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| txwikinger | @schedule London | 09:06 |
|---|---|---|
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/London: 21 Apr 18:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 21:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 21:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 09:06 |
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| popey | @schedule | 03:40 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 21 Apr 17:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 03:40 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Support Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | ||
| theCore | So, who is here for the support team meeting? | 06:53 |
| popey | o/ | 06:54 |
| popey | in and out and around about | 06:54 |
| theCore | that's good | 06:54 |
| marianom | theCore: I'm here for the meeting | 06:54 |
| popey | kids bath time so it's a busy time in this house :S | 06:54 |
| marianom | hi popey | 06:55 |
| theCore | hi marianom | 06:55 |
| marianom | hi theCore | 06:55 |
| popey | not sure how much I will be able to contribute, sorry | 06:55 |
| theCore | popey, that's okay | 06:56 |
| theCore | hopefully, more people will show up | 06:56 |
| === popey wonders how many people are on the helpteam mailing list | ||
| === theCore starts counting | ||
| popey | mailman will tell you | 06:58 |
| popey | dunno who is the admin of the list tho | 06:58 |
| theCore | 30 | 06:58 |
| theCore | it's me | 06:58 |
| popey | people who have posted or subscribers? | 06:58 |
| theCore | subscribers | 06:58 |
| popey | thats not a lot is it | 06:58 |
| popey | :( | 06:58 |
| theCore | that's start | 06:59 |
| popey | quite low traffic list, we need to pimp it (as jono would say) | 06:59 |
| theCore | *a start | 06:59 |
| theCore | yeah but right now time is the problem for me | 07:00 |
| theCore | that's why I want to get new admin | 07:00 |
| popey | to admin the list? | 07:01 |
| popey | I'll volunteer if needed. I have some experience in that area | 07:01 |
| theCore | moderator on the list, and admin on lp | 07:01 |
| theCore | the list don't take much of my time | 07:02 |
| theCore | what I am looking for is someone for motivating the "troops" | 07:02 |
| popey | :) | 07:03 |
| popey | well, I am giving a session during the open week next week all about support - specifically the answer tracker in launchpad | 07:03 |
| popey | maybe we could get some people in that way? | 07:03 |
| popey | push the help team | 07:03 |
| theCore | sure, that would certainly be a great idea | 07:04 |
| marianom | do you guys find there's not enough people answering? | 07:04 |
| theCore | marianom, depends | 07:04 |
| jsgotangco | hmm, didn't know there was a support team :) | 07:04 |
| jsgotangco | (hi btw) | 07:04 |
| theCore | jsgotangco, hi | 07:04 |
| marianom | hi jsgotangco | 07:04 |
| popey | marianom: answering on the ubuntu-users mailing list, forums, irc or answer tracker? | 07:04 |
| marianom | popey: answer tracker. i find the others pretty cover and I considered answer tracker was exactly the same. | 07:05 |
| popey | yeah, i think the answer tracker isnt very well known | 07:06 |
| popey | which is one reason for the session next week | 07:06 |
| jsgotangco | its quite solid for this release though | 07:06 |
| popey | to promote its use amongst people with problems, but also with people who are wanting to help | 07:06 |
| marianom | what I think we need is a little bit of more organization. e.g. we need statistics of what people is asking so we can, for example, feed the documentation team. | 07:07 |
| popey | indeed | 07:07 |
| theCore | marianom, exactly | 07:07 |
| popey | I am trying to pull together what people are asking so I can create screencasts that are useful | 07:08 |
| marianom | I think forums can provide that with the tag system but I fail see a good reporting system in lp | 07:08 |
| txwikinger | hi folks.. sorry for being late | 07:08 |
| marianom | hi txwikinger | 07:08 |
| popey | hey txwikinger | 07:08 |
| theCore | marianom, in fact, reporting frequently to the docteam is my primary project, I want to accomplish | 07:08 |
| marianom | theCore: ok. | 07:09 |
| theCore | hi txwikinger | 07:09 |
| theCore | however, I ain't sure how we could do that efficiently | 07:09 |
| theCore | tag support in the answer tracker? | 07:10 |
| popey | speak to Matthew East, mdke on irc, he might be the best person to talk to about that theCore | 07:10 |
