[12:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: not yet, somebody (dholbach I think) mentioned it on the ubuntu-motu list
[12:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: please respond to that email if you're interested
[12:16] <LaserJock> oh geeze
[12:19] <micahcowan> @lart LaserJock for saying steps 1 through 4 (1 being motu-mentor list) were in place
[12:19] <micahcowan> ...
[12:19] <micahcowan> o yeah, not on this chan...
[12:20] <LaserJock> micahcowan: oops
[12:20] <micahcowan> :)
[12:21] <LaserJock> man, I make a quick Taco Bell run and the whole channel goes to heck ;-)
[12:22] <ajmitch> you should know better ;)
[12:25] <show_now_on> LaserJock thank you for before (giving me the command)...i deleted the one line and now @ least my update list populates
[12:25] <show_now_on> thanx a bunch
[12:33] <LaserJock> show_now_on: no problem
[12:50] <sharms> what is the command to show which package a file belongs to?
[12:51] <Flannel> sharms: dpkg -S file
[12:51] <ScottK> LaserJock: I responded to the e-mail.
[12:52] <sharms> Flannel: thanks
[12:53] <micahcowan> dpkg -S <file>
[12:57] <LaserJock> ScottK: thanks
[01:26] <crimsun> hmph.
[01:27] <crimsun> people keep screaming for deluge-torrent 0.5
[01:27] <jdong> crimsun: well it is a big step up from 0.4
[01:27] <jdong> crimsun: the version in our repos has a bug where multifile torrents will get trashed in some circumstances
[01:27] <crimsun> is there a backportable fix?
[01:28] <crimsun> --> In short, Deluge isn't really done yet, and it's still in rapid development, which is why I'd almost rather it not be in the repository at all, sadly. I just don't want users to look at whatever version winds up packaged in the repositories and think that it's "done."
[01:28] <jdong> crimsun: the developer decided to just fix it in the next release
[01:28] <jdong> which is a full rewrite basically
[01:28] <crimsun> tell me why -uvf should even consider deluge-torrent 0.5 if the upstream dev states the above unequivocally.
[01:29] <jdong> heh... I think he was just frustrated and not wording things rationally
[01:29] <crimsun> sounds pretty rational to me.
[01:29] <jdong> I think his main point was that the current version has a major data loss bug
[01:29] <jdong> and he would like to use it as a reason to push a new version in
[01:29] <jdong> to be fair he was originally aiming it to be out before UVF happened
[01:30] <jdong> but he fell short
[01:30] <crimsun> err, then we do the sane thing, which is request that the binaries be removed from the archive.
[01:30] <crimsun> if we can't do that, then we ask for a full source+binary removal.
[01:31] <jdong> true
[01:31] <jdong> well I'm not one way or the other on this
[01:32] <crimsun> unpopular, yes, but we need to weigh the fact that even if motu-uvf approves it and MOTU uploads, we're fewer than FOURTEEN days from release. Archive admins are already swamped. Clearly fixing milestones for -7.04 are higher priority.
[01:32] <jdong> crimsun: agreed, it is way too soon to release to be putting in a new release that's a _rewrite_
[01:32] <jdong> crimsun: I don't think it's the end of the world if it's handled as a feisty-backports
[01:32] <crimsun> precisely. Besides, feisty+1 will be open $soon
[01:34] <jdong> sounds like a good plan
[01:34] <jdong> and I'll try to make him happier about the decision too :)
[01:34] <jdong> IIRC he filed the UVF around the same time we were battling xgl, no?
[01:39] <ajmitch> crimsun: had someone even made a package for it?
[01:39] <ajmitch> I looked at the bug & it seemed rather stalled
[01:40] <jdong> ajmitch: yeah, he has packages for it
[01:41] <crimsun> I'm fine with it going in, but I have stated publicly in that bug report (90749) what my opinion is.
[01:41] <ajmitch> yes, I see that now
[01:44] <ajmitch> apparantly there are already a number of problems with 0.5, just not as bad as 0.4
[01:44] <jdong> ajmitch: yeah, that sounds like Deluge :)
[01:46] <ajmitch> users will complain, but oh well
[01:46] <ajmitch> that's what developers are here for, to get beaten up by users
[01:46] <ajmitch> hi jml 
[01:54] <crimsun> fresh boot or resume from suspend-to-* ?
[01:54] <Fujitsu> It hasn't been rebooted in a couple of days, but it hasn't been suspended.
[01:55] <crimsun> what's holding /dev/dsp*, /dev/audio*, /dev/mixer*, or /dev/snd/* open?
[01:56] <crimsun> (or /dev/sequencer* )
[01:56] <Fujitsu> lsof doesn't show anything.
[01:56] <crimsun> what about in dmesg?
[01:56] <crimsun> codec warnings, errors, etc.
[01:57] <Fujitsu> I can't see anything particularly special in there.
[01:57] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: last time I had that happen, the chipset fan on the motherboard had stopped :)
[01:58] <Fujitsu> Nice, ajmitch.
[01:58] <crimsun> err, my terminal just disappeared
[01:58] <Fujitsu> OSS works fine, oddly.
[01:58] <crimsun> hmm, seems like an IPC issue, then
[01:58] <Fujitsu> semget(5678293, 1, IPC_CREAT|0660)      = 6258690
[01:58] <Fujitsu> semctl(6258690, 0, IPC_64|IPC_STAT, 0xbfa69dc8) = 0
[01:58] <Fujitsu> semctl(6258690, 0, IPC_64|IPC_SET, 0xbfa69dc8) = -1 EPERM (Operation not permitted)
[01:58] <Fujitsu> semop(6258690, 0xbfa69e9e, 2
[01:59] <crimsun> does `aplay -Dplug:hw0 /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav' work?
[01:59] <Fujitsu> Same thing for the various things I've tried to play with.
[01:59] <ajmitch> that's special
[01:59] <jml> ajmitch: hi
[02:00] <Fujitsu> hw0 doesn't work, says `Unknown PCM'. Just hw works fine.
[02:02] <crimsun> oh, right, it would have been -Dplughw:0
[02:02] <crimsun> ok, yeah, IPC issue with dmix
[02:02] <crimsun> there a bug report on this, gotta find it
[02:02] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[02:03] <Fujitsu> It does this sometimes after not being rebooted for a few days. A little irritating.
[02:07] <crimsun> you can work around with sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}') && sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel
[02:07] <StevenK> That may not work, due to lsmod's ordering.
[02:10] <Fujitsu> modprobe complains about an unmatched bracket in `snd_hda_intel'... I don't see any brackets there.
[02:13] <crimsun> pastebin the command and output, please
[02:14] <Fujitsu> It's three lines... Should I still pastebin it?
[02:14] <crimsun> please
[02:14] <Fujitsu> OK.
[02:15] <Fujitsu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14324/
[02:15] <sharms> ***Blatant attempt to draw attention to my spec***  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
[02:16] <Fujitsu> I removed and reloaded all the modules manually, but it still hangs.
[02:18] <crimsun> what the
[02:18] <crimsun> something a lot more nefarious is occurring
[02:20] <Fujitsu> Looks that way.
[02:21] <crimsun> pastebin /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/sub0/* contents?
[02:24] <Fujitsu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14325/
[02:33] <crimsun> Fujitsu: vanilla i386 install (not amd64)?
[02:33] <Fujitsu> i386 it is.
[02:39] <shawarma> sharms: I don't think you want colour=always in GREP_OPTIONS.
[02:39] <shawarma> sharms: Are you familiar with the difference between "auto" and "always" in that context?
[02:41] <wick2o> evening
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Hi wick2o
[02:41] <wick2o> hows it going Fujitsu?
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Fine, wick2o. And you?
[02:42] <wick2o> doin already, tring to solve a problem in my postinit script
[02:42] <wick2o> other then that im ok i guess
[02:43] <wick2o> im tring to do a dpkg -i filename.deb and still use db_get
[02:51] <crimsun> Fujitsu: please add ``cat /proc/sys/kernel/shm*''
[02:52] <Fujitsu> crimsun: Done.
[02:52] <shawarma> w/in 32
[02:52] <shawarma> doh..
[02:53] <wick2o> can you not use db_get in a postinst script when you use dpkg -i?
[02:55] <LaserJock> hmm, I've never heard of db_get
[02:55] <rmjb> Hello room
[02:56] <rmjb> can someone build a x86_64 version of a package for me? I want to give it to a user for testing and I can only build i386
[02:56] <wick2o> really?
[02:56] <RAOF> rmjb: Yup?
[02:56] <wick2o> thats how you get those nice popups for information when you say apt-get ddclient
[02:57] <wick2o> or anything else that asks you for input when you "configure" durning an apt-get install
[02:57] <LaserJock> oh debconf?
[02:57] <wick2o> ya
[02:57] <LaserJock> ah yeah, I know what you mean now
[02:57] <wick2o> im tring to install the deb manually with dpkg -i yet still get those prompts
[02:57] <LaserJock> I think it works with dpkg -i
[02:57] <RAOF> rmjb: Point me to the source and where you'd like the finished package.
