[12:21] <Laser_away> I wonder if this is right:
[12:21] <Laser_away> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd_computers?c=us&l=en&s=corp
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Laser_away: Wow, hadn't seen that before.
[12:24] <Fujitsu> I doubt it.
[12:24] <ajmitch> what's so unusual?
[12:25] <shawarma> He's running Feisty.
[12:25] <ajmitch> so?
[12:25] <ajmitch> isn't everyone?
[12:25] <shawarma> Not much, I guess. I just suppose that's the reason it was interesting?
[12:26] <shawarma> *G*
[12:26] <ajmitch> what worried me was automatix
[12:26] <shawarma> Oh, dear. I didn't notice.
[12:27] <shawarma> The window was just small enough not to show it.
[12:33] <jmg> does he really play games?
[12:33] <jmg> and run mce on his notebook?
[12:33] <jmg> note he doesnt run vista at all :)
[12:41] <ScottK> Lutin: About Bug #107584, the -0ubuntu4 update isn't published for i386.
[12:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 107584 in cinepaint "[apport]  whirlpinch.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107584
[12:42] <Lutin> ScottK: oh, really ?
[12:42] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+package/cinepaint
[12:42] <ScottK> Look at the published as versions
[12:43] <Lutin> oh, you're right. why is that N
[12:43] <Lutin> s/N/?
[12:43] <ScottK> The gimp-python dependeny is listed for the one arch that got ubuntu4, so it is "Fixed".
[12:44] <ScottK> It looks like not everything made it out to be published before the freeze.  Dunno what to do about that...
[12:44] <Lutin> I guess there's nothing to do but wait and poke mithrandir ^^
[12:45] <ScottK> Have at it.
[12:45] <ajmitch> I think you'll get the response of "we're *really* frozen"
[12:46] <ajmitch> some stuff was accepted & then backed out
[12:47] <ScottK> ajmitch: OK, so pick a version that was the last one published.  I don't think we can have it ubuntu3 for some and ubuntu4 for others, can we?
[12:47] <ScottK> Not urgent, but maybe stuff unthaws a little next week?
[12:47] <Lutin> ajmitch: that'd be weird, -4 got accepted for amd64
[12:47] <ajmitch> Lutin: amd64 buildd is fast :)
[12:47] <Lutin> lol
[12:48] <Lutin> all the others arch have been built the same day
[12:48] <ajmitch> so maybe the publisher was turned off while stuff was still building
[12:49] <Lutin> sigh
[12:50] <Lutin> ajmitch: do you know when the publisher's been turned off ? the packages have been built 2 days ago
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Publisher has likely been on manual for a number of days.
[12:52] <Fujitsu> It was for RC preparation, and that never really finished.
[12:53] <Laser_away> wahoo
[12:53] <Fujitsu> *fluoroesces
[12:54] <Fujitsu> *fluoresces
[12:54] <Fujitsu> I rarely have cause to spell that :P
[12:55] <Lutin> Fujitsu: ok :/
[12:55] <Fujitsu> I'd think you would be able to convince somebody to get it through at some point.
[12:58] <Lutin> Fujitsu: some point would be ? some time after feisty gets released ?
[12:59] <Fujitsu> Not sure. You'll have to ask Mithrandir.
[12:59] <Lutin> ok
[12:59] <Lutin> well, thanks for your help. good night guys :)
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Night Lutin.
[01:01] <ajmitch> hey Laser_away :)
[01:01] <ajmitch> Laser_away: we needs more 'behind motu' 
[01:01] <pochu> ajmitch wants to be famous too? :p
[01:01] <ajmitch> pochu: nah I
[01:02] <ajmitch> I'm not an active MOTU
[01:04] <Laser_away> well, I'm trying to be low noise
[01:04] <pochu> we want a LOT OF NOISE! :)
[01:04] <ajmitch> pfft
[01:04] <ajmitch> as if you could be
[01:48] <jmg> have we got any bugs submitted by mr dell?
[01:58] <Laser_away> jmg: what? Feisty has no bugs ;-)
[01:59] <jmg> Laser_away: can i quote you on that in 2 months time? :P
[01:59] <ajmitch> lunch time...
[01:59] <jmg> i concur with ajmitch
[02:44] <wondering> How big is the default Ubuntu command line only installation (*not* the command line installation housing CD - the alternate CD, but the installation itself - how much space does it take up?)
[02:44] <Burgwork> wondering: the server install, which is the barebones, is about 200mb, if I remember correctly
[02:44] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:44] <wondering> Burgwork: Would you happen to know how to install that from a non-Ubuntu or even a non-Debian based distribution?
[02:44] <Burgwork> nope
[02:44] <Burgwork> netinst isn't hard, however
[02:44] <wondering> Burgwork: I've got a LiveCD I'm working on that won't have any networking support and will install a minimal Ubuntu installation.
[02:44] <wondering> Burgwork: It isn't hard, but on a lab of 20+ machines, it lags.
[02:44] <Burgwork> why not use LTSP?
[02:45] <shawarma> I remember seeing a "debian takeover" script once. It moved the current OS out of the way and installed a Debian system instead.
[02:45] <shawarma> Allegedly it even worked on exotic systems like HP-UX..
[02:45] <wondering> Well, I'm not even sure how to go about doing it. I have a Gentoo based CD working already.
[02:46] <wondering> I just need to get it to install Ubuntu packages.
[02:47] <shawarma> Isn't dpkg in portage?
[02:48] <wondering> shawarma: What would I need to do to get it to work beyond that?
[02:49] <shawarma> wondering: Depends on what you exactly want to do. If you just want to install Ubuntu packages, you don't really need much else. If you want it to interact with Gentoo's dependency handling magic, I have no idea.
[02:50] <wondering> shawarma: No, I mean if the Ubuntu developers already dealt with all the interdependency junk (which I know you all spend a *long* time doing thankfully :D), it should just work with dpkg right?
[02:51] <shawarma> wondering: Off the top of my head, yes. 
[02:51] <shawarma> wondering: It *is* 3 AM here, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.
[02:52] <wondering> shawarma: Although, if I have it on the LiveCD, how do I tell dpkg to install to say /mnt/ubuntu/ or something?
[02:52] <plugwash> to build a new system you really need debootstrap
[02:53] <plugwash> you might want to check if gentoo has that availible too
[02:53] <wondering> plugwash: It does.
[02:53] <wondering> plugwash: I'll look more into debootstrap before I bother anyone any further.
[02:53] <wondering> Thanks a bunch everyone.
[02:53] <plugwash> you might have to modify its data files slightly to make it install ubunut instead of debian
[02:54] <plugwash> once you have debootstrapped you can then mount proc under the installation and then use chroot to run apt-get/aptitude inside the new installation
[02:55] <wondering> plugwash: Okay, I'll look into it further.
[02:56] <plugwash> why are you making a gentoo livecd that installs ubuntu anyway
[02:56] <plugwash> that seems a bit of a strange thing to do
[02:57] <wondering> plugwash: I like Gentoo, but I'm install Ubuntu (which I also like). I've also never made my own LiveCD before, so Gentoo makes it really easy (paradox?) to get a simple (haha, yeah right?) CD setup.
[02:58] <wondering> I'm installing*
[02:58] <RAOF> Isn't there the Reconstructor project, which is pretty much about making your own customised Ubuntu livecds?
[02:58] <wondering> Also, I already made the LiveCD base so far, so I'd hate myself if I didn't use this piece of crap now :\
[02:58] <grayman> heh
[03:03] <wondering> Yeah, I guess I'll look more into Reconstructor however much though I don't like it.
[03:06] <grayman> well
[03:07] <grayman> atleast you can be extensivly proud at yourself when your "piece of crap" will work
[03:24] <wondering> Hmm, I run sudo python /usr/share/reconstructor/reconstructor.py and it outputs this: ImportError: No module named Reconstructor.PackageHelper
[03:24] <wondering> How would I fix that? I can hack the code, but then that means that's a bug.
[03:25] <shawarma> Likely there's something in /usr/bin that you're supposed to call instead that will take care of setting a proper python path.
[03:26] <wondering> shawarma: Well, /usr/bin/env python is the real way to do it but the documentation says otherwise
[03:26] <wondering> shawarma: Either way, it still comes up with that same error.
[03:26] <wondering> If I run sudo /usr/share/reconstructor/reconstructor.py it still fails
[03:26] <micahcowan> Could somebody give me an example of a programming-language package that needs to bootstrap itself (that is, is written in... itself)? Like gcc, except I need something that's not in build-essential.
[03:27] <jmg> hmm
[03:27] <jmg> im thinking erlang
[03:27] <jmg> but it aint
[03:28] <micahcowan> Is one of the haskell implementations written in haskell, perhaps?
[03:28] <RAOF> Possibly mono-gmcs?  I'm pretty sure that's written in C#
[03:28] <wondering> Is that even possible?
[03:29] <jmg> wondering: most low level compilers bootstrap themselves
[03:29] <jmg> micahcowan: pypy? :)
[03:29] <RAOF> :)
[03:29] <micahcowan> jmg, omg, right: is that a package?
[03:29] <micahcowan> !info pypy
[03:29] <ubotu> Package pypy does not exist in edgy, edgy-backports, edgy-seveas
[03:30] <RAOF> pypy isn't actually released, is it?
[03:30] <micahcowan> Hm, good point.
[03:30] <jmg> its wnpp
[03:30] <micahcowan> wondering, it basically just means you have to install the software by hand first in order to produce the binaries... but obviously this is the case for gcc.
[03:31] <jmg> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326892
[03:31] <ubotu> Debian bug 326892 in wnpp "ITP: pypy -- python interpreter implemented in python" [Wishlist,Closed]  
[03:31] <wondering> micahcowan: Ah, I thought you all meant *real* bootstrapping.
[03:31] <wondering> I was thinking... binary at that point.
[03:31] <jmg> We are proud to release PyPy 1.0.0, our sixth public release (Download).
[03:31] <micahcowan> wondering, how is that not real bootstrapping?
[03:31] <RAOF> Oooh.  Awesome.
[03:32] <micahcowan> Awesomeness!
[03:32] <ajmitch> micahcowan: you're probably thinking of ghc
[03:32] <wondering> Hmm, the deb just sucks then. The .tar.gz works fine.
[03:32] <micahcowan> ajmitch, RAOF, thanks, I'll check that out.
[03:33] <micahcowan> That's a haskell implementation, yes?
[03:33] <ajmitch> yes
[03:33] <jmg> glasgow haskell compiler
[03:33] <micahcowan> tvm
[03:33] <micahcowan> Hi Laser
[03:33] <LaserJock> evening ajmitch 
[03:33] <LaserJock> hi micahcowan 
[03:34] <micahcowan> I'm one step closer to MOTU now :)
[03:34] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
[03:34] <jmg> micahcowan: get a room
[03:34] <micahcowan> Hey, I specifically avoided the term "fondle"... :)
[03:34] <Jucato> hi LaserJock :)
[03:35] <ScottK> micahcowan: Did you have to do anything to get the cloak set up?
[03:36] <wondering> ScottK: Oooh, I was peering at your /whois ... Verizon FIOS? Do you mind me asking where you live (as in city, state) ?
[03:36] <ScottK> Ellicott City, MD
[03:36] <ScottK> USA
[03:36] <micahcowan> ScottK, yes. (1) follow the instructions on the freenode FAQ for preparing for a cloak (you may have already done that: it's stuff like registering with nickserv, and associating an email); and (2)... bug Sev about it :)
[03:36] <wondering> Ah, that's cool.
[03:37] <ScottK> OK
[03:37] <ScottK> micahcowan: Thanks.
[03:37] <micahcowan> ScottK, how close to Baltimore is that? (My brother lives in Baltimore County).
[03:37] <ScottK> wondering: Where in MD?
[03:37] <ScottK> It's a suburb.
[03:37] <micahcowan> Cool. :)
[03:38] <ScottK> The closest Wal Mart is in Baltimore County.
[03:38] <LaserJock> hi Jucato, did you see my comment on your blog?
[03:38] <jmg> ScottK: awesome
[03:38] <Jucato> LaserJock: yes. thank you :)
[03:40] <wondering> wtf...
[03:41] <wondering> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-kde/+bug/64695 -> Why is this a KDE bug again?
[03:41] <ubotu> Malone bug 64695 in kdebase "KDE logout dialog is missing shutdown and restart options" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[03:41] <wondering> It *was* a GDM bug last I checked.
[03:41] <Jucato> it's a normal behavior if you used GDM to start KDE afaik
[03:42] <Jucato> (and I think the reveresed behavior is true when using KDM to start GNOME)
[03:42] <ajmitch> obviously the gdm maintainer thinks otherwise :)
[03:42] <wondering> Jucato: No, it worked in Edgy.
[03:43] <Jucato> ah hm.... so it's just GDM?
[03:44] <wondering> Yes.
[03:44] <wondering> It worked in Edgy. It doesn't in Feisty. Apparently it *won't* work in Feisty by release day (tomorrow) because it would involve a lot of work (Launchpad is probably pressing CDs as we speak)
[03:48] <wondering> plugwash: Well, shipit.ubuntu.com, etc. say they are giving out free CDs.
[03:48] <wondering> plugwash: I ordered my Feisty CDs about 2 weeks ago (even though they will *start* shipping tomorrow).
[04:25] <LaserJock> geeze, still checking out
[04:26] <ajmitch> hm
[04:27] <LaserJock> what am I getting myself into 
[04:27] <ajmitch> pain
[04:27] <ajmitch> lots & lots of pain
[04:27] <ScottK> But he clearly likes that.
