[12:44] <lamont> as opposed to letting the window manager do its job
[12:46] <Burgwork> lamont: maybe the window manager that the developer uses doesn't play nice?
[12:47] <lamont> it's still wrong
[12:47] <lamont> if I want it to have focus, I tell the wm to do it.  taking focus because you think you know more than the user or his window manager is wrong
[12:47] <lamont> fwiw, gaim does the same thing
[12:47] <lamont> equally b0rken, of course.
[12:48] <lamont> and most metacity users wouldn't notice it, since metacity does the same thing by default
[01:33] <cjwatson> ok, at least one jigdo (ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.jigdo) confirmed fixed
[01:33] <cjwatson> for those who reported jigdo problems
[01:33] <cjwatson> there are still six jigdo files I believe to be broken (ia64, sparc, source of various flavours), but I'm progressively fixing those too
[02:09] <elpargo> hi is the firefox .pc file missing in 7.04?
[02:11] <vustar> why does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyKnownIssues redirect to http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/704 ?
[02:20] <cjwatson> vustar: because it was a holding page for preparing that page on the website
[02:22] <vustar> cjwatson, where can I find the feisty's system requirement ?
[02:22] <vustar> cjwatson, thanks
[03:14] <jdub> http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/oreilly/radar/atom/~3/110729240/ubuntu_word_on.html
[03:14] <mtm8> Would anyone be able to help me figure out the d-i partman-auto/expert_recipe_file string /hd-media/recipe line that comes standard with the alternate CD installer for remastering purposes?
[03:14] <mtm8> 1) Where is /hd-media 2) How can I make a partition scheme as follows?: /dev/sda1: 128 M for /boot (ext2) with no disk space allocated for the super user with noauto,noatime options for mounting, /dev/sda2: 40 G for / with 3 percent disk space allocated for the super user and defaults,errors=remount-ro options for mounting, /dev/sda3: 11 G extended partition, /dev/sda4: an NTFS partition that isn't mounted, /dev/sda5: 1 G swap, /dev/sda6: 10 G (ext3) partitio
[03:25] <mtm8> Does anyone know how to setup a preseed file for a remastered alternate CD so that it partitions in the following manner?
[03:25] <mtm8> /dev/sda1: 128 M (ext2) mounted as /boot with 0% reserved for superuser and noauto,noatime mount options; /dev/sda2: 40 G (ext3) mounted as / with 3% reserved for superuser and defaults,errors=remount-ro mount options; /dev/sda3: 11 G extended partition; /dev/sda4: NTFS partition, not mounted; /dev/sda5: 1 G for swap; /dev/sda6: 10 G (ext3) mounted as /home/DOMAIN with 0% reserved for superuser and defaults,grpquota mount options
[03:45] <sonictwin> how cani edit the applications - places - system menu?
[03:45] <sonictwin> under places - i want to remove two folders that were dragged there mistakenly
[03:45] <Burgundavia> sonictwin: #ubuntu for support, but you can right click on it
[03:46] <sonictwin> right clicking it just opens it
[03:46] <Burgundavia> then I cannot help you
[03:46] <sonictwin> ty though
[07:53] <Fjodor> fabbione: ping?
[08:01] <fabbione> Fjodor: pong
[08:04] <Fjodor> fabbione: Would you be coming to rhus today?
[08:05] <fabbione> Fjodor: no sorry. I am not feeling good.
[08:06] <Fjodor> fabbione: Oh, sorry to hear (on both counts). I do hope you get better then
[08:06] <fabbione> Fjodor: thanks
[08:06] <ion_> tzdata (2007e-0ubuntu0.6.10~prop1) edgy-proposed; urgency=low
[08:06] <ion_>     - Introduces two new time zones (America/Indiana/Winamac and America/Resolute).
[08:07] <ion_> Winamac sounds like an Apple campaign. :-)
[08:07] <StevenK> Hah
[08:17] <Treenaks> ion_: maybe it is :)
[08:17] <ion_> :-)
[08:19] <Treenaks> ion_: though it's next to Star City, according to google
[08:19] <Treenaks> (though I doubt it's the same Star City as the Russians use to train cosmonauts ;))
[08:56] <mdke> cjwatson_: just responded to your comment on bug 84273
[08:56] <ubotu> Malone bug 84273 in ubuntu-website "hash for feisty on the md5sum page" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84273
[09:00] <ion_> benc: Hi. You might have noticed already, but anyway: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_100.14.03.html Added support for GeForce 8600 GTS, GeForce 8600 GT, GeForce 8500 GT, GeForce 8400 GS, and GeForce 8300 GS
[09:00] <jsgotangco> the bugs! the bugs!
