[12:13] <geser> keescook: hi
[12:13] <geser> keescook: have you seen the mail about the prepared cacti packages for dapper-security? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-April/001532.html
[12:16] <keescook> geser: yeah, I did, unfortunately, his DNS has been down ever since.  :(
[12:17] <geser> that's bad
[12:18] <geser> keescook: I've checked it now and it works here
[12:32] <keescook> geser: oh good!  thanks for checking
[12:34] <Seveas> mako, please stop flooding planet ubuntu kthxbye ;)
[12:38] <jcole> where did nvu go? http://packages.ubuntu.com/nvu
[12:46] <geser> jcole: according to a comment in a bug it was removed because nvu is unmaintained upstream
[12:48] <jcole> geser: hrm, i like it did tables... i wonder what a good alternative html gui editor would be
[12:49] <jcole> geser: open office's html editor puts a bunch of unnecessary crap in the html
[12:50] <geser> jcole: kompozer (http://kompozer.net/) is the successor of nvu but I don't know if there are packages already somewhere
[12:51] <ajmitch> geser: there are on revu
[12:53] <ScottK> jcole: Ping tonyyarusso (or soemthing close to that) on #ubuntu-motu.  He can hook you up.
[12:54] <jcole> ScottK: will do
[12:54] <jcole> thanks geser, ScottK 
[01:26] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: erm, is it known that the xserver-xorg-video-intel source builds an xserver-xorg-video-i810 binary and will supersede that in main?
[01:26] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: ^--
[01:26] <cjwatson> this seems like a bad idea to accept
[01:32] <pygi> hello folks
[01:33] <ajmitch> hi pygi 
[01:37] <mr_pouit> hey pygi 
[01:39] <jcole> does dvd menu navigation now work in feisty's totem-gstreamer? on edgy and below, i usually install totem-xine to work around this...
[01:39] <mjg59> No
[01:40] <mjg59> Nobody's implemented it for gstreamer-0.10 yet
[01:40] <jcole> ah, ok, back to totem-xine then
[01:40] <jcole> mjg59: thanks
[01:41] <pochu> jcole: feel free to implement it :-)
[01:49] <jcole> later all, time to go home!
[02:04] <pygi> Hobbsee & Jdong, hi :)
[02:04] <jdong> hey
[02:04] <Hobbsee> heya pygi!
[02:52] <eck> what parameters should I run strace with when filing a bug report on a package that segfaults?
[02:55] <eck> never mind, i found it in the wiki
[03:20] <lifeless> mjg59: around ?
[03:22] <mjg59> lifeless: Hi
[03:23] <lifeless> mjg59: hi. I suspect my laptops hdparm etc stuff is on crack due to my fiddling with it ages ago, and I know you've done some work on sane defaults here. Whats the best way for me to get your recommended behaviour w.r.t. disk spindown when on battery?
[03:23] <mjg59> Purge acpi-support and reinstall? :)
[03:24] <lifeless> hdparm as well ? (or is /etc/hdparm.conf irrelevant ?)
[03:25] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:25] <lifeless> any other packages?
[03:25] <mjg59> Shouldn't be
[03:26] <lifeless> *boom*
[03:26] <lifeless> (unclear sorry, I mean, I've hit the button to do that)
[03:29] <lifeless> mjg59: thanks, will I need to reboot to activate the changes?
[03:29] <lifeless> (please say no)
[03:30] <mjg59> No
[03:30] <lifeless> thank you!
[03:40] <Nergar> hello
[03:40] <Nergar> where can i take a look at the ubuntu todo list?? things developers are working on??
[03:41] <Hobbsee> Nergar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
[03:41] <Nergar> nice, thanx Hobbsee 
[05:12] <RenatoSilva> hi guys, let me ask: will Feisty come with the newest GNOME 2.18.1 and be based on the newest Debian 4.0 "Etch"??????
[05:13] <RenatoSilva> i guess that's not a coincidence
[05:15] <jdong> RenatoSilva: Ubuntu is always based on Debian unstable/"Sid"
[05:15] <jdong> and it will come with GNOME 2.18
[05:16] <RenatoSilva> jdong: nice! dont' forget the additional 1 after "18"
[05:16] <jdong> well if the point-releases hold worthwhile updates, they will be provided
[05:17] <jdong> historically, that has been the case. Either Ubuntu is released with the .1 or .2 patches, or they are provided as post-release updates
[05:17] <RenatoSilva> jdong: do you remember me from yesterday?
[05:17] <jdong> yes, I do
[05:19] <RenatoSilva> jdong: lets's start a meta discussion again, what about I notice Mr. Shuttleworth about the issue we've discussed yesterday? 
[05:20] <jdong> it is probably worse for your cause if you pester more and more people about it...
[05:20] <jdong> the specs process is already in place for proposing new features
[05:21] <jdong> and shortcutting it by persistently nagging developers will not get you anywhere.... 
[05:24] <RenatoSilva> jdong: i just want he keeps this in mind, as he says on his wiki page: "the problem is not to get funds, but allocate them to people and projects", so i think it's a nice place to invest money in case there's no volunteers available
[05:25] <BenC> RenatoSilva: if it's a worthwhile spec, it'll get done by paid developers
[05:25] <BenC> RenatoSilva: and that's what the spec process is for
[05:26] <BenC> RenatoSilva: if it's not so important, then you, or whoever can do it
[05:27] <RenatoSilva> BenC: and who does decide the importance of the spec?
[05:27] <BenC> RenatoSilva: most likely, if you yourself aren't prepared to put in some work, then the spec will just die...it's not a process where you toss in a two-liner idea and expect us to work out all the details
[05:27] <BenC> RenatoSilva: we the developers do
[05:27] <BenC> mostly it's decided by mdz, cjwatson and Keybuk
[05:29] <BenC> RenatoSilva: and just so you know, if you email Mark, the most likely answer will be very close to what I've told you here :)
[05:29] <BenC> thought I can't speak for him directly
[05:29] <BenC> s/thought/though/
[05:30] <jdong> BenC: are you the one with the Macbook, or am I thinking of someone else?
[05:30] <RenatoSilva> BenC: so let me sse if i've understand
[05:30] <BenC> jdong: I don't own a macbook, but kyle does
[05:30] <jdong> ok
[05:30] <jdong> was just wondering how well it runs Ubuntu
[05:30] <jdong> and also battery life figures
[05:31] <RenatoSilva> BenC: teh spec is there, and you let the community starts to implement it, so the importance you give to it grows with feedback the specs obtains????
[05:31] <BenC> I know ti runs Ubuntu, but I couldn't tell you details
[05:31] <BenC> RenatoSilva: Most specs we implement are written by the ubuntu-core-dev team
[05:31] <jdong> kylem: if you have a sec and could talk to me a bit about your macbook, let me know :)
[05:33] <BenC> RenatoSilva: but yes, the importance, and likelyhood of a spec being implemented by us increases based on the support of that spec
[05:33] <BenC> RenatoSilva: if someone proposes a spec, and doesn't follow through with the specs implementation details, discussions process, and approval, then we wont even look at it
[05:33] <BenC> note, that's not because of it coming from the community
[05:34] <BenC> even we have specs we propose that never even get approved
[05:34] <lifeless> and we propose heaps
[05:40] <RenatoSilva> BenC: I think that even if this feature suggestion and spec (winmodems out of the box) doesn't become main-stream in Launchpad (and I believe it's likely to happen since all dial-up users cannot connect to the internet so that can "protest", and almost many of the non-dialup users just *don't care* about the other ones), it's still a critical issue for all I've said yesterday. I think it's a *great demand* that is almost likely to keep *silent* an
[05:41] <BenC> RenatoSilva: oh, check the spec list, I believe we already have this proposed
[05:41] <BenC> ltmodem or something
[05:42] <mjg59> The most common Winmodems (Conexant-based ones) can't be supported
[05:42] <mjg59> Smartlink ones are already supported
[05:43] <RenatoSilva> BenC: i know, there's a spec and a great wiki describing the "gravity" of the issue, as Mr. jdong and I have talked about yesterday
[05:43] <mjg59> And ltmodem is in l-r-m, but breaks on SMP kernels, so
[05:43] <jdong> RenatoSilva: winmodems are already supported to the best of our abilities
[05:43] <jdong> mjg59: RenatoSilva was speaking about a new martian driver for the Agere 1648C's
[05:43] <mjg59> If you want people to write new drivers, then I'm afraid Ubuntu isn't the best place to do it
[05:43] <jdong> (it seems to be a relatively new driver though, but claims SMP support)
[05:44] <mjg59> jdong: Oh, that one? The hack of ltmodem that puts half of it in userspace?
