[12:14] <asac> cjwatson: i guess its firefox looks at /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html (yes we still have that setting) ... but xubuntu-artwork doesn't ship it.
[12:15] <keescook> Mithrandir, cjwatson: can you shove libx11 through for -security on dapper/edgy please?
[12:15] <cjwatson> asac: last I heard, xubuntu-docs shipped an alternative, I think
[12:16] <cjwatson> maybe they dropped that by mistake
[12:16] <cjwatson> keescook: where, on drescher?
[12:16] <keescook> cjwatson: I think so?  I assume it's not showing up on the archives because the archives are frozen.
[12:16] <cjwatson> yeah, publisher's not been running
[12:17] <cjwatson> let me just make sure it's safe
[12:17] <cjwatson> looks ok ...
[12:17] <keescook> cjwatson: thanks!  :)
[12:17] <cjwatson> mkay, publisher's running
[12:18] <cjwatson> only seems to be publishing libx11 binaries plus a few misc sources, none to feisty
[12:18] <cjwatson> firestarter/edgy, python-xlib/edgy, app-install-data-commercial/dapper
[12:18] <keescook> cjwatson: no clue about the non-libx11 stuff...
[12:19] <cjwatson> probably SRs
[12:19] <cjwatson> SRUs
[12:19] <asac> cjwatson: it works for me: install ubuntu-docs ... set alternative for firefox-homepage to xubuntu
[12:19] <asac> s/ubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/
[12:20] <cjwatson> it's a recommends of xubuntu-desktop, oughta work fine
[12:20] <cjwatson> shrug, guess I'll have to follow up tomorrow
[12:20] <cjwatson> thanks for checking
[12:21] <asac> hmmm ... maybe they install some other none existing alternative by accident? probably ask user what alternatives are available :)
[12:22] <asac> cjwatson: makes sense for me to download xubuntu and try vm install tomorrow morning? or too late anyway?
[12:22] <cjwatson> only if you feel *particularly* keen
[12:23] <cjwatson> I wouldn't spend too much time on it; sounds like it isn't a firefox problem
[12:24] <asac> sure ... so if I discover that alternative is really messed up in iso ... would we fix it before release? otherwise, I would not test it :)
[12:26] <cjwatson> asac: not now, no
[12:26] <cjwatson> we have completely locked down
[12:26] <asac> thought so ;)
[12:27] <cjwatson> I can still imagine scenarios in which we would change things, but they're getting rarer and rarer
[12:27] <ajmitch> bugs that eat children?
[12:27] <cjwatson> I rebuilt a few images today, but that was only with fixed cdimage code, not archive changes
[12:28] <shawarma> xubuntu is releasing tomorrow, too?
[12:28] <cjwatson> yes
[12:28] <shawarma> I thought they were usually lagging a few days.
[12:29] <davmor3> cjwatson: my xubuntu bug #107568 the file firefox asks for is the same as in ubuntu
[12:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 107568 in xubuntu-artwork "I have done a netboot install of xubuntu and the ubuntu-artwork folder is missing" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107568
[12:29] <shawarma> "usually" takes on a special meaning for something that has released twice or so. :-)
[12:29] <asac> davmor3: what alternatives do you have?
[12:30] <davmor3> asac: sorry?
[12:30] <cjwatson> shawarma: I don't believe Xubuntu has ever lagged in terms of final releases. Announcements may have lagged.
[12:30] <asac> davmor3: update-alternatives --display firefox-homepage
[12:30] <cjwatson> davmor3: yes, that's intentional
[12:31] <shawarma> cjwatson: Ah, yes, I suppose that may have been the case.
[12:31] <cjwatson> davmor3: it's supposed to point to /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/blah - alternatives sort that out, and the command asac posted above should determine whether that mechanism is functioning correctly
[12:31] <cjwatson> in any case the bug is not that firefox is pointing to /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/firefox-index.html for its home page
[12:31] <davmor3> cjwatson: yes but that page is missing completely the folder is also in a different place
[12:32] <cjwatson> davmor3: please answer asac
[12:32] <cjwatson> we know that the real file is in a different place, but the alternatives mechanism is *supposed* to install a symlink
[12:32] <cjwatson> we are trying to work out where the bug in that mechanism is
[12:32] <cjwatson> repeatedly telling us that the file is missing does not help
[12:33] <davmor3> sorry hang on
[12:33] <cjwatson> the xubuntu-docs package appears to take care of it
[12:33] <Kmos> at my feisty ubuntu:
[12:33] <Kmos> kmos@bash:~$ update-alternatives --display firefox-homepage
[12:33] <Kmos> firefox-homepage - status is auto. link currently points to /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/firefox-index.html
[12:33] <Kmos> /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/firefox-index.html - priority 40 slave firefox-homepage-locales: /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales-ubuntu
[12:33] <cjwatson> do you have /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html ?
[12:33] <Kmos> Current `best' version is /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/firefox-index.html.
[12:33] <cjwatson> Kmos: please, not from an Ubuntu installation
[12:34] <cjwatson> Kmos: this is apparently a Xubuntu-specific problem of some kind
[12:34] <Kmos> cjwatson: ok, just to test :)
[12:34] <cjwatson> the code in xubuntu-docs.postinst looks correct to me
[12:34] <Kmos> davmor3: show the command output
[12:34] <asac> i just can imagine that some none existing alternative with higher priority is installed by accident
[12:34] <davmor3> ascs: no alternatives for firefox-homepage
[12:35] <asac> no?
[12:35] <cjwatson> davmor3: dpkg -l xubuntu-docs
[12:35] <cjwatson> keescook: published
[12:36] <keescook> cjwatson: great!  thank you.  :)
[12:36] <cjwatson> xubuntu-docs has Task: xubuntu-desktop so should be installed
[12:37] <cjwatson> davmor3: did you definitely select the "Xubuntu desktop" task in the installer?
[12:37] <cjwatson> (probably best to answer those questions in order ...)
[12:38] <cjwatson> ok, I have to go to bed, sorry, hopefully somebody else can run with the answers
[12:38] <asac> will be awake for another 15 minutes :)
[12:38] <asac> so davmor3 better answer fast :)
[12:38] <asac> cjwatson: night
[12:38] <davmor3> cjwatson: Yes I only selected xubuntu.
[12:39] <Kmos> davmor3: dpkg -l xubuntu-docs (run this command and show us the output)
[12:40] <davmor3> Kmos: I'll tell you dpkg -l says un xubuntu-docs
[12:40] <Jordan_U> Sorry if this is the wrong place, but ubuntu.com is down, is this schedualed? If not it is a bad time to be down on the eve of a new release.
[12:41] <davmor3> Kmos: anything else did I miss anything?
[12:41] <asac> davmor3: what iso did you download? daily? or daily-live?
[12:41] <davmor3> netboot
[12:41] <asac> davmor3: xubuntu-docs is not installed
[12:42] <shawarma> Jordan_U: I can see it right now.
[12:42] <shawarma> Jordan_U: It took a while, but it got there eventually.
[12:42] <asac> davmor3: can you drop that info to bug?
[12:42] <davmor3> okay I'm installing them then do I run the alternative line again?
[12:43] <asac> davmor3: no if you install it it should just work
[12:43] <asac> bug would be that its not installed by default
[12:43] <Jordan_U> shawarma, Timed out for me, I can ping it though, which is what makes me suspect it is just schedualed so they can change the home page
[12:43] <davmor3> yeap thanks
[12:44] <davmor3> it's alive :)
[12:44] <Kmos> ubuntu.com is very slowly :)
[12:44] <davmor3> nice one I'll add it to the report many thanks
[12:45] <shawarma> davmor3: You can probably do an 'apt-get install xubuntu-desktop^' and everything will be fine. Notice the ^ 
[12:46] <davmor3> shawarma: thanks everything else seems fine but I was reporting more from iso testing point of view than anything else.
[12:48] <shawarma> davmor3: Sure. It's appreciated.
[12:53] <davmor3> night
[02:04] <Riddell> Mithrandir: all Kubuntu DVDs good to go (as are CDs)
[02:25] <Enverex> Does Ubuntu have a "rolling version"?
[02:28] <ion_> Is a rocking version good enough?
[02:28] <cypherbios> lol
[02:28] <Enverex> ...
[02:29] <PriceChild> !release > Enverex 
[02:30] <Enverex> I know there are fixed releases every 6 months, that wasn't my question.
[06:28] <fabbione> morning
[06:29] <tonyyarusso> mornin'
[06:29] <tonyyarusso> Night here, but hey
[06:37] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[06:51] <nixternal> is it out yet?
[06:51] <nixternal> d'oh
[06:51] <tonyyarusso> lol nixternal - the release party's over there... ;)
[06:51] <nixternal> that didn't work good as a joke because I was scrolled up to 2 days ago when dholbach joined the channel :)
[06:51] <Mithrandir> Riddell: great, thanks.