[09:01] <ion_> benc: And at the same time they changed the version number format. :-)
[09:01] <tepsipakki> ion_: the free driver also got support for those (2.0.2)
[09:02] <tepsipakki> hm, actually only 8500/8600
[09:04] <tepsipakki> ah, 8300/8400 support is in git
[09:04] <tepsipakki> "support" being the pci-id's
[09:05] <ion_> treenaks: Hear, hear
[09:05] <Burgundavia> tepsipakki: what do you think of this xorg/HAL stuff?
[09:06] <tepsipakki> Burgundavia: input-hotplug?
[09:06] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: and display-hotplug
[09:06] <ion_> I(m going to) *love* that functionality.
[09:06] <Mithrandir> so, anybody running gutsy yet? :-P
[09:07] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: you? colin? :P
[09:07] <tepsipakki> Burgundavia: I've been following the thread.. but don't have an opinion of my own yet :)
[09:07] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I'm not doing it yet.
[09:07] <Burgundavia> tepsipakki: opensource, easy to use, multiseat is something I am looking forward too
[09:07] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: there's just tzdata for now :)
[09:07] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: I know, I just accepted it.
[09:08] <tepsipakki> hehe
[09:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i do :)))
[09:53] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl
[10:01] <sabdfl> hey jsgotangco, how's life in the East?
[10:02] <ajmitch> hey sabdfl, celebrated feisty release in style?
[10:02] <bhale> hi sabdfl, ajmitch 
[10:02] <ajmitch> hi bhale 
[10:05] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: 36C here at the moment..ouch
[10:05] <Hobbsee> nice and warm :)
[10:06] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: 87% humidity
[10:06] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: now that's a bit much
[10:06] <ajmitch> ah, winter is approaching then? :)
[10:07] <jsgotangco> we average 60% humidity since summer came
[10:07] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: w.r.t running gutsy - does pbuilder count?
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: no. :-P
[10:07] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: awww, darn
[10:07] <StevenK> I'm not running Feisty yet.
[10:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: catch up then!
[10:07] <StevenK> Soon.
[10:08] <ajmitch> morning Mithrandir 
[10:08] <Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch 
[10:09] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: welcome to the sauna
[10:09] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Recovered after the Feisty release?
[10:10] <Mithrandir> StevenK: getting there.
[10:10] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: tell you what...i'll swap your weather with ours
[10:10] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Hey, it's 20 degrees, it's pleasant at the moment.
[10:10] <Hobbsee> bah
[10:13] <StevenK> Download all files that we need to get (42359 MiB).
[10:13] <StevenK> I already have that much locally debmirror, kthxbye
[10:14] <ajmitch> hm
[10:15] <ajmitch> next billing cycle in 3 days
[10:15] <ajmitch> I wonder how much I went over this month
[10:15] <ajmitch> ah, painful
[10:16] <ion_> Over what?
[10:16] <Hobbsee> whisky tango foxtrot...this idea is just getting more and more bizarre...
[10:16] <StevenK> Hah
[10:17] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Which?
[10:18] <Hobbsee> StevenK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-April/000763.html
[10:18] <Hobbsee> (the latest post hasnt shown up there yet, i dont think)
[10:18] <StevenK> That meta-distro thing?
[10:18] <Hobbsee> oh, yes it has
[10:18] <Hobbsee> yep
[10:18] <Hobbsee> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-April/000774.html is the last, and doesnt appear to be threaded
[10:19] <Hobbsee> something tells me if ubuntu says "hi, we're going to take over the entire linux world, adn call it ubuntu"...most people wont be terribly pleased...
[10:19] <StevenK> Um. Eww
[10:28] <mneptok> "Ubuntu has bees so successful as a user-friendly Linux distribution that I think it's time to see tho community wark on projects like intercontinental railroad logistics or unassisted human flight."
[10:28] <mneptok> *been
[10:29] <Mithrandir> morning mneptok 
[10:30] <Hobbsee> hi mneptok 
[10:49] <mneptok> mornin'
[10:50] <mneptok> shifting the sleep cycle this weekend.
[10:51] <ajmitch> hey mneptok 
[10:51] <Mithrandir> woo, gutsy binutils building.
[10:51] <mneptok> heya ajmitch 
[10:53] <Mithrandir> probably won't make this publisher run, though
[10:53] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: pedal faster, and it might!  :D
[10:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: s/feisty/gusty/ perhaps?
