=== didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] keescook: hi === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8362.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] keescook: have you seen the mail about the prepared cacti packages for dapper-security? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-April/001532.html === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-01789ddc8037852f] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:16] geser: yeah, I did, unfortunately, his DNS has been down ever since. :( [12:17] that's bad [12:18] keescook: I've checked it now and it works here === Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz_ [n=mdz@ip-81-1-98-32.cust.homechoice.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:32] geser: oh good! thanks for checking [12:34] mako, please stop flooding planet ubuntu kthxbye ;) === guerby [n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jcole [i=jcole@nat/hp/x-4ea639be2f66296f] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:38] where did nvu go? http://packages.ubuntu.com/nvu === hggdh [n=hggdh@pool-71-170-94-19.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] jcole: according to a comment in a bug it was removed because nvu is unmaintained upstream === dcsmith [n=dcsmith@ool-4351bc6d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:48] geser: hrm, i like it did tables... i wonder what a good alternative html gui editor would be [12:49] geser: open office's html editor puts a bunch of unnecessary crap in the html [12:50] jcole: kompozer (http://kompozer.net/) is the successor of nvu but I don't know if there are packages already somewhere [12:51] geser: there are on revu [12:53] jcole: Ping tonyyarusso (or soemthing close to that) on #ubuntu-motu. He can hook you up. [12:54] ScottK: will do [12:54] thanks geser, ScottK === Monk-e [n=guidolou@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Monk-e [n=guidolou@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lutin [n=Lutin@ubuntu/member/lutin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ubotu [n=ubotu@ubuntu/bot/ubotu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:26] Mithrandir: erm, is it known that the xserver-xorg-video-intel source builds an xserver-xorg-video-i810 binary and will supersede that in main? [01:26] tepsipakki: ^-- [01:26] this seems like a bad idea to accept === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Exit,] === paddycarey [n=paddy@cpc3-blfs4-0-0-cust911.belf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Monk-e [n=guidolou@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === pygi [n=mario@83-131-71-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:32] hello folks [01:33] hi pygi [01:37] hey pygi [01:39] does dvd menu navigation now work in feisty's totem-gstreamer? on edgy and below, i usually install totem-xine to work around this... [01:39] No [01:40] Nobody's implemented it for gstreamer-0.10 yet [01:40] ah, ok, back to totem-xine then [01:40] mjg59: thanks === sonictwin [n=ryan@c-68-61-98-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:41] jcole: feel free to implement it :-) === Lutin [n=Lutin@ubuntu/member/lutin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lutin [n=Lutin@ubuntu/member/lutin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:49] later all, time to go home! === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:04] Hobbsee & Jdong, hi :) [02:04] hey [02:04] heya pygi! === TomB_ [n=tomb@host81-154-117-163.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === codingmaster [n=codingma@p5B1525A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === johanbr [n=j@blk-224-156-151.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mrpouit [n=mrpouit@ubuntu/member/mrpouit] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.149.0.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === statik [n=emurphy@canonical/launchpad/statik] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sladen [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hggdh [n=hggdh@pool-71-170-94-19.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === eck [n=evan@unaffiliated/eck] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:52] what parameters should I run strace with when filing a bug report on a package that segfaults? [02:55] never mind, i found it in the wiki === eck [n=evan@unaffiliated/eck] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === gouki_ [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alex-weej [n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MrNOKIA1 [n=user@86.121.182.171] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D8362.