merriamyes.  any suggestions?  -->  <cliebow> gnome-settings-maNAGER?12:20
cliebowtrhat  is what plagues me..seems associated with having an nic enabled..12:21
merriamThe desktop's unusable when I log in on the server.12:21
cliebowif i have dhcp set for hte nic and there is no dhcp server...i've never found any help for it12:22
merriamYou don't need dhcp for the server.  It should have a fixed address and provide dhcp to the clients.12:23
cliebowi have to switch back and forth on the laptop..12:24
cliebowsometimes it is ltsp server sometimes not12:24
merriamYou're running a laptop as an edubuntu server?12:26
cliebowi do my expting at home with it..12:26
cliebowboth powerpc and i38612:27
cliebowi use single nic "system"12:27
merriamSo you expect it to work properly with two nics?12:28
jgedeon_Running a single nic Edubuntu Server here too.  DHCP is being done by Endian firewall.12:28
cliebowcourse ltsp works just fine..just gnome-settings things slows things down..sometimes12:29
cliebowim feeding a hundred clients at school single nic12:30
cliebowwith dhcp on port 100112:30
merriamI can easily add a nic.  I just don't understand why it's necessary.12:30
cliebowit is not..all im saying is my prob seems associated with no addy on my eth012:30
jgedeon_Can't just static eth0?12:31
cliebowi can..until i want to use the lappie normally..i service 12 different networks so i cant hard code it12:32
jgedeon_Can't use just use different location profile?12:32
cliebowerr..probably could..but network-mangler has been so fluky lately i havnt tried12:33
jgedeon_cliebow: your running 7.04?12:33
cliebowyes..both ppc and i38612:33
cliebowmy ibook has been Rocking since Sat update12:34
jgedeon_OK...  Thought so.  Tried the 7.04 last night and this morning and was just running into too many problems to get it up before the wife got up and wanted to use a computer so I went back to 6.1012:34
cliebowi understand.ive borked mine over and over..but managed to recover..one day i had three of em borked12:35
jgedeon_Oh yesterday wasn't good.  Lost HDD in main server and thier edubuntu server had the next biggest hdd that I could grab....  LOL12:37
jgedeon_cliebow: did I read right earlier that you are running at school?12:37
cliebowyes sir12:37
cliebow12 actually12:38
jgedeon_How are you doing the printers and who can print to which printer?12:38
cliebownot very sophisticated..ltsp only prints to printers students can use12:39
cliebownever tackled it'12:40
jgedeon_Hmmm...  Ok.. I need to figure something out so that it can be assigned so students aren't printing to the printer in the classroom next door.12:40
LaserJockhehe, they'd never do that ;-)12:41
jgedeon_LMAO  Yea and they would never steal the balls from the mouse and leave our mouses balless.12:41
jgedeon_Or move the keys around on the keyboards.12:42
LaserJockheavens no12:42
LaserJockkids are just sweet little creatures :-)12:42
cliebowone thing i do is use a nonexistent printer as default..called "pickanother"12:42
jgedeon_But then again would I have done them things in school??????  You bet your @rse I would have.12:42
cliebowand throw out print jobs once in a while12:43
cliebowthree school have their own server..with cups only offering printers oin that building..but otherwise connected to the entire system network..12:45
cliebowdhcp on port 1001 wont cross our maned switch..so they only get ips in their native environment12:45
cliebowfrom ther ltdp server12:46
cliebowand printers in that school12:47
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jgedeon_HMM  Might have to look into lpadmin01:13
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LaserJocksbalneav: pingy pingy, ringy ringy, dingy dingy02:09
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tovellai want to continue testing feisty, but pulseaudio has not been working on my thin clients.  how can i switch back to whatever sound system was used with edgy?02:36
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sbalneavLaserJock: hello04:01
LaserJocksbalneav: hi, did you write up some stuff on updating for the Handbook?04:19
sbalneavWorking on some stuff now.04:20
sbalneavWhen's my deadline?04:20
ajmitchhi sbalneav04:22
sbalneavHello ajmitch04:22
LaserJocksbalneav: now :-)04:39
LaserJocksbalneav: I asked HedgeMage about some images we seem to be missing04:39
LaserJockshe said she doesn't have them04:39
LaserJockthey are update*04:39
LaserJockdo you have them?04:39
sbalneavNo, I don't.04:39
sbalneavLaserJock: The handbooks also on the web, yes?  Generated from the XML regularly?04:40
LaserJockon doc.ubuntu.com04:40
LaserJockbut I don't think it's being updated :(04:41
Burgundaviadoc should update daily04:42
Burgundaviaping mdke if it isn't04:42
sbalneavLaserJock: I'm not going to get done what I wanted tonight, that's pretty clear to me.  However, if I can update some more stuff by go-live, and it's on the web, that will help us.04:43
LaserJockBurgundavia: I think maybe website building broke, and since it's long after string freeze probably nobody bothered to fix it04:46
LaserJockin fact, now that I think of it, I might have broke it04:46
LaserJocksbalneav: you have the doc team repo though right?04:47
sbalneavYeah, I update from there.04:47
sbalneavIt's the one you gave me, right?04:47
LaserJockthe feisty branch04:48
LaserJockgive me one sec though, I need to commit some stuff04:48
LaserJockok, commited04:54
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LaserJockoh doh05:00
LaserJockI figured it out05:00
LaserJockdoc.ubuntu.com is built from trunk05:01
LaserJockI've been working in the feisty branch05:01
LaserJocksbalneav: ok, I've synced everything up, tomorrow the version on doc.ubuntu.com should be the latest05:13
