=== fowlduck [n=nate@205.213.123.16] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:19] Thanks everyone who showed up at the CC meeting for me. [12:19] my pleasure :-) [12:20] ScottK: congrats :) [12:20] Thanks. [12:20] ajmitch: confirmed false statement about harddisk sleeping :-P [12:22] ScottK, were you in for membership? [12:22] Yes === jekil2 [n=alessand@host226-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tsmithe heads off to bed [12:30] ScottK: man, this is a loooooong meeting === jekil [n=alessand@host226-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron_ [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron_ [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:43] ScottK: congrats :) === acacs [n=acacs@189.13.181.245] has joined #ubuntu-motu === peterflute [n=peter@43.Red-83-39-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:48] hello all, I was advised to come here by gnomefreak over on the channel for feisty owners....I have a problem with the configuration of an nvidia 6600gt on an asus mb. Any takers? [12:48] can someone with nvidia knowledge give peterflute a hand please. [12:49] peterflute: whats the issue? [12:49] gnomefreak: surely #ubuntu+1 or #nvidia is a better place...? [12:49] jmg: he has tried in #ubuntu+1 for 2 weeks [12:50] jmg: i spent 3 days on it and i still cant figure out why people with that card have such issues [12:50] peterflute: did you post to forums? [12:50] hmm [12:50] ok [12:50] card specific... [12:50] Hello. Every tim eI try to install the nvidia drivers, I get a black screen when I restart the x session. No number lock light on the kbd, no sound. only way to get out is restart, then switch to "nv" via vim === jmg has a FX5200 and 6800nu [12:50] yes jmg, some time ago, but no luck === gnomefreak has 5200 and 4000 [12:51] peterflute: what version drivers have you tried? did you try the -legacy driver/ [12:51] I never tried the legacy drivers.....Surely the non legacy woul dbe more appropriate??? === rexbron_ [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:52] Lutin: Thanks [12:52] darn, ScottK's membership went right past me [12:53] hehe [12:53] and I was going to put a link to my blog :/ [12:53] Is OK, I got in with no problem... [12:53] peterflute, 7184 supports the GeForce 6600/GeForce 6600 GT [12:53] well yeah [12:54] peterflute, so you might give it a go in case there is a regression in the newer driver... [12:54] iirc thats the reason -legacy was created. [12:54] ScottK: congrats [12:55] Thanks === gnomefreak didnt know you were not a member :( === jml [n=jml@59.167.203.115] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:55] So maybe I should just try legacy first? [12:55] peterflute: give that a go and come back === ScottK is typically more of a doer than a joiner... [12:55] yeah [12:55] synaptic is so much less hassle... [12:55] jmg: legacy was created because nvidia is dropping support for older cards with every new driver :) [12:55] ah [12:55] 6600 cant be that old [12:56] jdong: so they should... forceware is ridiculously huge :) [12:56] I 'll give it a whirl. thanks for the help. 6600gt is now counted as old then [12:56] gnomefreak: yeah, but i imagine they dont care about anything thats not bleeding edge [12:56] (12 months....jeez) [12:56] jmg: hah well it ain't any smaller yet :D [12:56] sounds like it s a good idea. [12:56] peterflute: no, it's not old... I still use Geforce4's [12:56] jmg: i see [12:56] peterflute: just a different driver to test [12:56] stupid deadly embrace :p [12:57] but the problem sounds like a monitor sync range related thing [12:57] See you all later, and thanks very much for the help. It's a great community. [12:57] we might have to perform surgery on his sync ranges if this doesn't work [12:57] thats what I thought jdong, so I tried specifying easy ranges for it, but to no avail [12:57] weird [12:57] we could use an axe.... [12:57] or .....a mattock!!!!! [12:57] peterflute: did you try blanking the sync ranges out and letting the driver negotiate? [12:57] ah, the wonderful world of video drivers :) [12:58] jmg, no I didnt.... [12:58] peterflute: also what panel are you connecting to and via what interface [12:58] its an lg 774ft via agp [12:59] LaserJock, wow, what a looooooong meeting [12:59] anyhow gnight all [12:59] imbrandon: no kidding [01:00] I thought they were delgating it all [01:00] peterflute: dvi, vga, tvout, hdmi? [01:00] vga [01:01] ok [01:02] peterflute: have you search for that bug in LP? [01:03] peterflute: bug 95542 [01:03] Malone bug 95542 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "no display after enabling nvidia driver (feisty beta)" [Undecided,Needs info] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95542 [01:03] bug 98721 [01:03] Malone bug 98721 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "Black screen on Xorg start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98721 [01:04] peterflute: maybe any of those two bugs are what you're experiencing? [01:06] I'll take a look === aanderse [n=aaron@CPE0015e916db19-CM001225d7436c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mr_pouit [n=mrpouit@ubuntu/member/mrpouit] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:09] I dont think so...I 'll try the legacy drivers, and I note there iare now three available drivers via synaptic....nvidia-glx, glx legacy, and glx new === ajmitch just uses nvidia-glx === mrpouit [n=mrpouit@ubuntu/member/mrpouit] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:10] ajmitch: OMGZ BUT ITS NOT NEW!!!one === ajmitch /ignores [01:10] lol [01:11] cheers all, and tahnks again === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:14] hi Burgundavia [01:14] hey ajmitch === enyc [n=enyc@1337.whitehorse.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:17] oh finally someone talked about it [01:17] what's up with Vesa. It seems to be a lot of troubles [01:17] * cr3 (n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3) #ubuntu-devel [01:17] * johanbr IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [01:17] apparently it turns off the monitor when using geforce FX 5200(tried only on it). Is it a known issue or it's just my pc? [01:17] "turns off the monitor"? [01:18] and again it's "fixed" when you switch to nv [01:20] the other bugs are dealing with ATI cards [01:22] hmmm [01:23] and i thought that putting generic driver instead of nv wasn't a bug === agroker [n=pozdiy@152.16.144.213] has joined #ubuntu-motu === agroker [n=pozdiy@152.16.144.213] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] [01:26] im confused... did peterflute get fixed? === Monk-e [n=guidolou@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [01:30] jmg: peterflute> I dont think so...I 'll try the legacy drivers, and I note there iare now thrpeterflute> I dont think so...I 'll try the legacy drivers, and I note there iare now three available drivers via synaptic....nvidia-glx, glx legacy, and glx newee available drivers via synaptic....nvidia-glx, glx legacy, and glx new [01:30] oups :) [01:31] yes and then he quit [01:31] to try the legacy [01:31] still do not explain why it goes black on generic driver! [01:32] i think thats an nvagp issue [01:32] but with nv it works fine [01:32] yews [01:32] -w [01:32] nv doesnt use nvagp [01:32] only nvidia [01:33] well, and vesa does? [01:33] i was talking about vesa which for some reason was put in the config after fresh install [01:33] vesa doesnt but nvidia vesa support, indeed any post 2000 card has shonky vesa at best [01:34] maybe it should attempt to put nv instead then? [01:34] could cause troubles [01:36] also i could go around that with turning my screen off before X loads and then turning it back [01:36] with build 14 [01:37] after i updated today it no longer worked [01:37] typical [01:37] im not tracking feisty yet === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === reggaemanu_ [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-30-39.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === psusi [n=ubuntu@user-0c6s9hg.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rpereira [n=rpereira@ubuntu/member/rpereira] has joined #ubuntu-motu === reggaemanu__ [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-175-104.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:12] night all === kkubasik [n=kjk38@kjk38-laptop.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@a88-114-229-220.