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[12:15] <wiikii> hello someone ?
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[01:51] <martalli|cli> I just did my first server install, and upon update, it did not update the kernel.  It says that is being kept back
[01:51] <martalli|cli> Do I need to sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[01:52] <martalli|cli> Or is the standard way to upgrade different for the command line?  Maybe 2.6.20.12 is as far as the server distribution has gone?
[01:53] <martalli|cli> ohhh...and what irc client should I use from cli?  Using epic now, but are people using something lese more typically?
[01:56] <mralphabet> 18:52 < martalli|cli> Do I need to sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[01:56] <mralphabet> yes
[01:57] <martalli|cli> When do I know to do that...from the gui, the update manager suggests it only every so often
[01:57] <mralphabet> server? gui?
[01:57] <martalli|cli> My understanding is that a dist-upgrade may downgrade or delete packages
[01:57] <mralphabet> what version of server did you install?
[01:58] <martalli|cli> mralphabet:  I have mostly used the gui for desktop use...so I am trying to picture whether updates shoudl always be dist-upgrade or upgrade and when I shoudl decide
[01:59] <martalli|cli> Now I am working with a server install.  I'm pretty comfortable working with the cli, but a completely cli system is new for me (of course, there was college back in 1989, but I didn't administer those machines =)
[01:59] <mralphabet> no problem
[02:00] <mralphabet> personally I use update / upgrade 99% of the time until there is a package held back that I want
[02:00] <mralphabet> then I use dist-upgrade and make sure it's not going to do anything untoward
[02:00] <martalli|cli> mralphabet - I installed 7.04 beta (2.6.20.12 kernel)
[02:01] <martalli|cli> mralphabet - that sounds reasonable...it is just a matter of watching what apt-get or aptitude is telling me
[02:01] <mralphabet> martalli|cli: as you should be anyway ;)
[02:02] <martalli|cli> yes indeed...i guess I'm not using the cli because I just like to watch the (windows/apple/ubuntu) gui updater do its work =)
[02:03] <mralphabet> heh
[02:03] <martalli|cli> Im just up to a little project - turning a p2-300 machine into an mpd jukebox for our phone server/pbx
[02:05] <martalli|cli> How can I get a help dialog in vim?  I want to find out how to cut/paste or copy/paste
[02:06] <martalli|cli> I figure, its time to move past nano.  Maybe I'm wrong
[02:12] <mralphabet> ctrl insert / shift insert
[02:12] <mralphabet> this in ssh? or something else
[02:12] <mralphabet> or you can do yy
[02:13] <mralphabet> or 5yy to copy 5 lines
[02:13] <mralphabet> p to paste
[02:13] <martalli|cli> I'm logged in directly (but eventually this will just be a headless server
[02:13] <martalli|cli> with ssh)
[02:14] <martalli|cli> No, I wanted to copy like two words and paste it in a few spots
[02:14] <martalli|cli> I did find the online help file (thank you, links2 lol =)
[02:14] <martalli|cli> FOr some reason, it isn't included on the vim-tiny/server install
[02:14] <martalli|cli> I guess they expect I know how to use vi lol
[02:14] <mralphabet> heh, I always do it from terminal so [ctrl|shft]  ins works for me ;)
[02:15] <martalli|cli> Hey, where I can I change this from dhcp to define a specific address?
[02:15] <martalli|cli> That way I won't have to log into the firewall to chase down what address it got from the dhcp server?
[02:16] <mralphabet> ./etc/network/interfaces
[02:16] <martalli|cli> thx
[02:17] <martalli|cli> Ahah, man interfaces makes it pretty clear
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[02:42] <martalli|cli> mralphabet - thanks for your help.  That was pretty easy to change...compared to the gui is was like magic
[02:43] <martalli|cli> Doing it on the gui (i think mdv), it took something like a minute befroe on this same machine
[02:43] <martalli|cli> (changing from dhcp to static address)
[02:44] <mralphabet> np
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[05:09] <dthacker> Hi, I'm running edgy server.  Is there curses based utility that I can run to help with network config?  
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[07:01] <dthacker> hmmmm, no ntp.conf file?
[07:29] <dthacker> I''ll use ntpdate for now....