[10:54] <ajmitch> yeah, habit :)
[10:54] <lifeless> is dapper meant to auto-detect the upgrade to fisty?
[10:54] <mneptok> heehee. a "gusty" from Hobbsee O:)
[10:55] <ajmitch> it'll take a few weeks to break
[10:55] <ivoks> lifeless: no
[10:55] <Hobbsee> er, gutsy
[10:55] <mpt> fisty and gusty
[10:55] <ajmitch> that misspelling probably won't stop :)
[10:55] <Hobbsee> no.  as long as we all get it right in changelogs
[10:55] <Hobbsee> or dch gets updated :)
[10:56] <mneptok> Flatulent Fawn. Gusty Gibbon.
[10:56] <mpt> Wordy, Hairy, Bronzy, Dipper, Itchy, Fisty, Gusty
[10:56] <mpt> These are the releases of the starship Ubutnu
[10:56] <mneptok> i saw Farting Monkey Release on their '92 tour. great show.
[10:57] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: There are new devscripts/vim/etc in UNAPPROVED, so I presume that's already been done.
[10:57] <mneptok> ooo! better yet. as a label to some big lever inside a commercial airliner.
[10:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: great :)
[10:57] <bryce> Gutty Gibbs, the next new Quake enhancement
[10:58] <mpt> http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oz/images/vc13.jpg
[10:58] <ajmitch> bryce: I heard you got suckered into X?
[10:58] <mneptok> mpt: and your little dog, too!
[10:59] <bryce> heh
[10:59] <mneptok> bryce: BTW, where in OR?
[10:59] <bryce> ajmitch: tell me what the punchline is here?
[10:59] <bryce> mneptok: Tigard (near Beaverton)
[10:59] <ajmitch> :)
[11:00] <mneptok> bryce: Canonical moved me to Montreal from Cedar Hills Blvd. area in B-tron
[11:00] <ajmitch> just looking at the motto of the x-swat team :)
[11:00] <bryce> ajmitch: previously I'd been doing NFSv4 testing, so Xorg maintaining seems pretty thrilling in comparison ;-)
[11:00] <ajmitch> yes, it certainly would
[11:00] <bryce> mneptok: wow
[11:01] <mneptok> bryce: X.org maintenance + long, sunless winters = worriod mnep
[11:01] <mneptok> *worried
[11:01] <mneptok> bryce: kees is in SE
[11:01] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:01] <bryce> yup
[11:01] <mneptok> and i get to travel to exotic PDX for Ulive
[11:02] <mneptok> i guess it will be nice to see friends, but Seville sounds so much more interseting.
[11:02] <mneptok> although Seville doesn't have Powell's
[11:02] <mpt> ajmitch, is <http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/appinfo.html?csaid=8BAD38809EB97475> similar to what you were working on?
[11:03] <ajmitch> mpt: yes, similar to what I'm still working on :)
[11:03] <Mithrandir> bryce: oh, so you'll make sure our NFSv4 support is great too? :-)
[11:03] <bryce> heh
[11:03] <Mithrandir> bryce: excellent, since then I don't have to. ;-)
[11:03] <mpt> ajmitch, is it complicated, or do you have very little free time, or both?
[11:03] <ajmitch> mpt: both at the moment
[11:03] <mpt> ok
[11:03] <ajmitch> hopefully #2 will improve a lot soon
[11:04] <ajmitch> I'm not entirely sure what the SoC project is proposing besides an easy way to setup FDS
[11:04] <ajmitch> which really requires packages
[11:05] <Mithrandir> it looks like the wrong solution.  "Write a program to make it easy to set up FDS" rather than just "Make it easier to set up FDS".
[11:05] <bryce> Mithrandir: unfortunately the test lab I'd built for nfsv4 is scheduled for demolition/ebay soon
[11:05] <mpt> Every time someone adds another item to Ubuntu's Administration menu, God kills a kitten
[11:05] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: I presume the student will end up changing the project a bit
[11:06] <mneptok> oh my god. i just realized i'll be seeing iwj vs. Powell's!
[11:06] <mneptok> this will be epic.
[11:08] <mpt> (That was poorly worded, sorry)
[11:08] <lifeless> FDS?
[11:08] <ajmitch> fedora directory server
[11:08] <bryce> mpt, did you mean every time god kills a kitten, another entry appears in Ubuntu's Administration menu?  I can confirm that.
