[12:28] <gnomefreak> is this new?
[12:28] <gnomefreak> he was banned last night for some stupid crap i thought
[12:29] <LjL> holycow is a debian fanatic methinks
[12:29] <Pumpernickel> Upgrading with `apt-get` is discouraged now? o.O
[12:29] <mc44> he is usually nice and hostile with people he is helping too :)
[12:29] <LjL> and i recall having arguments with him time ago as well
[12:29] <LjL> Pumpernickel: quite
[12:30] <Pumpernickel> I must've missed the memo on that one.
[12:30] <gnomefreak> Pumpernickel: update-manager handles depends and conflicts 100% better than apt-get
[12:30] <gnomefreak> been like that since dapper>edgy upgrade
[12:30] <LjL> Pumpernickel: it's been discouraged forever. we've got update-manager. i personally think things should be set up so that apt-get would handle them fine - but that's not the case, so
[12:30] <Pumpernickel> Ah.
[12:31] <mc44> there is even a cli version for servers now \o/
[12:31] <LjL> was about time
[12:31] <LjL> and for kubuntu
[12:44] <Seveas> http://www.ams-ix.net/technical/stats/
[12:44] <Seveas> this is THE main internet hub in amsterdam
[12:45] <Seveas> and it may just be my imagination, but look at the timestamp feisty was released
[12:45] <Seveas> and compare it with the day before
[12:45] <GazzaK> owww, pretty green colours
[12:46] <PriceChild> I don't see it...
[12:46] <mc44> Seveas: yeah. your crazy :)
[12:46] <tonyyarusso> How do you look at the prev day?
[12:46] <PriceChild> They're near identical?
[12:46] <Seveas> PriceChild, it was 16:00 local time :)
[12:46] <PriceChild> ahh
[12:47] <PriceChild> there is a teeny jump...
[12:47] <mc44> Seveas: but it was more like half past :p
[12:47] <Seveas> PriceChild, almost unnoticabl
[12:47] <tonyyarusso> oh, nvm, I'm nuts
[12:47] <PriceChild> Seveas, good enough 8-)
[12:47] <Seveas> PriceChild, next ubuntu release HAS to cause som effect on ams-ix :)
[12:47] <PriceChild> hehe
[12:49] <ajmitch> Seveas: it didn't trigger DoS alerts this time? :(
[12:50] <ajmitch> how depressing
[12:51] <LjL> Ubuntu - We congest the Internet.
[12:52] <tonyyarusso> lol
[12:52] <tonyyarusso> Feel our power!
[12:54] <joejaxx> Good Evening All
[12:56] <tonyyarusso> hey joejaxx
[12:56] <joejaxx> :)
[01:18] <Hobbsee> it look so odd without #ubuntu+1 there
[01:20] <PriceChild> invite yourself in? :)
[01:21] <ajmitch> just like half the forums users
[01:22] <Hobbsee> haha
[01:22] <ajmitch> since we know that gutsy must have awesome new stuff already!
[01:23] <Hobbsee> ooh, neat
[01:23] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy
[01:23] <ajmitch> Source packages:  0
[01:23] <ajmitch> special
[01:23] <Hobbsee> gutsy doesnt exist.  it's vaporware
[01:23] <ajmitch> lies!
[01:23] <ajmitch> sabdfl told me it exists!!
[01:24] <joejaxx> lol
[01:24] <Hobbsee> haha
[01:25] <Hobbsee> lies and propoganda!
[01:26] <joejaxx> lol :P
[01:36] <ubotu> mjr called the ops in #ubuntu
[01:37] <Madpilot> dealt with
[01:44] <ubotu> IdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu
[01:45] <variant> hello
[01:45] <Madpilot> afternoon. need a hand?
[01:46] <variant> seems to me that #ubuntu is a victim of it's own success.. anyone thought about setting a user limmit to something like 400 and having overspill channels? (each with a 400 user limit)
[01:46] <variant> 400, or something else.. 300 or 600 etc
[01:46] <Madpilot> OK, cool - we're at exactly 1337 users in #ubuntu :D
[01:46] <PriceChild> variant, and split the support also?
[01:46] <variant> woww
[01:47] <PriceChild> Madpilot, s/c!
[01:47] <variant> haha
[01:47] <Madpilot> missed the screenshot. pity.
[01:48] <variant> PriceChild: yeah, i know what you are thinking but there comes a point (1600 users?) where the support that is possible to provide is really, really poor
[01:49] <variant> everyone seems to think that ubuntu is going to become even more popular (me included).. I think it's inevitable that #ubuntu becomes unmanageable.. with increasing numbers of users frustrated with unanswered questions etc
[01:50] <variant> I know it's a lot to ask but a few overspill channels could be manned by certain users/ops in all of the chans
[01:50] <variant> I don't think it would be possible to hold a conversation in #ubuntu if there were consistently 2000 users
[01:51] <variant> at a busy time
[01:52] <variant> well, that was just a thought I had.
[01:55] <atoponce> managing a channel that size is difficult, no doubt. we have #ubuntu+1 for the next version, and there have been ideas for managing LTS and previous versions in other channels
[01:55] <atoponce> but, splitting up the channel just gives more unanswered posts, as visibility to someone who may be able to answer it, is limited
[01:56] <atoponce> s/posts/questions/
[01:57] <variant> I know it's not easy.. I think there will come a point where it gets to be a requirement though
[01:57] <atoponce> what i think should be stressed in a busy channel like that, is highlighting nicks
[01:57] <variant> yeah
[01:58] <variant> you can't force it on people though
[01:58] <atoponce> no, but, if their subsequent questions could go unaswered, if they're not highlighting the person who's helping them
[01:59] <atoponce> but, you can only do what you can do
[02:13] <atoponce> wind0wsrawks may need some moderation in #ubuntu
[02:17] <atoponce> jrib: thank you!
[02:20] <Scunizi> Can anyone test my router and un-ban me from #ubuntu?
[02:20] <Vorian> wind0wsrawks trolling in -offtopic now
[02:22] <Vorian> atoponce, ^
[02:23] <atoponce> i know
[02:23] <atoponce> he's annoying
[02:23] <tonyyarusso> is it possible to redirect !info nvu to !nvu ?
[02:23] <Scunizi> Is wind0wsrawks around to test and unban me?
[02:23] <Vorian> Scunizi, wind0srawks is a troll
[02:23] <atoponce> Scunizi: windowsrawks didn't ban you. he doesn't have the power
[02:23] <Vorian> not an op
[02:24] <atoponce> it was pricechild, and he's not here at the moment
[02:24] <Scunizi> ok.. I know that someone just mentioned this is the spot to get unbanned and mentioned him.
[02:24] <atoponce> he'll need to do the unban
[02:24] <Scunizi> ok
[02:46] <gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: it should automaticly if there is no !nvu
[02:47] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: No no, the other way around.  There is an !nvu, but no !info
[02:48] <gnomefreak> no !info because ther eis no package in feisty
[02:49] <gnomefreak> hint !forget nvu
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> sure you're not
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> sigh, that's not what I want still.
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> oh well
[02:49] <gnomefreak> i should be in bed but i am waiting for iceape
[02:50] <gnomefreak> night
[03:34] <ubotu> intelikey called the ops in #kubuntu
[03:36] <gnomefreak> nixternal: you an op in therE?
[03:36] <nixternal> yes
[03:36] <gnomefreak> ok cool than i am gone ;)
[03:36] <nixternal> hehe
[03:36] <nixternal> ya, I am watching too
[03:37] <nixternal> he probably did enough to warrant a boot, but I will watch him
[03:37] <gnomefreak> k ;)
[03:37] <nixternal> nalioth got rid of him :)
[03:38] <gnomefreak> nalioth: he has another nick in there
[03:38] <gnomefreak> he changed to chemical... but never changed back to b1ood... you banned blood...
[03:39] <nalioth> chemical, eh?
