[01:25] <shawarma> sort of
[01:25] <shawarma> In the sense that I'm sort of here, and I'm sort of one of the question folks. :-)
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> Short answer - I'll package KompoZer v0.8 once the dev sends me a tarball.  If we get lucky the trademark holder will let it be called Nvu again.
[01:26] <shawarma> tonyyarusso: Cool!
[01:27] <tonyyarusso> shawarma: For now there's a version 0.7.7 available as a tarball install from kompozer.net, and I have an i386 .deb only laying around.
[01:27] <shawarma> tonyyarusso: You can also just package a VCS snapshot.
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[01:28] <shawarma> tonyyarusso: That way you don't have to wait for them to do a release.
[01:29] <tonyyarusso> heh, he needs me poking him for the release anyway
[01:30] <tonyyarusso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New may have info
[03:09] <xtknight> bug 109804
[03:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 109804 in Ubuntu "Firefox can't save image from interfacelift.com" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109804
[05:38] <jmg> #107776
[05:38] <jmg> bug 107776
[05:38] <ubotu> Malone bug 107776 in samba "during edgy->feisty update installation of samba_3.0.24-2ubuntu1 made the upgrade fail" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107776
[05:44] <Hobbsee> jmg: it's a bug.  and?
[05:44] <jmg> im trying to fix it
[05:45] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:45] <Hobbsee> it looks to be a dupe of the other
[05:45] <jmg> yeah
[05:48] <jmg> tis a dupe, but no patch
[05:51] <jdong_> BenC: why does commit http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-feisty.git;a=commit;h=c25cfc3ad3cb8cac3474febfe66cff8ee0bfba18
[05:51] <jdong_> BenC: why does that commit revert TIFM from 0.8 to 0.7?
[05:51] <jdong_> I suppose that is an accident?
[06:12] <psusi> imbrandon: ping
[06:30] <leleobhz> someone uses cowbuilder here?
[06:31] <leleobhz> or cowbuilder or pbuilder
[06:37] <fabbione> morning
[06:49] <sonictwin> hi
[06:50] <sonictwin> can anyone lookat this error?
[06:50] <sonictwin> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/17541/plain/
[06:50] <sonictwin> my brother restarted the comp while upgrading to feisty
[06:50] <harrisony> !support
[06:50] <ubotu> support is The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[06:51] <harrisony> try in there
[06:51] <sonictwin> k
[07:38] <Mithrandir> hm, tzdata seems to make debootstrap unhappy
[07:44] <yondie> hello guys: is it possible to include https proxy inside synaptic ?
[07:47] <harrisony> yondie: yep under preferences
[07:48] <yondie> harrisony: dat`s the global setting rite?
[07:52] <harrisony> yondie: thereare the global gnome/kde settings but i dont know if they go through that
[07:53] <dholbach> good morning
[07:54] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
[07:54] <dholbach> heya Hobbsee
[07:54] <Hobbsee> (in greeting)
[07:55] <Mithrandir> lovely morning, Sarah. :-P
[07:55] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: indeed!  without the assignments :P
[07:56] <Mithrandir> yay. :-)
[07:56] <ion_> IRC::People.find_by_channel('#ubuntu-devel').each {|p| greet p }
[07:56] <Hobbsee> as in, it woudl be a lovely morning without the assignments.  unfortunately, they havent magically disappeared :(
[07:57] <Mithrandir> oh
[07:57] <dholbach> hi ion_
[07:58] <ion_> Whats up?
[07:58] <Mithrandir> yesterday, I participated in some user testing of new electronic tax forms here in .no.  Some of the forms were just magic forms which did themselves with all the right numbers.  Unfortunately, the developers said that was only in the mockup.
[07:58] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: any good at electronics?  :P
[07:58] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha, nice
[07:58] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I have about half a semester of it, but it's been a couple of years since last I really did anything with it.
[07:59] <Hobbsee> damn
[08:00] <Mithrandir> but what is it you're looking at?
[08:00] <Hobbsee> steady state sinosoidal analysis, yada yada yada....
[08:01] <Hobbsee> NFI - i'm soon reverting to the "if you cant dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit"
[08:07] <dholbach> Mithrandir: can you tell me where I can find the list of packages that we actively removed from Ubuntu?
[08:09] <Mithrandir> dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
[08:09] <dholbach> thanks a lot
[08:13] <ajmitch> hi dholbach, Mithrandir 
[08:14] <dholbach> hey Andrew
[08:19] <kagou> morning
[08:21] <dholbach> hey pitti
[08:22] <ion_> Hi
[08:36] <pitti> Good morning
[08:36] <kagou> hey pitti 
[08:41] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'll sort out debootstrap in a bit if you haven't already
[08:41] <Hobbsee> morning pitti 
[08:41] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I haven't no.
[08:42] <cjwatson> what's breaking?
[08:42] <cjwatson> and could you let debootstrap through unapproved so that it's easier to test? :)
[08:43] <Mithrandir> this is actually on feisty, with gutsy being a copy of feisty.
[08:43] <Mithrandir> and yeah, I think I'll let some bits through
[08:43] <Mithrandir> (waiting for feedback from doko about some java stuff before opening for general development)
[08:44] <dholbach> pitti: can you give mvo the Bug.add_comment() bits you use in the retrace service? (bug 109213)
[08:44] <ubotu> Malone bug 109213 in bughelper "recent LP rollout broke Bug.add_comment()" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109213
[08:46] <pitti> dholbach: too bad, codebrowse seems to be down :/
[08:46] <pitti> dholbach: I'll give him an URL once he's online
[09:06] <fabbione> does anybody remember if we use gzip -9 or just gzip when compressing data.tar.gz for a deb package?
[09:08] <mdke> can someone tell me what is wrong with this command?
