[10:56] <pitti> hi
[10:56] <fabbione> yo
[10:57] <BlueT_> :)
[10:57] <dholbach> hiya
[10:57] <mdz_> it seems that about half the keyboard shortcuts in xchat close the application or a tab
[10:58] <seb128> mdz_: use the other half then :p
[10:59] <mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: is everyone here who's expected?
[11:00] <heno> here
[11:00] <Riddell> hi
[11:00] <asac> i am here ... in case i am expected ;)
[11:00] <kwwii> hi
[11:00] <iwj> Hello everyone ...
[11:00] <mvo> hello
[11:01] <doko> seems to be a slow start today =)
[11:01] <cjwatson> BenC said he wanted to be here, but he may have keeled over with exhaustion
[11:01] <Keybuk> mdz: yes
[11:01] <fabbione> it's also 3/4am there
[11:01] <cjwatson> everyone else is here
[11:01] <cjwatson> fabbione: he was aware of that
[11:02] <mdz> fabbione: 5, but wasn't expecting him at this meeting
[11:02] <pitti> I saw him an hour ago
[11:02] <mdz> BenC: good morning
[11:02] <fabbione> here he is
[11:02] <cjwatson> 00:47 <BenC> would this meeting be opportune time to discuss the kernel upload?
[11:02] <cjwatson> 00:47 <cjwatson> I certainly won't hold it against you if you aren't there, as long as I have all the information needed to represent kernel interests
[11:02] <cjwatson> 00:47 <cjwatson> yes
[11:02] <cjwatson> 00:47 <BenC> then I'll make it
[11:02] <cjwatson> aha
[11:02] <BenC> good morning
[11:02] <mdz> so, welcome everyone.  thanks for being available even though this was a bit last-minute
[11:03] <mdz> the release is creeping up on us, and I think we're a little bit behind where we ought to be right now, so it seemed wise to get everyone together to go over the outstanding issues
[11:03] <mdz> Keybuk and Mithrandir have been reviewing our progress
[11:04] <mdz> Keybuk: would you give an overview of where we stand?
[11:04] <Keybuk> Current status is that the release candidate images prepared yesterday had several problems with them
[11:04] <Keybuk> notably things like the "About Ubuntu" menu option being missing
[11:04] <pitti> #105593 :(
[11:04] <Keybuk> and /etc/lsb, /etc/issue, etc. all being wrong
[11:05] <pitti> ^ is the worst one I found
[11:05] <seb128> about ubuntu, launchpad integration have been fixed yesterday
[11:05] <seb128> bug #105593
[11:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: and accepted into the archive this morning.
[11:05] <Keybuk> we also haven't performed several of the steps leading to the candidate, including hardware certification testing
[11:05] <seb128> Mithrandir: rock on
[11:05] <Keybuk> fabbione: I believe you've got that started now?
[11:05] <mdz> (incidentally, is anyone else having trouble with firefox stalling for a very long time at "Connecting to launchpad.net..."?)
[11:05] <ubotu> Malone bug 105593 in restricted-manager "claims that nvidia is in use on live system" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105593
[11:05] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes already started. we got only one bug so far
[11:05] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, problem is at LP end
[11:06] <seb128> mdz: yeah, it's really really really slow since yesterday :/
[11:06] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think Marc has almost completed the first round
[11:07] <mdz> pitti: the lrm change fixes the immediate problem, right?
[11:07] <asac> mdz: what do you mean by stalled? like no redraw of ui ... or just waiting for server?
[11:07] <pitti> mdz: right, there are actually two problems
[11:07] <pitti> (1) r-m warns you about non-free drivers being in use, taints kernel, prone to raise political discussions
[11:07] <pitti> (2) as soon as an user actually enables nvidia, it is going to break their X because of ABI incompatibility (except if they have a very *very* new card which is not supported by nvidia-glx)
[11:07] <mdz> asac: I did some packet level debugging which I posted to the launchpad list; let's talk about it later
[11:07] <asac> mdz: k
[11:08] <pitti> mdz: thus we would break many X.orgs instead of showing off compiz&co for nvidia users :(
[11:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: but the lrm fix in the queue fixes this, right?
