[12:12] <tsmithe> hi. i attached a debdiff to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/106588 (comment 6) to allow evolution to start on systems without esound. i was wondering if this could be included in feisty?
[12:13] <tsmithe> i will at some point look further into the matter... why does evolution seem to wait on an orbit socket forever unless esound works?
[12:13] <tsmithe> is it too late?
[12:14] <goedson> cjwatson: I have some changes to suggest for Brazilian Portuguese translation of ubiquity. What should I do?
[12:14] <elmo> tsmithe: IANAUD but evolution is on the CD, I very much doubt you're going to get that updated at this stage, it'll need to be a SRU
[12:15] <tsmithe> ah yes. of course
[12:15] <tsmithe> i can't see the release being delayed for that
[12:17] <vdepizzol> cjwatson, ping
[12:18] <grayman> hrm
[12:19] <grayman> what's up with Vesa. It seems to be a lot of troubles
[12:21] <grayman> apparently it turns off the monitor when using geforce FX 5200(tried only on it). Is it a known issue or it's just my pc?
[12:22] <kylem> "turns off the monitor"?
[12:22] <grayman> yes litterally
[12:22] <grayman> like it goes black when X loading and the status led showing it on stand by
[12:23] <grayman> but it's fixed when you change the driver to nv
[12:24] <grayman> or "fixed"
[12:34] <Teremd> doko: ping
[02:18] <Burgundavia> fabbione: are you around?
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> awwh.  No Ubuntu packs smaller than 200?
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> 10 CDs I can hold onto, easily accessible and i can part with a few if needed; the extra 190 I need to do something with them other than let them bitrot for 6 months before they get replaced.
[05:07] <fabbione> Burgundavia: i am now
[06:29] <Burgundavia> fabbione: can you fill in the sparc stuff on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/7%2e04Tour
[06:29] <Burgundavia> ?
[06:30] <fabbione> Burgundavia: isn't the doc team supposed to do that?
[06:30] <Burgundavia> fabbione: the marketing team, actually, but we have no idea about the sparc stuff, as none of us use it
[06:30] <Burgundavia> fabbione: I only need 1 or 2 sentences
[06:32] <fabbione> Burgundavia: very short, so expand it sensibly: availability of openssh server in the installer on request...
[06:33] <fabbione> Burgundavia: silo-installer improved to recognize other installed OS'es 
[06:33] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[06:33] <fabbione> Burgundavia: i think as general hit it should be enough
[06:34] <jdong> are you sure we don't need (tm) thingies all around AOL to not be sued? ;-)
[06:35] <Burgundavia> jdong: where abouts?
[06:35] <jdong> Burgundavia: on the tour
[06:35] <Burgundavia> naw, not so much of a big deal
[06:35] <jdong> ok
[06:36] <Burgundavia> there is usually a footer about trademarks
[06:37] <Burgundavia> fabbione: is the title correct?
[06:43] <fabbione> Installer for Sparc64 ?
[06:43] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:43] <fabbione> i guess so
[06:44] <fabbione> yeah it's ok
[06:44] <fabbione> bbl
[07:39] <pitti> Good morning
[07:40] <ion_> Hi
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58] <ion_> Hi.
[07:58] <dholbach> hi ion_
[08:17] <Kagou> morning
[08:24] <pitti> hi Kagou 
[08:28] <Kagou> hey pitti 
[10:07] <pitti> heno, Mithrandir: for coordination, I'll do the kubuntu amd64 edgy->feisty upgrade test now (I stole some quota from my fiancee :) )
[10:08] <heno> pitti: well done, thanks :)
[10:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: cheers.
[10:13] <mvo> can someone translate " no foi possvel criar `./usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2': Arquivo ou diretrio inexistente" for me?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> ./usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2, no such file or directory.
[10:14] <Mithrandir> the first bit, I'm not sure about.
[10:15] <lifeless> not ... possible ...
[10:15] <mvo> thanks, that helps already
[10:15] <Mithrandir> "it was not possible to create"
[10:15] <Mithrandir> according to babelfish
[10:15] <dholbach> "it was not possible to create `./usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 ': Archive or inexistent directory"
[10:15] <lifeless> god bless the fish
[10:16] <dholbach> gnome-translate is your friend :)
[10:16] <mvo> dholbach: I did not know about this one, I will try it out now
[10:22] <mvo> dholbach: g-t is quite nice, the gui needs a bit of love though
[10:43] <seb128> mvo: g-t?
[10:43] <mvo> seb128: gnome-translate
[10:43] <seb128> ah, ok
[10:56] <ogra> seb128, ugh, the patch you mention in bug 105836 is a horrible hack
[10:56] <seb128> ogra: I did mention a patch?
[10:56] <seb128> what bug is that, launchpad is b0rked
[10:56] <ogra> yeah, i just noticed
[10:56] <ogra> black screen not black in gss
[10:57] <seb128> that's not a patch, that's what has been commited upstream some months ago
[10:57] <ogra> you mentioned a gnome bug with a patch for pixmap themes
[10:57] <seb128> I mentionned there was a bug upstream which has been closed
[10:57] <seb128> well, I'm just triaging some gnome-screensaver bugs to help you
[10:57] <seb128> don't shoot the messenger :p
[10:58] <mvo> seb128: #95631 looks like a pango race again, its busted during the upgrade: "Pango-WARNING **: /usr/lib/pango/1.4.0/modules/pango-basic-fc.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory at " apparently. 
[10:58] <mvo> this is when debconf-gnome tries to start its interface
[10:58] <seb128> mvo: any idea on how to workaround it?
[10:59] <seb128> I'm starting to think we should link staticly the upgrade tools
[10:59] <mvo> seb128: not right now, didn't we fix that last release?
[10:59] <ogra> seb128, thanks for that, i didnt want to argue with you indeed ;) but upstreams patch just removes the pixmap, while the problem seems to be that the embedded X window of the screensaver doesnt show up ...
[10:59] <mvo> seb128: another idea would be to run the upgrade from the live-cd or something like this. so that the upgrade happens, but does not change the environement under itself
[10:59] <ogra> so after removing the pixmaps users see a plain gtk window background instead of a black screen
[11:02] <seb128> ogra: hum, k
[11:02] <seb128> mvo: what upgrade is the bug about?
[11:02] <seb128> mvo: launchpad is sort of broken, it's 6.10 to 7.04?
[11:02] <mvo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+bug/95631
[11:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 95631 in update-manager "postfix released (was. dist-upgrade failure (edgy->feisty) - SystemError from cache.commit(): installArchives() failed)" [High,Needs info]  
[11:02] <seb128> ah, working again
[11:03] <mvo> seb128: I noticed LP breakage too. i try to reproduce it now
[11:03] <seb128> they fixed lp, that was quick ;)
[11:04] <seb128> mvo: yeah, we workarounded the bug previous cycle by ship a static pango config with the package under /var IIRC
[11:04] <mvo> seb128: yep - do we no longer do that?
[11:05] <seb128> not sure, the Debian package has structure changes as well
[11:05] <seb128> it might have been dropped during the merge
[11:05] <seb128> or it didn't apply correctly
[11:05] <seb128> I think I talked to you about it some months ago
[11:05] <mvo> seb128: ok, I check the source
[11:05] <seb128> "  * Drop the old module files handling.
[11:05] <seb128>     - Drop update-pango-modules and man pages.
[11:05] <seb128>     - Conflict with packages using update-pango-modules in the past, i.e.
[11:05] <seb128>       pango-libthai (<< 0.1.6-2).
[11:05] <seb128>     - Delete /etc/pango/pango.modules on upgrades of libpango1.0-common."
[11:05] <seb128> they did that
[11:08] <mdz> tepsipakki: are you still editing FeistyKnownIssues?
[11:09] <mdz> seb128: I did a test in vmware of an upgrade from 6.10+updates to 7.04 with workrave running, and couldn't reproduce my bug
[11:10] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I'm investigating
[11:10] <seb128> mdz: ok, dunno what was causing it, it might have been fixed or not easy to trigger
[11:10] <pitti> mvo: will /cdrom/cdromupgrade.sh work for Kubuntu, too?