[02:58] <wick2o> umm, then my deb must be messed up, because it installs fine, but doesnt give me the prompts
[02:58] <RAOF> Yay!  My banshee imports wavpack now :)
[02:58] <shawarma> wick2o: Which priority have you set for your questions?
[02:58] <LaserJock> wick2o: you might need to play with the priority/interface for debconf
[02:59] <wick2o> umm I dont thing i have ANY priority set
[03:00] <wick2o> i dont really know what im doing, i just did an apt-get source ddclient and used source from their postinit script and tweaked it a bit to fit my needs....i may have very well missed something
[03:01] <crimsun> Fujitsu: ok, what I would do is use ipcrm(8) to remove the offending key/segment (see ipcs(8) -m)
[03:01] <Fujitsu> crimsun: I've got nooo idea what I'm doing here, but I'll have a look=.
[03:01] <crimsun> Fujitsu: the shorter method is simply to reboot, but I'm sure you've been using that already
[03:02] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes, yes. I'm in 2 threads on it
[03:02] <shawarma> wick2o: Well, there's also something about debconf not asking questions again if it's already got an answer (ie. you've already answered it).
[03:02] <Fujitsu> `Not especially funny to most of the responders in this thread. Given the standard Ubuntu approach to development packages (if it compiles, throw it in the main repository and let everyone suffer), you're definitely damned, especially since many developers intentionally exclude themselves from community input such as this forum. No one has apparently heard of the concept of at least limited testing before release.'
[03:02] <Fujitsu> The standard Ubuntu approach to development? What the?
[03:02] <shawarma> wick2o: I don't remember it all to well. It's been over a year since I've used it last.
[03:03] <shawarma> Fujitsu: Where's that from?
[03:03] <Fujitsu> shawarma: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=393039&page=10
[03:03] <wick2o> shawarma, i think that only holds true if you dont do a purge when you uninstall
[03:04] <Fujitsu> crimsun: What am I looking for in that list?
[03:04] <crimsun> Fujitsu: key matching dmix shared memory segment
[03:05] <shawarma> wick2o: Well, if the postrm script removes stuff from debconf, then yes. debhelper might put stuff in for that. 
[03:05] <crimsun> Fujitsu: if you haven't modified it, grep 
[03:05] <crimsun> err
[03:05] <Fujitsu> crimsun: How do I identify which that is?
[03:05] <wick2o> umm my postrm doesnt do anything currently
[03:05] <crimsun> Fujitsu: if you haven't modified it, grep -nH ipc /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf
[03:06] <crimsun> ipc_key in particular
[03:06] <wick2o> shawarma, is there a way to manually remove or check for these answers?
[03:06] <crimsun> Fujitsu: stracing an alsa app will also help pinpoint where it's failing on the shm segment
[03:07] <Fujitsu> Only 4 of the items in the list returned by ipcs have a non-zero key, and none of them are that mentioned in alsa.conf :S
[03:09] <Fujitsu> OK, so it seems mpd had the semaphore that everything was hanging on. I removed it and all is good.
[03:10] <shawarma> wick2o: It's all stored in /var/cache/debconfig/config.dat, but unless you're quite sure what you're doing, I wouldn't mass too much with it by hand.
[03:10] <wick2o> shawarma, apt-get -y --purge item did the trick as far as clearning debconf
[03:11] <wick2o> however that doesnt help at all with my package
[03:11] <wick2o> ( i did a test with ddclient)
[03:11] <sharms> shawarma: whats the downside to my grep option
[03:12] <sharms> shawarma: ah I want auto there
[03:13] <wick2o> there has to be some debconf settings somewhere else in a standard deb that i have forgotten
[03:14] <shawarma> sharms: Thought so. :-)
[03:14] <sharms> I really want to get some of these in feisty + 1
[03:14] <sharms> gonna make a launchpad spec
[03:25] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:25] <RAOF> Hey bddebian
[03:25] <bddebian> Hi RAOF
[03:26] <rmjb> hey bddebian, long time no see
[03:26] <bddebian> Hello rmjb
[03:27] <RAOF> rmjb: You've got mail :)
[03:28] <rmjb> RAOF: thank you kindly
[03:28] <RAOF> I presume you don't want the build-logs?
[03:28] <rmjb> nah, I think this builds fine... will inspect with fileroller
[03:33] <wick2o> shawarma,  i found my whole problem
[03:33] <wick2o> if any "admins" are around http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
[03:33] <wick2o> this link might be useful to add to your "!" 
[03:44] <bddebian> Is it supposed to be a Hug day?
[03:44] <sharms> bddebian: you can hug my spec any day: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
[03:46] <bddebian> sharms: I don't do specs, I'm just a schlub :-(
[03:46] <sharms> bddebian: I could also use more people doing propaganda work for it :)
[03:46] <sharms> such as when someone says a question, work my spec address into the answer
[03:47] <ajmitch> ugh
[03:47] <bddebian> heh, sounds "dirty" ;-P
[03:47] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[03:48] <sharms> ajmitch, nobody can spam a spec like me
[03:48] <crimsun> I like it. Makes my supar-AI's spec-ignorer work overtime!
[03:48] <ajmitch> it makes me want to ignore that spec 
[03:48] <sharms> to be fair, I made it almost 6 months ago and it has been totally ignored
[04:15] <nixternal> ajmitch: did you hug that spec? did you look at it? huh huh did you? ;p
[04:24] <wick2o> in debconf id like to use a db_get netcfg/get_ipaddress and use that value as a default for questions in my custom deb
[04:25] <wick2o> or can you only set defaults in your templates file?
[04:26] <crimsun> nixternal: my spec-autoignorer hugged it. Hugged it right into /dev/null.
[04:26] <nixternal> haha
[04:27] <nixternal> crimsun: have you heard anything about some random weirdness with intel hda? (ICH7 or whatever), where the PCM vol will turn down low to where you can't hear sound all that well? it is random
[04:28] <crimsun> rich, the correct question to ask is "Have you heard of any situation where sound works correctly?"
[04:28] <Fujitsu> HDA sounds like a lot of fun to work with.
[04:28] <nixternal> heh
[04:28] <crimsun> basically, if it's sound and I've heard of it, it's because it's broken. :-)
[04:29] <nixternal> crimsun: it works fine, but there was something either a website with flash like youtube, that would just mute sound by dropping the pcm
[04:29] <nixternal> I think it was YouTube and flash doing it maybe
[04:29] <nixternal> because it hasn't happened in a couple of days now that I think about it
[04:29] <crimsun> that's Flash's fault
[04:30] <crimsun> entirely beyond the prerogative of alsa-{lib,driver}
[04:30] <crimsun> Flash 9 attempts to open every single subdevice on every enumerated alsa device.
[04:30] <crimsun> it makes for FUN TIMES.
[04:31] <crimsun> (it also makes rejecting flashplugin-nonfree bugs a lot easier, but that's another matter altogether.)
[04:31] <nixternal> ahhh, so it is definitely flash then, I am glad I remembered that
[04:31] <nixternal> ya, I couldn't think of anything else that was causing the issue
[04:31] <crimsun> hopefully we'll have the "one mixer interface to rule them all" completed for feisty+1
[04:32] <Burgundavia> crimsun: might that explain why certain usb audio devices work with everything put flash?
[04:32] <nixternal> rock on!
[04:32] <wick2o> umm
[04:32] <crimsun> Burgundavia: usb audio devices have their own sets of quirks (no pun intended, as quirks are technically hard-coded into the source code)
[04:33] <Burgundavia> crimsun: indeed. We are busy ripping our hair out at Userful over several devices that customers bought in quantity
[04:35] <bddebian> usb has quirks period :)
[04:36] <crimsun> I love how just about every usb audio device requires a quirk entry
[04:36] <crimsun> what, a usb audio 1.x spec? It was obviously made to be ignored!
[04:36] <crimsun> Just like HDA...
[04:37] <crimsun> anyhow, back to your regularly scheduled Ubuntu universe bug list...
[04:38] <Burgundavia> crimsun: want to work on Fedora?
[04:40] <Burgundavia> second thought, scratch that
[04:41] <Burgundavia> *I* don't want to work on Fedora. I shouldn't drag other people into my misery
[04:47] <Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee
[04:51] <nixternal> Burgundavia: what do you have to do with Fedora?
[04:51] <Burgundavia> nixternal: Userful's product is built on it
[04:51] <nixternal> word on the streets is that the KDE implementation for Fedora 7 is going to be rockin'
[04:51] <nixternal> fedora truthfully isn't all that bad, I am just not a fan of rpm
[04:53] <Burgundavia> there are some proactive security things in Ubuntu that make me happy
[04:53] <Burgundavia> plus sudo is already setup and our security support timeframe is well defined
[04:53] <jdong> "4. Wear ANSI approved safety goggles when using this device"
[04:53] <jdong> umm......
