[12:30] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: There was an import of [some project] 's bugs not long after we passed 100000, which bumped it by well over 1000.
[12:30] <ajmitch> zope3, silva
[12:31] <kiko> yeah, I think it was silva.
[12:31] <ajmitch> one of them
[12:31] <ajmitch> hey kiko 
[12:31] <Fujitsu> silva is the one, I just forgot the name.
[12:31] <kiko> hey ajmitch!
[12:34] <Fujitsu> In fact, it was around 1700 bugs. So we've only had 800 real ones.
[12:36] <poolie> hi kiko
[12:36] <kiko> hey poolie 
[12:36] <poolie> congratulations on the release
[12:36] <kiko> SteveA has told me things
[12:36] <kiko> thanks for saying that
[12:37] <kiko> how can I help you?
[12:47] <lifeless> silza and zope
[12:47] <kiko> silva.
[12:53] <lifeless> woops
[12:53] <lifeless> I thought zope was imported in the same time frame; and the z was a typo
[12:54] <kiko> I think zope was imported together with it, I just was fixing your typo.
[12:55] <lifeless> thank you
[01:00] <owh> Greetings all. Sexy new look, looks lovely.
[01:00] <kiko> thanks for saying that owh 
[01:01] <owh> I'm really impressed, looks almost lick-able :)
[01:04] <owh> Hey, just thought of a silly question. If I look at my "home page": https://launchpad.net/~onno-itmaze, it shows that I am "most active" in Ubuntu and Nedit. Now the former is true, the latter is not. I lodged one bug report. What's strange is that I'm working my butt off on dosfstools, which doesn't show up, doesn't show that I receive all bugs, or show any activity: https://launchpad.net/nedit, https://launchpad.net/dosfstools, 
[01:08] <kiko> owh, what sort of work have you been doing on dosfstools?
[01:08] <owh> Tracking bugs, adding comments, looking for feedback, fixing source with sistpoty, adding myself as the bug contact, writing specs, you name it :)
[01:09] <kiko> owh, that's unusual. you should have some karma registered for it at least
[01:10] <kiko> have you filed bugs, changed bug status, registered specs, etc?
[01:10] <owh> Yup.
[01:10] <owh> owh==onno-itmaze==OnnoBenschop
[01:10] <kiko> very odd
[01:11] <owh> I only noticed because I didn't think I'd done anything special to nedit, seems I was the fist to log a bug :)
[01:11] <owh> s/fist/first/
[01:15] <owh> kiko: I wasn't sure how to actually log a bug, if that's what it is, in such a way that it ended up in the right place.
[01:16] <kiko> owh, launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
[01:16] <owh> Yes, but as what?
[01:16] <kiko> sorry?
[01:17] <owh> Sorry, that wasn't that clear :-), let me try again...
[01:18] <owh> Describing the bug is fine, but, coming up with a descriptive subject was beyond me. I started with "Incorrect Karma", then "Home page shows incorrect participation", but neither felt correct.
[01:18] <owh> And I still don't really know if it is by design or not.
[01:19] <owh> Is my dosfstools activity bunched under Ubuntu?
[01:19] <kiko> maybe "My contributions to dosfstools are not recorded in karma"
[01:19] <kiko> ah!
[01:19] <kiko> is dosfstools a package?
[01:19] <kiko> if so, then yes it is
[01:19] <kiko> though you can get per-package karma by looking at ubuntu/+source/dosfstools
[01:19] <owh> Not sure what you mean by the question.
[01:19] <kiko> if it's a distribution package.
[01:20] <LaserJock> owh: if you are working on a package in Ubuntu it goes under Ubuntu
[01:20] <owh> Yes, but so is nedit.
[01:20] <owh> So, does that mean that nedit is using launchpad as their bug tracker, but dosfstools is not?
[01:20] <kiko> owh, you probably reported something against nedit upstream.
[01:20] <owh> I did, the bug was logged there and I linked the two.
[01:22] <kiko> right.
[01:22] <owh> I'm still unsure what distinguishes the two. I would think that each package would have the same home page as https://launchpad.net/nedit
[01:22] <kiko> no
[01:22] <kiko> upstream is upstream. a version packaged for a distribution is specific to that distribution.
[01:22] <kiko> upstream is what releases tarballs
[01:22] <kiko> packages are produced by the distribution team
[01:23] <kiko> at large
[01:23] <owh> So, https://launchpad.net/nedit represents upstream?
[01:23] <kiko> yes.
[01:23] <kiko> packages are all under ubuntu/+source
[01:23] <owh> But the content of that page does not at all show reality. The bug tracker for nedit has many more bugs.
