[12:59] <mdke> Nafallo: no, but it's expensive
[01:02] <Nafallo> yea. I guess a move from Sweden would be quite expensive to start with :-P.
[01:03] <Nafallo> anyway. will translate my CV :-)
[01:03] <mdke> Nafallo: it's ok if you are being paid well, or sharing accomodation
[01:04] <Nafallo> ah. nice. that would probably be quite fun :-)
[01:08] <ajmitch> morning
[01:08] <Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
[01:09] <mc44> Nafallo: also, our alcohol is cheaper than in Sweden :)
[01:09] <Nafallo> mc44: hehe. I don't care much about alcohol though :-)
[01:09] <Nafallo> rather spend my money on computerparts ;-)
[01:37] <siti> Can a developer look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bug/66518  I have some bug fixes for gksu.  It fixes most startup notification problems and would be nice to be merged.
[01:37] <ubotu> Malone bug 66518 in gksu "[Edgy + Feisty]  Startup Notification broken" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[01:41] <pygi> siti, I can look, I'm not a dev tho
[01:41] <pygi> I can review the patch ^_^
[01:43] <pygi> siti, simple patch ^_^
[01:44] <siti> yeah it's very simple but fixes the most annoying bugs I have with ubuntu 
[01:44] <pygi> if you want me to ofcourse ^_^
[01:44] <siti> roll a new package?
[01:45] <pygi> well, apply patches to existing one, and upload it to archives =)
[01:45] <siti> yeah that would be cool, how does it get merged from there, sorry I am quite new ...
[01:46] <pygi> well, if it gets into archives, then you can get it :P
[01:46] <pygi> you could call that merged-in :)
[01:46] <siti> ok
[01:46] <pygi> ok, assigned to me
[01:46] <pygi> will take care of it in near future I hope =)
[01:46] <siti> thanks
[01:47] <pygi> yw, thank you
[01:47] <siti> I'll nag you if you don't ;)
[01:47] <pygi> siti, sure, you're most welcome to :)
[01:48] <Nafallo> pygi: kewl. didn't know you where a core-dev :-)
[01:48] <pygi> Nafallo, I'm not :P
[01:48] <pygi> Nafallo, I'm not even a MOTU =)
[01:49] <Nafallo> pygi: ah. sponsoring...
[01:49] <jdong> how does distro registering work on LP? who is allowed to start a distro, what services do you get, etc?
[01:49] <pygi> jdong, I guess #launchpad may be better answer to that?
[01:49] <pygi> Nafallo, nod ^_^
[01:49] <pygi> Nafallo, nobody would grant core dev access to a person like me :P
[01:49] <siti> hehe
[01:50] <Nafallo> :-P
[01:50] <Nafallo> why am I NOT in bed?
[01:51] <pygi> because it's only 1:50?
[01:51] <Nafallo> which is in the middle of the night... I should sleep :-)
[01:52] <pygi> hm, sleep is overrated :P
[01:52] <Nafallo> depends...
[01:53] <pygi> on the position of the moon?
[01:54] <pygi> siti, hopefully that can go in edgy-updates, and feisty-updates
[01:54] <pygi> I'd say the later one is more probably :)
[01:55] <siti> yeah that would be nice
[01:55] <siti> have you noticed how screwed up the startup notification is when using gksu too?
[01:56] <pygi> ^_^
[01:56] <pygi> whatever you need, just feel free to poke :)
[01:56] <siti> ok
[01:56] <siti> thanks
[01:56] <pygi> If you need help in writing patches, just say ^_^
[01:57] <siti> I am fine with patches, it's more learning how ubuntu/debian works and how to make packages
[01:57] <pygi> oki, #ubuntu-motu is always there to help, and ofcourse you're always welcome to mail  me if you need something ^_^
[01:57] <pygi> it's not hard as it seems, trust me =)
[01:58] <siti> :)
[03:04] <superm1> hey guys some time ago I poked around in here to try to setup a mailing list and got two answers: email to rt@a.c.c and mailman@l.u.c.  I've sent email to both this last month, but haven't heard back from either.  What is the correct way to setup a mailing list?
[03:05] <lifeless> superm1: did you get a confirmation from rt ?
[03:05] <superm1> I got a # back from them, but it was automated
[03:05] <superm1> no people have responded
[03:06] <superm1> it just said to include it in the subject of all future communications
[03:08] <superm1> lifeless, it has been almost a month (march 30th) since i sent.  Is there somewhere else i should poke?
[03:09] <lifeless> superm1: you can ask about progress in #canonical-sysadmin, or follow up to the mail.
[03:09] <superm1> lifeless, already followed up to the mail (twice now) with no response.  i'll poke in that channel.  thanks 
[03:10] <Hobbsee> morning all
[04:58] <fabbione> morning guys
[04:58] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione!
[04:59] <fabbione> hey hey
[04:59] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:12] <desrt> sup d00ds?
[05:13] <fabbione> desrt: i will tell you once i am alive
[05:13] <desrt> you are not yet born?
[05:13] <desrt> hey.  back off.  i like this guy.
[05:13] <Hobbsee> only gently!
[05:14] <desrt> please no.
[05:14] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:17] <n3t0> how i can set packages priority on ubuntu apt-get?
[05:17] <desrt> n3t0; you have come to the wrong place, i'm afraid
[05:17] <n3t0> ups. its devel
[05:17] <n3t0> sorry
[05:17] <desrt> it's cool
[05:18] <desrt> have a nice night
[05:18] <fabbione> desrt: i have been reborn many times.. today i just need to poweron the brain
[05:18] <n3t0> thanls
[05:18] <n3t0> thanks
[05:18] <desrt> ah
[05:18] <desrt> coffee works better for that than cattle prods.
[05:18] <desrt> Hobbsee ought to have known better
[05:18] <Hobbsee> desrt: but far less fun...
[05:18] <Hobbsee> desrt: i keep saying that i want a lassoo and a cattle prod at work, but they keep saying no...
[05:19] <desrt> Hobbsee; some things are best done on personal time
[05:19] <Hobbsee> desrt: heh.  just to use on pesky customers, nothing else...
[05:20] <desrt> if you have access to their home address information then you could easily turn it into a personal-time hobby
[05:21] <Hobbsee> hrm, i'll be right
[05:21] <Hobbsee> besides - once i leave work, it's notmy problem anymore
[05:21] <Hobbsee> so if foolish customers leave all their shopping behind, i dont care.  go talk to the people on the desk :P
[05:21] <desrt> true... but you have to take out your agression somewhere
[05:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:22] <Hobbsee> me?  agressive?
[05:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:23] <Hobbsee> "the amount of shopping you leave behind is directly proportional to your amount of embarrassment, when you come back, asking us for it"
[05:23] <desrt> it's odd that you have "shopping" as a noun to refer to the items
[05:23] <Hobbsee> desrt: i take my agression from that out, on the relatively few people, who do that, and come and say "WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY MILK/MEAT/OTHER COLD STUFF ISNT IN HERE?!?!?!?!"
[05:24] <jdong> I wish I had that's what she said in here....
[05:24] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:24] <jdong> Hobbsee: but lol I've forgotten stuff once or twice too
[05:24] <Hobbsee> desrt: i believe it's a noun?
[05:24] <Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, but there's no reason to be an absolute fool, or bitchy about it :P
[05:24] <jdong> Hobbsee: in my experience the staffers were generally very lenient about it
[05:24] <jdong> and it was an overwhelmingly positive experience
[05:25] <Hobbsee> jdong: same here.  on the other end.  however, there are a small group of people who just blow your mind
[05:25] <desrt> we always kept a book
[05:25] <jdong> mostly because, contrary to what everyone here believes, I don't bitch out or act aggressive when I'm seeking help :)
[05:25] <Hobbsee> desrt: so do we.  it's the only way to do it
[05:25] <jdong> oh, those people will always exist
[05:25] <jdong> just a second ago there was one in #ubuntuforums....
[05:25] <desrt> erm
[05:25] <jdong> OUTRAGED that he can't use "all 64 bits" of his processor
[05:25] <desrt> is there an "ubuntu irc" forum?
[05:25] <jdong> and have win32codecs at the same time
[05:25] <desrt> jdong; dude.  that was me.
[05:25] <jdong> desrt: don't even get me started on the name of that channel
[05:25] <desrt> jdong; ease up.
[05:26] <jdong> desrt: lol
[05:26] <jdong> I really wanted to shove my double long pointer up his circular buffer.
[05:27] <jdong> ha! I'm using my CS lingo!
[05:27] <desrt> dude...
[05:27] <Hobbsee> </ work rant>
[05:28] <jdong> Hobbsee: I guess you have answered first hand a question I've pondered several years
[05:29] <Hobbsee> jdong: oh?
[05:29] <jdong> Hobbsee: "I wonder what this guy is like in person...."
[05:29] <Hobbsee> jdong: oh?  how so?
[05:29] <jdong> Hobbsee: you actually get to meet your interesting-folk in person
[05:29] <Hobbsee> jdong: true
[05:30] <desrt> ...internet grocers...
[05:30] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:30] <desrt> /join #food
 d00ds.. i forg0t muh shoppin'
 it was... in a bag!
[05:31] <desrt> ** Hobbsee sets mode [+b n00b!*@*] 
[05:31] <desrt> ** Hobbsee kicks n00b
[05:31] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:31] <ajmitch> I'm sure Hobbsee would never do that, and that she'll be all shy & quiet at UDS ;)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> quite sure.  just like elky
[05:32] <jdong> whee! I'm "ms daisy" now
[05:32] <desrt> are you being driven?
[05:33] <jdong> that's what.... must resist...
[05:33] <desrt> Hobbsee, ajmitch; pls help.
[05:33] <jdong> !twss-#ubuntuforums
[05:33] <ubotu> That's what she said!
[05:34] <Hobbsee> desrt: not sure i can...
[05:34] <ajmitch> desrt: only sedatives can help him now
[05:34] <jdong> I'm convinced that if one thinks pervertedly enough, that response works for any statement.
[05:34] <jdong> ajmitch: those didn't work either :)
[05:35] <desrt> /join #ubuntu-sober
[05:59] <leninz> can someone help me install wxJavaScript on ubuntu 6.06?
[05:59] <leninz> please
[07:19] <ion_> :h
[07:19] <ion_> Whoops.
[07:21] <dholbach> good morning
[07:34] <ion_> Hi dholbach
[07:35] <dholbach> hey ion_
[08:18] <fabbione> Mithrandir: are the gates to gutsy open in full?
[08:19] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no, still closed.
[08:20] <Mithrandir> it's nowhere near noon yet
[08:20] <fabbione> ok
[08:20] <fabbione> noon?
[08:20] <fabbione> i must have missed an email or two
[08:21] <Mithrandir> u-d-a?
[08:21] <fabbione> hmmm gcj is borked...
[08:21] <fabbione> oh very last line
[08:21] <fabbione> i did stop half way being all about gcj :P
[08:24] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: catch up!  it's 4pm!  :P
[08:24] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: does that mean I can go home for today?
[08:25] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you mean you get to stop work at all?
[08:25] <Hobbsee> if you like :P
[08:27] <pitti> Good morning
[08:27] <Hobbsee> heya pitti!
[08:27] <Mithrandir> hiya Martin
[08:31] <ajmitch> pitti: what about NZ? :)
[08:31] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: hard to see you over the edge of the sea.
[08:31] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: isnt that part of australia anyway?
