[12:14] <Keybuk> most of the canoncial staff don't play much at weekends
[12:14] <Keybuk> side-effect of having wives, kids, etc. :p
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Any idea when MoM will be turned back on?
[12:15] <jdong> In Soviet Russia.... eww never mind
[12:15] <Nafallo> Keybuk: what are YOU doing here ;-)
[12:16] <Keybuk> Nafallo: sitting in Chicago airport
[12:16] <Nafallo> Keybuk: ah. that's a good reason then :-)
[12:20] <Mithrandir> hiya Scott
[12:20] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: heyhey
[12:20] <Mithrandir> how's, uh, the airport? :-P
[12:20] <Keybuk> shiny
[12:21] <Keybuk> lacks shiny technical goods, like all US airports
[12:21] <Keybuk> but then I was looking at the BestBuy prices, and it's getting *expensive* here
[12:21] <Mithrandir> it is?  Even with two dollars to the pound?
[12:22] <Keybuk> yeah, the prices are *way* up
[12:22] <Keybuk> was looking at Digital SLRs
[12:22] <Keybuk> initial glance, it's actually more expensive than standard UK high street prices
[12:23] <Mithrandir> ouch.
[12:23] <Mithrandir> bhphotovideo.com in NY isn't too bad, in my experience.
[12:24] <Keybuk> ok, so Canon EOS 30D is $1,600
[12:24] <Keybuk> which is about 800
[12:24] <Keybuk> it was 650 in the Dixons at Heathrow
[12:25] <Mithrandir> 650 for a 30D isn't all bad, is it?
[12:25] <Keybuk> no, but I was expecting the US to be cheaper still
[12:25] <Keybuk> so was kinda disappointed
[12:25] <Keybuk> same is for the Creative MP3 player I was looking at
[12:27] <Mithrandir> mhm
[12:28] <mjg59> Yeah, the US only seems to be cheaper for entire machines right now
[12:29] <Keybuk> of course, first I need to find out which camera is the best to buy
[12:29] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what kind of camera are you looking for?  (And do you have any ties to a manufacturer from before)
[12:31] <Keybuk> Digital SLR is about the only decision made so far
[12:32] <Keybuk> considering taking a photography course in september, and taking it up as another hobby, so want something reasonable
[12:32] <Mithrandir> once you move into the SLR range, they're all reasonable, really.
[12:32] <Mithrandir> it's the optics which matter.
[12:33] <Keybuk> my mother has the Eos Rebel I think it is
[12:33] <Mithrandir> aka 300D in Europe?
[12:33] <Keybuk> could be yeah
[12:33] <Mithrandir> I think Rebel XT is 350D, and XTi is 400D, or something along those lines.
[12:34] <Mithrandir> I prefer Nikon myself, but that's mainly a matter of preference and both Nikon and Canon are safe enough choices.
[12:35] <Keybuk> I figure I'll just have to find a decent shop and play
[12:35] <Keybuk> if it turns out that the UK is just as cheap, I can do it at home
[12:35] <Mithrandir> yeah
[12:36] <Mithrandir> I've got a Nikon D200, so if you want to play with that at UDS, you're welcome to.
[12:36] <Mithrandir> it's a lovely camera, but the body + 18-200mm I use puts it at quite a steeper price than the 30D you have looked at so far.
[12:37] <Keybuk> that'd be cool to look at
[12:37] <Keybuk> haven't planned a budget yet, just picked on that camera to compare prices because they had it at heathrow :p
[12:38] <Keybuk> I guess it makes sense that things here should be expensive
[12:38] <Mithrandir> bhphotovideo wants $2150 for body + that lens, which, tbh, isn't all unreasonable.
[12:38] <Keybuk> since they have to import everything
[12:38] <Mithrandir> true dat.
[12:38] <Mithrandir> it's all made in {Japan,China,Taiwan}, iirc
[12:38] <Mithrandir> oh, or Malaysia
[12:39] <Keybuk> $1600 for the body in UK
[12:39] <Mithrandir> same as bhphoto, then
[12:40] <Keybuk> yeah, looks like it
[12:40] <Mithrandir> (well, give or take 10$ which gets you about half a pint of beer.)
[12:41] <Keybuk> in Oslo, that doesn't even get you to the bar to *look* at some beer
[12:41] <Mithrandir> you're exaggerating. :-P
[12:41] <Mithrandir> it gets you about a pint in most of Oslo
[12:41] <Keybuk> I'm so not ;p
[12:41] <Keybuk> the cover at most places was about that or more
[12:42] <Mithrandir> oh, probably, but I tend to go to pubs that don't have cover.
[12:43] <Keybuk> :)
[12:45] <elkbuntu> Keybuk, you're trying to make sense of the United States?
[12:45] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: It looks that way :(
[12:45] <Mithrandir> hiya elkbuntu 
[12:45] <Mithrandir> elkbuntu: he's quite ambitious, isn't he? :-P
[12:45] <elkbuntu> hey Mithrandir
[12:46] <elkbuntu> he is indeed
[12:47] <elkbuntu> Mithrandir, we all know the man isn't sane anyway
[12:47] <Mithrandir> elkbuntu: that's practically a requirement to be hired. :-D
[12:48] <elkbuntu> ah, so *that* explains it
[12:48] <Keybuk> heh
[12:48] <Keybuk> I might try that
[12:48] <Keybuk> tell Jo that I'm rejecting a CV because the candidate is "too sane"
[12:49] <elkbuntu> lol
[12:50] <elkbuntu> well, if nothing else, i have that requirement going for me
[12:50] <elkbuntu> Keybuk, i know how to use figlet IN cowsay
[12:51] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: That can get messy at times.
[12:51] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: exploding cow?
[12:51] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, what's not messy about insanity?
[12:52] <Mithrandir> elkbuntu: what is?
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Sometimes a rather segmented cow, but not quite exploded.
[12:52] <Keybuk> insanity isn't messy
[12:52] <Keybuk> provided you clean up the bodies
[12:52] <sladen> cowsplode
[12:52] <Fujitsu> sladen: Sounds like a good SoC project for next year. Very worthwhile.
[12:53] <Fujitsu> LH?
[12:53] <Keybuk> (actually, I should be careful with phrases like that...
[12:53] <elkbuntu> our dear Leslie
[12:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: probably, since you're not IRC-ing over ssh.
[12:53] <Keybuk> last time I was in an airport lounge and talked about someone (Danese Cooper), she turned out to be on the same flight as me
[12:53] <Mithrandir> heh
[12:53] <Mithrandir> but she wasn't on the same IRC channel, so it was all good?
[12:54] <Keybuk> true, but it was un-nerving
[12:54] <elkbuntu> oh my, that would be interesting
[12:55] <Mithrandir> that's what we get for having the UDS in a hard-to-get-to place.
[12:55] <Mithrandir> I'm just so amazed I've managed to avoid all the LH cancellations.
[12:55] <Keybuk> SFO->some random airport->LHR->train->LGW->MAD->Sevilla
[12:55] <Mithrandir> pitti managed to hit all of them.
[12:55] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, fun.
[12:56] <Keybuk> I may go mad
[12:56] <Mithrandir> SFO->LHR isn't a nonstop?
[12:56] <Keybuk> just for fun
[12:56] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I don't think so, Eyas being cheap :)
[12:56] <Mithrandir> you should do the routing yourself.  Less painful.
[12:56] <Mithrandir> I should probably have run it past them this time, just to make them explode.
[12:56] <Keybuk> this was all last minute
[12:56] <sladen> man, I should get on a train, I only have a week left to get there
[12:57] <Keybuk> since they lost my "and I'm now going to the US for a week before" e-mail
[12:57] <Mithrandir> ugh
[12:57] <Keybuk> it's the arrive at LHR and depart from LGW I like
[12:57] <elkbuntu> eyas... ugh
[12:58] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: when I looked at tickets, KLM tried to do that to me in Paris.
[12:58] <Keybuk> oh, I *NEVER* change at CDG
[12:58] <Keybuk> EVER
[12:58] <Mithrandir> given my non-knowledge of French, hilarity might have ensued.
[12:58] <Keybuk> I like my luggage
[12:58] <Keybuk> and I like to see it again
[12:58] <Mithrandir> this was CDG->the other Paris Airport.
[12:59] <Mithrandir> now I route through Germany instead.
[01:03] <Keybuk> to be fair to eyas, they're usually not bad
[01:03] <Keybuk> for me, at least
[01:03] <Keybuk> I usually just phone Dionne and talk through the options
[01:03] <Keybuk> this time the problem was time constraints, with needing to leave San Francisco no earlier than X, but arrive in London before Y for my existing flight booking
[01:03] <Mithrandir> yeah, I think that might help.
