[12:18] hmm [12:18] interesting === W31rD0H [n=druid@d54C23DD9.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:19] we need to add automake1.9 to fluxbox as a builddep === joejaxx goes to make a patch [12:31] joejaxx: why does it require that? [12:31] did someone patch Makefile.am & not Makefile.in as well? === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:37] I have changed the. status tags on bugs 78005 77485 ... was this right for me to do this as per the new MOTU-SRU policy? [12:37] Malone bug 78005 in qpsmtpd "[SRU] request: dapper:qpsmtpd fix for bug #72602" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78005 [12:39] I'm a little confused whom is now supposed to do the release- upload.... or how I do it.... === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:43] Please let me know what todo ?? [??] === marcin_ant [n=marcin@194.114.146.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu === marcin_ant_ [n=marcin@194.114.146.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.131.47] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rrittenhouse [n=tad@unaffiliated/rrittenhouse] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:07] night folks! === LongPointyStick [n=user@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:26] I've been thinking a bit about the ubuntu-motu ml showing up as MOTU Media on Launchpad. What's stopping is from just going to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-motu/+claim, having it mail a password or whatever to the mailing list, logging in and fixing it? [01:26] s/What's stopping is/What's stopping us/ [01:27] It's just so obvious that someone must have thought of it before and figured out a good reason why not to go through with it.. [01:27] ubuntu-motu ml would then get all the launchpad mails for the team [01:28] geser: Oh, the horror! [01:28] hehh [01:28] geser: We *could* just filter it in mailman. [01:29] geser: It's silly, but so is the "MOTUMedia" thing. [01:29] We could also just setup another primary e-mail for it. [01:30] ...which would then get all the spam. Perhaps a new ml like "ubuntu-motu-bugs" or something? [01:31] iirc was there also something about merging a person and a team and LP [01:31] *We* all know what it means when it says MOTUMedia, but for the innocent bystanders it looks pretty strange, I think. === adamant1988 [n=chatzill@doc-24-206-202-2.el.wv.cebridge.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:31] geser: Yes, there might be some issues there as well. === owh [n=onno@optussatellitebintb.22bjipb002.optus.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:31] iirc is the zope team in a similar situation [01:32] yep [01:32] We could also convince the LP people to make LP work sanely, which is probably the better solution. === ajmitch talked to the LP people about it, it was going to be fixed [01:32] ajmitch and LaserJock might know more about it as they talked to the LP people === ajmitch can't remember all the details right now [01:33] Is there a bug about this? [01:33] Fujitsu: able to look at/sponsor enyc's upload to dapper-updates? [01:33] I was wondering if anyone could assist. I have written a spec for dosfstools. It has been modified by another wiki user and I don't agree with the modifications. I have emailed the user asking for feedback and received no reply. How do I best revert the changes without getting into a wiki-war? [01:34] ajmitch: Not really, as I'm studying for a specialist maths SAC, and am about to head off to school. [01:34] About == in 5 minutes. [01:34] FYI: The Spec is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecificationDosDirtyFlag === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:37] Heya gang === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:37] hey bddebian === owh secretly hopes that all 129 people in the room are now busily reading the spec but is under no illusion that this is in fact the case :) [01:39] owh: I'm just thinking that if he doesn't care enough to respond to e-mails about it.. === bddebian doesn't read specs :-( [01:39] owh: Well... Revert the changes and see if that entices him out. [01:39] shawarma: I understand your point, but I suspect that if I revert, then I'll be engaged in all manner of fun and games. Most non-productive :-( [01:40] Hmm. [01:40] Perhaps a different question will spark some progress. Is anyone here aware of any FAT dirty flag support in the kernel? [01:41] Fujitsu: fair enough :) [01:41] Where would I begin to look? [01:41] School holidays in 24 hours, so lots of time soon. [01:41] UTSL? === Fujitsu heads off to school. [01:41] Bye everyone. [01:41] Fujitsu: Hmm, school, that was a while ago. [01:41] Enjoy [01:41] Fujitsu: Have fun. [01:41] Bye owh. [01:42] bddebian: saying 'UTSL' when referring to the kernel isn't awfully helpful [01:42] Am I ever? :-) [01:42] of course [01:42] bddebian: In fact I didn't know you were talking to me, nor do I know what UTSL is :-) [01:43] UTSL == Use The Source Luke === owh thought it had something to do with School. [01:43] bddebian: Yeah, that's not very helpful :-) [01:43] bddebian: ROTFL === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:43] bddebian: Sorry, a more constructive response would be. Where in particular? [01:44] http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/XvFatDiscussion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=20050325-xvfat-intro-en.pdf ? [01:45] Can anyone comment on the diff between v6 and v7 of the spec? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecificationDosDirtyFlag?action=diff&rev2=7&rev1=6 [01:46] bddebian: Hmm, now that's what I call informative. Excellent. === Lutin_ [n=Lutin@sd-3564.dedibox.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Lutin [n=Lutin@ubuntu/member/lutin] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:47] s/UTSL/UTGL/ [01:47] Google? [01:47] yeah :-) [01:47] :-) [01:48] The third hit :-) === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:58] Can anyone point me to a CVS-web access of the kernel source, if such a beast exists? === mr_pouit [n=mrpouit@ubuntu/member/mrpouit] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:04] If I look at msdos_fs.h on my machine, it looks like this: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/include/linux/msdos_fs.h. If I read the only reference to an actual dirty flag here: http://lkml.org/lkml/1998/11/8/129, the 1998 version includes comments about dirty flags, but the current one does not. [02:05] A grep for dirty in my include directory shows references to reiserfs, ext2/3, but nothing for fat. [02:05] what's the flag? === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:06] In 1998 it was referred to as: Current Head, but I cannot locate that part of the struct anymore. [02:08] I can see the part that the 1998 email is referring to, the FAT32 section, but it does not contain the parts it should. I do not know how to determine if it ever existed, exists somewhere else, or has been removed. [02:08] The PDF you showed me talks as if it already exists, which I would expect, but I have never found it. === RAOF [n=Chris_@matht464.maths.unsw.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === micahcowan [n=micahcow@adsl-76-199-96-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Rohinton [n=chatzill@c-67-170-250-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jwhitlark [n=jwhitlar@64-121-52-87.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:20] The more I look, the less evidence I find of this actually having ever been implemented. [02:21] 'night all === ash211_ [n=andrew@user-11fap9g.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:23] Hmm, so am I just being an idiot? [02:24] can anyone point me to the ubuntu distro ( dvd ) which has all the buntus on it... [02:25] I saw it in some web page and I cannot remember where... === stratus [n=stratus@201.53.55.52] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:26] I cannot reconcile the concept that a mature part of the OS, FAT support, used every day by millions does not have dirty flag support. Which makes me think that it does exists, but not where I am looking. Am I blind? [02:26] s/exists/exist/ === jml [n=jml@ppp112-44.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:29] owh: likely because vfat is not our default file system? [02:30] Burgwork: Hmm. [02:30] hey all [02:30] Ok, so am I alone in thinking that dirty flag support should exist? [02:32] probably not, just that most people don't really care [02:32] I mean, every external drive, thumb-drives, cameras, even recovery partitions all use FAT. If we're going to co-exist, shouldn't we do it properly? [02:32] true [02:32] now that you have the spec, propose it for the next UDS === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:33] UDS? [02:33] Ubuntu Developer Sprint? [02:34] yes [02:34] on the spec, "submit to meeting" or something similar === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:34] summit [02:34] hey mgalvin, Hobbsee [02:34] What I'm concerned about is that I'm wasting people's time because it already exists and that I'm just too ignorant to find it. [02:35] hiya Burgwork [02:35] hey Burgwork! [02:36] ok - found it === owh guesses that Rohinton is not talking about dirty flag support :-) [02:37] moin Hobbsee! [02:37] Ok, let me ask about a different approach. If I wanted to find out for sure that it doesn't exist, who would I best ask where? [02:38] s/it/fat dirty flag support/ [02:38] owh: sorry was in my own world... [02:38] heya Jucato~ [02:38] Rohinton: That's ok, so am I :) [02:38] owh: dirty as in in use... [02:38] Rohinton: Dirty as in, mounted and changed. [02:40] owh: what type of fs, unix based or MS... [02:41] Some background: Initially bugs were being reported where dosfschk was checking clean file systems and changing them, causing all manner of grief. Some of the bugs are/have been fixed, but the check should never have happened in the first place. I wrote a spec to handle the (v)FAT flag for dosfschk but stayed away from kernel comments because I do not know the state. [02:41] The spec was updated to comment about the kernel, but I now need to know for sure if it isn't supported, which is what it's beginning to look like. [02:42] Rohinton: So, the answer is MS based (x)(v)FAT(12/16/32), which is used all over the place. [02:43] owh: 2.4.20 seems to mention iit? [02:43] Where? === minghua__ [n=minghua@ppp-70-129-164-213.