[04:28] <LaserJock> heh
[04:28] <LaserJock> well, not that Feisty is done
[04:29] <LaserJock> Gutsy's going to take some work for TeX
[04:29] <LaserJock> we should replace tetex with texlive 2007
[04:29] <ScottK> So the real question is are you going to leave hobbsee out of the Golden Pony awards again?
[04:29] <ScottK> That'll tell us how much you like pain.
[04:29] <ajmitch> of course he won't
[04:29] <ajmitch> golden ponies will be interesting this time...
[04:32] <ajmitch> so when can I install gutsy?
[04:32] <jmg> OMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:32] <ajmitch> jmg: yeah calm down
[04:32] <jmg> ajmitch: but but but
[04:33] <jmg> PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneoen
[04:33] <ajmitch> those poor people on the forums who thought that feisty would be released *exactly* at midnight GMT
[04:33] <ajmitch> partly due to the fridge, of course
[04:34] <ajmitch> "cricky! I've been waiting 11 minutes, I can't take it anymore, no, refresh did nothing, still not there, thats 12 minutes now?"
[04:35] <LaserJock> well, I should jump on the forums and say I'm running it right now ;-)
[04:35] <ajmitch> sure
[04:36] <ajmitch> "Im sad :( Why cant the ubuntu team just be on time :("
[04:36] <jmg> ajmitch: euthanise that member immediately
[04:37] <ajmitch> most of them are probably already running feisty & have nothing to upgrade to anyway
[04:37] <jmg> executive authorisation ohMai8ah
[04:39] <ajmitch> don't worry, people waiting for feisty are already asking how to upgrade to gutsy
[04:40] <jmg> aww they didnt use my name for feisty +1
[04:40] <jmg> :(
[04:40] <ajmitch> of course not
[04:41] <LaserJock> still checking out
[04:41] <LaserJock> ...
[04:41] <ajmitch> still rsyncing i386...
[04:43] <bluefoxicy> although I'm bored and hoping someone opens their mouth demanding Ubuntu-i686 again some time so I can debate with them
[04:48] <plugwash> bluefoxicy because thats how the 32 bit intel architecture has always been know 
[04:49] <plugwash> just as the 64 bit architecture is known as amd64 despite the fact intel probablly sells more chips that run it than amd nowadays
[04:50] <ajmitch> hah
[04:50] <ajmitch> "Is there anyone we can just call and ask when it will be out? Maybe someone has Mark Shuttleworth's home number?"
[04:50] <jdong> ajmitch: don't tell me that came from the forums :)
[04:50] <LaserJock> it did
[04:50] <ajmitch> jdong: damn right it did
[04:51] <jdong> lol
[04:51] <jdong> lovely.
[04:51] <ScottK> Good night everyone.
[04:51] <LaserJock> it's like they think Mark's sitting there with the .isos just teasing people
[04:52] <jmg> the unwashed masses
[04:52] <LaserJock> waiting for some magic hour
[04:52] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's not far from the truth
[04:56] <ajmitch> except that the teasing is generally what we call 'testing'
[04:56] <LaserJock> exactly
[04:56] <ajmitch> and making sure that there are no last minute regressions
[04:56] <ajmitch> night ScottK 
[04:56] <LaserJock> ajmitch: my goodness, my checkout is up to 1.4GB
[04:56] <ajmitch> that's small
[05:04] <LaserJock> well darn, I was hoping they used CDBS ;-)
[05:05] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
[05:06] <LaserJock> 1.8GB
[05:06] <LaserJock> no wonder nobody wants to touch this stuff
[05:06] <joejaxx> LaserJock: you are welcome btw (ref: planet)
[05:06] <joejaxx> :)
[05:06] <LaserJock> joejaxx: :-)
[05:07] <joejaxx> soon it will be time to start the GG  stats when the repos opens
[05:08] <LaserJock> should be easy :-)
[05:08] <bddebian> GG stats?
[05:08] <ajmitch> yeah, it may take me a few months
[05:08] <joejaxx> bddebian: yeah
[05:09] <joejaxx> bddebian: the current ones are for feisty
[05:09] <bddebian> WTF is a GG stat?
[05:09] <joejaxx> gusty gibbon
[05:09] <joejaxx> what about FTW ?
[05:09] <joejaxx> :)
[05:09] <joejaxx> lool
[05:10] <jmg> gloomy goldfish
[05:10] <jmg> !!!!!!!!!
[05:10] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i should probably keep the stats for past releases too
[05:10] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:10] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i could generate them for pre feisty as well
[05:10] <LaserJock> can you keep an archive of the full results?
[05:10] <LaserJock> not just top 10
[05:11] <joejaxx> yeah
[05:11] <LaserJock> we'd actually like keep track of active MOTUs
[05:11] <joejaxx> oh ok i can do that
[05:11] <LaserJock> that's one indication
[05:11] <LaserJock> the packages one is interesting too
[05:11] <joejaxx> that is what i found most interesting
[05:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'd fall so far off the bottom it'd hurt
[05:13] <LaserJock> ajmitch: me too :(
[05:13] <LaserJock> but we still need the info
[05:14] <bddebian> stats on what??
[05:14] <LaserJock> yep, that's why I said it was one indication
[05:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: # of uploads
[05:14] <joejaxx> bddebian: ubuntu.joejaxx.org
[05:15] <ajmitch> LaserJock: once gutsy opens I should be able to get some new stuff in
[05:15] <joejaxx> if there are anything else that you all want stats generated for just tell :)
[05:15] <bddebian> Hey no fair counting the main guys ;-P
[05:15] <joejaxx> lol
[05:16] <ajmitch> bddebian: who counts as a 'main guy'?
[05:16] <jmg> someone who works on main?
[05:16] <ajmitch> we have people who work on both
[05:16] <LaserJock> I think what bddebian meant was people who are paid to upload
[05:17] <bddebian> IT WAS A JOKE for cripes sake
[05:17] <joejaxx> :P
[05:17] <LaserJock> what? </sarcasm>
[05:17] <ajmitch> LaserJock: aren't you paid?
[05:19] <crimsun> what about people who are paid not to upload? O:-)
[05:19] <joejaxx> crimsun: grep -v ? :P
[05:21] <ajmitch> crimsun: I could do that job!
[05:22] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I got paid once
[05:23] <LaserJock> and not even enough to pay for my passport to Paris
[05:24] <crimsun> lj: aren't you off to Sevilla for UDS?
[05:24] <LaserJock> yeah, UES and part of UDS
[05:25] <LaserJock> then I get less than 24hrs before flying to my parents to be a groomsman in my little brothers wedding
[05:26] <ajmitch> LaserJock, international jetsetter
[05:26] <LaserJock> pffft
[05:26] <ajmitch> poor fellow complaining about getting a free trip to spain
[05:26] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:26] <LaserJock> well, I'm pretty sure it's the last
[05:26] <ajmitch> you've said that before  :)
[05:27] <ajmitch> and have you managed to escape the clutches of ubuntu yet?
[05:27] <LaserJock> sure ...
[05:27] <ajmitch> that sounded convicning
[05:28] <crimsun> what's the commitment length for Edubuntu Council members? ;)
[05:28] <LaserJock> 1hr I think
[05:28] <LaserJock> well, technically 2 releases
[05:28] <joejaxx> LaserJock: the jetlag will be quite inconvenient :\
[05:29] <LaserJock> I imagine
[05:29] <LaserJock> when I got home from paris I was sick for 2 weeks
[05:29] <joejaxx> man that stinks :\
[05:30] <crimsun> well, regardless, you guys & gals have fun in Sevilla
[05:30] <crimsun> thanks for all the great work in Ubuntu {main,restricted,universe,multiverse} thus far!
[05:31] <ajmitch> crimsun: you ought to be there
[05:41] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, thanks for being here
[05:41] <LaserJock> really, I don't think MOTU would be anything like it is without your efforts
[05:42] <jmg> crimsun will be there... in absentia
[05:42] <ajmitch> no, we'd be in far worse shape
[05:42] <ajmitch> jmg: it's only a small trip from NZ..
[05:43] <jmg> ajmitch: a small acid trip
[05:43] <ajmitch> jetlag usually isn't that bad
[05:57] <LaserJock> 3.5GB
[05:57] <joejaxx> what is that big?
[05:57] <LaserJock> debian-tex svn
[05:57] <bddebian> Egads
[05:57] <LaserJock> I'm trying to do a checkout
[05:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you'll be busy
[05:57] <joejaxx> ah
[05:57] <ajmitch> aren't you glad that svn doesn't have the whole history in a checkout?
[05:58] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:58] <LaserJock> I was wondering how that would work if I did a bzr branch :-)
[05:58] <ajmitch> painful slow
[05:58] <joejaxx> yeah
[05:58] <ajmitch> it's bad enough doing bzr branch of f-spot svn
[06:10] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:11] <LaserJock> I wonder if an archive mirror or debian-tex is bigger? :-)
[06:23] <minghua> LaserJock: does that mean debian-svn have the upstream tarballs?
[06:28] <LaserJock> minghua: not tarballs
[06:28] <LaserJock> I think it's just the source
[06:30] <minghua> oh, that's worse than tarballs (disk-space-wise)
[06:33] <nixternal> LaserJock#@!!!#@ what's up buddy
[06:37] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah
[06:37] <LaserJock> hi nixternal 
[06:40] <LaserJock> hehe, I  posted on the 44 page "Is it there yet?" thread
[06:40] <nixternal> link me
[06:41] <LaserJock> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2478869&postcount=428
[06:41] <LaserJock> I did it 5 minutes ago and there's already another page
[06:42] <nixternal> OMG
[06:43] <nixternal> there are 2 more pages
[06:43] <nixternal> I should do a "We are holding back from releasing it in the next few hours due to legal threats from Microsoft. Our lawyers on it at this time, please bare with us as we work through this."
[06:43] <nixternal> hahahahahahaha
[06:44] <gouki> hehehe
[06:44] <nixternal> LaserJock: dude you are getting flamed every other second now on the forums
[06:44] <bddebian> Uh oh what'd you do now? :-)
[06:45] <nixternal> slashdot doesn't have a thing on our forums
[06:45] <nixternal> my god they can respond
[06:51] <LaserJock> nixternal: flamed?? that isn't anything
[06:51] <nixternal> don't worry, I have been receiving hate mail from one of the Tux500 guys, so don't feel bad
[06:51] <LaserJock> man, they've got automatic refresh programs going on
[06:51] <jmg> nixternal: tux500?
[06:51] <nixternal> ya, them fools that think that having Linux plastered on an Indy car is the best marketing ever
[06:51] <jmg> ...
[06:51] <nixternal> they want $350,000 USD within the next month
[06:51] <jmg> does the car run linux?
[06:51] <gouki> nixternal, really? Why on earth would they do that!?
[06:51] <Jucato> wtf? 45 pages in under 2 hours... for that topic?!?!
[06:51] <gouki> The hate mail, I mean.
[06:51] <nixternal> gouki: retardation?
[06:51] <nixternal> gouki: see above response as well :)
[06:51] <gouki> Sounds about right :)
[06:51] <nixternal> retardation works in both cases 1) why they would do the indy thing and 2) the hate mail
[06:51] <nixternal> Jucato: you know you want to post
[06:51] <Jucato> hell no. thank goodness I'm too sane right now to add to that thread :)
[06:52] <jmg> they have the audacity to put LINUX POWERED on the side
[06:52] <Jucato> oh 46 pages now...
[06:53] <bddebian> "Screw you guys, I'm going to Gentoo".. ;-P
[06:53] <Jucato> bddebian: ... and get yourself screwed as well? :P
[06:53] <Jucato> (no offense meant to Gentoo-ers)
[06:53] <bddebian> That was a joke son.. :-)
[06:54] <Jucato> mine was too, "dad" :D
[06:54] <bddebian> heh
[06:54] <nixternal> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2478992&postcount=459
[06:54] <nixternal> hahahahahah
[06:54] <nixternal> Gentoo is weak, Slackware my child
[06:55] <bddebian> LFS you sissy
[06:55] <nixternal> I went back to Debian until I realised they had KDE 3.5.5 ;)
[06:55] <jmg> yggdrasil
[06:55] <nixternal> bddebian: we just finished an LFS build farm at our LUG
[06:55] <nixternal> 50% of the guys crashed and burned
[06:55] <bddebian> heh
[06:55] <nixternal> my first 2 boxes did as well, but that is what I get for messing with 64bit stuff
[06:56] <jmg> sheer masochism
[06:56] <bddebian> Wow, I guess if I got on the forums, I'd be cool too?
[06:56] <Jucato> bddebian: no. you'd be nixternal-ish :D
[07:02] <nixternal> my god, 2 more pages after my post
[07:02] <nixternal> Jucato: you think you are funny huh ;p
[07:02] <Jucato> nixternal: definitely :)
[07:02] <nixternal> haha, good answer
[07:03] <bddebian> Well bed time for this old man, gnight folks
[07:03] <ajmitch> nixternal: the "Release in 2 hours!" thread?