[01:03] <Mithrandir> "Mark, can I borrow your plane"?
[01:04] <Keybuk> we're using that for the airport hops this week
[01:04] <Keybuk> we couldn't arrive on it, because of the visa issues, and Mark's going elsewhere for the weekend, so we couldn't leave on it either (plus the return ticket thing)
[01:05] <sladen> so the plane is flying empty over to the US, to ferry people around
[01:05] <sladen> ...(!)
[01:05] <Keybuk> nah, Mark's coming on it to the US
[01:05] <sladen> thought mark has/had "visa issues" after some previous occasion
[01:06] <sladen> "yes, I am a criminal, mmmkay"
[01:06] <Keybuk> nah, that was all solved
[01:06] <Keybuk> md5sum: WARNING: 4 of 77825 listed files could not be read
[01:06] <Keybuk> md5sum: WARNING: 3 of 77821 computed checksums did NOT match
[01:06] <Keybuk> woo
[01:06] <Keybuk> no EIO
[01:07] <Keybuk> right, experiment time, let's see whether there's wifi on the plane
[01:08] <Mithrandir> sounds fun.
[01:08] <sladen> did boeing just close their wifi business
[01:08] <sladen> Boeing Connexions
[01:08] <Keybuk> just whether the airport cloud extends that far
[01:08] <Keybuk> it's a very little plane
[01:08] <Keybuk> Mark's is much bigger
[01:08] <sladen> at Stansted
[01:16] <Keybuk> heh
[01:16] <Keybuk> what do you know, the cloud extends far enough
[01:16] <Nafallo> :-P
[01:18] <Keybuk> cute guy sat behind me, not next to me, boo hiss, where's the fun in that?
[01:19] <Keybuk> jdong: I'm sat on a plane at a gate at Chicago airport ;P
[01:19] <jdong> Keybuk: and noting the position of attractive men for us :D
[01:19] <crimsun> you could arrange to be reseated if there are children involved.
[01:20] <Keybuk> jdong: just for me
[01:20] <crimsun> [children separated from their parents, that is] 
[01:20] <Keybuk> right, flight time
[03:06] <ajmitch> afternoon
[03:06] <bhale> hi
[03:06] <LaserJock> hi bhale 
[03:06] <bhale> hi LaserJock 
[03:07] <bhale> how far are you from Vegas
[03:07] <LaserJock> well, it's about 8hrs drive I think
[03:07] <bhale> oh jeez
[03:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:07] <LaserJock> basically I'm in the north part of the state
[03:07] <bhale> i wont be seeing you, then
[03:07] <LaserJock> and Vegas is at the southern tip
[03:08] <LaserJock> I hear it's cheap to fly to vegas from here though
[03:25] <bhale> http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution=Fedora%207%20Test%204
[03:25] <bhale> fedora core 7 copies ubuntu livecd installer
[03:26] <LaserJock> bhale: something about those screenshots makes me feel like it's a lot of hot air ;-)
[03:27] <bhale> LaserJock: hah
[03:27] <jdong> LaserJock: BOO :)
[03:27] <bhale> based on these shots they seem to have gone back on their new icon theme
[03:27] <bhale> which i found to be highly offensive in the "desktop consistancy" department
[03:28] <bhale> bluecurve + gnome2 + tango + new fedora = oh my
[03:29] <mjg59> Eh, we rip stuff off from Fedora all the time
[03:29] <mjg59> I think they're allowed to reciprocate :)
[03:29] <bhale> of course, they are the big kids
[03:30] <mjg59> And without the kernel development they do, we'd be nowhere
[03:30] <Burgundavia> their live cd does not contain OO.o
[03:31] <ajmitch> we are one big happy family after all
[03:31] <LaserJock> sure we are ...
[04:11] <Windows2000XPVIS> hey
[04:11] <Windows2000XPVIS> hey ppl
[04:11] <Windows2000XPVIS> how do i add .net app to ubuntu
[04:13] <jdong> this is not a support channel
[04:13] <Windows2000XPVIS> duh i am developer
[04:13] <jdong> it is a meeting room for developers to discuss the development of Ubuntu
[04:14] <jdong> it is not to discuss developers of applications for Ubuntu
[04:14] <Windows2000XPVIS> i develop state of the art windows apps on .net platform
[04:14] <jdong> that's awesome for you
[04:14] <Windows2000XPVIS> well there's no such thing as ubuntu developer
[04:14] <Windows2000XPVIS> all you do is recompile what is already there
[04:15] <Windows2000XPVIS> thus i am onlyreal developer in here
[04:15] <jdong> !ops
[04:15] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[04:15] <Windows2000XPVIS> no place for criticsm
[04:15] <Windows2000XPVIS> truth hurts?
[04:15] <Windows2000XPVIS> leaching off redhat for yrs..
[04:16] <poningru> \o/
[04:16] <nalioth> Windows2000XPVIS: isn't enough enough?
[04:16] <pkl_> Many of the Ubuntu developers also work on other open source projects.
[04:16] <poningru> our first -devel troll in a while
[04:16] <Windows2000XPVIS> you mean many try to copy stuff form other distros?
[04:16] <poningru> not creative though
[04:16] <nalioth> Windows2000XPVIS: please see PM
[04:16] <poningru> Windows2000XPVIS: I'll give you a 5 for effort
[04:16] <Windows2000XPVIS> prime minister?
[04:17] <LaserJock> poningru: 5?
[04:17] <poningru> hmm scratch that add another 3 to that for being a real human
[04:17] <poningru> LaserJock: his troll point
[04:17] <Windows2000XPVIS> 5 out of 5 or out of 10
[04:17] <jdong> LaserJock: I only got 3 for effort ever... out of 100
[04:17] <LaserJock> poningru: I know, I thought  5 was high
[04:17] <poningru> LaserJock: I dont know he is human
[04:17] <poningru> human trolls seem to be a scarcity these days
[04:18] <Windows2000XPVIS> yeah yeah when you give them criticism all they can is to be rude
[04:18] <nalioth> Windows2000XPVIS: please see the PM
[04:18] <poningru> rude?
[04:19] <LaserJock> ah, so soon
[04:19] <poningru> we could have had some fun
[04:20] <jdong> Fujitsu: in soviet russia, redhad leeches YOU
[04:21] <poningru> oh great its a chatzilla user...
[04:22] <poningru> and a real IP...
[04:22] <poningru> sigh
[04:22] <jdong> in soviet russia, chatz..... oh I give up
[04:22] <poningru> back in my days trolls would hide their IP and client some how
[04:22] <poningru> trolls these days... no honor
[04:23] <reitblatt> back in the day trolls used a little intellect
[04:23] <reitblatt> now they don't even try
[04:23] <Windows2000XPVIS> my ip no secret
[04:23] <nalioth> reitblatt: nowadays they use little intellect
[04:23] <Windows2000XPVIS> i am not thief
[04:23] <Fujitsu> nalioth: True.
[04:23] <Windows2000XPVIS> and i get new one by clicking reboot on modem
[04:23] <Fujitsu> Ooh, scary.
[04:23] <jdong> really? how do you do that?
[04:24] <jdong> never heard of it
[04:24] <nalioth> Windows2000XPVIS: have these folks asked you to leave?
[04:24] <Windows2000XPVIS> no they like my presence
[04:24] <Windows2000XPVIS> right?
[04:24] <nalioth> right....
[04:24] <jdong> of course; he is a state of the art .NET developer.
[04:24] <Windows2000XPVIS> they want part of my experience
[04:24] <Windows2000XPVIS> yeah.
[04:24] <reitblatt> the experience of you leaving
[04:24] <Windows2000XPVIS> i do some Java too
[04:24] <jdong> lovely.
[04:24] <Windows2000XPVIS> and C :D
[04:24] <LaserJock> Windows2000XPVIS: you do a lot of Mono development?
[04:25] <Windows2000XPVIS> yes as much as .Net development.
[04:25] <nalioth> so do you guys want him gone or not?
[04:25] <Fujitsu> nalioth: He's nice and offtopic and trollish. please dispose of him.
[04:26] <jdong> nalioth: System.Console.Out.Close()
[04:26] <reitblatt> thanks
[04:27] <nalioth> don't feed the trolls, and they won't bite you.
[04:27] <reitblatt> ehh, this one walked in fully fed
[04:28] <nalioth> full of something, anyway
[04:28] <jdong> In Soviet Russia, tr....... *smack*
[04:28] <jdong> Fujitsu: don't beg me towards a reiser joke :)
[04:28] <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
[04:29] <jmg> heh
[04:29] <jmg> hey guys, what do you think about a spec for configuring surround sound, and a speaker config/test tool for gnome
[04:33] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: He's in -meeting now.