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:20] mjg59: around ? [03:22] lifeless: Hi [03:23] mjg59: hi. I suspect my laptops hdparm etc stuff is on crack due to my fiddling with it ages ago, and I know you've done some work on sane defaults here. Whats the best way for me to get your recommended behaviour w.r.t. disk spindown when on battery? === ssam [n=ssam@87.127.117.246] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:23] Purge acpi-support and reinstall? :) [03:24] hdparm as well ? (or is /etc/hdparm.conf irrelevant ?) [03:25] Yeah [03:25] any other packages? [03:25] Shouldn't be [03:26] *boom* [03:26] (unclear sorry, I mean, I've hit the button to do that) === gouki_ is now known as gouki [03:29] mjg59: thanks, will I need to reboot to activate the changes? [03:29] (please say no) [03:30] No [03:30] thank you! === taggart [n=taggart@c-71-231-64-33.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Nergar [n=Nergar@189.141.112.72] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:40] hello [03:40] where can i take a look at the ubuntu todo list?? things developers are working on?? === mpt_ [n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:41] Nergar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO [03:41] nice, thanx Hobbsee === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === desudation [n=dpollock@eclipse/developer/Eclipse/desudation] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xtknight [n=xtknight@c-68-43-122-102.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === taggart [n=taggart@c-71-231-64-33.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Client] === philwyett [n=philip@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.12.154.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jtt [n=chatzill@adsl-065-006-144-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jtholmes [n=chatzill@adsl-065-006-144-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === milli [n=milli@famfrit.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RenatoSilva [n=renato@201.5.135.119] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:12] hi guys, let me ask: will Feisty come with the newest GNOME 2.18.1 and be based on the newest Debian 4.0 "Etch"?????? [05:13] i guess that's not a coincidence [05:15] RenatoSilva: Ubuntu is always based on Debian unstable/"Sid" [05:15] and it will come with GNOME 2.18 === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:16] jdong: nice! dont' forget the additional 1 after "18" [05:16] well if the point-releases hold worthwhile updates, they will be provided [05:17] historically, that has been the case. Either Ubuntu is released with the .1 or .2 patches, or they are provided as post-release updates [05:17] jdong: do you remember me from yesterday? [05:17] yes, I do [05:19] jdong: lets's start a meta discussion again, what about I notice Mr. Shuttleworth about the issue we've discussed yesterday? [05:20] it is probably worse for your cause if you pester more and more people about it... [05:20] the specs process is already in place for proposing new features [05:21] and shortcutting it by persistently nagging developers will not get you anywhere.... [05:24] jdong: i just want he keeps this in mind, as he says on his wiki page: "the problem is not to get funds, but allocate them to people and projects", so i think it's a nice place to invest money in case there's no volunteers available [05:25] RenatoSilva: if it's a worthwhile spec, it'll get done by paid developers [05:25] RenatoSilva: and that's what the spec process is for [05:26] RenatoSilva: if it's not so important, then you, or whoever can do it [05:27] BenC: and who does decide the importance of the spec? [05:27] RenatoSilva: most likely, if you yourself aren't prepared to put in some work, then the spec will just die...it's not a process where you toss in a two-liner idea and expect us to work out all the details [05:27] RenatoSilva: we the developers do === asac_ is now known as asac [05:27] mostly it's decided by mdz, cjwatson and Keybuk [05:29] RenatoSilva: and just so you know, if you email Mark, the most likely answer will be very close to what I've told you here :) === zenrox [i=zenrox@pool-71-115-220-136.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:29] thought I can't speak for him directly [05:29] s/thought/though/ === jdstrand [n=james@mail.strandboge.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:30] BenC: are you the one with the Macbook, or am I thinking of someone else? [05:30] BenC: so let me sse if i've understand [05:30] jdong: I don't own a macbook, but kyle does [05:30] ok [05:30] was just wondering how well it runs Ubuntu [05:30] and also battery life figures [05:31] BenC: teh spec is there, and you let the community starts to implement it, so the importance you give to it grows with feedback the specs obtains???? [05:31] I know ti runs Ubuntu, but I couldn't tell you details [05:31] RenatoSilva: Most specs we implement are written by the ubuntu-core-dev team [05:31] kylem: if you have a sec and could talk to me a bit about your macbook, let me know :) === desudation [n=dpollock@eclipse/developer/Eclipse/desudation] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === `23meg [n=23meg@unaffiliated/23meg/x-000000001] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:33] RenatoSilva: but yes, the importance, and likelyhood of a spec being implemented by us increases based on the support of that spec [05:33] RenatoSilva: if someone proposes a