| marianom | theCore: I was thinking about that | 07:10 |
| popey | i believe tag support is coming | 07:10 |
| popey | there are a few new features that we will be talking about in the open week next week | 07:11 |
| txwikinger | maybe as well that we can change the package | 07:11 |
| marianom | txwikinger: great idea. users asking generally use the wrong clasificacion, IMHO | 07:11 |
| popey | should we start going through the items on the agenda | 07:12 |
| popey | ? | 07:12 |
| theCore | the first thing, I would like to get done today is defining some sort of support guidelines/standard | 07:12 |
| theCore | popey, yes | 07:12 |
| popey | a how-to for support people? | 07:13 |
| txwikinger | Maybe as well a little bit the goal | 07:13 |
| theCore | popey, yes | 07:13 |
| txwikinger | here it is far more difficult than in commercial technical support | 07:14 |
| popey | txwikinger: agreed | 07:14 |
| popey | especially when some new person arrives and gives duff advice | 07:14 |
| txwikinger | there you can say things like we want to spend 80% of our time on 20% of the biggest customer or something like that | 07:14 |
| txwikinger | Here the question is.. how far do you go? | 07:14 |
| popey | before giving up? | 07:14 |
| txwikinger | yep | 07:15 |
| popey | thats tricky | 07:15 |
| txwikinger | I know | 07:15 |
| popey | depends on what kind of mood i am in to be honest | 07:15 |
| popey | sometimes I will go waaaay too farr | 07:15 |
| theCore | txwikinger, but also, much more important | 07:15 |
| popey | spending maybe an hour or so on one ticket | 07:15 |
| txwikinger | True.. and it probably will never be a strict rule | 07:15 |
| popey | other times I will look at a ticket, and just close it because its too " hard" | 07:15 |
| popey | we are human after all | 07:15 |
| txwikinger | :D | 07:15 |
| marianom | a goal will be motivating. | 07:15 |
| popey | and we assume someone else will look at it | 07:15 |
| txwikinger | popey: But that is fine.. we come with different skills and what is difficult for one person may actually be easy for the other and vice-versa | 07:16 |
| theCore | popey, yeah, I saw many of these "hard" tickets | 07:16 |
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| theCore | also saw, many of these "just google" tickets | 07:17 |
| txwikinger | Or sometimes it is not hard, but people wanting every single step because they are too lazy to read the docu | 07:17 |
| popey | theCore: :( | 07:17 |
| txwikinger | which is fine to an extent, but there is a point where it goes too far | 07:17 |
| popey | i have in the past spoken to people personally about the support they give | 07:17 |
| theCore | txwikinger, then, this is where the documentation is useful for us | 07:17 |
| popey | emailing or IM'ing them to ask them to be a bit more considerate | 07:18 |
| txwikinger | theCore: true | 07:18 |
| popey | maybe if we had a wiki page, we could direct new support people to it? | 07:18 |
| popey | so it is less of a personal attack and more of a "hey, welcome to support, check out this, it's our manual!" | 07:18 |
| txwikinger | good idea | 07:19 |
| popey | need to make sure we don't ALL spam the newbies though ;) | 07:19 |
| marianom | do we "maybe" need a few rules like in ubuntuforums? | 07:19 |
| popey | definately | 07:19 |
| popey | not rules, guidelines | 07:19 |
| theCore | yes, I think we could use the Ubuntu Nun team guidelines, as a template | 07:19 |
| popey | rules is too strong in my opinion | 07:19 |
| marianom | no RTFM and stuff | 07:19 |
| popey | definately no rtfn | 07:19 |
| marianom | ok, guidelines. | 07:19 |
| popey | er, m | 07:19 |
| txwikinger | Doesn't the CoC cover that? | 07:19 |
| popey | you get kicked from #ubuntu for saying that! | 07:19 |
| popey | !rtfm | 07:20 |
| ubotu | Words like noob, jfgi, stfu or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period. | 07:20 |
| theCore | txwikinger, roughly | 07:20 |
| popey | see | 07:20 |
| marianom | upps | 07:20 |
| marianom | the machines.... | 07:20 |
| theCore | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines | 07:21 |
| theCore | they got some good stuff there | 07:21 |
| popey | is that team/project still active? | 07:23 |
| theCore | yes | 07:23 |
| theCore | they are doing #ubuntu-classroom | 07:23 |
| popey | ooo when? | 07:24 |
| === popey checks | ||
| popey | hmm, cant see it | 07:24 |