LaserJocksbalneav: so you didn't do the "Keeping your Edubuntu server in shape" section of server.xml?05:20
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narutosanmay I know how many proposals are rated for the gsoc,06:34
LaserJockit's still pretty early06:34
narutosanLaserJock: Hello !!06:35
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cbx33hey RichEd09:50
RichEdhi pete09:50
ajmitchhi RichEd, cbx3309:51
RichEdhi ajmitch09:51
cbx33hey ajmitch09:51
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juliuxhi RichEd10:05
RichEdhi juliux, ogra10:05
ograhey RichEd10:06
cbx33hey ogra, juliux10:06
ajmitchhi ogra, how's it going?10:06
juliuxhi cbx33 how are you?10:07
ograajmitch, fighting bugs10:08
ajmitchah yes10:09
ograi just found a stray sleep(5) in ldm :)10:09
ajmitchthat'd be annoying10:09
ograand i always wondered why it takes so long to start :P10:09
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cbx33ogra: oooh do i not recall that being there?10:10
cbx33mybe now10:10
ogranot in the greeter code10:10
cbx33my mistake10:10
ograits hidden in the ldm code itself10:10
ograi also statred hacking on a greeter in C/gtk ...10:11
cbx33i thought you hated C10:11
ograi do10:14
ograbut the resulting binary is 19k big ...10:15
ograthats quite tempting10:15
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maccam94anybody on? i have a question about large-scale maintenance02:01
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RichEdmaccam ? fire away ... let me see if I can direct you02:12
maccam94i'm wondering how one would manage updates and changes to hundreds of computers on a network02:14
jsgotangcooh that02:15
RichEdmaccam94: i'm open to correction, but from what I understand, you can set up the workstations to point to a single "update server" which would then be the only machine needing to connect to the net02:15
RichEdyou can also create a group of people who would be allowed (through their usuual login/pass to be allowed to accept updates from this central machine.02:16
maccam94RichEd, so it would be possible to get all of the computers to duplicate the configuration of one machine?02:16
jsgotangcomaccam94:  are you saying similar to WSUS?02:17
RichEdmaccam94: strictly speaking, that would be LTSP FAT client, which will be in 7.10 ... i.e. identical single image. But the method I described above will essentially give the same (if not identical) config state to all machines.02:17
maccam94fat client02:18
maccam947.10? :-\02:18
RichEdversion 7.10 = 2007 October02:18
ograwell, a fat client is actually diskless02:18
maccam94well these machines all have disks02:18
jsgotangcoit uses the hardware of the machine02:18
maccam94they're powerful enough to run an OS, but network authentication, networked /home, and mass updates (and program installations) would be desired02:19
maccam94i'm writing up a proposal to a committe in charge of deciding the technology plan for a high school for the next 5 years02:20
ograwhat yu want is rather having a package proxy i your network and distributing packagelists via dpkg --get-selections/--set-selections to the different workstations02:20
maccam94ogra, so then all of the machines would have to download the files on their own? or would they use a local apt-mirror?02:21
ograand then have the workstations run a script once a day to rsync the lists and upgrade from the package proxy accordig to the packagelist02:21
ograthats how i would do it ;)02:21
maccam94ogra, so it is simple to push that dpkg command to all of the machines at once?02:22
ograi'm sure there are thousands of solutions for mass maintenance on debian based systems :)02:22
maccam94ogra, haha i'm just looking for one that's simple and easy to explain02:22
ograyou run dpkg --get-selections > packagelist,txt02:22
ogra(on your master machine)02:22
RichEdogra: this is worth documenting as a how to ... it will be a significant requirement this year. we may even want to run a small tutorial on this at UES ?02:23
ograthen you copy packagelist.txt to the client and run: dpkg --set-selections < packagelist.txt02:23
ograafter that apt-get upgrade ...02:23
ograRichEd, thats documented a million times ....02:23
maccam94ogra, how would you copy it to the client and get it to do that without manually logging into each client?02:23
maccam94i'm trying to find a solution that will help the one school IT administrator manage 700 computers02:24
RichEdogra: on our site(s) or just debain for now ?02:25
ogra#!/bin/sh \n rsync rsync://server/tmp/packagelist.txt /root/packagelist.txt \n apt-get update \n dpkg --set-selections < /root/packagelist.txt \n apt-get upgrade02:26
ograsomething like that ...02:26
ograas cronscript on the client02:26
ograRichEd, surely anywhere in the server docs02:26
ograand i'm sure in several debian documentations as well ...02:27
ograits as common as "howto setup network authentication" ;)02:27
maccam94ogra, so that is something that has to be included in the initial installation? there's no way to just send some sort of command over the network to all of the clients?02:28
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ograubuntu workstation installs dont listen on any ports to the outside world ... you need to set up soemthing yourself, but its usually something you never touch again after you set it up once in your life02:29
ograapart from that there might be tools ...02:29
ograi never looked, since that script slution is the easier way02:30
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ogramaccam94, http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/doc/maint/ probably you find some other suggestions there02:34