[06:51] <Mithrandir> good morning everybody
[06:53] <fabbione> morning Mirv 
[06:53] <fabbione> AMEN
[06:53] <fabbione> morning Mithrandir 
[07:04] <Nergar> please all mighty devs, when will feisty be released???
[07:04] <ajmitch> morning Mithrandir 
[07:04] <ion_> Most likely this year.
[07:05] <Nergar> :(
[07:06] <Mithrandir> Nergar: #ubuntu+1 is too boring yet.  It needs to boil first.
[07:06] <Nergar> #ubuntu-release-party is getting crazy!
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:10] <ion_> Hi
[07:11] <dholbach> hi ion_
[07:12] <ajmitch> hey dholbach 
[07:13] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[07:13] <micahcowan> AWTY?
[07:13] <Mithrandir> Are We There Yet
[07:13] <dholbach> hey tollef
[07:13] <micahcowan> (not that any of 'em will actually start bothering to read the topic...)
[07:14] <Mithrandir> morning, Daniel.
[07:16] <fabbione> micahcowan: but we can point to it and if it becomes unbearable +m :)
[07:27] <tonyyarusso> dholbach, sabdfl, ajmitch, cjwatson, keescook, mako, mdz, BenC, whomever this is appropriate for:  We have #ubuntu-release-party if someone wants to drop by when the time comes and start the torrenting off with a bang.
[07:27] <RenatoSilva> BTW, is there a scheduled TIME?
[07:28] <tonyyarusso> Doubt it
[07:28] <ajmitch> RenatoSilva: when it's ready
[07:28] <RenatoSilva> I guess in London it's 11:28 pm
[07:29] <RenatoSilva> ajmitch: still working on it? :D desperated, making the final refinements? I'm developer, I know how it is :)
[07:30] <Mithrandir> actually, I'm just eating breakfast.  Can't release without breakfast.
[07:31] <tonyyarusso> lol, true
[07:31] <RenatoSilva> Mithrandir: uhauahuauahauhahua
[07:31] <RenatoSilva> true
[07:31] <Burgundavia> we need a quotebot
[08:57] <pitti> Good morning
[08:58] <Lathiat> howdy
[08:58] <fabbione> hi pitti
[08:58] <tonyyarusso> Hey pitti 
[08:59] <Hobbsee> hiya pitti, Lathiat, fabbione and tonyyarusso :)
[08:59] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[08:59] <Lathiat> howdy Hobbsee 
[08:59] <Lathiat> this could go all day.. ;)
[08:59] <Lathiat> "howdy everyone"
[08:59] <Mithrandir> hiya pitti, Hobbsee.
[09:00] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir :)
[09:00] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: heh
[09:00] <codingmaster> hey pitti :)
[09:07] <imbrandon> qqq
[09:07] <imbrandon> \
[09:08] <imbrandon> hrm
[09:09] <ion_> Record an empty macro into register q, do nothing for a while, move one character left and replace it with a m?
[09:23] <pitti> Hi Mithrandir! When you will .... have lunch today? :-P
[09:26] <Mithrandir> pitti: just after release, I think.
[09:26] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: I presume that's going to be a very late lunch, then.
[09:27] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: I hope and believe you are wrong.
[09:27] <Fujitsu> Oh, good.
[09:35] <Kljaver> We are all waiting!!! =)
[09:35] <Hobbsee> Kljaver: it's all a conspiracy.  it'll never release
[09:35] <Kljaver> Hobbsee, =D
[09:35] <kwah> hehe
[09:36] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: We'll converge to a release, but never quite get there?
[09:36] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: nah.  feisty is an illusion.  it's vaporware
[09:36] <heno> 'Eternity is a very long time, esp. towards the end.'
[09:37] <heno> (Woody Allen, I believe)
[09:42] <xarquid> Are any of you running beta's daily build release from April 15th and going to simply update using the Update Manager or will you guys/gals do a fresh install? Just curious :)
[09:42] <xarquid> Also, any of you actively on the Compiz bug? I see a few fixes in the packages that may resolve some of the issues in the repository database
[09:43] <kwah> will do update
[09:43] <xarquid> kwah, well I am but not technically the release ;p I'm not special like that yet!
[09:43] <kwah> don't think it will update anything %)
[09:43] <xarquid> i hear ya ;p
[09:44] <xarquid> Is there a list of contacts anywhere for certain bugs/applications in the releases? I may just be blind.
[09:45] <kwah> xarquid, hehe https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[09:45] <xarquid> I know the community board has a great list of contacts but do not necessarily go into detail about project managers
[09:46] <kwah> launchpad is your friend
[09:46] <xarquid> Aye, I use it hourly almost
[09:46] <xarquid> However, most of the Compiz bugs I see aren't assigned to a team?
[09:46] <jsgotangco> real men install and install until their hard drives die
[09:48] <Fujitsu> xarquid: That is a a problem?
[09:48] <Fujitsu> s/ a//
[09:48] <ion_> ggdG
[09:57] <xarquid> Fujitsu: Well, no. It's not a problem! I mean, what if I want to propose a fix? Just put it in the thread. I just do not know how to handle proposing fixes and/or taking responsibility for a fix if I have them.
[09:58] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl happy release day :)
[09:59] <Kljaver> jsgotangco, but where release o_O ?
[09:59] <jsgotangco> Kljaver: patience, the big red button will be pushed soon
[10:01] <tepsipakki> I thought it was orange..
[10:01] <JanDM> Is there really such button? :P
[10:02] <jsgotangco> it may not be red, but there is definitely a button
[10:02] <ivoks> no, it's green :)
[10:02] <kwah> led free?
[10:03] <kwah> a, no. it is just free.
[10:03] <Kljaver> =D kwah burning!!!
[10:04] <Kljaver> =)
[10:04] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: depends on which machine I use.  White, blue or black.  All with a bit of brown dirt on them.
[10:04] <JanDM> Fujitsu: I think it's a 'human' style button...
[10:04] <Mithrandir> JanDM: that wasn't an option when I bought my thinkpad.
[10:04] <Fujitsu> JanDM: You think?
[10:05] <JanDM> Minthrandir: ow is it a real button
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: A blue keyboard? Never seen one of them before.
[10:05] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: no, just the enter key.  Actually, closer to indigo.
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Oh, that strange ThinkPad colour.
[10:05] <mdz> morning
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Hi mdz.
[10:05] <Kljaver> mdz, q!
[10:06] <ivoks> Mithrandir: so, you already have ./release-now and just waiting to hit enter? :)
[10:06] <JanDM> ivoks: he is just teasing us and laughing at the forums :)
[10:06] <Mithrandir> ivoks: the actual command is "sync-mirrors", but yes.
[10:06] <Mithrandir> and I haven't typed it into a terminal yet.
[10:06] <ivoks> :)
[10:07] <pitti> hey mdz, good morning
[10:07] <tepsipakki> is the knownissues-page kept open for editing after release?
[10:08] <Nafallo> hehe
[10:09] <Nafallo> I woke up before release atleast :-)
[10:10] <mdz> tepsipakki: I suppose, but users won't be pointed to that page. why?
[10:12] <tepsipakki> mdz: oh ok, who is it for then?
[10:12] <mdz> tepsipakki: it was a scratch space for writing the release notes
[10:13] <tepsipakki> mdz: ok
[10:16] <pitti> wow, one of those rare days where update-notifier does not jump at me in the morning ;)
[10:16] <fabbione> eheh
[10:17] <Kljaver> hehe =)
[10:18] <fiery_cleric> exit
[10:19] <ion_> pitti: :-)
[10:23] <jsgotangco> absolute mayhem
[10:24] <Kljaver> http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/   is there release?
[10:25] <jsgotangco> i would advise waiting for the annoucement, its not like you'll run out of iso
[10:26] <Kljaver> oops
[10:27] <cjwatson> Kljaver: no, not until the release manager says so
[10:28] <cjwatson> nothing there right now is final
[10:28] <Kljaver> ok
[10:28] <Treenaks> (except the isos for older releases: 6.06.*, 6.10, etc.)
[10:29] <Treenaks> (I guess)
[10:29] <jsgotangco> its a shame that some people are downloading the wrong images now
[10:29] <cjwatson> oh, sure, not final feisty I mean
[10:30] <phire> it always happens
[10:30] <phire> every single time
[10:31] <jsgotangco> the last updates i got were for update-manager and update-manager-core
[10:31] <cjwatson> there were several kernel upgrades before final
[10:31] <cjwatson> there were none planned after -15.27
[10:31] <hunger> cjwatson: Yeap... but -15 is absolutely instable. I went back to -13 again.
[10:31] <ivoks> it would be great to work on update of dapper now
[10:32] <ivoks> latest 3ware controllers and intel gigabit cards don't work :/
[10:32] <Fujitsu> fabbione: You are brave.
[10:32] <fabbione> Fujitsu: why?
[10:32] <fabbione> there is nothing wrong in explaining to people
[10:32] <cjwatson> hunger: bug#? (it won't be fixed pre-release now but might be fixable in an update
[10:32] <cjwatson> )
[10:33] <hunger> cjwatson: I didn't report it since it a) crashes randomly and b) I was told there will be a new version anyway.