spec, and doesn't follow through with the specs implementation details, discussions process, and approval, then we wont even look at it [05:33] note, that's not because of it coming from the community [05:34] even we have specs we propose that never even get approved [05:34] and we propose heaps [05:40] BenC: I think that even if this feature suggestion and spec (winmodems out of the box) doesn't become main-stream in Launchpad (and I believe it's likely to happen since all dial-up users cannot connect to the internet so that can "protest", and almost many of the non-dialup users just *don't care* about the other ones), it's still a critical issue for all I've said yesterday. I think it's a *great demand* that is almost likely to keep *silent* an [05:41] RenatoSilva: oh, check the spec list, I believe we already have this proposed [05:41] ltmodem or something [05:42] The most common Winmodems (Conexant-based ones) can't be supported [05:42] Smartlink ones are already supported [05:43] BenC: i know, there's a spec and a great wiki describing the "gravity" of the issue, as Mr. jdong and I have talked about yesterday [05:43] And ltmodem is in l-r-m, but breaks on SMP kernels, so [05:43] RenatoSilva: winmodems are already supported to the best of our abilities [05:43] mjg59: RenatoSilva was speaking about a new martian driver for the Agere 1648C's [05:43] If you want people to write new drivers, then I'm afraid Ubuntu isn't the best place to do it [05:43] (it seems to be a relatively new driver though, but claims SMP support) [05:44] jdong: Oh, that one? The hack of ltmodem that puts half of it in userspace? [05:44] mjg59: why? distribution limitation? [05:44] It's interesting. I remain unconvinced by the licensing aspect. [05:44] RenatoSilva: What, for the Conexant stuff? Yes. [05:44] mjg59: I've never heard of it, so you obviously know more about it than I do :) [05:45] also Conexant HDA drivers mess around with alsa === ssam [n=ssam@87.127.117.246] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:45] oh not this again... [05:45] mjg59: doesn't linmodems.org have written some driver? [05:45] RenatoSilva: No [05:45] I'm sure our alsa deity hates that :) [05:45] RenatoSilva: For Conexant modems, you have to obtain them from linuxant.com [05:45] Hobbsee: good to see you :) [05:45] We don't have permission to redistribute them. Even the 14.4k ones. [05:45] hi jdong [05:46] jdong: you might want to take to the forum pepole what BenC just said above, about the specs [05:47] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I'm a leader of the forum ambassadors team and will write a "feasibility FAQ" of sorts within a few days which will be along those lines [05:47] `23meg: try & control the flood of ideas in the gutsy forum? :) [05:47] great, so we have a leader for it now? [05:47] <`23meg> we're trying hard :) [05:47] ajmitch: heh. i've seen it. lots of crack [05:48] <`23meg> we'll be doing our best to filter out the best of them and make them into mature, workable specs [05:48] <`23meg> Hobbsee, actually, four leaders [05:48] `23meg: and then propose that people actually do them? [05:48] Hobbsee: that's expected [05:48] ajmitch: to which? [05:48] about there being lots of crack [05:48] ah, yes [05:49] jdong: so the "very hard work" you reffered yesterday are justo to *write* the drivers???? [05:49] RenatoSilva: not necessarily... both to write the drivers and to integrate the drivers into a distribution [05:49] <`23meg> at least one of the FA leaders will represent the most workable ones in uds-sevilla, maybe grouping some of the smaller ones into "pack" specs similar to common-customizations === lukaswayne9 [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:50] `23meg: what concerns me is the fact that a lot of the documentation [idea] s that are there, the forum community should be able to get there and write themselves [05:51] yet they dont seem to, and prefer wand waving [05:51] <`23meg> i agree [05:51] <`23meg> we're steering them in that direction [05:51] <`23meg> as DIY as possible [05:52] <`23meg> we'll almost certainly need technical consultation on some of the ideas that can make solid specs, so i'll probably be bugging you around here until uds [05:53] heh [05:53] jdong: I dunno about the other modems, but I believe the most common allow to be redistributed, and that integration work is not that hard I think, at least on the boudaries I'm around in my mind, let me give my example with Agere: [05:53] RenatoSilva: we've already told you many times about the agere modem. [05:53] the ltmodem driver is ALREADY in by default [05:53] it just does NOT work on SMP kernels, hence you have to install the -386 kernel to use it [05:54] and mjg59 has technical reasons why he is uncomfortable with the martian driver [05:54] and the Agere is not the most common winmodem. By far the most common are Conexant HCF/HSF chipsets, of which there is no support we can include legally === pradeep [n=pradeep@unaffiliated/pradeep] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:55] jdong: I can describe the detection of the modem