=== Francois [n=fanch@88-137-117-233.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === guerby [n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ash211_ [n=andrew@user-112174a.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === blenderhead001 [n=blenderh@adsl-068-209-133-121.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === arualavi [n=Iva@117.Red-83-33-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Devaux [i=roger@91.138.22.160] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mc44 [n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Exit,] === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nothlit [n=nothlit@fluxbuntu/developer/nothlit] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === ToonArmy [n=chris@88-105-163-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hoora_ [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-7147c2213935cf42] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@45.246.0.218.broad.hz.zj.dynamic.163data.com.cn] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cjwatson_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stgraber [n=stgraber@ubuntu/member/stgraber] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stgraber [n=stgraber@ubuntu/member/stgraber] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:06] @schedule London [09:06] Schedule for Europe/London: 21 Apr 18:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 21:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 21:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team === asac [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.119.61] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@201.230.1.151] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Fanch317 [n=fanch@88-137-117-233.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dennda [n=dennda@ubuntu/member/dennda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bluekuja [n=andy@ubuntu/member/bluekuja] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pochu [n=emilio@131.Red-83-57-165.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Devaux [i=roger@91.138.13.95] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508da888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === popey [n=alan@ubuntu/member/popey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:40] @schedule [03:40] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 21 Apr 17:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00: Kernel Team === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ash211 [n=andrew@user-112174a.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hjmf [n=hjmf@6.Red-88-25-28.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ToonArmy [n=chris@88-105-163-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avoine [n=avoine@modemcable060.221-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === marianom [n=marianom@252-58-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-147-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta_ [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sueisfine [n=abns@125.161.195.59] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Support Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team [06:53] So, who is here for the support team meeting? [06:54] o/ [06:54] in and out and around about [06:54] that's good [06:54] theCore: I'm here for the meeting [06:54] kids bath time so it's a busy time in this house :S [06:55] hi popey [06:55] hi marianom [06:55] hi theCore [06:55] not sure how much I will be able to contribute, sorry [06:56] popey, that's okay [06:56] hopefully, more people will show up === popey wonders how many people are on the helpteam mailing list === theCore starts counting [06:58] mailman will tell you [06:58] dunno who is the admin of the list tho [06:58] 30 [06:58] it's me [06:58] people who have posted or subscribers? [06:58] subscribers [06:58] thats not a lot is it [06:58] :( [06:59] that's start [06:59] quite low traffic list, we need to pimp it (as jono would say) [06:59] *a start [07:00] yeah but right now time is the problem for me [07:00] that's why I want to get new admin [07:01] to admin the list? [07:01] I'll volunteer if needed. I have some experience in that area [07:01] moderator on the list, and admin on lp [07:02] the list don't take much of my time [07:02] what I am looking for is someone for motivating the "troops" [07:03] :) [07:03] well, I am giving a session during the open week next week all about support - specifically the answer tracker in launchpad [07:03] maybe we could get some people in that way? [07:03] push the help team [07:04] sure, that would certainly be a great idea [07:04] do you guys find there's not enough people answering? [07:04] marianom, depends [07:04] hmm, didn't know there was a support team :) [07:04] (hi btw) [07:04] jsgotangco, hi [07:04] hi jsgotangco [07:04] marianom: answering on the ubuntu-users mailing list, forums, irc or answer tracker? [07:05] popey: answer tracker. i find the others pretty cover and I considered answer tracker was exactly the same. [07:06] yeah, i think the answer tracker isnt very well known [07:06] which is one reason for the session next week [07:06] its quite solid for this release though [07:06] to promote its use amongst people with problems, but also with people who are wanting to help [07:07] what I think we need is a little bit of more organization. e.g. we need statistics of what people is asking so we can, for example, feed the documentation team. [07:07] indeed [07:07] marianom, exactly [07:08] I am trying to pull together what people are asking so I can create screencasts that are useful [07:08] I think forums can provide that with the tag system but I fail see a good reporting system in lp [07:08] hi folks.. sorry for being late [07:08] hi txwikinger [07:08] hey txwikinger [07:08] marianom, in fact, reporting frequently to the docteam is my primary project, I want to accomplish [07:09] theCore: ok. [07:09] hi txwikinger [07:09] however, I ain't sure how we could do that efficiently [07:10] tag support in the answer tracker? [07:10] speak to Matthew East, mdke on irc, he might be the best person to talk to about that theCore [07:10] theCore: I was thinking about that [07:10] i believe tag support is coming [07:11] there are a few new features that we will be talking about in the open week next week [07:11] maybe as well that we can change the package [07:11] txwikinger: great idea. users asking generally use the wrong clasificacion, IMHO [07:12] should we start going through the items on the agenda [07:12] ? [07:12] the first thing, I would like to get done today is defining some sort of support guidelines/standard [07:12] popey, yes [07:13] a how-to for support people? [07:13] Maybe as well a little bit the goal [07:13] popey, yes [07:14] here it is far more difficult than in commercial technical support [07:14] txwikinger: agreed [07:14] especially when some new person arrives and gives duff advice [07:14] there you can say things like we want to spend 80% of our time on 20% of the biggest customer or something like that [07:14] Here the question is.. how far do you go? [07:14] before giving up? [07:15] yep [07:15] thats tricky [07:15] I know [07:15] depends on what kind of mood i am in to be honest [07:15] sometimes I will go waaaay too farr [07:15] txwikinger, but also, much more important [07:15] spending maybe an hour or so on one ticket [07:15] True.. and it probably will never be a strict rule [07:15] other times I will look at a ticket, and just close it because its too " hard" [07:15] we are human after all [07:15] :D [07:15] a goal will be motivating. [07:15] and we assume someone else will look at it [07:16] popey: But that is fine.. we come with different skills and what is difficult for one person may actually be easy for the other and vice-versa [07:16] popey, yeah, I saw many of these "hard" tickets === dennda [n=dennda@ubuntu/member/dennda] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:17] also saw, many of these "just google" tickets [07:17] Or sometimes it is not hard, but people wanting every single step because they are too lazy to read the docu [07:17] theCore: :( [07:17] which is fine to an extent, but there is a point where it goes too far [07:17] i have in the past spoken to people personally about the support they give [07:17] txwikinger, then, this is where the documentation is useful for us [07:18] emailing or IM'ing them to ask them to be a bit more considerate [07:18] theCore: true [07:18] maybe if we had a wiki page, we could direct new support people to it? [07:18] so it is less of a personal attack and more of a "hey, welcome to support, check out this, it's our manual!" [07:19] good idea [07:19] need to make sure we don't ALL spam the newbies though ;) [07:19] do we "maybe" need a few rules like in ubuntuforums? [07:19] definately [07:19] not rules, guidelines [07:19] yes, I think we could use the Ubuntu Nun team guidelines, as a template [07:19] rules is too strong in my opinion [07:19] no RTFM and stuff [07:19] definately no rtfn [07:19] ok, guidelines. [07:19] er, m [07:19] Doesn't the CoC cover that? [07:19] you get kicked from #ubuntu for saying that! [07:20] !rtfm [07:20] Words like noob, jfgi, stfu or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period. [07:20] txwikinger, roughly [07:20] see [07:20] upps [07:20] the machines.... [07:21] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines [07:21] they got some good stuff there [07:23] is that team/project still active? [07:23] yes [07:23] they are doing #ubuntu-classroom [07:24] ooo when? === popey checks [07:24] hmm, cant see it [07:24] however, I think they're having problems finding "teachers" [07:25] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek as part of that? [07:26] I am not sure === Fanch317 [n=fanch@ARennes-357-1-33-35.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:26] anyway... [07:27] I think maybe rewarding support people with some sort of recognition would encourage more people in [07:27] they get karma [07:28] yeah, but that's only on lp [07:28] would it possible to do something similar for #ubuntu and the Ubuntu-users list? [07:28] we could use mls to create a "top contributors" list for the mailing list [07:29] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MailingListStats like that [07:29] ummm, there's people helping everywhere and they do it like us, because they can. I think the problem is that answer tracker is not as known as others [07:29] marianom, perhaps [07:30] agreed [07:30] i not some people dont realise that the answer tracker isnt realtime either [07:30] maybe, it's just because people like IRC and the ML better? [07:31] IRC is good for a dialog, the answer tracker is good for statistical analysis if it gets enhanced a little [07:32] and as knowledge db [07:32] txwikinger: only if you can also edit the questions a bit [07:32] i believe they are planning to add a feature to the answer tracker whereby they show "trusted" users or known "experts" with a symbol next to their name, like the coffee beans in the forum [07:32] txwikinger: Some of the questions are just plain weird (no offence..), mostly because the author isn't a native English speaker [07:32] popey, that would be great [07:33] Treenaks: I refer more to the answers [07:33] or doesn't understand the first bit about using his computer ('what's clicking?') [07:33] txwikinger: oh ok :) [07:35] so, what do you think of the Ubuntu-user mailing list? [07:35] I think that if Answer Tracker can make a difference compared to other souces is that it can be use as a valid sample of what's people need to know. as txwikinger says. [07:35] ever, done support on it? [07:36] i unsubscribed from -user, too high traffic volume [07:36] popey, I did too [07:36] I'm not there. [07:37] and if we did, I wonder who would not [07:37] I unsubscribed from -user a long time ago -- I do keep up with the local list (ubuntu-nl) though [07:37] lots of great people there :) [07:37] :) [07:37] Would it make sense to somehow have questions from the mailing list go to the answer tracker? [07:38] aaaartgh [07:38] I'm helping in my country mailing list [07:38] that would be horrid in my opinion [07:38] txwikinger: how would you know what messages are questions, and which ones are answers? [07:38] my worry is that when/as the support tracker gets more popular, the quality of service goes down [07:38] you could do it like bugs.debian [07:38] not up [07:38] but the support tracker effectively already is a mailing list [07:39] if you subscribe to it you get every question and answer in the mail [07:39] popey, that's why we some base guidelines [07:39] yeah, and more than 200? mails a day [07:39] popey: I agree with that. What I am looking for is that people can use both technologies within one structure [07:40] txwikinger, I not