[09:08] <mdke>  	sed -i ../build/ubuntu/$y/C/*.html -e "s#ghelp:office#\.\./\.\./office/C/#g"
[09:08] <Hobbsee> fabbione: gzip -9 i would have thought.  that's what's in the packaging guide, last i knew
[09:08] <mdke> I get the error:
[09:08] <mdke> sed: -e expression #1, char 37: unterminated `s' command
[09:08] <mdke> sed: -e expression #1, char 98: unknown option to `s'
[09:08] <Hobbsee> although maybe for a deb it's different
[09:10] <mdke> argh, I see the problem
[09:11] <StevenK> mdke: $$y ?
[09:11] <StevenK> The ^I is making me think it's in make.
[09:12] <mdke> StevenK: no, it was a different line in the script that wasn't working, not that one. I forgot to escape something...
[09:12] <mdke> ah, everything working now, phew
[09:16] <\sh> moins
[09:20] <saispo> hi
[09:20] <seb128> lu saispo
[09:22] <dholbach> hey seb128
[09:22] <seb128> hey dholbach
[09:30] <kwah> Hi all
[09:30] <kwah> tried #ubuntu-installer but it seems that everyone asleep
[09:30] <kwah> Where can I find an information about what "Install with driver update CD" variant of installation for?
[09:31] <seb128> kwah: hi
[09:31] <seb128> kwah: it might be a bit early for uk, you will likely get a reply if you wait
[09:31] <kwah> ok I'll wait then
[09:47] <hunger> Yahoo! gutsy is open:-)
[09:48] <seb128> hunger: what do you mean?
[09:49] <tepsipakki> doesn't seem very open to me :)
[09:50] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: mjg59 told me yesterday that airlied applied a patch to xorg-video-ati git that might fix bug 20283
[09:50] <ubotu> Malone bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[X700]  Really bad sync on HP NW8240" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/20283
[09:50] <Mithrandir> I accepted a couple of packages, but it's not yet open for general development, no.
[09:50] <Mithrandir> Soon
[09:51] <seb128> Mithrandir: what are the packages you accept now?
[09:51] <Mithrandir> seb128: base-files, debootstrap, devscripts.
[09:56] <seb128> Mithrandir: could be get gnome-pkg-tools synced? Most new GNOME packages from Debian Build-Depends on a version newer than the feisty one
[09:56] <seb128> s/be get/we get
[09:56] <seb128> would be nice to have it available before starting working on updating GNOME
[09:56] <cjwatson> mdke: BTW you don't need to escape "." in the replacement part of a sed s-expression
[09:56] <mdke> cjwatson: oh. Thanks
[09:56] <cjwatson> seb128: gnome-pkg-tools has no compiled code, does it?
[09:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: doko had an idea for a day of "toolchain-ish" syncs before opening up fully where such packages would be appropriate, yes.
[09:58] <seb128> cjwatson: no, it's a bunch of cdbs rules and documentation
[10:02] <cjwatson> seb128: I've just punted it through now then - won't harm anything
[10:02] <seb128> cjwatson: thank you
[10:14] <mdz> good morning
[10:15] <ajmitch> morning mdz 
[10:37] <tepsipakki> Treenaks: that's cool, waiting for .192 then ;)
[10:39] <Kim^J> Yo, Who's responsible for the non-working postgrelsql-8.2 package?
[10:43] <Kmos> Kim^J: in at arch ?
[10:43] <Kmos> *what
[10:43] <Kmos> you've reported the bug ?
[10:50] <cjwatson> debconf (developer): <-- FSET tzdata/Zones/UTC seen true
[10:50] <cjwatson> debconf (developer): --> 10 tzdata/Zones/UTC doesn't exist
[10:53] <pitti> cjwatson: is that from my tzdata gutsy upload from yesterday?
[10:53] <cjwatson> pitti: yes
[10:53] <cjwatson> I'm working on it now
[10:54] <pitti> cjwatson: I doubt that today's Debian upload fixes it; I took the patch from it
[10:55] <Kmos> pitti: the sudo message bug ? :-)
[10:55] <pitti> darn, I thought I tested it enough, it worked for upgrades and fresh installs
[10:55] <pitti> Kmos: hm?
[10:55] <pitti> Kim^J: details, please?
[10:55] <Kmos> ok
[10:55] <cjwatson> pitti: this is debootstrap
[10:56] <Kmos> bug 8556
[10:56] <ubotu> Malone bug 8556 in sudo "sudo password prompt could be clearer" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8556
[10:56] <cjwatson> pitti: problem is that debootstrap links /etc/localtime to /usr/share/zoneinfo/UTC and tzdata doesn't like it being UTC rather than Etc/UTC
[10:56] <cjwatson> pitti: so while I could change debootstrap, it seems to me that this could well affect upgrades too
[10:59] <pitti> argh, I see
[10:59] <cjwatson> there's still a debian/config diff from -3ubuntu2 to -4, so I'm looking at that
[10:59] <cjwatson> seems like it could also affect other top-level files in /usr/share/zoneinfo/
[11:04] <cjwatson> pitti: really I'd like to be able to tell whether a zone is defined by Link in the backward file
[11:04] <cjwatson> and if so, migrate to the current zone name
[11:05] <cjwatson> pitti: how about I report a Debian bug about this and change debootstrap so that we can move on
[11:05] <pitti> hm, the backwards file isn't shipped; we could do that of course
[11:05] <pitti> but OTOH they won't disappear anytime soon
[11:06] <cjwatson> right, it's not good enough for gutsy final but it's good enough for now
[11:06] <pitti> agreed
[11:23] <pitti> Kim^J: I am really interested in fixing postgresql bugs, but I need to know what's wrong first :)
[11:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: question, is MoM actually running? The website is back, but the HTML files are from March 7
[11:23] <Kmos> pitti: can you do something on bug 106753 ?
[11:23] <ubotu> Malone bug 106753 in ddclient "Version 3.7.1 is out, please update!" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106753
[11:23] <pitti> Kmos: I don't particularly care personally, it's an universe package and we will get new versions from Debian
[11:23] <Kmos> ok
[11:23] <pitti> Kmos: if you are interested in the package, feel invited to care for it :)
[11:23] <pitti> we are always embracing new developers
[11:23] <Kmos> how to do it ?