[11:09] <ajmitch> formerly netscape
[11:10] <mpt> bryce, no, that would mean solely US kitten deaths would cause 4,763,225 items to appear in Ubuntu's Administration menu per year
[11:11] <bryce> you're not seeing that?
[11:11] <mpt> Not so much
[11:11] <bryce> huh
[11:12] <mpt> What I was trying to say was, when there's a GUI for something missing from Ubuntu, people's instinct isn't "where would the GUI make the most sense", but "I know, I'll make a new program for configuring this"
[11:16] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: nfsv4 works just fine on ubuntu, it's kerberos that makes me pull my hair off sometimes (some software not designed to handle $HOME becoming inaccessible)
[11:17] <ajmitch> tepsipakki: but kerberos is so much fun :)
[11:18] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: no doubt ;)
[11:18] <tepsipakki> it only breaks usability somewhat
[11:18] <bryce> throw automounter into the mix there too
[11:18] <ajmitch> tepsipakki: tickets expiring?
[11:19] <bryce> ajmitch: well, even just troubleshooting why you don't get the auth in the first place can be hard to figure out
[11:19] <bryce> nfsv4 error messages can be rather esoteric
[11:19] <ajmitch> true, but I imagine that a kerberos ticket expiring when you need it for $HOME could make your day awkward
[11:20] <sladen> cjwatson_: the jidgo format /is/ described somewhere---it's a list of literal data and checksums
[11:20] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: yep
[11:20] <sladen> cjwatson_: the checksums are MD5sum but not in the standard hex format (no no, NIH is so much better)
[11:21] <sladen> cjwatson_: never mind it was scroll-locked from a couple of days ago
[11:28] <tepsipakki> ajmitch: gnome-screensaver can handle refreshing the ticket, if pam_krb5 is set up, but gconfd/gnome-settings-daemon can get confused when $HOME is not accessible
[11:39] <maswan> ajmitch: it's mostly browsers that break, I have a "find .mozilla -name '*lock* |xargs rm" handy for when firefox crashes.
[11:40] <ajmitch> how evil
[11:40] <maswan> I have my $HOME in afs at work
[11:42] <maswan> oh, and I've recently had cause to run gaim for a jabber conference thingie, and that keeps silently hanging every other night
[11:43] <maswan> if someone else gets hit by this, i guess we should start submitting bugs then. :)
[11:43] <ajmitch> of course :)
[11:44] <ajmitch> what broke?
[11:45] <ajmitch> bad server change?
[11:45] <\sh> ajmitch: still my vmware prob..tested with  1.0.0 and 1.0.2 same shit different version
[11:45] <ajmitch> ah
[11:45] <\sh> /usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)
[11:46] <\sh> is the error...and I don't find anyway to stop that .. VMWARE_USE_SHIPPED_GTK=force vmware doesn't work either...it just doesn't start up
[11:47] <\sh> does anyone know if a intel dual core t2050 supports x86_64?
[11:54] <ajmitch> hm, no headers for the running kernel on the laptpo
[11:55] <\sh> ajmitch: you need vmware-any-any-update109.tar.gz
[11:55] <ajmitch> no, I need to upgrade & reboot into the released feisty kernel
[11:55] <ajmitch> still running -13
[11:55] <\sh> and those people from intel removed the specs for intel core duo t2050 somehow..
[12:13] <Treenaks> \sh: they seem to have removed all Core (1) Duo stuff.. I can only find core 2 duo things
[01:03] <mastroDani> hi. I have some question on the libata for ata disk you used from edgy in ubuntu. ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibAtaForAtaDisks ) i would like to know why you choosen to use this, what are the advantage? do you know it's not possible to tweak the disk setting with hdparm anymore? i'm a bit concerned on security of the system too.. if you choosen to do a think like this MUST be a good reason, and i want to know w
[01:03] <mastroDani> hat this good reason is.. thanks
[02:23] <SoftIce> where is the best place to find out what development or better yet why no development for vserver has been intergrated into ubuntu fesity?
[02:24] <SoftIce> #ubuntu people don't know shit
[02:28] <elkbuntu> insulting people will not get answers
[02:28] <Hobbsee> SoftIce: think about it.  it's probably not done because someone hasnt done it.  why dont you be that someone?