[11:11] <mvo> pitti: it should
[11:11] <pitti> mvo: I just installed a stock Kubuntu edgy; I guess I need to get some edgy-updates packages before?
[11:12] <mdz> pitti: yes, update-manager
[11:12] <pitti> mvo: oh, the script calls 'gksu'
[11:12] <mvo> pitti: yes, at least u-m and the kde backport for konsole/kdelibs/kdebase
[11:13] <pitti> right, I see
[11:13] <mvo> pitti: please run it with sudo, this is whats in the upgrade notes 
[11:14] <mvo> pitti: kubuntu has no "distro-cd detected" prompt yet, it needs to be started manual
[11:20] <pitti> Riddell: how can I call adept-updater to update to feisty? some hidden --devel-release option?
[11:22] <Arby> pitti: do you mean this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades?
[11:23] <pitti> Arby: *erk*
[11:23] <Arby> I could be mistaken
[11:23] <pitti> seems not; thank you
[11:24] <pitti> I hoped that was some obsolete info, now that we have the new adept in edgy-updates
[11:25] <Arby> it does look a little nasty
[11:25] <pitti> no wonder that people just use the good old apt-get dist-upgrade :)
[11:26] <Arby> indeed
[11:26] <Arby> something for gutsy maybe
[11:28] <Riddell> pitti: in feisty there's a hidden switch to call the upgrade tool but not in edgy
[11:32] <pitti> Riddell: ah, good to know
[11:33] <ogra> stratus, ping
[12:09] <pygi> hello folks
[12:11] <ogra> mvo: <pips1> I'm getting a screen refresh of GDM on the server's monitor when I'm logged in on the client and I change the default system language... oh, well it actually makes sense, because the options in GDM will change
[12:11] <pygi> hi pitti ^_^
[12:11] <ogra> mvo, is there anything in the lang selector that causes gdm to restart ???
[12:11] <ajmitch> hi pygi, pitti 
[12:11] <mvo> ogra: yes
[12:11] <ogra> hi ajmitch pygi pitti 
[12:11] <ogra> :)
[12:11] <mvo> ogra: not restart, reload
[12:11] <pitti> ogra: yes, langpacks have a gdm reload AFAIR
[12:11] <pygi> hi ogra ajmitch :)
[12:11] <ogra> mvo, ah, ok fine then 
[12:11] <pitti> ogra: otherwise gdm does not show new locales
[12:12] <ajmitch> hey ogra, how's it going? :)
[12:12] <mvo> ogra: this is needed so that it picks up the new language
[12:12] <mvo> s
[12:12] <pygi> ha, mvo :)
[12:12] <pygi> hi
[12:13] <ogra> mvo, fine with me, i just wanted to know if its wanted :)
[12:13] <mvo> :)
[12:13] <mvo> hey pygi
[12:13] <pygi> mvo, we've got java bindings for libburnia libs :P
[12:14] <ogra> ajmitch, fine, thanks ...
[12:15] <mvo> pygi: nice
[12:15] <pygi> I do have to commit them tho, and they are not finished
[12:15] <mdz> Riddell: so this is really the upgrade procedure for Kubuntu? manually downloading the upgrade tarball?
[12:15] <pygi> (not  my work, I don't speak java-ish languages)
[12:15] <mdz> Riddell: I thought we  backported a new adept in order to make this work more like Ubuntu
[12:16] <pitti> well, the dist-upgrade itself is fine, it's just lacking the equivalent of u-m's -d option
[12:22] <mdz> pitti: oh, so when the final release is out, it will happen automagically?
[12:22] <mdz> pitti: -d only tells update-manager to consider development releases as well as stable ones
[12:22] <mvo> mdz: that is my understanding, a wizard dialog will appear when the user clicks "check"
[12:22] <pitti> mdz: automatically> I don't knwo
[12:23] <pitti> since I could not use adept-notifier for that, the recipe requires to start the dist-upgrader directly without going through adept
[12:23] <mvo> mdz: and that was how it worked in -proposed. Riddell said earlier that the -d switch was added for feisty, but not backported as the version in -proposed defaulted to -devel
[12:25] <pitti> ogra: do you have someone to test edubuntu netboot?
[12:27] <mdz> mvo: ok
[12:27] <mdz> I've updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades accordingly
[12:27] <Riddell> mdz: no, it'll prompt to upgrade once http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release is updated
[12:28] <mdz> Riddell: please confirm that FeistyUpgrades is correct now (for final)
[12:28] <mdz> mvo: likewise
[12:30] <Riddell> editing a small change
[12:30] <Riddell> oh, mvo is already editing
[12:30] <mvo> yes
[12:32] <mvo> Riddell: I'm done
[12:32] <seb128> mdz: do you think that bug #103246 should be listed on FeistyKnownIssues?
[12:32] <ubotu> Malone bug 103246 in gnome-compiz-manager "Gnome-compiz-manager thrusts itself into .gnomerc" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103246
[12:32] <mvo> mdz: a small correction, its not needed to click on check
[12:34] <mc44> mvo: but what if your update manager is not up to date?
[12:37] <mvo> mc44: when u-m starts it will check for a new release autoamatically (its a very small file that is checked)
[12:38] <mc44> mvo: oh just someone had the authentication problem due to not having an up to date u-m
[12:39] <mvo> mc44: right, sorry for that, but there is little we can do (beside pointing out that the feisty-updates should be installed prior to the upgrade)
[12:41] <StevenK> mvo: s/feisty/edgy/ surely?
[12:41] <mvo> StevenK: of course
[12:41] <mc44> mvo: sure just wondered if that should be pointed out in FeistyUpgrades document
[12:41] <mc44> mvo: and now i see it is
[12:41] <mc44> sorry :)
[12:42] <mvo> :)
[12:51] <ogra> pitti, i have to setup a netboot server on my ppc but i need my laptop i could use as client for the meeting in 1h ... i'll do one after the meeting
[12:52] <pitti> ogra: I'm testing edubuntu/amd64 netboot now
[12:53] <ogra> ok, i'll do i386 then in about 2h
[12:53] <pitti> ogra: I don't know at all how to test the installed system, but I can probably check if it installs correctly
[12:53] <ogra> right
[12:53] <mdz> mc44: that's documented in the release notes as well
[12:53] <pitti> ogra: I just finished jigdo'ing the server CD
[12:58] <Keybuk> mvo: could you give me some dummy instructions for an edgy user who may not have updates installed
[12:58] <Keybuk> how do they ensure that updates are enabled, and then install them?
[01:05] <ogra> ogra2@edubuntu:~$ eject
[01:05] <ogra> dm_task_set_name: Device /dev/mapper/hda3 not found
[01:05] <ogra> ^^^ whats that ?
[01:06] <Treenaks> libdevmapper
[01:06] <ogra> well, i guessed that it has to do with devmapper ... but why do i get it on my up to date feisty ?
[01:07] <ogra> ogra2@edubuntu:~$ ls /dev/mapper/hda3 
[01:07] <ogra> /dev/mapper/hda3
[01:07] <ogra> it seems to exists
[01:07] <SoftIce> hi, what has happend to vserver support in feisty
[01:07] <SoftIce> has that dev stopped?
[01:08] <SoftIce> will their be vserver kernels, etc and up to date vserver packages? eg: util-vserver?
[01:08] <Keybuk> evms
[01:08] <Keybuk> ogra: remove that :p
[01:09] <Treenaks> Keybuk: evms is officially Bad?
[01:09] <ogra> ah, k seems i pay the price for not using u-m here 
[01:09] <siretart> Keybuk: hey, evms is supported since warty after all!
[01:09] <Keybuk> Treenaks: it's annoying, always has been
[01:09] <siretart> Treenaks: I wouldn't consider it bad, rather undermaintained in ubuntu
[01:09] <Keybuk> that's what makes the /dev/mapper/* versions of all your drives
[01:10] <Keybuk> sometimes util-linuxness likes to use those instead of the real ones
[01:11] <siretart> btw, is there a timeline for specs for Sevilla?
[01:11] <siretart> ogra: this could improve with dpkg-trigger
[01:11] <ogra> siretart, not for single package removals though
[01:13] <siretart> that's right. well, in fact, you could use dpkg --suppress-triggers, I suppose
[01:13] <ogra> well, then i would still have it in the initrmafs ...
[01:14] <siretart> choose your poison. right
[01:14] <ogra> the regeneration is needed ... triggers are only helpful for mass installations that all have similar postinst stuff
[01:15] <siretart> ogra: do you happen to know the deadline for specs for gutsy?
[01:15] <ogra> nope ... 
[01:15] <siretart> ah, ok, so it hasn't been announced yet. good (for me)
[01:16] <mneptok> siretart: 5 minutes before you finish >:)
[01:16] <ogra> there will surely be a mail soon
[01:16] <siretart> mneptok: excellent, so I have a lot of time left ;)
[01:16] <mneptok> siretart: the universe can be very patient as it waits to screw you over, yes ;)
[01:16] <mvo> Keybuk: after lunch?
[01:17] <mvo> Keybuk: how detailed do you want it? shall I do it on the wiki?
[01:17] <Keybuk> mvo: sure
[01:17] <Keybuk> yes to the wiki
[01:20] <mvo> Keybuk: ok, I will do that right after lunch
[01:31] <Riddell> seb128: two evoluation menu entries known?
[01:31] <Riddell> s/a//
[01:33] <Riddell> mm, bug 13845
[01:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 13845 in evolution "evolution has two icons in applications menu" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13845
[01:42] <ogra> Riddell, they (used to) start two different parts of the app ...
[01:43] <siretart> Mithrandir: I just uploaded a fix for rdesktop bug #104332 - upstream is sitting next to me and it really seems a very good idea to have that patch in for feisty
[01:43] <ubotu> Malone bug 104332 in rdesktop "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104332
[01:44] <Mithrandir> siretart: -updates;
[01:44] <siretart> oh. ok. please reject my upload then
[01:44] <siretart> I reupload in a sek
[01:45] <Mithrandir> -updates isn't open yet, and you need to follow the normal SRU procedure.
[01:45] <siretart> oh. I see
[01:45] <siretart> k
[01:45] <siretart> I update the bugreport then
[01:45] <Keybuk> we need something stronger than "frozen" for this point in the release process
[01:45] <Keybuk> "buried in concrete" ?
[01:46] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: "set in stone"
[01:46] <elmo> "srsly, no"
[01:46] <seb128> Riddell: yes, there is one mailer specific and one for office, that's not ideal though but not a new bug
[01:47] <StevenK> "frozen", after which we have "ftpd on upload.u.c killed"
[01:47] <seb128> Mithrandir: do you know when -updates will open?
[01:47] <Keybuk> this building gets strange vibrations
[01:47] <siretart> how about opening -updates earlier, like, before releasing? we don't necesarily need to accept stuff yet, but at least the packages are in some queue
[01:47] <cjwatson> seb128: immediately upon release
[01:48] <seb128> ok
[01:48] <Keybuk> oh, I see, a wacking great big helicopter flew past
[01:48] <cjwatson> actually I thought you could already upload to -proposed and it would be queued
[01:48] <cjwatson> ICBW
[01:48] <siretart> cjwatson: shall I try with rdesktop? ;)
[01:48] <cjwatson> but if it's not, then flipping feisty to CURRENT in LP will be enough
[01:48] <cjwatson> siretart: sure, why not
[01:48] <siretart> on my way
[01:49] <Mithrandir> seb128: once we release.
[01:49] <Mithrandir> siretart: that requires changing soyuz, something we'd like to not do at this point.  But yes, the plan is to have -updates and friends open a week or so before for gutsy.
[01:50] <siretart> ok, reuploaded to feisty-updates for testing if it gets queued
[01:50] <siretart> Mithrandir: I agree
[01:53] <Saied> all, hi
[01:53] <Saied> I have problem with kde-i18n-fa package in KDE 3.5.6
[01:54] <Saied> i have upgraded to kubuntu feisty
[01:54] <Saied> and i have installed kde-i18n-fa package for gui translation of KDE to persian language
[01:55] <cjwatson> hmm, lamp-server task installation fails on the Ubuntu amd64 DVD
[01:55] <Riddell> Saied: I answered you in #k-d
[01:55] <Saied> Riddell: i dissconnected for some minutes, can you help me again
[01:56] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ^-- do you care enough about that for a DVD respin? I think it's just a cdimage bug
[01:56] <cjwatson> all the tasks other than desktop are probably broken (missing from Task: fields)
[01:57] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: that == kde-i18-fa?
[01:57] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: 12:54 <cjwatson> hmm, lamp-server task installation fails on the Ubuntu amd64 DVD
[01:58] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ugh.
[01:58] <Mithrandir> yes, I think I would like to get that fixed.
[01:59] <cjwatson> just trying to work out how to fix it cleanly and whether I need to change seeds or whatever
[01:59] <cjwatson> BRB after coffee
[01:59] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
[02:21] <cjwatson> Ubuntu/alternate and Edubuntu/server powerpc respun, within size limits now
[02:25] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok, I have a cdimage fix; confirm OK to respin DVDs?
[02:26] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, please.
[02:26] <cjwatson> unfortunate, but they'll be quick to rsync
[02:31] <cjwatson> respinning
[02:32] <Mithrandir> cheers
[02:32] <ogra> cjwatson, yay
[02:34] <Mithrandir> heno: we're respinning the DVDs, please obsolete all the test cases for those.
[02:44] <pitti> ogra: is it a known bug that /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf defaults to /ltsp/i386 instead of /ltsp/$ARCH?
[02:44] <ogra> yes
[02:44] <pitti> ogra: I configured network, ran ltsp-build-client, now it seems to work
[02:44] <pitti> the ltsp-build-client step is not really obvious
[02:45] <ogra> amd64 is somewhat special ... i only had one user yet who runs amd64 clients 
[02:45] <ogra> we cant put i386 packages on the CD (yet) 
[02:45] <ogra> so the dhcpd.conf is left in place for i386 chroots
[02:46] <pitti> ogra: oh, ltsp-build-client runs automatically for i386 installs?
[02:46] <ogra> it runs from the installer
[02:46] <pitti> ogra: ah, maybe not because this was a netboot install
[02:46] <ogra> you should already have an /opt/ltsp/amd64 chroot
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: anyway, I loop-mounted the alternate to /var/www/ubuntu and used my host system's apache as a local mirror
[02:47] <ogra> ah, might be that defaults to a workstation install
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: hm, I think I didn't have it
[02:47] <ogra> heh, you can dso that without http ;) --mirror file:///cdrom 
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: I need to check again in another install, but the first time I tried to boot it didn't find a kernel to boot
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: no, edubuntu server runs in vmware
[02:48] <ogra> ah
[02:50] <pitti> ogra: hm, student-control-panel complains about 'install x11vnc on the client'; on the client I just manually enabled 'remote desktop', but that's apparently not enough?
[02:50] <ogra> no
[02:50] <ogra> thats a bit trickier ;)
[02:50] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
[02:51] <ogra> you need to attach to the real client display :)
[02:51] <ogra> gutsy will have a script to make it easier to setup from thin-client-manager
[02:51] <ogra> for now i'm happy to have the client side at least
[02:52] <pitti> ogra: ah, alright; just checking :)
[02:52] <ogra> oh, heh, the howto misses that you should install x1vnc actually :)
[02:52] <ogra> *x11vnc
[02:52] <pitti> ogra: hm, but we already have vnc apps by default in desktop; those don't work?
[02:53] <ogra> no
[02:53] <ogra> it needs to run instde the chroot ... i dont think you can run vino outside of gnome 
[02:54] <ogra> and we have no other vnc server in main
[02:54] <ogra> *inside
[02:54] <ogra> (and i surely dont want to  load gnome libs on a thin client with 64M ;) )
[02:55] <pitti> ok, so I just stop worrying about that screen display now
[02:55] <pitti> thanks, ogra
[02:55] <ogra> yeah, i'll fix that for gutsy for now the errormessage should give users some pointers
[02:59] <Riddell> heno: iso testing results page down?
[03:00] <Mithrandir> Riddell: wfm
[03:00] <heno> Riddell: works for me
[03:00] <heno> though I don't think it can take a slashdotting
[03:01] <cjwatson> I've respun Ubuntu DVDs, but I'd like to give it a quick test myself first before wasting everyone else's time on it in case I screwed up the code
[03:03] <ogra> thats for LAMP only ?
[03:03] <cjwatson> looks ok at a quick glance through Packages
[03:03] <cjwatson> dns-server, lamp-server
[03:11] <Hobbsee> awww, no more updates.
[03:13] <Riddell> heno: working now for me too
[03:15] <heno> Hobbsee: having withdrawal ?
[03:15] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:15] <`anthony> fwiw, upgrading from edgy broke for me with all sorts of clashes in compiz-extra packages.
[03:15] <jsgotangco> weird though i get gzip errors in amd64
[03:15] <Hobbsee> heno: yes.  already.
[03:15] <jsgotangco> should try later
[03:15] <pitti> as beautiful as ubiquity and d-i are, you get sick of them after a week of testing...
[03:16] <jsgotangco> or worse rsync a dvd
[03:16] <Mithrandir> heno: just think of how seb128 must be feeling, then.
[03:17] <ogra> pitti, i wonder how cjwatson copes with that for years :)
[03:17] <ogra> since ?
[03:17] <ogra> hmm
[03:17] <pitti> for
[03:17] <Hobbsee> ogra: i believe the term is pure insanity?
[03:17] <cjwatson> sheesh, come on, what's taking this rsync so long - total changes are aspell-ku, update-manager-core, update-manager
[03:17] <heno> but at least he can look forward to a fresh stream of bug reports in a few days :)
[03:18] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: somebody posting rsync instructions to planet, perhaps.
[03:18] <ogra> Hobbsee, heh
[03:18] <heno> cjwatson: my sync is at 60%
[03:18] <cjwatson> "for <length of time>", "since <point in the past>"
[03:18] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'm *cough* rsyncing from lithium
[03:18] <fabbione> cjwatson: rsyncing now
[03:18] <heno> (i386 dvd)
[03:18] <ogra> cjwatson, pitti thanks ... :=
[03:18] <ogra> :)
[03:19] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: hm, ok, then I don't know.  I was just about to try the same for the new DVDs.
[03:20] <mvo_> Keybuk: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades updated (it links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyUpdatesEnabled now) - I could add screenshots here too if required 
[03:21] <Keybuk> mvo_: we don't enable -updates by default though, no?
[03:21] <cjwatson> we do
[03:21] <mvo_> Keybuk: we do 
[03:21] <cjwatson> always have, AFAICR
[03:22] <Keybuk> do we disable it on the live cd then?
[03:22] <pitti> Keybuk: we disable update-notifier
[03:22] <cjwatson> not so much disable as fail to enable, but yes
[03:22] <cjwatson> livecd.sh only sets up feisty main restricted and feisty-security main restricted
[03:23] <Keybuk> ah, ok
[03:24] <seb128> `anthony: we had no compiz-extra in edgy
[03:24] <seb128> `anthony: you liked installed a buggy version available on a non official source, not a lot we can do about it
[03:25] <seb128> `anthony: s/liked/likely
[03:26] <`anthony> seb128: Hm. NFI - I don't recall doing that, but who knows what crap has accumulated on this box. I found that as a result of multiple upgrades, my sources.list has a commented out line for the cdrom of feisty Badger. search and replace wins!
[03:28] <ogra> lol
[03:29] <pitti> seb128, dholbach_: FYI, recent LP rollout seems to have broken launchpadBugs again :/; therefore I disabled the retracers yesterday
[03:30] <seb128> pitti: ok, I didn't notice, we get almost no apport crashes since your turn it
[03:31] <seb128> turned
[03:41] <heno> the latest Ubuntu DVD boots fine here, doing an install now
[03:45] <stratus> ogra: pong
[03:47] <dholbach_> pitti: sounds like a case for -updates :-/
[04:00] <goedson> cjwatson, ping.
[04:01] <cjwatson> goedson: yes?
[04:02] <goedson> cjwatson, where should I send translation corrections for ubiquity?
[04:02] <robertj> under what circumstances does it make sense not to have pam use mkhomedirs?
[04:02] <cjwatson> goedson: change them in Rosetta
[04:02] <cjwatson> goedson: it's too late for feisty now though - the deadline passed nearly two weeks ago
[04:03] <goedson> cjwatson: couldn't find it there.
[04:03] <cjwatson> but Rosetta is where these live. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer
[04:04] <pitti> dholbach: indeed
[04:05] <goedson> cjwatson: I was looking for ubiquity :)
[04:05] <dholbach> pitti: did you see what is broken?
[04:06] <cjwatson> yes, I wish they'd put some kind of manual link in there
[04:06] <dholbach> pitti: until now I found the attachments not to be listed after initializing Bug()
[04:06] <pitti> dholbach: no, I didn't have time to investigate it yet
[04:06] <dholbach> pitti: ok no problem
[04:06] <bddebian> Heya
[04:08] <siretart> cjwatson: uploading to -updates results in a reject email with this explanation: Not permitted to upload to the UPDATES pocket in a release in the 'FROZEN' state.
[04:11] <cjwatson> siretart: ok, fair enough
[04:12] <ogra> stratus, i thought you might be intrested in bug 105709, i saw you just added th eltsp-sound script ;)
[04:12] <ubotu> Malone bug 105709 in ltsp "sound config not reset after thin client usage" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105709
[04:13] <stratus> ogra: oh, will read the full description, thanks
[04:14] <ogra> stratus, btw, why is sacix not in LP ... i would just have added it to the affected distros
[04:15] <stratus> ogra: hm set-pulseaudio and unset-pulseaudio are ubuntu only (yet) patches for pulseaudio, unfortunately
[04:15] <ogra> no, they are alsa patches afaik
[04:15] <stratus> ogra: I've added Sacix as a project as recommended by LP people, but didn't much work on that yet.
[04:15] <ogra> ah, i was looking for distro :)
[04:15] <stratus> they're pulseaudio patches, I'm almost sure ;)
[04:16] <ogra> well it sets a virtual alsa device ... pointing to pulse
[04:16] <stratus> oh no, alsa patches yes
[04:16] <stratus> they reproduce asound.conf
[04:16] <ogra> right
[04:16] <ogra> if you grab what asoundconf does to the config you can add that to the ltsp-sound script indead of my stuff
[04:17] <ogra> then it should work on any distro
[04:17] <stratus> ogra: btw, I need to ping somebody there, I've received no reply after my last message (about Sacix as project and some needed features, mainly malone related)
[04:17] <ogra> #launchpad should be the place then :)
[04:17] <wasabi_> hmmmmmm... 
[04:17] <stratus> yes, I thought the same and was running the set default card and stuff like that, but it wasn't working
[04:18] <stratus> ogra: sure, don't worry.
[04:18] <stratus> in other words I haven't figured in a short time how i could extend the 'alias' set-pulseaudio. unset-pulseadio sounds easier
[04:26] <iwj> ogra: I'm testing the edubuntu dvd (i386) and it doesn't seem to set up an ltsp server at all, contrary to what Testing/Short says.
[04:26] <stratus> ogra: there's something I'm planning to upload for experimental, see: http://people.debian.org/~stratus/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-server-init/
[04:27] <stratus> ogra: I've discussed this patch and some other stuff with vagrantc two days ago when we uploaded for sid, closing tons of bugs.
[04:27] <ogra> iwj, are you installing from the live session ?
[04:27] <ogra> ubiquity will only do a workstation install
[04:27] <stratus> ogra: He's going to merge from you and we will do a new upload for sid once our 'mainly bug fix only' upload enters testing, so I've some time for new features into experimental.
[04:28] <ogra> stratus, btw, your ltspfs patch ... why are you loading ide-cdrom ? that wont affect usb floppies which will be seen as scsi devices
[04:28] <ogra> err
[04:28] <ogra> ide-floppy indeed
[04:28] <LeeJunFan> what recently changed in feisty that reconfigures X on boot? I have 25 systems w/o X because it's rewriting the PCI ID of the gfx card?
[04:30] <stratus> as weird as it seems it's needed in Debian (dunno about Ubuntu, but I can ask a co-worker to test with edubuntu)
[04:30] <stratus> and the module needs to be loaded before add_fstab_entry run
[04:31] <ogra> well, are you sure it doesnt pull in something else which is what you actually need ?
[04:31] <ogra> ide-floppy shouldt affect usb devices, really ...
[04:32] <ogra> *shouldn't
[04:32] <stratus> not regular devices, but floppy drivers on usb are scary and weird
[04:32] <stratus> I haven't looked through ide-floppy code, but this is the right module to load,  there's no dependency needed
[04:35] <iwj> ogra: Well, first I tried in the live session (Testing/Short wasn't clear).
[04:36] <iwj> But now I have done a d-i install from `server install' and selected the edubuntu server and edubuntu desktop tasks.
[04:36] <iwj> My 2ary ethernet interface has no IP address and there's no dhcp server.
[04:37] <ogra> did the ltsp udeb run ? you should have seen it 
[04:37] <ogra> it takes good 10 mins so its something you would notice i guess
[04:40] <iwj> No, nothing sat for 10 mins.
[04:40] <iwj> What would it look like ?
[04:41] <ogra> a progress bar with title: "building LTSP client"
[04:41] <iwj> Nothing like that, no.
[04:41] <iwj> Or at least not for 10 mins.
[04:41] <iwj> I might have failed to look at it for a minute or two.
[04:42] <iwj> Where are the installation instructions that I ought to be following, if any ?
[04:42] <ogra> it sits there pretty long ... and it should have shown a note if it didnt confiog your second interface 
[04:42] <ogra> i dont have any for the DVD to be honest ...
[04:42] <iwj> ogra: I think we can safely say it didn't run.
[04:42] <iwj> Well, err, where are the cd instructions then ?
[04:42] <iwj> The alternate d-i CD I suppose.
[04:42] <ogra> i was assuming there is the default install from the CD running 
[04:42] <Riddell> fabbione: installing feisty on sunblade 100 seems to be working but I can't select the keyboard (type 6 usb), type 4 and 5 do some crazy remapping
[04:42] <ogra> (alternate)
[04:43] <fabbione> Riddell: yes.. known bug.. see Release Notes.. you need to select a standard PC105 keyboard
[04:43] <iwj> ogra: Tell you what, I'll do it again and this time I'll ask you which option to take at the key point s?
[04:43] <ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted we're just reworking that for feisty, but most of it should be similar
[04:43] <Riddell> fabbione: ok
[04:43] <ogra> (apart from ststic IP config and the dhcpd.conf stuff in the end)
[04:44] <ogra> *static
[04:44] <fabbione> Riddell: X won't be autoconfigured properly tho but i guess you know that
[04:44] <fabbione> Riddell: once we get sometime, i would love to get access and see if we can automate it
[04:44] <Nafallo> Keybuk: you haven't written a topicdiff for irssi, have you? :-)
[04:44] <iwj> Ah, there is `install to the hard disk' and `install a server'.
[04:44] <iwj> Separately.
[04:44] <iwj> Previously I picked `install a server'.
[04:45] <iwj> Let me see what happens if I say `install to the hard disk'.
[04:45] <Keybuk> Nafallo: no, for x-chat
[04:45] <ogra> iwj, apart from the LTSP bit it shouldnt look different to an ubuntu alternate install
[04:45] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[04:45] <Riddell> fabbione: if the distro sprint is in london I could bring it down
[04:45] <Hobbsee> hi fabbione :)
[04:45] <Nafallo> Keybuk: the one thing I'm missing ;-)
[04:45] <Keybuk> Riddell: that's the plan
[04:45] <iwj> ogra: In this case it didn't look _at all_ different to an Ubuntu d-i install (except that the result looked like edubuntu, of course).
[04:45] <ogra> iwj, ah, right ... install a server was renamed on the CD to "install a commandline system" 
[04:45] <ogra> but seems we missed out the DVD text
[04:46] <fabbione> Riddell: nah.. i just need ssh access and you tell me if X works or not.. or give me your working xorg.conf and a few data.. patching dexconf for sparc should be easy enough
[04:46] <fabbione> Riddell: it's not worth to move the entire machine.. but if you want.. well up to you
[04:46] <iwj> ogra: Ah.  I think you need to mention this issue in the release notes.
[04:46] <Riddell> fabbione: you're assuming I can get a working xorg.conf :)
[04:46] <ogra> iwj, good point
[04:46] <fabbione> Riddell: yes.. i am sure you can.. there are tons posted on google... 
[04:47] <fabbione> Riddell: point is that i don't want to rely on them to hack dexconf
[04:47] <iwj> ogra: Actually, I think it's a bug.  Since I selected the `edubuntu server' task, I mean.  Or is that not the ltsp server ?
[04:47] <ogra> it is, but not the setup of the client
[04:48] <iwj> Err, `the setup of the client' meaning some setup on the server to make clients work.
[04:48] <iwj> Since the clients are diskless and haven't got any state ...
[04:48] <ogra> edubuntu-server is a metapackage that just pulls in ltsp-server-standalone and friends ... setting up the chroot is done by the installer udeb
[04:48] <iwj> I see.
[04:49] <ogra> if you do it via edubuntu-server you need to run sudo ltsp-build-client post install
[04:49] <iwj> I assume this is intended to be used by people who wouldn't understand what you just said :-) so I suggest that these distinctions shouldn't be user-visible ?
[04:49] <fabbione> Riddell: anyway the SB1000 should have an ATI card.. so fairly simple to mangle
[04:50] <iwj> I mean, I selected the `edubuntu server' task, and isn't an `edubuntu server' exactly one of these ltsp setups ?
[04:50] <ogra> iwj, on the CD its is pretty clear ... the DVD is always been rather a stepchild
[04:50] <iwj> Which is why it seems like a bug to me if it doesn't DTRT.
[04:50] <iwj> IC
[04:51] <iwj> What do you think the user will understand by the `edubuntu server' task ?
[04:51] <ogra> the CD has: install to the HD, install a workstation, install a commandline system (and the usual rescue/check stuff)
[04:52] <ogra> can you make a screenshot of the DVD menu ? i somehow dont understand what you mean with edubuntu server task 
[04:52] <ogra> do you mean the "inastall a server" point ?
[04:53] <ogra> or do you refer to the edubuntu-server metapackage ? 
[04:53] <iwj> No, I mean after I said `install a server' (which you say should have been renamed) I eventually got to a tasksel prompt offering four things: `edubuntu server', `edubuntu desktop' and a DNS server and LAMP.
[04:53] <ogra> oh, tasksel
[04:53] <iwj> I selected the first two.
[04:53] <iwj> Yes.
[04:54] <ogra> i havent seen that since ages :) sorry i didnt even associate task with it ... silly mne :)
[04:54] <iwj> Hence my use of the word `task' :-).
[04:54] <iwj> Is there a bug about the inaccurate dvd menu item name ?
[04:55] <ogra> hmm, indeed the user should be notified that he needs to run ltsp-build-client ... i never thought that we might run into such a thing ... 
[04:55] <ogra> no, i dont think so since you just reported it :)
[04:57] <iwj> OK.  I'll file a bug about that ...
[04:57] <ogra> only doko tested the DVD yet ... but he had other way more serious issues so he likely has overseen it
[04:58] <iwj> ogra: Which LP path ?  LP doesn't have /edubuntu and I'm not sure of which package either.
[04:58] <ogra> hmm, i think either d-i or gfxboot-theme or so ....
[04:59] <ogra> i suspect the latter ... cjwatson ? wrong wording in CD menu entries ?
[05:00] <ogra> err DVD
[05:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 107507 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "edubuntu dvd menu has misleading title" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107507
[05:03] <ogra> great ... i'll refer to it in the known issues
[05:04] <ogra> re> <iwj> I assume this is intended to be used by people who wouldn't understand what you just said :-)
[05:04] <ogra> i wouldnt expect sduchj people to even see tasksel once in their life ;)
[05:04] <ogra> *such
[05:06] <ogra> hmm and tasksel has no opportunity to show a help text or additional info about a task ... tricky
[05:06] <iwj> Well, anyway, I have filed bug 107508 about the latter problem.
[05:06] <ubotu> Malone bug 107508 in ltsp "tasksel "edubuntu server" does not set up ltsp" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107508
[05:07] <ogra> i'm planning to get ird of edubuntu server as it is now anyway for gutsy ...
[05:07] <ogra> *rid
[05:07] <vciaglia> hi
[05:09] <cjwatson> ogra: actually, "Install a server" is different - I was asked to include a server boot option on the DVD which is analogous to ubuntu-server
[05:09] <conn> mjg59, have you resolved the conflict with networkmanager and softmac drivers? I suppose it's too late to have it included with the release :(
[05:09] <ogra> cjwatson, meh, by whom ? 
[05:09] <cjwatson> ogra: wasn't specifically for Edubuntu
[05:09] <ogra> cjwatson, ah
[05:09] <cjwatson> I wish Edubuntu was less full of crazy exceptions to everything
[05:10] <cjwatson> some day I need to make a list of all the constraints
[05:10] <ogra> cjwatson, i plan to let the first CD die as soon as we have a proper solution for the ltsp stuff in ubuntu
[05:10] <cjwatson> don't drag me into your debate with mdz :)
[05:10] <ogra> so you wont have to trick around with it anymore :)
[05:11] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/cdimage/cdimage>$ wcgrep 'PROJECT.*kubuntu' | wc -l
[05:11] <cjwatson> 8
[05:11] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/cdimage/cdimage>$ wcgrep 'PROJECT.*edubuntu' | wc -l
[05:11] <cjwatson> 46
[05:11] <ogra> well, its pretty clear we'll get any kind of solution here 
[05:11] <ogra> be it his or mine ;) 
[05:11] <ogra> ot a miture, who knows  ...
[05:11] <ogra> *mixture
[05:12] <cjwatson> this time please can I have a cast-iron clear description of exactly what Edubuntu requires; also preferably can you please review how the non-Edubuntu images are set up and try not to be gratuitously incompatible
[05:12] <cjwatson> because it really does cause problems that Edubuntu uses such different terminology for everything, made up essentially in isolation
[05:13] <ogra> thats why i want to get rid of most of it :)
[05:13] <cjwatson> I just want to avoid the creation of more utterly confusing stuff in its place
[05:13] <ogra> yup
[05:14] <cjwatson> so, I haven't respun Edubuntu yet for the task bug
[05:14] <cjwatson> would you like me to just get rid of the "Install a server" boot option?
[05:14] <ogra> that would be cool
[05:15] <ogra> and solve both of iwj's bugs
[05:15] <cjwatson> iwj: agree?
[05:18] <iwj> cjwatson: Yes, I think so.
[05:19] <heno> ogra: I'm interested in that debate. I'm thinking we should combine all the alternate CDs together on a 3-CD set
[05:19] <iwj> Although I don't know what that options is supposed to be for so I can't say that it wouldn't be wrong to do so.
[05:19] <holycow> i have feisty on this laptop and it seems to hang the box at 100% cpu intermittently
[05:19] <holycow> any suggestions on a tool i can use to track down what might be spiking th cpu like that to hang the system?
[05:19] <heno> that way you get different live CDs, but the alternate is just one set
[05:19] <holycow> any tips for trying to track down this issue?
[05:19] <heno> and that could be the DVD
[05:20] <cjwatson> iwj: "Install a server" is a recent addition to allow the DVDs to subsume the server CDs
[05:20] <ogra> heno, well, i'd like to move edubuntu to be a complete addon CD ... so users can choose the underlying desktop 
[05:20] <cjwatson> I think it can be turned back off on Edubuntu without too much hassle
[05:20] <cjwatson> addon CDs are crack, installer-wise
[05:20] <cjwatson> just hope you know that
[05:20] <shawarma> holycow: Ask in #ubuntu
[05:20] <holycow> uh no
[05:21] <ogra> cjwatson, just like it is now ... but with .desktop entries in g-a-i for the different tasks
[05:21] <holycow> what would newbs know about tracking down issues like that?
[05:21] <ogra> no installer stuff planned
[05:21] <holycow> hoping experienced devs have some tools/tips thats all :)
[05:21] <cjwatson> sigh, I give up, I've spent years arguing about this
[05:21] <cjwatson> just as long as I don't have to implement it
[05:22] <ogra> it is already implemented
[05:22] <holycow> ogra, thats just a stupid idea
[05:22] <holycow> seriously
[05:22] <crimsun> holycow: oprofile.
[05:22] <crimsun> oh, you want app, not actual kernel?
[05:22] <Nafallo> will people on feisty-changes be copied to gutsy-changes?
[05:22] <ogra> cjwatson, i dont want to change anything with the current addon CD only seed contents... 
[05:23] <holycow> crimsun, no kernel is a good start
[05:23] <ogra> its prefectly fine as is
[05:23] <holycow> crimsun, i have a sneaky feeling its a kernel module this gives me one extra thing to try, thank you!
[05:23] <holycow> ogra, no cd addons, drop the idea
[05:23] <holycow> its stupid
[05:24] <cjwatson> ogra: you won't be able to install an Edubuntu desktop using the installer any more
[05:24] <ogra> cjwatson, right thats the plan
[05:24] <jsgotangco> boo
[05:25] <ogra> cjwatson, you install ubuntu, kubuntu or xubuntu and pop in the addon CD that gives you different age related tasks in g-a-i
[05:25] <cjwatson> you realise that won't work?
[05:25] <ogra> which add the different artwork and edu apps
[05:25] <cjwatson> the add-on CD is germinated with respect to ONE seed
[05:25] <cjwatson> there is no support for germinating it with respect to the intersection of multiple seeds
[05:26] <cjwatson> which means that it can only possibly work when attached to a given single CD, at least without significant development work somewhere in the middle of cdimage and germinate
[05:26] <cjwatson> I already brought this up last time add-on CDs were discussed
[05:26] <ogra> right, i remember 
[05:27] <ogra> well, still it can go fine with ubuntu-desktop as base ... if thats the restriction it is as it is ...
[05:27] <cjwatson> and making it work for any of Ubuntu, Kubuntu, or Xubuntu would involve making the add-on CD significantly bigger due to the requirement to include all the necessary libraries
[05:28] <ogra> yup, i remember what you said last time ...
[05:29] <ogra> the thing is that imho the first CD is now mainly needed for ltsp setup if we can get an ubuntu solution for that we wont need it anymore
[05:31] <ogra> i just dont see why we should put additional time into maintenance for it
[05:31] <iwj> And this silly laptop doesn't seem to want to netboot.
[05:32] <cjwatson> heno: ok, I've tested the server boot option on the Ubuntu 20070418 DVDs and it's now working; could you invalidate Ubuntu 20070416 DVDs and replace them with that?
[05:32] <cjwatson> heno: I'm rebuilding Kubuntu and Edubuntu to match
[05:32] <iwj> Aha!
[05:34] <cjwatson> ogra: I sympathise with maintenance concerns; I just want to make sure the result is feasible
[05:35] <iwj> ogra: When you say `add him/her to the fuse group with the users-admin gui tool (this is not done automatically for security reasons' this appears to be false.
[05:35] <ogra> well if there are limitations we'll have to live with them .. but i want to make our life as easy as i can here ...
[05:35] <ogra> iwj, where do i say that ? we didnt do it by default in edgy and feisty
[05:35] <ogra> err
[05:35] <ogra> s/feisty/dapper/
[05:36] <iwj> Oh FUCK.
[05:36] <ogra> whats wrong? 
[05:36] <iwj> This stupid automounting my stuff has automounted my journalled filesystems from my hibernated install.
[05:36] <iwj> Now I will have to force-no-resume the hiberanted install, ie crash it.
[05:37] <iwj> s/my stuff/stuff/
[05:38] <iwj> Oh well, I don't _think_ I had anything important running.
[05:38] <iwj> Still, now I'll never know.
[05:38] <ogra> you are using a hibernated machine as thin client ? 
[05:39] <iwj> I'm using my laptop and netbooting it for testing purposes.
[05:39] <ogra> hmm is there any way to recognize there is hibernation data on it ... we could exclude such partitions ...
[05:39] <iwj> Using a machine that has some other purpose for a test or a demo is quite normal and shouldn't cause hideous doom.
[05:40] <ogra> sbalneav, ^^^^
[05:41] <iwj> This isn't the first time some overly-clever thing has done this.