[11:24] <Kmos> Latest release:  3.7.0-3ubuntu1
[11:24] <Kmos> Uploaded By:  Luke Yelavich
[11:24] <Kmos> themuso do the latest one
[11:24] <pitti> Kmos: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good starting point
[11:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: I wasn't aware it was back.
[11:24] <Kmos> pitti: thx
[11:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, then my hug for you yesterday was not justified :-P
[11:25] <Mithrandir> heh
[11:25] <pochu> Kmos: if you have any question, #ubuntu-motu is your site :)
[11:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: you should hug the sysadmins for fixing the box. :-P
[11:25] <pitti> Kmos: i. e. you should get acquainted with the basic procedures and then ask the MOTU community for guidance
[11:29] <Kmos> pitti: ok, thx
[12:07] <Fujitsu> Can some archive admin please let k3d into {edgy,feisty}-proposed?
[12:11] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: mind if I wave through my debootstrap fix?
[12:11] <mvo> Fujitsu: thanks for working on this!
[12:12] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: please
[12:12] <Fujitsu> mvo: No problem. I don't like having upgrades broken.
[12:12] <Fujitsu> I would have had the fix earlier if it didn't take so damn long to build.
[12:16] <mvo> :)
[12:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you have any ideas about 76177?
[12:31] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, there's finally an lshal
[12:31] <pitti> Mithrandir: the approach would be to fix hal's volume-probe to check if the partition is an evms volume and set volume.fsusage to something different than 'filesystem' ('evms' probably)
[12:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: the open question from my side is how to detect that; it seems to appear like a standard ext3 partition
[12:33] <pitti> brb
[12:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: you can check for the metadata on it; I'm not sure if evms ships such a tool, but it could.
[12:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: as long as there is an unique magic on it, the volume prober can open the device itself, that wouldn't be a problem
[12:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: it already does that anyway for figuring out the file system
[12:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you happen to know a spec for this or shall I google a bit?
[12:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: give me two minutes
[12:45] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, there seem to be evms specific ioctls, also for discovery
[12:46] <Mithrandir> pitti: uh, it's just using devmapper so that'd be strange.  Sure you aren't looking at 2.4 era information?
[12:46] <pitti> Mithrandir: entirely possible, the presentation I just looked at was from 2003
[12:49] <mjr> 20
[12:52] <bhale> ARE WE THERE YET?
[12:53] <ajmitch> hello bhale 
[12:53] <bhale> hi andrew
[12:53] <Mithrandir> he loves ducks.
[12:53] <bhale> :)
[12:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: I didn't find anything more current, so I guess some RTFS is in order
[12:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: hal already detects dm-raid volumes, so this configuration is probably more like an lvm with multiple parts
[12:54] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, maybe so.  Anyway, I think we should fix it.
[12:54] <pitti> I agree
[01:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: doesn't seem to be fixed in latest hal either, I reported it upstream
[01:20] <ogra> mvo, ping
[01:25] <null__> hello
[01:25] <null__> does network manager automatically update the dns information for a wirless connection? 
[01:33] <Treenaks> null__: dns information is not 'for a connection', it's global -- /etc/resolv.conf
[01:33] <Treenaks> null__: and yes, n-m updates that
[01:33] <null__> Treenaks, it does not update dns info for my connection
[01:34] <null__> i get only this nameserver 192.168.1.1
[01:34] <Treenaks> null__: please ask support questions in #ubuntu
[01:34] <Treenaks> null__: I think your DHCP server is giving out the wrong nameserver
[01:34] <null__> instead of nameserver isp.nameserfver
[01:35] <Treenaks> null__: anyway, please ask support questions in #ubuntu
[01:35] <null__> Treenaks, thanks for the info, ill check my router
[01:35] <null__> cos i didnt know where the problem orignated from
[01:36] <ogra> pitti, is that true for our hal as well ? http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2007-April/008143.html
[01:37] <ogra> ..."HAL can already manage password-protected USB
[01:37] <ogra> drives, which require approximately the same handling as remote SSHFS
[01:37] <ogra> directories."...
[01:37] <pitti> our hal is not different in that regard
[01:37] <pitti> except that his reasoning is a bit flawed
[01:37] <ogra> yay, that will make my life way easier for ltspfs then :)
[01:38] <ogra> shouldnt be different in its implementation
[01:38] <pitti> because the cleartext block devices (dm) appear in /sys and thus are detected automatically, whereas fuse devices aren't
[01:38] <ogra> just that we dont need passwords :)
[01:38] <ogra> right
[01:38] <Boni> Hello! Does anyone know how to display a GREP output in one single line?
[01:39] <ogra> Boni, grep blah *|tr -d "\n"
[01:39] <ogra> and no, this is not a support channel :)
[01:40] <Boni> ah damnit okay, I missunderstood the channel name :)
[01:43] <mvo> ogra: pong
[01:46] <Boni> Anyway, thank you very much, ogra!
[01:50] <mdz> mvo: excellent upgrade experience at http://technical-itch.co.uk/2007/04/20/ubuntu-704-upgrade-first-impressions/
[01:52] <mvo> mdz: cool! that looks pretty good indeed :)
[02:01] <chaks> hi
[02:02] <chaks> anybody here can help with ubuntu and hal policies?
[02:03] <cjwatson> seb128: I'm wondering, would it make sense to start building the gtk directfb frontend?
[02:04] <seb128> cjwatson: I've planned to sync GTK on Debian when gusty opens
[02:04] <cjwatson> seb128: we aren't using it, but all the build-deps needed for it are already in main as far as I can see, and it would reduce our gtk+2.0 diff and allow me to sync cdebconf
[02:04] <seb128> cjwatson: I didn't do previous cycle because directfb was outdated most of the cycle and I was too busy to work on it
[02:04] <cjwatson> seb128: ok, great
[02:15] <ScottK> pitti: Yesterday keescook asked me to ping you today about checking to see if the dapper-security and edgy-security fixes for Bug #107628 have built, so ping.
