[12:14] <mc44> jdong: the bug is accurate
[12:14] <mc44> :)
[12:14] <jdong> yeah it is :)
[12:14] <jdong> but we can't fix it
[12:14] <jdong> maybe they should require a backport from the development species
[12:14] <mc44> should be set to wontfix
[12:15] <gnomefreak> the OO.o guys maintain hunspell right?
[12:16] <pochu> sabdfl: ^ it looks like a bug for you ;)
[12:35] <ryan_> can someone kick the torrent tracker?
[12:35] <ryan_> it is refusing connections
[12:35] <jdong> haha DHT FTW!
[01:20] <rukuartic> <3 Folks, congratulations on another awesome release!
[01:32] <BenC> Can anyone help me figure out why make is rm'ing a stamp file in my debian/rules?
[01:33] <BenC> I got a target that deps on a stampfile, which has a rule to do something, and touches the stamp file, but then make does "rm stampfile"
[01:35] <ion_> If "target-foo" is requested and "target-foo" depends on "target-bar", make may very well remove target-bar after target-foo has been created.
[01:36] <BenC> foo-%: stamp-%
[01:36] <BenC>         @echo Made $*
[01:36] <BenC> stamp-%:
[01:36] <BenC>         touch $@
[01:36] <BenC> with that Makefile, "make foo-temp" removed stamp-temp
[01:36] <BenC> how can I make it not do that?
[01:38] <BenC> hmm, looks like I need ".PHONY: stamp-temp"
[01:38] <BenC> which sucks for a matching rule
[01:39] <BenC> wait, no, that just made it skip the rule
[01:39] <ion_> No, then stamp-temp is expected to be a rule that doesn't actually create a file stamp-temp.
[01:41] <ion_> .PRECIOUS : stamp-%
[01:42] <ion_> No, that isnt the correct one either.
[01:42] <BenC> seemed to work
[01:43] <ion_> Yes, but only as a side effect. It has a bit different semantics.
[01:43] <BenC> well, .PRECIOUS: stamp-temp does
[01:43] <ion_> This should be the correct one: .SECONDARY : stamp-temp
[01:45] <BenC> anyway I can do the same thing without knowing what possible %'s there could be ahead of time?
[01:45] <BenC> stamp-% doesn't work, but stamp-temp does
[01:45] <ion_> .PRECIOUS means never delete the target, even if its build failed, .SECONDARY means even if this target is deemed to be intermediary, dont delete it.
[01:46] <ion_> intermediate even.
[01:46] <ion_> Try .SECONDARY :
[01:46] <BenC> ah, that works
[01:46] <BenC> ion_: big thanks
[01:46] <ion_> yw.
[01:49] <BenC> ion_: got time for another question? :)
[01:49] <ion_> Sure.
[01:49] <BenC> foo-%: stamp-%
[01:49] <BenC> stamp-%:
[01:49] <BenC>         touch $@
[01:49] <BenC> If I just have that, "make foo-temp" says no rule to make target
[01:49] <BenC> I have to give commands for foo-%
[01:49] <BenC> like the echo I had before
[01:50] <ion_> Hmm
[01:52] <ion_> What is the purpose of the foo-% target if its just empty?
[01:53] <BenC> ion_: easier to type and remember "debian/rules build-generic" than "debian/rules debian/stamps/stamp-build-generic"
[02:42] <EricBig> hi... can someone spare a sec for me? 
[02:42] <pochu> !ask
[02:42] <ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[02:42] <pochu> :)
[02:42] <EricBig> i'm thinking to start a new project on uBuntu ... 
[02:42] <EricBig> in short, i want to hav a version of this that is usable for my mum
[02:43] <EricBig> but im' not a programmer
[02:43] <EricBig> so i want to know how and where should i start
[02:43] <EricBig> say to look for partners etc.
[02:43] <pochu> EricBig: ubuntu is usable by my grandma
[02:43] <shawarma> You need to figure out, why you believe it's not already usable by her.
[02:43] <pochu> so it should also be usable by your mother ;)
[02:44] <shawarma> What's stopping her?
[02:44] <EricBig> 3 words: two many buttons
[02:44] <EricBig> for all the OS today
[02:44] <EricBig> i think a proper OS for grandma should hv less than say 10 buttons
[02:44] <EricBig> i want to make it like an internet kiosk or something like that
[02:44] <EricBig> and can run on very very old laptops
[02:45] <EricBig> say pentum 2 300mhz + 64m ram equivilant
[02:45] <shawarma> An OS thatdoes less than 10 things seems rather useless to me.
[02:45] <Chipzz> EricBig: that's a no-go I think
[02:45] <pochu> then try xubuntu?
[02:45] <tonyyarusso> EricBig: Xubuntu?
[02:45] <pochu> !xubuntu | EricBig 
[02:45] <ubotu> EricBig: xubuntu is Ubuntu with Xfce instead of Gnome. For more info, see http://www.xubuntu.org and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/ - To install from Ubuntu: "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop". | For support, see #xubuntu | See also: !ubuntu and !xubuntu-channels
[02:45] <Chipzz> EricBig: I used to run debian (slimmed down) on a p2 233 with 64MB ram
[02:46] <Chipzz> and that's with a lot less daemons than ubuntu
[02:46] <Chipzz> didn't work
[02:46] <tonyyarusso> 64 megs is pretty slim, so if XFCE doesn't cut it try IceWM, fluxbox, enlightenment, or others
[02:46] <Chipzz> firefox (or epiphany for that matter) just eats memory
[02:46] <EricBig> sorry. im really knew to uBuntu...  in fact, i'm a graduate student studying technology policy and one of the things i discovered along my research is that in general technology is too much for average ppl in terms of desktop computing
[02:47] <Chipzz> pochu: I doubt xubuntu would help much there ;)
[02:47] <pochu> Chipzz: maybe msdos? :)
[02:47] <EricBig> i'm thinkin to hav an interface that only hav say 5-6 big buttons in the middle of it : E-mail, Web, Music, Movie that's it
[02:48] <EricBig> thanks ubotu, im checking xbuntu now
[02:48] <EricBig> think about all the web 2.0 stuff and how google start to moving everything desektop into browser.
[02:48] <Chipzz> EricBig: ubotu is a bot, and doesn't care about you thanking him ;;)
[02:49] <Chipzz> +much
[02:49] <EricBig> its my first time in IRC, sorry for being an idiot
[02:49] <Chipzz> EricBig: no offence meant ;)
[02:49] <pochu> EricBig: we have always had a first time :)
[02:50] <Chipzz> pochu: on 64MB of RAM, even X + twm + firefox will grind to a halt pretty fast ;P
[02:50] <tonyyarusso> dillo ?
[02:50] <EricBig> i'm thinkin to slim down everything ... 
[02:50] <tonyyarusso> links2 -g?
[02:50] <Chipzz> tonyyarusso: with proper javascript etc support.. ?
[02:50] <EricBig> my ultimate goal is to challenge the OLPC project
[02:50] <tonyyarusso> Chipzz: I think dillo can, not sure if links2 does or not
[02:51] <EricBig> so a slim-down version of uBuntu - which is still a decent OS (unlike the OLPC sugar, which i think is er... not so decent), to run on a very cheap hardware platform
[02:51] <Chipzz> tonyyarusso: EricBig is referring I think to stuff like gmail etc; doubt that would work properly on anything except firefox/konq/opera
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> Chipzz: You could probably compile Firefox with some options to make it less featureful but smaller
[02:52] <EricBig> is it ok to post a link for one of my blog entries here? is it against the channel rule?
[02:52] <pochu> or use epiphany
[02:53] <tonyyarusso> no idea what rules are here...not one of my usual realms
[02:53] <EricBig> tonnyy - that's basically what i 'm thinking, to recompile everything and kick-out features that will never use by old grandma
[02:53] <Chipzz> tonyyarusso: still, IMHO firefox still grossly leaks a sh*tload of resources (like server-side pixmaps etc...)
[02:53] <Chipzz> I have my doubts how far you would get
[02:54] <Chipzz> and the mozilla developers refuse to acknowledge the problem and keeping referring to it as a "feature" doesn't help much :P
[02:54] <Chipzz> s/refuse/refusing/
[02:54] <EricBig> umm.. here's a post i wrote a while back: http://blog.sinnovate.net/2007/04/some-fundamental-thoughts-on-public-top.html 
[02:57] <EricBig> umm.. just want to ask, will IRC channel be a proper way to looking for developers that are willing to start a project ?
[02:57] <bhale> not really
[02:57] <bhale> your call for help will be off the screen in a few minutes
[02:57] <EricBig> so where should i go ? any suggestions thx bhale.
[02:57] <Chipzz> bhale: arguably ;)
[02:57] <EricBig> maybe forums / discussion boards? 
[02:58] <bhale> if you'd like
[02:58] <Chipzz> EricBig: a lot depends on your timing; what bhale means is that irc is a very volatile medium ;)
[02:58] <EricBig> is there any place for discussions for new ideas / projects like mine in the ubuntu / linux community?
[02:58] <bhale> but development is tracked on the wiki and launchpad
[02:58] <bhale> bring your own advertising
[02:59] <bhale> !blueprints
[02:59] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about blueprints - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[02:59] <bhale> !specs
[02:59] <EricBig> bhale: advertising? you mean a full project proposal? i will do that, but don't know exactly how should I do it
[02:59] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about specs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[02:59] <bhale> ubotu: you are dead to me.
[03:01] <EricBig> and, once i've come up with a Blue-print, where should I post it ---- that's the problem ... how uBuntu people normally deal with this
[03:01] <bhale> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications
[03:02] <Chipzz> EricBig: btw, if I may say something; you're actually proposing 2 different things:
[03:02] <Chipzz> 1) create a very simple GUI with only 6 buttons
[03:02] <Chipzz> 2) create a distro that runs on 64MB of RAM
[03:02] <EricBig> Chipzz: EXACTLY
[03:03] <Chipzz> make sure to propose these as 2 different blueprints; they're 2 different and seperate goals
[03:03] <EricBig> and of course there is a way to get more buttoms out, say after entering admin username and pwd .
[03:03] <Chipzz> one which may be implemented a lot faster than the other
[03:04] <EricBig> i know, i think 1) is most important actually, and i guess you are saying 1) is easier right?
[03:04] <Chipzz> easier, but not per se one that would be accepted
[03:04] <EricBig> because 2) is largely because of the hardware cost, which can be overcome by time & price drops
[03:05] <Chipzz> also, 2) is something very general (reducing needed resources) which is a global goal which people are working on all the time
[03:06] <EricBig> but my general feeling is the latest distro of uBuntu (7.x) is big and powerful, and it inevitiablly put more pressures on the hardware?
[03:06] <Chipzz> not necessarily correct
[03:06] <EricBig> or do you mean developers do the kernal optimization and feature adding at same time?