[05:41] <iwj> The installer does it too.
[05:41] <cjwatson> please provide me with a way to tell it's hibernated and shouldn't be used
[05:41] <ogra> well, if there is a way to find out about it we can really exclude it ... 
[05:41] <cjwatson> I have conflicting requirements here and need a way to satisfy both
[05:42] <iwj> cjwatson: For the installer it's easy: if it's dirty, leave it alone.
[05:43] <iwj> For edubuntu it's harder since removeable things may end up dirty.  Perhaps prompt on insertion.
[05:43] <cjwatson> hmm, wonder if parted can tell me that
[05:43] <iwj> Didn't I already report a bug against the installer ?
[05:43] <iwj> If not I should have done.
[05:43] <cjwatson> you did, I'm sure
[05:44] <cjwatson> but I remember having no idea how to satisfy both requirements at the time
[05:44] <ogra> iwj, the point where i can prompt in the session the HW got already mounted on the client ... that would need implementation changes
[05:45] <cjwatson> (all bug fixes need implementation changes)
[05:45] <iwj> cjwatson: ROTFL
[05:45] <iwj> No, sometimes we change the documentation to define darkness as the new standard ...
[05:45] <ogra> heh, well, yes, small or big ones :)
[05:46] <iwj> Even refusing to run at all when a hibernated setup is found would be better.
[05:47] <sbalneav> Are we talking edu on a separate cd?
[05:47] <ogra> sbalneav, nope we're talking ltspfs automounting hibernation partitions
[05:47] <cjwatson> libparted doesn't seem to have any fs-independent way to tell whether a filesystem is dirty, unless I'm missing something
[05:47] <ogra> on laptops ...
[05:47] <iwj> cjwatson: Lovely.
[05:47] <heno> cjwatson: will do. I've tested live CD w/ install and I'm testing server now, FWIW
[05:48] <iwj> ogra: Bug 107518.  Feel free to reassign it to a more appropriate package.
[05:48] <ubotu> Malone bug 107518 in ltsp "auto filesystem mounting can cause hideous data loss" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107518
[05:48] <cjwatson> iwj: like I said in Oslo, I welcome help with the installer
[05:48] <cjwatson> particularly in the field of partitioning
[05:48] <iwj> cjwatson: *snort*
[05:48] <iwj> Why don't we assign this bug to me ?
[05:48] <iwj> Let me see if I can find it.
[05:48] <ogra> iwj, done :)
[05:48] <iwj> Not that I regularly look at my bug list :-/
[05:49] <cjwatson> I would suggest teaching parted_server (in partman-base) about a new command to tell whether the fs on a given partition is dirty, and making use of that in partman-basicfilesystems where it decides whether to automount things
[05:49] <iwj> cjwatson: bug 41624.
[05:49] <ubotu> Malone bug 41624 in partman-basicfilesystems "Replaying journals of other OS's filesystems, by mounting them, is unsafe" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/41624
[05:49] <ogra> sbalneav, i subbed you to the bug
[05:50] <cjwatson> let me brain-dump into that bug
[05:51] <iwj> cjwatson: OK.
[05:51] <cjwatson> iwj: Debian 417407, also
[05:51] <ubotu> Debian bug 417407 in debian-installer "debian-installer: d-i destroyed existing raid device" [Critical,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/417407
[05:51] <cjwatson> hmm, curious, ubotu lists the original subject not the current one
[05:51] <heno> cjwatson: great if you could PM me the new md5sums when the set is complete
[05:51] <cjwatson> and the original package, for that matter
[05:54] <iwj> ogra: Re that fuse group thing, I'm talking about Testing/Short.
[05:54] <iwj> Under Edubuntu, point 3.
[05:54] <ogra> oh, i need to update that 
[05:54] <iwj> I see.  So these security reasons don't apply any more or to put it another way we've changed our mind ?
[05:54] <ogra> the latter rather
[05:55] <iwj> Right.  Well, OK.
[05:55] <ogra> for shools with 500 users its a pain to enabled it manuially :)
[05:55] <ogra> *schools
[05:55] <ogra> iwj, isnt your hibernation data usually on a swap partition ? 
[05:55] <ogra> i'm just wondering how it gets mounted then 
[05:57] <iwj> ogra: It's my filesystems that get mounted.  Eg the hibernated install's root fs.
[05:57] <iwj> Why is there no `eject' item on the menu for this fuse local usb stick, in my client desktop ?
[05:57] <ogra> ah, and then you have differences between the hibernated data and the actual FS ... now i understand
[05:57] <ogra> because its never mounted unless you write or read ... 
[05:58] <ogra> it gets unmounted 2 secs after the last access happened
[05:58] <iwj> ogra: The mounting by the ltsp client replays the journal, and then the resumed install knows nothing of this and writes more stuff.
[05:58] <ogra> yuip, i understand now
[05:58] <iwj> There's still an `unmount volume' on the `File' menu in Nautilus.
[05:59] <iwj> I just tried that option and it gives me a silly error dialogue.
[05:59] <ogra> gah, bug
[05:59] <ogra> i thought i removed it everywhere 
[05:59] <geser> can somebody explain me why my upload of bzr-gtk (universe) was first accepted to only be rejected 30 min later?
[06:00] <ogra> why the heck do you find all this stuff ... 
[06:00] <iwj> I think users will find it confusing that `sometimes' (eg, on their normal ubuntu machine at home) they have to eject/unmount and `sometimes' (eg at school) they don't.
[06:00] <highvoltage> hie hie :)
[06:00] <iwj> I think software knows I have a bad opinion of it so it sets out to make me grumpy.  But it doesn't work because it's just confirming my expectations :-).
[06:01] <ogra> *giggle*
[06:01] <iwj> Also I'm a weirdo who tries to do what it says in the manual.  No-one else does that :-).
[06:02] <ogra> well, there is no opportunity to unmount anything with ltspfs ... what would you suggest ?
[06:02] <ogra> apart from relying on the admin to tell his users
[06:02] <iwj> Not sure.  Provide an `eject' option that does nothing but don't mind if the user doesn't do it ?
[06:02] <ogra> since thats common practice since ltsp exists ...
[06:02] <cjwatson> geser: it was initially accepted but then a decision was taken that the archive is closed for feisty
[06:02] <cjwatson> we need to lock down
[06:02] <iwj> What I really think we should do is fix the crazy behaviour on normal desktop installs.
[06:03] <iwj> It's outrageously crap.
[06:03] <ogra> hmm, right ... thats an option
[06:03] <ogra> yeah
[06:03] <iwj> So do you want a bug about the nautilus unmount volume thing ?  It doesn't seem important to me but I'm always happy to file another bug ...
[06:04] <ogra> yeah urgently, thats an oversight i would be angry to forget to fix in gutsy
[06:06] <iwj> What package ?
[06:06] <ogra> hmm
[06:07] <ogra> ltspfs for now ... even though the patch belongs to nautilus ...
[06:07] <ogra> but i wont monitor nautilus bugs ...
[06:10] <Keybuk> (random: how do you limit the height of a table cell in HTML/CSS?)
[06:11] <Ng> I'd expect a combination of a height: css attribute and an overflow: one would stop the browser forcing the cell bigger
[06:12] <Keybuk> doesn't seem to obey it
[06:13] <Ng> ah, http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/71730 has a good suggestion
[06:15] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'm going through release-noted bugs and sorting out milestones
[06:18] <Keybuk> ng: doesn't work for me
[06:18] <Ng> well that's me out of html/css clue ;/
[06:19] <Keybuk> it's the "expand to the minimum height" rule that's the problem
[06:20] <Pici> hehe
[06:20] <Pici> ^^ windows xp cdkey
[06:24] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: do you think the hardware-related issues in FeistyKnownIssues should be milestoned later? I'm not sure how many of those were added by you and how many were added by aggrieved users trying to get more attention
[06:25] <crimsun> (I added the AD1986A one, but I'll remove it if you guys think it's best omitted from that page.)
[06:29] <cjwatson> crimsun: I've got no problem with developers adding important bugs there
[06:38] <heno> *** New DVDs posted: 20070418 *** Anyone have those primed and can rsync?
