[12:45] <allee> Mhmm, I vaguely remeber there was a plan to add user notification when a reboot is necessary (e.g. kernel update).  I've not seen such a msg yet.  Is this feisty+x?
[12:49] <yuriy> i'm reading the dot article on strigi, and somebody's comment mentioned kio-fuse as a solution to kio slaves with non-kde apps. has that been considered for kubuntu?
[01:22] <nixternal> well, I would love to have a package done, but the Spanish translations for the KDE Games section is severly broken, so I had to remove a majority of that. I am going to see about getting this fixed. Which kind of stinks considering the time difference
[01:26] <nixternal> WOOHOO! I got everything to finally validate for translations
[01:26] <Tm_T> ok, so Herd 6 is cancelled, does this affect to release date?
[01:27] <nixternal> just need to fix the Spanish translations for games.xml which I don't think I can do, and I need to find out why Rosetta didn't like sl.po file for keeping-safe
[01:27] <nixternal> Tm_T: not that I have heard
[01:27] <nixternal> that is why I am running around trying to get the docs package translated and packaged
[01:28] <Tm_T> roger
[02:14] <Tm_T> anyone with few moments to spare?
[02:15] <Tm_T> I need some help with launchpad
[02:17] <Riddell> Tm_T: ask
[02:18] <Tm_T> about importing openpgp gey, there's mention about uploading it to keyserver, but my gpg asks keyserver
[02:18] <Tm_T> so, hum, I'm kinda lost here
[02:20] <Tm_T> hate these depressive seasons, nothing works
[02:23] <Riddell> Tm_T: I don't understand
[02:23] <Riddell> Tm_T: for launchpad can you just paste your key in no?
[02:23] <Tm_T> hmm
[02:23] <Tm_T> Ensure the key has been uploaded to a keyserver. To do this:
[02:23] <Tm_T> gpg --send-key key-id
[02:23] <Riddell> to upload to a keyserver set keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com in ~/.gnupg/options
[02:24] <Tm_T> ah, yes, just found that too from wiki
[02:24] <Tm_T> thanks
[02:24] <Riddell> and obviously replace "key-id" with the actual hex number
[02:24] <Tm_T> ofcourse :(
[02:24] <Tm_T> :) I meant
[02:25] <Tm_T> oh well, I think I generate new key for this purpose
[02:45] <Tm_T> yup, time ti sign CoC
[02:46] <Tm_T> s/ti/to/
[10:27] <Tonio_> hi
[10:28] <asyd> hello Tonio_
[10:31] <Tonio_> hi ;)
[11:04] <hunger_t> Who is packaging kontact?
[11:04] <Tm_T> not me!
[11:06] <Tm_T> hunger_t: er? enterprise?
[11:06] <hunger_t> Tm_T: There is a branch of kontact for enterprises...
[11:06] <hunger_t> Tm_T: More stable, bla bla...
[11:07] <Tm_T> hunger_t: and that is what branch?
[11:07] <hunger_t> Tm_T: CHeck tags/kdepim/*enterprise* in kde SVN.
[11:08] <Tm_T> oh, haven't seen that before
[11:09] <Tm_T> I'm mostly fiddling with kdepim-3.5.5+ branch
[11:09] <hunger_t> Tm_T: the enterprise branch is from the kolab server guys afaik. It is kde 3.5.x based as well.
[11:11] <hunger_t> Tm_T: Anyway: I do not envy your job:-) That beast is not the nicest to build.
[11:13] <gnomefreak> guys whats with the versioning of libqt3-mt?
[11:13] <gnomefreak> 3:3.3.8really3.3.7-0ubuntu5
[11:13] <gnomefreak> i like it but never seen that used before ;)
[11:14] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: let me check
[11:16] <Tm_T>   * Revert to Qt 3.3.7.  3.3.8 was not showing a lot of characters
[11:16] <Tm_T>      from CKJ languages.
[11:17] <gnomefreak> but isnt every other lib 3.3.7?
[11:17] <Tm_T> hm?
[11:17] <gnomefreak> looks like 3.3.6
[11:19] <gnomefreak> shouldnt they all match versions for the most part?
[11:19] <Tm_T> kdebase?
[11:20] <gnomefreak> kdebase yes it isnt a lib but i was thinking it would bring in the libs needed to run kde and i just assumed they would all match
[11:20] <Tm_T> kdebase: Installed: 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu20
[11:21] <allee> gnomefreak: no kdebase and libqt are independent (beside kdebase requireing a min verion on libqt)
[11:21] <gnomefreak> oh ok ty
[11:21] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: you're confusing me a lot
[11:21] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:21] <Tm_T> even for bein gnomefreak
[11:21] <gnomefreak> its around 5am please forgive me
[11:21] <Tm_T> being!
[11:21] <Tm_T> see?
[11:22] <allee> Tm_T: I know how you feel.  I felt it 6 hous ago ;)
[11:22] <Tm_T> allee: yup, but this has been going on last two years basically :(
[11:23] <allee> Tm_T: oh!
[11:23] <Tm_T> allee: how otherwise I would be hanging here?
[11:23] <allee> lol
[11:24] <allee> Tm_T: good excuse :)
[11:24] <Tm_T> and very true at most part
[11:28] <Tonio_> allee your digikam reached the repos
[11:28] <Tm_T> :)
[11:29] <Tonio_> hunger_t: very interesting for gutsy
[11:29] <allee> Tonio_: yeah, seen it.  Thx!
[11:29] <Tonio_> hunger_t: we should give love to company material and packages in the next dev cycle
[11:30] <Tm_T> allee: anything interesting to see in digikam ?
[11:30] <allee> Tm_T: is the things you see in digikam are interesting depends on your photos :)
[11:30] <LongPointyStick> hi Tonio_
[11:31] <Tonio_> hi LongPointyStick :)
[11:31] <Tm_T> allee: true there
[11:31] <Tm_T> allee: just haven't used digikam ever
[11:32] <allee> Tm_T: We'll I like it a lot :)
[11:32] <Riddell> LongPointyStick: are you hobbsee?
[11:33] <Tm_T> allee: you mean "well" ;)
[11:33] <ajmitch> who else could it be?
[11:33] <Tm_T> allee: I
[11:33] <Tm_T> 'll test it
[11:33] <Riddell> LongPointyStick and others, could you test the fix at the bottom of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/104794
[11:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 104794 in kde-guidance "guidance-power-manager shows dischanging if battery full" [Undecided,Fix committed] 
[11:33] <LongPointyStick> Riddell: yes
[11:34] <LongPointyStick> Riddell: will in a sec, when i reboot
[11:35] <Tm_T> Riddell: hmm, does it need laptop for testing?