[08:31] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: we had more sense than that
[08:31] <Hobbsee> oh wait, that's where we send our criminals.  deportation mark 2
[08:44] <bimberi> :)
[08:45] <mdke> deport her to England
[08:45] <bimberi> ah, the famous...
[08:45] <mdke> Nafallo: are you involved with ubuntu sweden? If not, can you tell me who is?
[08:47] <bimberi> mdke: England!  Gosh it wasn't that bad :P
[08:48] <Hobbsee> mdke: you cant. that's mine
[08:48] <Mithrandir> poor mdke 
[08:52] <bimberi> > battery, followed by an issue on the laptop's motherboard.
[08:52] <bimberi> argn, that failed miserably
[08:55] <Hobbsee> haha
[08:57] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: looking at it
[08:57] <Fujitsu> Thanks Mithrandir.
[08:58] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: I see it's not on MOTU/SRU yet, but we now have the ability to copy binaries between pockets, so if you could reupload with the version number you want in -updates, that'd be good.
[08:58] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: I saw somebody say yesterday that it wasn't actually able to be used in the moment.
[08:58] <Fujitsu> But I'll adjust and reupload.
[08:59] <Mithrandir> hm, I'll see if I find that discussion
[09:00] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: I can't see anything in the discussion about it not working yet.
[09:01] <Fujitsu> I remember something over the past couple of days, but I can't see it either.
[09:02] <Mithrandir> hm, sorry, I missed Martin's "this was just a temporary test"
[09:02] <Fujitsu> That's the one.
[09:02] <Mithrandir> mea culpa; I'll go poke it through then
[09:03] <Fujitsu> OK, so we can't actually do it yet?
[09:04] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure, and it's no harm doing it the old way.
[09:05] <Fujitsu> Good, I don't really want to manually minimise debdiffs again tonight.
[09:06] <Fujitsu> I love build systems that generate huge diffs due to autoconf changes :)
[09:08] <Mithrandir> both accepted now
[09:08] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[09:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: cprov removed the tool again, mentioning some bug that needed to be fixed before; its description was totally uncomprehensible to me, though (speaking in terms of internal LP concepts and classes)
[09:08] <saispo> hi
[09:09] <Mithrandir> pitti: oh, the one about it copying random hppa binaries about?
[09:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, that wasn't an issue
[09:09] <Mithrandir> ok
[09:18] <popey> morning all. I have a question about a package that isn't in the repo, but I (and the author) would like it to be. Problem is that the package in question (xvidcap) is currently compiled statically against fmpeg-svn8195 rather than the version in the repo..
[09:18] <popey> ..the author cites "extra testing" "more thorough testing required" and "extra external dependancy " as reasons for statically linking, but I am not convinced these are show-stoppers
[09:19] <Mithrandir> popey: you can cite "more pain for security updates" as a reason not to statically link
[09:19] <popey> I would like to help him where I can to get it into the universe repo, but if we are going to be successfull does it make sense for me to push for not static linking?
[09:19] <popey> true
[09:21] <popey> I suspect that as a by-product of having it in the repo it will get quite a bit more testing, as it is I think people dont use xvidcap for screencasting (but use something like istanbul) simply because it's got a barrier to use - it's not in the repo
[09:21] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: about your answer on the commercial repos yesterday - my question was more "how often does canonical plan to update these repositories, and for how many releases will they do it?  ie, just LTS ones?"
[09:22] <popey> should I grab a mentor from the MOTU wiki pages and get some guidance directly?
[09:22] <florian> Hello!
[09:22] <Hobbsee> popey: or ask in #ubuntu-motu with anything you need help with
[09:22] <Hobbsee> hi florian 
[09:22] <popey> ah, of course, thanks Hobbsee 
[09:22] <florian> Is there a development kernel 2.6.21 for ubuntu?
[09:23] <florian> I tried to build one myselve, but it seems there are a lot of patches for the ubuntu kernel.
[09:23] <Hobbsee> florian: not yet
[09:23] <florian> The 2.6.20 doesn't work with my acpi
[09:23] <Hobbsee> presumably we'll move straight to .22? or .23?
[09:23] <fabbione> florian: it's on kernel.org... there is a development tree but it's not for general use
[09:24] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: AIUI, the plan is .22
[09:24] <fabbione> florian: it's lacking all the ubuntu stuff.. basically it's .21 vanilla in .deb package
[09:24] <florian> fabbione: also a ubuntu version? I couldn't get it to work on feisty ...
[09:24] <fabbione> florian: well then you will have to wait...
[09:24] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: great, okay
[09:24] <fabbione> florian: it's brand new merge
[09:24] <florian> fabbione: OK, I was looking for a ubuntu package ...
[09:24] <Hobbsee> florian: and it'll go on gutsy, nto feisty
[09:25] <fabbione> florian: no, there is no such thing yet
[09:25] <florian> Where ist the right place to get a development kernel for ubuntu?
[09:26] <Hobbsee> florian: in the gutsy repos.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> when it exists
[09:26] <florian> Hobbsee: OK, thanks ...
[09:26] <hunger> Hobbsee: gutsy repos exist.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> hunger: yes, but the new kernel doesnt
[09:26] <Hobbsee> which was what i was referring to :P
[09:26] <hunger> Hobbsee: They seem to contain (parts of) the toolchain only so far though.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> i know
[09:27] <hunger> Hobbsee: Sorry to bother you then!
[09:27] <Hobbsee> hunger: no problem :)
[09:27] <florian> Yes that is allright. I just wanted to know where if available I could look for devolopment stuff.
[09:28] <florian> So I will watch the gusy development ...
[09:29] <saispo> where NetworkManager configuration file is stored ?
[09:30] <Fujitsu> saispo: It doesn't have a config file, AFAIK. All configuration is stored per-user in gconf.
[09:30] <doko> cjwatson: could you merge debhelper before the archive generally opens?
[09:31] <saispo> Fujitsu: ok, the speed rate for wireless config is in gconf too ?
[09:32] <Mithrandir> saispo: NM doesn't force the speed rate, iirc.
[09:32] <Fujitsu> I doubt NetworkManager does that sort of stuff.
[09:32] <saispo> :/
[09:33] <saispo> i have a 54mbits card and my french isp have a 54mbits router
[09:33] <saispo> but ubuntu speed is 11 mbits :/
[09:33] <saispo> and i read in /etc/network/if* a variable with the speed rate
[09:35] <tarzeau> i'm looking for the di i386 etch 2.6 netinstaller kernel config file...
[09:36] <Fujitsu> tarzeau: You're not going to find much/anything about Etch in here...
[09:37] <saispo> Fujitsu: i search where this variable $IF_WIRELESS_RATE is set
[09:38] <tarzeau> Fujitsu: sorry wrong chan
[09:49] <doko> pitti: please promote axis, wsdl4j, libcommons-discovery-java to main (already approved during the feisty cycle, now needed by java-gcj-compat)
[09:51] <doko> Mithrandir: please accept python2.5
[09:52] <Mithrandir> doko: accepted.
[10:02] <dholbach> cjwatson: do you if libatk1.0-udeb is used somewhere? (debian dropped it and I'm not sure if I can merge it like that)
[10:03] <dholbach> cjwatson: forget what I just said, they just create it differently
[10:09] <siretart> Mithrandir: why is bug #106352 not applicable for gutsy?
[10:09] <ubotu> Malone bug 106352 in lcd4linux "please sync lcd4linux_0.10.1~rc1-1 from debian/unstable" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/106352
[10:10] <Mithrandir> siretart: because it'll be done by the "auto"-sync.
[10:10] <thom> bhale: dude!
[10:17] <willverine> cjwatson: hi :)
[10:17] <pitti> doko: at it
[10:17] <pygi> siretart, around?
[10:18] <siretart> pygi: .
[10:18] <pitti> doko: erledigt
[10:18] <pygi> siretart, I've talked build system to produce .4 libs ^_^
[10:19] <pygi> which would mean .... guess what :)
[10:20] <siretart> pygi: you finally release the next version?
[10:20] <pygi> siretart, sure, very soon :)
[10:20] <cjwatson> doko: yeah, ok
[10:21] <pygi> siretart, with ABI not broken even
[10:21] <cjwatson> pitti: actually, what happened was that a newer rollout supported copy-package, but that rollout also broke the publisher so cprov flipped the /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current symlink back
[10:21] <pygi> biggest thing to note in new version will be - we stopped using /dev/sg, on advisal of kernel people
[10:21] <cjwatson> pitti: however, that shouldn't stop you being able to run copy-package.py from the newer codeline even though it's not .../current
[10:21] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, so that was unrelated actually, I wasn't 100% sure about it
[10:22] <cjwatson> certainly people doing -proposed uploads now should use the version number they want in -updates
[10:22] <cjwatson> willverine: hi
[10:22] <pitti> right, I already had editmoin open when cprov called me back :)
[10:23] <willverine> cjwatson: here is where i am at the moment, i can do it from the terminal (ie load the template i want) and i can do it from perl
[10:23] <cjwatson> willverine: so what's the perl incantation you're using?
[10:23] <willverine> cjwatson: cause the perl bindings exist, but i have no idea whether python bindings exist or where i could find them
[10:23] <cjwatson> 'import debconf'
[10:24] <willverine> cjwatson: yup, but how do you load a template?
[10:24] <cjwatson> willverine: that question doesn't really make sense to me; could you back up a bit and explain what you're trying to do?
[10:24] <willverine> cjwatson: the only command that looks right is register
[10:25] <willverine> cjwatson: from the command line ill type in debconf-loadtemplate [PACKAGENAME]  [TEMPLATEFILE] 
[10:25] <cjwatson> no, what are you trying to achieve?
[10:25] <willverine> cjwatson: debconf-loadtemplate is a perl script
[10:25] <willverine> cjwatson: im trying to load a template
[10:25] <cjwatson> I'm familiar with debconf
[10:25] <cjwatson> willverine: that's a means to an end. What's the end?
[10:26] <cjwatson> it should be pretty rare to need to use debconf-loadtemplate manually
[10:26] <willverine> cjwatson: to be able to have debconf 'variables' available to set before the appropriate packages are installed
[10:26] <cjwatson> willverine: is this some kind of installation preseeding thing?
[10:26] <willverine> cjwatson: yes
[10:27] <cjwatson> willverine: why not use debconf-set-selections?
[10:28] <cjwatson> you *can* use the register command to do this (and debconf-set-selections does something a bit like that internally; the cdebconf implementation of debconf-set-selections actually does do exactly that) but I'd recommend using debconf-set-selections rather than doing it by steam
[10:30] <willverine> cjwatson: yes thats exactly what i want to do (the template route is a roundabout way to accomplish the same)
[10:31] <willverine> cjwatson: do you know what the python for debconf would look like to accomplish the same (ie which command to use)
[10:33] <cjwatson> something like:
[10:33] <cjwatson> db = debconf.Debconf()
[10:33] <cjwatson> try:
[10:33] <cjwatson>     db.set(template, value)
[10:33] <cjwatson> except debconf.DebconfError:
[10:33] <cjwatson>     db.register(template, template)
[10:33] <cjwatson>     db.set(template, value)
[10:33] <cjwatson> db.fset(template, 'seen', 'true')
[10:33] <cjwatson> can't remember if the 'REGISTER template template' trick works in debconf - I think it does
[10:34] <cjwatson> better to have a real dummy template to register it against of course
[10:34] <cjwatson> then it would be db.register('name/of/dummy/template', new_question_name)
[10:34] <willverine> cjwatson: tx! :) will give it a try
[10:34] <cjwatson> the perl implementation of debconf-set-selections does it differently because it's using debconf internals to get the job done
[10:35] <cjwatson> the same functions aren't accessible to python bindings - they're client-only
[10:35] <cjwatson> hence my strong recommendation to use the external program
[10:36] <cjwatson> +  * dh_installudev: Install udev rules directly into /etc/udev/rules.d/, not
[10:36] <cjwatson> +    using the symlinks. MD has agreed that this is more appropriate for most
[10:36] <cjwatson> +    packages.
[10:36] <cjwatson> wow, is the universe ending?
[10:37] <StevenK> Dear God, Macro d'Itri is changing his opinion?!
[10:37] <StevenK> Er, Marco
[10:39] <StevenK> cjwatson: Say it ain't so!
[10:39] <fabbione> StevenK: MD is not totally unreasonable..
[10:40] <StevenK> fabbione: To be completly honest, I've found him unreasonable enough to avoid using anything he maintains.
[10:40] <fabbione> StevenK: i guess it's a matter of personal experience..
[10:41] <StevenK> I guess so.
[10:44] <cjwatson> FWIW I'm not making a comment on him personally, rather that I thought this was a particular issue he felt very strongly about (and I happened to disagree)
[10:46] <Mithrandir> it'll also help reduce the delta we have to Debian, which is good.
[10:49] <cjwatson> yeah, most of the dh_installudev diff (though not all - different default priority and separator character) goes away
[10:49] <Mithrandir> we have a fair number of packages which moves the file, too.
[10:57] <jono> does feisty use compiz or beryl?
[10:57] <StevenK> The former.
[10:57] <Mithrandir> compiz is in main, beryl in universe
[10:58] <jono> thanks
[11:20] <Nafallo> mdke: pong. I am :-).
[11:29] <cjwatson> Mithrandir,doko: just testing debhelper now - will upload it when I'm satisfied
[11:30] <doko> cjwatson: thanks
[11:32] <doko> Mithrandir: once pitti's package promotions are in the archive, we could open gutsy from my point of view; pitti is preparing texlive to be synced/merged, and I'm not aware of any other major breakage
[11:32] <pitti> right, but texlive-bin will keep my busy for a while still; the poppler patch needs some updating
[11:32] <pitti> working on it ATM
[11:33] <pitti> doko: well, I can also temporarily drop it completely, thus building against xpdf, and fix it up afterwards
[11:33] <doko> pitti: sounds like an option
[11:33] <pitti> but I would really like to have this in the archive before we open the floodgates, since it affects build-deps of many packages
[11:34] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: who's in charge of semi-auto sync-source runs this cycle? you?
[11:34] <doko> Mithrandir: ^^^
[11:38] <dholbach> doko: you introduced python-orca-brlapi - do you know how I can import it and try if it works?
[11:39] <doko> dholbach: just splitted out to a new binary package
[11:39] <doko> import orca.brl
[11:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'll be happy to do them.
[11:40] <Mithrandir> pitti: any idea about an ETA for it?
[11:40] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, I think I did it; it's at the debhelper stage
[11:41] <pitti> yay, it built
[11:41] <dholbach> doko: thanks a lot - works nicely (i tried orca.brlapi and orca.brlmodule which didn't work)
[11:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: so, let me give this at least a short local test before I sync and upload everything
[11:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: max one hour, I'd say until I have everything tested, uploaded and synced
[11:42] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: debhelper uploaded, will be in unapproved in a coupule of minutes
[11:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure, take your time.
[11:43] <doko> Mithrandir: please accept python-profiler, python-stdlib-extensions, python-defaults
[11:44] <Mithrandir> doko: accepted.
[11:46] <doko> pitti: hrm, forgot about to ask for the promotion of libmx4j-java
[11:46] <pitti> doko: done
[11:50] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: debhelper in unapproved, please accept
[11:51] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: accepted.
[11:51] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'm happy with people accepting their own toolchain-y packages until we just open fully.
[11:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: alright, basic test works well
[11:54] <Mithrandir> pitti: feel free to upload, then.
[11:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: nod
[11:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, I'll do the uploads and syncs now and will care for the binary NEW stuff
[11:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: just remember that syncs don't go to unapproved, so don't sync anything which needs the new bits.
[11:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: I need to sync tex-common and texlive-{base,doc,extra,lang}, and upload texlive-bin
[11:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: and promote all those to main
[11:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure.
[11:56] <pitti> I'll remove tetex later
[11:57] <seb128> carlos: around?
[11:57] <pitti> they do have some mutual build deps, but they should resolve themselves, I think
[11:57] <carlos> seb128: yes
[11:57] <seb128> carlos: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/epiphany-extensions/+pots/epiphany-extensions-2.17 has an incorrect translations domain, do you know why?
[11:57] <seb128> carlos: the package template is correctly named -2.18
[11:58] <Mithrandir> hm, beta should really redirect people who don't have beta membership to the regular one.
[11:58] <seb128> carlos: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+sources/epiphany-extensions/+translate rather
[11:58] <seb128> Mithrandir: yes, there is a bug open about that
[11:58] <carlos> seb128: I guess I forget to fix that once the translation domain changed
[11:58] <carlos> I will fix it now
[11:58] <pitti> elmo: tetex-bin is in main but its source (texlive-base) is not.
[11:58] <pitti> erk
[11:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^ maybe I need a publisher run before the syncs to have my change-override things become active
[11:59] <seb128> carlos: thank you
[11:59] <carlos> seb128: done
[11:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: you do.
[11:59] <seb128> carlos: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/110030
[11:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110030 in rosetta "epiphany extensions textdomain is wrong" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:00] <seb128> carlos: you can close it ;)
[12:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^ that did the trick
[12:00] <Mithrandir> oh, that too
[12:01] <carlos> seb128: it will require a language pack update to get it deployed
[12:01] <seb128> carlos: right
[12:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: texlive-bin should be in unapproved; it needs the new tex-common as a build-dep, so it will just go into dep-wait; the other packages that I sync have harmless build-deps (just debhelper and quilt)
[12:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: feel free to accept them, then.
[12:08] <pitti> will do
[12:09] <pitti> accepted
[12:18] <pitti> Mithrandir, doko: texlive-bin uploaded, the other texlive stuff synced, all in accepted now; after the next publisher run in 45 minutes the buildds can have fun
[12:18] <Mithrandir> coolie.
[12:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: once it's built, you're happy with opening for general development?
[12:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: I am, yay :)
[12:19] <Mithrandir> coolie
[12:22] <pitti> Mithrandir, doko: do we need to urgently care for gcc-4.2 in NEW?
[12:23] <doko> pitti: hmm, isn't that already in the archive?
[12:23] <pitti> doko: source apparently is, but there is lots of binary NEW
[12:24] <doko> pitti: well, get it in now, doesn't hurt
[12:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: well, since you're volunteering.. :-)
[12:24] <pitti> alrighty
[12:37] <pitti> gcc-4.2 accepted
[12:43] <ogra> is there a way to make debootstrap run localized ? 
[12:44] <ogra> somehow i always get non german output with it ... 
[12:44] <ogra> or does it do that only in debian-installer mode ? 
[12:58] <cjwatson> ogra: the localisation's handled by base-installer
[12:58] <fabbione> Keybuk: ping?
[12:59] <cjwatson> ogra: debootstrap has no other i18n itself
[12:59] <ogra> cjwatson, ah, what i suspected ...
[01:08] <Keybuk> fabbione: was in a conf call, what's up?
[01:08] <fabbione> Keybuk: i mailed distro-team.. nothing urgent.. there is a clash in the meeting schedule
[01:08] <fabbione> Keybuk: since you usually arrange that, i thought you might want to know :)
[01:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: fridge calendar has not been updated with our new meeting time and MOTU booked #u-meeting at the same time as us
[01:12] <Keybuk> yeah, we can either claim eminent domain and kick them out to another channel
[01:12] <Keybuk> or move it to another channel ourselves
[01:12] <Keybuk> that's no problem
[01:12] <ajmitch> what time is distro team meeting? 2000 UTC?
[01:13] <fabbione> Keybuk: yeah i suggest the latter and get the fridge fixed
[01:13] <Keybuk> our meeting times have been a standard schedule, it's the fridge fault for not having them
[01:13] <Mithrandir> the fridge has been broken like that since DST hit, though.
[01:13] <Keybuk> ajmitch: alternates between 1500UTC and 2000UTC during "northern" summer, 1600UTC and 2100UTC winter
[01:14] <Keybuk> yes, and people have been asked to tell them repeatedly
[01:15] <fabbione> cya later for the meeting
[01:29] <ion_> An Ubuntu pun at ELER.
[01:30] <cjwatson> Keybuk: in fact I'm sure we told one of the fridge editors directly at one point and he said he would fix it
[01:30] <cjwatson> since DST hit
[01:31] <Keybuk> I've told them myself, I think henrik has too
[02:00] <pygi> siretart, released, will package everything in the coming days
[02:01] <siretart> pygi: the packaging is already done, AFAIK. it just needs updating to your latest release, and uploading to gutsy. I'll handle that
[02:01] <pygi> siretart, ah, ok, if you say so
[02:02] <siretart> pygi: no. just normal ubuntu maintainer's tasks.
[02:02] <siretart> pygi: but say, do you intend to stay with soname 3 or 4?
[02:02] <pygi> siretart, 4
[02:02] <siretart> k
[02:02] <pygi> 0.3.4 was soname 2, 0.3.0 soname 3, and 0.3.4 was 4
[02:02] <pygi> 0.3.6 now is also 4
[02:06] <pygi> siretart, did we also put that cdrskin when installed, is used instead of cdrecord/wodim?
[02:06] <pygi> (when the packages were done)
[02:07] <pygi> or shall I do it? (I don't mind, it's my task anyway :P)
[02:09] <seb128> pygi: hi
[02:09] <pygi> hi seb128 :) How is it going?
[02:09] <seb128> good, thank you
[02:09] <pygi> glad to hear :)
[02:09] <seb128> do you know what unit storage.cdrom.write_speeds uses?
[02:10] <pygi> where did you found that?
[02:10] <seb128> hal
[02:10] <pygi> well, it should use the first found AFAIK
[02:11] <seb128> nautilus-cd-burner uses that list / 150 to list writing speeds
[02:11] <pygi> plus hal is currently broken in the respect of detecting possible write_speeds
[02:11] <seb128> which gives weird speeds
[02:11] <pygi> there's a patch at bugzilla that was worked on by brasero team
[02:11] <seb128> pygi: do you have a bug number?
[02:11] <pygi> we introduced small scsi library in brasero to get-around hal and n-c-b (which will probably get dropped at due time)
[02:12] <pygi> seb128, not really, but lemme see if Luis is here
[02:12] <seb128> why don't you want to use it?
[02:12] <seb128> or you speak about the lib?
[02:12] <pygi> what's the point of using n-c-b? All it was used so far were some tiny things which we can drop
[02:12] <pygi> plus it's all hacky :-/
[02:13] <seb128> bug #67034
[02:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 67034 in hal "available speeds are wrong" [Low,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67034
[02:13] <seb128> that's the bug, looks like hal has weird values
[02:13] <seb128>   storage.cdrom.write_speeds = {'8467', '7056', '5645', '4234', '2822', '2117'} (string list)
[02:13] <pygi> I'm going to package brasero n the coming days, so you'll see how it works
[02:14] <pygi> yea, I know
[02:14] <seb128> it that an hal bug? or due to linux? or correct values?
[02:14] <pygi> seb128, hal bug
[02:15] <pygi> it can be fixed
[02:15] <seb128> cool
[02:15] <pygi> seb128, see this for example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/80460
[02:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 80460 in brasero "Brasero speed burning doesn't work" [Undecided,Needs info]  
[02:15] <pygi> also cause by hal
[02:15] <seb128> I reassigned to nautilus-cd-burner to hal, was not sure if that was the right component though
[02:15] <pygi> it is
[02:15] <seb128> cool, thank you
[02:15] <pygi> as I said, there's a patch, I hope they'll apply it soon
[02:16] <pygi> now, why won't we use n-c-b in there ... 
[02:16] <pygi> since brasero supports both cdrecord and libburn, and n-c-b is only cdrecord (+ is hacky + has a lot of problems) the new little scsi lib to handle the speed detection and some other things was introduced
[02:17] <pygi> when packaging however, I'll need to pull additional patch from svn for that lib since the released was a bit unstable :-/
[02:17] <siretart> pygi: sorry, I was out of my room. I didn't get your  last question regarding cdrskin
[02:18] <pygi> siretart, well, have we already done the trick in the package which makes cdrecord and wodim just symlinks to cdrskin?
[02:19] <siretart> pygi: I'd rather not touch the cdrecord yet at this point
[02:19] <pygi> siretart, oh?
[02:19] <siretart> pygi: is there an urgent need to do so?
[02:20] <siretart> I'd rather fix applications to use 'cdrskin' instead of 'cdrecord'
[02:20] <pygi> siretart, no urgent need. So you'd patch all applications?
[02:20] <pygi> if so, then sure, no problem
[02:20] <pygi> I can do so without any problem
[02:21] <siretart> pygi: I don't want to rush decisions
[02:21] <pygi> siretart, ah, ok, so we'll need to talk more about that
[02:22] <ion_> How about /etc/alternatives?
[02:22] <pygi> I think we discussed that once, and dismissed it 
[02:22] <pygi> (me doesn't remember why tho)
[02:22] <pygi> seb128, question. How often do you communicate with n-c-b upstream?
[02:23] <seb128> I send a distro bug on bugzilla every now and then and that's about it
[02:24] <_blondy_> the best Spanish vidente visits his blog are very interesting rituals of love and many things but visitalo http://eltarotdesalem.blogspot.com/
[02:24] <siretart> debian alternatives sounds like a good options, I'd like to hear opinions from that from the debian cdrkit maintainers
[02:25] <pygi> seb128, ah, ok. They do not respond to my bug report, neither I got a response through mail on the questions sent :-/
[02:25] <pygi> siretart, ah, ok. If you ever come to conclusion, please do inform me as I have to do something :)
[02:26] <siretart> sure
[02:26] <pygi> like updating packagin, testing, calling for testing, patching stuff, and things like that :)
[02:27] <pygi> seb128, are you willing to do a little test with n-c-b for me?
[02:27] <seb128> pygi: which one?
[02:28] <pygi> seb128, to try to install newest libburn/cdrskin, and make wodim/cdrecord (whatever you use) link to it
[02:28] <pygi> then n-c-b should use cdrskin, and if things are good, it should probably show correct speeds
[02:28] <seb128> where is the new cdrskin?
[02:29] <pygi> seb128, sec
[02:29] <pygi> seb128, http://libburnia-download.pykix.org/releases/libburn-0.3.6.tar.gz
[02:32] <seb128> pygi: k, I'll give it a try later
[02:32] <pygi> seb128, sure, thank you
[02:36] <doko> pitti: texlive-base needs tex-common (>= 1.7)
[02:37] <Mithrandir> tex-common |        1.7 |         gutsy | source, all
[02:37] <Mithrandir> yes?
[02:38] <pitti> doko: ah, it just built
[02:38] <doko> Mithrandir: MANUALDEPWAIT needs a retry, correct?
[02:38] <doko> texlive-base
[02:39] <Mithrandir> texlive-base is BUILDING
[02:40] <pitti> most of the stuff shuold build really quickly, just -bin needs some 15 minutes or so
[02:40] <doko> hmm, wasn't two minutes ago
[02:40] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee!
[02:40] <pygi> hi Hobbsee :)
[02:40] <pitti> doko: let's crank together to make it faster :)
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir!
[02:42] <Hobbsee> heya pygi 
[02:43] <doko> Mithrandir: please accept python2.5, fixing the b-d on sparc and powerpc
[02:43] <Hobbsee> oh no, not more of that ubuntu metadistribution crack
[02:48] <pitti> great, -extra, -doc, -base, and -lang have built
[02:49] <thom> Hobbsee: what, it's only 30C now?
[02:49] <Hobbsee> thom: here?  no.
[02:49] <Hobbsee> it was about 20C here today
[02:49] <Hobbsee> is colder now, iirc
[02:49] <StevenK> It's 15C now
[02:50] <Hobbsee> ah, there you go
[02:50] <Nafallo> 25.6C
[02:50] <StevenK> And I'm cold too, for the record.
[02:50] <Nafallo> 26.1C inside
[02:50] <StevenK> Nafallo: Swap you, please? :-)
[02:51] <Nafallo> StevenK: baah. come visit me instead. I have a comfortable couch :-)
[02:51] <StevenK> Seems a little short notice. :-)
[02:51] <Nafallo> ;-)
[02:52] <Nafallo> well. I don't think the weather will be bad in the coming week or so ;-)
[02:52] <Nafallo> should be enough time ;-)
[02:52] <StevenK> .au -> .se is quite far, too
[02:52] <Nafallo> yea. like 24h flight or something :-P
[02:53] <Nafallo> might be more.
[02:53] <ion_> C (coulomb) = A s, btw. ;-)
[02:53] <StevenK> It was 25h or so when I went to .fi
[02:54] <Nafallo> I wonder what route they would take... probably via Heathrow :-)
[02:54] <StevenK> .fi I went Singapore, Bangkok, and then Helsinki
[02:54] <Nafallo> they peer with Arlanda. and then ~1h train from Arlanda.
[02:56] <Mithrandir> or just sydney, malaysia, amsterdam, stockholm
[02:56] <Nafallo> that almost sounds like my IPv6 routes to .id ;-)
[02:56] <StevenK> This is all academic anyway. I'm not flying to .se, even due to Nafallo's offer. :-)
[02:57] <ion_> nafallo: ~1h train? Quite a bit of latency. :-)
[02:57] <Hobbsee> StevenK: fly to seville instead.
[02:57] <Nafallo> StevenK: :-)
[02:57] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: put him in your luggage
[02:57] <StevenK> If I could afford it, I would.
[02:57] <Nafallo> ion_: yea. but I have no place for a DC10 on my roof ;-)
[02:57] <StevenK> Mithrandir: A little cramped...
[02:57] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: if he'd fit...
[02:57] <StevenK> Besides, you only get 20kg allowance, and I'm a little more than that.
[02:57] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: he's tall, but not that heavy.
[02:58] <Hobbsee> hrm...
[02:58] <Nafallo> oh. my routing to .id was a bit different btw :-)
[02:58] <Mithrandir> StevenK: she'll just cut off unimportant bits.
[02:58] <StevenK> Mithrandir: OUCH!
[02:58] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Think very carefully. :-P
[02:58] <Hobbsee> hrm...
[02:59] <Nafallo> http://home.nafallo.info/tracepath/2007-04-26.txt
[02:59] <Nafallo> :-)
[03:01] <StevenK> Mithrandir: I'm sure Canonical could organise a crate for me to fly in at least. :-P
[03:06] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Give it a change to actually have some changes besides the toolchain? :-)
[03:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, texlive-bin FTBFSed on ia64 (only) with cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libcairo.la'
[03:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: how much do we care about ia64 being in sync at that time?
[03:08] <infinity> Are we on an eliminate .la files warpath?
[03:09] <infinity> If so, it's really hard to go back and fix one arch if the chain gets too deep.
[03:09] <pitti> I'm not sure, it built fine on the other arches
[03:10] <ogra> wow, where does that xorgconf.py in restricted-manager come from ? thats cool
[03:10] <infinity> (The official answer, though, is "we don't care about ia64 unless the fix is obvious and doesn't eat too much of your time")
[03:10] <pitti> ogra: from kdeguidance
[03:10] <ogra> ah
[03:10] <pitti> ogra: I should have mentioned it in copyright
[03:11] <ogra> i wonder if i could speed up ltsp with it ... 
[03:11] <pitti> ogra: slightly adapted to match our Xorg.conf spacing style
[03:11] <ogra> instead of presseding half the word just modifying the default generated file ...
[03:11] <pitti> ogra: perhaps; I gave up on relying on xserver-xorg debconf, it broke too much stuff
[03:11] <ogra> *world
[03:11] <Riddell> pitti: interesting, didn't know that.  presumably separate from mvo, and glatzor's use of it?
[03:12] <seb128> infinity: GNOME packages are in good way to kick them
[03:12] <ogra> generating xorg.conf is one of the biggest slowdown factors i have aside from udev/kernel module loading in ltsp
[03:12] <pitti> Riddell: oh, I might have mixed that up with displayconfig-gtk, which in turn stole it from kdeguidance
[03:12] <ogra> heh
[03:12] <ogra> yay opensource
[03:12] <seb128> infinity: they use /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/clean-la.mk which empty the dependency_libs, next round is to stop distributing them ;)
[03:18] <jsgotangco> hey rodarvus
[03:18] <rodarvus> hey jsgotangco :)
[03:18] <Hobbsee> hi rodarvus 
[03:18] <Hobbsee> hi spam
[03:18] <pitti> rodarvus! long time no see
[03:18] <rodarvus> hi Hobbsee, pitti!
[03:18] <rodarvus> pitti, indeed :)
[03:18] <jsgotangco> Hobbsee: nospam!
[03:18] <rodarvus> been a while since I've been able to join #ubuntu-devel
[03:19] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: no spam?  but spam is fun!
[03:19] <mvo_> ogra, pitti: please do not copy it (again), for gusty we get a package something from kdeguidance (at least that is planed)
[03:19] <mvo_> hey rodarvus!
[03:19] <rodarvus> (and somehow contribute something to ubuntu)
[03:19] <rodarvus> mvo_!
[03:19] <pitti> mvo_: that would be cool; I'll move my spacing fixes there
[03:20] <ogra> mvo_, i just discovered it, i'm not sure yet it helps me in ltsp ... since dpkg-reconfigure has to run in any case ...
[03:20] <ogra> i'd just get rid of one debconf-communicate call ... 
[03:20] <mvo_> Riddell: we use the code from kdeguidance in displayconfig-gtk, but we talked with upstream aobut it and there is  a plan to unify it all again and move back into a common binary-package
[03:24] <Riddell> mvo_: yes, saw the e-mails
[03:25] <Mithrandir> infinity: we hate .la files, yes.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: does texlive-bin generate any libraries?
[03:26] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, it doesn't
[03:26] <Mithrandir> then we don't care.
[03:26] <pitti> hm, I wonder why it doesn't build libkpathsea
[03:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: I made a note about this; eventually libkpathsea should be built from texlive-bin, so that we can remove tetex-bin, but right now it doesn't
[03:29] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, it might mean that a lot of packages will FTBFS on ia64 due to missing tex build deps
[03:31] <pitti> I'll look into that right after finishing this php USN stuff
[03:32] <xxxxx1> hi all.
[03:32] <xxxxx1> someone here have hardware with tpm support?
[03:32] <Seveas> yeah
[03:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: cheers.