[02:29] <Hobbsee> lifeless: *grin*
[02:31] <SoftIce> elkbuntu was its fscking frustrating seeking help and nobody can answer you
[02:32] <SoftIce> and I have no problem building an ubuntu server kernel for vserver, i just wanted answers
[02:32] <SoftIce> was/well
[02:33] <elkbuntu> SoftIce, it is still not an excuse to insult people. We have a code of conduct in this community and it'd be nice if you could respect it
[02:33] <Hobbsee> SoftIce: if you'd actually looked, you would have seen that there are 1300 or so people in that channel - if yours is a corner case question, it probably wont get answered.
[02:34] <SoftIce> Hobbsee: i've spent numerous amounts of time helping people in that channel, I feel its only fair that I get some answers.
[02:35] <SoftIce> otherwise, what is the point of that saying, you scratch my back I...
[02:35] <Hobbsee> SoftIce: think about it - it's more likely that people didnt know, because you were asking about something not-well-known, rather than you being ignored
[02:35] <lifeless> so
[02:36] <SoftIce> ok, sorry. i'm in the wrong.. 
[02:36] <SoftIce> just frustrated.. sorry once again
[02:36] <Hobbsee> did you check google?
[02:37] <\sh> Xen packages are in the archives...vserver is a special case which isn't touched actively for ubuntu afaik...
[02:37] <mastroDani> hi. I have some question on the libata for ata disk you used from edgy in ubuntu. ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibAtaForAtaDisks ) i would like to know why you choosen to use this, what are the advantage? do you know it's not possible to tweak the disk setting with hdparm anymore? i'm a bit concerned on security of the system too.. if you choosen to do a think like this MUST be a good reason, and i want to know w
[02:37] <mastroDani> hat this good reason is.. thanks
[02:39] <mpt> mastroDani, you may well have better luck getting an answer to that question by posting to the ubuntu-devel-discuss@ mailing list
[02:39] <mastroDani> mpt, i know.. but i already follow a lot of mailing list.. can't stand another one
[02:39] <james_w> mastroDani: there is a Rationale section in the page that you linked to.
[02:40] <mdke> mastroDani: you can try using a web frontend to the mailing list to avoid subscribing. Try news.gmane.org
[02:40] <mastroDani> if somebody can adress me to the guy that taken the decision i will contact him directly
[02:40] <ion_> I havent really studied the actual reasons behind the move to libata, but id assume it is to get a common interface for all block devices. Yes, hdparm can be used. I dont see any security implications.
[02:40] <mastroDani> mdke, tnx for the advice...
[02:40] <mastroDani> i've not much time... but i will
[02:43] <mastroDani> ion_, hdparm can't be used, i've tried it
[02:43] <mastroDani> ion_, it say something like: this kind of action isn't supported by the device type
[02:43] <james_w> mastroDani: have you tried sdparm?
[02:43] <mastroDani> james_w, as for i know sdparm is a read-only tool for now
[02:44] <mastroDani> that's why i think that the decision to use or not libata should be left to the user..
[02:44] <mastroDani> this means having 2 different kernel to choose from "with" and "without" libata
[02:45] <ion_> mastrodani: Whats the action youre trying to do with hdparm? Just retrieve values, or set something specific?
[02:47] <mastroDani> ion_, setting some specifick, optimized one, for my disk
[02:48] <ion_> mastrodani: Have you made a bug report?
[02:48] <mastroDani> before edgy i have a setting on /etc/hdparm.conf on /dev/hda ... not it's useless.. i've tried setting the same to /dev/sda without the same result
[02:48] <mastroDani> ion_, no.. this is a decision taken a while ago, so i think that a "bug report" it's not the best thing.. i want to talk to the guy(s) that taken this decision before, to understand why
[02:49] <ion_> libata is the way to go, period. If theres a regression with some (perhaps rarely used) feature, its a bug but not a reason to stay with the worse solution forever.
[02:50] <mastroDani> james_w, you see.. the rationale section on that link say it is simplier to use only one system... my objection is this: we pay on performance for keeping things simplier to the developers (how much simplier? not much i think)
[02:51] <ion_> we pay on performance seems to be somewhat unfounded statement.
[02:51] <mastroDani> ion_, i think libata it's not ready for this, when it will be completely "as if" you are not using it then it will be ready
[02:51] <mastroDani> ion_, i can't use hdparm anymore, so i pay on performance
[02:52] <ion_> mastrodani: Have you filed a bug report?
[02:53] <mastroDani> ion_, as i told you before, i want to talk to the guy that token this decision before filing a bug
[02:55] <ogra> there is no such guy
[02:55] <ogra> file a bug
[02:59] <mastroDani> ogra, ok...
