[04:21] <Lure> @schedule ljubljana
[04:21] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council
[04:24] <zul> @schedule montreal
[04:24] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Apr 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 16:00: Forum Council
[04:49] <mdz> good afternoon
[04:50] <kwwii> hi mdz
[04:52] <mdz> cjwatson: here?
[04:52] <cjwatson> yes
[04:52] <dholbach> hiya
[04:54] <pitti> hi
[04:56] <Riddell> hi
[04:58] <mdz> 2 minutes, everyone here?
[05:01] <bdmurray> howdy
[05:02] <mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: everyone accounted for?
[05:02] <cjwatson> I think I have the list of people on holiday complete
[05:02] <mdz> thanks Riddell
[05:02] <Keybuk> mdz: accounting now
[05:02] <cjwatson> waiting for rtg
[05:02] <cjwatson> (already pinged)
[05:03] <Keybuk> mdz: not expecting iwj, he's off sick
[05:03] <cjwatson> asac: here?
[05:03] <asac> yes
[05:04] <cjwatson> ok, I was just about to say that this was one of your usual unavailable times, so you might not be :)
[05:04] <cjwatson> ok, everyone accounted for for me
[05:04] <mdz> Keybuk: likewise?
[05:05] <asac> cjwatson: i would apologize in that case ... was just confused because of @schedule :)
[05:05] <Keybuk> mdz: yup
[05:05] <mdz> ok, good, let's get started
[05:05] <mdz> some of you may have heard that we're releasing in two weeks :-)
[05:06] <cjwatson> EASY
[05:06] <mdz> Mithrandir's last email said we had 140 release-critical issues
[05:06] <pitti> and we don't even know the name of feisty+1 yet :(
[05:06] <mdz> but that was a week ago
[05:06] <mdz> pitti: I sit next to Mark now and will ask every day until that changes :-)
[05:06] <Keybuk> pitti: we're trying our hardest
[05:06] <mdz> won't be long now
[05:06] <cjwatson> I haven't done a bug count today yet
[05:06] <mdz> strike that, it said "about 140"
[05:07] <cjwatson> (give me two minutes)
[05:07] <mvo> I think we have ~90 milestoned currently
[05:07] <pitti> 113
[05:07] <seb128> what do you count release-critical?
[05:07] <seb128> anything using a 7.04 milestone?
[05:07] <Mithrandir> milestoned and in main+restricted
[05:07] <mdz> I count 131
[05:07] <seb128> I tend to use milestone with low importance for things I want to work on, that doesn't mean they are r-c
[05:07] <mdz> oh, I counted universe+multiverse
[05:08] <cjwatson> 131> ditto
[05:08] <pitti> weird, I see 113 milestone bugs; anyway, lots
[05:08] <mdz> this being our sixth release, it's about time we had an agreement about how release-critical issues are recorded
[05:08] <Mithrandir> so 109 now.
[05:08] <cjwatson> seb128: regardless, they all need to be unmilestoned or fixed before release
[05:08] <heno> note that some of these may be dupes of already fixed bugs such as bug 89070
[05:08] <ubotu> Malone bug 89070 in casper "Can't eject cdrom (dup-of: 84592)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89070
[05:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 84592 in casper "feisty shutdown eject doesn't" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84592
[05:09] <mdz> I think it makes most sense to reserve the ubuntu-7.04 milestone for truly critical issues
[05:09] <heno> I plan to look for more such cases
[05:09] <cjwatson> 131> that figure counts duplicates and bugs with multiple tasks
[05:09] <seb128> cjwatson: right, I already dropped some of the list but I still have a bunch of bugs I want to work on and that's the best way I've found to keep track of them
[05:09] <mdz> we can create a second milestone for things which we want to remember to look at, if that's needed
[05:09] <pitti> that should be 'in progress' state
[05:09] <Mithrandir> mdz: we have one (which is *cough*, part of edgy), later.
[05:09] <mdz> we're unlikely to fix all 109 of those bugs during freeze
[05:10] <pitti> seb128: why not assign to you/set in progress? that works very well for me and is more natural to the LP workflow
[05:10] <Mithrandir> heno: 89070 isn't on the list of RC bugs.
[05:10] <mdz> mvo: do you still have 25 targeted bugs?
