[01:14] <sharms> should I file a bug report?  When girlfriend reboots computer during upgrade from feisty -> edgy then computer = fubar
[01:14] <sharms> err rather edgy -> feisty
[01:28] <Fujitsu> !doesn't work | sharms 
[01:28] <ubotu> sharms: Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
[01:28] <sharms> Fujitsu: no no I used "fubar"
[01:29] <Fujitsu> !fubar
[01:29] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fubar - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:29] <Fujitsu> Damn.
[01:29] <sharms> :) 
[03:32] <Paul^> hi
[04:43] <thepumpkin1979_> hi. what is the *.h file to search packages like synaptic?
[04:44] <thepumpkin1979_> which header could i use to download packages?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> thepumpkin1979_: #ubuntu for support, see the /topic
[04:45] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: that really isn't a support question
[04:45] <Burgundavia> thepumpkin1979_: honestly, I would try the devel-discuss mailing list
[04:45] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: true.  didnt think anyone was here
[04:45] <thepumpkin1979_> this is ubuntu-devel... is not for developers?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> i presume you'd have to look in the synaptic source for it
[04:45] <Hobbsee> or the apt source
[04:45] <thepumpkin1979_> I see, sorry.
[04:46] <Burgundavia> thepumpkin1979_: it si really quiet, as the main devs are away, due to just having a release and needing a break
[04:46] <thepumpkin1979_> Hobbsee: i want to query ubuntu repositories to download some dependencies.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> and it's a sunday
[04:47] <Burgundavia> that too
[04:47] <thepumpkin1979_> I understand:)
[04:47] <thepumpkin1979_> Here, is 10:47 AM Saturday:)
[04:47] <Burgundavia> what language are you writing this in
[04:47] <Burgundavia> ?
[04:47] <thepumpkin1979_> *PM
[04:47] <thepumpkin1979_> I'm using C#+Mono.
[04:47] <Hobbsee> thepumpkin1979_: hi from sydney, you must be in WA
[04:47] <thepumpkin1979_> Hobbsee: hi from Venezuela.
[04:48] <StevenK> Hobbsee: *Saturday*
[04:48] <Hobbsee> ah, missed it
[04:48] <StevenK> Heh
[04:48] <grayman> wow, some noise here
[04:48] <thepumpkin1979_> Well... let me understand: this is the right place to ask but here are not developers right now?
[04:48] <thepumpkin1979_> :)
[04:49] <grayman> well
[04:49] <grayman> not -main- devs
[04:49] <StevenK> No, it isn't the right place to ask, this channel is about the development of Ubuntu.
[04:49] <grayman> after release vacation
[04:49] <thepumpkin1979_> :P
[04:50] <thepumpkin1979_> ok. no more question... mmm... just one more: which channel is ok to ask?
[04:50] <thepumpkin1979_> :P
[04:51] <Hobbsee> ubuntu-devel-discuss ML - see lists.ubuntu.com
[04:51] <Hobbsee> i think
[04:52] <thepumpkin1979_> thanks Hobbsee.
[04:52] <thepumpkin1979_> Enjoy your vacations and Congratulations for Feisty. Is amazing:P
[04:53] <Hobbsee> i've had a thought for command-not-found
[04:53] <Hobbsee> why does it only say "you can use sudo apt get install foo" to install it - why not say "do you want to install the package foo, which provides this functionality?" and if the user answers y or something, call apt to do it
[04:54] <Hobbsee> (if they have sudo access)
[04:54] <grayman> eh
[04:54] <grayman> only if you got a way to disable that
[04:54] <grayman> it might get annoying
[04:54] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: I like it just fine right now
[04:55] <Burgundavia> it is not disruptive
[04:55] <grayman> yeah
[04:55] <thepumpkin1979_> well Hobbsee, you are right, i can do that but i want to know how query repositories using C:P
[04:55] <thepumpkin1979_> Thanks:)
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: true that
[04:56] <StevenK> thepumpkin1979_: Install libapt-pkg-dev, look in there, and please stop asking.,
[04:56] <Hobbsee> grayman: oh of course.  it's just done half the work already, i'm surprised it doesnt prompt
[04:57] <thepumpkin1979_> StevenK: :|
[04:57] <grayman> well, it's not a surprise. It can cause a lot of errors
[04:57] <grayman> from user side
[04:58] <grayman> so yes, i prefer it the way it is now
[04:59] <Hobbsee> true
[05:16] <`23meg> Hobbsee, any feedback on the "Contributing to Gutsy" guide in the forum?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> `23meg: that'd require me looking, adn i've seen enough forum crack for today
[05:17] <Hobbsee> `23meg: but, Fujitsu made an excellent post on one of the other threads :)
[05:18] <`23meg> here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=411868
[05:18] <Hobbsee> looking now
[05:19] <`23meg> i'll search for that post
[05:19] <Hobbsee> `23meg: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=413733 sums it up quite well :)
[05:19] <`23meg> yes, read that one
[05:21] <Hobbsee> `23meg: what concerns me with that spec writing guide is that there's a) no mention that anyone can implement a spec, not just the "ubuntu devs" and b) that the spec process is a wand waving excercise, with the inference of "if i've gone to all the trouble of filing a spec in the right way, then it should be implemented.  because it hasnt for this release, or at all, OMG UBUNTU SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleventyone!!!