[05:44] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: why? distribution limitation?
[05:44] <mjg59> It's interesting. I remain unconvinced by the licensing aspect.
[05:44] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: What, for the Conexant stuff? Yes.
[05:44] <jdong> mjg59: I've never heard of it, so you obviously know more about it than I do :)
[05:45] <jdong> also Conexant HDA drivers mess around with alsa
[05:45] <Hobbsee> oh not this again...
[05:45] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: doesn't linmodems.org have written some driver?
[05:45] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: No
[05:45] <jdong> I'm sure our alsa deity hates that :)
[05:45] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: For Conexant modems, you have to obtain them from linuxant.com
[05:45] <jdong> Hobbsee: good to see you :)
[05:45] <mjg59> We don't have permission to redistribute them. Even the 14.4k ones.
[05:45] <Hobbsee> hi jdong 
[05:46] <Hobbsee> jdong: you might want to take to the forum pepole what BenC just said above, about the specs
[05:47] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I'm a leader of the forum ambassadors team and will write a "feasibility FAQ" of sorts within a few days which will be along those lines
[05:47] <ajmitch> `23meg: try & control the flood of ideas in the gutsy forum? :)
[05:47] <Hobbsee> great, so we have a leader for it now?
[05:47] <`23meg> we're trying hard :)
[05:47] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh.  i've seen it.  lots of crack
[05:48] <`23meg> we'll be doing our best to filter out the best of them and make them into mature, workable specs
[05:48] <`23meg> Hobbsee, actually, four leaders
[05:48] <Hobbsee> `23meg: and then propose that people actually do them?
[05:48] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's expected
[05:48] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: to which?
[05:48] <ajmitch> about there being lots of crack
[05:48] <Hobbsee> ah, yes
[05:49] <RenatoSilva> jdong: so the "very hard work" you reffered yesterday are justo to *write* the drivers????
[05:49] <jdong> RenatoSilva: not necessarily... both to write the drivers and to integrate the drivers into a distribution
[05:49] <`23meg> at least one of the FA leaders will represent the most workable ones in uds-sevilla, maybe grouping some of the smaller ones into "pack" specs similar to common-customizations
[05:50] <Hobbsee> `23meg: what concerns me is the fact that a lot of the documentation [idea] s that are there, the forum community should be able to get there and write themselves
[05:51] <Hobbsee> yet they dont seem to, and prefer wand waving
[05:51] <`23meg> i agree
[05:51] <`23meg> we're steering them in that direction
[05:51] <`23meg> as DIY as possible
[05:52] <`23meg> we'll almost certainly need technical consultation on some of the ideas that can make solid specs, so i'll probably be bugging you around here until uds
[05:53] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:53] <RenatoSilva> jdong: I dunno about the other modems, but I believe the most common allow to be redistributed, and that integration work is not that hard I think, at least on the boudaries I'm around in my mind, let me give my example with Agere:
[05:53] <jdong> RenatoSilva: we've already told you many times about the agere modem.
[05:53] <jdong> the ltmodem driver is ALREADY in by default
[05:53] <jdong> it just does NOT work on SMP kernels, hence you have to install the -386 kernel to use it
[05:54] <jdong> and mjg59 has technical reasons why he is uncomfortable with the martian driver
[05:54] <jdong> and the Agere is not the most common winmodem. By far the most common are Conexant HCF/HSF chipsets, of which there is no support we can include legally
[05:55] <RenatoSilva> jdong: I can describe the detection of the modem and the installation of Martian as a simple shell script. From this towards a .deb is not that difficult I think (except that i dunno how to do it :D ), so I think that at least one very common modem can be embeded into Ubuntu and its installation, not being that difficult. Correct me please if I'm wrong...
[05:56] <jdong> RenatoSilva: Please listen. A core developer has technical reasons why he is UNCOMFORTABLE with the inclusion of the martian driver.
[05:56] <Hobbsee> RenatoSilva: and is the shell script on crack?  mjg59 clearly thinks it is
[05:56] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: It's a PCI device. We don't need a shell script.
[05:57] <mjg59> We already have support for autoloading drivers based on PCI devices.
[05:58] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: I absoulutelly dunno how it could be implemented, but if it can be described as a simple script, for sure that a better thing can be done over it I think 
[05:58] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: We could just include the driver. Right now I'm not especially happy to do so, but I'll look into it.
[05:58] <mjg59> But already it should just work if you use the -386 kernel
[06:00] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: then you coud autoload martian, but as jdong is saying, you have technical reasons to don't doing this, reasons that I can't undestand on my level of abstraction,  right?
[06:00] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: Right
[06:01] <mjg59> Or, rather, we have reasons not to include the driver right now
[06:01] <mjg59> If we did include the driver, it would be autoloaded
[06:01] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: if Ubuntu autodetect my mdem, then it should load ltmodem, when linux-restricted-modules was isntalled?
[06:02] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: I think ltmodem would work with me, but don't remember why, it did not, am I right?
[06:03] <jdong> yes, ltmodem would work if you installed the 386 kernel
[06:04] <RenatoSilva> jdong: true! I forgot! you've said
[06:04] <RenatoSilva> jdong: I'm in a Core 2 Duo, so that martian was my only option
[06:05] <RenatoSilva> jdong: if someday you could feel comfortable with it, so you could include it in generic kernel
[06:05] <jdong> RenatoSilva: right, which is why you would want a SMP capable kernel
[06:06] <jdong> RenatoSilva: martian will likely be evaluated for the next release
[06:06] <RenatoSilva> jdong: SMP?
[06:06] <jdong> multi-processor
[06:06] <jdong> the -generic kernel
[06:06] <RenatoSilva> jdong: hum
[06:06] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: Anyway, there's a defined process for specifying improvements to Ubuntu. This isn't the right place to ask technical questions unless they directly relate to Ubuntu development.
[06:07] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: sorry again :D
[06:07] <RenatoSilva> so I ask everybody
[06:11] <RenatoSilva> if you 've undestand the critical importance of winmodem out of the box, and also undestand that the spec may fail, not because it's not important, but because it keeps hidden, silent, so *what can I (or we, dialupers) do* to fight it become true, so that it opens a great door for ubuntu adoption growing around the world???
[06:11] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: Write drivers
[06:11] <mjg59> Find other people to write drivers
[06:11] <Hobbsee> RenatoSilva: find someone to bloody well code it yourself.  that's the simple solution, and the only way that you can be sure-fire guarenteed that it happens.
[06:12] <Hobbsee> s/yourself/themselves/
[06:12] <RenatoSilva> mjg59: another options? This i dunno! :D
[06:12] <mjg59> RenatoSilva: Really, this is off-topic here
[06:13] <Hobbsee> RenatoSilva: 
[06:13] <Hobbsee> RenatoSilva: you've been told the solution over and over.  take what's been said, and act on it,  or dont complain when it doenst get done.  But you can quit disturbing the development channel, after you've been given the answer, time and time again. 
[06:14] <RenatoSilva> so since I can't write drivers, i can't do nothing, only hoping!
[06:15] <Hobbsee> you can find someone else to...
[06:15] <RenatoSilva> and about the off-topic, this is why i meta-duscuss
[06:15] <RenatoSilva> which channel do you recomment?
[06:15] <Hobbsee> #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:15] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:16] <Hobbsee> hi fabbione 
[06:16] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[06:17] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[06:17] <fabbione> hi aj
[06:22] <jtt> good evening
[06:22] <jtt> does anyone know how i can force my 1G ethernet card to 1000FDX
[06:22] <jtt> mii-tool only appears to work up to 100FDX
[06:22] <fabbione> jtt: try mii-tools
[06:23] <fabbione> then no...
[06:23] <RenatoSilva> ok, there is the place where we say things that no one directly involved in the strategic decisions will be there to listen and consider, so i should be saying all my blah-blah-blah there, and be happy to it taking no effect. You don't care about us. Even proprietary, at least M$ listen its users. I'm sad with the way you treate me, and I gess I'm giving-up of all this and take my original Win copy free of charge that Microsoft provides me at Univ
[06:23] <jtt> fabbione: at least the current man page show  10FDX and 100FDX  thansk
[06:23] <RenatoSilva> sabdfl: very sad
[06:24] <fabbione> jtt: i would like to have that problem.. my network switch is 100Mb ...
[06:25] <jtt> fabbione: yeah 
[06:27] <desrt> RenatoSilva; nobody pays for ubuntu.  there is limited money for the development of ubuntu.  there are only so many developers and only so many hours in a day.  important features that affect the highest numbers of users are prioritised.  some people get a raw deal.  with limited resources you can't possibly please everyone.
[06:28] <desrt> RenatoSilva; sorry.  really.
[06:28] <mjg59> desrt: This isn't the place to have this discussion
[06:28] <desrt> mjg59; i agree
[06:28] <mjg59> Anyway. Bed.
[06:28] <desrt> good idea!
[06:30] <RenatoSilva> desrt: this is a very important feature and affect all the dozens of millions of dial-up users we have here, *believe you or not*. It was a nice and great way to tell me: "Hey, if you want to help, WIRITE A DRIVER. Otherwise, STOP DISTURBING US". Very Nice.
[06:31] <desrt> Hobbsee; take it easy
[06:31] <fabbione> guys calm down please
[06:32] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: he didn't say or mean that.. so please calm down
[06:32] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: if you believe that this is a really important issue please follow the escalation procedure for technical issue using the Technical Board
[06:32] <jdong> RenatoSilva: please take this discussion to #ubuntu-offtopic... nobody is belittling the importance of winmodem support
[06:33] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: this is not the right forum to express your hanger because we are in short of resources
[06:37] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: it's not a question of only expressing, but make a thing become real
[06:38] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: please me redirect me to the right place (and offtopic is NOT) and I'll leave you right now
[06:38] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: i understand what you are trying to do but this is not the right way to do it.. sure.. allow me a couple of minutes to find the procedure on the wiki page..
[06:40] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: thanks!!!!!
[06:41] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: ok the first pages you want to look at are: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/governance and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[06:42] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: specifically the Technical Board section.
[06:42] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: in the wiki it's explained how to raise an issue to the Technical Board to raise the importance of the issue
[06:43] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: now.. from my personal experience (so take it as you like), they might ask you to write a blueprint/specification on how to achieve this technical goal
[06:43] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: in that case i suggest you look at .. /me looks for URLS...
[06:43] <jdong> fabbione: a spec already exists....
[06:43] <fabbione> jdong: yes.. i am getting there
[06:43] <jdong> ok :)
[06:44] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/winmodem-support
[06:45] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: from there you see what has been done/what is the status/why it's not done yet and so on...
[06:45] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: you can also find the names of the people that have been working on the specification and see if the specification is correct or not
[06:46] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: does this answer your question?
[06:47] <fabbione> brb
[06:48] <micahcowan> RenatoSilva, please realize, the issue isn't that we don't want to fix the problem, it's that it's a very difficult problem: the manufacturers of your modem card have decided /not/ to let people take a look at how it works, which makes it very difficult to write drivers for. They, of course, wrote their own drivers for Windows, but it's really not the Linux/Ubuntu developers' fault that we don't have a quick-n-easy s
[06:48] <micahcowan> olution for you...
[06:53] <fabbione> re
[06:54] <micahcowan> dict -d vera re: re = r&e = research & engineering... :/
[06:57] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: : i have to read the docs you passed  me to know if it answer. But finally anywway i'll stop after all docs on that spec, so i hope that I can actively get involved on it, helping to improve its importance. I have saved your links, tahnk you very much.
[06:57] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: getting involved would be lovely.. specially because that will extend the user base and hardware where we can get help for testing
[06:58] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: as you can imagine yourself it's not possible for us to have access to all variants of all hardware
[06:58] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: 
[06:58] <fabbione> ops
[06:58] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: so any extra help is good
[06:59] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: in regard of the docs, what you really want to read carefully is how to escalate issues to the Tech Board. This is important if you feel that the issue has not been prioritize properly.
[06:59] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: that's what I'm trying to do "though humanly" difficult
[07:00] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: thanks about the doc, I'll focus specifically on that, I think this is exactly what I'm searching for
[07:00] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: yes as i said i do understand why you come here and the reason why i am pointing you to those docs, is because you were using the wrong way.
[07:00] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: anyway i am glad that we are partially solving this little accident.. but i would be glad if next time we can use a more appropriate forum 
[07:01] <RenatoSilva> micahcowan: What i'm saying and what spec also does is that some modems have proprietary linux drivers that can be redistributed, and now with the new policy of including propietary software such as MP3 codecs into Ubuntu default install, it could be applyed to modems too. *At least these could be supported*, such as, but not limited to, mine. I was sad because of the "human" isse: "WRITE A DRIVER OR GET OUT". But now Fabbione is treating me with 
[07:01] <RenatoSilva> Now I'll do what I said. I'll read that docs and stop disturbing you, very sorry and thanks to fabbione
[07:01] <jcole> has this been fixed in 2.6.20-15? i'm running 2.6.20-13 -> http://pastebin.ca/444038
[07:02] <Mithrandir> uh, we don't include proprietary codecs in a default installation.
[07:02] <Mithrandir> that'd leave us extremely vulnerable to lawsuits, etc.
[07:02] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: installation is made easy though
[07:02] <fabbione> ok guys.. i think we have addressed (partially at least) the problem with Renato.. let's stop the mess here since we have a release to do
[07:03] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: that message was written minutes before you told me that thing, forget it all
[07:04] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: ok it was also to everybody else.. not just you...
[07:04] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: good luck
[07:06] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: for you too
[07:06] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: gracias :)
[07:07] <RenatoSilva> fabbione: obrigado! tenha um bom dia!
[07:07] <fabbione> RenatoSilva: anche a te!
[07:28] <ajmitch> morning tollef
[07:29] <Mithrandir> morning Andrew
[07:30] <jtt> good morning all
[07:31] <jtt> anyone know how to force 1G card to 1000FDX  mii-tools only appears to go to 100FDX
[07:33] <micahcowan> mako, ping
[08:19] <dholbach> good morning
[08:19] <ajmitch> hey daniel
[08:19] <pitti> Good morning
[08:19] <ajmitch> & pitti :)
[08:19] <dholbach> hey Andrew
[08:20] <AndrewB> Hello?
[09:15] <carlos> pitti: hi
[09:16] <carlos> pitti: Could you check where is being installed quanta.mo files?
[09:16] <pitti> hey carlos!
[09:16] <carlos> pitti: I see it exported from Launchpad, but kde base packages doesn't have it
[09:16] <carlos> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdewebdev/+bug/46156
[09:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 46156 in kdewebdev "Quanta with wrong language (English)" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[09:17] <pitti> ./sources-base/language-pack-kde-hu-base/data/hu/LC_MESSAGES/quanta.po
[09:17] <pitti> carlos: ^ et al
[09:17] <pitti> carlos: plenty of them in the kde packages
[09:17] <carlos> carlos@aragorn:~$  dpkg -L language-pack-kde-de-base|grep quanta
[09:17] <carlos> carlos@aragorn:~$
[09:18] <carlos> Using 7.04+20070412
[09:19] <carlos> pitti: it seems to affect Edgy too
[09:19] <carlos> not sure about Dapper
[09:20] <pitti> carlos: edgy-updates has them in the kde-base sources, too
[09:21] <pitti> Copying pt_BR/quanta into package ../edgy-updates/sources-update/language-pack-kde-pt
[09:21] <pitti> and so on
[09:21] <pitti> carlos: the po files have a lot of errors, though, so they might not actually be compiled into a .mo file
[09:21] <carlos> oh!, I see...
[09:21] <carlos> hmm
[09:21] <carlos> do you have the log output?
[09:21] <pitti> carlos: well, errors in pt and oc only
[09:22] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ <- logs
[09:22] <carlos> pitti: ok
[09:22] <dholbach> hey seb128!
[09:22] <seb128> hi dholbach
[09:23] <carlos> pitti: that's weird... Launchpad should export 100% valid .po files...
[09:23] <pitti> carlos: apparently not :(
[09:27] <dholbach> heya mvo
[09:27] <mvo> hey dholbach
[09:27] <mvo> good morning
[09:28] <pitti> hiya mvo
[09:29] <Hobbsee> hi mvo, dholbach, pitti 
[09:30] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[09:30] <Burgundavia> mjg59: you around?
[09:30] <mvo> hello Hobbsee, pitti
[09:31] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: isn't that hard to do when he's dancing around you?
[09:31] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: depends how quickly i run away :P
[09:31] <pitti> Hobbsee: thanks for the video-intel fix; I'll wait with NEWing until this has built
[09:31] <Hobbsee> pitti: :) no problem
[09:32] <tepsipakki> Hobbsee: oh! :)
[09:32] <tepsipakki> good catch
[09:32] <pitti> oh, c'mon, 180 bug mails in 12 hours?
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: ^ how many must you get, 3000? :-(
[09:33] <seb128> pitti: might be due to me, I closed over 300 NeedInfos desktop bugs yesterday
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: oh, that's great then :)
[09:34] <pitti> seb128: no, that wasn't it unfortunately; mostly networkmanager spam
[09:34] <seb128> :(
[09:34] <seb128> maybe somebody cleaned it? ;)
[09:35] <stub> Launchpad going down in 10 minutes for a code and database update. Estimated downtime is 10 mins or less.
[09:49] <heno> *** New Kubuntu CD and DVD entries posted at https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting/ -- 20070417 ***
[10:22] <mdz> cjwatson: no, I erased the installation  from 106971, but could easily recreate it again in vmware
[10:22] <mdz> cjwatson: I didn't chase it as it seemed a minor issue, certainly for the moment
[10:22] <Mithrandir> morning Matt
[10:24] <pitti> hi mdz
[10:26] <cjwatson> mdz: sure, was just in case you had it handy
[10:26] <cjwatson> I agree it's clearly minor
[10:30] <Riddell> heno: thanks
[10:40] <shawarma> Hmm. Wasn't the multiminute delay in creating logical volumes fixed?
[10:40] <fabbione> shawarma: no.. release note
[10:40] <fabbione> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyKnownIssues?action=show
[10:41] <shawarma> fabbione: Oh, ok. It's just in the installer, though?
[10:41] <fabbione> only text installer 
[10:41] <fabbione> yes
[10:41] <fabbione> it (should) work in the installed system
[10:42] <shawarma> Alright.
[10:45] <shawarma> fabbione: Do we know what causes it?
[10:46] <fabbione> sharms: yes.. look at the bug
[10:47] <shawarma> fabbione: The bug speaks about the lilo installer being broken, not much about lv creation taking a long time. Am I perhaps looking at the wrong bug?
[10:49] <fabbione> shawarma: i see why.. second.. i will fix the wiki page
[10:49] <fabbione> wrong url link
[10:49] <shawarma> fabbione: Coolio.
[10:50] <fabbione> try again :)
[10:52] <shawarma> Ah, that makes much more sense. >/(
[10:52] <shawarma> Er.. Gah, frickin US keyboard layout.
[10:53] <shawarma> >/) == :-)
[11:05] <fabbione> iwj: did you ever get around to file a bug for that raid thingy? otherwise i am going to do it and add it to the release notes.. 
[11:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: bug 99908 looks like it may be Xubuntu-specific ubiquity breakage
[11:07] <ubotu> Malone bug 99908 in ubiquity "The ext3 file system creation in partition #1 of SCSI1 (0,0,0) (sda) failed." [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99908
[11:08] <cjwatson> at least, jerrylamos' hijacking of that bug
[11:19] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: is there anything you want from bug 107205?  (I just filed it, attached a copy of /var/log/installer); I'm about to blow away the installation.
[11:19] <ubotu> Malone bug 107205 in debian-installer "LVM install crashed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107205
[11:20] <Mithrandir> (and yes, it's a terrible title)
[11:21] <fabbione> Mithrandir: what do you mean by crashed?
[11:21] <fabbione> what happened exactly?
[11:22] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I chose guided (LVM) got the "something blew up" error and retried, it then worked.
[11:22] <fabbione> hmm ok...
[11:23] <Mithrandir> iirc, the previous install was an desktop install off the same kubuntu dvd.
[11:23] <fabbione> Mithrandir: is it reproducible? like on each install?
[11:23] <Mithrandir> I haven't retried yet, I suspect what was on the disk from before was relevant.
[11:24] <Mithrandir> ubuntu-server installed fine earlier at least.
[11:24] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i can see there is an error coming from partman-lvm.. but it shoudl have warned you that there was already a VG/LV enabled..
[11:25] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sorry to sound paranoid, but are you sure it didn't warn you that there was already one vg/lv enabled and that they had to be wiped to proceed? it's sort of a new warning
[11:25] <Mithrandir> iirc, there wasn't.  Previous install was just two partitions.
[11:26] <fabbione> might be that one of the previous one was lvm?
[11:26] <fabbione> there is the chance that there were dirty lvm data on the disk
[11:26] <Mithrandir> yes, so the metadata might very well still be on the disk.
[11:26] <fabbione> that's the possibility than
[11:26] <fabbione> Apr 16 14:04:57 partman-lvm: Physical volume '/dev/sda5' is already in volume group 'blupp'
[11:26] <fabbione> Apr 16 14:04:57 partman-lvm: Unable to add physical volume '/dev/sda5' to volume group 'ubuntu'.
[11:26] <fabbione> and then it proceed properly
[11:27] <fabbione> tho the warning should have been there
[11:27] <fabbione> i wonder if the priority of the warning is too low in kubuntu
[11:27] <fabbione> or something along that line
[11:27] <Mithrandir> it's the same d-i
[11:28] <fabbione> oh right.. d-i
[11:28] <fabbione> i guess it was because of the old lvm metadata
[11:28] <fabbione> it still won't explain why re-running it would have worked
[11:31] <iwj> fabbione: No, I'm afraid I didn't.
[11:32] <fabbione> iwj: no problem.. we are still in time.. should i do it?
[11:32] <iwj> I'll do it now.
[11:32] <fabbione> ok great thanks
[11:44] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I reckon partman-auto-lvm was written before partman started automatically activating volume groups, and so has no idea how to deactivate them
[11:44] <cjwatson> reassigned to partman-auto-lvm
[11:44] <iwj> fabbione: bug 107211
[11:44] <ubotu> Malone bug 107211 in linux-source-2.6.20 "udev event for md setup sent too early" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107211
[11:45] <fabbione> iwj: thanks..
[11:45] <iwj> Is there a way to subscribe "the bug contacts for mdadm" or do I have to create a spurious task ?
[11:45] <iwj> fabbione: Shall I subscribe you ?
[11:46] <fabbione> iwj: i am adding myself thanks
[11:46] <fabbione> actually it's assigned to the kernel.. i get them all :)
[12:03] <ogra> seems the ppc alternate for ubuntu and edubuntu are oversized, do we care for that with a last minute seed change or do we just ignore it ?
[12:03] <cjwatson> powerpc -> not release-critical
[12:03] <ogra> (i guess we could drop something from supported without affecting other stuff)
[12:04] <cjwatson> supported does not affect the alternate CDs
[12:04] <ogra> cjwatson, i know, thats why i ask about the plans :)
[12:04] <ogra> err, ship, sorry
[12:04] <pitti> ogra: ugh, they were within the limit about three days ago
[12:04] <cjwatson> I'll take a quick look at language packs
[12:04] <ogra> ok
[12:05] <pitti> cjwatson: can it be that they still have some old kernels or so?
