[12:57] <LaserJock> hmm
[12:57] <LaserJock> I just realized I was talking in -devel
[12:57] <LaserJock> oops
[12:57] <nixternal> heh
[12:57] <LaserJock> I thought I was here
[12:58] <nixternal> there you go thinking again
[12:58] <nixternal> man that is so dangerous
[12:58] <nixternal> ;p
[12:58] <LaserJock> bad habit
[12:58] <nixternal> haha, I know the feeling
[12:58] <nixternal> everytime I think, something gets destroyed
[12:58] <LaserJock> btw, edubuntu-docs got uploaded
[12:58] <LaserJock> I think it'll be the last for Feisty
[12:59] <nixternal> good job bro! you rocked that one out hardcore, and quickly I might add
[12:59] <LaserJock> unless I put translations back in
[01:00] <LaserJock> nixternal: we even got some screenshots, TCM, and 2nd CD stuff
[01:00] <nixternal> groovy
[01:04] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: So, is that like pre-nvu composer, or what?  (not familiar with seamonkey)
[01:05] <gnomefreak> its composer after nvu since its 1.1.1 )hasnt been out long 
[01:06] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Developed by who?
[01:06] <gnomefreak> mozilla
[01:06] <gnomefreak> person dont know
[01:09] <tonyyarusso> Hmm
[01:10] <tonyyarusso> Trying to figure out where in the bugfix progression it lies
[01:35] <LaserJock> ok, what exactly is last.fm supposed to do?
[01:36] <PhinnFort> LaserJock: find music that suits your taste
[01:36] <PhinnFort> and find friends with similar taste in music
[01:36] <PhinnFort> afaik
[01:37] <LaserJock> hmm, ok
[01:39] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: I'll have to look into that and make sure nobody's duplicating work
[01:41] <gnomefreak> k
[01:43] <gnomefreak> hmm why is it the patches i need cant be applied :(
[01:43] <gnomefreak> oh well lets see if it builds
[01:43] <gnomefreak> later
[01:43] <_MMA_> LaserJock: http://www.last.fm/group/Ubuntu+Studio I just use it to see what the guys are listening to.
[03:17] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:22] <chillywilly> bddebian: you liar
[03:23] <bddebian> About what?
[03:23] <chillywilly> ;P
[03:23] <chillywilly> nevermind
[03:23] <chillywilly> my channel numbers shifted and I thought this was #fsf ;P
[03:24] <bddebian> haha
[03:24] <chillywilly> my bad yo
[03:24] <bddebian> I can honestly say I have never been in FSF.  I have been in #gnu once or twice in my life
[03:25] <LaserJock> hmm, I haven't been in either
[03:26] <LaserJock> I can't imagine what I'd need there
[03:27] <LaserJock> and I'd probably get tarred and feathered anyway
[03:27] <bddebian> A good lecturing? :)
[03:28] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what would happen if I jumped in #fsf and said "Is this the place for Open Source"
[03:28] <bddebian> hehe
[03:29] <_MMA_> lol
[03:29] <crimsun> "chemists hate GPLv3 draft 2!"
[03:30] <LaserJock> heh
[03:32] <LaserJock> maybe, "I've heard Emacs OS is better than Windows, is that true?"
[03:33] <bddebian> Just tell them you use OSX, that should be enough :)
[03:36] <LaserJock> bddebian: oh, excellent
[03:37] <LaserJock> "I'm glad OS X uses Free software"
[03:47] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you do any upstream development?
[04:23] <bddebian> LaserJock: heh, you were serious, they only gave me another year :-)
[04:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah
[04:25] <LaserJock> Marks was like "boy, I don't know about this guy. I think I better only give him 1 year" ;-)
[04:26] <bddebian> fair enough
[04:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: I guess he's just doing 1 year renewals
[04:30] <LaserJock> that's going to be kind of a pain
[04:31] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
[04:32] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock 
[05:06] <Hobbsee> has anyone uploaded https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/bzr/+bug/92432 ?
[05:06] <ubotu> Malone bug 92432 in bzr "index.html contains mainly broken links" [Undecided,Needs info]  
[05:06] <Hobbsee> someone's marked it as fix released, and i suspect it hasnt been uploaded
[05:08] <Hobbsee> oh, it has been, nvm
[05:31] <joejaxx> nice
[05:32] <joejaxx> i just found out one reason selinux-policy-default is failing :)
[05:33] <jdong> because it saw apparmor in the same repositories?
[05:34] <bddebian> hah
[05:35] <joejaxx> jdong: i really do not want to start  selinux vs apprmor debate lol
[05:36] <joejaxx> a*
[05:37] <jdong> joejaxx: nor do I :D
[05:37] <jdong> VIM RULES!!!!!!
[05:37] <joejaxx> :)
[05:37] <bddebian> NANO!
[05:37] <joejaxx> LOL that is worst
[05:37] <joejaxx> worse*
[05:38] <bddebian> nano r0x j00
[05:40] <joejaxx> apparently selinux-policy-default is looking for setfiles in /usr/sbin
[05:41] <joejaxx> and setfiles is actuall
[05:41] <joejaxx> /sbin/setfiles
[05:41] <joejaxx> actually*
[05:42] <joejaxx> ajmitch: are you around?
[05:44] <joejaxx> the funny thing is in edgy setfiles is in /usr/sbin/ but in feisty it is in /sbin/
[05:45] <jdong> let's just make a symlink!
[05:45] <jdong> :D
[05:45] <joejaxx> lol
[05:46] <joejaxx> i do not think any selinux files have a ubuntu# version
[05:46] <joejaxx> i wonder if there is a debian-selinux channel
[05:47] <joejaxx> changelogs*
[05:49] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes
[05:50] <joejaxx> i wonder what the best way to go about this is
[05:53] <sacater> oooh
[05:53] <sacater> nano r0x mi wurld
[05:53] <sacater> :D
[05:53] <sacater> nano r0x mi w0rld
[05:53] <joejaxx> lol
[05:53] <tonyyarusso> nano has syntax highlighting - that was my cool discovery
[05:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: are you knowledgable with selinux specific packages?
[05:54] <sacater> dont laugh, its 4am, and im only on here cause i hacked my dads router restrictions, to keep me OFF at these times
[05:54] <joejaxx> or anyone else too :)
[05:54] <crimsun> joejaxx: no, andrew may be
[05:54] <joejaxx> yeah that is what i was thinking
[05:54] <joejaxx> i think he is sleep :)
[05:55] <crimsun> he's likely at work
[05:55] <jdong> sacater: you bad boy.
[05:55] <joejaxx> crimsun: oh ok
[05:55] <crimsun> being in .nz and all
[05:55] <sacater> jdong: :P
[05:56] <sacater> jdong: its easy, he is doing it on MAC, so i just change my MAC and the router sees my as any old user
[05:56] <jdong> sacater: you're awful :D
[05:56] <sacater> and he uses my new MAC
[05:56] <sacater> i just change again!
[05:56] <sacater> BORN FREE
[05:56] <sacater> more time to fix bugs!
[05:56] <coniferous> Haha.. Mac filtering. So useless.
[05:56] <sacater> which is the main reason im up :D
[05:57] <crimsun> joejaxx: either +11 or +12 UTC, don't remember precisely
[05:57] <jdong> coniferous: heh that is an understatement
[05:57] <jdong> coniferous: I wrote an automatic wayport AP hacker based on MAC identity theft
[05:57] <sacater> if anyone cares i am GMT, not sure what that is it UTC
[05:57] <crimsun> that is UTC.
[05:57] <sacater> in*
[05:57] <sacater> oh
[05:57] <sacater>  :D
[05:58] <sacater> then i am UTC+0
[05:58] <tonyyarusso> No, GMT does daylight savings, UTC does not, iirc.
[05:58] <tonyyarusso> might be wrong
[05:58] <sacater> think you are
[05:58] <coniferous> Jdong: Very cool. Wish i had the skill to do that. 
[05:58] <jdong> coniferous: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~jdong/barnacle/barnacle.dev/files
[05:58] <sacater> as i have done my daylight shift
[05:59] <jdong> coniferous: it defeats the pay-to-surf public hotspots by locating another user on the subnet and assuming his MAC and IP
[05:59] <coniferous> Jdong: Yeah, i just read the readme.. Brilliant! I'm holding on to this little gem. 
[05:59] <joejaxx> Lol
[05:59] <joejaxx> that is so wrong
[06:00] <coniferous> Ah, man. I need to get myself a real wireless card. Ndis wrapper just dosent do the job..
[06:00] <jdong> joejaxx: haha I've kinda shoved the moral side of it on the backburner :D
[06:01] <sacater> oh, great, in the time it takes me to say a few lines, ive given people ideas....
[06:05] <joejaxx> jdong: Lol
[06:12] <coniferous> So, i have a question about MOTUs, I don't mean to sound noobsih or anything, but i was kinda wondering how to contribute to ubuntu. I've been using debian for a while so i know the format of a debian package fairly well, am i wrong in assuming this channel is for the package maintainers?
[06:12] <tonyyarusso> coniferous: You're correct about that.
[06:13] <tonyyarusso> I don't know exactly how one becomes a MOTU, but becoming a maintainer for a particular package is pretty simple.
[06:13] <tonyyarusso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU has lots of info
[06:13] <coniferous> Oh, thats even in the topic.. thanks alot. I'll look that over. 
[06:13] <crimsun> you may wish to snoop https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment , too.
[06:14] <coniferous> i'll look at that too. thank you.
[06:20] <LaserJock> darn it
[06:21] <joejaxx> what is the Maintainer line once again?
[06:21] <joejaxx> for ubuntu modified packages?
[06:21] <bddebian> XSBC-Original-Maintainer, you mean?
[06:21] <bddebian> Or what we put in it?