[02:15] <ubotu> Malone bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
[02:23] <pitti> ScottK: unfortunately jackass is still busy, sorry
[02:24] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.  I guess ping you again tomorrow?
[02:24] <pitti> ScottK: please do
[02:24] <ScottK> OK.  Will do.
[02:28] <pitti> chaks: any details?
[02:28] <pitti> oh, he's not here any more
[02:29] <lifeless> nght all
[02:30] <pitti> bye lifeless 
[02:30] <ogra> night lifeless 
[02:46] <siretart> pitti: in bug #104332, several users report success with my package in feisty-proposed. okay to upload to feisty-updates?
[02:46] <ubotu> Malone bug 104332 in rdesktop "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104332
[02:47] <seb128> siretart: no need to upload, they can be moved now
[02:47] <pitti> siretart: I would prefer mvo's or bdmurray's blessing with verification-done TBH, but you can already upload it of course (I can still defer the accepting)
[02:48] <pitti> seb128: not any more, this was just a temporary test :(
[02:48] <seb128> pitti: oh, k
[02:48] <seb128> pitti: it didn't work correctly?
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: for this case it did, but cprov mentioned a bug which needed to be fixed first
[02:49] <mvo> pitti: rdesktop? I tested that it installs, but I do not have a rdesktop setup (maybe bdmurray has one)?
[02:49] <pitti> sorry, I don't know any details
[02:49] <seb128> k
[02:49] <pitti> mvo: that doesn't work with vmware or a laptop?
[02:50] <siretart> seb128: we can? how?
[02:50] <pitti> siretart: we will hopefully be able to do this soon; we ran a first test yesterday
[02:50] <seb128> siretart: no, apparently not
[02:50] <siretart> pitti: is this the NativeSourceSyncing spec?
[02:50] <pitti> siretart: yes, so I was told (parts of it at least)
[02:50] <siretart> cool!
[02:51] <siretart> will it be available for all developers or for ubuntu-archive only?
[02:51] <pitti> siretart: only for the archive team, it's a normal soyuz CLI tool
[02:51] <mvo> pitti: I know of no free rdesktop server, siretart do you know one? my impression is that you need windows to test it
[02:51] <cprov> siretart: https://launchpad.canonical.com/Soyuz/NativeSourceSyncing
[02:51] <pitti> well, maybe it'll be integrated into LP some day, I don't know
[02:51] <siretart> cprov: that url is restricted, it asks me for username/password :(
[02:52] <pitti> mvo: ah, that doesn't work with the standard server we ship? too bad
[02:52] <pitti> mvo: I would be happy with taking the word of three other testers instead of your's; are you?
[02:52] <siretart> mvo: AFAIK, there is no free rdp server. you need an windows server to test it
[02:52] <cprov> siretart: dunno, l.c.c wiki used to be public, no ?
[02:52] <Ng> http://xrdp.sourceforge.net/
[02:53] <StevenK> mvo: I have access to a few Windows servers that run RDP if you want me to test something.
[02:53] <mvo> pitti: yes, I have this problem for some other verificiations as well, e.g. multimedia keys or em64t server miscompilation
[02:53] <siretart> cprov: only the 'help.launchpad.net' wiki. the l.c.c wiki was never public TTBOMK
[02:54] <mvo> StevenK: if you could just check that rdesktop from feisty-proposed works, that would be appreciated, (bug i#104332)
[02:54] <cprov> siretart: anyway, I'm expecting to discuss better features for MOTU/SRU in UDS Seville. It should include API for handling universe queue and also copying packages via the LP UI.
[02:54] <mvo> Ng: thanks, looking
[02:54] <pitti> siretart: I see one tester of the feisty-proposed package; if you can get me two more, I'll push it out
[02:54] <siretart> cprov: this sounds very exciting! :)
[02:54] <siretart> pitti: ok
[02:54] <mvo> Ng: have you tried out this thing?
[02:54] <pitti> siretart: can you test it yourself?
[02:55] <ogra> i have to wait until US esat coast gets up, but i think i can get you some testers
[02:55] <ogra> *east
[02:55] <StevenK> mvo: Sure. If I get connected that's enough, or is there something specific I should look for?
[02:55] <pitti> siretart: if you have the setup to test it, your own testing counts as well, of course :)
[02:56] <mvo> StevenK: if it connects and works for some minutes, that should be fine
[02:56] <siretart> pitti: not too conviniently. Need to reinstall that test machien and find some way through the paket filter...
[02:56] <StevenK> mvo: Noted, give me a few minutes.
[02:57] <mvo> StevenK: sure, thanks!
[03:00] <Ng> mvo: not at all recently and I kinda suspect that testing against a "real" RDP server (ie a windows machine) is better anyway
[03:01] <mvo> Ng: I just compiled it, but I seem to be unable to connect. still, thanks for the hint 
[03:07] <StevenK> m
[03:08] <StevenK> mvo: Looks fine.
[03:09] <mvo> StevenK: thanks, could you please add that as a successful test to bug #104332 ?
[03:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 104332 in rdesktop "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104332
[03:10] <StevenK> mvo: Certainly. Done.
[03:13] <mvo> StevenK: thanks!
[03:17] <StevenK> mvo: Any time.
[03:20] <pitti> siretart: oh, the same fix was uploaded by Kees to -security, with some test results; so with StevenK's test this is fine for me to upload
[03:54] <Hobbsee> doko: it's april!  why arent the archives open yet!?!?  :P
[03:56] <sigix> after upgrading to fiesty from edgy, I log in and the intializing screen (the little applet saying like Nautilus starting.. ) just stays there and metacity won't start... any ideas?
[03:57] <sigix> I have tried #ubuntu, nobody has a clue... 
[03:57] <pitti> sigix: check if the loopback interface is up and if your clock is correct
[03:58] <sigix> pitti: got lo UP and time seems right... I can kick off metacity manually and it won't crash or anything... 
[03:59] <pitti> sigix: does it happen with a clean user profile as well?
[03:59] <sigix> hmmm... not sure... be right back as I log out and back in with a new user... 