[07:03] <nixternal> haha ya
[07:03] <ajmitch> yeah it's painful
[07:04] <joejaxx> wow that is a shame 
[07:04] <joejaxx> ~45 pages
[07:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you were brave to post on the forums
[07:06] <ajmitch> I at least have the cover of anonymity
[07:06] <LaserJock> with a dev tag and everything ;-)
[07:06] <ScottK> I could neither sleep nor help myself when it came to posting. http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2479056&postcount=475
[07:06] <ScottK> Go nixternal
[07:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: exactly, I'm just a nobody on the forums & can post what I want ;)
[07:07] <jmg> almost
[07:07] <nixternal> tag your it
[07:07] <nixternal> Jucato: what do you mean tag?
[07:07] <jmg> dist-upgrading is never the same as a fresh install, unfort.
[07:07] <joejaxx> LaserJock: <quote> @laserjock - think of it as a valuable bonding time for ubuntu users everywhere. </quote>
[07:07] <joejaxx> lol
[07:07] <Jucato> nixternal: announce to everyone on that thread that you're a dev and they will start to annoy you with questions :)
[07:07] <ScottK> Yeah. Dist-upgrading usually works better.
[07:08] <nixternal> Jucato: I dare you to
[07:08] <joejaxx> ScottK: :P
[07:08] <nixternal> oh lord, when you respond to a forums post you get emailed for every response there after
[07:08] <ajmitch> hah
[07:08] <ScottK> Heh, nixternal: You
[07:08] <Jucato> nixternal: you can turn it off iirc
[07:08] <ajmitch> that's a good incentive not to post
[07:08] <ScottK> urgh can
[07:08] <ajmitch> ever
[07:08] <ScottK> can't type
[07:09] <Jucato> nixternal: User CP -> Edit Options -> Message & Notification
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:09] <ScottK> nixternal: You're a dev.  I've got Dapper installed on my desktop and I used automatix to make it really cool.  Can I upgrade straight to Feisty and where do I find the new version of automatix for Feisty???? kthxbye
[07:10] <nixternal> ScottK: sure, first thing first, poor water directly to the drive where automatix was installed
[07:10] <nixternal> while the system is running
[07:10] <Flannel> ScottK: no.  You need to upgrade through edgy.  And actually, your Edgy upgrade is likely not to work, because of automatix.  And dont use automatix in feisty, since then you'll have the same issue upgrading to gutsy
[07:11] <ScottK> Flannel: I'm kidding.  I know.
[07:11] <Flannel> Oh.  Sorry.  Thought I was in #ubuntu.  w and 2 are close to each other ;)
[07:11] <ScottK> I actually do have a dapper box that I used automatix on before I knew better.  I'll reinstall that one from scratch when I get some time.
[07:12] <ScottK> nixternal: If I'm cross-grading from opensuse 10.1, should I do the same?
[07:13] <nixternal> actually wrong, you have downgrade to breezy first, then upgrade back to dapper, you can try to upgrade to edgy at that point, but if it doesn't work, go back to warty, then add feisty to your sources and dist-upgrade, when it crashes out, insert a windows 95 cd and enjoy!
[07:13] <ScottK> Cool.  I still have a couple of those.
[07:14] <nixternal> heh
[07:16] <LaserJock> almost to 50 pages
[07:16] <nixternal> they seriously think it is going to be out in 2 hours or less?
[07:17] <LaserJock> well, that was like 5-7 hrs ago
[07:17] <nixternal> does it say at 07:00 UTC it will be release anywhere?
[07:17] <nixternal> and do people actually wait for the release to upgrade?
[07:17] <nixternal> silly them
[07:17] <jmg> awww
[07:17] <jmg> The Ubuntu community would like to thank you for your contributions to the Ubuntu project. In recognition of this, we offer you an expanded set of options for your ShipIt request.
[07:17] <joejaxx> well it says tomorrow on the website
[07:17] <jmg> thanks guys <3
[07:17] <ajmitch> contributions?
[07:17] <joejaxx> expanded set?
[07:18] <nixternal> expanded set of options? like "sorry you have been denied?"
[07:18] <nixternal> they denied Ubuntu Chicago shipits
[07:18] <ajmitch> nixternal: no, you get a signed photo of sabdfl
[07:18] <joejaxx> what emcompasses an expanded set?
[07:18] <nixternal> thank god for those Fedora CDs that Tom "Spot" Callaway provided as a mean joke to me
[07:18] <jmg> i have options for 3 and 10 cd packs
[07:18] <joejaxx> jmg: ah nice :)
[07:18] <ajmitch> jmg: stunning
[07:18] <jmg> ajmitch: confusing
[07:18] <nixternal> ajmitch: already got one :)
[07:18] <ajmitch> I think the smallest you could request for warty was 10
[07:19] <ScottK> The experts have spoken in response to my suggestion to dist-upgrade: "Why would that be any newer than what is already available for download? IMHO, I don't think they would release it to the repositories until its also available for download.'
[07:19] <jmg> since after the great re-launchpadding, i have 0 karma
[07:19] <ajmitch> nixternal: sad, sad fanboy
[07:19] <nixternal> lol
[07:19] <nixternal> we sent Mark and Ubuntu Chicago poster we made up last year
[07:20] <ajmitch> "zomg mark i wants to have your children!"
[07:20] <nixternal> I can't find the pic now. probably got destroyed with some development bug like the rest of my 4gb of photos I didn't back up ;)
[07:20] <nixternal> ajmitch: laugh, at school today while chatting with mark, this girl seen my ubuntu shirt and screamed "shuttleworth rocks!"
[07:20] <nixternal> Mark's repsonse was classic
[07:20] <joejaxx> i thought shipit was only free for dapper lts
[07:20] <ajmitch> oh dear
[07:21] <ajmitch> joejaxx: that was for edgy
[07:21] <joejaxx> ajmitch: ah
[07:21] <joejaxx> ajmitch: what changed?
[07:21] <nixternal> release cycle
[07:21] <jmg> nixternal: a joke with no punchline is no joke at all
[07:21] <nixternal> well nobody sounded interested, so I am holding the punchline
[07:21] <jmg> nixternal: was the girl hot?
[07:21] <nixternal> nope
[07:21] <nixternal> lol
[07:22] <Jucato> so what was mark's response?
[07:22] <jmg> nixternal: well, you could have taken a penalty shot
[07:22] <nixternal> I am not telling you now, I am mad
[07:22] <nixternal> hahaha
[07:22] <ajmitch> they decided to ship feisty cds
[07:22] <nixternal> if you are in the bazaar channel you would see his answer
[07:22] <ajmitch> 09:36 < sabdfl> art history major
[07:22] <ajmitch> 09:36 < sabdfl> definitely
[07:22] <ajmitch> haha
[07:22] <ajmitch> classic
[07:22] <jmg> hahah
[07:23] <ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
[07:23] <jmg> n1
[07:23] <Jucato> :)
[07:23] <Jucato> ok now that's over...
[07:23] <nixternal> ###SPAM ALERT###
[07:23] <nixternal> 16:36:27 [    sabdfl]  WHICH UNIVERSITY?
[07:23] <nixternal> 16:36:37 [ nixternal]  College of Dummies (err DuPage) in Chicago
[07:23] <nixternal> 16:36:43 [    sabdfl]  i'm in
[07:23] <nixternal> 16:36:45 [ nixternal]  hahaha
[07:23] <ajmitch> nixternal: I lurk there too
[07:23] <nixternal> 16:36:47 [    sabdfl]  art history major
[07:23] <nixternal> 16:36:50 [    sabdfl]  definitely
[07:23] <nixternal> damn you ajmitch!
[07:23] <nixternal> haha
[07:23] <joejaxx> LOL
[07:23] <Jucato> roflmao
[07:24] <nixternal> ya, I made the school paper this week and pissed off the school board
[07:24] <nixternal> I love when I do that
[07:25] <LaserJock> nixternal is just trouble
[07:25] <nixternal> that I am
[07:25] <ajmitch> what did you do this time?
[07:25] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
[07:25] <LaserJock> I talked to a prof today about Ubuntu
[07:25] <LaserJock> he's got a laptop running Fedora
[07:25] <LaserJock> he said "What do you run?"
[07:25] <LaserJock> big mistake on his part ;-)
[07:25] <ajmitch> oh dear
[07:26] <ajmitch> how long before he crawled away as a  broken man?
[07:26] <LaserJock> 'course I didn't show him the OS X machine I was presently on ;-)
[07:26] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
[07:26] <joejaxx> lol
[07:26] <LaserJock> actually I did, because I was showing him how awesome Python was at the same time ;-)
[07:26] <LaserJock> so I got in Ubuntu and Python
[07:27] <LaserJock> he said he might check it out
[07:27] <jmg> LaserJock: did you quickly desktop switch to your ubuntu vm?
[07:27] <LaserJock> no
[07:27] <LaserJock> I have a Feisty machine on the desk next to the iMac
[07:27] <nixternal> http://tinyurl.com/386etg
[07:27] <nixternal> read the section on the first page "Better classes will market college"
[07:28] <jmg> er shipit
[07:28] <joejaxx> jmg: i just looked
[07:28] <nixternal> then tonight at the board meeting I got on them again for screwing over IT for the fall, and I told them they are not only killing a students education but also their creativity by forcing them to use proprietary software
[07:28] <joejaxx> jmg: i think maybe you cannot request all those different methods
[07:29] <jmg> joejaxx: i cant?
[07:29] <jmg> :(
[07:29] <joejaxx> jmg: no
[07:29] <joejaxx> as in if you did not have extended options
[07:29] <jmg> ah
[07:29] <joejaxx> that is what i am thinking
[07:29] <jmg> nixternal: i dont see "better classes will market college"
[07:30] <nixternal> it isn't a PDF?
[07:30] <joejaxx> is it under editorials?
[07:30] <nixternal> yes
[07:30] <jmg> oh the newspaper
[07:30] <nixternal> you know why it did that, over 127 chars in the url I think
[07:31] <nixternal> my appologies
[07:31] <jmg> what page?
[07:32] <nixternal> http://www.cod.edu/courier/4.13.07/EDITORIALfinal_04.13.07.pdf
[07:32] <nixternal> there is the PDF, first page
[07:32] <jmg> cant view the first page
[07:32] <jmg> only second and subsequent
[07:32] <jmg> ah
[07:32] <nixternal> that is lovely
[07:32] <jmg> direct link worked
[07:33] <jmg> heh
[07:35] <ScottK> Good for you nixternal.  Tell them like it is.
[07:35] <jmg> right, time to go home
[07:35] <nixternal> I have the professors and the students behind and the board against
[07:35] <jmg> bye all
[07:35] <ScottK> bye
[07:35] <nixternal> the student president started to speak while I was, and another student told her to set down and let me finish
[07:36] <nixternal> good stuff...Chicago is so corrupt at everything
[07:36] <nixternal> even education, it is so sad
[07:37] <nixternal> ScottK: how old are you?
[07:37] <ScottK> 44
[07:37] <LaserJock> nixternal: geeze, read Behind MOTU ;-)
[07:37] <joejaxx> :)
[07:37] <nixternal> ahh, you got me by 11 ;)
[07:37] <ScottK> Ancient in Ubuntu terms
[07:37] <joejaxx> :P
[07:37] <nixternal> wth is Behind MOTU?
[07:38] <joejaxx> LOl
[07:38] <nixternal> besides LaserJock's back pocket
[07:38] <joejaxx> nixternal: there is a new one on planet as we speak :P
[07:38] <nixternal> I don't have time to read
[07:38] <LaserJock> nixternal: behindmotu.wordpress.com
[07:38] <nixternal> I have been creating graphics and release notes all day long, and then trying to get an education
[07:38] <LaserJock> nixternal: you're so busy causing trouble on campus you don't have time for us mere mortals ;-)

[07:39] <joejaxx> lol :P
[07:39] <nixternal> haha, he lives in Ellicott City
[07:39] <nixternal> I used to live in Georgetown, but mostly in St. Mary's County
[07:39] <joejaxx> LaserJock: how is mutt working out for you?
[07:39] <nixternal> stationed at Patuxent River for the last 2 years of active duty
[07:39] <ScottK> nixternal: I used to live in Bowie which would be even funnier
[07:39] <LaserJock> joejaxx: very well
[07:39] <nixternal> eww, Bowie
[07:40] <nixternal> my cousin just moved there
[07:40] <nixternal> I just left Maryland a couple of weeks ago
[07:40] <LaserJock> joejaxx: yes, mutt+irssi+screen is working very well for me
[07:41] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i think i will try it i have been using webclients 
[07:41] <nixternal> I am going to move back for a little bit next year to be next to my daughter, and then it is either to Europe somewhere or Mexico on some secluded beach
[07:41] <joejaxx> LaserJock: nice i think i will set that up now :)
[07:41] <nixternal> I can't go back to Mutt. I tried so hard but it wouldn't work
[07:41] <LaserJock> well, I've got it set up so that I can do mutt or TB or Mail.app
[07:41] <LaserJock> it works rather nicely
[07:42] <LaserJock> wahoo, up to 6.5GB
[07:43] <LaserJock> minghua: ping
[07:45] <minghua> LaserJock: yes?
[07:48] <LaserJock> minghua: what do you think about a ubuntu-tex team?
[07:49] <ajmitch> sounds too much like texas
[07:49] <minghua> LaserJock: if we can find enough people/time, then I'm all for it
[07:49] <LaserJock> heh
[07:51] <ajmitch> AWTY?!?
[07:51] <ajmitch> why isnt it out yet?!?

[07:55] <joejaxx> lol that is funny
[07:56] <ajmitch> lots of people demanding that next time there be an *exact* time it'll be released
[07:58] <LaserJock> mhm
[07:58] <LaserJock> they really feel that the devs are all sitting around drinking a beer waiting for the exact hour
[07:58] <LaserJock> "not yet ..."
