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| rpereira | Hi, I updated my desktop with Feisty RC and I'm getting on booting: "Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition". What can I do? | 02:56 |
|---|---|---|
| crimsun | which kernel is this? | 02:56 |
| rpereira | I updated 2 hours ago. | 02:56 |
| crimsun | so, -15.27? Can you verify? | 02:57 |
| rpereira | I know is 2.6.20-15 | 02:57 |
| rpereira | How can I verify if it isn't booting at all? | 02:57 |
| crimsun | boot from a desktop cd, chroot, dpkg -l linux-image-2.6.20-15-generic | 02:58 |
| rpereira | OK. | 02:59 |
| rpereira | I will do it. | 02:59 |
| rpereira | Which version is working? | 02:59 |
| crimsun | -15.27 WFM, but I don't have affected hardware | 03:00 |
| rpereira | OK. | 03:00 |
| rpereira | I will keep my notebook kernel for security reasons..... | 03:00 |
| rpereira | I'm burning the CD, so wait some minutes please. | 03:03 |
| rpereira | crimsum: 2.6.20-15.27 | 03:13 |
| rpereira | crimsun: 2.6.20-15.27 | 03:13 |
| rpereira | crimsun: kernel 2.6.20-15.25 works with this computer. | 03:16 |
| crimsun | which mass storage controller(s) do you have? | 03:16 |
| rpereira | If I install on chroot, will I have a problem? | 03:16 |
| crimsun | at this point, the regression from -15.25 is what's interesting. | 03:17 |
| rpereira | OK. Mu mass storage controller is: product: 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7 Family) Serial ATA Storage Controller IDE | 03:18 |
| rpereira | Driver: driver=ata_piix | 03:18 |
| rpereira | Do you need another info? | 03:19 |
| crimsun | lspci -vvn | 03:20 |
| crimsun | should be identical to mine | 03:20 |
| kylem | dmesg is what we need | 03:20 |
| rpereira | kylem: how do I get dmesg with the defectuous kernel? | 03:23 |
| kylem | photograph it or something? | 03:25 |
| rpereira | But when I use the defectuous kernel, my computer get stucked on grub with message: "Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition" | 03:26 |
| crimsun | I've resorted to writing dmesg in the past. Not fun, but certainly feasible. | 03:26 |
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| rpereira | I think that I found the error.... | 03:30 |
| rpereira | At least my computer error. | 03:31 |
| rpereira | When I'm installing a kernel with my CD using chroot and dpkg -i linux-image.... I got the error: | 03:31 |
| rpereira | findfs: Unable to resolve 'UUID=XXXXXXXXXXX...XXXXXX' | 03:32 |
| rpereira | Cannot determine root device. Assuming /dev/hda1 | 03:33 |
| rpereira | This error is probably caused by an invalid /etc/fstab | 03:33 |
| rpereira | That was the error... Sorry for so much pasting... | 03:33 |
| rpereira | My sda1 is my /home | 03:34 |
| rpereira | The UUID printed is correct, but my / partition is hda3. | 03:36 |
| rpereira | So my /etc/fstab is corrected. | 03:36 |
| rpereira | I just had to manually change the root on "/boot/grub/menu.lst" from (hd0,1) to (hd0,2).... And I don't hava any problems anymore with kernel 2.6.20-15.27. | 03:40 |
| rpereira | s/hava/have | 03:41 |
| rpereira | Summarizing: The problem is with the auto generation of grub menu.lst file. | 03:42 |
| pokoko | rpereira, why use UUID in the first place ? | 03:43 |
| pokoko | rpereira, just delete the UUID | 03:43 |
| pokoko | is there donkey kong available for ubuntu. :P | 03:45 |
| rpereira | I do not use it. Some time on updating Ubuntu change from /dev/sdaX to UUID... | 03:45 |
| pokoko | ok ok. | 03:45 |
| pokoko | :) | 03:45 |
| lamont | so if I have a generic headless P2-233 machine doing server-esque stuff, do I want -server or -generic or -686, I wonder? | 03:46 |
| rpereira | crimsun: did you got my messages? | 03:46 |
| crimsun | rpereira: sorry, was away. Yes, I just read scrollback. | 03:47 |
| crimsun | so the kernel is fine, which is a relief, but the upgrade somehow broke? | 03:47 |
| rpereira | Yeap. | 03:47 |
| rpereira | Maybe it is the post-instalation script or grub (if it was upgraded). | 03:48 |
| rpereira | crimsun: Please report this to kernel team (if you're not part of kernel team), my battery is dying.... :-) Thanks for your help. | 03:49 |
| kylem | lamont, a p2? -generic | 03:51 |
| lamont | kylem: yeah - iz glorified printer server | 03:53 |
| lamont | state of the art about the time you were born... :-) | 03:53 |
| lamont | oops. ECHAN | 03:53 |
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| rajlinux | Hi, I am searching for any article describing the serial driver layer changes from Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.5..can anybody help me? | 06:33 |
| crimsun | please see LWN.net archives. | 06:35 |
| rajlinux | I cant find there | 06:39 |
| rajlinux | is there any other place to search? | 06:39 |
| rajlinux | there was one serial.c file in 2.4 and now there is one drivers/serial directory with more than 10 files.. I want to how it was divided.. | 06:40 |
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| drago | Hi, does anyone working on bug abt /proc/kcore ? | 08:35 |
| cjwatson | Nafallo: being unable to sync with Debian is unfortunate, but not a totally overriding concern | 08:39 |
| cjwatson | and if we ask nicely it's possible that Debian might add the epoch too | 08:39 |
| Mithrandir | morning, Colin | 08:42 |
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| heno | Any views on bug 106864? It was reported during testing of 20070415, the latest images. It's different from the sata_nv problems that were fixed, but still looks like a regression. | 11:07 |
| heno | bug 106864 | 11:08 |
| Mithrandir | ubotu isn't in here | 11:10 |
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| cjwatson | heno: too little information to be able to diagnose; I've posted a message requesting more information | 11:26 |
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| heno | cjwatson: ok, thanks. almost seems like a bad disk, but ideally the kernel should cope, no? | 11:27 |
| cjwatson | I see no reason to infer a bad disk from that | 11:27 |
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| zul | g'day | 02:30 |
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| gortiz | hi zul | 02:34 |
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| mdz | kylem: this VMWare performance issue has now been confirmed by Keybuk | 02:46 |
| mdz | kylem: I'm guessing it's something to do with the PIIX driver changes | 02:46 |
| kylem | hmm, bug #? | 02:46 |
| kylem | i'll take a look | 02:47 |
| mdz | kylem: hadn't reported it yet since I thought it was a problem with this PC | 02:49 |
| mdz | kylem: installing current dailies in vmware with ubiquity takes much, much longer than it did before | 02:49 |
| kylem | any idea which day it changed? :\ | 02:49 |
| kylem | (approximately) | 02:49 |
| mdz | kylem: yes, I mentioned it in this channel | 02:50 |
| mdz | let me find the log | 02:50 |
| mdz | kylem: first noticed 12 April ~16:56 BST | 02:51 |
| kylem | ok, thanks. | 02:51 |
| kylem | could i get a dmesg from one of the booted vmware instances? | 02:52 |
| mdz | kylem: yep | 02:52 |
| kylem | awesome. | 02:53 |
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| mdz | kylem: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/dmesg | 02:57 |
| kylem | thanks. | 02:57 |
| mdz | default vmware config for Ubuntu (SCSI disk, ATAPI CD-ROM) | 02:58 |
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| Keybuk | mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/dmesg.vmware-live | 02:59 |
| Keybuk | (booting the Live CD) | 02:59 |
| mdz | Keybuk: 403 | 02:59 |
| Keybuk | fixed | 03:00 |
| mdz | Keybuk: is not | 03:01 |
| Keybuk | err | 03:01 |
| Keybuk | fixed harder | 03:02 |
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| cjwatson | pkl_: can you help kyle with this? kyle has been doing pretty long hours lately. :) | 03:03 |
| pkl_ | Ok | 03:04 |
| pkl_ | Keybuk: fixed for me (403 err) | 03:04 |
| kylem | hm, do you recall offhand if prior to the slow down it was using libata for the cdrom (so it would have been scd0?) | 03:05 |
| cjwatson | pretty sure vmware was using ata_piix before | 03:05 |
| mdz | kylem: no, I don't | 03:05 |
| Keybuk | let me grab a beta CD and compare | 03:06 |
| kylem | Keybuk, thanks. | 03:06 |
| Keybuk | downloading... | 03:07 |
| kylem | i don't see how this could drop the performance though, this driver is what would have been using for years pevious | 03:07 |
| mdz | I have a beta install in vmware already | 03:07 |
| mdz | kylem: maybe the new driver made things much faster? | 03:07 |
| kylem | hrm. | 03:08 |
| mdz | I can see the difference just booting the live CD | 03:08 |
| mdz | comes up much quicker | 03:08 |
| mdz | kylem: do you not have vmware locally? | 03:08 |
| mdz | kylem: yes, beta used scd0 and ata_piix | 03:09 |
| mdz | kylem: is it possible to force ata_piix in current feisty to test? | 03:10 |
| Keybuk | how come we reverted from libata to ide for that driver? | 03:10 |
| mdz | Keybuk: because the new one was fucked | 03:10 |
| kylem | no, we reverted for pata_amd... | 03:11 |
| mdz | keybuk: bug 96857 | 03:11 |
| pkl_ | Pre-moving over to libata (-12 kernel), the cdrom driver would resumably have been this driver? | 03:11 |
| pkl_ | s/resumably/presumably/ | 03:11 |
| kylem | mdz, oh. | 03:12 |
| Keybuk | so we broke vmware to fix qemu? | 03:12 |
| cjwatson | as kyle says, vmware probably used to use piix | 03:13 |
| cjwatson | can somebody boot dapper and/or edgy to test? my vmware box is doing other things at the moment | 03:13 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: weren't you seeing ATA errors in vmware too? | 03:14 |
| cjwatson | that was one of the rationales for reverting IIRC | 03:14 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: I was seeing lots of messages, yeah -- but it did at least work | 03:15 |
| cjwatson | if it worked, why was it being brought up as an issue near release time? | 03:15 |
| pkl_ | keybuk: it works now, but slowly? | 03:15 |
| Keybuk | I brought it up quite a long time before release time :) | 03:16 |
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| pkl_ | before libata, the piix driver would have been used for both CDROM and hard-disks? Now libata is being used for hard-disks, and piix for CDROM. If I understand correctly? | 03:17 |
| kylem | in the case of vmware, we're using a virtual scsi disk for hard disk | 03:18 |
| kylem | argh, Stanislaw and Dmitry hijacked that bug with an unrelated issue. | 03:18 |
| mdz | pkl_: we're using SCSI hard disks, which is the default | 03:19 |
| cjwatson | pkl_: vmware gives you the option of selecting SCSI (BusLogic or LSILogic) or IDE | 03:19 |