[03:06] <EricBig> so the weight doesnt jump up too quickly?
[03:06] <Chipzz> for example, a lot of improvements have been made to pango, which makes font rendering faster
[03:07] <Fujitsu> EricBig: It should be no more resource-intensive than 6.10.
[03:07] <Chipzz> EricBig: most of that kind of stuff is being done upstream anyway
[03:07] <EricBig> right. 
[03:09] <EricBig> chipzz, can i hav your contact method like an e-mail address? or does IRC support something like add buddy in ICQ? 
[03:09] <Chipzz> EricBig: I'm not really an ubuntu developper; mostly just lurking here ;)
[03:10] <EricBig> umm... i just need some one to help me start with.. coz i have been mostly working on user study and technology policy side and never touch the development field ...
[03:11] <ion_> ericbig: Has Ubuntu been called uBuntu somewhere? Im just curious.
[03:13] <Chipzz> EricBig: the best thing you can do actually is proposing blueprints really (after investigating their feasability)
[03:14] <EricBig> icon_ sorry im a mac user so got used to decaptialize first letter in every word :P
[03:14] <micahcowan> When is a simple patch preferable to a debdiff? For instance, in the case of packages that get heavy development and are either synced often or get frequent bugfixes, is it better to supply a plain diff and let the package maintainers decide how it should fall with ordering/package-version?
[03:14] <Chipzz> EricBig: the button idea is not a bad idea per se; but it has to fit in with what ubuntu developers think is a good idea
[03:15] <Chipzz> EricBig: but it's something that you could very easily implement with pygtk really; I'ld say about 100 lines of code
[03:15] <EricBig> Chipzz: is Launchpad only for ubuntu or its for general opensource softare
[03:16] <Chipzz> EricBig: it's meant for general opensource software, but there aren't a lot of projects actually using it as such (though there are some)
[03:16] <EricBig> but it's more thant that... because the less buttons you allows user to click, the 'smarter' the system must be, they will have to 'actively' understand what users want without asking users to click lots of buttons and enter too many lines of command
[03:17] <EricBig> Chipzz: and it must not be annoying at the same time ( a bad example is the clippy in ms office)
[03:18] <Chipzz> EricBig: a good question you would have to ask yourself is: is the button interface actually needed, and why is it needed
[03:18] <EricBig> Chipzz: things like WYSIWYG and drag-n-drop for everything is a must.
[03:18] <Chipzz> because gnome goes to great lengths to create a very easy and non-complicated menu structure
[03:19] <Chipzz> if it fails to do that, maybe something is wrong with the gnome menu structure
[03:20] <Chipzz> so the right question to ask may not be: "do we need a buttons-interface?" but instead "what's wrong with the current menu so my mum can't find the email-program easily?"
[03:20] <EricBig> Chipzz: i think, if you mark down the buttons you click on a GUI OS, say windows, and their frequencies, you will discover for most of the time people are only using a Word Processor, music player, web browser, email client and chat-client. that makes other buttons less useful and a waste of desktop space and system resrouce
[03:21] <Chipzz> EricBig: there's the novell slab thingy, which keeps recently used menu entries in the 1st level menu like the windows xp menu does
[03:22] <EricBigLineDropp> sorry closed the wrong window  -- i'm using a web IRC 
[03:23] <EricBigLineDropp> .
[03:25] <Chipzz> EricBigLineDropp: anyway, I would recommend taking a look at the current specs and see how they are written (use cases etc)
[03:25] <Chipzz> EricBigLineDropp: learn from that how you should write your own proposal
[03:26] <EricBigLineDropp> Chipzz: you mean the specs on launchpad right?
[03:26] <Chipzz> EricBigLineDropp: uhu
[03:27] <Chipzz> EricBigLineDropp: what I mean is, argue for why you're proposing something, consider alternatives, use cases, etc
[03:27] <EricBigLineDropp> Chipzz: the philosophy behind is to make the GUI / OS as simple as possible, while sacrificing user's choices. For example, only allow user to use one e-mail client, say Thunderbird, and that's it. Although there might be pros and coins between different apps, average user won't care. the problem of today's mainstream OS is that there are too many options, too many configurations and too many things to
[03:28] <EricBigLineDropp> Chipzz: there is nothing wrong for the existing menu structure, just they don't need to be there if most people don't use it for the most of the time.
 but anyway thanks a lot for the advice... i will go back and write a full spec / proposal and see what happens next.
[03:29] <Chipzz> EricBigLineDropp: btw. you may want to pay a visit to #ubuntu-desktop too, and propose your idea there
[03:30] <Chipzz> (also, at an hour at which more developers are online ;))
[03:31] <jmg> hey all, anyone here involved in UMC (MediaCenter)?
 thx... gotta go... bb
[03:57] <conn> hi mjg59, did you have time to try Tim's modified ieee80211softmac.ko module, re: bug 103768 ?
[03:57] <ubotu> Malone bug 103768 in linux-source-2.6.20 "softmac and network-manager cite unreconcilable differences" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103768
[04:56] <wasabi__> Yay. Compiz and stuff works on my laptop, out of hte box. 100% free
[04:59] <voraistos> Hi
[04:59] <voraistos> there is something very disturbing i want to talk about
[04:59] <wasabi__> Does it have anything to do with ubuntu development?
[04:59] <voraistos> but on #ubuntu, i dunno whats going on, but people are talking about changing their wallpaper ?!!!
[04:59] <voraistos> yep, kind of
[04:59] <voraistos> or bug maybe
[05:00] <voraistos> i dunno
[05:00] <wasabi__> Bugs go in the bug tracker...
[05:00] <voraistos> its about the laptop over heating problems
[05:00] <voraistos> i think its a bug or a virus
[05:01] <voraistos> i have this "old" laptop
[05:01] <voraistos> i has always been running fine on ubuntu
[05:01] <voraistos> no over heating, performances 100 times better than windows, extended battery life, etc
[05:02] <voraistos> but, since i am a bad person and dont treat my hardware very well, its not in superb condition
[05:02] <mjg59> voraistos: If you ahve something that you believe to be a bug, please file it in the bug tracker, not here
[05:02] <voraistos> hmm
[05:02] <voraistos> yeah, but i dunno how to do that, and, i have no idea if its a bug or not
[05:03] <mjg59> bugs.ubuntu.com
[05:03] <Flannel> Guys, where is update-manager-core?
[05:03] <Fujitsu> Flannel: The ISOs are inconsistent with the archive.
[05:03] <Fujitsu> Flannel: That's what I was just talking about :(
[05:03] <Fujitsu> You'll have to use rsync.
[05:04] <Flannel> Not for me, I'm not upgrading.  But just wondering what to file a bug against
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Flannel: there's nothing you can really file a bug against, but it's inconvenient to not be able to use jigdo.
[05:05] <voraistos> there are some vague bug reports about it, but they are not taken seriously it seems
[05:05] <Flannel> Fujitsu: eh, the website should be.
[05:06] <wasabi__> About this archive thing. Are you suggesting that the ISO of feisty has packages not in the archive?
[05:06] <Fujitsu> Flannel: Pardon?
[05:06] <Flannel> Fujitsu: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading
[05:06] <Flannel> Besides the fact that the nav on top of that page points to the wiki page still, but that's a second bug
[05:06] <wasabi__> It's perhaps somewhat reasonable to think... which mirror of hte archive are you looking in, for instance.
[05:06] <Fujitsu> wasabi__: Indeed. a new update-manager was published for Kubuntu, which meant that the one in the Ubuntu ISOs was removed. That is wrong.
[05:06] <wasabi__> Oh, jigdo.
[05:06] <wasabi__> I see.
[05:07] <wasabi__> That does seem like an issue. Shouldn't a new upgrade to that go to -updates?
[05:07] <Fujitsu> wasabi__: No, because it was before Feisty was released, but after the latest Ubuntu ISOs were created.
[05:08] <wasabi__> So somebody needs to rebuild the ISOs?
[05:08] <Fujitsu> ISOs can't really be rebuilt at this stage.
[05:08] <mjg59> Or re-publish that binary to the archive
[05:08] <Fujitsu> mjg59: That's what I asked earlier.
[05:08] <mjg59> Yes
[05:08] <Fujitsu> I suppose we wait for Mithrandir or so for that.
[05:09] <mjg59> Yeah. He ought to be up in a few hours.
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Noted.
[05:09] <Fujitsu> I hope Soyuz actually supports doing that sort of thing.
[05:11] <voraistos> i bought a new laptop thinking mine was broken... I bought one from dell (didnt receive it yet), and i was just checking if ubuntu was running nice out of the box or not... when i found a huge thread about over heating issues. Strangely somebody described the same problem as i have.. The laptop crashes after a while, disk stops spinning because it seems the chipset fucked up. when i reboot the hdd is not detected anym
[05:11] <voraistos> ore, and to use it right now i had to cap cpu freq at 600 mhz. Could this be kernel related ? or something else ?
[05:12] <mjg59> voraistos: Please file a bug, or if one already exists add a comment. This isn't the appropriate place to raise issues of this nature.
[05:12] <voraistos> i just want to know how to make this high priority ?
[05:12] <wasabi__> Things become high priority on their own.
[05:13] <Fujitsu> voraistos: File a bug. It will be looked at.
[05:13] <mjg59> The appropriate developers will flag it as high priority if they think it's appropriate
[05:13] <voraistos> yeah, well, people destroyed their brand new hardware because of that !
[05:13] <mjg59> voraistos: And talking about it here will do nothing to help that
[05:14] <voraistos> i dunno... you guys are the devs, maybe you heard about that :P
[05:14] <voraistos> (i mean the problem :) )
[05:14] <Fujitsu> That sounds like pretty stupid hardware if it dies like that.
[05:15] <wasabi__> I actually have a laptop suseptable to that, and yes.
[05:15] <wasabi__> Early generiation ibook g3. If the cpu stays on while it's shut, it'll melt the LCD. ;)
[05:15] <wasabi__> So, if your suspend is busted!
[05:15] <mjg59> voraistos: Nobody here is going to tell you anything you haven't already been told
[05:15] <Fujitsu> wasabi__: That's what ibooks are for.
[05:26] <bimberi> Hi, http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading recommends installing and using update-manager-core to upgrade servers to Feisty.  However...
[05:27] <bimberi> !info update-manager-core edgy
[05:27] <ubotu> Package update-manager-core does not exist in edgy
[05:29] <bimberi> I'll report it against update-manager and ubuntu-website
[05:35] <ajmitch> bimberi: is it not in edgy-updates?