[06:21] <joejaxx> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Development Team <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> ?
[06:21] <joejaxx> bddebian: yeah what we put
[06:21] <ScottK> joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
[06:22] <coniferous> Funny you should mention that, Drinking cider and working in a cisco router simulator here. 
[06:22] <coniferous> Mind you, i'm sure your having more fun then me..
[06:22] <joejaxx> thanks
[06:31] <bddebian> Well, looks like I expired from ubuntu-dev anyway
[06:32] <ScottK> bddebian: Kinda takes the pressure off a week before freeze though?
[06:35] <bddebian> Honestly without trying to sound like a whiny bitch, I'm a little bit offended
[06:36] <ScottK> Are you the first one to come up for renewal under the new policy?
[06:36] <joejaxx> bddebian: oh that is the motu team on launchpad
[06:37] <bddebian> I don't think so but I don't know < ScottK
[06:37] <Burgundavia> bddebian: likely a mere oversight
[06:38] <joejaxx> well that setfiles error was only one problem
[06:38] <Burgundavia> we really have no procedures in place for any sort of renewal yet
[06:38] <StevenK> I thought ubuntu-dev was going to be killed?
[06:38] <StevenK> And I thought the renewal procedure was to ask the techboard really nicely?
[06:39] <bddebian> StevenK: I'm not sure about u-d, I had thought that also
[06:39] <ScottK> Of course bddebian's no less screwed just because if it was a mistake.
[06:39] <crimsun> bddebian: it's intentional that you are no longer part of ubuntu-dev
[06:39] <crimsun> bddebian: see https://launchpad.net/~MOTU/+members
[06:39] <crimsun> MOTU is a member of ubuntu-dev, so your upload privileges are preserved.
[06:40] <bddebian> ScottK: I'm not saying that I'm screwed and I don't mean it to sound that way
[06:41] <ScottK> Ooops
[06:42] <ScottK> All I meant was intentional or not, the impact is not affected.
[06:42] <bddebian> np
[06:42] <crimsun> again, ~ubuntu-dev is deprecated in favour of ~MOTU
[06:43] <crimsun> you were reactivated in the correct group.
[06:43] <bddebian> crimsun: Understood thanks, that wasn't really what I meant
[06:44] <crimsun> oh, are you referring to the term length?
[06:45] <bddebian> I guess just a little of the overall process.  I realize that I'm no you or LaserJock, etc but I put a lot of my free time in to trying to help out where I can with just some blind e-mail telling me I'm expiring and to begging to the TB.
[06:46] <crimsun> the silliness of the "you or LaserJock" comment aside ;-), you and Jani are the first to go through the procedure IIRC
[06:47] <bddebian> Why is that a silly comment?  I realize that I'm not as intimately involved as you folks are.
[06:48] <ScottK> No, he's saying you are overboard with being self-deprecating.
[06:49] <bddebian> Well that's a personality quirk but it makes the comment no less valid
[06:51] <joejaxx> every motu gets upload rights?
[06:51] <bddebian> For Universe, yes
[06:51] <crimsun> hmm, there sure are a lot of Deactivated people
[06:51] <crimsun> (under ~MOTU)
[06:51] <joejaxx> oh ok
[06:53] <StevenK> crimsun: Including two Daniel Holbach's
[06:53] <Hobbsee> bddebian: LP never was into personalized email, much.
[06:53] <Hobbsee> bddebian: didnt you see the MOTU ML, which was where msot of the stuff went on?
[06:54] <bddebian> 13?  Yeah and why is dholbach de-actived, because he's a core-dev?
[06:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: looks like more selinux fun
[06:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: changing the path to setfiles fixed one problem
[06:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: now i am looking into the next :)
[06:55] <crimsun> bddebian: yes, he's in core-dev
[06:55] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Yes, most of them, though it's been hard to keep up lately with RL job :-(
[06:56] <Hobbsee> bddebian: same here
[06:57] <LaserJock> arggg
[06:58] <joejaxx> LaserJock: what is wrong? :\
[06:58] <LaserJock> I hate networking
[06:58] <LaserJock> I can't wpa_supplicant to work
[06:58] <crimsun> which wifi chipset?
[06:59] <LaserJock> I tried wpagui but it can't connect to wpa_supplicant
[06:59] <LaserJock> madwifi
[06:59] <LaserJock> a AR5212
[06:59] <crimsun> are you using madwifi or wext?
[07:00] <LaserJock> madwifi I think
[07:00] <crimsun> open, WEP, or WPA{,2} AP?
[07:01] <LaserJock> WPA
[07:01] <LaserJock> I went from open to WPA
[07:01] <ScottK> LaserJock: I have ARS5212 and it works in Feisty with linux-restricted-modules and network manager.
[07:02] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: I have madwifi and I use wap no problems
[07:02] <LaserJock> well, sure, network manager works
[07:02] <crimsun> err, wait, what?
[07:02] <LaserJock> I'm just trying to get rid of network-manager
[07:02] <crimsun> oh, so you're trying to use interfaces(5)?
[07:02] <ScottK> Oh.  OK.  It just worked for me, so I didn't mess with it further.
[07:02] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:03] <crimsun> ok, is your /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf configured correctly?
[07:03] <ajmitch> joejaxx: you wanted something?
[07:03] <LaserJock> well, I *think* so, there was a HOWTO on the forums and a wiki page
[07:03] <crimsun> LaserJock: also, pastebin your interfaces(5) stanza
[07:04] <LaserJock> but it doesn't look like it's working very well
[07:04] <joejaxx> ajmitch: ah yes
[07:04] <joejaxx> ajmitch: i figured out one part why selinux-policy-default does not install
[07:04] <joejaxx> ajmitch: in the makefile it references setfiles as being in /usr/sbin/setfiles
[07:05] <joejaxx> ajmitch: when in the newest policycoreutils it is in /sbin/setfiles
[07:05] <ajmitch> probably because you're using the wrong policy
[07:05] <ajmitch> and selinux-policy-default should be removed
[07:05] <LaserJock> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14143/
[07:05] <crimsun> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14144/
[07:06] <joejaxx> ajmitch: but is the makefile referencing /usr/sbin/setfiles still a problem?
[07:06] <LaserJock> geeze, that's completly different
[07:06] <ajmitch> joejaxx: just use selinux-policy-refpolicy-targeted
[07:06] <crimsun> LaserJock: kel & reinhard spent a while making it interfaces(5)-compliant
[07:07] <crimsun> this was back in breezy or dapper, don't remember
[07:07] <joejaxx> ajmitch: ok
[07:07] <ScottK> My query object cache is implemented and appears to be working, so I'm going to bed.  Good night all.
[07:08] <joejaxx> Goodnight ScottK 
[07:09] <joejaxx> looks like i need to manually relabel the files
[07:12] <Jucato> hm.. poking...
[07:15] <bddebian> Ah well, gnight gang
[07:16] <Jucato> bye bddebian
[07:17] <joejaxx> ajmitch: may i pm you?
[07:18] <joejaxx> Goodnight bddebian
[07:18] <LaserJock> crimsun: slightly better, but it won't connect, it just keeps trying
[07:21] <crimsun> LaserJock: can you sanitize and pastebin the foregrounded wpa_supplicant output?
[07:29] <sacater> anyone seen any bugs in xmms lately :(I
[07:30] <LaserJock> crimsun: yes, on sec
[07:33] <LaserJock> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14145/
[07:34] <LaserJock> crimsun: it was doing a lot of reconnects,  now it just sits there, so I'm assuming it's sort of working
[07:34] <LaserJock> but I get no network
[07:34] <ajmitch> joejaxx: if you need to
[07:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: does iwconfig show you're associated?
[07:36] <crimsun> (there's not enough output there to see)
[07:36] <sacater> hey, because it comes with source, i dont suppose anyone would like to help me make a debian install for sauerbraten http://sauerbraten.org , i would need a lot of hand-holding though
[07:37] <LaserJock> one sec, I have to turn off and on N-M between tests
[07:39] <sacater> LaserJock: was that to me?
[07:49] <LaserJock> sacater: no, it was for crimsun 
[07:51] <LaserJock> crimsun: so maybe my /etc/network/interfaces is messed up?
[07:53] <crimsun> LaserJock: you should definitely be using interfaces(5) syntax with wpa_supplicant
[07:54] <crimsun> but does iwconfig show association?
[07:56] <LaserJock> yes
[07:56] <LaserJock> iwconfig shows the same with wpa_supplicant as with n-m
[07:56] <LaserJock> it has my ssid, etc.
[08:00] <LaserJock> when I try to ping a computer on the same network I just get: connect: Network is unreachable
[08:06] <crimsun> LaserJock: well, do you have an IP [IPv4] ?
[08:07] <LaserJock> I assume so yes
[08:07] <LaserJock> or wait
[08:07] <crimsun> `ip a'
[08:09] <LaserJock> crimsun: nope, no IP
[08:09] <crimsun> right, that explains the error above
[08:10] <crimsun> now, which iface is that, ath0?
[08:10] <LaserJock> ath0
[08:10] <crimsun> does ``sudo dhclient ath0'' give you a lease?
[08:12] <LaserJock> crimsun: wahoo, success
[08:12] <LaserJock> I've never used dhclient, now I kinda feel like an idiot :/
[08:13] <jussi01> morning motu's
[08:13] <LaserJock> do you have to do dhclient everytime you want to get on the network?
[08:14] <crimsun> no
[08:14] <crimsun> I use the interfaces(5) format that I pastebinned
[08:14] <crimsun> wpa_supplicant does the magic for me
[08:14] <LaserJock> hmmm
[08:15] <crimsun> (see /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.modes.gz for more info)
[08:15] <LaserJock> well, I used yours
[08:16] <crimsun> hmm.
