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[06:39] <gabriel_> hi, can anyone point me to where i can get some help with some feisty upgrading issues? I dont know if this is the right place
[06:39] <crimsun> #ubuntu+1, please
[06:39] <gabriel_> ok, thanx
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[11:15] <ant_ipop> i need help reporting a bug: its a problem about kde freezing, what package/product should i choose for the report ? (no response in #kubuntu, ubuntu+1, and the bug wiki didnt help me)
[11:16] <Riddell> ant_ipop: it depends on what is doing the freezing
[11:17] <ant_ipop> happens only if im downloading several large files at the same time, happens with KGet or Firefox's own downloadmanager, also with download-managing firefox extensions
[11:18] <Riddell> so not a kde issue
[11:18] <Riddell> what are you unable to do when it freezes?
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[11:18] <ant_ipop> i did a memtest and a badblock search, no errors there, and its happening with kernel -13 -14 maybe with -12 too, dont remember when it started
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[11:19] <ant_ipop> no input possible: mouse not moving, ctrl alt backspace or ctrl alt f1 dont work
[11:19] <ant_ipop> music played by amarok falls into a quick loop
[11:19] <Riddell> so sounds like a linux problem
[11:19] <Riddell> yes
[11:19] <ant_ipop> but happens without amarok playing too
[11:19] <Riddell> report on linux-source-2.6.20
[11:19] <ant_ipop> thanks
[11:20] <ant_ipop> and prduct?
[11:20] <Riddell> ubuntu
[11:20] <Riddell> but test with the latest linux first
[11:20] <Riddell> have feisty beta installed at least
[11:21] <ant_ipop> "There is no project named 'ubuntu' registered in Launchpad"
[11:21] <ant_ipop> yes its a up-to-date feisty installation
[11:21] <Riddell> oh, -13, not .13.  that's fine
[11:22] <Riddell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/
[11:22] <ant_ipop> allright
[11:23] <Riddell> make sure you say what network driver is being used since you say it's a network issue
[11:23] <ant_ipop> sorry, may i use" linux" as product, cant find ubuntu in the search form there
[11:23] <ant_ipop> i have to tell a package, and a product
[11:24] <Riddell> I just gave you the URL
[11:24] <ant_ipop> i have to reproduce the bug now to have some errors ins the logs
[11:25] <ant_ipop> because when im not downloading several files at the same time it wont happen
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[11:29] <makuchaku> Hello all, which package provides me with debug symbols for libdbus-1-3?
[11:29] <makuchaku> I could not locate anything ilke libdbus-1-3-dbg on packages.ubuntu.com :(
[11:29] <makuchaku> *like
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[12:28] <cypher1> will vesafb be used always while booting up ? Or are there any chances it may not be loaded ?
[12:29] <cypher1> also it is confusing that in my machine i can see "vesafb" in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-framebuffer.. but "lsmod" shows "vesafb" as loaded ! am i missing anything ?
[12:30] <mjg59> It'll be loaded, but it won't be used
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[12:33] <cypher1> mjg59: thanks
[12:33] <cypher1> mjg59: but will it not then unnecessarily take up memory ?
[12:34] <mjg59> If you need 9K that desperately, you may already have lost
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[01:07] <zyga> is main totally frozen now?
[01:08] <zyga> no chance to get anything updated?
[01:10] <mjg59> Unless it fixes critical bugs
[01:11] <zyga> mjg59: not really critical but the bugs are annoying :/
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[01:14] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[01:14] <zyga> mjg59: what is the final date of closing feisty?
[01:15] <zyga> (as in making cd masters)
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[01:17] <pitti> hi ajmitch, happy Easter holidays!
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[01:35] <pwuertz> hi, I built a deb package with debhelper, added a menu file and ran dh_installmenu
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[01:36] <pwuertz> so the package includes / installs the menu file... but my application does not appear in the gnome panel after installing
[01:36] <pwuertz> whats wrong?
[01:36] <Adri2000> pwuertz: menu files are debian specific, you should use a .desktop file
[01:37] <pwuertz> i also installed a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications
[01:37] <pwuertz> Adri2000: do I have to symlink it somewhere else?
[01:37] <Adri2000> no, in /usr/share/applications/ should be ok
[01:38] <pwuertz> well... its there... but nothing happens
[01:38] <pwuertz> its definately working, because the mime handler seems to recognizes the .desktop file
[01:39] <pwuertz> but how to get a menu entry
[01:39] <Adri2000> pwuertz: /join #ubuntu-motu, it's a better place for this kind of questions
[01:40] <pwuertz> ok.. will do
[01:40] <pwuertz> thanks
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[02:05] <Lutin> glatzor: may I /query you ?