| theCore | however, I think they're having problems finding "teachers" | 07:24 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek as part of that? | 07:25 |
| theCore | I am not sure | 07:26 |
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| theCore | anyway... | 07:26 |
| theCore | I think maybe rewarding support people with some sort of recognition would encourage more people in | 07:27 |
| popey | they get karma | 07:27 |
| theCore | yeah, but that's only on lp | 07:28 |
| theCore | would it possible to do something similar for #ubuntu and the Ubuntu-users list? | 07:28 |
| popey | we could use mls to create a "top contributors" list for the mailing list | 07:28 |
| popey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MailingListStats like that | 07:29 |
| marianom | ummm, there's people helping everywhere and they do it like us, because they can. I think the problem is that answer tracker is not as known as others | 07:29 |
| theCore | marianom, perhaps | 07:29 |
| popey | agreed | 07:30 |
| popey | i not some people dont realise that the answer tracker isnt realtime either | 07:30 |
| theCore | maybe, it's just because people like IRC and the ML better? | 07:30 |
| txwikinger | IRC is good for a dialog, the answer tracker is good for statistical analysis if it gets enhanced a little | 07:31 |
| txwikinger | and as knowledge db | 07:32 |
| Treenaks | txwikinger: only if you can also edit the questions a bit | 07:32 |
| popey | i believe they are planning to add a feature to the answer tracker whereby they show "trusted" users or known "experts" with a symbol next to their name, like the coffee beans in the forum | 07:32 |
| Treenaks | txwikinger: Some of the questions are just plain weird (no offence..), mostly because the author isn't a native English speaker | 07:32 |
| theCore | popey, that would be great | 07:32 |
| txwikinger | Treenaks: I refer more to the answers | 07:33 |
| Treenaks | or doesn't understand the first bit about using his computer ('what's clicking?') | 07:33 |
| Treenaks | txwikinger: oh ok :) | 07:33 |
| theCore | so, what do you think of the Ubuntu-user mailing list? | 07:35 |
| marianom | I think that if Answer Tracker can make a difference compared to other souces is that it can be use as a valid sample of what's people need to know. as txwikinger says. | 07:35 |
| theCore | ever, done support on it? | 07:35 |
| popey | i unsubscribed from -user, too high traffic volume | 07:36 |
| theCore | popey, I did too | 07:36 |
| marianom | I'm not there. | 07:36 |
| theCore | and if we did, I wonder who would not | 07:37 |
| Treenaks | I unsubscribed from -user a long time ago -- I do keep up with the local list (ubuntu-nl) though | 07:37 |
| Treenaks | lots of great people there :) | 07:37 |
| popey | :) | 07:37 |
| txwikinger | Would it make sense to somehow have questions from the mailing list go to the answer tracker? | 07:37 |
| popey | aaaartgh | 07:38 |
| marianom | I'm helping in my country mailing list | 07:38 |
| popey | that would be horrid in my opinion | 07:38 |
| Treenaks | txwikinger: how would you know what messages are questions, and which ones are answers? | 07:38 |
| popey | my worry is that when/as the support tracker gets more popular, the quality of service goes down | 07:38 |
| txwikinger | you could do it like bugs.debian | 07:38 |
| popey | not up | 07:38 |
| popey | but the support tracker effectively already is a mailing list | 07:38 |
| popey | if you subscribe to it you get every question and answer in the mail | 07:39 |
| theCore | popey, that's why we some base guidelines | 07:39 |
| marianom | yeah, and more than 200? mails a day | 07:39 |
| txwikinger | popey: I agree with that. What I am looking for is that people can use both technologies within one structure | 07:39 |
| theCore | txwikinger, I not sure if it would be a good idea, either | 07:40 |
| theCore | I am not* | 07:40 |
| txwikinger | but maybe it is more trouble then it is worth | 07:40 |
| theCore | I think the best thing, is splitting the support lists into local groups | 07:41 |
| popey | mailing list has a lot of discussion, which I dont think is appropriate on the answer tracker | 07:41 |
| theCore | popey, yeah | 07:41 |
| popey | answer tracker should be, Q, A, A, A, not Q, and then loads of off topic ramblings | 07:41 |
| theCore | I don't mean to make it disappear | 07:41 |
| txwikinger | right. maybe the better solution to make the answer tracker more know but with its specific purpose | 07:41 |