[07:58] <LaserJock> "not yet ..."
[07:59] <LaserJock> "ok now'
[08:00] <ajmitch> you mean they're all sitting round feverishly writing up specs
[08:04] <tonyyarusso> ajmitch: Translates as "it was ready three days ago, but we waited until "the time", happy now?"
[08:04] <nixternal> FEISTY IS OUT!!
[08:04] <Flannel> OMG!!!!!
[08:04] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:04] <nixternal> I want to do it in a channel so bad
[08:05] <ajmitch> I don't care, current cd images are good enough
[08:05] <LaserJock>  #ubuntu :-)
[08:05] <nixternal> I have been using Feisty since July
[08:05] <nixternal> hehe
[08:05] <nixternal> err, October
[08:05] <nixternal> wth
[08:05] <nixternal> I got the dummies in ubuntu-chicago with the feisty is out
[08:06] <nixternal> they are scrambling for links, and 90% of the e.tards already run it
[08:06] <tonyyarusso> You're cruel.
[08:06] <nixternal> yes, yes I am
[08:06] <nixternal> d'oh, I have a feisty one challenging me now in there ;)
[08:07] <nixternal> 01:06:33 [ nixternal]  says me, I am the release coordinator for Ubuntu
[08:07] <nixternal> 
[08:07] <nixternal> 01:06:52 [     makkk]  wow, nice
[08:07] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:07] <nixternal> he was a pushover
[08:07] <nixternal> nice break line there irssi
[08:07] <ajmitch> stupid
[08:07] <LaserJock> my gosh
[08:07] <LaserJock> what a cruel man
[08:07] <ajmitch> I didn't realise you'd  been suddenly promoted
[08:07] <nixternal> he is looking for the links
[08:07] <nixternal> ajmitch: me either
[08:08] <nixternal> is there even a such thing?
[08:08] <ajmitch> of course there is
[08:08] <nixternal> that is the first thing that I could think of for someone who would know
[08:08] <nixternal> haha LaserJock 
[08:08] <ajmitch> he's the one who'll hit the release button
[08:08] <joejaxx> Lol
[08:08] <tonyyarusso> who is it for real?
[08:09] <ajmitch> mithrandir
[08:09] <jussi01> LaserJock, did you get a chance to look over the package i uploaded?
[08:09] <joejaxx> Mithrandsomething
[08:09] <tonyyarusso> righto
[08:09] <ajmitch> hence why I told you to give him ops :)
[08:09] <tonyyarusso> Good call
[08:10] <ajmitch> he suggested it
[08:10] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+members
[08:11] <ajmitch> I think tollef is handling the release details though
[08:12] <LaserJock> yeah, just saying it's gotta be tollef or colin
[08:13] <joejaxx> you know what i never thought about doing?
[08:13] <ajmitch> so many fanboys...
[08:13] <joejaxx> setting up local webemail
[08:13] <ajmitch> joejaxx: getting sabdfl's autograph?
[08:13] <joejaxx> a webemail client that is
[08:13] <joejaxx> ajmitch: hmm? lol
[08:14] <ajmitch> I know you're a fanboy
[08:14] <LaserJock> I think I'm going to get banned from #ubuntu-chicago :-)
[08:14] <joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
[08:14] <ajmitch> LaserJock: stirring up trouble?
[08:14] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:15] <ajmitch> big surprise there
[08:15] <LaserJock> I popped in there a couple times, give a line harrasing nixternal, and leave
[08:15] <LaserJock> just to make it interesting ;-)
[08:15] <joejaxx> hahaha
[08:15] <ajmitch> haha
[08:15] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:15] <joejaxx> that is funny
[08:15] <joejaxx> lol
[08:15] <nixternal> he said I am the real Mark Shuttleworth or something
[08:15] <nixternal> they are like "nixternal is paying him"
[08:15] <ivoks> :)
[08:55] <superm1> hey guys any ideas of where a list of who is hosting what sessions @ ubuntu live is?  Just saw this: http://www.ubuntulive.com/cs/ubuntu/view/e_sess/13454, and was wondering who was running this thing
[09:00] <\sh> moins
[09:00] <joejaxx> good morning
[09:00] <joejaxx> \sh: how did that rollout go?
[09:09] <imbrandon> wtf, ok i have two boxes, both with the same sources.list ( edgt, default , with multiverse and universe )
[09:09] <imbrandon> and one cant find wine the other cane
[09:09] <imbrandon> in universe
[09:09] <imbrandon> ideas?
[09:10] <ScottK> Both pointing at the same mirror?
[09:10] <imbrandon> yea
[09:10] <Flannel> imbrandon: did you update the package cache?
[09:10] <imbrandon> as in apt-get update ? , yes
[09:10] <imbrandon> nevermind i just figured it out
[09:12] <highvoltage> I'm stuck with a problem with dpkg-divert, hope someone in mOTU can help me out...
[09:12] <\sh> joejaxx: my servers? finished and already in production :)
[09:12] <joejaxx> \sh: nice :)
[09:12] <highvoltage> I get the following message when trying to remove a divert:
[09:12] <highvoltage> I get the following message when trying to remove a divert:Removing `diversion of /etc/dot.bashrc to /etc/dot.bashrc.orig by base-files-update'
[09:12] <highvoltage> dpkg-divert: rename involves overwriting `/etc/dot.bashrc' with different file `/etc/dot.bashrc.orig', not allowed
[09:12] <BugMaN> hi \sh! ;-)
[09:13] <highvoltage> the above happens in the postrm of the package
[09:19] <ScottK> imbrandon: What was it?
[09:22] <jack_deltrino> If I make changes to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf without having cupsys installed and I then ran apt-get install cupsys, would it overwrite files? If it prompted me is there a way to default to it using the configuration file I wrote? Also, is there a way to accept installations of all packages but deny all configuration file overrides?
[09:23] <ScottK> By default the package management system will not touch config files you've changed.
[09:24] <ScottK> If it does, it's a bug.
[09:24] <jack_deltrino> Perfect.
[09:24] <ScottK> If there's an issue, it should ask you.
[09:24] <jack_deltrino> Right, that's what I was asking, is there a way to force it to one default behavior regardless?
[09:25] <ScottK> There are ways to force the package management system to do stuff.  Normally it's not a good idea.
[09:25] <jack_deltrino> ScottK: Why is that?
[09:26] <ScottK> Because if it asks you a question, it's a good idea to actually answer it rather than force one answer or another.
[09:26] <jack_deltrino> ScottK: I know exactly what I want replicated and so that's what I want replicated. I don't want the package management system to tell me that I need to wipe all my configuration options off. I would normally agree with you, but this particular situation is one in which I have total control over the system and I know exactly what I want to do.
[09:26] <jack_deltrino> what I want it to do*
[09:26] <ScottK> There may be a system change that requires a new setting in the new version.  If you blindly keep the old, you could be in trouble.
[09:27] <ScottK> OK. man apt-get should tell you what you need to know then
[09:27] <jack_deltrino> Well, I know there's a -y option, but I want to make sure it does it the way I explained. I'll double check it before bothering you though.
[09:28] <LoneWolfSM>  /msg nickserv link smm wyggle
[09:28] <ScottK> LoneWolfSM: You'll want to pick a different password now.
[09:28] <LoneWolfSM> thanks :)
[09:28] <LoneWolfSM> how?
[09:29] <ScottK> LoneWolfSM: Try that on the freenode tab
[09:29] <LoneWolfSM> <-- sort of noob
[09:29] <ScottK> Look in the freenode FAQ.
[09:29] <ScottK> really
[09:29] <jack_deltrino> Heh.
[09:30] <jack_deltrino> By the way, I don't think apt-get does that.
[09:30] <jack_deltrino> It only does yes or no. Not both in two separate ways as I specified.
[09:59] <\sh> jack_deltrino: what do you want exactly
[10:00] <jack_deltrino> \sh: I'll repeat it, tell me if anything is unclear specifically.
[10:00] <jack_deltrino> If I make changes to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf without having cupsys installed and I then ran apt-get install cupsys, would it overwrite files? If it prompted me is there a way to default to it using the configuration file I wrote? Also, is there a way to accept installations of all packages but deny all configuration file overrides?
[10:01] <\sh> jack_deltrino: man apt.conf ; There is an "Assume-Yes" option which can be "true" or "false". False means normally, don't override configs you've changed by package default config
[10:01] <Jucato> um just a quick question. what happened to nvu in feisty?
[10:02] <jack_deltrino> \sh: That's not all I wasn't asking though. I want it to assume *yes* for all package installations, but *no* for configuration file updates.
[10:02] <jack_deltrino> \sh: It's twofold and so far everyone has been telling me to look into the equivalent of -y or --assume-yes.
[10:04] <\sh> jack_deltrino: because that is what you want...installing the binaries of a package has nothing to do with the configuration...assume yes is always for configuration files.
[10:04] <\sh> jack_deltrino: please do a man apt-get and man apt.conf
[10:04] <jack_deltrino> So both -y and Assume-Yes=false does it?
[10:05] <\sh> -y means overwrite all configs with the package defaults, Assume-Yes=false means don't overwrite the configs you've touched with the default package configuration files
[10:07] <jack_deltrino> ... That's *not* what I've been asking
[10:07] <jack_deltrino> I need both yes for package installations and no for configuration files.
[10:39] <geser> Jucato: nvu was removed because it is unmaintained upstream, kompozer is the successor of nvu (but not yet in Ubuntu)
[10:48] <Jucato> geser: oh thanks (sorry, was afk)
[10:49] <crimsun> happy release day, folks. (off to catch a flight)
[10:53] <\sh> hmmm.songbird is not in ubuntu? 
[12:23] <\sh> ajmitch: first wave updated
[12:23] <ajmitch> heh
[12:24] <ajmitch> I can't be bothered with this release mess & hype
[12:24] <ajmitch> I feel like going off to sleep :)
[12:25] <\sh> hehe
[12:25] <\sh> it's just a release, that's all ,-)
[12:26] <ajmitch> yeah
[12:26] <ajmitch> it just means no updates on my box for a few days
[12:32] <\sh> ajmitch: 456 servers updated .-.I'm done...and it's working :)
[12:35] <imbrandon> guess i need to update/upgrade all my servers too today
[12:35] <imbrandon> lol ajmitch 
[12:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: why?
[12:36] <imbrandon> the ones running edgy ( not dapper ones )
[12:37] <ajmitch> I'd wait a week or so
[12:37] <imbrandon> that and to get the final kernel etc on the buildd's
[12:37] <imbrandon> yea i might wait a few days
[12:37] <imbrandon> but i'm off the next 3 ( after 12 noon today ) so i would kinda like to do it while i'm off
[12:37] <imbrandon> incase something breaks
[12:37] <ajmitch> all these people rushing to upgrade
[12:37] <ajmitch> madness
[12:39] <gouki>  #ubuntu-release-party
[12:39] <gouki> Sorry!
[12:54] <v4m21> hey people where can I download ubuntu studio ?
[12:56] <pochu> http://ubuntustudio.org/
[12:57] <v4m21> Yeah, Know that, is there any alpha or beta release of it ?
[12:58] <pochu> no idea :)
[01:20] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[01:25] <pochu> hi DarkSun88
[01:25] <DarkSun88> pochu: Hi :)
[01:27] <tiCo89> Who is the account manager in ubuntu?
[01:28] <jsgotangco> account manager?
[01:28] <ajmitch> explain
[01:28] <tiCo89> the guy who adds people to the keyring on ftp-master ;)
[01:28] <pochu> maybe mail accounts? :)
[01:28] <pochu> tiCo89: ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
[01:28] <Fujitsu> tiCo89: We're not Debian.
[01:29] <jsgotangco> Fujitsu: you know its that time of the year when people go crazy about a distro's supposed release day
[01:29] <StevenK> pochu: I doubt that even works.
[01:29] <pochu> oh
[01:29] <ajmitch> tiCo89: it's controlled by launchpad
[01:29] <ajmitch> ultimately the tech board
[01:29] <pochu> StevenK: it was @debian, then ;)
[01:29] <Fujitsu> OMG XUBUNTU CDS ARE OUT SO IT'S DEFINITELY FINAL THERE'S NO OTHER POSSIBILITY PONIEZ
[01:29] <tiCo89> Fujitsu: Hmmm look - I generally don't use Ubuntu but when I anyway maintain several packages in Debian I could upload them to Ubuntu as well
[01:29] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: *stab*
[01:29] <tiCo89> but I don't like to search sponsors
[01:30] <jsgotangco> i didn't notice there's now an army of ops in that channel lol
[01:30] <StevenK> VRFY ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
[01:30] <StevenK> 550 <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
[01:30] <pochu> tiCo89: you can request syncs
[01:30] <pochu> tiCo89: no need to upload if they're in debian
[01:30] <StevenK> pochu: So nyah
[01:30] <Fujitsu> tiCo89: You'll have to go through the MOTU Council to get upload rights. Otherwise, use our (hopefully close to optimal) sponsorship process.
[01:30] <pochu> StevenK: nice to know, ty :)
[01:30] <tiCo89> pochu: is this done automatically?
[01:30] <pochu> tiCo89: yeah, at the beggining of the cicle, afaik
[01:31] <StevenK> cycle has a Y
[01:31] <StevenK> And no I
[01:31] <pochu> tiCo89: and later you can request it reporting a bug
[01:31] <pochu> StevenK: do you want to mentor me with my English? :-)
[01:31] <StevenK> pochu: My English is probably worse. :-P
[01:32] <tiCo89> pochu: nice... is there something like a "developers reference" or just those weird wikipages?