[04:53] <jdong> A fluke voltmeter??
[04:54] <Burgundavia> might blow up
[04:54] <jdong> yeah :)
[04:54] <jdong> or the probes might attack you like head crabs
[04:54] <Burgundavia> nixternal: the reality is that the Fedora people are trying to recreate Ubuntu's community, however RedHat has more engineers
[04:55] <nixternal> that is true
[04:55] <wick2o> debconf, is there a way to do dynamic defaults?
[04:56] <Burgundavia> nixternal: the security policy of Fedora is what sets Ubuntu apart in a production environment
[05:06] <ajmitch> hello Burgundavia 
[05:06] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[05:07] <joejaxx> hello ajmitch Burgundavia :)
[05:07] <Burgundavia> hey joejaxx
[05:12] <LaserJock> hiya Burgundavia and ajmitch 
[05:13] <ajmitch> what's up?
[05:13] <RAOF> Anyone feel like some debdiff sponsoring?  bug #103722 fixes a bunch of specto bugs.
[05:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 103722 in specto "specto crashes when monitoring file changes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103722
[05:13] <LaserJock> I still need to finish reading that backlog
[05:13] <LaserJock> the "MOTU suXors" discussion ;-)
[05:14] <ajmitch> heh
[05:14] <bddebian> There was an MOTU suX0rs discussion?
[05:14] <ajmitch> yes
[05:15] <LaserJock> ah well, not that exciting after all
[05:15] <bddebian> Where was this?
[05:15] <LaserJock> here
[05:15] <ajmitch> it fizzled out, thankfully
[05:16] <bddebian> Of course I do suck but that's besides the point :)
[05:16] <LaserJock> too much "yeah huh" ... "nuh uh" ... "yeah huh"
[05:18] <nixternal> anyone have a clue on what updates recently would have broken palm pilot syncing?
[05:19] <bddebian> people still use those things? :)
[05:19] <nixternal> I like to mess with them every now and then
[05:20] <LaserJock> I want one
[05:20] <LaserJock> I keep missing appointments and things
[05:20] <LaserJock> although, as crimsun already has pointed out, if I can't figure out how to use my watch/computer/stickynotes then why would a palm pilot help
[05:21] <bddebian> hehe
[05:21] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14332/
[05:21] <nixternal> tell me that isn't scary
[05:21] <nixternal> wtf
[05:22] <LaserJock> oh, somebody in #ubuntu said that devs didn't seem to be able to meet deadlines for Feisty
[05:22] <Hobbsee> ah, fair enough
[05:22] <LaserJock> that it's still got too many bugs, etc.
[05:22] <Hobbsee> meh.  most of the wifi bugs are pebkac, so...
[05:22] <LaserJock> and when the person was told, "well then help out"
[05:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:22] <crimsun> LaserJock: well, that much is true. OTOH, that's the nature of software.
[05:23] <LaserJock> they pointed out that they had put stuff on REVU and it never got reviewed
[05:23] <bddebian> I have to admit it has seemed like a strange cycle this time for some reason.  Of course my work/home life hasn't helped in that :-(
[05:23] <Hobbsee> we've gotten a fair few new people, merges were slow, and all the beryl crap whihc took a couple of weeks out of devleopment time
[05:24] <Hobbsee> but core dev's had the same problem
[05:24] <LaserJock> well, there's always issues
[05:24] <Hobbsee> true
[05:24] <crimsun> community expectations of Ubuntu will continue to be exaggerated
[05:24] <Hobbsee> oh of course
[05:25] <LaserJock> although that doesn't me we can't learn from criticism and try to do better
[05:25] <crimsun> LaserJock: that's a foregone conclusion
[05:25] <LaserJock> REVU seem not very optimal for consistent reviewing
[05:25] <bddebian> Yeah, it seemed like edgy was smoother for some reason
[05:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: we had crimsun to keep everything together ;-)
[05:25] <bddebian> LaserJock: Well it helps when/if we had more reviewers too :-)
[05:25] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: atm i'm playing with better use of the MOTU page...
[05:26] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: the wiki page?
[05:26] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:26] <crimsun> the fact of the matter is that we simply do not scale, and we will not scale, and people will proceed as if we indeed scale.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> crimsun: very true.
[05:26] <bddebian> crimsun: true dat
[05:26] <Hobbsee> crimsun: and we're nto so great on training up new people, without the MOTU school
[05:26] <ajmitch> so we have to work out how to scale better, without collapsing 
[05:26] <LaserJock> so we need to find a model that does scale
[05:26] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you should run a school session then
[05:26] <Hobbsee> and people either dont have the resources or the will to get better
[05:27] <LaserJock> I haven't quite figured it out yet
[05:27] <LaserJock> I thought more team usage would help
[05:27] <nixternal> dude, the -14 kernel just ate my grub menu.lst
[05:27] <nixternal> that isn't good man
[05:27] <ajmitch> tasty menu.lst
[05:27] <crimsun> nixternal: it ran across your Vista partition and barfed.
[05:27] <nixternal> if I reboot, I am done
[05:28] <Hobbsee> seems to be a problem of people getting to developing stuff at all, really
[05:28] <theCore> nixternal: update-grub?
[05:28] <nixternal> yup
[05:28] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14332/
[05:28] <nixternal> theCore: ^^
[05:28] <nixternal> please tell me there is an easy fix
[05:28] <LaserJock> theCore: hi
[05:28] <nixternal> it looks like it turned everything into ascii code
[05:28] <LaserJock> theCore: I was sad to see the thread about emacs-snapshot being removed
[05:28] <ajmitch> that's special
[05:29] <crimsun> ok, so we have specs. One way of drawing more people into the fray is to respond more quickly to these specs and to action them.
[05:29] <theCore> LaserJock: yeah, I was too
[05:29] <LaserJock> theCore: although I saw he's still going to maintain it in a 3rd party repo
[05:29] <crimsun> OTOH, the people who are actively writing specs are already technically inclined, so are they really "our" target?
[05:29] <theCore> nixternal: there's probably a lone [ somewhere in your menu.lst
[05:29] <nixternal> well there are a bunch of them now, and why all of a sudden it would happen
[05:30] <theCore> LaserJock: really? do you got the URL to it?
[05:30] <bddebian> We don't the the "staff" to handle bugs, merges, and new packages, how are we supposed handle additional "stuff"?
[05:30] <nixternal> 1;31m# altoptions0m=(recovery mode) single
[05:30] <crimsun> bddebian: TBH, I haven't "tapped" the forum.
[05:30] <nixternal> looks like it started right there with the corruption
[05:30] <crimsun> can we pull the more technically inclined forum posters into our fray?
[05:31] <Hobbsee> but there would be some that dont, yes.
[05:31] <LaserJock> theCore: http://emacs.orebokech.com/ 
[05:32] <theCore> thanks LaserJock
[05:32] <nixternal> pull me into the frey, give me a mentor and let me flap my wings
[05:32] <nixternal> or gums, whatever comes first ;p
[05:32] <crimsun> I may well be misled, but I think that the vast majority of forum posters aren't involved in Ubuntu universe maintenance.
[05:32] <mohammad> Hello, I have uploaded package zekr to revu but after 1 hour it does not show up at http://revu.tauware.de/ yet
[05:32] <Hobbsee> crimsun: that'd be accurate
[05:32] <Hobbsee> mohammad: have you added yourself to the link in the /topic?
[05:32] <bddebian> Yes he's uploaded it before iirc
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:33] <ajmitch> mohammad: using a new key?
[05:33] <mohammad> yes
[05:34] <mohammad> a new key
[05:34] <bddebian> ahh
[05:34] <ajmitch> figures..
[05:35] <LaserJock> well, I'm sure it wouldn't go over very well, but I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of moratorium on NEW packages for a release
[05:36] <mohammad> ajmitch I used my previous email but with a new key
[05:36] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you mean sticking to a freeze?
[05:36] <ajmitch> mohammad: your new key is on launchpad, right?
[05:36] <LaserJock> ajmitch: saying, "we aren't doing any REVU for Feisty+1", essentially
[05:37] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ah, then I'd have to upload new packages anyway :)
[05:37] <mohammad> yes I have added it to lunchpad around 3 hours ago
[05:37] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, it'd be hard to control as there are new packages needed for specs, etc.
[05:37] <nixternal> oh I am scared, this is what I get for upgrading the kernel right before my presentation tomorrow
[05:37] <nixternal> son of a ....Error 15: File not found
[05:38] <theCore> is hard/long to fix these: http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html?