and the installation of Martian as a simple shell script. From this towards a .deb is not that difficult I think (except that i dunno how to do it :D ), so I think that at least one very common modem can be embeded into Ubuntu and its installation, not being that difficult. Correct me please if I'm wrong... [05:56] RenatoSilva: Please listen. A core developer has technical reasons why he is UNCOMFORTABLE with the inclusion of the martian driver. [05:56] RenatoSilva: and is the shell script on crack? mjg59 clearly thinks it is [05:56] RenatoSilva: It's a PCI device. We don't need a shell script. [05:57] We already have support for autoloading drivers based on PCI devices. [05:58] mjg59: I absoulutelly dunno how it could be implemented, but if it can be described as a simple script, for sure that a better thing can be done over it I think [05:58] RenatoSilva: We could just include the driver. Right now I'm not especially happy to do so, but I'll look into it. [05:58] But already it should just work if you use the -386 kernel [06:00] mjg59: then you coud autoload martian, but as jdong is saying, you have technical reasons to don't doing this, reasons that I can't undestand on my level of abstraction, right? [06:00] RenatoSilva: Right [06:01] Or, rather, we have reasons not to include the driver right now [06:01] If we did include the driver, it would be autoloaded [06:01] mjg59: if Ubuntu autodetect my mdem, then it should load ltmodem, when linux-restricted-modules was isntalled? [06:02] mjg59: I think ltmodem would work with me, but don't remember why, it did not, am I right? [06:03] yes, ltmodem would work if you installed the 386 kernel [06:04] jdong: true! I forgot! you've said === macd [n=d@68-190-68-87.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:04] jdong: I'm in a Core 2 Duo, so that martian was my only option [06:05] jdong: if someday you could feel comfortable with it, so you could include it in generic kernel [06:05] RenatoSilva: right, which is why you would want a SMP capable kernel [06:06] RenatoSilva: martian will likely be evaluated for the next release [06:06] jdong: SMP? [06:06] multi-processor [06:06] the -generic kernel [06:06] jdong: hum [06:06] RenatoSilva: Anyway, there's a defined process for specifying improvements to Ubuntu. This isn't the right place to ask technical questions unless they directly relate to Ubuntu development. [06:07] mjg59: sorry again :D [06:07] so I ask everybody === Moowiz2020 [i=Moowiz20@pool-71-117-95-184.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mneptok [n=mneptok@canonical/support/mneptok] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:11] if you 've undestand the critical importance of winmodem out of the box, and also undestand that the spec may fail, not because it's not important, but because it keeps hidden, silent, so *what can I (or we, dialupers) do* to fight it become true, so that it opens a great door for ubuntu adoption growing around the world??? [06:11] RenatoSilva: Write drivers [06:11] Find other people to write drivers [06:11] RenatoSilva: find someone to bloody well code it yourself. that's the simple solution, and the only way that you can be sure-fire guarenteed that it happens. [06:12] s/yourself/themselves/ [06:12] mjg59: another options? This i dunno! :D [06:12] RenatoSilva: Really, this is off-topic here [06:13] RenatoSilva: [06:13] RenatoSilva: you've been told the solution over and over. take what's been said, and act on it, or dont complain when it doenst get done. But you can quit disturbing the development channel, after you've been given the answer, time and time again. [06:14] so since I can't write drivers, i can't do nothing, only hoping! [06:15] you can find someone else to... [06:15] and about the off-topic, this is why i meta-duscuss [06:15] which channel do you recomment? [06:15] #ubuntu-offtopic [06:15] morning guys [06:16] hi fabbione [06:16] hey Hobbsee [06:17] morning fabbione [06:17] hi aj === micahcowan [n=micah@adsl-76-211-249-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:22] good evening [06:22] does anyone know how i can force my 1G ethernet card to 1000FDX [06:22] mii-tool only appears to work up to 100FDX [06:22] jtt: try mii-tools [06:23] then no... [06:23] ok, there is the place where we say things that no one directly involved in the strategic decisions will be there to listen and consider, so i should be saying all my blah-blah-blah there, and be happy to it taking no effect. You don't care about us. Even proprietary, at least M$ listen its users. I'm sad with the way you treate me, and I gess I'm giving-up of all this and take my original Win copy free of charge that Microsoft provides me at Univ [06:23] fabbione: at least the current man page show 10FDX and 100FDX thansk [06:23] sabdfl: very sad [06:24] jtt: i would like to have that problem.. my network switch is 100Mb ... [06:25] fabbione: yeah [06:27] RenatoSilva; nobody pays for ubuntu. there is limited money for the development of ubuntu. there are only so many developers and only so many hours in a day. important features that affect the highest numbers of users are prioritised. some people get a raw deal. with limited resources you can't possibly please everyone. === Annn0nym0us [i=Annn0nym@pool-71-117-95-184.