| Keybuk | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/dmesg.vmware-beta | 03:20 |
| mdz | cjwatson: the error messages were sufficiently scary that it didn't seem wise to ignore, even if it appeared to work | 03:20 |
| mdz | I don't see the errors with beta, and performance is good there | 03:21 |
| pkl_ | OK. I've never used vmware :) So the virtual scsi disk isn't handled by libata anyway? Just the CDROM that was handled by piix, then libata, and now piix again? | 03:21 |
| mdz | pkl_: that's my assumption, yes | 03:21 |
| cjwatson | - 96857: Broken PIIX support, mostly showed under emulation. This | 03:22 |
| cjwatson | affected qemu, kvm and vmware. All of which have an emulated PIIX | 03:22 |
| cjwatson | IDE chipset. The disk would work fine, but CDROM support would | 03:22 |
| cjwatson | not. Resolved by reverting back to piix.ko (IDE) for Intel PIIX | 03:22 |
| cjwatson | pata chipsets. Piix.ko is much more tested and stable. | 03:22 |
| mdz | if all we did was switch to the same driver we were using before, I have no explanation for the performance regression | 03:22 |
| cjwatson | as a reminder, that was Ben's rationale | 03:22 |
| mdz | cjwatson: yes, Ben said he had reports of it actually not working | 03:22 |
| pkl_ | Could the slow down be completely unrelated? | 03:22 |
| mdz | though we weren't able to reproduce them in our setups | 03:22 |
| cjwatson | he also explained by phone that it affected some older hardware | 03:22 |
| mdz | pkl_: there is always that possibility, yes | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | pkl_: SCSI doesn't need to go through libata ;) | 03:22 |
| mdz | pkl_: do you know of any other changes which may have caused it? | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | beta was using ata_piix, today is using piix | 03:23 |
| mdz | pkl_: did we pull a libata update post-beta? | 03:23 |
| mdz | Keybuk: yeah, just pondering that | 03:24 |
| mdz | so beta had neither performance problems nor errors with ata_piix | 03:24 |
| cjwatson | this suggests that piix has regressed seriously since dapper/edgy/whatever, and that we just haven't noticed it since not enough people are using piix any more | 03:24 |
| mdz | yet we reverted to piix to fix the errors? | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | mdz: confirmed | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: regressed since *beta*, not edgy or dapper! | 03:24 |
| mdz | Keybuk: beta used ata_piix, it may have had this piix problem | 03:24 |
| cjwatson | beta was using ata_piix so the piix module's behaviour is not known | 03:24 |
| pkl_ | mdz: I don't know of any changes. I'll check when the Squashfs update went in, though that shouldn't be causing any issues. | 03:24 |
| cjwatson | libata update went in post-beta | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | ah, good point | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | sorry | 03:24 |
| mdz | pkl_: this problem began around 12 april | 03:25 |
| cjwatson | pkl_: squashfs update didn't make final | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | brain was unsuccessfully on two tracks there | 03:25 |
| cjwatson | it's in git head but not in the branch that actually landed for release | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | errors in ata_piix was regression between feisty beta and today | 03:25 |
| pkl_ | cjatson: there was an update from Squashfs 3.1 to 3.2-r2 that did go in... | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | speed of piix is regression between dapper/edgy and unknown before today | 03:25 |
| pkl_ | this keyboard is playing up... missing characters. | 03:25 |
| cjwatson | oh, right, I thought you meant squashfs setpageerror | 03:25 |
| cjwatson | fair point, that could be implicated | 03:26 |
| cjwatson | can we get lspci -vvnn from vmware, qemu, kvm, parallels? | 03:28 |
| cjwatson | it would be useful to know if vmware has different pci ids from the others, in which case the adjustment will be obvious | 03:28 |
| mdz | http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/lspci-vmware | 03:31 |
| mdz | cjwatson: ^^ | 03:31 |
| mdz | 00:07.1 IDE interface [0101] : Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE [8086:7111] (rev 01) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP] ) | 03:31 |
| cjwatson | ok, that's PCI_DEVICE_ID_INTEL_82371AB | 03:34 |
| === cjwatson grabs the qemu source to xref | ||
| Keybuk | when did the reversion happen, btw? | 03:35 |
| cjwatson | -15.23 | 03:35 |
| Keybuk | my laptop is running 15.27 and has ata_piix loaded, not piix | 03:36 |
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| mdz | BenC: good morning | 03:36 |
| BenC | mdz: hey | 03:36 |
| BenC | rough weather here last night...power went out like 6 times | 03:37 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: yes it's only for a few pci ids | 03:37 |
| kylem | mdz, can you past the next line? (the subvendor line) | 03:37 |
| cjwatson | five, I think | 03:37 |
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| mdz | kylem: URL above | 03:37 |
| pkl_ | parallels (MBP) 00:1f.1 IDE interface [0101] Intel Corporation 82801BA IDE U100 [8086:244b] | 03:37 |
| kylem | sorry, missed that, thanks mdz | 03:37 |
| BenC | did I wake up in the middle of a kernel crisis? | 03:38 |
| kylem | ok, we want to match on subvendor/subdevice if this is something we want to fix. | 03:38 |
| cjwatson | qemu is 8086 7010 I think | 03:38 |
| cjwatson | which is PCI_DEVICE_ID_INTEL_82371SB_1 | 03:38 |
| pkl_ | subsystem: Intel corporation unknown device [8086:4541] | 03:39 |
| cjwatson | so qemu and vmware at least are using different piix drivers, which offers an obvious possibility | 03:39 |
| mdz | BenC: at least a potential crisis | 03:39 |
| cjwatson | BenC: serious cdrom performance regression in vmware apparently since the ata_piix to piix reversion | 03:39 |
| mdz | BenC: do you remember when I mentioned I had slowdown problems in vmware, and was trying to blame it on the host machine or vmware itself? | 03:39 |
| cjwatson | I'm wondering if we blatted back more than we needed to | 03:39 |
| mdz | BenC: Keybuk reproduced it in his vmware as well | 03:39 |
| Mithrandir | how about we just roll a test image with that single re-re-re-reverted? | 03:40 |
| cjwatson | I don't like just reverting this because it fixed several potential problems | 03:40 |
| BenC | the bad thing about ata_piix was the exceptions on the cdrom | 03:40 |
| cjwatson | has anyone checked qemu lately? | 03:40 |
| cjwatson | or kvm, with current images? | 03:41 |
| BenC | cjwatson: I had several people confirm qemu working | 03:41 |
| BenC | I can test kvm real quick | 03:41 |
| mdz | BenC: we discovered that those appeared sometime after beta | 03:41 |
| mdz | BenC: beta works with ata_piix just fine without errors and with good performance | 03:41 |
| BenC | mdz: right, they happened after the drivers/ata/ sync with libata-dev stable | 03:41 |
| cjwatson | the libata updates weren't done for fun though - they fixed other problems, right? | 03:41 |
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| BenC | right | 03:41 |
| BenC | mainly they enabled DMA for pata | 03:42 |
| BenC | which I believe is the source of the exceptions on ata_piix for ATAPI devices | 03:42 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: check if dma is enabled on your emulated cd drive? | 03:43 |
| BenC | but disabling DMA for ATAPI in ata_piix would probably get us the same problem that you are experiencing now | 03:43 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: it is, in both cases | 03:43 |
| mdz | checked that | 03:43 |
| BenC | note, we've got near zero changes to drivers/ide/ compared to stock 2.6.20 | 03:43 |
| BenC | only thing of note is ide-acpi | 03:43 |
| cjwatson | BenC: it's sounding like piix performance has regressed compared to 2.6.17 or so, whenever we were last using piix for vmware systems | 03:44 |
| BenC | you can disable that with a module param, I can find it if you want to test it | 03:44 |
| mdz | BenC: when did we switch from piix to ata_piix? | 03:44 |
| BenC | mdz: for some PCI id's we've been using it since dapper, I believe | 03:44 |
| BenC | edgy a few more were moved, and for feisty we ended up switching all of them, all based on what upstream was doing | 03:45 |
| cjwatson | BenC: 8086:7111 is the ID in question | 03:45 |
| BenC | so it's been a gradual change | 03:45 |
| BenC | that one would be one of the last to change | 03:45 |
| BenC | that's why it was part of the 5 moved back to piix during our Great Kernel Fixing Extravaganza | 03:46 |
| BenC | let me copy a feisty image over and test kvm real quick | 03:47 |
| BenC | also need to disconnect my generator so I can switch power back to the barn for possible builds | 03:48 |
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| poningru | quick question | 03:49 |
| poningru | why does the kernel get symlinked to /? | 03:49 |
| poningru | and the init image as well | 03:49 |
| cjwatson | historical | 03:49 |
| poningru | any particular historical reason? | 03:50 |
| poningru | like sysv spec or something? | 03:50 |
| cjwatson | it's been like that forever on certain architectures (NOTE not all) and we've never got round to the faff of moving it | 03:50 |
| poningru | ah hmm | 03:50 |
| poningru | does deb also follow this? | 03:50 |
| cjwatson | yes, we inherited it from Debian | 03:50 |
| poningru | cool thanks mate :) | 03:50 |
| cjwatson | specifically arm, hppa, powerpc, s390, and sparc put it in /boot instead | 03:51 |
| cjwatson | it also depends somewhat on the boot loader | 03:52 |
| poningru | hmm I know grub can load from any place | 03:52 |
| poningru | oh right ppc have their own dont they | 03:52 |
| poningru | ok I see what you are saying | 03:52 |
| cjwatson | there are lots and lots of complications particularly when a separate /boot is involved | 03:53 |
| cjwatson | so moving the symlink must be done carefully | 03:53 |
| BenC | poningru: also /etc/kernel-img.conf is what tells it to do so | 03:53 |
| cjwatson | right, set up by base-installer (d-i) or the live filesystem build script (ubiquity) | 03:53 |
| poningru | hmm ic | 03:54 |
| poningru | assuming kpkg will do this for you automagically? | 03:54 |
| Keybuk | herd-1 took 1:32.6 | 03:54 |
| mdz | BenC: you have a local vmware, right? | 03:55 |
| BenC | ws6 | 03:57 |
| BenC | I'll try it and kvm | 03:57 |
| Keybuk | herd-2 took 1:59.3 | 03:58 |
| Keybuk | herd-3 took 1:22.1 | 04:00 |
| Keybuk | herd-4 took 1:29.2 | 04:03 |
| BenC | cool, I have -15.27 images rsync'd already | 04:05 |