[05:37] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager-core seems to indicate that it made it there
[05:38] <bimberi> ajmitch: hmmk, I'm going by ubotu, searches on packages.ubuntu.com and a couple of questions in #ubuntu
[05:43] <Fujitsu> !info update-manager-core edgy-updates
[05:43] <ubotu> update-manager-core: manage release upgrades. In component main, is standard. Version 1:0.59.18 (feisty), package size 25 kB, installed size 1812 kB
[05:43] <Fujitsu> There we go, bimberi.
[05:45] <bimberi> Fujitsu: ah, thanks. Hm, there's been 4 questions in the last 12 hours.
[05:46] <ajmitch> hopefully the -updates binary got to all the mirrors
[05:50] <bimberi> If I see it asked again I'll ask them to check that they have edgy-updates enabled
[05:56] <Nergar> ok, who helped build ubuntu???
[05:56] <slop> me
[05:56] <Nergar> all of you made a great job!
[05:57] <slop> it was mostly me
[05:57] <slop> thanks
[05:57] <Nergar> now this is an upgrade!! not like xp-vista
[05:57] <Nergar> lol
[05:57] <Nergar> feisty is way higher than what i expected!, and i expected a lot
[05:58] <Nergar> congrats to all!
[05:58] <Nergar> later
[05:58] <ion_> Haha
[05:58] <slop> :p
[06:00] <ajmitch> ah, enthusiastic users
[06:17] <xq> wow, grub might drive me to insanity
[06:49] <tepsipakki> hm, the libx11 security update broke rdesktop on dapper
[06:52] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki: I heard about it breaking if running in 8-bit or similar, but it might not be the same thing.
[06:52] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: I heard that too
[06:52] <fabbione> tepsipakki: do you have a bug number?
[06:52] <tepsipakki> yes, it's fixed in sid
[06:53] <fabbione> morning btw
[06:53] <Fujitsu> Hey fabbione.
[06:53] <tepsipakki> yeah, good morning
[06:53] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[06:54] <tepsipakki> fabbione: bug 107780
[06:54] <ubotu> Malone bug 107780 in libx11 "rdesktop segmentation fault after libX11-6 update" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107780
[06:55] <fabbione> tepsipakki: who did the security update?
[06:56] <tepsipakki> me and keescook
[06:56] <fabbione> for the win
[06:56] <fabbione> can i see the patch please?
[06:56] <fabbione> also.. subscribe kees to it
[06:57] <tepsipakki> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=418098
[06:57] <ubotu> Debian bug 418098 in rdesktop "rdesktop segfault with libx11-6 1.0.3-7" [Unknown,Open]  
[06:58] <fabbione> no i want to see the patch to libx11
[06:58] <tepsipakki> ah, a sec
[06:58] <fabbione> the fix to rdesktop is simple
[07:00] <tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/libx11.debdiff
[07:00] <tepsipakki> that's what got in feisty
[07:00] <tepsipakki> kees applied the others
[07:02] <tepsipakki> um, seems that the rdesktop-patch already got in feisty :)
[07:02] <tepsipakki> bug 104322
[07:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 104322 in plptools "[apport]  ncpd crashed with SIGSEGV in pthread_join()" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104322
[07:03] <tepsipakki> no, bug 104332
[07:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 104332 in rdesktop "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104332
[07:03] <tepsipakki> sorry, it's waiting for -updates
[07:04] <tepsipakki> i'll mark the other bugs as duplicate of that one
[07:04] <tepsipakki> since it clearly is the parent
[07:04] <fabbione> the patch looks safe.. tho a strace or dbg would be more helpful
[07:06] <Fujitsu> Might want to add dapper/edgy tasks to that bug.
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Hm, and gutsy I guess.
[07:11] <fabbione> gutsy will get it automatically at merge time with debian
[07:11] <fabbione> don't bother
[07:12] <Fujitsu> Ah, true, it's just a rebuild at the moment.
[07:19] <tepsipakki> oops, bug 107909
[07:19] <ubotu> Malone bug 107909 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "Files corrupt in ubuntu-7.04-dvd-i386.iso" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107909
[07:19] <Fujitsu> sounds pleasant.
[07:20] <fabbione> hmm i can check that
[07:20] <fabbione> but i find it strange
[07:21] <tepsipakki> yeah, not necessarily valid
[07:21] <fabbione> he might have downloaded the file.. checked the md5sum (good) and then the burn was bad
[07:23] <fabbione> md5sum matches..
[07:26] <Fujitsu> Hm, that's not a good sign.
[07:28] <tepsipakki> does the techboard have a mail-address?
[07:31] <ajmitch> tepsipakki: there is a list, I can't find the details though
[07:31] <fabbione> whops
[07:31] <fabbione> wrong hit :)
[07:32] <ajmitch> tepsipakki: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
[07:32] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: cool, thanks
[07:33] <ajmitch> has the list, looks like it's just not publically listed on lists.u.c
[07:33] <Fujitsu> fabbione: Is the ISO bad, or is the application he's using to view it braindead?
[07:33] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: no wonder ;)
[07:33] <fabbione> Fujitsu: it's checking now... i did reboot my machine instead of vmware by mistake
[07:33] <Fujitsu> fabbione: Haha, smooth.
[07:52] <fabbione> looks good here all the way
[07:52] <fabbione> bad burn imgo
[07:52] <fabbione> imho
[07:53] <tepsipakki> fabbione: thanks for testing!
[07:54] <fabbione> np
[07:55] <fabbione> keescook: hey dude
[07:55] <keescook> libx11 was busted?
[07:56] <fabbione> keescook: no .. libx11 is ok. it's the other package that needs love
[07:56] <fabbione> rdesktop?
[07:56] <keescook> ah.  okay.  somewhat of a relief.  :P
[07:56] <keescook> rdesktop is in main though... they're not playing nicely?
[07:58] <fabbione> keescook: no with the libx11 change.. basically libx11 change did exploit a rdesktop bug
[07:58] <fabbione> keescook: it's a one line patch ... tho it needs to be applied
[07:58] <keescook> is there a fix for rdesktop?  Sounds like a regression that needs fixing.  :(
[07:58] <fabbione> yes.. there is a fix
[07:59] <fabbione> it's all in the bugs linked by tepsipakki 
[07:59] <keescook> okay, cool.
[07:59] <fabbione> and yes it a partial regression ...
[07:59] <fabbione> fixing a to find a bug in b is not what i exactly consider a regression but bad code in b
[08:00] <keescook> sure, but a security update rendered another part of the system broken, so it needs to be fixed.  :)
[08:02] <fabbione> yeps we agree :)
[08:05] <jernst> siretart: hi, any idea when the fix for #104332 will be released ? any progress with the SRU process ?
[08:08] <keescook> jernst: it's in progress still.  if you're on dapper/edgy you can force a downgrade of libx11
[08:09] <jernst> keescook: Thanks. I'm on feisty, I have three users depending on rdesktop on my ltsp server that are complaining
[08:10] <keescook> jernst: ah, less of a simple fix for that.  you can try this:
[08:12] <keescook> cd /tmp; sudo apt-get build-dep rdesktop; sudo apt-get fakeroot build-essential devscripts; apt-get source rdesktop; cd rdesktop-*; dch -n 'fix libx11 crashes'; curl -s 'http://librarian.launchpad.net/7300958/rdesktop-xcreateimage2.patch' | patch -p0; debuild -uc -us
[08:13] <keescook> that should build a new rdesktop*.deb package for you; which you can install with   sudo dpkg -i ../rdesktop*.deb
[08:13] <Mithrandir> second apt-get call is missing "install"
[08:13] <jernst> thanks I will try that and let you know
[08:14] <keescook> Mithrandir: ah, thanks
[08:19] <fabbione> keescook: gcc wrapper = bad :)
[08:19] <keescook> fabbione: agreed!  :)
[08:20] <fabbione> keescook: i think we need something like gcc-defaults to install an /etc/ubuntu-gcc/default.conf
[08:20] <fabbione> keescook: and debhelper to source it.. or something
[08:20] <fabbione> keescook: that will wide spread to at least 90% of packages in the archive if not more
[08:21] <keescook> fabbione: sure, I'm all for it; since I'm not a toolchain expert, I just need people to tell me what to try and I'll test it.  :)
[08:21] <fabbione> keescook: but we need to make sure we can override the settings
[08:21] <pitti> Good morning
[08:21] <keescook> right.  hiya pitti!
[08:21] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:21] <fabbione> keescook: i don't think it's a toolchain issue here, but a packaging one
[08:21] <fabbione> keescook: what we need to make sure from gcc is to install proper defaults in that file for each $arch
[08:21] <keescook> fabbione: well, true.  I'm no packaging expert either.  ;)
[08:22] <keescook> I'd like to be able to be able to pick between some preset defaults "regular" "security" "crazy secure" etc
[08:22] <fabbione> keescook: i hope this isn't the only job you have :)
[08:22] <jernst> keescook: the .deb has been created successfully, I installed it remotely on the server and I'm now waiting that the people working with rdesktop try it. Thanks for that
[08:23] <keescook> jernst: great!  I hope that works.  :)
[08:24] <keescook> fabbione: my job is never done.  :)
[08:24] <fabbione> jernst: worth testing before people will look for you with a bat
[08:25] <pitti> keescook, fabbione: I didn't see the start of the discussion, you mean to make gcc look for some external conffiles which modify the profile? that does not seem to make sense to me TBH
[08:26] <keescook> pitti: yeah, I think fabbione just took my u-dev ml post and brought it up here.
[08:26] <fabbione> pitti: ubuntu-devel@
[08:26] <pitti> I don't see how to solve it without a gcc wrapper that is used by packages; after all, it *is* a different compiler (behaviour) than vanilla 'gcc'
[08:26] <fabbione> pitti: well it depends how you want to look at it
[08:27] <pitti> fabbione: well, of course we can make gcc itself look for $DEB_BUILD_CFLAGS or so
[08:27] <fabbione> pitti: i think the biggest motivator to have a conf file is to avoid to set the default in gcc for testing
[08:27] <fabbione> pitti: that too...
[08:27] <pitti> fabbione: ah, well, the conffile could check the environment if it is really a script
[08:27] <pitti> fabbione: i. e. turn the environment into a gcc profile?
[08:27] <fabbione> pitti: that's my best guess from kees email
[08:28] <jernst> fabbione: by the way rdesktop is unasable currently so it can't be worst
[08:28] <pitti> fabbione: right, we cannot hardcode those as defaults in the profile
[08:29] <fabbione> pitti: IMHO it can also be useful to archive rebuild.. like we decide to test -foo option.. we can do that without having to change gcc defaults and if it works, we will already know what packages will FTBFS and how.. it will allow a bunch of pre-testing options that at the moment can be more annoying to achieve
[08:29] <fabbione> pitti: never mind that we can also change the defaults without having to upload a gcc
[08:30] <pitti> fabbione: right, you are preaching to the choir :)
[08:30] <fabbione> pitti: ehhe
[08:30] <pitti> I just wasn't sure how to connect the env vars to the gcc profile
[08:30] <fabbione> i see what kees wants.. we just need to make sure to implement it right at the first go
[08:30] <fabbione> yeah that's what he is really asking
[08:31] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[08:31] <fabbione> pitti: and given our previous experiences with gcc wrappers...