[06:38] <doko> cjwatson: will it be possible to promote a package in feisty-updates, or should this be done before the release?
[06:39] <ogra> doko, it needs to go to -propsed anyway, no ?
[06:39] <ogra> i heard thats open already
[06:39] <doko> ogra: no, aksing about promotion, not upload
[06:40] <cjwatson> doko: no more changes are happening to the archive pre-release unless the sky falls in, so the latter is moot
[06:40] <cjwatson> we don't typically promote post-release either. What's the justification?
[06:40] <Hobbsee> ogra: it's still purple.  it's all good.
[06:41] <ogra> mine is grey here ... but still where it belongs :)
[06:41] <Hobbsee> mine's on the ground
[06:41] <Hobbsee> but then again, i'm australian, so am upside down...
[06:41] <doko> cjwatson: avoiding a crash in ooimpress after a presentation in full screen mode by building using stlport4.6 instead of stlport5.1
[06:41] <cjwatson> heno: top of https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting still says "*16 for DVDs"
[06:42] <ogra> Hobbsee, *g*
[06:42] <doko> another workaround would be to build using the internal copy of stlport
[06:42] <Hobbsee> ogra: :D
[06:42] <cjwatson> doko: it may be possible to promote post-release, but I'd have to check; ask me after release. Building using the internal copy would be acceptable if the result is stable
[06:52] <heno> cjwatson: fixing
[07:35] <silwol> hi ubuntu developers!
[07:35] <silwol> I have a rather generic network programming problem, maybe somebody could help me here...
[07:35] <silwol> I want to open a server on a high-port and afterwards announce it over avahi
[07:36] <silwol> is there a specific method to get an available random port?
[07:36] <silwol> ... in C
[07:38] <ion_> Please see topic./
[08:20] <stratus> ogra: around?
[08:21] <stratus> ogra: figured out with a co-worker the need for modprobe floppy before add_fstab_entry on usbfloppy implementation
[08:22] <stratus> ogra: the problem is that for some unknown reason there's no /dev/sdX on the server without the *ide*-floppy loaded (2.6.18 kernel)
[08:22] <stratus> ogra: of course we need that before add_fstab_entry, so..
[08:22] <bluefoxicy> Am I correct in assuming the default frequency scaler in Ubuntu is "ondemand" rather than userspace daemons
[08:23] <ogra> stratus, weird
[08:27] <stratus> ogra: my co-worker ack'ed that edubuntu also needs the ide-floppy trick
[08:28] <ogra> feisty ?
[08:28] <ogra> (edgy had 2.6.17)
[08:29] <stratus> ogra: he told me about .19, so I think it's something pre-feisty beta, he tested some weeks ago
[08:29] <stratus> before FISL
[08:29] <ogra> ok
[08:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: thanks; I've barely touched the KnownIssues page.  I guess it depends on how common the hardware is; I'd like the sound problems on common intel motherboards to be fixed quickly, for instance, but if $random_obscure_piece_of_hardware is broken, I don't really care that deeply.
[08:50] <conn> looking at FeistyKnownIssues, it says that using the livecd will be excessively slow for <256mb. I noticed the same with my systems, but I when I tried a livecd from about a week ago, the livecd environment functioned much better than previous herds/beta... I noticed that it was using swap on the harddisk. I don't know if this was intentional, but it allowed me to use the livecd to install on a system with just 196mb ram... will Feisty final use swap in 
[08:50] <conn> the same way?
[09:26] <juliux> hi all
[09:26] <rsk> hey
[09:26] <juliux> i reported #81804 in january, but it is fixed, can i reject the bug?
[09:27] <juliux> https://bugs.launchpad.net/update-manager/+bug/81804
[09:27] <ubotu> Malone bug 81804 in update-manager "update-manager is not working after upgrade to feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[09:27] <pochu> juliux: sure
[09:27] <juliux> ok then i will reject the bug to have the bugtracker clean;)
[09:27] <pochu> :)
[09:28] <juliux> pochu, where is the reject button on the new launchpad?
[09:29] <juliux> ah found it
[09:31] <mc44> juliux: why not set it to fix released :)
[09:31] <juliux> mc44, hmm
[09:32] <juliux> mc44, good point
[09:32] <juliux> mc44, i am not using launchpad everyday;)
[10:02] <davmor2> any xubuntu dev's here?
[10:02] <pochu> davmor2: what about xubuntu-devel ? :)
[10:03] <davmor2> cheers pochu found an easy to rectify bug
[10:39] <heno> cjwatson: the server install from the DVD didn't work for me (virtualbox). I got this on reboot: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/temp/DVD-server-install.png
 cjwatson: the server install from the DVD didn't work for me (virtualbox). I got this on reboot: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/temp/DVD-server-install.png
[10:59] <pochu> heno: where should netboot bugs be reported?
[11:00] <heno> pochu: good question; what are you seeing?
[11:00] <heno> is it a debian-installer issue?
[11:00] <pochu> bug #107568
[11:00] <ubotu> Malone bug 107568 in firefox "I have done a netboot install of xubuntu and the ubuntu-artwork folder is missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107568
[11:01] <pochu> davmor has just noticed that
[11:05] <heno> pochu: commented on the bug
[11:06] <pochu> thanks :)
[11:21] <somerville32> This is weird.
[11:21] <somerville32> Shouldn't it be xubuntu-artwork and not ubuntu-artwork?
[11:22] <somerville32> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=xubuntu-artwork&searchon=names&subword=1&version=feisty&release=all <-- Says xubuntu-artwork is in universe.
[11:25] <somerville32> I guess they don't have it setup that way.
[11:39] <richie_> hi!
[11:40] <richie_> anybody knows if thunderbird 2.0 will be available in feisty? 
[11:41] <mrsno> richie_ thunderbird 2 isn't final yet i thought
[11:41] <richie_> no0
[11:42] <richie_> its final, since a few hours
[11:42] <richie_> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/
[11:42] <Burgwork> richie_: not going to happen
[11:43] <mrsno> feisty is in freeze so i guess no :)
[11:44] <richie_> ok
[11:44] <richie_> thanks
[11:44] <pochu> richie_: maybe for feisty-backports
[11:45] <richie_> that would be great.
[11:45] <richie_> good night!
[11:45] <mrsno> gnite :)
[11:45] <pochu> night richie_
[11:45] <pochu> asac: ^ TB 2.0 out :) http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/
[11:46] <mrsno> it redirects me here, strange
[11:49] <mrsno> oh its quite nice :)
[11:52] <asac> pochu: rc build is in mozillateam preview archives
[11:52] <asac> and bzr branch
[11:53] <pochu> asac: do you mean gnomefreak's repo?
[11:53] <asac> yes
[11:54] <pochu> didn't see it last time :)
[11:54] <asac> probably now :) ... however locales are missing so upgrade might not be that smooth
[11:55] <pochu> do you have the url? I can't find it :/
[11:56] <gnomefreak> yes hold on a sec
[11:56] <pochu> ty
[11:56] <asac> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/PreviewArchives
[11:56] <asac> ?
[11:57] <pochu> yeah :)
[12:00] <cjwatson_> conn: we do use swap, but there's something weird going on beyond that that we don't understand
[12:02] <ajmitch> morning
[12:03] <Burgwork> hey ajmitch
[12:03] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[12:03] <cjwatson_> asac: I commented on bug 107568; I haven't investigated, but it's probably 50/50 between it being a Xubuntu bug or a firefox bug, so could you check that we haven't dropped the appropriate bits of default home page configuration?
[12:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 107568 in xubuntu-artwork "I have done a netboot install of xubuntu and the ubuntu-artwork folder is missing" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107568
[12:03] <Burgwork> ajmitch: sick
[12:03] <asac> cjwatson_: looking
[12:04] <ajmitch> Burgwork: join the club :)
[12:04] <asac> cjwatson_: the artwork page is not shipped from within firefox
[12:05] <asac> its like in my chroot ... if i go homepage its not there
[12:06] <asac> its file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[12:06] <cjwatson_> yes, of course, it's in the relevant flavour artwork packages
[12:06] <cjwatson_> see the wiki page I referred to in that bug
[12:07] <cjwatson_> I just wanted to make sure that the appropriate firefox configuration to make use of that was still in place