[12:05] <cjwatson> but if it can't be done in ship, we won't change desktop to cope
[12:05] <pitti> they had been at 730 MB, and suddenly at 690 MB the day after
[12:05] <cjwatson> pitti: not in alternate, no
[12:05] <pitti> hmm, weird
[12:06] <pitti> cjwatson: indeed I added some 15 MB of langpacks to ppc/alternates recently, because there was plenty of space; but not nearly enough to cut down by 45 MB
[12:08] <ogra> edubuntu is only at 727M
[12:08] <ogra> and intrestingly kubuntu is fine 
[12:10] <TomaszD> pitti, hello. Where have all the daily langpacks gone?
[12:10] <pitti> TomaszD: into feisty proper :)
[12:10] <TomaszD> pitti, oh no. So it's too late for any changes now?
[12:10] <ogra> pretty much
[12:10] <pitti> carlos needed to shutdown the Rosetta export for a bit, so I'll continue to build them in May, when the next regular update is due
[12:11] <pitti> TomaszD: everything will go into feisty-updates, don't worry
[12:11] <TomaszD> just one more tiny upload, maybe...? :P
[12:11] <TomaszD> *sigh*. OK.
[12:11] <pitti> TomaszD: no, CD images are looking good, and will most probably not be updated any more
[12:11] <ogra> TomaszD, "one more tiny upload" == some 100 manhours of testing :)
[12:12] <TomaszD> ogra, didn't know. :]  oh well.
[12:12] <Mithrandir> TomaszD: the deadline was close to a week ago.
[12:13] <TomaszD> I just missed the time-frame within which network-manager's "manual configuration" elements appeared in lp
[12:13] <cjwatson> the reason we have language packs is so that this stuff can be updated after release
[12:13] <TomaszD> fine fine, no problem.
[12:14] <TomaszD> one more question, what's the date of the proper langpacks?
[12:14] <TomaszD> wait, I can check that myself, can't I...
[12:15] <pitti> TomaszD: version string
[12:16] <TomaszD> 12th April
[12:16] <TomaszD> damn, the gnome-panel update didn't go in as well, shucks.
[12:17] <TomaszD> I guess I can only blame myself. Too late, too late. 
[12:17] <TomaszD> pitti, langpack update is due in May, yes?
[12:17] <pitti> right
[12:18] <TomaszD> feisty-updates enabled by default, cool. No more questions here. So, you/we're pretty much done with feisty, right?
[12:19] <pitti> TomaszD: let's cross our fingers
[12:19] <TomaszD> I'll hold my congratulations then
[12:19] <TomaszD> :] 
[12:19] <cjwatson> I suppose I could take language-support-en or build-essential off powerpc ship
[12:21] <cjwatson> the monolithic nature of language-support-en is the bane of my life
[12:32] <pitti> weird, expert on Kubuntu falls back to guided mode after configuring the keyboard
[12:33] <cjwatson> I think that may be the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu bug I fixed but didn't push for since I couldn't figure out actual effects that it had
[12:33] <pitti> is there a workaround?
[12:33] <cjwatson> try entering expert mode by adding priority=low to the kernel command line rather than using the F6 menu
[12:33] <pitti> ah, cool
[12:33] <cjwatson> let me know if that works
[12:35] <pitti> cjwatson: right, much better
[12:35] <pitti> Riddell: doing amd64/alternate tests, FYI
[12:37] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ^-- FYI reproduction of the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu problem; shame I didn't go past console-setup when testing ...
[12:37] <cjwatson> probably too late now though
[12:37] <pitti> cjwatson: shuold I file that as a new bug, or is there an existing one?
[12:37] <cjwatson> pitti: no, could you file a bug on gfxboot-theme-ubuntu about that
[12:37] <cjwatson> ?
[12:37] <pitti> of course
[12:37] <pitti> thank you
[12:37] <cjwatson> no existing one I mean, AFAIK anyway
[12:38] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: can you make sure it's release-noted?
[12:39] <pitti> no, I didn't see one on g-t-u
[12:40] <pitti> bug 107220, FYI
[12:40] <ubotu> Malone bug 107220 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "selecting expert mode does not work for Kubuntu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107220
[12:41] <cjwatson> pitti: I do not see how it could avoid affecting the Ubuntu alternates - are you sure?
[12:42] <cjwatson> at that level there should be no difference
[12:42] <pitti> cjwatson: weird, I did an expert install with raid yesterday with the .15 images
[12:42] <pitti> cjwatson: I can try again to verify, of course
[12:42] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: done
[12:43] <cjwatson> pitti: I don't suppose it matters all that much
[12:43] <Mithrandir> cheers.
[12:43] <mneptok> who's packaging zsh for coredev?
[12:43] <mvo> cjwatson: can we have recommends in ubuntu-minimal too for will that confuse something in the installer? I'm thinking of a fix for bug #42555
[12:43] <ubotu> Malone bug 42555 in update-manager "syslog-ng causes ubuntu-minimal to be removed." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42555
[12:43] <cjwatson> mvo: no, I'm afraid not
[12:43] <cjwatson> at least not without serious debootstrap testing
[12:44] <cjwatson> mvo: feel free to remind me after feisty and we can have a look at it
[12:44] <mvo> cjwatson: ok, sure
[12:44] <Mithrandir> mneptok: TIL, afaik.
[12:44] <cjwatson> mneptok: it's imported from Debian with relatively small changes
[12:44] <mneptok> k
[12:45] <mneptok> (4.3.3 just dropped. might be nice to have it for Feisty.)
[12:45] <cjwatson> mneptok: absolutely not
[12:45] <cjwatson> unless it fixes security vulnerabilities
[12:45] <Mithrandir> in which case it should go to -security.
[12:45] <cjwatson> and even then it should go in post-release
[12:46] <cjwatson> mvo: it might actually work ok, thinking about it - would still want to go through it all fairly carefully though, as minimal's a bit weird
[12:46] <mvo> cjwatson: I taged it "later", lets have a look early
[12:46] <cjwatson> hmm. for powerpc, dropping build-essential saves 4674948 bytes, while dropping language-support-en saves 19121700 bytes. Neither gives the 27847370 bytes I need
[12:47] <cjwatson> pitti: is language-pack-en produced in such a way as to drop msgstrs identical to msgids?
[12:48] <cjwatson> apparently not
[12:48] <pitti> cjwatson: I could download 13 and 15 and compare them to find out where the heck those 70 additional MB come from
[12:48] <pitti> cjwatson: no, I don't think so; they should rather be empty than identical, though
[12:48] <cjwatson> pitti: for gutsy, could you make langpack-o-matic not waste 5+MB on language-pack-en when most of the msgstrs are just the msgids?
[12:49] <pitti> cjwatson: definitively, we should either just fix it in rosetta or I mangle them in langpack-o-matic
[12:51] <cjwatson> I don't care really as long as it stops affecting our CDs ;-)
[12:51] <pitti> carlos: ^ can we easily detect that in Rosetta proper?
[12:51] <cjwatson> in Rosetta, I'd think it should be preserved but not exported
[12:51] <carlos> pitti: I think so, yes
[12:52] <carlos> pitti: please, file a bug
[12:52] <pitti> carlos: will do, thanks
[12:52] <carlos> thank you
[12:57] <iwj> cjwatson: Can I overwrite the broken expert mode install (the one with no normal user and no root password) ?  I'll still have the files the installer saved to the usb stick.
[01:04] <cjwatson> iwj: yes, that's fine, thanks
[01:04] <cjwatson> iwj: what other files got saved?
[01:19] <iwj> The installer created an `install' directory containing hardware-summary install-report.template lsb-release partman status syslog
[01:19] <iwj> cjwatson: ^
[01:21] <cjwatson> Thanks. Maybe it's because that function is also used for saving to floppies
[01:21] <cjwatson> oh well, I'll see if I can reproduce it myself at some point
[01:32] <cjwatson> pitti: so, Edubuntu/powerpc was easy to fix, but Ubuntu/powerpc less so. I've been experimenting with germinate, and I think the most practical set of things to drop from Ubuntu powerpc ship (not other flavours - in particular not Edubuntu) would be lsb-*, apache2-mpm-worker, ltsp-server-standalone, ltsp-client, ldm, and language-support-en. What do you think?