[03:33] <Seveas> it's switched off though :)
[03:33] <xxxxx1> i'm working on tpm packages for gutsy
[03:33] <Mithrandir> seb128: why does libcairo include .la files?
[03:33] <xxxxx1> if someone have suggestions i'll appreciate
[03:33] <xxxxx1> for now i'm working on opencryptoki to enable tpm support on firefox
[03:34] <seb128> Mithrandir: because of libtool ship them if you don't tell it to not?
[03:35] <seb128> Mithrandir: I can make libcairo use clean-la.mk if you want ;)
[03:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: we'd want to clean them out in the right order, but yes, I think we'd want that.
[03:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: clean-la.mk empty the dependency_libs so when other packages are rebuild they drop the depends on it and later we can stop shipping it
[03:44] <pitti> oh, since when the scroll wheel works in terminal apps, such as vim?
[03:44] <seb128> so there is no "right order"
[03:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: go for it, then.
[03:44] <seb128> pitti: I think that's a vte change done just before feisty
[03:44] <pitti> cool
[03:45] <pitti> meh, I removed the cairo .la file locally, and texlive-bin builds fine
[03:45] <seb128> pitti: grep libcairo.la /usr/lib/*.la on the box getting the bug
[03:45] <pitti> seb128: the box -> buildd
[03:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: iz ia64 box.  Somehow I doubt pitti has it at home.
[03:46] <seb128> pitti: ssh to an ia64 chroot then if there is one
[03:46] <seb128> that's likely not specific to the buildd but to the arch
[03:46] <Mithrandir> or just download the .deb from the archive and extract it. :-P
[03:46] <seb128> what deb?
[03:46] <seb128> every depends shipping a .la? ;)
[03:46] <Mithrandir> the libcairoN_ia64.deb ?
[03:47] <pitti> it must be an rdepends of libcairo, not libcairo itself, right?
[03:47] <seb128> ah, right
[03:47] <Mithrandir> ah, point.
[03:47] <Mithrandir> so a rdepends of libcairo-dev shipping .la files.
[03:47] <Mithrandir> can't be that many
[03:47] <Mithrandir> could be indirect though
[03:47] <seb128> no
[03:48] <seb128> a Build-Depends of texlive-bin
[03:48] <seb128> or anything installed while building it
[03:48] <seb128> that's not only the libcairo-dev rdepends
[03:48] <Mithrandir> point.
[03:49] <infinity> Not really much of a point.
[03:49] <seb128> that's likely something with a .la mentionning libcairo.la and no Depends on libcairo-dev
[03:49] <infinity> Anything that isn't a libcairo rdep but mentione cairo's .la is VERY broken.
[03:49] <seb128> the easier is really to grep libcairo.la /usr/lib/*.la
[03:49] <seb128> infinity: well, we are trying to figure what is broken
[03:49] <infinity> (But yes, grepping the chroot is the winner here.. Too bad all the ia64 boxes I have access to just fell off the planet)
[03:50] <pitti> seb128: no DC ATM, so no porter's box :/
[03:50] <seb128> pitti: that doesn't make the job easy :/
[03:52] <Treenaks> pitti: Didn't anyone tell you?
[03:52] <pitti> Treenaks: Klingons? Vogons? a bypass?
[03:53] <Treenaks> pitti: The Russians?
[03:53] <Keybuk> err, where did the DC go?
[03:54] <pitti> someone stepped on the wire? the charlaidy pulling out the server chord while vacuuming?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> ah well
[03:54] <Mithrandir> 15:42 < Ng> there is a general issue at the moment with the data centre. sysadmin strike ninjas are en route
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ^^
[03:54] <Keybuk> "general issue"? :)
[03:54] <Keybuk> ah yes
[03:54] <Keybuk> "oops"
[03:54] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:55] <thom> "someone broke the fibre"
[03:55] <infinity> Backhoe incident?
[03:55] <infinity> Nuclear strike?  Does anyone in London feel warm?  Have you lost any hair in the last 20 minutes?
[03:56] <thom> infinity: if someone managed to backhoe L3 they're using a large nuclear weapon
[03:56] <thom> huh, jinx :-)
[03:57] <ogra> heh
[03:58] <Keybuk> I remember that "routeing failure" translated to "Engineer rebooted the wrong router"
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya
[04:01] <jussi01> Hello!!
[04:02] <Keybuk> hello
[04:03] <bddebian> Heya jussi01, Keybuk
[04:03] <jussi01> the Motu's directed me this way, so Ill pop up my question and hope someone answers. So, I have a program Im packaging, and it has 2 parts. 1. the front end, gui part, and 2. the binary backend (1 file) can I include this binary file in the source code for multiverse? 
[04:04] <Keybuk> jussi01: unable to provide an answer.  What is the licence for that binary part, and what is the licence for the source code?
[04:04] <jussi01> the licence for the source part is the gpl, binary is freeware
[04:05] <infinity> Does the GPL source bit include an exception for linking against the nonfree bit?
[04:05] <infinity> (Or do they not link?)
[04:05] <Keybuk> "freeware" ?
[04:06] <jussi01> Hmmm, Im not exactly sure
[04:06] <jono> Keybuk: has London gone down do you know?
[04:06] <infinity> jono: ninjas en route.
[04:06] <cjwatson> jono: yes, Cambridge is now the capital of England
[04:06] <Robot101> bwahahaha
[04:06] <Nafallo> lol
[04:06] <jono> hehe
[04:06] <jsgotangco> haha
[04:06] <mc44> quick, lets build a tube system in Cambridge :)
[04:06] <Keybuk> jono: yes, see BBC News; terrorist attack
[04:07] <Keybuk> (note: joke)
[04:07] <jussi01> http://lianwei3.googlepages.com/home2 is the program
[04:07] <jono> Keybuk: haha, rough
[04:07] <Robot101> s/mr/mbr/
[04:07] <jono> jees, everything seems to be gone
[04:07] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:07] <jono> looks like Ng tripped over a cable and pulled a plug out
[04:08] <Keybuk> "when in doubt, blame Ng"
[04:08] <cjwatson> snares# ifdown eth0 # oh bugger
[04:09] <Nafallo> I think they just wanted to know the reaction :-)
[04:09] <Keybuk> cjwatson: at least Ng is in London when he does that
[04:09] <Keybuk> "...Mark, can I borrow your yet?"
[04:09] <mc44> Keybuk: who was on lug radio talking about how these why things dont happen :)
[04:09] <Nafallo> hehe
[04:14] <Keybuk> mc44: must listen to Lug Radio sometime
[04:15] <cjwatson> Keybuk: the archive's still frozen
[04:15] <cjwatson> unless somebody unfroze it while the DC was down :P
[04:16] <Keybuk> err, I didn't actually mean to remove that
[04:16] <Keybuk> oops :)
[04:16] <Keybuk> mc44: any particularly good episodes to listen to? there seems to be a lot <g>
[04:17] <mc44> Keybuk: well the latest one has some expert advice from a sysadmin :)
[04:17] <Nafallo> Keybuk: start with s1e1 and continue listening until jono dies a terrible death :-)
[04:18] <Keybuk> Nafallo: I tried that last time, and got to something called the "Marketing Special"
[04:18] <jsgotangco> like not trip on fibre?
[04:18] <Keybuk> which nobody warned me about
[04:18] <Keybuk> seriously, that thing is a health risk!
[04:18] <Keybuk> and I've been too scared to listen to any more
[04:18] <Nafallo> Keybuk: :-)
[04:18] <mc44> Keybuk: not even the one with you on? :p
[04:19] <Keybuk> mc44: listening to that would be just strange
[04:21] <Keybuk> plus I'll always know that the first version of one of the segments was so much better than the version that got to the recording
[04:21] <Keybuk> (which was after jono learned how to switch microphones on)
[04:21] <jono> Keybuk: oi :P
[04:22] <Nafallo> ROTFL!
[04:22] <Keybuk> jono: you know that Pia made me sing the song when she picked us up from Sydney airport? :p
[04:22] <Keybuk> ooh, yttrium is back online
[04:22] <jono> Keybuk: haha
[04:23] <jono> brb
[04:23] <Keybuk> mc44: I came to the conclusion that LugRadio is better to participate in than listen to :p
[04:23] <Nafallo> jono: wb :-)
[04:23] <Keybuk> Nafallo: yttrium is the office
[04:24] <mc44> Keybuk: if you can survive jono's house, presumably
[04:24] <Nafallo> Keybuk: archive isn't? :-)
[04:24] <jono> Keybuk: still seems down here
[04:24] <seb128> Nafallo: works here
[04:24] <thom> but the office is point-to-pointed to l3, dunnit?
[04:24] <pitti> The authenticity of host 'chinstrap.ubuntu.com (82.211.81.135)' can't be established.
[04:24] <pitti> wtf?
[04:24] <Nafallo> seb128: same here :-)
[04:24] <Keybuk> heh, that reminds me of something that never reached the Quotes page
[04:25] <Keybuk> "fuck that's fast, do you have a direct link to the data centre or something?" ... "yes"
[04:25] <pitti> ah, back now
[04:25] <thom> heh
[04:25] <Spads> We are still working to bring things back on-line
[04:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: "direct link?  No, it goes through an FC switch."
[04:26] <Mithrandir> :-P
[04:27] <jono> Spads: its the irc server up yet?
[04:27] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it actually goes over the BT cloud
[04:27] <jono> Spads: seems down
[04:27] <Spads> jono: still down.  
[04:27] <jono> Spads: right
[04:27] <cjwatson> Keybuk: heh, was that me?
[04:28] <Hobbsee> jono: killed it.  bad jono.
[04:28] <jono> Hobbsee: heh
[04:29] <Keybuk> cjwatson: might have been, I forget who it actually was
[04:29] <Keybuk> Spads: power failure?
[04:29] <Spads> Keybuk: Yes.
[04:29] <Keybuk> isn't that supposed to be infinitely improbable of happening? :p
[04:29] <mc44> Keybuk: thats "tripped over plug" right?
[04:31] <ogra> intrestingly the mailservers seem to deliver stuff 
[04:32] <ogra> i got ML mails all the time
[04:32] <infinity> ogra: It's all coming back slowly.
[04:33] <pitti> yay IRC!
[04:40] <ScottK> pitti: I got a large pile of binary reject notifications for the security uploads for Bug #107628.  Is there anything I need to do to get that fixed?
[04:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
[04:40] <pitti> ScottK: hm, weird; I just checked the source pacakges, are the binaries in the archive?
[04:41] <ScottK> pitti: All but AMD64 say need building.
[04:41] <ScottK> AMD64 I got an accept for.
[04:42] <pitti> indeed i only see amd64 binaries
[04:42] <pitti> ScottK: hm, that's weird, I had changes files for all architectures
[04:43] <ScottK> pitti: And I know it builds on at least i386 because that's what I did my test builds on in pbuilder....
[04:44] <pitti> ScottK: right, jackass also has all the .debs in the archive
[04:44] <pitti> they just failed on the way to launchpad and thus archive.u.c.
[04:47] <pitti> ScottK: crap, this also affected the rdesktop USN
[04:48] <ScottK> pitti: Sounds like you have your hands full for a bit.  Good luck.
[04:48] <pitti> ScottK: thanks for pointing out, investigating
[04:48] <pitti> ScottK: can you please put that mail online?
[04:49] <pitti> ScottK: or forward it to martin.pitt@ubuntu.com?
[04:50] <ScottK> pitti: The rejection messages I got?
[04:50] <pitti> yes, please
[04:50] <ScottK> I'll forward them to you.
[04:52] <pitti> ScottK: got it, thanks
[04:53] <ScottK> pitti: I've sent them all now in two e-mails.
[04:53] <pitti> ScottK: they all seem to be similar
[04:54] <ScottK> Yes.  Identical except for which arch or version (Dapper/Edgy) to which they refer.
[05:00] <ScottK> pitti: One other thing that may or may not be relevant.  There was also an upload to dapper-proposed to make sure that the version there had the security fix too.  Fujitsu did the upload and it seems to have vanished entirely.
[05:01] <pitti>   lighttpd | 1.4.11-3ubuntu3.0.1 | dapper-security/universe | source, amd64
[05:01] <pitti>   lighttpd | 1.4.11-3ubuntu3.1 | dapper-proposed/universe | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[05:01] <pitti> ScottK: it's still there
[05:01] <ScottK> OK.  
[05:03] <ScottK> Odd as it was listed yesterday on my LP package maintenance report and it's not there now: https://launchpad.net/~kitterman/+packages - strange.
[05:04] <ScottK> I guess that's an artifact of having another Dapper upload to security that came after.
[05:04] <pitti> likely
[05:05] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks, just wanted to make sure you had any relevant facts.  Going back to lurking now...
[05:05] <pitti> ScottK: thanks for your help!
[05:06] <ScottK> pitti: Just noticed - The version that was uploaded yesterday was 3ubuntu3.2.  3.1 has been there since November.  So it is in fact missing.
[05:06] <ScottK> Still on my first cup of coffee...
[05:06] <pitti> ScottK: right, that one is still in unapproved
[05:07] <pitti>   192538 | S- | lighttpd             | 1.4.11-3ubuntu3.2    | 36 hours
[05:07] <ScottK> OK.  Who 'approves'?  Is the a MOTU SRU function?
[05:07] <pitti> I do usually
[05:07] <ScottK> OK.
[05:08] <pitti> every few days
[05:08] <pitti> I am on regular archive admin shift on Fridays, plus when someone pokes me about something urgent
[05:08] <ScottK> Sounds good then.  I don't think that's urgent as it's not just about to get out of proposed.  Thanks again.
[05:11] <el_ericho> Hi everybody, i'm trying to fix a bug, but i need some python orientation. 
[05:12] <el_ericho> This is the bug #109799
[05:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 109799 in bittornado "Bittornado preferences diaog doesn't save the new preferences" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109799
[05:17] <el_ericho> i'm analyzing the code and i found that in the function saveConfigs on ConfigReader.py, the new values of self.config aren't updated 
[05:17] <el_ericho> i'm not a python programmer, actually i'm a not a programmer, but i think that this could be a python problem.
[05:18] <el_ericho> I don't find differences between the edgy package and the feisty package and the original version. 
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> mmn.  Feisty+1 will run off 2.6.21 or better ... and 2.6.21 has dynticks, which allows for greater power savings.
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> Someone remind me to do some battery life tests on my laptop when that kernel goes into the dev branch.
[06:11] <Nafallo> bluefoxicy: i.e. later today hopefully. you might remember that yourself then ;-)
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> nafallo:  Gutsy is open already?
[06:11] <Nafallo> bluefoxicy: I run it :-)
[06:12] <cjwatson> it's still frozen for sorting out the toolchain, but nearly open
[06:12] <Nafallo> but no. freezed for the toolchain :-)
[06:12] <Nafallo> frozen. thanks :-9
[06:12] <Nafallo> :-9
[06:12] <Nafallo> GAAH
[06:12] <Nafallo> :-)
[06:13] <pochu> bluefoxicy: it will run 2.6.22, 99.99% (BenC words) :)
[06:14] <Nafallo> pochu: 2.6.21-1 seems to be todays upload though ;-)
[06:14] <pochu> cool :)
[06:14] <pochu> Nafallo: of course I mean for final, there's no 2.6.22 yet in kernel.org ;)
[06:14] <BenC> No, today's upload with be 2.6.22-1 (2.6.21 with SUBLEVEL override to save me some work later on)
[06:15] <Nafallo> :-)
[06:15] <cjwatson> that'll be confusing
[06:15] <BenC> cjwatson: I did the 2.6.19/2.6.20 thing for feisty, and it was even more confusing
[06:16] <BenC> basically, it's based on linux-2.6.git which is the 2.6.22 devel tree right now :)
[06:16] <Nafallo> so 21 will be 22. that should be easy to remember :-P
[06:16] <Nafallo> BenC: 23 will not be for feisty then? :-)
[06:17] <BenC> "We're so bleeding edgy, we release new kernels even before Linus!"
[06:17] <Nafallo> haha
[06:17] <BenC> err, edge
[06:19] <bluefoxicy> BenC:  are you enabling dynticks, or is that totally new infrastructure that can't be disabled :)
[06:19] <saispo> BenC: have you heard some problem with bcm43xx and bitrate under feisty ?
[06:19] <bluefoxicy> saispo:  bcm43xx needs FIRMWARE ;(
[06:19] <saispo> yes :/
[06:19] <BenC> bluefoxicy: NO_HZ is enabled for generic kernels
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> BenC:  lovely.
[06:20] <BenC> saispo: hell, I've experienced it :)
[06:20] <saispo> :)
[06:20] <BenC> saispo: the open source driver, due to being a reverse engineering project still in its infancy, has issues still
[06:21] <saispo> BenC: i have a 11 mbit/s bitrate on my desktop and on my laptop i have 54 mbit/s
[06:21] <BenC> one of them being trouble with distance to the AP (I couldn't move more than 20 feet from my AP)
[06:21] <BenC> saispo: connection quality may affect that
[06:21] <saispo> BenC: yep, but want to try, i remember under edgy, no problem...
[06:21] <saispo> and under Mandriva, no problem
[06:21] <BenC> saispo: Ah, we forced it to 11Mbit by default because I don't think 54 works at all
[06:22] <saispo> BenC: ok
[06:22] <saispo> how can i bypass this ?
[06:22] <BenC> in fact, on my ppc, it wouldn't do over 2mbit :/
[06:22] <saispo> :/
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> some open source firmware for that thing would get me hot
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> Firmware is an amazing thing.
[06:22] <BenC> saispo: iwconfig eth1 rate 54M
[06:22] <Nafallo> saispo: easy! plug a wire in :-)
[06:22] <Nafallo> better security aswell ;-)
[06:22] <saispo> Nafallo: yes, i really think about it :)
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> You can fine-tune the performance of the hardware itself, possibly even take a shitty device and make it a top-performing device.
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> Nintendo 64
[06:23] <saispo> BenC: i will try some test at 54 mbits, i will tell you if it's stable or not :)
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> One company rewrote the CPU microcode for the graphics controller, got it to output 3 times the polygons per second and everything looked infinitely better (nintendo banned them from using the modification), the original code was horribly profiled :)
[06:25] <saispo> BenC: it's possible to fix it permanently N
[06:25] <saispo> ?
[07:19] <yondie> hello guys just wondering is this there something wrong with my tee usage in this if...then...fi scripts?
[07:19] <yondie> http://rafb.net/p/v7lNKp52.html
[07:22] <Treenaks> tee writes to stdout.. and to a file you give it
[07:22] <Treenaks> redirecting like that twice won't work
[07:22] <Treenaks> afaik
[07:23] <yondie> Treenaks: if i type the command at line 5  in the terminal just like dat,, it works !!
[07:23] <yondie> Treenaks: it didn`t work when i use in if.then.fi
[07:23] <Treenaks> ah
[07:23] <Treenaks>  /bin/sh vs /bin/bash
[07:23] <Treenaks> you must be using a bash extension
[07:23] <Treenaks> also, please read the topic: this channel isn't about application development
[07:23] <yondie> i`m sorry
[07:24] <Treenaks> np, just pointing out ;)
[07:27] <ScottK> pitti: Looks like the lighttpd security updates made it out.  Thanks.
[07:28] <cjwatson> indeed, >(...) is a bash extension
[07:30] <yondie> cjwatson: any idea how to fixed it? i know it's offtopic
[07:32] <cjwatson> there should be channels around more appropriate for shell scripting questions
[07:32] <yondie> wokey
[07:51] <pochu> heno: https://beta.launchpad.net/~isotesting :)
[07:52] <heno> pochu: lovely :)
[07:52] <pochu> cool :)
[07:52] <pochu> the small one still needs some work, but I think they're pretty good
[07:58] <sn0> looks nice :) /me joins
[07:59] <pochu> sn0: :)
[08:04] <jcole> hey dudes
[08:05] <jcole> what's the best way to integrate a system configure shell script into the boot process (/etc/init.d) that starts before gdm and the other services with upstart?
[08:09] <Keybuk> same as with sysvinit
[08:45] <soothsay> Anybody know how to set up debarchiver on Ubuntu?
[09:08] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: why wait :)
[09:08] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: bring it on! :-D
[09:08] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: or wait until the first kernel has started building maybe? :-)
[09:16] <Goliath23> hi. it seems that 64bit ubuntu has a problem with LD_PRELOADing libaoss. is that a known bug? (if it'
[09:16] <Goliath23> s a bug)
[09:17] <Goliath23> no matter what program I try to run with oass I get: ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libaoss.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
[09:24] <pochu> do NEW packages get synced automatically?
[09:24] <Adri2000> yes
[09:24] <pochu> ok :)
[09:26] <sladen>  vvvvvvcccccccccccccccccccccccCccccccccccnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
[09:26] <kylem> very nice.
[09:26] <thom> uh, sladen
[09:27] <Treenaks> I think we'll have to kill his cat
[09:27] <sladen> oops, that was an Debian KDE ex-Maintainer's cat
[09:28] <sladen> maybe it'll be an ex-cat soon, though nchip might be disappointed
[09:30] <ogra> sladen, so he moved to be a debian gnome maintainer now ? 
[09:33] <Keybuk> pochu: no
[09:33] <pochu> Adri2000: ^
[09:33] <ogra> lol
[09:33] <Keybuk> pochu: nothing is synced automatically
[09:33] <ogra> who is spreading that ? :)
[09:34] <pochu> Keybuk: don't we automatically sync from debian at the beggining of the cycle?
[09:34] <Adri2000> pochu: eh, Keybuk syncs the NEW packages I believe :)
[09:34] <\sh> ogra, hehe...how's live, man :) btw..you are invited to karlsruhe, when I moved places with my GF in may :)
[09:34] <Adri2000> but I guess he syncs them all
[09:35] <Keybuk> nope
[09:35] <Keybuk> new in Debian are done individually
[09:35] <Keybuk> not en-masse
[09:35] <Treenaks> Keybuk: and 'the rest' of Debian?
[09:35] <ogra> \sh, busy as hell, if i dont sint on the lappie i'm renovating this huge house or care for the garden ... 
[09:35] <Keybuk> Treenaks: they're done mostly automatically by hand
[09:36] <ogra> \sh, i'll happily drop by if i'm in karlsruhe any time soon ... feel free to ping if you are in kassel :)
[09:36] <\sh> ogra, oh I think I'll have a trip to kassel after linuxtag then :)
[09:36] <Keybuk> ie. the automatic sync everything newer in Debian and unmodified in Ubuntu is run by hand every day by some poor sod
[09:36] <Keybuk> (previously me :p)
[09:37] <elmo> Keybuk: what kind of vetting do you do on NEW?