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:48] Rohinton: ? [02:52] Rohinton: Are you talking about the reference in the pdf that bddebian showed us? http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/XvFatDiscussion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=20050325-xvfat-intro-en.pdf [02:55] owh: yes - I mis read that... [02:56] Rohinton: I just found out about mtools and am reading up about that. === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.131.47] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xtknight [n=xtknight@c-68-43-122-102.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === CarlFK [n=carl@24.72.183.239] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:06] Hm. How do you make a package depend upon an exact version of one of its dependencies? [03:06] In the same way as -dev packages depend on $source-version? [03:07] e.g. Depends: dpkg (>= 1.13.20), ... ? [03:07] owh: There also some discussion about FAT and IP - maybe that's why it may not be there? [03:07] xtknight: No, as in Depends: compiz (=0.3.6-1ubuntu9) [03:07] No that's > or = [03:07] hmm = doesnt work either? [03:08] Because compiz-extra *needs* to be built against exactly the same version of compiz as it's running on. [03:08] Otherwise, compiz crashes trying to load the plugins. [03:09] >> is a strict depends but I don't think that's what you want either === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:09] bddebian: I think we could use >> and <<, but it'd be nice to have it automatic? [03:09] Rohinton: Where are you reading that? [03:10] Or is that too much to ask for? [03:10] Rohinton: I'm thinking you're meaning Intellectual Property, not Internet Protocol. [03:11] Rohinton: If that's what you mean, didn't they all go to court and finally determine that FAT was not restricted because it was in such wide use, or did I remember wrong? [03:12] RAOF: I don't know, sorry :-( [03:14] Anyway, bug #97661 should be fixed with just a rebuild. [03:14] Malone bug 97661 in compiz-extra "Loading any Compiz-Extra plugins causes Compiz to segfault" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/97661 [03:22] owh: There's some dirty buffer stuff in buffer.c but I don't think that's what you are looking for [03:23] Rohinton: The IP stuff about FAT is referred to in wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table === freeflying [i=root@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:26] owh: I am not sure ... [03:27] owh: sorry - trying to also deal with Homework, kids not mine :-) [03:28] bddebian: Hmm, it appears to be talking about memory buffers, but I see references to inodes. Could this be dealing with swap, rather than FAT? [03:29] tbh, I'm not sure if fat uses inodes or not. I know extfs does [03:29] bddebian: Or is this the abstraction layer between the kernel and any file system? [03:29] owh: That's the vfs layer? [03:30] Well, bddebian talked about buffer.c, which relates to this file AFAIK: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/fs/buffer.c#L1250 [03:30] owh: so what is the exact question you want answered? [03:31] Rohinton: The question is this: "Is there now, or has there ever been dirty flag support in FAT implemented in the kernel?" [03:33] Rohinton: My current answer is: "Not as far as I can tell." [03:34] use the source [03:34] drivers/block/loop.c ? [03:35] /fs/fat ? [03:35] jmg: I did. I get conflicting results. If I look at msdos_fs.h on my machine, it looks like this: http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/include/linux/msdos_fs.h. If I read the only reference to an actual dirty flag here: http://lkml.org/lkml/1998/11/8/129, the 1998 version includes comments about dirty flags, but the current one does not. [03:35] i dont have the tree at hand [03:36] owh: by dirty flag, you mean the bit that forces checks after an unclean reboot? === StevenK [n=stevenk@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:36] jmg: I do indeed mean that. [03:36] bddebian: No, that's the loop driver. [03:37] hello StevenK [03:37] owh: http://www.