[04:01] <tepsipakki> pitti: that happens on my laptop as well..
[04:02] <pitti> tepsipakki: no, now that you mention it it's most certainly an X bug!!
[04:02] <bddebian> Heya
[04:02] <tepsipakki> pitti: oh damn..
[04:02] <pitti> tepsipakki: any idea where it hangs? I already suspected esound
[04:03] <tepsipakki> pitti: I can see many aplay processes
[04:03] <pitti> tepsipakki: i. e. can you figure out which process stalls it and strace it maybe?
[04:03] <seb128> sigix: do you have a .gnomerc?
[04:03] <pitti> aplay!
[04:03] <tepsipakki> hmm.. now that we are here maybe it's time to track this down
[04:03] <sigix> pitti: it does not happen with another user profile
[04:04] <pitti> tepsipakki: can you purge esound and check if that cures it?
[04:04] <pitti> tepsipakki: that symptom rings a bell
[04:04] <tepsipakki> sure, a sec
[04:04] <sigix> seb128: would that be in .gnome?
[04:04] <pitti> not that esound would call aplay, of course
[04:04] <seb128> sigix: what .gnome?
[04:05] <pitti> seb128: oh, wait, gdm uses aplay, right?
[04:05] <rpereira> Did someone had problems with Feisty Fawn and serial mouse?
[04:05] <sigix> seb128: I found it, there is a file in my home .gnomerc
[04:05] <pochu> sigix: in ~/
[04:05] <seb128> sigix: what does it contain?
[04:05] <sigix> export WINDOW_MANAGER=~/.gnome-compiz-manager/openbox
[04:05] <seb128> that's it
[04:05] <sigix> delete it?
[04:05] <seb128> you used a non official gnome-compiz-manager?
[04:05] <seb128> yes
[04:06] <seb128> move it away
[04:06] <sigix> beryl before upgrading
[04:06] <seb128> k, that's it then
[04:06] <sigix> thanks guys
[04:06] <crimsun> as long as it's not an alsa-related issue.   /me ducks
[04:06] <seb128> using non official software bit you 
[04:06] <pitti> tepsipakki: that might explain your hang as well? I bet you used something like that for testing
[04:06] <sigix> ***ouch*** 
[04:06] <sigix> well glad fiesty supports the eye candy now
[04:06] <tepsipakki> pitti: no, this is a pretty stock edgy dist-upgraded to feisty in January I think
[04:07] <tepsipakki> no .gnomerc here
[04:07] <crimsun> tepsipakki: don't happen to be using snd-via82xx on that machine, do you?
[04:07] <tepsipakki> crimsun: no, i810
[04:07] <pitti> seb128: however, kicking esound in the but hard enough to fly out of main is still one of my pet griefs
[04:07] <crimsun> tepsipakki: meaning snd-intel8x0?
[04:07] <doko> Hobbsee: they are open, just frozen due to low temperatures, remember it's April ;-)
[04:07] <tepsipakki> crimsun: ah, yes
[04:07] <crimsun> tepsipakki: ok, different issue then.
[04:07] <seb128> pitti: that would have been a nice SoC
[04:08] <pitti> doko: 22 degrees here, come on :)
[04:08] <seb128> would be nice for a bounty
[04:08] <seb128> pitti: lucky you, 28C here
[04:08] <StevenK> 16 degrees here
[04:08] <StevenK> seb128: Swap you. :-)
[04:08] <Hobbsee> doko: you wrote in your mail that it would be open for general upload on 26 march...
[04:08] <tepsipakki> ok, gdm loads as normally it would, but gdmplay/aplay is stuck and no sound is heard
[04:09] <Hobbsee> doko: wasnt that i was whining about the "freeze for mass sync" part at all :P
[04:09] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's 11 months away, i suppose. I guess the toolchain is taking a while to come together :P
[04:09] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: haha
[04:09] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: is the 26th of march next year a thursday?
[04:09] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No :(
[04:09] <doko> argh, ... yeah, should be April ...
[04:09] <Hobbsee> the year after?  that's a *long* time for that toolchain...
[04:10] <Hobbsee> doko: *grin*
[04:10] <tepsipakki> pitti: killing esd makes the login to continue
[04:10] <StevenK> Hobbsee: We want to be *really* sure.
[04:10] <Hobbsee> StevenK: heh
[04:10] <tepsipakki> duh, didn't think of that
[04:10] <seb128> pitti: about your question, gdm uses /usr/lib/gdmplay which calls aplay indeed
[04:10] <crimsun> tepsipakki: right, that's an old bug IIRC
[04:11] <pitti> bah, I thought that would have been fixed for ages
[04:11] <StevenK> "In a shocking new move, Ubuntu has released Gutsy Gibbon, which looks just like Feisty Fawn."
[04:11] <tepsipakki> crimsun: is it a known issue that nforce2 audio is known to be noisy? (ie. doing stuff on the desktop makes different kind of noice etc)
[04:11] <StevenK> Then again, leaving the archive frozen the entire release ought to slow us down a tad.
[04:12] <seb128> pitti: we got quite some comment on the old bug during the feisty cycle about logins hanging due to esd
[04:12] <seb128> pitti: you don't read your bug mails? ;)
[04:12] <StevenK> tepsipakki: That might not be the driver.
[04:12] <crimsun> tepsipakki: affects many integrated audio chipsets.
[04:12] <Fujitsu> StevenK: At least we can't introduce any more bugs.
[04:12] <tepsipakki> crimsun: bugger
[04:12] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Wanna bet? :-P
[04:12] <pitti> seb128: the way I manage to crawl through my bug mail I largely ignore closed bugs
[04:13] <tepsipakki> crimsun: it's been there for a long time, so guess there's nothing to do then. Fortunately that's not an issue for me
[04:13] <seb128> pitti: k
[04:26] <doko> Mithrandir: please accept gcc-defaults_1.51ubuntu3
[04:30] <l3on_> hiya :)
[04:32] <pitti> Riddell: what would be the KDE equivalent of gnome-volume-manager, i. e. the daemon that watches out for hal device added/removed events and mount them/invoke photo application/invoke music player etc.?