[11:35] <Riddell> Tm_T: yes
[11:35] <Riddell> Tm_T: well, it wouldn't do any harm to test on as much hardware as possible really
[11:36] <Tm_T> Riddell: ok, will give it a try :)
[11:39] <Riddell> sebas: still travelling?
[11:39] <Hobbsee> yay, back :)
[11:40] <Riddell> Tonio_: able to test too?
[11:41] <Tm_T> No battery found.
[11:41] <Tm_T> This is not a laptop, quitting ...
[11:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[11:42] <Riddell> Tm_T: perfect :)
[11:42] <Tm_T> Riddell: that's before patch, now trying with it :p
[11:43] <Tm_T> I remember it doing something even in this machine before
[11:44] <Tm_T> so I ended up removing it all the time
[11:45] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yep, that's fixed it for me
[11:45] <Riddell> Hobbsee: great
[11:45] <Hobbsee> will have to wait for the battery to discharge a bit, to see if it keeps dropping, of course
[11:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: what to test ?
[11:45] <Tm_T> and nothing changed here ofcourse :)
[11:45] <Tonio_> ho guidance
[11:46] <Tm_T> so for non-laptops its ok ;)
[11:46] <Riddell> Tonio_: bug 104794
[11:46] <ubotu> Malone bug 104794 in kde-guidance "guidance-power-manager shows dischanging if battery full" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104794
[11:46] <Tm_T> hmm, line numbering in that patch is wrong?
[11:47] <Tm_T> not that it would matter much
[11:48] <sebas> Riddell: In London right now
[11:48] <sebas> Back in NL on Saturday night
[11:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: seems to work as expected....
[11:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I must say I never had the problem before, so maybe my test isn't efficient
[11:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: but the patch at least doesn't seem to break anything :)
[11:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: playing a bit more....
[11:52] <Riddell> sebas: if you can comment on the sanity of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/104794 comment 7 that would be good
[11:52] <ubotu> Malone bug 104794 in kde-guidance "guidance-power-manager shows dischanging if battery full" [High,Fix committed] 
[11:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: reports "fully charged" when my battery level is 98% only......
[11:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm discharging a bit to make tests
[11:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: even with that patch from comment 7?
[11:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup
[11:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: same at 96%...
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep still the issue here...
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum my problem seems to be different...
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: no issue on discharging for me, works perfectly here
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: my issue is on "charging"
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: reports fully charged whatever is the battery level
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: seems to go to normal state avec about 20 seconds.... now it says me "blabla time to charge"
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: seems okay then ;)
[12:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: everything is okay reguarding to discharging
[12:02] <Tonio_> and when the battery is fully charged, it doesn't say "discharging", so I'd say the patch works
[12:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: ok, phew
[12:03] <Tonio_> just those 20 seconds when pluging the cable are a bit strange :) but not a problem btw
[12:04] <Riddell> that's just how it's done, a port to qt 4 should fix the delay somewhat
[12:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: have a question, I'm trying to upload digikam to edgy-updates, and whatever I do, I get a:
[12:04] <Tonio_> Rejected:
[12:04] <Tonio_> SHA1 sum of uploaded file does not match extant file in archive
[12:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: I tried with debuild -S or debuild -S -sa (uploading the tarball, untouched)
[12:05] <Tonio_> I don't understand what the problem is
[12:05] <Riddell> is your .orig correct?
[12:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep, downloaded on packages.ubuntu.com, untouched...
[12:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: when I just debuild -S, the orig isn't even uploaded
[12:08] <Tonio_> looks like it doesn't like the dsc or diff change..... nonsense
[12:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ping mithrandir
[12:08] <Riddell> Tonio_: have you gone through the whole -proposed process?
[12:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes
[12:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: everything is supposed to be done
[12:39] <Lure> hello all
[12:48] <Riddell> 10:52 < Riddell> sebas: if you can comment on the sanity of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/104794 comment 7 that would be good
[12:48] <ubotu> Malone bug 104794 in kde-guidance "guidance-power-manager shows dischanging if battery full" [High,Fix committed] 
[12:48] <Riddell> Lure: ^^
[12:48] <Lure> Riddell: will look into it
[12:49] <Riddell> ah, thought you'd been a bit quiet :)
[12:49] <Riddell> welcome back
[12:51] <Tm_T> Lure: lured back? ;)
[12:52] <Lure> Riddell: yep, current version (if rate: ) is completely wrong
[12:52] <Lure> Riddell: if self.onBattery() is safe to apply
[12:52] <Lure> Riddell: so last patch is correct
[12:53] <Lure> Tm_T: yep, they replaced motherboard and now it is much cooler
[12:53] <Riddell> Lure: great, thanks
[12:53] <Lure> Tm_T: it looks like that my laptop was overheating for some reason and I though that this was normal temperature
[12:56] <Riddell> Lure: do you know what happened to the network manager behaviour where konqueror couldn't connect to websites if you use /etc/networks/interfaces instead of NM?
[12:56] <Riddell> it seems to have fixed itself
[12:56] <Lure> Riddell: no, tollef and scott fixed the n-m
[12:56] <Lure> Riddell: scott's upload today is the way to go
[12:57] <Lure> Riddell: I am just concerned as some fixes are also in nm-applet and if this is required also in knm
[12:57] <Riddell> Lure: yes, that's what I'm working on
[12:57] <Riddell> but the konqueror refusing to connect unless network manager was being used seems to have changed
[12:57] <Lure> Riddell: main problem was in debian backend which dropped most of interfaces and made them not known to n-m
[12:58] <Lure> Riddell: yes, as not knm has proper status and does not say "no network" anymnore if there are interfaces not managed by n-m
[12:58] <Tm_T> Lure: heh, you should've seen my "new" 3d-card, over 120'C and someone said "it's normal for that model"
[12:58] <Lure> Riddell: like static config
[12:59] <Lure> Tm_T: this is really insane - good that I have 3-year warranty
[12:59] <Tm_T> Lure: result: now it has new cooling, but d'oh doesn't work =)
[12:59] <Tm_T> :)
[12:59] <Tm_T> warranty is good
[12:59] <Lure> Tm_T: yep, particually for shitthy HW
[01:00] <Lure> Tm_T: we have 2-3 laptops on service per week :-(
[01:01] <Tm_T> well that's quality
[01:02] <Lure> Tm_T: no, they are known for "hp invent" ;-)
[01:03] <Tm_T> sure it's not H(ard)P(ressure) Invert?
[01:03] <Tm_T> ok, I lost the point there, changed it 3 times on the fly
[01:06] <sebas> Riddell: Should be fixed with the patch Robert sent
[01:06] <sebas> So I agree to Lure
[01:06] <sebas> hack, rate is not even initialised.