[10:34] <cjwatson> information like b) is typically unreliable and there is no reason why it should fix your problem if it's not reported
[10:34] <cjwatson> there isn't a crash_now() function that was inserted by accident ;-) it would need investigation
[10:35] <hunger> cjwatson: Yeap. And with that I can not help, so there is not much sense with writing a bugreport:-(
[10:35] <cjwatson> then I'm afraid it is unlikely that your problem will be fixed except by dumb luck
[10:35] <hunger> cjwatson: My box just freezes after a while:-(
[10:35] <tepsipakki> hunger: broken memory?
[10:35] <pitti> hunger: nothing in kern.log after reboot?
[10:36] <\sh> pitti: moins...question: is it possible (for later) to switch off apport for special packages/apps?
[10:36] <hunger> tepsipakki: Kernel -13 works like a charm, never had any crash with that, so I'd guess it is unlikely.
[10:36] <pitti> \sh: such a thing is on the TODO list
[10:36] <pitti>  - support /etc/apport/blacklist.d/ for check_ignored(): one exe
[10:36] <pitti>    per line
[10:36] <hunger> pitti: Nothing useful:-( Not even a Oops or anything.
[10:37] <pitti> \sh: I didn't squeeze it into feisty, because u-n won't report apport crashes by default
[10:38] <\sh> pitti: cool...and will it be possible to set a different backtrace functionality for special packages/apps? (I'm thinking about wine, just because we would need there the winedbg debugger app)
[10:38] <pitti> \sh: not  sure what you mean; but you can certainly add a package hook
[10:38] <pitti> \sh: /usr/share/doc/apport/package-hooks.txt
[10:39] <\sh> pitti: thx a lot ... that's all I need to know:)
[10:48] <jsgotangco> Seveas: +1
[10:56] <Mithrandir> heno: fwiw, i386 dvd with server seems happy for me on real hardware.
[10:57] <jsgotangco> wow that's like a year old bug
[10:57] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:57] <jsgotangco> oopss
[10:58] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: it's a bug  that i386dvd looks happy?
[10:58] <jsgotangco> no no no remember  bug 20247
[10:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 20247 in netcfg "WEP key setting doesn't work on IPW2200 without "restricted"" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20247
[10:59] <heno> Mithrandir: cool. I tested the server CD in virtual box and that fails too, so it seems cjwatson is right that vbox doesn't like the server kernel
[10:59] <Mithrandir> heno: sucks to be vbox. :-P
[10:59] <cjwatson> jsgotangco: I'm just clearing up my +assignedbugs page, that's all
[10:59] <jsgotangco> ahh
[11:00] <juliux> hi, did anybody know why there are no jigdo files for the desktop isos?
[11:00] <cjwatson> juliux: it would be pointless
[11:01] <cjwatson> juliux: jigdo has no idea how to disassemble a squashfs
[11:01] <cjwatson> juliux: so you'd basically get a .template roughly equivalent in size to the .iso
[11:01] <juliux> cjwatson, ah thanks
[11:01] <juliux> cjwatson, i was just wondering
[11:03] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: oh wow, that's my bug, even
[11:10] <sabdfl> hey jsgotangco - to you too!
[11:10] <seb128> hi sabdfl
[11:10] <juliux> hi sabdfl 
[11:10] <\sh> moins sabdfl
[11:12] <ajmitch> hehe
[11:12] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: is it still the 19th there? hehe
[11:13] <ajmitch> sure
[11:13] <ajmitch> just after 9pm
[11:13] <ajmitch> it's funny how so many people are on the edge of their seats
[11:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:14] <ajmitch> this is probably the calmest ubuntu channel of the lot
[11:14] <jsgotangco> its alright, their anticipation is a good thing
[11:14] <jsgotangco> well its a good diversion so as not to have them flood here
[11:15] <\sh> ajmitch: I have to update 350 servers and more still counting with some pam.d changes regarding ldap...:( 
[11:15] <ajmitch> \sh: lots of fun
[11:15] <jsgotangco> 350!
[11:15] <fabbione> \sh: if the change is the same all over, just script it
[11:15] <\sh> jsgotangco: more 
[11:16] <fabbione> there is a cluster ssh something to do exactly that
[11:16] <jsgotangco> so you do fai stuff over there?
[11:16] <\sh> fabbione: yepp...I scripted it already...
[11:16] <\sh> jsgotangco: nope..those machines are in production...so a live change ;()
[11:17] <\sh> jsgotangco: doing normal for|ssh|sed|awk|done stuff ,->
[11:17] <jsgotangco> fun edge on your seat scenario
[11:17] <\sh> fabbione: not on sles9
[11:18] <\sh> well, you can listen to some internals during froscon...I'll talk about FAI/HP OpenView ServiceDesk/Deployment etc. together with thomas lange
[11:20] <ajmitch> \sh: what's the pam change?
[11:27] <Chipzz> \sh: do you know dsh? :)
[11:28] <\sh> ajmitch: adding ldap to all machines which are not already connected to ldap...so doing changes to login/ssh
[11:28] <ajmitch> ah fun
[11:38] <Kljaver> i feel release will come very soon (release/source/)
[11:39] <xarquid> so most of these people in ubuntu-release-party are killing my eyes. *rubs*
[11:40] <jsgotangco> alright im going home, happy release day everyone ciao
[11:40] <xarquid> cya js
[11:40] <ajmitch> see you later, jsgotangco 
[11:56] <juliux> can someboy check the bittorrent tracker?
[11:58] <Kljaver> juliux, for what?
[11:59] <juliux> Kljaver, i get an error if i try to seed the feisty isos: rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.
[12:00] <Kljaver> juliux, is already release? i dont understand!
[12:00] <JanDM> juliux, just wait before it's released
[12:00] <juliux> it is on the mirros;)
[12:00] <Kljaver> where?
[12:00] <Kljaver> O_O
[12:00] <cjwatson> we have an announcement list for this
[12:01] <cjwatson> use it and wait for the mail to arrive
[12:01] <xarquid> what you see on the mirrors is either from the 15th or your simply see directories dated the 19th.
[12:01] <mvo> pitti: #96244 is ready (modulo feisty-proposed of course)
[12:01] <juliux> xarquid, i see an iso from today
[12:02] <Kljaver> xarquid, yes you are right
[12:02] <pitti> mvo: thanks
[12:04] <xarquid> i know, i was just telling jul
[12:04] <pygi> hi mvo, pitti 
[12:04] <xarquid> i think some of these people are now =delirious ... maybe.
[12:05] <Kljaver> =D
[12:05] <mvo> hey pygi!
[12:06] <pygi> mvo, how is it? :)
[12:06] <ajmitch> hey pygi, mvo 
[12:11] <mvo> hey ajmitch
[12:11] <mvo> pygi: good, thanks. good tea, release day, sunshine. do I have to say more ;) ?
[12:11] <Kljaver> http://releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/   what is it?
[12:11] <pygi> mvo, no :)
[12:12] <pygi> mvo, glad to hear ^_^
[12:15] <seb128> doko: did you look at the python bug with setlocale I mentioned some time ago?
[12:15] <seb128> $ LC_ALL=de_DE.UTF-8 python -c "import locale; locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')"
[12:15] <seb128> Traceback (most recent call last):
[12:15] <seb128>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
[12:15] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/locale.py", line 476, in setlocale
[12:15] <seb128>     return _setlocale(category, locale)
[12:15] <seb128> locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
[12:16] <seb128> doko: we have several bug of apps crashing this way and it would be nice to know if they all should have a try, except or if if that's a python bug
[12:17] <Mitario> mvo: hey :)
[12:17] <Mitario> dholbach: quite a bit quiter here :)
[12:18] <saispo> first update for feisty is thunderbird 2 ? ;)
[12:18] <mvo> Mitario: hello! long time not seen :) 
[12:18] <dholbach> yeh, not quite that frantic
[12:18] <seb128> saispo: no new versions to stable
[12:18] <Mitario> mvo: indeed :) hi! how are you?
[12:18] <ajmitch> it had better be quieter here..
[12:18] <ajmitch> time to start on specs 
[12:18] <saispo> hi seb128 :)
[12:18] <Mitario> ajmitch: seconded
[12:18] <seb128> lu saispo
[12:19] <mvo> Mitario: good! and you?
[12:19] <saispo> great work to all ubuntu devellopers !
[12:19] <xarquid> this is like paradise for my eyes compared to the other rooms :)
[12:19] <saispo> this release is very impressive and work very well
[12:19] <Mitario> mvo: quite well :) been busy in dutch politics last 3/4 - 1 year
[12:19] <Mitario> mvo: but my term ends in a month so will be going active in the ubuntu/gnome community quite soon
[12:20] <mvo> Mitario: w00t!
[12:20] <mvo> Mitario: we will be happy to have you back :-D
[12:20] <Mitario> haha, thanks :) me too
[12:20] <Mitario> mvo: i saw your great work on update-manager btw
[12:20] <Mitario> and others probably ;)
[12:20] <Kljaver> Congratulations to all!!!