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === dcsmith [n=dcsmith@ool-4351bc6d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:24] Would someone (preferably keescook if he's awake/around), please look at Bug #107350 and see if it qualifies as a security fix. I think it does. [02:24] Malone bug 107350 in pptpd "pptpd freeze" [Undecided,Needs info] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107350 === keescook goes to look while waiting for compiles to finish [02:27] Thanks [02:29] keescook: I was thinking the first part of the problem might qualify as a input validation error with some potential for security. [02:30] ScottK: so, I'm not too familiar with pptp code, but does the patch fix the protocol within the encrypted tunnel, or outside of it? [02:31] i.e. can a 3rd party cause the denial-of-service? [02:31] I don't know. I'm not familiar with the code. I saw it go by on #ubuntu-bugs [02:32] I looked in the upstream CVS and this was the only change in the new version, so upstream thought it was serious enough to pull the trigger on a release for it. [02:32] I'm sure it'd be fine for a -update release; sounds like a nasty bug. :) For -security, I'd like to see that it has some kind of 3rd party interaction. (i.e. so what if I can DoS my own PPTP tunnel) :) [02:32] That doesn't say if it's security related or not. [02:32] OK. === ScottK will do -update packages when I can (maybe later tonight) if someone else doesn't get to it first... [02:33] keescook: Thanks for looking at it. [02:33] ScottK: sure! thanks for noticing it. :) === somerville32 [n=somervil@ubuntu/member/somerville32] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu === stratus [n=stratus@201.53.55.52] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:49] Heya gang === fowlduck [n=nate@24-183-45-79.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === DarkMageZ [n=richard@ppp6-91.lns4.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF [n=Chris_@matht464.maths.unsw.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:04] keescook: For the fix for Feisty for Bug #107350, I gather I put feisty-updates for distro now? [03:04] Malone bug 107350 in pptpd "pptpd freeze" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107350 [03:08] ScottK: So what happened? :) [03:08] I'm in. [03:08] Thanks for the plug. [03:08] Sweet, congrats === ScottK was over prepared. It was a slam dunk. [03:09] it took about 30 seconds [03:09] ajmitch: Do you know the answer to my question above for kees? It's a main package. [03:09] -proposed first [03:10] Ah. Thanks. [03:10] basically follow whatever the main SRU policy is [03:10] should be on the wiki somewhere === ScottK will look [03:10] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates [03:10] Thanks === Yasumoto [n=joe@trailers66.chapman.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:15] ScottK: There's no such thing as over-prepared ;-P [03:15] It did help them get back on schedule. === ScottK is more impressed by sacater now that I know he's only 14. === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-motu === azeem_ [n=mbanck@ppp-88-217-32-71.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === azeem__ [n=mbanck@ppp-88-217-33-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:29] bddebian: my xorg is taking up 420mb of ram :P === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@220.207.110.4] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:32] Nice === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-220-136.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cody [n=somervil@fctnnbsc15w-156034073142.nb.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:52] cool. === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === evand [n=evand@ubuntu/member/evand] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lionel [n=lionel@ip-61.net-82-216-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-035-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:56] keescook: I am somewhat launchpad impaired, so I'm not sure if I got that arranged right, but Bug #107350 now has patches for Feisty, Edgy, and Dapper proposed. [03:56] Malone bug 107350 in pptpd "SRU proposal - pptpd freeze" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107350 [03:57] pptpd sucks [03:57] l2tpd ktx [03:57] openvpn ktx [03:57] pptpd notx === ScottK has no opinion. It'll suck less after the patch... [03:58] clearly ScottK has never had to debug a pptpd tunnel [03:58] LCP TIMEOUT ERROR! [03:58] IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO VPN! [03:58] You are correct. [03:59] User reports serious issue with a package and has a patch, I package the patch. That's as far as I go. [03:59] :) [03:59] of course [03:59] im just ranting === ScottK noticed. [04:00] fortunately i no longer work in that particular enterprise [04:00] here we roll openvpn === enyc [n=enyc@1337.whitehorse.