[04:35] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: How was the flight?
[05:02] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, must have been good
[05:21] <Hobbsee> urgh.  why must trolls comes when i'm not at my keyboard?
[05:23] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Because they're watching you.
[05:23] <Hobbsee> urgh
[05:25] <jdong> in soviet russia.....
[05:26] <Hobbsee> in soviet russia, Hobbsee beats jdong into a pulp.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> same as anywhere else in the world.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:26] <jdong> haha
[05:26] <jdong> I love you too
[05:36] <gpocentek> morning
[08:17] <LordLimecat> im having a devil of a time installing feisty on XFS, anyone have a moment?
[08:18] <Burgundavia> LordLimecat: #ubuntu for support
[08:18] <Amaranth> LordLimecat: #ubuntu
[08:19] <LordLimecat> i checked in there and was referred here
[08:20] <LordLimecat> and ive been tryin to get help for like 2 hours
[08:20] <jmg> not many people use xfs i guess
[08:21] <jdong> LordLimecat: grr I'll make myself an exception, make an ext2 or ext3 /boot, and XFS will be fine
[08:21] <LordLimecat> jdong: i did that
[08:21] <LordLimecat> and had to manually set the partition active
[08:22] <LordLimecat> and got an "operating system error" at boot, after POST and before grub
[08:22] <jdong> interesting.
[08:22] <LordLimecat> lemme run the install once more
[08:22] <jmg> is there a reason you have to use xfs?
[08:22] <LordLimecat> because i can, its faster and (for what i want) better, and its good to know how to do
[08:23] <jdong> I use XFS as my root currently
[08:23] <jmg> seems to me like you cant :)
[08:23] <Burgundavia> LordLimecat: who referred you to here?
[08:23] <jdong> though I installed completely manually
[08:23] <LordLimecat> some random guy in ubuntu
[08:23] <LordLimecat> not one of the main ppl
[08:23] <Burgundavia> ugh
[08:23] <reitblatt> xfs is less reliable, power loss tends to be very bad for it
[08:23] <jmg> Burgundavia: if its an installer issue where should he go?
[08:24] <LordLimecat> next time someone goes into ubuntu for help askin about installin ubuntu on XFS, i hope to be able to help em better than #ubuntu does
[08:24] <Burgundavia> jmg: if it is a bug, file it
[08:24] <Burgundavia> forums or mailing list is another good bet
[08:24] <jdong> reitblatt: it has gotten better since 2.6.17 with write barriers
[08:24] <jdong> though that is a very good point to raise with XFS -- it tends to aggressively write-cache a lot more
[08:24] <LordLimecat> there IS a bug with the installer, itll keep askin you if yer sure that you want to install grub on xfs....you have to hit "go back" to continue, because continue goes back
[08:24] <reitblatt> jdong: no longer caches everything in memory?
[08:25] <reitblatt> I see
[08:25] <jdong> reitblatt: well it still does, but IDE writeback cache no longer corrupts metadata structures
[08:25] <reitblatt> gotcha
[08:25] <jdong> that was a major problem before write barriers
[08:25] <jdong> where a hard shutdown would require xfs_repair
[08:25] <LordLimecat> dataloss is not an issue
[08:25] <reitblatt> yeah, I found that out
[08:25] <LordLimecat> not for me
[08:25] <LordLimecat> worst case i lose 1/2 a day
[08:25] <jdong> LordLimecat: also be warned XFS is very slow at the creation and removal of a large number of files
[08:26] <jdong> so keep that in mind before choosing XFS
[08:26] <jmg> LordLimecat: checked launchpad for open bugs on the installer/xfs (guys help me out... what is the installer package?)
[08:26] <reitblatt> my array needed 3GB of RAM to run xfs_repair
[08:26] <reitblatt> ubiquity?
[08:26] <jdong> currently my pbuilders are on a internal reiserfs loopback image on top of XFS
[08:26] <LordLimecat> i understood it was faster for removal of files vs ext3? benchmark quoted 22secs for ext3, 10 for xfs (700mb iso)\
[08:26] <jmg> right ubiquity
[08:26] <jdong> LordLimecat: for a single large file, true
[08:27] <jdong> LordLimecat: for a large collection of small files, very false
[08:27] <jdong> LordLimecat: pbuilder cleanup on XFS: 45s; EXT3: 15s; reiserfs: 5s
[08:27] <LordLimecat> thats fine, "large collection" for me would be like 30 files
[08:27] <jmg> hehe, so xfs is the warez fs
[08:27] <jdong> jmg: haha
[08:27] <jmg> nice
[08:28] <jdong> LordLimecat: yeah, that'll be fine for you then. Just a heads up in case your were unaware :)
[08:28] <jmg> does it have zero reserved blocks by default as well? :-)
[08:28] <jdong> XFS's deletion time is pretty constant regardless of how huge the file is
[08:28] <jdong> jmg: yep
[08:28] <jmg> jdong: see earlier statement :-)
[08:28] <LordLimecat> i saw a "real world" benchmark recently that seemed pretty good....conclusion was that ext3=slower, less cpu, more reliable, XFS=faster, more CPU, jfs=less cpu
[08:29] <jdong> LordLimecat: I've used basically every FS that works under Linux, from reiser4 to ntfs-3g
[08:29] <LordLimecat> and?
[08:29] <jdong> LordLimecat: In general, I would only suggest XFS for systems where large files is the primary motive
[08:29] <jdong> (i.e. files consistently >=50MB)
[08:29] <LordLimecat> for a system where pics and mp3=the goal?
[08:29] <LordLimecat> what then?
[08:30] <jdong> ext3 is fine for those workloads
[08:30] <jdong> and will likely perform better too
[08:30] <jmg> drwx------ 16 tom  tom     32768 2007-04-29 17:46 EXTERNAL
[08:30] <LordLimecat> id still kind of like to know how to do it
[08:30] <jmg> oops
[08:30] <jdong> XFS is terrible under high metadata activity
[08:30] <jdong> LordLimecat: try booting onto a LiveCD and reinstalling GRUB by hand
[08:30] <LordLimecat> im tryin to figure out where i want grub to GO
[08:31] <jdong> to your ext3 /boot
[08:31] <LordLimecat> i have a Sata drive on ide channel 3.....thats not hd0 is it?
[08:31] <jmg> what mounts the drive? is it udev?
[08:31] <jmg> hotplug?
[08:31] <jdong> jmg: HAL
[08:32] <jdong> LordLimecat: check with your tab key (hd<TAB>
[08:32] <LordLimecat> jdong: i...dont have a ext3 /boot anymore, after that failed, someone said that XFS for all was fine
[08:32] <LordLimecat> so i deleted all, and made all XFS
[08:32] <jmg> oh god xml
[08:32] <LordLimecat> and that doesnt work at all
[08:32] <jdong> umm, ok, that works too
[08:32] <jdong> LordLimecat: find your XFS root then
[08:32] <LordLimecat> grub refuses to install
[08:32] <jdong> the installer will refuse to install GRUB
[08:32] <jdong> but hand-install works fine
[08:32] <LordLimecat> ah
[08:32] <jmg> even better there should be an option in removable devices for permissions
[08:32] <LordLimecat> itll throw a fit, crash out @94%?
[08:32] <jdong> you can't use the grub-install command!
[08:32] <Burgundavia> ok, I tagged dabar for telling people to come here for help
[08:32] <jdong> you must use sudo grub
[08:33] <jdong> and then the typical root, setup, quit
[08:33] <LordLimecat> so grub install is the last thing in the installer, right?
[08:33] <LordLimecat> cause installer didnt get past that
[08:34] <jdong> yeah, you should be fine
[08:35] <LordLimecat> wait, should i have been trying to install grub to sda rather than hd0?
[08:36] <jdong> no, no
[08:36] <jdong> you need to use (hd0,0)
[08:36] <jdong> root (hd0,0)
[08:36] <jdong> setup (hd0)
[08:36] <jdong> qui
[08:36] <jdong> quit*
[08:36] <jdong> assuming that hd0,0 = /dev/sda1 = your XFS root
[08:37] <LordLimecat> im assuming i need to learn a TAD more about partitioning real quick
[08:37] <LordLimecat> hold on
[08:37] <jdong> LordLimecat: all you have to do is figure out what GRUB device your hard disk is.
[08:38] <jdong> GRUB's built in tab completion is excellent for that
[08:38] <LordLimecat> whats been throwing me off is that it wanted to install grub to hd0 before and after i removed my ATA drive (ide channel 1)
[08:38] <jdong> if the only drive in your system is that SATA drive, it will show up as hd0
[08:38] <jdong> most likely....
