[12:16] <cbx33> Did we revert the GNOME Control Centre?
[12:16] <Burgwork> cbx33: yes, it got nuked
[12:16] <cbx33> *bah*
[12:16] <Burgwork> too slow and badly designed
[12:16] <sharms> I couldnt use it
[12:16] <cbx33> Now I have to edit the docs again
[12:16] <cbx33> Damn this book chapter
[12:16] <Nafallo> Burgwork: upstream, right? :-)
[12:16] <sharms> It like 5x'd my time trying to find icons
[12:16] <ajmitch> cbx33: still writing?
[12:16] <cbx33> no
[12:17] <Burgwork> Nafallo: is somethign from Novell
[12:17] <cbx33> just editing before it goes to print
[12:17] <Nafallo> Burgwork: ugh
[12:17] <Fujitsu> Oh joy, the Slashdotted `7 things to change when you install Feisty Fawn' says to install Automatix.
[12:17] <Burgwork> probably is, 2d searching is harder than 1d
[12:17] <sharms> Well I think novell's implementation of it was somehow better organized
[12:17] <Burgwork> the problem is too many capplets
[12:19] <Fujitsu> ... and they recommend installing Beryl from the external repos. :(
[12:23] <nixternal> LaserJock: docbook-xml wasn't in build-deps ;)
[12:23] <nixternal> it hasn't been there from day one either, not even in Dapper
[12:27] <DarkSun88> Good night
[12:32] <cbx33> is universe on by default now?
[12:32] <LaserJock> cbx33: yep
[12:33] <jdong> crimsun: any ideas on bug 96750? I've got a friend here who can confirm the same issue
[12:33] <ubotu> Malone bug 96750 in alsa-driver "Sound volume control does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96750
[12:33] <jdong> SigmaTel STAC, ICH6, volume always maximum, does not respond to vol control or mute
[12:35] <LaserJock> ok, TeX manifesto sent
[12:35] <cbx33> Is multiverse on by edfault?
[12:35] <LaserJock> yes
[12:35] <LaserJock> I think
[12:36] <LaserJock> or ...
[12:36] <cbx33> can someone doubl check
[12:36] <LaserJock> I don't know actually, I would assume so
[12:36] <LaserJock> since the new Java Stack thing
[12:36] <cbx33> I'll check
[12:41] <sabdfl> no, it should not be on by default
[12:41] <sabdfl> java needs to get gpl'd, then it can all move to main
[12:41] <LaserJock> what a happy day that will be
[12:41] <LaserJock> I've got lots of Chemistry/Edu stuff I want to put in Edubuntu when it does
[12:56] <cbx33> sabdfl it is on by default in Edubuntu
[12:56] <cbx33> I have just checked
[12:56] <cbx33> can soeone else confirm
[12:57] <ajmitch> much pain
[12:58] <Burgwork> ajmitch: the web front end stuff?
[01:00] <ajmitch> no, the admin console
[01:00] <ajmitch> which is a java app
[01:00] <Burgwork> right, that is what I meant
[01:00] <cbx33> anyone able to check the software sources?
[01:00] <ajmitch> they have custom apache modules for the web frontend :)
[01:02] <Burgwork> oh joy
[01:02] <Burgwork> I bet RH loved that
[01:03] <ajmitch> we'll see what happens with them
[01:04] <Burgwork> now that they are split out, RH might abandon them
[01:05] <ajmitch> http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mod_admserv
[01:05] <sabdfl> cbx33: interesting. might be they depend on some stuff from there
[01:06] <sharms> eww they still use cvs
[01:06] <ajmitch> sharms: of course
[01:06] <LaserJock> lots of things still use cvs
[01:06] <sharms> 1998 called and wants their revision control back
[01:06] <sharms> and EGA monitors
[01:06] <LaserJock> last night I made my first CVS commit
[01:07] <LaserJock> it was also my first commit on an upstream
[01:07] <LaserJock> quite fun
[01:07] <Burgwork> rocking, the fds wiki has a gpl-ed css
[01:08] <sharms> heh its funny because I bet most people who run cvs repositories are going by the "if it aint broke dont fix it" rule, but it is broke, and hence we have these fantastic revision control systems that spawned to replace it
[01:08] <LaserJock> Burgwork: question, if you have a GPL'd css does the whole site have to be GPL?
[01:08] <Burgwork> LaserJock: afaik, no
[01:08] <sharms> I have switched over to bzr on all my projects, and it is working fantastic
[01:08] <LaserJock> sharms: well, savannah is still CVS, that's why I have to use it
[01:09] <LaserJock> it really irritating
[01:09] <LaserJock> I've totally gone backwards
[01:09] <LaserJock> I learned Python, then C++
[01:09] <LaserJock> I learnd bzr, then svn, then CVS
[01:09] <sharms> ha
[01:10] <LaserJock> svn is so easy to use
[01:10] <LaserJock> way more friendly than CVS
[01:10] <sharms> well if you can use svn, bzr is almost exactly the same
[01:11] <cbx33> I love bzr and svn
[01:11] <cbx33> never touched cvs
[01:11] <LaserJock> cbx33: don't
[01:11] <LaserJock> if you can possibly help it
[01:11] <sharms> when I used cvs last I remember it couldnt handle binary files sometimes
[01:11] <LaserJock> run away as fast as you can ;-)
[01:12] <LaserJock> I think I saw the other day that mozilla was thinking of going with bzr
[01:12] <LaserJock> but ended up with Mercurial I think
[01:12] <sharms> I get worried that bzr might actually be hampered by ubuntu
[01:12] <ScottK> cbx33: Universe is only on by default for new installs.  If you upgrade and it was off, it stays off.
[01:12] <sharms> since ubuntu is such a force these days, you have people who want to try and push back against anything related to ubuntu
[01:13] <LaserJock> ScottK: the question is Multiverse
[01:13] <ScottK> OK. Dunno on that.  I was trying to make the point that new installs and upgrades are treated differently.
[01:14] <cbx33> yes
[01:14] <LaserJock> sharms: I doubt it is that much of an influence. I think about the only thing slowing bzr down is it's speed ;-)
[01:14] <cbx33> ScottK, multiverse is on too
[01:15] <sharms> LaserJock: I just get the feeling there is some backlash at times because of ubuntu's success
[01:15] <LaserJock> could be
[01:16] <LaserJock> I'm suprised at how well it's doing
[01:16] <LaserJock> I would think Ubuntu would be a help
[01:16] <LaserJock> but you could be right for sure
[01:16] <LaserJock> there is always a backlash against the "big dog"
[01:17] <LaserJock> I thought you already had
[01:18] <LaserJock> "I didn't get a PONY!!!"
[01:18] <sharms> I just love that pic :)
[01:18] <LaserJock> yes
[01:18] <ajmitch> ponies? where?
[01:18] <sharms> all over the planet
[01:19] <LaserJock> for goodness sakes, people have gone nuts
[01:19] <sharms> what did I do now
[01:19] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where?
[01:20] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: US of course
[01:20] <sharms> the nasa thing?
[01:20] <LaserJock> shooting at NASA
[01:20] <LaserJock> my uni was on lockdown last night
[01:20] <Fujitsu> Oh, that one.
[01:20] <LaserJock> high schools and universities all over the place are on lockdown
[01:21] <LaserJock> I missed the one last night here
[01:21] <LaserJock> but the ended all the classes and told students to leave
[01:22] <LaserJock> people in the research labs were sure what they were supposed to do
[01:22] <Fujitsu> Why would a hostage situation at NASA cause that?
[01:22] <LaserJock> that didn't cause it
[01:22] <Fujitsu> Is there another one that I haven't heard about?
[01:22] <LaserJock> getting bomb threats and people wanting to kill 100 people did
[01:22] <Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
[01:22] <LaserJock> there was a shooting in Michagan
[01:23] <sharms> LaserJock: ah I live in Michigan, where was it
[01:23] <LaserJock> several high schools had minor ones
[01:23] <Fujitsu> The US sounds great.
[01:23] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: well it is, just got some weirdnesses sometimes
[01:23] <LaserJock> sharms: well, the person was from Kalamazoo College
[01:25] <LaserJock> ah, the Kalamazoo one was just a lockdown because of some stuff on a website
[01:27] <LaserJock> I think there were probably around a dozen lockdowns at school across the country today
[01:27] <sharms> I wonder what social unrest is causing this
[01:28] <LaserJock> well, I could go on an on about that, but I'll spare you guys
[01:28] <sharms> as an american I am the same as I have ever been
[01:28] <sharms> happily sitting on the computer by day, drinking at night
[01:33] <ajmitch> I *knew* checkinstall & autopackage & friends had to come up in gutsy ideas
[01:33] <LaserJock> I thought they did a pretty good job handling it last I looked
[01:36] <LaserJock> ahh man, people are already dist-upgrading to gutsy
[01:37] <LaserJock> we should have a "This will roast your computer, I'm glad you have backups" wallpaper until after UDS at least
[01:38] <Burgwork> ajmitch: linky?
[01:39] <ajmitch> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2494015
[01:41] <LaserJock> "There is nothing wrong with 3rd party binaries. Comments like "they throw stuff everywhere" is just FUD."
[01:42] <Fujitsu> Er, gutsy doesn't have any packages yet, does it?
[01:43] <LaserJock> sure
[01:43] <ajmitch> no, it doesn't
[01:43] <LaserJock> it's open
[01:43] <ajmitch> not according to LP, anyway
[01:43] <LaserJock> it's just a copy of Feisty
[01:43] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy
[01:43] <LaserJock> I found gutsy packages
[01:43] <ajmitch> Source packages:  0
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:43] <ajmitch> then launchpad is confused again ;)
[01:43] <Fujitsu> It is a copy of Feisty, but Soyuz doesn't seem to know much about it.
[01:44] <ajmitch> I know there's an unapproved queue already
[01:44] <ajmitch> with toolchain bits
[01:45] <LaserJock> well, I was just looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/texlive-base
[01:45] <LaserJock> and people reported doing a s/feisty/gutsy/ in their sources.list
[01:45] <cbx33> noooooo
[01:45] <cbx33> not already
[01:45] <cbx33> that's insane
[01:45] <cbx33> hehe
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Soyuz must be very confused
[01:46] <LaserJock> well, it's not insane yet
[01:47] <cbx33> guys
[01:47] <LaserJock> right now gutsy=feisty basically
[01:47] <LaserJock> my issue is I hope people aren't like "Oh, well gutsy is fine, what are those idiots talking about it being unstable"
[01:48] <ajmitch> "ZOMG gusty is SOOOO much fastre than feisty!!!!1"
[01:49] <LaserJock> lol
[01:49] <lupine_85> ORLY?
[01:49] <ajmitch> YRLY!
[01:49] <lupine_85> cool
[01:49] <lupine_85> bwahahaha :D
[01:53] <ajmitch> even better, debian isn't half-frozen as it was at the start of feisty
[01:53] <minghua_> crappy network
[02:32] <mtm8> Is there a command line only version of ubiquity?
[02:33] <Flannel> mtm8: You want the alternate CD
[02:34] <mtm8> Flannel: I'm making a custom LiveCD based on the Desktop CD because I don't want to deal with preseeding with the alternate CD.
[02:35] <Flannel> mtm8: ah.  Do you have the wiki page for liveCD customization?
[02:37] <mtm8> Flannel: It doesn't tell you how to do that.
[02:38] <Flannel> mtm8: Eh?  I never said there was a CLI ubiquity.  Just thought I'd offer some documentation
[02:40] <mtm8> Flannel: Well, I've already read through a lot of documentation and I'm really hopeful that there is some sort of non-GUI based installer that makes it easy to customize LiveCDs.
[02:40] <mtm8> Flannel: Ideally, I'd like it if the alternate CD was easier to modify with the setup I have.
[02:43] <Flannel> mtm8: The file listing for ubiquity doesn't appear to have any sort of CLI version.  But, I dont see how alt CD is so difficult either.  Have you checked the ubuntu documentation on it?
[02:44] <Flannel> mtm8: this is offtopic for this channel, we should be in #ubuntu-offtopic
[02:44] <mtm8> Flannel: Yes, it's annoying how preseeding, etc. al works.
[02:44] <mtm8> Okay.
[02:49] <ScottK> OK, so you've all left, but I'm just catching up on the scrollback.  I know I should't go look at the forums.  http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2495716&postcount=13  
[02:52] <ajmitch> ScottK: correct, you shouldn't
[02:54] <ajmitch> good to see that some people are still ignoring the instructions on the MOTU/Packages/Candidates page & editing it
[02:55] <Laser_away> yes
[02:55] <Laser_away> very special
[02:57] <ajmitch> LaserJock!!
[02:57] <LaserJock> ajmitch!!