[03:39] <gnomefreak> chemicalvamp: == b1ood...
[03:40] <gnomefreak> with a one the guy you got was blood with an "el"
[03:41] <gnomefreak> night
[03:47] <chemicalvamp> ok..
[03:48] <nalioth> chemicalvamp: you should ask your question in here
[03:49] <chemicalvamp> BloodyTux was being dumb in #kubuntu, and i chaned my nick to BIoodyTux (with a capitol i) to make fun of him in the other channels he made
[03:49] <chemicalvamp> i think i was banned for things HE did, not me
[03:51] <nalioth> sometimes it's not wise to do things like this, chemicalvamp
[03:51] <nalioth> we have a lot of trouble with clones
[03:52] <chemicalvamp> yeah i can see how  thats a problem, i wasnt aware that it would change my name in #kubuntu untill after i said somehting in it
[03:55] <nalioth> chemicalvamp: sorry about that, but you got a few ops excited . . .
[03:55] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, dfawerefaef said: ubotu: what is the alternate cd for?
[03:56] <chemicalvamp> nalioth its not a problem, i see why they where mad
[03:56] <nalioth> !ubotu > dfawerefaef
[04:01] <nixternal> heh, you know I didn't catch that, but chemicalvamp has been a long time supporter in #kubuntu ;)
[04:02] <chemicalvamp> im always down to help people, and be helped.. passes the time
[04:04] <nixternal> hehe
[04:04] <nixternal> I didn't catch it earlier when they booted you
[04:05] <nixternal> I knew the name was familiar, but it didn't click right away
[04:05] <nalioth> apologies, chemicalvamp (but watch the chameleon act)
[04:05] <nixternal> hehe
[04:05] <nixternal> good idea
[04:06] <chemicalvamp> yeah i will stick with my own name, although had a couple laughs when the real dude was like WTF! ya know hehe
[04:18] <nixternal> nalioth: your boy is looking for you in ot
[04:19] <nalioth> nixternal: which one is that?
[04:22] <ubotu> NickGarvey called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:26] <xblackfire> how is set a project cloack ?
[04:27] <xblackfire>  cloak
[04:36] <ubotu> pppoe_dude called the ops in #ubuntu
[05:00] <Amaranth> interesting
[05:00] <Amaranth> I think we might be leveling off with the user count
[05:00] <Amaranth> It didn't really go up at all
[05:00] <tonyyarusso> Amaranth: keep in mind it's sleepy time for most of the planet
[05:01] <Amaranth> tonyyarusso: sure but we went back down to ~100 more than edgy got us
[05:02] <Amaranth> although since we also lost ~200 right before the feisty release you could say we got ~300 extra
[05:02] <elkbuntu> we hit 1600 i believe, or came really close to it, prior, we were sitting on between 1000 and 1100 consistantly. we're almost 200 up on normal numbers
[05:36] <xt{c}> please unban me from #ubuntu, i am connected to port 8001 now
[05:38] <ubotu> In ubotu, crimsun said: alsa is also download and use the script linked from http://www.linux-sound.info/alsa/index.php?task=support , then tell crimsun the URL of the paste
[05:54] <AmyRose> Thanks whoever unbanned me from ubotu! I have a question though. I was told I was banned for flooding ubotu. Is it still flooding if I ask him stuff in a query window?
[05:55] <AmyRose> I've been wanting to see what ubotu knows without risking getting banned again
[05:57] <Jucato> AmyRose: private query with the bot is the preferred way if you're searching/fishing for stuff. then there's also the factoid webpage
[05:57] <Jucato> !ubotu
[05:57] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[05:58] <AmyRose> Jucato: Thank you. I was hoping I could do that because I don't want to accidentally send the wrong factoid to someone, and I am paranoid and I like to learn too.
[06:04] <Madpilot> Is the cunning plan for -release-party to keep it registered (for six months from now) and just redirect back to #ubuntu?
[06:04] <Madpilot> tonyyarusso, ^^^
[06:05] <Amaranth> redirect to -offtopic
[06:05] <tonyyarusso> I'd agree with Amaranth
[06:05] <tonyyarusso> I was thinking it would probably stay open for a couple of days, max a week or so.
[06:05] <Madpilot> ya
[06:06] <tonyyarusso> It'd probably make sense to transfer ownership to whoever makes sense, although I don't mind holding it either.
[06:13] <xblackfire> "IRC council approval put on hold until UDS" what is that?
[06:14] <Madpilot> UDS = Ubuntu Drinking Session
[06:17] <xblackfire> jejeje, cool
[06:17] <Madpilot> actually s/Drinking/Development
[06:17] <Madpilot> it's the twice-yearly meeting - the next one is in Seville in a month or so (end of May, I think)
[06:42] <elkbuntu> Madpilot, 2 weeks tomorrow
[06:42] <Madpilot> OK - end of April, then
[06:42] <elkbuntu> err.. no, 2 weeks 2 days time
[06:42] <elkbuntu> i leave here in 2 weeks yesterday to get there
[06:43] <elkbuntu> but im going to the ubucon the day before as well
[06:52] <Scunizi> amaranth: anyone around that can unblock me on #ubuntu?
[06:53] <Madpilot> Scunizi, banforward to -read-topic?
[06:54] <Scunizi> madpilot: not sure what the topic means....  does it mean that they won't be unblocking anyone until after UDS (whatever that is)
[06:55] <Madpilot> Scunizi, no - sorry. Are you being sent to #ubuntu-read-topic when you try to get to #ubuntu?
[06:55] <Scunizi> yes
[06:55] <Scunizi> I've made the appropriate changes to the login port
[06:56] <Madpilot> OK - we just need to test your setup to make sure it works - please join #madpilot for a moment
[07:03] <elkbuntu> Madpilot, next 'joke' about women being fake on irc from hai3u is to earn a ban, ok?
[07:04] <Scunizi> ok
[07:06] <Myrtti> where
[07:07] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, hmm?
[07:07] <Myrtti> #ubuntu-offtopic?
[07:08] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, is where he was a dick, yes, but he's joined #ubuntu-women now so he's now in my troll list
[07:09] <Myrtti> ooookkay
[07:10] <Madpilot> Scunizi, ban gone from #ubuntu
[07:11] <Scunizi> Thanks again Madpilot!
[07:11] <Madpilot> not a problem
[07:13] <Whisperkiller> umm i would like to join the #ubuntu channel but cannot for some reason and was forwarded here
[07:14] <Whisperkiller> was i banned or something?
[07:15] <Whisperkiller> is anyone awake?
[07:15] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: are people still using public aways at #u-w?
[07:16] <Madpilot> Whisperkiller, did you have trouble after a D C C attack?
[07:16] <Whisperkiller> possibly
[07:17] <Whisperkiller> i was forwarded to a chat room that mentioned something about that i think
[07:17] <Madpilot> you get forwarded to #ubuntu-read-topic, correct? Have you actually read the topic there?
[07:17] <Whisperkiller> yes i read it but im not on a router right now and it is still doing it
[07:18] <Madpilot> which IRC app are you using?
[07:18] <Whisperkiller> well when i got it while i WAS using my router....it was hydrairc i think...
[07:18] <Whisperkiller> but im on gaim now
[07:19] <Whisperkiller> im actually on the new ubuntu live cd
[07:19] <Whisperkiller> having issues trying to install and was wanting to get help
[07:19] <Madpilot> but are you using your router right now, or not?