[05:10] <seb128> well, I though r-c was > importance bugs
[05:10] <heno> Mithrandir: sorry
[05:10] <seb128> pitti: because I list them for desktop team and I'm not working on them, dholbach work on some also, etc
[05:10] <mvo> mdz: no, my count should be much less, around 5
[05:10] <Mithrandir> heno: don't use +milestone/ubuntu-7.04, use https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.milestone%3Alist=200&field.component=1&field.component=2&field.component-empty-marke
[05:11] <mdz> mvo: you have many marked fix committed
[05:11] <mdz> mvo: did you forget to change them to fix released?
[05:11] <seb128> pitti: that's a "would be nice to fix those desktop bugs" list and anybody is welcome to give a hand ;)
[05:11] <mvo> mdz: most likely I will go over them
[05:11] <mdz> Mithrandir: is there a link to that from UbuntuDevelopment?
[05:11] <mdz> mvo: we're very close
[05:11] <mdz> I spoke with kiko about it on Monday
[05:11] <Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think so, no.  I can put it on my list of things to do next week.
[05:12] <mdz> it is reportedly BjornT's next focus
[05:12] <mvo> mdz: cool! sorry, but my milestone search exclude fix-commited so I haven't noticed
[05:12] <mdz> and kiko has given him some code for the soyuz bit
[05:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: please do; that's a list all developers should be able to find easily
[05:12] <mdz> Keybuk: do you know what's happening with this critical evms bug?
[05:12] <Keybuk> mdz: there's a new one?
[05:13] <Keybuk> what #?
[05:13] <mdz> Keybuk: the one at the top of Mithrandir's url
[05:13] <mdz> bug 74317
[05:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 74317 in evms "race with devmapper" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74317
[05:13] <Keybuk> mdz: that's the first time I've seen that one
[05:13] <cjwatson> bug 63175 and bug 89069 are likely the same thing, but it's difficult
[05:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 63175 in e2fsprogs "Edgy Beta -- fsck on every (re)boot" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63175
[05:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 89069 in ubiquity "problem with time" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89069
[05:14] <Keybuk> and it is likely that wasabi is correct in the fix
[05:15] <mdz> cjwatson: it's not clear to me why that would change since warty
[05:15] <mdz> Keybuk: can you chase it up and fix it in ian's absence if necessary?
[05:16] <cjwatson> it doesn't surprise me that it changed around dapper/edgy due to certain internal installer changes
[05:16] <Keybuk> mdz: yup
[05:16] <mdz> mvo: bug 99171 is not a real bug, but it does need to get done
[05:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 99171 in update-manager "Reminder: disable "useDevelopmentRelease=True" before final release in CD self upgrader" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99171
[05:16] <mdz> mvo,Mithrandir: when is the right time to throw that switch?
[05:16] <mvo> mdz: after RC
[05:16] <mdz> mvo: surely before RC, no?
[05:17] <pitti> mvo: why would it hurt to do it earlier?
[05:17] <pitti> mvo: after all, there's no feisty+1 yet to upgrade to
[05:17] <mdz> (unfortunately)
[05:18] <mvo> after the last image that we consider "not-yet-released"
[05:18] <mvo> otherwise people will not get a updated dist-upgrader (if we issue one)
[05:18] <mvo> but we need to turn it off before final release
[05:18] <mdz> RC should have all of the trimmings for final; that's the point
[05:19] <mdz> version numbers and all
[05:19] <Mithrandir> mvo: you mean people who run the dist-upgrader from RC to final won't get the updated one?
[05:19] <mvo> Mithrandir: if we have a updated one on the net, then no. if we don't it does not matter
[05:19] <mdz> upgrading to RC should give the same experience as upgrading to final, so we can test the final process
[05:20] <Mithrandir> I agree with mdz, while we're updating langpacks after RC, I'd like to avoid changing code at all possible after RC is out.
[05:20] <Mithrandir> that's kinda the point of RC.
[05:20] <Riddell> cjwatson: the release notes URL link should be turned on in ubiquity?
[05:20] <cjwatson> Riddell: it already is
[05:20] <mvo> fair enough, then we need to turn it off before the weekend
[05:20] <mdz> mvo: would this be a good item to add to the checklists?
[05:21] <mdz> rather than filing a bug
[05:21] <cjwatson> Riddell: oh, argh, maybe it isn't, I'll check
[05:21] <mvo> mdz: good point! I used a bug because I wanted to be 100% certain that I don't forget it
[05:21] <Riddell> cjwatson: it's a file that needs putting on the CD as I remember, maybe Mithrandir knows
[05:21] <cjwatson> Riddell: no, it's my problem
[05:22] <cjwatson> it's supposed to have been on the CD for ages but apparently fell off due to a slight code bug
[05:22] <Riddell> cjwatson: where does it point to (for Kubuntu)?