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/XvFatDiscussion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=20050715-xvfat-2.4.20.patch maybe some clue here. [03:38] fs/super.c ? :-) === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:41] owh: from kernel 2.2.x http://surprise.sourceforge.net/doc/tech-49.html === jmg apt-get installs the source === mwolson [i=mwolson@jpi-wlafyte-212-116.dmisinetworks.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:43] owh: struct fat_file has a dirty bit defined? === ogra__ [n=ogra@p548ADBC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:44] Rohinton: Yes, but I do not see that inside the kernel anywhere. I suspect that the definition you showed me is in the source code for Partition Surprise. === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:46] yes. [03:48] bddebian: From what I'm reading is that the higher level abstraction layers have dirty flag support, but I'm not seeing it at the FAT level. There is a reference in fs/fat/fat.c to mark_inode_dirty, but I do not see any code referring to the boot sector actually implementing it. === luisbg [n=d33p@87.217.144.122] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua_ [n=minghua@adsl-75-54-168-214.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:51] Or for that matter any reference to the actual flag in the boot sector. === Ash-Fox [i=UNKNOWN@fgd182.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Ubuntu-motu [03:54] Ultimately, AFAIK the implementation would need to define a flag for dirty here: include/linux/msdos_fs.h, then test/set/clear it somewhere in fs/fat/fat.c === caravena [n=caravena@222-163-223-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:11] This reference describes in great detail the implementation of FAT. http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/fs/fat/fat-1.html It says that the dirty flag is implemented in the second FAT cluster. Am I looking in the wrong spot if I'm looking in msdos_fs.h? [04:13] just to note, this is likely the wrong channel. You likely want #ubuntu-kernel. [04:15] Any objections to keep at this here for the moment? [04:15] crimsun is right, ubuntu-kernel is where the experts are [04:17] I don't think anyone would _object_ per se, but the core kernel team's irc clients are not present in this channel, whereas they are in -kernel. === owh adds another window. === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.131.47] has joined #ubuntu-motu === nixternal notices mIRC on the ctcp reply from crimsun [04:20] it's a pony, duh. [04:20] haha [04:20] ZOMG ponies! [04:20] I knew it was coming [04:21] someone had to === minghua__ [n=minghua@ppp-70-251-16-63.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:21] ZOMG TASK_BOOTSTRAP_PORT :-) [04:22] bddebian: enough of that thanks === Jucato only sees alien words... [04:22] except for the ponies :D [04:23] ah, a good sign that you're not with a group of nerds anymore: talking about 3-way-merging results in immature snickers :) [04:24] O.o [04:24] Jucato: never mind, it's jdong_ [04:24] lol [04:24] Jucato knew me before I lost my mind :D [04:24] was there such a time? [04:24] was that before or after the flash fiasco? :D [04:24] jdong_: how do you lose something you never had? [04:24] ;p [04:25] I just used my right-hand programmer's laptop last night... [04:25] it was a scarring experience.... [04:25] he kinda named all his bzr branches after his former / fantasy girlfriends... [04:25] so when he used bzr merge... it was a bit more personal. [04:25] lol [04:25] and Jucato you bastard ;-) [04:25] Egads and I thought I was a freak [04:25] roflmao [04:25] bddebian: no thinking there, you are a freak! [04:26] boo [04:26] :'-( [04:26] I kinda pretended I didn't see his .bash_history..... [04:26] but jdong's a bigger freak, methinks :D === nixternal hands bddebian some sandpaper, here, wipe that tear [04:26] do I get a trophy for that? [04:27] history |grep pr0n | wc -l [04:27] prolly looks like an infinity counter [04:28] nixternal: and last year I already learned never go find/beagling around another person's computer... [04:28] somethings are best not known. [04:28] haha, I know what you mean [04:28] jdong_: You could always just add some ignore stuff to their beagle configuration :-) [04:28] years back I worked as the Midwest Tech Manager for CompUSA. we used to scan everyones puter [04:29] scary at times [04:29] owh: somehow I think he needed his beagle to navigate his... collection... [04:29] :) [04:29] ROTFL [04:29] nixternal: Scan every one that came in for repair you mean? For what? [04:29] nixternal: yeah, that'll probably be more than you ever bargained for :D [04:30] tonyyarusso: exactly what you think :) [04:30] jdong_: I suppose it's better than a horse and a girl on a desktop, which is what one of my clients found on an (immediately ex-)employees system. [04:30] nixternal: that's legal? [04:30] we had one guy come in who made movies [04:30] tonyyarusso: probably not, but who is going to know? [04:30] right === Jucato records this conversation [04:31] the