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[n=freeflyi@61.240.193.35] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-122-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:43] isn't it duuku? === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@220.207.23.59] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux_ [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F7635B.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@220.207.23.59] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying__ [n=freeflyi@220.205.0.185] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:53] @schedule US/Chicago [08:53] @schedule Chicago [08:53] Schedule for America/Chicago: 17 Apr 10:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 15:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 10:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 15:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu === mvo [n=egon@p54A67AB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hoora_13 [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-358206eceeed3454] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fanch317 [n=fanch@84.5.2.60] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kkubasik_ [n=kjk38@kjk38-laptop.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === smurfix [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === OZ8AAZ [n=kmyram@90.184.1.224] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nolander_101 [n=nolander@203-59-13-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mjunx-sama [n=matt@adsl-75-4-132-80.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === philwyett [n=philip@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === 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#ubuntu-meeting [03:22] @schedule montreal [03:22] Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu === d1uluv2h8 [i=0@89.33.166.2] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BlueT_ is now known as BlueT_Taipei === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BlueT_Taipei is now known as BlueT_ === Francois [n=fanch@84.5.2.60] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Jozo [i=jozo@nelli.ikonia.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rolando-ve [n=rolando-@190.142.73.34] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dennda [n=dennda@ubuntu/member/dennda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D85E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dennda_ [n=dennda@ubuntu/member/dennda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === arualavi [n=Iva@117.Red-83-33-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Pici [n=pcmacman@global3.saintpetersuh.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-185-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@222.92.36.122] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pochu [n=emilio@ubuntu/member/pochu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kylem [i=kyle@fruit.freedesktop.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pkl_ [n=phillip@lougher.demon.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:00] So, we're all here... [05:00] Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting although it is a bit out-of-date [05:00] kernel-release schedule...uh, released :) [05:01] bug status...stable, but still reviewing for post-release updates [05:02] I think basically we're at a point where we can move on to gutsy topics, and the new kernel tree [05:02] Lets cleanup the wireless stuff. [05:02] well, the tree is going to change considerably [05:02] stock kernel is going to be in ubuntu-2.6.git [05:03] all extra drivers are being moved to a linux-ubuntu-modules package [05:03] the current tree will be used for any updates to Feisty? === Fanch317 [n=fanch@84.5.2.60] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:03] The new tree will only be for Gutsy? [05:03] pkl_: ubuntu-feisty.git is for feisty security and stable release updates [05:03] right [05:04] ubuntu-2.6.git right now is just a clone of linux-2.6.git [05:04] im still mulling over the virtualization infrastructure stuff [05:04] I'll push that to the public kernel.org repo soon [05:04] zul: probably best to hang tight till I get the build infrastructure in place [05:04] BenC: no problem.. === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:05] at this point, I have a local .diff of the delta between ubuntu-feisty.git and upstream code [05:05] I'm merging patches into for-linus branch in preparation for the 2.6.22 merge window with Linus === silwol [n=silwol@teacheradsl245.eduhi.