[08:31] <pitti> fabbione: and then we need to plan that with Debian; there's no way that we can change 15.000 packages for it
[08:31] <fabbione> pitti: exactly
[08:32] <pitti> fabbione: well, for testing it might be good enough to preliminary patch dpkg-buildpackage IMHO
[08:32] <fabbione> it needs to be external to the packaging but still possible to override
[08:32] <pitti> fabbione: i. e. have dpkg-buildpackage set those to our defaults
[08:33] <fabbione> pitti: planning with Debian means talking to doko.. so that's somehow easy :)
[08:33] <pitti> fabbione: that way we lose reproducability with 'debian/rules build', but *shrug* :)
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Hi Mithrandir.
[08:33] <pitti> fabbione: well, no, it means talking to all DDs
[08:33] <Mithrandir> hi Fujitsu
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: We have a little bit of a problem.
[08:34] <pitti> Fujitsu: do we want to know?
[08:34] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: let me hear.
[08:34] <Fujitsu> jigdo is useless of Feisty images, because of the new update-manager(-core) that was uploaded for Kubuntu.
[08:34] <Fujitsu> *on
[08:34] <Mithrandir> hm
[08:34] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ^^ ; thoughts?
[08:34] <pitti> erk
[08:34] <Fujitsu> The version on the ISOs was thus removed, and... well...
[08:34] <pitti> can't we put it back somehow?
[08:35] <Fujitsu> pitti: That is what I was hoping.
[08:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: slightly hard.
[08:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: I know :/
[08:35] <Fujitsu> A little manual hackery shouldn't hurt too much.
[08:35] <pitti> well, it's hard to convince Soyuz to not remove it again
[08:36] <Fujitsu> Won't it only be removed on another upload of it to Feisty's release pocket?
[08:36] <pitti> Fujitsu: no, I believe the cleanup runs daily
[08:36] <Fujitsu> I thought it was changed to Superceded when a new upload occurred.
[08:36] <pitti> Fujitsu: and packages in different pockets are not superseded
[08:36] <Fujitsu> pitti: Surely if it is republished, there won't be another upload to set it back to superseded, so it won't be removed?
[08:37] <Mithrandir> I'm wondering if we can force-include it in the .jigdo file somehow
[08:37] <Mithrandir> that'd be a better solution
[08:37] <Mithrandir> .jigdo/.template
[08:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: in fact, if you just rebuild the template, since it won't find the deb, won't that happen automatically?
[08:37] <Fujitsu> That works too.
[08:38] <pitti> i. e. with the classic jigdo-file, not with the cdimage jigdo feature
[08:38] <Mithrandir> pitti: I don't know jigdo well enough to answer yes or no to that question, but I suspect so.
[08:38] <Mithrandir> yeah
[08:38] <pitti> erm, wait
[08:38] <pitti> does that mean we ship a .deb on the CD which we don't have the source for?
[08:38] <Fujitsu> pitti: Indeed, that is correct. Eek.
[08:38] <pitti> thats...bad
[08:39] <Mithrandir> no, it's on the source CDs
[08:39] <Fujitsu> Well, it's on LP, but that's likely to be cleaned at some point.
[08:39] <Mithrandir> source CDs are per derivative.
[08:39] <fabbione> pitti: all the sources are stored on  LP anyway..
[08:40] <Fujitsu> fabbione: They're cleanup up sometimes, so not there forever.
[08:40] <fabbione> pitti: for each single upload. that should be enough to fulfill GPL requirements of making the source available
[08:40] <pitti> fabbione: true, but not really in the archive any more
[08:40] <fabbione> pitti: i don't think it matters.. they are still available
[08:40] <pitti> Fujitsu: fabio's right, all old sources are preserved
[08:40] <fabbione> Fujitsu: in LP they are not deleted afaik
[08:40] <Mithrandir> and we own the copyright so it's not an actual problem.  We're free to ship GPL-ed binaries without source (but we shouldn't).
[08:40] <Fujitsu> pitti: I'm sure I heard from an LP guy that they are cleaned.
[08:41] <pitti> Fujitsu: from archive., yes
[08:41] <Mithrandir> anyway, it's on the source CDs, so it's not a problem.
[08:41] <fabbione> exactly
[08:41] <pitti> Fujitsu: check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager, you can click on all past versions and will see the package
[08:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: well, we are free to ship binaries without source xor GPLed binaries, right :)
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Mar 16 14:24:47 <lifeless>      LaserJock: why not give ubuntu archive urls ?
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Mar 16 14:25:16 <LaserJock>     lifeless: because archive packages come and go
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Mar 16 14:25:30 <LaserJock>     we want access to every source package ever :-)
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Mar 16 14:25:34 <lifeless>      LaserJock: the librarian has garbage collection too though
[08:42] <pitti> Fujitsu: I guess the only thing that keeps them alive is precisely the +source package :)
[08:43] <lifeless> you called?
[08:44] <Fujitsu> pitti: What do you mean?
[08:45] <pitti> Fujitsu: (leaving area of definite knowledge) I believe that the librarian deletes files which are not referenced from anywhere any more
[08:45] <pitti> Fujitsu: but since the +source package refers to them, their reference count never drops to zero
[08:45] <lifeless> thats right
[08:45] <pitti> s/package/package page/
[08:45] <lifeless> I know that historical size is a concern
[08:46] <pitti> lifeless: well, it's a life safer sometimes
[08:46] <Fujitsu> pitti: So they will grow indefinitely... Hm..
[08:46] <pitti> I used it more than once to get a previous version
[08:46] <lifeless> so theres no 'contract' if you like that these will be kept forever at this point, only that what is currently published will always have its source available
[08:46] <lifeless> but the soyuz devs know more
[08:46] <Lathiat> AIUI your supposed to kepe the source available for X years from ship date arent you?
[08:47] <Fujitsu> That release has to stick around for at least 18 months + some years.
[08:47] <elmo> no
[08:47] <lifeless> Lathiat: for the written offer clause only.
[08:47] <elmo> the X years stuff is one option, and it's not one we use
[08:47] <elmo> we use 'ship source with binary'
[08:47] <Lathiat> ah ok
[08:47] <lifeless> elmo: isn't the CD cover a written offer ?
[08:47] <elmo> and we do it by having our archive management stuff (dak or soyuz) do source reference counting
[08:47] <Lathiat> except that the source isnt on the default CD
[08:47] <Lathiat> so if you shipit me a cd...
[08:47] <elmo> lifeless: yes, but that's independent of this discussion, and even that relies on the source reference counting
[08:48] <Lathiat> right
[08:48] <lifeless> elmo: right it does. Your 'no' was a little unqualified though ;)
[08:48] <elmo> well, look these are two different things
[08:48] <elmo> Canonical has to be able to provide the source to someone because of shipit
[08:48] <lifeless> anyhow, I know this stuff; ciao.
[08:48] <elmo> but that doesn't mean ubuntu.com has to make it available
[08:49] <Lathiat> right, ok
[08:50] <elmo> but anyway, I don't know what the context was, but please don't use librarian URLs for archive files
[08:51] <elmo> that's not going to scale well at all
[08:51] <elmo> as long as a binary is published on archive.ubuntu.com, there will be a valid (albeit unreferenced in Sources.gz) corresponding url for the source, also on archive.ubuntu.com
[08:51] <Fujitsu> elmo: In this case it isn't published any more, but is on ISOs.
[08:52] <lifeless> elmo: that wasn't the context at all :). It was about librarian garbage collection.
[08:52] <pitti> elmo: original problem was that ubuntu CDs have an older version of update-manager than the kubuntu CDs, and the older version has gone from archive
[08:52] <elmo> Fujitsu: err, what?
[08:52] <elmo> whine
[08:52] <elmo> seriously?
[08:52] <Fujitsu> elmo: A new update-manager was uploaded to Feisty after the Ubuntu ISOs were rolled.
[08:52] <lifeless> should it not have gone into f-s-u ?
[08:52] <Fujitsu> Kubuntu was rerolled, as it needed that fix... but Ubuntu now has unpublished binaries on the ISO.
[08:52] <pitti> I raised the GPL problem, but was pointed to the still existing source, so I *phew*'ed
[08:52] <lifeless> ah
[08:53] <elmo> fan-TASTIC
[08:53] <Fujitsu> pitti: I suggest you revoke that phew for now.
[08:53] <Fujitsu> elmo: that's right.
[08:53] <pitti> Fujitsu: we still have the broken .jigdo problem, but that's less delicate
[08:53] <pitti> Fujitsu: please do bring it up
[08:53] <lifeless> Fujitsu: we take GPL very seriously
[08:57] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: no, they don't.
[08:57] <Mithrandir> we have the bloody source ISOs so it's fine.
[08:57] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Oh, true.
[08:58] <Mithrandir> it's not great, but it's fine.
[09:01] <pitti> Fujitsu: btw, in this case we are triple-sure, we also have the source in bzr
[09:02] <lifeless> in fact, bzr is the preferred form for modification ;)
[09:02] <pitti> bzr++
[09:03] <lifeless> nono, just bzr ;)
[09:03] <Mithrandir> lifeless: sssh!  Or we'll be required to ship the .bzr trees to everything as well.
[09:03] <ion_> Lets write a new VCS. Well call it bzr++. :-)
[09:03] <lifeless> Mithrandir: and thats bad how ?
[09:03] <lifeless> :)
[09:04] <dholbach> good morning
[09:04] <ion_> Hi
[09:04] <dholbach> hey ion_
[09:05] <Mithrandir> lifeless: depends.. if we suddenly built ooo from a bzr import, I imagine we could make debian-cd explode due to not being able to fit a source package on a CD, even alone.
[09:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: *shrug* source hard disks
[09:05] <mjg59> Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnngh.
[09:06] <ajmitch> hey dholbach 
[09:06] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[09:06] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: seriously, your concern is fine and the jigdo problem is a real problem we need to fix.  I'd much rather have people report problems that can be dismissed than not having them reported in the first place.
[09:06] <mjg59> Providing the preferred form of modification for the Nelson Mandella video would be bad enough...
[09:06] <Mithrandir> hiya Matthew.
[09:06] <Mithrandir> mjg59: but is it under the GPL?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> it could easily be licenced under the BSD licence in which case we're fine.
[09:06] <Mithrandir> or some CC licence
[09:06] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Yes, but I completely ignored the fact that there are source CDs and similar.
[09:07] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Ah, but source = preferred form of modification. Judging by debian-legal.
[09:07] <Mithrandir> mjg59: luckily, we don't have debian-legal here.