[12:20] <Kljaver> =D
[12:21] <Mitario> mvo: but i'll cheer you up for it
[12:21] <mvo> Mitario: :) thanks - glatzor was pretty active too the last couple of months on it
[12:21] <Mitario> ok :) great
[12:23] <Kljaver> http://www.ubuntu.com/  IS DOWN!!! =P
[12:23] <Mitario> mvo: the dist upgrade functionality really works well
[12:23] <Mitario> how it will work today as well ;)
[12:23] <ivoks> congratz everyone (i have to go)
[12:23] <xarquid> cya ivoks
[12:23] <ivoks> this will be the best release til now
[12:23] <Mitario> ivoks: i say that with every ubuntu release ;)
[12:24] <Mitario> ivoks: cheers to you
[12:24] <ivoks> Mitario: well, i didn't with edgy :)
[12:24] <ivoks> bye
[12:47] <iwj> Bloody hell, the `logout' option on this edubuntu install doesn't work.
[12:48] <iwj> Oh, that's because I logged in twice as the same user and it broke everything.
[12:49] <xarquid>   Something you wouldn't regularly see lately though, good to know lol
[12:52] <ubotu> Malone bug 67366 in ltsp "LDM does not warn when a user is already logged in" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67366
[12:54] <ogra> iwj, yesterday specced for UDS ;)
[12:56] <iwj> Oh, good.
[12:56] <iwj> TBPB it's _hopelessly lame_ that you can't log in more than once.
[12:56] <iwj> bug 107672 even
[12:56] <ubotu> Malone bug 107672 in gnome-session "multiple logins by same user" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107672
[12:57] <seb128> yet another dup? ;)
[12:57] <iwj> I couldn't find any existing report.
[12:57] <seb128> hum, in fact not exactly
[12:58] <seb128> there was a bug on gdm to not let an user log in twice
[12:58] <pygi> seb128, hi ho, long time no see =)
[12:58] <seb128> which has been fixed, it uses the previous session
[12:58] <iwj> seb128: That would be sensible.
[12:58] <iwj> But my complaint is that you ought to be allowed to dammit.
[12:58] <seb128> but you use 2 boxes which is a new corner case ;)
[12:58] <seb128> right
[12:58] <iwj> Bug 67366 is about the fact that it let me do it.
[12:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 67366 in ltsp "LDM does not warn when a user is already logged in" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67366
[12:58] <iwj> Bug 107672 is about the fact that it ought to have worked.
[12:58] <ubotu> Malone bug 107672 in gnome-session "multiple logins by same user" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107672
[12:58] <seb128> hi pygi
[12:59] <iwj> So please rewrite the whole of gnome.  Perhaps you can preview it for UDS for us.
[12:59] <cjwatson> heh
[12:59] <pygi> iwj, ehm ...
[01:00] <iwj> You're talking to the submitter of Debian #1708 here :-).  I don't expect my bugs to get fixed ...
[01:01] <iwj> 12:00 <ubotu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian bugtracker: need more than 1 value to unpack
[01:01] <seb128> ;)
[01:01] <pygi> seb128, will we fix this cd-recording stuff finally this year? :-)
[01:01] <seb128> pygi: would be nice ;)
[01:03] <thom> hasn't that been said every release since hoglet? :-)
[01:03] <Riddell> Seveas: I feel so left out at not have an @ sign in -party
[01:03] <pygi> thom, what? :)
[01:04] <pygi> thom, you mean about the burning?
[01:04] <thom> pygi: yeah
[01:04] <pygi> thom, perhaps ^_^
[01:04] <ogra> seb128, i'll have a thin client with me in sevilla, lets have a look at that there, since i plan some ldm sessions :)
[01:04] <ogra> s/sessions/BOFs/
[01:04] <pygi> thom, we'll see how it goes ^_^
[01:05] <seb128> ogra: k
[01:05] <thom> pygi: *g*
[01:05] <pygi> seb128, thom : you ought to be in #ubuntu-burning :P
[01:05] <seb128> too many chans already ;)
[01:05] <pygi> although no one is ever there
[01:05] <thom> pygi: i'm not that interested, just amused :-)
[01:06] <pygi> thom, ok, it'll still be fixed ^_^ Just be patient pls :)
[01:06] <pygi> You was patient for 20 years already so :P
[01:06] <ajmitch> pygi: isn't schily's cdrecord good enough? :)
[01:07] <pygi> ajmitch, sure, I didn't mention any application or anything =)
[01:07] <ogra> iwj, gnome upstream is working on consolekit, that defines a "seats" mechanism it assigns the apps to, i guess that will solve the problem once and for all at some point
[01:07] <Lutin> Mithrandir: are you around ?
[01:07] <Mithrandir> Lutin: yes, why?
[01:07] <pygi> ajmitch, I'm not allowed to talk to much in this channel like I used to before :(
[01:07] <ajmitch> pygi: not allowed?
[01:07] <pygi> exactly ^_^
[01:08] <Lutin> Mithrandir: I've got an issue with the cinepaint package. actually it got accepted and built for all archs, but only released for amd64
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Lutin: uh, the binaries might have gotten lost.
[01:09] <cjwatson> failed-to-move is empty
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Lutin: can you email ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com about it?
[01:09] <cjwatson> (phew)
[01:09] <Mithrandir> I'm ever-so-slightly busy.
[01:09] <Lutin> Mithrandir: okay
[01:09] <Mithrandir> thanks
[01:10] <iwj> Assigns the apps to `seats' ?  I doubt that will really help.
[01:10] <cjwatson> 08:16:02 INFO    Rejected:
[01:10] <cjwatson> 08:16:02 INFO    Exception while accepting: ERROR:  duplicate key violates unique constraint "distroreleasequeuebuild__distroreleasequeue__build__unique"
[01:10] <cjwatson> (cinepaint)
[01:10] <cjwatson> fun fun fun
[01:11] <cjwatson> absolutely no idea why that happened
[01:11] <pygi> thom, so all I can say is ... be patient :)
[01:11] <iwj> ogra: I'm not sure what that means exactly but it sounds like only one of your sessions will be able to run each app ?  Which is a bit bad.
[01:11] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I suggest we just do an -updates no-change-rebuild.
[01:11] <pygi> seb128, how would you feel about blocking n-c-b to overburn? (if it can do that)
[01:11] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I guess
[01:11] <seb128> pygi: blocking?
[01:11] <iwj> Of course the main application you might want to do this with is .... firefox!  And that's not going to work properly any time soon.
[01:12] <pygi> seb128, ergh, well, removing the chunk of code that allows overburn
[01:12] <ajmitch> pygi: why?
[01:12] <ajmitch> does overburning break things in weird ways?
[01:12] <pygi> ajmitch, because overburning is not good =)
[01:12] <seb128> pygi: why?
[01:13] <seb128> pygi: it's useful
[01:13] <pygi> but oh well, what do I know =)
[01:13] <pygi> seb128, in some situations perhaps, yes
[01:13] <pygi> oh well, I'm quiet :)
[01:13] <seb128> it's not un-usual to have an iso oversized
[01:14] <seb128> and being able to write it on a CD is nice
[01:16] <iwj> ogra: The student control panel thing (called `thin client manager' in the menu unlike the instructions in Testing/Short) is quite impressive.
[01:17] <ogra> thanks
[01:17] <ogra> its still not done ... we planned far more features .-... (iCafe support ... billing backend, better vnc support)
[01:18] <Fujitsu> I particularly like the tiled VNC viewers.
[01:18] <ogra> yeah they are cool if they update :) but you still have to set up x112vnc manually thats a big backdraw gutsy needs to fix...
[01:18] <iwj> Why can't this thin client access www.ubuntu.com ?  It can do everything else ...
[01:19] <ogra> can your server access it ?
[01:19] <iwj> Oh, no, here it is.  Maybe the server was just being slow.
[01:19] <pygi> heh :)
[01:19] <pygi> iwj, it is too slow, yes
[01:19] <ajmitch> because there are a lot of people checking to see if feisty is release
[01:19] <ogra> yeah it was ... the whole morning :)
[01:19] <ogra> should be a lot better now
[01:19] <jsgotangco> ZOMG want feisty
[01:20] <pygi> get it then xD
[01:20] <hunger> Will the new ATI drivers make it into feisty soonish? They are supposed to fix bugs only and add support vor kernel 2.6.20.
[01:20] <jsgotangco> damn my fingers almost got bonded by super glue
[01:20] <pitti> hunger: feisty is closed
[01:21] <rytmisk> Hi I have an apt bug after upgrading - a helpful guy in #ubuntu-desktop refered me here
[01:21] <hunger> pitti: There will be updates at some point I hope:-)
[01:21] <AlinuxOS> hello all! :)
[01:22] <rytmisk> It is a long list in the line of
[01:22] <rytmisk> E: dmsetup: underprosessen post-installation script returnerte feilstatus 1 
[01:22] <ajmitch> rytmisk: I saw the conversation in ubuntu-desktop, is /boot full?