sure if it would be a good idea, either [07:40] I am not* [07:40] but maybe it is more trouble then it is worth [07:41] I think the best thing, is splitting the support lists into local groups [07:41] mailing list has a lot of discussion, which I dont think is appropriate on the answer tracker [07:41] popey, yeah [07:41] answer tracker should be, Q, A, A, A, not Q, and then loads of off topic ramblings [07:41] I don't mean to make it disappear [07:41] right. maybe the better solution to make the answer tracker more know but with its specific purpose [07:42] so the discussions stay in the ml [07:42] more known [07:42] agree [07:42] +1 [07:42] as I say, I'll be pimping the answer tracker on wednesday with Francis Lacoste - the developer [07:43] I have already told people in kubuntu-org.de about it and at least one person started to answer questions in German [07:44] I wonder how many questions are asked in a language other than English [07:45] that's a point. for example there's questions in castilian and portuguese that I can't answer them. would it be valid if I translate them so anyone can pick and answer? and the translate the answer too [07:45] the languages I subsscribe to I would say about 3-5% [07:45] yeap, I saw 10 questions tops in a month. not more than that. [07:47] but I know that a lot of German ubuntu users are more comfortable if they can have a dialogue in German [07:47] so a lot of that support happens in the local groups I guess [07:48] I imagine users that ask question ion the tracker and not in english is because they don't know where to go. even lp in in english only [07:48] IS that a new localisation task ? [07:49] I think encouraging local support groups more, could solve some of the email volume problems with Ubuntu-users we have. [07:51] that is somehow more rewarding to help someone from your region, than someone from the other side of the globe [07:52] Don't know about that, but often it is a matter of the ability to communicate with each other [07:52] language barrier? [07:52] yep [07:53] I am located in UK, but I help out in Germany :) [07:53] so, maybe http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists could point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList [07:54] however, not all LocoTeam provides support on their list [07:55] some actively discourage it [07:55] but some even puts "Provides Local Support: YES!" in bold :) [07:55] pushing people towards the "official" support channels, like #ubuntu [07:55] popey, why? [07:57] theCore: I think sometimes it is a matter of manpower [07:57] anyway... we are out of time [07:57] txwikinger, yeah, that would make some sense [07:58] btw, how about creating a IRC channel for the helpteam ? [07:58] theCore: because you get more eyeballs and braincells in the official support channels than you do in loco team channels/mailing lists [07:59] popey, true [07:59] an irc channel with a bot that announced new support tickets would be neat [07:59] I agree [07:59] popey: +1 [07:59] +1 too [07:59] +1 [07:59] this has been reported as a bug AIUI [08:00] they are waiting for some functionality in launchpad which exposes answers text via some API or something :) [08:00] they they said you should be able to go Answers 1234 in the same way you can say bug 1 [08:00] Malone bug 1 in jl "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 [08:00] and the bot pop up [08:00] :) [08:01] what's the problem.. both is lp, isn't it? [08:01] txwikinger: bots don't code themselves (yet) [08:02] the answers system is separate from bugs [08:02] they are aware of it at least [08:02] https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+ticket/3490 [08:03] hehe, i reported that :) [08:04] ok, I need to go [08:04] cya theCore [08:04] DO we want to have a follow-up meeting? or something regular? [08:04] is there a todo list for this meeting? [08:05] txwikinger, yes [08:05] marianom, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SupportTeam/Agenda [08:05] I will start on the list, later today [08:05] cya all, and thanks for coming [08:06] thanks theCore === finalbeta_ [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyt [n=cyt@linux.cs.ccu.edu.tw] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === j_ack [n=rudi@p508da888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jrib [n=jrib@upstream/dev/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko__ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-084-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Adri2000_ [n=adri2000@ubuntu/member/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team === cjwatson_ [n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === os2mac [n=jim@ip68-230-203-5.rd.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === os2mac [n=jim@ip68-230-203-5.rd.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-001-099.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bluekuja [n=andy@ubuntu/member/bluekuja] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avoine [n=avoine@modemcable060.221-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jpon [n=jpon@neu67-3-82-239-80-181.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === marianom [n=marianom@252-58-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Owdgit [n=ron@88-110-129-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Adri2000_ [n=adri2000@ubuntu/member/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === simira [n=simira@tellus.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avoine [n=avoine@modemcable060.221-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === finalbeta [n=gggggggg@d54C6865D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-001-099.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === os2mac [n=jim@ip68-230-203-5.rd.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ash211 [n=andrew@user-112174a.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === boredandblogging [n=asdfasdf@c-24-98-177-125.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === AlexLatchford [n=alex@82-44-193-109.cable.ubr07.haye.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rtg__ [n=rtg@rtg.theglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === vuntz_ [n=vuntz@82.228.182.88] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === anibal [n=anibal@60.224.173.234] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DACED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting