Laser_awayI wonder if this is right:12:21
FujitsuLaser_away: Wow, hadn't seen that before.12:24
FujitsuI doubt it.12:24
ajmitchwhat's so unusual?12:24
shawarmaHe's running Feisty.12:25
ajmitchisn't everyone?12:25
shawarmaNot much, I guess. I just suppose that's the reason it was interesting?12:25
ajmitchwhat worried me was automatix12:26
shawarmaOh, dear. I didn't notice.12:26
shawarmaThe window was just small enough not to show it.12:27
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jmgdoes he really play games?12:33
jmgand run mce on his notebook?12:33
jmgnote he doesnt run vista at all :)12:33
ScottKLutin: About Bug #107584, the -0ubuntu4 update isn't published for i386.12:41
ubotuMalone bug 107584 in cinepaint "[apport]  whirlpinch.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10758412:41
LutinScottK: oh, really ?12:42
ScottKLook at the published as versions12:42
Lutinoh, you're right. why is that N12:43
ScottKThe gimp-python dependeny is listed for the one arch that got ubuntu4, so it is "Fixed".12:43
ScottKIt looks like not everything made it out to be published before the freeze.  Dunno what to do about that...12:44
LutinI guess there's nothing to do but wait and poke mithrandir ^^12:44
ScottKHave at it.12:45
ajmitchI think you'll get the response of "we're *really* frozen"12:45
ajmitchsome stuff was accepted & then backed out12:46
ScottKajmitch: OK, so pick a version that was the last one published.  I don't think we can have it ubuntu3 for some and ubuntu4 for others, can we?12:47
ScottKNot urgent, but maybe stuff unthaws a little next week?12:47
=== ajmitch shrugs
Lutinajmitch: that'd be weird, -4 got accepted for amd6412:47
ajmitchLutin: amd64 buildd is fast :)12:47
Lutinall the others arch have been built the same day12:48
ajmitchso maybe the publisher was turned off while stuff was still building12:48
Lutinajmitch: do you know when the publisher's been turned off ? the packages have been built 2 days ago12:50
FujitsuPublisher has likely been on manual for a number of days.12:52
FujitsuIt was for RC preparation, and that never really finished.12:52
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=== Laser_away is the laser induced fluorescence king!
=== Fujitsu fluroesces.
FujitsuI rarely have cause to spell that :P12:54
LutinFujitsu: ok :/12:55
FujitsuI'd think you would be able to convince somebody to get it through at some point.12:55
LutinFujitsu: some point would be ? some time after feisty gets released ?12:58
FujitsuNot sure. You'll have to ask Mithrandir.12:59
Lutinwell, thanks for your help. good night guys :)12:59
FujitsuNight Lutin.01:00
ajmitchhey Laser_away :)01:01
ajmitchLaser_away: we needs more 'behind motu' 01:01
pochuajmitch wants to be famous too? :p01:01
ajmitchpochu: nah I01:01
ajmitchI'm not an active MOTU01:02
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=== ajmitch just lurks on irc
Laser_awaywell, I'm trying to be low noise01:04
pochuwe want a LOT OF NOISE! :)01:04
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ajmitchas if you could be01:04
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jmghave we got any bugs submitted by mr dell?01:48
Laser_awayjmg: what? Feisty has no bugs ;-)01:58
jmgLaser_away: can i quote you on that in 2 months time? :P01:59
ajmitchlunch time...01:59
jmgi concur with ajmitch01:59
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wonderingHow big is the default Ubuntu command line only installation (*not* the command line installation housing CD - the alternate CD, but the installation itself - how much space does it take up?)02:44
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Burgworkwondering: the server install, which is the barebones, is about 200mb, if I remember correctly02:44
bddebianHeya gang02:44
wonderingBurgwork: Would you happen to know how to install that from a non-Ubuntu or even a non-Debian based distribution?02:44
Burgworknetinst isn't hard, however02:44
wonderingBurgwork: I've got a LiveCD I'm working on that won't have any networking support and will install a minimal Ubuntu installation.02:44
wonderingBurgwork: It isn't hard, but on a lab of 20+ machines, it lags.02:44
Burgworkwhy not use LTSP?02:44
shawarmaI remember seeing a "debian takeover" script once. It moved the current OS out of the way and installed a Debian system instead.02:45
shawarmaAllegedly it even worked on exotic systems like HP-UX..02:45
wonderingWell, I'm not even sure how to go about doing it. I have a Gentoo based CD working already.02:45
wonderingI just need to get it to install Ubuntu packages.02:46
shawarmaIsn't dpkg in portage?02:47
wonderingshawarma: What would I need to do to get it to work beyond that?02:48
shawarmawondering: Depends on what you exactly want to do. If you just want to install Ubuntu packages, you don't really need much else. If you want it to interact with Gentoo's dependency handling magic, I have no idea.02:49
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wonderingshawarma: No, I mean if the Ubuntu developers already dealt with all the interdependency junk (which I know you all spend a *long* time doing thankfully :D), it should just work with dpkg right?02:50
shawarmawondering: Off the top of my head, yes. 02:51
shawarmawondering: It *is* 3 AM here, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.02:51
wonderingshawarma: Although, if I have it on the LiveCD, how do I tell dpkg to install to say /mnt/ubuntu/ or something?02:52
plugwashto build a new system you really need debootstrap02:52
plugwashyou might want to check if gentoo has that availible too02:53
wonderingplugwash: It does.02:53
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wonderingplugwash: I'll look more into debootstrap before I bother anyone any further.02:53
wonderingThanks a bunch everyone.02:53
plugwashyou might have to modify its data files slightly to make it install ubunut instead of debian02:53
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plugwashonce you have debootstrapped you can then mount proc under the installation and then use chroot to run apt-get/aptitude inside the new installation02:54
wonderingplugwash: Okay, I'll look into it further.02:55
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plugwashwhy are you making a gentoo livecd that installs ubuntu anyway02:56
plugwashthat seems a bit of a strange thing to do02:56
=== ajmitch returns
wonderingplugwash: I like Gentoo, but I'm install Ubuntu (which I also like). I've also never made my own LiveCD before, so Gentoo makes it really easy (paradox?) to get a simple (haha, yeah right?) CD setup.02:57
wonderingI'm installing*02:58
RAOFIsn't there the Reconstructor project, which is pretty much about making your own customised Ubuntu livecds?02:58
wonderingAlso, I already made the LiveCD base so far, so I'd hate myself if I didn't use this piece of crap now :\02:58
wonderingYeah, I guess I'll look more into Reconstructor however much though I don't like it.03:03
graymanatleast you can be extensivly proud at yourself when your "piece of crap" will work03:07
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wonderingHmm, I run sudo python /usr/share/reconstructor/reconstructor.py and it outputs this: ImportError: No module named Reconstructor.PackageHelper03:24
wonderingHow would I fix that? I can hack the code, but then that means that's a bug.03:24
shawarmaLikely there's something in /usr/bin that you're supposed to call instead that will take care of setting a proper python path.03:25
wonderingshawarma: Well, /usr/bin/env python is the real way to do it but the documentation says otherwise03:26
wonderingshawarma: Either way, it still comes up with that same error.03:26
wonderingIf I run sudo /usr/share/reconstructor/reconstructor.py it still fails03:26
micahcowanCould somebody give me an example of a programming-language package that needs to bootstrap itself (that is, is written in... itself)? Like gcc, except I need something that's not in build-essential.03:26
jmgim thinking erlang03:27
jmgbut it aint03:27
micahcowanIs one of the haskell implementations written in haskell, perhaps?03:28
RAOFPossibly mono-gmcs?  I'm pretty sure that's written in C#03:28
wonderingIs that even possible?03:28
jmgwondering: most low level compilers bootstrap themselves03:29
jmgmicahcowan: pypy? :)03:29
micahcowanjmg, omg, right: is that a package?03:29
micahcowan!info pypy03:29
ubotuPackage pypy does not exist in edgy, edgy-backports, edgy-seveas03:29
RAOFpypy isn't actually released, is it?03:30
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micahcowanHm, good point.03:30
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jmgits wnpp03:30
micahcowanwondering, it basically just means you have to install the software by hand first in order to produce the binaries... but obviously this is the case for gcc.03:30
ubotuDebian bug 326892 in wnpp "ITP: pypy -- python interpreter implemented in python" [Wishlist,Closed]  03:31
wonderingmicahcowan: Ah, I thought you all meant *real* bootstrapping.03:31
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wonderingI was thinking... binary at that point.03:31
jmgWe are proud to release PyPy 1.0.0, our sixth public release (Download).03:31
micahcowanwondering, how is that not real bootstrapping?03:31
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RAOFOooh.  Awesome.03:31
ajmitchmicahcowan: you're probably thinking of ghc03:32
wonderingHmm, the deb just sucks then. The .tar.gz works fine.03:32
micahcowanajmitch, RAOF, thanks, I'll check that out.03:32
micahcowanThat's a haskell implementation, yes?03:33
jmgglasgow haskell compiler03:33
micahcowanHi Laser03:33
LaserJockevening ajmitch 03:33
LaserJockhi micahcowan 03:33
micahcowanI'm one step closer to MOTU now :)03:34
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=== micahcowan caresses his shiny new freenode cloak
ajmitchhey LaserJock 03:34
jmgmicahcowan: get a room03:34
micahcowanHey, I specifically avoided the term "fondle"... :)03:34
Jucatohi LaserJock :)03:34
ScottKmicahcowan: Did you have to do anything to get the cloak set up?03:35
wonderingScottK: Oooh, I was peering at your /whois ... Verizon FIOS? Do you mind me asking where you live (as in city, state) ?03:36
ScottKEllicott City, MD03:36
micahcowanScottK, yes. (1) follow the instructions on the freenode FAQ for preparing for a cloak (you may have already done that: it's stuff like registering with nickserv, and associating an email); and (2)... bug Sev about it :)03:36
wonderingAh, that's cool.03:36
=== wondering is going to move to MD at the soonest chance :)
ScottKmicahcowan: Thanks.03:37
micahcowanScottK, how close to Baltimore is that? (My brother lives in Baltimore County).03:37
ScottKwondering: Where in MD?03:37
ScottKIt's a suburb.03:37
micahcowanCool. :)03:37
ScottKThe closest Wal Mart is in Baltimore County.03:38
LaserJockhi Jucato, did you see my comment on your blog?03:38
jmgScottK: awesome03:38
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JucatoLaserJock: yes. thank you :)03:38
wonderinghttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-kde/+bug/64695 -> Why is this a KDE bug again?03:41
ubotuMalone bug 64695 in kdebase "KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Undecided,Confirmed]  03:41
wonderingIt *was* a GDM bug last I checked.03:41
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Jucatoit's a normal behavior if you used GDM to start KDE afaik03:41
Jucato(and I think the reveresed behavior is true when using KDM to start GNOME)03:42
ajmitchobviously the gdm maintainer thinks otherwise :)03:42
wonderingJucato: No, it worked in Edgy.03:42
Jucatoah hm.... so it's just GDM?03:43
wonderingIt worked in Edgy. It doesn't in Feisty. Apparently it *won't* work in Feisty by release day (tomorrow) because it would involve a lot of work (Launchpad is probably pressing CDs as we speak)03:44
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=== plugwash wonders if feisty CDs will be free or not
wonderingplugwash: Well, shipit.ubuntu.com, etc. say they are giving out free CDs.03:48
wonderingplugwash: I ordered my Feisty CDs about 2 weeks ago (even though they will *start* shipping tomorrow).03:48
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=== LaserJock checks out debian-tex svn
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LaserJockgeeze, still checking out04:25
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LaserJockwhat am I getting myself into 04:27
ajmitchlots & lots of pain04:27
ScottKBut he clearly likes that.04:27
LaserJockwell, not that Feisty is done04:28
LaserJockGutsy's going to take some work for TeX04:29
LaserJockwe should replace tetex with texlive 200704:29
ScottKSo the real question is are you going to leave hobbsee out of the Golden Pony awards again?04:29
ScottKThat'll tell us how much you like pain.04:29
ajmitchof course he won't04:29
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ajmitchgolden ponies will be interesting this time...04:29
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=== ajmitch nominates some up & coming stars like ScottK
ajmitchso when can I install gutsy?04:32
=== ScottK hides. To much publicity lately.
jmgOMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!04:32
ajmitchjmg: yeah calm down04:32
jmgajmitch: but but but04:32
ajmitchthose poor people on the forums who thought that feisty would be released *exactly* at midnight GMT04:33
ajmitchpartly due to the fridge, of course04:33
ajmitch"cricky! I've been waiting 11 minutes, I can't take it anymore, no, refresh did nothing, still not there, thats 12 minutes now?"04:34
LaserJockwell, I should jump on the forums and say I'm running it right now ;-)04:35
=== ajmitch just rsynced the latest isos again for testing
ajmitch"Im sad :( Why cant the ubuntu team just be on time :("04:36
=== ajmitch should stop this forums pain
jmgajmitch: euthanise that member immediately04:36
ajmitchmost of them are probably already running feisty & have nothing to upgrade to anyway04:37
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jmgexecutive authorisation ohMai8ah04:37
ajmitchdon't worry, people waiting for feisty are already asking how to upgrade to gutsy04:39
jmgaww they didnt use my name for feisty +104:40
ajmitchof course not04:40
LaserJockstill checking out04:41
ajmitchstill rsyncing i386...04:41
=== bluefoxicy wonders why i486 compiled software is labeled i386 ... cmpxchg doesn't work on i386
bluefoxicyalthough I'm bored and hoping someone opens their mouth demanding Ubuntu-i686 again some time so I can debate with them04:43
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plugwashbluefoxicy because thats how the 32 bit intel architecture has always been know 04:48
plugwashjust as the 64 bit architecture is known as amd64 despite the fact intel probablly sells more chips that run it than amd nowadays04:49
ajmitch"Is there anyone we can just call and ask when it will be out? Maybe someone has Mark Shuttleworth's home number?"04:50
jdongajmitch: don't tell me that came from the forums :)04:50
LaserJockit did04:50
ajmitchjdong: damn right it did04:50
ScottKGood night everyone.04:51
LaserJockit's like they think Mark's sitting there with the .isos just teasing people04:51
jmgthe unwashed masses04:52
LaserJockwaiting for some magic hour04:52
ajmitchLaserJock: that's not far from the truth04:52
ajmitchexcept that the teasing is generally what we call 'testing'04:56
ajmitchand making sure that there are no last minute regressions04:56
ajmitchnight ScottK 04:56
LaserJockajmitch: my goodness, my checkout is up to 1.4GB04:56
ajmitchthat's small04:56
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LaserJockwell darn, I was hoping they used CDBS ;-)05:04
joejaxxLaserJock: :P05:05
LaserJockno wonder nobody wants to touch this stuff05:06
joejaxxLaserJock: you are welcome btw (ref: planet)05:06
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LaserJockjoejaxx: :-)05:06
joejaxxsoon it will be time to start the GG  stats when the repos opens05:07
=== ajmitch will see if he can get into double figures this time
LaserJockshould be easy :-)05:08
bddebianGG stats?05:08
ajmitchyeah, it may take me a few months05:08
joejaxxbddebian: yeah05:08
joejaxxbddebian: the current ones are for feisty05:09
bddebianWTF is a GG stat?05:09
joejaxxgusty gibbon05:09
=== ajmitch wonders why some people overuse "WTF"
joejaxxwhat about FTW ?05:09
=== bddebian wonders WTF ajmitch is talking about
jmggloomy goldfish05:10
joejaxxLaserJock: i should probably keep the stats for past releases too05:10
joejaxxLaserJock: i could generate them for pre feisty as well05:10
LaserJockcan you keep an archive of the full results?05:10
LaserJocknot just top 1005:10
LaserJockwe'd actually like keep track of active MOTUs05:11
joejaxxoh ok i can do that05:11
LaserJockthat's one indication05:11
LaserJockthe packages one is interesting too05:11
joejaxxthat is what i found most interesting05:11
ajmitchLaserJock: I'd fall so far off the bottom it'd hurt05:12
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LaserJockajmitch: me too :(05:13
LaserJockbut we still need the info05:13
=== ajmitch has still been hacking on some stuff lately, just not lots of package uploads
bddebianstats on what??05:14
LaserJockyep, that's why I said it was one indication05:14
LaserJockbddebian: # of uploads05:14
joejaxxbddebian: ubuntu.joejaxx.org05:14
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ajmitchLaserJock: once gutsy opens I should be able to get some new stuff in05:15
joejaxxif there are anything else that you all want stats generated for just tell :)05:15
bddebianHey no fair counting the main guys ;-P05:15
ajmitchbddebian: who counts as a 'main guy'?05:16
jmgsomeone who works on main?05:16
ajmitchwe have people who work on both05:16
LaserJockI think what bddebian meant was people who are paid to upload05:16
bddebianIT WAS A JOKE for cripes sake05:17
LaserJockwhat? </sarcasm>05:17
ajmitchLaserJock: aren't you paid?05:17
crimsunwhat about people who are paid not to upload? O:-)05:19
joejaxxcrimsun: grep -v ? :P05:19
ajmitchcrimsun: I could do that job!05:21
LaserJockajmitch: I got paid once05:22
LaserJockand not even enough to pay for my passport to Paris05:23
crimsunlj: aren't you off to Sevilla for UDS?05:24
LaserJockyeah, UES and part of UDS05:24
LaserJockthen I get less than 24hrs before flying to my parents to be a groomsman in my little brothers wedding05:25
ajmitchLaserJock, international jetsetter05:26
ajmitchpoor fellow complaining about getting a free trip to spain05:26
LaserJockwell, I'm pretty sure it's the last05:26
ajmitchyou've said that before  :)05:26
ajmitchand have you managed to escape the clutches of ubuntu yet?05:27
LaserJocksure ...05:27
ajmitchthat sounded convicning05:27
crimsunwhat's the commitment length for Edubuntu Council members? ;)05:28
LaserJock1hr I think05:28
LaserJockwell, technically 2 releases05:28
joejaxxLaserJock: the jetlag will be quite inconvenient :\05:28
LaserJockI imagine05:29
LaserJockwhen I got home from paris I was sick for 2 weeks05:29
joejaxxman that stinks :\05:29
crimsunwell, regardless, you guys & gals have fun in Sevilla05:30
crimsunthanks for all the great work in Ubuntu {main,restricted,universe,multiverse} thus far!05:30
ajmitchcrimsun: you ought to be there05:31
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LaserJockcrimsun: well, thanks for being here05:41
LaserJockreally, I don't think MOTU would be anything like it is without your efforts05:41
jmgcrimsun will be there... in absentia05:42
ajmitchno, we'd be in far worse shape05:42
ajmitchjmg: it's only a small trip from NZ..05:42
jmgajmitch: a small acid trip05:43
ajmitchjetlag usually isn't that bad05:43
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joejaxxwhat is that big?05:57
LaserJockdebian-tex svn05:57
LaserJockI'm trying to do a checkout05:57
ajmitchLaserJock: you'll be busy05:57
ajmitcharen't you glad that svn doesn't have the whole history in a checkout?05:57
LaserJockI was wondering how that would work if I did a bzr branch :-)05:58
ajmitchpainful slow05:58
ajmitchit's bad enough doing bzr branch of f-spot svn05:58
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LaserJockI wonder if an archive mirror or debian-tex is bigger? :-)06:11
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minghuaLaserJock: does that mean debian-svn have the upstream tarballs?06:23
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LaserJockminghua: not tarballs06:28
LaserJockI think it's just the source06:28
minghuaoh, that's worse than tarballs (disk-space-wise)06:30
nixternalLaserJock#@!!!#@ what's up buddy06:33
LaserJockminghua: yeah06:37
LaserJockhi nixternal 06:37
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LaserJockhehe, I  posted on the 44 page "Is it there yet?" thread06:40
nixternallink me06:40
LaserJockI did it 5 minutes ago and there's already another page06:41
nixternalthere are 2 more pages06:43
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nixternalI should do a "We are holding back from releasing it in the next few hours due to legal threats from Microsoft. Our lawyers on it at this time, please bare with us as we work through this."06:43
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nixternalLaserJock: dude you are getting flamed every other second now on the forums06:44
bddebianUh oh what'd you do now? :-)06:44
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nixternalslashdot doesn't have a thing on our forums06:45
nixternalmy god they can respond06:45
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LaserJocknixternal: flamed?? that isn't anything06:51
nixternaldon't worry, I have been receiving hate mail from one of the Tux500 guys, so don't feel bad06:51
LaserJockman, they've got automatic refresh programs going on06:51
jmgnixternal: tux500?06:51
nixternalya, them fools that think that having Linux plastered on an Indy car is the best marketing ever06:51
nixternalthey want $350,000 USD within the next month06:51
jmgdoes the car run linux?06:51
goukinixternal, really? Why on earth would they do that!?06:51
Jucatowtf? 45 pages in under 2 hours... for that topic?!?!06:51
goukiThe hate mail, I mean.06:51
nixternalgouki: retardation?06:51
nixternalgouki: see above response as well :)06:51
goukiSounds about right :)06:51
nixternalretardation works in both cases 1) why they would do the indy thing and 2) the hate mail06:51
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nixternalJucato: you know you want to post06:51
Jucatohell no. thank goodness I'm too sane right now to add to that thread :)06:51
jmgthey have the audacity to put LINUX POWERED on the side06:52
Jucatooh 46 pages now...06:52
bddebian"Screw you guys, I'm going to Gentoo".. ;-P06:53
Jucatobddebian: ... and get yourself screwed as well? :P06:53
Jucato(no offense meant to Gentoo-ers)06:53
bddebianThat was a joke son.. :-)06:53
Jucatomine was too, "dad" :D06:54
nixternalGentoo is weak, Slackware my child06:54
bddebianLFS you sissy06:55
nixternalI went back to Debian until I realised they had KDE 3.5.5 ;)06:55
=== Jucato resists the urge to post... resists...
nixternalbddebian: we just finished an LFS build farm at our LUG06:55
nixternal50% of the guys crashed and burned06:55
nixternalmy first 2 boxes did as well, but that is what I get for messing with 64bit stuff06:55
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jmgsheer masochism06:56
bddebianWow, I guess if I got on the forums, I'd be cool too?06:56
Jucatobddebian: no. you'd be nixternal-ish :D06:56
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=== ajmitch checks the forums again for a laugh
nixternalmy god, 2 more pages after my post07:02
nixternalJucato: you think you are funny huh ;p07:02
Jucatonixternal: definitely :)07:02
nixternalhaha, good answer07:02
bddebianWell bed time for this old man, gnight folks07:03
ajmitchnixternal: the "Release in 2 hours!" thread?07:03
nixternalhaha ya07:03
=== Jucato goes for a quick nap as well
ajmitchyeah it's painful07:03
joejaxxwow that is a shame 07:04
joejaxx~45 pages07:04
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ajmitchLaserJock: you were brave to post on the forums07:06
ajmitchI at least have the cover of anonymity07:06
LaserJockwith a dev tag and everything ;-)07:06
ScottKI could neither sleep nor help myself when it came to posting. http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2479056&postcount=47507:06
ScottKGo nixternal07:06
=== Jucato should tag nixternal as dev too :)
ajmitchLaserJock: exactly, I'm just a nobody on the forums & can post what I want ;)07:07
nixternaltag your it07:07
nixternalJucato: what do you mean tag?07:07
jmgdist-upgrading is never the same as a fresh install, unfort.07:07
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=== ScottK will be toasted as an ignorant nebie no doubt because I only have 2 forum postings to my name.