[05:22] <`23meg>  Hobbsee, that's been on my mind, rest assured
[05:22] <Hobbsee> `23meg: upstream version freeze means bugfixes - when it hits major freezes, beta freezes and such, only critical bugs will be fixed
[05:22] <`23meg> we'll post a separate guide on writing specs, probably on monday when it gets finished
[05:22] <`23meg> and that will include both your points clearly
[05:23] <Hobbsee> `23meg: i'd also point out hte url for searching for bugs by a specific source package - and smacking them with the cluebat over using the search.  there's no need to file 60 dupes of the same thing.
[05:23] <Hobbsee> it's often easier to search if you know the source package
[05:24] <Hobbsee> `23meg: it looks good - very good
[05:24] <`23meg> thank you
[05:25] <Hobbsee> wouldnt mind yoinking some of it and sticking it on the wiki :P
[05:25] <`23meg> that would be good
[05:25] <jml> Hobbsee: could Launchpad get better at directing people to the right package?
[05:25] <`23meg> i'm replacing UVS with beta freeze 
[05:25] <`23meg> *UVF
[05:26] <Hobbsee> `23meg: make sure you have the schedule link in there - then get people to look at what each of the freezes are on teh wiki
[05:26] <Hobbsee> jml: i wish.  probably.  file  a wishlist bug on malone
[05:26] <Hobbsee> well doesnt need to be wishlist.  just a bug on malone
[05:26] <`23meg> hmm, ok
[05:27] <jml> Hobbsee: right. I was going to suggest that :)
[05:27] <Hobbsee> seeing as UVF is important too
[05:28] <`23meg> i have the schedule link; will add freezes
[05:42] <Burgundavia> `23meg: one key thing is that features are basically already decided by the end of the UDS
[05:45] <`23meg> is this not clear? let me see; I thought it would be obvious
[05:46] <ajmitch> and keep in mind that many specs just can't be discussed at UDS
[05:47] <Burgundavia> `23meg: it was a general comment, not based on what the forums says
[05:47] <`23meg> ajmitch, i'll emphasize that in the spec guide i'll post soon
[05:47] <Burgundavia> basically, I see a lot of people suggesting ideas really late in the feature cycle
[05:48] <`23meg> Burgundavia, the forum ambassadors team is trying to amend exactly that
[05:48] <`23meg> we're trying to get people to submit specs until UDS, and helping them do so
[06:56] <Hobbsee> `23meg: back
[06:57] <Hobbsee> morning fabbione!
[06:57] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[06:57] <Hobbsee> :)
[07:30] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I've made some edits to the guide
[08:10] <Omar> hello
[08:11] <Omar> can we can an official copy of ubuntu for " lebanese faculty of engineering "
[08:11] <Burgundavia> hello Omar
[08:11] <Burgundavia> you can download an official copy
[08:11] <Burgundavia> see http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu
[08:12] <Burgundavia> and this really isn't support, so if you need more help, please use #ubuntu
[08:12] <Omar> i'm now downloading it from universite de Nante
[08:12] <Omar> i joined that channel but i can't send to channel !