[07:19] <Whisperkiller> no
[07:20] <Madpilot> OK - when you do start using your router again, go back to #ubuntu-read-topic and actually read the topic
[07:20] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, if there are, i havent noticed them
[07:20] <Madpilot> in the mean time, join #madpilot for a moment, so I can check something
[07:21] <Whisperkiller> i did read the topic but thought it moot given my current situation :)
[07:21] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, we'd love to have you back there
[08:48] <Madpilot> @now Amsterdam
[08:48] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: April 20 2007, 08:48:57 - Next meeting: Support Team in 1 day
[09:01] <joejaxx> @now Kent
[09:02] <Madpilot> @now London
[09:02] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/London: April 20 2007, 08:02:15 - Next meeting: Support Team in 1 day
[09:02] <joejaxx> ah ok thanks
[09:02] <mneptok> @now is the winter of our discontent
[09:02] <Madpilot> only big cities in that db
[09:03] <Tm_T> @now Feistyland
[09:03] <Tm_T> hmh, stupid bot
[09:03] <joejaxx> lol
[09:03] <joejaxx> it is GutsyLand now :P
[09:03] <Tm_T> not yet :(
[09:04] <joejaxx> well launchpad says it :P
[09:04] <joejaxx> even though it says 0 packages
[09:04] <Tm_T> yes but until repos are open...
[09:04] <joejaxx> :P
[09:04] <joejaxx> i cannot wait to install Gutsy Gibbon
[09:09] <mneptok> if people ask for torrents, please point them at http://montreal.canonical.com/torrents
[09:09] <mneptok> most mirrors have slowed to a crawl
[09:13] <joejaxx> ok
[09:23] <Tm_T> slashdot without slashdot
[09:25] <Madpilot> slashdot by non-morons, you mean? ;)
[09:26] <elkbuntu> yay i got a pony
[09:26] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, did you notice that you got a pony, too?
[09:26] <GazzaK> A Pony!!11!
[09:26] <elkbuntu> GazzaK, http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/second-semiannual-golden-pony-awards/
[09:27] <Burgundavia> heh
[09:27] <joejaxx> LOl
[09:27] <elkbuntu> so did joejaxx
[09:27] <jussi01> I WANT A PONY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:28] <elkbuntu> @pony jussi01
[09:28] <ubotu> No jussi01 can't have a pony, elkbuntu!
[09:28] <Myrtti> hmhpppphh
[09:28] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: rofl The Hoax
[09:29] <elkbuntu> joejaxx, i actually dont get it, i must have missed some huge cool joke or something
[09:29] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: it was a large misconception over a april fools joke
[09:30] <elkbuntu> ooh? what was teh joke?
[09:30] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: that a new site reported 10 days later
[09:30] <joejaxx> elkbuntu: search fluxbuntu official lol
[09:30] <elkbuntu> hehe
[09:32] <joejaxx> lol @ sharms blog
[09:32] <joejaxx> Apparently there was no category in the pony awards for me. I was hoping to win the award for most annoying spec spammer. </quote>
[09:32] <joejaxx> lol
[09:33] <joejaxx> s/new/news/g
[09:33] <joejaxx> wow the ubuntu servers are crawling
[09:33] <joejaxx> :\
[09:34] <jussi01> yeps..
[09:34] <elkbuntu> hehe
[09:35] <joejaxx> jussi01: lol :P
[09:36] <elkbuntu> jussi01, the more you try, the less likely you are to become one
[09:36] <mneptok> anyone that wants the job is obviously too insane to do it effectively.
[09:36] <jussi01> elkbuntu, I sorta figured that.... :P
[09:36] <joejaxx> the +o finds you not the other way around :P
[09:36] <elkbuntu> jussi01, in fact, certain of the deciders will put a big 'NEVER' next to the name of anyone who asks
[09:37] <jussi01> hahah...ok...
[09:38] <GazzaK> hehe
[09:38] <joejaxx> too bad that 40Gbps mirror is a week behind
[09:38] <mneptok> wait until Clothing Optional Tuesday
[09:39] <GazzaK> eeek, /me is glad he is not about on tuesdays
[09:39] <joejaxx> lol
[09:39] <mneptok> GazzaK: trust me, so are we
[09:40] <jussi01> hehe
[09:40] <GazzaK> meh
[09:40] <GazzaK> but mneptok my arse is so purt and cute
[09:41] <mneptok> GazzaK: too late. i've been to the ophthamologist.
[09:42] <GazzaK> the what?
[09:44] <mneptok> "the eye doctor"
[09:44] <GazzaK> ahhh optician :p
[09:45] <GazzaK> trust you to use big long words
[09:45] <mneptok> if you call an ophthamologist an optician, they'll kill you
[09:45] <jussi01> lol
[09:46] <Tm_T> if you call asshole an asshole, they'll kill you, I guess
[09:47] <mneptok> well, an optician has ~2 years of training.
[09:47] <Tm_T> yup
[09:47] <mneptok> an ophthamologist has an MD
[09:48] <Tm_T> thats 7 years + possible specialising, right?
[09:48] <gnomefreak> nalioth: sorry about last night i thought they were same user :(
[09:48] <mneptok> yup
[09:49] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: ...perv
[09:50] <gnomefreak> yeah :(
[11:25] <ubotu> In ubotu, willwill said: !foo is <reply> bar
[11:33] <ubotu> dou1 called the ops in #ubuntu-au
[12:02] <LjL> what's our policy with compiz/beryl now that we have some of it "almost by default"? still redirect everyone to -effects? or keep it in #ubuntu as long as it's strictly related to what's available from "Desktop effects"? or?
[12:02] <mc44> If it breaks, tell them to go to -effects? :)
[12:03] <LjL> if it doesn't break, they won't ask :P
[12:03] <mc44> well they ask how to enable it
[12:03] <LjL> well, personally i'd say that's a question for #Ubuntu now
[12:03] <LjL> and not a long one to answer, either
[12:04] <mc44> thats what Im saying :)
[12:05] <LjL> mc44: then i suppose i need to revise my position
[12:05] <mc44> :p
[12:20] <mneptok> personally, i'd like to see compositor questions kept distinct
[12:20] <mneptok> the less Compiz, Beryl, and co. are seen as "part of Ubuntu" the better, IMO
[12:24] <Madpilot> gnomefreak, quarentine zone for 3d wobbly stuff, so they don't infect decent computers with their wobbliness? ;)
[12:25] <gnomefreak> Madpilot: lol i meant from beryl repos since ubuntu doesnt support the beryl repos (half the people that use it have no clue where they got it from ;)
[12:25] <gnomefreak> ask.com and ask jevees are now the same :(
[12:25] <Madpilot> true enough. 3rd party repos... fun things.
[12:40] <gnomefreak> -release-party has turned in to an offtopic channel
[12:41] <Madpilot> the cunning plan is to redirect it back to -offtopic in in a few days
[12:41] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[12:42] <mc44> oh please no. Just clear it ;)
[12:42] <gnomefreak> lol
[12:42] <mneptok> aye
[12:52] <Symmetria> hrm heh, quick question, is there a reason why at the moment I cant talk in #ubuntu?
[12:53] <mneptok> can you part/join?
[12:53] <Symmetria> yeah Im in there
[12:53] <Symmetria> Im not banned :)
[12:53] <Symmetria> I simply cant send to channel, almost like its desynched or something
[12:54] <mneptok> taht's exactly it
[12:54] <mneptok> (since you're not banned)
[12:54] <Symmetria> urgh, heh, no TS6 here? :)
[12:54] <LjL> err?
[12:54] <mneptok> the ircd is working hard to keep sync with all the joi/parts
[12:54] <LjL> #ubuntu is desynced?
[12:54] <mneptok> +n
[12:54] <Symmetria> heh ljl well, I'd presume so since I can join/part and cant talk :)
[12:55] <apokryphos> Symmetria: nope
[12:55] <LjL> well you might be muted
[12:55] <Symmetria> ljl, thats also possible, how do I get unmuted :)
[12:55] <LjL> depends why you were muted, hold on
[12:55] <Symmetria> I dont know what modes this network supports, I run efnet servers, hehe not freenode servers
[12:55] <LjL> yes, you're quite muted
[12:55] <Symmetria> for what?
[12:56] <LjL> Symmetria: apparently, for lying about feisty being out when it was not
[12:56] <mneptok> Symmetria: you'll *admit* to running an EF ircd?!