ograeven though thats for debian, the principles will be the same in ubuntu02:35
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maccam94unfortunately the guides seems to be mainly about administering a single machine02:38
ograah, sorry then02:39
ograbut there are tons of such howtos even for mass maintenance02:39
maccam94that's what I figured, I just can't seem to find any this morning ;-)02:40
RichEd<maccam94> i'm writing up a proposal to a committe in charge of deciding the technology plan for a high school for the next 5 years <- when is your deadline ? it may be an idea to try to work together on knocking some of the generic stuff into a "Edubuntu / Ubuntu" doc02:41
ograor scripts something easy together02:42
maccam94i said I would have it for the next meeting, which is on (or around) april 24th02:42
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maccam94i'd be happy to help brainstorm, for the next couple of weeks i'll be spending at least an hour a day on this02:43
RichEdmaccam94: I'm quite busy until wed/thu, but would be interested in helping ... as this will be useful for me as well. can you pop me an email ? richard@ubuntu.com02:43
maccam94sure thing02:43
ograknix_, got NM problems ?02:44
RichEdmaccam94: can you see my /msg window to you ?02:45
maccam94got it02:45
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stormchas3rogra, just seeing if NM is fixed for feisty02:45
ograedubuntu is waiting for that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/10002102:46
stormchas3rgreat, and so am I02:46
ograanybody is it seems *g*02:46
ograi was pondering to drop NM completely ... but then we'd miss it on workstation installs02:47
jsgotangcoplease drop NM02:47
ograits evil crappy software02:47
ograjsgotangco, i dont want to differ to much from ubuntu :) but then it needs to support our setup ...02:48
ograjust hope it doesnt get fixed for release, then i have to drop it ;)02:48
jsgotangcoi would prefer KDE's wlassistant than NM02:48
jsgotangcoonly if for wireless access02:49
ograwe just dropped all the kde libs from the main CD :)02:49
stormchas3rI hope it gets fixed.  I wanna get this in my school02:49
ogramake them write a proper gtk frontend ;)02:49
jsgotangcoNM or edubuntu?02:49
ograwell, easy fix if you run ltsp just remove it after install for now ...02:50
stormchas3rwill I still be able to boot to the server w/o ltsp?02:52
ograi meant to uninstall NM02:52
ogranot ltsp :)02:53
cliebow__knetwrokmanager is working super on this ibook in feisty 8~)02:53
ograreally ?02:55
ograeven with ltsp ?02:55
ograi thought they use the same backend02:55
cliebow__im not running the ibook as ltsp server..or client for that matter..assuming last was meant for me02:56
ograyeah it was :)02:57
ograNM breaks static interface configs and only accepts one interface running ... which in turn tears down all ltsp services02:57
ogra(as long as you have a two NIC setup:))02:57
stormchas3rwhat are the differences betweem edgy edu and feisty edu?02:59
jsgotangcowell having a newer version of gnome for starters03:00
ogratwo CDs03:00
ograinstead of one03:00
jsgotangcoand 2 cds03:00
stormchas3rso should I use edgy for the time being till NM gets fixed?03:00
ografor ltsp we have a new sound architecture that emulates alsa in the session (fixes tons of sound probs)03:00
stormchas3ri c03:01
ograa new pinting architecture03:01
ogralost of speedups03:01
ograa new ltsp session managemet tool (thin-cliet-manager)03:01
stormchas3rdo you remember me ogra?03:01
cliebow__ogra:Wow..then cant wait to pull the other laptop out03:01
ograthats the main changes ... apart from that many many bugfixes indeed and all chages you see in ubuntu03:01
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SiCkhey guys, just wondering if anyone could help with a little autologin problem on the clients im having?03:23
ograSiCk, tell us about it03:27
SiCkwell, i have pretty much everything set up for it, but they dont login at all03:29
SiCki did the kiosk setup that you wrote at one point if i recall03:29
SiCkand it worked once, that was a good while ago, but i've had no luck since03:29
SiCkthey have their custom .xsessions , and the account is setup with disabled password etc.03:30
ograyou want a webkiosk mode or plain autologin to a desktop ?03:30
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ograwell, what did you change with the existing webkiosk mode ? since you say it worked once, why did it stop ?03:30
SiCkI'd reloaded the machine a few times since that03:31
SiCkfrom various problems and other people wanting to use the machine.. heh03:31
SiCknow i have something dedicated and i cant get it going on it03:31
ograso you recreate your client setup with ltsp-build-client --kiosk ?03:32
ogra(or was it --webkiosk ?, cant remember)03:32
SiCkit was --kiosk, but i went through and did it pretty much manually03:32
SiCkso i've maybe missed something there?03:32
ograwell, --kiosk should work, try using it and make your modifications later :)03:32
ograone by one, so you can see when it breaks :)03:33
SiCkheh, true... i'll have a go at that then... ill just run through that wiki tutorial03:33
ograno, thats not proper03:34
ograits just about how to write a plugin geerally03:34
SiCkso is that possibly where i'm going wrong then03:34
ograthe proper mode is builtin in ltsp-build-client03:34
ograit does some more stuff the example plugin doesnt have03:35
SiCkah, right.. well the only thing i've installed after that plugin-esque thing is opera realy03:35
SiCkand the custom .xsession03:36
ogracheck the difference :) /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-kiosk03:36
SiCki dont have a 030-kiosk :s03:37
ograyou dot run feisty :)03:37