[01:23] <rytmisk> in norwegian = sub process post-installation script returnedNo 4.8 gb free
[01:23] <rytmisk> according to nautilus
[01:23] <iwj> ogra: And generally I should say that despite the beatings I keep giving you about bugs and things, I'm impressed with how smooth and functional the edubuntu ltsp setup is.
[01:23] <ajmitch> alright, it was just one of the more obvious reasons for things failing that I've had :)
[01:24] <rytmisk> 4.8 gb should be sufficient
[01:24] <rytmisk> Good tip!
[01:24] <ogra> iwj, i appreciate your feedback, its not "beatings" :)
[01:24] <ogra> and thanks :D
[01:25] <ogra> you find many things no user ever reports to me, thats immensely important for me
[01:25] <pygi> iwj, you mean the ltsp even works? :-)
[01:26] <ogra> pygi, it manages pretty well to pretend that i'd say :)
[01:35] <Monk-e> Congrats on feisty.
[01:36] <ogra> not yet :)
[01:37] <Monk-e> Kind of.
[01:38] <bhale> its not over until the fat troll sings (slashdot)
[01:59] <jsgotangco> dinner brb
[02:01] <shawarma> Are the iso's at http://releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/ the final ones? I'm just wondering if there's any point in starting to seed the via bittorrent already.
[02:02] <jsgotangco> 630+ people in #ubuntu-release-party is asking the same thing
[02:02] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:02] <shawarma> fabbione: *G*
[02:02] <fabbione> shawarma: no... no point the trackers are not available yet
[02:03] <fabbione> and the images are not final until we announce so
[02:03] <shawarma> Sorry. My screen isn't wide enough to show the entire topic. I didn't notice.
[02:19] <xarquid> This is the time to prove that VIRUSES can -prevail- in Linux/Ubuntu if you download the wrong ISO/Torrent.
[02:29] <doko> seb128: no, buz just checked, and it works for me. did you generate the de_DE.UTF-8 locales?
[02:32] <jsgotangco> christ
[02:32] <cjwatson> doko: the bug is precisely asking whether an exception is the right thing to do if the locale doesn't exist
[02:33] <cjwatson> it's usually unnecessary to fall over and die if a locale is missing, IME, but shrug
[02:33] <cjwatson> I suppose there ought to be some way for programs that do care to know
[02:40] <seb128> doko: no, that's what the bug is about
[02:40] <seb128> doko: I think it should fallback to C and not break when you don't have the locale
[02:43] <doko> cjwatson, seb128: well, if language-support-xx would generate the locales, we would have a lot less reports. anyway, what was the bug number?
[02:44] <seb128> doko: there is bugs on random apps, not on python
[02:44] <seb128> I was asking if I should open one on python and dup them
[02:44] <cjwatson> doko: I don't think that would be any excuse
[02:44] <seb128> or if apps are to change
[02:44] <cjwatson> anyway, language-pack-xx generates the locales
[02:45] <cjwatson> language-pack-xx-base rather
[02:45] <cjwatson> as in fact does language-support-xx
[02:45] <cjwatson> but there is no requirement to have either installed when you're trying something random out
[02:54] <doko> cjwatson, seb128: how could that be done?
[02:54] <doko>     if (locale) {
[02:54] <doko>         /* set locale */
[02:54] <doko>         result = setlocale(category, locale);
[02:54] <doko>         if (!result) {
[02:54] <doko>             /* operation failed, no setting was changed */
[02:54] <doko>             PyErr_SetString(Error, "unsupported locale setting");
[02:54] <doko>             return NULL;
[02:54] <doko>         }
[02:55] <doko> cjwatson, seb128: setlocale(3) returns NULL, nothing else, or can I set the locale in another way?
[02:56] <doko> "The return value is NULL if the request cannot be honored."
[02:56] <cjwatson> it could ... not throw an exception? :P
[02:56] <cjwatson> that would be an upstream decision though
[02:56] <cjwatson> I think in the meantime applications should clearly catch setlocale exceptions and ignore them
[02:56] <cjwatson> in almost every possible case
[02:56] <doko> cjwatson: no, that would mean to deviate from upstream.
[02:56] <cjwatson> doko: I don't think seb is necessarily suggesting the change shouldn't be made upstream.
[02:57] <seb128> I'm asking whether that's a python bug or not
[02:57] <tepsipakki> whoa, check slashdot :P
[02:57] <doko> cjwatson: ahh, ok. will take it upstream; 2.6 is still long away; and such kind of change will not happen in the 2.5 branch, so better check in the applications
[02:57] <seb128> doko: ok, that's what I wanted to know
[02:58] <seb128> thanks
[02:58] <seb128> doko: could you suggest them to change it for 2.6 though?
[02:59] <doko> seb128, cjwatson: I can do it, but I fail to see the reason. why not change setlocale(3) in glibc then to ignore it?
[02:59] <cjwatson> setlocale(3) doesn't throw an exception, it just returns NULL
[02:59] <cjwatson> most C programs ignore the result of setlocale(3), but that's because in C it doesn't take much effort to do so
[03:00] <cjwatson> in python you need to actively work to do so
[03:00] <cjwatson> in most cases this is a good thing but arguably less so in this case
[03:00] <doko> it's an error condition, which is signalled else in python and C
[03:00] <cjwatson> yes, but C->python ought not to be a mechanical translation
[03:00] <seb128> C program don't segfault on it
[03:00] <seb128> python program do stop on a exception
[03:00] <cjwatson> turning good C APIs into good Python APIs requires actual thought, so I don't buy mechanical arguments
[03:01] <doko> I could imagine an additionaloptional parameter to ignore errors for the C API
[03:01] <cjwatson> it should be a warning, not an error
[03:02] <jsgotangco> PriceChild: err what's with the ban heh..
[03:02] <PriceChild> jsgotangco, you were hit by a DCC attack.
[03:02] <PriceChild> !dcc > jsgotangco 
[03:02] <jsgotangco> ouchie
[03:03] <PriceChild> jsgotangco, join #pricechild and ping me for a test when ready :)
[03:03] <jsgotangco> thanks
[03:03] <seb128> doko: 
[03:03] <seb128> bug #88638
[03:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 88638 in pitivi "[apport]  pitivi crashed with Error in setlocale()" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88638
[03:03] <seb128> bug #81556
[03:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 81556 in exaile "[apport]  exaile crashed with Error in setlocale()" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81556
[03:03] <seb128> bug #90525
[03:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 90525 in hwdb-client "[apport]  hwdb-gui crashed with Error in setlocale()" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90525
[03:03] <seb128> doko: etc
[03:04] <seb128> doko: pitivi upstream says that it uses to no break, maybe that's new with python2.5
[03:04] <doko> seb128: ok, thanks, but better fix these as long as we use 2.5
[03:05] <seb128> doko: can't we distro patch python rather than patching a zillion of apps?
[03:07] <cjwatson> the obvious concern is that some things might actually have a legitimate reason to care that setlocale fails
[03:07] <cjwatson> I can't think of any offhand, but it's imaginable
[03:07] <cjwatson> so those programs would break if we patched python, and there would be no obvious compatible way to fix them
[03:08] <doko> seb128: IMO it's a very bad idea to deviate from upstream. do you know why this happens with en_US.UTF-8 and en_GB.UTF-8? these locales should be present on every system
[03:09] <cjwatson> the only locales that a sane program is allowed to expect to exist on every system are C and POSIX
[03:09] <Mithrandir> doko: why would they be present on every system?
[03:09] <seb128> doko: they use 'locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')'
[03:09] <seb128> hum
[03:09] <seb128> dunno
[03:09] <doko> Mithrandir: well, on every desktop system
[03:09] <cjwatson> there is a very common reason why you might set a locale that does not exist on your system
[03:10] <cjwatson> ssh forwards your LANG and LC_* environment variables
[03:10] <cjwatson> this is usually a good thing, because it means you get the same character encoding and such at the other end
[03:10] <Mithrandir> doko: you didn't anwer my question; there's no real reason for me to have en_GB or en_US installed.
[03:10] <cjwatson> but it is incredibly annoying when silly programs decide that the appropriate response to the locale not existing is to crash, rather than just carrying on
[03:11] <radevil> like cedega
[03:11] <cjwatson> doko: en_US.UTF-8 doesn't exist on chinstrap
[03:11] <doko> Mithrandir: I'm wondering why people do see this very often, even with locales which are generated on every desktop install. cjwatson: chinstrap doesn't have a desktop install afaik
[03:11] <cjwatson> any of our developers with LANG=en_US.UTF-8 locally who sshes to chinstrap, by default, will find that python programs that use locale.setlocale will crash
[03:12] <cjwatson> doko: oh, for goodness' sake. Since when was Python only for desktop installations?