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:06] but we'll be sending out the patches sooner than that to get good feedback [05:06] how much of this delta will be pushed upstream? [05:06] my intention is to get all of it pushed upstream [05:06] Are you differentiating between core code and external drivers? [05:06] the current diff is only ~65k, and a lot of that is toshiba_acpi and DSDT-acpi-initramfs [05:07] Ok [05:07] mjg59: yes [05:07] Len's consistently refused the DSDT-acpi-initramfs patch [05:07] I haven't touched the ubuntu/* stuff yet [05:07] I know, but it's so bogus to do so [05:07] Indeed [05:07] we allow DSDT to be built into the kernel, so there's no argument for not allowing manual DSDT override [05:08] I think it's the initramfs early prep that's ugly, but unavoidable [05:09] Anyway, I'll post my current diff, and keep it updated as I put things in for-linus...need to push that branch out to the ubuntu-2.6.git anyway [05:10] BenC: question... now that you want to have ubuntu-2.6.git basically vanilla and linux-ubuntu-modules... [05:10] what about patches that affects deeply vanilla? [05:10] are we going to fork the code and slam it in ubuntu-modules? [05:10] and if so how to we managed changes to core parts of the kernel that needs to be inline? === kkubasik [n=kjk38@kjk38-laptop.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:10] in severe cases yes...minor updates (like some of the ocfs2 stable patches) we can keep in the vanilla tree [05:11] I'm going to be extremely tight on what goes in there...mostly to keep myself in check [05:11] I've always been pretty liberal with syncing to things like drivers/ata/, and most times for good reason, but we always end up getting bitten with some unforseen bugs [05:12] check-ins for ubuntu-2.6 will most times go through a two-signed-off-by process [05:12] even for me :) [05:13] Signed-off-by: Ben Collins [05:13] exceptions will be things like debian/* updates and trivial s/KERN_ERR/KERN_INFO/ types things [05:13] Signed-off-by: Angie Collins [05:13] lol, busted [05:14] I'll be writing up a more thorough explanation of the gutsy tree this week [05:14] update wiki, etc. === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:14] I assume jgarzik will choose 2.6.22 as the next stable tree. Why wouldn't we track it almost exactly for the next 3 or 4 months? [05:15] rtg: because users will never be satisfied without their tons of extra drivers [05:15] rtg: we'll get it by naturally following linux-2.6, so to avoid delta and crud, we'll just wait for it [05:15] or tons of extra patches to gain half FPS out of glxgears [05:15] rtg: if he syncs for 2.6.22, then we'll get it within 3-4 weeks anyway [05:16] fabbione: I need for gutsy's kernel process to be an excercise in how gutsy+1 will go (since it maybe the next LTS) [05:16] so we may end up saying "Sorry, we can't take in a huge chunk of code for drivers/char/drm/ updates because we need the current code to remain stable" === dennda_ [n=dennda@ubuntu/member/dennda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:17] did you revert the drm stuff for feisty, btw? [05:17] BenC: oh yeah. i get your idea.. that's not the issue... i have the feeling it's going to clash with other kind of requests like .. we need to support my Bluetooth dildo kind of thing [05:17] where as before it was like "Sure, I'll git-pull the entire damn thing" [05:17] kylem: I reverted my initial sync, but then dropped back to 2.6.21's stuff [05:18] ok. [05:18] fabbione: bluetooth dildo == Wishlist...want me to open a bug for you? :) === mbt [n=mbt@c-24-98-32-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:19] BenC: sure thing :) [05:20] so a big portion of the roadmap for gutsy revolves around these changes in the build system, and kernel maint policies [05:20] some of these things will get discusses at UDS because they could benefit from input outside the kernel-team (release managers, archive maint, etc) [05:21] some of them will just get done (ditching kernel-package, O= build system, linux-source split from linux-ubuntu-modules, etc.) [05:23] Ah, another bug area we want to fill is validation testing of the kernel build [05:23] Well, the difficulty is in ensuring that we don't regress in breadth of hardware support [05:23] things like module.alias checking, alias overlaps, etc [05:23] mjg59: exactly [05:24] And sometimes, that's likely to require us to modify core code [05:24] we already have a trivial module checker in feisty that makes sure we don't have modules go missing between builds === juliux_ [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:25] mjg59: I don't think we have any patches in feisty like that...things we have to core code can either be synced upstream now, or if it's major, pushed to linux-ubuntu-modules [05:25] toshiba_acpi is one I think might end up that way [05:25] Well, strictly toshiba_acpi should be rewritten to generate input events [05:26] but the likelyhood of that happening considering the acpi-event patch has been around over a year? :) [05:26] Depends on how much spare time I have [05:27] It's not likely to be merged in its current state [05:27] yeah, I recall the lkml discussions about the current patch [05:28] toshiba_acpi still has a bunch of stuff to be compatible with our own toshset package though [05:28] or someone else could just fix it up... [05:29] toshiba_acpi as it currently stands is a bit of a screaming nightmare [05:29] And the old maintainer doesn't handle it any more [05:29] I should just take over [05:29] guess we should move on... [05:30] feisty security/updates [05:30] we already know what's in git === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:30] are there any patches we knew of in lp right now that need to go into post-release feisty kernel? [05:30] I know we need some more id's moved from ata_piix to piix [05:31] bug #84603 [05:31] Malone bug 84603 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Hard disk I/O randomly freezes when hald is running and optical drive is empty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84603 [05:31] the microsoft keyboard patch is one I can think of [05:31] there's a workaround, so not critical for release [05:31] I'm close to figuring out bug #103768 [05:31] Malone bug 103768 in linux-source-2.6.20 "softmac and network-manager cite unreconcilable differences" [Critical,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103768 [05:32] tifm driver, moving from 0.7 to 0. again (reverted sometime last month) [05:32] rtg: don't forget ubuntu/net/wireless/wext-old.c ...it's the most likely area of the problem [05:32] 0. -> 0.8 [05:32] BenC: I'm leaving tracks all over it trying to figure out the race. [05:33] rtg: compare the code to what's in net/core/wireless.c [05:33] might give some clues [05:33] BenC: the OCFS2 stuff please [05:33] pkl_: did I revert that by mistake when I updated tifm/mmc? [05:33] (for feisty) [05:33] fabbione: In git, so queued [05:33] BenC: yes [05:33] BenC: cool [05:34] pkl_: ok, shoot me later...can you prepare a diff to bring things back? [05:34] BenC: yes [05:34] as of now, any patches proposed for feisty (other than embargoed security patches) should go through kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com [05:37] I think that's all the main topics I had to discuss [05:37] anyone have anything they want to bring up? [05:38] Anyone have comments on the feisty kernel release, how the crisis was handled, addition suggestions for improvement, or suggestions for gutsy kernel, specs, etc... [05:38] ? [05:38] hmm i somehow have one... [05:38] only, wondering it's normally like that at release time :) [05:39] note that this is only my point of view.. [05:39] pkl_: no we have seen far worst at release time [05:39] pkl_: usually not that bad...we always have a crisis, but never 5 in a row :) [05:39] strictly speaking for the kernel side of things [05:39] but i think now that the kernel team is growing, you should be able to handover stuff between members in a slightly easier way [05:39] fabbione is right, we've had some bad release crisis before [05:39] and in case of disasters like this one [05:40] fabbione: that's on my personal agenda...handing off more of my responsibilities [05:40] with a 4 people kernel team, you should be able to cover the 24h without issues [05:40] BenC: yeps.. i am just saying what i think i saw [05:40] it's up to you guys how much you want to weight it === mjg59_ [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:40] i don't expect you to follow my directions ;) [05:40] well, we can't cover 24hours since pkl sleeps late, kyle and I are both EST, and Tim is only 2 hours behind us :) [05:41] BenC: well that's where i want to go.. [05:41] plus tim wakes up early [05:41] if there is a crisis, i think there is the option for people in the team to shift a few hours around [05:41] and cover almost the 24h [05:41] fabbione: might be a good idea for us to spread our during major milestones [05:41] s/our/out/ [05:41] i know that 75% of kernel team is US based but most of the distro team is EU [05:42] beta and RC seem like good points for that [05:42] pkl_: I'm in the process of writing up a document/rant/whatever on past Ubuntu release panics [05:42] that somehow clashes a bit when there are situations like this one [05:42] in which we need to be more in sync than ever [05:42] pkl_: mostly so that people experiencing it for the first time don't feel quite so much like the universe is collapsing [05:42] BenC: yeps.. just to have a Plan B crisis for when it's strictly required. [05:42] BenC: i am not saying you should be 24/7 always [05:42] that would be an insane expectation [05:43] fabbione: bad thing is, most of the team gets up after EU, and because of the flow, kernel team needs to fix things in order for EU folks to get things done(cd runs) [05:43] so it gets bad for people like cjwatson and Mithrandir [05:43] there was a case during this crisis where I ended up trying to hack up test kernels because nobody else was around and I couldn't find the current state [05:43] I'd like that not to happen again [05:43] (and mdz was desperate to get progress) [05:44] cjwatson: maybe a crisis