[12:56] <__Serge__> Hi
[12:56] <__Serge__> I have a question
[12:57] <__Serge__> I'm downloadinf ubuntu 7.04 BETA... but i've heard that this is not THE 7.04 version... it is a "BETA"... so, what is "BETA"?
[12:58] <__Serge__> hello?
[12:58] <crimsun> it's a beta.
[12:58] <__Serge__> what is beta?
[12:58] <crimsun> meaning, some things have changed since it was released
[12:58] <crimsun> the vast majority of infrastructure will not
[12:59] <crimsun> it's a testing version
[12:59] <__Serge__> so, it is like an un-complete version?
[12:59] <__Serge__> i see...
[12:59] <LaserJock> it's like a pre-release version
[12:59] <LaserJock> to let people test and work out the last bugs before the final release
[01:00] <__Serge__> then when the "real" or the "not beta" version will be available?
[01:00] <__Serge__> do u know the date?
[01:01] <crimsun> April 19th.
[01:01] <crimsun> see wiki/FeistyReleaseSchedule
[01:01] <__Serge__> nice...
[01:01] <__Serge__> ok.
[01:01] <__Serge__> one more thing
[01:01] <__Serge__> if i install the beta version
[01:02] <__Serge__> can i install the not beta version on it?
[01:02] <__Serge__> can i upgrade it with the not beta version?
[01:02] <crimsun> of course
[01:02] <crimsun> you don't even need to reinstall
[01:02] <__Serge__> really?
[01:02] <crimsun> you can just update the beta version to the final ("not beta" in your words) version
[01:02] <__Serge__> that's goood
[01:03] <__Serge__> well, thx 4 the info...
[01:03] <__Serge__> oh, wait... another thing
[01:04] <__Serge__> a long time ago, i installed... or i tried to install the 5.04 version...
[01:04] <__Serge__> it was horrible...
[01:04] <__Serge__> is this new version easier to install?
[01:05] <__Serge__> ...and easier to use and understand??
[01:05] <LaserJock> yes
[01:05] <crimsun> considerably
[01:05] <crimsun> blame LaserJock for any problems. It's all his fault!!
[01:06] <crimsun> (well, no, they're not his fault, but we have to find a scapegoat :-)
[01:06] <__Serge__> ubuntu 5.04 was my first experience with linux... i almost hate linux forever... lol... : )
[01:06] <LaserJock> crimsun: lol
[01:08] <__Serge__> now, a lot of people tells me that 7.04 will be awesome and easy to manage... i hope this is true...
[01:09] <__Serge__> Does 7.04 have open office?
[01:09] <LaserJock> of course
[01:09] <__Serge__> nice
[01:11] <__Serge__> Hey, one guy in this chat told me that ubuntu (linux) doesn't have virus... is that true????
[01:11] <__Serge__> is ubuntu invulnerable to viruses??
[01:12] <__Serge__> ??
[01:13] <LaserJock> well, to the vast majority of viruses it is
[01:13] <__Serge__> then i will not have to use norton of mcfee?
[01:13] <LaserJock> as many of the viruses are Windows executables or exploit Windows applications
[01:13] <__Serge__> or mcfee
[01:13] <LaserJock> no, although there are still antivirus programs in Linux if you wish
[01:14] <__Serge__> wow.... that's very cool
[01:14] <LaserJock> there are always security vulnerabilites with any Operating System
[01:14] <LaserJock> but so far I don't think Linux has seen anything like the Windows virus situation
[01:15] <__Serge__> i see...
[01:16] <__Serge__> hey... there r four kinds of ubuntu, right? ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, edubunto...
[01:16] <__Serge__> so...
[01:16] <LaserJock> yes, and many many other derivatives
[01:16] <__Serge__> what differences are betwen them?
[01:16] <__Serge__> for example, what has edubuntu that ubunto doesn't?
[01:17] <LaserJock> well, the different between ubuntu, kubuntu, and xubuntu is the desktop environment they use
[01:17] <LaserJock> they look and feel different
[01:17] <__Serge__> that's teh only diference?