SiCkedgy im afraid03:37
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SiCkthis is okay to do manually?03:40
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SiCkcool, i'll let you know how it goes!03:41
SiCkthanks again ogra03:41
ograbut you ca also copy it into the plugin dir and just let it run ... the only change you need to make is drop the pulseaudio line ... that didnt exist in edgy03:41
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kenthomsonIs someone awake? I have a long question which would help me whether to use edubuntu or not? Is anyone experienced enough listening? Only than i would type the whole situation to illustrate my problem04:41
rockprincesshello kenthomson! I don't know if I can helpp you, but i'll try04:42
kenthomsonrockprincess, thats enough motivation, So listen...04:42
rockprincesshello kenthomson! I'm using Edubuntu myself, but I'm no developer!04:42
rockprincessupppps typed the hello bit again lol04:43
rockprincessok, i'm listening ;)04:43
ograkenthomson, just shoot :)04:43
rockprincesskenthomson: orga is your man! he's the man in the know ;)04:44
kenthomsonI need to set up a lab with 8-10 boxes. I need to coach kids on it. They will do simple stuff like paint-programs/draw/logo/simple document editing/games. So what is better a DAMN SMALL LINUX on the thin client itself (you see this would eliminate the need of the server) or a full fledged edubuntu with a central server a switch and thin clients? I think if i can run DSL on thin clients itself (without the server) than that would be a lot of cost-sa04:44
kenthomsonving...but as you can see i don't know much, please pragmatise and illustrate a solution for me. Thanks for listening04:44
kenthomsonogra, there you go!04:44
ogramaintenance wise a thin client solution is always the best04:45
ograsimply because you only need to care for a single machine04:45
ograhaving a to of workstations means you also need to care for each one individually04:46
kenthomsonogra, but If i can simply pop-in a live-cd in each of the machines (the supposed to be-thin clients) than DSL can comfortably run04:46
RichEdhi kenthomson : Are you the Ken we met at the dinner with maddog in SF last year ?04:46
kenthomsonogra, without any maintenance issues! Despite kids can't run much havoc04:46
ograbut you need to care for the liveCDs etc ...04:46
kenthomsonRichEd, I hope we could have, but unforunately no ;-)04:47
kenthomsonogra, right!04:47
kenthomsonogra, what would you recommend as the hardware configuration of a typical thin client04:47
ograwhat if a kid wants to do somethig thats not provided by the CD for example04:47
kenthomsonogra, hardware configuration for a typical thin client, please04:48
ograa tyical thin client should have 300-800Mhz, 64-256 MB, at least 2Mb graphics memory and a network card thats capable of doing netbooting04:48
kenthomsonogra, no HDD needed? not even little?04:48
kenthomsonogra, If i have a HDD to spare for each machine can i enable cache/something similar to speed up the process04:49
ograyou need a rather beefey server for that .... 256M to run the server itself and ~128M per connected client04:49
kenthomsonogra, i am not talking about RAM but HDD for each seperate TCs04:50
ograwell, you could fiddle something yourself to bot from the HDs, but i doubt thats wrth the amount of time you need to put into it over a default edubuntu04:51
kenthomsonogra, and could please be kind enough to tell me about the hardware configuration of a server capable of supporting such 8-10 TCs?04:51
ograyou ca use the HDs as storage space though04:51
ograyeah, see above for the server04:51
ograyou should have a decent CPU alog the memory requs ...04:51
ograand if you plan to extend that setup a gigabit NIC on the server makes sense as well04:52
kenthomsonCPU = ****MHZ?04:52
ograup to 10 cliets a 100MBit one should do though04:52
ograwell, something decent ... a current intel CPU04:53
kenthomsonogra, could you put that statement into numbers?04:53
ograi never thsted the lower end here ...04:53
ograso i cant tell numbers04:53
kenthomsonogra, as in...say above 3.0GHZ or a rough idea?04:53
ograshould be fine, yes04:54
ograaround or above 3ghz is surely working ...04:54
ograthe server cpu totally depends on the apps you run ...04:54
kenthomsona)<2.0GHZ b)2,0-2.5GHZ c)2.5-3.0-GHZ d)>3.0ghz. please select a appropriate one for my needs ;-)04:54
kenthomsonogra, not interested anymore? ;-(04:55
ograwell, i cant tell you much more abut that and need to get my work done here else we wont have a 7.04 release04:56
ograsomething around 3 ghz should suffice ...04:56
ograif you run no apps 1ghz will be ok04:56
kenthomsonMEM = 512MB or greater or lesser?04:56
ograif you start firefox and openoffice get 3.5ghz or something04:56
kenthomsonogra, ok04:57
ograit *totally* depends o the usage04:57
ogramem as i said above04:57
kenthomsonogra, i told you my usage, simple apps for little kids04:57
kenthomsonogra, nothing at all heavy but i would like decent performance anyways04:57
rockprincesskenthomson: i can tell you what i'm using here04:57
kenthomsonrockprincess, i am all ears (| - -|)04:58
kenthomsonrockprincess, changed your mind?04:58
rockprincesskenthomson: i'm using a amd athlon 3800+ (single core), 2gb ddr2 ram04:59
rockprincesskenthomson: 320gb hdd04:59
kenthomsonand how many TCs does this server support?04:59
rockprincessat the moment connected to 6 thinclients04:59
SiCkhey ogra, when you have a couple minutes, the kiosk thing still aint workin.. grr , still no autologin, its like it's not even trying...04:59
kenthomsonHow's the performance04:59
ograSiCk, hmm04:59
kenthomsonrockprincess, how's the performance? Is there room for any more TCs or something04:59