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[10:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> dthacker, afaik no UI for networking no
[10:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> ntp.conf for clients, or for servers?
[10:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> ntp is done by a script in /etc/network/interfaces/if-up.d iirc
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[01:48] <Nafallo> Kamping_Kaiser: don't you mean ntpdate? :-)
[01:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> Nafallo, quite likely. :)
[01:49] <Nafallo> cause ntp is still /etc/init.d/ntp :-)
[01:49] <Nafallo> kewl! irssi has tabcompletion to the filesystem
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> neat
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[02:14] <dthacker> Kamping_Kaiser: I want to run ntpd on this server, sync with an outside time server, and have all internal severs hit this one
[02:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> /etc/ntp.conf exists on my system, is really all i can say :|
[02:16] <dthacker> Kamping_Kaiser: ok, I'll go check it out.  
[02:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> dthacker, check ntp-server is installed and configured
[02:18] <Nafallo> ntp-server is deprecated package name now :-)
[02:18] <Nafallo> just a dummy
[02:18] <Nafallo> hmm, not even a dummy it seems :-)
[02:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, ok. well its in dapper, which is what i'm using :|
[02:20] <Nafallo> I think it was rebuilt in feisty actually. so should still hold for edgy :-)
[02:20] <Nafallo> but in feisty it's "ntp" :-)
[02:21] <dthacker> will it be "backported" to edgy?
[02:21] <Nafallo> probably not. why? :-)
[02:22] <dthacker> Nafallo: It looks to me like my stock edgy install just has ntpdate, and not ntp.  But I haven't done much digging yet..  
[02:23] <Nafallo> dthacker: edgy has ntp-server and stuff. the old packagenames.
[02:23] <dthacker> ah, ok. 
[02:23] <Nafallo> apt-cache search --names-only ntp would show
[02:24] <dthacker> Nafallo: tnx, still learning my way around stock ubuntu-server installs.  
[02:24] <Nafallo> np
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[03:48] <\sh> guys, did anybody worked with TSO on ubuntu-server (dapper e.g.)
[03:48] <\sh> ?
[03:56] <dthacker> TSO?
[03:59] <maswan> Theodore Ts'o?
[04:01] <shawarma> tcp segment offloading?
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[04:03] <andel7> hi guys....
[04:03] <shawarma> andel7: hello
[04:04] <shawarma> \sh: ^^
[04:04] <shawarma> \sh: Which is it?
[04:05] <andel7> i'm trying to install ubuntu server 6.06 on my HP DL360 G5 server.....after the installation is starting and i choosing my languauge and location the screen is stuck and in the 4th console i can see some kind of loop that repeating itself 
[04:05] <andel7> but i can't see error messages there...
[04:05] <shawarma> Why?
[04:05] <shawarma> What do you see?
[04:05] <andel7> just a sec i'll write you the exact messages...
[04:08] <andel7> usb disconnect adress XX...,HP virtual keyboard ...., new full speed USB device......, none of it looks like "error,fatal,panic...."
[04:11] <dthacker> andel7: are you using a USB keyboard?
[04:11] <shawarma> No idea. You might have better luck in #ubuntu. It's not really a server issue even though you're using the server edition.
[04:11] <andel7> nope - the keyboard is ps2
[04:12] <dthacker> andel7: any USB devices?
[04:12] <andel7> the usb is pressent of course but i'm not using it ....
[04:13] <shawarma> andel7: Is there something like ilo in it?
[04:13] <andel7> yep 
[04:13] <shawarma> could you login to that and see it it's acting up?
[04:13] <andel7> but i'm not connected through ILO
[04:14] <dthacker> andel7: understood.  I was thinking that you had a bad USB device attached. That must not be the case.
[04:14] <shawarma> "HP Virtual keyboard" could be i virtual keyboard from ilo.
[04:14] <andel7> ok....but i think there is no way to turn off" the ilo.....
[04:15] <andel7> i feel more like a driver issue - i'll try the 6.10 
[04:15] <shawarma> andel7: that my not be necessary. Try logging in to it and see if it gives you any hints.
