[12:38] <nealmcb> I'm upgrading via aptitude (dapper), and again I'm running into odd broken dependencies.  It says that cupsys-bsd is broken, and suggests that I need to upgrade it in order to upgrade cupsys-client to 1.2.2 My problem is, why on earth does it think I don't want it to do that automatically??  does it think I placed some sort of hold on it or something??  I never do that sort of thing on purpose....
[12:41] <ivoks> you are dist upgrading or what?
[12:41] <nealmcb> just a normal "U" for upgrade
[12:42] <ivoks> so... you already have dapper?
[12:42] <nealmcb> yes
[12:42] <ivoks> so, it says that cupsys-bsd needs upgrading?
[12:43] <nealmcb> Yeah.  in the aptitude gui, at the bottom "[1(1)/...]  Suggest 4 upgrades e: Examine  !: Apply  .: Next  ,: Previous"
[12:43] <ivoks> doing sudo apt-get upgrade doesn't install new packages?
[12:44] <nealmcb> I've been told for years that aptitude was better than apt, since it keeps track of what you really want to install
[12:44] <ivoks> sorry, but i don't see a problem
[12:45] <ivoks> it reminds you that you need to upgrade another package too
[12:45] <ivoks> and if you choose apply, everything should go ok
[12:46] <nealmcb> why does it ask me about cupsys-bsd, but not about cupsys-client?
[12:46] <ivoks> if that 'reminding' is a problem, maybe you shouldn't use tool which primary job is to remind you about additional upgrades :)
[12:46] <nealmcb> I didn't ask for anything in particular, and it comes up with not one, but four different things I have to approve
[12:47] <ivoks> then don't use UI of aptitude
[12:47] <ivoks> just run sudo aptitude upgrade
[12:47] <ivoks> or dist-upgrade
[12:47] <nealmcb> If I understood what was different about the two situations, it wouldn't make me nervous
[12:47] <ivoks> difference betwean what?
[12:48] <ivoks> doh...
[12:48] <nealmcb> why does it ask me about cupsys-bsd, but not about cupsys-client?
[12:48] <nealmcb> both need upgrading, but it makes a point of asking me about one of them
[12:49] <ivoks> if you select one package for upgrade, than it will ask you for another one
[12:50] <nealmcb> I didn't select anything in particular for upgrade - just a general "upgrade it all" but it starts asking questions about four packages out of the dozens that need upgrading
[12:50] <ivoks> maybe cupsys needs additional library
[12:51] <nealmcb> the other questions out-of-the-blue are about evolution-plugins , libc6-i686 and libglib2.0-data 
[12:51] <ivoks> and if you approve instalation of cupsys-client, then that library will get installed
[12:51] <ivoks> thus, you don't have to approve that for evey single package that depends on that library
[12:51] <nealmcb> I could see it warning me if I was asking to do something custom, like holding cupsys-client at an old version.  but I'm just trying to say "upgrade it all"
[12:52] <ivoks> you don't listen or you don't understand?
[12:52] <ivoks> if new version of cups depends on a new library (which you don't have installed)
[12:52] <ivoks> then, selecting upgrade of one cups package, selects that new library
[12:53] <ivoks> since that library will get installed, you don't have to approve installation of every single cups package
[12:53] <ivoks> they don't need special approval, since you will have that library and everything is fine with them
[12:53] <ivoks> and, i'll repeat
[12:54] <ivoks> why do you use aptitude UI if interaction makes you nervous? :)
[12:54] <nealmcb> Both cupsys-client and cupsys-bsd are already installed, by default.  So it isn't an issue of needing a new library, as far as I can see
[12:54] <ivoks> ok, for the test
[12:55] <ivoks> when you do sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[12:55] <nealmcb> I like a GUI that tells me what I need to know.  I'm curious why I need to know about these four upgrades, out of all the others out there
[12:55] <ivoks> does it say that it need aditional packages?
[12:55] <nealmcb> why dist-upgrade?
[12:55] <ivoks> that's what aptitude is doing
[12:56] <nealmcb> I thought "U" was for just "upgrade", not "dist-upgrade"
[12:56] <ivoks> i don't use aptitude, sorry, i can't help you
[12:56] <ivoks> :)
[12:56] <nealmcb> Ahh...