rockprincesswell, the performance is ok so far, but the start up process is a bit tricky so far....i can only boot up one machine after another...not all at the same time :(05:00
SiCkthough one thing i did notice.. when it tries the first time, it gives the little drum noise that a password is incorrect?05:00
rockprincessbut when it's all up, it runs smoothly05:00
ograSiCk, you used the plugin with ltsp-build-client ?05:00
SiCkno, i manually did it.. is it worth trying the plugin, yeah/05:00
cliebow_kenthomson, i regularly run 35 clients on a dual opteron 1800 with 4 gig ram05:01
kenthomsonrockprincess, can you please enlighten me about your network setup? (cables, hub/switches, routers)05:01
ogradid you replace $ROOT everywhere in the commandds etc ?05:01
kenthomsoncliebow, what is a deal opteron clicked at?05:01
kenthomsoncliebow, *clocked05:01
tovellai want to continue testing feisty, but pulseaudio has not been working on my thin clients.  how can i switch back to whatever sound system was used with edgy?05:02
rockprincessi'm not sure what switch is used, the network admin at school set it up for me, but i'll have a look after the eastern holidays....05:02
ogratovella, whats not workinfg with it ?05:02
cliebow_3579 bogomips if thst means anything05:02
ogranot really :)05:02
SiCkogra: yeah, i had set EXPORT ROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386 beforehand05:02
kenthomsoncliebow, unfortunately not05:03
tovellaogra: no sound on the thin clients05:03
ograSiCk, well, make sure that was actually used05:03
kenthomsoncliebow, can you please tell me about your network setup (cables, hub/switches, routers)05:03
ogratovella, what did you do to check that pulse isnt runing ?05:03
rockprincesskenthomson: i think it05:03
cliebow_gig nics in ldapserver fileserver ltspserver..100 meg switches..05:03
rockprincesskenthomson: i think it's a 100mbit switch for 8 thinclients (although i'm only using 6), dont know the brand/model yet05:04
tovellaogra: about a week ago i switched to tty1, mounted proc, used 'ps'  also tried several ways of loading it - to no avail (all sorts of error messages).05:05
ogratovella, if pulse doesnt start or work, i'D like to know about it and fix it05:05
kenthomsoncliebow, rockprincess can you tell me about the type/configuration of my NIC on the server? I need 8-10 simple TCs05:05
SiCkogra: it was definatly used... something just hates me in ltsp heh05:05
ogratovella, ca you set a rootpw in your client: sudo /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd05:05
SiCkwell, gdm even05:05
ogratovella, then switch to tty1 on a booted cliet and log in05:05
kenthomsonogra, what kernel version would i need for my Core 2 Duo?05:06
tovellaogra: sure, just a moment while my thin client machine starts.05:06
ograthen check if pulse is running and i'd also like t see the output of "dpkg -l ldm"05:06
ogra(check if its runing with: ps ax|grep pulse)05:06
ograkenthomson, the oe we ship :)05:07
kenthomsonogra, please don't humuor a confused beginner, is it the generic-kernel or something else? I heard AMD-guys(64-bit) need a special kernel05:08
ograbut since you didnt ask which kernel version to use with an amd64 the one we ship by default is right05:08
ogra(which would be -geeric, yes)05:08
kenthomsonogra, that is better ;-)05:09
kenthomsonand by that we mean that i can simply pop-in a std. edubuntu cd and carry on installation as usual, and the generic-kernel would utilise the full potential of my PC (c2d)?05:09
rockprincesskenthomson: i'm using a amb64 processor as well, but decided against the 64bit edubuntu version05:09
kenthomsonrockprincess, and the reason?05:10
kenthomsonrockprincess, don't the rest of the pipelines go waste?05:10
tovellaogra: "ps|grep pulse" shows me nothing, and "dpkg -l ldm" shows 5.0.405:10
ograunless you start using funy amounts of memory (>4Gig on a 32bit system for example) you should always be fine with the -generic kernel05:10
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ogratovella, is that a newly created feisty client chroot  or is that an upgrade ?05:11
tovellaogra: created about 2 days ago05:12
ograwhat happens if you try running pulseaudio manually ?05:12
ogra(should at least give some errors)05:12
KING_DONHey folks, quick question regarding artwork/splash screens... how would one go about customizing the orange Edubuntu splash screen? i.e. put in a home-made one05:13
ograKING_DON, i think there is a guide on the wiki somewhere05:13
ograbtw we dropped the orange splash in feisty :) its black again, to many complaints05:13
tovellaogra: failed to open cookie file '/root/.esd_auth': Read-only file system05:14
tovellafailed to load module "module-esound-protocol-unix" (argument: ""): initialization failed.05:14
ograso pulse is istalled :)05:15
ograthats already good ...05:15
ogranow why doest it start ...05:15
kenthomsonogra, thank you, i shall leave now05:15
KING_DONogra; Ack, I forgot that I need to update my systems to feisty. Well I suppose I should put aside a few hours and do that today or tomorrow...05:15
KING_DONthanks a lot.05:15
tovellaogra: i'm not sure.  we (you and i) did some troubleshooting on this problem about a week ago.05:16
ograah, i remember05:16
ograyour soundcard worked in edgy ?05:17
tovellaogra: i ended up changing the sound card, reinstalling the server software - got no results.05:17
tovellaogra: yes - sound edgy.05:17
ograwhich card was that again ?05:17
tovellaogra: at first a sound-blaster-live, switched to a c-media cm873805:18
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ograwell, i fixed the issue with the module loadig, so your sb with the module options should work ...05:19