center we can keep updated and concise for things like this [05:44] s/crisis center/wiki page/ [05:44] BenC: yes i do understand that.. nothing stops one of the kernel team to be part of the release process and be able to pre-build CD at the end of the US shift right before EU wakes up [05:44] BenC: lag between kernel team and CD team is several hours, so had it been the other end of the day it would have been OK [05:44] cjwatson: right [05:44] it gets bad when you get stuff done around your early afternoon that needs to be pushed through urgently [05:45] anyway it was just the way i felt it.. nobody should take it personal or feel bad because i know you have still done an amazing job [05:45] we could definitely see about two kernel team members working more evening shifts to do things, and catch the EU folks before handing off to the other kernel team members [05:45] There was a number of times I didn't know what had happen to the kernel overnight (after I'd gone to bed), but was being asked as I was the only kernel team member around. [05:45] pkl_: yeah, in those cases I had a feeling you simply didn't have the information but had to ask [05:46] we should do a better job of handing off info and state, for sure [05:46] next time, I would like things to be arranged such that you do have the information [05:46] post mortum will be a hot topics at UDS :) [05:46] fabbione: it wouldn't hurt to have a session at UDS on rapid change management - how to get from kernel git commit to CDs as fast as possible [05:46] generally, I'm hoping process changes for development cycle will reduce the crisis level altogether, but a good crisis policy is required [05:46] perhaps informally === dennda_ [n=dennda@ubuntu/member/dennda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:47] cjwatson: sounds like an idea.. it would also help for people to be more familiar with git [05:47] as it is now it's only a very few of us [05:47] kylem has offered to lead a git bootcamp at UDS. [05:49] rtg: yes i know.. it would be more interesting to see how many people will actually show up :) [05:49] cjwatson: what can we do about making it easier to get urgent kernel uploads into the buildd's faster? [05:49] git == kernel in some people mind and kernel == evil [05:49] BenC: speaking of distributing responsibilities, would it be possible to distribute the task of preparing feisty bits for upstream merge and setting up the gutsy tree? [05:50] cjwatson: yes, we discussed that at the beginning [05:50] BenC: even if it's really only a one-person task, I think that would be useful to increase the team's familiarity with what we've changed versus upstream [05:50] ok [05:50] I read through but I guess I missed that you were distributing it [05:50] however gutsy tree will be new build system, so it's going to be in flux for a couple weeks [05:51] I think I can push off the upstream merge entirely to someone else, if anyone is interested [05:51] BenC: i strongly reccomends to get a gutsy upload for toolchain soonish and change the build system immediatly after [05:51] BenC: urgent kernel uploads> I think that really comes under Soyuz improvements, which will hopefully be a bit easier now that we have two Soyuz hackers again [05:51] BenC: or at least coordinate that with doko [05:51] fabbione: how about I just get you a linux-libc-dev upload out of the tree, no kernel images [05:51] significant publisher speed improvements are due to land with PPA [05:51] BenC: it's an option.. but talk to doko to make sure it's ok with him [05:52] BenC: glibc should be fine with the current running kernels on the buildd.. i am not sure about all arches tho === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:52] cjwatson: do you think ppa will be a good alternative to the way we were doing things with test kernels (build locally, upload to rookery)? [05:52] BenC: I would appreate it if the kernel headers could stay stable until new glibc/binutils/gcc are in the archive. [05:52] s/appreate/appreciate/ [05:53] doko: so you don't want me to upload anything yet? [05:53] BenC: I think the immediate intention is more for things that aren't speed-critical [05:53] it'll build from scratch every time, so it isn't going to get near the performance of a ccached incremental build [05:54] BenC: well, the current toolchain updates are tested; and it's likely that headers break on some architecture. AFAIK the archive isn't open yet. [05:54] doko: aren't we supposed to bootstrap the toolchain starting from kernel headers? or do you want to change that later? [05:54] cjwatson: maybe a dedicated machine for this sort of thing would be nice...I'm not sure the whole team can do fast build/upload cycles like we were doing [05:54] doko: ok [05:54] (PPA => Personal Package Archives, basically per-person apt archives with uploaders and such attached implemented in Launchpad) [05:54] fabbione: we never did a full bootstrap; I did put that on