| mdz | BenC: do you see the same problem with ws6, or no? | 04:05 |
| BenC | getting ready to test | 04:05 |
| BenC | had to copy it to the laptop | 04:05 |
| Keybuk | herd-5 took 1:28.7 | 04:05 |
| Keybuk | (all of those were using piix) | 04:07 |
| Mithrandir | and current is ? | 04:08 |
| mdz | hmm, so it switched between herd-5 and beta | 04:08 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: current is booting ;) | 04:08 |
| Mithrandir | ok | 04:08 |
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| Keybuk | mdz: we switched to ata_piix between herd-5 and beta, afaict | 04:09 |
| Keybuk | and switched back between beta and today | 04:09 |
| mdz | Keybuk: that's what I just said | 04:09 |
| mdz | BenC: so what changed in piix since beta, if anything? | 04:09 |
| BenC | mdz: nothing | 04:09 |
| mdz | weird | 04:10 |
| pkl_ | what kernel rev did Herd5 use? | 04:10 |
| BenC | 2.6.20 stable, from what I remember | 04:11 |
| BenC | wait, I might be wrong about piix changes from upstream... | 04:12 |
| Keybuk | current is 3:02.7 | 04:12 |
| Keybuk | piix clearly changed between herd-5 and current | 04:12 |
| mdz | something affecting it did, at least | 04:13 |
| BenC | nope, there isn't | 04:13 |
| BenC | piix is exactly the same as 2.6.20 except out PCI id allocation | 04:13 |
| BenC | s/out/our | 04:14 |
| Keybuk | beta (with ata_piix) booted in 1:59.5 | 04:16 |
| mdz | interesting, so still slower | 04:17 |
| mdz | ata_piix was slower than the old piix, and new piix is slower than that | 04:17 |
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| BenC_ | that was ugly | 04:18 |
| BenC_ | ws6 locked me up solid | 04:18 |
| cjwatson | me> the host? | 04:18 |
| BenC | yeah | 04:18 |
| BenC | no caps lock, no ping, nothing | 04:18 |
| BenC | let's give qemu a try | 04:19 |
| Keybuk | beta booting with piix | 04:19 |
| mdz | BenC: what about ide-cd? anything different there? | 04:19 |
| BenC | -#define VERBOSE_IDE_CD_ERRORS 1 | 04:20 |
| BenC | +#define VERBOSE_IDE_CD_ERRORS 0 | 04:20 |
| BenC | that's our only diff between upstream | 04:20 |
| BenC | and that patch has been in since dapper | 04:21 |
| BenC | or even breezy | 04:21 |
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| Keybuk | beta (with piix) booted in 1:57.1 | 04:21 |
| BenC | Keybuk: what kernel is in herd 5 and beta? | 04:21 |
| Keybuk | beta with piix is notably quite perky | 04:22 |
| BenC | ah, so piix isn't broken in beta? | 04:22 |
| Keybuk | icons appearing instantly | 04:22 |
| Keybuk | etc. | 04:22 |
| BenC | what kernel is in beta? | 04:22 |
| BenC | cat /proc/version_signature | 04:22 |
| Keybuk | (I'd put down the slightly slower boot to lack of readahead update before it, since hal/gdm were reordered) | 04:22 |
| Keybuk | 1.5x isn't "bad" ... 3m is bad | 04:22 |
| Keybuk | 2.6.20-12-generid | 04:22 |
| Keybuk | BenC: Ubuntu 2.6.20-12.20-generic | 04:23 |
| mdz | Keybuk: did you try current with ata_piix? | 04:23 |
| BenC | ok, thanks | 04:23 |
| Keybuk | BenC: would a new_id force current with ata_piix ok? | 04:23 |
| BenC | Keybuk: yes | 04:23 |
| Keybuk | it should just modprobe though, right? | 04:24 |
| mdz | BenC: how can I generate a diff from 2.6.20-14.22 to current using git? | 04:24 |
| Keybuk | (ie. claim if I just load the driver, without needing to force) | 04:24 |
| BenC | The ONLY changes from 2.6.20-12.20 and our current code in ALL of drivers/ide/ is the piix PCI id moving we've done | 04:24 |
| BenC | mdz: git-diff-tree -p Ubuntu-2.6.20-14.22..HEAD [paths] > foo.diff | 04:24 |
| BenC | if you exclude a path, you'll get everything | 04:25 |
| BenC | mdz: drivers/ide has changed since before beta | 04:25 |
| BenC | except for the PCI id's | 04:25 |
| cjwatson | has changed => has not changed? | 04:25 |
| BenC | has not | 04:25 |
| BenC | correct | 04:25 |
| Keybuk | BenC: err, doesn't seem to be forcing it | 04:26 |
| BenC | Keybuk: did piix load already? | 04:26 |
| BenC | generic.c | 5 ----- | 04:26 |
| BenC | piix.c | 19 ++++++++++++------- | 04:26 |
| BenC | that's the diffstat for beta to now in drivers/ide | 04:26 |
| Keybuk | no | 04:26 |
| BenC | the generic.c change was actually to revert it back to stock (jmicron bug that delayed beta) | 04:26 |
| BenC | err, that should have delayed beta :) | 04:27 |
| BenC | we missed it for that milestone | 04:27 |
| BenC | Keybuk: I can't see how it wouldn't | 04:27 |
| pkl_ | does anyone want me to test parallels for the slowdown? | 04:27 |
| pkl_ | I don't think parallels got the piix reversion? BenC? | 04:27 |
| BenC | pkl_: it should have | 04:28 |
| Keybuk | I tried echo -n 0000:00:07.0 > bind as well, that didn't go either | 04:28 |
| BenC | shouldn't it be "ven dev", not ven:dev? | 04:29 |
| Keybuk | that's bind | 04:29 |
| Keybuk | I did echo 8086 7111 > new_id | 04:29 |
| BenC | oh, right, I get those mixed up | 04:29 |
| Keybuk | it don't like binding :) | 04:30 |
| Keybuk | maybe I need to force libata instead? | 04:30 |
| BenC | ata_piix is the one that has the PCI probe callbacks and device table | 04:30 |
| Keybuk | ah right | 04:31 |
| Keybuk | isn't playing anyway | 04:31 |
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| Keybuk | mdz: NOT A CRISIS: http://lwn.net/Articles/229690/ | 04:33 |
| mdz | Keybuk: thanks | 04:33 |
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| BenC | I'm going to give ws6 a try again...wish me luck | 04:44 |
| Nafallo | BenC: gl | 04:44 |
| Nafallo | :-) | 04:44 |
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| BenC_ | wont be trying this again | 04:47 |
| BenC_ | maybe my 64-bit vmware doesn't like 32-bit CD's | 04:47 |
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| pkl_ | BenC: with the latest kernel (built Sun Apr 15), parallels is still using libata for hard disk. CDROM gets exception Emask blah blah | 04:48 |
| BenC_ | maybe I should disable it from using vmx too | 04:48 |
| BenC_ | pkl_: ven/dev for your chip? | 04:48 |
| pkl_ | BenC: how do I get the exact kernel version (rather than the Uname 2.6.20-15-generic). Is there a Debian package query? | 04:49 |
| kylem | pkl_, /proc/version_signature | 04:49 |
| BenC_ | pkl_: cat /proc/version_signature | 04:49 |
| pkl_ | Thanks, -15.27. I put the ven/dev earlier, but I'll paste it again | 04:50 |
| pkl_ | parallels (MBP) 00:1f.1 IDE interface [0101] Intel Corporation 82801BA IDE U100 [8086:244b] | 04:51 |
| pkl_ | subsystem: Intel corporation unknown device [8086:4541] | 04:51 |
| BenC | pkl_: Boot with break=top, at the prompt, modprobe piix | 04:53 |
| BenC | exit, and see if things continue along happily | 04:53 |
| pkl_ | OK | 04:53 |
| mdz | cjwatson: do we have any dailies from before 20070412? | 04:53 |
| mdz | any isos at all? | 04:53 |
| Keybuk | (you'll get some dmesg after the modprobe if it worked) | 04:54 |
| mdz | BenC: if this isn't a piix regression, do you have any theories? | 04:56 |
| BenC | mdz: let me check drivers/block/ | 04:56 |
| BenC | nope, nothing there either | 04:57 |
| kylem | BenC, check block/ too | 04:57 |
| BenC | ah, right | 04:57 |
| BenC | 0 files changed | 04:57 |
| pkl_ | BenC: yeah, that worked fine. Cdrom recognised okay (obviously). | 04:57 |
| mdz | drivers/block has only ps3_storage.c changed | 04:57 |
| BenC | pkl_: can you check the apparent performance? | 04:58 |
| cjwatson | mdz: not unless they got released | 04:58 |
| cjwatson | we simply don't have disk space to keep them - in fact I've been pondering keeping them for one fewer day for a while | 04:59 |
| mdz | cjwatson: are you aware of any other changes which could have affected this? toolchain? livefs build process? buildd machines? | 05:00 |
| BenC | http://people.ubuntu.com/~bcollins/since-beta.diff | 05:00 |
| BenC | that's the diff of the entire tree since beta | 05:00 |
| mdz | I've looked over that | 05:00 |
| pkl_ | OK | 05:00 |
| mdz | as has Keybuk | 05:00 |
| mdz | we didn't spot anything out of sorts | 05:00 |
| === Keybuk is reading -changes atm | ||
| mdz | except that it's enormous, of course | 05:00 |
| cjwatson | the only close-to-relevant CD build change I know of is that I dropped the hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false workaround | 05:02 |
| cjwatson | doesn't affect the live CD at all though | 05:02 |
| BenC | Keybuk, mdz: either of you tried vmware under windows host, to make sure the slow down isn't host side? | 05:04 |
| Keybuk | the host didn't change between the tests though? | 05:04 |
| Keybuk | and I've seen this on widely different hosts | 05:04 |
| BenC | ok, I'm going to have to go on the assumption that this isn't IDE/libata/DMA/piix/ata_piix related | 05:05 |
| BenC | so that leaves general performance problems | 05:05 |
| mdz | BenC: my host has been running dapper | 05:06 |
| BenC | the only way to prove otherwise is to bisect the kernel, always using piix driver, and see if that makes any difference | 05:06 |
| mdz | any other theories? anyone? | 05:06 |
| BenC | my vmware seems busted at the moment, but I guess I could get a ws5 image/lic real quick and start testing | 05:06 |
| mdz | anything goes at this point | 05:06 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: or run an old kernel in a new image. | 05:06 |
| mdz | BenC: that would be a good idea | 05:06 |
| Keybuk | what's this "ACPI Drive" stuff? | 05:07 |
| Keybuk | oh, it's in ata/ | 05:07 |
| BenC | anyone tried disabling ide acpi yet? | 05:07 |
| BenC | hold a sec... | 05:07 |
| Keybuk | is i810 relevant? | 05:08 |
| BenC | hmm...what video is it using? | 05:09 |
| BenC | have all these tests been done with livecd, or any alternate testing? | 05:09 |
| Keybuk | just livecd | 05:09 |
| BenC | well, any video it's using most likely isn't using agp/drm, so there's no changes that should affect it | 05:10 |
| Keybuk | I'm installing a beta image, to test pure CD IO performance | 05:10 |
| Keybuk | was wondering whether the video dma changes could've mucked up IO dma | 05:10 |
| BenC | ide=noacpi is something else to try | 05:10 |
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| BenC | break=top, modprobe ide-core ide=noacpi | 05:13 |
| mdz | +Starting balanced_irq | 05:13 |
| Keybuk | BenC: no particular acpi changes | 05:13 |
| mdz | BenC: what's that? | 05:13 |
| BenC | probably has to be done that way | 05:13 |
| BenC | mdz: acpi is the only notable things in our drivers/ide/ that is not in upstream | 05:13 |
| mdz | BenC: what's balanced_irq? | 05:13 |
| BenC | mdz: it balances irq's on SMP systems | 05:14 |
| BenC | so other than just the first CPU can handle IRQ's | 05:14 |
| BenC | there was some updates to it to handle multi-core/shared cache a lot better | 05:14 |
| BenC | but I thought it was in universe | 05:15 |
| kylem | it is | 05:15 |
| kylem | i never put it in a MIR for it. | 05:15 |
| kylem | (since it was post-beta) | 05:16 |
| mdz | so it does nothing without the userspace bits installed? | 05:16 |
| BenC | anyone have a quick download for ws5 so I don't have to do this email song and dance? | 05:16 |
| mdz | (apart from mentioning itself in dmesg) | 05:16 |
| mdz | BenC: I have a copy here | 05:17 |
| mdz | can upload it to the DC quick | 05:17 |
| BenC | mdz: ah, balanced IRQ in kernel, it does some trivial balancing, but nothing major | 05:17 |
| mdz | BenC: ~mdz on chinstrap | 05:18 |
| mdz | ETA 5 seconds | 05:18 |
| BenC | mdz: thanks | 05:18 |
| BenC | need coffee and a smoke, and few minutes to ponder things at this point | 05:20 |
| BenC | afk for about 10 | 05:20 |
| Keybuk | hmm, beta is STILL installing! | 05:29 |
| BenC | one thing I didn't check is changes in pci quirks that might affect piix | 05:31 |
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| mdz | I can't get anything approaching reproducible numbers by timing raw /dev/hdc or /dev/scd0 reads in vmware | 05:32 |
| mdz | so far our only test cases are booting the live CD and installing in ubiquity | 05:32 |
| BenC | hmm, changes in combined mode | 05:32 |
| BenC | but that affects only Intel SATA I think | 05:33 |
| BenC | splits the pata drive off the combined sata/pata chipset into a separate func | 05:33 |
| BenC | then there's MSI, and toshiba/sis quirks | 05:34 |
| BenC | let me do this ws5 install and try to reproduce so I'm at least working with you guys | 05:35 |
| BenC | mdz: do you have fixed tarballs for the module source for vmware? | 05:37 |
| BenC | or do these build ok? | 05:38 |
| mdz | BenC: not on me | 05:38 |
| mdz | they wo'nt build, the fix is all over google though | 05:38 |
| BenC | I forget the name of the update file, do you remember it? | 05:39 |
| BenC | got it | 05:40 |
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| Keybuk | whatever the line that fails, comment it out | 05:45 |
| BenC | I can't get the key I pulled from wiki to work | 05:45 |
| Keybuk | did you pull it from the new page, instead of the old? | 05:46 |
| Keybuk | it was under Montreal/VMware or something | 05:46 |
| BenC | yes, the ones marked March 2007 + 180 | 05:46 |
| BenC | one of the keys didn't work, another one did | 05:46 |
| BenC | I'll not it on the wiki | 05:46 |
| BenC | ffs, the any-any gave me bad modules versions | 05:48 |
| mdz | BenC: is this the same machinew here you have ws6 installed? maybe they can't coexist peacefully | 05:55 |
| BenC | I uninstalled ws6 first | 05:55 |
| BenC | any-any was too old for this ws5 | 05:55 |
| BenC | so fixing the module source manually | 05:55 |
| Keybuk | ok, beta is STILL copying off the damned CD | 05:56 |
| Keybuk | (that's with ata_piix ...) | 05:58 |
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| kylem | Keybuk, can you disconnect a fucked cdrom by booting the installed image in vmware and trying to do heavy i/o off another cd? | 06:00 |
| kylem | er, discount, not disconnect | 06:01 |
| Keybuk | how do you mean? | 06:01 |
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| Keybuk | we can't get useful timings from the real cd | 06:01 |
| BenC_ | dear vmware, please stop crashing my system | 06:01 |
| Keybuk | since vmware's clock invents numbers | 06:01 |
| Keybuk | and a stopwatch gives different answers too | 06:01 |
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| BenC | anyone tried switching the cd to SCSI instead of IDE to see if that makes a difference? | 06:07 |
| Keybuk | not yet, am still waiting for this one to install | 06:07 |
| Keybuk | at which point I can have the VM back for a bit <g> | 06:07 |
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| BenC | I'm going to install vmware on this other machine to see if I can get it to work | 06:08 |
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| cjwatson | has bug 106864 come up on this channel already? | 06:15 |
| cjwatson | it's unfortunately not too clear what's going on, only fragments of error messages | 06:15 |
| cjwatson | the comments from Arjan Kon are probably a different bug, but have more detailed results | 06:16 |
| kylem | looks like he fell to initramfs. | 06:16 |
| BenC | looks like the exceptions are ata_piix related | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | "oops, I tripped, and fell, and landed initramfs" | 06:17 |
| BenC | same as we saw in vmware | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | yeah they are the same | 06:17 |
| cjwatson | exceptions> Arjan's, right? | 06:17 |
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| Keybuk | so, err | 06:21 |
| BenC | cjwatson: yeah | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | how do you get vmware to boot off an emulated scsi cd-rom? | 06:21 |
| BenC | Keybuk: the CDROM pref page for the VM should let you select IDE or SCSI | 06:21 |
| BenC | it did for me at least | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | yes | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | but how do you boot off it? | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | the bios doesn't seem to support that | 06:22 |
| BenC | uh, it should I guess | 06:22 |
| Keybuk | why? | 06:23 |
| Keybuk | you normally can't boot off scsi cdroms | 06:23 |
| Keybuk | not if there's a boot image on a scsi drive with a lower id | 06:23 |
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| BenC | Keybuk: doesn't vmware have a Boot menu in bios? | 06:28 |
| Keybuk | yes | 06:29 |
| Keybuk | PC BIOS can only boot off things like IDE, remember | 06:29 |
| Keybuk | so "SCSI" tends to be a boot option :p | 06:30 |
| Keybuk | (booting current with piix and ide=noacpi didn't help) | 06:30 |
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| BenC | if the SCSI controller does the right BIOS setup, then the BIOS shouldn't care that it's a SCSI drive | 06:32 |
| BenC | s/drive/cdrom/ | 06:33 |
| pkl_ | BenC: I got the requested performance figures for LiveCD booting for a number of daily build vintages. No apparent slowdown in performance in Parallels from 20070301 builds to latest 20070415 build off hard-disk and real CD. | 06:44 |
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| pkl_ | tested 20070301, 20070313, 20070411 and 20070415 :) | 06:45 |
| mvo | could some please check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/103050 ? if its valid, it looks rather serious | 06:45 |
| BenC | mvo: what is module wfb? | 06:46 |
| mvo | BenC: I have no idea, but it seems that the report claims that "nvidia-glx-config enable" adds it and its part of the nvidia binary package | 06:47 |
| mjg59 | It's an X module, not a kernel one | 06:47 |
| mjg59 | Is it in the package? If not, is it in the source package? | 06:48 |
| BenC | looks legit, so we may need to add it as part of the nvidia-glx-new package | 06:48 |
| BenC | mvo: I've taken it on | 06:49 |
| mvo | BenC: thats great, thanks a lot! | 06:49 |
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| BenC | Keybuk: weird that they let you make it a SCSI device and don't let you boot from it | 06:59 |
| BenC | so what's our guage for this bug? | 07:00 |
| BenC | I just got to desktop after power on in less than 2 minutes with current livecd | 07:00 |
| pkl_ | Parallels takes 1:01 (iso on hard disk), no performance problems. | 07:02 |
| pkl_ | with latest livecd | 07:03 |
| Keybuk | BenC: try and install | 07:04 |
| BenC | starting an install for a more thorough test | 07:04 |
| BenC | system is using piix right now | 07:05 |
| BenC | note I'm on a 64-bit intel core2duo install, 32-bit vmware ws5 | 07:05 |
| BenC | oh wait, no, it's a 64-bit Turion x2 | 07:05 |
| Keybuk | I've seen the same on a dual 64-bit athlon x2, sata_nv etc. | 07:07 |
| Keybuk | BenC: what can we do to help you debug this | 07:10 |
| Keybuk | since performance in vmware is our prime feature for Ubuntu Server 7.04, this is of showstopper grade | 07:10 |
| BenC | ahci on the host | 07:11 |
| Keybuk | ? | 07:11 |
| BenC | my host for vmware is using achi, was just checking that | 07:11 |
| BenC | guest is using piix | 07:11 |
| pkl_ | BenC: vmware running on what? | 07:12 |
| BenC | Keybuk: At the moment, I'm unable to reproduce any real performance issue | 07:12 |
| Keybuk | both mdz and I are | 07:12 |
| BenC | Turion x2 | 07:12 |
| Keybuk | it took well over an hour to install here | 07:12 |
| BenC | Keybuk: what's your host you've been testing with now? | 07:12 |
| Keybuk | ICH7 | 07:12 |
| Keybuk | intel core duo | 07:13 |
| BenC | piix or ata_piix for disk? | 07:13 |
| BenC | I assume the latter | 07:13 |
| Keybuk | ata_piix | 07:13 |
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| BenC | is a 1 hour install really that bad for a virtualized install? | 07:13 |
| mvo | here is another nvidia-glx releated error: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/106518/ (not sure we can/should do anything, seems to be caused by the "envy" tool | 07:13 |
| Keybuk | BenC: yes, given we've specifically press released that we have improved performance in vmware! :) | 07:14 |
| BenC | mvo: Nope, reject that one, we can't do anything about people clashing local installs with package installs | 07:14 |
| mvo | BenC: will do, thanks | 07:14 |
| BenC | Keybuk: how long does edgy take to install? | 07:14 |
| Keybuk | BenC: 10-15 mins max | 07:14 |
| pkl_ | BenC: you said vmware is prime feature for Ubuntu Server 7.04... But, what vmhost host oses are you concerned with. I was going to try vmware under MacOS X (in Beta), but if vmwarte host on Linus all you're concerned with, I won't bother. | 07:14 |
| BenC | I don't recall ever getting an install that fast | 07:14 |
| Keybuk | feisty took 60-90 mins (I got so bored I did other things) | 07:15 |
| Keybuk | BenC: I can appreciate that you can't replicate the problem | 07:15 |
| BenC | pkl_: we are promoting our guest speed, so any host should be good | 07:15 |
| Keybuk | so what can mdz do to help you understand it? | 07:15 |
| Keybuk | mdz and I | 07:15 |
| BenC | Keybuk: I can't replicate your 10-15 minutes installs with edgy is the problem :) | 07:15 |
| Keybuk | BenC: how long do they take for you? | 07:15 |
| BenC | Keybuk: and besides, our "speed feature" is only in relation to ws6 and related products where paravirt is enabled | 07:16 |
| BenC | Keybuk: about an hour | 07:16 |
| Keybuk | the press release doesn't say that :-/ | 07:17 |
| BenC | the press release is quite lacking in information that I've provided then | 07:17 |