ograc-media should be supported by snd-cmipci05:20
ogracan you check thats loaded with lsmod|grep snd05:20
tovelladoesn't appear to be loaded...05:21
tovellai just noticed something interesting...05:21
ogratry to modprobe it05:21
=== ogra listens
tovellaogra: sorry - i overlooked it - it was loaded, already.05:23
crimsun(it may help to use `lsmod |grep ^snd_ |head -3' )05:24
tovellai noticed that "lspci" from a terminal window shows the correct card...05:25
tovellathe same command from tty1 shows an intel 82801ca/cam.05:25
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tovellais this some sort of "emulation" done by ltsp, or is it my crappy dell-poweredge-2300's bios/mainboard?05:26
ogracrimsun, i saw you saying to someone he'd need to have esdcompat for pulse on the server ... ESPEAKER is set there pointing to the client, so that shouldnt be needed on the server, right ?05:26
crimsunogra: ah, true.05:26
ogratovella, *dont* do *anything* in X05:27
ograwe're only working on the client at tty105:27
ogra(in X you will only see server hardware)05:27
tovellaogra: gotcha, i was only looking for the card there.  everything else has been done from tty1.05:27
tovellaogra: so the intel card is the thin-client's sound device?05:28
ograwhatever lspci on the client tty says05:29
tovellaoh, i see.05:29
ograso its an intel card ?05:29
tovellaogra: exactly.05:30
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tovellaintel 82801ca/cam ac' 97 (rev 02).05:30
ograthe only intel soundcard module i know is snd-intel8x0 .... not sure thats the right one though05:30
crimsun(probably driven by snd_intel8x0)05:30
crimsun`amixer|more' on the client tty1 would help05:31
ograwell tere is no trace of 82801ca/cam in modinfo05:31
ograit lists AA and AB05:32
ogragive that pulse didnt start i'd guess there is no sounddevice05:32
crimsunCA == ICH305:33
crimsunsound/pci/intel8x0.c:52:                "{Intel,82801CA-ICH3},"05:33
ogratovella, do you see that module loaded ? (snd_intel8x0)05:34
tovellaogra: yes, it's loaded.05:34
ograok, what about the above command crimsun gave05:35
tovellahang on.05:35
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tovellaogra: yes i see about 2 pages of output from that.05:37
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crimsunif you could copy and paste that output onto http://pastebin.ca , that would help05:40
tovellacrimsun: will do.05:40
ograthats tricky from a thin client05:40
ograyou can scp it to the server though05:40
tovellaogra: not sure how...when i try "amixer > amixer.txt", i get ...'read-only file system'.05:43
ograamixer > /tmp/amixer.txt05:43
ogra /root isnt writeable :)05:43
crimsuntovella: is that all of it?05:49
tovellai think so, let me double check.'05:49
crimsun(you may have more beyond the page mark)05:50
tovellathat's all of it.05:50
crimsunon the client, is `aplay -Dplughw:0 /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav' audible?05:51
tovellalet me check.05:52
tovellayes, i hear the file play.05:53
crimsunexcellent, so it's a pA issue.05:53
ogrado you have an lts.conf you created yourself ?05:54
tovellano it was created by 'ltsp-build-client'05:54
ograhave a look at /etc/init.d/ltsp-client05:55
ograthere is the snippet to start pulse05:55
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ograif you copy it and run it manually from the commandlie that should give us sme insight05:56
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ogra(you need to copy it with all the subsequent lines with \ in them)05:56
cliebow_ijust cant figger why my wireless card wont work in kernels after
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tovellaogra: ok, i've manually entered the pulseaudio commands  - http://pastebin.ca/42108906:29
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sbalneavMorning all06:30
ograthats weird ...06:30
sbalneavHey ogra!06:30
ograhey scott06:31
LaserJockhi sbalneav and ogra06:31
tovellaogra: wait - on one of the lines i spelled protocol wrong, let me try again.06:32
ogratovella, dont worry06:32
ograoh, you mean in the input06:32
tovellaogra: yeah. looking at the part that couldn't find the module file, i saw "protocAl".  now there are different errors - copying.06:34
ograthe funny stuff is that module-native-protocol-tcp is i the oulseaudio package06:34
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tovellaogra: alrighty, i've finished copying the output from pulse audio - http://pastebin.ca/42110706:45
ograare yiz sure you had the -n in your command ?06:48
ogra(the last bit of the command from te initscript)06:48
tovellaogra: yes, but i left off the "&"06:48
ograthat would only drop pulse into the background06:49
ograbut your output looks like its reading the default config ...06:49
ograwhich --n should avoid06:49
ograonly one dash indeed (-n)06:49
tovellai also ommitted the 'log to syslog' part 'cause it didn't show any output that way.06:50
ograwell, important are --system and -n06:51
ogratry if: pulseaudio --system -n --disable-shm -L module-detect06:55
ograstarts it06:55
ogra(it shouldnt return ot the prompt if it did start)06:55
ograthats the very basic set op args to get it running ...06:56
ograif it starts this way we ca add option by option and see when it breaks06:56
tovellait gives the 44100 changed to 48000 Hz message, but seems to have started.:)06:58
ogractrl-c it06:58
ograand lets first add --no-cpu-limit, --resample-method=trivial and --high-priority06:58
ograand see if it still starts06:59
tovellayes, it starts07:00
ogranow to the modules07:00
ografirst try with -L "module-native-protocol-tcp auth-anonymous=1"07:00
