntu-dev-discuss, both with no response at all.
[05:53] <welshbyte> ah ok
[05:53] <owh> I also emailed the maintainer for dosfstools with the same result.
[05:53] <bddebian> Welcome to "Free Software" :-)
[05:53] <owh> I wrote a spec and asked for feedback and got nada.
[05:54] <owh> bddebian: Why do I feel so underwhelmed :)
[05:54] <joejaxx> Toadstool: are you around?
[05:57] <bddebian> owh: It can be frustrating at times.  Keep trying, you'll get somewhere.
[05:58] <bddebian> ajmitch: Where'd you get cacti 1.8.10 from?  I don't see it in incoming.  Is it in experimental?
[05:58] <ajmitch> bddebian: no
[05:58] <ajmitch> look at the bug (I've explained this one before)
[05:59] <bddebian> to me?
[05:59] <ajmitch> yep
[06:00] <ajmitch> 07:36 < bddebian> Gah, frick, I missed that :-)
[06:00] <ajmitch> 07:36 -!- schultmc [i=schultmc@nat/progeny/x-b5f503beafd4a51d]  has joined #ubuntu-motu
[06:00] <ajmitch> 07:37 < ajmitch> ignore ones like cacti
[06:00] <ajmitch> yay for grep
[06:00] <ajmitch> 07:37 < ajmitch> where the bug was reported in one package & fixed in another
[06:00] <joejaxx> ajmitch: Lol
[06:01] <bddebian> Damn getting old sucks
[06:01] <ajmitch> yep
[06:01] <owh> bddebian: Thanks for the pick-me-up.
[06:02] <bddebian> owh: I run into it a lot because I try to do a lot of things with GNU/Hurd that are WAY over my head and I tend to annoy people with it :)
[06:03] <Toadstool> joejaxx: 'sup? don't have much time tonight though
[06:04] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[06:04] <Toadstool> hey bddebian 
[06:04] <joejaxx> hello Toadstool :)
[06:05] <bddebian> Who's working on audacity again?
[06:06] <bddebian> Is jumping a distro supported?  I.E. something like dapper to feisty?
[06:06] <ajmitch> no
[06:06] <bddebian> didn't think so.  Is it OK if I reject a bug for that?
[06:06] <Rohinton> owh: sorry just got back from my pack meeting (BSA )....
[06:07] <ajmitch> depends if the bug is caused by that
[06:07] <owh> Rohinton: I'm still here :)
[06:07] <bddebian> Bug #96143
[06:07] <ubotu> Malone bug 96143 in roundup "problems when upgrading to feisty from dapper using gui" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96143
[06:07] <Rohinton> owh: So you should propose and do something and get it included...
[06:08] <Toadstool> bddebian: a friend of mine completely broke his system with a dapper -> feisty dist-upgrade
[06:08] <owh> bddebian: IMHO it should just work, so personally I wouldn't reject based on that.
[06:10] <bddebian> owh: You are on crack :-)
[06:10] <owh> bddebian: Excellent. I didn't know that.
[06:10] <Toadstool> gar, just reattached my screen to quickly check my emails and I end up on IRC :)
[06:11] <Toadstool> got to go, cya
[06:11] <owh> Rohinton: Well I proposed and got nada. I'd rather not do something until I understand that what I proposed is in fact correct :-)
[06:11] <bddebian> later Toadstool
[06:11] <Rohinton> bddebian: I am disappointed with the hurd, they seem to have lost the way... maybe everyone's busy but the irc's are very quite...
[06:12] <owh> Rohinton: I suspect that if I actually write something, I'll still get nada, but then I'll have spent time writing it too.
[06:12] <bddebian> Rohinton: This time of day it is, yes
[06:12] <bddebian> well that Debian bug is stupid
[06:13] <welshbyte> europe should start waking up in about 2 hours
[06:13] <welshbyte> which means i should've been asleep for the last 6 :/
[06:13] <Rohinton> bddebian: europe? is that the main stay fopr hurd?
[06:14] <bddebian> Rohinton: We have a lot of Germans and such, yes
[06:14] <Rohinton> owh: you should do something - if people like it it will get attention...
[06:14] <Rohinton> owh: then the v+ and v- feedback will happen
[06:14] <owh> Rohinton: If people like it, then it should have already gotten attention :-)
[06:15] <owh> Ok, lemmie ask this. Is this how it always goes? You ask for feedback and get nada, you write code and hope that someone notices?
[06:15] <bddebian> Gah, screw roundup :-(
[06:15] <Rohinton> bddebian: I was under the mistaken impression that the USA was the "hub"
[06:16] <bddebian> hahaha
[06:16] <Rohinton> owh: yep - 
[06:16] <Rohinton> owh: LOL
[06:16] <bddebian> Well I guess when Roland, Thomas Bushnell and Neal were still involved, it probably was
[06:18] <bddebian> Hmm, forget about wxwindows2.4
[06:18] <Rohinton> bddebian: who are the driving forces now?
[06:19] <bddebian> Rohinton: Well, that is a damn fine question :'-(
[06:19] <owh> :)
[06:20] <Rohinton> bddebian: I would like to see hurd pickup, ut also debian-hurd seem a little slow...
[06:20] <Rohinton> bddebian: s/ut/but/
[06:21] <owh> Rohinton: Thanks for your encouragement. I'm going to feed my face and have a think about how I'd best actually write the code that does this.
[06:21] <Rohinton> bddebian: I am not sure if the effort and the motivation is there still....
[06:21] <Rohinton> owh: my pleasure...
[06:24] <bddebian> Rohinton: #debian-hurd?
[06:24] <Rohinton> bddebian: yes
[06:24] <bddebian> owh: I don't have the skills and I just piss everyone becaue I have no patience
[06:25] <bddebian> Rohinton: I didn't even know that channel was still around.  Most of us hang around in #hurd
[06:25] <owh> bddebian: Well, you've displayed patience with me today, so if you have none, that means you're making progress :)
[06:25] <bddebian> owh: I mean I don't have patience for stupid shit.  For example our glibc code needs some serious lovin' but no one works on it.
[06:25] <Rohinton> bddebian: maybe the first thing is to get people from ##hurd #hurd and #debian-hurd to talk and see if this is really going to fly...