[12:56] <mneptok> are you drunk or crazy? or both?
[12:56] <mneptok> ;)
[12:56] <Symmetria> ljl *rolls eyes* all I said was "there are images on the mirrors, and they are not official, there is no official release yesterday" referring the images which WERE there
[12:56] <Symmetria> and since I RUN one of the ubuntu mirrors I had NO reason to do that
[12:57] <Symmetria> (I run za.* mz.* ls.* etc)
[12:57] <mneptok> Symmetria: if you run a mirror you are expected to be more responsible about what you announce.
[12:57] <apokryphos> Symmetria: saying that it's out when it hasn't been officially announced just increases confusion, and possibly problems
[12:57] <Symmetria> apokryphos I never said it was out, I was asked a question
[12:57] <Symmetria> I answered it
[12:57] <apokryphos> Symmetria: even if it's on the mirror, that's not to say that that image is the final release
[12:57] <LjL> Symmetria: well no, you went on arguing from what i can see...
[12:57] <Symmetria> I said to people please do NOT download
[12:57] <Symmetria> *sigh* ok, whatever
[12:57] <apokryphos> 2007-04-19T12:10:20 <Symmetria> it is out
[12:57] <apokryphos> 2007-04-19T12:10:23 <Symmetria> definately out
[12:58] <Symmetria> apokryphos look, Im not gonig to argue with you
[12:58] <Symmetria> I knwo what I said in what context
[12:58] <LjL> Symmetria: for that matter anyway, it was "out" days ago... the images are dated 15th
[12:58] <Symmetria> if you wish to keep me muted in there, I have no problem with that, I will simply leave
[12:58] <apokryphos> Symmetria: I know too, so please don't try to argue :)
[12:59] <mneptok> Symmetria: any discussion prior to official announcment about what mirrored bits have been synced to you is Really Frackin' Uncool, IMO
[12:59] <apokryphos> Symmetria: we'll lift your mute for now, but please don't do things like that in the future
[12:59] <Symmetria> Im not going to argue
[12:59] <Symmetria> well thank you for lifting it, I still contend that I never said those things :)
[12:59] <Symmetria> cheers
[01:00] <LjL> symmetria: wait, it's not like i want to argue but
[01:00] <LjL> Symmetria: i'd just like you to understand why you shouldn't have told people it was released
[01:00] <LjL> Symmetria: it was "released" on 15th. sure, the images on the mirrors didn't change
[01:00] <LjL> Symmetria: but that was because they've been *testing* it during that time... if they'd found problems, possibly serious problems, they'd have fixed them before release
[01:01] <Symmetria> ljl, I do understand, I understand perfectly well, what I was actually saying if you read the context though was that there were images out there, they may or may not be the final release, and if you were gonna download them please to use the torrents to keep the load down
[01:01] <Symmetria> thats ALL I said
[01:01] <LjL> they could have possibly even delayed the release, if that were justified
[01:01] <mneptok> Symmetria: as a mirror operator even that goes over the line
[01:01] <Symmetria> and ljl I perfectly well understand the reasons behind it, and thats why you need to read context, though its entirely possible I get muted so fast that my CONTEXT never got through
[01:01] <LjL> well, there's been images out for ages - the "herds", the beta... this one was just a release candidate
[01:01] <LjL> it just so happened to coincide with the later actual release
[01:01] <mneptok> Symmetria: Canonical trusts you to act in our best interest. that means not announcing *ANYTHING* until we do.
[01:02] <Symmetria> mneptok as a mirror operator I have to contend with server and network load, when someone in there posts a link that points directly at my mirror and makes comments about the images on there, which cause a 60mbit spike in bandwidth on an unofficial image, am I supposed to say NOTHING?
[01:02] <Symmetria> mneptok what I was saying is that YES there are images on there, because someone had just posted a damn link to them, must I dig out the logs and show it? as well as thec omments I made after that?
[01:02] <Symmetria> which PROBABLY didnt get through because of how fast I got muted
[01:02] <apokryphos> Symmetria: surely you would say that that's *not* the official image to them
[01:02] <mneptok> Symmetria: take the machine offline or chown the stuff before you break trust
[01:03] <apokryphos> not proclaim that it IS out
[01:03] <LjL> Symmetria: you're unmuted, so there's no point arguing about what you *meant* to say anymore, i think
[01:03] <LjL> Symmetria: i just wanted to make sure you realize what i said above
[01:03] <LjL> if you do, then fine
[01:03] <Symmetria> look IM not going to discuss this, but whatever, you believe what you want about what I said or didnt say
[01:03] <apokryphos> we also have automatic logs of all bans, with significant previous context
[01:03] <Symmetria> look, think what you will\
[01:04] <apokryphos> I really haven't seen many people argue about them not saying something when you actually produce the quote of them saying it 8)
[01:07] <mneptok> apokryphos: you never said that.
[01:08] <apokryphos> they normally reply with 'lol, well....'
[01:09] <apokryphos> hm, openweek next week.. serious exams in the up-coming weeks. /me prays for strength 8)
[01:10] <GazzaK> lol, well, it was not my fault, the cat was laying on the keyboard
[02:23] <ikonia_> guys, could someone please jump in to #ubuntu the user socerer is constantly asking for hand holding / install help for the 3rd party quake application and refusing to read the quake 4 docs
[02:28] <ikonia_> LjL thanks
[02:37] <ubotu> ikonia_ called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:00] <ikonia_> Seveas are you there
[04:01] <ikonia_> actually, it doesn't have to be seveas I only mentioned him as I've spoke to him breifly about this before
[04:02] <ikonia_> Does anyone have an opinion on would it be potentially workable to split the ubuntu channels into release channesl eg: #ubuntu-dapper #ubuntu-fesity etc etc etc. The volume in #ubuntu is getting larger, and mostly FAQ's but for different releases
[04:02] <ikonia_> you open a channel for release, then 18 months or what ever the support agreement is - you close the channel
[04:02] <ikonia_> just floating a suggestion
[04:12] <elkbuntu> ikonia, i suggested a week or so ago having #ubuntu-lts
[04:12] <elkbuntu> but nothing has come from it yet
[04:12] <ikonia_> its getting a tad out of hand in #ubuntu - more so when its just FAQ after FAQ after FAQ
[04:12] <mc44> I dont think having a seperate room for edgy would be productive
[04:12] <elkbuntu> it's always been FAQ after FAQ
[04:13] <elkbuntu> mc44, i agree, but i think splitting LTS out would be fair
[04:13] <mc44> right
[04:13] <ikonia_> I'd love to see ubuntu-lts ubuntu-edgy ubuntu-fesity and as say edgy goes out of support kill the channel
[04:14] <mc44> to be fair its half bugs half faqs most of the time :)
[04:14] <ikonia_> I've seen 2 buts and the rest are "how to I configure ati".....
[04:14] <elkbuntu> ikonia, splitting channel down that far would become equally unmanagable
[04:16] <belux> hi, anyone can help with grub doesn't detect a hd?
[04:16] <ikonia_> it could be unmanagable too, I'm only suggesting
[04:16] <Jucato> belux: try asking in #ubuntu
[04:16] <ikonia_> if you have channel specialists who committed to supporting  / opping that channel, then overall ubuntu ops to oversea the running of the lot
[04:18] <ikonia_> say 5 ops / specialists in each chanel and say 10 overall guys
[04:18] <ikonia_> then as say edgy dies the 5 specialists move to say 8.10 or what ever
[04:19] <mc44> ... you think we could ever be that organised?