[01:24] <owh> The only content inside the page is Ubuntu stuff.
[01:24] <kiko> not exactly
[01:25] <mykas0> hi everyone
[01:25] <kiko> they are bugs originally reported against ubuntu, but which were found to be upstream issues.
[01:25] <mykas0> is there any way to get the old Launchpad aspect?
[01:25] <kiko> nope.
[01:25] <mykas0> :\ gosh, it is too complicated than the former one
[01:25] <owh> The same can be said for the dosfstools. The fact that we fixed bugs resulted in non-maintainer uploads.
[01:26] <owh> In fact, I'm not sure if the maintainer is still active. I've yet to receive any response. It is possible that they're snowed under.
[01:26] <kiko> owh, that's not recorded in launchpad at least; all that's recorded is that the ubuntu dosfstools packages had issues
[01:26] <kiko> this has nothing to do with package maintainership
[01:26] <kiko> upstream is upstream
[01:26] <kiko> distribution packages are completely separate
[01:26] <kiko> and you can push bugs from one to the other
[01:27] <kiko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/nedit/+bug/81103
[01:27] <owh> So, how does that work where "upstream" doesn't appear to exist any more?
[01:27] <ubotu> Malone bug 81103 in nedit "nedit fails to launch with an X error" [High,Fix released]   - Assigned to ville palo (vi64pa)
[01:27] <kiko> owh, in that case you have a "native package"
[01:27] <kiko> it's something of an oddity but there are some cases
[01:28] <kiko> I think casper is like this
[01:28] <owh> The friendly ghost?
[01:28] <kiko> the livecd building suite that ubuntu uses
[01:29] <owh> Ah, I only know of the ghost replacement (ghost script/pdf/ps, etc.)
[01:29] <kiko> so the dosfstools upstream has been abandoned?
[01:30] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/casper
[01:30] <owh> Well, I think it would be presumptuous for me to say yes, but it's beginning to look like that.
[01:31] <owh> It might well be that it's being maintained in a completely non-transparent way somewhere else and that I have not yet found that, but I'm not seeing anything that suggests that this is in fact the case.
[01:32] <owh> I don't know enough about how processes work within Ubuntu to make a final statement of fact about this.
[01:32] <owh> I think it would be completely inappropriate for me to do anything more than suggest what I just did.
[01:32] <kiko> owh, I'm not sure I understand you. do you understand that upstream has /nothing/ to do with Ubuntu?
[01:32] <owh> I do.
[01:33] <kiko> are you talking about the dosfstools package in ubuntu?
[01:33] <owh> What I mean is this.
[01:33] <kiko> or about the upstream project?
[01:33] <owh> No
[01:33] <owh> Yes
[01:33] <owh> I see no activity.
[01:33] <kiko> is there a website or mailing list?
[01:33] <kiko> I can't seem to find much about it
[01:33] <kiko> who's the original author?
[01:33] <owh> Well, nothing that I have seen that does anything.
[01:34] <owh> Well, the current maintainer is Roman Hodek.
[01:34] <owh> The code was written by several people.
[01:34] <owh> Gimmie a mo.
[01:34] <kiko> how do they do releases?
[01:34] <LaserJock> that assumes they have releases ;-)
[01:36] <owh> The readme talks about v1 alpha and was last updated in 2004. The Changelog was updated in 2005, and talks about the current version, 2.11.
[01:36] <LaserJock> the last upstream release in Debian was in 2005
[01:36] <owh> Yeah
[01:37] <owh> I suspect that Roman is also part of Debian.
[01:37] <LaserJock> so not necessarily dead :-)
[01:37] <LaserJock> but mostly dead
[01:37] <kiko> ai ai
[01:37] <owh> I'm seeing more and more bugs relating to it.
[01:38] <owh> What I'm still tracking down is if the bugs are related to the Kernel FAT support, or dosfstools.
[01:38] <owh> The code was designed in 1995 when HDD's were much smaller. DVD's didn't exist and 4Gb files were larger than most partitions.
[01:39] <LaserJock> in any case, I *think* upstream != LP upstream != Ubuntu package
[01:39] <owh> We've fixed several overflow errors, but there seem to be issues with file names and character encodings.
[01:39] <LaserJock> so karma can come by working in ubuntu or upstream in LP
[01:39] <owh> LaserJock: I think I understand that :)
[01:39] <kiko> there is no upstream dosfstools in launchpad, is there?
[01:39] <owh> Well, there is a page, but no content.