[01:18] <LaserJock> well, it can be a fairly significant difference for some people
[01:18] <__Serge__> but, for example, gcc will work in any of them... right?
[01:18] <LaserJock> oh sure
[01:18] <LaserJock> all of the base stuff is the same
[01:18] <__Serge__> nice..
[01:18] <LaserJock> in fact they all come from the same software repositories
[01:18] <__Serge__> i seee
[01:18] <__Serge__> and tell me something
[01:18] <LaserJock> Edubuntu is a little different
[01:19] <LaserJock> because it's difference is in it's target audience and purpose
[01:19] <__Serge__> which one of this looks and operate like windows?
[01:19] <__Serge__> what's with edubuntu?
[01:19] <LaserJock> most people say Kubuntu is the closest to Windows, but I really don't know
[01:19] <LaserJock> Well, Edubuntu is for educational environments
[01:19] <__Serge__> ok.
[01:20] <__Serge__> educational?
[01:20] <__Serge__> what do u mean?
[01:20] <LaserJock> for young kids, schools, high schools, universities
[01:20] <__Serge__> for people who wants to learn about what?
[01:20] <__Serge__> aahhh... ok.
[01:21] <__Serge__> and xubuntu?
[01:22] <LaserJock> xubuntu is another desktop environment, XFCE4, which is better suited to older computers
[01:22] <__Serge__> you mean computers with no many RAM, CPU... etc.?
[01:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:23] <__Serge__> all right
[01:24] <__Serge__> Look, what i want is to have Win XP and ubuntu (or kubuntu, etc..) in the same computer...
[01:24] <__Serge__> so...
[01:24] <__Serge__> if i already have win XP installed there
[01:24] <__Serge__> can i now install ubuntu?
[01:25] <LaserJock> you can
[01:25] <LaserJock> you'll probably want to back up first, and resize your existing disk to make room unless you have a separate hard drive for it
[01:26] <sbalneav> LaserJock: You're going to be at both UES and UDS, right?
[01:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yes, i'll leave mid-way through UDS
[01:26] <__Serge__> I only have 1 HD... it's a laptop
[01:26] <sbalneav> Well, we'll try to front-load some of the LTSP and Edubuntu BOF's
[01:27] <LaserJock> ok, then backup and use a tool like Partition Magic or similar to resize your had drive
[01:27] <sbalneav> __Serge__: Always make a backup before attempting to install any new operating system on a single drive system.
[01:27] <__Serge__> well... that's the problem... i don't know anyting about that stuff...
[01:27] <__Serge__> what is partition magic?
[01:27] <__Serge__> how do i use it?
[01:28] <__Serge__> after oor before i install ubuntu?
[01:28] <LaserJock> well, Parition Magic is Windows program that allows you to resize the hard drive partitions
[01:28] <LaserJock> you would run it before installing Ubuntu
[01:29] <LaserJock> however, if you back your Windows stuf first you can try the resizer that is in the Ubuntu installer
[01:29] <__Serge__> what is a partirion? the only thing i know is that i have a 20 GB HD, and i have used only 7 GB...
[01:30] <__Serge__> so, i have 13 gb for ubuntu...
[01:30] <LaserJock> right, well you might read up a little on that, wikipedia would probably have some info
[01:30] <__Serge__> i can't just install ubuntu without making anything with that partition stuff?
[01:30] <LaserJock> basically a partition separates your hard drive into chuncks
[01:31] <LaserJock> the problem is that Windows is already controlling the whole hard drive
[01:31] <LaserJock> even though you haven't used it all, it's basically "reserved" that space
[01:31] <__Serge__> aaaahhhh.... i'm starting to understand now...
[01:32] <__Serge__> and with partition magic i can "undo" this reservation made by windows?