[06:26] <bddebian> Rohinton: Most of them are all on the same page in #hurd. ##hurd mainly exists because of 1 individual.
[06:26] <Rohinton> bddebian: There lots of pressure from other OSs and there has to be motivation/innovation and direction.
[06:27] <Rohinton> bddebian: would you like to clarify?
[06:27] <owh> bddebian: In the words of Rohinton: "you should do something - if people like it it will get attention..."
[06:27] <owh> :)
[06:27] <bddebian> Rohinton: Well that's part of the problem. We have about 3 different paths now.  One persion is writing a new mach-compatible kernel, marcus is leaning back towards l4.sec and I think neal still likes Coyotos
[06:28] <bddebian> owh: I try, but as I said, I seriously lack the skills
[06:28] <Rohinton> owh: well yes I agree and I am trying - I started talking to rooty - but have not heard ( no pun ) from him again....
[06:28] <Rohinton> bddebian: that's why there has to be direction...
[06:29] <bddebian> Rohinton: rooty thinks RMS is the saviour and RMS couldn't give a shit about GNU/Hurd.  Anyway, this is really the wrong channel for this discussion.
[06:29] <Rohinton> bddebian: I was surprised to see that L4 was now in question....
[06:29] <bddebian> It stalled a long time ago
[06:30] <Rohinton> bddebian: Yea sorry - 
[06:30] <bddebian> Rohinton: I don't mind but I'm sure others head's are about to expldode.  Right ajmitch? ;-)
[06:30] <jmg> jej
[06:30] <jmg> hurd
[06:30] <Rohinton> bddebian: as it's quite... :-)
[06:31] <ajmitch> bddebian: no, I was out of the office for a few minutes
[06:31] <ajmitch> & I'll just continue ignoring -motu
[06:31] <bddebian> :-)
[06:31] <Rohinton> please put me out of my misery and explain the ##hurd, let's do it on a private line...
[06:32] <jmg> why do i get forwarded to #ubuntu-unregged
[06:32] <bddebian> Because you haven't registered your nick?
[06:32] <jmg> but i have?
[06:32] <jmg> 16:41 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- You have already identified
[06:32] <bddebian> Hmm weird
[06:38] <boss-bcp> Hello everyone.
[06:38] <jmg> hii boss-bcp 
[06:39] <boss-bcp> Before I submit a few beta tested packages, can I have some hardened veterans of this business check a few packages for me? I tested them myself and asked a few friends to test them out and so far, no one's machine has been scarred.
[06:44] <jmg> what packages?
[06:45] <boss-bcp> One package: libpam-cups provides secure authentication to SMB/IPP backend CUPS and libpam-script which allows script execution at session open/close and authorization.
[06:45] <jmg> boss-bcp: and you based your packages on the existing pam ones
[06:46] <jmg> using dh_installpam?
[06:47] <boss-bcp> jmg: On libpam0g yes.
[06:47] <jmg> sounds good
[06:47] <jmg> URL?
[06:48] <boss-bcp> I'll upload them in a second. What exactly would you like? Just the Debian packages or the source packages as well?
[06:48] <jmg> throw both up
[06:50] <boss-bcp> Both packages were alpha tested by me both through pbuilder and the old fashioned way. A few friends who are relatively good with Ubuntu beta tested the packages. The URL: http://team254.bcp.org/packages.tar.gz
[07:00] <boss-bcp> jmg: A few things to consider for libpam-cups... /usr/bin/pam_cups_spool comes by default with the sticky bit on (removing it will cause the package to cease properly functioning). update-alternatives is used in a bit unorthodox way so as to ln stuff in /usr/lib/cups/backend properly. Other than that, it's a pretty standard package.
[07:05] <boss-bcp> jmg: Also to clear up any confusion, I am not the upstream author on either of these packages.
[07:07] <boss-bcp> s/sticky bit/setuid bit/
[07:19] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:19] <welshbyte> night bddebian 
[07:19] <Jucato> g'night bddebian
[08:15] <boss-bcp> jmg: Let me know how that all works out for you.
[08:40] <joejaxx> ajmitch: is doko ever around?
[08:44] <cypher1> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html -- are these targeted for Feisty RC ?
[08:46] <Fujitsu> cypher1: They're targetted for whenever they can be done.
[08:46] <Fujitsu> The -rc bit means `release critical' in Debian.
[08:47] <joejaxx> :)
[08:47] <cypher1> Fujitsu: i thought Release Candidate :)
[08:47] <cypher1> Fujitsu: most of them are syncs or merges right ? then what is the problem ?
[08:49] <cypher1> Fujitsu: cannot we use M-o-M for those defects ?
[08:51] <Fujitsu> Firstly, MoM is turned off. Secondly, MoM lists everything.
[08:52] <cypher1> Fujitsu: so how do one fix these ?
[08:53] <cypher1> Fujitsu: do they have to manually do what MoM used to do ?
[08:53] <Fujitsu> cypher1: You need to merge/sync the packages... Probably manually, as MoM was broken/off last time I checked.
[08:53] <cypher1> Fujitsu: thanks
[09:39] <doko> joejaxx: ?
[09:40] <\sh> moins
[10:02] <jussi01> morning motus, could someone tell me if there is a way to test install a package with out actually installing it on your system?
[10:02] <TheMuso> jussi01: You could use a chroot
[10:02] <jussi01> TheMuso, how would I do that, I hve pbuilder installed...
[10:03] <TheMuso> jussi01: No its not to do with pbuilder. Have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[10:04] <jussi01> TheMuso, thanks
[10:06] <viviersf> ajmitch, ping
[10:10] <dholbach> hello
[10:10] <AstralJava> Hi there Daniel.
[10:10] <AstralJava> How're things?
[10:13] <dholbach> hey AstralJava
[10:14] <dholbach> quite good - how are you?
[10:14] <AstralJava> Fine, thanks. UbuntuStudio artwork packages are ready and in testing. :) Thanks again for your work.
[10:16] <AstralJava> Had a little problem with Makefile.am in the iconset thingie, but TheMuso worked it out, and I'm well on my way in the learning process now. Just wanted to let you know, you guys rock. :)
[10:17] <dholbach> thanks
[10:17] <dholbach> if you guys want those packages in, get them in NOW
[10:17] <dholbach> we're all very busy atm, so if you don't hurry it will be feisty+1 for ubuntustudio packages
[10:17] <dholbach> ask on ubuntu-motu@ for assistance getting you through the process
[10:18] <AstralJava> I'm not sure _MMA_ wants them in the repos currently. I think we're aiming at Feisty+1 at the moment.