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[02:09] <stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 minutes for a scheduled update. Estimated downtime is 10 mins.
[02:10] <Fujitsu> Thanks stub.
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[02:20] <glatzor> Lutin: for sure
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[02:55] <TheMuso> c
[02:55] <TheMuso> gah
[02:56] <Hobbsee> d
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[03:00] <bddebian> Heya
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[04:05] <_ion> Hi pitti!
[04:05] <_ion> pitti: Please take a look at the change at my restricted-manager branch.
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[04:14] <_ion> pitti: Oh, i pushed one more change to the hook.
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[04:46] <pitti> _ion: looks nice, thank you!
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[05:41] <jdong> if anyone who works on the upgrader is around.... is there any reason why we don't enforce that linux-generic be installed?
[05:41] <jdong> I have a feisty user complaining to me about restricted-modules not being installed.... partly due to user error (he popped off linux-generic while fiddling with nvidia earlier)
[05:41] <jdong> but I think dist-upgrader should enforce that linux-generic be installed ,like it does ubuntu-desktop
[05:41] <mjg59> Because linux-generic isn't generic?
[05:42] <mjg59> What I mean is, linux-generic isn't inherently the right answer
[05:42] <mjg59> There should be at least one kernel metapackage installed, though
[05:42] <mjg59> pitti was looking at making sure that was the case
[05:42] <jdong> well it should find the appropriate one....
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[05:42] <jdong> but yeah, some metapackage should be installed
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[05:55] <hyperactivecrond> is pidgin going to replace gaim 2.0betax in feisty?
[05:58] <hyperactivecrond> o-kay didn't see the /topic
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[06:05] <superm1> BenC, ping
[06:05] <BenC> superm1: yo
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[06:06] <superm1> BenC, i'm updating the feisty lirc wiki pages, do you think that patch I put together before will end up making it in before feisty release?
[06:06] <BenC> superm1: I'm doubting it...mostly my fault for not getting it in for the last kernel upload
[06:06] <BenC> I need to check the "has patch" filter for kernel bugs more often
[06:07] <superm1> oh thats a shame :(
[06:07] <superm1> and since we're past kernel freeze, little likliness of a "feature patch" being added i take it
[06:07] <BenC> superm1: Maybe we can get it in for an update later, but for release, it's a no-go
[06:07] <BenC> right
[06:08] <superm1> okay, i'll update the text to reflect that then
[06:08] <superm1> did it look good elsewise though?
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[06:11] <crimsun> BenC: I presume that policy follows for the trivial ones I've sent, too, correct?
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[06:11] <BenC> crimsun: Yours were minor additions to PCI tables, so I included them
[06:11] <crimsun> BenC: ah, ok. Thanks.
[06:12] <BenC> lirc is an entire subsystem :)
[06:12] <superm1> hehe
[06:12] <crimsun> ah, scale of invasiveness. Understood.
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[06:13] <OwlEye> usually, there are lots of messages scrolling by during boot that can be reviewed in /var/log/dmesg later. ubuntu has a feature where it only shows a summary of these status messages in a graphical box. how that feature is called?
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[06:14] <pochu> OwlEye: do you mean usplash?
[06:14] <OwlEye> could be, let me look that up
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[06:17] <OwlEye> pochu, hm. i am not sure now. what i dont mean is the typical bootsplash, where a custom image is displayed during boot. i mean that graphical box where the boot messages are displayed
[06:18] <BenC> OwlEye: that's usplash
[06:18] <pochu> OwlEye: oh, but that isn't anymore in the Feisty Fawn release :-)
[06:19] <BenC> OwlEye: but usplash by default is less verbose now
[06:20] <jdong> OwlEye: if you remove quiet from yoru boot options, the text will show up again
[06:20] <OwlEye> awesome. i found it packaged for debian. thats what i needed. thanks a lot guys :)
[06:21] <OwlEye> and so much friendlier than debian developers :)
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=== jdong waves at BenC :)
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[06:23] <BenC> jdong: hey
[06:24] <jdong> BenC: hey you got any ideas on the ti flashmedia thing?