[02:59] <ajmitch> hi
[02:59] <ajmitch> LaserJock: got all your specs ready for UDS?
[03:00] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:01] <LaserJock> specs ..
[03:01] <LaserJock> yeah ..
[03:01] <ajmitch> hehe
[03:02] <ajmitch> just grab some ideas from the forums & write them up
[03:13] <jdong> Does anyone have a Dell 9300, 9400, XPS 170, or XPS 1710
[03:14] <jdong> I've got someone claiming that on all these models, the Master (2 front speaker) volume does not control the subwoofer (Mono Main) at all....
[03:14] <jdong> which is a really annoying issue because the subwoofer is louder than the 2 front speakers.... :D
[03:30] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:34] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[03:35] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock, what's happening
[03:36] <LaserJock> oh, stuff
[03:39] <bddebian> "stuff"? :)
[03:40] <bddebian> LaserJock: I got another freakin' mentor request and I don't know what to do with them all :-(
[03:41] <Admiral_Chicago> getting that golden pony probably had a lot to do with it
[03:41] <ajmitch> bddebian: lucky you
[03:41] <ajmitch> bddebian: I never get any requests at all
[03:41] <Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: want to mentor me?
[03:41] <LaserJock> bddebian: well, you can ask them to come here and tell them that we're working on a mentor mailing list
[03:41] <bddebian> ajmitch: I wanted you to mentor me :-)
[03:42] <Admiral_Chicago> lol
[03:42] <ajmitch> bddebian: you didn't need it
[03:42] <bddebian> LaserJock: I have
[03:42] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah right :-)
[03:42] <ajmitch> Admiral_Chicago: see LaserJock's response above about getting a list
[03:42] <Admiral_Chicago> i saw, I'll be looking for it
[03:43] <ajmitch> besides, I know why people don't ask me for mentoring
[03:43] <ajmitch> they know I'm just grouchy, nasty & mean
[03:43] <Admiral_Chicago> haha
[03:44] <jdong> ajmitch: would you be my mentor? :)
[03:46] <ajmitch> jdong: oh so tempting
[03:47] <jdong> ajmitch: oh come on we have such compatible personalities :D
[03:49] <ajmitch> jdong: I'm sure
[03:50] <jdong> :)
[03:58] <LaserJock> well, I get asked for mentorship
[03:58] <LaserJock> but it's never worked well
[03:59] <LaserJock> I don't think I've had a single one work out well
[03:59] <LaserJock> maybe it's me
[04:00] <micahcowan> LaserJock, heh, wow that was quick! :)
[04:00] <LaserJock> you struck at a good time ;-)
[04:02] <LaserJock> micahcowan: what do you think of the package list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeX ?
[04:03] <bddebian> LaserJock: Me either really.  It's hard for me to direct someone else when I'm pretty chaotic myself :)
[04:03] <LaserJock> exactly
[04:10] <ajmitch> who wants to get me some pizza?
[04:10] <LaserJock> I had pizza today
[04:11] <ajmitch> :(
[04:11] <ajmitch> I haven't...
[04:12] <LaserJock> well get some
[04:12] <LaserJock> :-)
[04:13] <ajmitch> requires effort & money
[04:15] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: please *don't*
[04:15] <Fujitsu> Somebody seems to be proposing that /var and /tmp serve the same purpose...
[04:15] <ajmitch> sure, get them to rm -rf /var & see how happy they'll be
[04:16] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: But it's fun watching the forum community grow and degenerate... They have their own little community, like an ant farm, with people watching and laughing at them.
[04:16] <ajmitch> no, it's not fun
[04:16] <ajmitch> you should be there correcting & leading them towards the light
[04:16] <Lathiat> wheres the fun in that
[04:16] <Fujitsu> They're /way/ past the stage where that was possible.
[04:17] <Fujitsu> They can spew out 333 pages of crap on Feisty in 3 days. They're definitely past it.
[04:17] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: cynic
[04:17] <Fujitsu> That's me.
[04:19] <Fujitsu> ScottK: That's a nice reply to the better external package management thread.
[04:19] <ScottK> It used to say something that might have been interpreted by some as somewhat snide.
[04:20] <Fujitsu> And I see that somebody has come up with the idea of being able to resize NTFS partitions in the installer. I wonder why nobody had ever thought of that before?
[04:20] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Oh, I see you've edited it out :(
[04:20] <Fujitsu> ScottK: I saw the original.
[04:20] <ajmitch> ScottK: heh
[04:20] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:21] <ajmitch> ScottK: I wasn't actually referring to your comment, honest
[04:21] <ajmitch> sometimes you need to throw cold water on ideas
[04:21] <ScottK> OK.  Well I wouldn't have taken it that way if I didn't feel guilty in advance
[04:21] <ajmitch> hehe
[04:21] <Fujitsu> It was a good comment, I think.
[04:21] <jdong> ajmitch: there's some people that I wish I can freeze in cold water :)
[04:22] <jdong> but alas there's human rights laws.
[04:22] <Fujitsu> I wish there was a status field for forum threads... I keep wanting to mark them as rejected :(
[04:22] <jdong> Fujitsu: lol
[04:22] <Lathiat> heh
[04:22] <Lathiat> dn't suppose anyone here records off DVB?
[04:22] <jdong> Fujitsu: if there were, then the forum council will be up 24/7 handling objections
[04:22] <ajmitch> jdong: there are some people I'd like to comment on, but the CoC prevents such a thing
[04:22] <Fujitsu> jdong: Then we expell the forum council.
[04:22] <jdong> Fujitsu: lol :)
[04:22] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: revolution?
[04:22] <jdong> Fujitsu: lead the Revolution!
[04:22] <Fujitsu> Or just expell the forums. That's a better idea.
[04:23] <jdong> Fujitsu: sure, we'll redirect everyone to #ubuntu-devel :)
[04:23] <jdong> that'd be a GREAT april fools joke
[04:23] <ajmitch> "Believe it or not, I've already changed sources.list.
[04:23] <ajmitch> You can bet on it"
[04:23] <Fujitsu> jdong: Great idea! It'd destroy Freenode.
[04:23] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Where?
[04:23] <jdong> Fujitsu: we try to do the dirty work for you guys :D
[04:23] <ajmitch> in the thread about when gutsy is safe to upload to
[04:24] <Fujitsu> `Repositories for experienced users to test new packages: avoiding breakages'
[04:24] <Fujitsu> Hm, you know, the development version exists for a pretty good reason.
[04:24] <ScottK> Ironically we have those...
[04:25] <ajmitch> I see there's a thread about how to request packages for universe
[04:25] <ajmitch> no doubt noone will read it, and will just post requests on the forums
[04:25] <Fujitsu> only about 6 weeks til the fun begins again  opps it double posted
[04:25] <ScottK> It'll be equally effective.
[04:25] <ajmitch> jdong: we love the forums dearly, honest
[04:26] <ajmitch> they just seem to be a great way for silly ideas to percolate to the top
[04:26] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: This is why we need Forum Ambassadors to forward every idea to us.
[04:26] <ajmitch> yay
[04:27] <jdong> ajmitch: well I do hope you guys are just having fun and joking around :)
[04:27] <jdong> ajmitch: we try to make it sane for you guys
[04:27] <emet> hello masters of the universe
[04:28] <Fujitsu> Hi emet.
[04:28] <jdong> but there's only so much you could do without the Free Speech Society from hell rising up and engulfing one in flames....
[04:28] <ajmitch> jdong: you're right, us developers shouldn't bother to go & look there
[04:28] <emet> how would I get an package in universe?
[04:28] <jdong> ajmitch: that's not what I meant :)
[04:29] <Lathiat> post in the forum thread!
[04:29] <emet> do I submit the source code and you guys take it from there?
[04:29] <LaserJock> we encourage people to try to build packages themself
[04:30] <LaserJock> but you can file a request bug too
[04:30] <emet> but I could not sign said package because I don't have a gpg key, no?
[04:30] <LaserJock> that's ok
[04:30] <DarkMageZ> emet, which peice of software?
[04:30] <ajmitch> ScottK: I've got debian lists for that
[04:31] <emet> it's a hangman game
[04:31] <ScottK> emet: you can create your own PGP key.  That's not a barrier to participation.
[04:31] <emet> I'm going to release a few games hopefully
[04:31] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: How's -private these days?
[04:31] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: yawn
[04:31] <emet> http://sf.net/projects/ttygames
[04:31] <DarkMageZ> emet, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[04:32] <Fujitsu> I was hoping that -devel would be vaguely entertaining, but apparently not.
[04:32] <emet> the hangman game should be released in a few day
[04:33] <ScottK> emet: What's it written in?
[04:33] <emet> c
[04:36] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Duh.
[04:36] <jdong> ajmitch: I don't see what's the big deal, just use automatix to install codecs....
[04:36] <jdong> :D
[04:36] <ajmitch> someone please kick jdong 
[04:36] <jdong> and a merry christmas to you too
[04:36] <jdong> :)
[04:37] <jdong> as I said, before, we're a perfect personality match
[04:39] <jdong> ScottK: is that a fun button to push?
[04:39] <jdong> I guess it's your version of the live-nessus button on the forums....
[04:40] <Fujitsu> Can we please change the format of Python bytecode in an SRU in a few days? It'd be nice to stuff up Automatix.
[04:40] <ScottK> We've got fewer upgrade bugs open now that I realized that the upgrader crasher have their sources.list in the logs so I can tell if they've installed it...
[04:40] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Heh, that's good.
[04:44] <jdong> BTW, who manages the torrent tracker?
[04:44] <jdong> it's been down for 24hr+
[04:46] <Fujitsu> jdong: The Canonical sysadmins, and what do you expect with 6000 seeders?
[04:47] <jdong> Fujitsu: well... that's a lot of seeders yes
[04:50] <jdong> meh at least ISOHunt has us covered
[05:23] <imbrandon> Fujitsu / ajmitch : dident you see , Michael Dell runs Feisty + Automatix2 on his laptop :) ( as per his response to a question on his blog )
[05:24] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I know D:
[05:26] <imbrandon> man since feisty released, my website avg upload has been over 3Mb/s , normaly before it was only about 1.5 to 2 ( yes i have spikes over 70Mb/s , but i mean avg )
[05:26] <imbrandon> i have no idea why
[05:27] <Fujitsu> Well, apparently all of the issues with upgrading to Edgy were flaws in Ubuntu.
[05:28] <imbrandon> hows that Fujitsu 
[05:29] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: This mstlyevil guy says that third party stuff and Automatix are not to blame, but `problems associated with Ubuntu'.
[05:30] <imbrandon> oh ok, i thought you were serious
[05:30] <imbrandon> :)
[05:30] <LaserJock> well, we can't just rule it out either
[05:31] <LaserJock> we had quite a few broken packages
[05:31] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: There was a very neat correlation between third-party/Automatix package use and breakage.
[05:31] <Fujitsu> Sure, some of our stuff was broken. But not much.
[05:31] <imbrandon> well and honesty, have you all looked at automatix2? its supose to be better and do stuff "right"
[05:31] <LaserJock> yeah, but we need to be careful
[05:31] <jdong> I think the point was that it was a confounded cause....
[05:31] <jdong> some combination of automatix and packaging errors
[05:31] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: We can't look at it, can we?
[05:32] <imbrandon> i dunno i havent even tried
[05:32] <LaserJock> I don't know why not
[05:32] <imbrandon> why?
[05:32] <Fujitsu> They distribute .pycs.
[05:32] <imbrandon> i wouldent se why not
[05:32] <jdong> LaserJock: it's closed source
[05:32] <Fujitsu> No source, as far as I know.
[05:32] <imbrandon> what!?!
[05:32] <jdong> yeah
[05:32] <LaserJock> really? I thought they were distributing source too
[05:32] <Fujitsu> For something accused of doing evil stuff in the past, shipping no source is a little iffy.
[05:32] <jdong> it's all distributed as python object code
[05:32] <jdong> Ax2 is all closed
[05:33] <Fujitsu> That's why I suggested changing the bytecode format :P
[05:33] <imbrandon> wow, how sane
[05:33] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Uh, yeah.
[05:33] <jdong> Fujitsu: that'd break half my programming assignments and I'd have to hurt you :D
[05:33] <Fujitsu> It's obviously very trustworthy.
[05:33] <Fujitsu> It's written by arnieboy, and cannot be reviewed by others.
[05:33] <Fujitsu> I wonder how well decompyle works...
[05:33] <jdong> should work very well
[05:34] <imbrandon> :)
[05:34] <Fujitsu> Aw, doesn't do anything > 2.3
[05:34] <jdong> python bytecode should be very easily revertible to python source code
[05:35] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: the ponies are simply NOT GOLD ENOUGH.