[04:19] <ikonia_> I think you could
[04:19] <ikonia_> there is a good group running the channels now
[04:19] <ikonia_> just a bit of commitment
[04:20] <elkbuntu> ikonia, you're talking about volunteers here. volunteers are not easy to organise
[04:20] <ikonia_> elkbuntu no no, I agree, but It hink totally do-able
[04:20] <Hobbsee> ikonia_: ubuntu ops people are not paid.  you cannot force them to take shifts
[04:21] <elkbuntu> doable and worth doing are not the same thing
[04:21] <Hobbsee> nor to answer if they do not wish
[04:21] <ikonia_> Hobbsee doesn't have to be shifts, just managed as it is now, eg: there are saty 6 guys lurking now sleeing, they just have to sleep in a channel each
[04:21] <ikonia_> I'm only tabling a thought as #ubuntu is not working at this moment in time
[04:22] <ikonia_> I'd also really like to disscuss ubotu if possible but thats a seperate issue
[04:22] <ikonia_> I'm only tabling suggestions that may have already been tabled and dismissed I don't know
[04:22] <ikonia_> but I'd rather say something that sit complaining about it with no suggestion
[04:23] <Hobbsee> ikonia_: it's not a bad idea.  ops will usually be in all the channels
[04:23] <ikonia_> Hobbsee exactly
[04:23] <ikonia_> and you just need a few guys who know that distro version "reasonable" to control the flow of questions, which there certainyl seems to be in #ubuntu already - its just too noisy to orginse
[04:24] <ikonia_> if you split it out the "specialists" can filter and control the questions / answers easier
[04:24] <Hobbsee> what concerns me is that you appear to think that having ops in a channel means that you're to provide support
[04:24] <ikonia_> as before - an early doors suggestion
[04:24] <Hobbsee> and we cant guarentee that
[04:24] <ikonia_> Hobbsee not at all
[04:24] <Hobbsee> right
[04:24] <ikonia_> Hobbsee too different things 1.) control the channel 2.) manage the support
[04:24] <ikonia_> Hobbsee I was wrongly using the term "op" to summerise general control
[04:25] <Hobbsee> 2 wont happen, a lot of the time
[04:25] <Hobbsee> (by the ops)
[04:25] <ikonia_> Hobbsee I'm phrasing it badley to be honest
[04:25] <Hobbsee> well, by a lot of them
[04:25] <Hobbsee> true
[04:25] <ikonia_> Hobbsee I welcome discussion
[04:25] <elkbuntu> getting users who half the time dont know what they are using into the 'correct' channels is even more futile
[04:26] <elkbuntu> wow.. that was lag and a bit
[04:26] <ikonia_> elkbuntu not if they "sign up for it" they can be in any channel they want, but if they take a responsability for providing support when possible to a specific channel, then it would be a big step forward
[04:26] <ikonia_> (in my opinion)
[04:26] <ikonia_> it totally has flaws and adraw backs
[04:26] <ikonia_> and
[04:26] <ikonia_> but I'm suggesting a simmple premise - not a full idea
[04:26] <mc44> half the questions are answered by other people who are asking different questiosn. Its not a matter of specialists
[04:26] <ikonia_> just requesting feedback and opinions
[04:27] <ikonia_> mc44 but most of the guys are "experienced" not "how do I login" type guys
[04:27] <ikonia_> thats what I mean by specialist
[04:28] <ikonia_> and someone who can answer how to do say initscripts in lts - would give bad advice to an edgy user with say upstart
[04:28] <ikonia_> thats whay I mean by specialist, someone who knows the product they are using
[04:28] <ikonia_> or supporting I should say
[04:30] <ikonia_> any other reasons my suggestion would fail in your eyes
[04:33] <Hobbsee> where do we pick the specialists from?
[04:33] <ikonia_> ask for volenteers, from the excisting users or regs or ops, or hit good people on the ubuntu forums (just random ideas)
[04:33] <ikonia_> there are some good guys in the channel already
[05:25] <shockent> hello, could I please be tested?
[05:38] <PriceChild> shockent, please join #shockent
[05:41] <PriceChild> shockent, thanks for your patience, you may now /join #ubuntu
[05:41] <shockent> thanks a lot PriceChild
[05:51] <LjL> try  host us.archive.ubuntu.com , i'm getting "Host us.archive.ubuntu.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)" - and i tried due to a user not being able to use apt-get, same error
[05:51] <LjL> my own DNS server has 130.239.18.159 cached for us.archive.ubuntu.com, and it's online itself (it pings, anyway)
[05:53] <PriceChild> LjL, I can't get a reply from it
[05:53] <LjL> PriceChild: you mean when pinging the IP address?
[05:53] <PriceChild> ah yeah the ip works
[05:53] <LjL> PriceChild: you don't get a reply from the DNS?
[05:54] <PriceChild> i can't look up the us.archive.ubuntu.com thoug
[05:54] <PriceChild> h
[05:54] <LjL> no error no anything?
[05:55] <PriceChild> just unknown host
[05:55] <PriceChild> guess people'll just have to be patient...
[05:56] <mc44> LjL: works for me
[05:56] <PriceChild> lol
[05:56] <mc44> mark@sam:~/Desktop$ host us.archive.ubuntu.com
[05:56] <mc44> us.archive.ubuntu.com is an alias for ubuntu-archive.acc.umu.se.
[05:56] <mc44> ubuntu-archive.acc.umu.se has address 130.239.18.159
[05:56] <mc44> ubuntu-archive.acc.umu.se has address 130.239.18.158
[05:56] <mc44> ubuntu-archive.acc.umu.se has IPv6 address 2001:6b0:e:2018::159
[05:56] <mc44> ubuntu-archive.acc.umu.se has IPv6 address 2001:6b0:e:2018::158
[05:56] <LjL> mc44: gah. you aren't using a caching DNS server or something?
[05:56] <mc44> ubuntu-archive.acc.umu.se mail is handled by 0 mail.acc.umu.se.
[05:56] <Pici> Thanks LjL, but no one reads the topic.
[05:57] <mc44> LjL: dont think so
[05:57] <mc44> LjL: but why on earth it is redirecting to sweden I have no idea
[05:58] <LjL> ...tient
[05:59] <LjL> mc44: no idea, but that's the same entry i get if i use my own local DNS server
[05:59] <PriceChild> hmm looking up for me now, to a different sweden address :P
[05:59] <LjL> so it was redirecting to there earlier, and now apparently it's just dangling
[05:59] <LjL> your DNS servers are probably keeping the old entry while mine and other people's aren't
[06:33] <LjL> i think BrunoUT might be a troll. he's been whining since yesterday and doesn't listen to a thing (or, he listens but ignores)
[06:34] <PriceChild> I remember his nick from a while ago for some reason
[06:48] <nullterminated__> I'm banned from #ubuntu because of the DCCExploit.  Will someone please test me?
[06:48] <LjL> nullterminated__: sure
[06:48] <LjL> nullterminated__: join ##ljl please
[06:51] <LjL> nullterminated__?
[06:51] <nullterminated__> i'll be there ina sec. i'm running xchat through ssh so i'm a bit slow at the moment
[06:54] <jrib> LjL: So you dcc send foo?  Is taht all that is done to test?
[06:54] <jrib> erm
[06:55] <LjL> jrib: private
[06:55] <Pici> jrib: 'oops'
[06:56] <Myrtti> lol
[06:57] <Myrtti> cheers jrib ;-)
[06:57] <Myrtti> a toast for you
[06:57] <jrib> Myrtti: :)
[07:09] <LjL> might automatix be gone for good?
[07:09] <ikonia> hello guys
[07:09] <PriceChild> LjL, there's a feisty version no?
[07:09] <LjL> PriceChild: www.getautomatix.com
[07:09] <tsmithe> it's down?
[07:10] <LjL> tsmithe: well, now it doesn't load for me
[07:10] <LjL> but 10 seconds ago, it went to something that looked like a parked domain
[07:10] <LjL> (spam, anyway)
[07:10] <tsmithe> wait
[07:10] <tsmithe> it's doing something...
