[12:45] <TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
[12:45] <ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
[12:46] <Lutin> hi TheMuso 
[12:46] <TheMuso> Hey Lutin.
[12:46] <Lutin> TheMuso: back online eventually ? :)
[12:47] <TheMuso> Lutin: Indeed.
[12:49] <sharms> what do you guys think: http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=95
[12:49] <sharms> I promise, nothing about enhancedbash there
[12:50] <ajmitch> you have to find a couple of 'very experienced MOTUs'
[12:50] <sharms> right, I think we have that covered
[12:50] <ajmitch> how often do you propose these sessions be run?
[12:51] <sharms> once a week, then I assume the novices will gain experience and the project will lose momentum and die, hopefully giving us ~5 new people who can help
[12:51] <ajmitch> it may work, if time isn't wasted on lots of simple questions
[12:51] <ajmitch> ie, people must expect to do some research beforehand
[12:51] <ajmitch> 5-10 packages in an hour is optimistic
[12:52] <sharms> I am just talking about things like .desktop fixes etc
[12:52] <pochu> hi TheMuso
[12:52] <sharms> and that you would have 5-10 people working on each package individually
[12:52] <Demon012> sharms: just at a glance are you proposing MOTU Classes?
[12:52] <TheMuso> Hey pochu
[12:52] <ajmitch> whoever is leading the session will need to keep track of who is doing what & where they're at
[12:52] <sharms> A little different because it is agenda driven as in getting packages actually fixed
[12:52] <Simon80> sharms: it's* ad sponsored drinking... I'm a grammar whore
[12:52] <sharms> yeah i added that in last week when I was on digg, hastily
[12:53] <ajmitch> even .desktop fixes can take a bit of time for someone who's new, and needs some explanation
[12:53] <sharms> I think slomo was able to explain it to me in under an hour
[12:53] <sharms> provided they read any docs before hand I think it can be done
[12:54] <ajmitch> sharms: and you propose that someone explain this & hold the hands of 5-10 people within an hour
[12:54] <ajmitch> each package being different
[12:54] <pochu> slomo: I've packaged liferea 1.2.12, so if you haven't done it yet, feel free to upload it :)
[12:54] <pochu> slomo: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/
[12:54] <ajmitch> an hour is really quite short :)
[12:54] <sharms> well I am hoping that most of the time the people are trying really hard to make it happen, so that they wont all just be on IRC the whole time
[12:55] <sharms> so the motu experts time may be taken up, but by different people as they run into different issues
[12:55] <ajmitch> people will need to know the basics of building a source package, a binary package, testing, creating .desktop files, etc
[12:56] <sharms> yeah I just know people learn quicker by doing if they are like me, just a way to get feet wet etc
[12:56] <sharms> hopefully they have already attended the open week sessions etc, maybe read some transcripts of prior motu-school sessions
[12:56] <sharms> but just have trouble piecing it all together
[12:57] <sharms> its a risk, but hopefully the next week, they dont ask those same questions
[12:58] <ajmitch> how long do you think this could be sustained?
[12:59] <sharms> well I am a realist a times, and I fully expect for the idea to lose momentum after a month and a half or so
[12:59] <ajmitch> motu school had a lot of enthusiasm as well
[12:59] <sharms> and that would only take 6 hours of total expert MOTU time
[12:59] <ajmitch> but not many people willing to commit to a time & teach
[01:00] <sharms> thats why I buy them beer
[01:00] <ajmitch> well that's fine, I hardly fit into the appropriate category :)
[01:01] <sharms> I just know what I would like to see, for myself, and think that there are a lot of untapped resources of people who are just overwhelmed
[01:01] <sharms> if the people in #ubuntu can sit on IRC for 6 hours a day and not contribute, and we can turn a few into contributors, that could be a lot of potential improvements
[01:05] <pochu> have a nice day!
[01:06] <LaserJock> sharms: I think your proposal can be basically summed up as "get MOTU School going and do interesting sessions"
[01:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock!!!!1
[01:07] <ajmitch> hi
[01:07] <LaserJock> hola andrew
[01:07] <KalleDK> Hey LaserJock nice session
[01:07] <LaserJock> thanks
[01:07] <sharms> yeah but I am really looking for work-based sessions
[01:07] <sharms> where as they get real experience
[01:08] <LaserJock> yep
[01:08] <LaserJock> I agree
[01:08] <LaserJock> we need a mixture of "Packaging 101" sessions for overview
[01:08] <LaserJock> and working sessions
[01:08] <LaserJock> where we really get something useful done
[01:08] <ajmitch> sharms: recruit expert MOTUs like laserjock
[01:08] <sharms> thats kind of one of the people I had in mind :)
[01:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I was thinking of real experts ;-)
[01:09] <sharms> anyone who is a potential mentor should be qualified enough
[01:10] <ajmitch> that's me out
[01:10] <sharms> basically anyone other than nixternal
[01:10] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:10] <LaserJock> he's a shady fellow ;-)
[01:10] <sharms> ha
[01:10] <LaserJock> he threatened to ice me last night
[01:10] <LaserJock> or have his gumbahs doe it
[01:10] <LaserJock> *do
[01:10] <ajmitch> hah
[01:11] <ajmitch> I'm sure he's harmless
[01:11] <sharms> I have played Rich (nixternal) in that TC-Elite combat game, he has no aim
[01:20] <KalleDK> Hey LaserJock... I would like to try to make some packing... As I can see hellanzb is v0.10 but on their main its 0.13.. where would i start to get this updated :)
[01:21] <TheMuso> KalleDK: Does Debian have the newer version yet?