[06:24] <jdong> it seems like the new release fixed mine but broke a bunch of others :D
[06:24] <jdong> (bug 53923)
[06:24] <ubotu> Malone bug 53923 in linux-source-2.6.20 "tifm: Texas Instruments Card reader not working" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53923
[06:25] <jdong> the world of device drivers seems quite... exciting :)
[06:26] <mjg59> People who were doing the setpci hack probably lose
[06:27] <jdong> hmm
[06:28] <mjg59> It works properly now
[06:28] <jdong> you think the guys with broken drivers still have setpci magic around?
[06:28] <mjg59> Well
[06:28] <mjg59> There's been no code changes
[06:28] <mjg59> I just changed udev to make sure tifm_sd is loaded
[06:28] <jdong> right, but from -12 to -13 was when tifm 0.8 was added in, right?
[06:28] <jdong> maybe I'm thinking of something else
[06:29] <pochu> pitti: is the LP retrace service broken? I added two or three tags this morning and it hasn't retraced them yet :-/
[06:29] <pitti> pochu: yes, due to LP downtime this morning; I restart them
[06:29] <pochu> cool, thanks :)
[06:29] <bluefoxicy> does Seveas still maintain a FreeNX repo?  That software kind of died in obscurity ....
[06:30] <jdong> bluefoxicy: his repo seems to have died in the freenx department :-/
[06:30] <jdong> at least the last time I checked
[06:30] <tepsipakki> bluefoxicy: it's not freenx anymore
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> oh o.o it's called something else?
[06:30] <tepsipakki> yes, although I can't remember what :)
[06:30] <jdong> really?
[06:31] <jdong> http://freenx.berlios.de/
=== bluefoxicy had been hoping forever for GDM/FreeNX integration and Vino/FreeNX and all :(
[06:31] <tepsipakki> jdong: oh
[06:31] <tepsipakki> seems that someone did continue that project
[06:32] <tepsipakki> but there was another fork from freenx which is essentially another nomachine.com
=== bluefoxicy ponders ssh --NX ... X forwarding but using the FreeNX protocol over ssh.  He can dream.... running Nessus over ssh is so slow :(
[06:33] <tepsipakki> that would be cool, merging the protocol in Xorg
[06:33] <tepsipakki> since freenx is still carrying it's own X
[06:34] <tepsipakki> which kinda sucks
[06:34] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: it would be the right way to do it, as an X server extension.
[06:34] <bluefoxicy> actually I was thinking more of emitting X packets at the client end
[06:34] <bluefoxicy> like ssh -X does
[06:34] <bluefoxicy> so the client program pulls over the FreeNX packets, and draws the screen with them, utilizing an X server (separate) to do so.
[06:35] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: that would be trivial to do, but you wouldn't gain the latency boost you get from nxagent
[06:35] <Chipzz> mjg59: wtf is up with wouter?
[06:35] <bluefoxicy> side note becomes that it'd be incredibly cool if ssh could, on the server side, compress X forwarding packets with NX and then, on the client side, decompress them :)
[06:35] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ?  Why not?
[06:36] <tepsipakki> I tried to package freenx last fall to replace our nomachineNX-servers, but it was far from trivial..
[06:36] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: because that requires having an X server on the SSH server end.
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ssh can't pick up the packets and encode them itself?
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> what's it doing, maintaining a synchronous X state between 2 X servers?
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> (does that even make any sense)
[06:37] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: do you understand why NX is faster than regular X forwarding?
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  no, I always thought it was because it has better compression than VNC ... i.e. compression of X packets instead of compression of screen caps.  Whereas SSH has poor compression and regular X forwarding/XDMCP has no compression
[06:38] <shawarma> bluefoxicy: NX is not just a compression algorithm for X. If that's all you want, you can just add -C to your ssh command line and you've added gzip compression to your ssh tunnel. 
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> shawarma:  and if you believe that, you can compress all your 15MB .bmp images with gzip too :)
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> shawarma:  I'd think a specialized algorithm for the correct type of data would do better than general purpose (see FLAC vs ZIP)
[06:40] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: NX consists of two bits:  One which is a smart proxy where it will return the same set of results for each query, which reencodes pixmaps as jpegs or pngs, etc.  That reduces bandwidth consumption, but not latency (much).
[06:40] <shawarma> bluefoxicy: right.
[06:40] <Mithrandir> the other bit is implemented by nxagent, it allows disconnection, it allows clients to do complex tasks (since they talk to nxagent which is a regular X server, not just a small shim)
[06:40] <Mithrandir> nxagent is responsible for the large decrease in latency.
=== bluefoxicy huhs
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> I'm not following.