[12:59] <nealmcb> for the record, sudo aptitude upgrade says it will upgrade both cupsys-bsd and cupsys-client.  So I still want to know why the GUI is making a big deal about cupsys-bsd and a couple others, out of dozens of upgraded packages.
[01:00] <ivoks> press e?
[01:04] <nealmcb> yeah, "e" helps give info.  But what is the equivalent for the command line?
[01:06] <nealmcb> It is just odd that the GUI treats these packages differently than the command line, and I want to know why, and if there is a way to turn that off.  It gets far worse at other times with aptitude - e.g. packages showing up for deletion which none of my colleagues remember marking for deletion.  , which makes me wonder if folks really don't recommend it any more, like they used to.
[01:06] <nealmcb> so maybe just doing it all from the command line, with apt-get or aptitude, is the answer for server administration these days?
[01:07] <ivoks> i've never used aptitude, and i'm runing linux servers for 10 years
[01:07] <marnaud> hi, I don't know if I'm at the good place for that, I have a question about logrotate, so maybe I'm not too off-topic and someone knows it well
[01:07] <nealmcb> well, it was the default for either debian or ubuntu in 2004 or so as I recall
[01:07] <ivoks> nealmcb: it was never default in ubuntu
[01:07] <ivoks> and never in debian
[01:08] <ivoks> dpkg is the only 'default' thing
[01:08] <ivoks> everything else is glue on top of it
[01:08] <ivoks> marnaud: sure, just ask
[01:09] <marnaud> I have configured all my log files to be rotated once a month, and a rotation happened before she had to
[01:09] <nealmcb> during installation of debian server pre-sarge in september of 2004, aptitude was the default
[01:09] <nealmcb> I don't know if sarge shipped that way or not
[01:10] <marnaud> I had chrony and I deinstalled it, I think it's that which is the problem because chrony has log files handled by logrotate
[01:11] <ivoks> marnaud: all logs or just some of them?
[01:11] <marnaud> after chrony was removed, the day after with the daily cron task, all my log files handled by logrotate were rotated
[01:11] <marnaud> ivoks: all logs
[01:12] <marnaud> so I don't know if it's a normal behaviour or if this may be a bug
[01:12] <ivoks> marnaud: how did you configure logrotate to rotate only once in a month?
[01:12] <ivoks> in every config in logrorate.d?
[01:14] <marnaud> I configured it in /et/logrotate.conf with monthly directive
[01:15] <marnaud> and all my config files in logrotate.d have monthly too
[01:15] <ivoks> but... that file includes /etc/logrotate.d
[01:15] <ivoks> ok
[01:17] <marnaud> I don't know exactly how function /var/lib/logrotate/status
[01:17] <ivoks> that should be ok
[01:17] <marnaud> ok so it's a normal behaviour ?
[01:18] <ivoks> it's not
[01:19] <ivoks>  /var/lib/logrotate/status is status of when was the last time logs were rotated
[01:20] <marnaud> yes, this confirms they were rotated
[01:20] <marnaud> and not at the begin of the month as I must do normally
[01:22] <ivoks> welll
[01:22] <ivoks> you can do this :)
[01:22] <ivoks> mv /etc/cron.daily/logrotate /etc/cron.monthly/
[01:24] <marnaud> I'm sorry, I should precise, this rotation happened 3 days ago
[01:24] <ivoks> even for syslog?
[01:24] <marnaud> and since this unusual rotation, there is not daily rotations
[01:24] <marnaud> this problem happened once
[01:25] <ivoks> hm...
[01:25] <marnaud> yes even for syslog
[01:25] <ivoks> did you changed settings on that day?
[01:25] <marnaud> no
[01:25] <marnaud> that's why I wonder what happened and if it may be a bug
[01:26] <ivoks> logrotate should start keeping it's own logs :)
[01:28] <nealmcb> So now folks on another channel are saying that apt and aptitude are unreliable for doing upgrades - that update-manger is necessary, implying X11!!  Do folks here agree?
[01:29] <foo> hmm, during the ubuntu install... I was told alt+f2.. setup network, install openssh-server... then I can ssh in remotely. Just wondering, is there anyway to run the installer remotely?