[11:08] <pitti> right
[11:08] <pitti> it's not built yet, though
[11:09] <Mithrandir> I'm driving the publisher by hand now
[11:09] <pitti> but I saw that the source is in the archive
[11:09] <pitti> 'no builds recorded' instead of 'needs build', hmm
[11:10] <mdz> fabbione: is there any estimate of how long the cert tests will take
[11:10] <fabbione> mdz: Marc is working hard to catch up. he promised to be as fast as he can, but no numbers for an ETA
[11:10] <fabbione> mdz: i expect at least another day
[11:10] <pitti> so, we have the l-r-m problem, the hwdb notification, about ubuntu menu items, lsb; we can probably live with any single one of them, but all together look really bad IMHO
[11:11] <mdz> fabbione: I think it is irrelevant for now; either there will be no problems discovered and we can release, or there will be problems and we'll need to delay
[11:12] <fabbione> mdz: as i said.. one bug found so far in n-m already reported by other people. I will be able to tell you more in a few hours when Montreal wakes up
[11:12] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't know about the meeting till this morning, otherwise i would have gathered more info
[11:12] <seb128> pitti: hwdb and about ubuntu are supposed to be fixed now, no?
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: right, should be in the archive
[11:13] <mdz> fabbione: bug number?
[11:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: they are, if you run apt-get update.
[11:13] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, just making sure because pitti listed them
[11:13] <Mithrandir> note however that ubuntu-docs still have "feisty fawn" in them in some places.
[11:13] <fabbione> mdz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/105688
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: argh, no, hwdb-client is still the old one
[11:13] <Mithrandir> (with the version numbers, mind, so it's less bad)
[11:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 105688 in network-manager "NetworkManager applet shows No network connection when there is a network connection (dup-of: 105234)" [Undecided,Needs info] 
[11:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 105234 in network-manager "Netowrk manager says disconnected but is connected and working" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[11:14] <seb128> that's network-manager change is confusing a lot of users
[11:14] <seb128> that network-manager change
[11:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: but it's confusing them rather than leaving them with broken networks.
[11:14] <sladen> NM is teh rock.
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: red herring, drescher has the new hwdb-client, so that's fixed as well
[11:14] <ogra> sladen, the rock we all get buried under ?
[11:15] <seb128> Mithrandir: how hard would it be to display no icon when it's not used?
[11:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: probably doable.  I'll look into it.
[11:15] <seb128> would be great
[11:15] <ogra> seb128, it already does that if i shut down my WLAN (but keep the static iface up)
[11:15] <ogra> as soon as i load the bcm module again, its back
[11:16] <ogra> so juat abusing that function could probably work
[11:16] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: could the n-m bug be due to your most recent change?
[11:17] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, and while the confusion isn't intentional, it is behaving correctly.
[11:17] <Mithrandir> so we need to address the confusion.
[11:17] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: is there an explanation in the bug of the confusion?
[11:17] <seb128> cjwatson: network-manager does the right thing, it says there is no network configured though
[11:18] <seb128> which means is not managing any
[11:18] <Mithrandir> what seb says.
[11:18] <seb128> but have an icon saying "no network configured" confuses users
[11:18] <cjwatson> the bug above only has confused comments from users, AFAICS
[11:18] <cjwatson> it needs an authoritative comment from somebody who understands what is going on
[11:18] <seb128> because there is a network configured and working
[11:19] <heno> I tested it with my father. He was slightly confused, but shrugged when the network worked anyway
[11:20] <Mithrandir> there seems to be a real bug related to the "disable networking" menu item, I need to investigate what's the problem there.
[11:20] <fabbione> wouldn't be possible to change the string to match reality?
[11:20] <fabbione> like: "hey dude.. i can't manage your setup. kthxbye"
[11:20] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it would break translations, but otherwise that's a possibility.
[11:20] <fabbione> we can always unbreak them with langpacks update
[11:21] <fabbione> it's probably the less intrusive change we can do
[11:21] <heno> yes, the string is more confusing than the icon
[11:21] <fabbione> dunno how many langs that string is translated, but i am pretty sure we can fix the major ones within the team
[11:22] <seb128> fabbione: what's wrong with hiding the icon when there is nothing to manage?
[11:22] <seb128> that doesn't break any string
[11:22] <heno> 'Please replug your network cable' would work, because that 'fixes' it for the session :)
[11:22] <mdz> heno: how does that fix it?
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: but you'd lose the menu entry for static configuration or enabling wlan, etc.