[04:15] <andel7> ok
[04:15] <andel7> thanks guys....i'll update you if i have any advance ( or not ) ... :P
[04:17] <shawarma> np
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[04:31] <\sh> shawarma: yepp, tcp segment offloading , via ethtool
[04:32] <\sh> andel7: I had the same problem with DL320s from hp..
[04:32] <\sh> andel7: udev is running into an infinite loop 
[04:32] <\sh> andel7: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/304-HP-DL320S-and-Ubuntu-Dapper,Edgy,Feisty.html
[04:33] <andel7> thanks ....i'll check this....
[04:34] <\sh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/55495
[04:34] <\sh> and upstream bug: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-usb-devel%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg41847.html
[04:35] <maswan> huh, we've hadn't have any such issues with our dl385 end dl585s though.
[04:35] <\sh> andel7: did you try to boot an ubuntu dapper/edgy server from cd on your machine? at my place, the 320s is locking up after finding PS/2 keyboard port...
[04:35] <\sh> maswan: older machines are not having this behaviour...we think it's ilo2 fault...see linux-usb-devel..
[04:35] <maswan> \sh: ah
[04:36] <\sh> all our other hp servers (dl360g4p, dl585, bl35p class) with ilo1 are working as expected.
[04:36] <maswan> Ok, that's something significant to remember for us then. Is it known if dapper will get an update for this?
[04:37] <\sh> maswan: funny thing...sles9 kernel works ;)
[04:37] <\sh> maswan: read the comment on http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/304-HP-DL320S-and-Ubuntu-Dapper,Edgy,Feisty.html from steffen neumann
[04:37] <\sh> it looks like that it's fixed in 2.6.15-50 in experimental..not knowing if he means debian or one of BenCs private p.u.c./~benc/ archives ;)
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[04:41] <maswan> \sh: well, the launchpad page says "Fix Committed"
[04:44] <\sh> maswan: see #ubuntu-kernel
[04:47] <maswan> \sh: must have missed it then
[04:51] <\sh> maswan: it's in 2.6.15-26.47
[04:51] <\sh> maswan: dapper-security 
[04:52] <maswan> ah, so it's already fixed. good.
[04:53] <\sh> but not on the install media :(
[05:01] <shawarma> Does anyone know if the name of a mysql database is stored anywhere apart from the directory name?
[05:02] <maswan> \sh: We use FAI for installation anyway. :)
[05:05] <shawarma> I have a "backup" of a mysql db in the shape of the MYD and MYI files. A client of mine wants to access this, but I'm a bit reluctant to just put in in /var/lib/mysql under a different dirname since it's a replicated server and I wouldn't want it to mess that up..
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[05:07] <\sh> maswan: we, too ;) but with a special tool for hw gathering and confiuration of our networks 
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[05:09] <lionel> shawarma: no, it is safe to copy-paste the directory of you database
[05:10] <lionel> juste be carrefull if you are changing of mysql version
[05:10] <lionel> and with rights (user and privileges are stored in the mysql db)
[05:10] <shawarma> lionel: Excellent. Thanks
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[05:23] <\sh> maswan: it's in proposed..not -security :(
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[05:37] <dballester> hi to all
[05:45] <dballester> [OT]  any link to read about administration of raw devices in ubuntu ?
[05:46] <andel7> how can i load a network interface module to the installation - can u give me some url?
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[05:55] <mralphabet> dballester: administration of raw devices?
[05:56] <dballester> well
[05:58] <dballester> commming from redhat world, I can define relations between physical partitions and raw devices ( /dev/raw/raw1 -> /dev/sda1 for example ). Then one startup script executes the bindings with raw command
[06:00] <mralphabet> dballester: interesting, that's not something I've seen before
[06:00] <ivoks> sda1 is a raw device :)
[06:01] <dballester> ivoks, I know
[06:05] <ivoks> so, you just want to create links?
[06:05] <dballester> mralphabet, to get an idea http://infocenter.sybase.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.sybase.dc30119_1501/html/installnx/BEIGJJEI.htm
[06:06] <dballester> now seems that redhat is moving to the use of udev instead of raw command
[06:06] <dballester> but i was trying to look for a simple examples on how to 'do the same' under ubuntu
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[06:08] <mralphabet> dballester: interesting, thanks for the link
[06:09] <ivoks> raw /dev/raw/raw1 /dev/sda1
[06:09] <dballester> you can read more about raw partitions management ( I repeat, seems to be the 'old way' now ) in any RedHat Admin pdf. Is the way thay we used to manage raw partitions for oracle datafiles
[06:10] <ivoks> ah....