| Keybuk | what kind of VM did you use? | 07:17 |
| BenC | "Improved performance with as a guest under VMware using paravirtual ops" | 07:17 |
| BenC | Keybuk: I've been using ws6 for quite some time, in beta | 07:18 |
| Keybuk | this is 256MB / 8.0GB ide / CD-ROM bound to file / 2 processors | 07:18 |
| BenC | haven't used ws5 in awhile...I think I have edgy around here I can test on now that I have a ws5 install | 07:18 |
| Keybuk | didn't you just say you tested on ws5? | 07:18 |
| BenC | Keybuk: I did all default, so 256Meg, 8G, CDROM to file, single CPU | 07:18 |
| BenC | Keybuk: I just tested a feisty RC on ws5 | 07:19 |
| Keybuk | and it booted in around 1m30? | 07:19 |
| Keybuk | with no noticeable lag drawing the desktop? | 07:19 |
| BenC | yep | 07:19 |
| Keybuk | weird | 07:20 |
| BenC | the install is 15 minutes in, and at around 47% copying files | 07:20 |
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| BenC | ruh roh | 07:21 |
| BenC | power may be going | 07:21 |
| BenC | if I drop, it may be 20-30 minutes before I get gen up and running | 07:22 |
| BenC | Keybuk: let's get some info out here to compare why things are slow for you and mdz and not for me | 07:22 |
| BenC | mdz is running on a dapper host | 07:23 |
| BenC | mdz: what sort of machine is it? | 07:23 |
| BenC | video, hd, etc. | 07:23 |
| BenC | Keybuk: one thing I didn't do on my VM was setup networking...so that's a datapoint right now | 07:23 |
| BenC | Keybuk: have you tried single cpu yet? | 07:23 |
| BenC | for guest | 07:24 |
| Keybuk | doing a dapper install now | 07:24 |
| Keybuk | to test | 07:24 |
| Keybuk | yeah, single cpu was same problem | 07:24 |
| Keybuk | I tried double to see whether that fixed it | 07:24 |
| cjwatson | I'll give you a third data point at some point after dinner | 07:25 |
| BenC | is nvidia-glx-new on the CDs? | 07:26 |
| mdz | BenC: I've only been able to test on this dapper amd64 box | 07:29 |
| BenC | mdz: is it running 32-bit or 64-bit on host? | 07:29 |
| mdz | BenC: did you compare with beta, or with ws6? | 07:29 |
| BenC | and are you testing 32-bit or 64-bit guest? | 07:29 |
| Keybuk | 32-bit guest on 32-bit host for me | 07:29 |
| mdz | BenC: it's running a 32-bit kernel | 07:29 |
| mdz | 32-bit guest | 07:30 |
| Keybuk | (same problem seen with 32-bit guest on 64-bit host) | 07:30 |
| mdz | just happens to be a 64-bit cpu | 07:30 |
| BenC | I have 64-bit host, but 32-bit ws5 and 32-bit guest | 07:30 |
| BenC | so it _should_ be the same | 07:30 |
| Keybuk | I assume my 64-bit host was a 64-bit ws5, since it can host 64-bit images | 07:30 |
| BenC | mdz: can you really get 10-15 minute installs of edgy? | 07:30 |
| mdz | BenC: and were you able to measure a difference from beta->rc? | 07:30 |
| Keybuk | (how does one tell?) | 07:30 |
| Keybuk | BenC: I'm half way through a dapper install, 9m gone, 9 to go | 07:31 |
| mdz | BenC: I can do one right now and time it... | 07:31 |
| BenC | Keybuk: I think guest support is only limited by kernel/vmmon, so it might still be a 32-bit vmware | 07:32 |
| BenC | Keybuk: file /usr/local/bin/vmware | 07:32 |
| BenC | see if it's elf 32 or 64 | 07:32 |
| BenC | let me get an edgy iso to see if I can get this super speed install | 07:33 |
| Keybuk | 54%, 6:08 remaining | 07:33 |
| mdz | (edgy boots the live CD in 1:07 fwiw) | 07:33 |
| Keybuk | /opt/vmware/vmware: Bourne shell script text executable | 07:34 |
| Keybuk | <> | 07:34 |
| BenC | can you guys check your bogomips between edgy and feisty? | 07:34 |
| Keybuk | /opt/vmware/lib/bin/vmware: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 07:34 |
| Keybuk | ok | 07:34 |
| Keybuk | BenC: inside vmware or outside? | 07:34 |
| BenC | Keybuk: ok, same as me then | 07:34 |
| BenC | Keybuk: in vmware | 07:34 |
| Keybuk | that's in dmesg right? | 07:34 |
| BenC | or /proc/cpuinfo | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | [ 18.818982] Calibrating delay using timer specific routine.. 2403.75 BogoMIPS (lpj=4807513) | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | ^ cupprent | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | [ 49.406032] Calibrating delay using timer specific routine.. 2380.15 BogoMIPS (lpj=4760307) | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | ^ beta | 07:35 |
| mdz | ubuntu@ubuntu:/mnt/var/log/installer$ sudo grep ubiquity syslog |head -1 | 07:35 |
| mdz | Apr 12 13:11:25 ubuntu ubiquity[6131] : Ubiquity 1.2.5 | 07:35 |
| mdz | ubuntu@ubuntu:/mnt/var/log/installer$ sudo grep ubiquity syslog |tail -1 | 07:35 |
| mdz | Apr 12 13:27:11 ubuntu ubiquity: Purging configuration files for libglibmm-2.4-1c2a ... | 07:35 |
| mdz | ^^^ 6.10 final | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | [17179573.224000] Calibrating delay using timer specific routine.. 2406.73 BogoM | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | IPS (lpj=4813470) | 07:35 |
| Keybuk | ^ dapper | 07:35 |
| mdz | ubuntu@ubuntu-desktop:/var/log/installer$ sudo grep ubiquity syslog |head -1 | 07:37 |
| mdz | Apr 16 09:46:25 ubuntu ubiquity[8750] : Ubiquity 1.4.11 | 07:37 |
| mdz | ubuntu@ubuntu-desktop:/var/log/installer$ sudo grep ubiquity syslog |grep glibmmApr 16 10:11:20 ubuntu ubiquity: Removing libglibmm-2.4-1c2a ... | 07:37 |
| mdz | ^^ current feisty | 07:37 |
| mdz | so 16 minutes vs. 25 | 07:38 |
| BenC | mdz: so feisty took 25 minutes to install and edgy took 16? | 07:39 |
| mjg59 | What's the difference on real hardware? | 07:39 |
| mdz | unknown, I just had those numbers around | 07:40 |
| mdz | the real difference I saw was between the 11th and 12th | 07:40 |
| mdz | both in vmware | 07:40 |
| mdz | unfortunately we've deleted those isos | 07:40 |
| BenC | mdz: was that perhaps when we went from piix to ata_piix? | 07:41 |
| mdz | BenC: yes | 07:42 |
| mdz | er | 07:42 |
| mdz | no, the other way around | 07:42 |
| mdz | from ata_piix to piix | 07:42 |
| Keybuk | dapper install finished: 21 mins | 07:42 |
| BenC | how could you notice a problem when ata_piix wasn't even working for you? | 07:42 |
| BenC | s/problem/slow down/ | 07:43 |
| BenC | wasn't working for atapi at least | 07:43 |
| BenC | or did you notice a general problem in an existing system when we did the switch | 07:43 |
| BenC | existing VM that is | 07:43 |
| BenC | Ok, edgy iso booted in about the same amount of time for me | 07:46 |
| BenC | starting the install | 07:47 |
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| BenC | wow, I think my guest clock just went backwards | 07:48 |
| Keybuk | they do that | 07:48 |
| BenC | I could have sworn I saw it go 1:48 to 1:47, then to 1:48 again | 07:48 |
| Keybuk | I like mdz's demo that sleep 10 sleeps for an amount of time that will never equal 10s | 07:48 |
| BenC | I'll watch the host clock | 07:48 |
| Keybuk | a watched clock never boils | 07:48 |
| BenC | hopefully, neither does an unwatched one :) | 07:49 |
| mdz | BenC: the clock is very funny, I don't really trust those numbers in syslog | 07:51 |
| mdz | BenC: ata_piix was functional for me, it just spewed a huge volume of scary errors while it worked | 07:51 |
| BenC | mdz: even for atapi it worked? | 07:51 |
| mdz | I'm open to the idea that Keybuk and I are both hallucinating | 07:51 |
| mdz | BenC: yes, I was only using it for atapi | 07:51 |
| BenC | hmm | 07:52 |
| mdz | I use the standard default ubuntu config in vmware, which is a SCSI (LSI) HDD and ATAPI (PIIX) CD-ROM | 07:52 |
| mdz | but while I'm open to the idea, someone needs to independently demonstrate that we're crazy | 07:52 |
| mdz | because so far our results are consistent with each other | 07:52 |
| BenC | my boot times for edgy/feisty under vmware are only off by a few seconds...they are virtually (heh) the same | 07:53 |
| BenC | the install times I'm checking now | 07:53 |
| Keybuk | which feisty? | 07:53 |
| mdz | BenC: booting the CD or booting from HDD? | 07:53 |
| BenC | latest ISO, 15.27 kernel | 07:53 |
| BenC | mdz: booting the live CDs | 07:54 |
| mdz | BenC: ok, that's very interesting | 07:54 |
| Keybuk | so, I'm trying a random test | 07:54 |
| BenC | this clock skew on vmware really worries me | 07:54 |
| Keybuk | booting different livecds and moving 8GB from a SCSI disk to an IDE disk and back again | 07:55 |
| BenC | it's already 6 minutes ahead of my host | 07:55 |
| mdz | BenC: I see that too, though I think I probably always have | 07:55 |
| BenC | mdz: I'd say the syslog times you pasted are probably bad data points for this | 07:55 |
| Keybuk | maybe vmware is going so fast, it's slowing down time | 07:56 |
| Keybuk | (and thus installs) | 07:56 |
| BenC | mdz: any chance you can do installs and check your host times for comparison? | 07:56 |
| mdz | BenC: I agree | 07:56 |
| mdz | but Scott's are wall clock timings | 07:56 |
| cjwatson | I'm going to do a test in a second | 07:56 |
| Keybuk | ie. I timed it with a stopwatch | 07:56 |
| cjwatson | however this is on a Debian host as I've never migrated that vmware install | 07:56 |
| mdz | cjwatson: my host has been neutral throughout; I don't suspect any problem on the host side | 07:57 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: from pressing enter at the CD boot prompt, or from vmware boot? | 07:57 |
| BenC | cjwatson: hard to muddy the water any more than it is :) | 07:57 |
| BenC | cjwatson: I did CD prompt to icons showing up | 07:57 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: from pressing ^D at break=top after manually loading piix and making sure it was bound | 07:57 |
| cjwatson | FWIW, I'm on 5.5.1 | 07:57 |
| BenC | Keybuk: on -15.27 kernel feisty, piix most certainly is bound | 07:57 |
| BenC | for beta iso's, you need the break | 07:58 |
| BenC | for installs, I'm timing from the last screen in ubiquity to the "restart" dialog | 07:59 |
| === BenC watches vmware go back 9 minutes in time | ||
| mdz | 5.5.2 build-29772 here | 08:00 |
| kylem | amd64? | 08:00 |
| mdz | and BenC's using my tarball | 08:00 |
| mdz | kylem: amd64 running 32-bit kernel/userland/guest | 08:00 |
| cjwatson | feisty boots in 1:28 | 08:00 |
| kylem | sorry, i should say "athlon64" | 08:00 |
| kylem | i mean, is it an amd chip | 08:00 |
| mdz | yes | 08:00 |
| BenC | see, colin's getting what I'm getting for feisty | 08:00 |
| kylem | dual core amd has unsynched tsc. | 08:01 |
| mdz | model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ | 08:01 |
| cjwatson | will take a few minutes for edgy to copy across from my server | 08:01 |
| kylem | so if vmware is using the tsc to get the clock, it will flip back and forth and lose (or gain) ticks | 08:01 |
| BenC | mine is turion x2 as well | 08:01 |