[07:10] <ikonia> I've sent a snoty email to a couple of journo's today with regard to them recommending automatix as a product in their reviews and trying to associate ubuntu with it
[07:10] <tsmithe> excellent
[07:11] <PriceChild> mine seems to be loading slowly but fine
[07:11] <Burgwork> LjL: automatix just got endorsed by pioneer linux
[07:11] <LjL> uhm, i think i've been 0wn3d...
[07:11] <Burgwork> likely they are getting nailed by the feisty release
[07:12] <LjL> the guy who had given the "information" had typed http://www.getautomatrix.com, and i guess the first time i just copied and pasted
[07:12] <LjL> this one actually is a parked/spam domain
[07:12] <LjL> the real one doesn't load for me anyway
[07:12] <tsmithe> yeah LjL it's just working now
[07:13] <LjL> well here it's consistently timing out, i've been fooled by the misspelling + timeout of the real thing
[07:13] <PriceChild> LjL, just loaded fine for me
[07:31] <ikonia> while there is a few more awake people, did anyone have a glance at my comments/requested suggestion on whats going on with #ubuntu at the moment.
[07:47] <PriceChild> I kicked ProN00b yday for a debian/ubuntu comment... I'm watching :)
[07:48] <PriceChild> here he goes..
[07:49] <ikonia> PriceChild: not seen him say anything
[07:49] <PriceChild> wait for it ;)
[07:49] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[07:50] <LjL> PriceChild: next time, he can't say he wasn't warned. really. i have him !guidelines and !etiquette.
[07:50] <PriceChild> ok
[07:58] <ikonia> anyone take a look at the user b07a - stinking attitude
[07:59] <PriceChild> watching
[08:02] <ikonia> he just won't accept ati don't support his card, but wants a magic solution in fesity
[08:02] <PriceChild> just /ignore him i think
[08:02] <ikonia> I know what your saying, but he's just talking rubbish "I want a fix" this isn't an ubuntu problem and he keeps asking about it
[08:02] <ikonia> ubuntu packaged the latest compatible driver with xorg - ati pulled support for his card
[08:03] <ikonia> its that sort of "ubuntu broke my card" chat that annoys me, and the worst thing is, he knows its ati's fault but expects ubuntu to fix it
[08:15] <ikonia> it was inevitable ;)
[09:20] <Amaranth> "Breaking your Debian Etch with automatix2"
[09:20] <Amaranth> the plague spreads
[09:20] <Seveas> prower --> ban-on-sight
[09:20] <Seveas> troll is pming now
[09:20] <Seveas> of course with the regular 'I have some shells' argument
[09:21] <LjL> i have more shells than him
[09:21] <LjL> i brought a collection from my last trip to the seaside
[09:21] <ompaul> Amaranth, :)
[09:25] <Seveas> when shall we shutdown the -party channel?
[09:25] <LjL> Seveas: my guess is it's currently populated mostly by the +1 regulars
[09:26] <LjL> dunno. some people will whine, for sure.
[09:26] <Amaranth> I think the plan was forwarding it to -offtopic after a week
[09:26] <Seveas> sounds good
[09:26] <LjL> maybe wait until it gets <100 people, or after midday tomorrow if it doesn't
[09:27] <LjL> to -offtopic? ouch
[09:42] <apokryphos> a week is probably too long
[09:46] <ompaul> LjL, the party has four days to run
[09:47] <ompaul> then they have to get back to rl for three to ten days
[09:47] <ompaul> #ubuntu
[09:48] <LjL> what you see fit. i don't particularly care, and taking some load from #ubuntu won't hurt
[09:52] <malik__> hi...........how do i get unbanned from kubuntu........i honestly didnt do anything.......just tried to loginto that channel and got the msg that i am banned from that channel..........can any one help?
[09:52] <PriceChild> I'm looking into it
[09:52] <malik__> thanx mate
[09:52] <jenda> Are there meeting logs for the last CC meeting?
[09:53] <jenda> erm, minutes, that is
[09:53] <jenda> I'm interested in the CC elections
[09:53] <ompaul> jenda, logs is the minutes
[09:53] <LjL> PriceChild: 88.232 is global banned
[09:53] <PriceChild> jenda, Seveas just has to set it up and then we'll vote afaik
[09:53] <PriceChild> LjL, ahh, wondered why i was having trouble :)
[09:53] <Seveas> indeed
[09:54] <Seveas> I'm actually working on it :)
[09:54] <jenda> coolio :)
[09:56] <LjL> malik__, are you the guy who often joined as "malik" and "malik_"?
[09:57] <malik__> yessssssssssssss
[09:57] <LjL> malik__: have you changed internet provider recently?
[09:57] <malik__> though i havent registered it but yes i normally join the channel with that name
[09:57] <malik__> noooops
[09:58] <malik__> i have been using the same ISP for the last 6 mnths or so
[09:58] <ompaul> well thats funny cos it is blocked since Feb
[09:59] <LjL> ompaul: other IP addresses, but they changed often during the past months
[09:59] <malik__> i was online just yesterday................
[10:01] <Seveas> malik__, how's fedora working for you?
[10:03] <malik__> hahahahahahahahah............fedora is cool though i havent tried it after fedora core 5.........multimedia didnt work quite the way it does in kubuntu..........plus KDE in fedora doesnt glow and look spiffy like it does in kubuntu edgy
[10:08] <malik__> so am i goin to be unbanned from #kubuntu or there is no chance for the time being?
[10:08] <malik__> or if i need to change my nick and register it?
[10:10] <LjL> malik__: i'd register a nickname and get an unaffiliated cloak
[10:10] <LjL> malik__: check the freenode faq
[10:10] <LjL> !register > malik__    (malik__, see the private message from Ubotu)
[10:11] <malik__> what is unaffiliated cloak?
[10:11] <LjL> it's described there
[10:11] <malik__> oki fair enuf..........so i shouldnt hold my breath about getting unbanned
[10:12] <LjL> malik__, once you're cloaked the ban is not there anymore. the ban is on a class of addresses that is particularly obnoxious
[10:13] <malik__> u mean the address im login in from is infected with spywares n stuff?
[10:13] <LjL> malik__: i know its subnet is heavily exploited by malicious people.
[10:13] <LjL> don't know the details.
[10:16] <malik__> yea that would sound correct becoz i am in turkey for the last 6 months.........thats why i am using linux n i have fallen in love with kubuntu........too much spyware in this country...........ppl have no idea about a firewall or anit spyware softwares.
[10:16] <malik__> its a miracle that their internet banking works
[10:42] <poningru> ok so quick question
[10:42] <poningru> what can we do to get rid of the automatix thing?
[10:42] <poningru> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130923-page,1-c,linux/article.html
[10:43] <poningru> is there some type of campaign we can do to let people know about about the restricted package/
[10:43] <poningru> ?
[10:44] <Burgwork> poningru: aside from Automatix, not a bad review
[10:45] <poningru> right
[10:45] <poningru> well the beryl as well
[10:45] <poningru> but not so bad
[10:45] <Burgwork> I would email the guy
[10:45] <poningru> hmm
[10:45] <poningru> and have him issue a correction?
[10:45] <Burgwork> tell him with the other bits, he doesn't need automatix and that promoting it is harmful to Ubuntu
[10:46] <poningru> hmm sounds good
[10:46] <Burgwork> I might need to blog about it
[10:48] <Burgwork> automatix: dangerous and useless
[10:49] <poningru> yes indeedy
[10:52] <Seveas> Burgwork, prepare for comment attacks :)
[10:52] <Burgwork> advogato
[10:52] <Burgwork> no comments :)
[10:52] <Seveas> heh
[10:53] <Burgwork> that does mean I actually have to install automatix
[10:54] <apokryphos> isn't automatix still promoted by the forums?
[10:54] <Seveas> no
[10:54] <apokryphos> hm, that's new
[10:54] <Seveas> it's banned
[10:54] <Seveas> together with all of the a-x crew
[10:54] <PriceChild> apokryphos, hehe  no :)
[10:54] <apokryphos> forums have way too much rama 8)
[10:55] <PriceChild> rama?