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@59.167.203.115] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ryanakca [n=ryanakca@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-094-188.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === plugwash__ [n=plugwash@p10link.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Subhuman [n=jack@host86-147-106-193.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === esaym [n=user@cpe-72-183-202-162.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === asantoni [n=alb@bas7-london14-1177945910.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === torkel [n=torkel@ip65.degernas.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AstralJava [n=jaska@cm-087-94-108-212.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-035-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === xtknight [n=xtknight@c-68-43-122-102.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bluefoxicy [n=bluefox@c-68-33-112-13.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ryanakca [n=ryanakca@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying__ [n=freeflyi@220.196.239.92] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-motu === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rexbron [n=rexbron@complex1-372-179.resnet.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:15] ScottK: 'grats! [05:16] Thanks. [05:16] It was easy with all the backing I had. === mitchy_g [n=mitchy_g@b06F0.static.pacific.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:18] Don't get cocky ;-P [05:19] scottk is now a member of the illuminatus [05:19] please report for reeducation [05:19] heh [05:20] bddebian: Not me, all you guys that showed up/e-mailed. === pierce [n=pierce@38.100.212.26] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:32] is there a repository somewhere where I can get recent versions of lastfm and azureus etc? [05:33] Generally we just support what's in the official repositories. I'm sure the answer to that is yes, but I've no idea where or how well they work. === reggaemanu [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-175-104.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:39] hmm, so there are no official repositories that have the new versions? The version of azureus in feisty is really buggy, and new versions address those bugs. From the bug reports I have seen posted, it looks like the only workaround is to install the new azureus outside of the whole apt thing altogether [05:40] pierce: 2.5.0.0 is the latest version of Azureus [05:41] 2.5.0.4 is the latest releases version [05:41] 2.5.0.4 is the latest in 2.5. and there's also 3.0 now [05:41] pierce: the bugginess is most likely due to Azureus being compiled with GCC Java, not with the actual program itself [05:41] 2.5.0.0 is in edgy [05:41] pierce: 3.0 does not run under Linux yet; 2.5.0.4 will auto-update when running it, IIRC [05:41] piece: heh 3.0 just links to 2.5.0.0 on linux [05:41] 2.5.0.0 is the latest in feisty [05:41] jdong: it wont auto update when installed with apt [05:41] because normal users cant write to the files [05:42] Lathiat: I thought it installs to ~/.azureus [05:42] at least the last time I used Debian azureus it had that capability [05:42] yeh? [05:42] i've had it whigne and complain before === Lathiat tries [05:42] GRR it crashes under compiz [05:42] that's right. [05:42] heh [05:43] Azureus isn't one of the easy ones to package either [05:44] yeh theres a bunch of changes [05:44] not to mention we repack upstream tarballs [05:45] why does ubuntu even support compiz? I thought people stopped developing on that a while back. those java bugs were fixed in beryl a long time ago [05:45] pierce: no, compiz is under active development [05:45] i heard rumors that compiz & beryl were going to merge [05:45] pierce: Currently Azureus crashes with the identical internal error under Beryl 0.2.1 [05:45] DarkMageZ: they're not rumors; they're plans, === vil [n=vladimir@ubuntu/member/vil] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-008-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === elkbuntu_ [n=melissa@ppp24-108.