[05:36] <LaserJock> sorry
[05:36] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:36] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:38] <ScottK> Good night all.
[05:46] <LaserJock> man, that just blows me away that it's not open source
[05:46] <LaserJock> I thought arnieboy GPL'd automatix
[05:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that means we can change the factoid, which should send more people away from it
[05:47] <Hobbsee> as we know lots of people hate binary blobs
[05:48] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True, that's a great idea.
[05:48] <Flannel> Hobbsee: The only reason it's not as pointed as it was is that the automatix community complained
[05:48] <jdong> LaserJock: automatix != automatix2
[05:48] <Hobbsee> i knew it wasnt gpl, but i thought it was some sort of other, semi free licence
[05:48] <Flannel> jdong: it still breaks stuff
[05:48] <jdong> Hobbsee: automatix was GPL
[05:49] <jdong> Flannel: I'm not saying to doesn't.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> jdong: and automatix2?
[05:49] <imbrandon> jdong, but it would be funny as hell if he used some of the 1 code:)
[05:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:49] <jdong> Hobbsee: closed source
[05:49] <jdong> imbrandon: LOL
[05:49] <imbrandon> and i'm sure he did
[05:49] <jdong> imbrandon: it's a complete rewrite from zenity -> python though
[05:49] <Hobbsee> excellent.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> !automatix
[05:49] <ubotu> automatix is a script that tries to install some software, and often fails and breaks systems. We don't provide support for it, and we strongly discourage its use. Problems caused by Automatix are often hard to track and solve, and it might sometimes be easier to !install a fresh copy of Ubuntu. See also !WorksForMe
[05:50] <jdong> imbrandon: really? totally thought you were serious :)
[05:51] <Hobbsee> !no automatix is <reply> Automatix2 is a CLOSED SOURCE script that tries to install some software, and often fails and breaks systems. We don't provide support for it, and we strongly discourage its use. Problems caused by Automatix are often hard to track and solve, and it might sometimes be easier to !install a fresh copy of Ubuntu. See also !WorksForMe
[05:51] <ubotu> I'll remember that Hobbsee
[05:51] <Hobbsee> !-automatix2
[05:51] <ubotu> automatix2 is <alias> automatix - added by apokryphos on 2006-11-02 01:16:55
[05:51] <Hobbsee> good.
[05:51] <LaserJock> well, and I was starting to warm up to automatix
[05:51] <jdong> Hobbsee: can we have a "jdong: you're going to hell" factoid for my famous jokes?
[05:52] <Hobbsee> jdong: if you like :P
[05:52] <jdong> Hobbsee: I'd be honored
[05:52] <Hobbsee> jdong: add it, then :P
[05:52] <jdong> like !hell or something :)
[05:52] <jdong> Hobbsee: how? and you guys won't get pissed?
[05:52] <Hobbsee> jdong: !foo is <reply> bar bling...
[05:53] <Hobbsee> it'll go to -ops and we can add it
[05:53] <jdong> Hobbsee: and will you guys add it? :D
[05:53] <Hobbsee> probably
[05:53] <Hobbsee> bribes are good
[05:53] <jdong> lol
[05:55] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: to be fair, I don't know that we should say "often fails and breaks systems" perhaps s/often/can/ ?
[05:55] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: from the stuf fthat i've seen from #ubuntu - often is quite tru
[05:55] <Hobbsee> e
[05:55] <LaserJock> that's because you are only looking at the broken ones
[05:56] <Hobbsee> true
[05:56] <LaserJock> there are an aweful lot of people that it works just fine for
[05:56] <Hobbsee> true
[05:56] <LaserJock> the thing we want is to be honest and not overblow it
[05:56] <Hobbsee> on one hand, the extra warnings are good - people are discouraged from trying it
[05:56] <LaserJock> because there will just be a backlash
[05:56] <Hobbsee> and both factoids got equal treatment, due to complaints
[05:57] <micahcowan> LaserJock, how about dvi2ps?
[05:58] <LaserJock> micahcowan: it might be good
[05:58] <LaserJock> micahcowan: I was thinking of asking Norbert and Frank about it
[05:58] <LaserJock> the list i have is the packages that debian-tex-maint maintain
[05:59] <micahcowan> gotcha.
[05:59] <micahcowan> apt-cache search --names-only ^tex gives a nice big list. Some of them are probably dependencies of things already listed, but a lot of them might be worth watching separately.
[06:01] <micahcowan> I'm gonna have to work with the XeTeX guys to make a reasonable package (their current one pretty much sucks). XeTeX lets you use OpenType fonts and Unicode ^_^
[06:06] <LaserJock> micahcowan: there are 140 packages in the tex section
[06:06] <ajmitch> haha
[06:06] <ajmitch> 'kubuntu gremlins from chicago'
[06:06] <micahcowan> Yeah; but texmacs, texpower, texinfo prolly don't apply LaserJock 
[06:06] <ajmitch> I wonder who...
[06:06] <micahcowan> And we may not want to add texlive-doc-* or texlive-lang-*
[06:07] <LaserJock> micahcowan: texmacs isn't in tex
[06:07] <LaserJock> nor texinfo
[06:07] <micahcowan> LaserJock, I know
[06:08] <LaserJock> one of the first things we need to do is decide on the nofree stuff
[06:08] <micahcowan> Oh, I thought you were talking about the apt-cache results; I haven't looked at the tex section.
[06:08] <LaserJock> no
[06:08] <LaserJock> mdt dist-grep-dctrl-sources feisty -n -s Package -F Section -e "tex$"| wc -l
[06:09] <LaserJock> gives 14-
[06:09] <LaserJock> 140
[06:09] <micahcowan> mdt?
[06:10] <LaserJock> multidistrotools
[06:11] <micahcowan> A lot of those packages don't apply. jadetex, for example.
[06:12] <LaserJock> that's why I was kinda hoping Norbert and Frank would help :-)
[06:13] <micahcowan> Why don't we put up a list of candidates for consideration, so we can eliminate the ones that don't make sense/we don't want to support?
[06:13] <LaserJock> go for it
[06:13] <LaserJock> I added the base one I think we should probably do
[06:13] <micahcowan> ok
[06:16] <LaserJock> we can debate texlive-lang and the nonfree stuff
[06:16] <LaserJock> I think it's kinda dumb to not have documentation
[06:17] <LaserJock> I almost asked mark about it when he was around today
[06:18] <imbrandon> is the gusty toolchain and stuff ready and uploads opened back up, like mark said they would be ?
[06:18] <imbrandon> gutsy*
[06:18] <LaserJock> I don't think the toolchain is ready yet
[06:18] <ajmitch> :)
[06:18] <ajmitch> imbrandon: not afaik
[06:18] <LaserJock> he said doko is working on it
[06:18] <imbrandon> hrm, so much for uploads on release day :)
[06:18] <LaserJock> ajmitch: why? so you can sell it on Ebay for $0.01
[06:19] <LaserJock> imbrandon: he really said that?
[06:19] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea
[06:19] <ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/unapproved/
[06:19] <micahcowan> LaserJock, could we set up a mailing list, do you think?
[06:19] <ScottK> On the Automatix thing...  I recall reading that it did stuff what would break the NEXT upgrade, so worksforme until the next upgrade.
[06:19] <ajmitch> LaserJock: because you are LaserJock 
[06:20] <LaserJock> micahcowan: yeah, I was thinking of it
[06:20] <imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
[06:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: well, it's pretty darn close
[06:20] <LaserJock> gutsy is already alive
[06:20] <LaserJock> but I don't think we can upload yet
[06:21] <imbrandon> LaserJock, its bettre than 2 weks
[06:21] <ajmitch> "alive" in the loosest of senses
[06:21] <ajmitch> imbrandon: in 2 weeks we have UDS
[06:21] <LaserJock> ajmitch: wel, people are dist-upgrading, that seem fairly alive
[06:21] <imbrandon> yea
[06:21] <ajmitch> so if it was delayed that long, it'd be more like 3.5+ weeks
[06:21] <LaserJock> even if it is just a copy of Feisty
[06:21] <imbrandon> people are dist upgrading already? smark people i tell ya
[06:22] <micahcowan> LaserJock, I think before I put a big old list up there, maybe we should decide on general guidelines, first. I'll send an email to the current members.
[06:22] <imbrandon> smart*, man this lag is killin me
[06:22] <ajmitch> dist-upgrading to nothing
[06:22] <Hobbsee> sounds like fun to me :D
[06:22] <ajmitch> we were joking earlier about how much faster gutsy is ;)
[06:22] <joejaxx> :)
[06:22] <imbrandon> lol
[06:22] <jdong> imbrandon: it's a fun day in network world, dist-upgrades are pretty bogged down, and the torrent tracker is offline...
[06:22] <jdong> it's like we should've released on friday 13th
[06:23] <jdong> ajmitch: I volunteer!
[06:23] <ajmitch> jdong: I knew you would
[06:23] <jdong> imbrandon: wouldn't you say ajmitch and I are kinda like soulmates? totally compatible personality? :D
[06:23] <micahcowan> LaserJock, what package for mdt?
[06:23] <imbrandon> jdong, yea , right up to the point where he stabs you in the eye
[06:24] <imbrandon> with a #2 pencile
[06:24] <jdong> imbrandon: :)
[06:25] <imbrandon> ajmitch, LaserJock : could either of you tell me the /proc/cpuinfo speed for tiber please, i'm lagged to hell
[06:26] <ajmitch> once I can login
[06:26] <ajmitch> cpu MHz         : 1666.582
[06:26] <ajmitch> model name      : AMD Sempron(tm)   2400+
[06:26] <imbrandon> cool, thanks
[06:28] <crimsun> jdong: it's "Needs Info".
[06:30] <jdong> crimsun: oh the ALSA thing?
[06:30] <jdong> crimsun: I got a followup message from my dude... he says Master controls the front 2 speaker but not the internal subwoofer
[06:30] <jdong> the subwoofer is controlled by 'Mono Main'
[06:31] <crimsun> jdong: intentional. That's what 'LFE' or 'Master Mono' is for.
[06:31] <ajmitch> hello crimsun 
[06:31] <ajmitch> micahcowan: that old song?
[06:31] <crimsun> jdong: it ultimately depends on the AC'97 or HDA codec.
[06:31] <micahcowan> ajmitch, video's new, I think
[06:31] <crimsun> hi ajmitch 
[06:31] <micahcowan> Whoops! I meant to post that to -offtopic...
[06:31] <ajmitch> micahcowan: I'm on amd64, I can't really tell right now :)
[06:32] <micahcowan> :(
[06:33] <jdong> crimsun: the guy claims the same audio hardware is across a long string of Dell products....
[06:33] <jdong> crimsun: what kind of hacks could be used to "tie" the two channels together?
[06:34] <crimsun> jdong: ttables (routing), but I'd need /proc/asound/card0/ac97*/* for that
[06:34] <imbrandon> brb
[06:35] <jdong> crimsun: ok, he's offline now, but I'll catch him tomorrow and get that info
[06:38] <imbrandon> hrm i cant find the mirror list on the new LP interface
[06:38] <Lathiat> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror ?
[06:38] <Lathiat> hrm or not
[06:38] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors ?
[06:39] <Lathiat> its, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[06:39] <Lathiat> heh, yeh
[06:39] <imbrandon> ahh thanks
[06:39] <ajmitch> linked straight from the main ubuntu page?
[06:39] <ajmitch> (main ubuntu page on lp)
[06:39] <ajmitch> bddebian: sure
[06:39] <imbrandon> ajmitch, not that i seen
[06:39] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[06:39] <ajmitch> there on the left
[06:39] <bddebian> ajmitch: Like what? :-)
[06:39] <Lathiat> "Show archive mirrors" :)
[06:39] <ajmitch> "show cd mirrors"
[06:39] <ajmitch> "show archive mirrors"
[06:40] <ajmitch> bddebian: like ubuntu
[06:40] <imbrandon> ahh my left is blank
[06:40] <imbrandon> hrm
[06:40] <ajmitch> bddebian: not that hurd stuff
[06:40] <imbrandon> fskin ie7
[06:40] <bddebian> ajmitch: Pfft, that wasn't what I meant :-)
[06:40] <ajmitch> bddebian: become a core dev
[06:40] <bddebian> No thanks
[06:41] <bddebian> I'm not cool enough for that crowd
[06:41] <bddebian> And actually probably not skilled enough either
[06:43] <ajmitch> so, neither am I
[06:44] <bddebian> Yeah right
[06:51] <bddebian> jellyfish: Welcome!
[06:52] <jellyfish> ello
[06:52] <jellyfish> so how do i start now?
[06:52] <bddebian> Now, get to work. ;-P
[06:54] <bddebian> jellyfish: Did I happen to send you the URL for the packaging guide?
[06:54] <jellyfish> nope =)
[06:54] <bddebian> !packaging guide
[06:54] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[06:54] <bddebian> Both of those links can be helpful
[06:54] <bddebian> Oh, hrm there's 3 there
[06:55] <bddebian> Ignore the /New one for now :_)
[06:55] <jellyfish> okie sure
[06:55] <bddebian> jellyfish: Do you have (or do you even know about) a pbuilder environment?
[06:55] <bddebian> Sorry to throw so much at you but I have to get to bed very soon
[06:56] <jellyfish> i did read on a thread about building packages on a clean-room enviromend
[06:56] <jellyfish> it's @ http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=206382
[06:57] <bddebian> Aye, that's it
[06:58] <bddebian> Are you currently running Feisty?
[07:00] <jellyfish> unforunately nope
[07:00] <bddebian> Ubuntu at all? :)
[07:00] <jellyfish> yup 
[07:00] <jellyfish> but using 6.10
[07:00] <bddebian> Edgy?
[07:01] <jellyfish> yup nt yet upgrade to the new release
[07:01] <bddebian> That's OK.  You can build a Feisty pbuilder on an Edgy machine
[07:01] <bddebian> actually you could create several different distros on any given machine
[07:02] <jellyfish> is it better to use a pbuilder or a virtual machine for clean room compilation?
[07:02] <bddebian> TBH I never us vm's so I can't answer that but pbuilder works well.
[07:02] <bddebian> s/us/use/
[07:02] <DarkMageZ> pbuilder. less performance loss over a vm.
[07:03] <jellyfish> okie so i start to learn using pbuilder
[07:04] <bddebian> It's one of the tools you will want to know yes
[07:05] <bddebian> As I said, I have to head to bed but if we can hook up again soon we can either look at a tiny bug together or once Gutsy opens up we can play with some merges.
[07:06] <bddebian> Or we could even grab some packages off of REVU and take a look, just to get you exposed to the building "experience" :)
[07:06] <jellyfish> hmmm... wat's your timezone?
[07:06] <bddebian> Eastern US
[07:07] <bddebian> It's 1am atm and I'm old :-)
[07:07] <crimsun> 1_Wake Up Dead.flac
[07:07] <jellyfish> hmmm... mine is GMT+8
[07:07] <crimsun> err, sorry
[07:08] <jellyfish> don't worry I try to adjust my timing so i can hook up with u
[07:09] <nixternal> boo
[07:09] <nixternal> and yes bddebian, you are old
[07:10] <joejaxx> merges sound fun
[07:10] <jellyfish> bddebian mind letting mi know wat's your GMT
[07:11] <ajmitch> nixternal!
[07:11] <imbrandon> if its one am for him, should be GMT-5 iirc
[07:11] <nixternal> what did I do now
[07:11] <jellyfish> okie thx =)
[07:11] <nixternal> actually he is GMT-4 now due to daylight savings
[07:12] <nixternal> imbrandon: we are GMT-5 now
[07:12] <imbrandon> oh :)
[07:12] <imbrandon> whoops
[07:12] <jellyfish> argh... DST 
[07:12] <nixternal> it took me forever to figure that out during the Paris summit
[07:12] <jellyfish> have most of u upgrade to the new release?
[07:12] <imbrandon> yea
[07:12] <joejaxx> jellyfish: since feisty opened :P
[07:13] <joejaxx> nixternal: me too
[07:13] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I tried, it bombed earlier
[07:14] <Hobbsee> ahh, we have something there now
[07:14] <ajmitch> Hobbsee!
[07:14] <Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!
[07:15] <bddebian> Gah, I lost him already just going to have a smoke, wtf..
[07:15] <nixternal> rock on
[07:15] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: uploaded the world to gutsy yet?
[07:15] <Hobbsee> not yet - pacificnet doesnt have gutsy repos yet, so i'll try it with just archive
[07:15] <ajmitch> awww
[07:15] <joejaxx> vmware
[07:15] <joejaxx> bah
[07:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'll be sorely disappointed with the complete lack of difference from feisty
[07:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you?
[07:16] <bddebian> Oh well, gnight gang
[07:16] <Hobbsee> awww
[07:16] <ajmitch> night bddebian 
[07:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: what did you expect?
[07:16] <joejaxx> Goodnight bddebian 
[07:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: but i must have my upgrades...i must, i must!!!
[07:16] <joejaxx> lol
[07:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: debian sid --> that way
[07:18] <Hobbsee> oh good, there are new packages in gutsy
[07:19] <zakame> heh
[07:19] <jdong> OH F*****
[07:19] <Hobbsee> aww, it still says it's feisty, though
[07:20] <jdong> I just typed bad blacks instead of bad BLOCKS in a thread
[07:20] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, in pbuilder, of course
[07:20] <ajmitch> jdong: well done
[07:20] <jdong> ajmitch: why thank you :)
[07:20] <jdong> ajmitch: see? soulmates, I tell you.
[07:20] <ajmitch> don't push it
[07:21] <Hobbsee> jdong: did you fix the forums?
[07:22] <ajmitch> by fix, you mean "completely removed", right?
[07:22] <jdong> Hobbsee: what's broken?
[07:22] <jdong> everything, I know.
[07:22] <jdong> :)
[07:22] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh
[07:22] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i wish
[07:24] <micahcowan> Is apt-get's -d option only meant to apply to the "source" command (download without unpacking), or am I supposed to be able to run apt-get install -d foo? When I try that as non-root, it still attempts to lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock.
[07:26] <imbrandon> what am i talking aobut i boycot them anyhow
[07:27] <joejaxx> everyone look at this while you can :)
[07:27] <joejaxx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/
[07:27] <ajmitch> joejaxx: why?
[07:27] <ajmitch> bugs generally aren't targetted against a release anyway
[07:27] <joejaxx> ajmitch: the pie chart is all green 
[07:27] <joejaxx> :P
[07:28] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: well, they are targetted at a milestone
[07:28] <Burgundavia> they shoudl be one and the same
[07:28] <LaserJock> micahcowan: sorry, I was afk
[07:29] <LaserJock> micahcowan: mdt is not in the repos. You can get a bzr branch though
[07:29] <zakame> micahcowan: -d | --download-only right?
[07:29] <micahcowan> zakame, yeah.
[07:29] <Hobbsee> come to think of it...at least we know that automatix2 will never ever make it into the repos then
[07:30] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: they should be,but usually aren't
[07:30] <micahcowan> I just reread the docs, and it definitely looks like it should download, but not install, so I'm going to file a bug about the fact that it still requires root currently.
[07:30] <LaserJock> micahcowan: bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools should get it for you
[07:30] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: YAY1
[07:30] <ajmitch> ;)
[07:30] <micahcowan> LaserJock, thanks
[07:30] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: Multiverse?
[07:30] <ajmitch> LaserJock: never
[07:31] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: that is another LP wierdness
[07:31] <LaserJock> Multiverse includes a multitude of sins ;-)
[07:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: and automatix2 won't be one of them
[07:31] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: MOTU has the power to veto that
[07:31] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:31] <Hobbsee> that too
[07:32] <ajmitch> and I'll tell pitti & keescook how bad & nasty it'll be for security
[07:32] <micahcowan> LaserJock, you have context listed, but apt doesn't seem to know about it (there is a texlive-context).
[07:32] <ajmitch> micahcowan: source package name?
[07:32] <micahcowan> ...oh. Yeah, probably.
[07:33] <micahcowan> Nope.
[07:36] <elkbuntu> thanks for the pony :)
[07:36] <joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks for the honorable mention :)
[07:36] <imbrandon> zomg look at p.d.o, automatix2 for etch , http://stratusandtheswirl.blogspot.com/2007/04/breaking-your-debian-etch-with.html
[07:37] <joejaxx> it is really in the debian archive?
[07:40] <ajmitch> hello elkbuntu 
[07:40] <ajmitch> joejaxx: no
[07:40] <joejaxx> so are there any other brave people who are going to run gutsy when the archive is fully populated
[07:40] <elkbuntu> hi ajmitch
[07:40] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, that worried me, we'll have to talk to stratus
[07:40] <joejaxx> ajmitch: oh ok i was about to say lol who let that in
[07:40] <ajmitch> joejaxx: I hope you weren't really going to say 'lol'
[07:41] <joejaxx> no
[07:41] <ajmitch> that would be embarassing to say that out loud
[07:41] <joejaxx> yeah
[07:41] <joejaxx> me too
[07:41] <joejaxx> that should be funny
[07:42] <ajmitch> or months
[07:42] <ajmitch> depends when I can be bothered
[07:43] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: no problem ;-)
[07:44] <ajmitch> ah, the mythical ponies
[07:44] <crimsun> ponies? where?
[07:45] <LaserJock> micahcowan: context is a newish package
[07:45] <ajmitch> laserjock's place
[07:47] <ajmitch> judge's decision is final, no correspondence shall be entered into, etc
[07:48] <micahcowan> LaserJock, Debian-only?
[07:48] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, unless you're hobbsee and threaten with the long pointy stick ;)
[07:48] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: nah, I'm pony-less & ok with it
[07:48] <LaserJock> micahcowan: well, it probably missed Feisty
[07:48] <micahcowan> LaserJock, does it extend tetex, then? texlive seems to have had it for a while
[07:49] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:50] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: I hope that they don't let her take that long pointy stick on the plane
[07:50] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, so am i. i have to fly with her
[07:50] <elkbuntu> s/am/do/
[07:50] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:50] <ajmitch> I feel sorry for you
[07:50] <elkbuntu> we'll make sure to bitch about you the whole 29+ hours
[07:51] <elkbuntu> ;)
[07:51] <ajmitch> that's fine, I won't hear it
[07:51] <Hobbsee> definetly :P
[07:51] <ajmitch> it's only a week in seville & then back to sanity
[07:52] <ajmitch> hello highvoltage 
[07:54] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: I'm sure you won't have much to gossip about anyway :)
[07:54] <LaserJock> micahcowan: I think it's for texlive
[07:54] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: you need to package elisa
[07:54] <Burgundavia> it rocks
[07:54] <LaserJock> micahcowan: at least it deps on texlive rather than tetex
[07:54] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, that doesnt matter. we'll just make stuff up
[07:54] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: never heard of it
[07:54] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: ok
[07:54] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: http://elisa.fluendo.com/
[07:55] <Burgundavia> basically, media centre done right
[07:55] <Burgundavia> built on top of gstreamer
[07:55] <ajmitch> ah right
[07:56] <ajmitch> remind me why I need to be the one to package it?
[07:56] <LaserJock> because you da man!!
[07:56] <Burgundavia> because I luv j00?
[07:56] <crimsun> because you're pony-less & ok with it
[07:56] <ajmitch> aw isn't that so sweet
[07:56] <Burgundavia> <bats eyelashes>
[07:56] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: isn't FDS enough for you?
[07:56] <Burgundavia> want this now!
[07:56] <ajmitch> oh right
[07:57] <LaserJock> man, the warm fuzzy feeling is just all over this place :-)
[07:57] <elkbuntu> hehehe
[07:57] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: sure, I'll whip up a package in 10 minutes
[07:57] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: actually, they already build ubuntu/debian packages
[07:57] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, careful, he'll hold you to it
[07:57] <Burgundavia> so steal their source packages
[07:57] <ajmitch> even more useful, I don't need to do anything
[07:57] <LaserJock> checkinstall and go
[07:57] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:58] <Burgundavia> automatix!
[07:58] <ajmitch> *stab*
[07:58] <LaserJock> ouch
[07:58] <LaserJock> what is this dagger doing in my back?
[07:58] <crimsun> it's texlive.
[07:58] <lifeless> et tu automatix ?
[07:59] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: you assume there are source packages, of course
[08:00] <LaserJock> but darn it, there's a .deb
[08:00] <LaserJock> isn't that enough?
[08:00] <ajmitch> of course
[08:01] <Burgundavia> clearly, with the power of automatix, it will be
[08:01] <LaserJock> can't you reverse engineer a source package?
[08:01] <ajmitch> yes
[08:01] <ajmitch> change deb... to deb-src
[08:01] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: I hate to tell you this, but you know that lovely desktop-multiplier package you built? soon you will be able to install it via automatix
[08:01] <ajmitch> and there they are
[08:01] <Burgundavia> techalign and userful are partnering
[08:02] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: ah well, at least I learned some debconf
[08:02] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: that's good
[08:02] <LaserJock> and got some spending money
[08:02] <LaserJock> but, tbh, they are a match made in heaven ;-)
[08:02] <Burgundavia> and xorg is inching closer to a completely free multiseat
[08:02] <Burgundavia> indeed, my thoughts exactly
[08:02] <Burgundavia> xorg is probably going to be using HAL to enumerate input devices
[08:02] <Burgundavia> pioneer linux
[08:02] <ajmitch> input hotplug!