[08:16] <LaserJock> let me try something real quick
[08:16] <crimsun> I see that "Madwifi supports both the 'wext' and 'madwifi' driver backends. 'wext' is referred, however 'madwifi' may work better in some circumstances."
[08:16] <crimsun> (that's a typo for "preferred")
[08:18] <LaserJock> crimsun: sorry, I'm an idiot, I accidently didn't do s/eth0/ath0/ in one spot in interfaces
[08:18] <LaserJock> now ifdown ath0 and ifup ath0 work like magic
[08:19] <crimsun> excellent.
[08:19] <LaserJock> but I did have my wpa_supplicant and interfaces wrong
[08:19] <LaserJock> so thanks
[08:19] <crimsun> np
[08:20] <LaserJock> now I can be N-M free
[08:30] <LaserJoc1> phew, made it
[08:31] <joejaxx> :)
[08:31] <joejaxx> apt-get -o "Dir::State::Lists=$TARGET" -o "Dir::etc::sourcelist=$TARGET.list" -o "Dir::State::status=$TARGET.status" -o "Dir::Cache=cache" update
[08:31] <joejaxx> does anyone see anything i am missing in that command? :P
[08:32] <LaserJoc1> unfortunately, Feisty seems to not be going downhill for me in terms of hardware stuff
[08:32] <joejaxx> LaserJoc1: that is good :)
[08:32] <LaserJoc1> s/not//
[08:32] <LaserJoc1> sorry
[08:32] <joejaxx> oh
[08:32] <joejaxx>  :\
[08:32] <ivoks> LaserJoc1: what doesn't work?
[08:32] <LaserJoc1> resume/suspend seem to have gone south
[08:33] <LaserJoc1> and I just rebooted and it stalled on some hardware loading
[08:33] <LaserJoc1> took at least twice as long to reboot
[08:33] <ivoks> it stalled for me on setting up network
[08:34] <LaserJoc1> at this point I think Edgy was better, hardware wise, for me
[08:57] <poningru> packaging request: lives
[08:57] <poningru> http://lives.sourceforge.net/index.php?do=downloads&PHPSESSID=03f197f4c756f4f9d819707da616dc2f
[08:57] <poningru> err
[08:57] <poningru> doh on the phpsession id
[09:03] <poningru> whats the package request official method?
[09:07] <StevenK> poningru: Later. Like, after we've released Feisty.
[09:07] <poningru> buh?
[09:08] <poningru> I thought here was a decision made re: packaging requests
[09:08] <poningru> something along the lines of going through launchpad and tagging it as such
[09:09] <Hobbsee> there are.  it's documented on the ubuntu-motu ML 
[09:10] <poningru> pretty please link?
[09:16] <Hobbsee> lists.ubuntu.com
[09:21] <Q-FUNK> What would be the best way to catch a command's stderr and stdout to ensure that if that comand alone fails, the whole preinst won't fail?
[09:26] <poningru> ...
[09:26] <poningru> Hobbsee: can you just tell me what the official method is?
[09:28] <sacater> interesting statistic, but who has the most Karma in launchpad?
[09:28] <Hobbsee> guess if you didnt knwo the month...
[09:29] <Hobbsee> mmm okay.  *looks harder*
[09:30] <Fujitsu> sacater: Probably popey, as he does the support requests.
[09:30] <sacater> Fujitsu: ok, thank you :D
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Sorry, they're "Answers" these days, and get incredibly high amounts of karma.
[09:30] <sacater> im on 140 something
[09:30] <sacater> oooh
[09:30] <sacater> i need to do answers :D
[09:31] <Hobbsee> poningru: argh.  i cant seem to find it.
[09:31] <Hobbsee> (yet)
[09:31] <poningru> Hobbsee: I've been searching too
[09:31] <poningru> cant find it
[09:32] <poningru> its fracking 7MB
[09:32] <poningru> :(
[09:32] <sacater> Fujitsu: i cant find a popey launchpad page
[09:32] <poningru> and its opening in firefox :(
[09:33] <Fujitsu> alanpope, sacater.
[09:33] <Hobbsee> poningru: i wonder if it was in a meeting log instead
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Be warned, he has 116k karma.
[09:33] <poningru> :(
[09:34] <sacater> Fujitsu: :D
[09:34] <poningru> Hobbsee: found it
[09:34] <sacater> Fujitsu: ill see how he earned it
[09:35] <poningru> Hobbsee: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/5990
[09:36] <Hobbsee> poningru: ah, yep, that's it.
[09:36] <Hobbsee> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-March/001480.html yep
[09:36] <poningru> thanks I will be adding it to teh wiki's
[09:37] <sacater> Fujitsu: https://launchpad.net/~alanpope/+packages
[09:37] <sacater> Fujitsu: not a single package :D
[09:37] <Hobbsee> poningru: great :)
[09:38] <Hobbsee> poningru: clean it all up while your'e at it :P
[09:38] <poningru> :p
[09:39] <Hobbsee> poningru: it's already there, but a couple of links down
[09:39] <poningru> it is?
[09:39] <poningru> which wiki page?
[09:40] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
[09:40] <poningru> doh
[09:40] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[09:45] <Hobbsee> yeah
[09:45] <Hobbsee> it *all* needs a redo
[09:48] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: the UWN is also covering such things, so if want something in it, feel free to ping me
[09:49] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: good point
[09:55] <superm1> every time that a package is updated, what is the order that its debian scripts get called?  say you have package A with both a postinst and a config script
[09:55] <superm1> are they both called on the package update?
[09:57] <crimsun> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html#s-mscriptsinstact
[09:57] <sacater> is there anything i can do to increase boot speed?
[09:59] <superm1> crimsun, thx
[10:19] <Hobbsee> if i've got package a, and package b, which both have an identically named file, but are completely different, what should i do?
[10:20] <Hobbsee> should i use a conflicts for that, or something else?
[10:20] <geser> superm1: http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts shows the order of script execution as diagrams
[10:21] <geser> Hobbsee: should both package be installable?
[10:21] <geser> at the same time
[10:21] <Hobbsee> geser: it's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/basket/+bug/103476
[10:21] <ubotu> Malone bug 103476 in basket "[can-not-install]  file overwrite error" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:21] <Hobbsee> no reason why they shouldnt be
[10:23] <geser> then one of the both packages need to install this file with an other name
[10:26] <Hobbsee>         ( cd debian/gcpegg/usr/share/man/man1 ; \
[10:26] <Hobbsee>                 ln gcpegg.1.gz basket.1.gz ;\
[10:26] <Hobbsee>                 ln gcpegg.1.gz eggsh.1.gz ;\
[10:26] <Hobbsee>                 ln gcpegg.1.gz regtest.1.gz )
[10:28] <geser> please don't do it
[10:29] <Hobbsee> what happens?
[10:30] <geser> section 2 is for "System calls (functions provided by the kernel)" (see man man for the other sections)
[10:36] <Hobbsee> interesting
[10:40] <Hobbsee> oh?
[10:41] <sacater> Ive been told how to make boot time, and many other things extreamly fast, gentoo's done it
[10:41] <Fujitsu> My MDT cron jobs look there.
[10:41] <sacater> We need to change all bash to C/C++
[10:41] <sacater> faster than bash by far
[10:42] <Fujitsu> sacater: We don't use bash during bootup.
[10:42] <sacater> okl
[10:42] <sacater> let me relay that to my mate
[10:42] <sacater> actually hang on
[10:43] <welp> hmm?
[10:43] <sacater> welp
[10:43] <sacater> explain the bash thing
[10:43] <geser> Hobbsee: so rename basket.1.gz to something like gcpegg-basket.1.gz and make basket conflict gcpegg < fixed_version
[10:43] <welp> bash is slower than C
[10:43] <welp> generally RC is coded in bash, therefore init is relatively slow
[10:43] <sacater> welp: but Fujitsu says we dont use bash at bootup
[10:43] <sacater> @|
[10:43] <sacater> :|
[10:43] <welp> sacater: "generally"
[10:43] <welp> not always...
[10:43] <Fujitsu> We use dash.
[10:43] <welp> Fujitsu: what does ubuntu use for RC
[10:43] <Fujitsu> Which is substantially faster.
[10:43] <welp> dash? what's that?
[10:44] <geser> sacater: /bin/sh -> dash
[10:44] <sacater> oooh
[10:44] <welp> i've never heard of dash...
[10:44] <sacater> welp: C faster than sh
[10:44] <sacater> ?
[10:44] <welp> yes
[10:44] <sacater> ok
[10:44] <sacater> anybody got any idea how long it would take to replace all sh and bash with C
[10:44] <sacater> :P
[10:45] <Hobbsee> geser: right.  do i need to change anything else than the name of the manpage for gcpegg-basket.1.gz?
[10:45] <sacater> welp: thanks, 
[10:46] <Fujitsu> sacater: A few eternities.
[10:46] <welp> i can get through init (ie after kernel load -> login) in 2 seconds with a "warm boot"
[10:46] <sacater> Fujitsu: what welp said
[10:46] <sacater> ive seen his laptop
[10:46] <sacater> zzzzzooooooooooooommmmmmm
[10:46] <sacater> and its an old laptop too :
[10:46] <sacater> :D
[10:46] <welp> and that's my laptop... 700mhz, 386mb ram
[10:47] <sacater> Fujitsu: is it possible to do it bit by bit, and maintain a working system, eg. remove a piece of bash and replace with C, but remain working
[10:47] <geser> Hobbsee: what about the bin name? /usr/sbin/basket and /usr/bin/basket don't strictly conflict but having two executable with the same name but in different dirs doesn't sound good
[10:50] <sacater> gnomefreak: can you please tell welp the name of the guy who gave me +u
[10:50] <sacater> :D
[10:50] <Hobbsee> geser: exactly
[10:52] <sacater> welp: Fujitsu says eternity, is that true, if it is true how did gentoo manage it?