[04:32] <seb128> pitti: reassigning bugs to KDE? ;)
[04:33] <Riddell> pitti: kded mediahandler (from kdebase)
[04:33] <Riddell> mediamanager rather
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: no, UDS planning; porting the 'unsafe device removal' thing to KDE
[04:34] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
[04:35] <seb128> pitti: oh, you work on kubuntu now, I see ;)
[04:35] <iwj> unsafe device removal> One of these days I'll congeal my proposed fix.
[04:35] <iwj> But it probably involves a new dm-* mode.
[04:35] <willverine> hi guys, is anyone here familiar with with the debconf python bindings?
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: PHEAR :)
[04:36] <seb128> pitti: I've registred https://blueprints.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-volumes-representation about drivers, volumes, etc handling if you want to subscribe
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: no, don't worry, just planning for common solutions
[04:36] <Hobbsee> seb128: pitti's moving to the dark side...
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: definitively
[04:36] <seb128> s/drivers/drives
[04:36] <pitti> willverine: very basically
[04:37] <pitti> seb128: done
[04:37] <willverine> pitti: do you know if its possible to register a template programatically via the python api?
[04:37] <seb128> pitti: cool
[04:37] <pitti> willverine: no, I don't know, but I don't think that this is the way to go; it's not a language binding issue at least
[04:38] <willverine> pitti: nope, ill have to make a meta package then :/
[04:40] <willverine> pitti: i could be evil and just update the file directly, any idea if that would break anything?

[04:40] <pitti> you mean updating /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat? that would be really evil
[04:41] <pitti> willverine: why not just ship the template in the package, as usual?
[04:42] <cjwatson> willverine: you can use the REGISTER command in the usual way (although that's to register new questions associated with a given template, not to register new templates - but that might have been what you meant)
[04:42] <cjwatson> absolutely do not munge templates.dat while debconf is running - changes probably won't be preserved
[04:42] <cjwatson> willverine: if you want more detail about this, I'm on the phone right now and likely will be for an hour or so more, but I'll be happy to help you in depth after that
[04:43] <willverine> cjwatson: could we maybe continue tomorrow?
[04:43] <cjwatson> sure
[04:44] <willverine> cjwatson: tx :) i have studies to get to.. tomorrow then..
[04:45] <Mithrandir> doko: accepted
[04:47] <robertj> can someone take a look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/simplesamba and give it a priority?
[04:53] <robertj> should I set status to review if I'm looking for someone to review it?
[05:12] <jdong_> seb128: I am going to reject bug 36321, it is a common user error in misconfiguring Xgl and not a bug in any system
[05:12] <ubotu> Malone bug 36321 in xserver-xgl "Incomplete logout options with XGL" [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/36321
[05:15] <Adri2000> Keybuk, Mithrandir: any idea about when MoM will be updated?
[05:18] <Hobbsee> Adri2000: after the main lot of autosyncs have been done
[05:18] <Hobbsee> presumably
[05:18] <cjwatson> pitti: Aurelien fixed my tzdata bug, apparently - might want to look at a merge
[05:18] <cjwatson>    * Convert old or single-level timezones into two-level timezones (closes: bug#420895).
[05:23] <Keybuk> Adri2000: when it's not broken
[05:23] <Adri2000> it's still broken? :s the debian mirror?
[05:23] <Keybuk> the machine MoM runs off is having issues
[05:23] <Keybuk> which is strange, since it's a completely different machine now, yet the issues remain :)
[05:24] <Adri2000> ok :p
[05:26] <vciaglia> re
[05:35] <Kim^J> pitti: Yo, here?
[05:37] <Kim^J> The problem with postgresql-8.2 is that it doesn't start. I'm using Kubuntu Feisty Fawn i386. It doesn't give me any messages, not a single one. It doesn't print anything inside /var/log/postgresql/
[05:38] <Kim^J> The installation went fine I hope.
[05:50] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, splendid; I'll look into that when gutsy opens
[05:50] <pitti> Kim^J: yep
[05:50] <pitti> Kim^J: how did you install this? was this an upgrade from a previous release? can you give me the output of pg_lsclusters?
[05:51] <Kim^J> pitti: Nope, New install. I'm really new to Postgre. I use MySQL alot, but a project I'm in requires that I use Postgre.
[05:51] <Kim^J> I can check that pg_lsclusters
[05:52] <Kim^J> Give the usual Perl error about LANGUAGE and LC_ALL not being set. And then nothing more. A row that says Version Cluster   Port Status Owner   Data Directory         Log FIle
[05:52] <Kim^J> And nothing more.
[05:54] <Kim^J> Argh... Netsplit.
[05:54] <pitti> Kim^J: still on your side :)
[05:55] <Kim^J> pitti: Did you got my last one?
[05:55] <pitti> Kim^J: ah, that explains it
[05:55] <pitti> Kim^J: it failed to create the default cluster because your locale is invalid
[05:56] <Kim^J> Oh...
[05:56] <pitti> Kim^J: please fix your locales, and then either purge and reinstall postgresql-8.2
[05:56] <Kim^J> Damn,.
[05:56] <Kim^J> Mkay
[05:56] <pitti> Kim^J: or do 'sudo pg_createcluster 8.2 main --start'
[05:56] <pitti> Kim^J: package installation prints out an error, but you probably didn't notice in a mass-install
[05:56] <Kim^J> Where do I set these locales? I'm not that new to Linux, just lazy. :) Worked fine on Slack. :)
[05:56] <pitti> Kim^J: sudo locale-gen <yourlocale>
[05:57] <pitti> Kim^J: any idea why they are broken in the first place?
[05:57] <ion_> Better install language-pack-XX. It should generate the appropriate locales IIRC.
[05:58] <Kim^J> Nope. They have always been broken on Ubuntu if you choose english and swedish timezone.
