[12:20] <k001> hi. all
[12:21] <k001> i try explain my problem, sorry but my english is very bad
[12:21] <k001> i'm create my first packages .deb for Ubuntu
[12:22] <k001> i use $dh_make -e my-email -f ../path/to/file
[12:23] <k001> modify my control, changelog, copyright and rules
[12:23] <k001> after do $debuild -S
[12:24] <k001> and the shell tell me this  dpkg-source -b image2html-1.2
[12:24] <k001> dpkg-source: error: archivo de control debe tener al menos una parte binario del paquete
[12:24] <k001> debuild: fatal error at line 1224:
[12:24] <k001> dpkg-source -b image2html-1.2 failed
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Can you please translate that error message?
[12:25] <k001> sorry
[12:26] <k001> this is a translate of google --->  control file must have at least one binary part of the package 
[12:28] <bddebian> debian/control is missing a binary package section?
[12:29] <k001> what seccion?
[12:29] <bddebian> Package: <foo>
[12:29] <k001> what section?
[12:30] <bddebian> Or you aren't building one in debian/rules
[12:30] <k001> this is my control http://pastebin.ca/435336
[12:30] <bddebian> Yeah, that's the source package.  You need Package: image2html section
[12:31] <ajmitch> put in a blank line before Package: image2html
[12:31] <k001> ok
[12:32] <k001> de image2html section is in line 7
[12:32] <bddebian> Oh shit, I missed that entirely
[12:32] <bddebian> Hmm, I thought we had image2html? But I don't see it
[12:33] <k001> 7.  Package: image2html
[12:36] <k001> ok is done 
[12:36] <k001> but i have other error
[12:36] <k001> the key gpg not found
[12:37] <bddebian> Do you have a gpg key?
[12:37] <k001> yes
[12:37] <bddebian> Make sure your changelog entry matches
[12:37] <k001> let me a second
[12:38] <k001> this is my changelog image2html (1.2-1) unstable; urgency=low
[12:38] <k001>   * Initial release
[12:38] <k001>  -- Ivan Alfredo Zenteno Aguilar <k001.operator@gmail.com>  Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:55:08 -0500
[12:38] <bddebian> Is k001.operator@gmail.com valid for your gpg key?
[12:38] <k001> yes
[12:38] <k001> check in keyserv
[12:38] <bddebian> Hmm
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Does your key have a comment set?
[12:39] <k001> http://keyserv.nic-se.se:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x815adebd
[12:39] <k001> this is y key
[12:39] <Fujitsu> That's the problem.
[12:39] <Fujitsu> The comment has to match exactly too.
[12:40] <k001> the log say 'gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: key secret not avalible 
[12:40] <k001> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
[12:40] <k001> debuild: fatal error at line 1151:
[12:40] <k001> running debsign failed
[12:42] <Fujitsu> The line in the changelog needs to match one of the IDs on the key, including the comment.
[12:42] <k001> how to do?
[12:42] <k001> sorry 
[12:42] <k001> is my first packages
[12:44] <Fujitsu> `Ivan A. Zenteno Aguilar (Mi gmail) <k001.operator@gmail.com>' is what you should be using in the changelog.
[12:47] <bddebian> Later folks
[12:57] <k001> no, i only got  one error
[12:58] <k001> the private key not found
[12:58] <k001> let me a second for to paste the debian/control debian/changelog  
[12:59] <k001> debian/control http://pastebin.ca/435418
[01:00] <k001> sorry is changelog
[01:00] <k001> this is the control :d http://pastebin.ca/435425
[01:03] <k001> this is the log http://pastebin.ca/435442
[01:05] <xtknight> bug 105706
[01:05] <ubotu> Malone bug 105706 in Ubuntu "`GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc+) libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105706
[01:06] <xtknight> hmm darwinia isnt in repos
[01:06] <TheMuso> bug bug 100021
[01:06] <TheMuso> hmm ok. Ubotu suddenly died.
[01:06] <xtknight> bug 100021
[01:06] <ubotu> Malone bug 100021 in network-manager "[Feisty]  LTSP fails on multi-homed server due to network manager touching predefined static interfaces" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100021
[01:06] <xtknight> ;
[01:06] <xtknight> ;)
[01:07] <TheMuso> interesting.
[01:07] <TheMuso> gah I typed it wrong. :)
[01:07] <k001> ok mrs. bye bye readyou tomorrow bye
[01:08] <TheMuso> !test
[01:08] <ubotu> Failed.
[01:16] <xtknight> bug 105683
[01:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 105683 in Ubuntu "Certain  eybord  eys do not wor ." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105683
[01:16] <xtknight> lol..
[01:17] <xtknight> weird
[01:17] <xtknight> he was able to type K in the body but not the summary..
[01:20] <xtknight> bug 105664
[01:20] <ubotu> Malone bug 105664 in Ubuntu "ctrl+alt+backspace logs out, even when the logout shortcut is disabled via prefences->keyboard shortcuts" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105664
[01:21] <xtknight> ok this one is a bit silly
[01:22] <xtknight> what should be done with this?  close the bug since the behavior is by design?
[01:36] <bimberi> xtknight: I've rejected it - with instructions on how to disable c-a-b.
[01:39] <xtknight> bimberi, and what about bug 105706 where he uses a third party game?
[01:39] <ubotu> Malone bug 105706 in Ubuntu "`GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc+) libgcc_s.so.1: version `GCC_4.2.0' not found (required by /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105706
[01:42] <Fujitsu> xtknight: That should be rejected, as the game ships a strange libgcc_s.so.1
[01:44] <xtknight> Fujitsu, doh, how do you close a bug?
[01:44] <bimberi> yes it's not an _Ubuntu_ bug
[01:44] <bimberi> xtknight: click on "Ubuntu" under "Affects"
[01:44] <Fujitsu> xtknight: Click on the package name under Affects, and set it to Rejected.
[01:44] <xtknight> ahhh
[01:47] <xtknight> bimberi, Fujitsu: "confirmed" means that it is definitely reproducible, nothing more, nothing less, is that correct? 
[01:48] <Fujitsu> xtknight: Generally, but not always.
[02:01] <Joe_CoT> how much can i trust dpkg-depcheck as far as figuring out dependencies?
[02:02] <jmg> it could introduce superfluous dependencies
[02:03] <jmg> or miss dependencies required by some options
[02:03] <jmg> the man page itself says it provides a good first approximation
[02:05] <Joe_CoT> ok. how do i check what it's dependent on. For build dependencies, pbuilder makes it easy. do i need to debootstrap and run it in a chroot? is there anything that automates it like pbuilder does?
[02:10] <Joe_CoT> for build-deps, all i had to do is set them in the control file, pbuilder went off and ran, and if i was missing something, it errored out. I'm hoping there's a similarly easy way to do it for dependencies
[02:47] <rmjb> Hey guys
[02:49] <kgoetz> doko: ping?
[03:00] <kgoetz> brb - 30 min
[03:04] <xtknight> i think i fixed the networkmanager thing
[03:05] <xtknight> i'm not 100% sure it's not a messy hack, but it seems to fix the problem.  should i upload the hack and have someone else review it?
[03:09] <ScottK> xtknight: Network manager is a Main package, not Universe, IIRC.
[03:10] <ScottK> I'd attach a patch to the bug and then mention it in #ubuntu-devel.
[03:12] <xtknight> ScottK, okay
[03:13] <ScottK> Dunno for sure how they'll react, but you'll be more famous/infamous.
[03:30] <ajmitch> ScottK: oh is that how you become famous?
[03:30] <ScottK> Maybe.  Either you show up with a good fix at crunch time or you distract people at crunch time with idiocy.  Either way you are famous in that circle anyway.
[03:31] <xtknight> hmm main is frozen right?
[03:31] <ajmitch> xtknight: quite
[03:32] <ScottK> It's also the middle of the night in Europe were a large fraction of the core-devs live.
[03:33] <ScottK> My bit of news is that I got my first package into Debian today!
[03:33] <xtknight> bug 105234
[03:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 105234 in network-manager "Netowrk manager says disconnected but is connected and working" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105234
[03:33] <xtknight> posted it at the last comment.  
[03:35] <ajmitch> right, so you need to wait for someone who has a knowledge of NM code to look at it :)
[03:35] <xtknight> ahh
[03:35] <ajmitch> it's not like anyone can just look at it & see that it'll work
[03:36] <xtknight> i assume people who know about NM would lurk in -devel?  still quite new to this
[03:36] <ajmitch> yes
[03:37] <ajmitch> and the relevant people are in europe, as ScottK said
[03:37] <ajmitch> ScottK: good work on getting stuff into debian - what was it?
[03:38] <ScottK> A Python package I did here on REVU first, pyyaml.
[03:38] <ajmitch> ok
[03:39] <ScottK> The Debian version is a little more mature, so I'll synch over what I did here for Feisty+1.  I could have never done it in Debian though if I hadn't learned a huge amount here first.
[03:39] <ScottK> It helps that the Debian Python Modules Team is very open to new people.
[03:40] <ajmitch> yeah
[03:40] <ajmitch> not like that nasty python team here
[03:40] <ScottK> There was a hazing and everything here before I was one of the gang...
[03:40] <jmg> python is more important to ubuntu than it is to debian
[03:40] <welshbyte> what a coincidence, my first debian package is sitting in the debian NEW queue since yesterday
[03:40] <jmg> ScottK: baptism by fire
[03:41] <ScottK> welshbyte: Which package?
[03:41] <welshbyte> pybackpack
[03:42] <ScottK> welshbyte: Cool.  Did you consider maintaining it through the Python Modules Team?
[03:43] <welshbyte> um, not really, didn't think that applied to desktop apps
[03:44] <ScottK> I'm not sure.
[03:44] <welshbyte> i'm also the upstream for it anyway so it shouldn't be difficult for me to maintain it ;)
[03:44] <ScottK> I think they are called Python Modules because Python packages was taken.
[03:44] <ScottK> I was more thinking of ease of getting uploads if you are not a DD.
[03:45] <ScottK> It took me about 2 minutes to get a sponsor today.
[03:45] <ajmitch> but I'm not in their team
[03:45] <welshbyte> oh i see, well i found a sponsor within a few hours and he said i just need to email him to get future uploads in so that's not a problem
[03:45] <ScottK> Only a small fraction of the Python stuff in Debian is maintained by that team.  I think it's fairly new.
[03:46] <ScottK> OK.  Then I guess don't sweat it.
[03:46] <welshbyte> :)
[03:46] <ajmitch> actually I ended up with 2 or 3 regular sponsors
[03:47] <ScottK> With the Python Modules team you maintain your debian dirs in their SVN so anyone who needs to can easily fix stuff, upload to mentors, and then ask for a sponsor on the team IRC channel.
[03:48] <welshbyte> yay for team maintainership :)
[03:48] <ScottK> It seems to work well enough here.
[03:48] <welshbyte> indeed
[03:50] <Fujitsu> You do have the occasional package which nobody knows anything about, unfortunately.
[03:50] <ScottK> Yes, but in Debian you have packages that the maintainer no longer touches, but won't orphan.
[03:50] <ScottK> No way is perfect.
[04:55] <kgoetz> doko: i'll trying pinging again in about 6 hours, i wont be able to get online again before that. hope to catch you then
[04:58] <superm1> any MOTUs here that could sponsor a very small debdiff?
[04:59] <superm1> bug 93435
[04:59] <ubotu> Malone bug 93435 in mythplugins "mythvideo can't pull data from imdb" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93435
[05:02] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[05:08] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch!
[05:15] <Hobbsee> superm1: doen
[05:21] <ScottK> I've written up a how-to for getting Python packages upstream into Debian through the Debian Python Modules Team.  I'd appreciate review/comments from those of you who know more about packaging than me (i.e. virtually everyone here) - particularly from Toadstool or doko since they are on that team too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
[05:28] <pwuertz> hi, I found a bug in python-scipy. I already reported it to the project and I think we found the solution... but is anyone here who could update the ubuntu package?
[05:28] <Toadstool> ScottK: wow! looks really good, awesome
[05:29] <ScottK> pwuertz: Yes if you are quick
[05:29] <Toadstool> ScottK: you may want to add a few lines about svn-buildpackage/svn-inject
[05:29] <pwuertz> ScottK: ok... give me a second
[05:29] <ScottK> Toadstool: I'd have to figure it out myself first.  Feel free.
[05:29] <superm1> thanks Hobbsee  :)
[05:29] <welshbyte> ScottK: s/Debain/Debian/ in the title :)
[05:29] <ScottK> Argh.
[05:30] <Toadstool> ScottK: it's been a long time since I didn't use this but I'll do it tomorrow, too tired to think tonight :(
[05:30] <ScottK> welshbyte: Fixed.
[05:30] <ScottK> Toadstool: Thanks.  No rush.
[05:31] <pwuertz> ScottK: this is the bug report.... in the last post there is the diff, removing a double free causing the trouble
[05:31] <pwuertz> http://projects.scipy.org/scipy/scipy/ticket/392#comment:6
[05:33] <pwuertz> its the python wrapper around minpack
[05:40] <ScottK> Fujitsu: It's out of my league to figure that one out quickly.  What do you think?
[05:41] <pwuertz> hm? just apply the patch, build, and see if my example still segfaults?
[05:41] <Fujitsu> ScottK: It looks OK, I think.
[05:41] <Fujitsu> I don't see where the first free is, but if it fixes the crash...
[05:41] <pwuertz> thr first free is above the if condition
[05:42] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[05:42] <ScottK> pwuertz: I don't see we have a bug with that issue in launchpad.  Perhaps you could file one.
[05:42] <Fujitsu> Yeah, filing a bug is a good idea, just to keep track of it.
[05:42] <pwuertz> shall I ?
[05:43] <ScottK> Fujitsu: If you are up for more at the same time, Bug #66904 claims to have a simple fix.
[05:43] <ubotu> Malone bug 66904 in python-scipy "cannot use plmesh from scipy.xplt in AMD64" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66904
[05:44] <Fujitsu> I'm currently trying to work out why my Internet connection just slowed down enormously, but I'll take a look in a minute.