[01:33] <LaserJock> yes
[01:33] <LaserJock> it will resize the "reservation" so it will tell Windows, "You only get 10GB"
[01:33] <LaserJock> or whatever you want it to have
[01:34] <__Serge__> very nice...
[01:34] <__Serge__> and i have to use this tool before teh instalation, from windows...
[01:35] <LaserJock> well, Partition Magic is a particular program (not free) that does it in Windows
[01:35] <LaserJock> it works very well
[01:35] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu installer can also do it
[01:36] <__Serge__> ok.
[01:36] <LaserJock> but you want to be sure to back up your existing Windows files before doing it
[01:36] <LaserJock> becuase if it gets messed up that's it
[01:36] <LaserJock> you have to reinstall
[01:36] <__Serge__> i see..
[01:36] <__Serge__> well... thx for all the info..
[01:36] <__Serge__> : )
[01:36] <__Serge__> i'll experiment later...
[01:36] <__Serge__> see you..
[01:36] <__Serge__> Byeeeee
[01:37] <LaserJock> phew
[01:37] <sbalneav> heh
[01:38] <sbalneav> We have this running joke in #ltsp...
[01:39] <sbalneav> About people who just got themselves a brand shiny new set of box end wrenches...
[01:40] <sbalneav> And then figure that, since they got the wrenches, they got everything they need to build an F14 :)  Regardless of how easy we make it, you'll always need a LITTLE bit of computer savy to install Linux.  Until we get it easy to buy pre-installed boxes.
[01:40] <LaserJock> yep
[01:40] <Burgundavia> heh
[01:40] <LaserJock> not that Windows is necessarily easier to install
[01:41] <LaserJock> it's just that we will always be LSOS (Linux as a Second OS) ;-)
[01:41] <sbalneav> Right.
[01:42] <LaserJock> I think the pre-installed Linux will be the tipping point
[01:42] <LaserJock> it's pretty darn sweet if you don't have to install anything
[01:43] <Burgundavia> for the consumer market, yes
[01:43] <sbalneav> And I'm CONSTANTLY amazed, as a sysadmin, the number of people who'd be willing to install another OS on their box without backup first
[01:43] <Burgundavia> for the corporate marketing, we need more config tools
[01:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:43] <Burgundavia> apparently rh is working on some cool provisioning stuff
[01:49] <sbalneav> I wonder, any good backup software for windows we can point people to?
[01:49] <sbalneav> Especially Free!
[01:49] <Burgundavia> dd?
[01:50] <crimsun> http://sourceforge.net/projects/amanda/
[01:52] <sbalneav> Does that backup windows box?
[01:53] <crimsun> Amanda is the most popular Backup and Archiving software that protects multiple machines running various versions of Linux, UNIX and Microsoft Windows operating systems. It supports tapes, disks, optical media and changers.
[01:53] <crimsun> I really did use that URL for a reason.
[01:55] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:55] <crimsun> http://www.zmanda.com/downloads.html  if you're really, really, really, really lazy.
[01:55] <crimsun> s/lazy/preoccupied/g or whatever you choose :-)
[01:55] <sbalneav> Yeah, but how do you use it for a single box that;s windows only?  Doesn't Amanda need a centralized server?
[01:57] <crimsun> oh, you want the server on win32?
[01:57] <crimsun> hmm.
[01:59] <sbalneav> Well, something we can point people to and say, "here, before you install *buntu on your box, download THIS and back up your laptop/destop on CD's/DVD's etc.
[07:38] <Bhaskar> which movi/music player is best for child?
[03:00] <bddebian> Heya
[03:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[03:01] <bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
[03:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> hallo bddebian :)
[05:54] <cliebow_> anyone have a oneliner to import gpg keys..for feisty?'
[05:55] <juliux> cliebow_, which gpg keys you need?
[05:56] <cliebow_> well update manager fails for feisty-security release
[05:56] <cliebow_> feisty-updates..
[05:56] <cliebow_> just stearted this A.M.
[05:56] <stgraber> cliebow_: wget http://the-key-url -O - | apt-key add -
[05:56] <stgraber> as root ?