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:20] DarkMageZ: And more than plans, they're almost-implemented plans. [06:21] RAOF, almost implemented as in the merge is almost done? [06:22] Yeah. [06:22] wow. i expected that to be a several month long process. sure shocked me [06:22] There's still some social issues which need thrashing out, but (almost all) the beryl plugins now run on an unmodified compiz-core [06:23] When last I checked, at least. [06:23] what happened of the plugins with questionable legality, eg genie effect and expose? === effie_jayx [n=l3ap@190.37.175.250] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:24] AFAIK expose (== scale) was never questionably legal, and I think the genie effect (by default) has a minimum # of "waves". [06:24] ah [06:24] (Stupid, stupid patents) === superm1 nods [06:25] wouldn't expose still be questionably legal in the US tho? doesn't apple have a patent for that? [06:25] Dunno. It's been in Compiz forever (as in, since the 0.0.1 release), though. [06:26] RAOF: Novell shipped with scale on for SLED10... I think if it was a serious legal problem, they would've not allowed it [06:27] these are the guys who believe the MPEG2 codec must be stripped out of ffmpeg to ship... [06:27] legal paranoia to the max. [06:27] Right. :) [06:27] they can only be paranoid if they realise [06:27] DarkMageZ: I'm sure they realize [06:27] Novell isn't stupid, on the legal front [06:27] And, well, MPEG2 *should* be stripped out of ffmpeg by default to ship... :P [06:28] RAOF: doesn't our ffmpeg support mpeg2? [06:28] RAOF: I think we can play mpeg2 out of the box, actually.... [06:28] Yes. [06:28] :) [06:28] but we still do have gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mpegdemux available to us [06:28] We can, but (from memory) there are still a bunch of patents on the MPEG* codecs [06:28] install SLED, the only thing it plays out of the box are Ogg Vorbis, Ogg Theora, and RealPlayer stuff [06:29] RAOF: MPEG* are all patented [06:29] *Realplayer*? [06:29] RAOF: they licensed Realplayer to play MP3's [06:29] Aaaah. Right. [06:29] that's their solution for legal mp3 playback [06:29] amarok and stuff all route thru realplayer [06:29] Why not fluendo's Gstreamer plugin? [06:29] it was before that was available [06:29] Fair enough. [06:29] I'm not sure what's the reason nowadays [06:29] but Novell's been doing that since they acquired Suse [06:30] if fluendo's is installed, does gstreamer use that over ffmpeg? [06:30] silly legal world... [06:30] so braindead [06:30] No idea, and don't actually care. [06:30] One mp3 decoder is pretty much as good as another :) [06:32] if you wanna get rid of the majority of the patent BS. all you need to do is nuke america. [06:32] *ahem* [06:32] after evacuating the rare few smart ones [06:32] haha [06:33] lol [06:33] There's plenty of patent craziness around, though. It's not like it's just the USA. [06:33] don't know, Australia, EU, etc are getting into the fun now too === superm1 thinks we should start our own country and in its constitution, include a clause that bans anything related to patents and drm. [06:35] Well that has to be George Bush's fault too somehow [06:35] Hey, is it now legal to rip CD's that we own in .au? I forget how that's coming along. [06:35] or just join the pirate party in whatever country you live in :-p [06:35] superm1, i hear the pirate bay is trying to create their own country. you could work with them to make a great nation. [06:35] hehe [06:36] DarkMageZ, would you come live there with me then? [06:36] Yeah good luck powering those servers on granola [06:36] haha [06:37] What the hell happened to bhale, anyway, I never see that guy anymore? :-( [06:37] haha, from wikipedia The term "patent" originates from the Latin word patere which means "to lay open" (i.e., make available for public inspection) [06:38] "a patent provides the right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing the patented invention" [06:39] I still don't understand how that can apply to free software [06:39] pierce: because its the law. [06:39] laws are a social convention, and have nothing to do with the 'laws of physics' [06:39] pierce: "making", "using" [06:40] its entirely possible to write a law that makes possessing a copy of the GPL a felony. [06:40] It's stupid, but pieces of mathematics (algorithms) are patentable. [06:40] At least in the USA. [06:42] I think it's all contestable though. The first amendment to distribute information should be able to trump all of this new legal BS [06:42] And in the EU too if you folks over there don't watch out. [06:43] pierce: first amendment only talks about freedom of speech [06:43] this is not a freedom of speech