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:28] RenatoSilva; sorry. really. [06:28] desrt: This isn't the place to have this discussion [06:28] mjg59; i agree [06:28] Anyway. Bed. [06:28] good idea! [06:30] desrt: this is a very important feature and affect all the dozens of millions of dial-up users we have here, *believe you or not*. It was a nice and great way to tell me: "Hey, if you want to help, WIRITE A DRIVER. Otherwise, STOP DISTURBING US". Very Nice. === mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o Hobbsee] by ChanServ === mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o jdong] by ChanServ [06:31] Hobbsee; take it easy [06:31] guys calm down please === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:32] RenatoSilva: he didn't say or mean that.. so please calm down [06:32] RenatoSilva: if you believe that this is a really important issue please follow the escalation procedure for technical issue using the Technical Board [06:32] RenatoSilva: please take this discussion to #ubuntu-offtopic... nobody is belittling the importance of winmodem support === mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o jdong] by jdong [06:33] RenatoSilva: this is not the right forum to express your hanger because we are in short of resources === mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o Hobbsee] by ChanServ [06:37] fabbione: it's not a question of only expressing, but make a thing become real === jtt [n=chatzill@adsl-065-006-144-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:38] fabbione: please me redirect me to the right place (and offtopic is NOT) and I'll leave you right now [06:38] RenatoSilva: i understand what you are trying to do but this is not the right way to do it.. sure.. allow me a couple of minutes to find the procedure on the wiki page.. === jcole [n=jcole@c-67-174-222-53.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:40] fabbione: thanks!!!!! === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@105.18.235.85.dk-boa.res.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:41] RenatoSilva: ok the first pages you want to look at are: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/governance and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda [06:42] RenatoSilva: specifically the Technical Board section. [06:42] RenatoSilva: in the wiki it's explained how to raise an issue to the Technical Board to raise the importance of the issue [06:43] RenatoSilva: now.. from my personal experience (so take it as you like), they might ask you to write a blueprint/specification on how to achieve this technical goal [06:43] RenatoSilva: in that case i suggest you look at .. /me looks for URLS... [06:43] fabbione: a spec already exists.... [06:43] jdong: yes.. i am getting there [06:43] ok :) [06:44] RenatoSilva: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/winmodem-support [06:45] RenatoSilva: from there you see what has been done/what is the status/why it's not done yet and so on... [06:45] RenatoSilva: you can also find the names of the people that have been working on the specification and see if the specification is correct or not [06:46] RenatoSilva: does this answer your question? [06:47] brb [06:48] RenatoSilva, please realize, the issue isn't that we don't want to fix the problem, it's that it's a very difficult problem: the manufacturers of your modem card have decided /not/ to let people take a look at how it works, which makes it very difficult to write drivers for. They, of course, wrote their own drivers for Windows, but it's really not the Linux/Ubuntu developers' fault that we don't have a quick-n-easy s [06:48] olution for you... [06:53] re === ivoks [n=ivoks@3-178.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:54] dict -d vera re: re = r&e = research & engineering... :/ === bdgraue [n=bdgraue@dyndsl-085-016-081-162.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:57] fabbione: : i have to read the docs you passed me to know if it answer. But finally anywway i'll stop after all docs on that spec, so i hope that I can actively get involved on it, helping to improve its importance. I have saved your links, tahnk you very much. [06:57] RenatoSilva: getting involved would be lovely.. specially because that will extend the user base and hardware where we can get help for testing [06:58] RenatoSilva: as you can imagine yourself it's not possible for us to have access to all variants of all hardware [06:58] RenatoSilva: [06:58] ops [06:58] RenatoSilva: so any extra help is good [06:59] RenatoSilva: in regard of the docs, what you really want to read carefully is how to escalate issues to the Tech Board. This is important if you feel that the issue has not been prioritize properly. [06:59] fabbione: that's what I'm trying to do "though humanly" difficult [07:00] fabbione: thanks about the doc, I'll focus specifically on that, I think this is