[10:53] <sacater> eser: exactly
[10:53] <welp> the guy who did it has "Uber" in his nick... really, he does
[10:53] <welp> :P
[10:53] <sacater> welp: oh him :D
[10:53] <sacater> welp: what one person did it...
[10:53] <welp> sacater: nod, one person.
[10:54] <welp> he also wrote the latest version of dhcpcd
[10:55] <sacater> wow...
[10:55] <sacater> uber he is..
[10:56] <sacater> Fujitsu: after hearing that are you sure it would take an eternity, fast boot would look great for ubuntu :D
[10:56] <sacater> and BE great
[10:56] <welp> but you don't want ubuntuians to have a ricer image, like us gentooians :P
[10:57] <crimsun> boot loader -> tty in 2 seconds can be done, but that's not our approach. boot loader -> gdm is.
[10:57] <sacater> hmm
[10:57] <crimsun> note that's significantly more complex.
[10:57] <sacater> i still think its a great idea
[10:57] <welp> crimsun: you can get the kernel loaded in <2 seconds?
[10:57] <crimsun> welp: I'm using your example.
[10:57] <sacater> welp: i keep telling people, neither is better, they are just different, gentoo is more difficult, and some people go for that, whilst other like user friendly
[10:58] <crimsun> anyhow, we're straying off-topic.
[10:58] <sacater> crf
[10:58] <sacater> crimsun: no way hose'
[10:58] <sacater> we are right on topic :D
[10:58] <sacater> oh
[10:58] <sacater> actually
[10:58] <sacater> maybe not :(
[10:58] <welp> hugday?
[10:58] <sacater> welp: dont laugh...
[10:59] <sacater> shall we continue this on another channel
[10:59] <sacater> ?
[10:59] <welp> that's the ubuntu equivilant to gentoo's bugdays, isn't it?
[10:59] <welp> (i'm talking about hugday atm(
[10:59] <welp> s/(/)
[10:59] <sacater> welp: no, its just a laugh really 'hug for a bud day
[10:59] <sacater> bug*
[11:00] <welp> so it's like gentoo's bugday.
[11:00] <sacater> we still love it :D
[11:00] <sacater> welp: yes, but they are more often than gentoo
[11:00] <sacater> about once every 2 weeks at least
[11:00] <welp> every fortnight
[11:00] <sacater> yes
[11:00] <sacater> i think we have an 'official' bugday in the year, but its mainly hug days
[11:01] <sacater> i havnt been doing linux that long though :(*
[11:01] <sacater> pochu!
[11:01] <pochu> hey sacater
[11:02] <welp> ever manage to get that laptop sold?
[11:02] <pochu> welp: not yet :(
[11:02] <sacater> welp: i still need 180
[11:02] <sacater> erm
[11:02] <welp> i'm still broke. :(
[11:02] <sacater> okay,...... pound sign makes a ?
[11:02] <sacater> 30
[11:03] <sacater> welp: what did you do to my xserver yesterday
[11:03] <sacater> ?
[11:03] <sacater> the other keys work
[11:03] <welp> sacater: i probably haven't got UTF-8 sorted on descartes
[11:03] <sacater> ah
[11:03] <sacater> thats it
[11:03] <sacater> yeh
[11:03] <sacater> works fine locally
[11:03] <welp> yeah
[11:03] <welp> Terminal on gentoo/freebsd hates utf-8 for some mucked up reason :(
[11:04] <sacater> meh, porting like that, theres bound to be a few conflicts :D
[11:05] <sacater> welp: how much ram does descartes have again?
[11:05] <welp> 2G
[11:14] <sacater> welp: hmm, well i know little C++ and smaller Bash, 
[11:14] <sacater> i wonder if i could get someone else to look into it
[11:14] <sacater> youre jabber is on the fritz again too
[11:14] <welp> i know
[11:15] <welp> not it's not
[11:15] <welp> *no it's not
[11:27] <mneptok> danger will robinson!
[11:40] <sacater> is there a way to clear out or 'flush' the ram cache
[11:40] <mneptok> gtk-gnutella she eez broken
[11:41] <sacater> mneptok: espanol?
[11:41] <zorglu_> sacater: "sync" will do, if what you want is to be sure the ram cache is written on disk
[11:42] <sacater> zorglu_: thanks
[11:42] <sacater> works :D
[11:42] <zorglu_> :)
[11:52] <BugMaN> hi
[01:23] <danohuiginn> Question: is xxx@ubuntustudio.com acceptable for a maintainer field in control?
[01:24] <danohuiginn> (debuild doesn't like it, but it seems reasonable to me)
[01:25] <azeem> what's the error message?
[01:26] <Hobbsee> danohuiginn: doubt it.
[01:26] <Hobbsee> needs to be a @ubuntu.com email address
[01:27] <geser> doesn't it only check for ubuntu in it? so it should be happy with @ubuntustudio.com
[01:27] <Fujitsu> That's acceptable, but the implementation of the policy is bad.
[01:29] <danohuiginn> azeem: actually now I look again, the only warning I get is about not having an original-maintainer field (dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field)
[01:29] <pochu> danohuiginn: create it with the Debian Maitainer
[01:30] <danohuiginn> pochu: yep, that makes sense. thanks
[01:31] <geser> danohuiginn: only it it has a Debian maintainer
[01:31] <geser> if it's a new package you're packaging for UbuntuStudio I'd ignore the warning
[01:33] <danohuiginn> nah, it's been in debian in the past. I'll add in the field
[01:33] <StevenK> That's a good question.
[01:34] <StevenK> Hobbsee: You whip them, I'll wave the grindstone
[01:35] <Hobbsee> StevenK: heh
[01:36] <danohuiginn> not a new package, Hobbsee, put away the whip ;)
[01:37] <Hobbsee> danohuiginn: even an update.
[01:38] <danohuiginn> Hobbsee: bug 103507
[01:38] <ubotu> Malone bug 103507 in om "Script 'launchomsynth' brings up two instances of om_gtk" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103507
[01:39] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:50] <enyc> Bah! feisty universe "qemu" 0.8.2+dfsg-0ubuntu1 does not work with the feisty "kqemu-source" built on 2.6.20-14-generic on i386 .. ;-( -- "Version mismatch between kqemu module and qemu (00010300 00010200) - disabling kqemu use"
[01:51] <enyc> The odd thing is -- kqemu is now GPLv2 license... but the kqemu-source package is in "multiverse" rather than "universe"
[01:51] <enyc> I'm confused
[01:52] <Fujitsu> enyc: Is this the new kqemu from about 24 hours ago?
[01:53] <\sh> moins
[01:53] <Fujitsu> Hi \sh.
[01:53] <enyc> Fujitsu: not sure...
[01:53] <enyc> Fujitsu: its 1.3.0-pre11
[01:54] <enyc> Note that debian "kqemu-source" is no longer "non-free" in 1.3.0-pre11  but ubuntu's "kqemu-source" is still in multiverse
[01:54] <Fujitsu> enyc: That's the new one, and it should be moved to universe when pitti gets around to it.
[01:54] <Fujitsu> (I filed the bug, he was just waiting on it to build and stuff)
[01:55] <enyc> Fujitsu: okay... excellent ;-)
[01:55] <enyc> Fujitsu: bug # ?
[01:55] <zorglu_> enyc: how come ? kqemu has changed its license ?
[01:55] <enyc> zorglu_: it has...
[01:55] <enyc> zorglu_: author has... not sure why
[01:55] <Fujitsu> zorglu_: Yep, GPL now.
[01:55] <enyc> zorglu_: gone to GPLv2
[01:55] <enyc> zorglu_: http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/kqemu-changelog.html
[01:55] <zorglu_> cool :)
[01:56] <enyc> however... there is a realy usability problem in feisty given that  feisty qemu and feisty kqemu-source  do not appear to work together
[01:56] <zorglu_> my guess is "all the new virutalization stuff made him do the work needed to pass it gpl" :) he talked several time about this
[01:56] <zorglu_> in anycase this is cool :)
[01:56] <\sh> moins Fujitsu
[01:57] <\sh> oh a new experience...umts while travelling in a car
[01:57] <Fujitsu> enyc: Bug 83539 and bug 102244.
[01:57] <ubotu> Malone bug 83539 in kqemu "Update to GPL'ed version 1.3.0pre11" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83539
[01:57] <enyc> ?umts??
[01:57] <ubotu> Malone bug 102244 in kqemu "Please sync kqemu (multiverse) 1.3.0~pre11-4 from Debian Sid (main), and promote it to universe" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102244
[01:58] <\sh> enyc: mobile internet connection up to 2mbit (not wlan)
[01:59] <StevenK> Oh yes, UMTS is GPRS on steriods.
[01:59] <\sh> right ;)
[01:59] <geser> enyc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umts
[02:07] <enyc> bah! I was doing someting silly... I had an older /usr/local/bin/qemu I had compiled in the past!!!
[02:07] <enyc> error in enyc!
[02:08] <enyc> qemu-0.9.0-1 from debian experimental works fine...
[02:08] <enyc> must test fiesty 0.8.2-whatnot
[02:08] <StevenK> Heh
[02:16] <enyc> This is my 'testing' machine so I don't mind breaking it... I have done something potentially dangerous... made /dev/sda accessible to my qemu... and booted qemu in 'snapshot mode' off the running hard disk.. I recognize the virtualized machine may not acutally write to the real hdd.. and it may easily crash when accessing the same mounted filesystems due to real-changes in the host machine ;-)
[02:17] <enyc> but it is, actally, working ;-)
[02:17] <jdong> mounting a live filesystem again actually does work
[02:17] <jdong> but either (1) it'll kernel-panic from unexpected changes, once in a while
[02:17] <jdong> or (2) The next mount, or next time you run fsck, you won't be happy.