[05:58] <Kim^J> english lang and swedish timezone*
[05:58] <Kim^J> Or something like that... I use English as OS-lang and live in sweden. So Swedish time.
[06:01] <geser> cjwatson: are you still interested on the merge for devscripts 2.10.3ubuntu1? the archive has only 2.10.2ubuntu1
[06:01] <geser> should I update the debdiff and include your changelog entry for 2.10.2ubuntu1?
[06:03] <pitti> Kim^J: oh, that justifies a bug report
[06:03] <Riddell> pitti: able to review bug 91948 for SRU?
[06:03] <ubotu> Malone bug 91948 in hwdb-client "[apport]  hwdb-kde crashed with UnicodeEncodeError in assemble()" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91948
[06:03] <pitti> Riddell: doinf
[06:03] <pitti> s/f/g/
[06:04] <iwj> Gah, I updated my Xen testbed and now it doesn't work any more.
[06:05] <cjwatson> geser: go ahead and update it based on 2.10.2ubuntu1; merging in 2.10.x was the bulk of the diff so I imagine it should be a lot simpler
[06:05] <cjwatson> (for the record, reviewing a merge is approximately as much work as just doing it ...)
[06:05] <cjwatson> (for me, anyway)
[06:05] <pitti> Riddell: oh, .. + you' is magic enough to encode the left argument to UTF8 as well?
[06:05] <cjwatson> geser: but certainly no harm in updating it
[06:06] <cjwatson> Kim^J: using what version of the installer?
[06:06] <Riddell> pitti: I don't understand
[06:06] <cjwatson> Kim^J: modern installer versions should still select a usable locale
[06:06] <pitti> Riddell: I had expected some .encode('utf8') patch
[06:06] <Riddell> pitti: "self.comments[i] " is already unicode, so there was problems when casting it to str()
[06:07] <pitti> Riddell: ah, I see; the patch looks reasonable, if you tested it with some unicode characters I'm fine with it
[06:07] <Riddell> pitti: but sendpipe.write() needs a str() so I use qstring to encode it back later
[06:09] <iwj> Aha!  It has some stupid file in /var/lib which if it gets corrupted is broken.
[06:10] <iwj> But which apparently isn't actually needed for anything.
[06:10] <Kim^J> cjwatson: Kubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn installer.
[06:15] <cjwatson> Kim^J: I'd have thought you'd get en_US.UTF-8 in that case; but see also bug 57411
[06:15] <ubotu> Malone bug 57411 in ubiquity "Installer should be more clever with non-existant locations" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57411
[06:16] <cjwatson> (short description is not quite accurate, never mind)
[06:17] <Kim^J> Hmm... I think it's like this: I choose english as my language on the OS, but I choose Swedish as my keyboard layout. And that's probably what's fucking it up.
[06:17] <cjwatson> keyboard layout is not relevant
[06:17] <cjwatson> timezone would be relevant
[06:18] <cjwatson> but even so, it nowadays has an explicit check whether the locale it's trying to select based on language+timezone is in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
[06:20] <cjwatson> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubiquity/trunk/annotate/2030?file_id=tzsetup-20060405004630-49a8f1219956eb58
[06:21] <cjwatson> Kim^J: so it definitely shouldn't leave you with a broken locale either way, and I'd like a bug report against ubiquity with details; please attach /var/log/installer/syslog and tell me the locale it left you with
[06:21] <Kim^J> Mkay...
[06:24] <ogra> pitti, another SRU in bug 109989
[06:24] <ubotu> Malone bug 109989 in ltsp "SRU for ltsp" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109989
[06:33] <seb128> jdong_: ok, cool, any bug closing is welcome ;)
[06:34] <jdong_> haha :)
[06:34] <jdong_> seb128: hopefully we won't need Xgl in the near future :D
[06:35] <seb128> yeah
[06:35] <seb128> xorg and compiz
[06:35] <seb128> no xgl, no beryl
[06:35] <seb128> easier for everybody ;)
[06:35] <ogra> jdong_, well if you are ati user and eager to test desktop effects ...
[06:35] <seb128> ogra: I'm an ati user and compiz works correctly with xorg aiglx
[06:36] <ogra> only 1/3 of the card works with the free driver
[06:36] <ogra> the other two require fglrx with xgl :/
[06:36] <jdong_> seb128: radeon X1x00 series card here...
[06:36] <jdong_> actually not even VESA works on it in Feisty
[06:36] <jdong_> *cough* *cough*
[06:36] <jdong_> :)
[06:36] <Treenaks> jdong_: that's _bad_ :)
[06:36] <jdong_> don't worry, I still love you guys anyway :)
[06:36] <jdong_> Treenaks: Radeon X1x00 users boot to a VT on Feisty live
[06:36] <jdong_> it is _bad_ :)
[06:37] <ogra> seb128, i'm an ati user as well :) but no way for me with an ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M
[06:37] <jdong_> I would like to propose it as reason to respin the install CD's....
[06:37] <jdong_> but I don't think it would happen
[06:38] <cjwatson> jdong_: is a fix even available yet? last I looked it was unclear
[06:39] <jdong_> cjwatson: I'm not sure either, but suppose we do find a fix, is it likely for updated discs to be released?
[06:39] <cjwatson> point releases are possible
[06:39] <jdong_> I think the entire spectrum of X1x00 cards is a very significant impact
[06:39] <mc44> perhaps with fixed ata prblems too? :)
[06:39] <jdong_> and it would be worth the effort to do a point release :)
[06:39] <cjwatson> mc44: what ata problems are outstanding?
[06:40] <cjwatson> jdong_: worth the effort> bear in mind that last time it came to about a man-month or two of effort (yes, I know, mythical, etc.)
[06:40] <cjwatson> and that was just in the employed core team
[06:40] <jdong_> cjwatson: yeah, I acknolwedge it is a lot of work and don't want to be the one whining and begging
[06:40] <cjwatson> so I don't want to do them too frequently
[06:40] <cjwatson> that is not to say it's impossible, but I would prefer to do them for more than one issue
[06:41] <TomaszD> can we expect a 6.06.2 point release?