[08:20] <Hobbsee> `23meg: looking
[08:21] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: linky?
[08:21] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=411868
[08:22] <Hobbsee> still doesnt say about that hte forums people can implement them, etc
[08:25] <Burgundavia> `23meg: link to the ubuntu specific spec page at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[08:26] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I'll backport that statement from the "feasibility guide" in a day or two :)
[08:26] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:27] <sharms> Does anyone know if there has been an effort to port over fedora's system-config-display applet to ubuntu?
[08:28] <Burgundavia> sharms: it needs to be rewritten for xrandr1.2
[08:28] <Burgundavia> I belive the fedora people are doing that
[08:28] <Burgundavia> however, I did play with it in the Hoary cycle
[08:28] <sharms> I was thinking of either doing it or putting a bounty on it
[08:28] <`23meg> Burgundavia, done, thanks 
[08:29] <Burgundavia> sharms: there is a gnome soc about a config tool and I belive fedora is working on rewriting it
[08:29] <Fujitsu> randr 1.2 should make that sort of thing much, much easier.
[08:30] <sharms> any idea if it would make it into gutsy?  One goal I need to remedy is co-workers telling me Ubuntu doesn't support dual head configuration
[08:31] <Burgundavia> http://code.google.com/soc/gnome/appinfo.html?csaid=F9CE6F874146B221
[09:03] <sharms> Burgundavia: thanks for the information
[09:03] <Burgundavia> sharms: no worries
[09:49] <Draconicus> brb
[12:26] <jk-> hi
[12:29] <ion_> Hi
[01:34] <shawarma> Is the automatic apport retracer thingie running these days?
[01:45] <Kmos> shawarma: you must ask pitti
[01:45] <Kmos> tomorrow :)
[01:46] <shawarma> It appears so. :-/
[02:02] <ogra> hrm ... nfsroot on nfs4 seems not to be such a good idea :/
[02:03] <jk-> full of connection-oriented goodness
[02:03] <ogra> well, it needs user accounts ... which i dont have in initramfs ...
[02:09] <delire> having read several forums this fine sunday morning it seems like the three primary problems this release are screen resolution issues with proprietary ATI drivers (or not working at all but working in 6.10), network-manager playing up with realtek cards and showstopper drive boot mapping in grub. 
[02:09] <Mithrandir> ogra: nfsroot on nfs4 works just fine for other people.
[02:09] <mjr> I should really get around to reporting my (lesser) problems...
[02:10] <delire> otherwise it seems the hit rate is quite high compared to last release. seems like Envy and Automatix (unfortunately) are saving the day quite often.
[02:10] <ogra> Mithrandir, how ? klibc has no nfs4 support at all yet ... i'm trying with util-linux's mount here wich needs idmapd and something to map against
[02:10] <ogra> it mounts apparently, but only as nobody
[02:11] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes, and that should be enough to get you started.
[02:11] <ogra> which then gets all the tmpfs mounts in ltsp wrong ...
[02:11] <bhale> delire: pontificating is probably best for the forums and osnews. if someone has bugs they would be better served following up on launchpad
[02:12] <Mithrandir> sounds like an LTSP bug, then, since it works fine for other people.
[02:13] <ogra> well / is mounted by nobody ... and apparently all actions on the fs are executed as nobody as well ...
[02:14] <ogra> my prob is that he idmapd i can run in initramfs isnt able to map against anything ...
[02:14] <ogra> apart from that i havent found any hints that anybody ever implemented nfsroot with nfs4
[02:15] <Mithrandir> I know people who have.
[02:15] <ogra> i know there are plans t add support for it to nfsmount of klibc ... 
[02:15] <ogra> but thats still more an idea than anything else 
[02:16] <ogra> Mithrandir, do you know any docs for the initramfs side ?
[02:16] <delire> bhale: good morning. the bugs are flowing.
[02:18] <bhale> delire: great, thansk
[02:18] <bhale> not much more frustrating than "bugs" reported on forums
[02:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: I don't think he ever documented what he did, BICBW.
[02:19] <ogra> well, google agrees :)
[02:20] <ogra> he probably used kerberos ... which i dont want ....