[08:38] <LordLimecat> what happens if i later attach a drive to an ata channel?
[08:38] <LordLimecat> will that fuck everythin up?
[08:38] <LordLimecat> oh wait
[08:39] <LordLimecat> i get it
[08:39] <LordLimecat> do i need to pastebin 2 lines?
[08:40] <LordLimecat> (tab completion isnt working in sudo grub-install )
[08:40] <jdong> I already said, do not use grub-install
[08:40] <jdong> it is the command that hangs on XFS
[08:40] <jdong> you need to load a grub prompt via sudo grub
[08:40] <LordLimecat> ah
[08:40] <LordLimecat> this is nice
[08:42] <LordLimecat> it IS hd0,0, but...Error 1: Filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist
[08:42] <jdong> root (hd0,0)
[08:42] <jdong> don't forget the ()
[08:42] <jdong> setup (hd0)
[08:43] <jdong> quit
[08:43] <LordLimecat> i dont need install?
[08:43] <jdong> nope
[08:43] <jdong> setup does all that work
[08:43] <LordLimecat> ah
[08:43] <LordLimecat> see, if i had never tried this, i wouldnt have learned how to install grub!
[08:44] <LordLimecat> pretty cool, thanks
[08:44] <jdong> not a problem
[08:44] <LordLimecat> sorry to bug you all :D
[08:44] <jdong> don't sweat it; XFS install is a pretty obscure thing
[08:44] <jdong> the next time I see an Installer guy, I'll try to ask what's up with it
[08:44] <LordLimecat> so....for more complicated questions like this, or kernel compiles (yes, ive seen the guides, they sort of suck), what channel would i go to?
[08:45] <jdong> I have no idea which internals are to blame for the issues here....
[08:45] <super_spam> why is this channel not titled devel-ubuntu
[08:45] <LordLimecat> people in #ubuntu dont really answer questions if youre not a noob, or dont spam every 15 mins
[08:45] <jdong> LordLimecat: they should still be done via another support mechanism
[08:45] <LordLimecat> anythin more advanced than drivers, they ignore you
[08:45] <jdong> LordLimecat: try the forums, mailing lists, etc
[08:45] <LordLimecat> alright
[08:45] <super_spam> try suse or fedora
[08:46] <LordLimecat> well, im off, hopefully it worked
[08:46] <jdong> yeah, good luck
[08:46] <Burgundavia> super_spam: ummm?
[08:46] <jdong> *grr* 4 more ktorrent crashers
[08:47] <jdong> imbrandon: please look over that KTorrent SRU when you get a chance; the bugreports on KTorrent are flowing in like mad
[08:47] <super_spam> susedhas 0 bugs atm
[08:48] <super_spam> is tghere gonna be support for dmraid 
[08:48] <super_spam> in installer?
[08:49] <jdong> suse has 0 bugs, huh.
[08:49] <super_spam> actually, -1
[08:49] <jdong> cool :)
[08:49] <super_spam> so what about dmraid support
[08:50] <super_spam> will it ever be there
[08:50] <jdong> dmraid is already supported in the alternate installer, no?
[08:50] <super_spam> can you tell me anything about that?
[08:50] <jdong> the alternate install CD should be able to set up dmraids
[08:50] <jdong> at least from my memory it does
[08:51] <super_spam> thanks for the hint.
[08:51] <jdong> no problem
[08:52] <LordLimecat> it wasnt meant to be
[08:52] <LordLimecat>  :(
[08:52] <LordLimecat> thanks anyways guys
[08:52] <jdong> aww sorry to hear that
[08:52] <jdong> my tip to you... don't use XFS root
[08:52] <jdong> make an ext3 root
[08:53] <jdong> use XFS to store your data
[08:53] <LordLimecat> and xfs home?
[08:53] <jdong> yep
[08:53] <jdong> that also alleviates any XFS bottlenecks that might occur from processing all the tiny files that are a part of any Linux install
[08:53] <LordLimecat> im sort of tinkering with that thought, i want kubuntu, xubuntu, and ubuntu installations sharing data
[08:53] <LordLimecat> (and i dont want packages shared)
[08:54] <jdong> hey Hobbsee, whatcha doing in and out?
[08:55] <LordLimecat> one other question, how would i get usage info on unionfs?  is there a command i can man or google?
[08:58] <jdong> never played with it myself
[08:58] <jdong> though I'm sure googling for howto's will get you somewhere
[08:58] <LordLimecat> tried, most articles seem to be on why its so great, not how to use it -_-
[08:58] <LordLimecat> lol
[08:58] <LordLimecat> looks pretty cool tho
[08:58] <jdong> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_VERY_small_Portage_Tree_with_SquashFS_and_UnionFS
[08:59] <jdong> that is a good example of how unionfs is used
[08:59] <LordLimecat> awesome, thanks
[08:59] <jdong> the scripts/application are specific to Gentoo
[08:59] <jdong> but you can still see how they used their mount command
[08:59] <jdong> and I'm sure the .txt documentation files INSIDE the unionfs source will be the most comprehensive
[08:59] <jdong> that's a place people commonly forget to check
[09:00] <LordLimecat> not sure this is gonna be QUITE what i thought it was, but looks dooable
[09:01] <LordLimecat> i had gotten the impression that it merged folders, not partitions
[09:01] <LordLimecat> sort of like having all of yer music in different folders browseable in one big merged folder
[09:01] <jdong> you can probably use it to merge directories.
[09:01] <jdong> as I've said, I haven't used it myself
[09:01] <LordLimecat> heh, alright
[09:02] <LordLimecat> this article will keep me busy for a while
[09:02] <jdong> and I doubt a lot of people here use it much either :)
[09:02] <jdong> probably finding some LiveCD/UnionFS camp such as Sidux/Kanotix/Knoppix will get you the best answers
[09:02] <Mithrandir> jdong: everybody who uses the live CDs uses unionfs, so that's not strictly true.
[09:02] <jdong> Mithrandir: oh we're not using the silly dm-cow thingie?
[09:03] <Mithrandir> not any more, and haven't done so since sometime in the dapper cycle.
[09:03] <jdong> ok
[09:04] <jdong> LordLimecat: bug him ^^. he knows everything. off to be now.
[09:04] <LordLimecat> lol
[09:04] <LordLimecat> shit, its 3am
[09:04] <LordLimecat> linux is so bad for me
[09:04] <jdong> hey you're in my timezone
[09:04] <LordLimecat> at least on windows i got tired of it and could go to sleep
[09:05] <LordLimecat> i SWEAR i started messing with my kernel only a few hours ago
[09:05] <LordLimecat> that was like 7pm -_-
[09:05] <cjwatson> jdong: no, the alternate CD doesn't have dmraid support either
[09:05] <jdong> look at that, I'm wrong 2 for 2 today :)
[09:05] <cjwatson> basically nobody's come up with patches so I think realistically I have to go buy an appropriate system so I can play with it
[09:05] <Hobbsee> jdong: you dont want to know.
[09:06] <jdong> cjwatson: is dmraid the same thing as fakeraid?
[09:06] <cjwatson> jdong: the XFS thing is a race condition between grub and XFS. It's not that grub-install is broken, it's more likely that by the time you get round to running grub by hand the race window has closed
[09:06] <cjwatson> jdong: I think so
[09:06] <jdong> the motherboard fake software raid thingie?
[09:06] <cjwatson> yes
[09:06] <jdong> ah, ok
[09:06] <jdong> ther'es a wiki howto that kind of hacks the livecd to install on it....
[09:06] <jdong> but it sounded like device-mapper found the devices somewhat magically
[09:06] <cjwatson> there are hacks around, though being a race they're mostly "works for me"
[09:07] <cjwatson> some people never reproduce the hang in the first place
[09:07] <cjwatson> I had people asserting it didn't exist while I had a machine that reproduced it every time
[09:07] <jdong> cjwatson: I've had it happen flakily
[09:07] <jdong> cjwatson: I've been able on a few occasions to install grub on XFS without issue
[09:07] <jdong> but at other times it consistently hangs
[09:07] <cjwatson> fundamentally it's because XFS skirts the letter of what POSIX lets you do, while GRUB assumes that little bit more than POSIX
[09:08] <jdong> yeah, that sounds like XFS to me :)
[09:08] <cjwatson> there appears to be no way to force XFS to actually write data out to disk, short of unmounting the filesystem (which isn't feasible at that point)
[09:08] <cjwatson> and GRUB does raw reads from the disk using its own filesystem code
[09:08] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: we could add a sysfs node somewhere in the tree forcing all xfs fs-es to actually sync.