[02:17] <enyc> heh
[02:18] <enyc> note that this is running a vm in snapshot modes... i.e. it keeps changes to itself... not affecting the real FS
[02:18] <jdong> enyc: how can you be so sure it's not writing to a filesystem?
[02:18] <enyc> but it will still get confused due to 'upstream' changes ;-)
[02:18] <jdong> You know, ext3 replays journals even on read-only mount....
[02:18] <enyc> jdong: well nothign is for certain... using qemu -snapshot mode
[02:19] <enyc> jdong: i.e. qemu is keeping changes in ram/tempfile of  block data changes.. not changing real device
[02:19] <jdong> lol I'm glad it works for you, but it's definitely not something that I would say will work _reliably_ :)
[02:19] <enyc> ;-)
[02:22] <enyc> jdong: thats interesting.... given that i now have /dev/sda  mode '664' (readonly blockdevice to my user running qemu)... I can boot DOS from the running hdd ... and it 'ignores' writes to the disk.. you can DEL a file.. and its still there.. qemu must not be passing up the errors at INT 13 level....
[02:23] <enyc> whereas if I boot in -snapshot mode, it does indeed show the files deleted correctly... as qemu is caching changes inside that running qemu session... restart and  back to square-1 etc.
[02:23] <jdong> enyc: ha, that's interesting. Now, after witnessing that behavior, think it's time to stop trying that reckless approach? :D
[02:23] <enyc> jdong: dont quire understand what you trying to say?
[02:25] <jdong> enyc: it's probably not a great idea (ok, fine, it's reckless) to use a block device twice like this
[02:25] <jdong> enyc: find a safer way :)
[02:25] <enyc> jdong: i do understand this..
[02:26] <enyc> jdong: i do appreciate that 'normal' filesystems are not designed for simultaneous mounts where any "r/w" mounts exist....
[02:26] <jdong> right.
[02:27] <jdong> but I'm not gonna stop you from having fun :D
[02:27] <enyc> jdong: i.e. many R/O are okay... but r/w+r/o or multiple-r/w  is bad
[02:27] <jdong> I've done really reckless things like this in the past before.... but anyway, it's fun and you should try it :)
[02:27] <enyc> there are fileystems designed for such thigns however but that gets more complex ;-)
[02:27] <jdong> just be sure you're not putting any valuable data at stake
[02:30] <enyc> hrrm.. KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
[02:49] <enyc> oops.. NTLDR is missint ;-)
[02:49] <enyc> no matter ;-)
[02:49] <enyc> all sorted now ;-) (closes qemu)
[03:26] <sacater> guys, as some of you know, i compiled xfce onto ubuntu, but im getting updates for it :| whats going on, can it handle source now?
[03:27] <Hobbsee> uh, what?
[03:27] <pochu> hey motus! I have a little problem while packaging a new version of listen. When I do "dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot", it fails with "/usr/bin/fakeroot: 152: debian/rules: Permission denied". Any idea? :)
[03:27] <Hobbsee> pochu: yep.  chmod +x debian/rules
[03:27] <StevenK> pochu: debian/rules needs to be executable
[03:28] <pochu> oh, cool :)
[03:28] <pochu> thanks Hobbsee and StevenK :)
[03:28] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:28] <Hobbsee> sacater: likely someone in ubuntu uploaded later versions of xfce than the ones you compiled.
[03:28] <sacater> Hobbsee: weird i know, i just checked with synaptic, and while xfce4 isnt ticked, some of the librays are
[03:28] <sacater> Hobbsee: nope, im using xfce4.4
[03:29] <Hobbsee> not a new upstream version - a new ubuntu revision
[03:29] <sacater> hmm
[03:29] <sacater> but if i compiled from source, how come synaptic dedtects it
[03:30] <Hobbsee> depends which source you compiled it from / how you compiled it
[03:32] <StevenK> If you bumped the version when you did so.
[03:33] <sacater> Hobbsee: i compiled the source packages i obtained from xfce.org
[03:34] <sacater> pretty official
[03:34] <sacater> :D
[03:39] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[04:00] <jekil> hello
[04:00] <pochu> hi jekil
[04:03] <sacater> guys
[04:03] <sacater> ive been helping a newbie
[04:03] <sacater> but there may be a glitch in the ahavi/2
[04:03] <sacater> whoops
[04:03] <sacater> sorry
[04:03] <sacater> avahi-daemon
[04:04] <sacater> his wireless refuses to work
[04:04] <sacater> the output of 2 commands i gave him are here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14190/
[04:06] <geser> which interface are there?
[04:07] <geser> which interfaces are configure in /etc/network/interfaces?
[04:14] <joejaxx> Good Morning MOTU :)
[04:15] <pochu> hey joejaxx :)
[04:15] <joejaxx> :)
[04:22] <joejaxx> pochu: wmfishtime and bubblefishymon are some funny dock apps
[04:28] <sacater> geser: the guy cant get his wifi0 to work, the errors are conclusive, look http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14190/
[04:36] <geser> sacater: I see there 4 interfaces mentioned: eth1, eth2, wlan0 and wifi0
[04:36] <geser> which one is the real one?
[04:37] <lupine_85> wlan0
[04:37] <sacater> ERM
[04:37] <sacater> hold on..
[04:37] <lupine_85> wifi0 would be the control interface (that you feed to wlandev)
[04:37] <lupine_85> I think :)
[04:38] <sacater> this is his full ifconfig http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14193/
[04:38] <sacater> hes coming anywa
[04:39] <lupine_85> eh, ath0 then
[04:39] <rouzic_> Hi everybody
[04:39] <sacater> lupine_85: talk to rouzic_ 
[04:39] <sacater> hes the one with dodgy wifi
[04:39] <rouzic_> Hi lupine_85
[04:39] <lupine_85> ath0 is the device that needs configuring :)
[04:39] <lupine_85> ath0:avah is.. umm. No idea, but the IP address it's got suggests zeroconf or something (so it can be ignored)
[04:40] <geser> I'd guess it got truncated as should be ath0:ahavi
[04:40] <rouzic_> This problem I have it since I updated avahi-daemon
[04:40] <sacater> lupine_85: did you see the output of my getting him to restart his networking in init.d
[04:41] <sacater> this is the bug in question https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/103440
[04:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 103440 in Ubuntu "[feisty beta]  boot takes much too long" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[04:41] <lupine_85> I did now
[04:41] <lupine_85> wifi0 is not the device to be playing with :)
[04:42] <sacater> ath0?
[04:42] <rouzic_> sacater: wifi :)
[04:42] <rouzic_> atheros
[04:43] <sacater> ath0 then.....
[04:43] <sacater> lupine_85: do you know the command that will kill of ath0, at least until its wanted again
[04:45] <sacater> ifconfig ath0 down?
[04:45] <sacater> but it needs to be turned off permenantly
[04:46] <lupine_85> unload the module
[04:47] <sacater> lupine_85: erm, ok, any idea what the module name is?
[04:49] <lupine_85> no, sorry. just lsmod and see which modules are using the 80211 module; though it should be pretty obvious from teh name anyway
[04:49] <lupine_85> you'll need to ifconfig ath0 down before you can unload the module, of cours
[04:49] <sacater> lupine_85: can i unload him onto you :P, this is where my knowledge gets limited
[04:50] <lupine_85> eh, if somweone pastebins the output of lsmod, I might be able to point it out
[04:50] <lupine_85> but I've never actually used an atheros card under ubuntu ;)
[04:51] <sacater> rouzic_: please paste the output of 'lsmod'
[04:51] <rouzic_> sacater: oks, wait a moment
[04:51] <sacater> talk to lupine_85 a bit more now, because he knows more,
[04:51] <rouzic_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14198/
[04:52] <DarkSun88> Hi.
[04:52] <sacater> DarkSun88: ello!
[04:53] <StevenK> ath_pci
[04:53] <lupine_85> curses, beat me to it :p
[04:54] <lupine_85> yeah, ath_pci is the one
[04:55] <sacater> lupine_85: care to join me :D
[04:55] <lupine_85> Hobbsee: you can dominate whatever's left :)
[04:55] <jussi01> hello Hobbsee 
[04:55] <StevenK> Which isn't the world.
[04:55] <lupine_85> I'm no very good at destruction, so it probably will be
[04:55] <lupine_85> not*
[04:55] <sacater> Hobbsee: you will domintae with THE STICK!
[04:56] <StevenK> It seems the point fell off.
[04:56] <sacater> hee
[04:56] <sacater> tm
[04:56] <jussi01> lol
[04:58] <sacater> rouzic_: how is it going
[04:58] <Hobbsee> heh.  you cant.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> it's my stick.
[04:58] <sacater> er hem
[04:58] <rouzic_> sacater: erh?
[04:58] <jussi01> ouch sacater why?
[04:58] <sacater> :P
[04:58] <sacater> rouzic_: did lupine_85 not help?
[04:59] <rouzic_> sacater: yes
[04:59] <lupine_85> don't negative me
[04:59] <lupine_85> :p
[04:59] <rouzic_> But the problem of the take-off has not been solved
[04:59] <jussi01> lol
[04:59] <lupine_85> I answered all the questions asked
[04:59] <sacater> help the padawan!
[05:00] <lupine_85> 1. make sure ath0 is all set up with iwconfig 
[05:00] <lupine_85> 2. sudo dhclient ath0
[05:00] <lupine_85> 3. ???
[05:00] <lupine_85> 4. PROFIT :D
[05:01] <rouzic_> Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client V3.0.4
[05:01] <rouzic_> Copyright 2004-2006 Internet Systems Consortium.
[05:01] <rouzic_> All rights reserved.