[10:18] <AstralJava> But we'll talk about that soon. We need more testing still.
[10:19] <dholbach> ok
[10:20] <AstralJava> Now I'm looking at easy tasks that seb128 has been throwing at ubuntu-motu@, and bitesize tagged bugs in LP. Wanna be a MOTU hopeful. :)
[10:45] <pochu> Amaranth: what do you think about bug 92136? (there is more discussion in one duplicate)
[10:45] <ubotu> Malone bug 92136 in desktop-effects "Button in desktop effects dialog does not switch its text between "enable desktop effects" and "disable desktop effects"" [Low,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92136
[10:45] <jussi01> hei motus. how should this command look for feisty?  sudo sed -i s/dapper/breezy/g /var/chroot/etc/apt/sources.list
[10:46] <jussi01> (im configuring chroot)
[10:47] <jussi01> nm, i figured it out...
[10:47] <jussi01> :D
[10:51] <Lathiat_> ** Tags added: atheros avahi dlink hal wifi                                     
[11:10] <dholbach> TheMuso: are we going for lsr 0.5.0?
[11:12] <TheMuso> dholbach: I am not worried about it. I haven't been asked by upstream about it, as they knew we had a freeze quite a while ago. And the demand for it is not that great, so I will do it next cycle.
[11:12] <dholbach> ok
[11:12] <dholbach> thanks
[11:12] <TheMuso> np
[12:22] <pochu> slomo_: new liferea release, fixes a crash
[12:23] <ajmitch> hi
[12:23] <pochu> hi ajmitch
[12:41] <pochu> slomo_: liferea 1.2.10b: bug 98532 (needs approval)
[12:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 98532 in liferea "[UVFe]  Liferea 1.2.10b" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98532
[12:47] <pochu> slomo_: approved :)
[12:49] <TheMuso> ooo nice. Requestsync is now going to be in devscripts.
[12:53] <pochu> TheMuso: I suppose it's useful to request a sync :) isn't it?
[12:53] <TheMuso> pochu: Yeah. Its a script many of us have been using for a long while now.
[12:57] <jwendell> TheMuso, good morning
[12:57] <TheMuso> jwendell: Hi.
[12:57] <jwendell> TheMuso, a curiosity: why did you remove java6 for sparc?
[12:58] <TheMuso> jwendell: I didn't remove it for sparc.
[12:58] <jwendell> TheMuso, sorry, powerpc
[12:59] <TheMuso> Because the most recent version of sun-java6 did not build on powerpc, and a bug report was filed about it.
[12:59] <TheMuso> And it wasn't included even when there was java5 in the original package.
[01:02] <jwendell> TheMuso, oh, right
[01:02] <jwendell> TheMuso, a doubt: if that build has failed, shouldn't it be hidden from that page: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/sun-java6 ?
[01:03] <jwendell> TheMuso, look at the line: sun-java6-jre  (amd64)   (hppa)   (i386)   (ia64)   (powerpc)   (sparc)
[01:03] <TheMuso> jwendell: I don't know, and I'd rather not be the one taking the decisions on such a big package.
[01:04] <jwendell> dholbach, do you have the answer?
[01:05] <dholbach> https://beta.launchpad.net/+builds/+build/300914
[01:06] <StevenK> I find it curious that it was sucessful on ia64
[01:07] <TheMuso> dholbach: I saw that earlier, and it fails because it calls a binary that is for a different CPU arch.
[01:07] <dholbach> jwendell: answer to what question?
[01:08] <jwendell> dholbach, , a doubt: if that build has failed, shouldn't it be hidden from that page: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/sun-java6 ?
[01:08] <jwendell> dholbach, look at the line: sun-java6-jre  (amd64)   (hppa)   (i386)   (ia64)   (powerpc)   (sparc)
[01:08] <dholbach> does it link to an older version of the package?
[01:08] <jwendell> dholbach, if sparc build failed, shouldn't be hidden from that line?
[01:08] <dholbach> does it link to an older version of the package?
[01:09] <jwendell> dholbach, i don't know... i guess not
[01:10] <dholbach> it's an ALL package
[01:10] <dholbach> so that's for all architectures
[01:10] <dholbach> it should not be hidden if you ask me
[01:11] <dholbach> but better to ask in #launchpad
[01:45] <TheMuso> c
[01:45] <TheMuso> gah
[01:51] <\sh> did anybody played around with nfs4 and dapper kernels?
[02:07] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[02:08] <jwendell> TheMuso, what time is there?
[02:09] <TheMuso> jwendell: 10:08 PM
[02:09] <jwendell> wow
[02:10] <jwendell> TheMuso, i would ask you for take a look at my packages, but... go to bed :)
[02:12] <TheMuso> jwendell: I will tomorrow. I was going to today, but I got side tracked. :)
[02:12] <StevenK> jwendell: I can look at one.
[02:14] <RAOF> Is there any way to get a package automatically rebuilt whenever one of its dependencies is rebuillt?
[02:14] <jwendell> TheMuso, thanks
[02:14] <jwendell> StevenK, thanks
[02:14] <RAOF> Or rather, a specific dependency?
[02:14] <StevenK> RAOF: I doubt it.
[02:14] <ubotu> Malone bug 97661 in compiz-extra "Loading any Compiz-Extra plugins causes Compiz to segfault" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97661
[02:14] <StevenK> jwendell: I'll need a link. :-)
[02:15] <jwendell> StevenK, https://launchpad.net/~wendell/+assignedbugs?search=Search&field.status=In+Progress
[02:16] <RAOF> StevenK: Fair enough.  I'll just put a strict version in the dependency field then.
[02:17] <ajmitch> fun
[02:29] <RAOF> Well, that was odd.  Some process went mad and decided to use all my memory.
[02:29] <ajmitch> it can happen
[02:29] <ajmitch> especially if you run without swap, like I do
[02:30] <racarr> RAOF: while(fork()) malloc(fork()) ?