the UDS agenda [05:55] BenC: let's talk about this more on the phone in a bit, but one idea would be to ensure that each of you has access to the others' fast personal build machines [05:55] doko: Catch be out-of-band for more discussion, I want to make sure I'm not blocking you [05:55] cjwatson: ok [05:55] we're just about out of time [05:55] datacentre hosting is good for most of the distro team, but for kernel development having the box locally is pretty valuable [05:56] any last minute comments? [05:56] LOVE YA! [05:57] kylem, pkl, rtg: Congrats on your guys first release cycle nearly at an end...I know it was rough, but everyone did a great job [05:57] fabbione: DITTO! [05:57] have a good week everyone, party on Thursday === xblackfire [i=c83e4272@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-410d29a828f3e584] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kylem [i=kyle@fruit.freedesktop.org] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === lmierzej [n=lmierzej@drc242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === d1uluv2h8 [i=0@89.33.166.2] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D85E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU === tomsku [n=tomsku@dsl-tregw3-fe4ddf00-223.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fanch317 [n=fanch@84.5.2.60] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hjmf [n=hjmf@6.Red-88-25-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === TomaszD_ [n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === silwol [n=silwol@teacheradsl245.eduhi.at] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Fold"] === kkubasik [n=kjk38@kjk38-laptop.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === CyberKing [n=Ekushey@fedora/Ekushey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kkubasik [n=kjk38@kjk38-laptop.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === kkubasik [n=kjk38@kjk38-laptop.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === effie_jayx [n=l3ap@190.37.175.250] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === emonkey [n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-185-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:05] hi === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:07] hi ranf, you're early === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [08:09] Seveas, yea I know, get a better seat that way [08:10] @schedule New_York [08:10] Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU === CyberKing is now known as info === info [n=Ekushey@208.110.21.195] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D85E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:21] @schedule Mars [08:22] @schedule berlien [08:22] @schedule berlin [08:22] Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 22:00: MOTU [08:22] Mars ? [08:22] corner case test [08:22] Seveas, thats a serious bug ... we dont have Mars TZs === ogra checks if his personal TZ exists [08:23] @schedule atlantis [08:23] bah [08:24] ranf, gt it added to pytz and ubotu supports it :p [08:24] @schedule posixrules [08:24] Schedule for posixrules: 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU [08:26] Seveas, pytz is a package? [08:27] !info python-tz [08:27] python-tz: Python version of the Olson timezone database. In component main, is extra. Version 2006g-1 (edgy), package size 181 kB, installed size 3420 kB [08:28] k === bkingx [n=bkingx@adsl-072-151-055-210.sip.bgk.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Czessi-m [n=Czessi-m@dslb-088-073-035-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:51] emonkey, dude, adding yourself one hour before the meeting is annoying... [08:51] Seveas: the meeting is in one hour? [08:51] better be prepared ;) [08:51] @now [08:51] Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 18:51:44 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 8 minutes [08:51] sacater, 8 minutes more ;) [08:51] :P [08:52] are you going to be doing the membership thing [08:52] :o [08:52] depends on what you mean with 'doing the membership thing' [08:52] I'll be poking at buttons in launchpad === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-094-188.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:54] Seveas, sorry, if it's better I can do it the next time [08:54] no worry for me [08:54] emonkey, no, it's perfctly fine. It just means CC people can never be completely prepared when they come to the meting [08:54] emonkey, but I'm pretty sure your membership application will be dealt with quickly :) [08:55] :o === sacater is here for membership [08:55] Seveas, what do you think about to froze the agenda site a few days befor the meeting? [08:55] I hope I can answer in reasonable time, unfortunately my english isn't the best [08:55] juliux, I've been thinking about that === kkubasik is here for membership as well ;) [08:55] I'm a bit slow [08:56] Seveas, i personal don't check the agenda site