[09:08] <lifeless> Mithrandir: the .bzr should be a small multiple of the ooo source tree in tarball form
[09:08] <lifeless> Mithrandir: its already compressed.
[09:08] <mjg59> Anyway. Bed now.
[09:08] <lifeless> night
[09:08] <Mithrandir> lifeless: a small multiple, like 2-3x?
[09:08] <mjg59> (I'm -8 hours this week, if anyone wants to get in touch)
[09:08] <Fujitsu> lifeless: `Need to get 309MB of source archives.'
[09:08] <Fujitsu> lifeless: Still not insubstantial :P
[09:09] <lifeless> Mithrandir: often less, except for pathological cases
[09:09] <lifeless> anyhow, HistoryHorizons for the win
[09:09] <lifeless> ship only a few 100k more.
[09:11] <Fujitsu> lifeless: When is that feature arriving?
[09:11] <Mithrandir> lifeless: OOo is an ancient project with tons and tons of commits, so I wouldn't be surprised if the .bzr repo would end up being quite large.  And even if not, I'd like not to have to ship stuff like the .git tree for the linux kernel since it's fairly big.
[09:11] <lifeless> when its written?
[09:11] <lifeless> Mithrandir: right. HH.
[09:18] <\sh> moins
[10:00] <tepsipakki> keescook: another borken software segfault due to libx11 update, this time it's proprietary: IDL
[10:05] <tepsipakki> keescook: bug 107945
[10:05] <ubotu> Malone bug 107945 in libx11 "Security update of libx11-6 causes IDL segfault" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107945
[10:06] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki: Ouch, my father won't be pleased :(
[10:10] <tepsipakki> Fujitsu: yep, I'll mail the company about it
[10:11] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki: That's the only way to go, I guess.
[11:09] <Stonekeeper> hi. not sure if this is the right channel, but I've found 2 things with wireless in feisty: 1. Network Settings->Wireless only allows you to insert a WEP key and 2. Typing in my password to a discovered network doesn't work, but if i set it up manually it does. Cheers.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> Stonekeeper: use launchpad, not IRC for bug reports.
[11:10] <Stonekeeper> ok! never used that before. What's the URL?
[11:10] <Mithrandir> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug is probably what you want.
[11:11] <Stonekeeper> thanks
[11:11] <Mithrandir> np
[12:17] <doko> mvo: the question in 104716 to you was, if font packages should run fc-cache with or without the -s option
[12:18] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: hmm. should be possible to regenerate the jigdo somehow. I think. It's a lot easier when you're in the process of building the image ...
[12:19] <cjwatson> our jigdo files are actually generated by mkisofs, y'see
[12:19] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, but we should be able to just download the ISO, point it at an up-to-date mirror and then generate the jigdo file the old way.
[12:19] <Mithrandir> and then replace it in the tree
[12:20] <cjwatson> yeah, theoretically
[12:20] <cjwatson> I'll give it a try
[12:20] <mvo> doko: I haven't investigated this closely but my gut-feeling is that "-s" is a good idea and that some of the failures with fonts are releasted to the fact that we don't use it
[12:20] <Mithrandir> cheers.
[12:21] <mvo> doko: or rather, that some packages use it and some don't 
[12:21] <cjwatson> TBH I'd almost rather figure out how to hex-edit it into the .template :)
[12:22] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ew.  I think just regenerating it is easier, and that's how it's traditionally done so I suspect it's not very error-prone?
[12:22] <cjwatson> surely it's just dd'ing update-manager-core and update-manager into the right place and removing them from the .jigdo
[12:42] <Riddell> "Kubuntu daily CD health check  No problems found!"  yay
[12:50] <cjwatson> Riddell: one would hope so at this point ;)
[12:50] <cjwatson> I'll turn the cron jobs off until gutsy CD building starts
[12:52] <doko> cjwatson, seb128: http://python.org/sf/1703592 has the somewhat expected answers
[12:55] <seb128> doko: hum, k
[01:07] <cjwatson> doko: followed up
[01:07] <cjwatson> ("practicality beats purity" - but I doubt there is anything to be gained by quoting bits of the zen of python back and forward)
[01:13] <pitti> erk, Malone seems to be broken entirely, is that just me?
[01:14] <cjwatson> yes, just commented on that in #canonical
[01:15] <cjwatson> come to that, https://launchpad.net/ -> OperationalError
[01:22] <cjwatson> ah, it's back
[01:55] <pitti> jdub: happy birthday!!!
[01:55] <ogra> jdub, yay, happy bday !
[02:02] <seb128> jdub: happy birthday!
[02:17] <StevenK> jono: Love the blog post.
[02:36] <dholbach> HAPPY BIRTHDAY jdub!!!
[02:37] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
[02:37] <dholbach> heya Hobbsee
[02:37] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:45] <mvo> jdub: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
[02:48] <jsgotangco> whoa!
[02:53] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: decent progress on jigdo fixing - I've regenerated ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386 and am working on the others using the same method
[02:53] <siretart> pitti: cjwatson: ok to upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rdesktop/+bug/104332/comments/16?
[02:53] <ubotu> Malone bug 104332 in rdesktop "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)" [High,Confirmed]  
[02:53] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok, cheers.
[02:53] <bluefoxicy> heh
[02:53] <cjwatson> I'm using jigdo-file make-template, merging in the old jigdo, and then fixing up by hand
[02:53] <bluefoxicy> We are giggling about Ubuntu's servers not serving Feisty yesterday due to DDOS-Scale load
[02:53] <cjwatson> for minimal diff, basically
[02:53] <bluefoxicy> because some of us used the bittorrent
[02:53] <bluefoxicy> which reacts the opposite way; a billion users == ultimate download speed :D
[02:54] <cjwatson> siretart: yes
[02:54] <siretart> cheers
[02:54] <cjwatson> I've not reviewed it in detail but it looks appropriate for an SRU
[02:55] <siretart> I wanted to upload it to feisty directly, but was to late :(
[02:55] <pitti> siretart: looks innocent enough
[02:56] <siretart> and is approved by upstream (he's sitting next room to me)
[03:02] <dholbach> mneptok: cool mugshot in LP ;-)
[03:02] <dholbach> and lots of people in the bugsquad: http://launchpad.net/~bugsquad/+mugshots :)
[03:05] <pitti> dholbach: nice, +mugshots  :)
[03:09] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee :)
[03:09] <Hobbsee> heya fabbione!
[03:11] <jsgotangco> haha
[03:11] <j0nas`> gentleman.. (and ladies).. are there known issues with the partitioner on the feisty install disc?
[03:11] <j0nas`> i get a cryptic error message: "??? ???"
[03:11] <cjwatson> j0nas`: not that I know of, please file a bug on partman-base attaching /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman
[03:11] <cjwatson> you can use "save debug logs" from the installer main menu to extract those
[03:12] <j0nas`> how to get the log files?  can i get a shell from the install disc?
[03:12] <j0nas`> oh right. :)
[03:12] <cjwatson> or 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb' and you can scp them out
[03:13] <j0nas`> k brb im going to look into this
[03:13] <j0nas`> thanks
[03:29] <bddebian> Heya
[04:12] <robertj> is anyone here interested in a possible solution to the "why doesn't samba work" (did you add a samba password) problem?
[04:16] <seb128> robertj: what problem is that? you mean the "you need to add an smb user to share something"?
[04:16] <seb128> pitti: do you know if the feisty task on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/hwdb-client/+bug/105510 is correct or if it should be closed?
[04:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 105510 in hwdb-client "hardware database notification has poor ui" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[04:17] <pitti> seb128: right, it can go away since we disabled it entirely
[04:17] <seb128> pitti: ok, closing it then
[04:18] <robertj> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSambaIntegrationSpec <-
[04:19] <bddebian> Is Gutsy open yet, is Gutsy open yet??...
[04:19] <seb128> hi bddebian ;)
[04:19] <bddebian> Heh, hello seb128 :-)
[04:19] <seb128> robertj: hum
[04:20] <cjwatson> bddebian: getting there
[04:20] <seb128> robertj: I was rather thinking using nautilus-share and net usershare
[04:20] <bddebian> cjwatson: Sorry, I'm joking.  I'm pretty much out of commish until about July :'-(
[04:20] <ogra> bddebian, no, we're still not finished shovelling all the gutsy backports into the archive :P
[04:20] <bddebian> ogra: :)
[04:21] <cjwatson> lp_archive@drescher:~$ q -s gutsy -Q unapproved info
[04:21] <cjwatson> Listing ubuntu/gutsy (UNAPPROVED) 8/8
[04:21] <pitti> cjwatson: ! yay
[04:21] <ogra> hooray
[04:21] <robertj> seb128: the big issue is that people aren't setting smbpasswds
[04:24] <robertj> does that seem like a workable idea? does it seem sane?
[04:27] <seb128> robertj: http://gentoo.ovibes.net/nautilus-share/mediawiki-1.4.4/index.php/Accueil
[04:27] <seb128> robertj: its uses the samba "net usershare" and it doesn't need to add any user
[04:28] <robertj> I personally dislike security = share, and I know the feeling is common around #samba
[04:28] <seb128> robertj: I think that's what NDL is using
[04:28] <seb128> robertj: that's not security = share, that's a new samba thing
[04:31] <robertj> seb128: so how does that void creating samba users?
[04:31] <robertj> err avoid 
[04:33] <seb128> robertj: it's done by nautilus-sendto using net usershare
[04:33] <seb128> if your user is member of the samba group it can add samba shares
[04:33] <seb128> and require an username and password for them
[04:33] <robertj> yes, thats fine but what about other users that need to access it
[04:33] <seb128> ?
[04:34] <seb128> give them the username and password you used
[04:34] <robertj> seb128: is that per-share?
[04:35] <seb128> I need to look on how it works exactly
[04:35] <seb128> but it should be
[04:35] <seb128> the usual way you share thing is right click on a directory and share it
[04:36] <robertj> seb128: the problem is if you try to enforce permissions samba can't auth users without you giving them per-user passwords again
[04:36] <robertj> and most orgs won't get by with per-share passwords
[04:37] <robertj> and without that you have fundamentally the same problems as you have with a security = share samba share
[04:38] <seb128> what is wrong with having a password for a share?
[04:38] <robertj> seb128: because then you end up needing two interfaces for medium businesses and home users
[04:38] <seb128> what do medium businesses need?
[04:39] <robertj> they need each user to have their own password so you can log access
[04:39] <robertj> and medium-large businesses also need a structure that integrated with their SSO, which pam gives you for free
[04:40] <robertj> so if you have pam hash smb passwords you can join your smb machine to ads or samba4 and everyone will live happily ever after
[04:40] <seb128> so you basically want to add every system user to the samba users list?