[02:59] <mastroDani> i think that it will be ignored but i will
[02:59] <Amaranth> mastroDani: So don't make the bug 'revert the change to libata'
[03:00] <ogra> mastroDani, specs are never decided by a single person .... its a week of discussion in the group of developers that goes before that 
[03:00] <Amaranth> Your specific problem is that a specific hdparm option doesn't work anymore
[03:00] <Amaranth> that's what the bug report should say
[03:00] <ogra> the rationale is pretty clear stated in the spec wikipage btw
[03:00] <ogra> the old implementation will go away ... 
[03:01] <Amaranth> Using one subsystem for all storage devices makes things much simpler
[03:01] <ogra> that as well
[03:01] <Amaranth> And yeah, this would happen eventually anyway because upstream is doing it
[03:03] <mastroDani> phone
[03:06] <mastroDani> Amaranth, i don't see this "simplier".. ones a disk as been recognized and mounted you can use it in the same way, IDE o SCSI doesn't matter anymore
[03:07] <mastroDani> Amaranth, anyway tnx.. i will file this bug
[03:07] <Amaranth> mastroDani: Less duplication of code
[03:07] <Amaranth> mastroDani: Instead of having similar code for every type of storage device they all share a common base
[03:07] <ogra> less duplication f maintenance tools ;)
[03:07] <jmg>  OMFG SLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:07] <Amaranth> and common bug fixes :)
[03:07] <ogra> as you can see with hdparm 
[03:08] <jmg> oopz.... wrong chan 
[03:11] <mastroDani> Amaranth, i see your point of view, but i always think that is more important the final result than the this
[03:12] <mastroDani> ogra, it's right.. but in this case: FIRST wait that sdparm is ready to do anything hdparm can do.. and than change it
[03:12] <mastroDani> not before
[03:12] <Amaranth> It's impossible to have zero regressions unless you stop coding completely
[03:13] <Amaranth> I'm willing to accept short-term regressions in functionality for long-term benefits
[03:13] <ogra> mastroDani, well, instead of having the problem in gutsy because upstream made the switch you have it now ...
[03:20] <mastroDani> well guys.. thanks for your time and goodbye
[03:24] <mdke> hmm. I go away on holiday, come back and find that nautilus has gone away on holiday too and taken my desktop with it
[03:24] <StevenK> Heh
[03:25] <Hobbsee> mdke: you didnt *really* want nautilus and your desktop, did you?
[03:25] <mdke> Hobbsee: no, no. I'm just being picky
[03:26] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:28] <mdke> ah, the classic rm -rf ~/.nautilus has done the trick
[03:44] <cjwatson> mdke: I've replied again on the hash thing. I'm sorry but that is desperately, desperately bogus.
[03:45] <cjwatson> straightforward instructions for checking MD5SUMS.gpg would be infinitely better than people trusting hashes published on a wiki page
[03:47] <mdke> cjwatson: ok thanks; but it was the solution elmo recommended
[03:48] <cjwatson> I'll talk to elmo, it's hideously wrrong
[03:48] <mdke> cjwatson: digging out the bug now
[03:48] <cjwatson> I'll see elmo in the London office on Monday
[03:49] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM does not even mention gpg
[03:49] <cjwatson> anyway, weekend
[03:49] <mdke> cjwatson: ok! I'll leave it to you (footnote - that wiki page is only editable by me and newz)
[03:50] <mdke> still your solution is better anyway
[03:51] <cjwatson> ok, I hadn't realised it was an immutable page, which makes it a bit less awfl
[03:51] <mdke> ;)
[03:52] <mdke> still, you're right that there is nothing on that wiki to indicate to users how reliable a page is
[03:52] <StevenK> mdke: That's a problem inherient to wikis.
[03:52] <StevenK> mdke: Case in point, Wikipedia
[03:53] <mdke> StevenK: wikipedia does a very good job of indicating how reliable its editors consider a page to be, which is much better than ours. But in this case, it's a rather different question
[03:55] <StevenK> mdke: (on Wikipedia) But only to a point. How do you propose this is fixed/addressed for {help,wiki}.u.c?
[03:55] <mdke> StevenK: in a similar way. The (unloved) spec is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance
[03:57] <StevenK> mdke: Looks sensible.
[03:57] <StevenK> But being sensible doesn't help a spec get implemented. :_)
[03:57] <mdke> StevenK: that's right
[03:58] <mdke> needs a coder interested in documentation, or a webmaster with a bit of time on his hands. Both are quite rare beasts
[04:28] <rburton> hm
[04:28] <rburton> seeking keybuk
[05:19] <elpargo> hi how can I get the compiler flags used to build an official ubuntu package?