[05:22] <cjwatson> -> #ubuntu-devel
[05:22] <Riddell> yep
[05:23] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[05:23] <mdz> cjwatson: is that on the checklist as well?
[05:24] <mdz> Mithrandir: have you given up on bug 45696?
[05:24] <ubotu> Malone bug 45696 in network-manager "NetworkManager can't find interface on resume from suspend" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45696
[05:24] <cjwatson> mdz: it's supposed to be on the CD throughout release, so no. it's just a bug.
[05:24] <mdz> Mithrandir: bug 58503 has a safe+sane-looking fix
[05:24] <ubotu> Malone bug 58503 in usplash "No response to keyboard input at prompt after ejecting CD-ROM" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58503
[05:25] <cjwatson> mdz: (updating the mapping table is on the checklist, but that's not what Riddell's talking about)
[05:25] <Mithrandir> mdz: 45696 has gone away by itself for me, I used to see it all the time, but no longer.
[05:26] <mdz> Keybuk: thoughts on bug 66637?
[05:26] <ubotu> Malone bug 66637 in util-linux "After running mkswap, swap space is discarded, system fails to hibernate (invalid swap signature)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66637
[05:26] <mdz> Mithrandir: it just happened to me today
[05:26] <mdz> so it's still around
[05:26] <mvo> Mithrandir: I have it here too
[05:26] <mdz> mvo: do you get the connection limit message?
[05:26] <Keybuk> mdz: isn't that the old "mkswap discards the previous UUID" bug?
[05:26] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[05:26] <bdmurray> I've seen that some recently too
[05:26] <Keybuk> mdz: I had a mostly finished patch for that
[05:26] <mdz> Keybuk: with 13 duplicates
[05:26] <mvo> mdz: I haven't checked
[05:27] <Keybuk> except we had new information that sometimes fsck changes the UUID too, so I was investigating that
[05:27] <Keybuk> but got side-tracked by the evms/md/lvm/devmapper stuff
[05:27] <Keybuk> it's next on my list to fix
[05:27] <mdz> ok
[05:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: 58503, I haven't looked at that lately, I've spent time on trying to fix NM to work beter.
[05:27] <Mithrandir> better, even.
[05:27] <mdz> BenC: how about the kernel bugs on that list?
[05:28] <mdz> Mithrandir: I have never seen that one, but it's fairly serious for folks who do (and can't be fixed in an update)
[05:28] <BenC> mdz: We're reviewing things
[05:29] <BenC> checking to see what we want to target for RC and release
[05:29] <mdz> cjwatson: bug 85612 -> agreed
[05:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 85612 in kde-systemsettings "Edgy/Kubuntu update broke access to display settings on 4 separate systems (dup-of: 38692)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85612
[05:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 38692 in kde-systemsettings "systemsettings doesn't load Display, Disk and Filesystems control module" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38692
[05:29] <mdz> er
[05:29] <Keybuk> mdz: that fix is inspired
[05:29] <mdz> bug 85162, that is
[05:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 85162 in localechooser "installer doesn't permit to set little countries" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85162
[05:29] <Keybuk> and really would explain why it doesn't work
[05:29] <cjwatson> yeah, too risky
[05:29] <BenC> mdz: At this point, I don't thing any of our bugs are real showstoppers, but we have some that would be worth fixing for release
[05:29] <mdz> Keybuk: which?
[05:30] <Keybuk> mdz: 58503 ... if the keyboard is in the wrong mode, that'd explain why previous attempts to debug have failed
[05:30] <mdz> BenC: worth fixing why?
[05:30] <Keybuk> we were assuming the keyboard was attached to the wrong VT/etc.
[05:30] <mdz> BenC: if they can be fixed via updates instead, it's time to start thinking about that
[05:30] <mdz> Keybuk: ah, right
[05:31] <mdz> seb128: what about the panel crash with 8972342 duplicates?