[01:32] <pochu> we can mentor each one :p
[01:32] <pochu> weird?
[01:32] <pochu> !sync | tiCo89 
[01:32] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:32] <StevenK> tiCo89: I can't recall an Ubuntu developers ref.
[01:32] <siretart> tiCo89: I believe we had a special process for fast-tracking DDs in the past. We have redesigned that process several times, now you need to convince the Motu Council (and optionally other MOTUs) that giving you upload rights was a good idea. that's the current process 
[01:33] <StevenK> I'd suggest you hang around for a bit first and see how things work.
[01:33] <StevenK> When we aren't 24 hours away from release. :-)
[01:33] <siretart> tiCo89: there indeed was an efford to create an 'ubuntu developers reference', I'm not sure if it was finished, though
[01:33] <tiCo89> siretart: ah, k, I'm not a DD anyway, still waiting for DAM
[01:33] <siretart> tiCo89: basically it was based on the debian developers reference, with all debian specific parts replaced by ubuntu ones.
[01:34] <StevenK> And then there's the processes that Ubuntu has and Debian doesn't
[01:34] <siretart> tiCo89: generally, we ubuntu dudes use wikis do document our processes. and we irc a lot
[01:34] <tiCo89> hmm okey
[01:35] <tiCo89> but thats more efford to stay up2date :-/
[01:35] <tiCo89> anyway, I go to work now...
[01:44] <ajmitch> night all
[01:45] <pochu> night ajmitch
[02:03] <RAOF> I've probably been trying at the wrong times, but does ftp.debian.org *ever* work?
[02:03] <ScottK> RAOF: What are you trying to do?
[02:04] <RAOF> Bootstrap sid, so I can make real debian packages :)
[02:04] <ScottK> Can you just pick a different mirror?
[02:04] <RAOF> Yes, that's what I've done.  The .au mirror doesn't choke on "Retrieving Release" :)
[02:05] <ScottK> deb ftp://debian.mirrors.pair.com/ unstable main contrib non-free always works well for me.
[02:05] <RAOF> Is that a round-robin mirror set or something?
[02:05] <ScottK> IIRC, in answer to your actual question, I've used it before and it has worked for me.
[02:09] <RAOF> Hm, amazingly enough there's no "restricted" section in Debian :(
[02:10] <ScottK> No
[02:11] <ScottK> Just non-free
[02:11] <RAOF> I should flag my sarcasm more obviously :)
[02:12] <ScottK> Sorry, didn't sleep well last nigh.
[02:12] <RAOF> Although it seems there may be a documentation bug in feisty's default pbuilderrc.  It seems that, if COMPONENTS is not set, the default is "main restricted" rather than just "main".
[02:59] <highvoltage> how can I find out where ~/.gconf/apps/panel/objects/email_launcher_screen0/%gconf.xml comes from? I'd like to prevent it from being created in the user's home directory
 Im sure Mith is just waiting for 13:37 UTC
[03:19] <elkbuntu> well i found it funny ;)
[03:21] <_MMA_> highvoltage: Is that the Evolution panel launcher?
[03:22] <pochu> why 13.37?
[03:22] <lupine_85> :D
[03:22] <ScottK> highvoltage: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=gconf.xml&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=stable&arch=i386
[03:22] <StevenK> pochu: Because mc44 is 14 years old.
[03:22] <StevenK> Or something.
[03:23] <pochu> :)
[03:23] <lupine_85> I'm 21 and find it funny :p
[03:24] <StevenK> 1337 == Leet
[03:24] <StevenK> If I have to spell it out.
[03:24] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:24] <highvoltage> _MMA_: yes
[03:24] <ScottK> StevenK: Thanks for the translation.
[03:25] <highvoltage> ScottK: thanks
[03:25] <lupine_85> it's 1337 o'clock!
[03:26] <ScottK> highvoltage: NP.  You get that off of the file search on packages.debian.org for future reference.
[03:26] <_MMA_> highvoltage: In Ubuntu Studio we dont install Evo so it left a broken icon there. Do you want to see how we removed it?
[03:27] <highvoltage> _MMA_: that's *exactly* what I'm looking for :)
[03:27] <pochu> highvoltage: Right click > Remove from panel :p
[03:27] <highvoltage> pochu: hah
[03:28] <_MMA_> highvoltage: Download this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/ubuntustudio-default-settings_0.1_all.deb Extract it and look at the usr/share/ubuntustudio-default-settings/panel-settings.entries file.
[03:28] <highvoltage> _MMA_: ok, doing now...
[03:29] <_MMA_> highvoltage: I cant find the source package atm but if you need it I can get it later.
[03:31] <highvoltage> _MMA_: ah, I found what I looked for in there, thanks
[03:31] <_MMA_> np
[03:39] <nixternal> ajmitch: sharms is after you man!
[03:40] <sharms> I have no power of ops here
[03:40] <sharms> best I can do is write mean things on the planet :)
[03:49] <xq> in chalk?
[03:49] <sharms> ha
[03:49] <xq> or permanent marker?
[03:49] <xq> i prefer the permanent marker or the bloods
[03:50] <sharms> well the problem is he is so productive, so I can't disturb his work for gutsy
[03:50] <xq> missiles aim -far-
[03:50] <xq> and you could go for one of those missiles that don't necessarily disturb.
[03:50] <xq> like a shock-and-awe tactic.
[03:50] <xq> ;)
[03:51] <xq> you need/want to achieve the "awwwweeee sharms wants me"
[03:51] <xq> so...missile works.
[04:06] <mr_pouit> mmh, I love SRUs =)
[04:06] <mr_pouit>    pypanel | 2.4-1.1build1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
[04:06] <mr_pouit>    pypanel |    2.4-1.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
[04:07] <mr_pouit> what revision number can I set for edgy-proposed? :|
[04:18] <pochu> mr_pouit: ubuntuX.0~proposed1
[04:18] <pochu> of course X is the latest revision in the package ;)
[04:19] <pochu> sorry, I wanted to say ubuntuX.1~proposed1 :)
[04:19] <pochu> if there is no ubuntu revision, then ubuntu0.1~proposed1
[04:20] <pochu> mr_pouit: and the sru should be ubuntuX.1 :)
[04:20] <mr_pouit> pochu: then it would be greater than the version in feisty :(
[04:21] <StevenK> Personally, I don't think pypanel is worth an SRU.
[04:21] <StevenK> But that's just me.
[04:21] <pochu> Maybe I'm missing something
[04:22] <mr_pouit> StevenK: even if the package is actually useless since it is empty?
[04:32] <Adri2000> mr_pouit: edgy: 2.4-1.1build1, edgy-proposed: 2.4-1.1ubuntu0.1~proposed1, edgy-updates: 2.4-1.1ubuntu0.1
[04:33] <mr_pouit> Adri2000: edgy ships 2.4-1.1 :$
[04:33] <Adri2000> ah, I looked at the feisty line
[04:33] <mr_pouit> and feisty 2.4-1.1build1, so appending ubuntu0.X~prop1 to edgy version won't make it :/
[04:36] <Adri2000> good point, edgy-updates' version will be >> feisty's
[05:03] <LaserJock> if anybody is around from last night, my debian-tex svn checkout was 22GB
[05:04] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: holy cow!
[05:04] <ScottK> LaserJock: Cool.
[05:05] <ScottK> And I felt bad having 219 MB of Edgy updates before I upgrade the production hard drive on my laptop...
[05:06] <LaserJock> the scary thing is it's for less than 15 source packages
[05:06] <LaserJock> so that more than 1GB/package
[05:08] <sharms> So who wants to help me with my bash spec?
[05:11] <dqdev> hello there
[05:11] <psusi> bash spec?
[05:11] <dqdev> I just applied to become a motu-helpful
[05:11] <dqdev> how long does it take to get an answer back from the mentor?
[05:11] <dqdev> that I applied to?
[05:11] <LaserJock> dqdev: did you email me? mantha@ ?
[05:11] <sharms> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
[05:11] <dqdev> yes!!
[05:12] <LaserJock> dqdev: I'm really sorry I haven't responded yet
[05:12] <dqdev> I didnt get any answer and I got worried
[05:12] <dqdev> :(
[05:12] <dqdev> hehe
[05:12] <LaserJock> dqdev: I've been swamped and we are thinking of moving to using a mentoring list rather than individual people
[05:12] <LaserJock> I was hoping to hear back on the mailing list creation before I emailed you
[05:13] <ScottK> I thought the process was show up here and harass people until they answer your questions...
[05:13] <sharms> that failed for me last week
[05:13] <sharms> I was trying to fix some bitsize bugs, got stuck, and just ended up nobody knowledgeable could help
[05:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, yes, that also works
[05:13] <ScottK> Persistence is a virtue.
[05:13] <dqdev> so... should we just wait?
[05:13] <sharms> now obviously I am sticking around here, constantly.  But for a new guy, that could be discouraging
[05:14] <ScottK> sharms: What bug?
[05:14] <LaserJock> dqdev: well, not that you're here you've gotten past the important part :-)
[05:14] <sharms> ScottK: was just fixing XNC duplicate menu entry, couldn't figure out how to repackage it correctly
[05:14] <LaserJock> dqdev: most MOTU learning happens here
[05:14] <ScottK> What's the bug #?
[05:14] <dqdev> ok... I m eager to start
[05:14] <sharms> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xnc/+bug/45569
[05:14] <ubotu> Malone bug 45569 in xnc "Duplicate items in the applications menu" [Low,Confirmed]  
[05:15] <LaserJock> dqdev: if I sent you an email I'd link you to the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[05:15] <LaserJock> !packagingguide
[05:15] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[05:15] <sharms> for the life of me I could not make debdiff work like I thought it worked
[05:15] <dqdev> perfect
[05:15] <dqdev> LaserJock: do you already have some ideas about my contributions...?
[05:16] <dqdev> LaserJock: or how I am about to start?
[05:16] <ScottK> sharms: How is this http://librarian.launchpad.net/7335210/xnc.debdiff different than what you wanted?
[05:16] <dqdev> LaserJock: I really dont know what is the exact procedure
[05:16] <dqdev> LaserJock: or how things really work
[05:16] <sharms> ScottK: no that does the trick, just I had to edit out a bunch of junk in the diff because it caught a whole bunch of changes that were not changes
[05:16] <ScottK> Ah.
[05:16] <sharms> which leads me to believe I was doing something wrong
[05:17] <ScottK> OK
[05:17] <ScottK> Can you pastebin the original debdiff?
[05:17] <sharms> not to mention the level 4 patch
[05:17] <sharms> no I rm -rf the data already
[05:17] <LaserJock> dqdev: so it sounds like you're interested in science packages
[05:17] <ScottK> AFAIK as long as it applies 1-4 it's ok
[05:17] <LaserJock> dqdev: we've got the MOTU Science team
[05:18] <dqdev> LaserJock: yes...  that's what I would like to more to do
[05:18] <ScottK> sharms: How did you build your binary package to test it?
[05:18] <sharms> ScottK: can you verify the procedure I went through is right?
[05:18] <dqdev> LaserJock: or to get involved into
[05:19] <sharms> ScottK: first I apt-get source packagename, then I cp -r packagename to packagename.new, then I make changes and increment changelog for new packagename, then I run debuild -S -us -uc on newpackage, then I run pbuild build newpackage.dsc, then I do a debdiff with orig.dsc and new.dsc
[05:19] <sharms> or am I missing something?
[05:20] <LaserJock> dqdev: well, right now there isn't a ton to do since we just released Feisty
[05:20] <sharms> There are 30,000 bugs
[05:20] <sharms> that seems like a bunch to do!
[05:20] <LaserJock> dqdev: but you can certainly read up on the packaging guides, hang out here, and work on things like bug triaging like sharms just said
[05:21] <ScottK> sharms: -us -uc builds the binary package too.  If the clean rules are buggy (they often are) that'll pollute your source tree
[05:21] <dqdev> ok... could you assign me to smth really easy for starterts??
[05:21] <sharms> ScottK: what is the proper method?
[05:21] <LaserJock> dqdev: read the packaging guide :-)
[05:21] <ScottK> sharms: AFAIK, no
[05:21] <dqdev> hehe.. ok
[05:21] <sharms> dqdev: there are bug "tags" somewhere on the wiki there is a link, and there are bugs called bitesized
[05:22] <dqdev> ok
[05:22] <sharms> ScottK: ah so you are saying that it was the package that did it because of buggy clean rules, not my procedure
[05:22] <sharms> ScottK: if that happens should I also fix their makefile?
[05:22] <ScottK> sharms: No
[05:22] <LaserJock> dqdev: also look at the Science bug list at http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html
[05:23] <ScottK> sharms: If you are fixing a bug, all you are obligated to do is fix the bug.
[05:23] <ScottK> If you know make files and can work that out too, that's a bonus.
[05:23] <sharms> Gotcha
[05:23] <ScottK> Unless it's for an SRU, for an SRU you do the smallest change possible
[05:24] <ScottK> I always debuild -S -sa, and then build the binary with pbuilder
[05:24] <dqdev> something about the procedure, which is still not quite clear to me
[05:24] <ScottK> This means I sign the source package, which I don't need for a debdiff, but that way it's the same for me for debdiff or REVU
[05:25] <ScottK> sharms: You good with that?