[01:40] <LaserJock> kiko: yes, there's a product for it
[01:41] <ubotu> New bug: #102652 in launchpad "Content-Encoding: gzip and Content-type: application/gzipped-tar" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102652
[01:41] <LaserJock> upstream products still confuse me, but there's at least a product  page for it
[01:42] <owh> Heh, at least I don't feel so dumb any more :)
[01:42] <LaserJock> I just keep my head in Ubuntu
[01:43] <owh> That's what I thought I was doing, then I saw Nedit :)
[01:43] <owh> See, I should have just left well enough alone :)
[01:44] <LaserJock> owh: hehe, well you are the top contributor to nedit
[01:44] <owh> ROTFL
[01:44] <LaserJock> the *only* contributor
[01:44] <LaserJock> but still the top
[01:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[01:44] <owh> Now if I had that status for dosfstools, it would be useful :)
[01:54] <owh> FYI, the current "maintainer" page is here: http://www.hodek.net/maintain.html. The page was last updated Feb, 2006. The supposed current source for dosfstools is here: ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/Linux/LOCAL/dosfstools/, but that doesn't seem to respond.
[01:55] <owh> To my eye, the project seems abandoned. It appears as if Roman picked it up because it had been abandoned by the previous authors.
[02:00] <ubotu> New bug: #102658 in malone "In Feisty, Firefox goes black when playing MPEG in totem-mozilla" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102658
[02:03] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[02:43] <LaserJock> hi mpt 
[02:51] <ubotu> New bug: #102671 in blueprint "Blueprint lifecycle is expanded by default; looks collapsible but isn't" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102671
[03:04] <mpt> LaserJock, you get bugspam from me? why?
[03:15] <ubotu> New bug: #102674 in launchpad-answers ""Support Tracker Janitor" is an out-of-date name" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102674
[03:26] <ubotu> New bug: #102676 in malone "Bug comments use the phrase "$user said on $date"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102676
[03:53] <Fujitsu> Is there a reason that a Malone search for [can-not-install]  or [needs-packaging]  in Ubuntu returns results that don't contain the search term?
[04:00] <kiko> Fujitsu, search is voodoo
[04:01] <Fujitsu> You don't say.
[04:03] <Fujitsu> So, um... is there any way to find those bugs, which are some of the more important ones?
[04:12] <kiko> there must be
[04:12] <kiko> but right now I am so sleepy I can't figure out how
[04:12] <kiko> mpt, help?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> hi kiko 
[04:13] <kiko> hi Hobbsee 
[04:13] <kiko> you are a cruel person
[04:13] <kiko> and it is so hot here I am going to die
[04:13] <Hobbsee> why?
[04:13] <kiko> if i drink coffee I will never manage to sleep
[04:13] <kiko> it is already very hard as it is
[04:14] <kiko> damned dna tests! now they have ullrich linked to puerto. sigh.
[04:15] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:23] <owh> kiko: What temperature are you experiencing?
[04:23] <kiko> like 38C
[04:23] <kiko> and it's 11:30pm
[04:23] <owh> kiko: I'm guessing no wind.
[04:23] <kiko> yeah, something's broken in the climate here this year
[04:24] <kiko> it's always lovely in april
[04:24] <kiko> wtf is going on.
[04:24] <Fujitsu> It should be fine here, but it's like 13 outside. Melbourne has really annoying weather.
[04:24] <owh> Well, extremely cold shower will cool your body. Then wet a towel and lay that over the top of you.
[04:24] <kiko> heh
[04:25] <owh> Extra cooling in the form of a fan over the top of the towel :)
[04:25] <jsgotangco> 38C jeezzz
[04:25] <owh> I had 38C coming out of the cinema in Kalgoorlie last month, at 10:30 at night, it was an experience :)
[04:25] <Hobbsee> nice and warm
[04:26] <owh> kiko: What kind of roof do you have?
[04:26] <kiko> I don't know how you call this in english
[04:26] <owh> An extremely efficient cooling method is to install a sprinkler onto your roof, run it very slowly, the water evaporates, cooling the house dramatically.
[04:27] <owh> Of course it does assume access to water, which is not always the case.
[04:29] <kiko-zzz> let me try these techniques..
[04:33] <owh> PS, it does assume a humidity less than 100% :)
[04:41] <owh> fabbione: Are you around?
[04:48] <owh> NM
[05:02] <mpt> Fujitsu, Launchpad's search doesn't do multiple words well
[05:02] <mpt> can-not-install should find "can-not-install" and "can not install" and "can.not/install", but I guess it probably doesn't
[05:03] <mpt> but not find "not can install"
[05:03] <Fujitsu> I want [can-not-install]  to find [can-not-install] , but apparently not.