[05:31] <pitti> BenC: I think the nvidia vs. legacy one will hurt upgraders badly
[05:31] <BenC> mdz: The only patches I'm considering at this point have to be non-ABI changes, and pretty trivial (meaning we can review it and see that it will fix things, without a lot of testing)
[05:31] <seb128> mdz: I've just uploaded another gtk+2.0 fix 30 seconds ago, might fix it
[05:31] <heno> Mithrandir: can we fix bug 91868 ? it should be a trivial casper script change
[05:31] <doko> we're down to 98 RC reports, lets continue 4hours, and we're done =)
[05:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 91868 in casper "Magnifier does not start from accessibility menu due to incorrectly referenced file." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91868
[05:31] <BenC> pitti: That's still in progress, and I will have it before RC
[05:31] <seb128> mdz: another invalid read to icon code I've caught with valgrind
[05:31] <pitti> BenC: cool
[05:32] <Mithrandir> heno: yes.
[05:32] <mvo> BenC: rock!
[05:32] <heno> cool
[05:32] <mdz> kylem: bug 88219?
[05:32] <ubotu> Malone bug 88219 in lilo "lilo won't add the new kernel 2.6.20" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88219
[05:32] <mdz> seb128: so there's a fix on the way?
[05:32] <seb128> mdz: not easy to debug, we get ziliion of dups but nobody able to get a valgrind log of it crashing
[05:32] <mdz> seb128: oh, I thought you meant you had caught a log of it
[05:32] <seb128> mdz: I'm not sure that's "the fix", it stopped the incorrect read to icon code I was getting
[05:33] <seb128> mdz: right, not sure that's the only bug though
[05:33] <seb128> though I'm confident this one is good
[05:33] <mdz> asac: bug 89071 doesn't sound release-critical
[05:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 89071 in firefox "Can't allow sites for adding extensions" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89071
[05:33] <seb128> I'm running gnome-panel under valgrind for some hours and I've get no error on package installations, upgrades, etc
[05:33] <asac> mdz: yes we can untarget that
[05:34] <kylem> mdz, i'll have to look at it again. i thought i fixe dit.
[05:34] <mvo> seb128: have you tried theme changes as well?
[05:34] <asac> mdz: done
[05:34] <mvo> seb128: I got some crashes in synaptic from people changing themes during downloads
[05:34] <seb128> mvo: it's not happening on theme change, it's happening on upgrades
[05:34] <mvo> seb128: ok
[05:34] <seb128> mvo: might be a different one :/
[05:34] <mvo> seb128: yeah :/ joy!
[05:35] <mdz> mvo: do you have any fix committed bugs which *shouldn't* be fix released? (any pending uploads?)
[05:36] <mvo> mdz: I don't think so, I was careful to make sure that everything went in before the freeze today, but I will double check
[05:36] <tkamppeter> seb128, your non-optimized version for bug 91218 seems still not be a good workaround.
[05:36] <ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
[05:36] <mdz> Keybuk: bug 96777?
[05:36] <ubotu> Malone bug 96777 in upstart "ttyS0 not migrated properly on upgrades from edgy to feisty" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96777
[05:36] <mvo> mdz: some of the obvious ones I closed already
[05:36] <tkamppeter> someone has installed your package and got the same crash.
[05:36] <mdz> mvo: there are a bunch on the list; I'll reload
[05:37] <mdz> mvo: the update-manager bugs are really cluttering the list
[05:37] <Keybuk> mdz: err, I thought I uploaded that before I came here
[05:37] <seb128> tkamppeter: the change to build with -O0 on amd64 didn't work apparently, I'll have an another look
[05:37] <Keybuk> mdz: but I don't see it in the archive -- will look when I get home :)
[05:37] <mdz> Keybuk: last upstart was 11 mar
[05:37] <Keybuk> yeah, weird, there's a newer one
[05:38] <Keybuk> 0.3.8-2
[05:38] <Keybuk> but LP knows nothing
[05:38] <mdz> Mithrandir: re: bug 102105, LSB 3.1 was not a release goal
[05:38] <ubotu> Malone bug 102105 in lsb "Issues of Ubuntu's LSB compliance - Login shell startup" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102105
[05:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: have you been in contact with mdke regarding bug 103308?
[05:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: iirc, tkamppeter milestoned it.  And I think LSB is on crack there, since they can't mandate changes to what POSIX sh should support.
[05:39] <ubotu> Malone bug 103308 in ubuntu-docs "newtoubuntu documents has link to English version of user-guide rather than localised version" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103308
[05:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: oh, it was only reported 2 hours ago. urgh
[05:40] <Mithrandir> mdz: so, no, I haven't.  I'm on vacation. :-P
[05:40] <mdz> seems worthy of a freeze exception if the fix is simple
[05:40] <doko> mdz: the wording is "shall" in both cases
[05:40] <Keybuk> doko: what does that mean for LSB?