[09:09] <jdong> cjwatson: xfs_freeze?
[09:09] <Mithrandir> and just poke that from grub-installer.
[09:09] <jdong> freeze and unfreeze the FS?
[09:09] <jdong> freeze forces all unwritten transactions onto the disk
[09:09] <Mithrandir> jdong: except it doesn't, it seems.
[09:09] <Mithrandir> iirc we're using that + a sleep
[09:10] <jdong> hmm that's disappointing.
[09:10] <jdong> maybe it's not sleeping long enough ;-)
[09:10] <jdong> lol
[09:11] <jdong> or the "evict by dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null bs=1M count=$RAMSIZE" method :D
[09:11] <jdong> ah, I'm gonna get smacked for coming up with these hacks
[09:11] <Hobbsee> i'm now disappointed in both koffice and openoffice.
[09:12] <Mithrandir> bs=1M and count=$RAM is kinda silly, since you then end up reading a million times your ram size off the disk
[09:12] <jdong> lol you know what I meant :D
[09:12] <jdong> read enough of the disk to evict the cache...
[09:13] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: The autosync seems to be missing some things (complearn-{gui,mpi} for example). Is there any reason for that?
[09:14] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: they might be stuck in NEW, they might be blacklisted, they might be new source packages or something might be broken
[09:14] <ion_> mithrandir: 977 GiB of memory? :-)
[09:14] <Fujitsu> They're new source packages.
[09:14] <Fujitsu> Oh, haven't they been done yet?
[09:14] <Mithrandir> new sources haven't been synced yet
[09:14] <Fujitsu> I see. Thanks.
[09:14] <Mithrandir> I didn't get around to them on Friday and I pretend not to work in the weekends.
[09:15] <Hobbsee> hah
[09:15] <Hobbsee> pretend
[09:15] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Let us know how that turns out. :-P
[09:15] <Fujitsu> Now that MoM's hardware is fixed, is it likely to turn back on in the next couple of days?
[09:16] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: hopefully, yes.
[09:16] <jdong> oh god it's 3:15AM
[09:16] <Hobbsee> excellent
[09:16] <Fujitsu> jdong: To bed with you!
[09:16] <Hobbsee> jdong: yes.  sleep's overrated
[09:16] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Great :) That'll make things easier.
[09:16] <jdong> well... I'll get a few hours
[09:17] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: and once it's synced, it needs to pass NEW:
[09:17] <Mithrandir> lp_archive@drescher:~/syncs$ new-source | wc -l
[09:17] <Mithrandir> 490
[09:17] <Hobbsee> woo
[09:17] <Fujitsu> Wow, that's a lot.
[09:17] <Fujitsu> And there's a heap more in Debian NEW.
[09:28] <cjwatson> jdong: xfs_freeze doesn't work, we tried that.
[09:29] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I wonder if remounting it ro then rw would do the trick and force stuff to be written out.
[09:29] <Mithrandir> if nothing has open writable file descriptors on the fs, it should work fine.
[09:30] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I suggest not doing syncs until our kernel headers are less buggered
[09:30] <cjwatson> no point having it all fail to build
[09:30] <Mithrandir> oh, point.
[09:30] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I think I tried that and it didn't work well for some reason
[09:30] <Mithrandir> ok
[09:31] <cjwatson> and it also wasn't clear from the XFS source that remounting read-only was enough
[09:31] <Mithrandir> I guess I'll get Adam to do a small mass-giveback once the kernel headers are fixed.
[09:31] <cjwatson> but it's about two and a half years since I looked at this seriously
[09:31] <cjwatson> Adam has instructions by mail on recovery, unless you have enough access to do that
[09:31] <Fujitsu> I think it might end up being a bit larger than small, Mithrandir.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: as of last evening it was about 500 failures in gutsy.
[09:32] <cjwatson> basically manually install linux-libc-dev from feisty and build the new linux-source-2.6.22
[09:32] <Fujitsu> Out of less than 1000 builds, I think.
[09:33] <cjwatson> yeah, but out of 10000+ source packages
[09:33] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: well, technically and archive-admin has access to mangle the chroots, and I think I have the knowledge how to do it, but I'd rather not since it makes IS upset (for a good reason; it is an abuse of priviledges)
[09:34] <Mithrandir> s/and/any/
[09:34] <Mithrandir> d and y are just too close on the keyboard.
[09:35] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: right, I meant official access :)
[09:35] <ion_> Better map d to the left-hand Control key and y to the numpad minus key.
[09:35] <cjwatson> similarly I think I could do it if I really had to
[09:35] <Mithrandir> understood; no, I don't have official access.
[09:41] <sponix> any plans on releasing an iso with the ATI fixes (Radeon X1400) ?
[09:42] <jdong> sponix: last word I heard was it's possible, once said fixes were available
[09:42] <sponix> hmm
[09:48] <sponix> I've seen two posted fixes, one is to run reconfigure on the X server, and the other for making the console work is changing the vga line in the grub menu.list
[09:49] <sponix> I've seen two posted fixes, one is to run reconfigure on the X server, and the other for making the console work is changing the vga line in the grub menu.list
[09:49] <cjwatson> ok, neither is suitable for proper integration, I suspect
[09:49] <cjwatson> (and the first sounds like guesswork; note that the live CD already runs reconfigure at boot)
[09:50] <cjwatson> //whois sponix
[09:50] <cjwatson> AIUI it's a driver regression and needs to be fixed in the drive
[09:50] <cjwatson> (damn lag :-))
[09:51] <cjwatson> driver
[09:56] <sponix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/89853
[09:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 89853 in xorg-server "[regression]  7.2 broke vesa: "No matching modes found"" [High,Needs info]  
[09:57] <sponix> I haven't verified this fix to work on my box yet though, I just installed the commercial 55Meg ati driver in a chroot after the alternate cd install :)
[09:57] <sponix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/89853
[09:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 89853 in xorg-server "[regression]  7.2 broke vesa: "No matching modes found"" [High,Needs info]  
[09:58] <sponix> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/2299https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/89853server/+bug/89853
[09:58] <sponix> this other one is more work-a-round for the console, easiest way is just to turn off the splash and going a normal vga text console ;)
[09:59] <sponix> cjwatson, I'm an nobody, just wanting to see if I can make a slight difference 
[10:00] <cjwatson> sponix: right, I'm just saying the bug needs to be fixed properly rather than scattergun releasing ISO images with dubious workarounds
[10:00] <cjwatson> Timo appears to be working on it already
[10:01] <cjwatson> (from the bug log)
[10:01] <sponix> ok
[10:01] <sponix> I see you're point there
[10:01] <sponix> my only other question, I've seen no work toward CAC (common access card) software, like fedora's coolkey
[10:01] <sponix> are there any plans in the works ?
[10:02] <cjwatson> attempts to fix it are appreciated, but releasing ISO images is actually a fair bit of work so it's best to take time to do it right
[10:02] <sponix> true, is it hard to make a custom ISO. and do you have links to any directions ?
[10:02] <sponix> wouldn't mind making my own build in the mean time, instead of hacking to h4x0r it every time I install
[10:03] <Hobbsee> sponix: info is on the wiki - easily findable
[10:03] <Hobbsee> search for reroll iso's live cds, etc.
[10:03] <sponix> Hobbsee, sweet
[10:03] <Hobbsee> first couple of links that come up
[10:20] <Treenaks> My biggest problem with the 'official' ubuntu isos is that they all set a graphics mode -- which breaks kvm on my remote server (and I have to forward X and use qemu for installation ;)
[10:54] <mpt> Those poor BSTQC guys keep releasing test results for one release when the next release is either out or nearly out
[10:55] <Treenaks> mpt: bstqc?
[10:56] <Fujitsu> mpt: Heheh, yeah.
[10:56] <Fujitsu> The testing they do is really impressive.
[11:23] <fabbione> Hobbsee: no i didn't know. i don't check logs and if nobody reports it, i won't fix it
[11:23] <Hobbsee> fabbione: right.  consider it half-reported :)
[11:24] <fabbione> i already fixed it
[11:24] <Hobbsee> woo :)
[11:24] <Hobbsee> thankyou
[11:24] <fabbione> but logs that are not logged == lost
[11:24] <Hobbsee> yeah, figured as much.  oh well
[11:24] <fabbione> nothing i can do or will do for it
[11:24] <fabbione> they are just irc logs
[11:24] <Hobbsee> of course
[11:25] <Hobbsee> true.  only thing i was interested in was the MOTU meeting, but someone else had a log of that :)
[11:27] <Kmos> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4946
[03:49] <vciaglia> hello
[03:57] <Enola_Gay> hi all
[03:57] <Enola_Gay> How can I debug Xorg crashes? There seems to be no dbg package anymore.