[05:38] <ajmitch> theCore: depends
[05:38] <theCore> I got a long weekend, I might be able to help out 
[05:38] <ajmitch> check for outstanding sync requests before you touch a package
[05:39] <ajmitch> plenty of them were just UVF exceptions+sync requests
[05:39] <theCore> I just need to figure out what to do exactly
[05:39] <ajmitch> fix bugs :)
[05:40] <ajmitch> the list is just a version comparison, using the set of packages in debian that have closed RC bugs
[05:40] <bddebian> Hell, just triage bugs.  I see we still have close to 5000 unconfirmed bugs alone :'-(
[05:40] <ajmitch> so generally we either want the fix from debian, or the equivalent
[05:40] <nixternal> theCore: well that kernel upgrade killed my machine
[05:41] <ajmitch> bddebian: doesn't it give you that warm & fuzzy feeling?
[05:41] <theCore> nixternal: ouch...
[05:41] <mohammad> if I upload it again I get this error: 
[05:41] <mohammad> rejected by the upload queue management software.
[05:41] <mohammad> Uploading via ftp zekr_0.5.0-0ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of zekr_0.5.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
[05:41] <mohammad> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
[05:41] <mohammad>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
[05:41] <mohammad>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
[05:41] <ajmitch> mohammad: be patient, please
[05:41] <bddebian> ajmitch: No :-(
[05:41] <nixternal> ya, I have to give an Ubuntu presentation in 8 hours
[05:41] <mohammad> ok sorry 
[05:41] <theCore> nixternal: can I see your grub/menu.lst 
[05:41] <ajmitch> the keyring sync is still going
[05:41] <crimsun> nixternal: either rescue from an alternate cd, or chroot from a desktop cd
[05:42] <nixternal> I would love to show it off, but it is dead right now, I am going to chroot in and take a look
[05:42] <theCore> nixternal: have fun...
[05:42] <nixternal> I have never had luck with the rescue from an alternate cd
[05:42] <nixternal> but then again I haven't tried that in a while
[05:43] <theCore> nixternal: tip: mount your Ubuntu partition on /mnt, bind /dev and /sys to /mnt/{dev,sys}, and then chroot /mnt
[05:44] <nixternal> I am trying the rescue first
[05:44] <nixternal> see if that fixes it
[05:45] <LaserJock> nixternal: you could also just edit the grub menu item ;-)
[05:45] <ajmitch> LaserJock: too easy
[05:45] <crimsun> remember, rich loves Vista. pointy n' clicky!
[05:45] <crimsun> :-)
[05:45] <nixternal> haha
[05:45] <ajmitch> heh
[05:45] <nixternal> damnit, I am buying it tomorrow!
[05:45] <LaserJock> well, it does have tab-complete
[05:46] <nixternal> Vista is way better than GNOME any day!
[05:46] <bddebian> Vista blows and I'm not even a MS hater :-)
[05:46] <crimsun> ok seriously, what we're experiencing is analogous to the math & science downturn in US universities
[05:46] <nixternal> my menu.lst looks fine
[05:46] <nixternal> root (hd0,0)
[05:46] <crimsun> so we need to do some serious outreach
[05:47] <crimsun> jono has mentioned blogging. How seriously do people read planet.uc?
[05:47] <ajmitch> crimsun: we've made ubuntu too easy for people to use?
[05:47] <LaserJock> crimsun: sure, but do we have time?
[05:47] <nixternal> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-14-generic root=UUID=blahblahblah-blahblahblah-blah-blah ro quiet splash
[05:47] <LaserJock> when I post on planet I generally get ~ 5000 hits
[05:47] <LaserJock> heh
[05:48] <LaserJock> if you have something really interesting to say you can probably get much more
[05:48] <LaserJock> my blog posts aren't that great
[05:48] <LaserJock> but yeah, blogging more
[05:48] <LaserJock> we *could* try to have a subforum or something on ubuntuforums
[05:49] <LaserJock> there is already a packaging subforum hidden deep down in there
[05:49] <theCore> so, Ubuntu is losing momentum?
[05:49] <crimsun> theCore: absolutely, we're doomed.
[05:49] <ajmitch> theCore: everyone's jumping ship for debian, you know
[05:49] <theCore> ahh! what we gonna do! 
[05:49] <crimsun> we should give up and just eat girl scout cookies now
[05:49] <ajmitch> panic
[05:50] <bddebian> w00t
[05:50] <sharms> crimsun: already doing that
[05:50] <bddebian> But what if I don't like Girl Scout cookies?
[05:50] <LaserJock> theCore: not so  much losing momentum as growing without scaling the dev community
[05:50] <theCore> eat Ubuntu cookies?
[05:50] <ajmitch> "Don't Panic"
[05:51] <sharms> thats the problem with so many distros, and a limited free-help talent pool
[05:51] <ajmitch> sharms: grow the pool
[05:51] <theCore> hmm... not a bad idea...
[05:51] <sharms> ajmitch: I cant even get momentum on my bash spec, how in the world can i grow a talent pool
[05:51] <LaserJock> we have to take  temporary hit to do it thoough
[05:51] <LaserJock> lol, he did it
[05:52] <LaserJock> he got in his mention ;-)
[05:52] <theCore> sharms: bash-spec?
[05:52] <crimsun> LaserJock: ok, let's say there's a MOTU forum in UF. What would be its focus(ii)?
[05:52] <sharms> theCore: glad you asked! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
[05:52] <theCore> sharms: that Pg-[Up,Down]  thingy?
[05:52] <sharms> theCore: yup!
[05:52] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, hopefully growing MOTU and getting people excited. However, I expect it to turn into a free-for-all grudge match
[05:52] <sharms> what I want to know is, if I provide a debdiff, will anyone pay attention more?
[05:53] <crimsun> there is something immensely comical about sharms attempting to push his spec, I must admit.
[05:53] <LaserJock> sharms: it would be all good and well if it wasn't PgUp and PgDown, I use those already ;-)
[05:53] <sharms> LaserJock: out of curiosity what are the bound to?
[05:54] <sharms> crimsun: I have tried to throw some humor in rather than be blatantly annoying
[05:54] <LaserJock> sharms: it honestly seems so trivial I don't really expect to get much attention
[05:54] <LaserJock> sharms: for me it's always been going up and down in the terminal scrollback
[05:54] <Fujitsu> And it's got nothing at all to do with us.
[05:55] <sharms> LaserJock: it still does go up and down in terminal scroll back, as long as the line is blank
[05:55] <sharms> LaserJock: if line is blank, behave normal.  If line has text, try and match
[05:55] <theCore> sharms: anyway, I wonder why you're still using bash. If you're looking power-shell usage, there
[05:55] <theCore> there's zsh you know
[05:56] <sharms> theCore: its just amazingly intuitive and I want to share it
[05:56] <LaserJock> sharms: ok, whatever, sounds like a wishlist bug
[05:56] <sharms> right, I am just wondering how I can actually get it in
[05:56] <LaserJock> I'm not against it by anymeans
[05:56] <sharms> I have a feeling my debdiffs will get ignored
[05:56] <theCore> sharms: Up and Down do the same thing
[05:56] <LaserJock> well, there's not much we can do about that
[05:57] <LaserJock> theCore: no they don't
[05:57] <theCore> LaserJock: sure?
[05:57] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:57] <LaserJock> Up and Down just go through the histry
[05:57] <sharms> right which is why I am trying to figure out how someone goes about this, and asking for help
[05:57] <LaserJock> his PgUp searches the histry
[05:57] <theCore> search?
[05:58] <LaserJock> sharms: file a wishlist bug against bash, attach a debdiff
[05:58] <theCore> I am missing something, I think...
[05:58] <LaserJock> I guess
[05:58] <sharms> theCore: say you type "ss" in the command line.  Hit page up and it will match the last command that started with ss, like "ssh sharms@sharms.org"
[05:58] <LaserJock> it's like doing Ctrl-r
[05:58] <theCore> sharms: yeah, Up/Down does this
[05:59] <theCore> sharms: by default
[05:59] <sharms> theCore: not if you are running ubuntu
[05:59] <crimsun> yeah, ^r is somewhat similar
[05:59] <theCore> sharms: I am running Ubuntu ...
[05:59] <sharms> ^r should be identical 
[05:59] <sharms> theCore: then you are just misunderstanding 
[05:59] <theCore> sharms: test it
[05:59] <sharms> I did! On 3 boxes since you said that
[06:00] <theCore> oh, wait ...
[06:00] <theCore> no, it works
[06:00] <sharms> ok yeah its ctrl-r but easier to use
[06:00] <theCore> somehow
[06:00] <sharms> the up key does not do the action i propose
[06:01] <sharms> I promise you
[06:01] <theCore> it just doesn't use the history file
[06:01] <LaserJock> Up/Down just cycles through the history
[06:02] <LaserJock> ctrl-r searches
[06:05] <nixternal> this sucks
[06:05] <theCore> ahh
[06:05] <theCore> I see the difference
[06:05] <nixternal> none of the options are working
[06:05] <theCore> I remember it, now
[06:05] <sharms> nixternal: in what?
[06:06] <nixternal> the latest kernel upgrade killed grub
[06:06] <nixternal> Grub Error 15: File not found
[06:06] <nixternal> and grub looks correct
[06:07] <sharms> livecd bootso k?