[01:33] <pitti> cjwatson: I just finished rebuilding the kernel only server to diff the 13 vs. 14.1 iso images; I'm interested what the actual cause for the huge size increase is
[01:33] <pitti> cjwatson: oh, we ship apache on the alternate CDs? interesting
[01:34] <cjwatson> I'm not concerned about certification for ports architectures, hence lsb-*; ltsp is useful to have in Ubuntu for our supported architectures but I think it's a edge case on Ubuntu powerpc; I couldn't make up the required size without language-support-en; and apache2-mpm-worker just seemed like a reasonable target for a couple of extra MB
[01:34] <cjwatson> I think build-essential is actually kinda useful to keep at least for ps3
[01:35] <pitti> cjwatson: right, but IMHO its removal causes little pain; as a developer system, the default installation is incomplete anyway
[01:35] <cjwatson> pitti: 13 was smaller because linux-image-*-2.6.20-15-* was accidentally missing
[01:35] <cjwatson> it's clear from a diff of the .list files
[01:35] <iwj> cjwatson: I can try to reproduce it in some other way, eg by not saving to usb stick.
[01:36] <pitti> cjwatson: not sure what you mean; 13 had 14.12
[01:36] <cjwatson> pitti: which of the ones I suggested would you prefer to keep? (note language-support-en is not an option, it's just too big - and build-essential + lsb-core gets rid of 3MB more than the sum of either of them alone)
[01:37] <cjwatson> pitti: sorry I mean that linux-image-2.6.20-*.deb was missing from 13
[01:37] <cjwatson> IOW, 13 was broken
[01:37] <pitti> ah, indeed
[01:38] <cjwatson> I'll try build-essential + lsb-core + language-support-en + ltsp|ldm*
[01:38] <pitti> cjwatson: what is ldm?
[01:38] <cjwatson> part of ltsp
[01:38] <pitti> I don't see anything I your list that makes me cry 'OMGweneedthat'
[01:38] <pitti> is apache necessary for ltsp? still curious why we have that in the first place
[01:38] <saispo> hi pitti and cjwatson :)
[01:38] <ogra> no
[01:39] <cjwatson> pitti: "# ThomMay; for simple file/web serving -> add zeroconf and we have swish mac os x style :-)"
[01:39] <pitti> seems like a good candidate for 'first against the wall' if we get gutsy space problems
[01:39] <ogra> pitti, it would be a recommends or dep :)
[01:39] <ogra> (if ltsp would need it)
[01:39] <pitti> hi saispo 
[01:40] <thom> heh
[01:40] <thom> cjwatson: good grief
[01:46] <saispo> kernel 2.6.20-15 is the final kernel for feisty release ?
[01:46] <saispo> :)
[01:46] <pochu> saispo: 15.27
[01:47] <saispo> pitti: it's normal in the git tree, when i try to build it i have an error on vboxdrv ?
[01:47] <pygi> pitti, are we back to /dev/hdX with that or?
[01:47] <saispo> source vbox driver are not in git ?
[01:47] <mjg59> pygi: Depends on your chipset
[01:47] <pitti> saispo: -> #ubuntu-kernel, please; I don't  know
[01:47] <saispo> ok
[01:47] <pygi> mjg59, got it, thanks
[01:47] <pitti> pygi: not for me; I got hda->sda change only two weeks ago
[01:47] <pygi> pitti, nod, got that part.
[01:48] <pitti> (yay for enforcing freezes and such)
[01:48] <pygi> siretart, got a couple of news for you, we'll talk later
[01:49] <pygi> laters folks, uni calls
[01:58] <iwj> Freaky, am I testing the wrong dvd here ?  I just installed it and now it is offering me software updates.
[01:59] <iwj> feisty-dvd-i386.iso 20070416 8956582e1e7ba94db14c5a557079fa9a
[01:59] <iwj> Hmm, that's the one from Testing/md5sums.
[01:59] <iwj> It's offering me update-manager{,-core}
[02:00] <Mithrandir> iwj: that is correct.
[02:01] <Mithrandir> we have a small skew there; I decided to ignore it rather than having to respin and retest all the images invalidating the testing we have already done.
[02:02] <iwj> Mithrandir: Fair enough.
[02:09] <iwj> Is the oem prompter supposed to be translated ?
[02:09] <cjwatson> iwj: not yet
[02:09] <cjwatson> (known bug basically)
[02:09] <iwj> OK.
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: wrt bug 42555, I entirely disagree
[02:21] <ubotu> Malone bug 42555 in ubuntu-meta "ubuntu-minimal should support recommends (was: syslog-ng causes ubuntu-minimal to be removed.)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42555
[02:21] <mvo> pitti: why?
[02:22] <pitti> mvo: if people replace random things in ubuntu-minimal with alternatives, then it is not a standard ubuntu system any more, and they should be aware of this
[02:25] <mvo> pitti: this probably comes down to a policy decision. it seems to me like stuff like "vim-tiny" does not necessarily have to be a depends (and the case of syslog can be argued too). but if we do not want that, then the bug should be rejected and nothing should change 
[02:25] <pitti> mvo: right
[02:26] <pitti> mvo: but we e. g. often ask for syslogs in bug reports and such, so I would call the logging rather important
[02:26] <mvo> pitti: the release-upgrader will install ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard if its not installed already by default currently, people who do not want this have to use apt-get (or aptotidue)
[02:26] <pitti> mvo: ah, nice; well, that solves half of my suggestion :)
[02:27] <mvo> pitti: fair enough, I have no strong opinions about this, I'm fine with rejecting it.
[02:27] <mvo> pitti: update-manager will also make sure that a -desktop package is installed
[02:28] <pitti> mvo: if it's uninstallable, what will it do?
[02:29] <mvo> pitti: fail and report the failure (something like "a essential meta-package could not be upgraded")
[02:29] <mvo> pitti: but in the case of the reporter it will just replace syslog-ng with syslog (this is of course displayed before the user performs the upgrade)
[02:30] <pitti> mvo: uh, let's hope they actually read that
[02:31] <mvo> pitti: its listed first and in bold
[02:32] <doko> cjwatson: bug 105701; so there's no way to install with the optimal screen resolution? the alternate installer does it.
[02:32] <ubotu> Malone bug 105701 in gfxboot "screen resolution 1920x1200 not offered" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105701
[02:32] <cjwatson> doko: you mean the X resolution set up by the alternate installer?
[02:33] <doko> cjwatson: yes
[02:33] <cjwatson> doko: and are you trying to use that menu to set the X resolution for desktop boot?
[02:33] <cjwatson> doko: that's not what it does - it passes a vga= option for console framebuffer resolution
[02:34] <cjwatson> it might be best to remove that menu for desktop CDs, I guess
[02:35] <doko> cjwatson: hmm, well removing it would mean that I don't have any option to enter nosplash (avoiding my kernel panic)? maybe I should just buy a new graphics card ...
[02:36] <cjwatson> uh, the VGA/screen-resolution menu does not have anything to do with usplash
[02:36] <cjwatson> I mean that particular menu, not the entire CD boot menu
[02:37] <doko> ok, but my workaround to avoid the kernel panic was to select some resolution except the default one
[02:38] <cjwatson> you should also be able to edit the kernel command line and remove splash from it
[02:38] <mjg59> doko: This is only on the edubuntu DVD?
[02:38] <cjwatson> F6
[02:39] <doko> mjg59: that's the only one I'm currently testing; but I don't think so
[02:39] <mjg59> doko: When did this first start happening?
[02:40] <doko> mjg59: did see it in the beta, but I didn't check/see it before
[02:40] <mjg59> doko: But you only filed the bug last week?
[02:41] <cjwatson> doko: can you get e.g. a digicam photo of the kernel panic?
[02:42] <cjwatson> I doubt the kernel team will be able to do anything at all with a report that just says "the kernel panicked"
[02:42] <doko> rebooting; currently I only did see two keyboard LED's blinking
[02:42] <mjg59> Well, if it's only happening when vesafb isn't loaded, it's probably a usplash/svgalib issue
[02:42] <mjg59> doko: Which platform?
[02:43] <doko> mjg59: amd64, with a Radeon 9600 graphics card
[02:43] <mjg59> And does i386 on the same hardware have the same problem?
[02:44] <doko> mjg59: have to check ...
[02:47] <doko> cjwatson, mjg59: removing the splash option let's the kernel boot; keeping the splash option I only see a black screen, so no chance for a photo
[02:47] <cjwatson> does usplash work properly if you have a serial console attached?