[05:44] <welshbyte> ScottK: "In Ubuntu, small changes are often allowed to the source files direct" - is that true?
[05:44] <ScottK> In MOTU it is.
[05:44] <Fujitsu> welshbyte: In cases where there is no existing patch system, yes.
[05:45] <welshbyte> oh, ok, i thought we'd just add a patch system in debian/rules and keep the code clean
[05:46] <Fujitsu> welshbyte: Our top priority is generally minimising delta from Debian.
[05:46] <Fujitsu> If it's using CDBS, a patch system is generally added.
[05:46] <jmg> Fujitsu: stop all those porn torrents already
[05:46] <Fujitsu> But if you're using debhelper, the changes needed for a patch system are large.
[05:46] <Fujitsu> @lart jmg
[05:47] <jmg> i see your @lart and raise you
[05:47] <jmg> !lart Fujitsu 
[05:47] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lart fujitsu - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:47] <jmg> :(
[05:47] <Fujitsu> It's @lart, and only works in -offtopic.
[05:47] <ScottK> The bot is broken just now I think.
[05:48] <Fujitsu> Plus it's broken, yes
[05:49] <ScottK> Toadstool: I also sent the link for that wiki page to stratus to look at (he asked me to write it).
[05:52] <MetaBookfoziS> did they know about some md5sums broken?
[05:52] <MetaBookfoziS> Sikertelen letlts: http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  Az MD5Sum nem megfelel
[05:52] <MetaBookfoziS> Sikertelen letlts: http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/universe/source/Sources.bz2  Az MD5Sum nem megfelel
[05:52] <MetaBookfoziS> ^
[05:52] <pwuertz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-scipy/+bug/105757
[05:53] <ubotu> Malone bug 105757 in python-scipy "segfault in python minpack binding" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[05:53] <Fujitsu> They're not broken.
[05:53] <Fujitsu> More likely your mirror is stuffed.
[05:53] <Fujitsu> Thanks pwuertz.
[05:53] <MetaBookfoziS> it's possible, sorry:)
[05:53] <Fujitsu> Looks like the fix is good, I'll probably upload it in a minute.
[05:53] <pwuertz> I thank you
[05:53] <Fujitsu> Thank you for reporting it.
[05:54] <MetaBookfoziS> stuffed?
[05:54] <MetaBookfoziS> hacked?
[05:55] <Fujitsu> MetaBookfoziS: Probably hasn't finished syncing with the main mirror yet.
[05:55] <MetaBookfoziS> oh, okay
[05:56] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I confirmed Bug #105757.  Should I assign it to you/just leave it be?
[05:56] <ubotu> Malone bug 105757 in python-scipy "segfault in python minpack binding" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105757
[05:56] <Fujitsu> ScottK: I just did the assigning and stuff, but it hasn't finished submitting yet...
[05:57] <ScottK> OK.
[05:59] <Toadstool> ScottK: oh, good to have a DD review it as well
[06:19] <ScottK> Well good night everyone.  I think I've had about as much fun as I can stand for the day.
[06:19] <Toadstool> g'night ScottK 
[06:20] <gpocentek> good morning!
[06:20] <Toadstool> hey gpocentek!
[06:20] <gpocentek> hello Toadstool :)
[06:49] <delmorep> so whats keeping Aptana out of the repos?
[06:49] <Hobbsee> delmorep: someone's time and motivation to put it in, most likely
[06:50] <delmorep> its a most impressive app... puts bluefish et al to shame ;)
[06:50] <Hobbsee> feel free to package it up, put it on REVU, then keep fixing it until it reaches the high quality of ubuntu/debian packages
[06:52] <delmorep> one day
[06:53] <Joe_CoT> hobbsee: thanks! never heard of REVU before. Just found the wiki page
[06:54] <DarkMageZ> Seveas, you around?
[06:55] <tonyyarusso> Anyone familiar with flash in firefox, please look at bug 105614
[06:55] <ubotu> Malone bug 105614 in firefox "[feisty]  Flash site only partially loads" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105614
[06:58] <Jucato> hm.. worksforme... :/
[06:59] <tonyyarusso> Jucato: ya, I haven't found anyone else with the issue yet
[06:59] <tonyyarusso> I've had some say it may be due to my video drivers (ati free)
[07:01] <Jucato> hm... is that possible? O.o
[07:02] <Fujitsu> Jucato: Flash does some strange things.
[07:02] <Jucato> oh yeah... I forgot :)
[07:04] <tonyyarusso> For the record, the problem is actually larger than Firefox.
[07:04] <tonyyarusso> I have now confirmed it in Firefox, Galeon, Epiphany, and Opera.
[07:04] <ajmitch> yay, proprietary code that we can't do anything about
[07:05] <ajmitch> it probably merits an instant rejection
[07:05] <ajmitch> I'd *guess* it could be related to a libx11-6 update
[07:05] <Jucato> except that it kinda works here for me, konqueror and firefox...
[07:05] <ajmitch> but without the source we can't really tell :)
[07:06] <tonyyarusso> Say, as a workaround, can I disable the flash plugin in FF without removing the package?
[07:07] <Joe_CoT> you could install flashgot, which won't load the flash file unless you click on it
[07:08] <Flannel> tonyyarusso: I'm sure there's something you can do in about:something that'll disable flash.  Might ask irc.mozilla.com#firefox
[07:08] <tonyyarusso> right
[07:08] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: You could install gnash. It still wouldn't work, but we wouldn't reject the bug for proprietary software.
[07:09] <ScottK> Toadstool: Thanks for the svn-inject stuff.
[07:09] <bimberi> tonyyarusso: Or you could buy a bike from Giant instead :P
[07:09] <tonyyarusso> bimberi: I don't get a 50% discount on Giant.
[07:10] <ScottK> tonyyarusso: What version of Flash do you have?
[07:10] <bimberi> maybe they don't _need_ to discount :)
[07:10] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: Current feisty flashplugin-nonfree
[07:11] <ScottK> The site you were after earlier worked on my Dapper box with Flash 7 and FF 1.5. 
[07:11] <tonyyarusso> Actually, it happens with the Gnash plugin too
[07:11] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: It worked on Feisty on my box until about Sunday/Monday.  An update broke it.
[07:11] <tonyyarusso> It was Flash 9 though
[07:12] <bimberi> I wonder if it would happen for a windows browser in wine/VM
[07:13] <jmg> url?
[07:13] <bimberi> http://www.specialized.com/
[07:14] <jmg> ah that site
[07:14] <jmg> works on dapper
[07:14] <RAOF> Works on my feisty, which is entirely without flash :)
[07:14] <tonyyarusso> Works on Feisty for everyone but me
[07:14] <tonyyarusso> Oh reallY?
[07:14] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: screenshot?
[07:15] <Fujitsu> Night ScottK.
[07:15] <RAOF> Sorry, no screenshot for now :)
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> k
[07:15] <tonyyarusso> now I'm confused
[07:16] <Joe_CoT> about the REVU repo: the rules say it needs to be able to go into the universe repository. I'm packaging a game engine and a game data package; the engine can go into universe, the data can go into multiverse. is it eligible for REVU?
[07:17] <DarkMageZ> Joe_CoT, which game, just out of curiousity
[07:18] <Joe_CoT> DarkMageZ: World of Padman. I have both packages working, I'm just probably missing out on some of the needed policy elements
[07:21] <Fujitsu> Joe_CoT: That's fine.
[07:21] <Joe_CoT> ok, cool. I'll polish them up and upload them sometime over the weekend. thanks!
[07:21] <DarkMageZ> Joe_CoT, once you've loaded that to revu, could you send me links? i'd like to see how that game plays.
[07:22] <Joe_CoT> DarkMageZ: sure
[07:30] <Joe_CoT> "Your GPG key needs to have an Elgamal secondary key in order to allow encrypting data as well as signing it." How do I tell if I have that?
[07:35] <DarkMageZ> Joe_CoT, have you uploaded your key to a keyserver? what is the number of it?
[07:36] <Joe_CoT> 26E9D77B
[07:44] <DarkMageZ> Joe_CoT, you should be getting an encrypted email soon.
[07:45] <DarkMageZ> Joe_CoT, if you have configured your mail client correctly. you'll beable to decrypt it
[07:45] <DarkMageZ> which also means the encryption works with your key
[07:48] <Joe_CoT> yep, it works well
[07:48] <Joe_CoT> thanks for encouraging me to install FireGPG. I had forgotten about it
[07:48] <Joe_CoT> okay, so that means the key is fine for revu. awesome
[07:49] <DarkMageZ> Joe_CoT, if you want to play around with gpg signing emails. feel free to send stuff to my address.
[07:50] <Joe_CoT> i've signed mails before. I sign my mail when I announce stuff to the LoCo Team. I just didn't know if my key was right for REVU, since they specified "ElGamal" (which i know how to implement, but not how to look for in gpg :) )
[07:51] <Fujitsu> As long as you didn't explicitly create it as DSA-only, it's fine.
[07:52] <Joe_CoT> ok, cool
[07:52] <Joe_CoT> so now i just need to get approved and get the keyring refreshed.
[07:56] <imbrandon> ello all
[07:57] <RAOF> Ey imbrandon 
[07:57] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
[07:58] <imbrandon> heya RAOF and ajmitch 
[08:18] <Fujitsu> Crap.
[08:18] <ajmitch> too late
[08:18] <Jucato> @lart 37 Hobbsee
[08:18] <Jucato> oops :)
[08:18] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Can you convince Sev^eas to allow larting in here?
[08:19] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: maybe whiel in spain.
[08:19] <Jucato> noooo
[08:19] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[08:19] <Jucato> my eyes!
[08:19] <Fujitsu> #37 is truly the worst.
[08:19] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no...having to visit my myspace page (to show that all myspace is evil) is worse
[08:20] <Hobbsee> or maybe that background, with a picture of mneptok...
[08:20] <Fujitsu> Is that the evil rainbow flashy seizure-inducing one?
[08:20] <Hobbsee> ooh, the evil possibilities...
[08:20] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: mneptok isn't so bad :)
[08:20] <Hobbsee> it's a *lovely* background!
[08:20] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I think I was twitching for a day or two after seeing that 
[08:20] <Hobbsee> haha
[08:21] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I forget the URL of your MySpace page... I want to be out of it for the next couple of days.
[08:21] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: lol
[08:21] <AnAnt> ScottK: ping
[08:21] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: http://myspace.com/creamier_oak
[08:21] <Fujitsu> That's the one.
[08:21] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I've seen worse backgrounds
[08:21] <Fujitsu> Hey TheMuso.
[08:21] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
[08:21] <TheMuso> AnAnt: Probably asleep.
[08:21] <AnAnt> k
[08:25] <Fujitsu> @lart ServerPronto
[08:25] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: When are you leaving?
[08:26] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Moving Tuesday.
[08:26] <TheMuso> So will be offline from Monday probably.
[08:26] <Fujitsu> And then for a few weeks afterwards, I presume.
[08:26] <TheMuso> Hopefullynot. We only want to be offline for three/four days at most if possible.
[08:27] <TheMuso> So lucky for me, I'll be off the for week of the Feisty release.
[08:28] <TheMuso> full
[08:29] <Fujitsu> A guy at work was without 'net access for 3.5 weeks due to a series of Telstra stuff-ups with connecting new lines.
[08:29] <Fujitsu> So don't count on it happening quickly.
[08:29] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: why does that sound so familiar?
[08:29] <ajmitch> like new subdivisions being built here that *can't* run DSL to homes
[08:30] <Fujitsu> Planning for the future, I see.
[08:30] <ajmitch> of course
[08:30] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: One plus is that we will be less than a K from the exchange.
[08:31] <ajmitch> of course there was some uproar about it & suddenly telecom found that they could provision DSL to a certain person who complained
[08:31] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Sounds nice and fast.
[08:31] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: If DSL2+ was available, yep.
[08:31] <RAOF> Where are you going, that DSL2+ isn't available?
[08:31] <TheMuso> RAOF: Wentworth Falls on the mountains.
[08:32] <TheMuso> I hope to only be up there for a year at most.
[08:32] <ajmitch> TheMuso: why are you moving?
[08:32] <RAOF> Why?  Wentworth Falls is nice :)
[08:33] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah, but I personally prefer Sydney.
[08:33] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Moving because we currently rent, and parents have found place in the mountains.
[08:33] <TheMuso> Which is where they have wanted to live for ages.
[08:33] <TheMuso> But we eventaully are going to get a unit in Sydney.
[08:33] <TheMuso> WHich is where I will live.
[08:33] <ajmitch> ah right
[08:34] <TheMuso> Am I reading incorrectly in -devel, or is nm being pulled?
[08:35] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Incorrect.
[08:35] <TheMuso> oh ok
[08:35] <Fujitsu> It's being hidden if it isn't managing anything, I believe.
[08:35] <TheMuso> Just one comment from Mithrandir made me wonder.
[08:35] <AnAnt> regarding this bug #105548
[08:35] <ubotu> Malone bug 105548 in acon "Some key combinations don't work under Feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105548
[08:36] <AnAnt> regarding this bug #105548, is there a problem that it is solved using a work around ?
[08:36] <AnAnt> anyone has suggestions for better solution ?
[08:37] <ajmitch> gutsy gibbon? what sort of name is *that*?
[08:37] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: WHAT!?
[08:37] <TheMuso> ajmitch: ??
[08:37] <ajmitch> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.announce/263
[08:38] <Fujitsu> Shudder.
[08:38] <ajmitch> agreed
[08:38] <Fujitsu> That's just... bad.
[08:38] <TheMuso> stupid
[08:38] <Fujitsu> I should have got that, but one of the mail servers that goes through decided to die at 12:30.
[08:39] <RAOF> ajmitch: Its a monkey name.  Surely you know that all good things start with a monkey?
[08:39] <ajmitch> RAOF: it's a sign that everything's being rewritten in mono
[08:39] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Er, yeah.