techs had a server they would download it all to, and then burn CDs [04:31] owh: ok... to let you know how bad this was... === Jucato waves to nixternal :D [04:31] we were being sarcastic about looking for porn on his computer === nixternal hides [04:31] so I put into beagle the most ABSURD search I could possible come up with... [04:31] and it had 65 matches. [04:31] hahaha [04:31] heh :D [04:31] like COMPLETELY ABSURD.... [04:32] things that just the filenames would make most people in here vomit. === jdong_ shudders [04:32] well, if you can stomach tubgirl, nothing will make you vomit [04:32] jdong_: Isn't that more a reflection on the nature of the beagle search, rather than the material :-) === owh uninstalled beagle after it decided to run down the battery, didn't find all emails and ignored most useful files. [04:33] jdong_: But I get your point :-) [04:33] :) [04:33] the vomiting comes from the realization that the person ENJOYED that [04:34] jdong_: I suppose it's better reading about it than doing it... [04:34] tubgirl... ugh, did you have to bring that up? [04:35] crimsun: Any suggestions how I should get some response from ubuntu-kernel? === RedKrieg [n=RedKrieg@ip68-230-209-186.rd.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:35] strip naked and run in circles? [04:36] bddebian: Hmm, now that's an Idea... [04:36] strip nekkid and dance in the middle? [04:36] ... [04:36] bddebian: ... I'll give that a miss. [04:36] maybe i should come back later [04:36] :-) === bddebian hugs welshbyte [04:36] :) === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:49] owh: ask during US/EU business hours [04:51] crimsun: That would be while I'm sleeping :-) === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:03] Bah it's only 11pm here and 8 on the left coast ;-P === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:03] bddebian: And some in that channel are awake, but I appear to be invisible :-( [05:03] Join the club :-) [05:04] ROTFL === Jucato won't join as long as bddebian's there :) === Jucato runs and hides from the "boo" === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:05] heh [05:06] dang... I don't see my own cloak that much :( === Jucato has to do /whois to see his shiny badge :D === ajmitch wishes he got shiny stuff [05:07] shiny pony? :P [05:08] hm [05:08] bddebian: fixed up universe? === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:09] suure [05:10] how about the rc bugs list? [05:12] I wish they'd sync the damn things so I could remember where I was :) [05:12] sorry [05:14] Why would you be sorry? [05:15] for not having the comments stuff on the bug page [05:16] Gah, neither does MoM :-) [05:17] but I can do something about my page :) === matt_good [n=matt@ip24-255-125-63.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mark007 [n=mark@128.227.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:25] ajmitch: Some day I have to have you guys show me how you guys get to that kind of data [05:25] oh that's top-secret [05:25] I want to do some pages like "show me all packages that haven't seen an update in 2 yrs or some such" === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch is pulling the debian stuff from a debian bts mirror [05:26] hm, that should be trivial [05:26] if you compare versions in hoary & feisty, for example === ajmitch could probably get a page with that data in a few minutes === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-105-15.auto.rp80.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@ppp112-44.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === owh needs help from someone with more experience. [05:47] How do I get some progress towards my FAT questions? I've been doing this since December and I'm still not going forward in any meaningful way. I've had excellent commiserations around here, but ultimately, I'm no closer to a resolution. What is the procedure for this? [05:50] Am I asking the wrong question in the wrong venue? [05:51] probably [05:51] There are few (if any?) kernel hackers in here [05:51] Isn't there a linux-kernel or kernel-dev channel somewhere on freenode? === owh looks. [05:52] might get more attention on a mailing list, that way you're not depending on people being awake :) [05:52] welshbyte: I started with emails to ubuntu-dev and to ubuntu-dev-discuss, both with no response at all. [05:53] ah ok [05:53] I also emailed the maintainer for dosfstools with the same result. [05:53] Welcome to "Free Software" :-) [05:53] I wrote a spec and asked for feedback and got nada. [05:54] bddebian: Why do I feel so underwhelmed :) [05:54] Toadstool: are you around? [05:57] owh: It can be frustrating at times. Keep trying, you'll get somewhere. [05:58] ajmitch: Where'd you get cacti 1.8.10 from? I don't see it in incoming. Is it in experimental? [05:58] bddebian: no [05:58] look at the bug (I've explained this one before) [05:59] to me? [05:59] yep [06:00] 07:36 < bddebian> Gah, frick, I missed that :-) [06:00] 07:36 -!