[05:20] <ivoks> i see you are a gentoo user :)
[05:20] <ivoks> every package has debian/ subdir in its source
[05:20] <ivoks> there's a rules file in which building of a package is defined
[05:21] <elpargo> ivoks, yes but my gentoo box die a while ago and I haven't been able to get some time to rebuild it :(
[05:21] <elpargo> ivoks, but that's in the src package right?
[05:22] <ivoks> elpargo: yes
[05:22] <StevenK> Could that be because it takes 3 days to install Gentoo?
[05:22] <elpargo> umm ok let me go get that one
[05:23] <elpargo> StevenK, of course specially when you need to compile X and it fails 
[05:23] <elpargo> but it's worth it I will have fix this issue I had hours ago if I where in gentoo...
[05:23] <ivoks> all gentoo users and doko should get them selfs a t-shirt "I compile OpenOffice, do you?"
[05:23] <ivoks> :)
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> openoffice.org-bin
[05:24] <elpargo> as bluefoxicy says I use that bin, well actually I don't use it much but yes bin package are in the tree too
[05:25] <ivoks> when i used it, i compiled everything
[05:25] <bluefoxicy> I have 2 gigs of RAM and don't want to use OOo ;)
[05:25] <mjr> bluefoxicy, but it's not about the memory anymore at that point :] 
[05:25] <ivoks> soon i could throw my battery in trash... then i diched gentoo :)
[05:26] <elpargo> ok stupid question where can I get hte src package?
[05:26] <ivoks> apt-get source [name of the package] 
[05:27] <elpargo> what I like about gentoo is flexibility, I almost want to format my machine when I try to delete some program I don't use and it tries to take "ubuntu-desktop" along with it
[05:27] <elpargo> oh didn't knew of that switch 
[05:28] <ivoks> ubuntu-desktop is matapackage for collection of programs
[05:28] <elpargo> E: Unable to find a source package for vlc
[05:28] <ivoks> removing it, your desktop doesn't lose anything (in short run)
[05:29] <Treenaks> ivoks: well, a few files in /var/lib/dpkg/ ;)
[05:29] <elpargo> ivoks, "in short run" :)
[05:29] <ivoks> well, you have to enable source repositories in sources.list
[05:29] <ivoks> elpargo: yes, when you dist upgrade to newer version, ubuntu-desktop could depend on some other packages
[05:31] <elpargo> umm gack I just can't get into .deb they are too messy :)
[05:31] <StevenK> Messy?!
[05:31] <ivoks> lol
[05:31] <elpargo> ivoks, I got deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ feisty restricted
[05:31] <ivoks> maybe "i don't understand", but messy... :)
[05:32] <elpargo> ohh ok nm
[05:32] <StevenK> elpargo: You probably want more sections than just restricted. :-)
[05:32] <elpargo> StevenK, yup that's why the nm :)
[05:32] <StevenK> Ah. :-)
[05:32] <elpargo> yes deb package are messy ebuild's are beautiful 
[05:32] <ivoks> universe is what you need for vlc
[05:33] <StevenK> But ebuilds are just a shell script. They don't contain either source or binaries.
[05:33] <ivoks> you can't compase deb and ebuild; totaly diferent things
[05:33] <StevenK> And what ivoks said.
[05:33] <ivoks> compare
[05:34] <elpargo> StevenK, not really with the patches dir and such, I was refering to the emerge system for example all the "helper" eclass,etc. 
[05:34] <elpargo> StevenK, ivoks starting with the 10 or so files you need for a deb src package 
[05:35] <ivoks> right; those files define much more than ebuild
[05:35] <elpargo> ivoks, like?
[05:40] <elpargo> today is my lucky day Failed to fetch http://do.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vlc/vlc_0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-1ubuntu1.dsc  Could not open file vlc_0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-1ubuntu1.dsc - open (13 Permission denied) [IP: 91.189.88.40 80] 
[05:40] <elpargo> F
[05:40] <ivoks> descriptions, dependecies, debconf rules, package relations, conffiles, ond source can contain multiple packages, can contain maintaners own binaries (like pixmaps), patches, etc...
[05:40] <ivoks> sorry, wasn't here for a moment...
[05:41] <ivoks> elpargo: opens for me
[05:41] <elpargo> ivoks, don't know how long ago you used ebuilds but all that is in the ebuild file, except debconf :)
[05:42] <ivoks> and package relations
[05:42] <ivoks> and conffiles
[05:42] <elpargo> well the patches are in a special dir and referenced 
[05:42] <ivoks> and patches..