issue [06:43] pierce: But patents have *always* been about restricting what you can *do* with information (/speech), while forcing you to publish the info. [06:44] haha, mathematical formalization, and proper publication of laws would be nice :-p [06:44] lawyers would only be needed to help prove or disprove intent [06:46] A nice idea, but flawed in practice. I doubt you could draft laws which need no interpretation. [06:47] ya, there would always be loopholes when it comes to intent, so there are still ways out [06:47] And where there is interpretation, there is precedent. And where there is precedent, there is crazy lawyering :) [06:48] [06:48] I also think that all written text should be XML compliant [06:48] you should all read 'accelerando' [06:49] or Mein Kampf [06:49] By? Where? [06:49] Ok, my response was delayed for *slightly* too long there :) [06:50] hehe, amazon recommended mein kampf to me the other day. that was a bit weird [06:50] google for 'accelerando' [06:50] The good news is enough big companies are starting to get hit by stupid patent tricks that I think some of them are having second thoughts. [06:50] ScottK: what, like IBM, MS, SCO, ??? === ScottK goes to bed (It's late and he's tired). [06:51] some of the biggest patent holders ... [06:51] Microsoft, Blackberry, others === RAOF loves the "cold war" approach to patents. That'll learn'em. [06:51] Not SCO. SCO isn't about (much) patents. === ScottK really goes to bed this time... [06:52] has sco been liquidated yet? [06:52] they are pretty much pure litigation now === Ademan [n=dan@h-69-3-235-237.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jpon [n=jpniane@neu67-3-82-239-80-181.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@222.92.36.122] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@ubuntu/member/toadstool] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Jozo [i=jozo@nelli.ikonia.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fdoving [n=frode@ubuntu/member/frode] has joined #ubuntu-motu === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sloof3 [n=andy@pdpc/supporter/student/sloof3] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Kaloz [i=kaloz@openwrt/developer/Kaloz] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _seaLne [n=seaLne@obelisk.wasters.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Yasumoto [n=joe@trailers66.chapman.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:20] RAOF: re ripping CDs [07:21] RAOF: watch Kim Weatherall's talk from LCA 2007 [07:25] re === Zic [n=Zic@Final-Fantasy.FF-IRC.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === awbassett [n=andrew@206.135.97.35] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cypherdelic [n=cypherde@port-87-234-140-151.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F707C1.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:58] good morning [08:01] Good afternoon :) [08:01] jml: Yeah, I *really* must get around to watching that. [08:02] RAOF: it makes little sense for Australian geeks to argue about IP law unless they've watched that. [08:02] or unless they are lawyers [08:09] hi dholbach [08:09] hey LaserJock [08:09] LaserJock: what do you think about adding the behindmotu feed to planet ubuntu? [08:10] well [08:10] Burgundavia doesn't like the idea [08:10] why? [08:10] and I'm not sure either [08:10] the idea was that planet was for personal blogs [08:11] if we have stuff like 'debian package a day' we can also have 'behind motu' [08:11] so things like package-a-day and things like that shouldn't be there [08:11] dholbach: I am not really in favour of the deiban package of the day [08:11] it really should be part of the fridge [08:11] I like 'behind motu' and want to hear more about our MOTUs and hopefuls [08:11] and it's not 'high volume' [08:11] dholbach: so my thought is maybe we can promote it elsewhere? [08:12] we also have 'launchpad updates' on planet [08:12] Burgundavia suggested we can promote it on fridge and UWN [08:12] AND planet ;-) [08:13] I mean, I try to keep them relevent and short(ish) to be planet friendly [08:13] but I do see Burgundavia's point [08:13] it's an rss feed - it's the most natural thing to aggregate it on planet ;-) [08:13] then why not have the fridge on planet? [08:13] planet is aobut people [08:13] fridge is new [08:13] news [08:13] behindmotu is about people too :) [08:14] true [08:14] but I don't want to talk people into something - I just liked the idea very much and *to me* it makes more sense than other things on planet === dholbach shuts up now [08:15] I am merely concerned about planet getting very noisy] [08:15] well, I'm not particularly stuck either way === mq__ [n=Marc@cug31-1-82-234-62-122.