[02:30] <ajmitch> though I've never seen the kernel kill a process due to lack of RAM
[02:30] <RAOF> Well, I *have* swap, so what it did was make my system unusably slow :(
[02:31] <ajmitch> just get more RAM ;)
[02:31] <ajmitch> firefox: why people need > 2GB RAM
[02:31] <RAOF> ajmitch: Do you think an acceptable solution to bug #97661 is to depend on the current exact version of compiz?
[02:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 97661 in compiz-extra "Loading any Compiz-Extra plugins causes Compiz to segfault" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97661
[02:31] <StevenK> firefox and openoffice: why people need > 3.5GB RAM addressable
[02:32] <RAOF> That way, rather than annoying crashes, people will simply get unsatisfied dependencies?
[02:32] <TheMuso> StevenK: lol
[02:32] <shawarma> Well, the proper fix would be to actually track when the abi changes. :-p
[02:32] <ajmitch> RAOF: that's a nasty hackish way, why does compiz' plugin interface change?
[02:33] <TheMuso> Just tell em to use elinks and latex.
[02:33] <ajmitch> StevenK: agreed
[02:33] <racarr> ajmitch: Err, the way the plugin interface works...changing ANYTHING and not changing the plugin interface is kind of impossible
[02:33] <RAOF> ajmitch: No idea.  But it does, and it has.
[02:33] <ajmitch> racarr: but in a 'stable' release?
[02:34] <RAOF> ajmitch: Feisty's compiz package hasn't been stable, code wise.
[02:34] <racarr> Well, it shouldn't in a 'stable' release, but eh
[02:34] <racarr> someone probably just added a variable to Comp(Display|Screen|Window)
[02:34] <ajmitch> and we ship this in main, why?
[02:34] <RAOF> Bling forever!
[02:34] <ajmitch> kill the bling
[02:34] <racarr> RAOF: Btw Amaranth and I have been talking and are not sure it is a great idea to stick compiz-extras in universe...
[02:34] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee 
[02:34] <ajmitch> racarr: why not?
[02:35] <racarr> ajmitch: Because it's mostly Beryl plugins that got ported IMMEDIATELY after they were written and haven't really been maintained since
[02:35] <RAOF> racarr: It's there now.  Oh, and it's totally broken.
[02:35] <ajmitch> worrying
[02:35] <racarr> as in, it's unmaintained Beryl plugins, winrules, and mouse gestures
[02:35] <shawarma> racarr: Oh, i thought you meant it should be in main instead.
[02:35] <racarr> shawarma: No, definitely not :p
[02:36] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[02:38] <zul> hey ajmitch 
[02:38] <racarr> ajmitch: I don't know how big of a deal it is...it might make sense to patch out the worst of it though
[02:39] <ajmitch> hi zul 
[02:40] <StevenK> jwendell: zapping uploaded.
[02:40] <jwendell> StevenK, thanks
[02:48] <zul> has anyone got the "binary file contents changed" error before and now how to fix it?
[02:49] <Fujitsu> zul: The solution is to not change the contents of binary files.
[02:50] <zul> yeah thats not a solution
[02:51] <Fujitsu> Well, it's the only way you're going to fix it...
[02:54] <zul> fine no firmware then
[02:54] <Fujitsu> You'll have to base64 encode it or similar.
[03:09] <siretart> zul: binary only firmware is evil [tm]  anyways
[03:09] <zul> siretart: its for the xen kernel
[03:09] <Fujitsu> Still Evil(r).
[03:09] <siretart> zul: what has xen to do with binary only firmware?
[03:09] <siretart> good night, Fujitsu 
[03:10] <Fujitsu> Night siretart, zul.
[03:11] <zul> siretart: when you want to use ipw2100 
[03:12] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[03:18] <jwendell> TheMuso, night
[03:23] <shawarma> zul: The usual solution is to put a base64 or uuencoded version in the debian dir and uudecode it in debian/rules at a proper time.
[03:24] <zul> shawarma: yeah Im going to do that
[03:24] <zul> thanks
[03:24] <shawarma> zul: np
[03:57] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:57] <Jucato> hiya bddebian!
[03:57] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[04:06] <Jucato> gnomefreak: could you please elaborate about that copyright thing?
[04:07] <gnomefreak> Jucato: ok i talked to mvo last night he said it will be fixed in nvidia-glx. i dont think we will be able to add support to nvidia-glx due to restricted licence so they might just make it easy upgrade or keep you at same or drop you to legacy
[04:07] <Jucato> hm... I kinda don't understand... will this happen to all nvidia-glx drivers?
[04:08] <gnomefreak> but AFAIK there hasnt been a sure way to fix this yet
[04:08] <gnomefreak> Jucato: it will happen with the cards that are no longer supported
[04:09] <somerville32> moo
[04:09] <Jucato> hm... 
[04:09] <gnomefreak> it will know when its not supported. maybe automagicly set vesa in xorg.conf and give you message to use legacy IMHO will work
[04:10] <Jucato> ok... this is kinda confusing for me... sorry if I don't get it right... nvidia-glx-legacy, which has the 71xx driver will be supported. nvidia-glx, containing the 97xx driver will also be supported. but all the rest in between (96xx) will not?
[04:11] <sloof3> Could someone look at this bug: 97603 I don't think the Debian Developer will see it.
[04:11] <gnomefreak> Jucato: they might keep 96xx for gf4 cards. i dont think that has been decided on how it will be fixed
[04:11] <gnomefreak> bug 97603
[04:11] <ubotu> Malone bug 97603 in cgiirc "CGIIRC 0.5.9-2 backport request to dapper (0.5.4-6sarge) from feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97603
[04:12] <crimsun> that's a -security candidate, not a -backport
[04:13] <gnomefreak> IMHO this is the biggest mistake by nvidia ive seen in years. gf4 cards are very affordable/widely used stopping support for them is hurting alot of users
[04:13] <gnomefreak> my 2 fx5200 card were <90.00 USD each
[04:14] <gnomefreak> but that isnt gf4 its just a gf card
[04:14] <crimsun> gnomefreak: "mistake" in this context must be evaluated in terms of their engineering. I'm not standing up for them, but there's likely a set of solid tech reasons to stop supporting them.
[04:20] <Jucato> I guess what's done is done... I'm just concerned on how much this will affect our users... I mean, good thing there's something like envy... but official packages would till be the best option imho...
