[11:51] <mbiebl> Md: Did you have any problem with switching to upstart?
[11:58] <Md> mbiebl: actually I have not rebooted yet :-)
[11:59] <mbiebl> Ah, ok. I've been hacking a bit on native upstart jobs over the weekend.
[11:59] <mbiebl> The results are pretty promising: http://debs.michaelbiebl.de/upstart/bootchart.png
[12:01] <mbiebl> Works pretty good so far.
[12:02] <Md> the next obvious step should be running fsck/mount asyncronously from udev
[12:03] <Amaranth> mbiebl: 19 seconds from grub to X?
[12:03] <mbiebl> Amaranth: Yes, including initramfs
[12:03] <mbiebl> It's a 3 year old laptop. 
[12:03] <Amaranth> _damn_
[12:03] <Amaranth> i'm sitting at 35 seconds for my laptop and it's less than a year old :)
[12:03] <Amaranth> I think I need to do some trimming
[12:04] <mbiebl> I have to admit, if I switch to gdm instead of entranced, it adds another 8 secs. (gdm is just so slow...)
[12:05] <Amaranth> heh
[12:05] <ion_> entranced, huh? Hadnt heard of that one.
[12:05] <ion_> % apt-cache search entrance
[12:05] <mbiebl> e17 login manager
[12:05] <ion_> % 
[12:05] <ion_> Ah.
[12:05] <Amaranth> gdm is a key part of a couple nice gnome features
[12:06] <mbiebl> Still, I think gdm needs some serious profiling ;-)
[12:07] <mbiebl> Even kdm is a lot faster.
[12:07] <Amaranth> either way if with gdm you can get a 27 second boot i should be able to get 13 seconds or something :)
[12:08] <mbiebl> Which fs do you use for / ?
[12:08] <mbiebl> Reiser3 can take 3-4 secs just for mounting.
[12:08] <Amaranth> ext3
[12:08] <Amaranth> i'm plain and boring :)
[12:08] <mbiebl> (depending on the size of the partition)
[12:09] <Amaranth> but i've got a core duo and the fastest laptop HD in existence so... :)
[12:09] <wasabi_> I had no idea people still worked on e17
[12:10] <ion_> My boot time probably decreased by a half when i switched from a 5400 RPM HDD with less than  MiB of cache to a 7200 RPM one with a 8 MiB cache. :-)
[12:10] <mbiebl> wasabi_: they have a pretty complete Debian repo at deb http://edevelop.org/debian/ unstable main
[12:10] <wasabi_> That stuff usable
[12:10] <wasabi_> ?
[12:11] <Amaranth> ion_: yeah, i've got one of those two
[12:11] <wasabi_> Or is it still just tech demos?
[12:11] <Amaranth> is yours hitachi?
[12:11] <ion_> Samsung
[12:11] <Amaranth> wasabi_: I imagine the login manager, window manager, etc is usable but the rest is still at tech demo level
[12:11] <ion_> The older one was an IBM Deahtstar.
[12:12] <mbiebl> wasabi_: It's definitely usable, but e17 won't become my main desktop though.
[12:12] <Amaranth> ion_: ah
[12:12] <ion_> Death even.
[12:12] <Amaranth> ion_: sata?
[12:12] <ion_> Plain PATA.
[12:12] <Amaranth> oh
[12:12] <Amaranth> suppose it doesn't make too much of a difference with these laptop drives
[12:13] <Amaranth> mbiebl: wow, you disabled most everything to get that time :)
[12:14] <mbiebl> Amaranth: Really? 
[12:14] <Amaranth> well i've got junk for bluetooth and such here
[12:15] <Amaranth> looks like all you did was essential "this has to run for my system to boot" stuff plus dbus and X
[12:15] <mbiebl> Well, not quite: I run syslog-ng, acpid, anacron, cron, dbus, hal, NEtworkManager, dhcdbd, console-kit
[12:16] <mbiebl> Pretty complete I'd say.
[12:16] <Amaranth> oh, you made upstart scripts for hal, networkmanager, and dhcdbd?
[12:16] <Amaranth> because otherwise dbus will start those with it's own init system
[12:17] <mbiebl> That's actually not true anymore in Debian.
[12:18] <Amaranth> oh?
[12:18] <mbiebl> I made all the Dbus init scripts regular sysv init scripts the last week.
[12:18] <Amaranth> cool
[12:18] <mbiebl> /etc/dbus-1/event.d/ will soon be gone.
[12:18] <Amaranth> if i can get it below 20 seconds it's faster than hibernating :)
[12:19] <wasabi_> Are we suspecting that upstart will in fact replace dbus' init system?
[12:19] <mbiebl> wasabi_: sure
[12:19] <wasabi_> including activation, or has nobody brought it up?
[12:20] <mbiebl> Ah, Service activation is a different topic.
[12:20] <Amaranth> activation is not something upstart should manage
[12:20] <wasabi_> Why?
[12:20] <Amaranth> i know i don't really want upstart managing my rhythmbox ;)
[12:20] <Amaranth> although i suppose it doesn't matter
[12:20] <mbiebl> But dhcdbd, network-manager, hal, avahi etc are all native jobs which run as soon dbus is started.
[12:20] <wasabi_> Hmm.
[12:21] <wasabi_> I'm not sure how I feel about that either. I think I don't like the idea of DBUs launching UI apps etiher.
[12:21] <wasabi_> Heh.
[12:21] <Amaranth> upstart seems a bit heavyweight for something as simple as 'dbus path doesn't exist, $app provides it, launch $app'
[12:22] <wasabi_> I think a few people have brought up the idea of using upstart for desktop sessions.
[12:22] <wasabi_> I'd like to think about it someday. :0
[12:22] <wasabi_> Basically a non-PID 1 upstart copy.