[05:03] <mpt> Please report a bug
[05:03] <Fujitsu> Will do.
[05:04] <mpt> For bonus points, tweak your example URL so that the bug reports incorrectly returned will continue to be incorrectly returned even after they're fixed/rejected
[05:07] <Fujitsu> There are over 1000 returned, so that shouldn't be a problem...
[05:15] <ubotu> New bug: #102710 in malone "Unable to search for terms like [can-not-install] " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102710
[05:35] <ubotu> New bug: #102714 in launchpad "Distrorelease package app pages should have consistent titles and headings" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102714
[05:50] <FunnyLookinHat> So the notifications I receive on new members joining my team have a URL in them that doesn't seem to be working...
[05:50] <FunnyLookinHat> for example:    https://launchpad.net/~coloradoteam/+member/james-nococomp
[05:50] <FunnyLookinHat> Returns Page Not Found
[05:51] <FunnyLookinHat> Where is the correct place to bug report this?
[05:54] <thumper> https://launchpad.net/launchpad
[05:54] <thumper> FunnyLookinHat: ^^
[05:54] <FunnyLookinHat> oh figures  : P
[05:55] <FunnyLookinHat> awesome, it's been reported several times over   : )
[06:07] <LaserJock> anybody know what cprov's "normal" working hours are?
[06:09] <jml> LaserJock: 11:00-22:00 UTC
[06:09] <LaserJock> jml: excellent, thanks
[06:14] <PWill> Just wanted to say I love the new Launchpad!
[06:31] <ubotu> New bug: #102724 in launchpad "Timeline shows incorrect ordering of release numbers" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102724
[07:09] <jpsamara> Hi I don't know if this is the place to ask, but is there a launchpad like server application that is opensource?
[07:10] <LaserJock> the stuff that runs sourceforge is open source
[07:10] <LaserJock> that's about as close as I know of
[07:10] <thumper> jpsamara: launchpad will become opensource in due course
[07:10] <thumper> jpsamara: just don't ask when as I have no idea
[07:12] <jpsamara> I'll look into sourceforge, thanks.. I hope launchpad is opensourced... I think that webapps should be opensourced as well and I really like launchpad...
[07:14] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i believe sourceforge is closed sourced now
[07:14] <jsgotangco> and there's the GForge fork
[07:14] <LaserJock> ah yes, that's what I meant
[07:14] <LaserJock> didn't know it was a fork
[07:15] <LaserJock> I thought that's what they called it :-)
[07:19] <jpsamara> thanks
[07:20] <ubotu> New bug: #102731 in launchpad "RCS import form has non-optional optional fields" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102731
[07:20] <jpsamara> anyone know of a good distro management software? something to help manage a distro, when youre building one....
[07:20] <jpsamara> i have seen T2 and LFS but not much
[07:20] <jpsamara> more
[07:25] <ubotu> New bug: #102732 in rosetta "Allow localization of icons, screenshots, etc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102732
[08:11] <orospakr> hey, how does one push into a bzr tree hosted by LP? is ssh available?  I can't find it documented anywhere, at least not without creating a project first.
[08:34] <PWill> orospakr: not quite sure what you're asking, but i think you can just use the bazaar client: http://bazaar-vcs.org/
[08:35] <orospakr> PWill_: well, yes, but Bazaar supports multiple transports.
[08:35] <orospakr> some secure, some not.
[08:36] <PWill_> i don't know much about bzr, i've always used svn
[08:37] <PWill_> i'm sure if you can do it with bzr, you can do it with launchpad, though
[08:38] <Fujitsu> orospakr: If you look on the branch page on LP, it will give you a URL.
[08:38] <orospakr> ah, good idea.
[08:38] <Fujitsu> sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~someperson/someproduct/somebranch
[08:38] <orospakr> sweet.
[08:38] <orospakr> (hopefully they'll support bzr smartserver once smartserver stabilizes a bit)
[08:39] <jml> orospakr: we certainly intend to.
[08:39] <orospakr> I figured. ;)
[08:39] <spiv> orospakr: https://help.launchpad.net/BzrHowto
[08:41] <spiv> orospakr: also, https://code.launchpad.net/ and click the "Help" tab hidden on the top left side of the page.
[08:41] <orospakr> yeah, been there already.
[08:43] <orospakr> thanks guys. :)
[08:46] <carlos> morning!