[11:22] <fabbione> seb128: nothing.. you need to change code and possibly add other regressions
[11:22] <iwj> BenC: Is bug 99648 the same as bug 53268 ?
[11:22] <cjwatson> heno: sounds more specific than the problem in fact indicates?
[11:22] <mdz> this isn't the time to think about redesigning the UI
[11:22] <seb128> pitti: can you enable wlan when there is not connexion managed?
[11:22] <ubotu> Malone bug 99648 in linux-source-2.6.20 "MMC/SD memory card reader does not work" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99648
[11:22] <ubotu> Malone bug 53268 in hal "On Thinkpad X60s and Z60 SD card reader doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53268
[11:23] <heno> mdz: if you unplu and replug ethernet it behaves as expected until you reboot
[11:23] <pitti> seb128: if you disabled it before, then you'll be in that situation
[11:23] <mdz> it seems there is a genuine issue, but we ought not rush in a poorly thought out change
[11:23] <mdz> heno: why?  I thought in this situation, n-m was ignoring the interface
[11:23] <pitti> disabling wlan temporarily should not cause the icon to go away
[11:23] <heno> I think it ignores it bacause the network is brought up during boot, before n-m
[11:24] <heno> if you 'let n-m find it' it's happy
[11:25] <mdz> heno: but if it's already being managed by ifupdown, that would result in confusion (like two dhclients)
[11:26] <Mithrandir> mdz: except the fact that network-manager kills it as part of its startup.
[11:27] <Mithrandir> void nm_system_kill_all_dhcp_daemons (void)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> { nm_spawn_process ("/usr/bin/killall -q dhclient");
[11:27] <Mithrandir> }
[11:27] <mdz> ...
[11:27] <heno> Mithrandir: so when it does that it should also set a flag so it remembers to check for an active network later
[11:27] <mdz> what a piece of work
[11:27] <fabbione> Mithrandir: and it doesn't always work because sometime we spawn dhclient3
[11:28] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: isn't it dhclient3?
[11:28] <ogra> Mithrandir, could you call that nm_system_kill_all_dhcp_client ??
[11:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: we can kill those too.
[11:28] <Mithrandir> ogra: no.
[11:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we should
[11:28] <ogra> Mithrandir, thats confusing :)
[11:28] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'm not going to change the name of NM-internal interfaces.
[11:28] <fabbione> ogra: no you can't. the nm backends export a standard API towards the rest
[11:28] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: n-m ubuntu5 was a further fix for the problem with people with manually configured interfaces having trouble with n-m claiming they were offline, yes?
[11:29] <Treenaks> what if n-m only manages one of several DHCP interfaces?
[11:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, oh, i thought it was a new function ... ignore me :)=
[11:29] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: it was a revert to the ubuntu3 behaviour, except we don't claim to be offline if there are disabled devices available.
[11:30] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: remind me, was there a bug about that?
[11:30] <Mithrandir> and then the applet is patched to check both the online/offline status and the number of devices managed.  If the number of managed devices is zero, it goes into "we are offline" mode.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, it broke LTSP setups for instance.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> let me find the bug #
[11:31] <cjwatson> we should have a policy that late changes must have a bug# referenced in the changelog
[11:31] <ogra> cjwatson, it hogged static interfaces that are configured in /e/n/i and teared them down because NM allows only one iface to be up
[11:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: why do you kill dhclient, rather than invoke ifdown?
[11:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: that's what upstream does in all backends IIRC
[11:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: you don't want to call ifdown because the interface might be in use for nfs mounts
[11:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: just take over the dhcp process
[11:32] <Keybuk> redhat don't have something quite like our ifup though
[11:32] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I believe that code is either from upstream or from you, I haven't written it.
[11:32] <Keybuk> since ifdown won't work for that interface after you kill its dhclient
[11:32] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: 100021
[11:33] <cjwatson> thanks
[11:34] <cjwatson> BenC: are you still awake?
[11:37] <fabbione> am i still connected?
[11:37] <seb128> fabbione: yes
[11:37] <fabbione> thanks
[11:37] <mvo> fabbione: no
[11:41] <Mithrandir> I could make it use the connected icon and change the tooltip if there are manual devices, would that be good enough?
[11:41] <ogra> sounds like
[11:41] <ogra> as long as it doesnt *always* show the connected icon then at least :)
[11:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: it'll always show it if you have manually configured devices.