[05:25] <dqdev> do you tell me what bug to fix, or on what package to work on or do I pick one on my own???
[05:25] <sharms> yeah I appreciate the help
[05:25] <ScottK> NP - You were really close.  I did the same thing when I started
[05:26] <LaserJock> dqdev: hehe, it's very loose here. Do whatever you like, find a package you like or just work on everything
[05:26] <ScottK> dqdev: As a piece of advice, find a bug tagged both bitesize and packaging.
[05:26] <bddebian> Heya gang
[05:26] <LaserJock> dqdev: as we start Gutsy Gibbon we'll probably get some more direction
[05:26] <ScottK> Howdy
[05:26] <LaserJock> ScottK: yes, good advice
[05:26] <sharms> bddebian: hey
[05:26] <dqdev> so I dont really need to be assigned by you to a project/task
[05:26] <bddebian> Hi ScottK, sharms, LaserJock
[05:27] <ScottK> dqdev: Just go to work
[05:27] <ScottK> high bddebian
[05:29] <sharms> I think that is one point that should be addressed through motu-mentoring: The scope of understanding motu tasks is very large and intimidating to outsiders
[05:31] <LaserJock> dqdev: heavens no
[05:32] <LaserJock> sharms: yes, I agree
[05:32] <LaserJock> dqdev: we aren't *that* mean ;-)
[05:33] <_MMA_> LaserJock made me cry once. :(
[05:33] <bddebian> :'-(
[05:33] <LaserJock> oh come on
[05:33] <LaserJock> that wasn't intentional ;-)
[05:34] <_MMA_> Well, you should have paid for the cab afterward then. :(
[05:34] <shawarma> When does Gutsy open? I'm bored.
[05:35] <dqdev> ok... I ll look around and start working on smthng
[05:36] <Hobbsee> shawarma: hah.  already?
[05:36] <zul> shawarma: when its ready
[05:37] <shawarma> Hobbsee: Yeah, let's get this thing going.
[05:37] <shawarma> Hobbsee: :-)
[05:37] <shawarma> zul: Clever.
[05:37] <sharms> you know, I really did like edgy
[05:38] <shawarma> Hobbsee: It beats the heck out of doing laundry.. which reminds me..
[05:38] <sharms> see
[05:38] <sharms> now you have to wonder if dqdev is coming back
[05:38] <Hobbsee> shawarma: haha
[05:38] <Hobbsee> shawarma: give them a day off :P
[05:39] <sharms> maybe a guide, like web 2.0 style, that breaks down motu into super small pieces much like the bitesize bugs
[05:39] <Hobbsee> shawarma: that's what you can do.  update all the documentation
[05:40] <bddebian> w00t
[05:40] <ScottK> sharms: It's a wiki.  Have at it.
[05:40] <sharms> I can guarantee that dqdev just went to the documentation, got overwhelmed, and logged off ubuntu-motu
[05:41] <sharms> Yeah I might do that, just the only limitation being my knowledge
[05:41] <crimsun> eh, at least he avoided the sharp, pointy teeth.
[05:41] <ScottK> sharms: Perfect.  Write the newbies guide to getting started in MOTU.
[05:42] <ScottK> sharms: Do it now.  Wait and you'll know to much.
[05:42] <LaserJock> sharms: well, I have something in the works
[05:43] <sharms> I was just hoping with advancements in technology that I could just load motu skills via matrix like plug in my head
[05:43] <ScottK> sharms: I got the same treatment from the DD that agreed to upload my stuff in Debian, so I recently wrote this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
[05:44] <LaserJock> well, we need massive overhaul of documentation
[05:44] <LaserJock> but it requires people willing to do it
[05:44] <Hobbsee> but it needs lots of work
[05:45] <ScottK> LaserJock: True, but I think what sharms is trying to avoid volunteering to do is something we need that's distinct from what we have now.
[05:45] <LaserJock> yes, that's what I mean by overhaul
[05:45] <sharms> yeah I just have a business trip coming up here soon, but I am thinking about it
[05:45] <LaserJock> again, I've got something in the works
[05:45] <LaserJock> hopefully I can get it going by UDS
[05:46] <ScottK> OK, so we can all quit working on docs because LaserJock has it covered?
[05:46] <LaserJock> s/it going/a mockup/ ;-)
[05:46] <LaserJock> oh pfftt
[05:46] <LaserJock> we really really need to get a gameplan together
[05:46] <LaserJock> what do we want to document?
[05:46] <sharms> I think I will design on independent of your efforts laserjock, mine focusing on brand new people, and we can meet in the middle somewhere
[05:47] <LaserJock> how do we want to document it?
[05:47] <sharms> I want to make a web 2.0, rounded corners, tons of pictures guide
[05:47] <LaserJock> sharms: I'd rather it be a consistent community efforts
[05:47] <ScottK> sharms: Start with the wiki.
[05:47] <ScottK> Get the right info into a new page there.
[05:47] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: we need it to be from a MOTU-incommer perspective
[05:47] <LaserJock> sharms: well, to some extent, don't "dumb" it down too much
[05:48] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: http://buntudot.org/people/~hobbsee/misc/MOTU type style
[05:48] <sharms> Wiki is too overwhelming for me, I will use it as a reference, but I am just not knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable editing existing pages
[05:48] <LaserJock> yes, exactly
[05:48] <LaserJock> hang on people
[05:48] <zul> 2 minutes for roughing?
[05:49] <LaserJock> ok, so clearly we have several people thinking similar things
[05:49] <LaserJock> but not working together ;-)
[05:49] <ScottK> sharms: Make a new page.  Don't edit exiting
[05:49] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: might be a plan to work by gobby
[05:49] <shawarma> Hobbsee: I'm not really in my I-feel-like-doing-some-documentation-writing mood. I'm not even sure I have such a mood.
[05:49] <LaserJock> let's put together a MOTU Docs gameplan/roadmap
[05:49] <Hobbsee> shawarma: heh
[05:50] <LaserJock> I want to see "what" we want for documentation before we go and start writing things all over the place
[05:50] <sharms> My real goal is super low barrier of entry through aesthetics, organization, and media
[05:50] <LaserJock> the MOTU documentation should be in 1 place
[05:50] <ScottK> But in the meantime whatever sharms comes up with can be integrated into it.  I think he's solving a different problem.
[05:50] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's about structure, not content.
[05:51] <LaserJock> yes, but I think we need structure before he head into content
[05:51] <ScottK> If sharms makes new content, it can be integrated into the structure.
[05:51] <LaserJock> we need to be consistent
[05:51] <LaserJock> not if he doesn't know what else is going on
[05:51] <LaserJock> and how it fits togethere
[05:51] <LaserJock> -e
[05:51] <sharms> do I ever?
[05:51] <ScottK> LaserJock: Thus my comment about we all wait.
[05:51] <LaserJock> well, since people are in the mood I want to capture it ;-)
[05:52] <ScottK> He sees a hole, he should fill it.
[05:52] <sharms> ha my real goal is this: transform slomo into a webpage 
[05:52] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:52] <LaserJock> well, there's a couple issues here
[05:53] <LaserJock> 1) documentation should look nice and be organized and complete
[05:53] <LaserJock> 2) there will basically always be a barrier to learning packaging, we can't get rid of it via pretty pictures
[05:54] <LaserJock> we don't want to make it too easy, but we don't want to make it unneccesarily hard either
[05:54] <sharms> I think pretty pictures help with visualization, and we need to use as much media as possible to hit all the parts of the brain
[05:54] <sharms> it works great for web-frameworks
[05:54] <LaserJock> not necessarily, but kinda yeah
[05:54] <LaserJock> some people work better that way
[05:54] <LaserJock> others don't
[05:55] <LaserJock> it's one of the hard parts of documentation
[05:55] <LaserJock> however, I'm not nearly as concerned with specific media
[05:55] <LaserJock> in the end we kinda need to cover lots of different media
[05:56] <LaserJock> so I like sharms idea
[05:56] <sharms> Thats why I like the desktop screenshots on behind motu.  When you don't get those, the average reader ends up thinking that MOTU is about having 30 monitors and assembly code everywhere
[05:56] <LaserJock> which often isn't far from the truth
[05:56] <sharms> ha
[05:58] <LaserJock> anyway
[05:58] <welshbyte> was just looking at an eclipse bug
[05:58] <LaserJock> the, it's not necessarily an easy thing
[05:58] <LaserJock> the Documentation Team, for instance, doesn't have a single screenshot in the Ubuntu documentation, that I know of
[05:59] <LaserJock> it's difficult to keep updated, for one
[05:59] <LaserJock> it can be also hard for an essentially CLI task like packaging
[06:00] <welshbyte> those grey monospace boxes with CLI commands are good for that, as long as the command is explained so that the reader knows exactly what it's doing
[06:00] <welshbyte> otherwise there's no learning
[06:01] <sharms> I also like information boxes, where we have a box with a tango (!) logo that says information critical to the article
[06:01] <sharms> basically kind of copy of fedoras doc style a bit
[06:01] <LaserJock> well, I do that with the packaging guide
[06:02] <LaserJock> essentially there's a couple problems, as I see it anyway.
[06:02] <LaserJock> 1) the Packaging Guide is mostly just about packaging, not about MOTU
[06:02] <LaserJock> so there isn't much on processes, how to get involved, etc.
[06:03] <LaserJock> 2) MOTU wiki documentation is kinda scattered, outdate, redundant at times
[06:03] <LaserJock> 3) we don't have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference yet, which would help with 1)
[06:05] <LaserJock> any other problems?
[06:05] <sharms> Maybe we need to divide it up, because we need a bland, technical reference, and a flashy newbie reference
[06:05] <cbx33> we need a process part too
[06:05] <cbx33> in the n00b section prboably
[06:06] <sharms> since once you know it, you don't want the hand holding as much
[06:06] <cbx33> yes
[06:06] <cbx33> maybe 
[06:06] <cbx33> like nice shiney equipment has when it comes
[06:06] <LaserJock> sharms: well, that's essentially how I saw the Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference
[06:06] <cbx33> Getting started Guide
[06:06] <cbx33> and a full on hands dirty thingy
[06:06] <sharms> LaserJock: yeah I don't know if I was focusing specifically on packaging, or on being an all around contributor 
[06:07] <LaserJock> we do have a "Contributing to Ubuntu" doc
[06:07] <LaserJock> in the doc team repo
[06:07] <cbx33> i think the problem is
[06:07] <cbx33> ther are so many ways to contribute
[06:07] <cbx33> we need a short doc for each
[06:07] <cbx33> answering the same sorts of questions
[06:07] <cbx33> imh
[06:07] <cbx33> o
[06:07] <sharms> What I am looking for is something that only my mentor was able to give me, that I want to reproduce so we can help jumpstart that step
[06:07] <cbx33> sharms, agreed
[06:08] <welshbyte> i like the idea of having exercises at the end of the documentation page or summaries of what was covered and what you should now be able to do
[06:08] <sharms> The documentation left me stranded and confused, the mentor answered all my questions not answered by the docs
[06:08] <LaserJock> yes, it's just hard to replace people by documentation :-)
[06:08] <cbx33> sharms, which doc?
[06:08] <LaserJock> that's why I'm advocating a motu-mentors mailing list
[06:08] <cbx33> LaserJock, good idea
[06:08] <sharms> cbx33: its been awhile, no clue anymore, but I read all the wiki docs, and I even bought the debian book which was recommended just for the packaging section
[06:09] <LaserJock> we need a 3 prong (at least) approach of IRC, Mailing List, Docs
[06:09] <cbx33> LaserJock's pacakging guide helped me a lot
[06:09] <cbx33> I keep it in my drawer at work ;)
[06:09] <welshbyte> +1 on motu-mentors@
[06:09] <LaserJock> cbx33: funny, I have a copy of the Debian New Maintainer's Guide in my drawer at work
[06:09] <cbx33> heheh
[06:09] <LaserJock> cbx33: I forgot I had it then found it yesterday when I was digging around in my desk
[06:10] <cbx33> heheh
[06:10] <cbx33> mine keeps losing a page at a time each time I open and close the drawer
[06:10] <LaserJock> I've got a print copy here
[06:10] <LaserJock> very first book buy the doc team on lulu.com
[06:11] <LaserJock> *by
[06:11] <sharms> I like this page: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/developers-guide/ch-rpm-building.html    --- they make use of a great color scheme, grey code boxes, and information boxes with icons
[06:12] <sharms> I want to take that, and take it 1 more level into readabilityu
[06:12] <LaserJock> sharms: and that's different than http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
[06:12] <sharms> no actually that doc looks better
[06:13] <sharms> the ubuntu one
[06:13] <LaserJock> I'm telling ya, we're not totally full of crack over here ;-)
[06:14] <LaserJock> we need improvements for sure
[06:14] <LaserJock> but I still feel like the Ubuntu Packaging Guide is about the easiest resource we've got for learning to package
[06:15] <sharms> yeah actually I really like that style, do we have a reference like that for "top 10 most common MOTU tasks"
[06:15] <LaserJock> I'd like to make it more "user friendly" but we also need to preserve the detailed reference part
[06:15] <LaserJock> hence having both a Packaging Guide and Developer's Reference
[06:15] <welshbyte> the ubuntu packaging guide is great, but i think it ends too soon
[06:15] <LaserJock> exactly
[06:16] <LaserJock> ok, so 3 distinct docs:
[06:16] <welshbyte> for instance, python packages are pretty popular in ubuntu but i don't think the packaging guide mentions them in much detail
[06:17] <LaserJock> 1) packaging guide - learning how to create debian packages, generic
[06:17] <LaserJock> 2) developer's reference - Ubuntu-specific reference on processes, etc.