[05:40] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, so POSIX does not require -l and /etc/profile.d for sh?
[05:40] <Keybuk> shall implies required?
[05:40] <Keybuk> tkamppeter: right
[05:41] <mdz> doko: in 3.0 as well, you mean?
[05:41] <mdz> we passed the 3.0 validation tests at some point
[05:41] <doko> looking ...
[05:41] <tkamppeter> If "shall" would not require anything, why are such terms in the LSB?
[05:41] <cjwatson> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/sh.html <- POSIX sh
[05:41] <Mithrandir> and while I think that LSB support would be nice, LSB should not try to change behaviour of /bin/sh and similar interfaces.
[05:42] <mdz> doko: what were the two cases?
[05:42] <Mithrandir> and profile.d has been rejected from Debian policy multiple times.
[05:42] <mdz> that's all of the interesting high-priority milestoned bugs, at a glance
[05:42] <cjwatson> sounds like they got it into LSB by the back door
[05:43] <doko> mdz: "The shell shall support an additional option -l" and "The sh utility shall read and execute commands ..."
[05:43] <cjwatson> I think the swap formatting control thing in ubiquity should be done if at all possible
[05:43] <Keybuk> doko: so they're both required by the LSB?
[05:43] <cjwatson> just haven't quite had time yet
[05:43] <Keybuk> (note we're nowhere near LSB compliance according to the letter of the spec, so I don't think more non-compliance matters)
[05:43] <cjwatson> I'm doing bug 91868
[05:43] <ubotu> Malone bug 91868 in casper "Magnifier does not start from accessibility menu due to incorrectly referenced file." [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91868
[05:43] <heno> cjwatson: thanks
[05:44] <cjwatson> ok, pending agenda items?
[05:44] <cjwatson> there are only a couple
[05:44] <cjwatson> (ogra) Edubuntu is RC blocked on bug #100021 (or on removing NM from the Edubuntu seeds) at the moment.
[05:44] <ubotu> Malone bug 100021 in ltsp "[Feisty]  LTSP fails on multi-homed server due to network manager touching predefined static interfaces" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100021
[05:44] <Mithrandir> it doesn't seem like "shall" is defined in the LSB spec.
[05:44] <cjwatson> can somebody who knows n-m give advice or fixes as necessary?
[05:44] <mdz> ogra: how is it that this was only discovered 2 weeks before release?
[05:45] <Mithrandir> but they use shall and must.
[05:45] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: those are both "required" things, Englishishwise
[05:45] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, then the LSB spec is broken.
[05:45] <Keybuk> "should" is normally used in specs to mean "recommended"
[05:45] <Keybuk> and "may" for optional
[05:46] <pitti> ogra: not sure whether this is fixable ATM; n-m's very concept is 'one active device at a time' :(
[05:46] <doko> Keybuk: http://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_3.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/def.html so yes, it's must.
[05:46] <doko> mdz: 3.0 has the same wording
[05:47] <tkamppeter> Keybuk, if they are required, this bug needs to get fixed.
[05:47] <Keybuk> tkamppeter: *shrug* if it isn't part of their test suite, it's not that important
[05:47] <mdz> pitti: network-manager may not be appropriate for servers with multiple network interfaces
[05:47] <Keybuk> I'd argue that they're trying to change POSIX-defined interfaces there, so the LSB needs to be fixed
[05:47] <mdz> this is an odd situation because desktop packages get installed on edubuntu servers
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: right, neither for desktop machines with the same situation (mine, for example)
[05:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: I am adding a concept of "manual" devices devices to NM which it knows about and assumes that are always online (but doesn't touch)
[05:48] <mdz> pitti: on desktops, it's usually the right thing, and folks who are doing something funny can remove it :-)
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: right, I wasn't complaining
[05:48] <Mithrandir> so if you have interfaces which are on some kind of manual, NM won't touch them.
[05:48] <pitti> mdz: well, I'd correct it to 'on laptops it's the right thing', but anyway
[05:48] <mdz> but in this case, we know that it's not the right thing because we're installing a server
[05:48] <mdz> ogra: are you here?
[05:49] <tkamppeter> Keybuk, I think following the LSB wording and not only the test suite is important, as people who make distribution-independent packages, read the specs and do not analyse the source of the test suite.
[05:49] <pitti> but at this time I guess it's too late to install it on laptops only
[05:49] <mdz> it doesn't seem that ogra is here, so I suppose we'll move on
[05:49] <mdz> (pitti) Confirm decision about apport in final release.