exactly what I'm searching for [07:00] RenatoSilva: yes as i said i do understand why you come here and the reason why i am pointing you to those docs, is because you were using the wrong way. [07:00] RenatoSilva: anyway i am glad that we are partially solving this little accident.. but i would be glad if next time we can use a more appropriate forum [07:01] micahcowan: What i'm saying and what spec also does is that some modems have proprietary linux drivers that can be redistributed, and now with the new policy of including propietary software such as MP3 codecs into Ubuntu default install, it could be applyed to modems too. *At least these could be supported*, such as, but not limited to, mine. I was sad because of the "human" isse: "WRITE A DRIVER OR GET OUT". But now Fabbione is treating me with [07:01] Now I'll do what I said. I'll read that docs and stop disturbing you, very sorry and thanks to fabbione [07:01] has this been fixed in 2.6.20-15? i'm running 2.6.20-13 -> http://pastebin.ca/444038 [07:02] uh, we don't include proprietary codecs in a default installation. === sonictwin [n=ryan@c-68-61-98-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:02] that'd leave us extremely vulnerable to lawsuits, etc. [07:02] Mithrandir: installation is made easy though [07:02] ok guys.. i think we have addressed (partially at least) the problem with Renato.. let's stop the mess here since we have a release to do [07:03] fabbione: that message was written minutes before you told me that thing, forget it all [07:04] RenatoSilva: ok it was also to everybody else.. not just you... [07:04] RenatoSilva: good luck [07:06] fabbione: for you too [07:06] RenatoSilva: gracias :) === jtt [n=jtholmes@adsl-065-006-144-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:07] fabbione: obrigado! tenha um bom dia! [07:07] RenatoSilva: anche a te! === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@61.240.193.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mithrandir twiddles his thumbs while new Kubuntu images are building. === RenatoSilva [n=renato@201.5.135.119] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [07:28] morning tollef [07:29] morning Andrew [07:30] good morning all [07:31] anyone know how to force 1G card to 1000FDX mii-tools only appears to go to 100FDX === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-122-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:33] mako, ping === codingmaster [n=codingma@p5b152d66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dogmatism [n=dogmatis@24.115.218.54.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=thekorn@a89-182-23-2.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bronson_ [n=bronson@adsl-76-202-197-80.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jtt [n=jtholmes@adsl-065-006-144-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jtt [n=jtholmes@adsl-065-006-144-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@220.207.23.59] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bryce_ [n=bryce@71.237.200.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.12.154.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F7635B.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:19] good morning [08:19] hey daniel [08:19] Good morning [08:19] & pitti :) [08:19] hey Andrew === pitti hugs ajmitch [08:20] Hello? === pitti hugs AndrewB, too :) === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jonibo [n=jonas@213.212.2.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@220.207.23.59] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@20-32.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying__ [n=freeflyi@220.205.0.185] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marilize [n=marilize@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jkbys [n=jkbys@218-251-52-236.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks_ [n=ivoks@36-61.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos_ [n=carlos@163.pool85-48-166.static.orange.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:15] pitti: hi [09:16] pitti: Could you check where is being installed quanta.mo files? [09:16] hey carlos! [09:16] pitti: I see it exported from Launchpad, but kde base packages doesn't have it [09:16] pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdewebdev/+bug/46156 [09:16] Malone bug 46156 in kdewebdev "Quanta with wrong language (English)" [Medium,Confirmed] [09:17] ./sources-base/language-pack-kde-hu-base/data/hu/LC_MESSAGES/quanta.po [09:17] carlos: ^ et al [09:17] carlos: plenty of them in the kde packages [09:17] carlos@aragorn:~$ dpkg -L language-pack-kde-de-base|grep quanta [09:17] carlos@aragorn:~$ [09:18] Using 7.04+20070412 [09:19] pitti: it seems to affect Edgy too [09:19] not sure about Dapper [09:20] carlos: edgy-updates has them in the kde-base sources, too [09:21] Copying pt_BR/quanta into package ../edgy-updates/sources-update/language-pack-kde-pt [09:21] and so on [09:21] carlos: the po files have a lot of errors, though, so they might not actually be compiled into a .mo file [09:21] oh!, I see... [09:21] hmm [09:21] do you have the log output? [09:21] carlos: well, errors in pt and oc only === jml [n=jml@59.167.203.115] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ <- logs === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] pitti: ok [09:22] hey seb128! [09:22] hi dholbach [09:23] pitti: that's weird... Launchpad should export 100% valid .po files... [09:23] carlos: apparently not :( === keyes [n=keyes@easyubuntu/keyes] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@p54A67AB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:27] heya mvo [09:27] hey dholbach [09:27] good morning === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-213-189-171-21.