[09:37] <Keybuk> elmo: much
[09:37] <elmo> Keybuk: I use to pull it all in blind \o/
[09:37] <ogra> \sh, this year is documenta year ... lots of arts stuff going on here :)
[09:37] <ogra> http://documenta.de/
[09:37] <Keybuk> I pretty much treat new-from Debian as I would stuff in NEW, and looked at them individually
[09:37] <pochu> Mithrandir: there's no PPC port for xubuntu feisty final, though you did one for the beta. Could you please make it?
[09:38] <Keybuk> pochu: feisty has been released already
[09:38] <elmo> Keybuk: why bother?
[09:38] <\sh> ogra, I sponsor the beer :) greetings to Suse btw...
[09:38] <pochu> Keybuk: I know, but you still can run the publisher, or whatever you do, right? :)
[09:39] <Keybuk> elmo: because motu uploaded stuff by themselves under different names, or they broke our patches, or they were part of transitions that needed care, etc.
[09:39] <Keybuk> pochu: then it wouldn't be necessarily the same as the candidate at the time
[09:39] <elmo> Keybuk: *shrug* k (it's your time)
[09:39] <Keybuk> elmo: actually, I'm not doing it this time round ;)
[09:39] <Keybuk> (yay, having staff :p)
[09:40] <ogra> \sh, she sends greetings back to you :)
[09:40] <\sh> ogra, thx :)
[09:40] <pochu> Keybuk: I haven't said it would be ;) just that there's a precedent ;)
[09:41] <Mithrandir> pochu: has anybody actually tested the images?
[09:41] <pochu> the beta images?
[09:41] <Mithrandir> no
[09:41] <Mithrandir> the daily ones
[09:42] <pochu> let me see
[09:42] <ogra> Mithrandir, you havent yet ? man how are we ever supposed to get gutsy stable :P
[09:42] <ogra> oh, you are discussing xubuntu feisty, sorry i thought that was a gutsy question :)
[09:43] <pochu> ogra: anyway, feel free to test them :p
[09:45] <ogra> pochu, could do that on the weekend
[09:45] <ogra> but no promises, i'm not sure about my spare time ...
[09:47] <pochu> ogra: no worries, I'm looking whether it has already been tested or not
[09:47] <pochu> maybe you can just install the final release then ;)
[09:47] <ogra> i think ppc did generally not get as much testing this time 
[09:49] <pochu> maybe it has already been done :)
[09:50] <cjwatson> Keybuk: anything I saw in NEW with a Debian-style version number during the semiautosync period, I just shoved straight in
[09:50] <cjwatson> Keybuk: if I was feeling particularly diligent I might have checked that it actually came from Debian
[09:51] <ogra> oh, we have hal-info as separate package now ... 
[09:52] <pitti> ogra: yes, it was split upstream for easier maintenance and faster releasing
[09:52] <ogra> yeah, they were always moaning that we dot ship it when i asked for help in #hal :)
[09:52] <ogra> *dont
[09:52] <pitti> just because 0.5.8.1 still hadn't split it
[09:53] <ogra> yeah
[09:54] <seb128> dist-upgrade to gutsy, utch
[09:54] <seb128> After unpacking 481MB of additional disk space will be used.
[09:55] <pitti> seb128: wtf??
[09:55] <seb128> pitti: I blame all the tex*
[09:55] <seb128> 55 upgraded, 40 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[09:55] <seb128> Need to get 345MB of archives.
[09:55] <pitti> ah, right, my fault even :/
[09:55] <seb128> I can't do the update :(
[09:55] <Mithrandir> "auto"-sync is up to c now.
[09:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: yeah, if they reached our NEW, I'd already checked them -- I did it before sync'ing
[09:56] <seb128> my /usr has not enough space
[09:56] <seb128> grrr
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: it might help to uninstall tetex-extra
[09:56] <seb128> pitti: trying
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: then it doesn't pull in all that additional stuff you probably won't
[09:56] <pitti> need
[09:56] <LaserJock> pitti: have you merged texlive yet? or is gutsy even ready for that?
[09:56] <pitti> LaserJock: everything is in gutsy :)
[09:57] <seb128> pitti: After unpacking 93.2MB of additional disk space will be used.
[09:57] <seb128> much better ;)
[09:57] <pitti> better
[09:57] <cjwatson> Keybuk: from the point of view of somebody processing NEW, it wasn't certain whether they came from the sync process or were random uploads
[09:57] <seb128> pitti: how come than text require an extra 350M now?
[09:57] <seb128> s/text/tex
[09:57] <pitti> seb128: texlive is vastly bigger than tetex, and the transitional dependencies were designed to err on the safe side
[09:58] <pitti> seb128: i. e. not break people's TeX systems when they had tetex-{base,extra} before
[09:58] <seb128> hum, k
[09:58] <pitti> you can probably strip it down heavily
[09:58] <Keybuk> cjwatson: yes, I did try and do them at the same time, but sometimes forgot :)
[09:59] <LaserJock> pitti: is that going to cause .iso size issues?
[09:59] <pitti> LaserJock: I doubt it, TeX isn't on the CDs
[09:59] <pitti> at most libkpathsea
[09:59] <pitti> well, so I would think anyway
[09:59] <LaserJock> hmm, I thought -bin or -base was
[10:00] <pitti> LaserJock: no, just checked; only libkpathsea
[10:00] <LaserJock> ok, cool
[10:00] <LaserJock> TeX is an absolute beast when it comes to disk space
[10:01] <LaserJock> I did a svn checkout of the debian-tex-maint repo the other day
[10:01] <LaserJock> 22GB
[10:02] <geser> is texlive that big?
[10:02] <LaserJock> mdz: ping regarding ubuntu-tex mailing list
[10:03] <pitti> LaserJock: do you really think that this will be necessary?
[10:03] <LaserJock> geser: not exactly, they have copies of upstream releases for tetex and texlive
[10:03] <LaserJock> pitti: what? the ML?
[10:03] <pitti> yes
[10:03] <geser> LaserJock: have we already have a package list for which ubuntu-tex should be a bug contact?
[10:04] <mdz> LaserJock: dev team meeting in progress
[10:04] <ajmitch> morning
[10:04] <LaserJock> well, I've got 12 members in ~ubuntu-tex 
[10:04] <LaserJock> and I wanted to set up a ML for bug contacts
[10:04] <LaserJock> mdz: sorry
[10:05] <LaserJock> I could be just me, but I find it difficult to coordinate anything without a mailing list
[10:06] <mdz> LaserJock: you are quite welcome to use ubuntu-devel to coordinate, your participation will be welcome!
[10:06] <geser> LaserJock: wasn't it suggested to use the ubuntu-devel ml for coordination? until we generate to much traffic
[10:07] <LaserJock> alright then
[10:10] <popey> bug 110361 :( :( :(
[10:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110361 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "New feisty 64bit install causes nvidia card failure" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110361
[10:11] <seb128> ogra: gnome-screensaver 2.19.1 is available
[10:11] <seb128> 2.19.1.1 rather
[10:12] <ogra> seb128, do we ship it through -updates ?
[10:12] <siretart> ogra: err, huh?
[10:12] <seb128> no, it's 2.19
[10:12] <seb128> even number is unstable cycle
[10:12] <siretart> ogra: you mean 'sauerbraten'?
[10:12] <ogra> oh, indeed .. heh sorry, had a long day
[10:12] <seb128> ogra: that's new cycle starting, to upload to gutsy ;)
[10:12] <ogra> siretart, yeah
[10:13] <pitti> ogra: oh, that was from a sync request in feisty times
[10:13] <siretart> ogra: that was no upload, but a sync request, which was actually requested for feisty
[10:13] <ogra> heh
[10:14] <ajmitch> ogra: does that mean you won't get any work done for a few days? :)P
 me also, I have mvo, fabbione and tfheen yet to go
[10:15] <fabbione> Keybuk: ^^^ phone call tomorrow?
[10:15] <ogra> ajmitch, i didnt plan to play it ... the name is just weird :)
[10:15] <Keybuk> fabbione: I'm doing it by e-mail, since I'm running up oxford street with work right now
[10:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok
[10:16] <Keybuk> and I'm away all next week :-/
[10:16] <fabbione> fun
[10:18] <Keybuk> aye
[10:18] <Keybuk> yay tech tour
[10:18] <fabbione> yeah i know
[10:25] <jcole> Keybuk: thanks
[10:26] <Keybuk> jcole: for?
[10:26] <jcole> Goliath23: try to rebuild it
[10:26] <Goliath23> jcole: what?
[10:26] <Goliath23> teamspeak? aoss? wine?
[10:26] <psusi> if I'm fixing a bug in a package and there is a newer version availible from the upstream source, but not debian, should I update to the upstream version?
[10:27] <jcole> (11:05:26 AM) jcole: what's the best way to integrate a system configure shell script into the boot process (/etc/init.d) that starts before gdm and the other services with upstart?
[10:27] <jcole> (11:09:05 AM) Keybuk: same as with sysvinit
[10:27] <jcole> Goliath23: aoss
[10:27] <Nafallo> Keybuk: are you going to convert the world to upstart this cycle? :-)
[10:27] <Goliath23> jcole: reinstall or rebuild?
[10:27] <pitti> psusi: please first merge with Debian, then update to new upstream
[10:27] <pitti> psusi: avoids lots of mess in the next merge step
[10:27] <Keybuk> Nafallo: :-)
[10:28] <ogra> Nafallo, ++
[10:28] <jcole> Goliath23: i don't know why, but sometimes when i rebuild a package natively on amd64 it works "better"
[10:28] <Nafallo> Keybuk: in that case, gimme a handson with one script so I can help you with the rest of them :-)
[10:28] <Goliath23> jcole: I think its just that the installed 64 bit ld.so can not preload 32 bit libraries.
[10:29] <Goliath23> I probably wait for teamspeak3 using alsa, then I don't have to fiddle around with aoss
[10:29] <Keybuk> Nafallo: see latest mail from me on upstart-devel ;)
[10:29] <Goliath23> and preload "hacks" :)
[10:29] <Keybuk> help solve that problem and it's easy
[10:29] <Nafallo> Keybuk: so I should sign up then? :-)
[10:29] <psusi> pitti: getting the changes into debian can take months or never though ;(
[10:29] <psusi> pitti: and our package already has deviated from the debian version
[10:29] <tarzeau> anyone wants to try a new game?
[10:30] <pitti> psusi: right, but from the merging POV it's still better to merge first and then upgrade
[10:30] <tarzeau> http://gnu.ethz.ch/debian/yap/yetanotherpacman_1.11-1_i386.deb
[10:30] <Keybuk> Nafallo: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/upstart-devel/2007-April/000363.html
[10:30] <pitti> tarzeau: 'pacman' ... 'new'
[10:30] <tarzeau> pitti: yep, pretty nice
[10:32] <Nafallo> Keybuk: I'll grab the whole archive and convert it to maildir instead :-)
[10:33] <Goliath23> jcole: If I wanted to recompile the package that contains aoss, where could I read how to do that?
[10:33] <fabbione> tarzeau: best flight simulator EVAR http://www.ioccc.org/1998/banks.c
[10:33] <Goliath23> I guess I'd have to install the source package and run some dpkg commands?
[10:34] <tarzeau> fabbione: haha
[10:35] <tarzeau> pitti: new is new, and modern is different
[10:36] <pitti> tarzeau: just joking :)
[10:36] <Goliath23> fabbione: doesn't compile! :)
[10:36] <Keybuk> Nafallo: so, any ideas? :p
[10:37] <tarzeau> Goliath23: same here
[10:37] <fabbione> Goliath23: file a bug
[10:37] <Goliath23> m.c:6: Fehler: dt ist hier nicht deklariert (nicht in einer Funktion)
[10:37] <Goliath23> hehe
[10:37] <fabbione> Goliath23: that's locales fault..