ograthat should start it with an open tcp port for the desktop session07:00
tovellayes, but i get the error message "socket(PF_INET6): Address family not supported by protocol".07:02
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tovellaperhaps just a warning?07:02
ograyes, thats fine, as long as the server runs07:03
ograadd: -L "module-esound-protocol-tcp auth-anonymous=1"  to it now07:04
ograand try again ... (you will very likely get the warning twice this time)07:04
tovellastill starts.07:05
ograwell, then it either breaks on module-volume-restore or on rescue-streams ...07:06
ograso add -L module-volume-restore as well07:06
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ograyou should now nearly have the same commandline in front of you as the initscript writes07:07
tovellaboth added, still works.07:07
ograboth ?07:07
ogranow thats weird07:07
ogras you have all lines the initscript has but it starts ?07:08
tovellaalso added ...protocol-unix...still starts07:08
ogra(apart from the syslog)07:08
ograyour lts.conf has SOUND=True ?07:10
ogra(and no line for SOUND_SERVER)07:10
tovellano, but i think i've found the problem.07:10
ograwhat is it ?07:11
tovellai used bash history to try what i typed again - failed again.  i noticed that what you gave me had module-detect once.  the script i printed has module detect twice. getting rid of the second instance makes it load.07:12
ograoh, ok07:12
ograi remember i dropped one of the module-detect lines recently07:13
=== ogra looks at his changelogs
tovellai'm going to comment it out, then reboot.07:13
ogra ltsp (5.0.5) feisty; urgency=low07:13
ogra .07:13
ogra   * move printserver startup, localdev helperscripts and soundserver07:13
ogra     startup after start of X to speed up booting (should partially07:13
ogra     help with LP #97456)07:13
ogra   * add pulseaudio-esound-compat to ltsp-server-standalone recommends07:13
ogra     (for people feeling the need to still use esddsp with apps)07:13
ogra   * drop duplicated module-detect option from pulseaudio startup to07:13
ogra     avoid warning in client bootlogs07:13
ograuploaded today *g*07:13
ograi didnt now it braks things, on my test clients it only spilled a warning07:14
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tovellaaha, login sound works - thanks ogra.07:17
ogragreat to know i already fixed it, thanks for helping tracking that...07:18
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max_898zI have a 700mhz 256ram 20gig hd is it worth runing edubuntu or should I Xubuntu or some less demanding distro and then install indervidual packages?07:38
ogra700/256 should be fine with edubuntu07:39
ograeven though xubuntu will leave you more free ressources07:39
max_898zgreat will give it a spin, thanks...07:39
ograsbalneav, i wrote a C/gtk greeter over the weekend07:51
ograthe slowdown isnt the greeter08:06
ograwell, might be faster, but since the delay happens elsewhere you dot notice it08:07
ograsbalneav, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13546/08:07
ogragcc -o c_greeter -g c_greeter.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0`  `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0`08:07
ograstill crashes in plain X i need more debugging time08:07
ograbut you can run it from a terminal to test it08:08
ogra(gnome-terminal i mean)08:08
ograsadly the delay sits somewhere deeper in /usr/sbin/ldm ...08:08
ograif you have any idea why it takes *eaxctly* 15secs between starting X and getting the greeter up i'd owe you beer until the end of my life08:09
ograi mean if you look at the code, there is a xauth call with a waitpid between these two events ... even if i comment out all xauth stuff nothing changes ... still 15secs08:10
sbalneavok, tell you what.  I can't look at it now, but I'll look at it tonight.08:11
ograi tried the breezy greeter we had (two plain gtk entry widgets, not even a window) which should starts breezingly fast ... 15secs08:11
sbalneavYou owe me nothing, however.  I feel we're far, FAR in your debt.08:11
ograso it apparently never was the greeter that was slow, but the ldm python script08:11
ograi cant fork properlyin shellscripts and for a C rewrite its to late ...08:12
sbalneavThis cycle I feel I really let you down, because my own huge project consumed almost all of my time, and I didn't get much time to work on LTSP at all.  I will make up for it in feisty + 1 I promise.08:12
sbalneavI'll track it down tonight.08:12
ograyou didnt let me down08:12
ograyou helped a lot and i know you have a day job08:13
sbalneavYeah, but I normally spend much more time on LTSP/Edubuntu.  But the last 5 months have been ugly here.  I'll tell you over a beer, and bring code samples of what I've been dealing with :)  You'll laugh/barf/scream in horror.08:14
sbalneavSay, BTW, meant to ask, got a new doggie yet?08:14
ograand i'm not sure i want one08:17
ograa young dog will demand a lot more ... and i already had probs freeing enough time for an old fart who only needs one walk a day08:18
sbalneavOh, you've still got a god?08:18
sbalneavYipe, dog08:18
ograi'm not sure i could copy ...08:18
ogranope, fred was the last one08:18
sbalneavOh, I see.  Thought you meant you were STILL walking one.  Sorry.08:19
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ograno, still meant "i'm still not sure i want one"08:19
ograi'm thinking about it since he's gone08:20
ograespecially since it hurts heavily to meet any dogs08:20
ograbut susie wants one ... urgently ...08:20
ograand i wouldnt want a single dog to be alone ...08:21
ograso if she gets one i'll get one too ;)08:21
sbalneavWants a dog, or a pet?  Kitties are nice, too, and demand less attention.  And if you get a goofy one like mine, they'll come when they're called, and sit on your lap all night while you're programmning :)08:21
