[04:00] <elkbuntu> Ok people
[04:00] <elkbuntu> who do we have here for the LoCo Teams meeting?
[04:01] <pochu> yo
[04:01] <elkbuntu> sure, no prob
[04:01] <elkbuntu> who else?
[04:02] <elkbuntu> i'll give it 5 before we start so people have a chance to turn up
[04:05] <elkbuntu> ok, show of hands for the LoCo Teams Meeting
[04:05] <jono> yo
[04:05] <pochu> me
[04:05] <elkbuntu> hey jono, just baout to start
[04:05] <pochu> hey jono
[04:06] <jono> hey
[04:06] <elkbuntu> Ok, so we're here to discuss what we want to be discussed about LoCos at the UDS next week
[04:07] <elkbuntu> Based on the feedback we got through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoReview i have registered 3 specs, which I hope will go to the summit. They're at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSSevillaSpecs
[04:08] <elkbuntu> take a moment to read those, and then feel free to ask/comment
[04:12] <elkbuntu> ok, anyone?
[04:12] <pochu> elkbuntu: what about name policy?
[04:12] <elkbuntu> pochu, that comes under 'definition'
[04:12] <pochu> yeah :)
[04:13] <jono> dammit, I have to run, back soon
[04:15] <amachu> hi
[04:15] <Med-Wei|Sara> Hi.
[04:15] <elkbuntu> for those just joining for the meeting:
 Based on the feedback we got through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoReview i have registered 3 specs, which I hope will go to the summit. They're at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSSevillaSpecs
 take a moment to read those, and then feel free to ask/comment
[04:18] <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, like, comment here, or add something to the wiki pages? what would you prefer us to do?
[04:18] <amachu> elkbuntu: i would like to add
[04:18] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, both
[04:18] <elkbuntu> what is your comment?
[04:18] <amachu> the co-ordination we have with Sri Lankan Tamils
[04:18] <markvandenborre> resources: banners and stuff
[04:19] <markvandenborre> is just one example
[04:19] <amachu> also be added to the positive things happening around....
[04:19] <Belutz> hi all i'm from Indonesian LoCo
[04:19] <markvandenborre> hi
[04:19] <amachu> I will add it now..
[04:19] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, while i feel that comes under: * Resource availability - What is and is not available to teams. This has changed recently and some are confused.
[04:19] <elkbuntu> feel free to add it to the page
[04:19] <markvandenborre> it falls under that item, of course
[04:20] <markvandenborre> it's mostly about stuff that has to be sourced new and will be of no use except for to promote ubuntu
[04:21] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, i intentionally avoided strictly defining certain things in the specs, to avoid restricting discussion
[04:21] <elkbuntu> ok, amachu. what about coordination?
[04:22] <amachu> elkbuntu: its on translation efforts
[04:22] <elkbuntu> amachu, explain further please
[04:23] <amachu> elkbuntu: tamil is language spoken both in TamilNadu, India & SriLanka
[04:23] <amachu> so we decided to share common things among us
[04:24] <amachu> we approched the Tamil speaking members of SriLankan team
[04:24] <elkbuntu> amachu, and what is the concern? there should be a translation team to cover the language, but the locos should still be seperate identities
[04:25] <amachu> i think its not needed... if proper co-ordination can be achieved..
[04:25] <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, you can't separate translation and language entirely
[04:25] <amachu> LoCo teams can happen to be geography based
[04:25] <markvandenborre> remember a discussion at UDS Mountain View?
[04:25] <amachu> russell: can u share about your experience with Bengali Team
[04:25] <markvandenborre> I was not very awake at the time
[04:25] <markvandenborre> I think I can explain more clearly now
[04:26] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, not entirely, but the translation efforts, while a project of the loco, should not be confined to a loco
[04:26] <markvandenborre> of course they don't have to
[04:27] <markvandenborre> the situation for ubuntu-nl.org and ubuntu-be.org
[04:27] <Ekushey> amachu, our target group are school going kids and university students
[04:27] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, that's what im trying to say here. the locos could easily form translation subteams within them, and the culmination of these subteams would form a language team
[04:27] <amachu> Ekushey: ok..