[06:17] <LaserJock> 3) MOTU guide - MOTU specific, how to get invloved
[06:18] <LaserJock> sound about right?
[06:18] <sharms> yeah but getting involved needs to have detailed sections
[06:18] <LaserJock> sure
[06:18] <sharms> How to create a debdiff, how to check upstream trackers for open bugs etc
[06:19] <cbx33> LaserJock, the guide is the easiest for learning packaging
[06:19] <LaserJock> ok, so I think 1) and 2) can stay as they are as docbook/HTML
[06:19] <LaserJock> 3) I think should probably be a wiki guide
[06:20] <sacater> HAPPY RELEASE DAY EVERYONE!
[06:20] <sacater> juist got back from my bike ride
[06:20] <LaserJock> hi sacater :-)
[06:20] <sacater> hi
[06:20] <LaserJock> the problem with the MOTU Guide, and why I didn't do it in the packaging guide, is that it will change a lot
[06:21] <LaserJock> it's not like a reference where you write it and then just do a little maintanence
[06:21] <LaserJock> sacater: good luck, I'm guessing the download speed will be not so great
[06:21] <sacater> oh yeah
[06:21] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: where'd you go?
[06:21] <sacater> everyone will be getting it
[06:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: here
[06:22] <Hobbsee> somewhere
[06:22] <Hobbsee> i think
[06:22] <sacater> LaserJock: translation_US is down :o
[06:22] <ScottK> sacater: If you've been running Feisty development versions and you're up to date, then you've got it.
[06:23] <sacater> :o
[06:23] <sacater> oh
[06:23] <sacater> mmk
[06:23] <sacater> Translation-en-US isnt working
[06:24] <sacater> its either down or ridiculously busy
[06:24] <sacater> oh, done
[06:24] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: nope, lost her
[06:24] <sacater> no updates yay!
[06:26] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: what do you think of all of ^^?
[06:26] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: the part that i took in sounded sensbiel
[06:27] <LaserJock> well, maybe we should spec it out
[06:27] <sharms> Hobbsee: translation: the parts that were not sharms were sensible 
[06:27] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:29] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: have you started any writing on the stuff that 
[06:29] <LaserJock> tha's in the outline you gave?
[06:29] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: all i've got written out is that outline
[06:30] <Hobbsee> and that's very much a WIP
[06:30] <Hobbsee> its' mostly in my brain
[06:30] <LaserJock> uh oh ;-)
[06:30] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:30] <Hobbsee> along with the plans of world domination
[06:30] <Hobbsee> speaking of which, when are the golden pony awards?
[06:31] <LaserJock> very soon
[06:31] <Hobbsee> yay :)
[06:31] <LaserJock> I'm guessing today if I get around to it
[06:31] <LaserJock> I might wait until all the "OMG FEISTY!!!!" is out of the way ;-)
[06:31] <Hobbsee> lol
[06:31] <Hobbsee> and planet comes up again
[06:33] <cbx33> and down again
[06:38] <nixternal> haha, I was just noticing the same thing. docs.ubuntu.com has been doing the same
[06:41] <sharms> nixternal: I hear its because of my enhancedbash spec
[06:41] <nixternal> muhahahahaha I doubt it ;p
[06:41] <LaserJock> sharms: lol
[06:41] <Amaranth> poningru: lupine_85 is in here :)
[06:41] <poningru> thanks :D
[06:42] <poningru> lupine_85: ping
[06:42] <poningru> does the beryl package in feisty automagically enable compositing for X? or does that need to be done manually?
[06:42] <lupine_85> pong?
[06:43] <lupine_85> composite is enabled in the X server by default
[06:43] <poningru> oh!
[06:43] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOnFeisty
[06:43] <lupine_85> the beryl package doesn't play with any X server or driver settings at all
[06:44] <sharms> that sounds more like a question for #ubuntu
[06:44] <sharms> or even #ubuntu-effects
[06:44] <lupine_85> Composite "true" is the default on newer X.org servers
[06:44] <poningru> hmm ok thanks
[06:46] <zen> I noticed that the topic said the entire archive is frozen for release...does that mean that we can't get Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 in?
[06:46] <mr_pouit> yes
[06:47] <zen> Bleh, that sucks...
[06:48] <crimsun> we don't change frozen, released stable versions.
[06:48] <crimsun> besides, mozilla-thunderbird is a main package and not our jurisdiction (mostly)
[06:49] <geser> and you don't get a new untested upstream version short before the release into the archive
[06:50] <crimsun> on another note, I guess we could watch -bugs and start tagging SRU candidates
[06:50] <sharms> dqdev: how is it going so far?
[06:50] <dqdev> i m just reading stuff in the WIKI
[06:51] <sharms> dqdev: is anything really unclear so far?
[06:51] <joejaxx> Happy Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn Release Everyone :)
[06:51] <dqdev> well to be honest, it's a lot of info for a first time
[06:51] <zen> Heh, happy release.
[06:51] <LaserJock> yep
[06:51] <dqdev> and the work-order is a little bit obscure
[06:51] <dqdev> but ill figure it out
[06:52] <dqdev> reading the manual now...
[06:52] <crimsun> has anyone pointed dqdev to /TODO?
[06:52] <sharms> dqdev: make sure if you have questions, don't get frustrated, just ask here
[06:52] <dqdev> i found the page THINGS TO BE DONE
[06:52] <sharms> crimsun: if he was just pointed to MOTU docs, I am sure he has hours of reading ahead as it is
[06:52] <dqdev> hehe
[06:53] <crimsun> sometimes it's easier to dive right in and fix bugs, then go back and read overview docs
[06:53] <dqdev> to the tip that I got before, hence to look first at bitesize bugs
[06:53] <dqdev> what are exactly? easy bugs to fix?
[06:53] <sharms> yeah they are the bugs that people getting started can fix
[06:53] <crimsun> yes, small, easily explained/understood bugs that can be fixed quickly
[06:54] <sharms> so bitesized bugs only take people like me 2-4 weeks to fix
[06:54] <dqdev> ok... I should really start from there
[06:54] <sharms> jk :) although I do need a new comp, pbuilder is killing me
[06:55] <zen> well, doesn't look like tb2's installer works anyways... =\
[06:55] <sharms> zen: yeah you probably want to join their IRC channel instead since 2.0.0 isnt a part of ubuntu
[06:56] <zen> sharms, yeah, I'm there.
[07:01] <dqdev> in order to start working on a bug, do I have to subscribe to it? And if yes, can I do that on my own?
[07:02] <crimsun> you do not have to sub to it, but it's a good idea. Yes, you can sub on your own to any public bug.
[07:02] <dqdev> ok, thanks
[07:02] <dqdev> and something more...
[07:03] <dqdev> let's say that I try to fix a simple bug (a simple one that I see here: supertux no menu icon)
[07:03] <dqdev> excuse the following silly questions, but I have to start from somewhere
[07:04] <LaserJock> they aren't silly
[07:04] <dqdev> then i trace the problem, fix the problem and then do I have to do the packaging from starT?
[07:04] <LaserJock> nope
[07:04] <crimsun> no, you provide what's called a debdiff.
[07:04] <dqdev> ok... have to read some more...
[07:05] <dqdev> sorry . shouldnt hurry
[07:05] <crimsun> the packaging guide on your system (and online) has instructions for generating a debdiff.
[07:06] <dqdev> i'm reading it right now
[07:06] <sacater> may i now ask what the next release is going to be called
[07:06] <LaserJock> sacater: Gutsy Gibbon
[07:07] <zul> isnt it gusty?
[07:07] <sacater> ooh
[07:07] <sacater> gusy gibbon
[07:07] <sacater> gusty*
[07:07] <nixternal> gusty?
[07:07] <Adri2000> no, gutsy :)
[07:07] <nixternal> it isn't flatulent!!!
[07:07] <sacater> ha ha
[07:07] <sacater> anyway
[07:07] <sacater> ill take all the Q+A for 'gutsy'
[07:08] <sacater> :P
[07:11] <dqdev> do I have to be member of any Launchpad Team, before I start working on some bug?
[07:11] <ScottK> No.
[07:11] <ScottK> If you are working on triaging, joining bugsquad is good.
[07:20] <nixternal> that Ubuntu FGLXR button or what not to install the binary blobs is wreaking havoc here at the install fest
[07:24] <tsmithe> restricted-manager?
[07:26] <nixternal> it is freezing every machine
[07:26] <nixternal> fglrx btw
[07:26] <ScottK> Bug #??
[07:27] <nixternal> right at X, you loose all control, can't ctrl+alt+f1 into a term, power and reset are your friends at that poing
[07:27] <nixternal> s/poing/point
[07:27] <nixternal> well, the bug would be naked. it doesn't even write a xorg log at all
[07:28] <ScottK> It's a start...
[07:28] <nixternal> we can fill the report in with "it just locks, you can't do anything, no logs, can't do this or that" ;)
[07:28] <nixternal> we are trying manual installation now to see if it is the button way, or if it is fglrx in general
[07:28] <ScottK> That's better than some we get.
[07:28] <nixternal> haha true
[07:29] <crimsun> A nice long vacation until gutsy+1 would be nice.
[07:29] <ScottK> bug 107720
[07:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 107720 in Ubuntu "have no idea" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107720
[07:29] <bddebian> crimsun: Go for it, you deserve it! :-)
[07:29] <nixternal> crimsun: I hear you there! where do you want to go?
[07:29] <crimsun> nixternal: Vista, duh.
[07:29] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[07:29] <nixternal> I knew that was going to be the answer
[07:30] <nixternal> lunch time
[07:36] <sacater> pochu: ive topped you on karma :P
[07:38] <pochu> sacater: you rock! :)
[07:38] <sacater> thank very much
[07:39] <sacater> pochu: me works as* off
[07:39] <sacater> :o
[07:40] <grayman> heh
[07:40] <pochu> :)
[07:40] <grayman> now all women will stand in line to your booth instead ;)
[07:42] <sharms> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-pptp/+bug/107738
[07:42] <ubotu> Malone bug 107738 in network-manager-pptp "network-manager-pptp doesn't exists in Ubuntu!" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[07:42] <sharms> is this guy BaBL being a troll or just bad english?
[07:44] <grayman> heh
[07:44] <grayman> a troll
[07:44] <grayman> famous Russian sarcasm
[07:46] <grayman> some people just don't know where -not- to use it
[07:46] <sharms> yeah it just makes it hard to tell with language barriers
[07:47] <grayman> well, this package needs to be moved to main
[07:48] <grayman> while in Federal cities most people use adsl, in oter parts of the country vpn is still very popular
[07:48] <grayman> s/oter/other
[07:49] <sharms> We are sorry for your frustration, but as you were not involved in development at any point, and pptp required by default install is a fringe case (< 1%) I don't know how we would have figured that out. This bug is a great start to getting this included for Gutsy, so you are on the right track.
[07:49] <sharms> that was my response
[07:49] <grayman> good enough
[08:49] <zul> oh let the crackful ideas on the ubuntuforums begin
[08:53] <ScottK> zul: Way to late.
[08:57] <sharms> is anyone else concerned about the 40% drop in performance going to gcc 4.2?
[09:03] <psusi> huh?
[09:04] <LaserJock> hmm, me thinks Planet must be down
[09:04] <gnomefreak> psusi: http://www.whatimiss.net/ubuntu-devel/?m=20070402
[09:04] <gnomefreak> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-02/msg00390.html may give more insite
[09:06] <zul> LaserJock: I think it might has something to do with feisty and being released today
[09:07] <LaserJock> perhaps, it was working fine for me
[09:07] <zul> its working for me fine though
[09:27] <tiCo89> dget http://www.marioiseli.com/debian/sid/main/source/net/mcabber_0.9.1-1.dsc
[09:27] <tiCo89> can anyone modify it for me and upload it to ubuntu? thank you
[09:30] <LaserJock> tiCo89: nobody can upload right now, Feisty is just released and Gutsy Gibbon hasn't opened
[09:30] <tiCo89> LaserJock: hmmm okey, but you can echo it >> ~/ubuntu/TODO
[09:31] <LaserJock> !info mcabber feisty
[09:31] <ubotu> mcabber: Small Jabber console client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.3-1 (feisty), package size 142 kB, installed size 688 kB
[09:31] <LaserJock> tiCo89: it'll automatically get synced into gutsy
[09:32] <tiCo89> thx
[09:38] <ivoks> omg
[09:38] <ivoks> i have load 66 on hr.archive.ubuntu.com
[09:39] <tiCo89> ivoks: *grin* :)
[09:41] <ivoks> 600 active conections
[09:41] <ivoks> :/
[09:42] <LaserJock> yeah, I wonder if we'll get numbers on how many downloads there were today
[09:43] <zul> probably
[09:43] <ivoks> i'll be able to tell you that as soon as i manage to open logs :D
[09:43] <ivoks> http://ubuntu-hr.org/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain.html
[09:51] <ScottK> I did patches for Bug #107628 - Before it gets to much farther along for security, I'd appreciate a sanity check from a MOTU...
[09:51] <ubotu> Malone bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
[09:52] <keescook> ScottK: the patches look good, I sent a comment about using "dpatch" to incorporate them into the packages, though.  good work!  :)
[09:52] <ScottK> I just saw it.