[03:12] <cjwatson> let's say man were implemented in Python
[03:12] <cjwatson> it could easily be - it's not, but it could be
[03:12] <cjwatson> it does setlocale()
[03:12] <cjwatson> or let's take a more realistic example
[03:12] <cjwatson> bzr
[03:13] <Fujitsu> Um, all of the announcements on ubuntu.com are dated the 16th. That might want to be fixed.
[03:13] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: they went out early for the PR company
[03:13] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Ah, I see.
[03:13] <doko> cjwatson: calm down, I'm not saying that python is only used on the desktop ;-) , the cited bug reports were for desktop applications only.
[03:13] <cjwatson> doko: bzr definitely crashed due to this not that long ago
[03:14] <cjwatson> I think it's been fixed now, but still
[03:14] <cjwatson> I agree with you that it's not a good idea to deviate from upstream
[03:18] <seb128> doko: bug #91583 is a non-desktop one ;)
[03:18] <ubotu> Malone bug 91583 in apt-listchanges "[apport]  apt-listchanges crashed with Error in setlocale()" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91583
[03:19] <cjwatson> I think we're stuck with patching all the applications for now, anyway
[03:19] <cr3> cjwatson: thanks for your message to Selbak about logging bugs as "private for unreleased hardware". do you think this is worth addressing in a generic sense to formalize a new feature for malone?
[03:20] <cr3> crap, that's off topic in here, sorry folks :(
[03:20] <cjwatson> cr3: the feature used to exist in Malone and was deliberately disabled
[03:20] <cjwatson> for UI reasons
[03:20] <cjwatson> so I'm not holding my breath
[03:21] <cr3> cjwatson: but as more commercial users start using malone, the lack of such a feature might become increasingly problematic
[03:22] <cjwatson> cr3: I would certainly love to have something better than filing them as security vulnerabilities
[03:25] <danielk> hey
[03:25] <dholbach> hi danielk
[03:26] <danielk> hey ho dholbach
[03:26] <Hobbsee> hi danielk, dholbach 
[03:26] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[03:26] <danielk> hey Hobbsee
[03:36] <doko> cjwatson, seb128: http://python.org/sf/1703592
[03:37] <cjwatson> thanks
[03:37] <seb128> doko: danke
[03:42] <mc44> is the bit in FeistyUpgrades about edgy server upgrades right? update-manager-core doesnt appear to be in edgy according to someone on a server install
[03:43] <mvo_> mc44: its in edgy-updates
[03:43] <mc44> mvo_: aha thanks :)
[03:44] <mvo_> cheers
[03:52] <jg> People, Ubuntu *really* needs to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94112
[03:52] <ubotu> Malone bug 94112 in Ubuntu "old-style fstab not updated during system upgrade" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[03:52] <cjwatson> err, it really should have been - that generally *was* done
[03:53] <jg> heh.  I lost yesterday afternoon.
[03:53] <cjwatson> don't upgrade direct from dapper to feisty though
[03:53] <jg> upgrade was from Edgy.
[03:53] <cjwatson> perhaps you could help us debug that with reference to /var/lib/dpkg/info/volumeid.postinst, which is supposed to do that migration?
[03:54] <jg> cjwatson: there is no case for /dev/hda? in the case statement....
[03:55] <cjwatson> there doesn't need to be, it's included in /dev/*
[03:55] <StevenK>         if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt "093-0ubuntu5"; then
[03:56] <jg> cjwatson: my shell is too rusty to help much...  I've grown pointy hair...
[03:56] <StevenK> That seems to strike me as backwards, and I don't know why.
[03:56] <robertj> is the release officially out now? tis on the top of /.
[03:56] <cjwatson> "if version we're upgrading from is older than 093-0ubuntu5, then do the migration"
[03:57] <pitti> hm, should really be lt-nl, but that shouldn't cause this bug
[03:57] <jg> cjwatson: here's the scenario, I think that caused me to lose....
[03:57] <jg> I think checking the version is a *bad* idea.
[03:57] <pitti> or, no, maybe not
[03:57] <jg> I had a flaky motherboard, but thought it was my disk.
[03:57] <jg> I got file system damage.
[03:57] <jg> I went and got another disk.
[03:57] <cjwatson> the problem is that if you don't do that then the migration happens over and over and over again
[03:58] <cjwatson> and people who have some problem and really need to go back to mount-by-something-else lose
[03:58] <jg> Did a fresh install of Edgy, and then moved my /home back.
[03:58] <jg> using the "normal" old fashioned syntax.
[03:58] <cjwatson> could you drop this in the bug? The udev maintainer is on holiday today, so information on IRC is liable to get lost
[03:59] <jg> I think you need to see if /dev/hda? exists, and go from there, rather than key it on version.
[03:59] <jg> ok, I'll add to the bug.
[04:00] <cjwatson> it's not as straightforward as that, because not all devices have moved from /dev/hd*
[04:00] <jg> cjwatson: If I were you, I'd mark this as a pretty severe problem; you end up with a unusable system....
[04:01] <delire> agreed
[04:01] <jg> one that is beyond most randoms to debug.
[04:01] <cjwatson> jg: I've raised the importance to high
[04:01] <jg> My shell may be rusty,  but I've been around the block a *very* long time.
[04:02] <cjwatson> I do think we need some way to make sure the migration doesn't happen multiple times, but perhaps by-version isn't best
[04:02] <jg> heh.  I'd sure echo that...
[04:12] <psusi> is there a package to assign bugs to that deal with the livecd packaging rather than with a specific package itself?
[04:13] <seb128> psusi: what do you mean by "packaging"?
[04:13] <cjwatson> psusi: what about the live CD packaging?
[04:13] <psusi> as in there is a problem with the way the livecd was packaged
[04:13] <cjwatson> detail, man
[04:13] <psusi> as opposed to a bug in one of the packages of software on it
[04:14] <psusi> well, the amd64 feisty build does not have gparted on it
[04:14] <psusi> but the i386 cd does
[04:14] <cjwatson> I thought I fixed that before release
[04:14] <psusi> ohh, has the release been made?  I just tested this with the beta cd 2-3 days ago
[04:14] <cjwatson> ubuntu-7.04-desktop-amd64.manifest:gparted 0.2.5-2ubuntu2
[04:14] <cjwatson> psusi: it's there
[04:14] <psusi> ok... cool
[04:15] <cjwatson> was a post-beta change
[04:15] <psusi> for future reference though, is there somewhere such a bug should be assigned?  it doesnt seem like it should be assigned to the gparted package
[04:15] <cjwatson> the bug would have been ubuntu-meta in this particular case
[04:15] <cjwatson> but there are a number of different aspects of live CD "packaging"
[04:15] <jdong> cjwatson: you think we can shoot for a newer gparted in Gutsy?
[04:16] <cjwatson> jdong: I've ceased caring about gparted, since ubiquity doesn't use it any more
[04:16] <psusi> does anyone here happen to know gparted's internals well?  I noticed it had a regression in feisty too... it no longer lists dmraid devices in the disk drop down menu
[04:17] <psusi> was wondering how it chooses what devices to list in there
[04:18] <cjwatson> I think that was an upstream change
[04:18] <seb128> psusi: I don't think anybody is actively maintaining gparted for Ubuntu atm
[04:18] <seb128> upstream would be the best bet for that
[04:18] <cjwatson> IIRC it prods /proc/partitions
[04:18] <cjwatson> it deliberately excludes dm-*, loop*, ram*
[04:18] <psusi> k
[04:19] <psusi> oh really?  since the last release they made it do that?
[04:19] <cjwatson> I don't recall exactly, best check upstream
[04:19] <cjwatson> it may have changed again since the version we have
[04:19] <cjwatson> we had trouble upgrading easily since we had to carry a huge patch for ubiquity integration
[04:20] <psusi> odd... since there has been a bug filed for ages that upstream supposedly has been working on to get it to work _correctly_ with dm devices, since before it couldn't update the partitions then say, format the new partition since dm doesn't support the BLKPRT ioctl
[04:20] <cjwatson> that can probably be thrown away now - ubiquity in gutsy won't support using gparted
[04:24] <\sh> http://www-static.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/purchase is not displayed correctly on firefox ... plain source for the page 
[04:25] <giftnudel> epiphany similar
[04:28] <cjwatson> \sh: elmo says that's fixed now
[04:28] <jdong> Are there plans for us to adopt that incremental packages.gz downloading thing Etch is doing?
[04:28] <jdong> (requires changes to the archives, right?)
[04:28] <StevenK> Worse, changes to Soyuz
[04:28] <cjwatson> jdong: probably not in the near term, it's a bit more insane with hourly cron.daily
[04:28] <jdong> ah, ok :)
[04:28] <jdong> not a terribly big deal
[04:28] <cjwatson> you'd end up downloading a hell of a lot of ed diffs
[04:29] <\sh> cjwatson: cool...say thx to him :)
[04:31] <somerville32> mdke, ping
[04:31] <mdke> somerville32: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[04:32] <robertj> where do I get macros such as  AM_CONFIG_HEADER
[04:33] <mvo> jdong: something based on zsync is more likely
[04:34] <jdong> mvo: very cool; it'll probably only be beneficial to devel branch folks
[04:34] <jdong> but nonetheless cool
[04:34] <jdong> mvo: lol I like update-manager --help, if you're the one responsible for it :D
[04:34] <cjwatson> /usr/share/aclocal-1.10/header.m4:11:# AM_CONFIG_HEADER is obsolete.  It has been replaced by AC_CONFIG_HEADERS.