[11:42] <heno> Mithrandir: by manual, do you mean eth0 or static IP?
[11:42] <ogra> thats fine
[11:42] <ogra> heno, static ip and auto in /e/n/i
[11:42] <heno> this problem occurs with dhcp too
[11:43] <heno> which is the most common for basic users
[11:43] <Mithrandir> heno: anything not managed by NM.
[11:43] <ogra> you mean if /e/n/i is empty ?
[11:43] <heno> ok, that will work then
[11:43] <ogra> then it shouldnt happen ...
[11:44] <cjwatson> so we have a possible proposal to skip release candidate and release Herd 6 instead
[11:44] <cjwatson> at this point, if we have to delay release candidate, there'll be very little time to squeeze in validation
[11:45] <mdz> we need to hear from Ben about these kernel bugs
[11:45] <mdz> the changes which are proposed are too intrusive for 7 days before release
[11:45] <cjwatson> so Herd 6 would be a much-less-validated set of images
[11:45] <mdz> so if the problems are truly showstoppers, then we are looking at a delay of the release
[11:45] <fabbione> what kind of delay we are talking about?
[11:45] <fabbione> one week? two weeks?
[11:45] <mdz> today was the first I had heard of these issues
[11:45] <mdz> fabbione: unknown
[11:46] <cjwatson> HPA has been on the table for some time and Ben has tested the patch on his array of non-HPA hardware
[11:46] <mdz> fabbione: this change is proposing to switch to an entirely different IDE driver for a huge proportion of Intel based systesm
[11:46] <mdz> (bug 96857)
[11:46] <cjwatson> the PIIX thing I think we should drop
[11:46] <ubotu> Malone bug 96857 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty Beta: debian-installer does not mount cdrom" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96857
[11:47] <mdz> so we have:
[11:48] <mdz> kernel issues: we will have a talk with Ben when he wakes up and review those
[11:48] <mdz> network-manager: Keybuk is looking over the patches and doing some further analysis
[11:48] <mdz> what else is on the table?
[11:48] <fabbione> server installer issues: Keybuk is on it already. bug #105623
[11:49] <ubotu> Malone bug 105623 in devmapper "udev rules missing from udeb" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105623
[11:49] <mdz> certification: we will await results, and have to decide on whether to delay if there are problems
[11:49] <mdz> (fabio tracking)
[11:49] <mdz> fabbione: this is a showstopper?
[11:49] <mvo> I would like to add additional sanity checking into the release upgrader for python, but that should not be controversal I hope?
[11:49] <fabbione> mdz: for RC no (would be enough a release note). For final yes
[11:50] <Mithrandir> fabbione: fwiw, it just worked fine for me.
[11:50] <mdz> fabbione: note that there is unlikely to be an RC unless we delay
[11:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it works.. it only takes ages to work.. so if you don't look at it and go back after a while you don't even notice
[11:50] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ok.
[11:51] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's about waiting 3 minutes for each devmapper device to be created
[11:51] <mdz> mvo: for the CDs?
[11:51] <fabbione> mdz: yeah of course..
[11:51] <cjwatson> just adding those rules to the udeb stands a good chance of breaking the partitioner. I'd veto that.
[11:51] <cjwatson> (because it would bring LVs/whatever up by default which the partitioner isn't expecting)
[11:51] <mvo> mdz: having it on the CD is a bonus, but if its available online that should be fine
[11:51] <fabbione> cjwatson: they are the exact same rules that lands in the installed system
[11:52] <cjwatson> fabbione: the installed system is different in important ways
[11:52] <doko> mdz: bug 105642, bug 105828
[11:52] <cjwatson> release note and point release if we can get the change tested. It's annoying, but fixing it is very risky
[11:52] <ubotu> Malone bug 105642 in linux-source-2.6.20 "kernel panic starting edubuntu dvd in live mode with VGA" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105642
[11:52] <ubotu> Malone bug 105828 in Ubuntu "wrong keyboard layout after LTSP chroot install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105828
[11:52] <Mithrandir> while it's annoying, I don't think it's a showstopper either.
[11:53] <fabbione> cjwatson: i think Keybuk can tell you more about the status
[11:53] <mdz> doko: you are saying that these are showstopper bugs?