[04:40] <robertj> seb128: sorry i confused that a bit
[04:40] <robertj> up until the point you join a directory
[04:40] <robertj> so before then I do want to add every user
[04:41] <seb128> k
[04:41] <robertj> and if you use authtool to switch to a directory then you would want it to edit that portion of pam out
[04:41] <robertj> so the big win is if you have a decidedly medium business
[04:41] <seb128> I mentioned samba shares on the list of things that would be nice to fix next cycle
[04:42] <seb128> so I guess we will discuss it at next UDS
[04:42] <robertj> and you have a computer with 6 users on it
[04:42] <robertj> and you think "ok, I want to make the spreadsheet available to my employees, but be able to tell if someone screws up who it was"
[04:43] <robertj> so if the smb users are auto-created you can add samba through Add/Remove and the only thing you need to do is uncomment the homes directory and add writabe = yes and restart samba
[04:43] <robertj> and you don't have to call mary in from home to put in her password, and you don't have to ask mary what her password is, or give her another password
[04:44] <robertj> and if you add another 30-50 users you don't have to keep dual-entering passwords, or syncing passwords, or end up sharing a password with 50 users
[04:46] <robertj> worst-case scenario...you turn that machine into a directory server that doesn't
[04:46] <robertj> doesn't run SMB, and you end up with a million hashed passwords you don't need, but that's really far-fetched ;)
[04:53] <pitti> siretart: rdesktop -> it should have a maintainer: field change
[04:53] <Hobbsee> hiya pitti 
[04:53] <pitti> hey Hobbsee 
[04:55] <seb128> robertj: k, thank you for the details on that, we will discuss the options available
[04:55] <pitti> siretart: well, the .debs will be ok, so let's not worry about it too much
[04:55] <robertj> seb128: but do vandalize https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSambaIntegrationSpec with any ideas/comments/thoughts
[04:56] <seb128> robertj: we will get one wiki page for the spec, if that's not this one I'll add the URL on it
[04:57] <robertj> seb128: np, just as long as it gets fixed ;)
[04:58] <robertj> I was one of the many who slash'd and burned various iterations of the EasyCodecInstallation* hierarchy, I just accept it as part of the process
[04:59] <robertj> enabling [homes]  seems to be a special use case
[05:00] <robertj> I would say quietly enable it when /home is shared but that sucks if your home dir isn't /home
[05:00] <robertj> or your home's parent
[05:03] <robertj> [printers]  and [print$]  also seem like they are worth considering. the [profiles]  and other shares related to domain controllers don't need to be exposed there and [cdrom]  probably's isn't worth the trouble really
[05:06] <siretart> pitti: I can do it for the -updates uploads, I wanted to keep the diff minimal though. I wasn't sure
[05:07] <siretart> btw, can I login to ubuntuforums.org with my lp password?
[05:07] <pitti> siretart: right, don't worry
[05:07] <siretart> ok
[05:33] <micahcowan> What happens, release+1 development-wise, after a launch? Is a straight copy-over of feisty to gutsy repositories done, and when is that usually finished (and gutsy repos opened, and development can begin)?
[05:34] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: pretty much.  the first stuff is the toolchain, but they started doing that towards the end of feisty, so it should get done quicker
[05:35] <micahcowan> Hobbsee, what constitutes the toolchain? I'm assuming all of core and universe are carried over at some point (and then later potentially merged with Debian)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: the stuff in build-essential, and the stuff marked as essential
[05:35] <Hobbsee> the really core stuff
[05:36] <pochu> micahcowan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyPlusOneToolchainRoadmap
[05:37] <cjwatson> glibc, binutils, gcc
[05:37] <micahcowan> Thanks pochu, hobbsee
[05:37] <cjwatson> essential isn't toolchain per se - by toolchain we basically mean the GNU development toolchain
[05:38] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:38] <cjwatson> we're in the middle of this - doko's uploaded initial toolchain versions, and we're just waiting for the buildd operator to wake up at this point (he's in .au)
[05:38] <Hobbsee> i thoguht it all counted
[05:38] <Hobbsee> bah.  it's not 2am yet.  wake him up.
[05:38] <micahcowan> Does development for gutsy usually start out as simply pbuilder stuff, then (since most of the OS isn't there yet), and if so, when does it tend to move to actual development within the OS itself?
[05:38] <cjwatson> the OS is there, we have feisty
[05:39] <cjwatson> feisty gets copied to gutsy to start with
[05:39] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: yes, although there are hacks for pbuilder for testing that things work.  as soon as it's stablish, people will move to gutsy
[05:39] <micahcowan> okay, that's part of what I'm asking.
[05:39] <micahcowan> That's been accomplished already (the copying)?
[05:39] <cjwatson> yes, that was done a few hours back
[05:40] <cjwatson> archive.ubuntu.com is being hammered though so it hasn't been successfully mirrored yet
[05:40] <pochu> And is the repo opened? :)
[05:40] <robertj> seb128: do we wanna have one big monolithic spec for samba integration though if we can do smaller specs that don't block?
[05:40] <cjwatson> pochu: still frozen until the toolchain is in
[05:40] <pochu> cjwatson: k, ty
[05:40] <cjwatson> fear not, it'll be announced ;)
[05:40] <robertj> btw, anyone got throughput stats on archive?
[05:40] <seb128> robertj: having a spec doesn't seem to be too complicated
[05:41] <seb128> robertj: we can describe several changes to do on it
[05:41] <micahcowan> Do a lot of devels tend to have installs of both the current (for usability) and next (for devel) releases on their machines? Or do many devs tend to prefer virtual machine installs for the devel until it gets dependable?
[05:41] <cjwatson> it should work once the buildd chroots are created, but we prefer to get the toolchain through first so that we don't have to have stuff rebuilt
[05:41] <micahcowan> (Sorry if I'm asking a volume of questions more common to a six-year-old child; guess I just never followed this train of thought before)
[05:42] <cjwatson> a virtual machine install sounds like a lot of effort, I wouldn't bother with that
[05:42] <cjwatson> some folks dual-boot, some just go all-out and trust to ability to recover :)
[05:42] <micahcowan> cjwatson, I'd do the latter, but the rest of my family probably wouldn't appreciate it when things break :)
[05:42] <cjwatson> I tend to go all-out because working on the installer tends to give you plenty of experience with putting systems together from the ground up
[05:43] <micahcowan> OTOH, I don't think I bothered with a separate /home partition, so that'd need adjusting...
[05:43] <cjwatson> you don't actually need to run gutsy in order to work on it for the initial round of merges, but it does help to be able to test at least some things
[05:43] <robertj> seb128: its not the spec, its finding people to implement it that's the hard part ;)
[05:44] <micahcowan> Sure: you could pbuild all the way 'til release; but you can't find what's actually broken without running it :)
[05:44] <cjwatson> quite so
[05:44] <seb128> robertj: well, the work is the same if you split it or not
[05:46] <robertj> seb128: then i'd say manage perceptions and spec small weekend-sized tasks :)
[05:46] <micahcowan> I'd like to see pbuilder installed with setup for multiple distros by default, so you don't have to go through the manual setup anymore. I may write a spec to that effect.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: it's already got example docs on how to do that
[05:47] <seb128> robertj: let's discuss what we wants to do, then we can split tasks, etc
[05:47] <pitti> argh, forgot to sub to gutsy-changes@
[05:47] <micahcowan> Hobbsee, yes, I know: but it shouldn't. It should be a couple lines in the shell, instead of copying a (buggy: I just made some adjustments on the wiki) script and copying/editing files: it's all automatable, and it's not like it's a corner use-case
[05:50] <micahcowan> BTW: I'm planning on replying to the "texlive" post on ubuntu-devel-discuss; but I wasn't sure if ubuntu-motu might be more a appropriate forum to which to move it?
[05:50] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: *shrug*
[05:50] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: both are developers stuff, devel-discuss tends to ahve the crack filled ideas
[05:50] <robertj> seb128: ok, this is anathema, but here is another question, is there some way we could ask users if they wanted to open shares admin if they add it through add/remove/
[05:51] <micahcowan> I'll leave it there, then.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> micahcowan: and most wont be subscribed to -motu
[05:51] <seb128> robertj: what do you mean?
[05:52] <micahcowan> Hobbsee, mm, good point.
[05:53] <robertj> seb128: nm, samba doesn't show in Add/Remove
[05:59] <robertj> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSambaIntegrationSpec now has a beautiful mockup of hte extensive proposed changes to shares-admin
[05:59] <seb128> robertj: nice drawing :p
[06:00] <robertj> thanks, I credit my skills to omni-graffle
[06:00] <robertj> it makes it so each to produce professional results that you realize that it doesn't help
[06:15] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: how do you build it sans toolchain?  Oh, I forgot, you're Colin. :-P
[06:16] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I don't mind building it with feisty's toolchain for testing
[06:16] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: do we need Colinfacts now?
[06:16] <cjwatson> all I'm doing is merging and adding gutsy to the syntax highlighting
[06:16] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: pondering it.
[06:18] <cjwatson> after that I think all the development tools aside from the toolchain that I care about will be gutsy-friendly and I can just install them all on this laptop and be happy. ;-)
[06:18] <Mithrandir> yeah, I should probably do emacs too, or at least the debian mode for it.
[06:20] <pitti> can I do vim? :)
[06:20] <Mithrandir> I think Colin just did
[06:20] <pitti> ah, splendid
[06:20] <cjwatson> sorry ;-)
[06:20] <pitti> right, he did vim for feisty, too
[06:20] <cjwatson> haven't quite yet, testing a build first to make sure I don't like kill people's editor
[06:21] <pitti> so traditionally I should upload the mutt merge first
[06:21] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: everybody knows the real editor is ed anyway.
[06:21] <cjwatson> the benefit of the editor wars is that it's hard to kill *everyone's* editor
[06:21] <Treenaks> as long as you don't break ar + tar, we'll manage :P
[06:22] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: and if he does, we'll still manage.
[06:22] <pitti> dchroot -c feisty vim foo.txt :)
[06:22] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: good point
[06:22] <Mithrandir> heck, worst case I can do ar and tar with dd, though I'd like not to.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> gzip is slightly worse, though.
[06:23] <cjwatson> well, doko's doing the binutils merge, so ar would be his fault, and I wasn't planning on doing tar. :)
[06:23] <Mithrandir> yeah
[06:23] <ogra> is someoune mergig the MLs or do we need to subscribe manually to -changes ? 
[06:23] <cjwatson> in fact, tar is a sync
[06:24] <Mithrandir> ogra: you need to subscribe manually.
[06:24] <Mithrandir> it'll all be in the "opening gutsy" email I'm going to send out when we have a toolchain.
[06:25] <codingmaster> hello people :)
[06:25] <codingmaster> for the public interest: Google SoC 2007
[06:25] <codingmaster> Ubuntu Firewall Configuration
[06:25] <codingmaster> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-soc/2007-April/000022.html
[06:27] <pitti> codingmaster: I wish you all the best for it!