LaserJockogra: did you have a chance to look over the Edubuntu Handbook?08:21
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ograno, sorry, will look tonight08:22
LaserJockogra: ok08:22
LaserJocksbalneav: where are you at with the Handbook?08:22
sbalneavLaserJock: Hey, I noticed yelp got fixed, and the handbooks listed right from the main screen.08:22
LaserJockyep ;-)08:22
LaserJockI pulled some strings :-)08:22
sbalneavLaserJock: I can have a few more things in it for you by tonight.  Say 10:00 PM?08:22
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sbalneavI was going to work on it as soon as I got home.08:23
LaserJocksbalneav: ok, great.08:23
sbalneavLaserJock: I notice NONE of the screencaps from TCM are included.08:23
sbalneavThey're in the repo, but didn't make it into the package.08:24
LaserJockwe need to make sure the "Keeping your Edubuntu server in shape" section of chapter 4 is ok. the xml includes links to images we don't have08:24
LaserJocksbalneav: ah, yes. I forgot to install the images. That will be fixed in the next release, I've commited it to svn.08:24
sbalneavok, I'll go over that tonight, then.08:24
sbalneavI'll capture images of the update manager.08:25
LaserJockcbx33 is supposed to send me new TCM screenshots08:25
LaserJockhe already gave me the updated text08:25
sbalneavAh, good, was just going to ask that.08:25
sbalneavstuper dooper08:25
cliebow_i want to see tcm..08:25
sbalneavcliebow_: running edubuntu feisty?08:26
cliebow_actually see it then rip into the code to see how it is put together08:26
cliebow_well ubuntu feisty..i guess08:26
cliebow_id install edubuntu-desktop in a heartbeat08:26
cliebow_matter of fact i just am08:27
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intenguhello everyone08:31
intenguhow would one create login profiles for the clients08:31
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sbalneavintengu: How do you mean, login profiles?08:36
sbalneavLike, different icons/menu picks, etc?08:36
cliebow_sblaneav: that yaboot stuff is borking install of edubuntu-desktop08:37
ogracliebow_, just move the ppc chroot out of the way during upgrade ...08:38
ograi.e. mv /opt/ltsp/powerpc /opt/08:38
ograand move it back later08:38
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ograsbalneav, btw, did you see bug 97456 ?09:04
ubotuMalone bug 97456 in ltsp "eBox 2300 boots VERY slow with Ubuntu/LTSP-5" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9745609:04
sbalneavThat's ok.  We just need to fix it.09:10
sbalneavEverything is fixable.09:10
ograwell, not in time for feisty :/09:11
ograbesides ldm its a kernel issue09:11
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sbalneavWe'll spend some hacking time on it in Seville09:13
ograright, but i'm still not after being kernel maintainer :/09:14
sbalneavOh, C'mon. You KNOW you want to be kernel maintainer.  Thats the job that gets all the sexy groupies.  You know, thousands of gorgeous, adoring women screaming "Oh, ogra, show us your initramfs tools again!!" :)09:25
ograwell, suzie wont scream :)09:25
ograif i start spending even more time on work :)09:26
ograLaserJock, i'm not through the last two toplevel sections, but got the following: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13562/09:28
ograthats beyond what i already found ... no biggies09:28
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sbalneavogra: I was going to update printing a bit tonight.  Don't drop it.09:30
ogradont forget we dont have most of the options in jetpipe ... and no serial printing support at all atm09:30
sbalneavAnd in the boot process, do I have ltsp-client where I should have \1-setup?09:30
ograltsp-client only starts services ...09:30
sbalneavok, I'll look, I wrote/updated that section.09:30
ograi.e. ldm :)09:31
ograsince today it also starts the localdev scripts, sound and printing ... (i moved that from -setup)09:31
sbalneavAs for backup, does fiesty have the "make a cd backup tool" in it?09:31
sbalneavhubackup isn't included?09:32
ograbut you can install hupbackup from universe as in edgy09:32
ograi dont think its done yet09:32
ograsivan isnt the fastest ... he might even have dropped it09:32
sbalneavI could just talk about using tape drives or rsync.  I feel we should have SOME mention about backup of user data.09:33
ograi dont think tahts urgently needed for a first release of the book ... even though its a nice to have :)09:33
sbalneavI'll throw something in there.09:35
sbalneavNext year: you NEED to talk to rocket-man about letting you come to FISL in Brazil.  I bet if you did a talk on Edubuntu, you'd have the biggest attendance of the whole show.09:36
ogralets tell him in seville09:37
ograsouth america and asia are still missing from my travel list09:37
sbalneavWhat, you've been to Antarctica?09:38
ograah, no09:38
ograand not to africa either09:38
sbalneavOK then.  We need a conference there, too.09:38
sbalneavSell Linux to Penguins. :)09:38
Burgworksbalneav: I remember doing a talk about Ubuntu in April 2005, thought it would be a small audience, because I was up against Chris DiBona. Turns out I had more people than Chris did09:38
ajmitchmorning :)09:38
ogragiven that i use to live on atlantis time we should have one there09:38
sbalneavYou lived in Atlantis?09:39
ograonly in its TZ09:39
ograits ~4h past CEST09:39
sbalneavAtlantiS or AtlantiC ?09:40
ograa bit ahead of new york time :)09:40
sbalneavWhere were you living then?09:40
ograatlantis :)09:40
ograi *am* living on atlantis TZ09:40
ograonly on its timezone :)09:41
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