[10:55] <Seveas> they got sick of Arnieboy, his attitide and the crap caused by a-x if I understood it correctly
[10:55] <apokryphos> and drama too
[10:55] <apokryphos> laggy ssh
[10:55] <apokryphos> Seveas: I'm surprised it took them so long
[10:55] <Seveas> (leaky leaky: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+polls/)
[10:55] <PriceChild> basically automatix had "partnered" with a certain other forum..
[10:55] <apokryphos> I spoke to the guy for a couple of minutes and basically understood that
[10:55] <LjL> certain other forum?
[10:56] <poningru> atleast /. commentator yelled re: automatix
[10:56] <PriceChild> and they just constantly trolled, attacking staff when we suggested ubuntu documentation instead of automatix etc.
[10:56] <poningru> yeah the other forum?
[10:56] <apokryphos> Ubuntu should just make a more official comment about it
[10:56] <poningru> apokryphos++
[10:56] <apokryphos> Seveas: cool
[10:57] <poningru> I would bring it up during tech board/cc meetings but /me isnt a member yet
[10:57] <apokryphos> you don't need to be a member to bring up things with the cc
[10:57] <poningru> oh hmm
[10:57] <poningru> I just might then
[10:58] <apokryphos> Burgwork: I'm glad you're in the running for it :)
[10:58] <Seveas> poningru, you can also simply mail community-council at lists dot ubuntu.com
[10:58] <poningru> hmm ok
[10:59] <Burgwork> apokryphos: they were nominations by sabdfl
[10:59] <apokryphos> sure
[11:00] <gnomefreak> thats the new CC or nominations for new CC
[11:00] <Burgwork> nominations
[11:01] <gnomefreak> good luck Burgwork ;)
[11:01] <Burgwork> I honestly have no idea how it going to turn out
[11:01] <gnomefreak> is this being done at UDS?
[11:01] <Burgwork> afaik, the voting will be via launchpad
[11:02] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[11:02] <apokryphos> yeah from ubuntu members
[11:02] <gnomefreak> ok cool ;)
[11:02] <gnomefreak> all 3 members being voted on? or just one to replace cjwatson?
[11:03] <PriceChild> as many as get approved will get a seat
[11:03] <Burgwork> all 3, from what I understasnd
[11:06] <Seveas> sabdfl, elmo and mako will stay on the cc
[11:06] <Seveas> anyone with a positiv outcome on their vote joins them
[11:07] <gnomefreak> oh so just one space open
[11:07] <Seveas> no
[11:07] <Seveas> 0 to 5 spaces open
[11:07] <gnomefreak> oh
[11:07] <gnomefreak> thats a big CC
[11:07] <apokryphos> what exactly is a 'positive outcome'?
[11:07] <Seveas> there is a yes/no vote per candidate
[11:08] <apokryphos> oh, non-negative?
[11:08] <Seveas> positive outcome is (i think) more than 50% yes
[11:08] <Seveas> could be more than N% where N>50
[11:08] <apokryphos> I doubt anyone will have a negative outcome really
[11:08] <Seveas> me neither
[11:08] <gnomefreak> i think user should be member of CC because .....?
[11:08] <apokryphos> they all have wiki pages, I guess
[11:09] <gnomefreak> yep
[11:09] <Seveas> polls include links to lp homepages
[11:09] <Seveas> which link to wiki
[11:09] <apokryphos> still, would be  nice to have them say a bit on their views about ubuntu :P
[11:09] <apokryphos> though I guess you could stalk their blogs for that
[11:09] <gnomefreak> stalking is not legal ;)
[11:09] <Burgwork> teh CC really isn't a leadership role as such
[11:10] <apokryphos> it's a leadership team in a sense
[11:10] <gnomefreak> it is in the sense of a group that can accept or decline requests but not in the sense of you do this
[11:11] <apokryphos> I guess it also means you have to sit through the whole CC meetingstoo; good luck ;-)
[11:11] <Burgwork> yep
[11:12] <gnomefreak> lol
[11:12] <Burgwork> every other meeting is at 4am for me
[11:12] <apokryphos> ouch
[11:12] <gnomefreak> maybe with 5 people it will go faster?
[11:12] <Burgwork> might
[11:12] <Burgwork> means we can miss if  needed
[11:13] <gnomefreak> to keep time runover less
[11:13] <apokryphos> with more people it could only take longer, really
[11:14] <Seveas> apokryphos, no, we don't need the whole CC to be there
[11:14] <gnomefreak> not if ones says lets hurry up a bit
[11:14] <Seveas> apokryphos, we could say '3 is quorum'
[11:14] <Seveas> and make sure 3 CC members per meeting are available
[11:15] <apokryphos> that'd be good
[11:16] <ikonia> would anyone have a problem or a suggestion on me mailing the CC with regard to my comment on channel usability, more so after fesity has been released, or would it better to be discussed more with your guys then if you agree its worth mailing, mail it in
[11:16] <apokryphos> if it's regarding IRC we should be told first, ideally
[11:17] <ikonia> apokryphos: did I not have a quick converstion with you about this earlier, I was sounding some people out for thoughts / comments
[11:17] <gnomefreak> unless you are talking about runoff channels (more than one #ubuntu)
[11:17] <ikonia> gnomefreak: yeah that was part of it
[11:17] <gnomefreak> that i saw it and has seen it since dapper release
[11:17] <ikonia> been a long day
[11:17] <apokryphos> we pretty much all think that's a bad idea
[11:18] <ikonia> ok, thats cool, any particular reason ?
[11:18] <apokryphos> demarcations may be possible though; the idea needs to be fleshed out though
[11:18] <gnomefreak> ikonia: why would it help?
[11:18] <apokryphos> ikonia: all the reasons we raised against it last time?
[11:18] <gnomefreak> s/why/how?
[11:18] <nalioth> are we having a meeting or just a really lively discussion?
[11:18] <gnomefreak> no meeting
[11:18] <apokryphos> people would idle in several of them, there's more channels to watch, etc etc
[11:18] <Seveas> ikonia, at UDS the IRC council will be approved, we should discuss it after that
[11:18] <ikonia> apokryphos: was it you I was talking with earlier
[11:18] <apokryphos> hi nalioth
[11:19] <apokryphos> ikonia: I remember the issue
[11:19] <apokryphos> but I have to go for now anyway; others may be happy to talk 8)
[11:19] <ikonia> Seveas: its not a problem, not trying to step on toes, the release after fesity made #ubuntu pretty unusualbe
[11:19] <ikonia> I welcome disussion
[11:19] <Seveas> ikonia, that happened after every release
[11:20] <Seveas> it'll settle down in a few days
[11:20] <ikonia> your spot on
[11:20] <ikonia> I assume its ok to talk freely at the moment
[11:20] <Seveas> it has 5 times more people now than 2 years ago
[11:20] <Seveas> not nearly 1.5 times the amount of talk
[11:20] <ikonia> yes, big useage
[11:20] <ikonia> I'm seeing two potential issues with #ubuntu at the moment
[11:21] <ikonia> 1. the ammount of usage and FAQ chat
[11:21] <ikonia> 2.) ubotu is being battered and a core cause of almost flooding
[11:21] <ikonia> is that fair comment or overkill ?
[11:21] <Seveas> 1.) that is the one thing that does not stop when splitting
[11:21] <ikonia> Seveas: your right again, however I'm wondering if its mangagable
[11:21] <Seveas> 2.) ubotu is still doing fine and we can do something about flooding
[11:21] <LjL> 2) just start using > more
[11:22] <ikonia> LjL: I wrote the good botusage factoid to try to encourage users to start using > more
[11:22] <ikonia> it is in use more
[11:22] <LjL> i've already encouraged people to use > more, especially there days
[11:22] <ikonia> but enough ?
[11:22] <LjL> ikonia: dunno. i still do use | myself when i think it's needed - or when i plain forget.