[01:29] <foo> :)
[01:30] <marnaud> ok I will make some tries because I'm curious about this problem :)
[01:35] <LaserJock> marnaud: I don't think update-manager is the recommended upgrade tool for servers
[01:36] <LaserJock> for a normal desktop it's a bit better because it has some extra "stuff"
[01:37] <marnaud> LaserJock: sorry, I don't see why you talk me about update-manager :)
[01:38] <LaserJock> hmm?
[01:39] <Burgwork> nealmcb: there is going to be a commandline updater
[01:39] <nealmcb> tell me more :-)
[01:39] <nealmcb> one that uses the same python logic behind update-manager?
[01:42] <nealmcb> burgwork ^^
[01:42] <Burgwork> yes
[01:43] <nealmcb> thanks
[01:43] <Burgwork> justa  sec, getting the spec
[01:43] <nealmcb> :-)
[01:44] <Burgwork> https://blueprints.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-upgrade-tool
[01:47] <ajmitch> hi Burgwork 
[01:47] <Burgwork>  hey ajmitch
[01:51] <nealmcb> Burgwork: thanks - I'll look at it later when I'm running firefox.  launchpad seems to have cookie and certificate problems, according to lynx
[01:54] <LaserJock> nealmcb: I think elinks works with Launchpad
[01:54] <LaserJock> I saw that bug in my bugmail today
[01:56] <nealmcb> LaserJock: thanks - I'll try that out... after my big upgrade finishes so I can install it....
[02:12] <nealmcb> LaserJock: elinks works - thanks
[02:13] <nealmcb> Burgwork: This site is accessible by launchpad admins and members of the Launchpad   Beta Testers team only.
[02:13] <Burgwork> nealmcb: nuke the word "beta" out of the url
[02:13] <nealmcb> ahh - but it is on the normal launchpad site...
[02:13] <nealmcb> :-)
[03:02] <exobuzz> hello
[03:03] <mralphabet> hello
[03:03] <exobuzz> i have a question. i asked it on #ubuntu but got no reply, but i guess this channel is more suited as its a server issue
[03:03] <exobuzz> anyway here goes: Im adding a usb hd to machine i have only remote access to. As such, I don't want to mount it from fstab, as that happens before networking is started, and in case of some failure, i want to be able to log in. So I intent to create an entry in fstab with noauto and "0" for fsck order so it doesnt get checked/mounted. Then I can mount later on. I want it mounted BEFORE apache/proftp etc as it will have files on
[03:03] <exobuzz> it needed by those daemons and others. Are the update-rc.d "defaults" suitable for this, ? does the system normally run fsck on every boot and fsck decides whether a disk is dirty or not?
[03:13] <Innatech> IIRC, fsck is only run if the disk is found to be marked dirty @ startup, but I might be a little fuzzy on that. 
[03:15] <exobuzz> thanks. yeh i ran it a few times and it seems to be smart so i guess thats the right way
[03:16] <exobuzz> and looking at things the update-rc.d defaults use S20 for my script, which SHOULD be ok. as apache/proftpd are S50/S91 (this is a sysv machine no upstart etc
[03:19] <exobuzz> ok rebooting to test it :)
[03:29] <exobuzz> well. that seems to work nicely
[11:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> sorry i took a while to leave -admin, i was out
[11:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> in this instance does 'server'=ltsp server?
[11:47] <shawarma> Depends.
[11:47] <shawarma> :-)
[11:48] <shawarma> Kamping_Kaiser: What's the problem?
[11:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> i was wondering if an ltsp server has support until 2009 or 2011.
[11:56] <shawarma> Kamping_Kaiser: Dapper is supported until 2011.
[11:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> shawarma, for ltsp servers though? because desktop is only 3 years (ie 2009), with servers until 2011
[11:57] <shawarma> Kamping_Kaiser: I'm not entirely sure (don't work for Canonical).
[11:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> shawarma, ok. i'll muse over my best course of action for a day or two then :)
[11:59] <shawarma> Kamping_Kaiser: You could drop Canonical an e-mail and ask them.
[11:59] <shawarma> Kamping_Kaiser: they're very friendly, don't bite, and usually reply pretty quickly.
[11:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> shawarma, would canonical be the correct place to ask? i dont have any support contracts with tehm
[11:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> *them
[12:00] <shawarma> They decide for how long there's going to be support on stuff.