[08:40] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: heh
[08:40] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hah
[08:42] <Fujitsu> What kind of adjective is Gutsy!?
[08:42] <joejaxx> haha @ Hobbsee 's second to last line
[08:42] <joejaxx> LOL
[08:42] <joejaxx> what about the Gazelle :(
[08:43] <Hobbsee> hah.  monkey business at UDS...that'd be right
[08:44] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: i hope people do not make fun
[08:44] <welshbyte> Fujitsu: i was hoping it would be Gallant
[08:44] <joejaxx> welshbyte: me too 
[08:44] <joejaxx> Gallant Gazelle for me lol
[08:44] <welshbyte> oh well, i'll love it just the same :)
[08:45] <joejaxx> well atleast it was not gutsy gibblets
[08:45] <joejaxx> :)
[08:45] <Hobbsee> The Glossy Gnu will nonetheless play a role in this next release,
[08:45] <Jucato> gutsy gorilla?
[08:45] <Hobbsee> because Ubuntu 7.10 will feature a new flavour - as yet unnamed - which
[08:45] <Hobbsee> takes an ultra-orthodox view of licensing: no firmware, drivers,
[08:45] <Hobbsee> imagery, sounds, applications, or other content which do not include
[08:45] <Hobbsee> full source materials and come with full rights of modification,
[08:45] <TheMuso> oooo sweet
[08:45] <Hobbsee> remixing and redistribution. There should be no more conservative home,
[08:46] <Hobbsee> for those who demand a super-strict interpretation of the "free" in free
[08:46] <lifeless> gaseous gorilla
[08:46] <Hobbsee> software. This work will be done in collaboration with the folks behind
[08:46] <TheMuso> upload for general stuff on feisty's release. Nice.
[08:46] <Hobbsee> Gnewsense.
[08:46] <Jucato> hm... lots of pasting :)
[08:46] <Hobbsee> this'll be interesting
[08:46] <Jucato> Gnubuntu? :D
[08:46] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: That's why the toolchain is almost prepared.
[08:46] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: ah.
[08:46] <Hobbsee> oh, that presumably means they're putting gnewsense into ubuntu
[08:46] <joejaxx> Jucato: gNewSense
[08:46] <TheMuso> As for non-free firmware etc not being present, I'd doubt this will be possible.
[08:47] <Jucato> joejaxx: yeah, I was just playing around :)
[08:47] <joejaxx> TheMuso: gNewSense :)
[08:47] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Gnewsense does it... It's not hard.
[08:47] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: But what is missed out?
[08:47] <TheMuso> I don't mean technically, I mean for users.
[08:47] <Fujitsu> It'll be wireless stuff, mostly.
[08:47] <TheMuso> ipw2{1,2} have non-free firmware, yet they are as common as anything.
[08:47] <imbrandon> ugh
[08:47] <imbrandon> gutsy
[08:47] <Jucato> drivers mos probably?
[08:47] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: heh, yes
[08:47] <imbrandon> nasty 
[08:48] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah... sabdfl's word is law, though.
[08:48] <Hobbsee> so, anyone wanting to work on debian, opensuse, or another distro now?
[08:48] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Debian does it.
[08:48] <Jucato> imbrandon: we're still on G, not on N? :P
[08:48] <Jucato> j/k
[08:48] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: DOes what? 
[08:48] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea i was just explainign that to the co-worjker here
[08:48] <TheMuso> How will my ipw2100 just work?
[08:48] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Excludes ipw2[12] 00 firmware.
[08:48] <imbrandon> actualy we should have skiped g
[08:48] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: It's the free variant, it's not meant to.
[08:48] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: For Grump?
[08:48] <Jucato> imbrandon: I thought so too
[08:48] <Hobbsee> Jucato: heh
[08:48] <Fujitsu> *Grumpy
[08:48] <joejaxx> imbrandon: Gazekke :D
[08:49] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea
[08:49] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'll work on debian
[08:49] <joejaxx> Gazelle*
[08:49] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Ah you mean there is a free firmware version? Ok thats different.
[08:49] <TheMuso> SO what happens to LRM?
[08:49] <TheMuso> Goes puff and disappears?
[08:49] <joejaxx> Grumpy Groundhog is already taken :(
[08:49] <TheMuso> WHat about madwifi?
[08:49] <ajmitch> TheMuso: no, the mail seemed to say that the really-free version is a variant
[08:49] <TheMuso> I'm trying to think from a user's point of view.
[08:49] <ajmitch> not that it'll *all* disappear
[08:49] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'm presuming that the free-only one is just a variant
[08:49] <Fujitsu> `Ubuntu 7.10 will feature a new flavour...'
[08:49] <imbrandon> TheMuso, it appeasrs it will be a deritive not the main
[08:50] <TheMuso> Right.
[08:50] <Fujitsu> Bye ajmitch.
[08:50] <Fujitsu> I hope you recover from the name in that time.
[08:50] <imbrandon> later ajmitch 
[08:50] <imbrandon> it will take 6+ months to recover from this name
[08:50] <TheMuso> heh
[08:50] <imbrandon> i thought feisty was bad
[08:51] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:51] <TheMuso> Feisty is alright.
[08:51] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: We have to live with it for 24 months... :(
[08:51] <TheMuso> Probably because we are used to it.
[08:51] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea
[08:51] <Fujitsu> I thought Feisty was rather odd to start with, but it's sort of grown on me.
[08:53] <Lathiat> hrm, gutsy hey
[08:55] <Hobbsee> [16:54]  <Toma-> gibbons fling poo at each other
[08:55] <Hobbsee> oh *dear*
[08:55] <Jucato> roflmao
[09:00] <joejaxx> unattended-installation infrastructure in Ubiquity  </quote>
[09:00] <joejaxx> would this not be easier with the debian-install cd?
[09:00] <joejaxx> where you just preseed everything
[09:00] <dholbach> good morning
[09:00] <joejaxx> Good morning dholbach :)
[09:00] <TheMuso> joejaxx: Perhaps people don't have that CD, particularly in terms of ship it.
[09:01] <TheMuso> I'm guessing ubiquity will just support the same preceeding system.
[09:01] <joejaxx> oh ok
[09:01] <TheMuso> No need to re-invent the wheel.
[09:01] <joejaxx> i was justing wondering about it
[09:01] <TheMuso> So was I, but it makes sense.
[09:01] <dholbach> hey joejaxx
[09:01] <joejaxx> because you could have the d-i installation half way started before the livecd boots up to full desktop
[09:02] <joejaxx> TheMuso: yeah
[09:02] <joejaxx> dholbach: it is 7 over there?
[09:02] <dholbach> joejaxx: nope, 9:02
[09:02] <TheMuso> joejaxx: No I don't think so.
[09:02] <joejaxx> dholbach: oh
[09:05] <welshbyte> having googled a bit i've decided gibbon's are actually kind of cute
[09:05] <Hobbsee> welshbyte: pic?
[09:06] <Jucato> :D
[09:06] <welshbyte> http://images.google.com/images?q=gibbon take your pick :)
[09:07] <Jucato> yeah cute little ones :D
[09:07] <Hobbsee> hehe, okay, they are kinda cute :P
[09:08] <welshbyte> :)
[09:10] <Fujitsu> I saw a thread on the fora about a mascot idea earlier, I think...
[09:11] <Jucato> not the OS-tan idea? :/
[09:12] <Fujitsu> Jucato: That's the one. Isn't it GREAT?
[09:12] <Jucato> being a fan of anime, I find it great... I don't know about others :)
[09:13] <Hobbsee> hm?
[09:13] <Jucato> "sexy lady from .au" :D
[09:14] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:14] <Jucato> what kind of pulp? :D
[09:14] <jussi01> Hobbsee, where did te long pointy stick of doom go?
[09:15] <Hobbsee> Jucato: a jucato-flavoured pulp
[09:15] <Jucato> ooh :)
[09:15] <Fujitsu> Mmm... Orange juice.
[09:15] <Jucato> O.o
[09:15] <jussi01> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
[09:15] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:15] <jussi01> NOT ME!!!
[09:15] <Jucato> do not put "poke" and "jussi" side by side please...
[09:15] <jussi01> HIM!
[09:15] <joejaxx> what about Cranberry Juice :D
[09:15] <Jucato> or don't read it too fast :/
[09:16] <jussi01> nice work in trademarking it Hobbsee... :P
[09:16] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:16] <Jucato> Fujitsu: seen the replies to Carthik's blog post on the Ubuntu-tan? :/
[09:17] <Fujitsu> Ah, that's where I saw it.
[09:17] <Fujitsu> No, I haven't.
[09:17] <jussi01> lol
[09:17] <TheMuso> She did it!!
[09:17] <welshbyte> is it a pointy cane?
[09:17] <Jucato> is that cane trademarked too? :D
[09:18] <TheMuso> bah! SHe always does that.
[09:18] <Hobbsee> welshbyte: no it isnt
[09:18] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: poor you.
[09:18] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:18] <TheMuso> Ah well, I guess I'd better go again.
[09:18] <welshbyte> candy cane possibly
[09:18] <dholbach> TheMuso: enjoy it
[09:18] <TheMuso> welshbyte: Um, no I don't think so.
[09:18] <Fujitsu> Hmit seems ShipIt gives contributors (not sure how that's defined) options for more CDs.
[09:18] <Fujitsu> Bye,TheMuso.
[09:18] <TheMuso> dholbach: Thanks.
[09:22] <welshbyte> maybe they're hooking shipit up to launchpad so you can spend your karma on extra CDs ;)
[09:22] <Jucato> hehe
[09:23] <Jucato> well, you do use your launchpad account to login to shipit...
[09:23] <Fujitsu> I'm thinking it might use karma.
[09:25] <Hobbsee> RAOF: did you get democracyplayer finished?
[09:25] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Yeah, the updates even hit the repos,.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> RAOF: neat :0
[09:26] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.
[09:27] <Jucato> neat?
[09:27] <RAOF> Well, it means we don't have to remove the brick that was democracyplayer from the repos.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> true
[09:27] <RAOF> I should really learn to say "archives" :)
[09:28] <RAOF> Hey, in return could you port the restricted manager to Kubuntu?  I'd like to be able to say "just run the restricted manager" :)
[09:30] <joejaxx> ajmitch: do you have time for a conversation about ubuntu-server later?
[09:46] <pwuertz_> hi, I'm using feisty, and I cant find "checkinstall" in the repository anymore... am I supposed to use a different tool for building packages?
[09:47] <Fujitsu> pwuertz_: checkinstall is one of the Great Pillars of Evil.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> !packagingguide
[09:47] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[09:47] <jussi01> lol
[09:47] <jussi01> true though
[09:48] <RAOF> pwuertz_: Also, last time I tried to use it (admittedly a *long* time ago) checkinstall was just plain broken.
[09:48] <Fujitsu> pwuertz_: You're on amd64?
[09:49] <pwuertz_> i386
[09:49] <Fujitsu> Oh, good. Must be missing on more architectures than I thought :D
[09:49] <pwuertz_> the last time I used checkinstall... I had some 3rd party software... I was supposed to install it with "make install"... and I had it packed with checkinstall within a minute
[09:50] <pwuertz_> clean install / uninstall, thanks to checkinstall
[09:50] <Fujitsu> !checkinstall
[09:50] <ubotu> checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
[09:50] <Fujitsu> It doesn't create proper packages.
[09:51] <pwuertz_> I'm not saying checkinstall shall be used to create proper packages so they could be included in some repositories....
[09:51] <Fujitsu> Oh, good. Saying that is almost unforgivable.
[09:52] <pwuertz_> but I dont get the point in going though the whole package building process in order to install some random software thats not in the repository and never will be
[09:53] <pwuertz_> I think doing a "make install" as root is more evil than building a package with checkinstall for yourself
[09:54] <Fujitsu> But some people then distribute the packages that checkinstall creates.
[09:54] <RAOF> pwuertz_: Why not do a "make install" as your user, and install the software for your user only?
[09:54] <pwuertz_> its a compiler and a library
[09:54] <pwuertz_> and it needs a directory in /etc
[09:55] <pwuertz_> its expected to be installed in opt
[09:55] <pwuertz_> and if someone wants to reinstall it / setup it on another machine... I dont want him to go through the whole patching / building process
[09:56] <RAOF> Why not package it up, though.  With CDBS, it's a matter of minutes to create a really crappy pacakge.
[09:57] <pwuertz_> sure... I could just take an hour for building 3 proper packages... but checkinstall would have done a better job
[09:57] <siretart> so it's gusty, eh?
[09:57] <siretart> gutsy, even
[10:00] <Seveas> DarkMageZ, ?
[10:01] <pwuertz_> you said, when doing "make install"... you can install into another directory?
[10:01] <pwuertz_> not in "/" ?
[10:02] <Fujitsu> pwuertz_: --prefix passed to configure is your friend.
[10:02] <Seveas> Fujitsu, hmm, I'd need some more acks for that
[10:02] <pwuertz_> Fujitsu: but this could affect the source as well
[10:03] <pwuertz_> Fujitsu: if I want to install it to some tmp directory for packaging? how is this done?
[10:03] <pwuertz_> maybe there is no configure at all
[10:03] <Fujitsu> pwuertz_: Oh, like that.. What kind of build system does it use?
[10:03] <pwuertz_> make
[10:03] <pwuertz_> I'm supposed to do a make install
[10:03] <pwuertz_> as root
[10:04] <DarkMageZ> Seveas, oh. i was having a problem with falcon under fesisty. something about not being able to load module falcon.conf
[10:06] <pwuertz_> Fujitsu: I found DESTDIR, but this parameter seems to be ignored by the install target
[10:08] <dholbach> checkinstall is no option
[10:08] <pwuertz_> then tell me another option ^^
[10:09] <dholbach> we can't make use of checkinstall for packaging
[10:09] <pwuertz_> I never told you to use checkinstall
[10:09] <dholbach> right... I never interpreted it that way
[10:10] <pwuertz_> I want to use checkinstall, but It seems some guys are telling me what to do or not to do
[10:11] <pwuertz_> fine... so could anyone please tell me how to "make install" into a temp directory so I can do manually what checkinstall already did for me nicely?