[04:20] <gnomefreak> crimsun: oh im sure there is and i used mistake as a personal opinion not fact. tech reason that comes to mind they added something to thier drivers to make it better and gf4 doesnt have the ability to use
[04:20] <gnomefreak> deos envy choice the driver you need?
[04:20] <gnomefreak> does. choose
[04:20] <Jucato> I think it does. actually I haven't used it personally
[04:20] <Jucato> neither do I. but unless this "problem" is resolved before the release, users will have no choice but to rely on envy or um.. automatix...
[04:20] <gnomefreak> easyubuntu autocraptix and envy i dont touch in all its easier to install from our sources
[04:20] <gnomefreak> Jucato: will be fixed before release just not sure how it will be fixed
[04:20] <sloof3> crimsun: What do you want me to do then?
[04:20] <Jucato> gnomefreak: well, that's part of the problem :)
[04:20] <gnomefreak> Jucato: this is one of those things that IMHO have to be fixed
[04:20] <Jucato> gnomefreak: yes. seriously... or else we're going to have a lot of broken X's
[04:20] <gnomefreak> yep and mark pushed for beryl to get in (after freeze) so nvidia is big part of it so i dont see why it wouldnt get fixed
[04:20] <sloof3> crimsun: How do I correct this?
[04:20] <gnomefreak> build it with security fixes in it and send it to revu maybe
[04:22] <crimsun> sloof3: backport the fixes from the current feisty source package to the current dapper source package.
[04:22] <crimsun> sloof3: attach a debdiff to the bug so that it can be reviewed
[04:23] <sloof3> crimsun: I don't have experience with that yet.  I was just reporting a bug.
[04:25] <sloof3> crimsun: OK.  debdiffs are easier than I thought.
[04:26] <sloof3> crimsun: evand hit me with a cluebat.
[04:43] <bddebian> heh
[05:13] <jussi01> hei motu's, 1 quick question, what package am i missing if i get this mesage: checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
[05:13] <jussi01> make: *** [config.status]  Error 1
[05:16] <Hobbsee> lib-xml-parser-perl or something
[05:16] <Hobbsee> do an apt-cache search xml parser perl
[05:16] <bddebian> Dah, Hobbsee beat me to it
[05:16] <Hobbsee> pick the closest :)
[05:16] <Hobbsee> jussi01: so, libxml-parser-perl
[05:16] <DarkSun88> jussi01: See this link: http://www.karakas-online.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3915
[05:16] <sacater> im very sad at the moment, my little cat was hit by a car today
[05:17] <jussi01> thanks lads - sacater sad to hear about th cat
[05:24] <sacater> we got her from someone who was part of the 'cats protection orginisation'. If we hadnt taken her she would have died at only 4 months, until the car came she had 3 years of happiness, at that centre it was terrible
[05:29] <welshbyte> what's the preferred way of sending .desktop files to debian? email the maintainer or file a bug or ...?
[05:31] <bddebian> Send them upstream :-)
[05:32] <welshbyte> i would but the package doesn't seem to be under development any more... "This is the last official stable release by the author" :)
[05:34] <bddebian> welshbyte: Ah, yeah stick it on Debian BTS then
[05:34] <shawarma> welshbyte: Which package?
[05:34] <welshbyte> fceu
[05:34] <shawarma> welshbyte: ok
[05:34] <welshbyte> bddebian: ok, thanks
[05:40] <jussi01> could someone explain/point me to a link about how to get a package into the repos? (i have something I would like in... I assume its too late for fiesty...) thanks...
[05:45] <bddebian> jussi01: Post it to REVU
[05:48] <welshbyte> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU if you need it
[05:49] <jussi01> welshbyte, i did... thanks
[05:56] <jussi01> could someone please re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
[06:05] <jussi01> Hell MOTU's, Im sorry to bother again... im getting an error with my gpg key, can someone tell me whats wrong? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12762/
[06:07] <Hobbsee> jussi01: that's....interesting
[06:07] <Hobbsee> jussi01: what are teh permissinos on .gnupg/ ?
[06:08] <LaserJock> oh freaking heck!
[06:08] <Hobbsee> heya LaserJock!
[06:08] <LaserJock> kinda
[06:08] <Hobbsee> jussi01: ie, would root happen to own it?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: ouch...how?
[06:08] <LaserJock> SRU
[06:08] <Hobbsee> ah
[06:08] <LaserJock> I broke Edgy Main
[06:09] <jussi01> Hobbsee, ahh...yes root does...
[06:09] <jussi01> what should the permissions be?
[06:09] <jussi01> and the quick way to fix it?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> lssarah@LongPointyStick:~$ ls -la .gnupg/
[06:09] <Hobbsee> total 156
[06:09] <Hobbsee> drwxr-xr-x  2 sarah sarah  4096 2007-03-30 02:05 .
[06:09] <Hobbsee> chown user.user -R .gnupg/
[06:09] <Hobbsee> sudo chown user.user -R .gnupg/
[06:09] <Hobbsee> dunno about the permissions, per se - that's what mine are
[06:10] <lupine_85> permissions need to be & 700
[06:10] <lupine_85> IIRC
[06:10] <lupine_85> (might be getting mixed up with ssh)
[06:10] <Hobbsee> lupine_85: that leaves no read access for normal users, iirc.  which means you have to do all signing with sudo
[06:11] <Hobbsee> which isnt exactly optimal
[06:12] <lupine_85> well, you don't want anyone but the owning user to be reading the private key, I'm sure ;)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> true that
[06:12] <lupine_85> my perms are drwx------  3 lupine lupine   4096 2007-03-28 20:22 .gnupg
[06:12] <Hobbsee> which is why you dont leave your private key on a build farm
[06:12] <Hobbsee> lupine_85: can you sign without using sudo, then?
[06:12] <jussi01> thank you people, it now seems to work...
[06:13] <lupine_85> Hobbsee: if I signed using sudo, it'd use /root/.gnupg, surely?
[06:13] <Hobbsee> lupine_85: good point.  i'd say so
[06:14] <lupine_85> and I can sign without using sudo, yes
[06:14] <Hobbsee> neat
[06:23] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:23] <LaserJock> I didn't break Min
[06:23] <LaserJock> *main
[06:29] <nixternal> congratulations LaserJock!