[08:02] <Burgundavia> the kubuntu deriv
[08:03] <LaserJock> a commercial deriv
[08:03] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:03] <LaserJock> that sponsors Automatix now
[08:03] <Burgundavia> apparently so
[08:04] <elkbuntu> so now users have someone to sue?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> I have no idea
[08:04] <elkbuntu> it would be incredibly funny to watch
[08:05] <highvoltage> hello ajmitch!
[08:05] <ajmitch> highvoltage: ah, you are alive ;)
[08:05] <ajmitch> just getting your morning coffee? :)
[08:05] <Burgundavia> presumably they realize just how many customer computers they are going to be screwing up
[08:06] <LaserJock> isn't that what somebody said about Canonical's business model?
[08:06] <elkbuntu> something tells me 'no'
[08:06] <LaserJock> why fix bugs if you make money on support?
[08:06] <highvoltage> ajmitch: yes, and catching up with hilights from the last ~36h :)
[08:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why create work for your support team?
[08:06] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: you've read too much of the forums
[08:07] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm guessing a good 50% are sacater's
[08:07] <ajmitch> hah
[08:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: wel, perhaps not 50%, but a very god amount, yes :)
[08:07] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: somebody asked Jane Silber that at the Ubucon I think
[08:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why so many from sacater? :)
[08:07] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: ahhh
[08:07] <LaserJock> big debate there
[08:08] <LaserJock> in Paris the forums guys wanted to replace the support tracker with the forums
[08:08] <LaserJock> but Mark squashed that one
[08:08] <ajmitch> that's funny
[08:08] <StevenK> Ewwww
[08:08] <Flannel> Techalign sponsoring Automatix doesn't surprise me.  Their website isn't consistent, and has jewels like this one:
[08:09] <Flannel> TA maintains three (2) separate divisions
[08:09] <StevenK> Hah
[08:09] <Burgundavia> wow
[08:09] <LaserJock> esentially they'd really like to integrate the forums more into launchpad
[08:09] <Burgundavia> that is userful smart
[08:09] <LaserJock> but since Launchpad is more than Ubuntu it's not a good idea to integrate Ubuntu-specific stuff
[08:10] <jdong> "I possede a PC of occas DELL optiron, p4 1.7 ghz 128 of RAM DD of 80 giga the mother chart has the 2 port ide hs"
[08:10] <jdong> people should really stop trying to use automatic translators
[08:10] <jdong> it doesn't exactly turn it into English.
[08:10] <Hobbsee> urgh
[08:10] <StevenK> I want a motherchart in my machine
[08:10] <Hobbsee> no, but the thought of getting hte forums people to answer support requests isnt so bad
[08:11] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: don't. your head will explode
[08:11] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: sure, if they're answering with "install automatix"
[08:11] <jdong> StevenK: you've gotta first giga the mother chart.
[08:11] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, ah, so that's what that throbbing sensation is..
[08:11] <jdong> ajmitch: nobody's answering with install automatix!
[08:11] <StevenK> jdong: :-P
[08:11] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: especially when the support tracker sucked
[08:11] <jdong> single-sign-on between LP and the forums would be pretty sweet
[08:12] <LaserJock> the forums can be great
[08:12] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: point
[08:12] <LaserJock> they can also be really really bad
[08:12] <jdong> but it's not killer
[08:12] <StevenK> jdong: That also helps for bug filing.
[08:12] <LaserJock> jdong: yeah, single sign in is cool
[08:12] <jdong> LaserJock: same can be said about any other support medium that contains in excess of a million people
[08:12] <Hobbsee> jdong: no it wouldnt.  then the forums users would file stupid bugs on the bugtracker
[08:12] <LaserJock> jdong: excactly
[08:12] <StevenK> Or doesn't, thanks Hobbsee.
[08:12] <Burgundavia> forums have a much broader audience and thus have a broader range of tech skills
[08:12] <Burgundavia> unlike, say, us
[08:13] <LaserJock> the current "link to a LP bug from forums" is cool
[08:13] <LaserJock> but they wanted to go the other way around
[08:13] <LaserJock> link to the forums from LP
[08:13] <LaserJock> and that's where LP's generalization becomes an issue
[08:14] <ajmitch> ooh, Hobbsee posting to forums
[08:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: Where?
[08:15] <ajmitch> she's just telling people off, don't worry
[08:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha, yes
[08:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i do that, occasionally
[08:16] <ajmitch> maybe of beer
[08:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's useful to be able to say "i know what i'm talking about" - they tend to shut up after that :P
[08:17] <ajmitch> highvoltage: no, it's the weekend
[08:17] <ajmitch> beer 
[08:17] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: really? they usually just start insulting me
[08:18] <ajmitch> LaserJock: they don't often insult me
[08:18] <StevenK> And this is why I ignore the forums.
[08:18] <ajmitch> mmm, beer
[08:18] <StevenK> Since it's so easy to post, people don't think.
[08:19] <ajmitch> StevenK: like irc?
[08:19] <StevenK> ajmitch: Touche
[08:19] <ajmitch> except the forums are a permanent record
[08:19] <jdong> and there's meanies like me going around
[08:19] <ajmitch> irc is ephemeral
[08:19] <highvoltage> ajmitch: ok, it is only 08:19am here, but I'll see if can find a beer :)
[08:19] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: having the documention team creds with a join date of 2004 makes peopel listen
[08:19] <jdong> and issuing brownie points for the most amusing insults.
[08:19] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: I have forum user id 7777
[08:19] <ajmitch> a nice round number
[08:20] <ajmitch> Total Posts: 40 (0.05 posts per day)
[08:20] <elkbuntu> damnit, now i'm going to actually *go* there an check
[08:20] <jdong> ajmitch: a long lost legend :)
[08:20] <ajmitch> 40 posts in 2+ years
[08:20] <jdong> ajmitch: do you at least have the dev badge?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: where is tghat number listed?
[08:20] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I wonder what mine is, probably 6666 ;-)
[08:20] <ajmitch> jdong: hah no
[08:20] <ajmitch> jdong: I don't need it
[08:21] <jdong> ajmitch: you confuse me :)
[08:21] <jdong> Burgundavia: in the URL of your profile page
[08:21] <imbrandon> i think i have litterly 3 posts
[08:21] <imbrandon> and no dev badge ;)
[08:21] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: who would be the person to email about a mailing list request?
[08:22] <ajmitch> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=18410
[08:22] <imbrandon> LaserJock, rt@
[08:22] <ajmitch> jdong: why?
[08:22] <jdong> ajmitch: why don't you want a dev badge?
[08:22] <Burgundavia> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=446 <-- hmm, I have a low number
[08:22] <ajmitch> a very low number
[08:22] <jdong> Burgundavia: you're one of the early guys then :)
[08:22] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:23] <ajmitch> jdong: I don't deserve one
[08:23] <jdong> ajmitch: what?
[08:23] <jdong> Burgundavia: you're even lower than me :)
[08:23] <LaserJock> I have 137 posts it seems
[08:23] <Burgundavia> that was pre-warty, even
[08:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: aren't you the addict?
[08:24] <LaserJock> I'm #18410
[08:24] <jdong> Burgundavia: yeah , it must've been; I joined right around warty
[08:24] <elkbuntu> 36048
[08:24] <Burgundavia> warty was the next day
[08:24] <imbrandon> hrm wondersa what # he is
[08:24] <LaserJock> jdong: ajmitch wants to be able to flame retards with anonymity
[08:24] <LaserJock> I don't blame him
[08:25] <imbrandon> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=80394  ,  Total Posts: 3 (0.01 posts per day)
[08:25] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_James_Remnant <-- heh
[08:25] <imbrandon> :)
[08:25] <ajmitch> LaserJock: ssshhh
[08:25] <jdong> Help
[08:25] <jdong> User: imbrandon (id: 80394)
[08:25] <imbrandon> i beat ajmitch , only 3 posts :)
[08:25] <imbrandon> jdong, http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=80394  ,  Total Posts: 3 (0.01 posts per day)
[08:25] <ajmitch> imbrandon: curses!
[08:26] <ajmitch> jdong: there, you can tag imbrandon as a developer
[08:26] <jdong> imbrandon: you want a devtag while I'm in here?
[08:26] <imbrandon> sure
[08:26] <LaserJock> jdong: can I get a MOTU Diety tag? ;-)
[08:26] <ajmitch> LaserJock: Deity
[08:26] <LaserJock> Deity
[08:26] <jdong> LaserJock: haha as soon as someone makes one :D
[08:26] <LaserJock> darn it, I just can't spell that stupid thing
[08:26] <jdong> LaserJock: and it has to pass the forum mob
[08:26] <imbrandon> whats the tags do ?
[08:26] <jdong> imbrandon: boosts your ego?
[08:26] <LaserJock> how about "Ubuntu Rockstar"? :-)
[08:27] <imbrandon> oh
[08:27] <jdong> imbrandon: makes people listen to you a lot more, basically :)
[08:27] <imbrandon> ah ok
[08:27] <ajmitch> jdong: HAH
[08:27] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it lets people know that your not pulling it out of your ...
[08:27] <elkbuntu> do we cool people who dont dev get anything? :(
[08:27] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: a hug?
[08:27] <imbrandon> heheh
[08:27] <LaserJock> and hands her a pony
[08:27] <jdong> elkbuntu: a hug and maybe brownies....
[08:27] <Flannel> elkbuntu: We get a "Im not a dev but still listen to me" tag
[08:27] <StevenK> imbrandon: Get away, I don't know you that well. :-P
[08:27] <elkbuntu> hehe
[08:28] <LaserJock> bbiab
[08:28] <imbrandon> lol
[08:28] <jdong> imbrandon: you want to be tagged developer?
[08:28] <imbrandon> yea
[08:28] <imbrandon> since i am one , i guess :)
[08:28] <StevenK> elkbuntu: It just means we teach them? :-P
[08:28] <imbrandon> not that i post much
[08:28] <jdong> tada!
[08:28] <jdong> imbrandon: developer :)
[08:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: congrats!
[08:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:29] <imbrandon> i guess its official now the forum has it
[08:29] <imbrandon> :)
[08:29] <ajmitch> exactly
[08:29] <jdong> of course!
[08:29] <ajmitch> you're not a real developer until then
[08:29] <imbrandon> heh
[08:30] <jdong> certainly not :)
[08:30] <imbrandon> hrm etch or feisty for the /home and ldap server ajmitch , i'm loading it now
[08:30] <jdong> but you can be a soulmate of jdong....
[08:30] <ajmitch> imbrandon: feisty
[08:30] <imbrandon> k
[08:30] <jdong> imbrandon: a mix of both!
[08:30] <jdong> I bet there's a forum howto on that
[08:30] <jdong> </joking... hopefully>
[08:30] <ajmitch> imbrandon: we'll upgrade bits of it to gutsy as required
[08:30] <imbrandon> k
[08:30] <ajmitch> hm
[08:31] <ajmitch> beer gone :(
[08:31] <imbrandon> it has one 120 pata drive and 3 160 sata drives
[08:31] <imbrandon> :)
[08:31] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, you alco!
[08:32] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: hey that was the first one in a week!
[08:32] <ajmitch> I had to celebrate feisty release some time
[08:32] <elkbuntu> you could have savored it
[08:32] <ajmitch> shall I savour another?
[08:33] <ajmitch> or there's still some whiskey in the cupboard, which is great for savouring
[08:33] <highvoltage> where do I see my forum ID# ?
[08:33] <elkbuntu> hehe
[08:34] <StevenK> Geeez, can people wait before filing sync requests.
[08:34] <ajmitch> no
[08:35] <ajmitch> they cannot
[08:35] <StevenK> Well, you're right, they can't.
[08:35] <ajmitch> we were filing sync requests for feisty just before it opened
[08:35] <ajmitch> when there were ubuntu changes that could be dropped
[08:39] <ajmitch> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=98867
[08:39] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco 
[08:40] <jsgotangco> g'day ajmitch
[08:41] <jsgotangco> la la la and the bug reports keep on flowing...
[08:41] <ajmitch> hehe
[08:41] <ajmitch> dance in the rain of new bugs!
[08:42] <jsgotangco> ugghhh some guy is assinging bugs to himself
[08:42] <ajmitch> that's usual
[08:42] <ajmitch> for needs info bugs
[08:42] <ajmitch> crazy, but true
[08:43] <jsgotangco> that makes triage harder especially if the one assigning isn't part of the correct team right
[08:43] <jdong> oh *SHUDDER*
[08:43] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=395344
[08:43] <jdong> yay conexant debs.