[05:49] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: I think it's a bug, but not a release-critical one
[05:49] <Keybuk> tkamppeter: *shrug* nobody produces distribution-independent packages and nobody like that cares about the LSB
[05:49] <Keybuk> tkamppeter: for the first point, the LSB mandates RPM not DEB :p
[05:49] <mdz> pitti: the consensus seemed clear on the mailing list; what's the question?
[05:49] <cjwatson> Keybuk: (tkamppeter does, for printing)
[05:49] <pitti> mdz: right, just getting a bunch of 'ok' from folks like bdmurray who didn't report back on the ML
[05:50] <tkamppeter> Yes, that is true, cjwatson, perhaps I am the first user of the LSB?
[05:50] <mdz> pitti: you have the floor :-)
[05:50] <asac> pitti: you have my ok :)
[05:50] <pitti> bdmurray: are you fine with disabling crash reports by default, only keep it on the live CD?
[05:50] <pitti> and asac?
[05:51] <bdmurray> pitti: yes
[05:51] <pitti> ah, asac beat me to it
[05:51] <pitti> great, I'm done then, thanks
[05:51] <mdz> tkamppeter: you may be the first to rely on this feature and notice it...I assume you know the right people to talk to at FSG about this issue :-)
[05:51] <mdz> ok, that's the end of the agenda
[05:51] <mdz> friday and monday are holidays in the UK, so some of us may not be online much
[05:51] <doko> what about demoting libstdc++5 and ia32-libs?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> doko: please. :-)
[05:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: when are you back at work?
[05:52] <tkamppeter> Yes, I have already reported on the lsb-discuss mailing list of the Linux Foundation that there are these issues with sh.
[05:52] <pitti> demoting++
[05:52] <doko> ok, doing that
[05:52] <Riddell> any progress on having more people to admin NEW queue?
[05:52] <pitti> doko: i. e. you'll unseed this?
[05:52] <doko> pitti: yes
[05:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: Tuesday, but I'll look at IRC for freeze exceptions, etc at least daily.
[05:52] <pitti> doko: great, ping me, I'll care for the demotion
[05:52] <asac> doko: there are some that use upstream firefox ... though i don't care maybe they want it.
[05:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: who is your backup while you are away?
[05:53] <doko> asac: it's still available in universe
[05:53] <pitti> asac: they have to manually install it anyway
[05:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: AIUI, most of the distro team is away for Easter already, so nobody with the access rights is around.
[05:53] <pitti> asac: it would make a difference if we shipped it in -desktop, or on the CDs, but we don't
[05:54] <cjwatson> Riddell: there were four items in NEW last I looked
[05:54] <cjwatson> I'm not concerned
[05:54] <asac> doko: pitti fine
[05:54] <cjwatson> (I realise three of them are yours)
[05:54] <mdz> Mithrandir: that's going to put us in a bit of a crunch for RC, I think
[05:54] <pitti> yes, I spent a fair amount of time on source new last week
[05:54] <cjwatson> I am available although not on a much more regular basis than Mithrandir
[05:55] <mdz> RS/ES/LT/England/AU/DK/NO are mentioned as having holidays
[05:55] <Mithrandir> hm, not .de?
[05:55] <kwwii> and DE
[05:55] <seb128> I'll be around and reading mail every now and then if anything is required
[05:55] <mdz> kwwii,Mithrandir: not on the wiki
[05:55] <pitti> see the copious warthogs mails
[05:55] <seb128> FR as well
[05:55] <mdz> but it seems so, yes
[05:55] <doko> I'll be skiing, so not reading email
[05:55] <Mithrandir> seb128: you don't have access to lithium, do you?
[05:56] <seb128> Mithrandir: not that I know, no
[05:56] <seb128> Mithrandir: nop
[05:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: given that we still have bugs to fix, and that most folks won't be working until Tuesday, it seems unlikely that we'll be able to start building candidates on schedule, don't you think?
[05:56] <doko> Mithrandir: can I remove the milestone from bug 88486 ?
[05:56] <ubotu> Malone bug 88486 in openoffice.org "impress hangs when opening Canonical template presentation [regression from edgy] " [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88486
[05:56] <Mithrandir> doko: yes, I think that makes sense.
[05:57] <cjwatson> (rtg had to go due to battery)
[05:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'd like to see if we can compress it and evaluate on Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday whether we need to postpone it one day.