[06:41] <TomaszD> there's already about 250mb worth of updates for 6.06.1
[06:41] <TomaszD> no fun.
[06:42] <jdong_> anyone know the bugno for the X1x00 thing?
[06:43] <jdong_> also... is it legal to have fglrx turn on by default on a LiveCD? A temporary workaround could just be an unofficial installCD that enables FGLRX directly
[06:43] <jdong_> (*shudder* sounds ugly though)
[06:44] <cjwatson> TomaszD: same comments apply
[06:44] <cjwatson> possible, but I'd prefer to have concrete serious issues rather than just too-many-updates
[06:45] <TomaszD> were there any concrete serious issues for 6.06.1?
[06:45] <jdong_> installer, IIRC
[06:46] <jdong_> cjwatson: on an unrelated issue, could backports be processed this week? pretty please :)
[06:46] <jdong_> most importantly, cjwatson, can you sponsor bug 95002 into edgy-backports?
[06:46] <ubotu> Malone bug 95002 in edgy-backports "Can't upgrade nexuiz from edgy-backports" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95002
[06:47] <cjwatson> err, I don't do a lot of archive work at the moment
[06:47] <jdong_> unmetdeps against edgy-backports, I've attached a debdiff that fixes it at the end
[06:47] <TomaszD> anyhow, I'd love to see livecd with fglrx enabled. I could never get the livecd going, because the open ati driver does not work with my radeon 9600xt card (dual link dvi)
[06:47] <cjwatson> TomaszD: what jdong said; I was getting swamped by installer bugs and on balance it probably saved me time overall to go through the pain of doing a point release
[06:47] <TomaszD> cjwatson, fair enough.
[06:47] <cjwatson> in fact that was exactly why I pushed for it
[06:48] <cjwatson> jdong_: any reason that can't go into gutsy and be backported normally?
[06:49] <jdong_> cjwatson: hmm, that could be an option too I guess... have gutsy do the depends: ${Source-Version} and backport that to Edgy
[06:50] <cjwatson> right, aside from gutsy not being entirely open yet, but that'll be fixed tomorrow - it could be uploaded right now
[06:50] <cjwatson> how about I sponsor that fix into gutsy instead
[06:50] <jdong_> that works too :)
[06:51] <pitti> ogra: oh, why did you open a separate bug for this? that's confusing
[06:54] <geser> cjwatson: updated debdiff for devscripts is in bug #108232
[06:54] <ubotu> Malone bug 108232 in devscripts "[Merge]  devscripts 2.10.4ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108232
[06:54] <cjwatson> perhaps somebody else could deal with that
[06:54] <cjwatson> I was really just sorting out the initial gutsy bootstrap
[06:54] <geser> ubuntu-main-sponsors is already subscribed to it
[06:55] <tsmithe>  #ubuntustudio
[06:56] <cjwatson> jdong_: uploaded
[06:56] <jdong_> cjwatson: thank you!
[07:02] <mc44> cjwatson: i.e. this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/106864
[07:02] <ubotu> Malone bug 106864 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty boot fail "can't access tty" IDE SATA problem" [High,Confirmed]  
[07:11] <cjwatson> mc44: ok, well there's nothing to be done about it from the point-release point of view until something is in feisty-updates
[09:01] <pochu> 20:59 < Moniker42> the name is based on ian, and the deb is based on...... umm... his girlfriend debby or something? i forget ;)
[09:01] <pochu> 20:59 < Moniker42> the name is based on ian, and the deb is based on...... umm... his girlfriend debby or something? i forget ;)
[09:01] <Mithrandir> Deborah, iirc.  His wife
[09:02] <ion_> ex- IIRC.
[09:02] <ion_> Unless ive been misinformed. :-)
[09:02] <pochu> 20:59 < Moniker42> the name is based on ian, and the deb is based on...... umm... his girlfriend debby or something? i forget ;)
[09:02] <pochu> 20:59 < Moniker42> the name is based on ian, and the deb is based on...... umm... his girlfriend debby or something? i forget ;)
[09:02] <Mithrandir> pochu: we heard you the first time.
[09:02] <Treenaks> pochu: please stop pasting
[09:02] <pochu> LoL
[09:03] <bhale> dpm
[09:03] <bhale> don't middle click
[09:05] <bddebian> Whoa, bhale!
[09:06] <bddebian> bhale: Where the hell ya been man? :)
[09:06] <bhale> bddebian: i am in and out (more out than in)
[09:06] <bhale> busy working
[09:06] <bhale> I still troll Mithrandir some times
[09:06] <bddebian> heh
[09:06] <ion_> Is to bhale something between to inhale and to exhale, or do you have to extrapolate to some direction?
[09:07] <Mithrandir> hiya tseng
[09:07] <Treenaks> ion_: 'Oh bhale' (</austin powers>)
[09:07] <bhale> Treenaks: good one!
[09:07] <ion_> :-)
[09:20] <pygi> siretart, yay :)
[09:26] <blackskad> hi all
[09:27] <blackskad> is the update-manager translated to any language other than english?
[09:27] <mdke> blackskad: yes, all of Ubuntu is translated into lots of languages
[09:28] <blackskad> is it normal that I can't view that translations in launchpad?
[09:28] <pochu> blackskad: no, it's not
[09:29] <pochu> blackskad: which language?
[09:29] <blackskad> bug #110020 is about a german translation
[09:29] <ubotu> Malone bug 110020 in update-manager "Missing localization in update manager (german)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110020
[09:30] <pochu> blackskad: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/update-manager/+pots/update-manager/de/+translate
[09:30] <bhale> hey thom 
[09:31] <pochu> blackskad: do you have the packages language-pack-de and language-pack-base-de installed?
[09:31] <blackskad> ok, sorry, I was looking at the overall page at ubuntu>update-manager instead of ubuntu>7.04>update-manager
[09:32] <blackskad> if they are in the default installation, then I have them
[11:58] <Nafallo> is it hard to get an appartment in ldn?