[08:43] <StevenK> Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed. - Carolyn Scheppner
[08:44] <jdong> on the list of things you NEVER want to hear from dpkg....
[08:44] <ajmitch> jdong: oh that, I saw that reported earlier about virtualbox, too
[08:45] <StevenK> jdong: That isn't a serious problem, it means it was installed manually with dpkg -i
[08:45] <jdong> StevenK: read down a bit
[08:45] <ajmitch> not entirely sure why apt claims it must be reinstalled, but oh well
[08:45] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: what pains me is that if a bug reporter (usually a newbie) makes a report on an older release, the first one jumping say, run it on fiesty which isn't a good answer really
[08:45] <jdong> StevenK: he got the infamous package in a very inconsistent state error....
[08:45] <ajmitch> jdong: I've had that
[08:46] <ajmitch> it's moderately annoying
[08:46] <jdong> ajmitch: I have too... and it was usually caused by like a hard shutoff or something
[08:46] <StevenK> It can worked around.
[08:46] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: we have several well-meaning people trying to help out
[08:46] <jdong> ajmitch: and fixing it is nasty
[08:46] <ajmitch> jdong: nah, not necessarily
[08:46] <StevenK> It can also be caused by the package being completly brain-dead
[08:46] <jdong> StevenK: I'm guessing that's part of the culprit here
[08:46] <ajmitch> it can be solved without hacking dpkg files at all
[08:46] <jdong> there's conexant HDA soft modem drivers...
[08:46] <jdong> ajmitch: really?
[08:47] <StevenK> jdong: I'd suggest that the user modprobe the 4 modules it wants and then purge it like he was doing
[08:47] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: that's true though, but who's the current bug master at the moment?
[08:47] <StevenK> If you can make the postrm exit 0, dpkg will be cope and kill it.
[08:47] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: bdmurray?
[08:47] <jsgotangco> right
[08:48] <ajmitch> bye Laser_away 
[08:48] <ajmitch> we'll miss you
[08:48] <jdong> well time to call it a night....
[08:48] <jdong> good night everyone
[08:48] <highvoltage>  goodnight jdong 
[08:49] <imbrandon> gnight jdong 
[08:49] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:50] <ajmitch> because jdong is like that
[08:57] <StevenK> Hum.
[08:58] <imbrandon> sub trim($)
[08:58] <imbrandon> { my $string = shift; $string =~ s/^\s+//; $string =~ s/\s+$//; return $string;
[08:58] <imbrandon> }
[08:58] <imbrandon> hehe :)
[08:58] <StevenK> Ew
[08:59] <imbrandon> he that was 2 seconds, i dident say it was perfect :)
[08:59] <imbrandon> hey*
[08:59] <ajmitch> StevenK: I agree
[08:59] <imbrandon> brb
[08:59] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: has simon law and/or ian jackson left canonical?
[09:00] <ajmitch> iwj is certainly still around
[09:00] <imbrandon> i dont think ian has /yet/ that i know of, no idea about simon
[09:00] <ajmitch> I haven't seen sfllaw lately
[09:00] <Burgundavia> what is ian doing?
[09:00] <jsgotangco> it seems sflaw left
[09:01] <imbrandon> firefox among other things
[09:01] <jsgotangco> as well as rodrigo
[09:01] <Burgundavia> I knew about rodrigo, I didn't realize simon did as well
[09:01] <Burgundavia> I am not shocked, qa is a bloody hard
[09:01] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:01] <Burgundavia> http://sfllaw.livejournal.com/
[09:01] <Burgundavia> top entry
[09:01] <ajmitch> I didn't know that simon left
[09:02] <ajmitch> a real shame
[09:02] <jsgotangco> im gonna attempt to swim on these 250 unassigned in xorg hehe
[09:02] <ajmitch> I was looking forward to drinking with him in seville
[09:02] <jsgotangco> yeah simon is fun
[09:02] <ajmitch> since I owed him a drink from last time :)
[09:02] <Burgundavia> http://akoha.org/
[09:02] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:02] <Burgundavia> looks web2.0 dot-comish
[09:03] <imbrandon> yea thats a shame
[09:03] <jsgotangco> interesting
[09:04] <imbrandon> hopefully he will still be a semi-active part of the community
[09:04] <imbrandon> though
[09:08] <imbrandon> guess i should fixup some of those debian BTS bugs for apt-mirror for lenny/gutsy
[09:10] <StevenK> Right. That should have beaten my mirroring script into some semblance of saneness.
[09:12] <imbrandon> my "mirror" script is quite simple hehe
[09:12] <imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ cat /usr/local/bin/mirror
[09:12] <imbrandon> rsync --delete-after -a -v -r -z -P rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu /storage/files/ubuntu/rsync/
[09:12] <imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$
[09:12] <imbrandon> :)
[09:16] <imbrandon> StevenK, ajmitch , crimsun , and those others of you going to Spain, what do you think of my ( used loosely ) Blueprint Idea http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/04/12/blueprint-idea/
[09:18] <StevenK> imbrandon: I simply don't have the hard drive space for that.
[09:19] <StevenK> imbrandon: I'm using debmirror, and a little bit of complexity because debmirror is brain-dead.
[09:19] <StevenK> imbrandon: I'm not going to Spain.
[09:20] <StevenK> imbrandon: EWWWW
[09:20] <imbrandon> ??
[09:20] <StevenK> imbrandon: Your Blueprint idea
[09:21] <StevenK> imbrandon: Just ship both in the package, it being incredibly easy to do, simple and doesn't involve splitting every package that provides an init script into 3.
[09:21] <ajmitch> massive archive bloat
[09:21] <ajmitch> elmo will hunt you down & kill you in your sleep
[09:22] <StevenK> Yup. The archive admins/canonical sysadmins would hunt you for sport.
[09:22] <imbrandon> that requires every maintainer in debian to agree that they need the initi script ( plus would install init scripts for 2 init systems ( maybe conflicting ) on the same box
[09:22] <StevenK> imbrandon: /etc/init.d is less than a 1Mb
[09:22] <StevenK>  /etc/event.d is 22K
[09:22] <StevenK> So who cares about less than 1Mb of hard drive space?
[09:22] <StevenK> If you say embedded, I will kill you.
[09:23] <jussi01> morning motu's!
[09:23] <imbrandon> lol
[09:23] <imbrandon> well even if you did non init scripts in packages and put them all in one, like upstart-init and sysv-niit
[09:23] <imbrandon> or something would work out the same
[09:24] <StevenK> That already happened
[09:24] <imbrandon> ( and far less packages , only 2 or 3 more )
[09:24] <StevenK> So nyah
[09:24] <StevenK> Not every init script mind you, just base
[09:24] <imbrandon> hum ok, maybe i should look a little more into it
[09:24] <imbrandon> as i said in the begining of the post, just an idea
[09:25] <imbrandon> :)
[09:30] <StevenK> imbrandon: If you want elmo to clear a spot for your head on his wall, sure, float it.
[09:32] <imbrandon> StevenK, hehe
[09:32] <Fujitsu> Yay, gutsy-changes is alive.
[09:33] <RAOF> Oh, time to subscribe :)
[09:33] <ajmitch> it's been alive for awhile  now
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Well, the first email was about 40 minutes ago.
[09:33] <ajmitch> you just need to catch up :)
[09:34] <imbrandon> moins anibal 
[09:34] <Fujitsu> Hi anibal.
[09:34] <Fujitsu> Thanks for the sponsorship a few days back.
[09:34] <anibal> Fujitsu, NP :)
[09:34] <ajmitch> hello anibal, koke 
[09:35] <anibal> ajmitch, hola :)
[09:36] <anibal> imbrandon, moins :)
[09:40] <Fujitsu> anibal: What brings you to these parts?
[09:40] <imbrandon> that was fast ( koke, join/part )
[09:40] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, anibal ( idles ) here alot :)
[09:45] <jsgotangco> huh nasa standoff?
[09:46] <npodges> can anyone point me in the right direction for creating .deb packages from source + adding a launcher to the gnome main menu in the package?
[09:47] <Fujitsu> !packagingguide
[09:47] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[09:47] <Fujitsu> npodges: ^^
[09:48] <Fujitsu> npodges: For the menu entry, you want a .desktop file. Some upstream sources already contain them, but you might have to write one.
[09:49] <DarkMageZ> for examples on how to add these .desktop files. you can just checkout other packages which already have them :)
[09:51] <npodges> thanks!
[09:51] <npodges> time to go package llk_linux
[09:51] <npodges> ;)
[09:52] <DarkMageZ> llk_linux?
[09:53] <npodges> http://sourceforge.net/projects/llk-linux
[09:53] <npodges> it's a semifun puzzle game that uses pokemon images as tiles
[09:53] <npodges> O.o
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Sounds nice and copyright-breaching.
[09:54] <npodges> haha, yeah i'm sure it is
[09:54] <npodges> i only wanna package it for the purpose of learning packing
[09:54] <npodges> you guys make it hard to find good software that's not packaged.
[09:54] <npodges> ;)
[09:55] <DarkMageZ> once your skill levels have risen. i've left a peice of software for a new person.
[09:55] <imbrandon> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2154184680.html
[09:56] <jsgotangco> imbrandon: yeah those via boards are really neat, we have lots of them over here mostly SBCs
[09:59] <npodges> okay, it's like four here, time for bed. Fujitsu + DarkMageZ, thanks
[09:59] <Fujitsu> Night, npodges.
[10:00] <StevenK> Has gutsy had any uploads worth a damn yet?
[10:00] <Fujitsu> StevenK: binutils and tzdata are the only two accepted ones.
[10:00] <Fujitsu> There's a few other things in UNAPPROVED, though.
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
[10:04] <Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
[10:04] <jussi01> hello Hobbsee 
[10:05] <Hobbsee> hi jussi01 
[10:19] <anibal> Fujitsu, I contributed a bit to ubuntu sometime ago :)
[10:19] <Fujitsu> anibal: OK, I guess I'd never thought to look for you on this side of the fence.
[10:25] <ivoks> does anyone still has hoary enywhere? :)
[10:25] <ivoks> anywhere..
[10:26] <imbrandon> as in installed?
[10:26] <ivoks> yes... i would like to try rebuilding one package for it :/
[10:26] <imbrandon> oh, nope
[10:26] <ivoks> if possible :)
[10:26] <imbrandon> just use a horay pbuilder
[10:27] <imbrandon> :)
[10:27] <ivoks> yeah.. but where do i get debs from? :)
[10:27] <imbrandon> the arcives still ahve the debs
[10:27] <imbrandon> archives
[10:27] <imbrandon> they just arent updated
[10:27] <ivoks> oh... right
[10:28] <ivoks> thanks :)
[10:28] <imbrandon> hrm looks like i need to pickup a nother Motherboard for the server ajmitch 
[10:29] <imbrandon> this one isnt gonna do
[10:29] <imbrandon> hrm store opens at 10am ....
[10:37] <damko> hi all
[10:56] <Lamego> Hello
[10:56] <Lamego> anyone able to help me with CDBS ?
[10:57] <Hobbsee> can try.  what about it?
[10:57] <ajmitch> depends what you need to do with it
[10:58] <Lamego> simple, I need it to not override the CFLAGS which are alaready defined on the Makefile
[10:58] <RAOF> Lamego: I actually looked at this some time ago.
[10:58] <RAOF> As far as I can tell, you have to edit one of the CDBS rules, which unconditionally sets CFLAGS to some sane defaults.
[10:59] <Lamego> It insists on passing CFLAGS=-g -Wall -O2
[10:59] <RAOF> Indeed.
[10:59] <RAOF> You want to grep /usr/share/cdbs for that.
[10:59] <Lamego> well, that means I will need to change the original makefile, to use another var name
[10:59] <Lamego> I am not going to change the cdbs templates :)
[10:59] <RAOF> Fair enough.
[10:59] <Lamego> I had some hope there was an option to avoid this
[11:00] <RAOF> Why does it need special CFLAGS?
[11:01] <RAOF> Actually, you could probably set CFLAGS to what you want it to be in debian/rules, now that I come to think of it.
[11:01] <Lamego> well, the original source Makefile is using CFLAGS with all the required flags
[11:01] <RAOF> But the Makefile is surely being regenerated by ./configure, right?
[11:01] <Lamego> sure, but that means I will have to check that instead of using the upstream makefile wich does work flawless with "make" ;)
[11:02] <Lamego> not, it does not use autoconf/configure, it is a hand made Makefile
[11:02] <Lamego> I am using the automake class
[11:02] <_filippo_> hey i've written a little gnome game and for the next release i'd like to make it acceptable to enter ubuntu repositories. Someone said that it _must_ have a man page.. is it true?