[01:07] <Lure> sebas: it is in line 185
[01:08] <Lure> sebas: so it was at least consistent behaviour ;-)
[01:08] <sebas> Lure: Good point
[01:09] <Lure> sebas: and consistent bugs are always easier to find than random ones ;-)
[01:09] <sebas> Hehe :)
[01:15] <Hobbsee> Riddell: so when will that guidance patch get committed/
[01:17] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I've uploaded, will need release dude to accept
[01:18] <Hobbsee> Riddell: right.  what about the charging, which tonio was mentioning?  i can confirm that now
[01:20] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what's the problem?
[01:21] <Hobbsee> Riddell: g-p-m reports the battery fully charged, but it's still charging
[01:21] <Lure> Hobbsee: is there bug opened?
[01:21] <Lure> Hobbsee: would need lshal output to debug
[01:21] <Hobbsee> Lure: dont think so, i've just noticed it.  Tonio_ did too
[01:22] <Hobbsee> Lure: http://buntudot.org/people/~hobbsee/lshal ?
[01:23] <Lure> Hobbsee: is this lshal from the time it wrongly reported as "fully charged"?
[01:23] <Hobbsee> Lure: yes
[01:23] <Hobbsee> Lure: (was that what you wanted?)
[01:24] <Lure> Hobbsee: it is strange as it reports properly as "battery.rechargeable.is_charging = true"
[01:24] <Hobbsee> Lure: well, it is charging, so that bit's reporting right :P
[01:25] <Hobbsee> but yeah...that is weird
[01:26] <Hobbsee> Lure: it appears to think it's discharging, according to the next line
[01:27] <Hobbsee> Warning: While setting SystemPowerManagement to  False :  org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.NotSupported: No powersave method found
[01:29] <Riddell> I can't recreate that
[01:31] <Riddell> try this http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kde-guidance-powermanager_0.8.0-0ubuntu5_i386.deb
[01:32] <Hobbsee> that's the new one?
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Riddell: appears a rebuild fixes it, for some reason...
[01:33] <Riddell> phew
[01:33] <Hobbsee> Riddell: as in, the standard version was working when i made changes, so it'd recompile.  i dunno
[01:33] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: ^
[01:34] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: ? :)
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: try that deb, see if it fixes the problem
[01:34] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: okay
[01:36] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: discharging for 5 minutes to see what happens
[01:50] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hum, when repluging, just took 5 seconds from fully charged to "... to charge"
[01:50] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: that's acceptable :)
[01:50] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: cool :)
[01:50] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we won't call that a bug, but a lag to calculate the time to charge :)
[01:50] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:51] <Riddell> testers needed for knetwork manager  http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/knetworkmanager_0.1-0ubuntu12_i386.deb
[01:51] <Riddell> Lure: ^^
[01:52] <Riddell> also http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/knetworkmanager_0.1-0ubuntu12.debdiff
[01:54] <Riddell> Hobbsee, Tonio_ ^^
[01:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure ;)
[01:55] <ScottK> Riddell: Anything in particular you want us to look for?
[01:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I don't approve the "manual configuration"....
[01:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: can confuse the users as you can also "manually" set hidden wireless networks
[01:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: in my opinion, static is more clear..... but maybe it is just because I know what "static" IP settings are :)
[01:56] <Lure> ScottK: static IP config should not confuse knetworkmanager
[01:56] <ScottK> OK.
[01:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: but that's just my opinion btw
[01:57] <Lure> ScottK: i.e. switch to wireless or konqueror or kmail thinking that there is no network
[01:58] <Riddell> test that it works
[01:58] <Riddell> then if you can test that it works when you have a static config in /etc/network/interfaces
[01:59] <Riddell> where work means it has a tooltip of "manual config" and a connected icon
[01:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: appears to work here, but i dotn do static
[01:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: about the "manual configuration" no change here, still "static" after package upgrade...
[02:04] <ScottK> If I disable wireless using knetworkmanager, ath0 still shows enabled in the KDE Control Module.  It is, in fact, not enbabled.
[02:04] <Riddell> knetworkconf is like that
[02:04] <ScottK> OK.  Just wanted to make sure that wasn't a suprise.
[02:05] <Lure> Riddell: otherwise it works fine (better for the case where all interfaces are static)
[02:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: patch works, I can see a "connected" icon
[02:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: but it shows a "cable" connection icon
[02:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: btw that works
[02:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: but "static connection" isn't renamed.... I guess there is a problem there
[02:11] <ScottK> Riddell: I think I have either replicated the problem with the new knetworkmanager, or found another similar one
[02:11] <Lure> Riddell: I have noticed another (minor) issue: if you change interfaces back from static to dhcp with knetworkconf, n-m/knm does not notice this :-(
[02:11] <ScottK> Currently I have a static connection in /etc/networking/interfaces that I started using /etc/init.d/networking start
[02:12] <Tonio_> Lure: yes that's why I restarted to let network-manager restart
[02:12] <Lure> Riddell: you have to restart n-m to make it detect dhcp config back...
[02:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: that's my fault, fixed
[02:12] <ScottK> I can ping sites, but the knetworkmanager tooltip if offline mode is currently active.
[02:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay
[02:12] <Riddell> Lure: yeah, blame n-m for that :)
[02:12] <ScottK> Konqueror can't find the network.
[02:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: we should/could patch kentworkconf to restart network-manager when applying changes no ?
[02:13] <ScottK> Riddell: Is that the situation you were trying to recreate?
[02:13] <Lure> ScottK: cat you post your /e/n/i?
[02:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: but that looks big change for feisty :)
[02:13] <Lure> ScottK: are all interfaces static or just some of them?
[02:13] <ScottK> Lure: ??
[02:13] <ScottK> All
[02:13] <Lure> ScottK: sorry: /etc/networking/interfaces
[02:14] <Riddell> ScottK: it should show the wired icon with a tooltip of "manual config"
[02:14] <ScottK> Yes
[02:14] <Lure> ScottK: sorry again: /etc/network/interfaces ;-)
[02:14] <Riddell> Tonio_: maybe, but not for feisty
[02:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[02:14] <ScottK> Riddell: Nope.
[02:14] <Riddell> ScottK: what do you have?
[02:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: well hopefully next version of nm will be available soon :)
[02:15] <Tonio_> handling static settings by default, so that we can get rid of knetworkconf....
[02:15] <Riddell> that would be nice
[02:16] <ScottK> Riddell: The regulart disconnected tooltip and icon
[02:16] <Riddell> ScottK: restarted network manager?