[06:30] <LaserJock> and now I get to right as nice comment to this user complaining about how we screwed up
[06:30] <LaserJock> s/right/write/
[06:31] <LaserJock> nixternal: hi, btw
[06:31] <nixternal> hola LaserJock 
[06:31] <LaserJock> nixternal: how's it going?
[06:31] <nixternal> I am sitting in this class bored out of my mind
[06:31] <nixternal> Programming & Logic, and the teacher is teaching VB. I don't want to learn it, so I am bored
[06:32] <nixternal> how is everything with you?
[06:33] <LaserJock> got edubuntu-docs uploaded
[06:33] <LaserJock> and some changes from ogra commited
[06:33] <nixternal> rock on!
[06:34] <nixternal> LaserJock: I will be able to help a little more for feisty+1 on that since Kubuntu docs are about 75% to 80% of where I really want them
[06:34] <nixternal> and we won't have KDE4, so nothing much will probably change
[06:38] <nixternal> jussi01: I have uploaded plenty to revu, and they were all full of problems :)
[06:38] <jussi01> nixternal, :D that makes me feel better, thanks
[06:40] <nixternal> no problem
[06:52] <jussi01> siretart, \sh or ajmitch, I uploaded a package to REVU about 10/15 mins ago, and it hasnt shown up. have I made an error?
[06:53] <LaserJock> jussi01: what's the package name?
[06:53] <jussi01> gsopcast
[06:54] <jussi01> ahh... found it, I got an email...
[07:05] <jussi01> oh no... Im really sorry to be bothering you all with stupid little things... the email i got back said: Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution
[07:05] <jussi01> :(
[07:06] <jussi01> the distribution I have in the changelog is feisty. (do I need a capital there?)
[07:06] <zul> are you in the revu keychain?
[07:06] <ScottK> jussi01: Did you send it to REVU or to the main repository?
[07:07] <jussi01> ScottK, I just used the standard dput command...
[07:07] <ScottK> Then you sent it to the main repository probably (I've done this)
[07:07] <zul> then you probably didnt upload to the right repository
[07:07] <ScottK> dput revu ....  should get it to the right place.
[07:07] <jussi01> ahhhh, thank you all so much!!!
[07:09] <jussi01> also, I just noticed I have a slight error, W: gsopcast source: changelog-should-mention-nmu - how do I fix this?
[07:12] <jussi01> what is nmu?
[07:12] <welshbyte> non-maintainer upload. i think it's debian specific so you needn't worry about it
[07:13] <jussi01> welshbyte, thanks
[07:21] <LaserJock> jussi01: a NMU is when somebody who is not the maintainer does an upload of a package
[07:22] <LaserJock> in Debian, since each package has a maintainer, there are rules for doing that
[07:22] <LaserJock> in Ubuntu, since anybody can touch a package it doesn't really apply to us
[07:22] <\sh> guys, do we have a ubuntu vdr project or something like this? 
[07:22] <jussi01> LaserJock, aahh, thank you for the explanation. 
[07:24] <LaserJock> mwuahaha
[07:24] <LaserJock> you'd think for as long as I've been using it I would have figured out how to do more than one window at a time
[07:25] <\sh> ctrl+a c == new window ;) or do you mean split screen?
[07:27] <jussi01> hmmm, package still hasnt turned up, wonder what I screwed up this time...
[07:28] <\sh> jussi01: are you in the revu gpg keychain?
[07:28] <LaserJock> \sh: no, just a new window
[07:28] <LaserJock> :-)
[07:29] <\sh> LaserJock: that's ctrl-a c ;)
[07:29] <\sh> and ctrl-a a switches in between or ctrl-a <0-9> ,-)
[07:29] <jussi01> \sh, Im not certain - I applied earlier, but I dont know if its been updated yet
[07:30] <LaserJock> \sh: yes, it's just taken me a year of using screen to get there ;-)
[07:31] <\sh> LaserJock: the tool of the century ;)
[07:33] <zul> er...how do you split a screen in screen?
[07:33] <Lathiat_> ^a-S
[07:33] <Lathiat_> ^a-TAB to flick between them
[07:33] <\sh> and a beer...good to know that I have some in our hardware shelf
[07:34] <jussi01> \sh, has the keyring been updated recently?
[07:36] <LaserJock> oh my gosh!
[07:36] <LaserJock> irssi on top, mutt on the bottom
[07:36] <LaserJock> I love screen!
[07:36] <ConstyXIV> who doesn't?
[07:38] <zul> 4
[07:38] <zul> oops
[07:40] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
[07:41] <joejaxx> Toadstool: we have partial session support through slim.conf now :)
[07:42] <Toadstool> joejaxx: awesome!
[07:42] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[07:43] <joejaxx> Toadstool: Good Morning :)
[07:43] <jussi01> morning Toadstool 
[07:43] <Toadstool> hey joejaxx and jussi01 
[07:45] <jussi01> hei Toadstool, anything new/good happening?
[07:46] <Toadstool> er... life's been crazy lately
[07:50] <\sh> jussi01: I don't know...I'm not an revu admin anymore ...
[07:50] <LaserJock> jussi01: I'm syncing the keyring right now, just to make sure
[07:50] <jussi01> LaserJock, thanks
[07:51] <jussi01> \sh your still listed on the revu page
[07:51] <\sh> jussi01: right...I need to change it, or get my powers back...
[07:51] <jussi01> :D
[07:54] <jussi01> LaserJock, do i need to re-upload the package?
[07:59] <LaserJock> jussi01: yes please
[08:02] <jussi01> LaserJock, it tells me its already there, and if i try the -f option, it give me an error
[08:04] <rexbron> dholbach: could you look at bug 97581
[08:04] <ubotu> Malone bug 97581 in murrine "[UVFe]  murrine 0.52" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97581
[08:05] <LaserJock> jussi01: what's your LP id?
[08:06] <jussi01> LaserJock, jussi01 
[08:06] <jussi01> :D
[08:07] <LaserJock> jussi01: try it now with the -f
[08:08] <jussi01> LaserJock, that seems to have worked
[08:10] <LaserJock> bigon: did your fai-kernels upload to REVU work?
[08:33] <jussi01> LaserJock, It still doesnt look like its arrived... :(
[08:34] <ScottK> jussi01: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4755
[08:35] <jussi01> ScottK, yay... now why didnt i see that...