[06:07] <nixternal> yes
[06:07] <ajmitch> grub has lovely tab completion in its shell\
[06:07] <sharms> did you have a splash image?
[06:08] <nixternal> yup
[06:08] <sharms> is it still in its location?
[06:08] <theCore> sharms: so, Up/Down just history complete, with history-search-backward, you can scroll back
[06:09] <sharms> theCore: yup and it is amazingly functional and useful, and increases productivity 10x or more
[06:09] <sharms> that might be an exaggeration.
[06:09] <theCore> sharms: eh, yeah
[06:09] <theCore> sharms: I had it my old .inputrc
[06:10] <theCore> sharms: but, I bound it to Up/Down instead of Pg-Up/Down
[06:10] <nixternal> ajmitch: tab completion greets me with "not found"
[06:11] <sharms> theCore: there is some comment about that on the Spec, I am not dead-set on page-up page-down, but there is a huge base of users already using it that way
[06:12] <theCore> sharms: and btw, these "magic" commands, in .inputrc, are bash-specific 
[06:12] <sharms> all I know is they work with our default shell
[06:12] <theCore> sharms: they should be wrap in a $if Bash 
[06:12] <theCore> wrapped*
[06:13] <sharms> so check the SHELL variable
[06:13] <sharms> ?
[06:13] <nixternal> theCore: how do I bind the /dev and /sys to /mnt{dev,sys}?
[06:13] <Fujitsu> nixternal: mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev
[06:13] <sharms> is inputrc just a shell script?
[06:13] <nixternal> gotcha
[06:13] <theCore> nixternal:  mount --bind /dev/ /mnt/dev
[06:14] <theCore> sharms: no
[06:14] <theCore> sharms: that's my .inputrc http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14336/
[06:15] <sharms> great
[06:15] <nixternal> hrmm, theCore I have my /boot on /dev/sda1 so that is the one to mount correct?
[06:15] <theCore> nixternal: yep
[06:15] <nixternal> and now bind
[06:16] <theCore> nixternal: I fixed a broken grub, not so long ago
[06:16] <nixternal> mkdir /mnt/dev first :)
[06:17] <theCore> nixternal: I booted the rescue disk, took a shell with Alt-Ctrl-F1, mounted my drive, and then bam! I fixed it
[06:17] <nixternal> OK, everything is done, what shall I look at first?
[06:19] <theCore> nixternal: first repair the menu.lst
[06:19] <sharms> nixternal: that error means your just missing a file somewhere
[06:20] <theCore> nixternal: make sure your grub/device.map is correct too
[06:20] <nixternal> menu.lst looks good to me
[06:20] <nixternal> (hd0) /dev/sda
[06:21] <nixternal> that looks good
[06:21] <theCore> nixternal: can you post it? 
[06:21] <nixternal> sure
[06:22] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14337/
[06:22] <theCore> nixternal: that's it?
[06:23] <nixternal> that is the bottom half, you want it all?
[06:24] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14338/
[06:24] <nixternal> there it is
[06:24] <theCore> nixternal: thanks
[06:25] <ajmitch> nixternal: you said you had a separate /boot?
[06:25] <nixternal> yes
[06:26] <nixternal> /dev/sda1
[06:26] <nixternal> I have /boot, /, /home, and swap
[06:26] <ajmitch> then all the kernel & initrd lines are wrong, and shouldn't have /boot in them
[06:26] <theCore> nixternal: it looks ok
[06:26] <ajmitch> eg mine is:
[06:26] <ajmitch> kernel          /vmlinuz-2.6.20-13-generic root=/dev/mapper/ubuntu-root ro quiet splash
[06:26] <ajmitch> initrd          /initrd.img-2.6.20-13-generic
[06:27] <theCore> ajmitch: nope, I think that's something specific to your system
[06:27] <ajmitch> theCore: unlikely
[06:27] <theCore> ajmitch: I got the /boot
[06:28] <theCore> ajmitch: using LVM?
[06:28] <ajmitch> yes
[06:28] <ajmitch> it's the same on etch that I installed last night
[06:28] <crimsun> ajmitch: do you have to pass "break=mount" to lilo?
[06:28] <theCore> ajmitch: that's probably why, anyway it is not the problem 
[06:28] <ajmitch> crimsun: not for my laptop
[06:29] <ajmitch> crimsun: I haven't rebooted my desktop box for ~2 months
[06:29] <crimsun> ah.
[06:29] <ajmitch> and I don't use lilo
[06:29] <crimsun> yeah, noting the syntax above
[06:29] <ajmitch> it *ought* to be sorted out now, with LVM+RAID
[06:30] <crimsun> apparently initramfs is way too fast for my pokey hardware
[06:30] <crimsun> like on the order of 10 seconds
[06:30] <theCore> nixternal: try regenerating the menu.lst
[06:30] <theCore> nixternal: with update-grub
[06:30] <theCore> nixternal: then post the new menu.lst again
[06:31] <Fujitsu> The /boot being there is definitely the problem.
[06:31] <Fujitsu> So running update-grub is unlikely to fix it.
[06:32] <nixternal> argh, chroot isn't workin' no /bin/sh
[06:32] <Fujitsu> nixternal: You need to have /boot mounted inside /.
[06:33] <theCore> Fujitsu: the file in / are just symlinks to the ones in /boot
[06:33] <nixternal> I have /boot mounted inside of /mnt
[06:33] <Fujitsu> You need the /boot mounted inside your normal /.
[06:33] <nixternal> cannot change root directory to /mnt: Operation not permitted
[06:34] <Fujitsu> theCore: But with a separate /boot, there is no /boot in that partition.
[06:34] <Fujitsu> nixternal: sudo
[06:34] <theCore> nixternal: do you use one main partition?
[06:34] <theCore> or you have separate /boot partition?
[06:34] <nixternal> /boot       /      /home    
[06:34] <nixternal> i have a seperate boot
[06:35] <theCore> oh, well
[06:35] <theCore> that's different
[06:35] <Fujitsu> He did say that earlier, I believe.
[06:35] <theCore> ah, yeah. I missed it
[06:38] <nixternal> alrighty then
[06:38] <theCore> but, if it worked before ... why the /boot would be a problem?
[06:38] <Fujitsu> I don't know, but I had the same thing on a Dapper machine a couple of months ago.
[06:39] <Fujitsu> The /boot part just appeared after a kernel upgrade.
[06:39] <nixternal> yup, remove /boot/
[06:39] <nixternal> so it seems
[06:39] <nixternal> yup
[06:39] <nixternal> that fixed it
[06:39] <nixternal> ajmitch: I owe you a drink
[06:39] <Fujitsu> How strange that it got put there.
[06:39] <nixternal> gimme your email address, I will email it to you ;p
[06:40] <ajmitch> hah
[06:40] <ajmitch> nixternal: or just attend UDS :)
[06:40] <nixternal> I can't this go round, school is in the way
[06:40] <ajmitch> a shame
[06:40] <LaserJock> I thought most /boot dirs had a symlink to ../boot
[06:40] <nixternal> yes it is, but I need to finish my schooling before I am 50
[06:41] <ajmitch> UDS is where drink credits for the last 6 months are traded ;)
[06:41] <LaserJock> so it wouldn't matter if you had / or /boot
[06:41] <Lathiat> does anyone know if you create a new thing in /etc/event.d for upstart how to tell it to start now rather than like reboot to make the normal events trigger
[06:41] <nixternal> sharms: I think your tricks has booged the tab complete, one tab gives me a list of junk
[06:42] <theCore> anyway, you can't really edit it directly or you will get the same problem again, after every kernel update...
[06:42] <theCore> nixternal: can you still get to the grub menu, or it fails before that?
[06:43] <nixternal> heh, update-grub destroys it again
[06:43] <nixternal> so, with that being said, don't upgrade the kernel
[06:43] <sharms> nixternal: pastebin the session
[06:46] <nixternal> ya, I cannot run update-grub at all, it hoses my system
[06:47] <theCore> that /boot thing is weird ... I wonder what difference does it make
[06:47] <nixternal> it starts messing up /boot/grub/menu.lst at the # altoptions
[06:48] <crimsun> Lathiat: kill 1
[06:48] <crimsun> same for any changes to an upstart script
[06:48] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14339/
[06:49] <theCore> okay ... what these escape codes do there??? 
[06:50] <theCore> I guess update-grub wants to colourize you grub :)
[06:51] <theCore> er, you -> your
[06:51] <nixternal> omg
[06:51] <nixternal> that is what it is, it is sharms little scipts
[06:52] <nixternal> !!#@#@
[06:52] <Fujitsu> It seems to be getting the path right this time.
[06:52] <sharms> nixternal: update-grub is a bash script I assume?
[06:52] <Fujitsu> The grep colourisation line made my terminal go somewhat silly.