[05:42] <ivoks> :D
[05:42] <elpargo> package relations are calculated by the engine, all you need to say is who you need as usual 
[05:43] <elpargo> +USE flags which noone else has
[05:43] <ivoks> right...
[05:45] <elpargo> all my problems will be solve with media-video/vlc python in /etc/package.use :)
[05:46] <elpargo> is this what you where refering to http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/v/vlc/vlc_0.8.6.release-0ubuntu4.dsc I see no build flags there
[05:48] <ivoks> no, this is a description file
[05:49] <elpargo> ok the debsrc is downloading now 
where r src package installed?</stupidquestion>
[05:55] <elpargo> huh pwd?? why?
[05:56] <ivoks> it's not installed
[05:56] <ivoks> it's downloaded
[05:56] <elpargo> yes that I notice still weird
[05:57] <ivoks> different, not weird
[05:57] <ivoks> someone likes red, someone blue; they aren't weird, altough we all know black is the best :D
[05:59] <jdong> don't be a poet.
[05:59] <jdong> you'd be good rhyming competition to emily dickinson.
[05:59] <bhale> black is the best.
[06:00] <ivoks> i wasn't trying to be a poest :)
[06:00] <ivoks> poet
[06:06] <elpargo> :) is there such a think as a "ubuntu deb developer guide"?
[06:06] <elpargo> something ala http://devmanual.gentoo.org/
[06:07] <sharms> elpargo: tons.
[06:07] <sharms> elpargo: first, your source for all answers + information is at wiki.ubuntu.com
[06:07] <sharms> elpargo: you get this search free though, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/
[06:07] <`23meg> elpargo, there's the debian new maintainer's guide
[06:07] <elpargo> sharms, is there any canonical source? ubuntu always has tons of stuff half of it is useless (no offence)
[06:08] <sharms> elpargo: that is the source, and everyone who works on Ubuntu uses it as a reference. 
[06:08] <`23meg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[06:08] <elpargo> thanks `23meg sharms 
[06:09] <sharms> elpargo: if you do find a link that is "totally useless", msg me personally
[06:10] <elpargo> sharms, http://ubuntuforums.org/ :)
[06:11] <elpargo> anything related to getting vlc or mplayer working in firefox 
[06:11] <sharms> elpargo: we were on the subject of development documentation.  You are referring to issues that are #ubuntu solvable.
[06:12] <elpargo> sharms, yes that was a joke 
[06:14] <jdong> "a distro compiled for i386 costs majorly in speed, in ways that show up in normal desktop use."
[06:14] <jdong> looks like a digg user commented on slashdot :D
[06:26] <poningru> rofl
[06:43] <salty-horse> hi. I think the signatures on libnm-glib-dev in feisty are out of date. i can't authenticate it :/
[07:36] <codeyman> After I build a package with dpkg -b, where is it saved?
[07:36] <bhale> one level above the source tree
[07:36] <bhale> eg ..
[07:37] <codeyman> sridhar@pico:~/Desktop$ sudo dpkg -b  helix-player-1.0.8/
[07:37] <codeyman> dpkg-deb: building package `mozilla-helix-player' in `helix-player-1.0.8/.deb'.
[07:37] <codeyman> I cant find the deb package now :(
[07:37] <bhale> find /home/codeyman -name "*.deb"
[07:37] <bhale> ?
[07:38] <bhale> dpkg-buildpackage puts the debs one level above the source tree
[07:38] <bhale> and is probably what you want rather than dpkg -b
[07:39] <codeyman> oh k..
[07:39] <bhale> 'dpkg-buildpackages -rfakeroot' in the unpacked source
[07:40] <codeyman> there is a .deb in the directory
[07:40] <bhale> well there it is :)
[07:41] <codeyman> gee.. thanks... ".deb "  i hope dpkg -i .deb should take care of the rest??
[07:47] <bhale> dpkg -i /path/to/my.deb ... sure
[09:20] <nixternal> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/704tour
[09:21] <nixternal> the network manager info, someone just told me that it doesn't look like that on their machine
[09:28] <mr_pouit> nixternal: it looks like that here (gnome) :|
[10:01] <grayman> well
[10:01] <grayman> it don't look like that if you don't have wireless
[10:02] <grayman> you got wired network and then goes "manual configuration"
[10:02] <grayman> that's about it
[10:40] <Lutin> Mithrandir: around ?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> Lutin: now I am