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:28] hiya mvo [09:29] hi mvo, dholbach, pitti [09:30] hey Hobbsee === dholbach hugs Hobbsee === Hobbsee hugs dholbach :) === pitti dances around Hobbsee [09:30] mjg59: you around? === Hobbsee backs away from the crazy pitti.... [09:30] hello Hobbsee, pitti [09:31] Hobbsee: isn't that hard to do when he's dancing around you? [09:31] Mithrandir: depends how quickly i run away :P [09:31] Hobbsee: thanks for the video-intel fix; I'll wait with NEWing until this has built [09:31] pitti: :) no problem === pitti doubles his revolving speed === Monk-e [n=guidolou@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:32] Hobbsee: oh! :) [09:32] good catch === Hobbsee watches pitti lose it, and smash against a wall or something [09:32] oh, c'mon, 180 bug mails in 12 hours? [09:32] seb128: ^ how many must you get, 3000? :-( [09:33] pitti: might be due to me, I closed over 300 NeedInfos desktop bugs yesterday [09:33] seb128: oh, that's great then :) === pitti hugs seb128 === seb128 hugs pitti back === hoora_13 [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-358206eceeed3454] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:34] seb128: no, that wasn't it unfortunately; mostly networkmanager spam [09:34] :( [09:34] maybe somebody cleaned it? ;) [09:35] Launchpad going down in 10 minutes for a code and database update. Estimated downtime is 10 mins or less. === Spads [n=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iceman_ [n=iceman@cable-87-244-154-165.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === heno [n=henrik@ubuntu/member/heno] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:49] *** New Kubuntu CD and DVD entries posted at https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting/ -- 20070417 *** === sahin_h [n=ezaz@dsl5400DAF2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === reitblatt [n=mark@w-mob101-128-62-91-44.public.utexas.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kjalil [n=kjalil@host81-137-0-173.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === codingmaster [n=codingma@dslb-084-058-194-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:22] cjwatson: no, I erased the installation from 106971, but could easily recreate it again in vmware [10:22] cjwatson: I didn't chase it as it seemed a minor issue, certainly for the moment [10:22] morning Matt === Kmos [n=gothicx@unaffiliated/kmos] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:24] hi mdz === smurfix [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:26] mdz: sure, was just in case you had it handy [10:26] I agree it's clearly minor === saispo [n=saispo@ryu.zarb.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:30] heno: thanks === Keybuk [n=scott@yttrium.canonical.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@cable-85.28.95.83.coditel.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zerbero_ [n=jga@p85.212.31.12.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:40] Hmm. Wasn't the multiminute delay in creating logical volumes fixed? [10:40] shawarma: no.. release note [10:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyKnownIssues?action=show [10:41] fabbione: Oh, ok. It's just in the installer, though? [10:41] only text installer [10:41] yes [10:41] it (should) work in the installed system [10:42] Alright. === saispo [n=saispo@ryu.zarb.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:45] fabbione: Do we know what causes it? [10:46] sharms: yes.. look at the bug [10:47] fabbione: The bug speaks about the lilo installer being broken, not much about lv creation taking a long time. Am I perhaps looking at the wrong bug? [10:49] shawarma: i see why.. second.. i will fix the wiki page [10:49] wrong url link [10:49] fabbione: Coolio. [10:50] try again :) [10:52] Ah, that makes much more sense. >/( [10:52] Er.. Gah, frickin US keyboard layout. [10:53] >/) == :-) === _TomB [n=tomb@host81-154-117-163.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fouad [n=fouad@212.35.95.107] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:05] iwj: did you ever get around to file a bug for that raid thingy? otherwise i am going to do it and add it to the release notes.. [11:07] Mithrandir: bug 99908 looks like it may be Xubuntu-specific ubiquity breakage [11:07] Malone bug 99908 in ubiquity "The ext3 file system creation in partition #1 of SCSI1 (0,0,0) (sda) failed." [Undecided,Needs info] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99908 [11:08] at least, jerrylamos' hijacking of that bug === Arby [n=richard@shiny.