[10:11] <dholbach> pwuertz_: what are you trying to do?
[10:11] <Jucato> !compile
[10:11] <ubotu> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first: not all !repositories are enabled by default!)
[10:12] <pwuertz_> I already compiled the software... please stop rtfm me and tell me how to tell "make install" to install into another directory
[10:13] <highvoltage> pwuertz_: I think you need to provide more information on what you're doing. people will help you if you allow them to.
[10:13] <pwuertz_> ok... I'll try again
[10:14] <Fujitsu> pwuertz_: It depends on the application/
[10:14] <pwuertz_> make install will install software to the root directory
[10:14] <pwuertz_> i dont want that
[10:14] <Fujitsu> You'll have to read the documentation or the Makefile.
[10:15] <pwuertz_> i want make install install software to a temp directory so I can take the files and pack ist
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Or does it use auto{make,conf}?
[10:15] <Jucato> And I quote: "For example, by default the configure script installs to /usr/local. If you want to change the path, you would execute the configure script as shown below: /configure --PREFIX=/opt"
[10:16] <pwuertz_> Jucato: maybe I dont have a configure
[10:16] <pwuertz_> there must be a generic way to catch the files "make install" tries to install to / so you can pack it
[10:16] <Jucato> then you'll have to be more specific then. how was the Makefile made?
[10:16] <Fujitsu> pwuertz_: There's no standard for Makefile behaviour!
[10:17] <pwuertz_> right...
[10:17] <Jucato> make install will only follow the directions in the Makefile which is usually generated by the configure script (afaik)
[10:17] <pwuertz_> i know
[10:17] <pwuertz_> but I also know that there is a software to overcome this problem
[10:17] <imbrandon> ...
[10:18] <Jucato> maybe imbrandon will have better luck :)
[10:18] <pwuertz_> its called checkinstall... no matter what "make install" does... it collects the files and puts it into a package
[10:18] <imbrandon> pwuertz_, sure but it dosent check deps or anything else
[10:18] <pwuertz_> because you(?) took checkinstall away from me... I'll have to do that manually
[10:18] <Seveas> DarkMageZ, the falcon packages are meant for dapper/edgy, not feisty. They're known not to work
[10:19] <Jucato> doesn't checkinstall just install in the directories indicated by the makefile as well?
[10:19] <imbrandon> Seveas, falcon 2.0 kthxbye :)
[10:19] <Seveas> imbrandon, working on it
[10:19] <DarkMageZ> Seveas, i rebuilt the package under feisty.
[10:19] <imbrandon> hehe i know
[10:19] <Seveas> implemented part of your 'i want my own metacomponents' request the other day
[10:19] <Seveas> DarkMageZ, that still won't work :)
[10:20] <DarkMageZ> :(
[10:20] <imbrandon> Seveas, rockin
[10:20] <pwuertz_> yes... and I dont need that... I dont need no deps checks... I dont need no proper package specifications.... I just want to install software by apt instead of letting some random software mess with my system!
[10:20] <DarkMageZ> Seveas, what changed?
[10:20] <imbrandon> pwuertz_, sure thats all and well UNTILL you try to use that deb on another machine
[10:21] <Seveas> DarkMageZ, python
[10:21] <pwuertz_> imbrandon: I'm not dumb... I know what I'm doing
[10:21] <imbrandon> pwuertz_, we're not here to argue, if you want to use it fine, but just know it WILL break if you use the deb on a diffrent machine than what made it and 2 we wont support it in here, even if its for your machine
[10:22] <imbrandon> pwuertz_, rockin, go to it then
[10:22] <Seveas> no sane person will support it :)
[10:22] <imbrandon> :)
[10:22] <pwuertz_> I never said I want to build a supported package! all I want is a clean system
[10:22] <Fujitsu> Anyway... checkinstall is in the repos except for amd64 and ia64.
[10:23] <imbrandon> pwuertz_, i realize that, but what i dont realize is why we;re still talking about this
[10:23] <pwuertz_> checkinstall is not in my repos anymore
[10:23] <pwuertz_> (feisty)
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Do you have universe enabled?
[10:24] <Fujitsu> It's definitely there.
[10:24] <pwuertz_> yes
[10:24] <Seveas> !info checkinstall
[10:24] <ubotu> checkinstall: installation tracker. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.0-2ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 88 kB, installed size 392 kB
[10:24] <Seveas> !info checkinstall feisty
[10:24] <ubotu> checkinstall: installation tracker. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.1-1ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 111 kB, installed size 540 kB
[10:24] <imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$ apt-cache madison checkinstall
[10:24] <imbrandon> checkinstall | 1.6.1-1ubuntu1 | http://mirror.imbrandon.com feisty/universe Packages
[10:24] <imbrandon> checkinstall | 1.6.1-1ubuntu1 | http://mirror.imbrandon.com feisty/universe Sources
[10:24] <imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$
[10:24] <Fujitsu> checkinstall | 1.6.1-1ubuntu1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au feisty/universe Packages
[10:24] <imbrandon> sure it is
[10:25] <pwuertz_> deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ feisty main restricted universe multiverse
[10:25] <pwuertz_>  sudo apt-get install checkinstall
[10:25] <pwuertz_> E: Couldn't find package checkinstall
[10:25] <siretart> checkinstall | 1.6.0-2ubuntu1 | feisty-universe | amd64
[10:25] <siretart> checkinstall | 1.6.1-1ubuntu1 | feisty-universe | source, i386, powerpc
[10:25] <siretart> so it FTBFS on amd64 for some reason
[10:25] <Fujitsu> siretart: It FTBFS on 64-bit archs
[10:26] <siretart> Fujitsu: version 1.6.0-2ubuntu1 did got built, however
[10:26] <pwuertz_> ah ok sorry... now its there.... a few hours ago the repository was broken
[10:26] <siretart> !info xine-lib
[10:26] <ubotu> Package xine-lib does not exist in edgy, edgy-backports, edgy-seveas
[10:27] <siretart> !info libxine1
[10:27] <ubotu> libxine1: the xine video/media player library, binary files. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.2+repacked1-0ubuntu3.4 (edgy), package size 3146 kB, installed size 6820 kB
[10:27] <pwuertz_> someone messed with the mf5 hashes
[10:27] <siretart> so the bug only reacts to binary files. interesting
[10:27] <imbrandon> siretart, ?
[10:28] <siretart> binary packages
[10:28] <imbrandon> ahh ubotu ? not sure
[10:28] <Seveas> it does
[10:28] <imbrandon> !info xine-lib feisty source
[10:29] <Seveas> won't work :)
[10:29] <imbrandon> heh
[10:29] <ubotu> Package xine-lib does not exist in feisty
[10:29] <siretart> ubotu: it does exist! I know for sure ;)
[10:30] <imbrandon> Seveas, maybe !srcinfo [..]  ? ( after falcon 1.99999999999beta1 ofcourse )
[10:30] <siretart> anyway
[10:31] <siretart> doesn anyone have news about removing binary packages with unmet deps from the feisty archive?
[10:31] <DarkMageZ> Seveas, what i find odd tho. is if i install the edgy package onto feisty (oh noes). is that even tho apt has a cry about broken packages. falcon works.
[10:31] <imbrandon> i'm not a fan of removing the source to said packages , just the binarys, but no , no news here
[10:32] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ, there are diffrences between the python versions, it wont work as expected
[10:32] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ, trust me i was the first feisty guiny pig about a week after feisty repos opened
[10:33] <siretart> imbrandon: removing the source has never been discussed. only about broken binary packages
[10:33] <imbrandon> siretart, coool
[10:33] <jmg> falcon?
[10:33] <imbrandon> brb phone
[10:34] <imbrandon> jmg, a repo tool made by seveas
[10:34] <minghua> ok, another word learned from codename
[10:34] <imbrandon> jmg, http://seveas.imbrandon.com/dists/edgy-seveas/all/   <-- second package listed on that page, click "more"
[10:38] <jmg> cool
[10:51] <jmg> nice app
[11:31] <Adri2000> heya
[11:38] <sacater> Adri2000: hello
[11:41] <geser> Hi Adri2000
[11:47] <imbrandon> Seveas, you should have an "about falcon" page somewhere , so like i dont have to tell people like above :)
[11:47] <imbrandon> i can point them to a real url / about blurb :)
[11:48] <Fujitsu> !falcon
[11:48] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about falcon - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[11:53] <imbrandon> wb
[11:53] <imbrandon> !gutsy
[11:53] <ubotu> Gutsy Gibbon will be the next release name of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html
[11:53] <Admiral_Chicago> \o/
[11:53] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You cruel, cruel person.
[11:54] <imbrandon> lol
[11:54] <Fujitsu> s/the next release name/the code name of the next release/
[11:55] <ajmitch> hey thoreauputic 
[11:55] <ajmitch> joejaxx: did you have something to talk about with me?
[11:55] <thoreauputic> hi ajmitch  :)
[11:55] <imbrandon> !no gusty is <reply> Gusty Gibbon is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html
[11:56] <Fujitsu> Thanks imbrandon.
[11:56] <ajmitch> hah
[11:56] <ubotu> I'll remember that imbrandon
[11:56] <ajmitch> the farting monkey release
[11:56] <imbrandon> lol
[11:56] <highvoltage> imbrandon: should be Gutsy, not Gusty?
[11:56] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Please fix that!
[11:56] <ajmitch> s/gusty/gutsy/ please :)
[11:56] <Fujitsu> What highvoltage said.
[11:56] <Fujitsu> A little wrong :P
[11:56] <imbrandon> arg
[11:56] <ajmitch> otherwise I'll think of farting monkeys all the time ;)
[11:57] <highvoltage> HAH!
[11:57] <imbrandon> !forget gusty
[11:57] <ubotu> I'll forget that, imbrandon
[11:57] <damko> hi all
[11:57] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You made the mistake twice! Nice.
[11:57] <Fujitsu> Hi damko.
[11:57] <imbrandon> !no gutsy is <reply> Gutsy Gibbon is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html
[11:57] <ubotu> I'll remember that imbrandon
[11:58] <Fujitsu> That's better :)
[11:58] <ajmitch> hm I see the universe freeze dates are set for gutsy already
[11:58] <ajmitch> I presume we can change those if we desire
[11:58] <imbrandon> huh ?
[11:58] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Where?
[11:58] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
[11:58] <imbrandon> i would assume so
[11:58] <ajmitch> keybuk's mail to -devel
[11:59] <Fujitsu> I should have guessed.
[11:59] <ajmitch> s/devel/devel-announce/
[11:59] <Fujitsu> What an annoying time for mekong to go down... I have none of my normal mail.
[12:00] <damko> i'm trying to create a deb package. i have some bash scripts and I would like a deb package to install them on more than one machine. i read part of the debian guide for mantainers but it seems that it fixes on C sources ... and I can't understand how to go on. is there someone who wants to join this kind of "project" with me and someone ready to help?
[12:00] <ajmitch> instead of the normal 'make install' calls, you copy the scripts into place
[12:01] <damko> a tgz file is not enough to reach the target cause i need to make some configurations during the setup process
[12:01] <damko> i would like something interactive
[12:01] <ajmitch> at package install time, or at build time?
[12:01] <damko> at package install time
[12:01] <ajmitch> if at install time, use maintainer scripts such as postinst
[12:02] <damko> ajmitch: pls consider i am a big newbie in packaging
[12:03] <ajmitch> !packagingguide
[12:03] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[12:03] <ajmitch> iirc the packaging guide does cover some of this stuff as well
[12:03] <damko> ubotu: thanks a lot
[12:03] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about thanks a lot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:03] <ajmitch> :)
[12:03] <Fujitsu> ubotu, thanks.
[12:03] <ubotu> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
[12:03] <damko> :-) it's a bot
[12:05] <damko> ajmitch: thanks 4 the support
[12:05] <damko> i keep on reading
[12:05] <ajmitch> no problem, there are docs on the maintainer scripts on the debian wiki as well
[12:05] <damko> is there none who want to join this small project ?
[12:18] <imbrandon> i think most of already have enough on our plates
[12:18] <imbrandon> :)
[12:20] <jussi01> damko, whats the project?
[12:23] <damko> jussi01: wait a sec telephone
[12:25] <damko> jussi01: i want to create a deb package (my first :-) )
[12:25] <damko> jussi01: are u interested ?
[12:29] <jussi01> damko, yeah, but whats the deb for?
[12:30] <damko> jussi01: i have some bash scripts
[12:30] <damko> and some files with settings
[12:30] <damko> that i want to install on more than one machine
[12:30] <damko> the target are:
[12:31] <damko> - install the scripts in some fixed directories (and this could be done using a tgz)
[12:31] <damko> - checking dependencies
[12:31] <damko> (i need some sw to be installed to run the scripts)
[12:32] <jussi01> ok, so what program is all this playing with?
[12:32] <damko> - running a wizard to set up the config files
[12:32] <damko> jussi01: the target is not the program but the .deb
[12:34] <johandc> Do i have to be a MOTU to create an SRU? - The main openafs kernel module is broken in edgy, and the current maintainer has left. There is a strong urge for an SRU, but nobody to do it. So i thought i would like to give it a shot. - But the SRU procedure seems hard to to, when i don't know how to upload stuff.
[12:36] <Fujitsu> johandc: You just need to get a MOTU to do the uploads.
[12:37] <johandc> Fujitsu: Okay, that sounds reasonable. So i should just create the debdiff and upload it to the bug-report... Are there a guide how to create the debdiff then?
[12:37] <Fujitsu> !debdiff
[12:37] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about debdiff - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Hm.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> You create the new source package, then run `debdiff old.dsc new.dsc'
[12:39] <johandc> Allright then, i would like to upgrade from 1.4.1 to 1.4.4, so basically i can just download the official tarball and move the .debian folder from the old source package to the new one, and apply appropriate changes to the new one?
[12:40] <johandc> What if there are ubuntu-specific patches on the old source pacakge?
[12:40] <Fujitsu> That's not going to happen.
[12:40] <Fujitsu> You need to isolate the patch that fixes it.
[12:42] <johandc> Well, that is pretty impossible, since it's a problem with the kernel headers and that version of openafs that cannot compile
[12:42] <Fujitsu> How?
[12:42] <Fujitsu> You need to find the patch that fixes that problem.
[12:43] <johandc> It has never worked with 2.6.17 and 1.4.1, so i would say that it's a pretty big regression. It's fixed in 1.4.2. But the openafs maintainer has already commented on it and says that it would be very hard to write a patch to make 1.4.1 work on edgy.
[12:45] <johandc> Say, then, that this issue cannot be fixed because 1.4.1 was the version accepted for edgy, and the MOTU's don't want to change version numbers. Could it perhaps be accepted in proposed or backports?
[12:45] <johandc> 1.4.1 has a security flaw as well, so i suppose there should be a patch for -security as well?
[12:45] <DarkMageZ> backports should not be used to fix issues. they should be used to add features.
[12:47] <johandc> I understand. But 1.4.1 probably will never work with 2.6.17 kernel headers, so i would say, making openafs actually wokring again, is a pretty neat feature :) - But yes, this is also why we discussed adding it as a SRU. Basically because 1.4.1 will not work.
[12:48] <johandc> The problem now is: 1) SRU won't accept because of version bump from 1.4.1 to 1.4.4, 2) backports will not accept 1.4.4 because it's fixing the issue that 1.4.1 is not working.
[12:49] <johandc> Is the _only_ solution, to create a patch that makes 1.4.1 work on the 2.6.17 kernel headers? The openafs maintainer himself has stated that this will be a hard task, so i really don't want to try that. - The general suggestion is to update to 1.4.2 or 1.4.4 (because of security flaw in 1.4.2)
[12:49] <johandc> .
[12:54] <imbrandon> it could be backported to make it work, but rember backports isnt on by default sooo if 
[12:54] <imbrandon> there is a security flaw there needs to be a patch for 1.4.1 also in -security
[12:55] <johandc> Okay, it seems like somebody with a little more experience than me, needs to suggest where to place this.
[12:56] <johandc> One thing is for sure though, nobody is going to patch the security stuff and the kernel headers stuff back to version 1.4.1 - So i guess it will never be accepted for SRU, and openafs will be broken in edgy forever :(
[12:57] <imbrandon> well being on backports and seeing that no one is willing to fix a securioty issue in an existing version, i'm reluctant to approve a new backport
[12:58] <damko> someone knows someone involved in mantaing some deb packages like phpmyadmin or phpgroupware?
[12:58] <imbrandon> damko, its a group effort by the MOTU
[12:58] <damko> yes I read in apt-cache show phpmyadmin
[01:00] <johandc> imbrandon, i know that bumping version numbers is discouraged when fixing issues, especially security issues; but when 1.4.1 is 100% broken anyways, it cannot break anything that isn't already broken... So maybe it could be an argument for a SRU version bump?
[01:01] <imbrandon> johandc, not discouraged, just plain not done, and sru is a totaly diffrent story, you have 3 diffrent issues you are bringing up here with 3 diffrent solutions
[01:02] <DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, oh. i rebuilt the patch... it oddly enough still fails :s
[01:02] <imbrandon> you can backport yes, and get 1.4.4 in, but rember backports is NOT on by default so it cannot be used for security soo you also need a patch for -security , and security will ONLY accept patches for the current version
[01:02] <imbrandon> so in other words you must do both, not one or the other like you seem to think
[01:02] <damko> imbrandon: i would like to speak someone involved in packaging for that kind of projects
[01:03] <johandc> imbrandon, okay, what about the issue that the current version 1.4.1 cannot compile against the kernel headers, how is that fixed? - Creating a patch to make 1.4.1 work, is not an option.
[01:03] <imbrandon> damko, you are in the right place then, this is the home of the MOTU :)
[01:03] <Fujitsu> If it were up to me, I'd say backporting 1.4.4 would be the best course of action.
[01:03] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, right, thats part of the equasion
[01:04] <damko> imbrandon: i have to go afk for 45 min. after i'll bother u if u will be available :-D
[01:04] <Fujitsu> There's no point issuing a security fix for 1.4.1, as it doesn't build anyway.
[01:04] <DarkMageZ> since openafs doesn't work at all in edgy. it's worth replacing the entire thing with a new version.
[01:04] <imbrandon> if there is no binarys no
[01:04] <Fujitsu> If fixing 1.4.1 is pretty much getting 1.4.4, we may as well backport it.
[01:04] <DarkMageZ> you're not going to kill off any users who can't use something that doesn't work
[01:08] <ajmitch> damko: yes, what about phpgroupware?
[01:08] <johandc> Fujitsu: I see your points.
[01:08] <allee> johandc: ah, great you look into openafs!
[01:09] <ajmitch> hm too late, I guess damko is gone
[01:10] <johandc> Allee, yes, i read Bjorn's reply on #52298 and it thought, if nobody was going to do it, i might as well. Since this is very annoying, having to hand-build the modules for each kernel update.
[01:10] <allee> johandc, imbrandon: go for an SRU with 1.4.4.   Everyone seriously using afs will use the backported ones.  
[01:11] <Fujitsu> New upstream versions in SRUs are simply not done.
[01:11] <allee> johandc: building the kernel modeles has still to be done by everyone.
[01:11] <imbrandon> i'll be happy to review it and help with questions but i cannot prepare a SRU for it
[01:11] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, sure they are in some cases
[01:11] <imbrandon> rare, but can be
[01:11] <johandc> Okay, so are we trying to get it into backports then?
[01:12] <imbrandon> johandc, if you want to prepare a backport, i'll +1 it after a review
[01:12] <allee> johandc: we need to talk to the kernel guys an see if they can agree to build openafs-modules-*-<flavour> too
[01:12] <johandc> Okay, i'll have to read up on it, since i have never done it before :)
[01:13] <allee> johandc: great, then I can have a time for fai-kernels
[01:13] <johandc> allee, why? Isn't the modules build manually with module assistant? Or are you suggesting that the kernel guys could supply pre-compiled modules?
[01:13] <allee> johandc: you can use the recipe I posted in the bug report.  Just adapting dch args to match the SRU requirements
[01:14] <imbrandon> allee, it will need to be a -backpoprt not SRU
[01:14] <allee> johandc: yes, everyone installing afs need to run module-assistant
[01:14] <allee> imbrandon: oh, right.  sorry.
[01:15] <johandc> Okay, i think i'm clear what to do now.
[01:15] <imbrandon> johandc, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports   <--- has a section about requesting and preparing a backport
[01:16] <johandc> Just one final question, are SRU always this tight? We are talking about replacing a package that is broken anyways. In fact, removing 1.4.1 from the repos will save alot of people some time realising it cannot build.
[01:16] <imbrandon> johandc, basicly you make sure the version in feisty will compile with no changes in edgy and file a request
[01:16] <johandc> imbrandon: Thanks a lot for the link :D
[01:17] <imbrandon> johandc, yes, actualty tighter, you have to rember this will be an update for potentialy 8 million users for a STABLE release, every change it scrutinised
[01:17] <imbrandon> no matter how "sane" it seems
[01:18] <allee> imbrandon: honestly.  I'm pretty sure, either openafs 1.4.1* has a security bug in edgy forever, or 1.4.4 is eventually approved for SRU too.   1.4.* is used in production environment world wide.  A break in 1.4.1 -> 1.4.4 is 'almost impossible'.
[01:18] <ajmitch> night all
[01:18] <Fujitsu> Night ajmitch
[01:18] <imbrandon> allee, i know, i'm just going by the book here for the moment
[01:18] <imbrandon> :)
[01:18] <imbrandon> gnight ajmitch 
[01:18] <allee> imbrandon: :)
[01:18] <Fujitsu> allee: 1.4.1 doesn't really exist in Edgy, does it?
[01:18] <allee> night ajmitch 
[01:20] <johandc> Fujitsu: openafs-modules-source 1.4.1-4 in universe
[01:20] <allee> Fujitsu:   User space part of 1.4.1-4 in in edgy.  Kernel space part FTBFS. 
[01:20] <Fujitsu> allee: There's no security risk if it FTBFS, surely?
[01:21] <johandc> what is FTBFS?
[01:21] <Fujitsu> Fails to build from source.
[01:21] <johandc> Ahh :)
[01:21] <allee> Fujitsu: I've not checked if the sec bug is in user or kernel space
[01:23] <allee> Fujitsu: nevertheless it's a regression.  It worked in dapper
[01:24] <johandc> allee, i'm just realising that we have to backport openafs-(client|dbserver|doc|fileserver|kpassw|krb5|modules-source), libopenafs-dev and libpam-openafs-kaserver for them all to be consistent. :-/
[01:24] <Fujitsu> Or you could wait a week.
[01:24] <Fujitsu> That's probably the better idea.
[01:24] <allee> johandc: yes, but that's not more week
[01:24] <allee> s/week/work/
[01:25] <johandc> Okay, i'll look further and see what i'll come up with.
[01:25] <allee> johandc: when you build openafs-module-sources .deb you get the others debs for free\
[01:25] <allee> johandc: feel free to ping me
[01:25] <johandc> Arhh, since it's the same source package.
[01:25] <johandc> Thank you.
[01:26] <johandc> by ping, do you mean IRC?
[01:26] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[01:26] <imbrandon> johandc, yes "ping" is a term used on irc often to get someones attention
[01:51] <johandc> What is an UVF exception?
[01:52] <Hobbsee> !uvfe
[01:52] <Fujitsu> An upstream version freeze exception.
[01:52] <Hobbsee> !uvf
[01:52] <siretart> johandc: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstreamVersionFreeze
[01:52] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uvfe - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:52] <ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
[01:52] <johandc> Thank you :D
[01:52] <ivoks> heh... i tough Fujitsu is bot :)
[01:53] <siretart> hey ivoks!
[01:53] <johandc> Cool reply speed :D
[01:53] <siretart> ivoks: long time no see, how are you doing?
[01:53] <johandc> Brb.
[01:54] <ivoks> siretart: yeah... i'm idling as a MOTU for some time, and will continue that for next couple of months (finishing my faculty)
[01:54] <ivoks> siretart: other than that, great... you?
[02:02] <siretart> ivoks: oh, I've more or less finished with faculty, now I'm working there
[02:03] <ivoks> nice ;)
[02:03] <ivoks> i've started my own company... :)
[02:05] <saispo> (i found why...)
[02:10] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Via postal address?
[02:10] <Hobbsee> StevenK: unfortunately not
[02:23] <damko> imbrandon: are u busy?
[02:24] <damko> let's say i'm trying to package a folder with php files ... something like phpmyadmin
[02:24] <damko> do I need .configure and make files to build a package?
[02:26] <StevenK> No.
[02:27] <damko> StevenK: i'm following the debian mantainer guide ... but it seems it was wrote for common projects with source files and so on ...
[02:27] <damko> i can't find the solution ... have u any suggestions?
[02:31] <StevenK> damko: Follow it through for a small project that does need compiling, like hello, because that will allow you to understand the process so you can tackle the PHP package
[02:33] <damko> StevenK: do u suggest to package a small project for which already exist a package downloding it from the source?
[02:34] <StevenK> damko: Yeah, download something small, delete the debian directory, and follow the debian maintainer guide.
[02:34] <StevenK> damko: Then you can compare what you did with the existing package.
[02:34] <damko> StevenK: thanks for the suggestion
[02:36] <damko> StevenK: at the same time i'm writing a simple txt file "how to package a php project for debian" . is there a suggested place in which I should upload it to share it?
[02:36] <StevenK> No idea about that, sorry.
[02:36] <damko> StevenK: thanks again
[02:36] <Hobbsee> ubuntu wiki, id' suggets
[02:36] <damko> Hobbsee: thanks
[02:47] <nixternal> MOTU meeting today correct?
[02:47] <geser> nixternal: yes, 20:00 UTC
[02:48] <nixternal> someone has scheduled the meeting the same time as the DevTeam Meeting
[02:48] <StevenK> Which has been moved to 900UTC
[02:48] <Hobbsee> iirc
[02:48] <Hobbsee> ahh
[02:49] <StevenK> (Devel, not us)
[02:49] <Hobbsee> ah.
[02:49] <StevenK> And yes, 2000UTC == 0600EST
[02:50] <Hobbsee> StevenK: call it AEST, else you'll do my head in...
[02:50] <Fujitsu> How unfortunate.
[02:50] <Hobbsee> EST seems to refer to the US timezone
[02:50] <Fujitsu> +1 Hobbsee
[02:50] <StevenK> Except in /usr/share/timezones
[02:50] <Hobbsee> true
[02:50] <zul> you aussies are wacky
[02:50] <nixternal> yup, 0900 UTC for the Dev team meeting, a little scroll up in #-meeting told me that one ;p
[02:50] <Hobbsee> which is, incidently, why they changed the LP tiems to be x minutes ago
[02:51] <StevenK> Hah
[02:51] <StevenK> Neat. date takes any $TZ it doesn't know about as UTC.
[02:52] <StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15209/
[02:53] <ScottK> But I find the X minutes ago thing really annoying as I have to then refresh the page (and wait for LP - again) to find out when something happened...
[02:53] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Or hover your cursor over the time.
[02:53] <ScottK> Oh.  Never tried that.
[02:55] <ScottK> How about that? Another odd, but useful LP UI but that I'd have never guessed was there.
[02:56] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Thans.
[02:57] <Fujitsu> I only discovered that when I complained about the new display format in #launchpad soon after it appeared.
[03:13] <torkel> imbrandon: the (security)fix in bug #94787 should work in both dapper and edgy. I have no way to try them though and as the version in edgy is broken anyway I don't know if it is worth the work to upload a broken version
[03:13] <ubotu> Malone bug 94787 in openafs "Openafs has a security hole with enabled suid" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94787
[03:13] <torkel> sorry for missing the discussion about SRU of Openafs
[03:14] <torkel> s/SRU or backporting/
[03:26] <imbrandon>  torkel not a problem
[03:26] <imbrandon> i'll look after work
[03:28] <jekil> hello
[03:28] <Hobbsee> hiya
[03:39] <ScottK> Based on the discussion we had here last night (for me) on changing source versus patching, I added a bit to the MOTU FAQ on it.  I'd appreciate it if someone who actually knows what they are doing would review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
[03:41] <StevenK> ScottK: Looks fine to me.