joejaxxLaserJock: <quote> @laserjock - think of it as a valuable bonding time for ubuntu users everywhere. </quote>07:07
Jucatonixternal: announce to everyone on that thread that you're a dev and they will start to annoy you with questions :)07:07
ScottKYeah. Dist-upgrading usually works better.07:07
nixternalJucato: I dare you to07:08
joejaxxScottK: :P07:08
nixternaloh lord, when you respond to a forums post you get emailed for every response there after07:08
ScottKHeh, nixternal: You07:08
Jucatonixternal: you can turn it off iirc07:08
ajmitchthat's a good incentive not to post07:08
ScottKurgh can07:08
ScottKcan't type07:08
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Jucatonixternal: User CP -> Edit Options -> Message & Notification07:09
dholbachgood morning07:09
ScottKnixternal: You're a dev.  I've got Dapper installed on my desktop and I used automatix to make it really cool.  Can I upgrade straight to Feisty and where do I find the new version of automatix for Feisty???? kthxbye07:09
nixternalScottK: sure, first thing first, poor water directly to the drive where automatix was installed07:10
nixternalwhile the system is running07:10
FlannelScottK: no.  You need to upgrade through edgy.  And actually, your Edgy upgrade is likely not to work, because of automatix.  And dont use automatix in feisty, since then you'll have the same issue upgrading to gutsy07:10
ScottKFlannel: I'm kidding.  I know.07:11
FlannelOh.  Sorry.  Thought I was in #ubuntu.  w and 2 are close to each other ;)07:11
ScottKI actually do have a dapper box that I used automatix on before I knew better.  I'll reinstall that one from scratch when I get some time.07:11
ScottKnixternal: If I'm cross-grading from opensuse 10.1, should I do the same?07:12
=== jmg puts on his flame retardant suit
nixternalactually wrong, you have downgrade to breezy first, then upgrade back to dapper, you can try to upgrade to edgy at that point, but if it doesn't work, go back to warty, then add feisty to your sources and dist-upgrade, when it crashes out, insert a windows 95 cd and enjoy!07:13
ScottKCool.  I still have a couple of those.07:13
LaserJockalmost to 50 pages07:16
nixternalthey seriously think it is going to be out in 2 hours or less?07:16
LaserJockwell, that was like 5-7 hrs ago07:17
nixternaldoes it say at 07:00 UTC it will be release anywhere?07:17
nixternaland do people actually wait for the release to upgrade?07:17
nixternalsilly them07:17
jmgThe Ubuntu community would like to thank you for your contributions to the Ubuntu project. In recognition of this, we offer you an expanded set of options for your ShipIt request.07:17
joejaxxwell it says tomorrow on the website07:17
jmgthanks guys <307:17
joejaxxexpanded set?07:17
nixternalexpanded set of options? like "sorry you have been denied?"07:18
nixternalthey denied Ubuntu Chicago shipits07:18
ajmitchnixternal: no, you get a signed photo of sabdfl07:18
joejaxxwhat emcompasses an expanded set?07:18
nixternalthank god for those Fedora CDs that Tom "Spot" Callaway provided as a mean joke to me07:18
jmgi have options for 3 and 10 cd packs07:18
joejaxxjmg: ah nice :)07:18
ajmitchjmg: stunning07:18
jmgajmitch: confusing07:18
nixternalajmitch: already got one :)07:18
ajmitchI think the smallest you could request for warty was 1007:18
ScottKThe experts have spoken in response to my suggestion to dist-upgrade: "Why would that be any newer than what is already available for download? IMHO, I don't think they would release it to the repositories until its also available for download.'07:19
jmgsince after the great re-launchpadding, i have 0 karma07:19
ajmitchnixternal: sad, sad fanboy07:19
nixternalwe sent Mark and Ubuntu Chicago poster we made up last year07:19
ajmitch"zomg mark i wants to have your children!"07:20
nixternalI can't find the pic now. probably got destroyed with some development bug like the rest of my 4gb of photos I didn't back up ;)07:20
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nixternalajmitch: laugh, at school today while chatting with mark, this girl seen my ubuntu shirt and screamed "shuttleworth rocks!"07:20
nixternalMark's repsonse was classic07:20
joejaxxi thought shipit was only free for dapper lts07:20
ajmitchoh dear07:20
ajmitchjoejaxx: that was for edgy07:21
joejaxxajmitch: ah07:21
joejaxxajmitch: what changed?07:21
nixternalrelease cycle07:21
jmgnixternal: a joke with no punchline is no joke at all07:21
nixternalwell nobody sounded interested, so I am holding the punchline07:21
jmgnixternal: was the girl hot?07:21
Jucatoso what was mark's response?07:22
jmgnixternal: well, you could have taken a penalty shot07:22
nixternalI am not telling you now, I am mad07:22
=== Jucato has been waiting for a whole minute
ajmitchthey decided to ship feisty cds07:22
nixternalif you are in the bazaar channel you would see his answer07:22
ajmitch09:36 < sabdfl> art history major07:22
ajmitch09:36 < sabdfl> definitely07:22
ScottKajmitch: Thanks.07:23
Jucatook now that's over...07:23
nixternal###SPAM ALERT###07:23
nixternal16:36:27 [    sabdfl]  WHICH UNIVERSITY?07:23
nixternal16:36:37 [ nixternal]  College of Dummies (err DuPage) in Chicago07:23
nixternal16:36:43 [    sabdfl]  i'm in07:23
nixternal16:36:45 [ nixternal]  hahaha07:23
ajmitchnixternal: I lurk there too07:23
nixternal16:36:47 [    sabdfl]  art history major07:23
nixternal16:36:50 [    sabdfl]  definitely07:23
nixternaldamn you ajmitch!07:23
nixternalya, I made the school paper this week and pissed off the school board07:24
nixternalI love when I do that07:24
LaserJocknixternal is just trouble07:25
nixternalthat I am07:25
ajmitchwhat did you do this time?07:25
joejaxxLaserJock: :P07:25
LaserJockI talked to a prof today about Ubuntu07:25
LaserJockhe's got a laptop running Fedora07:25
LaserJockhe said "What do you run?"07:25
LaserJockbig mistake on his part ;-)07:25
ajmitchoh dear07:25
ajmitchhow long before he crawled away as a  broken man?07:26
LaserJock'course I didn't show him the OS X machine I was presently on ;-)07:26
joejaxxLaserJock: :P07:26
LaserJockactually I did, because I was showing him how awesome Python was at the same time ;-)07:26
LaserJockso I got in Ubuntu and Python07:26
=== joejaxx needs to learn python
LaserJockhe said he might check it out07:27
jmgLaserJock: did you quickly desktop switch to your ubuntu vm?07:27
LaserJockI have a Feisty machine on the desk next to the iMac07:27
nixternalread the section on the first page "Better classes will market college"07:27
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=== jmg wonders what the logic for expanded options on launchpad is
jmger shipit07:28
joejaxxjmg: i just looked07:28
nixternalthen tonight at the board meeting I got on them again for screwing over IT for the fall, and I told them they are not only killing a students education but also their creativity by forcing them to use proprietary software07:28
joejaxxjmg: i think maybe you cannot request all those different methods07:28
jmgjoejaxx: i cant?07:29
joejaxxjmg: no07:29
joejaxxas in if you did not have extended options07:29
joejaxxthat is what i am thinking07:29
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jmgnixternal: i dont see "better classes will market college"07:29
nixternalit isn't a PDF?07:30
joejaxxis it under editorials?07:30
jmgoh the newspaper07:30
nixternalyou know why it did that, over 127 chars in the url I think07:30
nixternalmy appologies07:31
jmgwhat page?07:31
nixternalthere is the PDF, first page07:32
jmgcant view the first page07:32
jmgonly second and subsequent07:32
nixternalthat is lovely07:32
jmgdirect link worked07:32
ScottKGood for you nixternal.  Tell them like it is.07:35
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jmgright, time to go home07:35
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nixternalI have the professors and the students behind and the board against07:35
jmgbye all07:35
nixternalthe student president started to speak while I was, and another student told her to set down and let me finish07:35
nixternalgood stuff...Chicago is so corrupt at everything07:36
nixternaleven education, it is so sad07:36
=== ScottK remembers going to Chicago for a high school newspaper convention (a long time ago). I asked what the drinking age was in Illinois (it varied a lot more back then) and was told "old enough to reach the counter".