[10:27] <glatzor> carlos: morning. could you take a look at this bug please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/97420
[10:27] <ubotu> Malone bug 97420 in software-properties "software-properties-kde crashes in Turkish locale" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[10:28] <glatzor> carlos: we cannot locate the error cause
[10:28] <carlos> let me see
[10:29] <glatzor> could there be a problem in the translation anywhere?
[10:30] <glatzor> carlos: sorry, I have to leave now for work.
[10:30] <glatzor> see you
[10:30] <carlos> yeah, it smells like that
[10:30] <carlos> glatzor: don't worry, I will update the bug
[10:30] <carlos> glatzor: cheers
[10:30] <glatzor> thanks
[10:31] <glatzor> carlos: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/102773
[10:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 102773 in software-properties "l10n broken in the KDE frontend" [Medium,Unconfirmed]   - Assigned to Jonathan Riddell (jr)
[10:31] <glatzor> there is also another l10n bug in this app
[10:31] <glatzor> but since it works for the gtk interface it doesn't seem to be caused by the translaiton
[10:31] <carlos> glatzor: I guess that one is just that language packs need more update
[10:32] <carlos> oh
[10:32] <carlos> maybe
[12:51] <indraveni> mrevell, hi 
[12:51] <indraveni> mrevell, thankyou for your help
[12:51] <indraveni> mrevell, today I received a mail from Elliot
[12:51] <mrevell> indraveni: Ah, glad to hear it!
[01:08] <cprov> morning folks
[01:10] <G0SUB> indraveni
[01:10] <indraveni> G0SUB, yes
[01:10] <indraveni> cprov, good morning
[01:10] <G0SUB> indraveni: hello :) You form NRCFOSS-CDAC ?
[01:10] <indraveni> cprov, did you receive my mail?
[01:11] <G0SUB> from
[01:11] <indraveni> G0SUB, yes
[01:11] <cprov> indraveni: yes. I'm working on it right now.
[01:11] <indraveni> cprov, ok thankyou
[01:12] <indraveni> G0SUB, why? how do you know me?
[03:00] <tjs> does this function as a launchpad newbie help channel?
[03:02] <matsubara> tjs: yes, what's up?
[03:04] <tjs> friend of mine works on launchpad, was bugging me to put one of my projects on there, we'll I've created a project and I skip on over to the 'code' tab to create a bzr repo, and all I see is a form which asks for an existing branch URL.. what if I want launchpad to host the whole thing?
[03:04] <tjs> I have no existing branch url
[03:06] <mwh> you have to create a local bzr repo, then push it i think
[03:06] <tjs> ah
[03:09] <mwh> though i now entirely can't find the page which tells your the form of url to push to
[03:09] <matsubara> tjs: you can find the instructions to upload a branch in the help panel, left hand side of the screen
[03:10] <mwh> ah, indee
[03:10] <tjs> aye, it says simply to use bzr push
[03:10] <mwh> d
[03:10] <tjs> where to push to? not stated, unless I'm on the wrong help tab
[03:11] <mwh> if you go to code.launchpad.net/yourproject , the help tab there has it
[03:11] <tjs> ah, I was on the register branch page
[03:11] <tjs> my bad
[03:11] <tjs> ah much more info, thanks :)
[03:11] <mwh> well, launchpad's bad too, imho
[04:01] <BjornT> it's time for this week's non-au reviewer meeting
[04:02] <BjornT> == Agenda ==
[04:02] <BjornT> * Roll call * Next meeting * Queue status. * How are post-merge reviews of rs/trivial commits going?  (BjornT for .eu) * Training up reviewers - to discuss (BjornT for .eu) * [fasttrack]  (BjornT for .eu) * Doctest style guide (BjornT)
[04:02] <BjornT> who's here?
[04:02] <flacoste> me
[04:03] <salgado> me
[04:04] <salgado> * Next meeting
[04:05] <salgado> same time next week?
[04:05] <sinzui> mr
[04:05] <BjornT> sorry. yeah, same time next week.
[04:05] <sinzui> me
[04:05] <BjornT> == Queue status ==
[04:06] <BjornT> the queue looks quite good.
[04:06] <BjornT> there are only 5 open reviews
[04:06] <BjornT> 3 of them are older than 2 days old
[04:06] <salgado> I'm going to do my two today
[04:06] <BjornT> cool, that'd be great.
[04:07] <BjornT> i'm also going to do mine today.
[04:07] <d-arb> hi, who can I speak to about changing the email address i use to log into launchpad?
[04:07] <BjornT> == post-merge reviews and fasttrack ==
[04:08] <BjornT> did you read the meeting summary from monday?