[02:22] <delire> i wonder whether for future releases it might be sane to write an application that greps lspci output looking for what are known to be cards that require manual driver installation (binary only drivers available) and couple it with devices that were known not to work OOTB and dynamically generate a HTML document of links to HOWTOs and fix trajectories for the user. this would then be put on their desktop post install.
[02:24] <tepsipakki> delire: every card should work with vesa, and if it doesn't then it's a bug (like 89853)
[02:25] <tepsipakki> we already have those mappings (discover-data)
[02:25] <tepsipakki> and vesa is used as a fallback
[02:26] <delire> tepsipakki: agreed, toward an unbreakable X, but this doesn't assist people getting up and running with problem wireless cards or issues with the piix driver, etc.
[02:26] <delire> new users simply don't have a clue where to start, or what's really wrong. some handholding in the form of a fix path could be good.
[02:26] <delire> s/path/guide
[02:27] <delire> just a thought anyway.
[02:30] <tepsipakki> oh, I thought you were talking about display cards
[02:31] <jk-> would be good to have the database being distro-independent
[02:31] <jk-> to save having five+ copies of the same thing..
[02:31] <delire> yes, good thought. 
[02:32] <jk-> and the possibility to provide more specific instructions for a distro, if they exist..
[02:32] <delire> even work with leenooks.com
[02:32] <ion_> restricted-manager already shows what restricted drivers support the hardware the user has.
[02:32] <delire> yes this is a good start, but people don't even know that restricted driver manager is actually there!
[02:32] <tepsipakki> discover is from debian
[02:33] <tepsipakki> so all the derivates have it
[02:33] <delire> i must have pointed 50 people to restricted-manager in #ubuntu the last day or so.
[02:33] <delire> (half of them had already broken things by following old documentation..)
[02:35] <delire> i guess the point is to give them a document "congratulations you've just installed ubuntu. we notice you've got these devices on your machine, known to be problematic in Linux. are they working properly? if not here's what you can do to get them up and running.." etc
[02:35] <jk-> and a 'send an email to the manufacturer of this device' button :D
[02:35] <delire> hehe nice.
[03:29] <delire> i think a 'Hardware Helper' could be a good addition to Ubuntu, especially for those users who've just installed Ubuntu on a machine with hardware only supported by binary drivers, don't know what a 'restricted driver' is, where to find restricted-manager or have any clue as to why their hardware doesn't work. 
[03:29] <delire> so, where would i write up such a project if i were interested in starting it/developing it for a future release?
[03:34] <Hobbsee> delire: file a spec?
[03:34] <Hobbsee> on launchpad
[03:34] <Hobbsee> not sure of the exact url
[03:36] <pochu> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+addspec
[03:36] <pochu> delire: ^
[03:36] <Mithrandir> hiya Sarah
[03:36] <delire> Hobbsee: pochu cheers
[03:36] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir :)
[03:44] <ogra> hmm, seems getpwnam doesnt work in initramfs  ... i wonder why ...
[03:45] <Treenaks> ogra: </sarcasm>
[03:46] <ogra> Treenaks, ??
[03:46] <Treenaks> ogra: well. initramfs = always root, right?
[03:46] <Treenaks> (and there's no /etc/passwd..)
[03:46] <ogra> well, still, if i add /etc/passwd and friends libc should provide it
[03:46] <Treenaks> (is there?)
[03:47] <ogra> no, but i just added one for testing ... 
[03:47] <Mithrandir> ogra: you're probably missing the nss modules.
[03:47] <ion_> Yeah, and/or nsswitch.conf
[05:17] <sivang> hi all
[05:17] <Hobbsee> sivang!!!
[05:18] <Hobbsee> sivang: where have you *been*?
[05:18] <sivang> yeah, yeah , it's not over *yet* !
[05:18] <Hobbsee> hm?
[05:19] <sivang> Hobbsee: mostly been caught up with bills paying job, some personal issues etc ;)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> sivang: ahhh...
[05:19] <sivang> Hobbsee: I don't know why I said the first sentence - just felt nice to say it :-p
[05:19] <Hobbsee> ahh ;)
[05:21] <AaronMT> So which is the best IDE for C/C++ under Ubuntu?
