[05:59] <wowow> hey guys
[05:59] <wowow> installing dapper on intel chipset systems is a problem, screen goes all black 3/4'rs of the way through
[05:59] <wowow> and not sure how to push the install through
[05:59] <wowow> has anyone seen this before or knows of tips to help rectify the issue?
[05:59] <wowow> note: all terminals have gone black with one ... white character pixel in the middle of the screen
[06:00] <wowow> i've only noticed this ONLY on intel chipset mobos
[06:00] <wowow> anyone?
[08:54] <cjwatson> wowow: xresprobe problem IIRC rather than an installer problem as such. Wait half an hour or so to make sure, and then hit Enter and it'll probably boot.
[08:55] <wowow> oh really?
[08:55] <wowow> you know what?
[08:55] <wowow> that worked exactly once ... didn't realize it was half hour
[08:55] <wowow> damn installing feisty right now ... hmm
[08:55] <wowow> cjwatson, thanks for the heads up!
[08:55] <wowow> any hint on wha tmight be going on with xres?
[09:45] <cjwatson> there's a bug about it somewhere (well, at least ten), but it's not my field of knowledge
[09:45] <cjwatson> half an hour is probably an exaggeration, but ...
[09:53] <snoops> evand hi - I'm wondering what your plan for the migration-assistant is? What do you envisage it becoming/doing etc?
[10:05] <evand> snoops: Well, I haven't written the spec for Gutsy yet, and we still need to discuss things at UDS, however there are a few things that stand out...
[10:05] <evand> KDE support is critical.
[10:06] <evand> Vista support is something I'd like to cover, which shouldn't be too hard as the registry format hasn't changed...
[10:06] <evand> OS X support should be feasible, but I'm willing to let that one slide if I don't find enough time for it
[10:06] <evand> the main thing is adding targets for Windows XP/Vista
[10:07] <evand> it doesn't import the actual email yet, and it doesn't import from Thunderbird
[10:07] <evand> there are more things that can be imported from IE, Firefox, and Opera
[10:07] <snoops> importing from outlook (not express) would be great - except for the silly format it uses
[10:07] <evand> indeed, that's a big one
[10:08] <snoops> I would like to try and add support for different im clients - googletalk, msn
[10:08] <evand> that would be great
[10:08] <evand> the biggest problem there has been figuring out where the password is stored and how to decode it
[10:08] <evand> as you can imagine, the IM clients aren't very forthcoming with that information
[10:09] <evand> and it's kind of sucky that it doesn't import the passwords now, as I can imagine people easily forgetting their AIM password
[10:09] <snoops> hehe...I can imagine
[10:09] <evand> GoogleTalk is something I completely forgot about
[10:09] <snoops> one thing I think would be great is importing your history - for instance msn saves history in xml files and applies and xslt stylesheet for viewing
[10:10] <evand> That would be pretty easy to pull in as the only major dependency that m-a has right now is libxml2
[10:10] <evand> which makes reading such files trivial
[10:11] <snoops> excellent - and with that format to gaim/kopete etc
[10:11] <evand> I try to avoid pulling in major libraries as I'd like to see Debian use this in d-i (hopefully with the polishing for that getting done this development cycle)
[10:11] <evand> indeed
[10:11] <snoops> skype is another one
[10:12] <evand> definitely
[10:12] <evand> some people have suggested installing it as well, but I believe that's bloat.
[10:13] <evand> I'm willing to discuss such an idea if someoene brings it up at UDS or on the VoIP like during the m-a spec meeting at UDS
[10:13] <evand> s/like/line/
[10:13] <snoops> perhaps making an install.sh file on the desktop to install those proprietary apps - skype, opera
[10:13] <evand> oh!  One really big thing I forgot to mention...
[10:13] <evand> migration-assistant merges things
[10:14] <snoops> oh?
[10:14] <evand> so for IM clients it looks in the Gaim accounts file, sees if the account is there, if not, it puts it in
[10:14] <evand> it doesn't just copy things 1-to-1
[10:14] <evand> which can be difficult, but really increases the things we can do with it
[10:14] <snoops> yep I agree with that
[10:15] <evand> I'd prefer actually installing the packages over a script that does it, but I'm still quite weary of that.
[10:15] <snoops> what's the gui for it like (sorry I haven't tried feisty yet)? Are there a bunch of tick boxes for what you want to import?