[04:34] <cjwatson> robertj: ^--
[04:35] <cjwatson> that file defines it as an alias
[04:35] <robertj> thx
[04:35] <ivoks> why aren't all mirrors on ubuntu.com listed?
[04:35] <cjwatson> only the ones that were up-to-date at the point the announcement was prepared are listed
[04:36] <leonel> after reading the topic  ... i think it's not off topic to  say   THANKS  FOR  FEISTY  GREAT WORK  UBUNTU DEVELOPERS !
[04:36] <somerville32> :)
[04:36] <ivoks> hm...
[04:36] <ivoks> ok
[04:36] <jdong> :) spreading good cheer is ALWAYS on topic :)
[04:36] <leonel> hehe
[04:38] <xq> aye, good job guys and gals
[04:38] <JanDM> jep very nice release indeed, THANKS GUYS
[04:39] <ivoks> cjwatson: so... i've set up on mirror to update every 4 hours, should it be every 2 hours? :)
[04:39] <ivoks> s/on/one
[04:40] <cjwatson> ivoks: around release time, that wouldn't hurt
[04:40] <ivoks> ok, thanks
[04:41] <sharms> anyone have encfs + sshfs working on feisty?
[04:42] <Nergar> where can i talk with some IRCops?
[04:42] <sharms> Nergar: ubuntu related: #ubuntu-ops
[04:42] <Nergar> ok thanx
[04:42] <JR> whats happened to this page? :/ http://www-static.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu704
[04:42] <cjwatson> how are you getting to www-static?
[04:43] <JR> http://www-static.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/704
[04:43] <JR> (from ubuntu.com) then home
[04:43] <JR> then clicking the "Feisty Out tomorrow" gets me to that page
[04:43] <sharms> yeah all the links are relative off www-static
[04:44] <cjwatson> JR: change it to www in the meantime
[04:44] <cjwatson> admins are looking at it
[04:44] <JR> ah ok :)
[04:46] <pochu> s/open/opened/
[04:51] <Lathiat> maswan: i see youve upgraded your link :)
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: a note re: the /topic, #ubuntu+1 is currently closed; we can re-open when appropriate.
[04:52] <gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: i dont think the repos are open yet
[04:53] <cjwatson> gutsy is indeed not open yet
[04:53] <tonyyarusso> #ubuntu+1 should come back once they are
[04:53] <gnomefreak> right
[04:53] <gnomefreak> give or take
[04:54] <cjwatson> it hasn't even been created in launchpad yet, and after that we'll need publisher runs and stuff
[04:54] <hunger> is www.ubuntu.com supposed to be a page about ubuntu 7.04 only?
[04:55] <tepsipakki> hunger: until the DDOS ends ;)
[04:55] <maswan> Lathiat: we borrowed a couple of computers and 2Gbit/s more for this release. :)
[04:55] <ogra> hunger, yes, for the moment
[04:57] <Lathiat> maswan: i can see that ;)
[04:57] <Lathiat> maswan: i cant help but feel its still not enough.. heh
[04:57] <Lathiat> i wonder what the canonical DC pushes
[04:59] <zyga> is gutsy going to be open with two week delay like last time; is this planned and described somewhere?
[05:04] <sharms> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
[05:06] <zyga> thanks
[05:07] <psusi> outch..... ubuntu.com is slashdotted?
[05:08] <cjwatson> psusi: unsurprising ;-)
[05:09] <zyga> hmm, no powerpc images?
[05:09] <zyga> is ppc dead officially?
[05:09] <kylem> no. it's a port.
[05:10] <psusi> hrm... the main download link on the web site still doesn't list feisty
[05:11] <cjwatson> zyga: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/release/
[05:12] <zyga> cjwatson: got it
[05:13] <psusi> why are the cd images not there?
[05:13] <zyga> do I guess right that there are no dvd releases for ports?
[05:15] <keescook> it's always nice waking up to a release.  :)
[05:15] <zyga> :-)
[05:19] <sm> Thanks ubuntu devs! Congratulations!
[05:20] <torshido> is there any rsnc mirror I could use to update a daily image to the release iso?
[05:20] <torshido> rsync
[05:23] <Mithrandir> torshido: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors has a list of rsync mirrors.
[05:26] <bddebian> Heya
[05:28] <torshido> Mithrandir: thanks!
[05:31] <delire> doesn't seem to be any reports of breakage from those that used EasyUbuntu or Automatix in 6.10. that's a relief.
[05:31] <sm> UbuntuHashes needs updating, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/84273
[05:31] <delire> (during upgrade to 7.04 i mean)
[05:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 84273 in ubuntu-website "hash for feisty on the md5sum page" [Wishlist,Rejected]  
[05:32] <wasabi_> So... this is odd. On feisty... but subversion's apache module is uninstallable.
[05:33] <wasabi_> oh, nope, not anymore. Weird.
[05:47] <baha-d> any devolper can help me i want to ask a question about keyboard settins in 7.04 installation
[05:47] <Burgwork> baha-d: help is #ubuntu
[05:47] <baha-d> no this isn't a problem 
[05:48] <baha-d> just a mistake done by developers
[05:48] <cjwatson> baha-d: please file a bug; if it's keyboard configuration during the installer, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+filebug is appropriate
[05:50] <tonyyarusso> I saw on the Planet a while back a suggestion for a 6.06.2 - anyone heard of anything along those lines?
[05:50] <baha-d> in keyboard setting in installation there is a choise under Turkey ; choises likte this turkis turkish q kurdish kurdish q etc.. there is no formal language like kurdish and no keybord scheme like kurdish in turkey
[05:55] <cjwatson> Kurdish>> whee, geopolitics
[05:55] <poningru> hehe
[05:55] <holycow> guys i'm running ubuntu on core duo cpus and feisty is freezing all machines for 15 seconds intermittently.  because the entire system locks top really isn't usefull but i can tell that what its doing is making random apps that i'm using and throwing them into uninterruptible state while the cpu spikes to 100%
[05:56] <poningru> cjwatson: you should see some of the comments that come in through hendrix
[05:56] <holycow> any info on how i can track down what is causing this issue?
[05:56] <poningru> holycow: this isnt a support channel
[05:56] <poningru> #ubuntu please
[05:56] <holycow> no its a dev channel
[05:57] <holycow> what would a noob channel know about this type of isue?
[05:58] <holycow> ah okay good enoughh
[05:58] <Hobbsee> holycow: #ubuntu+1 shoudl be able to answer it
[05:58] <Hobbsee> holycow: but check yoru syslog
[05:58] <cjwatson> poningru: through what?
[05:58] <holycow> bah frozen again
[05:58] <holycow> syslog okay
[05:58] <holycow> Hobbsee, okay
[05:58] <poningru> err right
[05:58] <poningru> cjwatson: mofo's user input thingy
[05:59] <poningru> http://hendrix.mozilla.org/
[06:01] <sladen> so guys, did we release yet?
[06:02] <sn-> !feisty
[06:02] <ubotu> FEISTY IS OUT! Party in #ubuntu-release-party - Torrent downloads at http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/7.04/ - Metalinks (use with Aria2 or, under Windows, GetRight) at http://download.packages.ro/metalink/ubuntu/
[06:02] <sn-> :-)
[06:06] <cjwatson> oh, and with respect to Kurdish, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6159
[06:06] <ubotu> Freedesktop bug 6159 in General "Keyboard configuration for Kurdish (Latin)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  
[06:07] <cjwatson> so having it included under symbols/tr was explicitly requested by an Ubuntu user
[06:07] <cjwatson> the phrase "please keep your war out of my bug tracking system" comes to mind
[06:07] <\sh> Mithrandir: congrats :) 
[06:08] <\sh> Ubuntu / Canonical: Nice work...thx for it :)
[06:10] <Mithrandir> \sh: cheers.
[06:13] <mc44> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades is forwarding to http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading but that page hasn't got some extra instructions for the server upgrade mvo added
[06:19] <\sh> Ok Guys, time to leave the office and get some drinks...456 servers updated for ldap integration, deployed a complete new infrastructure for our DC (around 100 new servers), and announced the release of feisty to all employees of this company. Thx for all your work and time ... have a nice evening and go and get some drinks
[06:22] <mc44> anyone know who I should ping about that?
[06:23] <Ng> mc44: newz2000 in the first instance, if he's not about then #canonical-sysadmin
[06:23] <mc44> Ng: thanks
[06:24] <kwah> hi, everyone
[06:24] <danielk> later
[06:25] <kwah> if i understand correctly network-manager-pptp is not available on the feisty install CDs/DVDs. Why?