[09:53] <ScottK> The older packages didn't have a /patches dir, so it seemes sensible to not make one to keep the diff small.
[09:54] <keescook> ScottK: okay, cool.  Yeah, I didn't check dapper, just edgy's package.
[09:54] <ScottK> Hang on though.
[09:54] <keescook> I have a script to help me guess at the patch systems: http://outflux.net/debian/scripts/what-patch
[09:55] <ScottK> keescook: Nevermind.  I"m just to tired.  
[09:55] <ScottK> I got not much sleep last night.
[09:55] <ScottK> The patch systems are there.
[09:55] <keescook> doh!  no problem.  :)
[09:55] <ScottK> If you want me to redo, I will, but probably not until tomorrow.
[09:56] <keescook> sure, no rush.  :)  g'night!  :)
[10:20] <dqdev> Is there a WIKI page that describes the whole process on how to truck and fix a bug?
[10:20] <tonyyarusso> Wow tony, just wow
[10:21] <dqdev> yes... Or any general help?
[10:21] <tonyyarusso> !bugs
[10:21] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[10:21] <tonyyarusso> Hrm, that's mostly reporting
[10:22] <dqdev> yes
[10:22] <dqdev> let me explain you
[10:22] <tonyyarusso> Well, subscribing to it in LP is the first step
[10:22] <dqdev> i found a bitesize bug 
[10:22] <dqdev> for newbies like me
[10:22] <dqdev> in LP
[10:22] <tonyyarusso> righto
[10:23] <dqdev> what step should i follow
[10:23] <tonyyarusso> There should be a button on the LP page like "Assign to me", go ahead and do that.
[10:23] <dqdev> ok
[10:23] <tonyyarusso> Do you magical fun stuff, then poke someone in here or send to the -motu mailing list when you have a fix to get someone to sponsor the upload
[10:24] <dqdev> right
[10:24] <dqdev> concerning this magical stuff
[10:24] <dqdev> and excuse my silly questioning
[10:24] <tonyyarusso> That depends on the bug - if it's code I'm useless ;)
[10:24] <dqdev> since I am not really an expert
[10:24] <dqdev> what's the line of work?
[10:24] <dqdev> do i download the source
[10:25] <dqdev> and try to find some mistakes there?
[10:25] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, apt-get source yourpackagename
[10:25] <tonyyarusso> Which bug?
[10:25] <dqdev> 105515
[10:25] <tonyyarusso> bug 105515
[10:25] <ubotu> Malone bug 105515 in supertux "Missing menu icon for superTux" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105515
[10:25] <dqdev> a very simple one
[10:25] <dqdev> exactly
[10:26] <tonyyarusso> Ah, very nice.
[10:26] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, you'll be concerned with the /debian directory of the source package only.
[10:26] <dqdev> ok
[10:26] <dqdev> so 1st step is download the source
[10:26] <tonyyarusso> All it takes is making an icon (I'd have to look up the size), putting it in there, and adding it to the desktop file
[10:26] <tonyyarusso> yep
[10:27] <somerville32> Who butchered the topic?
[10:27] <tonyyarusso> Assign it to yourself so nobody else duplicates your work in the meantime.
[10:27] <dqdev> nice directions tony montana - helped a lot
[10:27] <dqdev> ok, cool
[10:27] <tonyyarusso> (montana?)
[10:28] <dqdev> the film with al pacino
[10:28] <dqdev> tony montana
[10:29] <dqdev> when you say 'assign'
[10:29] <dqdev> you mean subscribe/?
[10:29] <tonyyarusso> Nope
[10:29] <tonyyarusso> Click the supertux (ubuntu) part under "Affects"
[10:29] <dqdev> i found it
[10:29] <dqdev> ok
[10:30] <tonyyarusso> It's an option in what drops down from that
[10:35] <pochu> somerville32: fixed ;)
[10:36] <somerville32> When are the archives going to open for Gutsy?
[10:36] <LaserJock> ok people
[10:36] <pochu> somerville32: they have to run the publisher
[10:36] <pochu> hi LaserJock
[10:37] <LaserJock> the momement you've all been waiting for is here
[10:37] <LaserJock> the Ponies are up
[10:37] <DktrKranz> really?
[10:38] <LaserJock> although since right now the DC seems slammed you might want to try a direct url: http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/second-semiannual-golden-pony-awards/
[10:38] <somerville32> Is it a pink pony?
[10:38] <LaserJock> no
[10:38] <LaserJock> it's a Golden Pony :-)
[10:39] <somerville32> Ah.
[10:39] <somerville32> A Golden Pink Pony?
[10:43] <pochu> LaserJock: funny :) just a side note: it's burgundavia, not burgundivia :)
[10:43] <pochu> or is it another joke? :)
[10:43] <LaserJock> no thanks
[10:43] <LaserJock> I always spell it wrong
[10:44] <pochu> oh, ok :)
[10:44] <somerville32> LaserJock, What about keybuck?
[10:44] <pochu> then, spell it burgunvidia :)
[10:44] <somerville32> He is obvisously the hottest male actor.
[10:45] <LaserJock> well, I could literally do hundreds of them
[10:46] <LaserJock> I just do a few for fun
[10:46] <somerville32> Indeed.
[10:46] <somerville32> I like it.
[10:48] <welshbyte> LaserJock: unless bddebian has lost weight, you misspelled "deity" :)
[10:49] <LaserJock> welshbyte: thanks, that's another one I can't seem to spell right
[10:49] <LaserJock> honest, I did go to school you guys ;-)
[10:54] <somerville32> lol
[10:55] <ajmitch> morning alll
[10:55] <LaserJock> mwuahaha
[10:55] <ajmitch> oh that's welcoming
[10:55] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ponies are up ;-)
[10:55] <ajmitch> LaserJock: thanks very much
[10:55] <ajmitch> I just saw it
[10:59] <sharms> ajmitch: I saw that kick last night, you are on my list of people to abuse ops on :)
[10:59] <sharms> yeah me too 
[11:00] <ajmitch> blame LaserJock 
[11:01] <ajmitch> he's the one being mean & cruel
[11:01] <sharms> no he has documentation work to do -- chop chop
[11:04] <sharms> I am stressing out today, I need to quit my current job because I have a better job that I agreed to go work for
[11:04] <sharms> but my current boss is really hard to deal with, and it wont be easy
[11:04] <sharms> this is my second time trying to quit
[11:04] <dqdev> it is the same with me trying to brake up with my gf :)
[11:05] <sharms> I work from home so I get to do it over the phone, but that almost makes it harder since I am intimidating in person
[11:06] <sharms> my game plan is to call him in 25 minutes, and say "I need to put in my 30 days notice, I am not happy with my current job"
[11:06] <sharms> and be vague and don't give him a chance to argue my points
[11:06] <sharms> any other advice?
[11:08] <sharms> bah fine throw me to the wolves
[11:09] <sacater> LaserJock: so, since the release, are bug reports flooding?
[11:09] <sacater> or is feisty bug free :D
[11:09] <sharms> I have got a few myself, sshfs + encfs, democracy-player
[11:10] <sharms> and there are a bunch of reports about quick buttons on laptops not working, and that feisty runs "slow"
[11:10] <jmg> heh
[11:10] <jmg> "runs slow"
[11:10] <sharms> yeah I havent noticed anything but I have been running it for a long time
[11:10] <sacater> im fine too
[11:10] <sharms> feisty + 1 gcc 4.2 really scares me though
[11:11] <sacater> anyone know when the dev version of gusty will be available
[11:11] <sacater> whoops
[11:11] <sacater> gutsy*
[11:11] <jmg> everything "runs slow"
[11:11] <sacater> dont like wind :P
[11:11] <sacater> jmg: fine for me
[11:11] <sharms> if they go with gcc 4.2 that is up to a 40% performance reduction
[11:11] <jmg> no i mean
[11:11] <jmg> its all slow
[11:11] <sacater> sharms: a good increase would be changing bootup bash to C#
[11:11] <sacater> much much much faster
[11:12] <lupine_85> sacater: no, I suggest we implement everything in BBC BASIC :p
[11:12] <jmg> sacater: just write a JIT compiler for bash code 
[11:12] <sharms> yeah what I am talking about affects every single program thougjh
[11:12] <sacater> all talk to Uber in #gentoo
[11:12] <sacater> he did it for gentoo
[11:12] <sacater> my mates laptop boots in 2 seconds
[11:12] <sacater> literally
[11:12] <sharms> spec?
[11:13] <sacater> ask him
[11:13] <Spec> 'eh?
[11:13] <sacater> his name is welp
[11:13] <sacater> gentoo dev
[11:13] <tonyyarusso> lol at the Golden Ponies
[11:13] <sharms> Spec: doh meant blueprint spec
[11:13] <Spec> :p
[11:13] <sacater> and ask Uber about bash << C'
[11:13] <sacater> c#*
[11:14] <tonyyarusso> ajmitch is a dinosaur?
[11:14] <jmg> OMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:16] <LaserJock> I particularlly enjoyed bddebian's award
[11:17] <sharms> LaserJock: where is my award for "best spec fanboy"
[11:17] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:17] <geser> LaserJock: is there a hi-res picture of the award?
[11:17] <LaserJock> no
[11:17] <LaserJock> I just grabbed it off of yahoo image search
[11:18] <Spec> sharms: it's my award.
[11:18] <ajmitch> tonyyarusso: according to LaserJock I am
[11:18] <sharms> In fact, in the weblog entry you could add the "best spec fanboy" and have it link directly to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/EnhancedBash
[11:18] <tonyyarusso> Excuse me, _yahoo_ image search?
[11:18] <sharms> I hear that it is getting a lot of team behind it
[11:18] <sharms> and its a "vista killer"
[11:18] <tonyyarusso> ajmitch: so that makes you what, 40?
[11:18] <sharms> steam rather
[11:18] <LaserJock> sharms: why don't you blog it :-)
[11:18] <LaserJock> Golden Ponies: Take 2
[11:18] <sharms> LaserJock: I hit my limit before people start flaming me
[11:18] <ajmitch> tonyyarusso: no, I'm apparantly just mean & bitter 
[11:18] <tonyyarusso> ah
[11:19] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: what about yahoo image search?
[11:19] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: Who still uses yahoo?  Google ftw!
[11:19] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:19] <LaserJock> my Home Page at home is still Yahoo
[11:24] <jmg> im confused
[11:24] <jmg> this guardian article seems to think xubuntu will install in 64mb of memory
[11:26] <ScottK> Isn't that what the xubuntu web site says is the minimum?
[11:27] <arejay> bug 107648
[11:27] <ubotu> Malone bug 107648 in Ubuntu "The Ubuntu community is insane" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107648
[11:27] <jmg> statement probably true
[11:28] <arejay> hrm.
[11:28] <Monk-e> Any core devs here?
[11:30] <somerville32> Monk-e, maybe.
[11:31] <somerville32> Is lp slow today too?
[11:31] <Monk-e> Guess I'll just shoot, bug 107813
[11:31] <ubotu> Malone bug 107813 in devmapper "Incompatible libdevmapper 1.02.08 (2006-07-17)(compat) and kernel driver" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107813
[11:31] <sacater> hey, does anyone mind if i make a sort of motu testing doc, questions about packages etc
[11:32] <sacater> package nameing system and such
[11:32] <sharms> sacater: talk with laserjock too, he is talking about doing some doc stuff
[11:32] <sacater> LaserJock: ?
[11:46] <LaserJock> sacater sharms: I was thinking of use Moodle to create a MOTU classes
[11:46] <superm1> LaserJock, when were you planning on hosting another class?
[11:47] <LaserJock> I'm doing 2 sessions of Packaging 101 next week for Open Week
[11:47] <superm1> ah okay
[11:47] <superm1> crimsun mentioned doing one on apport and retraces, any idea if that will be in the near future too?
[11:48] <LaserJock> we haven't formalized anything yet, I don't think
[11:50] <ajmitch> LaserJock: there's an open week?
[11:50] <LaserJock> starts Monday
[11:51] <ajmitch> shows how much I've been watching
[11:51] <ajmitch> or it just hasn't been publicised
[11:51] <LaserJock> the later
[11:51] <ajmitch> must be only the important people who take part :)
[11:51] <LaserJock> I didn't know about it until I was asked to do the sessions
[11:51] <LaserJock> and that was just a couple days ago
[11:51] <LaserJock> jono blogged about it today though
[11:53] <jmg> url to ponies?
[11:54] <LaserJock> hmm, does anybody actually *buy* Viagra by clicking on spam on sombodies blog?
[11:54] <LaserJock> jmg: planet.ubuntu.com
[11:54] <LaserJock> or laserjock.worldpress.com if you like
[11:54] <ajmitch> open week might be interesting
[11:54] <sharms> LaserJock: moodle looks pretty neat
[11:55] <jmg> LaserJock: apparently so
[11:55] <LaserJock> sharms: it might be cool if it isn't too difficult
[11:56] <LaserJock> sharms: I've got it set up on my server, trying to figure out how it works, etc.
[11:56] <LaserJock> I'd like to have like a mockup to show for UDS
[11:57] <jmg> how come Australia has a LoCo team?
[11:57] <ajmitch> why wouldn't it?
[11:57] <pochu> jmg: #ubuntu-au, afaik
[11:57] <jmg> oh, i thought it was a localisation team.
[11:57] <ajmitch> local community team
[11:58] <jmg> right
[11:58] <LaserJock> well, they need en_AU transtaltors too
[11:58] <ajmitch> localisation is just a part of what teams might do