[12:00] <shawarma> http://www.canonical.com/support/webtolead
[12:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
[12:03] <shawarma> any time
[12:03] <shawarma> Kamping_Kaiser: You could try in #ubuntu-devel too.
[12:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> shawarma, hm. think i'll not do that :)
[12:11] <[miles] > mmm why is ubuntu-servers version of SpamAssassin so out of date?
[12:12] <shawarma> [miles] : spamassassin | 3.1.7-2ubuntu1 | http://se.archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages
[12:12] <shawarma> [miles] : Is that so bad?
[12:12] <[miles] > for 6.06LTS
[12:12] <[miles] > sorry
[12:12] <[miles] > should have said
[12:13] <shawarma> [miles] : Well, you answered it yourself. 6.06 means June 2006.
[12:13] <[miles] > shawarma: yeah...
[12:13] <[miles] > shawarma: I know that
[12:14] <[miles] > shawarma: but for a server... SA is quite a critical package in some situations
[12:14] <[miles] > shawarma: like the situation im in
[12:14] <[miles] > shawarma: I've compiled the latest SA tarball now
[12:14] <shawarma> [miles] : http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper-backports/mail/spamassassin
[12:15] <shawarma> [miles] : Unsupported, though.
[12:15] <[miles] > shawarma: mm ok
[12:15] <[miles] > thanks
[12:15] <[miles] > I'll keep that in mind
[12:16] <[miles] > shawarma: actually, due to the server being a spam firewall, I think I'll try to start rolling my own .deb's
[12:16] <[miles] > and keep the base Ubuntu Server 6.06
[12:16] <shawarma> [miles] : that's on option, too.
[12:17] <[miles] > shawarma: you know if there is any nice tools to build a .deb from a tarball? like rpmbuild has?
[12:18] <shawarma> [miles] : I'm not familiar with rpmbuild.
[12:20] <[miles] > ah ok np
[12:20] <shawarma> [miles] : Is it something like checkinstall?
[12:21] <[miles] > no idea mate
[12:21] <[miles] > never attemtpted to package .deb's
[12:22] <shawarma> Try a quick 'apt-cache show checkinstall'. See if the description fits your needs.
[12:23] <[miles] > ok thanks will do
[12:23] <[miles] > just hacking a perl SA pluggin
[12:23] <[miles] > then I'll try
[12:24] <shawarma> k
[12:54] <[miles] > lionel: good day
[02:10] <mvo> can someone with apache expertise can give me a hint how to reproduce https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/95325 ? I tried it in various ways and seem to be getting nowhere
[02:34] <lionel> hi [miles] 
[02:34] <lionel> (and sorry for the delay)
[02:56] <necrite> hi 
[02:56] <necrite> i have to make one step by step doc for ubuntu server installation
[02:57] <necrite> i have to knoe when ubuntu server instalation ask you for network configuration
[02:57] <necrite> anyone remember that?
[03:03] <ivoks> when? during installation :)
[03:04] <ivoks> it loads drivers first
[03:04] <ivoks> iirc
[03:07] <necrite> ivoks, mhh but it make all interfaces as DHCP .. 
[03:07] <ivoks> right
[03:07] <necrite> i find one post :)
[03:08] <ivoks> wait... i know where you can find this info
[03:08] <necrite> nice :D
[03:08] <ivoks> http://www.howtoforge.com/samba_domaincontroller_setup_ubuntu_6.10
[03:08] <ivoks> there, picture by picture
[03:10] <ivoks> so, that would be after scaning CDROM
[03:10] <ivoks> it it is a net boot installation
[03:10] <necrite> i dont know why ppl need this things :S
[03:10] <ivoks> then it is after keyboard layout
[03:58] <[miles] > hi lionel and me also, sorry for the delay
[03:58] <[miles] > jaja
[03:58] <[miles] > lionel: went to carrefour to have a MAJOR argument with them
[09:55] <r00tintheb0x> Hey guys, how can i forward X from a server to my Gnome desktop?
[10:20] <nealmcb> r00tintheb0x: ssh does x forwarding
[10:21] <r00tintheb0x> nealmcb, yeah i got it from Ubuntu+1
[10:21] <r00tintheb0x> thanks
[11:53] <radevil> hello 
[11:53] <theacolyte> Afternoon