[10:15] <snoops> or is it just - try to import everything
[10:15] <evand> http://evalicious.com/migration-assistant.png
[10:16] <snoops> superb
[10:16] <evand> it looks slightly different now
[10:16] <evand> there's an explanation that those boxes on the bottom are for the account you're importing into
[10:17] <snoops> oh, itunes importing would be a valuable one, as well as winamp
[10:17] <evand> you can import multiple accounts from multiple operating systems into a single account or as many accounts as you'd like
[10:17] <snoops> the winamp one would be good, since you can read the playlist file for all the locations of files
[10:17] <evand> it actually already imports from iTunes in that iTunes puts all your music in My Music and it copies that
[10:17] <evand> I'll look into what winamp does though
[10:21] <snoops> I'd really like to help out with this - migration is something I personally believe can be improved a lot
[10:21] <snoops> how about things like network settings
[10:22] <evand> you're more than welcome to branch off of trunk and develop from there, then let me know the url so I can merge it into trunk where necessary
[10:22] <evand> network settings is definitely on the list
[10:22] <evand> whether to stop at wireless settings or do something crazier like windows domain membership remains to be seen
[10:23] <snoops> is the list in your head or is there a a todo list?
[10:23] <evand> I have a tomboy note for it, which I'll pretty soon convert into a spec for Gutsy
[10:23] <evand> or at least the draft for one
[10:24] <evand> I don't know if you're familiar with the Ubuntu release process, but basically there's a developer summit in Spain starting on the 6th, where we'll gather and write up specs for the features that should be in Gutsy
[10:24] <evand> for those that cannot make it to spain, there's VoIP lines for each spec meeting
[10:24] <snoops> what do you think about the install.sh idea for apps like opera/skype? That could be extended a bit more for things like vlc etc
[10:25] <snoops> I'm in New Zealand, doubt I'll be able to make it to spain..voip would be cool though :)
[10:25] <evand> once the specs are finalized, then we do feature development for a few months, then things get locked down for bug fixing
[10:25] <evand> yes, you should definitely call in.  The information for that will be posted as we get closer to the event.
[10:26] <evand> I'm not keen on an install.sh script.  The proper way to do it would be to have the installer actually install said packages, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.  It's definitely something we can discuss further at the summit, when there's more than just the two of us talking about it.
[10:27] <evand> In my head it comes down to is that within the scope of migration-assistant, but we shall see
[10:27] <snoops> yep, cool
[10:28] <snoops> I'll mull away at a few things - like a im-history-import
[10:28] <snoops> and take a look at googletalk
[10:28] <evand> awesome, let me know if you need any guidence or explanation of the code
[10:32] <snoops> I don't think this is directly in the migration scope, but one thing I had trouble with when first getting into linux was what application replaces the one I used in windows.. Do you see any potential after looking at a hdd (and the list of programs) for a list suggesting.. "for outlook, outlook express use evolution", "for photoshop, mspaint, paint.net try the gimp, or gimpshop" etc
[10:38] <evand> I see that as more of a documentation and naming issue
[10:38] <snoops> yep, cool.
[10:39] <evand> the ubiquity-slideshow spec sort of covers this, but I don't think the intention was to explain what applications are used as replacements, but rather what exciting features are in this release
[10:39] <snoops> Over the next couple weeks when I get time I'll try to start chipping away at various settings - skype, network settings, msn, gtalk
[10:40] <evand> great!  keep me posted
[10:41] <snoops> thanks - and I must say, I really appreciate being able to talk to the person who's made this, to get some insight. It's been very helpful
[10:42] <evand> anytime, thanks for your interest
[02:55] <saispo> hi
[02:56] <saispo> if i use apt-install or apt-get install in a preinst or postinst file with debconf, it's possible to get a progress bar ?
[02:58] <cjwatson> err, a preinst or postinst where?
[02:59] <saispo> in a meta package
[02:59] <cjwatson> preinsts aren't allowed in d-i and neither preinsts nor postinsts of regular (non-udeb) packages are allowed to install other packages
[02:59] <cjwatson> metapackages should just depend on other packages, not do crazy things like trying to apt-get install them
[03:00] <saispo> cjwatson: yes, i understand
[03:00] <saispo> but when i preseed an installation of a metapackage in d-i, the progress bar stop...
[03:00] <cjwatson> the packaging system isn't re-entrant - you can't call it recursively
[03:00] <cjwatson> if you try, stuff will break
[03:01] <saispo> cjwatson: ok, not possible ?
[03:01] <cjwatson> nope
[03:01] <saispo> hmmm
[03:01] <cjwatson> when you get a hang, check syslog
[03:01] <cjwatson> but in general, don't try to call dpkg/apt/etc. from maintainer scripts. :)
[03:01] <saispo> no hang :) it install the package but the progress bar stop on "preseeding application..."