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:15] <\sh> moins [08:15] Burgundavia: well, it'll be roughly 1 post per week [08:16] about Ubuntu people [08:16] behind* is the least likely candidate to decrease the S:N ratio. === Kagou [n=Kagou@77.195.216.63] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:17] Burgundavia, planet is already noisy with non-ubuntu stuff, but thats the thing about planets IMHO they should be a little bit, they are "behind the lives of the people of ubuntu" [08:17] imbrandon: indeed [08:17] :) [08:17] btw moins [08:17] hehe [08:17] well, I'm up for whatever people decide [08:18] since currently I'm in control of Behind MOTU I can make it as noisy (or quiet) as I want [08:18] and I don't think I'm a particularly noisy person [08:18] <\sh> a side block for package of the day or whatever is nice on planet ,) [08:18] I could be wrong though [08:18] i think once a week is good , its not tooo much [08:19] redbull gives you wingggggggggsssssss [08:19] oh goodness [08:19] imbrandon's high again [08:19] <\sh> redoing planet with drupal and adding more stuff to the frontpage? ,-) [08:20] \sh, i dont think drupal is the answer, planetplanet is quite extensable, and the -devel list for it is very active [08:21] its just a matter of getting the templates that p.u.c uses and modifying them [08:21] drupal is stooopid [08:21] evening [08:21] me and / or corey should be able to get them as we're on the website team :) [08:21] then again, I think most CMSs are. Completely inappropriate for relatively static websites. [08:21] Flannel, planet is anything but static :) [08:21] heya ajmitch === ajmitch wants to see more stuff on behind motu [08:22] imbrandon: indeed. I will get on nuzum after the feisty relesae [08:22] <\sh> well, planet is a blog rss aggregator from ubuntu members blogs [08:22] <\sh> fridge is a news page for hot stuff [08:22] imbrandon: right, planet is an appropriate use of a CMS. Ive seen company websites that consist entirely of "posts" [08:22] agrees with ajmitch i think its time for another weekly dose :) === blackskad [n=blackska@d54C0B7A4.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:22] <\sh> so debian package of the day is something for fridge -> software news tab [08:23] \sh, possibly, i agree [08:23] <\sh> it's easy to add it to the fridge (even with an rss aggregator plugin of drupal) [08:23] imbrandon: poke LaserJock :) [08:23] LaserJock!!! [08:23] oh mr LaserJock! [08:24] pick another unfortunate^W willing MOTU :) [08:24] dude [08:24] I'm just waiting for the email [08:24] hehe :) [08:24] waiting? [08:24] I think I'm even getting a screenie this time [08:24] from? /me is curious [08:24] so you've picked out some lucky victim? === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:24] imbrandon: certainly not me :) [08:24] waiting for geser (sssh, don't tell) [08:25] ah... [08:25] cool === imbrandon nominates Fujitsu and crimsun for future stories /me ducks === Monk-e [n=guidolou@c529dd229.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:26] yeah, I need to think of some better questions [08:27] but I plan on sending out several at once so I have a ready supply [08:27] "what is your favourite colour?" [08:27] "what is your quest?"... [08:27] "what level DungeonMaster are you?" ... [08:27] my original plan was to do ~ 1/week so end up with ~50 interviews by the end of a year [08:28] I figure that should cover most MOTUs and MOTU Hopefuls [08:28] silly DM's dont have levels [08:28] imbrandon: no no no [08:29] imbrandon: what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? [08:29] heh === \sh prepares rollout of 100 servers (deployment time: ETA 6 mins) [08:29] I also had another brain storm this evening [08:30] (must have been something I ate) [08:30] but I need to develop it more before I unleash it on you guys [08:30] heh [08:31] LaserJock: just spill it [08:31] we won't tell [08:31] heh, I'm just afraid everybody will laugh at me unless I have a "proof-of-concept' [08:31] nah [08:31] we're used to crazy ideas === torkel [i=torkel@matilda.hpc2n.umu.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:32] oh man [08:32] speaking of which [08:32]