[11:22] <ikonia> FYI: this isn't mean to be critisism, just discussion
[11:22] <LjL> "needed" meaning "i have a feeling that the user won't realize he's got a private message no matter how hard i try"
[11:22] <Seveas> ikonia, discussion is good :)
[11:23] <nalioth> i see no reason for channel factoids any more, as they get swept away almost instantly
[11:23] <ikonia> good good, not trying to cause offense
[11:23] <nalioth> a direct PM to the person indicated is way more helpful to the person, imho
[11:23] <LjL> nalioth: if you notice, many people have started shamelessly ripping off my alias
[11:23] <LjL> !blah > ljl    (ljl, see the private message from Ubotu)
[11:23] <LjL> so people do use private messages, if they see other people doing the same
[11:24] <Seveas> btw: the Ubuntu torrent really has a lot of seeders now, my upload is no more than 12k so I assume no more is needed :)
[11:24] <ikonia> the suggestion I was tabling for discussion earlier, was to have an ubuntu-$verision channel for the durection of support in an attempt to a.) address version specific FAQ's better in the channel b.) provide better version specific support (eg: LTS !=upstart or blkid or compiz,)
[11:24] <LjL> oh, nice to know, i can stop not seeding it :P
[11:24] <LjL> ikonia: but LTS is almost our flagship product, i really wouldn't like its support not being in #ubuntu
[11:25] <ikonia> LjL: you would think people would grasp that, but they don't and the ammount of times 5 people do !nvidia
[11:25] <LjL> and relegating feisty to somewhere else doesn't make sense either
[11:25] <ikonia> LjL: so ubuntu = LTS support as "official" suppor then say #ubuntu-edgy and #ubuntu-fesity for the duration of the products support
[11:25] <Seveas> the split between #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1 is a good one, but splitting all versions would be bad
[11:25] <ikonia> so people wtih LTS issues don't have to deal with common FAQ's on say compiz
[11:25] <Seveas> ikonia, I don't like that idea
[11:25] <Seveas> feisty is where the shazam is
[11:25] <ikonia> Seveas: yes, it is a potential for disaster hence why I'm just tabling it
[11:26] <gnomefreak> remember freenode has a 20 channel policy
[11:26] <Seveas> don't want to move that from #ubuntu either :)
[11:26] <LjL> Seveas: that's because Ubuntu+1 isn't really a version that is *supposed* to have support - you're a tester, you're on your own, you need to realize that. #ubuntu+1 is there as a place for testers to discuss.
[11:26] <ikonia> gnomefreak: thats something I'm not aware of
[11:26] <gnomefreak> it does
[11:26] <Seveas> LjL, hammer --> nail
[11:26] <Seveas> :)
[11:26] <ikonia>  LjL thats so not what its used for
[11:26] <Seveas> ikonia, atm it's not used for anything :)
[11:26] <ikonia> Seveas: touche' at this moment
[11:27] <LjL> ikonia: that's the idea though, then of course people ask questions... but still
[11:27] <Seveas> I uploaded 7g of ubuntu in 1.5 days :)
[11:27] <ikonia> its only food for thought as today I saw a very bad morning for getting support, so many people not getting responses due to either a.) ubotu flooding b.) the same question from 10000 different people being asked over and over
[11:28] <ikonia> perhaps if today hadn't been a bad day for it I wouldn't have started pondering this
[11:29] <ikonia> due you guys have any thoughts for the future ways to get better input/output from #ubuntu  ?
[11:29] <LjL> ikonia, it *is* just one day after release after all
[11:29] <ikonia> LjL: yes, I did account for that
[11:30] <LjL> i'm not too unhappy with #ubuntu to be honest. i do have to say that i'm probably giving less support than i used to, and i figure that's because i get a bit tired of answering the same questions all day, among other things... but hey, that can't much be helped.
[11:31] <ikonia> ooooh I got a reply form Matthew Newton the PC world writer
[11:31] <nalioth> Seveas: one word: rtorrent
[11:32] <Seveas> !info rtorrent
[11:32] <ubotu> rtorrent: ncurses BitTorrent client based on LibTorrent. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.6.4-1 (feisty), package size 314 kB, installed size 860 kB
[11:32] <Seveas> what's so good about it?
[11:32] <gnomefreak> fake gui ;)
[11:32] <nalioth> Seveas: it's a lot nicer than btdownloadcurses
[11:32] <ikonia> would anyone be interested in the reply from Matthew Newton, its a bit weak
[11:32] <nalioth> no extra cpu hogging . .
[11:32] <ikonia> just in now
[11:32] <Seveas> ok, let's try :)
[11:33] <PriceChild> ikonia, @ubuntu.com
[11:33] <nalioth> Seveas: http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/wiki/RTorrentUserGuide
[11:33] <ikonia> PriceChild: pardon ?
[11:33] <ikonia> ahhh
[11:33] <PriceChild> ikonia, please forward :)
[11:33] <ikonia> sory I was slow
[11:33] <ikonia> sorry
[11:33] <gnomefreak> was this on the automatix issue?
[11:33] <nixternal> ahh, I love people who do that
[11:33] <gnomefreak> or somethng else
[11:33] <nixternal> ok, disregard that
[11:34] <nixternal> I was scrolled up reading another conversation that took place days ago ;p
[11:34] <gnomefreak> lol
[11:34] <nixternal> hours ago rather
[11:34] <Pici> I hate when that happens
[11:34] <nixternal> it was ikonia talking about the ati stuff and people expecting us to fix it
[11:34] <LjL> ah, hours... "days" got me scared :P
[11:34] <nixternal> great times, i give them the good ol /ignore
[11:34] <nixternal> ya, I meant hours
[11:34] <Burgwork> nixternal: your time until public humilation on the fridge is counting down :)
[11:34] <nixternal> jeesh, he is following me everywhere
[11:35] <nixternal> I have a translations package for kubuntu-docs that is holding me up ;p
[11:35] <ikonia> nixternal: did you enjoy that conversation ;)
[11:35] <nixternal> yes
[11:35] <ikonia> PriceChild: email sent
[11:38] <Seveas> not impressed with rtorrent
[11:38] <Seveas> not at all intuitive
[11:38] <Seveas> btdownloadcurses does not require a manual
[11:40] <LjL> !info aria2 | seveas
[11:40] <ubotu> seveas: aria2: High speed download utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.0-1 (feisty), package size 389 kB, installed size 1024 kB
[11:40] <LjL> so you've got one more
[11:40] <mneptok> btlaunchmanycurses.bittornado :)
[11:41] <nalioth> Seveas: bt* is a blunt instrument.  i used to use it all the time, until i found rtorrent (give rtorrent some time, it's easy and much nicer)
[11:41] <Seveas> I don't use torrents enough to care about that
[11:42] <ikonia> rsyncing a repo can you use the rsync --exclude option to exclude a whole branch with the * wildcard, eg: rsync rsync://archives.ubuntu.com/ubuntu --exclude warty*
[11:42] <ikonia> so far i'm excluding all the warty repo's by name, but is there a way to wildcard it ?
[11:49] <xt{c}> please unban me from #ubuntu, i am connected to port 8001 now
[11:49] <LjL> xt{c}: mind joining ##ljl for a little test?
[11:51] <LjL> xt{c}: sorted
[11:51] <xt{c}> thx
[12:03] <jrib> I couldn't figure out how to close rtorrent the first time i started it, it was worse than vim
[12:06] <Seveas> jrib, :D
[12:06] <Seveas> jrib, pretty much the same here
[12:06] <LjL> says the vi fanboy
[12:08] <Seveas> LjL, first time I started vim I ran away screaming
[12:08] <LjL> first time i started vim i just got very annoyed at not being able to quit aside from going to another term and typing kill -9, just like jrib said
[12:09] <Seveas> rtorrent is worse though
[12:25] <Jordan_U> I think that https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions needs to be added to the !ntfs-3g message for Feisty instructions