[06:26] <Ng> kwah: probably because it's in universe, not main
[06:27] <kwah> bad :(
[06:27] <Mithrandir> it might make it for gutsy.
[06:28] <kwah> with package is crucial for many people, especially in places where dial-up is the main way of connecting to Internet
[06:28] <kwah> s/with/this/
[06:28] <Mithrandir> they can still use the old way of configuring the network.
[06:29] <Mithrandir> so while it would have been nice to have it working, it's not a regression of any sort.
[06:29] <kwah> Mithrandir, sure, but n-m-pptp is kinda user-friendly :)
[06:30] <Mithrandir> kwah: yes, so I think trying to get it integrated in the next release makes sense.  While we would have loved to, we don't have unlimited time or resources.
[06:31] <kwah> I know. Thanks for your effort!
[06:31] <kwah> We'll try to come up with something :)
[06:36] <micahcowan> I'm getting into the habit of running my "dpkg -l foo"s through "| cat", so that it doesn't detect stdout as a tty, and fields (especially the "Version" field) are never truncated. Is there a better way to accomplish this?
[06:37] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok, gutsy seeds are open and mirrored
[06:37] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I've updated update-germinate but it won't work until the archive opens
[06:37] <poningru> I have no idea who packaged beryl
[06:37] <poningru> and no one will tell me
[06:37] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: will be back later this evening if you need anything else from me
[06:37] <poningru> and the wiki is messed up
[06:37] <poningru> gaaah
[06:38] <poningru> !!
[06:39] <geser> poningru: check the Uploaded-by field for the beryl packages
[06:39] <sharms> http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/x11/beryl
[06:40] <geser> you should find there 2 or 3 persons which did the actuall packageing
[06:40] <micahcowan> racarr uploaded it; but it was packaged by Nicholas Thomas
[06:40] <poningru> I tried the maintained by field but couldnt find anything
[06:40] <poningru> micahcowan: do you know his nick?
[06:40] <poningru> of nicholas thomas I mean
[06:41] <geser> racarr and lupine did the packages, imbrandon did upload them
[06:41] <Amaranth> poningru: lupine_85
[06:41] <poningru> thank you
[06:42] <micahcowan> Oh, that's right: "Uploaded By" doesn't really say who uploaded it ('coz I have a package with me as "Uploaded By", and I obviously don't have the privs).
[06:42] <micahcowan> Is "Uploaded By" really just the last (top) person listed in the debian/changelog then?
[06:43] <geser> if Changed-by (= last person in the changelog) is the same as Uploaded-by in LP then yes
[06:44] <holycow> poningru, thank you for the tips
[06:50] <micahcowan> I take it nobody has a better alternative for ensuring that the Version field is preserved in the dpkg-query -l output?
[06:52] <geser> micahcowan: COLUMNS=256 dpkg -l
[06:52] <micahcowan> geser, actually, that's worse, as it /forces/ the columns to 256, even if the content is much shorter. And, it's more typing than piping through cat.
[06:53] <micahcowan> Maybe I'll talk to the dpkg folks about the possibility of preserving Name and Version at any cost, stealing from Description as needed...
[06:54] <micahcowan> I don't think it should be necessary to lie to dpkg about whether it's on a terminal or how many columns we have, just to see the crucial installation info.
[06:55] <micahcowan> Or maybe I'll just shut up, and use -f to specify a format that doesn't include a description ^_^
[08:33] <sharms> is it for sure that we will be using new gcc in gutsy?
[08:39] <tepsipakki> sharms: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyPlusOneToolchainRoadmap
[08:41] <tepsipakki> sharms: also, check the post from doko to u-d on 2007-04-02
[08:55] <sharms> tepsipakki: if I understand things correctly, that will drop performance by 40%?
[08:56] <tepsipakki> sharms: don't know, I only pointed you to the right direction ;)
[08:57] <gnomefreak> gcc drop performance?
[08:57] <gnomefreak> sharms: what ar eyou reading?
[08:57] <sharms> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-02/msg00390.html
[08:57] <gnomefreak> ty
[08:58] <sharms> The performance drop on the two benchmarks seems to be well understood, GCC
[08:58] <sharms> developers tend to trade the performance regression for more correct code in
[08:58] <sharms> 4.2.
[08:58] <sharms> from: http://www.whatimiss.net/ubuntu-devel/?m=20070402   -- under experimental feisty+1 toolchain packages
[08:59] <sabdfl> very well done everybody
[08:59] <nekohayo> whoa
[08:59] <gnomefreak> i see
[08:59] <sharms> that is a big concern for me atleast
[08:59] <Treenaks> sabdfl: cheers :)
[08:59] <gnomefreak> 40% is a bit high
[08:59] <sharms> I can imagine that 500000 bug reports
[08:59] <nekohayo> feisty's livecd boots in 7 minutes (edgy used to boot in 2 mins 30)... was there something changed to DMA or the likes?
[09:00] <gnomefreak> upstart was finished in feisty i believe
[09:00] <nekohayo> hmm
[09:00] <tepsipakki> sharms: AFAIK the version has not been decided yet
[09:00] <gnomefreak> finished being implemented
[09:01] <sharms> sabdfl: I am still working on the art for feisty+13 (sexy sab) release
[09:01] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:07] <nekohayo> okay I just timed the boots on the same machine
[09:07] <nekohayo> feisty is 7 minutes and dapper takes 2 minutes 46 on the liveCD
[09:07] <psusi> wow nekohayo
[09:07] <nekohayo> anyone know of a big structural change lately?
[09:08] <nekohayo> made my unscientific benchmarks on a 512mb of ram computer and a 4gb of ram computer
[09:08] <grayman> hrm
[09:10] <zul> nekohayo: I believe that is known
[09:10] <nekohayo> zul: do you have some pointers/link I could look at?
[09:11] <zul> nekohayo: check the #ubuntu-kernel logs for the past couple of days
[10:02] <Paul_UK> hey guys, did anyone really test vpn pptp connectivity?  it looks like it doesnt work at all
[10:03] <cjwatson> installing network-manager-pptp from universe may help
[10:03] <Paul_UK> did that
[10:03] <Paul_UK> and configured it and connected to the server
[10:03] <Paul_UK> route shows nothing tho
[10:03] <cjwatson> ok, I have no idea then I'm afraid; it's true that pptp has not received much testing
[10:04] <Paul_UK> i even had to do : sudo /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager restart  to get it to show in the network manager
[10:04] <Paul_UK> its a real shame, as alot of previews have said that vpn connectivity is much easier....  and its totally broke!
[10:05] <Paul_UK> its not a big deal at the end of the day, as i can do vpn through a virtual machine, but its nice to have it native to linux
[10:07] <davmor2> Just wanted to say Many thanks for a great ubuntu version and various bits of help I've been given a long the way.  Nice one Devs
[10:08] <Paul_UK> looking forward to the next release tho ;)  or when vpn works and desktop effects as well, cos i get a white screen, running ati mobility chipset, but will try to resolve it on my own tho :)
[10:08] <Mithrandir> davmor2: cheers. :-)
[10:08] <Paul_UK> oh yeah and RDP is so much faster as well, well done guys
[10:46] <ajmitch> morning
[11:15] <Monk-e> Can somebody please take a look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devmapper/+bug/107813
[11:15] <ubotu> Malone bug 107813 in devmapper "Incompatible libdevmapper 1.02.08 (2006-07-17)(compat) and kernel driver" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:16] <sharms> I looked, and lack the skills to figure it out, but that looks bad
[11:16] <Monk-e> Yes.
[11:18] <Monk-e> sharms: you think it might get fixed and they'll put new release images online?
[11:19] <sharms> Monk-e: I wouldn't expect a new install release to come out, someone has to confirm it and get it looked at by someone in core
[11:20] <Monk-e> Bah...
[11:31] <sharms> Monk-e: does this look related: https://launchpad.net/bugs/107815
[11:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 107815 in debian-installer "installing using LVM does not work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:33] <Monk-e> Yes, that's NO DOUBT the same bug. vgchange -ay hangs too here
[11:33] <ivoks> it's a known issue
[11:33] <ivoks> read release notes
[11:33] <delire> youch
[11:34] <sharms> ivoks: but the incompatible library is not right?
[11:34] <ivoks> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/704
[11:34] <ivoks> On the alternate or server CDs, creating LVM logical vol...
[11:35] <Monk-e> .. ivoks thanks.
[11:35] <ivoks> (i think it is the same)
[11:37] <Monk-e> ivoks: only one way to find out. ;) I'll try installing again.
[11:37] <ivoks> :)
[12:09] <jdong> bug 107648
[12:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 107648 in Ubuntu "The Ubuntu community is insane" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107648
[12:09] <jdong> glad to umm... see people having fun with Malone?
[12:11] <tonyyarusso> lol
[12:12] <jdong> what's next? Schroedinger's bug report where people keep on flicking it between confirmed and unconfirmed?
[12:12] <jdong> (oh wait Xgl already does that)