[02:18] <ScottK> Riddell: I stopped/started with etc/init.d/networking, but didn't restart network manager.  Let me try that.
[02:19] <ScottK> Lure: e/n/i is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15360/
[02:20] <Lure> ScottK: do you have network-manager 0.6.4-6ubuntu7
[02:20] <Lure> ScottK: according to this config, you should see new "Manual config" on tray icon tooltip...
[02:20] <ScottK> That's the one that keybuck asked people to build and test yesterday, right?  If so, yes.
[02:21] <Lure> ScottK: yes
[02:22] <ScottK> Riddell: Now that I restarted network manager it comes up as expected.
[02:22] <ScottK> Lure: Thanks, I think it's as expected now.
[02:24] <ScottK> How long is it supposed to take before it notices that the manual connection is not longer there?
[02:25] <ScottK> Or is it supposed to detect the loss of the connection at all?
[02:26] <ScottK> Lure: So I pulled the ethernet cable (and the wireless card is out) and waited a few minutes and I still have the wired icon and the manual network configuration tooltip.
[02:27] <ScottK> Then I did etc/init.d/networking stop and the wired icon is still there, so to the casual user it looks like I'm connected, but I'm not.
[02:27] <ScottK> Is that expected?
[02:28] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^^  ?
[02:30] <ScottK> I put the wireless card in and it does not automatically try and connect (I would guess that's expected), but will connect via wireless when I tell it to with proper icon/tooltip.
[02:31] <ScottK> So the only thing that seems odd in the manual configuration is that knetworkmanager never notices the static/manual network connection going away.
[02:34] <Riddell> ScottK: it won't, it only checks for manual config on n-m startup and then you're stuck like that
[02:36] <ScottK> OK.  If that's by design then I think it needs to be boldly noted in the documentation because usually people would associate that icon with actually having a network connection.
[02:36] <Tonio_> re
[02:36] <Tonio_> latest kernel refuses to boot on apple machines again :'(
[02:36] <ScottK> So far I think the new one is good then.
[02:37] <ScottK> Now on to important things like my new fix for pysol works :-)
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ScottK: :)
[02:40] <Hobbsee> ScottK: did that get accepted already?
[02:40] <ScottK> Yeah.
[02:41] <Hobbsee> nice
[02:41] <ScottK> And it even works with the yet another python update I just sucked down.
[02:41] <Lure> Tonio_: there is fixed kernel ready for testing
[02:42] <Lure> Tonio_: ping BenC
[02:44] <Tonio_> Lure: sure
[02:47] <nixternal> Riddell: you need to remove all of the pr0n links from your Debian wiki page :)
[02:48] <ScottK> nixternal: You coordinate tranlsation stuff, right?
[02:49] <nixternal> nope, I just implement it into the kubuntu-docs package
[02:49] <Riddell> nixternal: where?
[02:49] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.  Thanks.
[02:49] <nixternal> at the botton of your wiki page, debian wiki
[02:49] <Riddell> nixternal: URL?
[02:50] <nixternal> http://wiki.debian.org/Utnubu/AboutUbuntu/JonathanRiddell
[02:51] <Hobbsee> oh dear
[02:56] <Tonio_> spam is hillness...
[02:56] <Riddell> nixternal: done, although really it needs to be removed from the database by an admin
[02:56] <nixternal> hehe, k
[02:57] <Tonio_> I'm always surprised those guys can take month to code scripts to spam anything............
[02:57] <nixternal> so network-manager will allow my wifi to work once again right?
[02:57] <nixternal> I can't go mobile, I have to stay plugged into the wall ;p
[03:08] <ScottK> Riddell: I had to reboot to get knetworkmanager to forget about the manual configuration, but I can't break it.  I think it's good.
[03:08] <ScottK> Ideally there would be a different icon for manual configuration.
[03:09] <Riddell> ideally yes, but this is a quick fix needed today, and is the same as gnome has
[03:11] <ScottK> Riddell: Understand. I think it's a significant UI issue for Gutsy.
[03:11] <ScottK> i.e. for fixing in Gutsy
[03:12] <jeroenvrp> is there a list somewhere with the best wificards/sticks you can use for feisty?
[03:13] <ScottK> jeroenvrp: There is information on wiki.ubuntu.com.  Do a title search for wireless.
[03:13] <jeroenvrp> ScottK: thanks
[03:14] <Riddell> ScottK: go ahead, although it might be spec material
[03:14] <ScottK> Riddell: Will do.  I'll get it written down and people can argue did I fill out the right form later.
[03:15] <nixternal> wo0t, and the update to networkmanager fixed my wifi
[03:31] <ScottK> OK.  It's reported.  Bug #106212
[03:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 106212 in knetworkmanager "Manual config icon is the same as wired connection icon" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106212
[03:32] <Riddell> ScottK: you should report that it also affects network-manager
[03:32] <ScottK> Riddell: I did, but ubotu doesn't pick that up for some reason.
[03:34] <ScottK> I've used Dapper --> Edgy --> Feisty with wireless on Kubuntu and the experience gets significantly better with each release.
[03:37] <Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed!
[03:41] <jsgotangco> goodness my neighbor is probably watching Borat..i can hear that blasted national anthem
[03:41] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:02] <Tonio_> kwwii: ping ?
[04:02] <kwwii> Tonio_: hi
[04:03] <Tonio_> ;)
[04:12] <bddebian> Heya
[04:13] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[04:45] <alleeHol> Any core dev care to upload exiv2?  See bug 105947
[04:45] <ubotu> Malone bug 105947 in digikam "portrait CRW files (EOS 300D) are upside down" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105947
[04:45] <alleeHol> ^^^ Tonio_, Riddell
[04:46] <Tonio_> alleeHol: Have to go get a truck....
[04:46] <Tonio_> alleeHol: I'm leaving my appartment tomorrow...
[04:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: can you handle this ?
[04:46] <alleeHol> Tonio_: hey cool
[04:46] <Riddell> alleeHol: you're editing the file directly
[04:47] <alleeHol> Riddell: exiv2 has no patch sys.
[04:48] <nixternal> anyone else having issues trying to upgrade the 2.6.20-14-generic image today?
[04:48] <alleeHol> Riddell: and MOTUs just added a suggestion to the wiki eto not add a patch system to keep diff to debian minimal.   Makes sense for core pkgs too IMHO
[04:48] <nixternal> 403 forbidden for me
[04:49] <alleeHol> nixternal: no worked here
[04:49] <Riddell> alleeHol: that's crazy talk, you should always use diffs
[04:49] <Tonio_> alleeHol: as long as it is merged upstream, this is no big deal having the changes in diff.gz right ?