[05:56] <cliebow_> sudo
[05:56] <juliux> i think there are no feisty-security and feisty-updates yet
[05:57] <cliebow_> hmm..maybe i am up to date then..this machine upgraded from breezy-->edgy-->feisty..so ichanged sources.list a couple times
[05:58] <juliux> cliebow_, i am not sure
[05:59] <pipedream> there are
[05:59] <cliebow_> just dont know what key repo to use..googling isnt halping much
[06:08] <knix_> has network mnger been fixed yet?
[06:10] <pipedream> echo exit >> /etc/default/NetworkManager
[06:10] <pipedream> echo exit >> /etc/default/NetworkManagerDispatcher
[06:12] <knix_> ?
[06:13] <pipedream> to disable NetworkManager
[06:13] <pipedream> messes with some setups
[06:14] <pipedream> gtg
[06:14] <knix_> Im just curious if it has been fixed,  I really want to test ltsp
[06:14] <pipedream> dunno
[06:15] <pipedream> but if you need to disable it, you can use that in the meantime
[06:15] <pipedream> kbye
[06:17] <knix_> ty
[07:44] <knix_> when I try to boot to the server I get this message, file not found, no tftp agent or something like that
[07:44] <knix_> the dhcp server is running, what should I check
[07:47] <cliebow_> is there a tftp server running?
[07:48] <knix_> not sure, it was working before
[07:48] <knix_> just trying to boot to the edubuntu server
[07:49] <cliebow_> perhaps netstat -anp|grep":69" will tell if tftp is listening via inetd?
[07:51] <knix_> ok i see udp
[07:51] <cliebow_> dpkg -l|grep tftp might tell which server you have?
[07:52] <knix_> hpa
[07:52] <knix_> well like I said, it did work before.  I updated it today and now it doesnt, other than network mangaer and static interfaces
[07:56] <cliebow_> knix_:you might go tp #ltsp..see if jammcq can help you
[07:56] <cliebow_> is dhcp clearly running?
[07:56] <knix_> yes it is running, i dedfinitely made sure of that
[07:57] <cliebow_> there is a way to try tftp from one regu;ar  machine to another..
[07:58] <knix_> ok, does my thin client need tftp?
[07:58] <cliebow_> it does..to download the kernal
[08:00] <knix_> ok cliebow_ ty
[09:07] <sbalneav> Afternoon all
[09:16] <juliux> hi sbalneav
[09:17] <sbalneav> Hello juliux
[09:27] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[09:27] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[09:27] <sbalneav> How's it going?
[09:27] <LaserJock> ugg, I've been sick since Friday
[09:28] <sbalneav> Updates seem quiet yesterday and today.  Wonder if "gaim" will become "pidgin" before apr 17
[09:28] <LaserJock> and I have a departmental seminar to give Wednesday :(
[09:28] <sbalneav> Oh no.  Flu?
[09:28] <LaserJock> no, just a cold, but it's enough to be annoying
[09:28] <LaserJock> I'm just shot
[09:29] <sbalneav> I can imagine.  Spring/summer colds are the worst.
[09:32] <knix_> Ok, I reinstalled edubuntu edgy, and maybe I am missing something.  I configured /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and I still cannot boot to the server.  Its saying the same thing as in feisty, tftp agent file not found
[09:33] <knix_> Are there any other configurind steps that I might have missed?
[09:34] <sbalneav> What's saying the same thing?
[09:34] <sbalneav> the boot client?
[09:34] <knix_> yes the boot client
[09:34] <sbalneav> have you done a "sudo ltsp-update-kernels"?
[09:35] <knix_> since nm has not been fixed yet, i went back down to edgy.
[09:35] <knix_> no I have not issued that cmd yet
[09:35] <sbalneav> Then you'll need to.  That installs the kernels into the tftp area.