[03:59] <Treenaks> Enola_Gay: come back on Monday, pitti knows :)
[03:59] <Enola_Gay> Treenaks: thx
[04:00] <Enola_Gay> cu all
[08:08] <mario> hi folks
[08:08] <Nafallo> morning mat 
[08:08] <Nafallo> morning mario 
[08:09] <Nafallo> damn. lots of nicks on m :-P
[08:09] <mario> haha :)
[08:09] <mario> what's up Nafallo ? :)
[08:09] <Nafallo> not much at all, I'm afraid. :-)
[08:14] <mario> ah :)
[08:30] <mrmonday> are there any developers here who would be interested in doing an article explaining how ubuntu is developed for full circle magazine?
[08:30] <mrmonday> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/index.php/topic,73.0.html
[08:33] <mrmonday> no tkaers?
[08:33] <mrmonday> *takers?
[08:33] <Chipzz> mrmonday: it's weekend; most developers who might take it aren't present
[08:34] <mrmonday> ok
[08:34] <mrmonday> i will ask again tommorow
[08:39] <bmhm> hi every1
[08:42] <highvoltage> hey bmhm 
[08:43] <bmhm> argh... since 7.04 i can't boot anymore nor install it with GUI
[08:43] <bmhm> seems some framebuffer setting
[08:43] <bmhm> i wonder it did make into the release
[08:43] <jdong> bmhm: do you have an ATI Radeon X1nnn series card?
[08:44] <bmhm> almost, Radeon Mobility X700 (Laptop
[08:44] <bmhm> but i think they Do have similar issues
[08:44] <jdong> woudln't doubt if it's the same problem
[08:44] <jdong> bmhm: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=414194
[08:45] <bmhm> the funny thing is, even console won't work
[08:45] <jdong> the console doesn't work?
[08:45] <bmhm> thy i take a look at it
[08:45] <jdong> I would recommend (1) installing with the Alternate CD
[08:45] <jdong> (2) booting into recovery mode after install
[08:45] <jdong> (3) executing the given commands
[08:45] <jdong> hoping that you know how to get your network up from recovery mode?
[08:46] <bmhm> (1) done
[08:46] <bmhm> jdong: its always up, don't worry ;)
[08:46] <bmhm> I study informatics.. :P
[08:47] <jdong> ok, good luck man!
[08:47] <bmhm> but i doubt it will solve the missing boot screen, but anyway, i'll try it
[08:47] <jdong> missing boot screen... you mean the splash isn't working, and you're ending with blank consoles?
[08:47] <bmhm> jepp
[08:47] <bmhm> exactly
[08:48] <bmhm> hmmm... i had another very different bug with uspash before
[08:48] <jdong> mjg59: ^^ is this the same ATI bug that plagued Edgy pre-release? usplash...
[08:48] <bmhm> i couldnt install splash screens. instead a test picture was shown
[08:48] <jdong> bmhm: try booting with vga=791 and seeing if that gives you splash?
[08:48] <bmhm> uhm jdong i'm still in recovery mode
[08:48] <bmhm> hang on a second
[08:49] <jdong> well get your video drivers working first :D
[08:49] <jdong> that's top priority
[08:49] <jdong> missing pretty graphical boot... meh :)
[08:49] <bmhm> erm
[08:49] <bmhm> how to tell apt-get NOT to use the CD?
[08:49] <bmhm> i always forget where that file goes
[08:49] <jdong> remove it from sources.list 
[08:49] <jdong> /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:49] <bmhm> ty
[08:49] <jdong> np
[08:50] <bmhm> fine, I often forget these paths since i don't need them regularly
[08:51] <jdong> meh, don't sweat it. some of us feel bad for remembering this kind of stuff.
[08:51] <jdong> some of us have friends who torment me by printing off a list of /usr/bin and asking me what random things do...
[08:51] <jdong> oops pronoun switch.
[08:51] <bmhm> :>
[08:52] <bmhm> ok, rebooting, hang on :>
[08:52] <Nafallo> haha
[08:52] <Nafallo> jdong: tell them to man $i ;-)
[08:52] <jdong> Nafallo: they treat me as their manpage :D
[08:52] <jdong> *sigh* I need new friends that don't make fun of me for being a nerd :D
[08:52] <Nafallo> jdong: tell them you're not? :-)
[08:52] <bmhm> jdong: well, vga=791 works, but its misplaced *lol*
[08:53] <bmhm> anyway, its even coloured!! :D
[08:53] <bmhm> wow everything works :D
[08:53] <jdong> bmhm: look at /etc/usplash.conf
[08:53] <bmhm> thanks a lot man...
[08:53] <jdong> make sure the resolution in there is 1024, 768
[08:53] <bmhm> well no
[08:53] <bmhm> 1280x800 actually
[08:53] <bmhm> 15,4" laptop
[08:53] <jdong> no,  but 791=1024x768 :)
[08:53] <bmhm> ah i see
[08:57] <sladen> could I borrow somebody's eyes about  bug #109679  look in /etc/init.d/hotkey-setup  at the 'stop' code.  The only way I can come up for it to fail is 'kill' with no state-file
[08:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 109679 in hotkey-setup "hotkey-setup pre-rm script can return failure (fiesty upgrade failure)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109679
[09:00] <bmhm> jdong: one last thing if I may... bcm43xx or ndiswrapper? :)
[09:01] <jdong> bmhm: I've heard more people get ndiswrapper working than bcm43xx
[09:01] <jdong> but I am inexperienced with that chipset. I tend to run far far away
[09:01] <bmhm> yeah, so did i in 32bit
[09:01] <bmhm> yeah you really should
[09:01] <jdong> however, broadcom+ndiswrapper = no network-manager
[09:01] <bmhm> its awefull
[09:01] <bmhm> well no...
[09:01] <jdong> you have to use wifi-radar , or etc/network/interfaces traditional
[09:01] <bmhm> in 6.10 i made it work...
[09:01] <jdong> it cuts out every time network-manager tries to do a scan
[09:01] <jdong> which is like once every few minutes :D
[09:02] <bmhm> well no ^^
[09:02] <bmhm> in 6.10 i used 2 managers at once
[09:02] <bmhm> gnome-network for calbe
[09:02] <bmhm> gnome-network-manager for wirelss
[09:02] <bmhm> worked brilliant
[09:02] <jdong> interesting
[09:03] <Nafallo> gnome-network-manager?
[09:03] <bmhm> sth like this
[09:03] <Nafallo> s/gnome-// ?
[09:03] <bmhm> i forgot their names
[09:03] <jdong> I had a friend who consistently had network-manager drop out on iwlist wlan0 scan
[09:03] <bmhm> hrhr
[09:03] <Nafallo> ah
[09:03] <jdong> which n-m likes to do once in a while
[09:03] <bmhm> well i used both at once
[09:03] <jdong> as I said, I run far far away from that chipset :D
[09:03] <bmhm> however, ndiswrapper didn't work in amd64
[09:03] <bmhm> yeah
[09:03] <bmhm> its built in...
[09:04] <jdong> I wouldn't be surprised if the 'wrapper didn't work in 64-bit
[09:05] <jdong> I heard FC7t4 has working iwlwifi?
[09:11] <bmhm> restarting xchat
[09:11] <bmhm> brb cya
[09:19] <bmhm> re
[09:19] <bmhm> jdong: still - the boot logo is misplaced
[09:19] <bmhm> i added vga=791 to menu.lst
[09:20] <jdong> and verified that usplash.conf is set to 1024x768?
[09:20] <sladen> jdong: iwlwifi?
[09:20] <bmhm> yes it is, jdong 
[09:20] <bmhm> reason is the laptops widescreen?
[09:21] <jdong> sladen: Intel's new binary-daemon-less ipw3945
[09:21] <jdong> sladen: it's in Feisty too, but doesn't work well, so we still use ipw3495
[09:21] <jdong> apparently it works in FC7T4
[09:21] <jdong> that'd be great news -- at least Centrino Duo will have working wifi out of the box for Fedora
[09:22] <jdong> bmhm: the reason is that ATI is cursed :)
[09:22] <jdong> bmhm: that's the extent of my usplash knowledge :)
[09:22] <bmhm> yeah you're right :>
[09:22] <bmhm> hmm
[09:22] <jdong> I have a mobility radeon x1400
[09:22] <jdong> I totally feel your pain
[09:22] <bmhm> :)
[09:22] <jdong> but my usplash somehow works correctly
[09:22] <jdong> lol
[09:22] <bmhm> acer_acpi won't work anymore... draht... my wifi will never ever work
[09:23] <jdong> sounds like ... fun?