[11:53] <cjwatson> fabbione: I've already spoken with Scott about this.
[11:53] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok
[11:53] <cjwatson> keyboard layout> totally not release-critical. dpkg-reconfigure console-setup
[11:53] <ogra> mdz, i'm not yet sure 105828 is a valid one, i havent seen it in any installs here
[11:53] <doko> mdz: well, a kernel panic for the default install? IMO rc for the final; the edubuntu install not.
[11:54] <ogra> mdz, doko and i are still investigating
[11:54] <mdz> doko: I'm asking you; you just gave bug numbers without context
[11:54] <ogra> doko, the panic doesnt happen witjh the CD here
[11:54] <mdz> doko: a kernel panic under what circumstances?
[11:54] <ogra> mdz, framebuffer
[11:54] <ogra> it immediatley dies if it tries frambuffer stuff
[11:55] <ogra> i.e. directly after gfxboot
[11:55] <doko> mdz: 105642: insert the edubuntu amd64 dvd, let it boot alone.
[11:55] <ogra> it either is specific to dokos HW or to the DVD
[11:55] <ogra> i dont see it on two different machines with the CD
[11:55] <doko> ogra: I can recheck with another DVD, but not other hardware
[11:56] <Mithrandir> I can check it here once I finish downloading the edubuntu dvd
[11:57] <heno> I have the Edubuntu DVD, I'll check too
[11:57] <mdz> surely this is not specific to edubuntu
[11:57] <ogra> doko, i find it weird that you have so many bugs i dont see anywhere else ...
[11:57] <mdz> if it is, it's even less potentially serious
[11:57] <ogra> especially the keyboard thing i see no technical way how that could happen
[11:58] <mdz> it's easy enough to test, should not be hardware-specific
[11:58] <cjwatson> I'm burning an Ubuntu amd64 DVD now
[11:59] <ogra> mdz, still i'm missing a logical explanation how a setting in a chroot can influence a confiog file on the host system
[11:59] <cjwatson> ogra: it's not release-critical. please worry about it later
[11:59] <cjwatson> we do not have time to get into extensive research regarding non-release-critical problems
[11:59] <ogra> cjwatson, well ... having all edubuntu installs with US keyboard is something i'd see as RC
[11:59] <cjwatson> I disagree
[12:00] <cjwatson> you can reconfigure it trivially, and furthermore you already said it's not happening to you
[12:00] <ogra> 80% of your users are non english
[12:00] <cjwatson> unless you feel that your testing is in some way inadequate?
[12:00] <ogra> not really ... it worked the last releases :)
[12:01] <cjwatson> I'm not dismissing doko's problem, but I do think that it is not something to delay release for
[12:01] <ogra> if i start seeing it too i'd consider it for edubuntu
[12:02] <ogra> but i dont (yet ?) so this discussion is pointless
[12:03] <mdz> ok, so we have a current direction for each of the outstanding issues I mentioned
[12:03] <mdz> last call for other issues we need to be aware of for release
[12:04] <pitti> bug 104602?
[12:04] <mdz> we are in a delicate state right now, and it's important to know how serious it is
[12:04] <ubotu> Malone bug 104602 in sysvinit "root password visible at emergency console" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104602
[12:04] <pitti> can be fixed in a security update as well, though
[12:04] <fabbione> ah so i was not the only one
[12:04] <fabbione> that's also with upstart
[12:05] <pitti> it's an usplash bug really
[12:05] <Mithrandir> mdz: were you able to reproduce the NM resume from hibernate problem?
[12:05] <pitti> it's not a release blocker, but important IMHO
[12:05] <fabbione> mdz: there is a bug in multipath-tools but i already uploaded the fixed version. it's not worth more discussion here.
[12:06] <Keybuk> pitti: we don't set root passwords by default, and you have to be at the console anyway
[12:06] <kwwii> not a show stopper, but I was hoping to finish a usplash/CD install pic for Xubuntu
[12:06] <Keybuk> definitely not stopping the show ;)
[12:06] <mdz> pitti: definitely a serious issue which should be fixed
[12:06] <mdz> pitti: but I think it can be a security update
[12:06] <cjwatson> CD install images can go in very late, usplash less so
[12:06] <kwwii> is that still possible?