[06:11] <mralphabet> I'm still reading the sybase doc, but I have to wonder if there is really that much of a performance gain
[06:11] <dballester> ivoks, the 'problem' is then i need to create some type of script to manage raw partitions and convert it to ubuntu init to be launched at correct time when machine boots 
[06:11] <dballester> mralphabet, yes
[06:11] <dballester> you bypass all OS filesystem management
[06:11] <ivoks> there is gain
[06:12] <ivoks> on ext3, i would say around 20%, IIRC
[06:12] <mralphabet> wow
[06:12] <dballester> yes
[06:13] <dballester> this is why is not strange to see oracle datafiles under raw devices on the majority of unix flavors ( even with fc storage )
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[06:13] <ivoks> this brings some other issues, but, yes, it should be faster
[06:13] <dballester> pros: speed
[06:13] <ivoks> cons: no backup :D
[06:13] <dballester> ivoks, false :)
[06:13] <ivoks> hehe
[06:14] <ivoks> you can dd it, yes...
[06:14] <dballester> best way ( i'm only talking about Oracle ) : rman
[06:14] <dballester> the second more 'rude' is what you say, dd
[06:15] <ivoks> so, no bacula and other fancy stuff
[06:15] <dballester> rman now is the best tool to backup/restore oracle database
[06:15] <ivoks> but ok, this is solved on oracle level
[06:15] <dballester> I REALLY love bacula
[06:15] <dballester> despite tivoli, veritas... :)
[06:15] <ivoks> this is something we should think about, since we wouold love to see oracle ceritified for ubuntu
[06:15] <ivoks> bacula rulez.
[06:15] <dballester> bacula, bacula and bacula :)
[06:16] <dballester> but now we have 2 problems
[06:16] <ivoks> i will take a look at it on redhat
=== dthacker uses raw devices for informix on AIX, informix will run on linux raw devices as well...
[06:17] <dthacker> dballester: bacula won't backup raw devices?
[06:18] <dballester> 1 .- rman can 'talk' directly to storage device via propietary vendor library ( libobk provided by tivoli, veritas...)
[06:18] <ivoks> dthacker: bacula client needs to read data...
[06:18] <ivoks> dthacker: iirc, it can' read raw
[06:18] <dballester> 2.- Oracle recently presented is own enterprise backup solution ( not only related to oracle products )
[06:19] <dthacker> hmmmm. 
[06:19] <dballester> And i think that oracle will not be interested on offer rman support for bacula integration :/
[06:20] <ivoks> we would love to see oracle, but not do everything to get it :)
[06:20] <dballester> dthacker, the 'problem' with raw partitions is that only the applications that uses this raw partition knows how the data is stored
[06:20] <ivoks> right
[06:20] <dthacker> informix has two utiliites, one of them is self contained, but the other writes to storage managers
[06:21] <dballester> dthacker, surely, is the only way to make some type of backup of the data stored in raws :)
[06:21] <dthacker> but I also doubt they are interested in writing to bacula, because IBM would rather sell TSM
[06:21] <dballester> of course
[06:21] <dballester> but it's an interesting scenario
[06:22] <dballester> think about a company that has been doing backups with tsm ( Tivoli ) or veritas... for several years ( > 3 )
[06:22] <dthacker> like mine.  Then they moved to CommVault
[06:23] <dballester> buying hardware, tape libraries and tapes
[06:24] <dballester> yes dthacker but is compatible a yerarly full backup made 2 years ago with tsm recoverable actually with CommValut or another product ? I think no
[06:24] <dballester> this fears a lot of companies to make a movement to adopt another solution
[06:24] <dballester> bacula primary target should be new backup solution implementation 
[06:25] <dballester> it's the only way to go inside enterprise
[06:25] <dthacker> like my little linux universe at work (about 50 machines)
[06:25] <dballester> :)
[06:26] <dthacker> I am just underway on a bacula implementation.