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[06:42] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  so what's it do, frame skip when the screen is being redrawn 40 times a second and only send 1 or 2 of those across the pipe?
[06:42] <tepsipakki> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_technology
[06:42] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: yes, as well as reencode stuff as jpegs and such.
[06:42] <tepsipakki> bluefoxicy: ^^
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.
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[07:06] <zyga> oh please tell me that michael vogt works tommorow
[07:06] <Mithrandir> he does
[07:08] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Is anything in particular keeping https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apcalc/+bug/99993 from happening? Just holidays?
[07:08] <ubotu> Malone bug 99993 in apcalc "[UVFe Sync Request]  apcalc 2.12.1.13-2" [Medium,Confirmed]  
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[07:10] <Mithrandir> shawarma: nothing but holidays, no.
[07:10] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Ok, great.
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[07:15] <_ion> Re: the earlier discussion, it's amazing how much better NX is than plain ssh -C.
[07:16] <zyga> _ion: NX?
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[07:17] <_ion> zyga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_technology
=== zyga was puzzled due to no-execution bit, I was wondering how ssh compares to that ;-)
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[07:21] <_ion> A "no-exec bit vs. ssh" flamefest would be a welcome change for the usual Gnome vs. KDE, Emacs vs. Vim fights. ;-)
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[07:24] <jwendell> asac, around?
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=== poningru wonders why mako doesnt hang with use any more
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[07:36] <LaserJock> poningru: to busy changing the world, and getting vegan-friendly anti-RFID wallets :-)
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[07:36] <poningru> buh?
[07:36] <poningru> oh s/use/us
[07:37] <poningru> oh s/to/too
[07:37] <poningru> gotcha
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[08:01] <jdahlin> Hi there, is there a directory in ubuntu which I can use to install python packages that are compatible with multiple python versions?
[08:02] <zyga> jdahlin: I think python-central is there to solve this kind of issue
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[08:14] <mako> poningru: i don't think i ever really "hung out" here.. i idle here in case any anyone has questions for me
[08:14] <poningru> not here dude #freeculture
[08:14] <poningru> I just hope it wasnt because of the openmako jokes
[08:15] <mako> poningru: oh, i think i just forgot to add it to my irssi config and the server i run screen on crashed :)
[08:16] <poningru> oh awesome
[08:16] <poningru> well... you know what I mean
[08:16] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, NX is quite crappy -- too bad it's the only thing that does what it does
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[08:17] <jdahlin> zyga: /usr/lib/site-python seems to be the answer
[08:17] <LaserJock> mako: thanks for the RFID wallet post, btw. I'm thinking of getting a passport wallet for UDS ;-)
[08:17] <jdahlin> but python's distutils does not install packages there by default.
=== poningru hands LaserJock his hammer
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[08:20] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  yeah there was a lot of buzz about it back then.
[08:21] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, all the buzzers (including myself) woke up and smelled the problems
[08:22] <Treenaks> Seveas: back to vnc then? :P
[08:22] <bluefoxicy> Seveas:  it seems to be an X server on the client end with a display over network, according to what I've gathered today.  Traditional X forwarding/XDMCP is a server away from the client; and and VNC is a server forwarding rectangular regions instead of redrawing specifically based on what the X packets say to change.
[08:26] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, it's worse
[08:27] <Seveas> bluefoxicy, it's an X server running on the server, proxying X calls via its own protocol to the X client on the client which basically is an xnest
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> o_O
[08:27] <Seveas> so you need an X server and NX proxy on both sides
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[08:28] <Seveas> good way to solve it: fix the X protocol to include these enhancements and do some x-servr-reconnection magic
[08:28] <Mithrandir> Seveas: GTK is growing support for letting apps disconnect easily.
[08:28] <Seveas> but that requires working with open sourc people, which nomachine apparently cannot do
[08:29] <Seveas> Mithrandir, that's awesome!
[08:29] <mako> LaserJock: i don't have an rfid passport yet
[08:29] <Mithrandir> at least keithp claimed so in SF, and he tends to know what's going on in the crazy world of X
[08:29] <Seveas> Mithrandir, but isn't that a layer too high?
[08:31] <Mithrandir> Seveas: well, X as such should support it fine with XCB-using apps, at least..