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fouad [n=fouad@212.35.95.107] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] [11:19] cjwatson: is there anything you want from bug 107205? (I just filed it, attached a copy of /var/log/installer); I'm about to blow away the installation. [11:19] Malone bug 107205 in debian-installer "LVM install crashed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107205 [11:20] (and yes, it's a terrible title) [11:21] Mithrandir: what do you mean by crashed? [11:21] what happened exactly? [11:22] fabbione: I chose guided (LVM) got the "something blew up" error and retried, it then worked. [11:22] hmm ok... [11:23] iirc, the previous install was an desktop install off the same kubuntu dvd. [11:23] Mithrandir: is it reproducible? like on each install? [11:23] I haven't retried yet, I suspect what was on the disk from before was relevant. [11:24] ubuntu-server installed fine earlier at least. [11:24] Mithrandir: i can see there is an error coming from partman-lvm.. but it shoudl have warned you that there was already a VG/LV enabled.. [11:25] Mithrandir: sorry to sound paranoid, but are you sure it didn't warn you that there was already one vg/lv enabled and that they had to be wiped to proceed? it's sort of a new warning [11:25] iirc, there wasn't. Previous install was just two partitions. [11:26] might be that one of the previous one was lvm? [11:26] there is the chance that there were dirty lvm data on the disk [11:26] yes, so the metadata might very well still be on the disk. [11:26] that's the possibility than [11:26] Apr 16 14:04:57 partman-lvm: Physical volume '/dev/sda5' is already in volume group 'blupp' [11:26] Apr 16 14:04:57 partman-lvm: Unable to add physical volume '/dev/sda5' to volume group 'ubuntu'. [11:26] and then it proceed properly [11:27] tho the warning should have been there [11:27] i wonder if the priority of the warning is too low in kubuntu [11:27] or something along that line === thesaltydog [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/thesaltydog] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:27] it's the same d-i [11:28] oh right.. d-i [11:28] i guess it was because of the old lvm metadata [11:28] it still won't explain why re-running it would have worked === thesaltydog [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/thesaltydog] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:31] fabbione: No, I'm afraid I didn't. [11:32] iwj: no problem.. we are still in time.. should i do it? [11:32] I'll do it now. [11:32] ok great thanks === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-devel === philwyett [n=philip@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thesaltydog [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/thesaltydog] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:44] Mithrandir: I reckon partman-auto-lvm was written before partman started automatically activating volume groups, and so has no idea how to deactivate them [11:44] reassigned to partman-auto-lvm [11:44] fabbione: bug 107211 [11:44] Malone bug 107211 in linux-source-2.6.20 "udev event for md setup sent too early" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107211 [11:45] iwj: thanks.. [11:45] Is there a way to subscribe "the bug contacts for mdadm" or do I have to create a spurious task ? [11:45] fabbione: Shall I subscribe you ? [11:46] iwj: i am adding myself thanks [11:46] actually it's assigned to the kernel.. i get them all :) === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gortiz [n=gortiz@88.87.105.4] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:03] seems the ppc alternate for ubuntu and edubuntu are oversized, do we care for that with a last minute seed change or do we just ignore it ? === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:03] powerpc -> not release-critical [12:03] (i guess we could drop something from supported without affecting other stuff) [12:04] supported does not affect the alternate CDs [12:04] cjwatson, i know, thats why i ask about the plans :) [12:04] err, ship, sorry [12:04] ogra: ugh, they were within the limit about three days ago [12:04] I'll take a quick look at language packs [12:04] ok [12:05] cjwatson: can it be that they still have some old kernels or so? [12:05] but if it can't be done in ship, we won't change desktop to cope [12:05] they had been at 730 MB, and suddenly at 690 MB the day after [12:05] pitti: not in alternate, no === cprov [n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:05] hmm, weird [12:06] cjwatson: indeed I added some 15 MB of langpacks to ppc/alternates recently, because there was plenty of space; but not nearly enough to cut down by 45 MB === pygi [n=mario@89.172.136.248] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:08] edubuntu is only at 727M [12:08] and intrestingly kubuntu is fine === TomaszD [n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:10]