[12:06] <pitti> I agree, but you wanted to be aware of important issues, so I thought I'd mention it
[12:06] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[12:07] <kwwii> cjwatson: in any case, it should be done by tomorrow at the latest - if it is too late, so be it
[12:08] <mdz> if you don't have a release-critical task to work on, please join #ubuntu-bugs
[12:08] <mdz> and help keep an eye out for unexpected issues as they arise
[12:09] <mdz> if you discover something which looks serious, please talk to Colin, Scott or myself
[12:09] <mdz> there will be further communication about the kernel, certification and other outstanding issues as it is available
[12:09] <pitti> so, will we get new RC images?
[12:09] <fabbione> or Herd-6?
[12:09] <fabbione> what's the consensum now?
[12:09] <pitti> well, it's just a name
[12:09] <mdz> we will get new daily builds
[12:09] <mdz> it is unknown whether we will delay the release or not
[12:10] <mdz> and that will determine the plan for remaining milestones
[12:10] <cjwatson> I do not feel we should have a release candidate at this point
[12:10] <fabbione> pitti: well herd-6 will involve a new RC set
[12:10] <cjwatson> unless the release is delayed
[12:10] <mdz> there is no point doing a full validation test of an RC at this point when there are known blockers
[12:10] <cjwatson> pitti: herd-6 => not a complete round of validation
[12:11] <mdz> has everyone done at least one test of each of their assigned ISOs?
[12:11] <mdz> please confirm
[12:11] <pitti> confirm
[12:11] <mvo> yes
[12:11] <Riddell> yes
[12:11] <pkl_> pkl: yes
[12:11] <asac> confirm
[12:11] <cjwatson> I will have done in about one minute when I reboot
[12:11] <mdz> heno: are you able to tell if any tests were outstanding?
[12:11] <Mithrandir> server, not the kubuntu amd64 dvd yet (since cdimage was excessively slow yesterday)
[12:12] <fabbione> mdz: https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting has  a pretty good overview
[12:12] <heno> mdz: https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting
[12:12] <pitti> https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting shows quite a number of (0)s
[12:12] <asac> oh wait ... not yet finished ... will finish later today
[12:12] <heno> netboot is undertested and DVDs
[12:12] <iwj> doko: Thanks for doing those dvd tests btw.
[12:13] <heno> and upgrades, I'm doing some of those now
[12:13] <iwj> Err, dholbach I mean.
[12:13] <iwj> Duh.
[12:13] <mdz> heno: please review with cjwatson and determine whether we need to push some specific cases
[12:13] <doko> iwj: they were assigned to me :)
[12:13] <dholbach> iwj: np
[12:13] <heno> right
[12:13] <mdz> ok, we've taken long enough with this meeting, let's reconvene later once we've filled in some of the unknowns
[12:13] <mdz> adjourned, thanks all
[12:13] <iwj> doko: Were they ?  heno said he was going to give them to me but as it was I didn't get the iso downloaded in time.
[12:13] <dholbach> thanks
[12:13] <mvo> ogra: I can do a round of edubuntu upgrades tests for you if you want
[12:13] <asac> thanks
[12:13] <kwwii> thanks
[12:14] <dholbach> bye asac
[12:14] <ogra> mvo, appreciated
[12:14] <doko> iwj: just the edubuntu amd64 dvd
[12:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, without RC being decided, when would be a good time to upload new langpacks?
[12:16] <highvoltage> you guys rock.
[12:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: after RC
[12:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, but now it's not even clear when or whether that will be
[12:16] <fabbione> pitti: i'd say we keep RC mode until they decide and go from there
[12:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: true.  I'd like to do the current set of images first at least.
[12:16] <fabbione> i see little point in pushing more atm
[12:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: right
[12:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: it can't happen before tomorrow midday anyway
[02:38] <Simira> @schedule Oslo
[02:38] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 22:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council
[02:38] <Simira> what's the difference between "Ubuntu development team" and "Development team"
[02:39] <Simira> ?
[02:39] <Riddell> they can both go
[02:43] <Simira> but the difference?
[02:44] <Riddell> one is old and obsolete, the other is merely obsolete
[02:45] <Treenaks> Riddell: so what's New and Hot?
[02:45] <Simira> right
[02:46] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[02:46] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 12 Apr 15:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 15:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 15:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 10:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 15:00: Community Council
[02:46] <nixternal> argh, who booged up the fridge?