[09:36] <knix_> ok, i did that and it says "skipping invalid chroot : /opt/ltsp/i386
[09:37] <sbalneav> do you have an /opt/ltsp/i386
[09:39] <knix_> I just rebooted one sec
[09:39] <knix_> yes i do
[09:40] <knix_> fyi, this is a fresh install with updates
[09:41] <sbalneav> So you did an ltsp-build-client?  Or the install did it for you?
[09:41] <knix_> i did not, im assuming the install did it
[09:42] <knix_> this is weird, it was doing the same for edubuntu fesity beta earlier
[09:42] <sbalneav> Might have failed, by the look of it, seeing as how the update-kernels doesn't think it's a valid chroot.
[09:42] <sbalneav> best bet would be to mv /opt/ltsp /opt/oldltsp
[09:42] <sbalneav> and do a sudo ltsp-build-client
[09:42] <knix_> ok, i will try thatj, ty for the help
[09:44] <knix_> ack
[09:45] <knix_> failure trying to run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc error: LTSP client install ended abnormally
[09:47] <sbalneav> Were you doing some stuff in the chroot before?
[09:47] <knix_> nope, its a new install
[09:48] <sbalneav> does /proc/mounts show /proc mounted int he chroot?
[09:48] <knix_> i had to reboot again, one sec
[09:49] <knix_> sbalneav, do you use aim or anything?
[09:49] <sbalneav> Sometimes I use gaim
[09:50] <knix_> I mean like aim, yahoo, msn, etc....
[09:50] <sbalneav> I use jabber.  Why?
[09:51] <knix_> just wondering,  it would be nice to chat outside irc
[09:52] <knix_> ok, how should I check /proc/mounts?
[09:52] <sbalneav> Why?  Here the conversation is recorded and logged.
[09:52] <knix_> ha, nvmd
[09:52] <sbalneav> cat /proc/mounts
[09:52] <sbalneav> That way it can be searched by others.
[09:53] <knix_> gotcha
[09:53] <knix_> im not seeing it there
[09:53] <knix_> wait, yes i do
[09:53] <sbalneav> Just one, or two?
[09:53] <knix_> one
[09:53] <sbalneav> one is ok
[09:54] <knix_> ummm
[09:54] <LaserJock> sbalneav: get my pm?
[09:54] <knix_> ok, im lost
[09:54] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Yes I did, and I responded
[09:55] <sbalneav> knix_: OK, so what happens now if you do the sudo ltsp-build-client
[09:55] <knix_> same thing
[09:55] <sbalneav> ok, lets try this:
[09:55] <knix_> failure trying to run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc error: LTSP client install ended abnormally
[09:55] <sbalneav> sudo umount /proc ; sudo ltsp-build-client
[09:56] <knix_> umount: /proc: device is busy failure trying to run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc error: LTSP client install ended abnormally
[09:56] <sbalneav> hm
[09:56] <sbalneav> Something odd there.
[09:57] <sbalneav> do a sudo mount /proc
[09:57] <knix_> for real
[09:57] <knix_> already mounted
[09:58] <sbalneav> LaserJock: See my message?
[09:59] <knix_> does it matter if I installed edubuntu on top of ubuntu?
[09:59] <LaserJock> sbalneav: no
[09:59] <sbalneav> Hmm
[10:00] <knix_> sbalneav, is there a log we could look at?
[10:02] <sbalneav> I'm looking about now.
[10:10] <cliebow_> knix_would you check what versiof of ltsp-build-client you have?
[10:10] <knix_> sure
[10:10] <knix_> cmd?
[10:11] <cliebow_> like maybe ddpkg -l|grep ltsp-build-client?
[10:11] <cliebow_> scrap a d there
[10:11] <knix_> heh, one sec
[10:12] <knix_> nothing is coming up
[10:12] <sbalneav> It's not a separate package.  ltsp-server will be though
[10:13] <knix_> .124
[10:13] <cliebow_> Hahah!
[10:13] <knix_> for basic and complete
[10:13] <knix_> ughhh?