[03:41] <ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
[03:46] <damko> i'm looking at yada (Yet Another Debianisation Aid) 
[03:46] <damko> it's used to build phpmyadmin package
[03:46] <damko> it seems simple and useful
[03:46] <ScottK> damko: Has it been debianized?
[03:46] <damko> do u know some other tool like it to suggest to me?
[03:46] <damko> ScottK: yes it is
[03:47] <Hobbsee> damko: it's not.  it sucks.
[03:47] <Hobbsee> damko: it deserves to die, do not, under any circumstances, use it.
[03:47] <Hobbsee> damko: use debhelper, cdbs, but not yada.
[03:48] <damko> Hobbsee: thanks
[03:48] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yada's a bloody terrible, illogical, piece of software
[03:48] <damko> Hobbsee:  which one do u suggest for php projects to be packaged?
[03:48] <StevenK> I swore about it slightly less than scons.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, well.  i havent dealt in scons (much)
[03:49] <Fujitsu> scons is really annoying.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> damko: debhelper.  or cdbs.  either works
[03:49] <Fujitsu> CDBS == good
[03:49] <StevenK> Fujitsu: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/w/wengophone/wengophone_0.99+svn4511-4ubuntu4/changelog
[03:50] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Note the first item. That only took six hours.
[03:50] <Fujitsu> <3 scons
[03:50] <damko> Hobbsee: thanks again
[03:59] <TheMuso> Afaik we have hard freeze from today do we not?
[03:59] <Hobbsee> something like that
[03:59] <Hobbsee> you can probably get little fixes in
[04:01] <sacater> the hard freeze
[04:01] <sacater> yes..
[04:15] <sacater> has anyone been making any progress with peoples wifi troubles
[04:15] <sacater> or wireless, both are a bit problematic
[04:15] <Hobbsee> sacater: a whole lot seems to be pebkac, or undistributable
[04:16] <sacater> k
[04:16] <sacater> theres just a lot of talk about it
[04:16] <sacater> thought i might ask
[04:17] <sacater> ScottK: thanks, ill remmeber that
[04:17] <danirus> Hi siretart, I've a question about REVU
[04:19] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:19] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[04:19] <sacater> bddebian: hello there
[04:20] <bddebian> Hi Jucato, sacater
[04:20] <Jucato> :D
[04:20] <sacater> :D
[04:20] <Hobbsee> sacater: yes.  all the i3945's are pebkac, i know that much
[04:20] <sacater> Hobbsee: okies
[04:20] <Hobbsee> ScottK: whcih card?
[04:20] <Hobbsee> sacater: seeing as i've got that, it works *fine*
[04:21] <Hobbsee> sacater: seems that NM is playing havoc a bit, and a lot of people are running static IP's too - which NM doesnt handle
[04:22] <ScottK> Hobbsee: D-Link AirPlus DWL-G650 Wireless (rev.C) - Atheros AR5212 (rev 01) - See Bug #86742 for all the card details.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ahhh, so that's moved to l-r-m now...
[04:23] <Hobbsee> wait, wasnt that in l-r-m for edgy too?
[04:23] <ScottK> Lovely: [10:22]  <ubotu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: timed out
[04:23] <Hobbsee> nice card, that
[04:24] <ScottK> I can check for sure, but I have no recollection of installing l-r-m when I installed Edgy.
[04:24] <ScottK> I don't think I even knew what that was at the time I did it.
[04:25] <Hobbsee> should have installed by default, i would think
[04:26] <ScottK> Well maybe that's it, but then it didn't install by default for Feisty.
[04:26] <ScottK> (back when I installed Feisty)
[04:26] <Hobbsee> right
[04:27] <Hobbsee> this installed l-r-m for feisty, and upgraded correctly
[04:27] <Hobbsee> but i've not tried a clean feisty install
[04:27] <sacater> why dont people make a fallback system so people can go back systems
[04:27] <sacater> from feisty to edgy for example
[04:27] <Hobbsee> sacater: because the effort is better spent in other things
[04:28] <StevenK> Because downgrades are *HARD*
[04:28] <sacater> :P
[04:28] <Hobbsee> sacater: and there's a limited supply of resources
[04:28] <StevenK> Upgrade package a from version 1 -> 2 ; run a binary provided by a which upgrades its config in an incompatible way ; downgrade back to 1 ; run binary and boom.
[04:29] <ScottK> sacater: I test on my laptop that has (relatively) easily swapped hard drives with a spare drive.
[04:37] <sacater> is it me or is launchoad super-laggy
[04:37] <jussi01> sacater, it always is
[04:37] <sacater> launchpad*
[04:37] <sacater> well seems more than normal
[04:37] <Hobbsee> it is
[04:38] <rrittenhouse> im experiencing that too
[04:39] <sacater> oh ive shot up 4000 karma in a few days
[04:39] <sacater> LD
[04:39] <sacater> :D
[04:40] <rrittenhouse> im still at 0 :( haha. Ive only added some comments to some bugs...afraid of messing the bug reports up or something. Not doing it right..who knows ;)
[04:41] <sacater> rrittenhouse: little tip, answer questions, that gets karma right up
[04:41] <xtknight> how does your karma rise ?
[04:41] <rrittenhouse> it was more of a confirmation of a bug
[04:41] <xtknight> ratemykarma ? :P
[04:41] <sacater> xtknight: how do you mean, do you mean how the calculate it
[04:41] <rrittenhouse> Like after the updates yesterday the Network Manager icon shows the interface as being down but in all reality its all working just fine.
[04:42] <xtknight> sacater, yeah
[04:42] <sacater> xtknight: i dont know! all i know is that questions get a lot
[04:43] <rrittenhouse> Does someone have to actually assign the karma or does the system see that you answered a question...
[04:43] <Hobbsee> rrittenhouse: i doubt you will
[04:43] <zul> karma is overrated
[04:44] <rrittenhouse> haha. Its interesting though..
[04:44] <crimsun> hear hear
[04:44] <ScottK> rrittenhouse: See https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad if you want to get more involved in triaging/updating bugs.
[04:45] <imbrandon> and #ubuntu-bugs
[04:45] <dholbach> and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[04:45] <rrittenhouse> I'm a member of the group on LP.. have been since OpenWeek.
[04:45] <rrittenhouse> I just need to try a little harder and not be so afraid of screwing things up ;)
[04:45] <bddebian> WTH is OpenWeek?
[04:45] <rrittenhouse> wasnt it Ubuntu OpenWeek
[04:46] <rrittenhouse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[04:46] <sacater> rrittenhouse: its automatic
[04:46] <rrittenhouse> sacater, ah neat.
[04:46] <sacater> ScottK: im on that team  :P
[04:47] <ScottK> I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam based on the comments and contributions (thanks Toadstool) I got here and from stratus.  I'd appreciate another review if anyone has a moment.
[04:47] <Hobbsee> bddebian: clearly you were sleeping.  was ages ago
[04:47] <bddebian> Hobbsee: I'm just clueless :'-(
[04:47] <Hobbsee> bddebian: or have just forgotten about it
[04:48] <stratus> ScottK: oh, thanks. I'll read and reply your other message after my lunch. :-)
[04:48] <ScottK> bddebian: Maybe, but some of us (me) are even more clueless.  Please go fix up my wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
[04:48] <rrittenhouse> Yeah it was last year...thats when I triaged a bug or two and really I stopped. Im not sure if it was the complexity of Launchpad that I didnt understand or if it was the procedures that were not clear to me. Either way I needed to mess with it some more
[04:49] <zul> isnt there another one coming up?
[04:49] <sacater> Hobbsee: ill take a brain too pleas
[04:49] <xtknight> brains are overrated
[04:50] <rrittenhouse> xtknight, The issue where the icon isnt correct on startup?
[04:50] <xtknight> yeah...that..
[04:50] <rrittenhouse> xtknight, Got a bug # for that?
[04:50] <xtknight> well it looks like n-m is totally bugged
[04:50] <rrittenhouse> hmm
[04:50] <xtknight> it's fighting with ifconfig,dhclient and lots of stuff
[04:51] <rrittenhouse> nice, nice.
[04:51] <xtknight> LP is ~down but bug# 105234
[04:51] <xtknight> 13 dupes so far
[04:51] <rrittenhouse> yeah i realized that it was down hmm
[04:51] <rrittenhouse> ok
[04:51] <rrittenhouse> thanks for the bug# ill check it out in a bit..
[04:51] <xtknight> i had a prelim patch for it that fixed it for me but it looks like there are more underlying issues
[04:52] <rrittenhouse> ah i see
[04:52] <rrittenhouse> Did you create the patch?
[04:52] <xtknight> my second patch attempt yeah.  i have only one actualyl in ubuntu currently
[04:52] <rrittenhouse> back up here.. for now
[04:53] <rrittenhouse> thats awesome though
[04:53] <rrittenhouse> hey at least you made attempts haha
[04:53] <xtknight> can't guarantee it won't shut down the universe... ;P
[04:53] <rrittenhouse> rofl
[04:55] <rrittenhouse> i need some of that
[04:55] <xtknight> black coffee?
[04:55] <sacater> no
[04:55] <sacater> some cheap thing from LIDL
[04:56] <sacater> i get lots for lets
[04:56] <sacater> less*
[04:56] <sacater> when is there an motu meeting, a place where all motu meet up
[04:56] <Nafallo> sacater: which of them? :-)
[04:56] <sacater> fosdem?
[04:56] <rrittenhouse> hmm wonder what they are doing to LP...
[04:56] <sacater> rrittenhouse: trashing it
[04:56] <rrittenhouse> haha
[04:56] <xtknight> just making it slow for fun
[04:56] <rrittenhouse> so wrong
[04:57] <xtknight> so we can all suffer
[04:57] <sacater> THE PAIN!!
[04:57] <sacater> :P
[04:57] <rrittenhouse> Maybe if I leave for a bit..and go make something to eat itll be back up when I return haha.
[04:57] <rrittenhouse> brb
[04:57] <sacater> is it possible to make irssi have 2 windows split down teh screen
[04:57] <crimsun> ScottK: edited.
[04:57] <sacater> so i can see 2 rooms at once
[04:58] <ScottK> crimsun: Thanks.
[04:59] <StevenK> sacater: Yes
[04:59] <sacater> StevenK: do tell..
[04:59] <sacater> please.
[05:00] <StevenK>  /window new ; /window goto 5
[05:00] <sacater> ok
[05:00] <johandc> allee: Are you there?
[05:00] <sacater> okerm
[05:00] <sacater> it works
[05:01] <sacater> how do i change whats in the top one?
[05:01] <ScottK> crimsun: Thanks again.  Those changes definitely made the page better.
[05:01] <StevenK> Switch it to and /window goto
[05:01] <StevenK> s/\(it\) \(to\)/\2 \1/
[05:03] <sacater> ScottK: erm nope
[05:03] <sacater> ScottK: i cant control it
[05:04] <ScottK> sacater: Can't control what?
[05:04] <sacater> i have 2 windows, plus a highlight at the top
[05:04] <sacater> im talking with thje bottom window
[05:04] <sacater> how do i use the top one
[05:05] <sacater> ScottK: here is a screenie http://omploader.org/file/Screenshot-143.png
[05:08] <sacater> all fixed
[05:08] <sacater> just restarted irssi
[05:08] <sacater> remove the changes
[05:12] <johandc> !backports
[05:12] <ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
[05:12] <johandc> !packaging
[05:12] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[05:14] <sacater> ubuntu rules..
[06:28] <superm1> Seveas, ping
[06:40] <allee> johandc: hi back
[06:40] <johandc> Hi
[06:41] <johandc> Critical moment, i'm on my way out the door.
[06:41] <johandc> I successfully built all the 1.4.4-1 packages from feisty
[06:41] <allee> johandc: great!
[06:41] <johandc> Did it in a clean qemu edgy environment
[06:41] <johandc> But i'm experiencing some problems though
[06:42] <johandc> sudo /etc/init.d/openafs-client restart does not work
[06:42] <johandc> The module fails to unload correctly
[06:42] <johandc> Please try if you can do the same.
[06:42] <allee> johandc: mhh, does depmod -a    help?
[06:42] <johandc> maybe
[06:43] <allee> johandc: oh you wrote unload, not load
[06:43] <johandc> But dmesg spouts alot of memory errors
[06:43] <johandc> There are no problems loading the module in the first case.
[06:43] <allee> johandc: which old openafs version.  I've see these unload errors too
[06:43] <johandc> I can also connect to our afs server, but some issues persist.
[06:44] <allee> johandc: I'll try here with my debs ...
[06:44] <johandc> It seems that the connection disappears some times
[06:44] <johandc> Please also try kinit, aklog and browse afs.
[06:44] <johandc> When i return i can create a new bugreport about the unload errors.
[06:44] <allee> johandc: I always use klog
[06:44] <johandc> what's the difference?
[06:45] <allee> johandc: good question ;)
[06:46] <johandc> Well, i got to go.
[06:46] <johandc> I'll look into the troubles a bit later this evening.
[06:46] <allee> johandc: I'll be here for some more hours
[06:46] <johandc> Maybe the problems is our server, and not the client.
[06:46] <johandc> See you then
[06:47] <allee> johandc: see you
[07:33] <slytherin> dholbach: ping
[07:39] <slytherin> mehulved: Once a UVF has been granted, who is responsible for uploading new version of package?
[07:45] <lionel> slytherin: a MOTU
[07:48] <slytherin> lionel: Actually, I had filed a UVF long ago. It was approved within a week. But no one touched it after that. I was hoping that package maintainer will upload new version.
[07:49] <lionel> do you have the bug number?