[06:27] <codingmaster> thanks martin :)
[06:27] <codingmaster> muahahahaha :p
[06:27] <codingmaster> ;)
[06:27] <codingmaster> IMHO the project needs ASAP a good name :)
[06:29] <cjwatson> uriel
[06:30] <pitti> He "stands at the Gate of Eden with a fiery sword," [2]  or as the angel who "watches over thunder and terror."
[06:30] <pitti> sweet :)
[06:30] <cjwatson> (traditionally, the archangel who guards the Gate of Eden with a fiery sword)
[06:30] <codingmaster> nice :)
[06:31] <pitti> kraal (the name of the previous SoC project) was quite nice as well, from Xhosa heritage
[06:31] <cjwatson> codingmaster: ^--
[06:31] <codingmaster> @my nickname
[06:31] <codingmaster> ha ha ha
[06:31] <ogra> perfect
[06:31] <codingmaster> It is about 10 years ago, I chose that name
[06:31] <codingmaster> :p
[06:31] <pitti> codingmaster: apt-cache search uriel is empty, too
[06:31] <cjwatson> also Milton describes Uriel as the "sharpest sighted spirit in all of Heaven"
[06:32] <codingmaster> I was a kid then: lucky me, that I did not choose a stupid name :)
[06:32] <codingmaster> the ideas are good :)
[06:32] <codingmaster> I will add them to the wiki later
[06:33] <pitti> oh, merges.ubuntu.com is down, too bad
[06:36] <elena_g> hello all, I've installed mozilla-firefox-locale-ka-ge module but mu Firefox continues to be in english.
[06:36] <pitti> elena_g: 'This is an empty transitional package to ensure a clean upgrade
[06:36] <pitti>  process. You can safely remove this package after installation.'
[06:36] <pitti> This language is unavailable for the current Firefox version.
[06:36] <pitti> elena_g: sorry :/
[06:37] <elena_g> piti this language is present here: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all.html
[06:37] <elena_g> pitti, sorry...
[06:37] <elena_g> - 1(p) :D
[06:38] <elena_g> may I install from here ?
[06:38] <pitti> elena_g: right, you can
[06:39] <elena_g> pitti, and what about Georgian language support in the next browsers realise ?
[06:40] <elena_g> 3.0 or 4.0
[06:40] <elena_g> :P
[06:40] <pitti> elena_g: depends, if there is someone who provides translations we can include them
[06:40] <elena_g> pitti, thanks... 
[06:41] <elena_g> I have 2.0.3 version
[06:41] <elena_g> pitti, have a nice afternoon! :)
[06:41] <elena_g> Ciao ciao!
[06:41] <pitti> elena_g: bye
[06:48] <nox-Hand> Hey
[06:48] <nox-Hand> In the -14 and -15 kernel (the two newest upgrades) I cannot boot Ubuntu
[06:49] <nox-Hand> And I am told it might be because of some drivers that were removed?
[06:49] <nox-Hand> Can I somewhere check that?
[07:19] <elmo> so, umm, when I press brightness up on this x60, the display turns off
[07:19] <elmo> what's the most likely/suitable package as a victim for a bug report
[07:20] <ogra> g-p-m :(
[07:20] <ogra> or hal
[07:20] <mjg59> Kernel
[07:20] <mjg59> (probably)
[07:21] <mjg59> Does it happen at the console?
[07:21] <elmo> will check
[07:21] <elmo> it's just rebooting
[07:21] <pitti>         <match key="/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer:system.hardware.version" string="ThinkPad X60">
[07:21] <pitti>           <merge key="laptop_panel.brightness_in_hardware" type="bool">true</merge>
[07:21] <pitti>         </match>
[07:21] <pitti> so if it's a hal bug, then the bug is that it doesn't properly set this rule for your model
[07:22] <ogra> pitti, there are pther ules that match on LENOVO iirc
[07:22] <ogra> *other
[07:22] <pitti> yep
[07:22] <pitti> elmo: can you please followup to bug 61184?
[07:22] <ubotu> Malone bug 61184 in hal "Screen brightness buttons don't work properly on Thinkpad Z61T" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61184
[07:22] <mjg59> elmo: If you blacklist the video module, it'll probably work. It seems related to newer BIOSes which actually implement the acpi video extension properly
[07:23] <mjg59> pitti: No, I think this bug is entirely separate
[07:23] <pitti> elmo: that's a collection of various thinkpad brightness quirks
[07:23] <pitti> mjg59: oh, ok
[07:23] <mjg59> elmo: But I have no hardware that implements this stuff, so...
[07:23] <elmo> it's horribly sluggish to react to the brightness up/down on the console
[07:23] <mjg59> It's very hard to figure out what on earth is going on
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: can I do anything to help remote debug this?
[07:24] <elmo> mjg59: alternatively, it's "demo" hardware, I could have it loan to you next time it's free...
[07:26] <elmo> I love how we load asus_acpi on an IBM x60
[07:26] <kylem> elmo, bring it to uds?
[07:27] <elmo> kylem: mm, can't, it'll be in use then
[07:27] <kylem> bummer.
[07:27] <elmo> to be fair, this is the first thing I've found that doesn't work
[07:27] <elmo> of course, I found it out as I was explaining what it great laptop it was to silbs, *sigh*
[07:28] <kylem> eep.
[07:28] <mjg59> elmo: Can you try rmmodding video and see if it's happier?
[07:28] <elmo> oh, you said 'video' why did I read that as 'blacklight'
[07:28] <elmo> or backlight even
[07:29] <elmo> mjg59: that got me a BUG \o/
[07:30] <mjg59> elmo: Winning.
[07:30] <mjg59> elmo: Blacklist it and reboot?
[07:30] <elmo> grr
[07:31] <elmo> I have no wired intarweb either
[07:32] <elmo> kylem: why is that e1000 ignore invalid checksums switch not on by default?
[07:32] <mjg59> elmo: Gah, that was supposed to be fixed in newer BIOSes
[07:32] <kylem> because it's a bad idea....
[07:33] <mjg59> Intel's failure to fix certain types of bug is somewhat infuriating
[07:33] <elmo> kylem: in what way?
[07:33] <kylem> and can cause serious problems that are much worse than people having to add a command line option.
[07:33] <elmo> kylem: this laptop is brand new
[07:33] <kylem> elmo, silent corruption of data?
[07:34] <elmo> eh, but intel themselves are shipping machines with nics in this state?
[07:34] <kylem> perhaps for gutsy we could dmi-whitelist certain known-fucked machines.
[07:34] <kylem> elmo, yessir.
[07:35] <elmo> meh, well, h9 of intel and lenovo and everyone else involved
[07:35] <kylem> i need to re-prod monteal about it.
[07:35] <elmo> kylem: worth reporting this BUG?
[07:35] <mjg59> e1000 supports powering down the hardware when there's no cable plugged in
[07:35] <mjg59> The driver does nothing to power it up before checking the eeprom state
[07:35] <mjg59> = loss
[07:35] <mjg59> = loss that's been documented for over a year
[07:35] <kylem> winningest.
[07:36] <kylem> elmo, the video one? sure.
[07:36] <mjg59> There's nothing wrong with the hardware config, it's the software that's at fault
[07:36] <kylem> mjg59, yes, which is why ignoring the eeprom warning universally is a bad idea.
[07:37] <mjg59> Yeah
[07:37] <Treenaks> mjg59: software as in driver, or as in firmware?
[07:39] <kylem> iz driver boog, likely.
[07:40] <mjg59> Driver, yeah
[08:03] <elmo> mjg59: interesting
[08:04] <elmo> mjg59: blacklisting video fixes the 'brightness up turns off my display' problem in X
[08:04] <mjg59> Ok. Eez kernel boog.
[08:04] <elmo> mjg59: but in both X and console it's still very sluggish to respond to both
[08:04] <mjg59> elmo: Hm. That's more of a pain.
[08:04] <mjg59> But the brightness change is done in hardware...
[08:05] <jdub> pitti, ogra, seb128, dholbach, mvo: um, fuck you all! ;-)
[08:05] <elmo> and also the brightness up/down meter doesn't work
[08:06] <jdub> hey elmo
[08:06] <elmo> hi jdub
[08:07] <pochu> elmo: do you mean the applet?
[08:07] <elmo> pochu: the little thing that pops up in the centre  of the screen
[08:08] <pochu> Though I have an Acer, dunno if that matters
[08:08] <mjg59> Yeah, it matters
[08:09] <pochu> :)
[08:09] <elmo> it seems to take about a second to process each key press
[08:09] <elmo> but only for brightness, changing volume, f..e is fine
[08:10] <pochu> bug 81339
[08:10] <ubotu> Malone bug 81339 in hal "Cannot get laptop panel brightness" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81339
[08:11] <sharms> If I need to map a comport to a tcp/ip device, is this possible?
[08:12] <elmo> oh, interesting
[08:12] <elmo> if I add the brightness applet to the slider, it works flawlessly
[08:12] <elmo> as in, no slag
[08:12] <Spads> (when using the software slider)
[08:12] <elmo> err, no lag
[08:12] <ogra> is comport a noun ?
[08:13] <Spads> ogra: verb
[08:13] <Spads> ogra: oh, it can be a noun too
[08:13] <cjwatson> "COM port"
[08:13] <ogra> right, thought so :)
[08:13] <sharms> cjwatson: I am having a bit of trouble finding anyone who has done it before
[08:13] <cjwatson> probably makes more sense to DOS rejects
[08:14] <cjwatson> sharms: (sorry, I've no idea)
[08:15] <tepsipakki> the X60 brightness-bug has been reported already a while ago
[08:16] <tepsipakki> bug 87028 :)
[08:16] <ubotu> Malone bug 87028 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Thinkpad X60s (also T60, R60): changing the screen brightness blanks screen" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87028
[08:16] <cjwatson> sharms: do you mean you want to make a network connection over a physical serial port, or you want to make some other kind of network connection look like it's a serial port?
[08:16] <kylem> heh, SLIP.
[08:17] <sharms> cjwatson: I need a local app to connect to the serial port, which really forwards to a network device
[08:17] <cjwatson> and the local app is talking what kind of protocol?
[08:18] <sharms> I am not quite sure, its complicated because it is a windows program ran through wine, so it just needs a comport, and then I have a device which is networked which is hooked up to the actual device
[08:19] <kylem> what you're saying is that you have a device on a network, and a windows program that exposes a serial interface to the device console (over the network)
[08:19] <kylem> you likely need a windows .dll for that.
[08:19] <kylem> er, i thought "driver" and typed "dll" odd.