[10:42] <jcole> Goliath23: apt-get source alsa-oss
[10:42] <ogra> bryce, apt-cache rdepends xresprobe ...
[10:42] <ogra> its a binary dep of xserver-xorg
[10:42] <jcole> Goliath23: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/20
[10:42] <Nafallo> Keybuk: that needs a good nights dreaming to find an answer to ;-)
[10:42] <cjwatson> ogra: can I answer please?
[10:43] <ogra> cjwatson, indeed
[10:43] <seb128> ogra: no it's not
[10:43] <Nafallo> s/to/too/
[10:43] <cjwatson> bryce: ogra is mistaken here, it's only a Recommends
[10:43] <ogra> oh, sorry
[10:44] <cjwatson> bryce: so, the background is that we put it in the 'ship' seed (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement) so that it was possible to remove it after installation to avoid cruft
[10:44] <bryce> ahh
[10:44] <cjwatson> bryce: (at the time we didn't have any other mechanism to have stuff installed by default but removable; Recommends in ubuntu-desktop is a recent innovation)
[10:44] <cjwatson> bryce: an installer component explicitly arranged for it to be installed if you were installing the desktop
[10:45] <bryce> cool, ok I was just concerned if there was an incompatibility or some such
[10:45] <cjwatson> at the time, it had to be unpacked *and configured* (which is unusual) before X was even installed, so this wasn't an extra hardship
[10:45] <doko> pitti, Mithrandir: is texlive ready?
[10:45] <pitti> doko: yes, it is
[10:45] <cjwatson> bryce: but that was all in the alternate installer, and this was back before the desktop installer was implemented
[10:45] <fabbione> doko: upgrading now
[10:45] <Goliath23> jcole: thanks
[10:45] <pitti> doko: we stalled the opening of gutsy until it was
[10:45] <doko> ok, because python2.5 did fail to build, looking at it now
[10:46] <fabbione> sparc exploded...
[10:46] <cjwatson> bryce: I have a suspicion, though haven't verified, that the desktop installer never installed xresprobe on the target system
[10:46] <bryce> ok, I have a feeling (but no evidence) that some of the reported bugs with monitor mis-detection in feisty might be caused by a missing xresprobe
[10:46] <cjwatson> bryce: we put it in the live seed, which means that it's installed in the live session but removed on copy to the target system
[10:46] <cjwatson> bryce: however, we wouldn't have noticed this because xorg.conf is copied over from the live session
[10:47] <fabbione> doko: what did you do to sparc?
[10:47] <bryce> there's at least one case of someone changing video cards after a feisty install and things started majorly misworking 
[10:47] <tepsipakki> bryce: that's true, there are reports where the same image works sometimes
[10:47] <fabbione> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html
[10:47] <cjwatson> bryce: so the only way this could matter is if something is re-running xresprobe after initial installation
[10:47] <mdz> bryce: we don't even try to make that work at present
[10:47] <tepsipakki> bryce: actually, not missing xresprobe but dmidecode not working
[10:47] <mdz> bryce: there's no mechanism to re-detect if the hardware is changed
[10:47] <cjwatson> right, if they had to reconfigure X and xresprobe wasn't installed, this would be problematic
[10:47] <mdz> bryce: I'm hoping this will become less of an issue with display hotplug
[10:47] <cjwatson> but as mdz says, this will only be done if you explicitly dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, AFAIK
[10:48] <bryce> right, iirc they reconfigured X but of course it didn't detect things correctly
[10:48] <bryce> mdz, agreed
[10:48] <Keybuk> doesn't this stuff vaguely go away with Xorg 1.3?
[10:48] <cjwatson> as I said by mail, I moved xresprobe to be a recommends of desktop, which should clear that up
[10:48] <cjwatson> Keybuk: only once the configuration stuff is also adapted
[10:48] <cjwatson> and assuming that xserver 1.3 does everything we want
[10:49] <Mithrandir> fabbione: python2.5 blew up
[10:49] <ogra> Keybuk, i suspect they cpoied it to ~ :P
[10:49] <fabbione> doko: ^^ please fix. kthxbye
[10:49] <tepsipakki> display-hotplug affectes the output-devices.. the server can detect correct driver already
[10:49] <ogra> *copied
[10:49] <fabbione> Mithrandir: thanks
[10:49] <mdz> Keybuk: we know there are cases where that's true, but what we need to know is when it doesn't :-)
[10:49] <bryce> Keybuk: yup, the plan though is to still support the xresprobe approach as a fallback
[10:49] <cjwatson> I have a suspicion that somebody (*cough* hi bryce) is going to have to spend a few weeks going through all the workarounds we have built up over time and ensuring that they are all included in the serverr
[10:49] <cjwatson> server
[10:49] <bryce> :-)
[10:49] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'll give it back and it'll hopefully explode less.
[10:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: thanks...
[10:50] <cjwatson> X hackers tend to have well-supported graphics cards on the machines where they hack on this sort of thing ...
[10:50] <pitti> Keybuk: "I removed my xorg.conf and X still works" -> me too, I got that in r-m bug reports
[10:50] <mdz> the panel detection stuff can most likely go away entirely, since that was a twisted loop querying the X server to get information to write xorg.conf
[10:50] <doko> fabbione, Mithrandir: looking at it now. the archive is open now?
[10:50] <mdz> but the cases where both DDC and the driver fail to detect the display, those we still need to handle somehow
[10:50] <Keybuk> cjwatson: pushing new recruits into the deep end is one thing, put pushing them into the shark-with-frickin-laser-beams-on-their-foreheads and piranha infested waters is another entirely!
[10:50] <cjwatson> doko: yes
[10:50] <fabbione> mdz: hey.. that was a real piece of working art 2 years ago
[10:50] <pitti> doko: yes, you can upload wildly
[10:50] <Mithrandir> doko: yes, the archive is open; I just gave back python2.5 which should hopefully fix this.
[10:51] <tepsipakki> currently the server only works either without a config or a valid config
[10:51] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I was planning to give him some kind of forcefield shield. Does that make it morally OK?
[10:51] <tepsipakki> er, "with a valid config"
[10:51] <cjwatson> "the X server works if and only if your configuration is broken"
[10:51] <bryce> hehe
[10:51] <tepsipakki> but gravity is working on that
[10:52] <fabbione> X server works because Chuck Norris wrote it
[10:52] <tepsipakki> :)
[10:52] <ogra> he did ? 
[10:52] <tepsipakki> with just one hand.. behind the back
[10:53] <mdz> bryce: everyone whose brain we need to pick about this will be at UDS.  bring a list of questions!
[10:53] <doko> Mithrandir: no, have to upload a python-defaults with loosened dependencies first
[10:53] <bryce> cool, will doo
[10:53] <bryce> er, -o
[10:53] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, have fun.
[10:53] <fabbione> brainsik: and beer please :)
[10:53] <fabbione> ops
[10:53] <tepsipakki> please pick the debian brains as well
[10:53] <fabbione> bryce: ^^
[10:53] <Mithrandir> fabbione: beer isn't really enough.  Might well need tequila or stronger too.
[10:53] <fabbione> bryce: the more beer.. the more i will answer ;)
[10:54] <brainsik> fabbione: huh?
[10:54] <fabbione> Mithrandir: beer to start... i need to warm up again
[10:54] <fabbione> brainsik: sorry.. wrong tab
[10:54] <brainsik> fabbione: :)
[10:54] <bryce> fabbione: :-)
[10:54] <ogra> bryce, you have nfs4 experience ? 
[10:55] <fabbione> X over nfs4 ?
[10:55] <ogra> :P
[10:55] <fabbione> i actually configured decnet here at home
[10:55] <mdz> on that note, good night. I am almost out of battery
[10:55] <bryce> ogra: yup
[10:55] <ogra> fabbione, nope, i'm trying to get ltsp with nfs4 nfsroot going ... :)
[10:55] <fabbione> i need to see if xtrans extensions are working
[10:55] <bryce> mdz, night!  thanks
[10:55] <fabbione> mdke: night dude
[10:55] <ogra> bryce, i'll pay some of fabbiones beers for you then :)
[10:56] <ogra> and pick your brain a bit if you dont mind :)
[10:56] <Nafallo> oh. Keybuk left :-P
[10:57] <bryce> ogra, sure :-)
[10:57] <ogra> ;)
[10:58] <\sh> ogra, nfs4 is a charme...less trouble with network admins and their broken firewall appliances ;)
[10:58] <ogra> \sh, its a pain in initramfs :)
[10:58] <ogra> but i got it roughly working now ... 
[10:58] <fabbione> ogra: nothing is pain...
[10:58] <\sh> ogra, I migrated our old nfs3 auto home fs to nfs4..now I'm stucked with the sles9 integration of nfs4..:(
[10:59] <fabbione> pain is pleasure and fun
[10:59] <ajmitch> fabbione: masochist
[10:59] <\sh> SM!
[10:59] <ogra> fabbione, indeed, i picked that pain :)
[10:59] <fabbione> ajmitch: i didn't say inflicting the pain on who :)
[10:59] <Nafallo> oh. what a twist to the discussion ;-)
[11:00] <fabbione> Nafallo: never seen Hell Raiser (the movies)?
[11:00] <Nafallo> fabbione: I think I have one of them somewhere, but not really, no :-)
[11:00] <\sh> oh guys, I do have a good working openldap config for user auth, and sudo-ldap integration...I think tomorrow I'm starting to migrate the ldap-master server from sles to ubuntu
[11:00] <fabbione> Nafallo: ehhh
[11:01] <ajmitch> I can't say much, I'm just installing longhorn server in vmware to test out samba & AD 
[11:01] <ajmitch> \sh: good
[11:01] <ogra> ajmitch, shudder
[11:01] <ajmitch> ogra: I know
[11:01] <Nafallo> ajmitch: nice. did you pay for it? ;-)
[11:01] <ajmitch> Nafallo: no, open beta
[11:01] <Nafallo> :-)
[11:01] <\sh> ajmitch, need to change the acl from old file style to new bdb backend style 
[11:02] <Nafallo> would rock if we integrate with it when it's released :-)
[11:02] <ajmitch> Nafallo: that's mostly up to the samba team
[11:02] <Nafallo> ajmitch: they have the goal though?
[11:03] <ajmitch> of course, it'll be a requirement
[11:03] <Nafallo> nice. can we get back to SM now. that's not half as painful as Windows ;-)
[11:04] <ajmitch> hehe
[11:04] <ogra> lol
[11:06] <\sh> good night folks...time to get a life...
[11:29] <welshbyte> i've just seen someone say on a list that the server and desktop versions of ubuntu use the same kernel, is that true?
[11:30] <Nafallo> no
[11:30] <welshbyte> didn't think so
[11:30] <Nafallo> -server vs -generic
[11:44] <ivoks> did anyone tried oem before release? :)
[11:51] <Mithrandir> libe* and counting..
[11:52] <ajmitch> so we'll just have to wait for buildds to catch up then
[11:52] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: autosyncing? :-)
[11:52] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: "auto", yes.
[11:52] <Nafallo> nice :-)
[11:52] <Mithrandir> this is just the "download into the ~/syncs bit.  Then it'll have to be processed.
[11:53] <ajmitch> ah
[12:06] <cjwatson> grr @ ivoks
[12:06] <cjwatson> "doesn't work for me" != "nobody tried it"