- schultmc [i=schultmc@nat/progeny/x-b5f503beafd4a51d] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:00] 07:37 < ajmitch> ignore ones like cacti [06:00] yay for grep [06:00] 07:37 < ajmitch> where the bug was reported in one package & fixed in another [06:00] ajmitch: Lol [06:01] Damn getting old sucks [06:01] yep [06:01] bddebian: Thanks for the pick-me-up. [06:02] owh: I run into it a lot because I try to do a lot of things with GNU/Hurd that are WAY over my head and I tend to annoy people with it :) === bddebian thinks geser should do destar [06:03] joejaxx: 'sup? don't have much time tonight though === Toadstool waves [06:04] Heya Toadstool [06:04] hey bddebian [06:04] hello Toadstool :) [06:05] Who's working on audacity again? [06:06] Is jumping a distro supported? I.E. something like dapper to feisty? [06:06] no [06:06] didn't think so. Is it OK if I reject a bug for that? [06:06] owh: sorry just got back from my pack meeting (BSA ).... [06:07] depends if the bug is caused by that [06:07] Rohinton: I'm still here :) [06:07] Bug #96143 [06:07] Malone bug 96143 in roundup "problems when upgrading to feisty from dapper using gui" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96143 [06:07] owh: So you should propose and do something and get it included... [06:08] bddebian: a friend of mine completely broke his system with a dapper -> feisty dist-upgrade [06:08] bddebian: IMHO it should just work, so personally I wouldn't reject based on that. [06:10] owh: You are on crack :-) [06:10] bddebian: Excellent. I didn't know that. [06:10] gar, just reattached my screen to quickly check my emails and I end up on IRC :) [06:11] got to go, cya [06:11] Rohinton: Well I proposed and got nada. I'd rather not do something until I understand that what I proposed is in fact correct :-) [06:11] later Toadstool [06:11] bddebian: I am disappointed with the hurd, they seem to have lost the way... maybe everyone's busy but the irc's are very quite... [06:12] Rohinton: I suspect that if I actually write something, I'll still get nada, but then I'll have spent time writing it too. [06:12] Rohinton: This time of day it is, yes [06:12] well that Debian bug is stupid [06:13] europe should start waking up in about 2 hours === bddebian goes to be in 1 :) [06:13] which means i should've been asleep for the last 6 :/ [06:13] bddebian: europe? is that the main stay fopr hurd? === thoreauputic [n=prospero@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has joined #ubuntu-motu === owh is about to have lunch :) [06:14] Rohinton: We have a lot of Germans and such, yes [06:14] owh: you should do something - if people like it it will get attention... [06:14] owh: then the v+ and v- feedback will happen [06:14] Rohinton: If people like it, then it should have already gotten attention :-) === marcin_ant [n=marcin@194.114.146.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:15] Ok, lemmie ask this. Is this how it always goes? You ask for feedback and get nada, you write code and hope that someone notices? [06:15] Gah, screw roundup :-( [06:15] bddebian: I was under the mistaken impression that the USA was the "hub" [06:16] hahaha [06:16] owh: yep - === owh has been writing code for clients for years, feedback levels are way higher when they're paying :-) === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-003-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:16] owh: LOL [06:16] Well I guess when Roland, Thomas Bushnell and Neal were still involved, it probably was [06:18] Hmm, forget about wxwindows2.4 [06:18] bddebian: who are the driving forces now? === twanj [n=chatzill@c-66-176-118-121.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:19] Rohinton: Well, that is a damn fine question :'-( === owh hands bddebian the reigns... [06:19] :) [06:20] bddebian: I would like to see hurd pickup, ut also debian-hurd seem a little slow... [06:20] bddebian: s/ut/but/ [06:21] Rohinton: Thanks for your encouragement. I'm going to feed my face and have a think about how I'd best actually write the code that does this. [06:21] bddebian: I am not sure if the effort and the motivation is there still.... [06:21] owh: my pleasure... [06:24] Rohinton: #debian-hurd? [06:24] bddebian: yes [06:24] owh: I don't have the skills and I just piss everyone becaue I have no patience [06:25] Rohinton: I didn't even know that channel was still around. Most of us hang around in #hurd === jml [n=jml@ppp112-44.