| Keybuk | my vmware clock always runs slower than my host clock | 08:01 |
| cjwatson | mine is single-core Athlon64 | 08:02 |
| Keybuk | and it's a dual-core Intel | 08:02 |
| cjwatson | fairly old, summer 2004 I think | 08:02 |
| BenC | Keybuk: weird, on this box, mine always runs faster :) | 08:02 |
| BenC | so Keybuk is the only one testing on an Intel host right now | 08:02 |
| kylem | hmm | 08:02 |
| BenC | but we have UP and SMP covered | 08:02 |
| BenC | ok, wall clock time on my edgy install was 15 minutes | 08:03 |
| cjwatson | that's from pressing Install button on summary page to final dialog appearing? | 08:04 |
| pkl_ | Ubuntu in Parallels also runs slower than the host clock. | 08:04 |
| === Keybuk is still waiting for the feisty CD to book | ||
| Keybuk | boot too | 08:05 |
| BenC | cjwatson: yes | 08:05 |
| cjwatson | (feisty took a weirdly large amount of time to get to usplash, btw - maybe 20 secs) | 08:05 |
| pkl_ | which is Intel obviously. | 08:05 |
| cjwatson | edgy boots in 0:52 | 08:05 |
| cjwatson | unfortunately I don't have feisty beta handy - will take c. 2 hours to download | 08:06 |
| BenC | so noticeably slower, but possibly due to more services? | 08:06 |
| cjwatson | kicked off a download | 08:06 |
| cjwatson | I think most of that was the pre-usplash delay | 08:06 |
| BenC | I need to do these boot tests on a real machine between edgy/feisty | 08:07 |
| cjwatson | which could easily have been something kooky in initramfs | 08:07 |
| BenC | unless someone else wants to do it | 08:07 |
| cjwatson | why don't I kill the beta download to avoid stray i/o and do install time tests | 08:07 |
| mdz | there's really no need to mess with edgy | 08:07 |
| mdz | the difference can be seen from beta->rc | 08:07 |
| BenC | I don't have beta handy | 08:07 |
| cjwatson | yes, but I have edgy here and not beta | 08:07 |
| BenC | but I guess I can download it | 08:07 |
| cjwatson | the need to mess with edgy is getting results now instead of in two hours | 08:08 |
| mdz | but the results may not be particularly meaningful | 08:08 |
| cjwatson | absence of regressions from edgy is meaningful enough to me | 08:08 |
| Keybuk | mdz: ish, beta does take a long time to install for me :-/ | 08:08 |
| Keybuk | edgy is worth testing | 08:08 |
| Keybuk | and is equally worthwhile | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | if we can get a definitely reproducible useful test, we can track forward | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | more than "boot time"/"install time" | 08:09 |
| cjwatson | anyone tried bonnie++ or similar? | 08:09 |
| cjwatson | pre-usplash delay> oh, I bet that's console-setup | 08:10 |
| Keybuk | BenC: interesting timing here | 08:11 |
| cjwatson | though it should be working with pregenerated files | 08:11 |
| Keybuk | hdparm -t on an IDE disk in vmware | 08:11 |
| Keybuk | dapper: 1800 MB/s | 08:11 |
| cjwatson | so I don't quite get why it would be so slow | 08:11 |
| Keybuk | current: 750 MB/s | 08:11 |
| BenC | oooh | 08:11 |
| BenC | Keybuk: is it reproducible many times? | 08:12 |
| Keybuk | yes | 08:12 |
| Keybuk | the numbers are pretty consistent | 08:12 |
| BenC | worry about the guest clock skewing things | 08:12 |
| mjg59 | hdparm -T is probably more realistic | 08:12 |
| Keybuk | yeah, given the guest clock skew, that's unconfirmed | 08:12 |
| cjwatson | -T doesn't measure throughput to the disk though? | 08:13 |
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| Keybuk | mjg59: 75 MB/s vs. 35 MB/s | 08:13 |
| cjwatson | it's a more realistic system test, but the disk controller driver is the suspect component here ... | 08:13 |
| mdz | cjwatson: it's been difficult to do benchmarking inside the VM because the clock is fucked | 08:13 |
| BenC | there's gotta be a way to do this | 08:14 |
| cjwatson | something that took a stopwatch-measurable amount of time to do each test would be good enough | 08:14 |
| BenC | vmware was doing micro and macro benchmarks reliably | 08:14 |
| mjg59 | cjwatson: -t is also testing the vm system | 08:14 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: for i in `seq 20`; do dd if=/dev/hda; done and using a stopwatch should work. | 08:14 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: "performance problems in vmware" could also be the vm system, though I doubt it | 08:14 |
| cjwatson | -T does buffer cache which doesn't seem especially useful or relevant | 08:15 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: dd to where? | 08:15 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: /dev/null? | 08:15 |
| cjwatson | in particular it explicitly says "without disk access" | 08:15 |
| mjg59 | Oh, sorry - I had those the wrong way round | 08:15 |
| mjg59 | Though the timings would seem more consistent with them being the way I thought... | 08:16 |
| cjwatson | mm | 08:16 |
| mdz | cjwatson: I believe that means 'without physical disk reads' not 'without communicating with the disk' | 08:17 |
| mdz | oh, I'm wrong | 08:17 |
| cjwatson | mdz: in context, it's talking about buffer cache and says it deliberately avoids measuring disk performance | 08:17 |
| mdz | "This displays the speed of reading directly from the Linux buffer cache without disk access." | 08:17 |
| cjwatson | comparison from my laptop: | 08:18 |
| cjwatson | Timing cached reads: 814 MB in 2.00 seconds = 406.48 MB/sec | 08:18 |
| cjwatson | Timing buffered disk reads: 84 MB in 3.01 seconds = 27.89 MB/sec | 08:18 |
| kylem | that would make sense. | 08:18 |
| cjwatson | edgy installs in <9:47 (I wasn't looking at the screen and that's when I noticed; it wasn't much less) | 08:19 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: 3:41.1 in feisty current | 08:19 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: ugh. | 08:19 |
| Keybuk | oddly enough, vmware's clock matches stopwatch there | 08:19 |
| Mithrandir | hmm | 08:19 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: how big a disk? | 08:19 |
| Keybuk | 8GB | 08:20 |
| cjwatson | oh, and fragmented or solid? | 08:20 |
| cjwatson | (whatever you call the non-fragmented thing - single-file?) | 08:20 |
| Keybuk | 2GB chunks | 08:20 |
| Mithrandir | preallocated? | 08:20 |
| cjwatson | yeah | 08:20 |
| Keybuk | not actually allocated though | 08:20 |
| Keybuk | since the disk is "empty" | 08:20 |
| Keybuk | so this shouldn't touch the host disk hardly at all | 08:20 |
| cjwatson | I have limited disk space so I always use chunks | 08:20 |
| BenC | feisty install is definitely noticeably slow for me than edgy | 08:24 |
| BenC | 12 minutes into it, and it's only at 50%, still copying files | 08:24 |
| cjwatson | will tell you my result there in a moment | 08:24 |
| BenC | guess I better get beta | 08:24 |
| BenC | mdz, Keybuk: so beta was ok, and current is slow, that's your test case right now? | 08:25 |
| Keybuk | BenC: I have my doubts about beta | 08:25 |
| Keybuk | current is definitely slow | 08:25 |
| BenC | ah, right, beta was still slow for you | 08:25 |
| mdz | I don't get consistent results from hdparm at all, which is unsurprising to me given the clock skew | 08:25 |
| mdz | BenC: beta is better here | 08:26 |
| Keybuk | wall time on dapper for the dd test, 02:39 | 08:26 |
| mdz | I installed dailies in vmware all last week, and noticed the difference on thursday | 08:26 |
| mdz | but I am at a loss to provide particularly believable numbers | 08:26 |
| BenC | mdz: do you have the same dailies around? | 08:27 |
| mdz | BenC: nope | 08:27 |
| mdz | they were deleted over the weekend, while I was dealing with my hosed laptop | 08:27 |
| BenC | mdz: given a kernel image just before the ata_piix/piix switch, can you regen an ISO from current using that image? | 08:28 |
| mdz | BenC: that should be possible, yes | 08:28 |
| kylem | http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/resources/238 | 08:28 |
| BenC | 14.22 was just before the switch | 08:29 |
| BenC | damnit, the .deb's are gone from lp | 08:31 |
| cjwatson | err, shouldn't be | 08:31 |
| kylem | for the broken one they were nuked, no? | 08:31 |
| cjwatson | I'll find them | 08:31 |
| cjwatson | not from the librarian, no | 08:31 |
| kylem | ah. | 08:31 |
| cjwatson | they're just hard to find | 08:31 |
| cjwatson | you have to go to the "builds of" portlet | 08:32 |
| cjwatson | http://librarian.launchpad.net/7122345/linux-image-2.6.20-14-generic_2.6.20-14.22_i386.deb | 08:32 |
| BenC | great, ws5 killed my other box now | 08:32 |
| BenC | flashing led's | 08:32 |
| cjwatson | feisty installs in 8:44 (I think, pressed the wrong stopwatch button) | 08:32 |
| BenC | a lot faster than mine | 08:33 |
| cjwatson | not willing to say it's definitely faster than edgy, but given the lack of attention in my experiment it's definitely within experimental error | 08:33 |
| cjwatson | I'll try the dd test with fresh disks in a moment | 08:34 |
| mdz | BenC: they still seem to be there to me: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/315769 | 08:35 |
| cjwatson | I think Ben was following the links from linux-source-2.6.20/2.6.20-14.22 to the individual binaries rather than to the builds | 08:36 |
| BenC | yeah | 08:36 |
| === OldKid [n=oldi@fresno121.webperoni.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel | ||
| BenC | anyone have the piix dev id for vmware handy? | 08:39 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: how many dd iterations was your 3:41.1 timing above? | 08:39 |
| cjwatson | BenC: 8086:7111 | 08:39 |
| BenC | thanks | 08:39 |
| kylem | 06:31 < mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/lspci-vmware | 08:40 |
| kylem | BenC, you'll want subvendor/subdevice too if you're going to blacklist it from one of the modules. | 08:40 |
| BenC | force probing ata_piix with new_id | 08:41 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: just one | 08:41 |
| BenC | see if the install is any faster | 08:41 |
| cjwatson | about 2:50 for the dd test, 50.6 MB/s according to vmware's clock which seems more or less right | 08:43 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: did you try dd from the cdrom? | 08:43 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: that's what I'm trying now | 08:44 |
| Keybuk | still waiting for current to boot | 08:44 |
| cjwatson | 'cos my timing is not all that far off yours | 08:45 |
| heno | FWIW, I just did a virtualbox install here that too 11 minutes total, the CD-HD copying phase was just 7 minutes; will do Edgy next | 08:45 |
| cjwatson | feisty dd if=/dev/hdc of=/dev/null: 33 seconds | 08:46 |
| Keybuk | 1430344+0 records in | 08:46 |