[04:08] <salgado> yep, I did
[04:08] <flacoste> yes
[04:08] <BjornT> it was proposed to add a [fasttrack=approver]  tag for pqm
[04:09] <BjornT> that would mean that the branch could be landed without review, but it should still be reviewed after it has been merged
[04:09] <flacoste> yes, i think that's a good idea, there were quite a few non-trivial merge in the last 1.0 weeks
[04:09] <BjornT> what do you think of it?
[04:09] <flacoste> which should probably deserve a review
[04:09] <spiv> d-arb: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editemails
[04:09] <salgado> I like that idea too
[04:10] <BjornT> yeah, that was the general concensus at the last meeting as well.
[04:10] <kiko> consensus. I think it's a good idea.
[04:10] <BjornT> it allows branches to get landed quickly, while still keeping track of the review of the branch.
[04:10] <d-arb> spiv, the problem is i cannot remember the password for the email address I no longer have access to
[04:10] <BjornT> == Reviewer training ==
[04:11] <d-arb> this is where those "What was your cat's favourite kitten toy" questions are good
[04:11] <BjornT> also discussed at the monday meeting was that we need more reviewers, but it's hard to find people that know enough of Launchpad to provide good reviews.
[04:12] <BjornT> do you have any suggestions how we can train new reviewers to get up to speed?
[04:12] <kiko> so let's think about a process to train promising reviewers
[04:12] <kiko> I think we should put together a process for it
[04:12] <kiko> maybe co-reviews for two weeks
[04:12] <kiko> then an evaluation
[04:12] <statik> I'd like to offer my experience here
[04:12] <kiko> and an outline document to guide the reviewer into what he should be looking at
[04:13] <kiko> we have an outline document I wrote, right?
[04:13] <BjornT> kiko: what do you mean by "co-review"?
[04:13] <salgado> we tried pre-reviews before, IIRC... the trainee does a first review and then one of the reviewers does an actual review, comparing with the previous one from the trainee
[04:13] <kiko> BjornT, an official reviewer plus an unofficial one
[04:13] <kiko> yes
[04:14] <salgado> kiko, are we talking about the same thing?
[04:14] <kiko> yeah
[04:14] <statik> salgado: I've used that process before and liked it, when trying to get developers more familiar with a large code base so that they could eventually qualify as reviewers
[04:14] <salgado> IMO, it was very time consuming, but mostly because at that time most of the diffs were quite big
[04:14] <BjornT> kiko: ok
[04:14] <kiko> statik, no, please offer that experience, it's useful
[04:15] <BjornT> another variant of that is to have the new reviewer sending his review to an experienced reviewer for comments, before posting it to the list.
[04:15] <salgado> I think that with the current avg size of our diffs, it may work well
[04:15] <flacoste> kiko: as outline document we have TipsForReviewers, LaunchpadHackingFAQ and DesignChecklist
[04:15] <kiko> Tips For reviewers eh
[04:16] <flacoste> they could probably get a review to remove obsolete stuff
[04:16] <statik> kiko: so what I found was that for a large code base where there is a lack of experienced reviewers, the best way to get people that experience is to require them to start doing reviews. simply trying it, along with a checklist, and then looking over what the official review contained, helps devs make rapid progress in their reviewing ability
[04:17] <statik> I used to require every developer to review two bugs fixes for every bug they fixed - the ratio/quota may be totally different here, but the idea is that you explicitly encourage people to develop those skills
[04:18] <BjornT> kiko: do you remember where you wrote that outline? i also recall you writing something like that.
[04:19] <radix> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ReviewProcess
[04:19] <kiko> BjornT, isn't it TipsForReviewers?
[04:19] <radix> (as another example)
[04:20] <BjornT> kiko: TipsForReviewers doesn't really explain what the reviewer should look for in the diff.
[04:20] <kiko> humm
[04:20] <radix> the bullet point starting with "A reviewer must reject a set of changes in any of the following circumstances:" is a very helpful list, I've found
[04:21] <kiko> I recall having written something that said "Look for missing requirements"
[04:23] <statik> here is a draft of the MySQL code reviewers checklist http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/CodeReviewProcess
[04:24] <statik> I would love to see things like XSS and CSRF mentioned in a reviewers checklist
[04:26] <BjornT> ok, so we should definitely have a reviewers checklist, so that new reviewers can know what they should look for in a review.
[04:27] <BjornT> i'll give the mysql and twisted examples to lifeless 
[04:27] <kiko> cool.
[04:28] <BjornT> == Doctest style guide ==
[04:28] <BjornT> in a review for ddaa, he asked me if the indentation style in doctests was documented anywhere.