[03:01] <saispo> cjwatson: ok :)
[03:02] <cjwatson> "preseeding application" isn't a string in the installer - this must be your code
[03:03] <saispo> cjwatson: i don't think it's the real phrase i have :)
[03:03] <cjwatson> you must never paraphrase messages
[03:04] <saispo> the progress bar hangs when i use preseed_latecommande="apt-install eole --force-yes" for example
[03:04] <cjwatson> that's (a) full of typos (b) not legal apt-install syntax
[03:04] <cjwatson> apt-install != apt-get install
[03:05] <saispo> --force-yes it's not comptible with apt-install ?
[03:05] <cjwatson> no
[03:06] <saispo> i just want to enhance the d-i for my project :) just this, if it's not possible, it's not possible :)
[03:07] <cjwatson> sure, but don't make up options and expect them to work ;)
[03:07] <saispo> :)
[03:08] <cjwatson> there is no reason it should not be possible to install extra packages, as long as those packages don't do abnormal things in their maintainer scripts
[03:08] <saispo> cjwatson: and if i create a metapackage which includes three metapackages and i use debconf-apt-progress in a preseed_latecommand, it's not possible too ? :)
[03:09] <cjwatson> it is possible with very careful use of in-target, but it is not easy to get right and I would recommend you keep it simple
[03:10] <saispo> yep
[03:10] <saispo> i think it's more safe :)
[03:10] <cjwatson> I would advise just using apt-install and not worrying about the progress bar
[03:10] <saispo> i will must switch to ubiquity ;-)
[03:10] <cjwatson> or preseeding pkgsel to install your packages, in which case you will get a progress bar
[03:11] <saispo> if i use pkgsel, i must modify pkgsel-data packages no ?
[03:11] <cjwatson> this is documented in the preseeding appendix of the installation guide
[03:11] <cjwatson> under "Package selection"
[03:11] <saispo> ok, will see this
[03:11] <saispo> i don't understand how to create pkgsel-data... will read :) thanks
[03:12] <cjwatson> "pkgsel-data" does not exist
[03:13] <saispo> k
[03:14] <saispo> #d-i pkgsel/include string openssh-server build-essential if i change openssh-server with my metapackage, i will get a progress bar you think ?
[03:15] <cjwatson> it will be included in the pkgsel stage of the installer which has a progress bar
[03:15] <saispo> ok, thanks
[03:15] <saispo> will test this :)
[03:16] <saispo> but i can use preseed_latecommand="pkgsel eole" at the prompt boot cd ?
[03:16] <saispo> or i must write it in the preseed file ?
[03:16] <cjwatson> that is completely garbled - please read the documentation!
[03:16] <cjwatson> it is release time, I cannot possibly read the manual for you at this point, I'm sorry
[03:17] <saispo> i understand, no problem
[03:17] <saispo> i have some difficult to understand the difference between pkgsel and tasksel...
[03:17] <cjwatson> you do not need to; read the documentation
[03:17] <saispo> k
[03:17] <saispo> thanks Colin :)
[03:18] <cjwatson> I'm afraid you must enter things precisely as documented rather than guessing - there is no indication anywhere in the manual that "pkgsel" might be valid as a command inside preseed/late_command (not preseed_latecommand, which is mentioned nowhere)
[03:19] <saispo> you're right :)
[03:20] <saispo> because i have to problem, and i try to resolve the two problems with one solution, and it's not the good solutionn
[03:21] <saispo> the second problem is to have a choice in d-i for a preseed schema partion or manually do it...
[04:40] <saispo> cjwatson: pkgsel work fine, thanks :)
[04:58] <cjwatson> good
[05:50] <poningru> hmm anyone here familiar with the sparc installer?
[05:50] <cjwatson> only in broad terms
[05:50] <poningru> we need someone for the 7.04 final 'tour'
[05:51] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/RC
[05:52] <poningru> specifically https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/RC?action=show&redirect=Ubuntu704Features#head-97f528cdec6aa0524271cdcc137149e6fbc950ab
[05:52] <poningru> cjwatson: just a feature writeup is what we need
[05:52] <poningru> and if you have any suggestions to add to that would wonderfull too
[05:55] <cjwatson> ask fabbione
[06:34] <CIA-16> oem-config: cjwatson * r285 oem-config/ (debian/changelog lib/components/console_setup.py):
[06:34] <CIA-16> oem-config: * Update Japanese keyboard layout handling to match console-setup
[06:34] <CIA-16> oem-config:  1.7ubuntu18, which uses jp(latin),jp by default (LP: #63915).