| Keybuk | 1430344+0 records out | 08:46 |
| Keybuk | 732336128 bytes (732 MB) copied, 115.963 seconds, 6.3 MB/s | 08:46 |
| Keybuk | (hdc -> null on dapper, 5x that one's pretty representative, there wasn't much deviation) | 08:47 |
| cjwatson | quite a lot slower | 08:47 |
| cjwatson | oh, dapper? hmm | 08:47 |
| cjwatson | unused to your machine just sucking compared to mine ;-) | 08:47 |
| Keybuk | it's only a laptop | 08:47 |
| cjwatson | ah | 08:47 |
| cjwatson | thought it was the 10-second booter or whatever it was | 08:48 |
| Keybuk | nah, that's at home | 08:48 |
| Keybuk | far too heavy to lug on skates | 08:48 |
| cjwatson | edgy dd hda: 1:23, twice as fast as feisty | 08:50 |
| mdz | cjwatson: wallclock time? | 08:50 |
| cjwatson | yes | 08:50 |
| === BenC kicks new_id | ||
| Keybuk | I must admit, that my wall clock and my vmware clock match | 08:50 |
| cjwatson | mine too | 08:50 |
| mdz | Keybuk: you're uniprocessor | 08:50 |
| Keybuk | I've worked out why vmware's clock is different, it ran ntpdate ;) | 08:50 |
| mdz | both of you are | 08:50 |
| Keybuk | mdz: dual core | 08:50 |
| Keybuk | just intel not amd | 08:50 |
| cjwatson | edgy dd hdc: 28 seconds, smidge faster than feisty | 08:51 |
| cjwatson | that explains why install tests showed no difference, the CD hasn't changed much | 08:51 |
| Keybuk | ok, that was interesting | 08:51 |
| Keybuk | let me just repeat that test before I say about it | 08:51 |
| cjwatson | mm, I'm going to repeat my dd tests too | 08:52 |
| === cjwatson stops bothering with the stopwatch | ||
| Keybuk | I just stopped bothering | 08:54 |
| Keybuk | and then noticed something | 08:54 |
| Keybuk | in feisty my wall clocks *are* different to vmware's clocks | 08:54 |
| Keybuk | in dapper they matched | 08:55 |
| BenC | bah, ata_piix doesn't support hotplug of controllers | 08:55 |
| BenC | wish there was a way to atomically add new_id during module init | 08:55 |
| === BenC considers binary patch the driver in initramfs | ||
| Keybuk | hmm, dd giving comparable results for me too | 08:57 |
| heno | complete Edgy install on virtualbox: ~7.5 minutes, the CD->HC copying phase less than 5 minutes. So Edgy is significantly faster than Feisty on virtualbox too | 09:00 |
| BenC | heno: what's the time for feisty on vbox? | 09:01 |
| dholbach | BenC: <heno> FWIW, I just did a virtualbox install here that too 11 minutes total, the CD-HD copying phase was just 7 minutes; will do Edgy next | 09:01 |
| BenC | those times can be accounted for by things other than a kernel bug, I think | 09:01 |
| BenC | interesting, but still inconclusive | 09:02 |
| mdz | heno: which driver is used for the CD-ROM there? | 09:02 |
| BenC | heno: thanks for the testing | 09:02 |
| BenC | IIRC, it's piix as well, probably same 8086:7111 | 09:02 |
| BenC | is it at all possible that these times could be squashfs related? | 09:03 |
| heno | mdz: can you tell me how to find out? | 09:03 |
| mdz | heno: lspci -vvnn | grep IDE | 09:03 |
| mdz | BenC: the squashfs update was much earlier, no? | 09:04 |
| mdz | pkl_: any reasonable potential for a performance regression there? | 09:04 |
| === Keybuk is trying if=/dev/hdc of=/dev/sda1 | ||
| pkl_ | the squashfs update was checked in on 16th Mar. It doesn't appear in the debian/changelog and so I don't know what daily first had it. | 09:06 |
| BenC | how can it not show in the changelog? | 09:07 |
| BenC | it's automated :) | 09:07 |
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| BenC | that's odd | 09:09 |
| BenC | if we go by dates, then it had to be either in -12.19 or -12.20 | 09:09 |
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| Mithrandir | you don't have it tagged in git? | 09:10 |
| cjwatson | (speaking of which, can we lose the GIT-SHA lines from debian/changelog in gutsy? anyone who needs them can get them from git log) | 09:10 |
| mdz | BenC: it's not there | 09:10 |
| mdz | cjwatson++ | 09:10 |
| cjwatson | commit 01c7ecb34704df7feae2532006169786642f8fdd | 09:10 |
| cjwatson | Author: Phillip Lougher <phillip@gandalf.(none)> | 09:10 |
| cjwatson | Date: Fri Mar 16 14:02:58 2007 +0000 | 09:10 |
| cjwatson | UBUNTU: Squashfs: update to 3.2-r2 | 09:10 |
| cjwatson | Signed-off-by: Phillip Lougher <phillip@ubuntu.com> | 09:10 |
| mdz | makes it much harder to scan the changelog | 09:10 |
| BenC | yes, I can that :) | 09:11 |
| Keybuk | ok, interesting | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/linux/ubuntu-feisty>$ gzip -9c debian/changelog | wc -c | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | 79301 | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | (also) | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/linux/ubuntu-feisty>$ grep -v GIT-SHA debian/changelog | gzip -9c | wc -c | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | 63093 | 09:11 |
| Keybuk | dd if=/dev/hdc of=/dev/sda1, wall time was 11:50, clock time was 543s | 09:11 |
| BenC | It was in -12.19 | 09:11 |
| pkl_ | Grep the changelog for Squashfs... first entry 26 Oct 2006 | 09:12 |
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| cjwatson | and yet the tree clearly shows that the diff is applied | 09:12 |
| BenC | pkl_: I'm not sure how it got left out of the changelog, but it was definitely in the 2.6.20-12.19 upload | 09:12 |
| BenC | git-log Ubuntu-2.6.20-11.18..Ubuntu-2.6.20-12.19 | 09:13 |
| BenC | shows it | 09:13 |
| heno | mdz oddly lspci -vvnn didn't give me that info, but Device Manager tells me PIIX_IDE | 09:13 |
| BenC | it would be nice if there was a quick way to see what kernels were in what milestone | 09:14 |
| cjwatson | BenC: is it possible the scripts didn't like Phillip's (none) hostname? | 09:15 |
| cjwatson | although later changes from pkl do show up | 09:15 |
| BenC | cjwatson: it should never drop any changes...all "unknown" ones that don't parse as an ubuntu change should show up under "Upstream Changes: | 09:15 |
| pkl_ | cjwatson: previous commits show up, even though the hostname had the same problems. But, I noticed the none hostname and fixed that. | 09:16 |
| heno | we should do some timings of copying the content of an entire alternate ISO to the HD in Edgy and Feisty (in vmware) to isolate CD driver vs. sqashfs issues | 09:17 |
| BenC | git-log --pretty=short Ubuntu-2.6.20-11.18..Ubuntu-2.6.20-12.19 | perl -w -f debian/bin/git-ubuntu-log | 09:18 |
| BenC | cjwatson: that command misses his entry, so I'll have to check why | 09:18 |
| pkl_ | Squashfs 3.2-r2 does have some performance improvements over Squashfs 3.1 in the main data-path. None of the changes should have caused problems (quite the opposite). | 09:19 |
| pkl_ | I'll have a look at the code... It's probably worth pointing out Squashfs 3.2-r2 was released in January, and no-one else has reported any speed regressions (such a major drop in performance would be immediately noticed by quite a number of liveCDs). | 09:20 |
| cjwatson | yeah, I think chances are thet squashfs is a red herring myself | 09:22 |
| cjwatson | that | 09:22 |
| BenC | pkl_: we're having problems pointing the finger at anything, so squashfs got dragged in | 09:23 |
| BenC | pkl_: is there an easy test we can do from livecd to see squasfs performance comparisons? | 09:23 |
| BenC | like find /usr | time xargs cat > /dev/null ? | 09:24 |
| pkl_ | Ah, I don't mind. Squashfs is an obvious candidate, and I've been trying to think of potential issues all day :) | 09:24 |
| pkl_ | Yes, there's two potential cases. Dentry performance is slower, or readpage performance is slower... or both. | 09:24 |
| pkl_ | Doing a find with an option requiring a stat of each inode (i,e, -type f), will test dentry regressions. | 09:25 |
| cjwatson | find | xargs has the problem that it also stresses CD seek times | 09:25 |
| cjwatson | might not matter in vmware of course | 09:25 |
| BenC | only a virtualized ISO, probably not much of an issue | 09:26 |
| cjwatson | maybe read a big file out of the squashfs instead | 09:26 |
| pkl_ | All the metadata is packed together at the end of the disk... Just doing metadata operations (no file reads) will not seek the head too much. | 09:26 |
| pkl_ | no file data reads, that is. | 09:27 |
| cjwatson | biggest file on the squashfs is /usr/lib/libgcj.so.70.0.0 - only 30MB though | 09:27 |
| cjwatson | ("only". damn gcj.) | 09:27 |
| BenC | I keep thinking we need a sane way to go back and forth between piix and ata_piix using the same CD | 09:27 |
| Keybuk | doesn't openoffice have one bigger? | 09:27 |
| cjwatson | this is from "find /rofs -type f -printf '%p %s\n' | sort -k2 -nr | head" | 09:28 |
| cjwatson | so no | 09:28 |
| BenC | ata_piix doesn't support new_id | 09:28 |
| BenC | piix does though | 09:28 |
| cjwatson | OOo doesn't come in until no. 7 | 09:28 |
| BenC | I'm going to build a 2.6.20-15.27 that defaults to ata_piix, and we can override it easily to piix | 09:28 |
| cjwatson | TBH, this is all pressing my "release-critical" buttons less and less convincingly | 09:29 |
| mdz | cjwatson: agreed | 09:30 |
| cjwatson | though I think it is still worth the detailed investigation | 09:30 |
| cjwatson | I'm just a bit worried that we're focusing so much on this that we may not be paying attention to other testing information coming in | 09:30 |
| cjwatson | anyway, speaking of focusing, it's 8:30pm and I'm off to play Lego Star Wars or something :) | 09:30 |
| Keybuk | heh | 09:31 |
| pkl_ | Doing a large file read will test readpage regressions. There's three major changes between Squashfs 3.1 and Squashfs 3.2-r2. Once affects dentries only, one affects dentries and readpage, and one only affects readpage. If it was Squashfs, it would be uselful to isolate it. | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | pkl_: is 30MB likely to be large enough, or would we need a custom squashfs? | 09:31 |
| BenC | cjwatson, mdz: I do need to make an lrm upload to fix nvidia-glx-new | 09:32 |
| cjwatson | dd tells me 27.2 MB/s first time round, and thereafter c. 200 | 09:32 |
| BenC | It doesn't affect linux-restricted-modules-* at all | 09:32 |
| pkl_ | I'm not sure, but looking at the slowdown, it should be measurable over 30MB. | 09:32 |
| cjwatson | (feisty | 09:32 |
| cjwatson | ) | 09:32 |
| BenC | just that one package (so doesn't bother CDs) | 09:32 |
| BenC | pkl_: given vmware's clock fuckage, it may not be enough to be reliable :/ | 09:33 |
| pkl_ | Yeah, that's why I abandoned Parallels and Vmware for Squashfs development. | 09:33 |
| pkl_ | Couldn't reliably tell why affect changes had made .... | 09:34 |
| pkl_ | why -> what | 09:34 |
| BenC | I would be interested in why my laptop is crashing with ws5 and ws6 though | 09:37 |