[04:29] <BjornT> i couldn't find any document talking about how doctests should be structured, and we should have such a document.
[04:29] <BjornT> any volunteers for writing it?
[04:29] <salgado> any reason for it to be different than the actual source code?
[04:29] <flacoste> i put that on my todo list a while back
[04:29] <flacoste> after repeating several times the same comment regarding the pagetest and doctest style
[04:29] <flacoste> so I can definitively do it
[04:30] <BjornT> flacoste: cool, thanks!
[04:30] <salgado> can't we just say: use the same style we use for python code, but all python statements should be indented with 4 spaces?
[04:31] <kiko> salgado, what about headings etc
[04:31] <kdefreak> hmm.... when running bzr push sftp://ryanakca@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ryanakca/kcypher/trunk , I get:
[04:31] <flacoste> there are also things to be said about the narrative style
[04:31] <salgado> well, that was just to answer ddaa's question about indentation
[04:31] <kdefreak> bzr: ERROR: Lock was broken while still open: LockDir(sftp://ryanakca@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eryanakca/kcypher/trunk/.bzr/branch/lock) - check storage consistency!            ... what do I do?
[04:32] <flacoste> i.e. Death to "Test this", "check that"...
[04:32] <BjornT> yeah, the document should talk about how to write doctests in general, not just code style in test examples.
[04:33] <BjornT> salgado: it's not clear that the code examples should be indented by 4 spaces, but i think that makes the most sense.
[04:33] <BjornT> it'd be good to check what the majority of our doctest uses, though.
[04:34] <BjornT> == Other business ==
[04:34] <BjornT> anything else?
[04:34] <matsubara> I have one BjornT 
[04:34] <flacoste> BjornT: many uses 4, many uses 2 and some use none
[04:34] <matsubara>  I'd like to ask that asserts in the code should always have a message with what is being asserted. It helps group oops together and I can see in a glace what's going on
[04:34] <salgado> BjornT, right, that's why I suggested we should explicitely say that
[04:34] <matsubara> Oopses like this one: https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2007-04-03/B166
[04:34] <flacoste> matsubara: we already check that
[04:34] <salgado> matsubara, that's already a requirement. see AssertionsInLaunchpad
[04:35] <matsubara> ah great
[04:35] <matsubara> thanks
[04:36] <matsubara> * Where it is totally obvious what the rationale is, the explanation string should be omited.
[04:37] <matsubara> well this part is the one I don't agree. having a explanation string helps group the oops together.
[04:37] <BjornT> i think it wouldn't hurt to always require an explanation message for this reason.
[04:38] <flacoste> i always require it
[04:38] <BjornT> kiko, SteveA: would it be ok to change AssertionsInLaunchpad to always require a rationale, to help grouping oops?
[04:38] <kiko> sure.
[04:38] <kiko> include the rationale
[04:40] <BjornT> ok, i'll change AssertionsInLaunchpad.
[04:40] <BjornT> meeting ended. thanks everyone!
[04:40] <kiko> enjoy
[04:41] <matsubara> thanks BjornT 
[04:41] <salgado> thanks BjornT 
[04:41] <flacoste> Thanks BjornT
[04:43] <SteveA> I saw some code fly past in a review
[04:43] <SteveA> something like
[04:43] <SteveA> assert permission == 'zope.Public'
[04:43] <SteveA> permission = checkerPublic
[04:44] <SteveA> any idea where I saw that?
[04:44] <flacoste> SteveA: that was kiko's suggestion
[04:44] <flacoste> to one of my branch
[04:44] <flacoste> i declined the suggestion and simply remove the possibility to configure the permission
[04:44] <flacoste> i always use CheckerPublic
[04:44] <kiko> I didn't know what I was talking about
[04:45] <SteveA> ok.  cos that's kind of a security risk
[04:45] <SteveA> in that if we ever run in -O mode
[04:45] <kiko> right
[04:45] <SteveA> (which oddly enough, the Zope 3 development people recommend :-/)
[04:45] <SteveA> and also have a more restrictive permission set
[04:45] <kiko> they must have access to a good dealer
[04:45] <SteveA> it will silently overwrite it
[04:45] <SteveA> the standard way to remove the ++debug++ namespace is to run with -O
[04:46] <SteveA> this means that most zope3 apps running in production are leaking their page template code
[06:00] <carlos> cheers
[07:27] <vittico> hi guys!
[07:27] <vittico> i wanted to ask just one simple question, is there anyway to make a local install of launchpad?
[07:28] <vittico> is there anyplace where i could download launchpad and run a local copy?