[08:39] <ScottK> jussi01: Are you up for some feedback?
[08:39] <jussi01> ScottK, sure!!!!
[08:40] <ScottK> If you look in debian/copyright, there is some generic boilerplate left at the end.  That should be cleaned up.
[08:41] <ScottK> You've also got a completely generic README.Debian.  You either need to add stuff or remove the file.
[08:43] <jussi01> ok, fixed both of them...:D
[08:43] <LaserJock> Adri2000: why do you need MoM output?
[08:43] <Adri2000> mpd
[08:43] <LaserJock> what about it?
[08:44] <jussi01> ScottK, when i re-upload, I should be using the -f option I assume?
[08:44] <Adri2000> to fix bug #96569
[08:44] <ubotu> Malone bug 96569 in mpd "not built with pulseaudio support" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96569
[08:44] <LaserJock> Adri2000: surely you don't need MoM output to do that
[08:44] <Adri2000> and some other fixes that are in debian
[08:44] <LaserJock> just merge it
[08:44] <ScottK> jussi01: Yes, but don't do it yet.  I have more.
[08:44] <jussi01> ok:D
[08:45] <Adri2000> LaserJock: yes I can, and I'll probably do, but it would be easier with MoM
[08:45] <Adri2000> which has been broken for a long time now...
[08:45] <LaserJock> well
[08:45] <LaserJock> it's not normally run after UVF
[08:46] <ScottK> jussi01: Linda and Lintian both complain about your use of config.status and hint at a need to work on your clean rule.  I'm not an expert on that, but that looks worth looking into.  http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gsopcast-0703291425/lintian
[08:46] <LaserJock> I don't think it's useful to have MoM running after UVF
[08:46] <LaserJock> we'd just get a whole pile of stuff that we can't do because of UVF
[08:47] <Adri2000> LaserJock: ah? Keybuk told me it wasn't updated because of a timeout problem with a debian mirror (IIRC)
[08:47] <ScottK> jussi01: You also need to set an appropriate maintainer field.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField for details on how Ubuntu wants it done.
[08:47] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that may be, but we normally only run MoM for a short time
[08:47] <LaserJock> Adri2000: it's normally turned off after UVF
[08:48] <Adri2000> ok
[08:48] <LaserJock> and then restarted after the toolchain is set and the repos ready for the next  release
[08:49] <ScottK> jussi01: Note that lintian also whines about .svn info in the orig.tar.gz.  If you packed it yourself, you need to do it again without all the .svn info.  If you downloaded the tarball from upstream, you should whine to them about that.
[08:49] <ScottK> jussi01: That's all I've got.  I am not an expert, so there's probably more stuff that needs to be fixed.
[08:51] <ScottK> jussi01: One more thing...  Version number should be gsopcast (1.0-0ubuntu1)
[08:51] <jussi01> ScottK, thanks a lot, Im looking at all that now..
[08:54] <jussi01> ok, im heading to bed. Many thanks to all that have helped me tonight
[09:01] <zul> gahh...I hate exchange
[09:02] <highvoltage> ME TOO!
[09:03] <bddebian> I like Exchange
[09:04] <LaserJock> never used it
[09:14] <Tonio_> bddebian: do you ?????????????
[09:14] <Tonio_> bddebian: exchange is a nightmare......
[09:15] <bddebian> How so?
[09:15] <bddebian> Though I don't like 2000+ as much as I liked 5.5
[09:20] <somerville32> Exchange doesn't work so well in Firefox.
[09:20] <LaserJock> Lathiat_ how do I unsplit in screen?
[09:25] <Adri2000> does anyone know how to fix "SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xb0'" with python?
[09:26] <sacater> Adri2000: go to #welp please, i know a 1337 who may be able to help
[09:26] <Adri2000> what?
[09:27] <sacater> Adri2000: i know someone who can help, hes in #welp
[09:30] <geser> Adri2000: have you tried to specify the encoding?
[09:30] <Adri2000> geser: yep I tried following the link in the message error, and adding a comment at the top of the file for the encoding; doesn't work
[09:34] <bddebian> geser: Are you going to look at the destar RC bug stuff?
[09:34] <bddebian> Hi BTW :-)
[09:35] <geser> Hi bddebian, which "destar RC bug stuff"?
[09:35] <dholbach> rexbron: gave my +1, so you just need another one
[09:35] <rexbron> dholbach: thanks
[09:36] <dholbach> rexbron: i was out with a friend
[09:36] <Adri2000> geser: if you want to take a look, it's slune, it fails with this error at startup (see bugs)
[09:37] <rexbron> dholbach: no sarcasm, I apprecate your promt reponce
[09:37] <dholbach> rexbron: great - thanks for your work on that
[09:38] <LaserJock> dholbach: what are you doing still up?
[09:39] <dholbach> LaserJock: distro meeting in 20 min
[09:41] <rexbron> siretart, ajmitch: would either of you be able to look at bug 97581?
[09:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 97581 in murrine "[UVFe]  murrine 0.52" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97581
[09:42] <bddebian> geser: On ajmitch's RC bug list
[09:43] <LaserJock> dholbach: poor guy
[09:44] <boss-bcp> Hello.
[09:44] <LaserJock> hi
[09:44] <siretart> rexbron: looks good!
[09:44] <dholbach> LaserJock: it could be worse :)
[09:45] <geser> bddebian: you can have destar if you want. I will try to look at it tomorrow or and the weekend if you don't take it.
[09:46] <rexbron> siretart: thanks
[09:46] <LaserJock> dholbach: yeah, for a long time the LP dev meeting was at 0400 local
[09:46] <dholbach> yeah, I remember :)
[09:47] <LaserJock> now with DST and them moving the meeting it's at 0700
[09:47] <LaserJock> which is much more managable
[09:50] <rexbron> siretart: shall I mark the bug as confirmed now that it has 2 acks?
[09:51] <bddebian> geser: She's all yours man :)
[09:51] <siretart> rexbron: yes, and feel free to upload it!