| txwikinger | so the discussions stay in the ml | 07:42 |
| txwikinger | more known | 07:42 |
| popey | agree | 07:42 |
| theCore | +1 | 07:42 |
| popey | as I say, I'll be pimping the answer tracker on wednesday with Francis Lacoste - the developer | 07:42 |
| txwikinger | I have already told people in kubuntu-org.de about it and at least one person started to answer questions in German | 07:43 |
| theCore | I wonder how many questions are asked in a language other than English | 07:44 |
| marianom | that's a point. for example there's questions in castilian and portuguese that I can't answer them. would it be valid if I translate them so anyone can pick and answer? and the translate the answer too | 07:45 |
| txwikinger | the languages I subsscribe to I would say about 3-5% | 07:45 |
| marianom | yeap, I saw 10 questions tops in a month. not more than that. | 07:45 |
| txwikinger | but I know that a lot of German ubuntu users are more comfortable if they can have a dialogue in German | 07:47 |
| txwikinger | so a lot of that support happens in the local groups I guess | 07:47 |
| marianom | I imagine users that ask question ion the tracker and not in english is because they don't know where to go. even lp in in english only | 07:48 |
| txwikinger | IS that a new localisation task ? | 07:48 |
| theCore | I think encouraging local support groups more, could solve some of the email volume problems with Ubuntu-users we have. | 07:49 |
| theCore | that is somehow more rewarding to help someone from your region, than someone from the other side of the globe | 07:51 |
| txwikinger | Don't know about that, but often it is a matter of the ability to communicate with each other | 07:52 |
| popey | language barrier? | 07:52 |
| txwikinger | yep | 07:52 |
| txwikinger | I am located in UK, but I help out in Germany :) | 07:53 |
| theCore | so, maybe http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists could point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList | 07:53 |
| theCore | however, not all LocoTeam provides support on their list | 07:54 |
| popey | some actively discourage it | 07:55 |
| theCore | but some even puts "Provides Local Support: YES!" in bold :) | 07:55 |
| popey | pushing people towards the "official" support channels, like #ubuntu | 07:55 |
| theCore | popey, why? | 07:55 |
| txwikinger | theCore: I think sometimes it is a matter of manpower | 07:57 |
| theCore | anyway... we are out of time | 07:57 |
| theCore | txwikinger, yeah, that would make some sense | 07:57 |
| theCore | btw, how about creating a IRC channel for the helpteam ? | 07:58 |
| popey | theCore: because you get more eyeballs and braincells in the official support channels than you do in loco team channels/mailing lists | 07:58 |
| theCore | popey, true | 07:59 |
| popey | an irc channel with a bot that announced new support tickets would be neat | 07:59 |
| marianom | I agree | 07:59 |
| txwikinger | popey: +1 | 07:59 |
| theCore | +1 too | 07:59 |
| marianom | +1 | 07:59 |
| popey | this has been reported as a bug AIUI | 07:59 |
| popey | they are waiting for some functionality in launchpad which exposes answers text via some API or something :) | 08:00 |
| popey | they they said you should be able to go Answers 1234 in the same way you can say bug 1 | 08:00 |
| ubotu | Malone bug 1 in jl "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 | 08:00 |
| popey | and the bot pop up | 08:00 |
| theCore | :) | 08:00 |
| txwikinger | what's the problem.. both is lp, isn't it? | 08:01 |
| Treenaks | txwikinger: bots don't code themselves (yet) | 08:01 |
| popey | the answers system is separate from bugs | 08:02 |
| popey | they are aware of it at least | 08:02 |
| theCore | https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+ticket/3490 | 08:02 |
| popey | hehe, i reported that :) | 08:03 |
| theCore | ok, I need to go | 08:04 |
| txwikinger | cya theCore | 08:04 |
| txwikinger | DO we want to have a follow-up meeting? or something regular? | 08:04 |
| marianom | is there a todo list for this meeting? | 08:04 |
| theCore | txwikinger, yes | 08:05 |
| theCore | marianom, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SupportTeam/Agenda | 08:05 |
| theCore | I will start on the list, later today | 08:05 |
| theCore | cya all, and thanks for coming | 08:05 |
| marianom | thanks theCore | 08:06 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | ||
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