[11:02] <RAOF> _filippo_: Yup.  Everything in /usr/bin has a man page.
[11:03] <Lamego> games go into /usr/games :D
[11:03] <RAOF> But it doesn't have to be very big, if there's not much to say :)
[11:03] <Lamego> _filippo_, is the game already available ?
[11:03] <_filippo_> Lamego: the 0.1 version, yes
[11:03] <_filippo_> www.autistici.org/gnome-mastermind
[11:03] <Lamego> _filippo_, is it playable ?
[11:03] <RAOF> Lamego: The automake class sounds wrong, if you're not regenerating the makefile.
[11:03] <_filippo_> yes
[11:03] <Lamego> ah, i saw it on gnomefiles :)
[11:04] <_filippo_> Did you tried it?
[11:04] <_filippo_> :P
[11:04] <Lamego> RAOF, the automake class is for when you have a base Makefile, as far I could understood
[11:04] <_filippo_> Lamego: so if i put it in /usr/games i don't have to provide a man page?
[11:04] <Lamego> _filippo_, not yet, because of the "0.1", but since it's playable I will package and release it on getdeb
[11:05] <RAOF> It just sounds like automake/autotools, which is all about regenerating your Makefiles :)
[11:05] <_filippo_> Lamego: it's quite stable and playable but i'm going to release 0.2 soon because a guy from tango send me brand new icons :D
[11:06] <Lamego> _filippo_, I am not a MOTU, I have no idea, it is a good practice to have a manpage, not sure it is a requirements but I did saw some reviewers asking for the man page
[11:06] <Lamego> when do you plan for the 0.2 ? To save me time to not build the .1 :P
[11:06] <Lamego> _filippo_, do you have any experience with debian packaging ?
[11:06] <RAOF> It's trivial to write a man page.  It'll take you approximately an hour, and that's including learning how to write a man page :)
[11:06] <Lamego> does it contains a .desktop file ?
[11:07] <Lamego> 1h for something that no one will read, a graphical game manpage :P
[11:07] <_filippo_> Lamego: maybe today or within next days..
[11:07] <\sh> moins
[11:07] <RAOF> Good evening.
[11:07] <_filippo_> i'm not experienced in debian packaging
[11:07] <_filippo_> RAOF no gnome game have a man page
[11:08] <_filippo_> Lamego: 0.2 will contain desktop files, polish and italian translation, and some bugfix
[11:08] <Lamego> _filippo_, I can help you, or build it for you, except for the political aspects of it, like digging for the copyright messages
[11:08] <\sh> guys, did anybody successfully started vmware-server on feisty? I get always this strange message of missing version information of vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0 (required by libcairo bla)
[11:09] <jussi01> \sh: runs fine here
[11:09] <ajmitch> \sh: works for me
[11:09] <RAOF> _filippo_: Eh, well, if it installs into /usr/games, it probably doesn't need a manpage then :).
[11:09] <ajmitch> \sh: amd64?
[11:09] <\sh> ajmitch: intel dual core
[11:09] <_filippo_> Lamego: If you would build it for me it would be great! political issues have been already reviewd buy gna.org guys where i host the project
[11:09] <ajmitch> yes, but what arch? :P
[11:09] <jussi01> \sh there was some weird setup though - i found it on the forums
[11:09] <\sh> I used the mware any any update 109
[11:10] <_filippo_> s/buy/by :P
[11:10] <ajmitch> are you running it on i386 or amd64?
[11:10] <\sh> ajmitch: i386 only
[11:10] <\sh> no emt64 mode ;)(
[11:10] <ajmitch> ok
[11:10] <ajmitch> shame
[11:10] <\sh> it's just this png issue
[11:10] <Lamego> _filippo_, joao.pinto@getdeb.net, just send me an email when you have 0.2 ready, I will publish it on getdeb only, you will have to get the diff.gz and purse for the MOTU approvals
[11:10] <_filippo_> RAOF: by default it goes in /usr/local like every software.. prefix is a maintainer decided thing. I could just suggest it.
[11:11] <Lamego> pursue
[11:11] <RAOF> _filippo_: Well, we seem to have a /usr/games in Ubuntu, and that's where the Gnome games are...
[11:11] <\sh> /usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: /usr/lib/vmware/lib/libpng12.so.0/libpng12.so.0: no version information available (required by /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2)
[11:11] <Lamego> as long prefix can be defined at build time :)
[11:11] <\sh> that's the message
[11:11] <\sh> and linking the systems lib doesn't work
[11:11] <Lamego> _filippo_, it is using a plain autoconf configure right ?
[11:12] <Lamego> ajmitch, applications love different distros providing imcompatible versions of libs :)
[11:12] <_filippo_> Lamego: i'll send you an email as soon as i release next version and then we'll talk again about the path to follow to enter repositories (thanks ;D)
[11:12] <Lamego> ok :)
[11:12] <_filippo_> Lamego: yes it use autotools
[11:12] <Lamego> ok, so /usr/games is just the bindir option :)
[11:13] <Lamego> nothing you need to care about as long you have a proper install rule
[11:13] <_filippo_> Lamego: i think install rules behave right. I'll make some more test with /usr/games prefix
[11:14] <Lamego> _filippo_, well, just make sure it has an help page, for those which don't know the mastermind game (newer kids don't :P)
[11:15] <Lamego> _filippo_, test it with: ./configure --bindir=/tmp/usr/games
[11:15] <Lamego> ;)
[11:15] <_filippo_> Lamego: it doesn't have an help page yet. But i'm already documenting myself on how to make it 
[11:15] <Lamego> ok :)
[11:16] <\sh> ajmitch: did you make a clean install of feisty or just dist-upgrade from edgy to get vmware work...I'm really stucked
[11:17] <ajmitch> dist-upgrade, but I'm using amd64
[11:18] <\sh> ajmitch: ah 
[11:18] <_filippo_> Lamego: i've just added you to my contacts. You'll be the first aware of next release ;) thanks!!
[11:19] <Lamego> ok, thanks :)
[11:20] <Lamego> back to my problem, any other tip on how to force it to not override CFLAGS ?
[11:20] <Lamego> i mean, it, CDBS with automake
[11:21] <RAOF> Lamego: You could (possibly) unset CFLAGS in debain/rules?
[11:21] <Lamego> RAOF, btw, i mean't makefile.mk, not automake :P
[11:22] <Lamego> hum, how do I unset a variable on a makefile ? unset ?
[11:22] <RAOF> But I'm not actually sure how your Makefile fails if you set CFLAGS.  That implies that it's reading the env variable CFLAGS, but you say that it's already hard-coded to the right value?
[11:22] <Lamego> anyway, it wouldn't fix it, becaue cdbs is calling make all CFLAGS=$CFLAGS
[11:22] <Lamego> which would do CFLAGS=
[11:22] <Lamego> and overried it anyway, with a void value
[11:23] <Lamego> RAOF, /usr/bin/make  -C . CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="" LDFLAGS=""  
[11:23] <Lamego> this is how debian/rules binary is "making" the make
[11:23] <RAOF> Ok, looks fine.
[11:24] <RAOF> What I was asking was, "why is setting CFLAGS to something breaking your Makefile"?
[11:24] <Lamego> no it does not, because CFLAGS is also defined on the Makefile, and thats the CFLAGS I need :)
[11:24] <Lamego> yes
[11:24] <Lamego> CFLAGS=$(DEFS) $(INCLUDES) -O3 -march=i486 -ffast-math -fexpensive-optimizations
[11:24] <Lamego> :P
[11:24] <Lamego> well, and the same for LDFLAGS , which is actually the problem
[11:24] <RAOF> That should override whatever is passed in, though?
[11:25] <Lamego> RAOF, that was what I thought, but it does not
[11:25] <Lamego> the make command line parameter set overrides the file based
[11:25] <Lamego> gcc -g -Wall -O2  -o obj/misc/sys_linux.o -c misc/sys_linux.c
[11:26] <RAOF> Cool.  Well, worst case scenario is you patch the makefile with a bit of "sed s/CFLAGS/STUPIDFLAGS/"
[11:26] <RAOF> Make sure that's an actual patch, of course :)
[11:27] <Lamego> RAOF, I did that for another package, it does work, but that's an ugly hack
[11:27] <RAOF> Then use debhelper rather than CDBS.
[11:27] <Lamego> hum, let me try to override DEB_MAKE_BUILD_TARGET
[11:27] <Lamego> RAOF, that is also ugly :P
[11:28] <RAOF> Nothing wrong with debhelper, it's just not so totally automated.
[11:28] <Lamego> well, i will go into the hack option, rename the LD_FLAGS on the makefile
[11:28] <Lamego> I am bored :P
[11:29] <RAOF> Bored?  Could you hunt down some democracyplayer bugs then? :P
[11:30] <Lamego> nope, I just package, bug hunting is for developers :P
[11:31] <Hobbsee> doesnt packaging make you a developer?
[11:31] <RAOF> Not if you package to getdeb :(
[11:32] <Hobbsee> oh yes, the one without the sources, so could be entirely crackful?
[11:32] <ajmitch> be nice
[11:32] <Lamego> no, developing and compiling are different processes which required different skills, you need to understand a build process to be a developer, you don't need to have development skills to build
[11:33] <Lamego> also, usually building uses some minimal standard processes, while developing or bug fixing requires you to understand how the application was coded
[11:33] <RAOF> Heh.  Not really :)
[11:33] <Lamego> unless it is a trivial bug, like a wrong path or similar
[11:34] <RAOF> You'd be *amazed* how many trivial bugs there are.
[11:34] <Lamego> but again, even for trivial patches you need to have some development experience :)
[11:36] <Lamego> grr, broken install rule
[11:59] <siretart> greetings from a local LUG event. Feisty install count is already 2 :)
[11:59] <jsgotangco> yay
[11:59] <jsgotangco> bling bling
[12:00] <Hobbsee> woo!
[12:01] <ajmitch> hey siretart 
[12:01] <jekil> hello
[12:01] <jsgotangco> hrmm how does this cube spinning work
[12:01] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:02] <jsgotangco> ctrl+alt driection just switches not spins
[12:02] <\sh> wtf...Subject: [Build #319733]  amd64 build of xmms2 0.2DrHouse-3.1ubuntu3 in ubuntu gutsy RELEASE
[12:02] <\sh> gutsy is already open? ,-)
[12:03] <DktrKranz> no, AFAIK
[12:03] <Nafallo> \sh: seems like it. just waiting for maswan to sync ;-)
[12:03] <Lamego> /tmp/ccYj5v7j.s:1127: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `mov'
[12:03] <Lamego>  - amd64 - any idea on this error ?
[12:03] <DktrKranz> I received some emails too
[12:04] <ajmitch> \sh: yep
[12:04] <DktrKranz> wait: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=
[12:05] <siretart> \sh: see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - status: Pre-release Freeze
[12:05] <DktrKranz> it seems so!
[12:05] <Nafallo> still a.u.c has folders for it... :-)
[12:05] <Nafallo> I just keep my feisty entries around for now :-)
[12:05] <siretart> \sh: so things have been created in launchpad and the mirrors, but the publisher and the archive processing machinery is still in manual mode
[12:06] <ajmitch> Get:1 http://apt-proxy gutsy/main tzdata 2007e-3ubuntu1 [317kB] 
[12:07] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:07] <Nafallo> Fel http://se.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 2001:6b0:e:2018::137 80] 
[12:07] <Nafallo> :-P
[12:09] <DktrKranz> merges.ubuntu.com is unavailable, any news about it?
[12:09] <ajmitch> nope
[12:09] <ajmitch> be patient :)
[12:09] <DktrKranz> of course :)
[12:09] <\sh> ajmitch: anything new from your laptop? ,-)
[12:10] <ajmitch> \sh: wait until I have it updated & rebooted
[12:18] <ajmitch> \sh: good news, it does exactly the same for me on i386
[12:19] <\sh> ajmitch: running or throwing the error?
[12:20] <Lathiat> hrm 170K/s from se.archive over IPv6
[12:20] <Lathiat> not bad for ipv6
[12:22] <ajmitch> \sh: error & doesn't run
[12:24] <\sh> ajmitch: oh wow...I'm fcked
[12:26] <ajmitch> there'll be some solution :)
[12:27] <\sh> ajmitch: how? ,-) modules are fine, just this png/cairo prob...
[12:28] <\sh> and I need my vmware windows installation to extract my vpn certs ,-)
[12:33] <ajmitch> \sh: are you getting a theme error as well?
[12:33] <\sh> ajmitch: nope...just this libpng issue
[12:34] <\sh> ajmitch: are you running compiz/ beryl?