[04:28] <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, that's overstructuring things I'm afraid, and not a solution to everything
[04:28] <Ekushey> amachu, the responce is very good... i get atleast 2 phone calls everyday from ppl who wants to use ubuntu or run into problems
[04:28] <Med-Wei|Sara> amachu: Does translations have some slighty different between nations?
[04:28] <markvandenborre> take Belgium and Holland
[04:28] <amachu> elkbuntu: now, that has to be done in unison with upstream also
[04:28] <markvandenborre> and the dutch language
[04:28] <amachu> Med-Wei|Sara: Yes
[04:28] <amachu> very little though
[04:29] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, there doesnt have to be structure, but if structure is needed for the sake of coordination, it should be use
[04:29] <rafael_carreras> amachu: but significant
[04:29] <amachu> Ekushey: i too have started getting calls
[04:29] <markvandenborre> the use of nl in online services is important for reaching a certain critical mass amongst the speakers of the language
[04:29] <markvandenborre> not only in translations
[04:31] <elkbuntu> this is why we need to discuss definition
[04:31] <markvandenborre> which is why ubuntu-be.org did not create a separate forum
[04:31] <markvandenborre> ok, so that's something for Sevilla then, sorry
[04:32] <markvandenborre> I just wanted to make sure that the distinction between
[04:32] <markvandenborre> 1. translation
[04:32] <markvandenborre> 2. online-only services
[04:32] <markvandenborre> and 3. really location bound services
[04:32] <markvandenborre> is made in these discussions
[04:32] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, that's why it's proposed for sevilla
[04:34] <amachu> elkbuntu: on LoCo resources.. It would be nice to have the databases upgraded to latest versions
[04:35] <amachu> elkbuntu: we do have problems that we could not upgade to latest version of mediawiki due the the server not supporting it
[04:36] <elkbuntu> amachu, ok, note it on the review page please
[04:36] <amachu> so, periodic upgration of server is the key point to be noted here
[04:36] <amachu> elkbuntu: sure
[04:36] <amachu> any comments on this
[04:37] <elkbuntu> i'll comment that it's at the sysadmin discretion, and they already get plenty of ribbing for accidental downtime ;)
[04:38] <amachu> elkbuntu: :-)
[04:38] <amachu> On LoCo definition,
[04:39] <amachu> We are indeed a Team representing a State of India
[04:39] <elkbuntu> amachu, does india have a team to cover all of it?
[04:40] <amachu> elkbuntu: yes.. we do have Ubuntu-in.. but 1 billion population to toooooooooo big for it to cover
[04:40] <amachu> ;-)
[04:40] <elkbuntu> amachu, i am aware, i was just making sure there was complete coverage
[04:40] <amachu> I have recently noticed budding Andrapradesh Team
[04:41] <amachu> another neighbouring state of us
[04:42] <elkbuntu> amachu, do all these indian state teams cooperate like for instance the US state teams do?
[04:42] <amachu> well, Yes
[04:42] <amachu> with Ubuntu India team we do
[04:43] <elkbuntu> cool
[04:43] <amachu> elkbuntu: andra team is yet to grow and get approved
[04:43] <amachu> i had recently established contact with them.. no not much of interaction..
[04:44] <elkbuntu> there's no one firm rule that can be applied to all teams and circumstances, but there are cases where exceptions and additional structure is required. that is what we are hoping to decide, discuss etc at the summit
[04:44] <lifeless> night all
[04:44] <elkbuntu> amachu, you're trying, that's enough
[04:44] <elkbuntu> night lifeless
[04:45] <amachu> now.. LoCo Resources.. we can have some place in Ubuntu Site, we have can have our special appeals made
[04:45] <amachu> like request for funding at a global level
[04:45] <amachu> for LoCo specific projects
[04:45] <Ekushey> elkbuntu, regarding the "state" teams, i've a question... shouldn't there be a rule on when "state" or divistional teams can be formed? maybe based on population and size of the country?