nixternalScottK: how old are you?07:37
LaserJocknixternal: geeze, read Behind MOTU ;-)07:37
nixternalahh, you got me by 11 ;)07:37
ScottKAncient in Ubuntu terms07:37
nixternalwth is Behind MOTU?07:37
=== LaserJock slaps nixternal alongside the head
nixternalbesides LaserJock's back pocket07:38
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joejaxxnixternal: there is a new one on planet as we speak :P07:38
nixternalI don't have time to read07:38
LaserJocknixternal: behindmotu.wordpress.com07:38
nixternalI have been creating graphics and release notes all day long, and then trying to get an education07:38
LaserJocknixternal: you're so busy causing trouble on campus you don't have time for us mere mortals ;-)07:38
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joejaxxlol :P07:39
nixternalhaha, he lives in Ellicott City07:39
nixternalI used to live in Georgetown, but mostly in St. Mary's County07:39
joejaxxLaserJock: how is mutt working out for you?07:39
nixternalstationed at Patuxent River for the last 2 years of active duty07:39
ScottKnixternal: I used to live in Bowie which would be even funnier07:39
LaserJockjoejaxx: very well07:39
nixternaleww, Bowie07:39
=== ScottK was in the US Navy too
nixternalmy cousin just moved there07:40
=== joejaxx should setup commandline email client so he can use it with `screen`
nixternalI just left Maryland a couple of weeks ago07:40
LaserJockjoejaxx: yes, mutt+irssi+screen is working very well for me07:40
joejaxxLaserJock: i think i will try it i have been using webclients 07:41
nixternalI am going to move back for a little bit next year to be next to my daughter, and then it is either to Europe somewhere or Mexico on some secluded beach07:41
joejaxxLaserJock: nice i think i will set that up now :)07:41
nixternalI can't go back to Mutt. I tried so hard but it wouldn't work07:41
LaserJockwell, I've got it set up so that I can do mutt or TB or Mail.app07:41
LaserJockit works rather nicely07:41
LaserJockwahoo, up to 6.5GB07:42
LaserJockminghua: ping07:43
minghuaLaserJock: yes?07:45
=== ajmitch returns to the realm of insanity
LaserJockminghua: what do you think about a ubuntu-tex team?07:48
ajmitchsounds too much like texas07:49
minghuaLaserJock: if we can find enough people/time, then I'm all for it07:49
=== minghua is all for texas team, too :-)
ajmitchwhy isnt it out yet?!?07:51
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joejaxxlol that is funny07:55
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ajmitchlots of people demanding that next time there be an *exact* time it'll be released07:56
LaserJockthey really feel that the devs are all sitting around drinking a beer waiting for the exact hour07:58
LaserJock"not yet ..."07:58
=== ajmitch feels like doing exactly that :)
LaserJock"not yet ..."07:58
LaserJock"ok now'07:59
ajmitchyou mean they're all sitting round feverishly writing up specs08:00
tonyyarussoajmitch: Translates as "it was ready three days ago, but we waited until "the time", happy now?"08:04
nixternalFEISTY IS OUT!!08:04
=== ajmitch kicks nixternal
nixternalI want to do it in a channel so bad08:04
ajmitchI don't care, current cd images are good enough08:05
LaserJock #ubuntu :-)08:05
nixternalI have been using Feisty since July08:05
=== ajmitch feels like going & reading a book instead
nixternalerr, October08:05
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nixternalI got the dummies in ubuntu-chicago with the feisty is out08:05
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nixternalthey are scrambling for links, and 90% of the e.tards already run it08:06
tonyyarussoYou're cruel.08:06
nixternalyes, yes I am08:06
nixternald'oh, I have a feisty one challenging me now in there ;)08:06
nixternal01:06:33 [ nixternal]  says me, I am the release coordinator for Ubuntu08:07
nixternal01:06:52 [     makkk]  wow, nice08:07
nixternalhe was a pushover08:07
nixternalnice break line there irssi08:07
LaserJockmy gosh08:07
LaserJockwhat a cruel man08:07
ajmitchI didn't realise you'd  been suddenly promoted08:07
nixternalhe is looking for the links08:07
nixternalajmitch: me either08:07
nixternalis there even a such thing?08:08
ajmitchof course there is08:08
nixternalthat is the first thing that I could think of for someone who would know08:08
nixternalhaha LaserJock 08:08
ajmitchhe's the one who'll hit the release button08:08
tonyyarussowho is it for real?08:08
jussi01LaserJock, did you get a chance to look over the package i uploaded?08:09
ajmitchhence why I told you to give him ops :)08:09
tonyyarussoGood call08:09
=== tonyyarusso merely recognized the name as somewhat high-up, doesn't know specifics
ajmitchhe suggested it08:10
ajmitchI think tollef is handling the release details though08:11
LaserJockyeah, just saying it's gotta be tollef or colin08:12
joejaxxyou know what i never thought about doing?08:13
ajmitchso many fanboys...08:13
joejaxxsetting up local webemail08:13
ajmitchjoejaxx: getting sabdfl's autograph?08:13
joejaxxa webemail client that is08:13
joejaxxajmitch: hmm? lol08:13
ajmitchI know you're a fanboy08:14
LaserJockI think I'm going to get banned from #ubuntu-chicago :-)08:14
joejaxxajmitch: lol08:14
ajmitchLaserJock: stirring up trouble?08:14
ajmitchbig surprise there08:15
LaserJockI popped in there a couple times, give a line harrasing nixternal, and leave08:15
LaserJockjust to make it interesting ;-)08:15
joejaxxthat is funny08:15
nixternalhe said I am the real Mark Shuttleworth or something08:15
nixternalthey are like "nixternal is paying him"08:15
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superm1hey guys any ideas of where a list of who is hosting what sessions @ ubuntu live is?  Just saw this: http://www.ubuntulive.com/cs/ubuntu/view/e_sess/13454, and was wondering who was running this thing08:55
joejaxxgood morning09:00
joejaxx\sh: how did that rollout go?09:00
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imbrandonwtf, ok i have two boxes, both with the same sources.list ( edgt, default , with multiverse and universe )09:09
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imbrandonand one cant find wine the other cane09:09
imbrandonin universe09:09
ScottKBoth pointing at the same mirror?09:10
Flannelimbrandon: did you update the package cache?09:10
imbrandonas in apt-get update ? , yes09:10
imbrandonnevermind i just figured it out09:10
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highvoltageI'm stuck with a problem with dpkg-divert, hope someone in mOTU can help me out...09:12
\shjoejaxx: my servers? finished and already in production :)09:12
joejaxx\sh: nice :)09:12
highvoltageI get the following message when trying to remove a divert:09:12
highvoltageI get the following message when trying to remove a divert:Removing `diversion of /etc/dot.bashrc to /etc/dot.bashrc.orig by base-files-update'09:12
highvoltagedpkg-divert: rename involves overwriting `/etc/dot.bashrc' with different file `/etc/dot.bashrc.orig', not allowed09:12
BugMaNhi \sh! ;-)09:12
highvoltagethe above happens in the postrm of the package09:13
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ScottKimbrandon: What was it?09:19
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jack_deltrinoIf I make changes to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf without having cupsys installed and I then ran apt-get install cupsys, would it overwrite files? If it prompted me is there a way to default to it using the configuration file I wrote? Also, is there a way to accept installations of all packages but deny all configuration file overrides?09:22
ScottKBy default the package management system will not touch config files you've changed.09:23
ScottKIf it does, it's a bug.09:24
ScottKIf there's an issue, it should ask you.09:24
jack_deltrinoRight, that's what I was asking, is there a way to force it to one default behavior regardless?09:24
ScottKThere are ways to force the package management system to do stuff.  Normally it's not a good idea.09:25
jack_deltrinoScottK: Why is that?09:25
ScottKBecause if it asks you a question, it's a good idea to actually answer it rather than force one answer or another.09:26
jack_deltrinoScottK: I know exactly what I want replicated and so that's what I want replicated. I don't want the package management system to tell me that I need to wipe all my configuration options off. I would normally agree with you, but this particular situation is one in which I have total control over the system and I know exactly what I want to do.09:26
jack_deltrinowhat I want it to do*09:26
ScottKThere may be a system change that requires a new setting in the new version.  If you blindly keep the old, you could be in trouble.09:26
ScottKOK. man apt-get should tell you what you need to know then09:27
=== ScottK is going to bed (again).
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jack_deltrinoWell, I know there's a -y option, but I want to make sure it does it the way I explained. I'll double check it before bothering you though.09:27
LoneWolfSM /msg nickserv link smm wyggle09:28
=== ScottK was serious when I said I was going to bed. Also, this isn't a support channel. Try #ubuntu
ScottKLoneWolfSM: You'll want to pick a different password now.09:28
LoneWolfSMthanks :)09:28
ScottKLoneWolfSM: Try that on the freenode tab09:29
LoneWolfSM<-- sort of noob09:29
ScottKLook in the freenode FAQ.09:29
=== ScottK was going to bed.
jack_deltrinoBy the way, I don't think apt-get does that.09:30
jack_deltrinoIt only does yes or no. Not both in two separate ways as I specified.09:30
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\shjack_deltrino: what do you want exactly09:59
jack_deltrino\sh: I'll repeat it, tell me if anything is unclear specifically.10:00
jack_deltrinoIf I make changes to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf without having cupsys installed and I then ran apt-get install cupsys, would it overwrite files? If it prompted me is there a way to default to it using the configuration file I wrote? Also, is there a way to accept installations of all packages but deny all configuration file overrides?10:00
\shjack_deltrino: man apt.conf ; There is an "Assume-Yes" option which can be "true" or "false". False means normally, don't override configs you've changed by package default config10:01
Jucatoum just a quick question. what happened to nvu in feisty?10:01
jack_deltrino\sh: That's not all I wasn't asking though. I want it to assume *yes* for all package installations, but *no* for configuration file updates.10:02
jack_deltrino\sh: It's twofold and so far everyone has been telling me to look into the equivalent of -y or --assume-yes.10:02
\shjack_deltrino: because that is what you want...installing the binaries of a package has nothing to do with the configuration...assume yes is always for configuration files.10:04
\shjack_deltrino: please do a man apt-get and man apt.conf10:04
jack_deltrinoSo both -y and Assume-Yes=false does it?10:04
\sh-y means overwrite all configs with the package defaults, Assume-Yes=false means don't overwrite the configs you've touched with the default package configuration files10:05
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=== \sh 's doing some rollouts again...bbl
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jack_deltrino... That's *not* what I've been asking10:07
jack_deltrinoI need both yes for package installations and no for configuration files.10:07
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geserJucato: nvu was removed because it is unmaintained upstream, kompozer is the successor of nvu (but not yet in Ubuntu)10:39
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Jucatogeser: oh thanks (sorry, was afk)10:48
crimsunhappy release day, folks. (off to catch a flight)10:49
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\shhmmm.songbird is not in ubuntu? 10:53
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\shajmitch: first wave updated12:23
ajmitchI can't be bothered with this release mess & hype12:24
ajmitchI feel like going off to sleep :)12:24
\shit's just a release, that's all ,-)12:25
ajmitchit just means no updates on my box for a few days12:26
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\shajmitch: 456 servers updated .-.I'm done...and it's working :)12:32
imbrandonguess i need to update/upgrade all my servers too today12:35
imbrandonlol ajmitch 12:35
ajmitchimbrandon: why?12:36
imbrandonthe ones running edgy ( not dapper ones )12:36
ajmitchI'd wait a week or so12:37
=== ajmitch still has sarge boxes to upgrade
imbrandonthat and to get the final kernel etc on the buildd's12:37
imbrandonyea i might wait a few days12:37
imbrandonbut i'm off the next 3 ( after 12 noon today ) so i would kinda like to do it while i'm off12:37
imbrandonincase something breaks12:37
ajmitchall these people rushing to upgrade12:37
gouki #ubuntu-release-party12:39
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v4m21hey people where can I download ubuntu studio ?12:54
v4m21Yeah, Know that, is there any alpha or beta release of it ?12:57
pochuno idea :)12:58
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DarkSun88Hi all01:20
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pochuhi DarkSun8801:25
DarkSun88pochu: Hi :)01:25
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tiCo89Who is the account manager in ubuntu?01:27
jsgotangcoaccount manager?01:28
tiCo89the guy who adds people to the keyring on ftp-master ;)01:28
pochumaybe mail accounts? :)01:28
=== Fujitsu gets a drill and inserts some sanity into some people in #ubuntu-release-party.
pochutiCo89: ftpmaster@ubuntu.com01:28
FujitsutiCo89: We're not Debian.01:28
jsgotangcoFujitsu: you know its that time of the year when people go crazy about a distro's supposed release day01:29
StevenKpochu: I doubt that even works.01:29
ajmitchtiCo89: it's controlled by launchpad01:29
ajmitchultimately the tech board01:29
pochuStevenK: it was @debian, then ;)01:29
tiCo89Fujitsu: Hmmm look - I generally don't use Ubuntu but when I anyway maintain several packages in Debian I could upload them to Ubuntu as well01:29
ajmitchFujitsu: *stab*01:29
tiCo89but I don't like to search sponsors01:29
=== Fujitsu dies.
jsgotangcoi didn't notice there's now an army of ops in that channel lol01:30
StevenKVRFY ftpmaster@ubuntu.com01:30
StevenK550 <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table01:30
pochutiCo89: you can request syncs01:30
pochutiCo89: no need to upload if they're in debian01:30
StevenKpochu: So nyah01:30
FujitsutiCo89: You'll have to go through the MOTU Council to get upload rights. Otherwise, use our (hopefully close to optimal) sponsorship process.01:30
pochuStevenK: nice to know, ty :)01:30
tiCo89pochu: is this done automatically?01:30
pochutiCo89: yeah, at the beggining of the cicle, afaik01:30
StevenKcycle has a Y01:31
StevenKAnd no I01:31
pochutiCo89: and later you can request it reporting a bug01:31
=== pochu is learning :)
pochuStevenK: do you want to mentor me with my English? :-)01:31
StevenKpochu: My English is probably worse. :-P01:31
=== pochu doubts it
tiCo89pochu: nice... is there something like a "developers reference" or just those weird wikipages?01:32
pochuwe can mentor each one :p01:32
pochu!sync | tiCo89 01:32
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi01:32
StevenKtiCo89: I can't recall an Ubuntu developers ref.01:32
siretarttiCo89: I believe we had a special process for fast-tracking DDs in the past. We have redesigned that process several times, now you need to convince the Motu Council (and optionally other MOTUs) that giving you upload rights was a good idea. that's the current process 01:32
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StevenKI'd suggest you hang around for a bit first and see how things work.01:33
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StevenKWhen we aren't 24 hours away from release. :-)01:33
siretarttiCo89: there indeed was an efford to create an 'ubuntu developers reference', I'm not sure if it was finished, though01:33
tiCo89siretart: ah, k, I'm not a DD anyway, still waiting for DAM01:33
siretarttiCo89: basically it was based on the debian developers reference, with all debian specific parts replaced by ubuntu ones.01:33
StevenKAnd then there's the processes that Ubuntu has and Debian doesn't01:34
siretarttiCo89: generally, we ubuntu dudes use wikis do document our processes. and we irc a lot01:34
tiCo89hmm okey01:34
tiCo89but thats more efford to stay up2date :-/01:35
tiCo89anyway, I go to work now...01:35
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ajmitchnight all01:44
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pochunight ajmitch01:45
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RAOFI've probably been trying at the wrong times, but does ftp.debian.org *ever* work?02:03
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ScottKRAOF: What are you trying to do?02:03
=== RAOF is setting up a Sid chroot, so Specto can go upstream.
RAOFBootstrap sid, so I can make real debian packages :)02:04
ScottKCan you just pick a different mirror?02:04
RAOFYes, that's what I've done.  The .au mirror doesn't choke on "Retrieving Release" :)02:04
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ScottKdeb ftp://debian.mirrors.pair.com/ unstable main contrib non-free always works well for me.02:05
RAOFIs that a round-robin mirror set or something?02:05
ScottKIIRC, in answer to your actual question, I've used it before and it has worked for me.02:05
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RAOFHm, amazingly enough there's no "restricted" section in Debian :(02:09
ScottKJust non-free02:11
RAOFI should flag my sarcasm more obviously :)02:11
ScottKSorry, didn't sleep well last nigh.02:12
RAOFAlthough it seems there may be a documentation bug in feisty's default pbuilderrc.  It seems that, if COMPONENTS is not set, the default is "main restricted" rather than just "main".02:12
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=== proppy hugs dholbach_
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highvoltagehow can I find out where ~/.gconf/apps/panel/objects/email_launcher_screen0/%gconf.xml comes from? I'd like to prevent it from being created in the user's home directory02:59
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elkbuntu<mc44> Im sure Mith is just waiting for 13:37 UTC03:19
elkbuntuwell i found it funny ;)03:19
_MMA_highvoltage: Is that the Evolution panel launcher?03:21
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pochuwhy 13.37?03:22
ScottKhighvoltage: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=gconf.xml&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=stable&arch=i38603:22
StevenKpochu: Because mc44 is 14 years old.03:22
StevenKOr something.03:22
lupine_85I'm 21 and find it funny :p03:23
=== ScottK is 44 and completely doesn't get it.
StevenK1337 == Leet03:24
StevenKIf I have to spell it out.03:24
highvoltage_MMA_: yes03:24
ScottKStevenK: Thanks for the translation.03:24
highvoltageScottK: thanks03:25
lupine_85it's 1337 o'clock!03:25
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ScottKhighvoltage: NP.  You get that off of the file search on packages.debian.org for future reference.03:26
_MMA_highvoltage: In Ubuntu Studio we dont install Evo so it left a broken icon there. Do you want to see how we removed it?03:26
highvoltage_MMA_: that's *exactly* what I'm looking for :)03:27
pochuhighvoltage: Right click > Remove from panel :p03:27
highvoltagepochu: hah03:27
_MMA_highvoltage: Download this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/ubuntustudio-default-settings_0.1_all.deb Extract it and look at the usr/share/ubuntustudio-default-settings/panel-settings.entries file.03:28
highvoltage_MMA_: ok, doing now...03:28
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_MMA_highvoltage: I cant find the source package atm but if you need it I can get it later.03:29
highvoltage_MMA_: ah, I found what I looked for in there, thanks03:31
nixternalajmitch: sharms is after you man!03:39
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sharmsI have no power of ops here03:40
sharmsbest I can do is write mean things on the planet :)03:40
xqin chalk?03:49
xqor permanent marker?03:49
xqi prefer the permanent marker or the bloods03:49
sharmswell the problem is he is so productive, so I can't disturb his work for gutsy03:50
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xqmissiles aim -far-03:50
xqand you could go for one of those missiles that don't necessarily disturb.03:50
xqlike a shock-and-awe tactic.03:50
xqyou need/want to achieve the "awwwweeee sharms wants me"03:51
xqso...missile works.03:51
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mr_pouitmmh, I love SRUs =)04:06
mr_pouit   pypanel | 2.4-1.1build1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources04:06
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mr_pouit   pypanel |    2.4-1.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources04:06
mr_pouitwhat revision number can I set for edgy-proposed? :|04:07
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pochumr_pouit: ubuntuX.0~proposed104:18
pochuof course X is the latest revision in the package ;)04:18
pochusorry, I wanted to say ubuntuX.1~proposed1 :)04:19
pochuif there is no ubuntu revision, then ubuntu0.1~proposed104:19
pochumr_pouit: and the sru should be ubuntuX.1 :)04:20
mr_pouitpochu: then it would be greater than the version in feisty :(04:20
StevenKPersonally, I don't think pypanel is worth an SRU.04:21
StevenKBut that's just me.04:21
pochuMaybe I'm missing something04:21
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mr_pouitStevenK: even if the package is actually useless since it is empty?04:22
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Adri2000mr_pouit: edgy: 2.4-1.1build1, edgy-proposed: 2.4-1.1ubuntu0.1~proposed1, edgy-updates: 2.4-1.1ubuntu0.104:32
mr_pouitAdri2000: edgy ships 2.4-1.1 :$04:33
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Adri2000ah, I looked at the feisty line04:33
mr_pouitand feisty 2.4-1.1build1, so appending ubuntu0.X~prop1 to edgy version won't make it :/04:33
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Adri2000good point, edgy-updates' version will be >> feisty's04:36
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LaserJockif anybody is around from last night, my debian-tex svn checkout was 22GB05:03
HobbseeLaserJock: holy cow!05:04
ScottKLaserJock: Cool.05:04
ScottKAnd I felt bad having 219 MB of Edgy updates before I upgrade the production hard drive on my laptop...05:05
LaserJockthe scary thing is it's for less than 15 source packages05:06
LaserJockso that more than 1GB/package05:06
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sharmsSo who wants to help me with my bash spec?05:08
dqdevhello there05:11
psusibash spec?05:11
dqdevI just applied to become a motu-helpful05:11
dqdevhow long does it take to get an answer back from the mentor?05:11
dqdevthat I applied to?05:11
LaserJockdqdev: did you email me? mantha@ ?05:11
LaserJockdqdev: I'm really sorry I haven't responded yet05:12
dqdevI didnt get any answer and I got worried05:12
LaserJockdqdev: I've been swamped and we are thinking of moving to using a mentoring list rather than individual people05:12
LaserJockI was hoping to hear back on the mailing list creation before I emailed you05:12
ScottKI thought the process was show up here and harass people until they answer your questions...05:13
sharmsthat failed for me last week05:13
sharmsI was trying to fix some bitsize bugs, got stuck, and just ended up nobody knowledgeable could help05:13
LaserJockScottK: well, yes, that also works05:13
ScottKPersistence is a virtue.05:13
dqdevso... should we just wait?05:13
sharmsnow obviously I am sticking around here, constantly.  But for a new guy, that could be discouraging05:13
ScottKsharms: What bug?05:14
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LaserJockdqdev: well, not that you're here you've gotten past the important part :-)05:14
sharmsScottK: was just fixing XNC duplicate menu entry, couldn't figure out how to repackage it correctly05:14
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LaserJockdqdev: most MOTU learning happens here05:14
ScottKWhat's the bug #?05:14
dqdevok... I m eager to start05:14
ubotuMalone bug 45569 in xnc "Duplicate items in the applications menu" [Low,Confirmed]  05:14
LaserJockdqdev: if I sent you an email I'd link you to the Ubuntu Packaging Guide05:15
ubotuThe packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports05:15
sharmsfor the life of me I could not make debdiff work like I thought it worked05:15
dqdevLaserJock: do you already have some ideas about my contributions...?05:15
dqdevLaserJock: or how I am about to start?05:16
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ScottKsharms: How is this http://librarian.launchpad.net/7335210/xnc.debdiff different than what you wanted?05:16
dqdevLaserJock: I really dont know what is the exact procedure05:16
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dqdevLaserJock: or how things really work05:16
sharmsScottK: no that does the trick, just I had to edit out a bunch of junk in the diff because it caught a whole bunch of changes that were not changes05:16
sharmswhich leads me to believe I was doing something wrong05:16
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ScottKCan you pastebin the original debdiff?05:17
sharmsnot to mention the level 4 patch05:17
sharmsno I rm -rf the data already05:17
LaserJockdqdev: so it sounds like you're interested in science packages05:17
ScottKAFAIK as long as it applies 1-4 it's ok05:17
LaserJockdqdev: we've got the MOTU Science team05:17
dqdevLaserJock: yes...  that's what I would like to more to do05:18
ScottKsharms: How did you build your binary package to test it?05:18
sharmsScottK: can you verify the procedure I went through is right?05:18
dqdevLaserJock: or to get involved into05:18
sharmsScottK: first I apt-get source packagename, then I cp -r packagename to packagename.new, then I make changes and increment changelog for new packagename, then I run debuild -S -us -uc on newpackage, then I run pbuild build newpackage.dsc, then I do a debdiff with orig.dsc and new.dsc05:19
sharmsor am I missing something?05:19
LaserJockdqdev: well, right now there isn't a ton to do since we just released Feisty05:20
sharmsThere are 30,000 bugs05:20
sharmsthat seems like a bunch to do!05:20
LaserJockdqdev: but you can certainly read up on the packaging guides, hang out here, and work on things like bug triaging like sharms just said05:20
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ScottKsharms: -us -uc builds the binary package too.  If the clean rules are buggy (they often are) that'll pollute your source tree05:21
dqdevok... could you assign me to smth really easy for starterts??05:21
sharmsScottK: what is the proper method?05:21
LaserJockdqdev: read the packaging guide :-)05:21
ScottKsharms: AFAIK, no05:21
dqdevhehe.. ok05:21
sharmsdqdev: there are bug "tags" somewhere on the wiki there is a link, and there are bugs called bitesized05:21
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sharmsScottK: ah so you are saying that it was the package that did it because of buggy clean rules, not my procedure05:22
sharmsScottK: if that happens should I also fix their makefile?05:22
ScottKsharms: No05:22
LaserJockdqdev: also look at the Science bug list at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html05:22
ScottKsharms: If you are fixing a bug, all you are obligated to do is fix the bug.05:23
ScottKIf you know make files and can work that out too, that's a bonus.05:23
ScottKUnless it's for an SRU, for an SRU you do the smallest change possible05:23
ScottKI always debuild -S -sa, and then build the binary with pbuilder05:24
dqdevsomething about the procedure, which is still not quite clear to me05:24
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ScottKThis means I sign the source package, which I don't need for a debdiff, but that way it's the same for me for debdiff or REVU05:24
ScottKsharms: You good with that?05:25
dqdevdo you tell me what bug to fix, or on what package to work on or do I pick one on my own???05:25
sharmsyeah I appreciate the help05:25
ScottKNP - You were really close.  I did the same thing when I started05:25
LaserJockdqdev: hehe, it's very loose here. Do whatever you like, find a package you like or just work on everything05:26
ScottKdqdev: As a piece of advice, find a bug tagged both bitesize and packaging.05:26
bddebianHeya gang05:26
LaserJockdqdev: as we start Gutsy Gibbon we'll probably get some more direction05:26
LaserJockScottK: yes, good advice05:26
sharmsbddebian: hey05:26
dqdevso I dont really need to be assigned by you to a project/task05:26
bddebianHi ScottK, sharms, LaserJock05:26
ScottKdqdev: Just go to work05:27
ScottKhigh bddebian05:27
sharmsI think that is one point that should be addressed through motu-mentoring: The scope of understanding motu tasks is very large and intimidating to outsiders05:29
LaserJockdqdev: heavens no05:31
LaserJocksharms: yes, I agree05:32
LaserJockdqdev: we aren't *that* mean ;-)05:32
_MMA_LaserJock made me cry once. :(05:33
LaserJockoh come on05:33
LaserJockthat wasn't intentional ;-)05:33
_MMA_Well, you should have paid for the cab afterward then. :(05:34
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shawarmaWhen does Gutsy open? I'm bored.05:34
dqdevok... I ll look around and start working on smthng05:35
Hobbseeshawarma: hah.  already?05:36
zulshawarma: when its ready05:36
shawarmaHobbsee: Yeah, let's get this thing going.05:37
shawarmaHobbsee: :-)05:37
shawarmazul: Clever.05:37
sharmsyou know, I really did like edgy05:37
shawarmaHobbsee: It beats the heck out of doing laundry.. which reminds me..05:38
=== shawarma wanders off for a bit..
sharmsnow you have to wonder if dqdev is coming back05:38
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Hobbseeshawarma: haha05:38
Hobbseeshawarma: give them a day off :P05:38
sharmsmaybe a guide, like web 2.0 style, that breaks down motu into super small pieces much like the bitesize bugs05:39
Hobbseeshawarma: that's what you can do.  update all the documentation05:39
ScottKsharms: It's a wiki.  Have at it.05:40
sharmsI can guarantee that dqdev just went to the documentation, got overwhelmed, and logged off ubuntu-motu05:40
sharmsYeah I might do that, just the only limitation being my knowledge05:41
crimsuneh, at least he avoided the sharp, pointy teeth.05:41
ScottKsharms: Perfect.  Write the newbies guide to getting started in MOTU.05:41
ScottKsharms: Do it now.  Wait and you'll know to much.05:42
=== sharms needs to learn to keep his mouth shut :)
LaserJocksharms: well, I have something in the works05:42
sharmsI was just hoping with advancements in technology that I could just load motu skills via matrix like plug in my head05:43
ScottKsharms: I got the same treatment from the DD that agreed to upload my stuff in Debian, so I recently wrote this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam05:43
LaserJockwell, we need massive overhaul of documentation05:44
LaserJockbut it requires people willing to do it05:44
=== Hobbsee has a half-framework, as such
Hobbseebut it needs lots of work05:44
ScottKLaserJock: True, but I think what sharms is trying to avoid volunteering to do is something we need that's distinct from what we have now.05:45
LaserJockyes, that's what I mean by overhaul05:45
sharmsyeah I just have a business trip coming up here soon, but I am thinking about it05:45
LaserJockagain, I've got something in the works05:45
LaserJockhopefully I can get it going by UDS05:45
ScottKOK, so we can all quit working on docs because LaserJock has it covered?05:46
LaserJocks/it going/a mockup/ ;-)05:46
LaserJockoh pfftt05:46
LaserJockwe really really need to get a gameplan together05:46
LaserJockwhat do we want to document?05:46
sharmsI think I will design on independent of your efforts laserjock, mine focusing on brand new people, and we can meet in the middle somewhere05:46
=== davromaniak is now known as help
LaserJockhow do we want to document it?05:47
=== help is now known as davromaniak
sharmsI want to make a web 2.0, rounded corners, tons of pictures guide05:47
LaserJocksharms: I'd rather it be a consistent community efforts05:47
ScottKsharms: Start with the wiki.05:47
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ScottKGet the right info into a new page there.05:47
HobbseeLaserJock: we need it to be from a MOTU-incommer perspective05:47
LaserJocksharms: well, to some extent, don't "dumb" it down too much05:47
HobbseeLaserJock: http://buntudot.org/people/~hobbsee/misc/MOTU type style05:48
sharmsWiki is too overwhelming for me, I will use it as a reference, but I am just not knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable editing existing pages05:48
LaserJockyes, exactly05:48
=== LaserJock calls a timeout
LaserJockhang on people05:48
zul2 minutes for roughing?05:48
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LaserJockok, so clearly we have several people thinking similar things05:49
LaserJockbut not working together ;-)05:49
ScottKsharms: Make a new page.  Don't edit exiting05:49
HobbseeLaserJock: might be a plan to work by gobby05:49
shawarmaHobbsee: I'm not really in my I-feel-like-doing-some-documentation-writing mood. I'm not even sure I have such a mood.05:49
LaserJocklet's put together a MOTU Docs gameplan/roadmap05:49
Hobbseeshawarma: heh05:49
LaserJockI want to see "what" we want for documentation before we go and start writing things all over the place05:50
sharmsMy real goal is super low barrier of entry through aesthetics, organization, and media05:50
LaserJockthe MOTU documentation should be in 1 place05:50
ScottKBut in the meantime whatever sharms comes up with can be integrated into it.  I think he's solving a different problem.05:50
ScottKLaserJock: That's about structure, not content.05:50
LaserJockyes, but I think we need structure before he head into content05:51
ScottKIf sharms makes new content, it can be integrated into the structure.05:51
LaserJockwe need to be consistent05:51
LaserJocknot if he doesn't know what else is going on05:51
LaserJockand how it fits togethere05:51
sharmsdo I ever?05:51
ScottKLaserJock: Thus my comment about we all wait.05:51
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LaserJockwell, since people are in the mood I want to capture it ;-)05:51
ScottKHe sees a hole, he should fill it.05:52
sharmsha my real goal is this: transform slomo into a webpage 05:52
=== ScottK doesn't recall a huge amount of trouble with the documentationb, but is also not easily intimidated.
LaserJockwell, there's a couple issues here05:52
LaserJock1) documentation should look nice and be organized and complete05:53
LaserJock2) there will basically always be a barrier to learning packaging, we can't get rid of it via pretty pictures05:53
LaserJockwe don't want to make it too easy, but we don't want to make it unneccesarily hard either05:54
sharmsI think pretty pictures help with visualization, and we need to use as much media as possible to hit all the parts of the brain05:54
sharmsit works great for web-frameworks05:54
LaserJocknot necessarily, but kinda yeah05:54
LaserJocksome people work better that way05:54
LaserJockothers don't05:54
LaserJockit's one of the hard parts of documentation05:55
LaserJockhowever, I'm not nearly as concerned with specific media05:55
LaserJockin the end we kinda need to cover lots of different media05:55
LaserJockso I like sharms idea05:56
sharmsThats why I like the desktop screenshots on behind motu.  When you don't get those, the average reader ends up thinking that MOTU is about having 30 monitors and assembly code everywhere05:56
LaserJockwhich often isn't far from the truth05:56
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=== welshbyte turns off 29 monitors and switches off the soldering iron
welshbytewas just looking at an eclipse bug05:58
LaserJockthe, it's not necessarily an easy thing05:58
LaserJockthe Documentation Team, for instance, doesn't have a single screenshot in the Ubuntu documentation, that I know of05:58
LaserJockit's difficult to keep updated, for one05:59
LaserJockit can be also hard for an essentially CLI task like packaging05:59
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welshbytethose grey monospace boxes with CLI commands are good for that, as long as the command is explained so that the reader knows exactly what it's doing06:00
welshbyteotherwise there's no learning06:00
sharmsI also like information boxes, where we have a box with a tango (!) logo that says information critical to the article06:01
sharmsbasically kind of copy of fedoras doc style a bit06:01
LaserJockwell, I do that with the packaging guide06:01
LaserJockessentially there's a couple problems, as I see it anyway.06:02
LaserJock1) the Packaging Guide is mostly just about packaging, not about MOTU06:02
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LaserJockso there isn't much on processes, how to get involved, etc.06:02
LaserJock2) MOTU wiki documentation is kinda scattered, outdate, redundant at times06:03
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LaserJock3) we don't have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference yet, which would help with 1)06:03
LaserJockany other problems?06:05
sharmsMaybe we need to divide it up, because we need a bland, technical reference, and a flashy newbie reference06:05
cbx33we need a process part too06:05
cbx33in the n00b section prboably06:05
sharmssince once you know it, you don't want the hand holding as much06:06
cbx33maybe 06:06
cbx33like nice shiney equipment has when it comes06:06
LaserJocksharms: well, that's essentially how I saw the Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference06:06
cbx33Getting started Guide06:06
cbx33and a full on hands dirty thingy06:06
sharmsLaserJock: yeah I don't know if I was focusing specifically on packaging, or on being an all around contributor 06:06
LaserJockwe do have a "Contributing to Ubuntu" doc06:07
LaserJockin the doc team repo06:07
cbx33i think the problem is06:07
cbx33ther are so many ways to contribute06:07
cbx33we need a short doc for each06:07
cbx33answering the same sorts of questions06:07
sharmsWhat I am looking for is something that only my mentor was able to give me, that I want to reproduce so we can help jumpstart that step06:07
cbx33sharms, agreed06:07
welshbytei like the idea of having exercises at the end of the documentation page or summaries of what was covered and what you should now be able to do06:08
sharmsThe documentation left me stranded and confused, the mentor answered all my questions not answered by the docs06:08
LaserJockyes, it's just hard to replace people by documentation :-)06:08
cbx33sharms, which doc?06:08
LaserJockthat's why I'm advocating a motu-mentors mailing list06:08
cbx33LaserJock, good idea06:08
sharmscbx33: its been awhile, no clue anymore, but I read all the wiki docs, and I even bought the debian book which was recommended just for the packaging section06:08
LaserJockwe need a 3 prong (at least) approach of IRC, Mailing List, Docs06:09
cbx33LaserJock's pacakging guide helped me a lot06:09
cbx33I keep it in my drawer at work ;)06:09
welshbyte+1 on motu-mentors@06:09
LaserJockcbx33: funny, I have a copy of the Debian New Maintainer's Guide in my drawer at work06:09
LaserJockcbx33: I forgot I had it then found it yesterday when I was digging around in my desk06:09
cbx33mine keeps losing a page at a time each time I open and close the drawer06:10
LaserJockI've got a print copy here06:10
LaserJockvery first book buy the doc team on lulu.com06:10
sharmsI like this page: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/developers-guide/ch-rpm-building.html    --- they make use of a great color scheme, grey code boxes, and information boxes with icons06:11
sharmsI want to take that, and take it 1 more level into readabilityu06:12
LaserJocksharms: and that's different than http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html06:12
sharmsno actually that doc looks better06:12
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sharmsthe ubuntu one06:13
LaserJockI'm telling ya, we're not totally full of crack over here ;-)06:13
LaserJockwe need improvements for sure06:14
LaserJockbut I still feel like the Ubuntu Packaging Guide is about the easiest resource we've got for learning to package06:14
sharmsyeah actually I really like that style, do we have a reference like that for "top 10 most common MOTU tasks"06:15
LaserJockI'd like to make it more "user friendly" but we also need to preserve the detailed reference part06:15
LaserJockhence having both a Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference06:15
welshbytethe ubuntu packaging guide is great, but i think it ends too soon06:15
LaserJockok, so 3 distinct docs:06:16
welshbytefor instance, python packages are pretty popular in ubuntu but i don't think the packaging guide mentions them in much detail06:16
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LaserJock1) packaging guide - learning how to create debian packages, generic06:17
LaserJock2) developer's reference - Ubuntu-specific reference on processes, etc.06:17
LaserJock3) MOTU guide - MOTU specific, how to get invloved06:17
LaserJocksound about right?06:18
sharmsyeah but getting involved needs to have detailed sections06:18
sharmsHow to create a debdiff, how to check upstream trackers for open bugs etc06:18
cbx33LaserJock, the guide is the easiest for learning packaging06:19
LaserJockok, so I think 1) and 2) can stay as they are as docbook/HTML06:19
LaserJock3) I think should probably be a wiki guide06:19
sacaterjuist got back from my bike ride06:20
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LaserJockhi sacater :-)06:20
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LaserJockthe problem with the MOTU Guide, and why I didn't do it in the packaging guide, is that it will change a lot06:20
=== sacater goes for update manager...