[12:35] <ajmitch> yes, compiz
[12:35] <ajmitch> though that doesn't stop it running on my amd64
[12:35] <\sh> ajmitch: try to run normal gnome/kde/ without compiz/beryl crap
[12:35] <\sh> ajmitch: but the libpng issue will stay
[12:36] <ajmitch> metacity is running now
[12:36] <ajmitch> no go
[12:37] <\sh> ajmitch: and all hints from dr. google are explaining us: "overwrite libpng12.so.0 with the systems one.." doing it, vmware won't start
[12:45] <ajmitch> \sh: strace shows it segfaulting after trying to load a libdbus-glib-1.so.1
[12:46] <\sh> ajmitch: hmmm...there was something I found having to do with libdbus
[12:47] <ajmitch> yeah, it's crashing on read/write on the dbus socket
[12:48] <\sh> ajmitch: what would be a good solution...dbus is vital ;)
[12:49] <elkbuntu> ffs.. the feisty installer suX0r for doing logical partitions :(
[12:50] <ajmitch> k, got it running
[12:50] <ajmitch> evil LD_PRELOAD
[12:50] <ajmitch> LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3 vmware
[12:50] <xopher> elkbuntu, what's the difference between a logical and an extended partition?
[12:50] <ajmitch> \sh: hope that helps :)
[12:51] <elkbuntu> xopher, a logical partition is like a container for other partitions, a way to cheat the 4 partition limit
[12:51] <ajmitch> much cleaner
[12:51] <xopher> I see, thanks
[12:51] <\sh> ajmitch: you are my man...you made my day 
[12:51] <ajmitch> \sh: strace helped a lot :)
[12:51] <\sh> ajmitch: so wrapper-gtk24 is broken somehow, right?
[12:52] <ajmitch> *something* is very broken
[12:52] <ajmitch> like a lib that they ship that's linked against old dbus, that isn't being overridden
[12:52] <DarkMageZ> xopher, an extended partion is a container for logical partitions... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
[12:52] <\sh> ajmitch: argl.
[12:53] <ajmitch> \sh: I don't know, that's as far as I got
[12:53] <elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, ah right... i always mess up the terminology.. still.. the installer sux0r
[12:54] <\sh> ajmitch: I'll work on it
[12:54] <DarkMageZ> elkbuntu, i lost points in an exam for getting it the wrong way round once :(
[12:54] <elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, that'd suck
[12:55] <DarkMageZ> atleast i got a half mark for understanding the concept
[12:55] <elkbuntu> thank goodness gparted comes on the cd
[12:56] <DarkMageZ> anyone going to wish me luck on my building firefox against QT mission?
[12:56] <elkbuntu> nah
[12:57] <ajmitch> \sh: you should get some time off & get to seville :)
[12:58] <\sh> ajmitch: no ways...I have to move places from cologne to karlsruhe on first of june, I want to go to LinuxTag the last week in may...and I hope my boss is not canceling my holiday for this date...I'm busy as hell..even my GF is complaining
[12:59] <ajmitch> aw
[01:01] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: figured out all your travel plans? :)
[01:01] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, yep
[01:03] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, and i get into seville around 1pm
[01:03] <ajmitch> on the friday?
[01:03] <ajmitch> so I can get my 5 hours sleep & be ready for specs bright & early ;)
[01:04] <elkbuntu> yeah the friday
[01:10] <elkbuntu> you will probably succeed in getting more sleep than those of us at the Ubucon. sladen seems to have promised the locals all-night partying or something :-/
[01:19] <ajmitch> sounds like fun
[01:27] <mr_pouit> mmmh, revu is doing weird things :] 
[01:28] <mr_pouit> my review was too long, he 'crashed', but it was sent by mail :] 
[01:28] <ajmitch> such as?
[01:29] <mr_pouit> the full review was sent by mail, but doesn't appear on revu ^^"
[01:29] <ajmitch> fun
[01:29] <ajmitch> too large for the DB field, perhaps
[01:29] <ajmitch> if it's as long as you said
[01:29] <mr_pouit> yes, that was too long (over 2048 or something)
[01:33] <ajmitch> a comment on scribes?
[01:35] <mr_pouit> yes
[01:36] <ajmitch> interesting
[01:36] <ajmitch> something for siretart or sistpoty to look at :)
[01:37] <mr_pouit> ^^
[01:38] <\sh> grmpf...why do i need a special contract to download ciscos vpn client...
[01:39] <ajmitch> because cisco are special
[01:40] <pochu> The following packages will be upgraded: tzdata [2007b-0ubuntu1 -> 2007e-3ubuntu1] 
[01:40] <pochu> yeah! :)
[01:41] <ajmitch> oh dear
[02:19] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[02:20] <geser> Hi DarkSun88
[02:57] <StevenK> \sh: You keep playing with wine?
[02:59] <\sh> StevenK: sure..and trying to install cisco vpn client on feisty...whatever CHECKSUM_HW is, it fcks with me now ,)
[03:01] <\sh> ha
[03:01] <\sh> http://www.tuxx-home.at/projects/cisco-vpnclient/vpnclient-linux-2.6.19.diff this helped
[03:05] <Fujitsu> \sh: Why not use vpnc?
[03:06] <\sh> Fujitsu: just because it doesn't work , friend tried it already on debian with our cisco firewall
[03:08] <Hobbsee> wow, i featured in behind motu
[03:09] <StevenK> Heh
[03:38] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[04:38] <Q-FUNK> bug 108556
[04:38] <ubotu> Malone bug 108556 in upgrade-system "KDECdromProgressAdapter instance has no attribute 'progressbar'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108556
[04:39] <Q-FUNK> yet another case of someone assigning their bug to a random package
[04:56] <superm1_> imbrandon, ping
[05:11] <ScottK> You all have all the fun conversations while I'm sleeping...
[05:34] <DJ-Lethal> hola
[05:34] <DJ-Lethal> alguien ke sepa espaol?
[05:40] <sladen> DJ-Lethal: #ubuntu-es
[06:21] <tsmithe> does debian/ubuntu use the FHS or another standard, i can never remember?
[06:22] <geser> the FHS
[06:22] <tsmithe> cool
[06:24] <ScottK> tsmithe: bug: #108577
[06:24] <ScottK> Err bug #108577
[06:24] <ubotu> Malone bug 108577 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio esd wrapper is not working with gnome" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108577
[06:24] <tsmithe> oh damnit :P
[06:25] <gpocentek> hello world
[06:28] <ScottK> Hello
[06:40] <marseillai> hi
[06:40] <marseillai> i'm looking for some help
[06:40] <marseillai> since 3 days i'm trying to make a cdbs package of manslide, and i'm totally failing! my package is always empty
[06:41] <ScottK> marseillai: I don't know packaging C programs, so I can't help other than to say don't give up.
[06:42] <marseillai> ScottK: it's QT4 program ...
[06:42] <ScottK> OK.  I don't know that either.
[06:42] <ScottK> Sorry
[06:42] <marseillai> oki
[06:43] <marseillai> it's hard to find up2date tutorial on CDBS
[06:44] <ScottK> Agreed.  cdbs is like black magic.
[06:46] <gpocentek> marseillai: could you upload your source package somewhere?
[06:46] <gpocentek> I'll have a look
[06:46] <marseillai> ScottK: and there some great magician people around him! :) may be some wizard
[06:47] <marseillai> gpocentek: yes of course
[06:47] <gpocentek> cdbs rocks :)
[06:47] <marseillai> gpocentek: ftp://marseillai.homelinux.org/manslide.tar.gz
[06:49] <gpocentek> marseillai: downloading
[06:49] <marseillai> oki
[06:50] <gpocentek> oh, thunar-thumbnailers on REVU, nice 
[07:05] <sacater> hey guys, how do i access the firewall settings?
[07:05] <jussi01> sacater, through iptables commands or install firestarter
[07:05] <sacater> okies
[07:07] <sacater> jussi01: and what command do i run?
[07:07] <jussi01> sacater, I cant remember them, what are you tring to do?
[07:07] <ScottK> sacater: Working with iptables directly is pretty complex.  Unless you want to make a real study of it, install firestarter
[07:26] <gpocentek> marseillai: did you try to install the software on your system?
[07:28] <LaserJock> wahoo, I get the Ultra 10 :-)
[07:29] <LaserJock> joejaxx would be proud
[07:29] <_MMA_> :)
[07:31] <LaserJock> now I gotta figure out where to put it
[07:31] <LaserJock> luckily from the pics/specs I dug up on it it isn't going to be as big as I thought
[07:34] <gpocentek> marseillai: the Makefile seems broken: gauvain@joe:~/dev/MOTU/manslide/manslide/Manslide-1.5.3$ sudo make install
[07:34] <gpocentek> make: Rien  faire pour  install .
[07:38] <jussi01> LaserJock: I want a pony!!
[07:43] <LaserJock> jussi01: well, work hard and maybe you'll get one for Gutsy ;-)
[07:43] <jussi01> LaserJock: I will... :D
[07:47] <pwnguin> so if a debian developer is complaining that they don't see patches from ubuntu, where should i direct them to?
[07:49] <LaserJock> pwnguin: patches.ubuntu.com
[07:49] <LaserJock> pwnguin: and packages.qa.debian.org
[07:50] <pwnguin> is patches up?
[07:50] <LaserJock> pwnguin: sorry, I think I gave you the wrong URL for that one
[07:51] <pwnguin> ive seen it in various "lets play with debian!" specs
[07:51] <pwnguin> but they're so old i wonder if launchpad took over that role
[07:51] <LaserJock> not really
[07:51] <LaserJock> they are feed to Debian though
[07:51] <LaserJock> *fed
[07:51] <LaserJock> so really debian maintainers should look at there PTS page
[07:51] <pwnguin> via?
[07:52] <LaserJock> pwnguin: got a particular package in mind?
[07:52] <pwnguin> fetchmail is the one he mentioned in particular
[07:54] <pwnguin> ubnubtu catches that it's different
[07:54] <pwnguin> but it doesnt seem to pass this on to anyone
[07:55] <pwnguin> (but ubnubtu is a debian system i guess)
[07:56] <LaserJock> well
[07:56] <LaserJock> Ubuntu does send the patches
[07:58] <pwnguin> what if the debian version is higher than ubuntus?
[07:58] <LaserJock> hmm, that might take out the patch on PTS
[07:58] <LaserJock> I'm not sure
[07:58] <LaserJock> but there was a little thing on the left sidebar that had a link to Ubuntu patches
[07:59] <pwnguin> you have an example?
[07:59] <LaserJock> I'm fairly certain it's patches.ubuntu.com or changes.ubuntu.com that has the patches
[08:00] <pwnguin> i suppose its possible patches is down due to feisty
[08:00] <LaserJock> yes, I'm fairly certian
[08:00] <LaserJock> virtually everything was down due to feisty :-)
[08:01] <LaserJock> well, in any case. Ubuntu does provide patches
[08:02] <LaserJock> they often aren't chunked up into individual patches like maintainers might like
[08:02] <LaserJock> but they are there
[08:02] <pwnguin> well nion's position is that he hasnt ever seen any
[08:02] <LaserJock> and we definately encourage people to push patches upstream
[08:02] <LaserJock> well, tbh, he hasn't really looked then
[08:03] <LaserJock> we've been over this several times
[08:03] <pwnguin> heh
[08:03] <LaserJock> we've given links to the Debian community
[08:03] <pwnguin> yea, there's about ten dead specs ;)
[08:07] <LaserJock> pwnguin: yeah, it's patches.ubuntu.com
[08:07] <LaserJock> it's just down at the moment
[08:07] <LaserJock> which might be why PTS isn't showing them
[08:09] <pwnguin> heh
[08:09] <pwnguin> funnay
[08:09] <pwnguin> for some reason
[08:09] <pwnguin> the fetchmail package gets its own maint
[08:10] <pwnguin> through ubnubtu
[08:28] <sacater> ScottK: firestarters working fine :D
[08:28] <ScottK> Cool
[08:32] <\sh> re
[09:33] <davromaniak> slomo_, are you here ?
[09:45] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[09:55] <DarkSun88> Are opened the archives of Gutsy?
[09:58] <LaserJock> DarkSun88: I think the archives exist but I don't think it's ready for uploading yet
[09:58] <DarkSun88> LaserJock: Ok, thank you. :)
[10:15] <damko> hi all
[10:19] <blueyed> Hi. I'd like to build a .deb for kopete (with a patch), but do not want to debuild the whole kdenetwork meta package.
[10:19] <blueyed> How's that done?
[10:24] <ScottK> blueyed: Just build the whole package.  It doesn't take THAT long to build.
[10:51] <ajmitch> morning