[07:28] <LaserJock> vittico: no
[07:29] <vittico> LaserJock, ok.. :) thanks! sooo in order to use i must first register
[07:29] <vittico> and use the online version
[07:29] <LaserJock> yep
[07:30] <LaserJock> simple questions, simple answers :-)
[07:30] <vittico> :) thanks
[07:39] <jenda> Hello
[07:40] <jenda> Why is my hackergotchi totally stretched? https://launchpad.net/~jenda
[07:40] <jenda> Is it because I'm not really a hacker? Should I report it as a bug?
[07:41] <jenda> (i know it wouldn't be if I resized the image to the size LP asks for, but it _should_ be able to keep it straight, shouldn't it?)
[07:41] <radix> New bug: jenda is not really a hacker
[07:42] <jenda> :)
[07:43] <LaserJock> jenda: I think there's already a bug report for that
[07:44] <jenda> Good...
[07:45] <jenda> kiko: damn, these canonical employees without cloaks... looks really bad ;)
[07:45] <jenda> And the idea of, for example, mneptok running around naked...
[07:48] <kiko> jenda, hey! am I the one blocking this from happening?
[07:50] <jenda> kiko: yes :)
[07:50] <kiko> jenda, don't say that!
[07:50] <jenda> kiko: all I need is one word from you and you have a cloak
[07:50] <kiko> jenda, one word
[07:50] <jenda> sweet :)
[07:50] <jenda> the format is canonical/*/primarynick
[07:51] <jenda> you can either leave it at canonical/kiko for everyone, or you can put more info in there.
[07:51] <kiko> jenda, I'd rather not everybody was marked as /kiko
[07:51] <jenda> hmm
[07:51] <kiko> I am a bit into myself but not that much
[07:51] <jenda> Well, i can manage that, i guess.
[07:52] <LaserJock> kiko: :-)
[07:52] <kiko> LaserJock!
[07:53] <jenda> kiko: basically, ... argh.
[07:54] <jenda> kiko: basically, you will need to ask a staffer to add every single cloak, and you'll have to decide if you want something between @canonical and /kiko
[07:54] <jenda> I am one such staffer ;)
[07:55] <kiko> okay, let me privmsg you
[08:16] <Rinchen> jenda, don't beat up kiko to badly. I need him fit for work later. ;-) 
[08:50] <bahadunn> howdy
[08:50] <bahadunn> I try to use my email server but I get errors about TLS
[08:50] <bahadunn> setting up TLS connection from adelie.ubuntu.com[82.211.81.139] 
[08:50] <bahadunn> SSL_accept:before/accept initialization
[08:50] <bahadunn> read from 080B6E38 [080C0528]  (11 bytes => -1 (0xFFFFFFFF))
[08:51] <bahadunn> SSL_accept:error in SSLv2/v3 read client hello A
[08:51] <bahadunn> initializing the server-side TLS engine
[08:51] <bahadunn> any ideas
[08:51] <bahadunn> ?
[08:51] <mdke> bahadunn: you might want another channel?
[08:51] <bahadunn> never seen that before
[08:51] <bahadunn> ah ok
[08:52] <bahadunn> I was led to believe there might be administrators here from the webpages
[08:52] <bahadunn> I guess not though
[08:52] <bahadunn> sorry for the mistake
[08:52] <mdke> what task are you trying to do?
[08:52] <bahadunn> trying to register
[08:52] <mdke> for Launchpad?
[08:52] <bahadunn> ill email the ubuntu launchpad admins
[08:52] <bahadunn> yeah
[08:53] <mdke> ah, then perhaps you are in the right place, I thought you wanted help for your email server
[08:53] <bahadunn> no
[08:53] <bahadunn> I want to know why my server will not accept the mail from the launchpad
[08:54] <bahadunn> I want to fix it if it is a problem on my side so I can get mail from launchpad
[08:54] <bahadunn> or report it so it can be fixed on launchpad's side if it is a problem on that end
[08:54] <mdke> I see
[08:54] <mdke> well, I don't know what is causing the error. hang around and see if anyone else does. If not you can try mailing the launchpad-users mailing list
[08:55] <bahadunn> ok
[08:55] <bahadunn> thanks
[09:15] <kiko> bahadunn, one option is joining #canonical-sysadmin and taking the matter up there
[09:16] <bahadunn> ok
[10:41] <ubotu> New bug: #102796 in rosetta "Template update request doesn't shows up in import queue" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102796
[10:56] <ubotu> New bug: #43545 in rosetta ""need review" items not shown" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/43545