[05:58] <mdz> it sounds like there is a day's worth of bugs to fix, so wednesday would be the earliest to start
[05:58] <mdz> whereas the schedule calls for it to start Monday
[05:58] <seb128> mdz: GNOME 2.18.1 tarball will be rolled on monday and tuesday ...
[05:59] <seb128> tarballs
[05:59] <mdz> seb128: that's not ideal either
[05:59] <seb128> well, nothing we can change there
[06:00] <mdz> seb128: we could do them as -updates or selectively
[06:00] <seb128> mdz: I think that would be a mistake
[06:00] <seb128> we would drop one month of bug fix
[06:00] <mdz> seb128: we could delay the release
[06:01] <seb128> hum?
[06:01] <ogra> @schedule
[06:01] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00: Forum Council
[06:01] <cjwatson> mdz: ... you mean the release candidate?
[06:01] <seb128> mdz: there is 10 days between GNOME 2.18.1 and 7.04, you think that's not enough?
[06:02] <mdz> seb128: I count 9, and about 3 days of that are supposed to be RC testing :-)
[06:02] <cjwatson> can anyone reproduce bug 96958?
[06:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 96958 in ubiquity "[feisty]  Kubuntu timezone page broken" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96958
[06:02] <pitti> seb128: will there be any intrusive soname bumps and the like, anything that could screw and delay buildds/archive consistency?
[06:02] <mdz> cjwatson: I meant the release, but only half seriously
[06:02] <Riddell> cjwatson: I've only heard of it from heno on virtual box as I say
[06:02] <seb128> pitti: no, GNOME 2.18.1 is only bug fix, stable branch has still UI, string, API, ABI, etc freezes
[06:03] <mdz> seb128: I think we should try to avoid this conflict for feisty+1, it puts unnecessary pressure on you for packaging, and on all of us for CD testing
[06:03] <ogra> err, did you guys reschedule the meeting ? its supposed to start now, no ?
[06:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm fine with delaying the RC, but not release, I believe we can get a good release out
[06:03] <asac> ogra: schedule is wrong ... i almost fell for it as well.
[06:03] <seb128> ogra: 15UTC was 1 hour ago
[06:04] <heno> Riddell, cjwatson: virtual box is still a bit raw on graphics. Most likely the problem
[06:04] <Riddell> ogra: like last week it was rescheduled by an hour, poke Keybuk to tell fridge to update
[06:04] <ogra> seb128, my evo says 18:00 CEST
[06:04] <ogra> which is exactly now
[06:04] <Keybuk> Riddell: how do I tell fridge?
[06:04] <Keybuk> ogra: your evo is wrong
[06:04] <ogra> seb128, and the fridge seems to agree
[06:04] <seb128> ogra: Keybuk's mail said 15UTC
[06:04] <mdz> ogra: the distro team calendar is authoritative
[06:04] <Riddell> Keybuk: #ubuntu-marketing, fridge-devel@
[06:04] <dholbach> Keybuk: fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[06:04] <ogra> gah
[06:04] <pitti> mdz: that's even more wrong
[06:04] <Keybuk> ogra: I mailed you explictitly, with the reminder, with the fact the time was different in capitals
[06:04] <mdz> pitti: it's correct here
[06:04] <Keybuk> Riddell: well voluntold, could you let them know :)
[06:04] <pitti> mdz: it says 8 am for me
[06:05] <ogra> please keep the fridge updated ...
[06:05] <Riddell> nixternal: fancy editing fridge calendar?
[06:05] <cjwatson> please don't use the fridge for this
[06:05] <seb128> mdz: I'm confident GNOME 2.18.1 will be no problem, it's the same timing every time, but right, an extra week next time could be nice
[06:05] <nixternal> Riddell: sure!
[06:05] <cjwatson> -> distro team + ogra anyway. it's useful for others
[06:05] <mdz> seb128: yes, I know.  we've managed in the past and we will manage this time also
[06:05] <nixternal> meeting, date, time, agenda?
[06:05] <mdz> seb128: but I think it would be better to have a little more time
[06:05] <Riddell> nixternal: devel team meetings back an hour (UTC)
[06:05] <seb128> mdz: agreed
[06:05] <ogra> cjwatson, i use the fridge for all dates ... why must this one differ ?
[06:06] <cjwatson> ogra: if you're using a calendar which is consistently not updated for this meeting, you should use something else and deal ...