[04:45] <elkbuntu> i dont know. that is what needs discussing. resources has afaik never been formally discussed, this is why it is top priority as far as i am concerned
[04:46] <elkbuntu> Ekushey, indeed. one  of the things that will be discussed
[04:46] <nixternal> good mornin'!
[04:46] <elkbuntu> moin nixternal!
[04:46] <amachu> while LoCo sites are their language specific and the number of hits is low to their site and more to Ubuntu site
[04:46] <amachu> some link in Ubuntu site where LoCo appeals can be put forth
[04:47] <amachu> and coming to LoCo Collaboration,
[04:48] <amachu> we did identified a person as it has been stated in the page for education.. and it was in the mid of the academic year
[04:48] <amachu> now its summer vacation for schools here, we need to trigger it up
[04:48] <elkbuntu> yep
[04:48] <amachu> also the Ubuntu LoCo derivative project
[04:48] <Ekushey> elkbuntu, oh ok... USA and India are big counties, so they can have divisional teams. But if people from smaller countries start making divisional LoCo teams without consulting with the country team, then it will only lead to grouping.
[04:49] <markvandenborre> amachu, derivative project is dead
[04:49] <amachu> markvandenborre: but we need it
[04:49] <amachu> :-(
[04:49] <markvandenborre> we need information about creating localised iso's
[04:49] <markvandenborre> better documentation of that would be a great resource to locoteams
[04:50] <elkbuntu> Ekushey, indeed. at any point where there's multiple teams per locale, it's best to have a 'coop' group to make sure there's communication. they'd do things sort of like this meeting here, but on a local level
[04:50] <Ekushey> u r right markvandenborre
[04:50] <amachu> LoCo derivative project is the foremost resource that we expect..
[04:50] <markvandenborre> which is why I added it to the "things that don't work" page
[04:50] <amachu> and we would be much pleased to have one mentor atleast
[04:50] <Ekushey> elkbuntu, got that, thanks
[04:51] <amachu> for that
[04:51] <markvandenborre> what I would like to find out is how to measure our relevance
[04:51] <markvandenborre> as locoteams
[04:52] <elkbuntu> ok. as a basic concept as you'd propose for a spec, how would you go about it?
[04:52] <markvandenborre> towards Canonical, towards press, towards our team members
[04:53] <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, maybe I can drop something on the wiki about it?
[04:53] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, please
[04:53] <markvandenborre> on a separate spec page?
[04:53] <markvandenborre> ok
[04:54] <elkbuntu> mention it on the review page, and bulk it out on a spec page
[04:54] <markvandenborre> ok
[04:56] <amachu> elkbuntu: any commnets from you on Ubuntu Derivative Project
[04:56] <amachu> we had gr8 expectations from that
[04:56] <markvandenborre> there was no such project, only in name
[04:56] <amachu> markvandenborre: yes..
[04:57] <markvandenborre> the Canonical developers I have talked to have stated clearly that they have no interest in creating localised iso's themselves
[04:57] <elkbuntu> amachu, given derivatives can be for any reason, i think that it probably goes beyond the scope of LoCos
[04:57] <markvandenborre> but they are willing to help out people who have done their research with questions on how to create iso's
[04:57] <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, I think amachu has a point here
[04:58] <markvandenborre> when he stresses the importance of localised cd's
[04:58] <amachu> elkbuntu: yes..
[04:58] <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, i agree they are important, however if a project was to exist, it would be for far more than just localisation
[04:59] <amachu> I feel its not beyond the scope.. but needs extra efforts to be put
[04:59] <amachu> elkbuntu: exactly
[04:59] <elkbuntu> and it is beyond my knowledge to comment on how, or by whom they should be done
[04:59] <amachu> elkbuntu: we dream beyond localisation
[04:59] <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, the main action point that could be taken is probably
[04:59] <Med-Wei|Sara> how about apt-on-cd packages isofile?