[04:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm just doing the patch
[04:49] <Hobbsee> nixternal: known.  it's called bug: 'zomg, this kernel broke the world'?
[04:50] <Hobbsee> nixternal: https://launchpad.net/bugs/106063
[04:50] <ubotu> Malone bug 106063 in linux-source-2.6.20 "MASTER: Computer will not boot after 2.6.20-14.24 kernel upgrade" [Critical,Fix committed] 
[04:50] <Riddell> Tonio_: for exiv?
[04:50] <alleeHol> Riddell: debian kde extra is NMUing exiv2 for quite some time.  I'll apply there too
[04:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep
[04:57] <alleeHol> Tonio_:  ah, in alioth cdbs is used already for exiv2.  I'll add the patch there ...
[04:58] <nixternal> Hobbsee: haha
[04:58] <Tonio_> alleeHol: okay ;)
[04:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: pusling said he had extracted a bunch of patches for kdepim to stop crashes in kmail, recon it's worth looking at?
[04:58] <Tonio_> alleeHol: I didn't change the packaging, just added  patch entries to rules
[04:59] <alleeHol> Tonio_: thx!
[04:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes I already heard about that
[04:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: people reported it was better with those patches
[04:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: deserves a look :) but I'll not be there to do that this WE...
[04:59] <Tonio_> I should already be gone......
[05:00] <nixternal> is there a way to fix guidance locally so it will detect my cpu speed?
[05:00] <ScottK> Riddell: I can build/test kmail patches this afternoon/tomorrow if needed.
[05:00] <Riddell> who uses kontact enough to test?  I hardly use it
[05:00] <ScottK> nixternal: Got a hammer?
[05:00] <Riddell> ScottK: ah hah, a volunteer :)
[05:00] <nixternal> Riddell: I use it all the time
[05:01] <nixternal> I live by Kontact
[05:01] <nixternal> there isn't a feature I don't use
[05:01] <ScottK> Riddell: I've built kdepim before too.
[05:01] <kwwii> Riddell: which mail client do you use? ummm...mutt or pine?
[05:01] <ScottK> Just point me at a list of the patches you want me to build/test with.
[05:02] <nixternal> kwwii: mutt I believe
[05:02] <Riddell> kwwii: mutt.  it's horrible
[05:02] <nixternal> hehe
[05:02] <nixternal> after using Kontact now for over a year, I can't go back to mutt or pine
[05:03] <kwwii> I used mutt for years, but since I have been doing kubuntu I have used kontact
[05:03] <Tonio_> alleeHol: building exiv2
[05:04] <alleeHol> Tonio_: whoa
[05:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll upload and let you ping archives admin ok ? I really should have gone :)
[05:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: ok
[05:14] <Riddell> nixternal: what happened with the docs translations?
[05:14] <nixternal> Riddell: I have them all but 1, Slovenian translations for the keeping-safe doc
[05:14] <nixternal> nobody seems to have an answer or a response to it, nobody from Rosetta has contacted me yet about
[05:15] <nixternal> so there will probably be no Slovenian translation for 1 doc
[05:15] <Riddell> Lure might be able to help?
[05:15] <Riddell> is it a technical issue or a language one?
[05:15] <nixternal> if he can get it for me, he is my hero
[05:15] <nixternal> technical issue
[05:15] <Riddell> ah, maybe not then
[05:16] <nixternal> Rosetta encountered problems exporting the files you
[05:16] <nixternal> requested. The Rosetta team has been notified of this
[05:16] <nixternal> problem. Please reply to this email for further assistance
[05:16] <Riddell> nixternal: ping carlos
[05:16] <nixternal> I have replied, you name it
[05:16] <nixternal> roger
[05:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: upload for bug 105947
[05:20] <ubotu> Malone bug 105947 in digikam "portrait CRW files (EOS 300D) are upside down" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105947
[05:20] <Tonio_> s/upload/uploaded
[05:20] <Tonio_> now I'm gone, seya on monday :)
[05:20] <nixternal> have a great weekend Tonio_!
[05:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: thanks
[05:20] <Tonio_> nixternal: hard WE, I asume :)
[05:21] <nixternal> hehe
[05:40] <soulrider_> hi
[05:40] <ScottK> Hi soulrider_
[05:40] <soulrider_> hi ScottK, do you know if there are any ISOs newer than the beta? for feisty that is
[05:41] <ScottK> Yes there are.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> soulrider_: they're broken at the moment, see #ubuntu+1
[05:41] <soulrider_> oh, where can i get them ?
[05:41] <soulrider_> oh :(
[05:41] <ScottK> This is not a good time for updating.
[05:42] <ScottK> If you can install the Beta, go with that for now.
[05:42] <soulrider_> well, i needed to install kubuntu on 2 machines, so i thought feisty would be a good idea
[05:42] <ScottK> Beta + latest updates gets you to current.
[05:42] <soulrider_> do you think feisty is gonna be delayed ?
[05:42] <ScottK> I don't know enough to have an opinion.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> who knows.  maybe, maybe not.  by a couple of days, maybe
[05:42] <soulrider_> ok, i think im just gonna install edgy then :)
[05:43] <Hobbsee> depends how many people test the cds, etc
[05:43] <soulrider_> i see, thanks for the hwlp :)
[05:44] <ScottK> soulrider: Or wait a day or so and install the release candidate when it's announced.  Depends on how rushed you are.
[05:45] <soulrider> rushed as in it needs to be done today :P
[05:45] <soulrider> my dad asked me to install linux, i wanna get it done ASAP, he needs to leave that windows crap
[05:46] <soulrider> i still dont know what to install, if kubuntu or Arch, but i think ill go for kubuntu
[05:47] <ScottK> soulrider: Install Edgy
[05:48] <soulrider> yeah, i think im gonna go for edgy
[05:48] <ScottK> If you're leaving it in the hands of someone who isn't experience with Linux, install the released version.
[05:48] <soulrider> are they changing the decoratons in feisty ?
[05:48] <soulrider> the one sin dapper ownt he ones in edgy
[05:48] <Hobbsee> soulrider: what's there now, in terms of decoration, is final
[05:49] <soulrider> oh, ok Hobbsee
[05:49] <soulrider> i havnt seen you in a while :)
[05:49] <Hobbsee> and working, and such
[05:49] <soulrider> yeah.. me too >.<
[05:50] <soulrider> college, suchs all the time out of me
[05:50] <soulrider> oh :)
[05:50] <soulrider> its midnight right ?
[05:50] <Hobbsee> 2am
[05:50] <soulrider> oh
[05:50] <soulrider> 13 hours ahead of me :P
[05:51] <Hobbsee> yep
[06:37] <Riddell> nixternal, ScottK, kwwii: testers needed for kmail http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdepim/
[06:37] <Riddell> mhb: ^^
[06:38] <kwwii> Riddell: I'll install that when I get back from grocery shopping
[06:40] <mhb> kmail only?