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:25] bddebian: Well, you've displayed patience with me today, so if you have none, that means you're making progress :) [06:25] owh: I mean I don't have patience for stupid shit. For example our glibc code needs some serious lovin' but no one works on it. [06:25] bddebian: maybe the first thing is to get people from ##hurd #hurd and #debian-hurd to talk and see if this is really going to fly... [06:26] Rohinton: Most of them are all on the same page in #hurd. ##hurd mainly exists because of 1 individual. [06:26] bddebian: There lots of pressure from other OSs and there has to be motivation/innovation and direction. [06:27] bddebian: would you like to clarify? [06:27] bddebian: In the words of Rohinton: "you should do something - if people like it it will get attention..." [06:27] :) [06:27] Rohinton: Well that's part of the problem. We have about 3 different paths now. One persion is writing a new mach-compatible kernel, marcus is leaning back towards l4.sec and I think neal still likes Coyotos [06:28] owh: I try, but as I said, I seriously lack the skills [06:28] owh: well yes I agree and I am trying - I started talking to rooty - but have not heard ( no pun ) from him again.... [06:28] bddebian: that's why there has to be direction... [06:29] Rohinton: rooty thinks RMS is the saviour and RMS couldn't give a shit about GNU/Hurd. Anyway, this is really the wrong channel for this discussion. === thoreauputic [n=prospero@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [06:29] bddebian: I was surprised to see that L4 was now in question.... [06:29] It stalled a long time ago [06:30] bddebian: Yea sorry - [06:30] Rohinton: I don't mind but I'm sure others head's are about to expldode. Right ajmitch? ;-) [06:30] jej [06:30] hurd [06:30] bddebian: as it's quite... :-) [06:31] bddebian: no, I was out of the office for a few minutes [06:31] & I'll just continue ignoring -motu [06:31] :-) [06:31] please put me out of my misery and explain the ##hurd, let's do it on a private line... [06:32] why do i get forwarded to #ubuntu-unregged [06:32] Because you haven't registered your nick? [06:32] but i have? [06:32] 16:41 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- You have already identified [06:32] Hmm weird === superm1 [n=supermar@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@ppp112-44.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === boss-bcp [n=boss-bcp@fw.bcp.org] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:38] Hello everyone. [06:38] hii boss-bcp [06:39] Before I submit a few beta tested packages, can I have some hardened veterans of this business check a few packages for me? I tested them myself and asked a few friends to test them out and so far, no one's machine has been scarred. [06:44] what packages? [06:45] One package: libpam-cups provides secure authentication to SMB/IPP backend CUPS and libpam-script which allows script execution at session open/close and authorization. [06:45] boss-bcp: and you based your packages on the existing pam ones [06:46] using dh_installpam? [06:47] jmg: On libpam0g yes. [06:47] sounds good [06:47] URL? [06:48] I'll upload them in a second. What exactly would you like? Just the Debian packages or the source packages as well? [06:48] throw both up [06:50] Both packages were alpha tested by me both through pbuilder and the old fashioned way. A few friends who are relatively good with Ubuntu beta tested the packages. The URL: http://team254.bcp.org/packages.tar.gz [07:00] jmg: A few things to consider for libpam-cups... /usr/bin/pam_cups_spool comes by default with the sticky bit on (removing it will cause the package to cease properly functioning). update-alternatives is used in a bit unorthodox way so as to ln stuff in /usr/lib/cups/backend properly. Other than that, it's a pretty standard package. [07:05] jmg: Also to clear up any confusion, I am not the upstream author on either of these packages. [07:07] s/sticky bit/setuid bit/ === superm1_ [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === superm1_ [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:19] Gnight folks [07:19] night bddebian [07:19] g'night bddebian === Ademan [n=dan@h-67-101-145-200.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === vil [n=vladimir@ubuntu/member/vil] has joined #ubuntu-motu === No1Viking [n=micke@h-83-140-105-15.auto.rp80.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mayday_jay [n=mayday_j@maydayjay.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Monk-e [n=guido@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:15] jmg: Let me know how that all works out for you. === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-a928bf09ed81501e] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jussi01 [n=jussi@dyn3-82-128-187-18.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xopher [n=xopher@unaffiliated/xopher] has joined #ubuntu-motu === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jwhitlark [n=jwhitlar@64-121-52-87.c3-0.snmt-ubr1.sfrn-snmt.ca.cable.rcn.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [08:40] ajmitch: is doko ever around? [08:44] http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html -- are these targeted for Feisty RC ? [08:46]