every day, so it would be better if the topics are three or four days bevor the meeting fix [08:56] Seveas: shall i start bringing my 'fanclub' in === welp is already 'in' [08:57] ywp [08:57] i can see [08:57] Seveas, should i add this to the topic for today;) [08:57] s/topic/agenda [08:58] juliux, neh [08:58] Seveas, just joking;) [08:58] wow, busy pre-meeting noise in here :) [08:59] oh yes [08:59] ogra, europe is now utc+2 and not +1 ;) [08:59] ogra, an hour of it ;) [08:59] @time [08:59] Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 18:59:41 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 0 minutes [08:59] heh === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === geser [i=mb@ubuntu/member/geser] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === philwyett [n=philip@bb-87-81-146-45.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mattva01 [n=mgallagh@ffzrouter.yorktown.arlington.k12.va.us] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:09] emonkey, you didn't document your ubuntu contributions on your wikipage [09:09] emonkey, you *must* do that before applying otherwise the meetings will take far too long [09:10] (same goes for a few other candidates for today, but they are not here yet) === ScottK is here (just in case you meant me). === somerville32 [n=somervil@ubuntu/member/somerville32] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:11] cept me :) [09:11] ScottK, I didn't :) [09:11] Great. Thanks. === bkingx is here for membership [09:12] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinKubasik [09:12] im assuming that part comes later, but yeah [09:12] bkingx, are there other kentucky members here to cheer for you? [09:12] kkubasik, this is just my pre-meeting check :) === Zuph [n=CoOp_2@a66628-coop2.burhans.louisville.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:12] haha, sounds good ;) [09:13] Seveas: etank and Zuph are here [09:13] I can imagine that these aren't always the fastest things [09:13] bkingx, good [09:13] kkubasik, they tend to take long if people come unprepared (like emonkey) === ompaul [n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:13] yeah [09:13] Seveas: I am expecting atopance and possibly Vorian as well [09:13] bkingx, that's quite a fanclub [09:13] good! [09:14] yay bkingx === kkubasik is a lonely loser :( [09:14] ;) [09:14] ;) [09:15] yay kkubasik [09:15] hhehe weee!!!! [09:15] My neck hurts. === jussi01 [n=jussi@dyn3-82-128-187-225.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:17] Seveas: want to perform a pre-meeting check on me? [09:17] sacater, already did. You documented things :) [09:17] COuld be fleshed out a bit, but should probably do [09:17] (Not saying anything about the quality of contributions here, just the documnting bit) [09:18] Seveas: i dont do documenting.... [09:19] i do support tracking mainly [09:19] tiny bit of packaging... [09:19] sacater: I presume he means wiki entry etc [09:19] sacater, documenting your contributions I mean ;) [09:19] and a few bug reports === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:19] oh [09:19] okies [09:19] btw, take a look at this before the meeting, should make you laugh if you like stand-up comedy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OUykE3Uvb0&NR=1 === Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:20] makes me smile :P [09:20] morning all ;-) [09:20] Nafallo: ello === yeager [n=yeager@213.132.115.138] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:21] yeager, are you serious? [09:21] adding yourself 40 minutes before meeting and not having anything on your wikipage [09:21] Please come prepared! [09:21] Seveas: i'm editing my wiki page now [09:22] yeager: took me a day or 2 to prepare my mine [09:22] im 14, my mind is limited... [09:22] yeager, you could give the people on the CC some time to prepare for the meeting instead of last-minute rushing [09:22] Seveas, pls let me add "shoudl the cc agend be frozen 4 days befor the meeting?" to the agend for today [09:22] yeager has a hell of a lot of karma [09:22] juliux, yeah.... [09:22] let's do that === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:23] somerville32, that doesn't matter: unprepared is unprepared [09:23] do those on the CC even read before the meeting starts? ;) [09:23] Seveas: Just making an observation ;] [09:23] apokryphos, some of them do [09:23] and I like to b prepared as well [09:24] I think I added myself 5 minutes before the meeting when I was approved though :-P [09:24] updated my wiki page now [09:24] somerville32, did you check every day the meeting agend? i check the agenda somedays befor the meeting and then i deciced if i will join the meeting or not [09:24] yeager, that page still says nothing [09:24] juliux, I'm subscribed to the page. I get notified everytime someone edits it. [09:25] yeager: you forgot ubuntu-nordic, and that you are the one doing most of the Swedish translations in both Ubuntu and Debian. [09:25] somerville32, hm ok, i stoped subscribing every wikipage and mailinglist [09:25] yeager, take a look at for instance brian kings page, or micah cowans.... [09:25] somerville32: a lot of extra time? :P [09:26] yeager: and that you've been giving support in the swedish channel since ages :-) [09:26] apokryphos, Indeed! Did you expect me to get back to work quickly after spending two months in the hospital? lol :P === ausimage [n=ausimage@ubuntu/member/ausimage] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:26] somerville32: how've you been? === Malou [n=chatzill@c83-249-196-147.