LaserJockit's not like a reference where you write it and then just do a little maintanence06:21
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LaserJocksacater: good luck, I'm guessing the download speed will be not so great06:21
sacateroh yeah06:21
LaserJockHobbsee: where'd you go?06:21
sacatereveryone will be getting it06:21
HobbseeLaserJock: here06:22
Hobbseei think06:22
=== Hobbsee checks
=== Hobbsee looks around for the Hobbsee
sacaterLaserJock: translation_US is down :o06:22
ScottKsacater: If you've been running Feisty development versions and you're up to date, then you've got it.06:22
sacaterTranslation-en-US isnt working06:23
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sacaterits either down or ridiculously busy06:24
sacateroh, done06:24
HobbseeLaserJock: nope, lost her06:24
sacaterno updates yay!06:24
LaserJockHobbsee: what do you think of all of ^^?06:26
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HobbseeLaserJock: the part that i took in sounded sensbiel06:26
LaserJockwell, maybe we should spec it out06:27
sharmsHobbsee: translation: the parts that were not sharms were sensible 06:27
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LaserJockHobbsee: have you started any writing on the stuff that 06:29
LaserJocktha's in the outline you gave?06:29
HobbseeLaserJock: all i've got written out is that outline06:29
Hobbseeand that's very much a WIP06:30
Hobbseeits' mostly in my brain06:30
LaserJockuh oh ;-)06:30
Hobbseealong with the plans of world domination06:30
Hobbseespeaking of which, when are the golden pony awards?06:30
LaserJockvery soon06:31
Hobbseeyay :)06:31
LaserJockI'm guessing today if I get around to it06:31
LaserJockI might wait until all the "OMG FEISTY!!!!" is out of the way ;-)06:31
Hobbseeand planet comes up again06:31
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cbx33and down again06:33
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nixternalhaha, I was just noticing the same thing. docs.ubuntu.com has been doing the same06:38
sharmsnixternal: I hear its because of my enhancedbash spec06:41
nixternalmuhahahahaha I doubt it ;p06:41
LaserJocksharms: lol06:41
Amaranthponingru: lupine_85 is in here :)06:41
poningruthanks :D06:41
poningrulupine_85: ping06:42
poningrudoes the beryl package in feisty automagically enable compositing for X? or does that need to be done manually?06:42
lupine_85composite is enabled in the X server by default06:43
lupine_85the beryl package doesn't play with any X server or driver settings at all06:43
sharmsthat sounds more like a question for #ubuntu06:44
sharmsor even #ubuntu-effects06:44
lupine_85Composite "true" is the default on newer X.org servers06:44
poningruhmm ok thanks06:44
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zenI noticed that the topic said the entire archive is frozen for release...does that mean that we can't get Thunderbird in?06:46
zenBleh, that sucks...06:47
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crimsunwe don't change frozen, released stable versions.06:48
crimsunbesides, mozilla-thunderbird is a main package and not our jurisdiction (mostly)06:48
geserand you don't get a new untested upstream version short before the release into the archive06:49
crimsunon another note, I guess we could watch -bugs and start tagging SRU candidates06:50
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sharmsdqdev: how is it going so far?06:50
dqdevi m just reading stuff in the WIKI06:50
sharmsdqdev: is anything really unclear so far?06:51
joejaxxHappy Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn Release Everyone :)06:51
dqdevwell to be honest, it's a lot of info for a first time06:51
zenHeh, happy release.06:51
dqdevand the work-order is a little bit obscure06:51
dqdevbut ill figure it out06:51
dqdevreading the manual now...06:52
crimsunhas anyone pointed dqdev to /TODO?06:52
sharmsdqdev: make sure if you have questions, don't get frustrated, just ask here06:52
dqdevi found the page THINGS TO BE DONE06:52
sharmscrimsun: if he was just pointed to MOTU docs, I am sure he has hours of reading ahead as it is06:52
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crimsunsometimes it's easier to dive right in and fix bugs, then go back and read overview docs06:53
dqdevto the tip that I got before, hence to look first at bitesize bugs06:53
dqdevwhat are exactly? easy bugs to fix?06:53
sharmsyeah they are the bugs that people getting started can fix06:53
crimsunyes, small, easily explained/understood bugs that can be fixed quickly06:53
sharmsso bitesized bugs only take people like me 2-4 weeks to fix06:54
dqdevok... I should really start from there06:54
sharmsjk :) although I do need a new comp, pbuilder is killing me06:54
zenwell, doesn't look like tb2's installer works anyways... =\06:55
sharmszen: yeah you probably want to join their IRC channel instead since 2.0.0 isnt a part of ubuntu06:55
zensharms, yeah, I'm there.06:56
=== sharms is going to get lunch, shuts off 30 computer screens :)
dqdevin order to start working on a bug, do I have to subscribe to it? And if yes, can I do that on my own?07:01
crimsunyou do not have to sub to it, but it's a good idea. Yes, you can sub on your own to any public bug.07:02
dqdevok, thanks07:02
dqdevand something more...07:02
dqdevlet's say that I try to fix a simple bug (a simple one that I see here: supertux no menu icon)07:03
dqdevexcuse the following silly questions, but I have to start from somewhere07:03
LaserJockthey aren't silly07:04
dqdevthen i trace the problem, fix the problem and then do I have to do the packaging from starT?07:04
crimsunno, you provide what's called a debdiff.07:04
dqdevok... have to read some more...07:04
dqdevsorry . shouldnt hurry07:05
crimsunthe packaging guide on your system (and online) has instructions for generating a debdiff.07:05
dqdevi'm reading it right now07:06
sacatermay i now ask what the next release is going to be called07:06
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LaserJocksacater: Gutsy Gibbon07:06
zulisnt it gusty?07:07
sacatergusy gibbon07:07
Adri2000no, gutsy :)07:07
nixternalit isn't flatulent!!!07:07
sacaterha ha07:07
sacaterill take all the Q+A for 'gutsy'07:07
dqdevdo I have to be member of any Launchpad Team, before I start working on some bug?07:11
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ScottKIf you are working on triaging, joining bugsquad is good.07:11
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nixternalthat Ubuntu FGLXR button or what not to install the binary blobs is wreaking havoc here at the install fest07:20
nixternalit is freezing every machine07:26
nixternalfglrx btw07:26
ScottKBug #??07:26
nixternalright at X, you loose all control, can't ctrl+alt+f1 into a term, power and reset are your friends at that poing07:27
nixternalwell, the bug would be naked. it doesn't even write a xorg log at all07:27
ScottKIt's a start...07:28
nixternalwe can fill the report in with "it just locks, you can't do anything, no logs, can't do this or that" ;)07:28
nixternalwe are trying manual installation now to see if it is the button way, or if it is fglrx in general07:28
ScottKThat's better than some we get.07:28
nixternalhaha true07:28
crimsunA nice long vacation until gutsy+1 would be nice.07:29
ScottKbug 10772007:29
ubotuMalone bug 107720 in Ubuntu "have no idea" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10772007:29
bddebiancrimsun: Go for it, you deserve it! :-)07:29
nixternalcrimsun: I hear you there! where do you want to go?07:29
crimsunnixternal: Vista, duh.07:29
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nixternalI knew that was going to be the answer07:29
nixternallunch time07:30
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sacaterpochu: ive topped you on karma :P07:36
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pochusacater: you rock! :)07:38
sacaterthank very much07:38
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sacaterpochu: me works as* off07:39
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graymannow all women will stand in line to your booth instead ;)07:40
ubotuMalone bug 107738 in network-manager-pptp "network-manager-pptp doesn't exists in Ubuntu!" [Undecided,Confirmed]  07:42
sharmsis this guy BaBL being a troll or just bad english?07:42
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graymana troll07:44
graymanfamous Russian sarcasm07:44
graymansome people just don't know where -not- to use it07:46
sharmsyeah it just makes it hard to tell with language barriers07:46
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graymanwell, this package needs to be moved to main07:47
graymanwhile in Federal cities most people use adsl, in oter parts of the country vpn is still very popular07:48
sharmsWe are sorry for your frustration, but as you were not involved in development at any point, and pptp required by default install is a fringe case (< 1%) I don't know how we would have figured that out. This bug is a great start to getting this included for Gutsy, so you are on the right track.07:49
sharmsthat was my response07:49
graymangood enough07:49
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zuloh let the crackful ideas on the ubuntuforums begin08:49
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ScottKzul: Way to late.08:53
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sharmsis anyone else concerned about the 40% drop in performance going to gcc 4.2?08:57
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=== danohuiginn reads scrollback, likes the ideas for overhauling the docs
LaserJockhmm, me thinks Planet must be down09:04
gnomefreakpsusi: http://www.whatimiss.net/ubuntu-devel/?m=2007040209:04
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gnomefreakhttp://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-02/msg00390.html may give more insite09:04
zulLaserJock: I think it might has something to do with feisty and being released today09:06
LaserJockperhaps, it was working fine for me09:07
zulits working for me fine though09:07
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tiCo89dget http://www.marioiseli.com/debian/sid/main/source/net/mcabber_0.9.1-1.dsc09:27
tiCo89can anyone modify it for me and upload it to ubuntu? thank you09:27
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LaserJocktiCo89: nobody can upload right now, Feisty is just released and Gutsy Gibbon hasn't opened09:30
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tiCo89LaserJock: hmmm okey, but you can echo it >> ~/ubuntu/TODO09:30
LaserJock!info mcabber feisty09:31
ubotumcabber: Small Jabber console client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.3-1 (feisty), package size 142 kB, installed size 688 kB09:31
LaserJocktiCo89: it'll automatically get synced into gutsy09:31
ivoksi have load 66 on hr.archive.ubuntu.com09:38
tiCo89ivoks: *grin* :)09:39
ivoks600 active conections09:41
LaserJockyeah, I wonder if we'll get numbers on how many downloads there were today09:42
ivoksi'll be able to tell you that as soon as i manage to open logs :D09:43
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ScottKI did patches for Bug #107628 - Before it gets to much farther along for security, I'd appreciate a sanity check from a MOTU...09:51
ubotuMalone bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10762809:51
keescookScottK: the patches look good, I sent a comment about using "dpatch" to incorporate them into the packages, though.  good work!  :)09:52
ScottKI just saw it.09:52
ScottKThe older packages didn't have a /patches dir, so it seemes sensible to not make one to keep the diff small.09:53
keescookScottK: okay, cool.  Yeah, I didn't check dapper, just edgy's package.09:54
ScottKHang on though.09:54
keescookI have a script to help me guess at the patch systems: http://outflux.net/debian/scripts/what-patch09:54
=== ScottK may have missed it. Looking agaon
ScottKkeescook: Nevermind.  I"m just to tired.  09:55
ScottKI got not much sleep last night.09:55
ScottKThe patch systems are there.09:55
keescookdoh!  no problem.  :)09:55
ScottKIf you want me to redo, I will, but probably not until tomorrow.09:55
=== ScottK needs to go lie down....