[07:49] <lionel> (I am not a MOTU, I can not upload)
[07:49] <slytherin> lionel: 2 minutes
[07:53] <slytherin> lionel: launchpad not accessible :-( The bug is in package devede
[07:54] <damko> mmm i give up .... debhelper and cdbs are really a nightmare ... too complex to me
[07:54] <damko> really the use of yada is deprecated ?
[07:55] <damko> or isn't there any other tool suggested for a simple approach to deb packages?
[07:57] <ScottK> cdbs is usually pretty simple.
[07:58] <damko> ScottK: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml may be i'm stupid .. but ... what to say .. to difficult 4 me
[07:59] <ScottK> Can you find an existing php package you can copy off of?  That's how I did my first one.
[07:59] <damko> ScottK: yes done php-doc and phpmyadmin are quite clean
[08:00] <damko> anyway I really can't understand how to write, in a serious way, the rules file and the others
[08:04] <slytherin> lionel: bug 95153
[08:04] <ubotu> Malone bug 95153 in devede "Please sync to latest version 2.12 from debian-multimedia" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95153
[08:04] <kofler> Can you add custom made Debian packages to an apt-mirror run on a LAN without setting up a separate repository?
[08:06] <dholbach> slytherin: pong
[08:06] <damko> kofler: ... u should find a way to add your package to the list file
[08:07] <kofler> damko: Well, in this particular case, it's a patch that's trivial and wouldn't be sufficient for the community at large.
[08:08] <kofler> damko: But there is another package I will seriously consider doing that for.
[08:08] <kofler> damko: Although, REVU doesn't seem to be reviewed very often any more.
[08:08] <slytherin> dholbach: if you are not too busy can you please take care of bug 95153? The UVF was granted long time back but looks like package maintainer is too busy to upload new version.
[08:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 95153 in devede "Please sync to latest version 2.12 from debian-multimedia" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95153
[08:09] <dholbach> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[08:09] <dholbach> slytherin: I'm quite busy... sorry
[08:09] <damko> kofler: I don't think I'm the right to discuss this topic
[08:09] <slytherin> dholbach: No issues. I will check the link.
[08:10] <damko> kofler: sorry
[08:10] <damko> have to go
[08:10] <damko> bye and thanks
[08:10] <dholbach> kofler: do you want to get a patch included in Ubuntu or what are you trying to do?
[08:10] <kofler> dholbach: Two separate things.
[08:10] <dholbach> slytherin: thanks for all your work too
[08:11] <kofler> dholbach: One package is something I will never consider submitting to Ubuntu. Put it this way, I made something use case insensitivity (by modifying the upstream source) when it currently resides using case sensitiveness.
[08:11] <kofler> dholbach: The other package is something that a lot of people seem to want but no one seems to want to put the effort in. I know the process for this, so I will do that later on.
[08:11] <kofler> dholbach: My question for the first package was how to add that package into the apt-mirror hosted locally without setting up a separate 'localhost' repository.
[08:12] <dholbach> kofler: Ok, I see. Feel free to ping in here or on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com if there's not enough attention on your new package
[08:12] <dholbach> kofler: thought it will be rather gutsy and not feisty (we're too late in the game for NEW packages)
[08:12] <kofler> dholbach: I also have a couple of packages on REVU, but I don't see a large number of them not being reviewed. I just wanted to categorically put that out there.
[08:12] <kofler> gutsy is the name for feisty+1 now eh? Interesting...
[08:12] <dholbach> kofler: we are working on improving the process
[08:13] <dholbach> kofler: "gutsy gibbon" - Mark announced it today
[08:13] <kofler> dholbach: That's always good to hear :)
[08:13] <dholbach> kofler: for now, please ping either in here or on the motu mailing list for a review
[08:13] <dholbach> kofler: if that doesn't help - drop me a mail and I'll take some time to review those packages
[08:14] <dholbach> kofler: are you using apt-ftparchive?
[08:15] <dholbach> ok, I need to leave for now - see you later in the motu meeting
[08:21] <bddebian> Damnit, I was SOO hoping for Grumpy Gnu
[08:22] <kofler> Does that mean that all the new packages put into REVU should be using gutsy wherever they were currently using feisty?
[08:23] <bddebian> Once it opens they will need changed yes
[08:23] <kofler> Darn.
[08:45] <nixternal> OK, I need a sed monkey
[09:08] <sistpoty> hi folks
[09:08] <somerville32> Hello
[09:23] <Lin> how can I change a keymap on feisty? I couldn't find any keymap on /usr/share/keymaps/. What is setupcon? it hasn't a man page?  What happned with old linux wizardy? Im scared! 
[09:23] <Lin> hi all ;-) before ;-)
[09:42] <sacater> hey, i removed wacom tools from my xorg.conf, and now xserver dosnt work
[09:42] <sacater> whats going on?
[09:45] <_MMA_> sacater: Put it back. Same thing happened to me but I didnt look into it yet.
[09:45] <sacater> upload /var/log/Xorg.0.log please
[09:45] <sacater> rafb.net/paste will do
[09:46] <sacater> okay wtf
[09:46] <sacater> i didnt say that...
[09:46] <sacater> yes you did
[09:46] <sacater> gah!
[09:46] <sacater> not me!
[09:47] <sacater> oh yes you did!
[09:47] <sacater> okay wtf is that
[09:47] <sacater> sacater
[09:47] <sacater> is it spaceinvadr?
[09:47] <sacater> i dt
[09:51] <sacater> haha
[09:52] <sacater> magical pixie dust
[09:52] <sacater_> its not me
[09:52] <sacater_> someone is using my irssi
[09:52] <sacater_> i sweat
[09:52] <sacater_> i swear*
[09:52] <sacater_> grr
[09:52] <sacater_> and i know who it is too
[09:53] <gnomefreak> easy way to fix that
[09:53] <sacater_> ?
[09:53] <sacater_> tell..
[09:53] <sacater> nah
[09:53] <sacater> that would be telling
[09:53] <gnomefreak> log off  ;)
[09:53] <sacater_> i tried that
[09:53] <sacater_> he is abusing screen on a mates servewr
[09:53] <sacater_> server*
[09:54] <sacater_> he cant do sacater_ as thats local
[09:56] <spaceinvader> haha pixie dust
[09:57] <sacater> ok i think i am me again
[09:57] <sacater> sorry about that
[09:57] <sacater> someone abused my mates server admin abilities
[09:57] <sacater> and took over screen
[09:58] <spaceinvader> i abused you ;p
[09:58] <spaceinvader> and su sacater, screen -x isnt exactly "taking over"
[09:58] <sacater> yes
[09:58] <sacater> another screenie...
[09:59] <sacater> its a PITA
[09:59] <spaceinvader> anyway, both of you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.*.log
[09:59] <sacater> very wekk
[10:00] <sacater> mine is working now
[10:00] <sacater> sorta
[10:00] <sacater> i did startx
[10:00] <sacater> and it came back, but sometimes it fails sometimes not
[10:00] <sacater> ill paste though...
[10:00] <spaceinvader> btw
[10:00] <spaceinvader> i did that since i found you hacking
[10:00] <sacater> hacking?
[10:00] <sacater> what was i hacking?
[10:00] <spaceinvader> rm -rf bin/
[10:00] <spaceinvader> rm -rf spaceinvader/
[10:00] <spaceinvader> that isnt nice
[10:01] <sacater> hee hee
[10:01] <sacater> well yeah..
[10:01] <spaceinvader> even if you dont have the permissions, thats still intent
[10:01] <sacater> no..
[10:01] <sacater> can we shake up and declare 'even'
[10:01] <spaceinvader> yes
[10:01] <spaceinvader> maybe
[10:01] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.20.log.old
[10:01] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.20.log
[10:01] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.2.log
[10:01] <spaceinvader> erm
[10:01] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.1.log.old
[10:01] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.1.log
[10:01] <spaceinvader> i dont think we can access that
[10:01] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
[10:02] <sacater> file:///var/log/Xorg.0.log
[10:02] <sacater> which one?
[10:02] <sacater> er
[10:02] <spaceinvader> all of them
[10:02] <sacater> im asking
[10:02] <sacater> which one do you want
[10:02] <spaceinvader> file:// points to your machine...
[10:02] <sacater> ok...
[10:02] <sacater> ill use paste.py for that
[10:02] <sacater> i know thqat
[10:02] <spaceinvader> do ls -l and gimme the most recent one
[10:02] <sacater> that*
[10:02] <_MMA_> This is really unnecessary in the channel. 
[10:04] <sacater> spaceinvader: http://rafb.net/p/N7HwS976.html
[10:06] <cxd> Hello all.
[10:06] <sacater> spaceinvader: that one obviously dosnt have the errors
[10:06] <sacater> spaceinvader: must be an earlier one
[10:07] <spaceinvader> yeah
[10:07] <cxd> I want to know how to have a program included in k/ubuntu.
[10:08] <_MMA_> cxd: On install or in the repos?
[10:08] <cxd> the repos
[10:08] <_MMA_> cxd: Can you package?
[10:08] <cxd> I have never attempted to package myself, I am a newbee.
[10:09] <rmjb> cxd: look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[10:09] <_MMA_> Would you like to learn?
[10:09] <_MMA_> There ya go.
[10:09] <rmjb> intro completely
[10:09] <cxd> Learning is good.
[10:09] <rmjb> sorry, read the intro completely
[10:10] <sacater> spaceinvader: i just tried to make an xsession, and got you a lovely error report
[10:10] <spaceinvader> cool
[10:10] <spaceinvader> paste away
[10:10] <DktrKranz> what if a package only has a version number but no revision at all? should a modified package ship -0ubuntu1 revision?
[10:11] <sacater> spaceinvader: http://rafb.net/p/ZD606426.html
[10:12] <sacater> spaceinvader: i did sudo startx -- :1 and the the nvidia driver logo flashed up fine, then the screen becomes greyish with black dots
[10:12] <spaceinvader> thats normal
[10:12] <spaceinvader> thats just x when there is nothing running on it
[10:12] <rmjb> DktrKranz: that sounds about right, you mean if there's no debian version?
[10:13] <cxd> ok I have looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates and the package I would like included in not there?
[10:14] <DktrKranz> rmjb, yes
[10:14] <DktrKranz> i was referring to gallimimus
[10:14] <rmjb> cxd: file a bug named [needs-packaging]  <package name> and make sure it has the needs-packaging tag
[10:14] <DktrKranz> version 0.1.0
[10:15] <rmjb> cxd: but you should also check the debian-wnpp link on that page to see if it's in progress in debian
[10:15] <rmjb> DktrKranz: in that case yes, it would be versioned <version>-0ubuntu1
[10:15] <cxd> I will check the debian link first.
[10:15] <DktrKranz> ok, thanks :)
[10:16] <sacater> spaceinvader: so what do you think the troubles are about then?
[10:16] <spaceinvader> there are none it seems
[10:16] <spaceinvader> try egrep '(EE)|(WW)' /var/log/Xorg.*
[10:17] <rmjb> how do I set a needs-packaging bug to wishlist? that option is not available to me on launchpad.
[10:17] <sacater> erm its big
[10:17] <sacater> i will paste...
[10:17] <spaceinvader> k
[10:17] <spaceinvader> pipe it into pypaste
[10:17] <Adri2000> rmjb: ask someone who is in the qa team
[10:18] <spaceinvader> egrep '(EE)|(WW)' /var/log/Xorg.* | pypaste.py -n sacater -d 'x errors'
[10:18] <spaceinvader> sacater: ^
[10:18] <rmjb> Adri2000: is membership to that team open so I can do it myself?
[10:18] <sacater> whoa
[10:18] <sacater> ok
[10:18] <cxd> ok I have checked the debian links and nothing is mentioned about the package I wan't.
[10:18] <Adri2000> rmjb: it's a restricted team
[10:18] <cxd> want
[10:18] <gnomefreak> rmjb: bug number?
[10:18] <rmjb> cxd: then file the bug :)
[10:19] <ScottK> rmjb: What bug?
[10:19] <gnomefreak> rmjb: you have to apply for qa
[10:19] <cxd> how long does this process take be realistic so I know what to expect.
[10:19] <rmjb> just a general question... because we tell people to set the bug as wishlist, but they can't
[10:19] <Adri2000> rmjb: s/restricted/moderated/ actually, it's how launchpad calls it
[10:20] <ScottK> Ah.
[10:20] <gnomefreak> rmjb: if you talk to bdmurry (atleast im fairly sure he is the one now) in #ubuntu-bugs about joining
[10:20] <sacater> spaceinvader: http://rafb.net/p/i8TuRo24.html
[10:20] <spaceinvader> sacater: another tip, /set awl_automode screen for a cooler looking chan list
[10:21] <sacater> spaceinvader: it had better be cooler
[10:21] <ScottK> rmjb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuQA
[10:21] <spaceinvader> it goes down the side
[10:21] <spaceinvader> somewhat like xcha
[10:21] <sacater> erm
[10:21] <sacater> bad for me
[10:21] <rmjb> ScottK, gnomefreak: didn't want to join qa... still working through MOTU :) just a question, the wording of the Candidates page will have to change, that's all
[10:21] <ScottK> Ah.
[10:22] <sacater> spaceinvader: use screen -x again, i dont mind this time
[10:22] <gnomefreak> oh ok sorry
[10:22] <spaceinvader> why?
[10:22] <sacater> spaceinvader: youll see...
[10:22] <ScottK> Joining QA is a lot easier than becoming a MOTU.
[10:22] <spaceinvader> okay?
[10:22] <gnomefreak> yes it is
[10:22] <sacater> yes i allow it this time
[10:22] <sacater> just to see what you have done
[10:22] <spaceinvader> sacater: i know what it looks like anyway
[10:22] <rmjb> In that case i'll look at QA... something to get Ubuntu membership :)
[10:22] <sacater> spaceinvader: no no, mine looks bad things are everywher
[10:23] <spaceinvader> erm
[10:23] <spaceinvader> hit ctrl-l
[10:23] <sacater> ok
[10:23] <spaceinvader> ctrl-alt l
[10:23] <sacater> nothing
[10:23] <spaceinvader> ctrl-alt a l
[10:23] <spaceinvader> or /redraw
[10:23] <sacater> thats better
[10:23] <spaceinvader> any better?