[09:55] <geser> Adri2000: after adding "# -*- coding: latin-1 -*-" as the first line to /usr/share/games/slune/character.py and /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/py2play/character.py slune started
[09:56] <Adri2000> I tried with utf-8... let me try with latin-1
[09:56] <boss-bcp> Can some seasoned Ubuntu MOTUs test out two packages I've made? (libpam-cups and libpam-script): URL: http://team254.bcp.org/packages.tar.gz
[09:58] <Adri2000> geser: good, it works, do you want to upload the fix? otherwise I will do it
[09:58] <ScottK> boss-bcp: You'd probably have more luck getting someon to review your packages if you uploaded them to REVU.
[09:58] <ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[09:59] <geser> Adri2000: \xb0 is a single-char encoding (like latin-1), in utf-8 it would be \xc2\xb0 (utf-8 is a multi-byte encoding)
[09:59] <geser> Adri2000: go, bddebian push destar to me :)
[09:59] <Adri2000> ok
[10:00] <geser> Adri2000: you need to patch slune and python-2play
[10:01] <Adri2000> right
[10:04] <bddebian> geser: Well you have to do SOMETHING.. ;-P
[10:04] <boss-bcp> ScottK: How can I get added to the Ubuntu Universe Contributors team? I tried joining, but Launchpad tells me that I can't join the team.
[10:06] <ScottK> boss-bcp: It's an open team.  What exact error are you getting?
[10:06] <ScottK> also, what's you'r launchpad ID?
[10:11] <boss-bcp> Sorry, I got disconnected there.
[10:11] <boss-bcp> ScottK: I believe I was talking to you?
[10:11] <boss-bcp> I'm part of the team now, it just took a couple of browser refreshes I guess.
[10:12] <boss-bcp> However, I can't login to REVU.
[10:12] <boss-bcp> I have a GPG keys registered already, so I believe I'm at the point where it says... Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu or at  keyring@tiber.tauware.de to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU.
[10:13] <mr_pouit> rexbron: since the uvfe got 2 acks, do you want me to upload your package, or is someone already doing it?
[10:14] <gnomefreak> dholbach: did mozillateam submit our cluefiles?
[10:14] <dholbach> gnomefreak: no idea
[10:15] <dholbach> it's easy enough to do
[10:15] <gnomefreak> ok ill look into it ty
[10:15] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper has more info
[10:15] <ScottK> boss-bcp: So until one of the REVU admins re-sync's the keyring, you
[10:15] <gnomefreak> ok ty ill look at it
[10:15] <ScottK> need to wait.
[10:28] <LaserJock> boss-bcp: the keyring is synced
[10:38] <ajmitch> morning
[10:38] <siretart> hey ajmitch 
[10:39] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:39] <geser> Hi ajmitch
[10:40] <Ursinha> afternoon
[10:48] <mr_pouit> is there a team to join (or a keyring to sync, or whatever) to be able to archive uploads on revu?
[10:52] <Adri2000> mr_pouit: just ask a revu admin to get the reviewer rights
[10:53] <Lutin> Adri2000: it's needed even though you're a motu ?
[10:53] <boss-bcp> LaserJock, ScottK: I can't seem to login with my account: boss-bcp. Am I doing something incorrectly?
[10:53] <Adri2000> Lutin: yes, it's not automatic
[10:53] <mr_pouit> Adri2000: ok, thx
[10:53] <ScottK> boss-bcp: You need to look at the error message when it fails.  It tells you how to recover your password.
[10:53] <Lutin> Adri2000: oh, ok. thanks
[10:54] <ScottK> boss-bcp: Also, you don't need to login to upload, just to comment on packages.  Use dput revu to upload packages.
[10:56] <sacater> hey guys, a mate of mine has done a gentoo-freebsd port, can the same be done with ubuntu
[10:56] <ajmitch> only if you have a lot of time to waste
[10:56] <jmg> sacater: it would be a lot of work, but could build on debian freebsd
[10:57] <jmg> but freebsd has worse hardware support than linux, so whats the point
[10:58] <jmg> i use freebsd for things like routers and firewalls
[10:58] <bddebian> Most if not all of the Debian/kfreebsd stuff should be in the archives already I would think
[10:58] <ajmitch> probably about the same value as doing ubuntu gnu/hurd
[10:58] <sacater> hmm
[10:58] <sacater> i got the thought from here http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/fbsd/
[10:58] <sacater> i know welp
[11:00] <geser> isn't the Debian/freebsd port only using the freebsd kernel and the glibc (and not freebsd libc)?
[11:01] <bddebian> afaik
[11:03] <sacater> is the feisty release going to have shipit CD's
[11:08] <sacater> hmm, im wondering whether to wait another 20 days and wait for full feisty, or get the beta....
[11:09] <ajmitch> or that
[11:10] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
[11:12] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
[11:12] <ajmitch> how are you?
[11:13] <jmg> sacater: get the beta and fix some bugs
[11:15] <ajmitch> a bit late to say so
[11:19] <LaserJock> ajmitch: busy
[11:19] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:20] <LaserJock> hmm, it's 2:20 in the afternoon
[11:20] <LaserJock> I guess I should do some research
[11:21] <ajmitch> I guess so :)
[11:59] <boss-bcp> Hmm, I had both my packages rejected (automatically?) for this the same reason: UploadError escaped upload.process: Unable to find distrorelease: unstable
[11:59] <boss-bcp> Google doesn't come up with anything, so what could that mean?
[12:00] <Nafallo> boss-bcp: Ubuntu doesn't have unstable
[12:00] <lupine_85> it's called feisty ;)
[12:00] <Nafallo> lupine_85: feisty isn't unstable ;-)
[12:01] <lupine_85> of course not :)
[12:01] <boss-bcp> Ah, so I add change the changelog, gotcha.
[12:01] <boss-bcp> It's not unstable really. I was following the Debian New Package Maintainer's Guide while making both packages.
[12:02] <boss-bcp> I also read the Ubuntu package management guide, but it's not as indepth as far as I've seen and holds the new package maintainer's hands a bit much. Nothing wrong with it, I'd just appreciate a bit more information (which if I get the time, may edit in myself).
[12:08] <geser> does REVU check the release?
[12:09] <mr_pouit> is there a revu admin here?
[12:10] <ajmitch> mr_pouit: what do you need?
[12:10] <mr_pouit> ajmitch: reviewers rights for revu (it seems I don't have them at the moment)
[12:11] <mr_pouit> Lutin: same for you, isn't it?
[12:11] <Lutin> yep
[12:12] <ajmitch> hm