[02:47] <Riddell> Treenaks: like I say, they can both go, the meeting has happened
[02:49] <Treenaks> Riddell: oh like that
[02:49] <Treenaks> Riddell: I thought someone had changed the project's organisational structure without telling anyone ;)
[02:50] <jsgotangco> @schedule manila
[02:50] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 13 Apr 04:00: MOTU | 13 Apr 04:00: Development Team | 13 Apr 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Apr 04:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 18 Apr 04:00: Community Council
[02:53] <nixternal> there fixed :)
[02:53] <Simira> @schedule Oslo
[02:53] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council | 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team
[08:24] <teaker1s> .
[09:54] <dholbach> might be a bit late for the meeting
[09:55] <sistpoty> hi dholbach and somerville32
[09:55] <somerville32> hey : )
[09:55] <Adri2000> hi
[09:56] <ScottK> Hello.
[09:56] <lionel> hi
[10:02] <ajmitch> well, agenda is fairly empty, noone's here
[10:02] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[10:02] <ajmitch> hi
[10:02] <sistpoty> let's get started, shall we?
[10:02] <ajmitch> oh good, sistpoty is awake ;)
[10:03] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:03] <sistpoty> (partly awake... got up before 10am, new record *g*)
[10:03] <Adri2000> 10am, wow! :p
[10:04] <dholbach> ok
[10:04] <ajmitch> dholbach!
[10:04] <dholbach> is the agenda new?
[10:04] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[10:04] <ajmitch> do we have anything to talk about?
[10:04] <dholbach> the charter's on there
[10:04] <sistpoty> erm.. that item was left over from the last agenda
[10:04] <ajmitch> apart from the release, and gutsy
[10:04] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[10:04] <dholbach> ok
[10:04] <dholbach> I have only one small item:
[10:04] <ajmitch> release freeze?
[10:05] <dholbach> the motu-uvf team needs to clean out all bugs and get things uploaded or rejected properly
[10:05] <dholbach> and we should do that RSN
[10:05] <ajmitch> ok
[10:05] <dholbach> we have quite a bunch hanging in a limbo state
[10:05] <dholbach> that's all I can see for now
[10:06] <ajmitch> there don't seem to be that many on the assigned bugs page
[10:06] <dholbach> subscribed?
[10:06] <dholbach> the less the better
[10:06] <ajmitch> LP is slow enough as it is :)
[10:07] <dholbach> what else? is there any use having another universe hug day before release?
[10:07] <dholbach> nice to get LP cleaned up and patches submitted for either release or for SRUs, but will we have time for that?
[10:07] <ajmitch> are we going to have a freeze in the last week?
[10:07] <ScottK> We could have a reject all the left over breezy bugs day next week!
[10:08] <sistpoty> erm... sorry, I'm a little slow today. I can't see any subscribed bugs of motu-uvf?
[10:08] <dholbach> ajmitch: i suppose so
[10:08] <ajmitch> sistpoty: it could be LP failing again :) I just got proxy errors trying to view bugs
[10:08] <dholbach> ScottK: sounds good, but that's something we can clean up after release :)
[10:09] <sistpoty> ajmitch: maybe... it only tells me: "There are currently no open bugs." (with the +subscribedbugs page)
[10:09] <ScottK> OK.  I may get started ahead of time.
[10:09] <dholbach> sistpoty: ok, seems there are only ten
[10:10] <sistpoty> ah, k
[10:10] <ajmitch> of those that are in limbo - sysv_rc_bootsplash, wxwidgets2.8, texmacs
[10:10] <dholbach> ajmitch, siretart, slomo, crimsun and I will take a look at them
[10:11] <dholbach> anything else we should discuss before release?
[10:11] <rmjb> any adjustments in the way MOTU work for gutsy?
[10:11] <ajmitch> targetting the rc bugs list still?
[10:11] <sistpoty> we did have the idea of a harder freeze, with *all* uploads needing to be approved by motu-uvf... are we doing this right now actually?
[10:11] <ajmitch> dholbach: make that 8 on the uvf list
[10:12] <dholbach> rmjb: that we'll discuss after release - atm we'll focus on the release
[10:12] <rmjb> dholbach: ok
[10:12] <ajmitch> ok to reject wxwidgets2.8 uvfe?