[08:32] <Mithrandir> it's just a socket
[08:32] <Seveas> ah
[08:32] <Mithrandir> nothing says you can't do XCloseDisplay and then XOpenDisplay again
[08:33] <mjr> it would be fun though if that could be said without requiring spesific co-operation from the client application (from the X libraries, sure)
[08:34] <LaserJock> mako: I don't know if mine is or not, issued last year for UDS Paris, but as I don't have much of any wallet right now I thought I might try them out
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[09:25] <zyga> whoo, feisty mirrored :D
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[09:53] <freemind> hello mates, ubuntu's init doesn't seem to like interactive shellscripts, how to enable interactive mode?
[09:53] <keescook> Mithrandir: what do you want me to do with security updates for main during the next two weeks?
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[09:54] <Mithrandir> keescook: for the coming week, just upload and I'll wave them through.
[09:54] <Seveas> freemind, this channel is not for support
[09:54] <freemind> sorry then mates :)
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[09:55] <keescook> Mithrandir: okay, I wasn't sure if it would cause headaches for image builds, etc.
[09:55] <Mithrandir> keescook: I'm not going to hold back any releases for you, though, so you might need to re-upload (to -security) if you're too close to release.
[09:55] <Mithrandir> but that's just bandwidth
[09:55] <keescook> Mithrandir: sure, no problem.
[09:55] <keescook> I just want to know how when/where to be doing the uploads so it doesn't get in your way.  :)
[09:56] <Mithrandir> keescook: just upload them normally, they'll end in an unapproved queue.
[09:57] <Mithrandir> keescook: if you tell me about the uploads when you do them (or beforehand), that's useful so I understand why random packages suddenly show up in the queue
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[09:59] <ajmitch> morning
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[10:01] <pochu> hey ajmitch
[10:01] <smokie_> dir
[10:02] <jdong> dir :D
[10:02] <jdong> Directory of C:\ Volume Serial 0000-0000
[10:02] <jdong> ;-)
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[10:05] <zyga>  jdong: huh?
[10:06] <jdong> zyga: I am command.com-compliant ;-)
[10:06] <jdong> or broken.
[10:06] <jdong> but that seems to be one and twelfth dozen.
[10:06] <zyga> fortunatly I have no knowledge of that :D
[10:06] <zyga> dos had volume serial numbers/
[10:07] <jdong> yeah, it did :-/
[10:07] <keescook> Mithrandir: okay, cool.  Well, this recent upload (ipsec-tools) is for a DoS on IPSEC tunnel traffic.
[10:07] <jdong> zyga: echo "dir C:\\" | wine cmd.exe
[10:07] <zyga> wow :D
[10:08] <zyga> I'll install wine just to see that
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[10:08] <_ion> I think it was on this channel that someone once complained that someone had set his shell to wine cmd.exe as a prank. :-)
[10:08] <jdong> zyga: we prank people by setting that as their login shell ;-)
[10:08] <jdong> _ion: me :)
[10:08] <jdong> _ion: it's more fun when you do it to others :D
[10:08] <_ion> :-)
[10:08] <shawarma> jdong: What the... Mine enters and infinite loop, apparantly.
[10:08] <zyga> hehe
[10:09] <jdong> shawarma: speaking of brokenness......
[10:09] <shawarma> Ah, the stupid thing doesn't stop when there's no more input.
[10:09] <jdong> cmd.exe does not take EOF too well
[10:09] <jdong> :)
[10:09] <jdong> so no echo pipe
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[10:11] <smokie_> EXIT
[10:12] <jdong> because ^D doesn't work ;-)
[10:12] <zyga> ahh, apt-get remvoe wine
[10:12] <zyga> that's soo nice :-)
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[11:15] <BenC> Anyone know why dbus would send just Pause for KEY_PLAYPAUSE ?
[11:15] <BenC> and where does dbus get the event from anyway
[11:16] <zyga> BenC: lsof may hint you on the latter
[11:16] <BenC> I'm pretty sure dbus has a lot of connections :)
[11:16] <zyga> dev ones are most interesting problably
[11:18] <zyga> does cannonical publish ubuntu download stats?
[11:24] <BenC> zyga: No idea
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[11:24] <BenC> Ah, I found out that Keyboard Shortcuts prefs is what I wanted
[11:25] <BenC> anyone know how these defaults are stored?
[11:25] <_ion> gconf probably.
[11:27] <BenC> gnome-settings-daemon is the main app, stores the values in gconf
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[12:01] <mcgrof> anyone use Eyas for UDS seville?
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[12:02] <N6REJ> hey guys we STILL have a problem with the adept updater.
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[12:07] <ajmitch> mcgrof: trying to
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