[02:47] <mjg59> Yes
[02:49] <doko> ok, will get a serial cable
[02:51] <pitti> Riddell: kubuntu oem app looks great!
[02:52] <Riddell> pitti: doesn't it just :)  what happens when summer of code goes right
[03:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: sabdfl talking about apport: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6175365.html
[03:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: ugh, it's not enabled any more...
[03:10] <StevenK> "Some versions of Ubuntu come with long-term, five-year support--the first and most recent being 6.04, called Dapper Drake."
[03:10] <jsgotangco> they forgot we delayed it
[03:12] <bhale> i cant imagine it is written as 6.04 almost anywhere
[03:13] <StevenK> It just looks ... wrong.
[03:13] <Treenaks> they probably extrapolated backwards :)
[03:14] <cjwatson> we did talk about it as 6.04 for a while, but I thought we'd edited away most of that
[03:15] <Treenaks> redac^Wedited
[03:15] <StevenK> cjwatson: I can't recall any place off the top of my head that mentions Dapper as 6.04
[03:27] <iwj> Google shows that we referred to it as 6.04 quite a bit before we released it.
[03:27] <cjwatson> yes
[03:28] <cjwatson> though that is an article based on an interview with sabdfl who's well aware of the version number :-) so I assume they got it from Google rather than from him
[03:32] <sharms> I am waiting for a couple releases down the road when we get to "S".  I will be trying to get the name "Sexy Sharms" for that release :)
[03:33] <sabdfl> sharms: you may need to create your own derivative for that :-)
[03:33] <mc44> sharms: only 5 years to wait :)
[03:33] <sharms> ha, well you guys know where to reach me
[03:33] <pitti> sharms: 'sabdfl' 'Shuttleworth' might have his own ideas about 'S' :-P
[03:34] <sabdfl> "the skanky sab" has a certain ring to it
[03:35] <sharms> that sounds like great gimp material :)
[03:35] <Treenaks> sabdfl: or seb ;)
[03:48] <bddebian> Heya
[03:49] <ion_> Hi
[03:50] <bddebian> Hello ion_
[03:51] <pitti> hi ion_ 
[03:54] <micahcowan> sexy sharms... hm... ubuntu-calendar reborn? :)
[03:54] <sharms> I got the pictures taken already, just waiting for the call!
[03:54] <bhale> you're kidding
[03:54] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, I have found a bug in the DVD ISOs (all except Kubuntu): See bug 86893, The DVDs contain python-qt (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/feisty-dvd-i386.list) but do not install it. This prevents the HPLIP GUI tools (like the HP Toolbox) from working out-of-the-box.
[03:54] <ubotu> Malone bug 86893 in ubuntu-meta "[Feisty]  Starting HPLIP Toolbox in DVD edition or after update through internet: No python-qt3, but plenty of space on DVD or internet repository" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86893
[03:54] <bhale> april 1 is past
[03:55] <sharms> bhale: don't underestimate the sexy-ness of my winterhat / beard combo
[03:56] <bhale> i would look but mako is flooding my rss
[03:57] <sharms> haha I just dug up this one: http://www.mindwarp.net/img/sohot.jpg
[03:57] <sharms> and you will only get my humor if you have seen the movie zoolandeer
[04:06] <doko> pitti: was the generation of locales during the installation of language-support-* packages fixed for feisty?
[04:07] <pitti> doko: no, it wasn't; it's pretty tricky to achieve with our current system
[04:07] <doko> pitti: do you have an open report?
[04:07] <pitti> I don't think so
[04:19] <ogra> are we still preparing for RC ? i guess the topic needs an update :)
[04:19] <Keybuk> we're preparing for R
[04:41] <Lure> Riddell: unfair treatment of kubuntu: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/864 ;-)
[04:42] <bhale> ogra: rock
[04:42] <ogra> :)
[04:44] <ogra> Keybuk, do you have an opinion about bug 107252 ?
[04:44] <ubotu> Malone bug 107252 in udev "Group of /dev/fuse not set by /etc/udev/rules.d/45-fuse.rules when using LDAP" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107252
[04:44] <Riddell> Lure: yes, but I've always taken the view of being happy with what we get
[04:44] <Lure> Riddell: that is why I have put ;-)
[04:45] <Keybuk> ogra: I believe I started my opinion in the bug, no?
[04:45] <ogra> ah
[04:45] <ogra> i didnt reload yet, thanks :)
[04:46] <Keybuk> it's a long standing rule that users and groups for system services belong in /etc/passwd and /etc/group, not on LDAP
[04:46] <Keybuk> and that LDAP is for physical users and NPC users
[04:47] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: once-apon-a-time, yeah
[04:47] <ogra> heh
[04:48] <Keybuk> NPC, user account for some automated task or cronjob :p
[05:10] <viviersf> k right
[05:10] <viviersf> if you run ubiquity in debug mode
[05:10] <viviersf> where does the logs go
[05:37] <AlinuxOS> asac, hello, I still get this for Georgian language: http://gnome.inet.ge/alinux/firefox.png
[06:09] <\sh> mdz: do we have a documentation about the desktop notification policy? 
[06:18] <silwol> hi people
[06:18] <silwol> could somebody give me some guide with this spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/easy-network-filesending ?
[06:21] <silwol> I have problems to get the openobex running with the patches needen
[06:21] <silwol> needed
[06:26] <mvo> \sh: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
[06:26] <mvo> highvoltage: we support a priority, but its currently not used
[06:27] <highvoltage> aah
[06:43] <\sh> mvo: thx
[06:48] <ogra> Keybuk, (or any other archive admin who can wipe stuff from the archive) can we react on bug 96374 and just drop it ... i just talked to upstream, a removal bug in debian seems to exists since sarge but the DD didnt react yet
[06:48] <ubotu> Malone bug 96374 in lessdisks "[UNMETDEPS]  lessdisks has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96374
[06:52] <pitti> ogra: I'll take a look at it
[06:53] <ogra> pitti, thanks you will make a potential ne colleague happy :)
[06:53] <ogra> *new
[06:53] <ogra> i just linked the debian bug in LP as well
[06:54] <YokoZar> I have a pbuilder question: the wiki tells me to add universe support by adding a "OTHERMIRROR" line, but isn't that what the "COMPONENTS" line is for?
[06:55] <elmo> any KDE folks around?
[06:58] <ScottK> elmo: Try #kubuntu-devel
[07:02] <pitti_> ogra: because the debian bug is not against ftp.debian.org, thus it's not a removal bug
[07:02] <ogra> aha
[07:03] <pitti_> ogra: is it urgent to kick it out in feisty? after all, not all binaries are uninstallable
[07:03] <ogra> pitti, its obsoleted by ltsp (similar implementation) 
[07:04] <pitti_> ogra: I see
[07:04] <ogra> upstream works only on ltsp and abandoned it 
[07:04] <ogra> i'm fine with keeping the broken stuff if its too much hassle
[07:04] <ogra> but it appears cleaner to remove it
[07:04] <pitti> no, it's not, I just want a good rationale
[07:05] <ogra> ok
[07:07] <pitti> ogra: done
[07:07] <ogra> yay, thanks
[07:08] <pitti> already done
[07:08] <ogra> wow, you rock :)
[07:24] <mdz> \sh_away: desktop notification policy?
[07:55] <seb128> crimsun: around? about bug #64695, how is that a gdm bug?
[07:55] <ubotu> Malone bug 64695 in gdm "KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64695
[07:56] <seb128> crimsun: it's KDE not using gdmflexiserver, which looks like a wishlist or NOTABUG
[07:56] <ogra> wow there are some intresting setups in that bug *g*
[07:57] <ogra> "gdm as the login manager, kde for desktop and ion3 as window manager"
[07:57] <ogra> heh
[07:58] <ion_> :-)
[07:58] <ion_> I used to run ion3 + gnome.
[07:59] <iwj__> heno: How's the state of the iso testing ?  Anywhere in particular you need more help ?
[08:00] <iwj__> (My DSL is down atm but I imagine it will be back soon.)
[08:00] <iwj__> Oops, bounced again.