[06:42] <mhb> Riddell: kmail installed, anything specific to try?
[06:45] <Riddell> mhb: imap I guess
[06:45] <Riddell> mhb: I added a load of patches that debian kindly had to fix various crashes
[06:47] <mhb> oh, my imap provider is down at the moment, pop/gmail seems to work fine
[06:50] <ScottK> Riddell: Can we get the changelog so we know what to look for?
[06:51] <Riddell> ScottK: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/508  those kde svn revisions
[06:53] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks
[07:02] <firephoto> Riddell: tested kmail, no imap here, haven't found any problems with my normal usage or clicking through the settings.
[07:03] <Riddell> thanks firephoto
[07:30] <nixternal> Riddell: what is the extreme latest I can have the docs package complete? Slovenian translation error has been found, but carlos and them can't do anything until the db admins respond. they said they would contact me as soon as the issue is fixed
[07:30] <nixternal> otherwise I can package now and we skip that one translation file
[07:31] <Riddell> nixternal: I'd say package now, it can be updated if the fix comes in time
[07:31] <nixternal> roger
[07:31] <Riddell> no fixed time set for release at the moment so I can't give you must of a deadline
[07:35] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: IMAP is not a happy camper.
[07:36] <ScottK-laptop> I last tried IMAP in Feb and this is worse.
[07:36] <Riddell> fooey
[07:37] <ScottK-laptop> 1.  Inbox is not updated.  Even when I check for new mail, the old mail is still there.  I had this problem before.  If you can suggest where this is stored, maybe if I kill the stale store it'll be better.
[07:37] <\sh> ScottK-laptop: you mean kmails imap?
[07:37] <ScottK-laptop> Yeah
[07:38] <ScottK-laptop> 2.  New a phantom ~/ duplicate set of mail folders that appear as a sub folder.
[07:38] <\sh> ScottK-laptop: the problem is more the imap stack in kmail...
[07:39] <ScottK-laptop> I always try kmail imap and get disgusted in about a minute and give up.
[07:39] <\sh> it's just crap right now...I tried sylpheed-claws with my imapd from cyrus, and it's working even with a 4gb mailbox
[07:39] <Riddell> \sh: he's testing some new packages with patches
[07:39] <fdoving> imap patches?
[07:39] <nixternal> Riddell: all I need to do with that tmp/ for kdepim is wget * and dpkg -i * correct? nothing tricky with it
[07:40] <ScottK> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdepim/
[07:40] <Riddell> nixternal: yes
[07:40] <Riddell> fdoving: testers welcome
[07:40] <\sh> Riddell: hmm...I'll test it too, when I'm back home and have highspeed internet again
[07:40] <fdoving> Riddell: do you have a debdiff or a link to the patches? - i'm on ppc.
[07:43] <ScottK-laptop> http://www.kitterman.com/test/snapshot1.png
[07:43] <ScottK-laptop> There's the file structure strangeness I'm seeing.
[07:44] <ScottK-laptop> It's displaying a duplicate folder structure under ~/ and pulling in an FTP directory from I have no idea where.
[07:44] <fdoving> cmake is so nice, can't wait for kde4 to become usable as a main desktop :)
[07:45] <ScottK-laptop> It didn't do that before (as in a month or two ago), so that's some kind of regression.
[07:46] <ScottK-laptop> Note the dates on all but the first message in the inbox.
[07:47] <Riddell> fdoving: hang on
[07:47] <ScottK-laptop> The good news is ksnapshot works great with the installed print screen key.
[07:48] <Riddell> :)
[07:48] <Riddell> fdoving: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdepim_3.5.6-0ubuntu7.debdiff
[07:48] <fdoving> Riddell: thanks.
[07:57] <ScottK-laptop> pop3 and smpt seem fine.
[08:02] <ScottK-laptop> I guess that's smtp
[08:02] <ScottK-laptop> STARTTLS and SMTPS SSL are both good with SMTP Auth
[08:05] <ScottK-laptop> Well I rm -Rf ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail and I got rid of the stuck messages in imap, but still have the directory configuration issue I showed in the screenshot
[08:08] <ScottK-laptop> Thunderbird IMAP does not have any trouble with my providers IMAP directory structure, so I'm definitely going to blame kmail for this one.
[08:08] <fdoving> what server is that?
[08:09] <ScottK-laptop> Do you mean what IMAP server do the use?  Don't recall.  I'll check.
[08:10] <fdoving> what imap-server-software.
[08:11] <fdoving> uw-imap is broken in most cases. even if a few clients are trying to work around its brokenness
[08:11] <fdoving> only pine can handle that server properly. as it's written mainly by the same man.
[08:13] <ScottK-laptop> * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 LITERAL+ SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS AUTH=LOGIN]  kitterman.com IMAP4rev1 2004.357-p2k server ready at Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:12:56 -0400 (EDT)
[08:13] <ScottK-laptop> Their web site doesn't say.
[08:14] <ScottK-laptop> According to Mr. Google that's uw-imap
[08:15] <ScottK-laptop> In may be broken, but kmail is dealing with it even less well now than it did before.
[08:15] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Anything else you want me to look at while I'm here?  I have some actual paying work I need to get back to soon.
[08:16] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: no, that's all thanks
[08:16] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  I'll leave the packages installed in case you think of something else.
[08:19] <nixternal> so everyone is testing kdepim and imap it seems, good, I have the POP3 covered then
[08:19] <nixternal> ls
[08:19] <nixternal> doh
[08:19] <ScottK> If by everyone you mean me, then yes.
[08:31] <nixternal> all seems well so far with the kdepim updates
[08:31] <nixternal> there were dependency errors with kleopatra that were easily fixed, other than that, it seems OK for me
[08:31] <nixternal> anything specific that should be tested?
[08:38] <ScottK> nixternal: I've run into an issue you might try to reproduce...
[08:38] <nixternal> what is that?
[08:39] <ScottK> I don't store passwords on the test box, so when I open Kontact it pops open a window to ask for the password.  If I leave Kontact open and reboot, when it pops that extra window open I get the "You appear to have more than once instance of Kontact" warning.
[08:39] <ScottK> When I say not to start the "second" instance, I get no Kontact at all.
[08:40] <ScottK> The password window shouldn't be tripping that check I wouldn't think.
[08:40] <nixternal> ya, that has happened with releases prior to this one iirc
[08:40] <ScottK> OK
[08:40] <nixternal> I use a password from kwallet
[08:41] <nixternal> and I know if I don't auth first and then reboot, like after an upgrade or fixing my system, I will get that same warning iirc
[08:42] <ScottK> OK.  I don't see a bug, so I'll file one.