[10:23] <sacater> no
[10:23] <spaceinvader> lol
[10:23] <spaceinvader> re do screen -DRR
[10:23] <rmjb> cxd: got through with the needs-packaging request?
[10:23] <ScottK> rmjb: It took me about a day to get accepted into bugsquad, put the requested info together (pastebin is good), and then get bdmurray to look at it and accept me into QA.
[10:23] <gnomefreak> ScottK: how would i go about proving my packaging if mine go through a core devel
[10:24] <spaceinvader> then it should come back normal
[10:24] <sacater> ooh
[10:24] <sacater> it is better
[10:24] <spaceinvader> ;p
[10:24] <sacater> oh
[10:24] <ScottK> gnomefreak: Not sure what you mean?
[10:24] <sacater> but i cant see last channels
[10:24] <spaceinvader> what do you mean
[10:24] <spaceinvader> is your window too small?
[10:24] <sacater> i have more channels than 36
[10:25] <sacater> and 36 is all that fit down the side
[10:25] <cxd> no I am still reading on the packaging request.
[10:25] <spaceinvader> make the window taller?
[10:25] <sacater> its at full
[10:25] <sacater> im gonna keep it as it was
[10:25] <sacater> how do i revert back?
[10:25] <gnomefreak> ScottK: the packages i package are either in my repo testing for gutsy or in main. asac takes my package and respins it if i patched it or what not
[10:25] <rmjb> cxd: it helps if you look at an existing needs-packaging bug to see what is needed, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/103828 for example
[10:25] <ubotu> Malone bug 103828 in Ubuntu "[needs packaging]  Simple Invoices" [Wishlist,In progress]  
[10:25] <gnomefreak> ScottK: i have never put package through revu
[10:25] <spaceinvader> sacater: /set awl_automode bar
[10:26] <ScottK> gnomefreak: Then start with Gutsy.
[10:26] <sacater> thats more like it
[10:26] <gnomefreak> ill try.
[10:26] <spaceinvader> k
[10:26] <sacater> spaceinvader: did you review that egrep output?
[10:26] <ScottK> gnomefreak: Does asac leave your name in the changelog?
[10:26] <spaceinvader> sacater: yeah
[10:26] <sacater> spaceinvader: good?
[10:27] <spaceinvader> sacater: it looks like you have defined too many input devices
[10:27] <ScottK> If so, it should be clear it's your work regardless of the path.
[10:27] <spaceinvader> sacater: upload /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[10:27] <gnomefreak> ScottK: iceape is packaged and ready for gutsy almost but i think he will be uploading it since its one less step
[10:27] <gnomefreak> ScottK: not sure never looked. i know he added me as a contributor to one patch
[10:27] <sacater> spaceinvader: http://rafb.net/p/k7ksfV21.html
[10:28] <cxd> thank you for that.
[10:28] <sacater> spaceinvader: seems fine to me
[10:28] <ScottK> gnomefreak: Check and see if the packages show up in your name on your LP page?
[10:28] <gnomefreak> looking
[10:29] <rmjb> cxd: if you'd like to help you can convert some requests from the Candidates page to needs-packaging bugs :)
[10:30] <cxd> i would love to help, but let me figure out how to file my request correctly first.
[10:30] <rmjb> yeah no probs... just sayin
[10:30] <spaceinvader> sacater: looking
[10:30] <cxd> I want to do this correctly.
[10:30] <gnomefreak> ScottK: under Package maintenance report is nothing. so i guess he has changed them. 
[10:31] <rmjb> gnomefreak: what package?
[10:31] <ScottK> If you continue to go through him, you might want to ask him not to.
[10:31] <spaceinvader> sacater: yeah its fine
[10:31] <gnomefreak> ScottK: ok
[10:31] <sacater> spaceinvader: so whats going on then
[10:31] <gnomefreak> well lets see what happens with iceape
[10:31] <spaceinvader> perhaps you had mixed up xorg.confs
[10:31] <spaceinvader> but the one you have now is fine
[10:31] <gnomefreak> once i get it ready after toolchain
[10:31] <sacater> spaceinvader: btw, sort out descarte's keyboard locale, i cant do pound signs
[10:31] <spaceinvader> thats not that, thats utf-8
[10:32] <sacater> oh
[10:32] <spaceinvader> i can fix it though
[10:32] <spaceinvader> just this once ;p
[10:32] <sacater> spaceinvader: any other ideas what could be messing up with my xserver
[10:32] <ScottK> gnomefreak: I've done everything I've done through REVU and debdiffs on bug reports in LP - https://launchpad.net/~kitterman/+packages
[10:33] <gnomefreak> looking
[10:34] <sacater> spaceinvader: how do i switch xservers. something = F7
[10:35] <spaceinvader> ctrl-alt f7?
[10:35] <spaceinvader> sacater: right, run /set term_charset UTF-8 in irssi
[10:35] <spaceinvader> sacater: then detach screen
[10:35] <spaceinvader> sacater: logout completley from descartes
[10:35] <spaceinvader> sacater: then log back in and reattach
[10:36] <salty-horse> hi. are there any plans to package the 32-bit libraries required by wine for amd64? It will really help the usability of ubuntu (even though it conflicts with the debian approach(?))
[10:36] <sacater> 
[10:36] <sacater> spaceinvader: oh lookee
[10:36] <sacater> 
[10:36] <spaceinvader> that was quick of you
[10:36] <sacater> i get that for a pound sign
[10:36] <sacater> spaceinvader: thank you
[10:36] <spaceinvader> as a result, all theses german people's names will work too
[10:36] <sacater> spaceinvader: meh, go to #welp
[10:40] <cxd> ok I have filed my bug according to the template you gave.
[10:40] <cxd> bug 105975
[10:40] <ubotu> Malone bug 105975 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  manslide" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105975
[10:43] <rmjb> cxd: looks good, better than my packaging request :P
[10:43] <cxd> I think it is actually a kde program I do not know if that makes any difference.
[10:45] <cxd> I do not want to have to use a windows program if there is a linux GPL alternative out there.
[10:46] <ScottK> cxd: You should consider packaging it yourself.
[10:46] <ScottK> People here will help you (after the Feisty release).
[10:47] <cxd> Ok but I am a newbe and I have little experience.
[10:47] <rmjb> cxd: does that app have a site of it's own?
[10:48] <cxd> yes I listed the url on the URL https://launchpad.net/bugs/105975
[10:48] <ubotu> Malone bug 105975 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  manslide" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[10:48] <ScottK> cxd: That's how everyone starts.  This is a good place to do it (start).  I started working on packaging here in December and had my first package accepted into Debian yesterday.
[10:48] <cxd> congratulations.
[10:48] <rmjb> cxd: I meant not on kde-apps... but I guess it doesn't... the freshmeat page links to kde-apps also
[10:49] <rmjb> ScottK surpassed me... because I got distracted by cedega over christmas :(
[10:50] <rmjb> but I still have my mark on ubuntu... I've packaged iriverter which is in feisty :)
[10:50] <bddebian> ScottK: Don't talk to me about old :)
[10:51] <ScottK> cxd: I good way to get started learning the packaging stuff is to find bugs in LP that are tagged both bitesize and packaging.
[10:51] <ScottK> bddebian: You are WAY younger than me.
[10:51] <bddebian> :)
[10:51] <bddebian> I just wanted to hear that.  Usually I'm the old man ;-P
[10:52] <rmjb> cxd: since that's *the* side for manslide it looks good
[10:52] <ScottK> I have a daughter tsmithe's age. (I think it was tsmithe).
[10:52] <tsmithe> hmm?
[10:52] <tsmithe> i am 15, yes
[10:53] <rmjb> cxd: if you want to help you can do something easy by just converting some packaging requests from the Candidates page to needs-packaging bugs
[10:54] <ScottK> Yeah.  tsmithe was the one.
[10:54] <cxd> I would love to help do you have some instructions for me.
[10:55] <rmjb> cxd: great! it's easy to do, just there's a lot so every contribution helps, just go through the list on the Candidates page I linked you and file an equivalent bug for it... that page was the old way of doing things
[10:56] <rmjb> cxd: when you've created the bug, delete the line on the Candidates page by using the Edit link at the top
[10:57] <gnomefreak> breezy support is gone right?
[10:57] <Nafallo> no
[10:57] <Nafallo> tomorrow :-)
[10:57] <gnomefreak> lol
[10:57] <Nafallo> Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:57:53 +0200
[10:57] <Nafallo> ;-)
[10:58] <ajmitch> not soon enough
[10:58] <Nafallo> agreed
[10:59] <ajmitch> of course dapper will be around for a long long time
[10:59] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:59] <Nafallo> don't remind me ;-)
[10:59] <ajmitch> 5 years is a lifetime in this business :)
[10:59] <Nafallo> but I actually have a server on dapper :-P
[11:01] <cxd> OK where do I find the Candidates page?
[11:08] <cxd> rmjb where is the Candidates page so I can look at it?
[11:10] <TheMuso> So do we have a meeting/
[11:10] <TheMuso> Looks like there has been no change to the ajenda.
[11:11] <ScottK> cxd: I think he means https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
[11:12] <cxd> thank you ScottK.
[11:16] <freacky22527> cxd: also have a look to needs-packaging tagged bugs ;)
[11:16] <freacky22527> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging&start=0
[11:17] <TheMuso> gah I missed it. Stupid me.
[11:17] <TheMuso> never mind
[11:25] <cxd> ok will someone look at this one that I have fixed is there anything else I need to to do? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/78642
[11:25] <ubotu> Malone bug 78642 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  kuvio for Multiverse" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[11:27] <cxd> I just go down to list and change the title to [needs-packaging] 
[11:29] <ScottK> cxd: If you want an easy bug fix to learn on (after the release), see this one: Bug #105567
[11:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 105567 in mantis "Apparently missing mysql-client dependency" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105567
[11:31] <ScottK> cxd: Bug #78642 looks good to me.
[11:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 78642 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  kuvio for Multiverse" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78642
[11:35] <cxd> I can see that everyone is busy getting ready for the new release.  Would it be better if I come back after the new release so you all can teach me how to help.
[11:36] <ScottK> The real experts are busy with the release.  Us peons are pretty free, so I don't think there's a need to go away.
[11:39] <salty-horse> hi. I noticed that the scummvm entry in gnome-app-install doesn't has the default golden square icon. After I installed it, I see the icon. How come I can see icons for other games that are not installed?
[11:44] <Fujitsu> salty-horse: The script that generates the app-install data doesn't seem to be grabbing the icon properly.
[11:45] <salty-horse> Fujitsu, which script exactly?
[11:46] <Fujitsu> salty-horse: Not sure where it is.
[11:46] <salty-horse> is it documented anywhere?
[11:54] <fgcwatt> newbie question: is it ok to test and fix bugs on vmware guest?
[11:56] <sacater> hey guys, was there an update that removed the bug reporter from the menu, guy here complains that there was https://answers.launchpad.net/malone/+ticket/4700
[11:58] <danohuiginn> sacater: I believe so. check archives of ubuntu-devel
[11:58] <danohuiginn> (email list)
[11:58] <DktrKranz> sacater, it was decided to remove them
[11:58] <sacater> thanks
[11:58] <sacater> thats another answer for sacater :P
[11:59] <welshbyte> there's no I in team ;)
[12:00] <jmg> theres no U in team either, moron

[12:00] <welshbyte> heh
[12:00] <jmg> (not calling welshbyte a moron there, just completing the quote)
[12:00] <jmg> (we're all friends here)
[12:00] <welshbyte> no offence taken :)
[12:00] <jmg> (<3 welshbyte)
[12:01] <sacater> DktrKranz: quick check... will it be added after feisty has been officially released (i hope so, as there will be a ton of bugs :P)
[12:01] <DktrKranz> I don't think so
[12:01] <fgcwatt> I'm running ubuntu in vmware guest. Is it ok to test and fix bugs in it?
[12:02] <sacater> DktrKranz: why not?
[12:02] <sacater> DktrKranz: surely we need people to report bugs..
[12:02] <DktrKranz> of course
[12:02] <sacater> so it will be added back...
[12:02] <DktrKranz> but we do *not* want to have dupes
[12:02] <sacater> ah
[12:03] <fgcwatt> Anyone?
[12:03] <DktrKranz> since almost every bug has been reported during development
[12:03] <DktrKranz> it was decited to pull it off
[12:03] <jmg> DktrKranz: so we want triagers
[12:03] <jmg> to find the dupes
[12:04] <DktrKranz> jmg, using apport is easier
[12:04] <jmg> "almost every bug"
[12:04] <jmg> apport?
[12:04] <DktrKranz> you have a full backtrace
[12:04] <jmg> dont you know what bug triage is?
[12:04] <jmg> only on crashes?
[12:04] <sacater> wow this guy dosnt want much https://answers.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+ticket/4578
[12:05] <DktrKranz> well, apport just reports crashes, if I mind well
[12:05] <sacater> anyone know the answer to any of the 5 things he wants/
[12:05] <sacater> ?
[12:05] <fgcwatt> Any Motu's here?
[12:05] <sacater> fgcwatt: of course
[12:06] <ajmitch> sacater: maybe ask in #edubuntu?
[12:06] <sacater> many of us are
[12:06] <DktrKranz> sacater, perhaps using sabayon?
[12:06] <sacater> maybe
[12:06] <sacater> ill ask about
[12:06] <sacater> thanks
[12:06] <fgcwatt> well...can I use a vmware image to test and fix bugs with it?
[12:07] <TheMuso> Morning ajmitch.
[12:07] <DktrKranz> fgcwatt, of course, it's a great way to do so
[12:07] <fgcwatt> great thanks.... some folks would say otherwise
[12:08] <ajmitch> morning TheMuso 
[12:09] <sacater> heh
[12:09] <sacater> its 11:10 pm here