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:27] apokryphos, I think I'm doin' a lot better but only time will tell, I guess. : ) [09:27] cool =) [09:27] Nafallo: i don't know how much information I should put on that page.. i'm just a poor translator :) [09:27] somerville32, what do you mean with your agenda item? [09:27] yeager: just say for who and stuff [09:27] yeager: you can get an idea by looking at others' pages [09:27] yeager: EVERYTHING! ;-) === lbm [n=lbm@195.181.54.128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === i0h- [n=i0h@me-19-112-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:29] yeager: reporting bugs, running development versions... :-) [09:29] Seveas: sabdfl asked me to work with salgado to ensure that lp infrastructure was in place for the CC vote. [09:29] somerville32, aight === micahcowan started working on his wiki page the moment he thought he might someday apply for membership (otherwise, it'd be hell to try to remember everything) [09:30] i'm thinking of applying for membership [09:30] micahcowan, you've been doing things for ages, about time you applied :) [09:30] Dont think I've done enough though === hagi [n=hagi@adsl-89-217-94-62.adslplus.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ScatterBrain [n=kcollins@64.191.130.42] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pygi [n=mario@78-0-18-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:33] Seveas, have I? :) ...I never really knew how much was "enough", and wanted to be on the safe side. [09:33] micahcowan, that's the good approach at this, makes our lif much easier [09:33] micahcowan: like me then :-) [09:33] :) [09:33] I don't even remember when I applied :-P [09:33] Nafallo, btw: make sure you put your cheers on yeagers wikipage :) [09:34] Seveas: oh? on the wiki those days? :-) [09:34] Nafallo, it helps [09:34] Seveas: glad you told me :-) [09:34] Nafallo, and it provides some page filling for him ;) === kozz [i=kozz@81-232-134-52-no22.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Devaux [i=roger@91.138.22.160] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sputnik [n=sputnik@dslb-088-070-072-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:34] Hi there [09:34] Seveas: hehe :-) [09:34] seriously need a smoke.. [09:34] 'Translation karma: insane' should be enough for membership, but propely documented is better [09:35] yeager: then I grab your wiki... ;-) [09:35] heh [09:35] Seveas: lol [09:35] Oh, holy &!*, that /is/ a huluvalot of karma. [09:35] I need my Ubuntu password :-P [09:35] micahcowan, it is [09:35] I guess I have bug-triage-ing karma [09:35] Is Mark here? [09:35] 8o) [09:35] ;) [09:35] I hope my other PC likes me today, since it's in an encrypted file :-P [09:36] Devaux, not yet === Seveas sends Bruce Schneier to Nafallo's aid === micahcowan thinks yeager found the "epic launchpad activity of +32k karma" === netztier [n=bnfh@178.13.78.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === deep [n=deep@c-a52a71d5.017-19-626c671.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:36] Seveas: the PC won't even start :-P [09:36] jk :) === mindspin [n=mindspin@p54B2705F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:36] Nafallo, :p [09:36] I've lost a bunch of karma points. Dunno where they hide. === mah [n=marcel@p54855AF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:37] they expire with time [09:37] ranf, a karma of 70 is not too impressive [09:37] kkubasik, must be smth. new then? [09:37] I wanna say half-lifed, just because it would be cool and fun [09:37] Seveas, better then nothing;) [09:37] ranf, the scale has changed /drastically/, from time to time, too. I think mine used to be a lot closer to yeager's at one point (but his would've registered as a couple mil, then, if I'm even right that the scale was like that) [09:37] juliux, true [09:37] Seveas, and karam is unfair there is no karma for no tech things [09:37] ranf: ? I don't follow [09:38] juliux, are you going to cheer for rang for his ubuntu-de contributions? [09:38] juliux, that's why we want properly documented contributions and look at all of them [09:38] Yeah, it's a little sad to break my butt with gdb and submit a debdiff, and see the karma go up by a pretty dang small amount :) [09:38] Seveas, no i wasn't it [09:38]