[05:01] <rouzic_> For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/sw/dhcp/
[05:01] <rouzic_> wifi0: unknown hardware address type 801
[05:01] <lupine_85> !pastebin
[05:01] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[05:01] <rouzic_> wifi0: unknown hardware address type 801
[05:01] <rouzic_> Listening on LPF/ath0/00:16:cb:bd:34:3e
[05:01] <rouzic_> Sending on   LPF/ath0/00:16:cb:bd:34:3e
[05:01] <rouzic_> Sending on   Socket/fallback
[05:01] <rouzic_> DHCPDISCOVER on ath0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 7
[05:01] <rouzic_> DHCPDISCOVER on ath0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 13
[05:01] <rouzic_> ups, sorry :s
[05:02] <lupine_85> but step 1 needs completing first
[05:02] <lupine_85> (which is mostly to do with associating to the AP)
[05:02] <rouzic_> sorry lupine_85
[05:02] <rouzic_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14203/
[05:03] <lupine_85> yep, no dhcp offers because the DHCP server isn't reachable (because you're not associated to the AP)
[05:03] <lupine_85> Umm. isn't networkmanager meant to do all the grunt work these days?
[05:03] <sacater> rouzic_: im gonna leave you in the 'capable' hands of lupine :P
[05:04] <sacater> rouzic_: byeee
[05:04] <rmjb> hey guys
[05:04] <rouzic_> bye sacater
[05:16] <rmjb_> hi guys, i want to fix a bug in dmraid before feisty, bug #102973
[05:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 102973 in dmraid "dmraid looking for raid45 when kernel uses raid456" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102973
[05:17] <rmjb_> I can just patch the source where it asks for kernel module raid45 and change it to raid456 and everything will be peachy?
[05:17] <sacater> rmjb_: no more bug fixes are being accepted for fesity , unless they are crucial
[05:18] <rmjb_> this one is, people updating from edgy, using raid5 on their onboard raid will not be able to access their disk
[05:18] <sacater> youll need to fix it for the next edition, but i dont know what its gonig to be called
[05:18] <geser> sacater: that's main
[05:18] <sacater> oooh
[05:18] <geser> universe is still open till April 12th
[06:20] <jekil> slomo: hello
[06:26] <jekil> slomo: i am searching a mentor, are you available?
[06:38] <rmjb> in the changelog, urgency is usually set to low, what happens if I set one to high?
[06:43] <geser> afaik it's ignored in Ubuntu
[06:45] <rmjb> oh... was hoping it would help get my update in sooner
[06:47] <rmjb> ... because it's an important update
[07:00] <ScottK> rmjb: Make a debdiff for the version with the fix and attach that as a patch to the bug.  Then subscribe Ubuntu-Unverse-Sponsors to the bug.  If you are in a big hurry, come here and ask someone in UUS to look at it.  That's how you get it done quickly.
[07:02] <rouzic_> lupine_85:
[07:03] <rouzic_> Already there is solution to the bug?
[07:09] <rmjb> ScottK: thanks, I want the bug reporter to test the package first though... I just hope they respond quickly
[07:09] <ScottK> Sure.  Makes sense.  Just wanted to make sure you knew the "quick" process.  Urgency has nothing to do with it.
[07:55] <gnomefreak> sacater: hint if vlc needs framebuffer than it will use your xorg.conf
[07:56] <sacater> gnomefreak: but thats one problem, another is that i cant launch gui apps within a root terminal
[07:56] <sacater> what is going on
[07:56] <gnomefreak> sacater: gui apps will use your xorg.conf no matter how you launch them
[07:56] <sacater> i upgraded to feisty and now its baaaad
[07:56] <gnomefreak> sacater: not all drivers need fb.
[07:57] <gnomefreak> sacater: geforce4 card?
[07:57] <sacater> gnomefreak: let me check
[07:57] <sacater> gnomefreak: shall i paste my xorg.conf to you?
[07:57] <sacater> or ubuntu paste
[07:57] <gnomefreak> sacater: no just need to know what geforce version your card is. is it nvidia?
[07:58] <sacater> http://rafb.net/p/KWj6v357.html] 
[07:59] <gnomefreak> lspci -v will give you the output you need just look at it tell me what it says geforce *
[07:59] <sacater> gnomefreak yes
[07:59] <gnomefreak> sacater: use the nvidia-glx-legacy drivers
[07:59] <sacater> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV44A [GeForce 6200]  (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA] )
[07:59] <gnomefreak> and i dont think fb will work with the legacy drivers
[07:59] <gnomefreak> no
[07:59] <sacater> gnomefreak: i tried legacy, and my screen went dark
[08:00] <gnomefreak> thats not a geforce4 card and that is one of the problem cards iirc
[08:00] <sacater> what can i do...
[08:00] <gnomefreak> sacater: you need the nvidia-glx package but the 6xxx and 7xxx cards seem to be a pain to set up
[08:00] <gnomefreak> sacater: that i dont know, ask in #ubuntu+1 maybe someone else knows
[08:01] <sacater> gnomefreak: hmm, that is a right PITA
[08:23] <micahcowan> nrg88: Most debian packages have a "debian/patches" directory, does kubuntu-default-settings?
[08:24] <nrg88> it has a debian directory inside alright
[08:24] <nrg88> but no patches there
[08:26] <micahcowan> Oh, wait: that probably doesn't apply to kubuntu-default-settings... I'ma download it so I can check it out
[08:26] <micahcowan> Debian packages that /do/ have a patches directory, generally want you to make your changes in there: the idea is to leave the unpacked tarball totally pristine, except for debian/, isolating all changes into there.
[08:27] <micahcowan> Usually, this means using dpatch-edit-patch, but there are various different methods for using patches :/
[08:27] <micahcowan> Obviously, in cases that are Debian/Ubuntu-specific, this does not apply (no true original tarball)
[08:28] <micahcowan> That would probably apply to this package.
[08:29] <micahcowan> Once you've made the changes you desire, you need to first be sure to update debian/changelog. You can do this using a special tool, whose name has just escaped me (and I actually need to use it myself, right now, as I too am preparing a debdiff).
[08:30] <nrg88> i'll be right back... 10-15 minutes i guess
[08:31] <nrg88> sorry to leave you here, but my mother needs some help :|
[08:31] <micahcowan> :)
[08:31] <rouzic> GoodBye!!! :)
[08:31] <show_now_on> i get a message like this  [W: Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/d/drivel_2.0.2-Subuntu1_i386.deb]  when i tried to fetch this package
[08:31] <micahcowan> What's the name of the tool to add an entry to the debian/changelogs?
[08:32] <jekil> dch
[08:32] <micahcowan> jekil, thanks very much
[08:33] <show_now_on> if anyone can help...i would be greatly appreaciative
[08:35] <jekil> show_now_on: simple.. you cant get the package
[08:35] <show_now_on> yes...can't get this package or any other that i've tried
[08:38] <jabra> can someone sync a package from debian unstable 
[08:38] <jabra> I updated the debian package and I want to make sure the updates gets into feisty
[08:39] <nrg88> micahcowan: back :)
[08:39] <nrg88> what tools do i need to install?
[08:39] <nrg88> dch and debdiff?
[08:39] <micahcowan> nrg88, yup
[08:39] <geser> jabra: which package?
[08:40] <nrg88> nrg88@nrg88-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install dch debdiff
[08:40] <nrg88> Password:
[08:40] <nrg88> Reading package lists... Done
[08:40] <nrg88> Building dependency tree
[08:40] <nrg88> Reading state information... Done
[08:40] <nrg88> E: Couldn't find package dch
[08:40] <nrg88> oops
[08:40] <nrg88> sorry
[08:40] <geser> nrg88: sudo apt-get install devscripts
[08:41] <jabra> geser: pbnj
[08:41] <micahcowan> Peanut Butter N' Jelly? :)
[08:41] <nrg88> got it, thanks geser
[08:41] <nrg88> next?
[08:41] <nrg88> :)
[08:42] <nrg88> (excuse me for asking so many question, i want to learn to make patch-es and deb files)
[08:43] <micahcowan> nrg88, since you've already made your changes, invoke dch -i, which will help you add a new entry in debian/changelog (thanks jekil for reminding me of the name)
[08:43] <nrg88> i change the path to kubuntu-default-settings-7.04 first?
[08:44] <micahcowan> nrg, yes
[08:45] <micahcowan> Make sure to correct your name, email address, since you probably don't have the config/env vars set up to fill those automatically.
[08:46] <micahcowan> nrg88, btw, you may find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics quite helpful to go over.
[08:46] <micahcowan> It walks through the creation of a debdiff.
[08:47] <geser> jabra: found your bug and ACKed the sync request
[08:47] <jabra> awesome
[08:47] <nrg88> nice, thanks :)
[08:47] <jabra> geser++
[08:48] <geser> jabra: the next time subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug and someone from the team will ACK it
[08:48] <jabra> ok
[08:49] <geser> additionally you can ask here for an ACK to speed up things (and mention the bug number)
[08:49] <jabra> oops forgot to send you the bug number
[08:49] <jabra> ment to do that
[08:49] <jabra> figured you would ask
[08:49] <jabra> cool thanks
[08:51] <show_now_on> Hi...now trying in terminal to connect to the archive....and still not connecting to [us.archive.ubuntu.com (91.189.89.8)]  
[08:56] <gnomefreak> show_now_on: remove the country code
[08:56] <show_now_on> oh...
[08:56] <gnomefreak> jjust use archive.ubuntu.com
[08:56] <show_now_on> k
[08:56] <gnomefreak> us mirrors have been known to have issues
[08:57] <show_now_on> ok
[09:01] <micahcowan> In the patch I'm preparing, dpatch apply-all is failing on my patch; however, it appears to have made the actual changes successfully...
[09:02] <micahcowan> I notice the other patches in the directory have some shell-script stuff at the top checking for -patch|-unpatch as arguments, whereas mine lacks that. Did I do something wrong in how I used dpatch?