[08:46] <ScottK> It's a real problem though.  When I don't say no to the dialog I actually get two instances running.
[08:47] <ScottK> Riddell: Another issue for you ^^^
[09:02] <Riddell> nixternal: how's the docs?
[09:02] <nixternal> creating the makefile now
[09:02] <nixternal> slow process of testing thats for sure
[09:04] <ScottK> Riddell: Bug #16305 with a backtrace (I installed the debug packages).
[09:04] <ubotu> Malone bug 16305 in openoffice.org2 "Importing pyuno raises SystemError: dynamic module not initialized properly" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/16305
[09:04] <ScottK> Oops.
[09:04] <ScottK> Bug #106305
[09:04] <ubotu> Malone bug 106305 in kdepim "Kontact SIGSEGV in kdepim_3.5.6-0ubuntu7 when clicking "Configure Kmail"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106305
[09:04] <Riddell> mm, I'm thinking I might not want to upload kdepim
[09:24] <atypic> Ahem. This is a poke to whomever it might concert. I would like to help out on the development of kubuntu.
[09:24] <atypic> ...*concern.
[09:33] <goldenear> I'm trying to update from edgy to feisty as explained in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades
[09:34] <goldenear> but it doesn't work...
[09:34] <goldenear> The full upgrade button in Adept is disabled (grey)
[09:36] <goldenear> do I have to test the update methode for server (update-manager) ?
[09:39] <Daskreech> seele: You are talking about giving basic CS Uni training to all users of the Live CD
[09:39] <firephoto> goldenear: it's just grey because your system is up to date, you should be able to continue on with the instructions.
[09:43] <atypic> I hate to nag, but should I perhaps show my interest some other place, like on the mailing list; as opposed to here?
[09:43] <goldenear> If your system is up to date, the upgrade wizard will be offered it via the Version Upgrade button <-- where's that button ?
[09:45] <Riddell> goldenear: follow the beta instructions
[09:46] <goldenear> ok I was on the wrong instruction page :)
[09:46] <goldenear> found it now :D
[09:47] <firephoto> ScottK: I don't get that crash you mention in 106305. i tried it on on a new user too.
[09:47] <ScottK> I didn't get it after I restarted either.
[09:48] <ScottK> At the time I was replicating the multiple instances at startup problem I discussed above with nixternal.
[09:49] <ScottK> It may be a legacy of having previously had two instances running at the same time.
[09:59] <nixternal> talk about a tedious makefile
[10:00] <fdoving> docs makefiles?
[10:00] <nixternal> ya
[10:00] <nixternal> I saved a little time by doing 'ls $$doc/ >$$doc/lang'
[10:01] <nixternal> and then reading that in with `for cc in `cat $$doc/lang`; do
[10:01] <nixternal> which makes future editing a little easier
[10:01] <nixternal> testing it now, seems to be building just fine
[10:02] <nixternal> it makes the html file pretty quickly
[10:02] <nixternal> it is doing it quicker than the $(KBASE)%: junk
[10:03] <fdoving> Riddell: might want to change from sudo to kdesu when executing the dist-upgrader at the FeistyUpgrades page, beta section.
[10:03] <fdoving> didn't work for me with sudo.
[10:03] <fdoving> nixternal: i don't remember. probably sean wheller.
[10:03] <nixternal> whew ;p
[10:03] <fdoving> i think i did only packaging.
[10:04] <fdoving> my name should be somewhere in there :)
[10:05] <nixternal> ya, it was I think
[10:05] <nixternal> dunno if it made it into the new makefiles or not
[10:05] <fdoving> doesn't matter anyway. :)
[10:05] <nixternal> ya, the new make files is tbh: and clean:
[10:05] <nixternal> that is it
[10:05] <fdoving> the new dist-upgrader is nice.
[10:05] <nixternal> s/is/are tbh:/
[10:05] <nixternal> that is to upgrade from edgy > feisty correct?
[10:06] <fdoving> yes.
[10:06] <seele> Daskreech: if average users can't install Kubuntu, how are they ever supposed to use it?
[10:06] <nixternal> OK, I am gonna have to install edgy on a box and dist-upgrade them
[10:06] <nixternal> seele: remember, most Windows users do not know how to install Windows :)
[10:06] <seele> nixternal: thats not true
[10:07] <fdoving> most computers come with windows preinstalled.
[10:07] <fdoving> they usually don't need to.
[10:07] <seele> you basically put in the Windows CD and click next
[10:07] <nixternal> fdoving: correct, but when it comes time to reinstall or what not, most "typical" users are stuck
[10:07] <ScottK> seele: Try to do that with Vista...
[10:07] <seele> messing with harddrive space is always going to be difficult, but that doesnt mean it has to be as hard as it is
[10:07] <nixternal> however I think most oems fix that though and make it a "click once" exprience
[10:07] <nixternal> ScottK: that is cheating!
[10:07] <nixternal> haha
[10:09] <nixternal> I remember installing via LiveCD recently, I was lost at that part, so I downloaded the alternate CD instead. The LiveCD partitioning is/was kind of nuts
[10:09] <fdoving> i always use the alternate installer, i like d-i. then i don't consider myself an average user either.
[10:11] <fdoving> i have tried the livecd a few times, it's OK. i just like d-i better.
[10:12] <Daskreech> atypic: What do you want to help with?
[10:13] <nott2> have they upload the fix for kernel 2.6.20-14 yet ?, note: there seem to be a error with the website "403"
[10:13] <fdoving> nott2: yes, it's in progress afaik.
[10:14] <Daskreech> seele: True but how many of the users you tested understand what a hard drive was?
[10:14] <Daskreech> ScottK: Loads I would bet :)
[10:15] <nott2> fdoving: thanks, for the heads up
[10:16] <Daskreech> I always have an alternate CD but I mostly use the Desktop since a) it's much faster and b) it's fun to be able to do stuff like hang out here while installing
[10:16] <atypic> That is the question I was hoping you(or someone) could help me answer. I'm basically a uni.student with a bit of time on my hands and knowledge of C, perl and a few other languages. I need somewhere to start - Now, I realize of course that I can run around trying to track bugs and the like, but in the end that sounds rather discouraging. I'd much rather help out on something a bit more specific...
[10:17] <ScottK> atypic: Do you have any experience with KDE programming?
[10:17] <Daskreech> seele: I think that if people know what a hard drive is then it's just explaining the term partition
[10:17] <Daskreech> atypic: Choose something you like/ you think needs help
[10:18] <ScottK> atypic: There is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[10:20] <fdoving> atypic: anything special you like to do? most of KDE is C++ and qt, there are also a few python programs.