[10:13] <cliebow_> you d prob want 5.0.67
[10:13] <cliebow_> you d prob want 5.0.6
[10:13] <knix_> I got it from the repos
[10:13] <sbalneav> cliebow_: he's got it.
[10:14] <sbalneav> That's just the package version number
[10:14] <cliebow_> hmm mine says ltsp-server 5.0.6
[10:14] <sbalneav> hmmmm, google or the mailing lists aren't turning up anything
[10:14] <cliebow_> i had quite a time with /dev/fd0 in .124
[10:15] <cliebow_> ltsp-server-standalone 5.0.6
[10:15] <knix_> ya mine show 0.124
[10:16] <cliebow_> Scottie: wouldnt you sudo apt-get update ltsp-server-standalone?
[10:17] <sbalneav> Well, I'm assuming you've done all the updates, yes knix_?
[10:17] <knix_> correct
[10:17] <sbalneav> hmm
[10:18] <sbalneav> Well, best bet is to keep an eye out for ogra.  He'd know for sure...
[10:18] <knix_> very very weird
[10:18] <cliebow_> what happens if you do sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
[10:18] <sbalneav> But I'll keep looking
[10:18] <sbalneav> He's got it already
[10:18] <knix_> yes i do
[10:18] <cliebow_> ok..that nimber seems ancient..
[10:19] <knix_> the .124?
[10:19] <cliebow_> sbalneav is a prime mover here....
[10:19] <knix_> lol
[10:19] <sbalneav> Phht
[10:20] <sbalneav> ogra's the expert.  I'm paging through the code now to try to figure out why that'd be failing.
[10:20] <knix_> im just really confused.  It was working last week on feisty beta, and now this
[10:20] <cliebow_> that version was...well...almost twoweeks ago..the Stone age for all practical purposes
[10:20] <knix_> lol
[10:24] <cliebow_> cliebow looks for dead horse to flog
[10:24] <knix_> lol
[10:25] <knix_> flog?  new work to me
[10:25] <cliebow_> so apt saya you have the newest version huh/
[10:25] <knix_> ya
[10:25] <knix_> on edgy
[10:26] <cliebow_> yeah..and i am in feisty
[10:26] <knix_> nm still broke ?
[10:26] <cliebow_> i saw no updates...
[10:27] <knix_> doh
[10:27] <knix_> hehe
[10:27] <cliebow_> this for wireoless you mean
[10:27] <cliebow_> ?
[10:27] <knix_> no
[10:27] <knix_> static ip
[10:27] <knix_> dual nics
[10:28] <cliebow_> /etc/network/interfaces still works though/
[10:28] <cliebow_> ?
[10:28] <cliebow_> hmm..edgys should be marginally ok..
[10:28] <knix_> ya, but both nics wont work together, lets say one is dhcp from inet and static internally, shizz is broke.  and yes i thought edgy would be bugless
[10:29] <cliebow_> network-mangler has Always been weird..i almost gave up in breezy cause of it
[10:29] <knix_> :)
[10:30] <cliebow_> but sbalneav and jammcq snickered at me so i redoubled my effort..
[10:30] <knix_> well i have to leave soon. Ill be back on later to chat,  I wont be able to touch the machine till tomorrow
[10:31] <cliebow_> ive got one of my servers here doa on the operating table
[10:31] <knix_> :(
[10:31] <knix_> hopefully a windows one
[10:31] <cliebow_> voltage regulator module died..it is a redhat box serving one school
[10:31] <knix_> kewl
[10:32] <cliebow_> mostly in the background so far..trying to sneak in the back door 8~)
[10:32] <knix_> haha, should I post this issue on the forums?
[10:33] <cliebow_> ogra isa bound to be around..
[10:33] <cliebow_> he will knw..since he wrote it
[10:33] <cliebow_> mostly anyway
[10:33] <knix_> well I gotta run, Ill be back on shortly.   Great ill look for him later
[10:34] <cliebow_> over and out
[11:37] <ajmitch> morning