[08:02] <iwj__> Aha!  Of course!  Now I get the gprs properly working the dsl comes back.
[08:07] <hggdh> seb128: is the launchpad localisation thingy already in place?
[08:07] <hggdh> wrong channel, sorry
[08:08] <iwj> The iso test page looks to be in good shape.
[08:09] <ogra> yeah
[08:09] <ogra> smells like release ready :)
[08:09] <iwj> But it's only Tuesday!
[08:10] <Nafallo> iwj: it's delayed since Thursday? ;-)
[08:10] <ogra> so we can slack two days :)
[08:10] <Nafallo> or did we skip RC?
[08:10] <Treenaks> ogra: ssh! sabdfl might hear you :)
[08:10] <ogra> s/slack/prepare many many good specs for UDS\/UES/
[08:10] <iwj> I think we might be treating this release candidate as a release candidate.
[08:10] <ogra> *g*
[08:10] <sharms> you know what we need?  After a release, have a bug cleaning party where we try to get the number of open bugs down to a certain number
[08:10] <ogra> iwj, hmm, henos mail sounded different 
[08:11] <iwj> ogra: Well, yes.  My dsl died but I didn't notice for an hour because I was too busy writing dpkg triggers emails.
[08:11] <iwj> ogra: Maybe I haven't read that one yet ...
[08:11] <iwj> `We are asking for widespread  testing of the following CD and DVD images which we are considering for Final release:'
[08:11] <Nafallo> iwj: the thing that will update-initramfs one time instead of ten? :-)
[08:11] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000281.html
[08:11] <iwj> Nafallo: Only ten ?  You lucky lucky user :-).
[08:12] <sharms> Like right now we have 27199 open bugs.  If everyone focused on closing bugs, maybe get that down to something more managable?
[08:12] <Nafallo> iwj: haha. I take that as a yes ;-)
[08:12] <iwj> 20070415 was a RC respin, wasn't it ?  I don't suppose it matters what it was intended to be.  Good to see we might be calling it final.
[08:12] <heno> iwj: Edubuntu server, upgrade or DVD would be great
[08:13] <iwj> heno: I'll see what I can do.  I don't have an edubuntu dvd primed.
[08:13] <iwj> But if I start it now I'll definitely have it tomorrow morning.
[08:13] <heno> ok, cool. Server should be faster then
[08:14] <heno> I have the Edubuntu DVDs and can test those
[08:14] <ogra> iwj, you can cat the server/desktop isos together ... that ususally saves 1/3 of rsync time 
[08:14] <iwj> ogra: I've got a normal Ubuntu dvd, which will do I think.
[08:14] <ogra> my DVD is still rsyncing ... i wonder if its done before release 
[08:15] <ogra> running since 10h
[08:15] <sabdfl> Treenaks: YOU CALLED?
[08:15] <Treenaks> sabdfl: it was him -->
[08:15] <ogra> sabdfl, no he just wanted to squeal
[08:15] <mvo> heno: what upgrade is missing?
[08:15] <ogra> :)
[08:16] <heno> mvo: kubuntu amd64 and sparc
[08:16] <Treenaks> so anyway.. large iso download..
[08:16] <mvo> heno: sparc -> no way, kubuntu-amd64 is something I can attack
[08:17] <heno> mvo: yep. The montreal folks are looking at sparc
[08:18] <ogra> iwj, it also seems we commited to the 19th ... http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntudesktop704
[08:18] <iwj> ogra: Oh, yes.
[08:18] <ogra> so what we test *should* be final :) else it would mean some hard nights ahead
[08:19] <iwj> *snort*
[08:19] <Treenaks> and somewhere near the end of the week, I get my new server to poke at feisty+kvm :)
[08:19] <iwj> The Ubuntu stuff (rather than *buntu) is pretty solid now I think.  I didn't see any of the kernel problems myself but I gather it's considered good now too.
[08:19] <iwj> pretty solid> Mind you, the lvm/mdadm/udev nightmare is still a hideous hideous thing.  We must deploy Keybuk's insane workaround-fixup in -updates.
[08:19] <cjwatson> iwj: we are indeed treating this release candidate as a release candidate
[08:20] <cjwatson> (for a change)
[08:20] <iwj> cjwatson: Excellent :-).
[08:20] <cjwatson> maybe we can adjust the translation freeze deadlines a bit so that that becomes the normal course of events
[08:22] <cjwatson> -> "how was feisty for you" session at DS
[08:22] <cjwatson> UDS
[08:30] <heno> cjwatson: several people have also commented to me that they prefer this approach to RC
[08:31] <cjwatson> TTBOMK the main reason we do RC/release that way is because we have to respin for language packs anyway
[08:31] <cjwatson> though also because we rarely manage to cram the last fixes in in time for T-1week
[08:31] <heno> I think Vista was in RC for about 6 months :)
[09:08] <bobrik> hello, what bug status should I assing when "reopening" a bug (it's current status is "Fix released")? "In progress" or "Confirmed"?
[09:08] <pitti> bobrik: 'in progress' hardly makes sense
[09:08] <pitti> bobrik: confirmed, needsinfo, or unconfirmed make sense
[09:10] <bobrik> pitti: ok, thanks
[09:31] <Lutin> doko_: can you have a look at this debdiff please ? http://people.dunnewind.net/lutin/bittorrent_3.4.2-10ubuntu3.debdiff
[09:32] <Seveas> mako, sabdfl, elmo: Don't forget: cc meting in < 30 minutes
[09:39] <mako> Seveas: i know, i need to go get some (late) lunch first.. 
[09:39] <elmo> Seveas: yeah, I know, thanks
[09:40] <holycow> anyone seen burgundavia around?
[09:50] <crimsun> seb128: ok, sounds good
[10:03] <Lutin> well, if a core-dev's around with 5 minutes free, could you please have a look at this debdiff ? http://people.dunnewind.net/lutin/bittorrent_3.4.2-10ubuntu3.debdiff
[10:09] <fabbione> Lutin: is bittorrent on the CD?
[10:09] <Lutin> fabbione: you mean, the ubuntu cd image ?
[10:10] <fabbione> yes
[10:10] <Lutin> fabbione: don't know, how can I check it ?
[10:10] <fabbione> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/feisty-alternate-amd64.list
[10:10] <fabbione> *.list files
[10:11] <fabbione> yeah it is
[10:11] <fabbione> no way it can make feisty
[10:11] <fabbione> you will have to go trough an SRU procedure
[10:11] <fabbione> Lutin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[10:11] <Lutin> fabbione: eek :/. to late for the archive. I thought it was, but I wasn't sure
[10:15] <Lutin> fabbione: I guess, even if btdownloadgui won't even start ?
[10:16] <fabbione> Lutin: yes.. even if.. it's not a release blocker
[10:16] <Lutin> fabbione: sure
[10:16] <fabbione> Lutin: go trough the update procedure
[10:16] <sylpheedClaws> I bet you've been asked this before, but will Feisty still be out on schedule, even with the delays? If no, any ETAs?
[10:17] <Kmos> bug 8360
[10:17] <ubotu> Malone bug 8360 in os-prober "grub menu shows two identical SuSE 9.1 entries" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8360
[10:17] <Kmos> this is fixed?
[10:17] <Lutin> fabbione: okay. thanks :)
[11:08] <YokoZar> oops, I made a folder with a - sign as the first character...how do I rename it?  mv thinks I'm passing an option
[11:08] <mr_pouit> put -- before
[11:09] <mr_pouit> mv -- -file file
[11:09] <mr_pouit> iirc
[11:09] <YokoZar> mr_pouit: ahh, thanks
[11:09] <mr_pouit> np ;)
[11:37] <wasabi_> great. cyrus broked in edgy. *sigh*
[11:44] <ash211> I'm interested in becoming Ubuntu's bug contact for Amarok - https://launchpad.net/amarok/
[11:44] <ash211> how would I go about doing that?
[11:45] <wasabi_> Probably simply subscribe to it in launchpad
[11:51] <ash211> I did that, but I'm looking at being able to change upstream bug reports that don't have a URL
[11:51] <ash211> ubuntu-qa isn't enough
[12:04] <ash211> (cleared up on #kubuntu-devel)