[05:00] <amachu> elkbuntu: but the first step alone is localisation
[05:00] <markvandenborre> to make sure localisation documentation and utilities grow towards something unified and well maintained
[05:00] <amachu> elkbuntu: like developing applications thats specific to our region
[05:00] <markvandenborre> hm, that sounds fluffy, sorry
[05:01] <amachu> elkbuntu: and adding it to that ditro.. and these applications need not have transaltions in all languages
[05:01] <elkbuntu> amachu, there are already localised versions that have been made by teams already, maybe it is best talking to them?
[05:01] <Ekushey> localised+customised version of ubuntu is very important... for example, majority of the computer users in bangladesh are using pentium II and III PCs with 128 MB of RAM... installing Ubuntu on these machines can be a scary experinece
[05:01] <amachu> elkbuntu: yep.. mdke suggested to contact italian team
[05:02] <amachu> elkbuntu: i will do that
[05:02] <elkbuntu> amachu, then that is a good starting point
[05:02] <amachu> elkbuntu: ok
[05:03] <Ekushey> elkbuntu, i'm not clear abt the ubuntu trademark pocily abt the customised/localised versions
[05:03] <markvandenborre> read it, it's really clear
[05:03] <elkbuntu> Ekushey, that you need to talk to canonical about. IANAL
[05:03] <amachu> i had added that to community council agenda, when i too felt its dying
[05:04] <amachu> hope we make it there to put forth our points
[05:04] <Ekushey> on the last CC meeting, there was some discussion abt it... but sadly i couldn't follow the entire conversion
[05:04] <pleia2> Ekushey: have you read: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy ?
[05:04] <Ekushey> pleia2 yes i've read it
[05:04] <pleia2> the same is true for loco teams
[05:05] <amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:05] <amachu> its happening on May 16
[05:05] <Ekushey> pleia2, i still have some confusions, so i'll add it to the next meeting agenda
[05:05] <amachu> markvandenborre: how about your comments on raising it there?
[05:06] <amachu> markvandenborre: can we hope to bring life ?
[05:06] <elkbuntu> Ekushey, trademarks@canonical.com can be asked any trademark questions you might have
[05:07] <markvandenborre> amachu, what are you talking about?
[05:07] <Med-Wei|Sara> The term free can be two definitions, freedom and gratis. There is a problem that Chinese doesn't have a word covering those. I got the problem when I translate some introdution documents.
[05:07] <markvandenborre> about documentation for creating derivatives?
[05:07] <amachu> markvandenborre: about raising the derivative issue to CC
[05:07] <markvandenborre> amachu, I don't see why it should be raised at the CC
[05:07] <markvandenborre> the job needs to be done
[05:08] <Ekushey> elkbuntu, ok thanks
[05:08] <amachu> markvandenborre: ok
[05:08] <markvandenborre> centralising, creating and updating localisation documentation is what needs to be done imho
[05:08] <markvandenborre> mostly, creating awareness about that
[05:09] <amachu> markvandenborre: ok
[05:10] <markvandenborre> you don't have to agree, but I don't see any other way
[05:10] <amachu> and in a Longer perpective.. we need to have professionals to promote Ubuntu in LoCo regions
[05:10] <amachu> since LoCo is more of voluntary nature
[05:11] <amachu> and if Bug #1 need to fixed, we need to have
[05:11] <amachu> thats taking it far tooooooo beyond I believe.. and in the scope of canonical :-)
[05:12] <elkbuntu> Ok, unless anyone has anything else urgent...
[05:12] <Ekushey> I'm sorry but i've go now... take care all. Bye bye amachu, elkbuntu, markvandenborre, pleia2 and others.
[05:12] <markvandenborre> Ekushey, bye
[05:13] <elkbuntu> I'm going to call the meeting closed then. Thanks all!
[05:13] <amachu> elkbuntu: thank u
[05:13] <amachu> Thank You every one
[05:13] <amachu> :-)