[09:23] <bmhm> ah i found some forum threads
[09:25] <jdong> yay! forums to the rescue :)
[09:27] <jdong> BenC_: fglrx 8.36.5 confirmed working reliably on my system; so it's probably safe for gutsy lrm
[09:28] <Alternati> how do i help
[09:28] <Alternati> i want a job with ubuntu, can i have an application?
[09:28] <Soccrmastr> Alternati, was just gonan suggest you come here heh
[09:29] <sladen> Alternati: Ubuntu is a community project.  Some companies (like Canonical) do employee people to work on Ubuntu
[09:29] <bhale> http://www.ubuntu.com/employment
[09:29] <sladen> Alternati: http://www.ubuntu.com/employment
[09:29] <Alternati> wow
[09:29] <Alternati> does it pay good
[09:30] <Soccrmastr> ..........
[09:30] <sladen> Alternati: that depends on what you manage to negioate with you employer, and whether you feel that it is a "good deal"
[09:31] <khermans> can someone update packages.ubuntu.com to make feisty the default in the drop down lists please
[09:31] <pygi> Alternati, mind them, please read this: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[09:31] <jdong> khermans: try e-mailing the address on the site... tha'ts worked for me in the past
[09:31] <khermans> jdong, thx
[09:31] <Alternati> wow it looks cool
[09:32] <Alternati> how did you guys do it
[09:32] <jdong> not all of us who work on Ubuntu are being paid to do so
[09:32] <jdong> in fact, many if not most of us are volunteers that work out of our good heart :)
[09:32] <Soccrmastr> what exactly is the payoff though, for you personally
[09:32] <Alternati> i mean how did you learn all this stuff
[09:33] <Alternati> how long have u been computing
[09:33] <jdong> I first started using a computer when I was 8... been a computer nerd ever since
[09:33] <Alternati> how old are you now?
[09:33] <jdong> got involved with Linux like 5 years ago
[09:33] <jdong> I'm 18
[09:33] <Alternati> i have been using a computer since about 6
[09:33] <Alternati> and im 19 now
[09:33] <Alternati> and i still cant do shit
[09:33] <pygi> lol
[09:33] <Alternati> its amazing how some people learn
[09:34] <Alternati> i smoke too much weed is the thing
[09:34] <cjwatson_> Alternati: I think most of our developers are pretty much self-taught, but don't worry too much, I didn't start Debian development until I was 20
[09:34] <Alternati> instead of doing technical stuff i play counter-strike
[09:34] <cjwatson_> hmm, no, 21 I think
[09:34] <Soccrmastr> I am a large contributor to Ubuntu development, I am 14 and have gotten into Linux about a year and a half ago.
[09:34] <highvoltage> *sigh*. I feel so old.
[09:34] <Alternati> 14?!
[09:34] <Alternati> amazing!!
[09:34] <Alternati> barely learned to walk a day ago
[09:34] <Soccrmastr> lol im jk Im not a developer but I am 14... 0.o
[09:34] <Alternati> i feal so stupid
[09:35] <jdong> Alternati: there is no age requirement around here; there's people of all ages and walks of life
[09:35] <Alternati> its amazing what marijauna does to the mind
[09:35] <Alternati> isnt it?
[09:35] <highvoltage> Soccrmastr: are you sacater by any chance?
[09:35] <sladen> I think there's #ubuntu-offtopic  to discuss that
[09:35] <highvoltage> Alternati: it's actually quite messed up what it does to your mind
[09:35] <Alternati> lol
[09:35] <Alternati> i wish i hadnt smoked so much, so i could learn about linux
[09:35] <highvoltage> Alternati: as sladen said, #ubuntu-offtopic is the place to discuss this
[09:35] <Alternati> im going to download linux now and learn
[09:36] <Soccrmastr> sacater?
[09:36] <Alternati> linux is ana amazing future for all of us
[09:36] <mc44> sladen: actually drug talk isnt allowed in -offftopic :)
[09:36] <highvoltage> Soccrmastr: he's also 14 years old and got involved with Ubuntu quite recently
[09:36] <Alternati> we could all make operating sysstems if we all used linux
[09:36] <Alternati> think about it
[09:36] <Alternati> we have to spread the word
[09:36] <highvoltage> Alternati: #ubuntu-marketing
[09:37] <Soccrmastr> I started with Ubuntu, "moved on" to gentoo, but that install was all sloppy since it was my first try.
[09:37] <Alternati> whoa
[09:37] <Alternati> and ur 14?
[09:37] <jdong> Soccrmastr: hey hey, another Gentoo user. I was a Gentoo user before I got involved with Ubuntu
[09:37] <Alternati> when i was 14 i used to kick people off of AIM and i thought i was smart on computers
[09:37] <Alternati> and i never advanced after that
[09:37] <Alternati> too much weed
[09:38] <Alternati> MARIJUANA!!!!
[09:38] <Alternati> MARY JANE
[09:38] <jdong> back on topic... can an Archive Manager estimate for me ETA till the next Backports processing date?
[09:38] <Alternati> IM IN LOVE WITH MARY JANE
[09:38] <jdong> Alternati: that's enough :)
[09:39] <jdong> also, whoever is processing backports, unless otherwise stated, pull from Feisty.... I have not tested any newly synced gusty versions!
[09:39] <Alternati> do you not approve of drugs?
[09:39] <Alternati> hey, isnt linux for mostly liberals?
[09:39] <Alternati> or not?
[09:39] <cjwatson> jdong: you need to mention that in each backport request
[09:39] <jdong> cjwatson: I will be more consistently explicit in version numbers from now on
[09:40] <cjwatson> best to mention feisty though; version numbers are more easily skimmed over by accident
[09:40] <jdong> ok
[09:40] <Soccrmastr> jdong: why did yous witch from gentoo to Ubuntu?
[09:40] <Alternati> is linux for liberals mostly?
[09:40] <jdong> I'll post madison-lite lines from now on -- version and distro
[09:40] <bmhm> ah it works
[09:40] <bmhm> well almost
[09:40] <bmhm> nm-manager is its name
[09:40] <jdong> Soccrmastr: too much work administering the system, and the development community could be really rough at times
[09:41] <cjwatson> ok, guess I wasn't doing much else right now
[09:41] <bmhm> it can't manage wireless connections, since gnome-network-manager is using it
[09:41] <jdong> thanks cjwatson :)
[09:41] <zul_> jdong: rough? thats a bit of an understatement
[09:41] <jdong> zul_: I was trying to be polite :)
[09:42] <cjwatson> interesting, edgy-security -> dapper-backports
[09:42] <cjwatson> wonder if backport-source can do that ...
[09:42] <jdong> cjwatson: haha I try to keep it interesting for you :)
[09:42] <bmhm> jdong: how do i force gnome-network-manager NOT to manage my wifi?
[09:42] <bmhm> i can only set "roaming" or "on"
[09:42] <cjwatson> canonical.launchpad.webapp.interfaces.NotFoundError: 'edgy-security'
[09:42] <cjwatson> sigh
[09:42] <bmhm> :(
[09:43] <jdong> bmhm: OT for this channel, but by telling /etc/network/interaces to manage it NM will lay off
[09:43] <cjwatson> aha, backporting from edgy does it since the version in -security is the newest across the whole distrorelease
[09:43] <jdong> cjwatson: cool
[09:43] <bmhm> hmm didnt work... wah i try myself
[09:45] <Alternati> is debian super fast?
[09:45] <Alternati> will it run faster than windows xp?
[09:45] <jdong> Alternati: this is not the right channel for those questions
[09:45] <jdong> ask in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-offtopic, etc
[09:45] <Alternati> DUDE FUCK YOUI IM HIGH
[09:45] <Alternati> I CANT CHANGE CHANNELS
[09:45] <cjwatson> Alternati: please relax
[09:46] <Alternati> im making a list
[09:46] <cjwatson> this is a development coordination channel, and developers often spend some time in the morning reading scrollback; best not to waste that time too much :)
[09:47] <Alternati> i wish i could be all professional
[09:48] <ion_> Its a popular misconception that being intoxicated is a permission to be an ass. :-)
[09:48] <Alternati> why who wroter rules
[09:48] <Alternati> u cant say it is or is not permission
[09:51] <Alternati> its all about control
[09:51] <Alternati> people like u always cry for the whales
[09:51] <maxamillion> YES!!!! the ban!!!!
[09:51] <maxamillion> that's what i was waiting for .... 