[08:19] <sharms> yeah I was hoping to just find some easy way to tell linux to redirect the serial device to the network
[08:20] <kylem> things don't work like that. :)
[08:20] <Ng> network character devices would be very handy, but don't seem to exist
[08:20] <kylem> you could likely snoop the windows program running to figure out the protocol.
[08:22] <pitti> hey bryce!
[08:22] <cjwatson> bryce: welcome
[08:23] <bddebian> whoa
[08:23] <bddebian> sucker..
[08:23] <bddebian> err uhm, I mean Welcome!! :)
[08:24] <sharms> yeah it looks like the network serial device uses tcp/ip and telnet
[08:24] <kylem> sharms, is it a rocketport device?
[08:24] <sharms> its a "systech"
[08:25] <kylem> ahok.
[08:25] <kylem> one of these decades i'll work on a linux driver for the rocketport ethernet serial doodads.
[08:28] <sharms> looks like I might be able to do this over rtelnet
[08:29] <sharms> woo just found a package bug in  socks4-clients
[08:39] <tepsipakki> oh we have an official X maintainer now? that's cool :)
[08:46] <bryce> heya pitti and cjwatson
[09:03] <geser> if someone is interested: bug #108232 has a debdiff for a merged devscripts for gutsy
[09:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 108232 in devscripts "[Merge]  devscripts 2.10.3ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108232
[09:04] <cjwatson> geser: I already uploaded it
[09:05] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: care to fix mdebdiff too, when you're at it?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> s/when/while/
[09:06] <cjwatson> done, and new-source
[09:06] <geser> cjwatson: should I reject my merge bug then?
[09:06] <cjwatson> I fixed madison-lite config earlier
[09:06] <cjwatson> geser: I just marked it fix-released (bit of a lie, but)
[09:07] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: is there any reason why we don't have it all in a sourcable bit of shell somewhere?
[09:07] <Mithrandir> it's kinda silly
[09:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I guess cprov's lp-query-distro will fix it when it's written
[09:07] <Mithrandir> I love mythical software.
[09:07] <Mithrandir> can I have a pony with it too?
[09:08] <Mithrandir> (sorry, not intending to be harsh)
[09:08] <zul> yes...yes you can
[09:26] <cjwatson> ok, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/unapproved/ is in place now
[09:26] <cjwatson> should help with coordination
[09:28] <Draconicus> http://pastebin.ca/450323
[09:28] <Draconicus> This is a bit unpleasant. 
[09:29] <Draconicus> I'm not really asking for support. I'm just pointing out that something very simple has seemingly hosed my system.
[09:29] <Draconicus> That's the original kernel I'm working with. Haven't updated it.
[09:34] <Burgwork> Draconicus: if this is a fresh install of 7.04, file a butg
[09:34] <Burgwork> if it is an update from 6.10, file a bug
[09:34] <Burgwork> if it was updated throughout the dev cycle, don;t
[09:34] <Draconicus> It's quite a bug..
[09:34] <Draconicus> I didn't really do anything. D:
[09:34] <geser> cjwatson: is the devscripts package from this url your merged package?
[09:34] <Draconicus> And it's a fresh install, as stated in the thing..
[09:35] <Burgwork> Draconicus: file bug and ask for support elsewhere, thanks
[09:35] <Draconicus> Alright, alright. I'm just trying to say that you've released too early.
[09:36] <Burgwork> Draconicus: breaking on some random piece of hardware is a bug, not a release blocker
[09:36] <Draconicus> Burgwork: Random piece of hardware?
[09:37] <Draconicus> Well, you go ahead and say that. I'll see it tested.
[09:38] <Burgwork> Draconicus: it is a bug and if you file it, it should get fixed
[09:39] <Draconicus> I need a solution now, but fine.
[09:39] <Draconicus> This was supposed to be a nice, clean install for a client.
[09:39] <Draconicus> I didn't expect a stable release to fall apart.
[09:41] <Burgwork> Draconicus: what I am trying to say it that occasionally some peice of hardware fails to work. You apparently hit a piece like that. If that were the general experience, the release would have been delayed
[09:42] <Seveas> !bug | Draconicus 
[09:42] <ubotu> Draconicus: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[09:42] <Seveas> hmm
[09:42] <Seveas> who broke the bot...
[09:42] <Seveas> it used to say something different in here :)
[09:42] <Burgwork> Seveas: I blame the owner ;)
[09:42] <Seveas> of course
[09:42] <Draconicus> Burgwork: Given the unusual sequence of problems I encountered, it may not be hardware releated. I ran out of space and had to compensate. That could happen to anyone.
[09:42] <Seveas> !bugs
[09:42] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/ IRC is not a good medium to report bugs and this channel is for development coordination.
[09:43] <Draconicus> related*
[09:43] <Seveas> that's the one I man
[09:43] <Seveas> Draconicus, running out of space breaks lots of things
[09:43] <Draconicus> Oy... You know, I think I'll just reinstall. The home partition is separate anyway.
[09:43] <Mithrandir> Draconicus: this doesn't look like a full disk problem?
[09:44] <Mithrandir> s/Draconicus/Seveas/
[09:44] <Seveas> Mithrandir, bodged initramfs?
[09:44] <Mithrandir> that shouldn't make the kernel oops
[09:44] <Seveas> bodged/hald written kernel
[09:44] <Seveas> half*
[09:44] <elmo> grr
[09:44] <elmo> kylem: ping
[09:44] <Draconicus> The disk isn't full anymore, but it was during installation of certain libraries and such.
[09:44] <Mithrandir> could be, or it could be something dodgy in the paravirtualisation bits.
[09:44] <Draconicus> And most importantly nvidia drivers.
[09:45] <elmo> kylem: e1000.eeprom_bad_csum_allow doesn't even appear to work?
[09:45] <Seveas> Draconicus, with nvidia drivers you're on thin support ice anyway :)
[09:45] <Draconicus> You're an ice! D:<
[09:45] <Draconicus> :P
[09:45] <Draconicus> Anyway, I'll just reinstall. I probably killed it with the full disk. You have a very good point.
[09:47] <Seveas> elmo, please don't hurt the poor kernel developer too much, he still needs to cook some Gutsy kernels
[09:49] <shawarma> cjwatson: Would you consider applying this patch to the vim package in gutsy? http://linux2go.dk/vim_regex_cleanup.diff   It's starting to look silly. :-)
[10:03] <Draconicus> Huh. After all that, it may have been a hardware issue. The install disc is failing.
[10:04] <Draconicus> Draws a blank after loading the kernel.
[10:04] <Mithrandir> sure it's not a bad CD?
[10:04] <Draconicus> I'm about to check that.
[10:05] <Draconicus> Well, it fails a CD test, which is to say it goes into it and draws a blank there, too. :P
[10:05] <Draconicus> I'm going to try a 6.06 CD.
[10:06] <Draconicus> Official Dapper install CD has a kernel panic when I attempt to check disc integrity.
[10:07] <Draconicus> I guess I worked this poor old Dell too hard. o.O
[10:08] <Draconicus> Must have overheated somehow.
[10:11] <shawarma> geser: In case you haven't found out yet: Yes, those are the merged packages. Check the .changes file
[10:14] <geser> shawarma: then cjwatson might be interested in my debdiff as it is for devscripts 2.10.3
[10:15] <shawarma> geser: True.
[10:20] <cjwatson> geser: yeah
[10:25] <shawarma> cjwatson: I didn't realise you already uploaded those packages. Just forget about my vim patch then. I'll just prepare a proper package sometime when the archive opens. 
[10:25] <cjwatson> shawarma: I'm applying it now actually - though I added commercial as well
[10:26] <cjwatson> thanks
[10:26] <shawarma> cjwatson: Right, good catch.
[10:26] <shawarma> cheers
[10:29] <tkamppeter> Does someone know why Kubuntu is released and Ubuntu not (according to the Fridge)?
[10:29] <cjwatson> shawarma: done
[10:29] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: the fridge is mistaken and should be corrected
[10:30] <Burgwork> tkamppeter: because nixternal forgot to write the ubuntu stuff
[10:30] <tkamppeter> So everything released?
[10:31] <Nafallo> even the Nordic Remix of everything :-)
[10:35] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: yes
[10:35] <kylem> elmo, you have to add it to /etc/modprobe.d/options first.
[10:35] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: subscribing to ubuntu-announce@lists.ubuntu.com would be a good idea, if you haven't already; it's the authoritative source of information here
[10:36] <shawarma> cjwatson: cool.
[10:36] <shawarma> cjwatson: Any idea when MoM will show up?
[10:36] <sharms> tkamppeter: Also ubuntu.com will show you it is released
[10:36] <cjwatson> shawarma: I think it's still blocked on disk space, but Scott would know more
[10:36] <kylem> elmo, i've got a patch to handle modprobe options on the kernel command line (right now it doesn't apply them, upstream bug)
[10:37] <shawarma> cjwatson: Oh, ok.
[10:48] <geser> cjwatson: aren't doko and Mithrandir responsible for MoM now?
[10:50] <cjwatson> geser: I believe that's the plan but the sysadmin ticket requesting access to the relevant machine is still open, so not really
[11:00] <ion_> Morning.
[11:01] <tepsipakki> ion_: don't push it ;)
[11:03] <ion_> tepsipakki: I just woke up. :-)
[11:03] <tepsipakki> lame excuse
[11:03] <tepsipakki> :P
[11:06] <tkamppeter> Thanks cjwatson, sharms, Burgwork
[11:06] <Burgwork> tkamppeter: it will be rectified soon
[11:41] <ajmitch> morning
[11:45] <conn> mjg59, regarding bug 103768, have you verified if Tim's fix works properly? The bug was closed, but I still have problems connecting to an encrypted network and need to fiddle with enabling/disabling wireless during the connection attempt
[11:45] <ubotu> Malone bug 103768 in linux-source-2.6.20 "softmac and network-manager cite unreconcilable differences" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103768
[11:47] <mjg59> conn: It's not closed, and I haven't had an chance to check it
[11:47] <mjg59> conn: I'm in the US right now
[11:48] <conn> mjg59, thanks for the reply... I thought "Fix committed" was the equivalent to closed, so I wasn't sure if I should open a new bug - Tim thinks that your issue and mine is different, but with the same symptoms
[11:48] <conn> mjg59, anyway... if you're on holiday or whatever, enjoy ;)
[11:50] <Burgwork> conn: committed means the bug has been fixed, however not yet released. Fix Released is that status
[11:52] <conn> Burgwork, thanks & I understand, but Tim made the fix available, and after testing it the issue remains on my system... so either I can contest that it's "fixed", or open a new bug. I was wondering if it's a waste of time to open a new one, or else to wait and see if this is followed up in the original bug
[11:53] <mjg59> conn: One option is to de-duplicate them
[11:53] <mjg59> I'll be back home next Thursday, and I'll try to test it then
[11:54] <conn> I may do that mjg59, thanks