[10:12] <dholbach> rmjb: but if you have suggestions, it'd be nice to hear about them - the mailing list might be good to discuss things there
[10:12] <dholbach> ajmitch: ok
[10:12] <dholbach> ajmitch: thanks
[10:13] <dholbach> sistpoty: atm, all uploads get reviewed and checked by the archive admins - dunno how they decide if they wave them through or not
[10:13] <siretart> hi folks - sorry for being late
[10:13] <sistpoty> huhu siretart
[10:13] <ajmitch> it'd be best to clarify things with the archive admins then if they ask
[10:13] <dholbach> hey siretart
[10:13] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[10:13] <dholbach> ajmitch: yeah
[10:13] <sistpoty> dholbach: so it's just regular uploading from the motu pov, right?
[10:14] <dholbach> atm, yes
[10:14] <sistpoty> ok
[10:14] <dholbach> not sure if it's going to change in the remaining 7 days
[10:14] <dholbach> I feel most of us have been quite conservative with their fixes
[10:14] <dholbach> ie small unmetdeps fixes, etc
[10:14] <sistpoty> not quite sure if it's worth the overhead... *shrug*
[10:15] <sistpoty> (to change policy now)
[10:15] <dholbach> yeah
[10:15] <dholbach> ok.... what else? anything we should definitely take care of for the release?
[10:15] <siretart> dholbach: I've asked Tollef about the idea we had regarding removing binary packages with broken deps. The idea got rejected, do you happen to know why?
[10:16] <dholbach> no no idea
[10:16] <sistpoty> let me check the logs... he stated a reason back when I asked him
[10:16] <ajmitch> yay
[10:16] <ScottK> The sneaky solution would be a new source package that you know will FTBFS.
[10:17] <Lutin> ScottK: the former binary version would stay in the archive though
[10:17] <ScottK> Oh.  Nevermind then.
[10:19] <sistpoty> hm... can't find it in my logs :(... iirc the reasons were the overhead for archive admins (it would result in binary new packages) and that it would be quite surprising to have a sru package in binary new
[10:20] <siretart> hm. fair enough
[10:21] <ajmitch> the RC bug in debian was only in the version in experimental
[10:23] <dholbach> ok
[10:23] <dholbach> anything else?
[10:23] <ajmitch> short meeting, I like it
[10:24] <ajmitch> next meeting date?
[10:24] <sistpoty> two weeks from now?
[10:24] <dholbach> 2 weeks?
[10:24] <dholbach> sounds good to me
[10:24] <sistpoty> :)
[10:25] <ajmitch> rotate time or not?
[10:25] <dholbach> next time :)
[10:25] <dholbach> it's not 8 utc atm
[10:26] <ajmitch> no, but we talked about changing it by 12 hours each time to be fair to people like australians :)
[10:26] <dholbach> next time then :)
[10:26] <sistpoty> fine with me :)
[10:26] <ajmitch> k
[10:27] <ajmitch> which means 2 meetings from now, will be during UDS :)
[10:27] <ajmitch> but dholbach_ won't mind that :)
[10:27] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:27] <dholbach_> but I can update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMenuHeader again :)
[10:28] <dholbach_> looks like i missed some part of the conversation
[10:28] <ajmitch> 08:26 < ajmitch> k
[10:28] <ajmitch> 08:27 < ajmitch> which means 2 meetings from now, will be during UDS :)
[10:28] <sistpoty> the menu header is cool btw :)
[10:28] <dholbach> yeah
[10:28] <dholbach> ok good
[10:28] <dholbach> everybody happy?
[10:28] <dholbach> who mails fridge-devel@ and others?
[10:29] <sistpoty> does that mean that you volunteer ajmitch? *g*
[10:29] <dholbach> he's so happy, he can't stop himself :)
[10:29] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:29] <ajmitch> who do I have to contact?
[10:30] <ajmitch> motu list, fridge-devel, devel-announce?
[10:30] <dholbach> fridge-devel@ ubuntu-devel@ ubuntu-motu@
[10:30] <dholbach> yeah, or like that
[10:31] <ajmitch> alright, will do
[10:31] <ajmitch> thanks for showing up :)
[10:31] <dholbach> super
[10:31] <sistpoty> thanks everyone
[10:31] <dholbach> adjourned :)
[10:31] <ajmitch> since I had to find the number :)