[06:52] <theCore> oups
[06:52] <sharms> ha
[06:53] <theCore> evil sharms
[06:53] <sharms> my change is the page-up page-down, the other changes are just ones people have suggested
[06:53] <ajmitch> nixternal: ah, what wonderful breakage ;)
[06:53] <Fujitsu> I think we should add all of these to the default installation!
[06:53] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: obviously
[06:53] <Fujitsu> Like beryl.
[06:54] <sharms> ajmitch: no its the --color=auto     appended to the end of grep 
[06:54] <sharms> not the prompt
[06:54] <sharms> nixternal: do you have grub --color=auto   or always
[06:54] <Fujitsu> I added it when it was --color=always, and then the world exploded.
[06:54] <nixternal> always
[06:54] <Fujitsu> Changed it to auto, and all is now good.
[06:54] <sharms> switch it to auto
[06:54] <sharms> always is a bug
[06:54] <Fujitsu> It went /crazy/.
[06:54] <nixternal> I have commented it out, but it still killed update-grub
[06:54] <theCore> nixternal: did made the changes in /etc/inputrc ?
[06:55] <Fujitsu> nixternal: You'll need to open a new terminal or rerun your .bashrc.
[06:55] <nixternal> no ~/.bashrc
[06:55] <nixternal> brb
[06:55] <nixternal> source ~/.bashrc isn't good enough?
[06:55] <sharms> I know I should feel bad, but it is kind of funny
[06:55] <Fujitsu> That should do it.
[06:55] <nixternal> sharms: I owe you one ;p
[06:55] <sharms> haha
[06:55] <theCore> it is wonderful how today discussions are related?
[06:55] <theCore> :)
[06:56] <LaserJock> my gosh, emacs is a mess
[06:56] <theCore> really?
[06:56] <LaserJock> reading the debian list
[06:57] <theCore> link?
[06:57] <LaserJock> emacs-snapshot is gone
[06:57] <Fujitsu> Does always not bother to check if it's a path or something?
[06:57] <theCore> hmm...
[06:57] <LaserJock> then several other packages have to have their manuals stripped
[06:57] <Fujitsu> That's emacs' job, LaserJock.
[06:57] <Fujitsu> Non-freeness?
[06:57] <LaserJock> yeah, GFDL
[06:57] <LaserJock> I wonder if FSF is trying to kill Debian or the other way around
[06:58] <theCore> what a joke
[06:58] <Fujitsu> What is it that makes the GFDL non-DFSG-free?
[06:58] <theCore> that's certainly an insult to the upstream developers
[06:58] <LaserJock> there is a section on invariant sections
[06:58] <LaserJock> GFDL is not GPL compatible
[06:59] <ajmitch> http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html
[06:59] <theCore> not GPL compatible?
[06:59] <theCore> you mean DFSG, no?
[06:59] <LaserJock> no
[06:59] <theCore> wtf...
[07:00] <theCore> why FSF would make their documentation license incompatible with their software?
[07:00] <sharms> because they want the BSD guys to look more rational
[07:00] <ajmitch> because the people who matter at the FSF have a different view of documentation
[07:02] <theCore> LaserJock: can I have a link to the thread in question?
[07:02] <LaserJock> theCore: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen
[07:02] <theCore> thanks 
[07:03] <LaserJock> they're fighting amongts themselves and upstream about Emacs22
[07:03] <LaserJock> and in the end the emacs-snapshot maintainer just decides to quit
[07:03] <sharms> oh I know what happened with Emacs documentation.  They made my bash changes and it fubar'd it up
[07:04] <LaserJock> anyway, I wonder if how this will get resolved
[07:04] <nixternal> thanks sharms :)
[07:04] <LaserJock> as it is it seems like emacs may end up going to non-free
[07:04] <nixternal> I set it to =auto and it works fine
[07:04] <LaserJock> or the manuals will get stripped, which is pretty stupid
[07:04] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yay
[07:05] <crimsun> keybuk won't be happy, as he's an emacs user
[07:05] <ajmitch> hi Burgundavia 
[07:05] <ajmitch> crimsun: I use emacs a lot as well
[07:05] <sharms> nixternal: ha my bash changes are ALPHA :)
[07:05] <nixternal> not even, more like Microsoft ;p
[07:05] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[07:05] <Burgundavia> crimsun: is there a known issue with xine crashing with dvds?
[07:05] <LaserJock> it's just stupid, I thought GFDL was dfsg-free as long as it didn't contain any invariant sections
[07:06] <crimsun> Burgundavia: err, do you mean xine-ui crashing on $certain dvds, or libxine?
[07:06] <Burgundavia> crimsun: everything
[07:06] <Burgundavia> xine, gxine, totem-xine, all crashing the same way
[07:07] <theCore> so, where are the hackers at Debian are gone...
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Everybody will just have to use vim. How terrible.
[07:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: well there was a GR about it :)
[07:08] <ajmitch> http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001#outcome
[07:09] <crimsun> Burgundavia: ok, I experienced that symptom continually until the region was set (to something other than 0) on newer hardware
[07:12] <crimsun> Burgundavia: so I presume that the symptom means that the region on that dvd hardware is indeed set?
[07:14] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah
[07:14] <nixternal> OK, back up and rocking
[07:15] <nixternal> theCore, Fujitsu, and ajmitch thanks for that one, and sharms fooey~
[07:15] <nixternal> ;p
[07:15] <nixternal> great AOL face there
[07:15] <LaserJock> I found it, apparently emacs contains FDL docs *with* invariant sections :/
[07:15] <nixternal> Kate rules them all
[07:15] <sharms> nixternal: thanks for being a good alpha tester
[07:15] <nixternal> haha
[07:15] <nixternal> a Microsoft tester is more like it
[07:16] <minghua> So basically emacs-snapshot's maintainer doesn't want to drop GFDL licensed manual from his package and therefore orphaned it?  Strange decision.
[07:16] <sharms> they rejected my bash changes
[07:16] <nixternal> now I know what Vista users have been feeling for 2 months
[07:16] <Fujitsu> Hey minghua.
[07:16] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that thread about moving emacs to non-free was from october
[07:17] <Lathiat> crimsun: and it restarts itself?
[07:17] <Lathiat> crimsun: ok thanks
[07:17] <Lathiat> crimsun: killing init used to be frowned upon :P
[07:17] <nixternal> moving emacs to non-free?
[07:17] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:17] <LaserJock> minghua: basically he'd either have to move emacs to non-free or strip it of documentation
[07:17] <Lathiat> who needs documentation anyway
[07:18] <LaserJock> he decided to give up completely and orphan it and ask that it be removed from the archives
[07:18] <LaserJock> well, apparently there are a few commands that don't work without the documentation, go figure
[07:20] <nixternal> LaserJock: what do you mean by moving emacs to non-free? I was busy breaking my system to follow, then got disconnected
[07:21] <LaserJock> nixternal: the emacs documentation is GFDL with some invariant sections, so DFSG non-free
[07:22] <LaserJock> so they were trying to figure out whether to keep it together and move the whole thing to non-free (and hence no in Debian)
[07:22] <LaserJock> or split out the documenation and put just that into non-free
[07:22] <LaserJock> looks like they did the latter
[07:22] <nixternal> that is nuts
[07:22] <nixternal> what is invariant about the sections?
[07:23] <nixternal> GNU/Debian will have Stallman laid out in the lawn naked if they do that
[07:23] <LaserJock> apparently they have something like the GPL or something
[07:23] <Fujitsu> Why are there invariant sections in the docs? I'd say that would very obviously be non-free.
[07:23] <LaserJock> and obviously they can't make that variant
[07:23] <crimsun> nixternal: that's an awful mental pic
[07:23] <nixternal> crimsun: that it is
[07:24] <nixternal> I just made myself sick
[07:25] <nixternal> oh wow, there is a post in the Debian Weekly News from 2003 that states exactly that
[07:26] <Fujitsu> nixternal: Link?
[07:26] <nixternal> http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2003/22/
[07:26] <nixternal> http://lists.debian.org/debian-emacsen/2003/05/msg00033.html
[07:26] <nixternal> that is the original email
[07:29] <ajmitch> all old news
[07:29] <nixternal> ya, almost 4 years old
[07:37] <LaserJock> bah, that's the kind of stuff I'm just not great with
[07:37] <LaserJock> I'm all for freedom and open source, but geeze that gets on my nerves
[07:43] <ajmitch> you're obviously not a True Believer
[07:44] <LaserJock> ajmitch: certainly not
[07:45] <LaserJock> well, I think I'm off to bed
[07:45] <LaserJock> hopefully I'll have energy to show up again tomorrow
[07:45] <LaserJock> it seems to be getting harder and harder each day
[07:46] <zakame> hello
[07:46] <crimsun> LaserJock: take the weekend off if you need it
[07:47] <Laser_away> maybe
[07:47] <crimsun> burning out on F/LOSS isn't healthy, either.