| mdz | BenC: beg pardon? | 09:37 |
| mdz | BenC: what's wrong with it? | 09:37 |
| BenC | mdz: nvidia-glx-new is missing a file that wasn't in the other versions of nvidia | 09:38 |
| BenC | xorg module | 09:38 |
| mdz | BenC: so it's non-functional? | 09:38 |
| mdz | sounds like an SRU candidate if so | 09:39 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: isn't nvidia-glx-new on the CDs? | 09:39 |
| === Mithrandir thought it was | ||
| BenC | I don't know if nvidia-glx* is on the CDs | 09:39 |
| BenC | I didn't think they were | 09:39 |
| BenC | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/103050 | 09:39 |
| BenC | there's the bug | 09:39 |
| Mithrandir | Adding nvidia-glx to CD 1 ... | 09:39 |
| Mithrandir | not -new, it seems, though | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | nvidia-glx is explicitly seeded, but not -new | 09:40 |
| BenC | is -legacy? | 09:40 |
| mdz | not an issue for installs or upgrades -> -updates | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | -legacy was deliberately unseeded at one point | 09:40 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: doesn't look like it, no. | 09:40 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: because we can't even pretend to give security support for it. | 09:40 |
| Mithrandir | AIUI | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | indeed | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | supported: * Extra-Exclude: nvidia-glx-legacy-dev # nvidia-glx-legacy is unsupportable | 09:41 |
| BenC | we can't for nvidial-glx{,-new} either :) | 09:41 |
| Mithrandir | we should probably invent a better name for nvidia-glx now that the package isn't maintained any more either. :-/ | 09:41 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: we can pretend for -new | 09:41 |
| BenC | according to ATI it is | 09:41 |
| BenC | at least that | 09:41 |
| BenC | 's what they keep posting on the forums | 09:41 |
| Mithrandir | uh, ATI? You mean nvidia? | 09:41 |
| mdz | I'm going to find food and then go home | 09:41 |
| BenC | err, I mean nvidia, yes :) | 09:41 |
| mdz | I have a functional laptop now though, so I should be back | 09:42 |
| Mithrandir | I'd be very surprised if ATI supported nvidia-glx. :-P | 09:42 |
| BenC | mdz: have a good evening | 09:42 |
| BenC | hehe | 09:42 |
| BenC | Mithrandir: well, my stink raised all kinds of responses from nvidia, basically saying "of course this package that isn't on our main download page is going to be supported" | 09:42 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: but, sure -new is fine since it doesn't touch the CDs. | 09:42 |
| BenC | though I've seen no indication other than hot air | 09:42 |
| BenC | Ok, upload should be quick and painless | 09:43 |
| cjwatson | Mithrandir: an l-r-m upload would create skew though | 09:43 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: ugh, true. :-/ | 09:43 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: iirc -legacy at least has known root holes? | 09:43 |
| cjwatson | if that concerns you for update-manager ... | 09:43 |
| zdzichuBG | vmware-tools should mitigate clock skew | 09:43 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: it does. | 09:43 |
| Mithrandir | but if want to respin anyway.. | 09:43 |
| cjwatson | I think I'm with mdz if it doesn't affect new installs or upgrades from dapper/edgy | 09:44 |
| BenC | Mithrandir: I don't think so anymore...although they have been release non-frequent updates to that line of the driver | 09:44 |
| Mithrandir | BenC: ok | 09:44 |
| BenC | cjwatson: which way is that, SRU? | 09:44 |
| cjwatson | yeah | 09:44 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: what about the update-manager one? | 09:44 |
| BenC | works for me | 09:44 |
| cjwatson | Mithrandir: no opinion yet, haven't read enough of it | 09:45 |
| cjwatson | BenC: if so, the bug should be milestoned later so we don't forget | 09:45 |
| Mithrandir | ok, tell me if you need anything for it. | 09:45 |
| cjwatson | er, "later" | 09:45 |
| Mithrandir | which is an edgy milestone. LP should grow the ability to either move milestones between releases or have distro-wide milestones. | 09:45 |
| BenC | We have one Ubuntu:later | 09:45 |
| BenC | is that edgy? | 09:45 |
| Mithrandir | yes, but just use that one. | 09:45 |
| BenC | ok, done | 09:46 |
| Mithrandir | only LP cares that it's edgy. | 09:46 |
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| heno | Copying the contents of an alternate CD to HD (virtualbox) on Edgy: 1:15, on Feisty: 1:10 | 10:01 |
| heno | so if anything, slightly better CD performance of Feisty | 10:01 |
| BenC | heno: Contents as opposed to dd'ing the device image, right? | 10:12 |
| heno | BenC: right, nautilus copy+paste | 10:12 |
| BenC | sounds reasonably close then | 10:13 |
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| Mirrado | Hi, where is the write place to submit a error with the last proposal to final version of the Feisty kernel? | 10:27 |
| mjg59 | Mirrado: launchpad.net/bugs | 10:27 |
| Mirrado | I already created the bug in launchpad (bug #75935). That is enough? | 10:30 |
| mjg59 | Yes | 10:30 |
| Mirrado | mjg59: thanks | 10:30 |
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| cypherdelic | feisty wont beat 2.6.21, right? | 11:00 |
| mjg59 | Feisty will be shipping 2.6.20 | 11:00 |
| cypherdelic | so 2.6.21 will never be available for feisty? | 11:01 |
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| MrNOKIA | i'm sure you'll find a tutorial on ubuntuforums to get a running .21 kernel pretty soon | 11:03 |
| MrNOKIA | so that would'nt be an issue | 11:03 |
| mjg59 | We'll probably be skipping to .22 for gutsy | 11:03 |
| MrNOKIA | right | 11:04 |
| MrNOKIA | i meant untill gutsy kicks the shelves :) | 11:04 |
| cypherdelic | yes that would best, 6 month, hmm maybe ,23 | 11:04 |
| mjg59 | .23 is unlikely | 11:04 |
| mjg59 | Given that .21 isn't out yet | 11:04 |
| cypherdelic | its rc7, torvalds doesnt want a rc7 | 11:05 |
| cypherdelic | its nearly released | 11:05 |
| MrNOKIA | it might be nearly released | 11:12 |
| MrNOKIA | but it's not tested enough to get to a stable april release, IMO | 11:12 |
| BenC | 99% chance we'll be .22 | 11:13 |
| MrNOKIA | that's why i said it could catch a nice compilation tutorial on the forums | 11:13 |
| BenC | 0.05% chance of .23, and 0.05% chance of .21 | 11:13 |
| mjg59 | BenC: Dude, that's 99.1% | 11:14 |
| MrNOKIA | BenC, so you're saying another kernel update is upon us ? | 11:14 |
| BenC | ok, 0.9% that we'll move to a hurd kernel | 11:14 |
| mjg59 | MrNOKIA: For gutsy | 11:15 |
| BenC | MrNOKIA: for feisty, there are no more kernels | 11:15 |
| mjg59 | Well, other than updates | 11:15 |
| BenC | except for security and maybe some driver updates | 11:15 |
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| MrNOKIA | i was pretty sure of that :) | 11:15 |
| MrNOKIA | it seems there's an (minor ? ) issue with ati detection on the RC, according to the thread | 11:16 |
| cjwatson | what thread? | 11:17 |
| cypherdelic | yes yes more nvidia bug fixes | 11:17 |
| BenC | mjg59: looks like most of the ide/libata crack we have in feisty is upstream, except for libata-hpa...that look right to you? | 11:17 |
| MrNOKIA | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2464356#post2464356 | 11:17 |
| MrNOKIA | post #12 | 11:17 |
| mjg59 | BenC: And the ACPI stuff, but yes | 11:17 |
| BenC | mjg59: the "extended" acpi... | 11:18 |
| BenC | for just libata...ide-acpi is all good? | 11:18 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 11:19 |
| BenC | MrNOKIA: almost no info there...don't know if he's using ati or fglrx | 11:19 |
| cjwatson | don't know how it breaks either | 11:19 |
| BenC | likely not a kernel bug, so my stress level is constant (still high, but level) | 11:20 |
| BenC | cjwatson: I know rtg had some weird ati bug with the dell 1505 he has | 11:21 |
| rtg_ | cjwatson: Still do. | 11:21 |
| BenC | install wouldn't work even for vesa graphics on the livecd, but after an install with alternate it went ok | 11:21 |
| BenC | rtg_: was yours a 200M? | 11:21 |
| rtg_ | BenC: Not true. I had to install fglrx. | 11:21 |
| BenC | ah, that's right | 11:22 |
| rtg_ | ATI X1300 | 11:22 |
| BenC | we killed colin | 11:22 |
| rtg_ | poor guy. | 11:22 |
| MrNOKIA | :) | 11:22 |
| MrNOKIA | there's one thing i don't get | 11:23 |
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| MrNOKIA | are there instances where it might work beryl on a live cd ? | 11:24 |
| BenC | 945/965 graphics will work out of the box...some older ati cards work with xorg driver | 11:24 |
| MrNOKIA | i try to understand why it has been included on the livecd | 11:24 |
| MrNOKIA | mine is ati x1400 on my laptop | 11:24 |
| MrNOKIA | it doesn't work at all | 11:25 |
| BenC | "some older ati cards" | 11:25 |
| MrNOKIA | same for an nvidia 5500 card | 11:25 |
| MrNOKIA | i got it | 11:25 |
| BenC | obviously most laptops wont work | 11:25 |
| BenC | a lot of mine do, because I've preferred intel graphics lately | 11:25 |
| BenC | I don't get 23 billion fps with glx gears, but it runs nicely :) | 11:26 |
| MrNOKIA | i found my dell to be a best buy when it appeares | 11:27 |
| MrNOKIA | appeared | 11:27 |
| MrNOKIA | the only issue is the ATI card | 11:27 |
| BenC | if I buy anything right now, it's going to be core2duo with intel graphics | 11:27 |
| BenC | ipw3945 wireless | 11:27 |
| BenC | best platform for open source right now...only drawback is the ipw3945d userspace daemon | 11:28 |
| MrNOKIA | but i hope someday ATI will realize tha it has to consider linux | 11:28 |
| MrNOKIA | have a friend who worked there in the driver departament | 11:28 |
| MrNOKIA | he says linux doesn't matter for them very much :( | 11:28 |
| BenC | doesn't matter what the driver guys want...it's who's buying the cards that matters | 11:29 |
| MrNOKIA | i know... | 11:29 |
| BenC | I don't think ATI's going to come out well in the graphics area unless they start making some sweeping changes in how they handle their dwindling market share | 11:30 |
| MrNOKIA | maybe AMD will have a say in the matter | 11:31 |
| MrNOKIA | let's hope for the best :) | 11:31 |
| === defendguin [n=jmsunser@216-136-108-250.static.twtelecom.net] has left #ubuntu-kernel [] | ||
| MrNOKIA | it seems there's more kernel trouble on reiserfs | 12:03 |
| MrNOKIA | here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2464356#post2464356 | 12:03 |
| MrNOKIA | what output could be helpfull in this situation ? | 12:04 |
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