[10:23] <atypic> I've coded QT and found it enjoyable, it's basically the reason I use kubuntu.
[10:25] <ScottK> atypic: klamav is in need of some love at the moment.  Interested in looking at it?
[10:25] <ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/klamav/
[10:28] <atypic> Yeah, that looks interesting. I'll start looking at it right now.
[11:12] <seele> Daskreech: they know what a hard drive is.. but "partition" is degrees higher in understanding
[11:13] <Daskreech> seele: How?
[11:15] <Daskreech> If you can understand volume you must be able to grasp putting volume aside for a purpose
[11:17] <ScottK> IIRC Apple uses the term slice of a hard drive in their documentation.
[11:18] <Daskreech> Yeah which doesn't make much more sense :)
[11:20] <seele> ScottK: and that doesnt do much better of a job of getting the point across
[11:21] <seele> understanding the concept of a partition is much different from understanding a "folder"
[11:21] <seele> it requires some understanding how the computer works
[11:21] <seele> its not in the average users vocabulary
[11:22] <seele> they dont talk about it on the news or tech shopper guide
[11:22] <seele> you assume that every user with even high level computer understanding is familiar with partitions
[11:23] <seele> but i tested a guy who had two years of a uni computer science program who didnt know what was going on
[11:23] <seele> and hes more advanced than what we typically classify as "average"
[11:23] <rbrunhuber> there is a problem with update in feisty:
[11:23] <rbrunhuber> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main linux-image-2.6.20-14-generic 2.6.20-14.23
[11:23] <rbrunhuber>   403 Forbidden [IP: 91.189.88.31 80] 
[11:24] <nixternal> rbrunhuber: it is known, it will eventually work itself out
[11:24] <rbrunhuber> nixternal: permission problems are normally not the kind of problems that works themselfes out (my experience)
[11:24] <Daskreech> seele: That is true. I know people who can install hard drives but don't know the concept of a partition
[11:25] <ScottK> rbrunhuber: It's on purpose to keep you from downloading a known bad kernel
[11:25] <nixternal> rbrunhuber: they have done that to temporarily disallow people from downloading the broken kernel upgrade
[11:25] <Daskreech> seele: My point is that it is not a vast jump once you know what a hard drive is different from a mouse
[11:25] <seele> Daskreech: and you would expect someone who can install a hard drive be able to install an operating system.. yet if they dont know what a partition is theyre going to fail
[11:25] <seele> Daskreech: i disagree, it is a very big jump
[11:25] <marseillai_> nixternal: but 14.24 is avalaible so why apt-get still want download the 14.23 too ?
[11:26] <rbrunhuber> Scott, nixternal: I see.
[11:26] <seele> i'm not saying that partitions are bad, but we are finding ubiquity is doing less than an effective job of supporting users who dont have enough information to deal with them
[11:26] <nixternal> marseillai_: dunno, haven't looked much into it, I am just regurgetating what I was told earlier
[11:26] <marseillai_> oki
[11:26] <marseillai_> continue to wait
[11:26] <seele> and knowing how a partition works exactly should not be a prerequisite to installing an operating system
[11:26] <ScottK> marseillai_: Is it in that repository for the correct architecture yet?
[11:27] <rbrunhuber> The other question is why want i download this image if it downloaded 2.6.20-15-generic in the same run?
[11:27] <marseillai_> ScottK: dunno
[11:27] <rbrunhuber> /me kicks out the old -14 kernel and all should be fixed
[11:29] <nott2> I try to update, but the keep getting "403", kernel 2.6.20-14 cash the sys
[11:29] <nixternal> this docs package will be building forever
[11:31] <Daskreech> seele: I agree it's not being brought across properly but I think that if you can get the concept that your hard drive is a space for you to store things (like having a cabinet) then you can understand putting aside space for a purpose (like having a room to put the cabinet in)
[11:33] <Daskreech> seele: We just need to figure out a nice little mascot that explains it. Like Get Perpendicular :)
[11:34] <Daskreech> seele: Well ... I guess not knowing what a partition is shouldn't be a requirement. But doesn't ubiquity have a handle this for me button?
[11:39] <Daskreech> seele: Oh one question
[11:40] <Daskreech> Are you looking at people who don't understand what a hard drive is or people who understand but are confused by partitions?
[11:45] <seele> no
[11:45] <atypic> I don't really see how anyone can fail to "get it" when they see a pizza-slice diagram and a little explanation that says "this is all the room your computer has for programs and files"  - "this is a part we are reserving for this and that, this is another..."
[11:46] <seele> i am looking at people who have experience installing and configuring applications on their computer and or (re)installing windows
[11:46] <seele> atypic: you know how it works so its easy for you to understand
[11:46] <seele> the problem is "partition" isnt even in their vocabulary
[11:47] <seele> so even after you explain it, its not clear
[11:47] <seele> which.. thats ok if they can get it enough to figure out where they want to install something
[11:47] <seele> but the problem is compounded when the tools to interact with the partition do not support users who do not have intimate knowledge of how they work
[11:47] <seele> then you start to see some serious conceptual problems -- as we are seeing in ubiquity
[11:48] <Daskreech> seele: Yeah. I was trying to sort out the interface
[11:48] <Daskreech> one of the problems  is that Windows users are comfortale with thining of partitions as a nwe drive
[11:49] <Daskreech>  new
[11:49] <Daskreech>  I think there is only one place in the Windows Ecosystem that it is shown otherwise
[11:49] <seele> well they dont know of it as a partition
[11:49] <seele> they see it as a drive
[11:49] <seele> and most of the times.. it *is* a new physical drive
[11:51] <Daskreech>  and even there it's split to show the "true view" and the view they are used to working with
[11:51] <Daskreech> seele: Yeah but the point is they don't know the difference
[11:52] <Daskreech> a partiton is the same as DVD burner
[11:52] <seele> yes
[11:52] <Daskreech> Hmm
[11:52] <Daskreech> Ok seeing your dillema
[11:52] <Daskreech> Is canonical averse to question mark buttons
[11:53] <seele> no idea
[11:55] <Riddell> fdoving: why kdesu?
[12:00] <Daskreech> I could see a pretty detailed (but light) explanation of partitions on a button tied to the word
[12:02] <seele> in addition to fixing the interface so the user doesn't have to rely on the knowledge as much? :)
[12:05] <Daskreech> seele: I don't know how fast that's going to happen :-D but yes of course in addition to that
[12:11] <nixternal> Riddell: should we skip translations that are less than 25% complete like ubuntu-docs does?