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[06:26] <dballester> the big difference is that using bacula you will know without a doubt how is stored every single byte of your backups
[06:26] <dballester> dthacker, me too
[06:27] <dballester> and will use DVD as backup volume.. ahem... don't ask me why, i'm trying to understand it too :P
[06:27] <dthacker> bbl, time to beat on postfix some more
[06:29] <dballester> mralphabet, if actually doesn't exist something similar to rawdevices script under ubuntu don't worry, redhat is moving to udev and rawdevices will disappear  http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/FAQ_105_9616.shtm
[06:31] <ivoks> hehe
[06:31] <ivoks> so, redhat follows development of new technologies :)
[06:31] <dballester> yep :)
[06:31] <dballester> oracle is doing the same
[06:32] <dballester> moving to DIRECT_IO
[06:32] <ivoks> we should just write rules for udev
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[06:32] <dballester> raw devices seems that will die
[06:33] <ivoks> i don't think so
[06:34] <ivoks> there is no reason for it to die
[06:47] <dballester> ivoks, well, you will do the same with udev 
[06:47] <dballester> and vendors are using new libaries
[06:48] <dthacker> should "postfix" reload pick up changes to /etc/postfix/main.cf?
[06:49] <dthacker> "postfix reload"
[06:51] <ivoks> yes
[06:51] <dthacker> added restrictions are not shown, Cyntaks Airer strikes again!
[06:52] <dthacker> ah, I see it in mail.log.  pebkac
[06:52] <ivoks> as always :)
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[06:56] <dballester> ivoks, sorry, no DIRECT_IO, O_DIRECT 
[06:57] <dballester> http://kevinclosson.wordpress.com/2007/02/23/oracle-direct-io-brought-to-you-by-deranged-monkeys/
[06:58] <dballester> well i will try the udev way to bind to partitions to raw devices under ubuntu
[06:58] <dballester> and see if i can gain some I/O speed with vmware clients
[06:58] <dballester> :)
[06:59] <dballester> is a thest
[06:59] <dballester> *test
[06:59] <dballester> the bind will be done against logical volume :)
[06:59] <dballester> I tried to do the same with ORacle ASM disks and worked :D
[07:05] <dthacker> argh,  postfix reload shows ok in the mail.log but my single change to main.cf does not show. 
[07:08] <ivoks> dthacker: /etc/init.d/postfix reload does postfix quiet-reload
[07:08] <ivoks> and this is something that works
[07:10] <dthacker> worth a shot....
[07:11] <dthacker> nope, something is borked
[07:12] <dthacker> I just added smtpd_helo_required = yes, but postconf -d still shows no
[07:16] <fabbione> dthacker: you want to talk to lamont in #ubuntu-devel
[07:16] <fabbione> he maintains postfix
[07:16] <dthacker> fabbione: tnx
[07:17] <fabbione> just keep the noise low because we are trying to get Release Candidate out
[07:21] <ivoks> hm...
[07:22] <dballester> yup! Cannot open master raw device '/dev/rawctl' :/
[07:23] <ivoks> modprobe raw
[07:24] <dballester> bingo :)
[07:24] <ivoks> dthacker: interesting...
[07:25] <ivoks> this bug is in debian
[07:27] <dthacker> ivoks: I'm back to user error.
[07:29] <dballester> mmhh raw devices needs more work in Ubuntu :/
[07:29] <ivoks> dthacker: check this out
[07:29] <ivoks> postconf -e 'smtpd_helo_required = yes'
[07:29] <ivoks> postconf -d | grep helo_required
[07:29] <ivoks> smtpd_helo_required = no
[07:36] <ivoks> dthacker: maybe it's on purpose...
[07:37] <ivoks> dthacker: i've read that 50% of MTAs don't work with postfix if that is enabled
[07:38] <dthacker> ivoks: I may set it to warn for awhile.
[07:38] <dthacker> bbl, being called to lunch
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[08:00] <FlyingSquirrel33> my server is still on hoary, and when I do a apt-get dist-upgrade it doesn't add any packages. Any ideas?
[08:02] <ivoks> hoary is unsupported for 6 months already
[08:02] <ivoks> breezy is also unsupported
[08:02] <FlyingSquirrel33> there's no way?