[06:06] <ogra> :/
[06:06] <cjwatson> it is clearly mailed out to everyone, and blaming the calendar isn't good
[06:06] <Keybuk> Til managed to turn up on time
[06:07] <Keybuk> +l
[06:07] <mdz> ogra: we don't even have the ability to change the fridge calendar; it's run by a different team and sometimes lags
[06:07] <mdz> (directly)
[06:07] <ogra> i know
[06:07] <Keybuk> and we change the times of this meeting, and whether they even happen, regularly
[06:08] <mdz> ok, we're over time
[06:08] <mdz> is there any other business for the meeting?
[06:08] <Keybuk> I could cc fridge-devel on the reminders the day before, but I suspect they'd get sick of that
[06:08] <ogra> but other teams manage it as well ... having a centralized calendar seems pointless if its not used
[06:08] <pitti> the distro team google calendar would be nice, if that wouldn't fail so hideously on time zones
[06:09] <mdz> quibbling about meeting times ->elsewhere
[06:09] <mdz> meeting adjourned
[06:09] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[06:09] <pitti> thanks everyone
[06:09] <mvo> thanks
[06:09] <pitti> and happy bug squashing
[06:09] <mdz> and enjoy your holidays!
[06:09] <kwwii> thanks all
[06:09] <nixternal> what day and time do you guys want the devel team meeting to be posted on the Fridge?
[06:09] <pitti> happy easter!
[06:09] <doko> bye
[06:09] <asac> thanks ... nice holidays everyone
[06:09] <ogra> grmbl,
[06:09] <ogra> yes i had other stuff
[06:09] <nixternal> I have the Fridge open and ready to add :)
[06:09] <ogra> :/
[06:09] <mdz> nixternal: it's moved back 1 hour due to DST
[06:09] <seb128> thanks
[06:09] <cjwatson> nixternal: alternates between 1500 UTC and 2000 UTC on Thursdays
[06:10] <nixternal> cjwatson: 1500 starting next Thursday then?
[06:10] <nixternal> or 2000?
[06:10] <Riddell> 20:00
[06:10] <cjwatson> well, it was 1500 today, which should be a clue ;-)
[06:10] <nixternal> rock on!
[06:10] <nixternal> cjwatson: gahah, damn I am sl o o o w
[06:10] <nixternal> ;P
[06:11] <nixternal> I am not a noob
[06:11] <nixternal> is there a dev team agenda wiki page?
[06:12] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DevelTeamMeeting2007XXXX for date
[06:12] <nixternal> rock on
[06:13] <ogra> mdz, so you didnt discuss bug 100021 ?
[06:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 100021 in ltsp "[Feisty]  LTSP fails on multi-homed server due to network manager touching predefined static interfaces" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100021
[06:15] <cjwatson> ogra: we tried, but you weren't there ... see scrollback/logs
[06:15] <ogra> yeah, just reading
[06:16] <nixternal> OK, I have the 12th (20:00) and the 19th (15:00) setup for you all
[06:16] <nixnoob1> so herd6 is cancelled?
[06:16] <cjwatson> nixternal: thanks
[06:16] <cjwatson> nixnoob1: yes
[06:16] <nixternal> no problem
[06:17] <cjwatson> (See ubuntu-devel-announce where this was announced)
[06:17] <nixnoob1> yea rt61 is supposed to work buti think wpa doesnt work
[06:17] <nixnoob1> i have rt61 also
[06:18] <nixnoob1> i cant even boot he beta live cd so i cant test it
[06:18] <nixnoob1> yes slimey
[06:34] <ogra> mdz, the bug is well known and i discussed it with Mithrandir various times before it was filesd as a bug ... thats why the report is only two weeks old, what was important from my POV was that it gets milestoned, which didnt happen even though i requested it
[06:35] <ogra> thats why i brought it up ...
[06:45] <cjwatson> the correct way to get a bug milestoned is not to request it, but just to do it
[06:46] <ogra> thats what i did
[06:46] <cjwatson> it can and will be unmilestoned if necessary
[06:46] <ogra> LP only sets a requested tag
[06:46] <ogra> and a release manager needs to approve
[06:46] <cjwatson> no, you used the wrong widget
[06:47] <cjwatson> actually, no, you appear to have used the right one, the "Milestone" combo box
[06:47] <cjwatson> that does not need release manager approval
[06:47] <ogra> hmm
[06:47] <cjwatson> you're thinking of the "target to release" thing, which should only be used for stable releases
[06:47] <ogra> but it doesnt show up on the milestone list
[06:48] <ogra> oh, it does now
[06:48] <ogra> it didnt this morning ...
[06:48] <ogra> then i'm all set ...