[01:21] <KalleDK> Dunno
[01:21] <TheMuso> Wouldn't hurt to check.
[01:21] <KalleDK> Where :)
[01:22] <TheMuso> packages.debian.org for a start
[01:22] <KalleDK> Nope their at 0.10 also
[01:23] <TheMuso> Ok. I would check bugs for that package at bugs.debian.org to see whether someone has requested a new version.
[01:23] <KalleDK> I get something there
[01:24] <KalleDK> #418580: New version available
[01:24] <KalleDK> Package: hellanzb (0.12; fixed: hellanzb 0.13-1); Reported by: Maik Zumstrull <Maik.Zumstrull@gmx.de>
[01:24] <KalleDK> Done: Adam Ccile (Le_Vert) <gandalf@le-vert.net>; Will be archived in 16 days.
[01:25] <TheMuso> debian bug 418580
[01:25] <ubotu> Debian bug 418580 in hellanzb "New version available" [Normal,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/418580
[01:26] <TheMuso> KalleDK: There is a chance that packages.debian.org is out of date. By the looks of that report, its already in Debian, which means that it will be updated in the gutsy cycle.
[01:27] <KalleDK> Which means I shouldn't touch it
[01:27] <TheMuso> there is no need to, no.
[01:27] <TheMuso> I'll check for sure when I have access to my sid chroot again.
[01:27] <KalleDK> Hm dammit :P
[01:28] <Fujitsu> packages.qa.debian.org is your friend.
[01:28] <ajmitch>   hellanzb |     0.13-1 | http://apt-proxy sid/main Sources
[01:28] <ajmitch> or apt-cache madison
[01:28] <Fujitsu> That works too.
[01:32] <LaserJock> ajmitch: show off ;-)
[01:32] <ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
[01:33] <LaserJock> your fancy madison usage
[01:34] <ajmitch> hah
[01:34] <KalleDK> Well can you find a tiny winy small thing I can package so I can test/learn/evolve???
[01:34] <ajmitch> you mean something that's been built into apt for ages?
[01:35] <KalleDK> Dont know.. just want to learn howto :)
[01:35] <Demon012> KalleDK: 
[01:35] <Demon012> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
[01:35] <Demon012> that seems to be the easiest one I have found to start off with so far
[01:36] <Demon012> this one is also useful > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics
[01:36] <KalleDK> Thx Demon012
[01:37] <Demon012> actually look at the first bit of the 2nd one first so you know what to install to start off with
[01:37] <Demon012> then go back and do the first 1
[01:37] <shawarma> Good thing I've got that nipple thing on my thinkpad. It makes for a soft landing.
[01:37] <enyc> shawarma: hrrm wonder if your keyboard makes asdfghjkl ar aoeuidhtns as your nose pressess buttons in a line ;-)
[01:38] <KalleDK> shawarma... Got a tutorial CHECK - Got Alex Gaudino feat Crystal Waters Destination Calabria CHECK - Got 10 RedBull CHECK
[01:38] <shawarma> enyc: No, the nipple prevents that too. It has many uses.
[01:38] <Demon012> heh that's what they term as qwerty'ing
[01:38] <enyc> Demon012: bit I dont have qwerty...
[01:38] <shawarma> I'm off for tonigt. Goodnight, guys!
[01:38] <shawarma> tonight, even.
[01:38] <enyc> Demon012: but I am in bed and have a clickykeyboard next to pillow ;-)
[01:38] <Demon012> heh azerty? =)
[01:39] <enyc> Demon012: no ;-) ',.pyfgcrl/= aoeuidhtns-\ qjkxbmwvz
[01:39] <Demon012> lol kk
[01:39] <shawarma> abcde ftw!
[01:39] <shawarma> I have a keyboard where the keys are in alphabetical order. Good fun.
[01:39] <enyc> but I can deal with qwertyuiop asdfghjkl zxcvbnm too
[01:40] <shawarma> Fun fact: The X is still in the same place.
[01:40] <shawarma> go figure.
[01:40] <enyc> hrrm my A and M are in qwerty places
[01:44] <LaserJock> darn it, I need to find a Sun keyboard
[01:45] <KalleDK> Got a G11 keyboard :P
[01:48] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why'd you get a SPARC?
[01:48] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: cause it was free
[01:49] <LaserJock> I just need a keyboard so I can get it set u p
[01:49] <LaserJock> *up
[01:50] <jdong> Tasks for the Sun owner..... (1) Use xmodmap to swap ctrl and capslock.....
[01:55] <LaserJock> hmm, well I can get one on ebay for ~ $20
[02:01] <sharms> LaserJock: I am out of town til friday, but I might have one in my storage facility
[02:02] <sharms> I think I definitely have a sparc video out -> crt thing
[02:06] <LaserJock> sharms: I'm not sure I need one
[02:06] <LaserJock> sharms: I *think* it's got a regular VGA output
[02:06] <sharms> ah I had the little lunchbox size sparcs
[02:06] <LaserJock> in addittion to the sparc video out