[05:21] <Hobbsee> vi.  kate.  maybe emacs
[05:22] <Hobbsee> kdevelop's nice
[05:22] <Hobbsee> AaronMT: and #ubuntu for support, btw
[05:23] <AaronMT> Might be a longshot getting VS2005 under wine
[05:23] <Hobbsee> quite likely.  the question is why you would
[05:23] <Hobbsee> you can just use g++ for compiling
[05:51] <cjwatson_> Riddell: bug 108969 is the second package other than ubiquity that's had a KDE frontend direct all its bug reports to ubiquity. I'm getting fed up with this. Can I be sure it won't happen again?
[05:51] <ubotu> Malone bug 108969 in update-manager "update-manager's KDE frontend directs bug reports to ubiquity" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108969
[06:03] <ogra> hmm, i really dont get why our nfs server defaults to rsize and wsize values of 131072 
[06:07] <Treenaks> 128k?
[06:08] <ogra> yep
[06:26] <danohuiginn> ogra: for bug 85452 is it enough to just fix the docs? Or should the missing options be added to the program?
[06:26] <ubotu> Malone bug 85452 in hwdb-client "hwdb-send man page arguments are not valid" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85452
[06:28] <ogra> either is fine
[06:29] <danohuiginn> ogra: OK,thanks. I'll fix the manpages in that case
[06:30] <ogra> hwdb-send should probably just move out of /usr7bin so it doesnt need a manpage
[06:30] <ogra> */usr/bin
[06:32] <danohuiginn> hmmm....in that case, I'd best leave it to somebody who knows the package
[07:21] <Artemis3> Sorry if i'm bothering, proposed Edgy package: update-manager 0.45.3 doesn't show the update to 7.04 button anymore, is this intentional? downgrading to 0.45.2 still shows the button.
[07:29] <Lutin> Mithrandir: can you reject the allegrogl package from NEW ? it's an error, it was an upload to REVU
[07:34] <Riddell> cjwatson: SRU requested.  it won't happen again if only because apport will be used in future.  sorry about that
[07:41] <triceratops> Any hint how files in /lib/modules/2.6.20-15-lowlatency/volatile/ are created (esp. fglrx.ko). Due to dpkg-query it seems they don't belong to a package.
[08:57] <desrt> is there meal allowance for UDS seville?
[09:20] <ph1zzle> hey guys
[09:20] <ph1zzle> ... n gals
[09:20] <ph1zzle> I have a non ubuntu development style question but I still think this room may be the best place to ask...
[09:21] <grayman> Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu)
[09:22] <ph1zzle> I am trying to compile some software and it complains about two libs I have installed being too low a version, the libs (libofa from musicip and libmusicbrainz from musicbrainz) I compiled myself and I know are the newest versions and this problem seems to occur on both dapper and feisty, is there a package that I don't have installed or something I may be doing wrong that would cause this?
[09:24] <ph1zzle> so I am basically pleading for your help
[09:25] <grayman> wel hm, not sure. Try the motu channel
[09:26] <ph1zzle> motu?
[09:26] <desrt> masters of the universe
[09:26] <shawarma> ph1zzle: #ubuntu-motu
[09:26] <ph1zzle> ok, thank you
[09:29] <ph1zzle> ;)
[09:31] <geser> MOTUs also care for multiverse
[09:32] <ph1zzle> lol, alright
[10:21] <pygi> siretart: you around? I want some instructions :)
[10:34] <siretart> pygi: hi
[10:34] <siretart> pygi: what's up?
[10:34] <pygi> siretart: you free or shall we talk later? :)
[10:35] <siretart> pygi: let's try now
[10:37] <ajmitch> morning
[10:38] <pygi> siretart: kk, pm
[10:38] <pygi> ajmitch: morning
[10:56] <AaronMT> So which is the best IDE for C/C++ under Ubuntu?
[10:58] <cjwatson_> Riddell: thanks
[10:59] <pygi> AaronMT: please #ubuntu
[11:54] <grayman> heh
[11:54] <grayman> bug 109064 should be confirmed i think
[11:54] <ubotu> Malone bug 109064 in ubuntu-meta "Boot-up option 'Start or install Ubuntu' scares new users" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109064