[07:53] <nixternal> tell me about it
[07:53] <nixternal> I am doing the crimsun right now, only a few hours until I start driving to the city, preparing for a talk, gettin' ready to win the botd
[07:53] <nixternal> fun fun fun
[08:28] <macogw> hey, i'm trying to learn to package, and i looked at the "requests" list and found a program i want to try packaging.  the last tarball for it is a year old, but there was a bug-fix a month ago in CVS.  how do i get the proper files from the cvs to use for it?
[08:33] <RAOF> macogw: You've got two options.  You can take the last release, and add the patch from CVS as a part of the build process.
[08:34] <RAOF> Alternatively, you can just checkout the CVS and build a package from that.
[08:34] <RAOF> I *think* that the former method would be preferred, but you'd want to check with people who actually know first :)
[08:34] <crimsun> yes, generally in that case, the former is preferred. It really depends on what has changed in cvs.
[08:35] <macogw> the tar is 0.7 and the cvs is up to 1.12 so i'd assume there would be quite a few patches using the former way
[08:36] <crimsun> oh, so "a bug-fix" is really a bug fix release?
[08:36] <crimsun> I interpreted "a bug-fix" as a single fix.
[08:36] <crimsun> or are you referring to the changeset id?
[08:37] <crimsun> more context would help...
[08:37] <macogw> well the most recent bug fix was a month ago, but i just looked at the setup.py which is commented as "version number increase" and it's 1.12
[08:38] <macogw> the last tarball was 0.7 so i'm guessin there's a lot of in-betweens that happened
[08:39] <macogw> ok actually i can see a bunch of changes
[08:40] <macogw> so if there's a lot of stuff that changed, would it be best to grab the newest of each source file and put them all in a directory as if they were being unzipped?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> crimsun: yes, correct region, plays fine on a windows laptop and with totem-gstreamer, just causes xine to crash
[09:22] <crimsun> Burgundavia: which version of libdvdcss2?
[09:22] <crimsun> hopefully 1.2.9
[09:23] <Burgundavia> yep, from mediubuntu
[09:24] <crimsun> do you have the retraced reports?
[09:25] <Burgundavia> nah, haven't submitted a bug yet
[09:26] <Burgundavia> crimsun: http://pastebin.ca/428075
[09:27] <crimsun> does ejecting the disc and reloading help?
[09:27] <Burgundavia> nope
[09:28] <crimsun> tried a different drive?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> laptop
[09:30] <crimsun> it's likely crashing inside libdvd*
[09:30] <macogw> Burgundavia: wait are you talking about when dvds sometimes randomly partway through a movie crash libdvdcss/libdvdread and then it pops up telling you that the dvd must have encryption so you should go install those libraries even though they're already installed?
[09:31] <crimsun> no, this is on start.
[09:31] <macogw> oh
[09:31] <Burgundavia> macogw: naw, just completely dying
[09:31] <Burgundavia> segfaulting
[09:31] <macogw> i wonder if there's a bug report for what i described
[09:32] <macogw> tried playing Dogma on Rav Tux (on the ubuntuforums) computer and it did that consistently about 2 minutes into the movie.  usually i can eject, start over, and get it working on my laptop
[09:34] <macogw> Burgundavia: is this your bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/25554
[09:34] <ubotu> Malone bug 25554 in totem "totem locks immediately when a dvd is inserted in another dvd reader." [Medium,Fix released]  
[09:35] <macogw> oh nevermind
[09:35] <macogw> that's really old
[09:36] <Burgundavia> nope, and this is a xine/dvdread/libcss bug, not a frontend specifici one
[09:41] <macogw> Burgundavia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/508 ?
[09:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 508 in mplayer "Crashes when loading DVD" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[09:42] <macogw> it was from hoary, workarounded for a while, came back in edgy, and now theyre asking if it exists in feisty
[09:43] <macogw> ack no nvm
[09:43] <macogw> i need to learn to read better
[09:43] <Burgundavia> hmm, nope
[09:43] <macogw> or sleep more than 2 hours a night ;)
[09:43] <macogw> one guy said it was present in xine, but others said its mplayer-only
[09:58] <joejaxx> anyone here have experience with reprepro?
[11:26] <stgraber> About bug 85640, shall I wait for more people confirming the package or can I go, attach the debdiff and ask someone to upload ?
[11:26] <ubotu> Malone bug 85640 in cryptsetup "[Feisty]  crypted root doesnt mount on start (cryptsetup)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85640
[11:27] <stgraber> (As we are coming pretty close to the release date and it's just a two lines patch to a init.d script)
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Seems to be /really/ reliable on Ubuntu.
[11:33] <sacater> morning...
[12:26] <jekil> hello
[12:49] <soc> is there a place where i can see which packages are pending uvfe review?
[12:50] <stgraber> Maybe here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~motu-uvf/
[12:52] <soc> a thnaks!
[12:52] <soc> thanks
[01:04] <soc> are the bugs mentioned in http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html showstopper bugs or is there no priority to fix them before feisty?
[01:11] <soc> does someone know it?
[01:12] <DktrKranz> I think they are important bug which have to be fixed, don't know if they are showstopper, though
[01:14] <soc> mh
[01:14] <soc> ok
[01:14] <soc> because hard freeze is approaching quite quickly
[01:15] <DktrKranz> we are in main freeze, actually
[01:16] <DktrKranz> but if there is a valid reason, perhaps an exception will be granted
[01:16] <DktrKranz> I think this is the case, if critical bugs are solved
[01:32] <Lutin> hi there
[01:32] <DktrKranz> hi Lutin 
[01:33] <Lutin> hi DktrKranz 
[01:36] <Lutin> TheMuso: ping
[01:36] <TheMuso> Lutin: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[01:38] <ajmitch> heh
[01:40] <StevenK> TheMuso: You Mithrandir copycat.
[01:40] <Lutin> :] 
[01:47] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why does your RC bug list have those three mailcrypt ones on it?
[01:53] <ajmitch> ah that
[01:53] <ajmitch> cvs vs CVS
[03:29] <VirhYl3> Hi.  Are you guys going to get Urban Terror in Universe?
[03:29] <Hobbsee> no
[03:29] <VirhYl3> porque?
[03:29] <Hobbsee> if it's not there now, it wont be for feisty
[03:29] <Hobbsee> !feisty
[03:29] <ubotu> The next version of Ubuntu (7.04; codenamed "Feisty Fawn") should be released in April 2007. Beta is out! http://www.ubuntu.com/news/Ubuntu704Beta Schedule: !schedule - Specifications (goals): https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty - Help and support in #ubuntu+1 (NOT #ubuntu)
[03:30] <Hobbsee> bah.  the schedule's not in that anymore
[03:30] <VirhYl3> why not?
[03:30] <VirhYl3> It's probably the best FPS out right now, and it works in Ubuntu.
[03:31] <VirhYl3> I'd think you guys wanted something like that prioritized to work easily in synaptic for the n00bs.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> why not to which?  upstream version freeze, feature freeze, beta freeze, and the fact that no one has submitted a package to debian and ubuntu yet
[03:31] <Hobbsee> s#and#and/or#
[03:31] <Hobbsee> VirhYl3: if you want to get involved, you're welcome to.
[03:31] <VirhYl3> sure, how do I get involved?
[03:32] <VirhYl3> I'm good in the gimp.
[03:32] <Hobbsee> see the links in the topic
[03:33] <Hobbsee> VirhYl3: ideally, we'd have everything done for everything.  but seeing as we've got <30 active developers working on ubuntu...and thousands of packages....
[03:33] <Hobbsee> well, you do the maths
[03:33] <VirhYl3> I see.
[03:34] <VirhYl3> so what are the most important things being worked on atm?
[03:35] <Hobbsee> bugfixing
[03:35] <StevenK> *Release-critical* bugfixing
[03:35] <VirhYl3> lol, naturally.
[03:35] <Hobbsee> particualrly from the last link in the toipc, general bugfixing, making sure things are installable, etc.
[03:35] <Hobbsee> the big freeze is on the 12th, then we'll be testing cds, i think
[03:35] <StevenK> VirhYl3: We are 12 days from release, what do you expect?
[03:36] <Hobbsee> no new packages, no new versions of existing packages, etc.
[03:36] <VirhYl3> So if it's too late for Urban Terror, what's the next release that could have it in the repos?
[03:36] <VirhYl3> is there a room for that one?
[03:36] <StevenK> Feisty+1, whatever it's called
[03:36] <Hobbsee> feisty+1 if anyone submits it, and worsk with the MOTU to get it up to standard
[03:37] <VirhYl3> and submitting it is probably way over my head?
[03:37] <Hobbsee> !revu
[03:37] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[03:42] <shirish> Hobbsee: is there an announce list or something where one can come to know of packages coming onto universe, multiverse, I understand it might be a high-volume list
[03:43] <Hobbsee> lists.ubuntu.com/feisty-changes is all the changes in the archive
[03:43] <Hobbsee> dont think there's a sync list
[03:43] <Hobbsee> the ubuntu-motu ML usually says the new packages coming into the distro release, but doesnt talk about the stuff coming from debian
[03:44] <shirish> Hobbsee: I have subscribed to feisty-changes incidentally
[03:45] <StevenK> It isn't going to help you much at this point.
[03:45] <StevenK> Feisty is not going to have many changes this close to release.
[03:46] <shirish> StevenK: that I know now, its so boring when everything is sorta working
[03:46] <Hobbsee> also, the UWN tends to cover some of the more important new packages
[03:47] <StevenK> I suspect so
[03:47] <StevenK> ubuntu-archive might start disliking you. :-)
[03:47] <Hobbsee> pity.  i'd like to see the new ksudoku.
[03:47] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:47] <StevenK> Hobbsee: And sync it where? /dev/null?
[03:47] <Hobbsee> better not have that, seeing as i'll meet a lot of them in spain
[03:48] <StevenK> Heh
[03:48] <Hobbsee> to feisty+1 archives.  of course.
[03:48] <StevenK> Which don't exist.
[03:48] <StevenK> Ubuntu Weekly News
[03:48] <StevenK> Do the math
[03:48] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yet.
[03:49] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes. Yet.
[03:49] <shirish> StevenK: its a newsletter or what?
[03:49] <shirish> !UWN
[03:49] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uwn - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[03:49] <shirish> @uwn
[03:50] <StevenK> shirish: Yes.
[03:50] <shirish> link please
[03:50] <Hobbsee> jfgi.com
[03:50] <StevenK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/
[03:51] <Hobbsee> oh, argh.  that doesnt still exist
[03:51] <StevenK> Muahaha
[03:51] <shirish> oops, I have also subscribed to that one & also read that
[03:51] <Hobbsee> you need the elongated form.
[03:54] <shirish> guys although this might not be the place to ask for it or not, but is apport going to have new features, or it would just be bug-fixing from now on and any new features in 6 months time?
[04:43] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:51] <ScottK> Heya bddebian
[04:52] <bddebian> Hi ScottK
[05:04] <joejaxx> bddebian2: do you know why openhackware does not have any binary packages?
[05:05] <bddebian2> joejaxx: It's a PPC only package afaiui
[05:05] <joejaxx> bddebian2: oh
[05:05] <bddebian2> Sorry gotta run to the shower
[05:05] <joejaxx> ok
[05:09] <ScottK> We can still request syncs of a new Debian version (same upstream version) to fix bugs on ajmitch's RC bug list, right?
[05:15] <Hobbsee> ScottK: think so, yeah
[05:16] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[05:26] <ScottK> For anyone in UUS, Bug #104151 takes care of a bug on ajmitch's RC bug list.
[05:26] <ubotu> Malone bug 104151 in sa-exim "Sync Reqeust - sa-exim 4.2.1-7 from debian sid main" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104151
[05:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: done
[05:28] <ScottK> Thanks.
[05:28] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:30] <DktrKranz> does anyone know if motu-mentors list has been implemented?
[05:31] <Hobbsee> it hasnt as yet.  use this channel, or the standard MOTU ML
[05:31] <Hobbsee> no point having a separate list if the mentors hasnt taken off yet
[05:33] <DktrKranz> well, some times ago I was working on bug #93741
[05:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 93741 in mtop "[can-not-install]  maintainer script failure" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93741
[05:33] <DktrKranz> is there a chance to review it or it's too late?
[05:33] <DktrKranz> i forgot about it :(
[05:34] <Hobbsee> no, that should be fine
[05:35] <DktrKranz> good
[05:35] <DktrKranz> there are plenty of them
[05:35] <DktrKranz> so I can work on it
[05:35] <DktrKranz> many of them require a similar patch
[05:38] <shirish> Hobbsee:  is apport going to have new features, or it would just be bug-fixing from now on and any new features in 6 months time?
[05:38] <Hobbsee> no new features for *anything* now.
[05:39] <Hobbsee> shirish: therefore, no.
[05:39] <shirish> Hobbsee: so most probably it would remain broken for some-time to come
[05:39] <Hobbsee> dunno about how broken it is - looking at the bugtracker, it seems to be working very well
[05:41] <shirish> Hobbsee: I have filed 2 bugs for it, if those are acted upon it would be an excellent tool to use
[05:42] <sacater> whats the source unpackage command again? dpkg -x ?
[05:42] <sacater> or something
[05:43] <DktrKranz> dpkg-source -x filename.dsc
[05:44] <sacater> DktrKranz: thanks
[05:44] <shirish> Hobbsee: for e.g. see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/102868
[05:44] <DktrKranz> :)
[05:45] <ubotu> Malone bug 102868 in apport "apport should be mini-ftp client with resuming capabilities" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[05:46] <shirish> Hobbsee: as well as this one #103611
[05:46] <shirish> bug #103611
[05:46] <ubotu> Malone bug 103611 in launchpad "a progress bar on the site if uploading a crash file through firefox" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103611
[05:48] <shirish> Hobbsee: something totally un-related, in overview for launchpad I do not have the bug symbol but something called support tracker what does that mean?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> but has anyone noticed that this place is *not* one to get your unconfirmed bugs without patches more attention?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> neither is -bugs, etc?  especially during multiple freezes?
[06:12] <sacater> hee hee, this is me with a crazy look http://omploader.org/file/IMG_0589.JPG
[06:13] <sacater> and this is me with a little more sanity
[06:13] <sacater> http://omploader.org/file/IMG_0595.JPG
[06:26] <rmjb> Hey guys
[06:26] <wick2o> ive created my own deb that uses debconf...is there a way to use default values pulled from debconf settings other then whats listed in your templates file?
[06:26] <wick2o> for example if i want to read the netcfg/get_ipaddress and use it as a default value
[06:52] <cheleb> Hi everybody! Is this the right place to propose/request packages of new hardware drivers?
[06:54] <rmjb> cheleb: is the package available outside of the kernel? meaning can it be installed after the kernel or does it have to be bundled?
[06:55] <cheleb> rmjb: I think it is available outside the kernel.
[06:55] <cheleb> rmjb: http://www.avm.de/en/frame/frame.php?destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwebgw.avm.de%2Fdownload%2FDownload_en.jsp%3Flang%3Den%26os%3Dlinux%26product%3DFRITZ%21WLAN+USB+Stick%26category%3Dfritzbox
[06:55] <rmjb> you can file a "needs-packaging" bug https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[06:56] <cheleb> rmjb: It's a very popular USB Stick in Germany
[06:56] <cheleb> rmjb: ah, ok! I will do so! Thanks
[07:48] <LaserJock> any MOTUs around?
[07:56] <ScottK> LaserJock: Just you I guess?
[08:01] <LaserJock> ScottK: apparently
[08:01] <LaserJock> hmmm, you would do though, mwuahahaha
[08:03] <jussi01> shh... youll wake the sleeping motu...
[08:03] <LaserJock> ScottK: I need a victim/volunteer for a Behind MOTU post, you up for it?
[08:06] <ScottK> LaserJock: What does that involve (probably yes)?
[08:14] <sacater> LaserJock: if i can i will :D
[08:25] <ScottK> Well I can definitely tell we are in a hard freeze.  22 packages upgraded, 17 newly installed today </sarcasm>
[08:28] <LaserJock> ScottK: I'll send you an email with questions. Sometime today. I gotta run some errands
[08:29] <ScottK> LaserJock: No problem.  Depending on when I may not be able to answer until tomorrow if that's OK?
[08:29] <LaserJock> ScottK: fine, I don't have a tight deadline ;-)
[08:30] <ScottK> Great.  I'll look forward to it.
[08:30] <ScottK> Oh, scott@kitterman.com if you don't have it handy.
[08:31] <sacater> LaserJock: a while ago you linked me to a wiki page with feisty deadlines, what was it please
[08:31] <ScottK> !schedule
[08:31] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[08:32] <ScottK> sacater: Try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
[08:32] <sacater> thanks
[09:08] <jdong> is there a way to "turn off" a USB port in Linux?
[09:08] <jdong> like some magical sysfs value that tells the port not to respond to inserted devices?
[09:09] <ScottK> I've done up a merge to fix some of ajmitch's RC bugs if anyone from UUS is available/interested.  It's Bug #104215.
[09:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 104215 in python-numpy "python-numpy: Merge new debian version 1.0.1-8 from debian sid" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104215
[10:06] <ajmitch> morning
[10:12] <ScottK> Good morning
[10:13] <sharms> ajmitch: I did what you said and made a blog post to try and get more developers :)
[10:30] <bddebian> Heya gang
[10:33] <Burgundavia> hey bddebian
[10:33] <bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
[10:40] <ajmitch> hello bddebian, Burgundavia 
[10:40] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[10:41] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[11:09] <Adri2000> hi ajmitch
[11:09] <Adri2000> ajmitch: would you sponsor an upload to main for me?
[11:57] <sacater> where is the one they call pochu?