keescooksure, no rush.  :)  g'night!  :)09:56
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:DarkSun88] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers |or release
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dqdevIs there a WIKI page that describes the whole process on how to truck and fix a bug?10:20
tonyyarussoWow tony, just wow10:20
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=== tonyyarusso read that as "Is there a WIKI page that describes the whole process on how to fit a truck in a bag?"
dqdevyes... Or any general help?10:21
ubotuIf you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots10:21
tonyyarussoHrm, that's mostly reporting10:21
dqdevlet me explain you10:22
tonyyarussoWell, subscribing to it in LP is the first step10:22
dqdevi found a bitesize bug 10:22
dqdevfor newbies like me10:22
dqdevin LP10:22
dqdevwhat step should i follow10:23
tonyyarussoThere should be a button on the LP page like "Assign to me", go ahead and do that.10:23
tonyyarussoDo you magical fun stuff, then poke someone in here or send to the -motu mailing list when you have a fix to get someone to sponsor the upload10:23
dqdevconcerning this magical stuff10:24
dqdevand excuse my silly questioning10:24
tonyyarussoThat depends on the bug - if it's code I'm useless ;)10:24
dqdevsince I am not really an expert10:24
dqdevwhat's the line of work?10:24
dqdevdo i download the source10:24
dqdevand try to find some mistakes there?10:25
tonyyarussoYeah, apt-get source yourpackagename10:25
tonyyarussoWhich bug?10:25
tonyyarussobug 10551510:25
ubotuMalone bug 105515 in supertux "Missing menu icon for superTux" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10551510:25
dqdeva very simple one10:25
tonyyarussoAh, very nice.10:26
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tonyyarussoYeah, you'll be concerned with the /debian directory of the source package only.10:26
dqdevso 1st step is download the source10:26
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tonyyarussoAll it takes is making an icon (I'd have to look up the size), putting it in there, and adding it to the desktop file10:26
somerville32Who butchered the topic?10:27
tonyyarussoAssign it to yourself so nobody else duplicates your work in the meantime.10:27
dqdevnice directions tony montana - helped a lot10:27
dqdevok, cool10:27
dqdevthe film with al pacino10:28
dqdevtony montana10:28
dqdevwhen you say 'assign'10:29
dqdevyou mean subscribe/?10:29
tonyyarussoClick the supertux (ubuntu) part under "Affects"10:29
dqdevi found it10:29
tonyyarussoIt's an option in what drops down from that10:30
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:pochu] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html | HAPPY UNIVERSE HUG DAY | Entire archive is frozen for release
pochusomerville32: fixed ;)10:35
=== somerville32 cheers.
somerville32When are the archives going to open for Gutsy?10:36
LaserJockok people10:36
pochusomerville32: they have to run the publisher10:36
pochuhi LaserJock10:36
LaserJockthe momement you've all been waiting for is here10:37
LaserJockthe Ponies are up10:37
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LaserJockalthough since right now the DC seems slammed you might want to try a direct url: http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/second-semiannual-golden-pony-awards/10:38
somerville32Is it a pink pony?10:38
LaserJockit's a Golden Pony :-)10:38
somerville32A Golden Pink Pony?10:39
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pochuLaserJock: funny :) just a side note: it's burgundavia, not burgundivia :)10:43
pochuor is it another joke? :)10:43
LaserJockno thanks10:43
LaserJockI always spell it wrong10:43
pochuoh, ok :)10:44
somerville32LaserJock, What about keybuck?10:44
pochuthen, spell it burgunvidia :)10:44
somerville32He is obvisously the hottest male actor.10:44
LaserJockwell, I could literally do hundreds of them10:45
LaserJockI just do a few for fun10:46
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somerville32I like it.10:46
welshbyteLaserJock: unless bddebian has lost weight, you misspelled "deity" :)10:48
LaserJockwelshbyte: thanks, that's another one I can't seem to spell right10:49
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LaserJockhonest, I did go to school you guys ;-)10:49
ajmitchmorning alll10:55
ajmitchoh that's welcoming10:55
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=== ajmitch should head back to bed
LaserJockajmitch: ponies are up ;-)10:55
ajmitchLaserJock: thanks very much10:55
ajmitchI just saw it10:55
sharmsajmitch: I saw that kick last night, you are on my list of people to abuse ops on :)10:59
=== ajmitch is innocent, it was all nixternal
sharmsyeah me too 10:59
ajmitchblame LaserJock 11:00
ajmitchhe's the one being mean & cruel11:01
sharmsno he has documentation work to do -- chop chop11:01
=== LaserJock runs
sharmsI am stressing out today, I need to quit my current job because I have a better job that I agreed to go work for11:04
sharmsbut my current boss is really hard to deal with, and it wont be easy11:04
sharmsthis is my second time trying to quit11:04
dqdevit is the same with me trying to brake up with my gf :)11:04
sharmsI work from home so I get to do it over the phone, but that almost makes it harder since I am intimidating in person11:05
sharmsmy game plan is to call him in 25 minutes, and say "I need to put in my 30 days notice, I am not happy with my current job"11:06
sharmsand be vague and don't give him a chance to argue my points11:06
sharmsany other advice?11:06
sharmsbah fine throw me to the wolves11:08
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sacaterLaserJock: so, since the release, are bug reports flooding?11:09
sacateror is feisty bug free :D11:09
sharmsI have got a few myself, sshfs + encfs, democracy-player11:09
sharmsand there are a bunch of reports about quick buttons on laptops not working, and that feisty runs "slow"11:10
jmg"runs slow"11:10
sharmsyeah I havent noticed anything but I have been running it for a long time11:10
sacaterim fine too11:10
sharmsfeisty + 1 gcc 4.2 really scares me though11:10
sacateranyone know when the dev version of gusty will be available11:11
jmgeverything "runs slow"11:11
sacaterdont like wind :P11:11
sacaterjmg: fine for me11:11
sharmsif they go with gcc 4.2 that is up to a 40% performance reduction11:11
jmgno i mean11:11
jmgits all slow11:11
sacatersharms: a good increase would be changing bootup bash to C#11:11
sacatermuch much much faster11:11
lupine_85sacater: no, I suggest we implement everything in BBC BASIC :p11:12
jmgsacater: just write a JIT compiler for bash code 11:12
sharmsyeah what I am talking about affects every single program thougjh11:12
sacaterall talk to Uber in #gentoo11:12
sacaterhe did it for gentoo11:12
sacatermy mates laptop boots in 2 seconds11:12
sacaterask him11:13
sacaterhis name is welp11:13
sacatergentoo dev11:13
tonyyarussolol at the Golden Ponies11:13
sharmsSpec: doh meant blueprint spec11:13
sacaterand ask Uber about bash << C'11:13
tonyyarussoajmitch is a dinosaur?11:14
jmgOMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11:14
LaserJockI particularlly enjoyed bddebian's award11:16
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sharmsLaserJock: where is my award for "best spec fanboy"11:17
geserLaserJock: is there a hi-res picture of the award?11:17
LaserJockI just grabbed it off of yahoo image search11:17
Specsharms: it's my award.11:18
ajmitchtonyyarusso: according to LaserJock I am11:18
sharmsIn fact, in the weblog entry you could add the "best spec fanboy" and have it link directly to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash11:18
tonyyarussoExcuse me, _yahoo_ image search?11:18
sharmsI hear that it is getting a lot of team behind it11:18
sharmsand its a "vista killer"11:18
tonyyarussoajmitch: so that makes you what, 40?11:18
sharmssteam rather11:18
LaserJocksharms: why don't you blog it :-)11:18
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LaserJockGolden Ponies: Take 211:18
sharmsLaserJock: I hit my limit before people start flaming me11:18
ajmitchtonyyarusso: no, I'm apparantly just mean & bitter 11:18
LaserJocktonyyarusso: what about yahoo image search?11:19
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tonyyarussoLaserJock: Who still uses yahoo?  Google ftw!11:19
LaserJockmy Home Page at home is still Yahoo11:19
jmgim confused11:24
jmgthis guardian article seems to think xubuntu will install in 64mb of memory11:24
ScottKIsn't that what the xubuntu web site says is the minimum?11:26
arejaybug 10764811:27
ubotuMalone bug 107648 in Ubuntu "The Ubuntu community is insane" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10764811:27
jmgstatement probably true11:27
Monk-eAny core devs here?11:28
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somerville32Monk-e, maybe.11:30
somerville32Is lp slow today too?11:31
Monk-eGuess I'll just shoot, bug 10781311:31
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ubotuMalone bug 107813 in devmapper "Incompatible libdevmapper 1.02.08 (2006-07-17)(compat) and kernel driver" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10781311:31
sacaterhey, does anyone mind if i make a sort of motu testing doc, questions about packages etc11:31
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sacaterpackage nameing system and such11:32
sharmssacater: talk with laserjock too, he is talking about doing some doc stuff11:32
sacaterLaserJock: ?11:32
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LaserJocksacater sharms: I was thinking of use Moodle to create a MOTU classes11:46
superm1LaserJock, when were you planning on hosting another class?11:46
LaserJockI'm doing 2 sessions of Packaging 101 next week for Open Week11:47
superm1ah okay11:47
superm1crimsun mentioned doing one on apport and retraces, any idea if that will be in the near future too?11:47
LaserJockwe haven't formalized anything yet, I don't think11:48
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ajmitchLaserJock: there's an open week?11:50
LaserJockstarts Monday11:50
ajmitchshows how much I've been watching11:51
ajmitchor it just hasn't been publicised11:51
LaserJockthe later11:51
ajmitchmust be only the important people who take part :)11:51
LaserJockI didn't know about it until I was asked to do the sessions11:51
LaserJockand that was just a couple days ago11:51
LaserJockjono blogged about it today though11:51
jmgurl to ponies?11:53
LaserJockhmm, does anybody actually *buy* Viagra by clicking on spam on sombodies blog?11:54
LaserJockjmg: planet.ubuntu.com11:54
LaserJockor laserjock.worldpress.com if you like11:54
ajmitchopen week might be interesting11:54
sharmsLaserJock: moodle looks pretty neat11:54
jmgLaserJock: apparently so11:55
LaserJocksharms: it might be cool if it isn't too difficult11:55
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LaserJocksharms: I've got it set up on my server, trying to figure out how it works, etc.11:56
LaserJockI'd like to have like a mockup to show for UDS11:56
jmghow come Australia has a LoCo team?11:57
ajmitchwhy wouldn't it?11:57
pochujmg: #ubuntu-au, afaik11:57
jmgoh, i thought it was a localisation team.11:57
ajmitchlocal community team11:57
LaserJockwell, they need en_AU transtaltors too11:58
ajmitchlocalisation is just a part of what teams might do11:58
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