[08:02] <ivoks> no
[08:03] <ivoks> 6.06 (dapper) is supported for 5 years
[08:03] <ivoks> you should upgrade to it
[08:03] <ivoks> get a breezy install CD and upgrade to breezy
[08:03] <ivoks> then upgrade to dapper
[08:11] <dballester> see you
[08:12] <FlyingSquirrel33> ivoks:great! thanks, I think I have one around!
[08:23] <FlyingSquirrel33> how do I go about upgrading to breezy with the CD?
[08:23] <fabbione> FlyingSquirrel33: you can also upgrade from the net..
[08:23] <fabbione> no need of a CD
[08:23] <fabbione> but for sure you need to make it in 2 steps
[08:24] <fabbione> hoary -> breezy -> dapper
[08:24] <fabbione> and breezy will be unsupported in 2 days or so
[08:25] <FlyingSquirrel33> fabbione: when I do a apt-get dist-upgrade it doesn't add any packages
[08:26] <FlyingSquirrel33> what am I missing?
[08:26] <fabbione> did you change sources.list ?
[08:26] <fabbione> and did you do apt-get update
[08:26] <fabbione> ?
[08:26] <ivoks> oh, then there's still time :)
[08:26] <FlyingSquirrel33> fabbione: I've heard changing the sources.list breaks things sometimes
[08:27] <fabbione> FlyingSquirrel33: i beg you pardon? and how are you supposed to upgrade then?
[08:27] <ivoks> you have to change it to upgrade it
[08:29] <FlyingSquirrel33> well, I'm no expert, but I've been told to use gksudo "update-manager -c -d"
[08:30] <FlyingSquirrel33> and that the other is not the "correct" way. I could be wrong, 
[08:30] <fabbione> FlyingSquirrel33: if you are on a server there is no such thing as gksudo or update-manager in hoary
[08:30] <FlyingSquirrel33> fabbione: I realize that. I assumed that dist-upgrade is more or less the same.
[08:30] <ivoks> it is, more or less
[08:30] <fabbione> up to dapper dist-upgrade is good enough
[08:31] <fabbione> dapper -> edgy might be a bit rough
[08:31] <ivoks> after you change sources.list
[08:31] <fabbione> edgy -> feisty has the update-manager for server
[08:31] <ivoks> fabbione: i think he would be better of with dapper than edgy for server
[08:31] <ivoks> or desktop even
[08:31] <fabbione> but you need to change sources.list
[08:31] <fabbione> ivoks: for sure he wants dapper
[08:31] <fabbione> so do i
[08:31] <fabbione> my server is still on breezy
[08:32] <Nafallo> feisty <3 :-)
[08:32] <fabbione> i had no time to upgrade it in over a year
=== fabbione feels bad about it
[08:33] <fabbione> and i am sure it will exploit the only corner case for everything on lvm on raid that hasn't been tested in dapper
[08:33] <FlyingSquirrel33> fabbione: ok, so I'll do it one step at a time and use dist-upgrade each time I change the sources.list.
[08:33] <ivoks> you think?
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[08:34] <fabbione> FlyingSquirrel33: yes...
[08:34] <fabbione> upgrade to breezy
[08:34] <fabbione> make sure everything works
[08:34] <fabbione> only after you upgrade to dapper
[08:35] <FlyingSquirrel33> make sure everything works only after I upgrade to dapper... OK
[08:36] <fabbione> check at each step
[08:36] <fabbione> fabbione> upgrade to breezy
[08:36] <fabbione> <fabbione> make sure everything works
[08:36] <fabbione> then... upgrade to dapper
[08:36] <fabbione> and check again
[08:39] <FlyingSquirrel33> k
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[10:43] <FlyingSquirrel33> fabbione, ivoks: everything went fine with breezy, now almost everything's done with dapper except I get exit status 10 while unpacking lvm2. I tried deleting the deb so it would download it again, but it didn't make a difference. Is there a way to trouble-shoot this?
[10:46] <fabbione> FlyingSquirrel33: that can be several reasons.. keep it as last.. 
[10:46] <fabbione> keep doing dist-upgrade until lvm2 is the last one left to upgrade
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