[09:04] <theCore> micahcowan: how did you create the patch?
[09:04] <theCore> micahcowan: diff?
[09:04] <micahcowan> via dpatch-edit-patch (and then appending the name to 00list)
[09:04] <theCore> micahcowan: ah, good
[09:05] <theCore> I wonder why it's failing, then
[09:07] <micahcowan> Ah, one hunk failed (finally found -v in the manpage: should've just tried it out anyway).
[09:37] <micahcowan> Yay! That gawk segfault bug is finally squashed. :)
[09:57] <show_now_on> help...[E: Type 'archive.ubuntu.com' is not known on line 44 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list] ...now...update doesn't even load
[09:57] <show_now_on> i can't save to /etc/apt...what can i do
[09:59] <LaserJock> why can't you save to /etc/apt/ ? no permissions?
[10:00] <show_now_on> uhmmm
[10:00] <show_now_on> i mean....that i can't just pull up the doc...correct and save to replace in /etc/apt
[10:01] <LaserJock> well, /etc/apt/sources.list has got a problem
[10:01] <LaserJock> so if you can't change it you'll need to get somebody who can
[10:01] <show_now_on> ahha...figured that much....corrupt mirror @ us.archive
[10:02] <show_now_on> how can i pull it up to change..through terminal
[10:02] <LaserJock> sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:03] <show_now_on> ahha...thanx a bunch
[10:06] <jdong> LaserJock: there's a typo in your command... I think that's supposed to say "vi"
[10:06] <LaserJock> jdong: umm, sure, that would be the "easy" way to do ;-)
[10:06] <nrg88> micahcowan: now i'm really confused :D
[10:07] <nrg88> i was trying to make the diff file with kompare (a kde tool)
[10:07] <nrg88> if i have 2 directories with files
[10:07] <nrg88> how do i make a diff file?
[10:07] <nrg88> (so it only contains the modifications)
[10:07] <micahcowan> nrg88, you're talking about the debdiff?
[10:08] <nrg88> i used a tool: kompare
[10:08] <nrg88> now that used diff
[10:08] <micahcowan> You actually just build a source package from the changes you made, and then use debdiff between the original and your new one.
[10:08] <nrg88> i need a diff for the sources
[10:08] <nrg88> oh
[10:08] <micahcowan> I don't know anything about kompare; but I suspect it just does normal diffs.
[10:08] <LaserJock> I think so
[10:08] <micahcowan> Ope, got to go.
[10:09] <nrg88> so first i need to make the deb packages? :?
[10:09] <LaserJock> nrg88: once you have the new package just run debdiff <old package>.dsc <new package>.dsc to get the debdiff
[10:09] <LaserJock> just a new source package
[10:09] <LaserJock> you don't *have* to build the .debs to get a debdiff
[10:09] <nrg88> i just tar.gz it?
[10:09] <LaserJock> hmm, no
[10:10] <LaserJock> have you built an Ubuntu/Debian source package before?
[10:10] <nrg88> i've used the file kubuntu-default-settings_7.04-38.tar.gz
[10:10] <nrg88> no
[10:10] <LaserJock> are you making a lot of changes?
[10:11] <nrg88> no, i did modifications in two files and the changelog file
[10:11] <LaserJock> ok, well, lets go through how to make a new source package out of it
[10:11] <nrg88> ok
[10:12] <LaserJock> did you get a .dsc file when you got the .tar.gz ?
[10:12] <nrg88> yes i did
[10:12] <nrg88> kubuntu-default-settings_7.04-38.dsc
[10:12] <LaserJock> ok, those 2 files together are the source package
[10:13] <LaserJock> so you unpacked the .tar.gz and made you changes
[10:13] <nrg88> yes
[10:13] <LaserJock> then you added a changelog entry
[10:13] <nrg88> that's right
[10:13] <LaserJock> ok, what's the version in your changelog entry?
[10:14] <nrg88> kubuntu-default-settings (1:7.04-39) feisty; urgency=low
[10:14] <nrg88> so it's 7:04-39
[10:14] <LaserJock> ok, excellent
[10:15] <LaserJock> nrg88: try running debuild -S in the source directory
[10:19] <nrg88> it failed
[10:19] <nrg88> but do you know any other service like pastebin?
[10:19] <nrg88> pastebin doesn't work right now
[10:19] <nrg88> strange...
[10:19] <LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
[10:21] <nrg88> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14271/
[10:21] <jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14270/
[10:21] <jussi01> oops
[10:21] <LaserJock> nrg88: do you happen to have a gpg key?
[10:22] <nrg88> no, i don't
[10:22] <nrg88> is it necessary?
[10:22] <LaserJock> no
[10:22] <LaserJock> it's helpful if you want to do more contributions in the future, like package a new app
[10:23] <LaserJock> for now just run debuild -S -us -uc
[10:23] <LaserJock> that tells it to not sign anything
[10:23] <nrg88> Finished running lintian.
[10:23] <nrg88> great :)
[10:24] <LaserJock> nrg88: ok so if you cd .. you'll see a new tar.gz and .dsc there
[10:24] <LaserJock> with the -39 version
[10:25] <nrg88> yes, i see it
[10:26] <LaserJock> congrats, you made your fist source package :-)
[10:26] <nrg88> :D
[10:26] <nrg88> cool
[10:26] <LaserJock> now you need to make the debdiff
[10:26] <nrg88> now i do the debdiff stuff?
[10:26] <nrg88> ok
[10:26] <LaserJock> as uploading the whole thing is a bit overkill
[10:27] <LaserJock> we just want a patch that  will turn the current version into your version
[10:29] <sacater> LaserJock: would you be my MOTU mentor?
[10:29] <nrg88> LaserJock: where does it dump the diff file? :?
[10:30] <nrg88> simply on the screen?
[10:30] <LaserJock> nrg88: yes
[10:30] <LaserJock> just add a > tmp_diff to send it to a file
[10:33] <nrg88> LaserJock: is this what i'm supposed to get: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14274/ and i just attach it to the bug report in lauchpad as a "patch" ?
[10:37] <micahcowan> nrg88, did you get what you needed?
[10:37] <nrg88> hi micahcowan, yes i got the diff file :)
[10:37] <nrg88> it looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14274/
[10:37] <micahcowan> Coolness. I got mine, too. :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gawk/+bug/58256
[10:37] <ubotu> Malone bug 58256 in gawk "length() memory error " [Undecided,In progress]  
[10:38] <nrg88> now i just attach the diff file as a "patch"?
[10:39] <LaserJock> nrg88: beautiful, yes
[10:39] <LaserJock> nrg88: just a sec though
[10:40] <LaserJock> this fixes a bug on Launchpad, right?
[10:40] <nrg88> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-default-settings/+bug/57102
[10:40] <nrg88> this one :)
[10:40] <ubotu> Malone bug 57102 in kubuntu-default-settings "Kubuntu Package Manager problem: package doesn't get installed when it is in a directory with spaces on its name" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[10:40] <nrg88> this one is present in both edgy and feisty too
[10:41] <LaserJock> nrg88: generally you want to mention the bug # that's getting fixed in the changelog
[10:41] <LaserJock> nrg88: add something like (LP: #57102)
[10:41] <nrg88> ok
[10:43] <nrg88> all done :)
[10:45] <sacater> laserjock, will you?
[10:45] <nrg88> LaserJock: now i can attach the diff file to the bugreport?
[10:46] <LaserJock> nrg88: just upload it as a patch
[10:46] <LaserJock> sacater: well, I think the MOTU might want to set up a mentoring mailing list
[10:48] <LaserJock> nrg88: excellent
[10:48] <nrg88> thank you LaserJock, and now we wait for the package maintainer to check it out?
[10:48] <micahcowan> LaserJock, what a terrific idea!
[10:49] <LaserJock> nrg88: well, you'll probably want to ping somebody in #kubuntu-devel
[10:49] <ScottK> nrg88: You might want to check in #kubuntu-devel and see if anyone there is interested in uploading the patch.
[10:50] <LaserJock> heh
[10:50] <micahcowan> I still love the MOTUSchool.
[10:50] <LaserJock> yes, we need to get that going again
[10:51] <LaserJock> probably try to tie them all together
[10:52] <micahcowan> Looks like I missed a few good ones, like those "maintaining an Ubuntu package" ones ;-) ...I kinda dropped activity the last 6 mos
[10:52] <LaserJock> it's just hard to take time to prepare a lesson
[10:52] <LaserJock> and work on documentation, etc.
[10:52] <sacater> LaserJock: hmm, is that a yes or no :P
[10:52] <LaserJock> sacater: it's a sorta ;-)
[10:53] <LaserJock> sacater: you can always ask here. If you aren't sure or don't want to ask here, email me.
[10:54] <ubotu> Malone bug 56125 in apt "doesnt look like a cow" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56125
[10:54] <LaserJock> I kinda like the idea of setting up a ubuntu-motu-mentors list
[10:54] <LaserJock> so people can get info from more than one person
[10:55] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'd sign up for it.  IRC here works well when people are around the same time I am, but that's sometimes hit or miss.
[10:55] <micahcowan> Me too.
[10:55] <nrg88> that would be a great idea
[10:55] <LaserJock> yeah, for me I think we'd bee doing really well with a combination of several things:
[10:55] <LaserJock> 1) -mentors mailing list
[10:55] <LaserJock> 2) MOTU School
[10:56] <LaserJock> 3) Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[10:56] <LaserJock> 4) MOTU wiki documentation
[10:56] <LaserJock> that way we have IRC, ML, guide docs, and easy to change docs :-)
[10:57] <nrg88> do you guys know this tool: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Debian+Package+Tools+FE?content=49723 ?