[09:51] <maxamillion> thanks for the show :)
[09:52] <mc44> cjwatson: that ban might be a little vague
[09:53] <bhale> mc44: it only needs 5 minutes
[09:54] <poningru> anyone know what's going on with the new wifi stuff?
[09:54] <poningru> i.e d80211
[09:54] <jdong> poningru: which new wifi stuff?
[09:55] <poningru> I guess I should ask this in -kernel
[09:55] <jdong> we already have it in our kernel tree....
[09:55] <poningru> but I have no idea where to ask about this
[09:55] <poningru> we do?
[09:55] <jdong> mac80211, btw :D
[09:55] <jdong> yep
[09:55] <poningru> I thought it was unstable like crazy
[09:55] <jdong> it's all in Feisty
[09:55] <poningru> 0.0
[09:55] <jdong> most of those drivers aren't used by default
[09:55] <jdong> but yeah, I know iwlwifi was pretty unusable in Feisty
[09:55] <poningru> so not all wifi devices will use the stack yet?
[09:55] <jdong> hence it's not default.
[09:56] <jdong> correct, not all drivers use the stack
[09:56] <poningru> do we have a page somewhere that lists the drivers that do use it?
[09:56] <poningru> and 'how can I help?'
[09:56] <jdong> poningru: find /lib/modules/`uname -r` | grep mac80211
[09:57] <jdong> and probably some more than that
[09:57] <poningru> oh no wai
[09:57] <poningru> bcm is using the new stack?
[09:57] <jdong> there is a variant of bcm that does
[09:57] <poningru> is that being used in feisty?
[09:57] <jdong> I'm also pretty sure that's not the default bcm43xx used :D
[09:58] <poningru> lsmod | grep bcm
[09:58] <poningru> bcm43xx               125332  0 
[09:58] <poningru> ieee80211softmac       31232  1 bcm43xx
[09:58] <poningru> ieee80211              34760  2 bcm43xx,ieee80211softmac
[09:58] <poningru> so... am I using it now?
[09:59] <jdong> nope
[09:59] <johanbr> There are two versions, bcm43xx and bxm43xx-mac80211. Looks like you're using bcm43xx.
[09:59] <jdong> you're using the ieee80211 version
[09:59] <poningru> I'm using the 4318 chipset do you know if it will work with the newer module?
[10:00] <poningru> I guess I can just experiment and find out
[10:01] <jdong> LOL I just had a stack of e-mails from Ubuntu Installer libnotify me
[10:01] <jdong> that was FUN!
[10:06] <highvoltage> ubuntu installer has its own folder in my mail client :)
[10:06] <sacater> gah
[10:06] <sacater> hello?
[10:07] <highvoltage> hey sacater 
[10:07] <sacater> no
[10:07] <sacater> i am me
[10:07] <sacater> sacater
[10:07] <sacater> soccrmaster is not me
[10:07] <highvoltage> sacater: yes, figured that out :)
[10:07] <sacater> i is me, me is i
[10:07] <sacater> highvoltage: go onto gizmo
[10:08] <highvoltage> sacater: I don't have a mic with me atm :/
[10:08] <cjwatson> whoa, way too much in edgy-backports NEW
[10:12] <Q-FUNK> howdy!  is anybody working on packaging network-manager 0.6.5 ?
[10:15] <ion_> q-funk: What are its release highlights? (I can check for myself after this movie, but perhaps youd be willing to list them in the meantime. :-) )
[10:16] <Q-FUNK> ion_: among other thngs, support for stage 2 authentication options with wpa_suplicant and with vpn plug-ins
[10:17] <Q-FUNK> ion_: which is precisely what I need to be able to use n-m with the corporate network. ;)
[10:17] <ion_> q-funk: Alright. No support for per-network static configurations yet, though?
[10:17] <Q-FUNK> ion_: that, I haven't noticed.
[10:18] <Q-FUNK> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/NetworkManager/0.6/NetworkManager-0.6.5.changes
[10:18] <Q-FUNK> I'm currently reading through the changelog
[10:18] <ion_> Thanks, ill take a look at that later.
[10:18] <cjwatson> ooh, could be that's what I need to use WPA in the London office
[10:19] <Q-FUNK> I am mostly interested in those advanced authentication methods.  I cannot log into my employer's network with out that.
[10:19] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: could vey well be.  does it need MSCHAPv2 ?
[10:20] <cjwatson> just WPA-PSK AFAIK but I'm not particularly well up on the acronym soup so don't bother probing for further details :)
[10:20] <Mithrandir> ion_: that'd be a 0.7 thing, I believe.
[10:20] <Q-FUNK> ;)
[10:20] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: why won't just current NM work for you?
[10:20] <wasabi> bah somebody made `mythtv` a reserved username
[10:21] <Mithrandir> Q-FUNK: no, ttbomk nobody is working on packaging it.
[10:21] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: how should I know? :)
[10:21] <cjwatson> but it doesn't
[10:21] <wasabi> i really dislike how we use reserved names  for stuff heh
[10:21] <cjwatson> wasabi: yes, me.
[10:21] <cjwatson> because, well, it is
[10:21] <wasabi> =( broke my mythtv box on feisty upgrade. =(
[10:21] <cjwatson> er
[10:21] <Q-FUNK> assides from support for configuring stage two of EAP, another bug is that when using the VPN plugins, it would need to change the resolv.conf to resolve via the vpn's ns.
[10:21] <cjwatson> ok, you don't mean the change I made then
[10:21] <Q-FUNK> Mithrandir: ttbomk?
[10:21] <wasabi> Dunno. The post-inst script seems to be trying to chgrp something to mythtv
[10:22] <wasabi> but no such group exists.
[10:22] <Mithrandir> to the best of my knowledge.
[10:22] <cjwatson> the change I made was to tell the installer that that username was reserved
[10:22] <Q-FUNK> ah
[10:22] <wasabi> because it failed to create the group. because it failed to create the user. because I already have a user.  at least that's what it looks like.
[10:22] <wasabi> ahh. hmm
[10:39] <_StefanS_> hi there
[10:39] <_StefanS_> anyone know the channel name for the PS3 ubuntu ?
[10:40] <cjwatson> _StefanS_: I don't believe there's a specific one
[10:40] <sladen> _StefanS_: not sure if there is one, /query bcollins
[10:41] <cjwatson> that's not Ben's nick for starters
[10:41] <cjwatson> and anyway Ben is travelling
[10:41] <cjwatson> _StefanS_: what's the problem?
[10:41] <_StefanS_> well I was trying to figure out whether that 15% lockup problem on the livecd's where getting solved
[10:42] <cjwatson> it's known, best fix at the moment is to use xubuntu
[10:42] <_StefanS_> I'm just installing using the alternate cd right now, but the regular cd's should work as well :)
[10:42] <_StefanS_> err.. have the xubuntu fixed the installer?
[10:42] <cjwatson> Ben narrowed it down - the thing that's happening at that point is that swap is disabled in order for partitioning to happen
[10:42] <cjwatson> no, it's just that Xubuntu takes less memory so disabling swap doesn't kill the system
[10:43] <cjwatson> it's not actually an installer bug
[10:43] <_StefanS_> ah..
[10:43] <_StefanS_> well 256mb should be enough for everyone... hmm or whatever it goes like :)
[10:43] <_StefanS_> thanks for the info
[10:44] <cjwatson> we noticed significant slowdown in installation from feisty beta to final with 256MB
[10:44] <cjwatson> it doesn't seem to correspond to any particular process using more memoy
[10:44] <cjwatson> memory
[10:44] <_StefanS_> uhm, well guess it should using alot less for a cd only based system
[10:44] <cjwatson> it may well be a leak in the kernel or something, but I don't think anyone's diagnosed it yet, unfortunately
[10:44] <cjwatson> actually running from CD takes more memory, not less
[10:45] <_StefanS_> ah yep ofcourse
[10:45] <_StefanS_> I must be tired hehe
[10:45] <_StefanS_> well, I would like to help bcollins if he needs to have stuff tested
[10:45] <_StefanS_> I mean its not like the ps3 is something everyone has :)
[10:46] <_StefanS_> thanks for the help
[11:13] <wasabi> anybody else ever think we should allocate some prefix for reserved usernames? =/
[11:16] <sladen> wasabi: like what?
[11:16] <wasabi> doesn't really matter to me.   s:blah
[11:16] <wasabi> it goes against everything ever done on any posix system that i'm aware of.
[11:17] <wasabi> but I'm sure tired of dealing with this problem over and over again. ;)
[11:31] <sladen> wasabi: ah, ISWYM, I thought you were talking about IRC nicks
[11:31] <wasabi> oh, no.