[10:57] <nrg88> it seems like an easy alternative to packaging
[10:59] <LaserJock> I've seen a few tools like that
[10:59] <LaserJock> personally I don't know that they're much help
[10:59] <LaserJock> there is way too much "art" to packaging
[11:02] <LaserJock> so far we have items 1-4
[11:02] <LaserJock> we just need to make them better
[11:02] <LaserJock> and get them fired up
[11:07] <micahcowan> Item 1 exists?
[11:08] <micahcowan> I find 3 (plus Debian's own dev docs) to have been very helpful.
[11:08] <micahcowan> and 4
[11:12] <superm1> is there any way for a package to be aware of other packages being installed at the same time?  say if package_a is being installed right now too, lets run this script.  if package_b is being installed right now, run that script?
[11:14] <LaserJock> superm1: not currently no
[11:14] <superm1> k thx LaserJock 
[11:15] <superm1> what is the best way to handle something like that then?
[11:15] <LaserJock> superm1: perhaps a predepends
[11:15] <superm1> can you do a predepends with an or?
[11:15] <LaserJock> which means that the other package has to be installed *before*
[11:15] <superm1> like a PreDepends: Package A || Package B
[11:15] <superm1> sort of thing?
[11:17] <superm1> and if you did the or on the predepends, it wouldn't necessarily install both right?
[11:21] <ajmitch> morning
[11:23] <LaserJock> superm1: I really don't know. Predepends don't seem to be very smilied upon
[11:28] <sacater> hmm, feisty and the devs have been insulted for being incomplete in our xserver, wifi, and firefox
[11:28] <sacater> i say he can go back to n00by windows
[11:29] <sacater> LaserJock: is feisty a bit behind in deadline?
[11:30] <sacater> s/deadline/deadlines
[11:32] <LaserJock> sacater: what do you mean?
[11:32] <LaserJock> we have deadlines and we haven't shifted them
[11:34] <sacater> LaserJock: well i have a noob in #ubuntu complaining that we arnt 'meeting the deadline with good packages'
[11:35] <LaserJock> well, that's their opinion
[11:35] <sacater> lousy opinion...
[11:35] <LaserJock> mostly
[11:35] <LaserJock> as with all releases, there's probably more we could get done with more time
[11:35] <sacater> yeh
[11:36] <sacater> of course
[11:36] <LaserJock> but this is a time based release, we get done what we can in the time we have
[11:36] <sacater> but still, we all work had with stuff, 
[11:36] <sacater> and then get someone like him saying we arnt working hard enough :@
[11:36] <LaserJock> sacater: get used to it ;-)
[11:39] <nrg88> so? we have a hell lot of packages, and we do our best in a matter of months, wereas M$ needs years to bring out releases (oh... and are they bringing out stable os-es? i don't think so)
[11:41] <nrg88> sacater: then tell the guy to use LTS releases...
[11:42] <sacater> amen to that!
[11:43] <zorglu_> sacater: a possible answer to that could be 'if you think we are not doing enought, come help us and we will do more together'
[11:44] <sacater> 22:44 jack_deltrino : a) When something goes into Beta, I expect it to work with a lot more things than if it was in Alpha.  It supposedly means that developers have fully tested it. Feisty is seriously crapping out on my box  and other distributions of Linux as well as Windows perform just fine, so there's a reason for me to 
[11:44] <sacater>  believe that the dvelopers aren't doing as well as I think they could be . b) I submit packages to  REVU after asking wher
[11:44] <sacater> zorglu_: i dont think he wants to help, 
[11:45] <zorglu_> sacater: me neither, but it would be a lot harder for him to complain once he denied to help :)
[11:45] <sacater> touche'
[11:45] <joejaxx> sacater: well tell him to help or be quiet :P
[11:45] <sacater> yes!
[11:45] <sacater> shall do!
[11:45] <joejaxx> sacater: we are volunteers
[11:46] <joejaxx> :)
[11:46] <nrg88> i think he is confusing ubuntu with a commercial product he paid good bucks for...
[11:47] <zorglu_> for the 'i gonna come back to window' threat, i usually answer "ubuntu want you to be happy, if you feel happier with window, we are glad you found a software that fit your need"
[11:47] <zorglu_> i was good at discarding people gently :)
[11:48] <sacater> zorglu_: im 14.... and i think that is illogical...
[11:48] <sacater> :S
[11:48] <sacater> :D
[11:49] <sacater> 22:50 jack_deltrino : Okay, talking behind my back like that is pretty low dude. I never said anything about "i gonna come  back to window" [sic] . I just said that it works on other distributions, and the latest Beta doesn't  work. Considering that it is getting close to the final deadline, I don't see how the project has time  to fix all the bugs in time.
[11:49] <sacater> 22:51 jack_deltrino : If the core developers can't handle the pressure, they can delegate work to more volunteers that are  willing to do some work.
[11:49] <sacater> i call that person
[11:49] <zorglu_> ok lets handle this guy :)
[11:50] <sacater> yes
[11:50] <jack_deltrino> Hello.
[11:50] <sacater> 22:51 jack_deltrino : How can anyone become a core developer if REVU isn't being actively reviewed.
[11:50] <jack_deltrino> Indeed.
[11:50] <sacater> zorglu_: hes all yours
[11:50] <joejaxx> really the the developers are not doing enough complain is like a citizen of a fortress complaining that the defensive walls or too weak while people are building it and not helping out
[11:51] <sacater> joejaxx: hear hear!
[11:51] <jack_deltrino> I _am_ helping out, no one is reviewing REVU.
[11:51] <sacater> jack_deltrino: what sort of shiz are you proposing to the community
[11:51] <joejaxx> jack_deltrino: did you talking to someone about reviewing our package?
[11:51] <nrg88> isn't launchpad the place for making a release stable? like bugreporting and stuff? :?
[11:51] <jack_deltrino> sacater: I don't need to take abuse. I merely told you how I felt and _you_ relayed it to a bunch of other people to start a flamefest.
[11:51] <joejaxx> jack_deltrino: i do not know if people look at revu constantly
[11:52] <sacater> we arnt abusing
[11:52] <joejaxx> jack_deltrino: you can always ping someone here
[11:52] <sacater> you complained
[11:52] <jack_deltrino> That was never my intent. I like Ubuntu. If there are some flaws, I believe that it should be improved.
[11:52] <sacater> we are commity
[11:52] <sacater> talk to us
[11:52] <sacater> well
[11:52] <jack_deltrino> sacater: If we are a community, why are you trying to incite arguments?
[11:52] <jack_deltrino> sacater: I don't believe your goal was honest at all.
[11:52] <joejaxx> jack_deltrino: and if they are not busy they can review your package :)
[11:52] <sacater> jack_deltrino: its not arguing, its contradiction
[11:52] <zorglu_> jack_deltrino: what are your proposal for improvement ?
[11:52] <jack_deltrino> sacater: I merely mentioned that Feisty was not coming along so well in some channels.
[11:52] <joejaxx> jack_deltrino: i had to do the same thing with my packages that are currently in universe
[11:53] <jack_deltrino> joejaxx: And?
[11:53] <sacater> whoops
[11:53] <sacater> no way
[11:53] <joejaxx> jack_deltrino: ?
[11:53] <_MMA_> sacater: Please take this to PM. This really isnt needed in the channel.
[11:53] <jack_deltrino> sacater: What? You seem like a troll. The others seem to actively understand what Ubuntu is about.
[11:53] <zorglu_> jack_deltrino: what are your proposal for improvement ?
[11:53] <sacater> _MMA_: fine, all those who wish to continue this discussion, make for #sacater
[11:53] <jack_deltrino> zorglu_: If I tell you they won't go under review. All I will say is that REVU needs to be reviewed. There are a lot of packages that haven't gotten a single comment.
[11:54] <jack_deltrino> sacater: As far as I'm concerned, my discussion with you ends here.
[11:54] <sacater> meh
[11:54] <sacater> in the words of catherine tate
[11:54] <zorglu_> cool :)
[11:54] <sacater> am i boffered?
[11:54] <zorglu_> thus it is no more bothering ubuntu people :)
[11:54] <sacater> another high five is in order
[11:55] <zorglu_> :)
[11:55] <sacater> finalbeta_: what is with your quit message?
[11:55] <sacater> :P
[11:56] <finalbeta_> which one?
[11:56] <finalbeta_> Smoking grass one are lyrics from songs.
[11:56] <sacater> oh
[11:56] <sacater> ok, now i understand
[11:57] <nrg88> jack_deltrino: but if you want feisty to be stable for release, isn't launchpad the place to discuss stability issues and bugs?
[11:57] <sacater> meh
[11:57] <finalbeta_> And my high school philosophy ;).
[11:57] <sacater> finalbeta_: if you dont mind me asking, age?
[11:57] <sacater> im 14
[11:57] <sacater> and shiny...
[11:58] <finalbeta_> I'm 22. And the philosophy got left behind in high school ;)
[11:58] <jack_deltrino> nrg88: I usually ask on IRC first. If other people suggest that I post on Launchpad, then I do so. I was asking around in #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1 for issues others may have and the general consensus was that wireless and X was broken in a lot of instances.
[11:58] <sacater> finalbeta_: aha
[11:58] <sacater> jack_deltrino: that is true, my wireless and xserver are broken, it annoys me, but i dont break down into a hissy fit
[11:59] <jack_deltrino> sacater: Who said I broke down into a hissy fit?
[11:59] <zorglu_> nrg88: jack_deltrino: it was over. lets not relaunch it :) if you wish too, you can pm or go on another channel as previously proposed
[11:59] <sacater> erm
[11:59] <jack_deltrino> Yeah, true.
[11:59] <sacater> #sacater is open for arguement!
[11:59] <sacater> meh im going now...
[12:00] <sacater> night all
[12:05] <ScottK> LaserJock: Is there a mentors mailing list already?  I'd like to sign up if there is.