[01:32] <spasticteapot> I'm curious - why Gnome, and not, say, XFCE?
[01:33] <spasticteapot> XFCE is ALMOST as feature-rich as KDE or Gnome, and runs on next to nothing.
[01:33] <stdin> spasticteapot: huh?
[01:33] <stdin> XUbuntu runs xfce
[01:34] <spasticteapot> Yes, but why not make Ubuntu XFCE based?
[01:34] <spasticteapot> Or why not KDE, for that matter?
[01:34] <stdin> because gnome is the "simple" user friendly interface (apparently)
[01:35] <spasticteapot> Eh. XFCE is, IMO, even simpler.
[01:35] <spasticteapot> More importantly, it actually runs on cheap computers.
[01:35] <spasticteapot> I have a 1ghz Pentium M, and it rarely throttles above 600mhz.
[01:36] <stdin> xfce isn't as User Friendly and intuitive as Gnome (or KDE), from the new users POV
[01:37] <spasticteapot> Wha?
[01:37] <spasticteapot> Everyone I know who has tried XFCE says otherwise.
[01:39] <stdin> spasticteapot: from the X-Windows users POV gnome/kde is more familiar
[01:39] <spasticteapot> Windows users and Mac users will find XFCE much easier.
[01:40] <spasticteapot> Any anyone who knows old-school X-windows will be able to figure it out in no time.
[01:40] <spasticteapot> The big issue, though, is hardware footprint.
[01:40] <spasticteapot> Xubuntu, configured with a few tweaks, will run on a 400mhz Celeron with 192mb of RAM.
[01:42] <stdin> most windows users are (generalisation here) dumb, XP/vista users, and xfce is just too different to them
[01:43] <spasticteapot> XFCE has a "start menu" and program bar.
[01:44] <spasticteapot> It's almost exactly the same.
[02:10] <catid> has anyone gotten reiserfs4 encryption working?
[02:44] <catid> has anyone done filesystem encryption before?
[03:09] <binskipy2u> hey guys , anyone here use any OTHER distro and find that just installing beryl in ubuntu , beryl just works "well"
[03:09] <binskipy2u> and stable?
[03:09] <binskipy2u> <uses pclinuxos.. but ive heard beryl in ubuntu is more "stable"?
[03:10] <catid> hrm..  i've found that the latest Beryl with latest Ubuntu and latest kernel sometimes fails to start and must be manually reloaded on login
[03:10] <catid> it otherwise works well
[03:11] <catid> if you want to choose a O(1) scheduler to work with it, i've found CFSv7 is better than RSDL for interactivity right now with Beryl
[03:18] <nzk> Why is Ubuntu so ungodly slow for me?
[03:19] <nzk> Its fine and I open amarok, and my load average multiplies
[03:20] <Electricity> "Gusty Gibbon" ?!
[03:21] <spasticteapot> I don't know.
[03:21] <spasticteapot> nzk: Amarok loads up all sorts of KDE stuff.
[03:21] <spasticteapot> If you're not using KDE, it can be a bit of a resource hog.
[03:22] <spasticteapot> Also, you're probbably wanting to be in #ubuntu.
[03:23] <nzk> I'm banned.
[03:23] <nzk> Can I make it faster somehow?
[03:24] <spasticteapot> ....
[03:24] <spasticteapot> Banned?
[03:25] <nzk> Is there a way to make the system monitor in the menu bar show like 467/512 instead of the stupid graph?
[03:25] <macd> is there any way to use network manager to connect to a wireless network and not drop its wired link while doing so?
[03:27] <RAOF> macd: Not at the moment, no.
[03:27] <nzk> spasticteapot, Its a very long story.
[03:27] <RAOF> macd: But I believe that's a 0.7 feature target, so it'll probably be possible in GG
[03:28] <macd> yeah its needed, nice to be hard wires while fiddling with wifi connection
[03:28] <macd> I might see if there is any spec on LP for it
[03:29] <RAOF> macd: http://live.gnome.org/NetworkManagerToDo
[03:29] <macd> excellent so thats an upstream todo
[03:30] <RAOF> Yes, totally.
[03:30] <RAOF> Also, it seems that most of the things on that todo list are actually done :)
[03:31] <nzk> Is there any way to bring down my RAM usage?
[03:33] <spasticteapot> nzk: Use exaile?
[03:34] <nzk> Huh?
[03:34] <spasticteapot> !exaile
[03:34] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about exaile - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[03:34] <spasticteapot> Fnord.
[03:34] <spasticteapot> It's a program like Amarok, but much lighter.
[03:34] <spasticteapot> Like XFCE vs. Gnome.
[03:34] <spasticteapot> It's also based on GTK+, so it'll run poifect on XFCE or Gnome.
[03:50] <nzk> Argh
[03:50] <nzk> I don't wanna have to switch to xfce
[03:51] <nzk> I have 512mb of ram, a 3.46ghz proc, and a ati 9800 radeon
[03:51] <nzk> Why is Ubuntu still slow...
[03:51] <nzk> I even closed beryl
[04:57] <catid> nzk: 512mb ram is a bit low for a lot of things you might be doing
[04:57] <nzk> Running xchat, gaim, and firefox?
[04:57] <RAOF> Firefox is not generally considered "light"
[04:58] <catid> yeah FF is kind of beeft
[04:58] <catid> nzk: do you have your system monitor applet running to see your memory usage?
[04:58] <nzk> Yeah
[04:59] <catid> is it all used?  like right now i'm almost using 512MB but then again doing more than you..
[05:00] <catid> RAOF: 2.6.21 with the CFS patch from IngoM is smoooooth <3
[05:03] <RAOF> catid: Heh.  My Gutsy VM will be set up tonight :)
[05:05] <catid> RAOF: is that what they're using too?
[05:05] <binskipy2u> hey guys, after installing fiesty, and if you choose beryl in synaptic, and it picks everything it needs
[05:05] <binskipy2u> and you install it, how well does it work?
[05:06] <catid> binskipy2u: great
[05:06] <binskipy2u> i know ubuntu is installed with "desktop effects"
[05:06] <binskipy2u> but thats NOT beryl?
[05:06] <RAOF> Works much better in #ubuntu-effects :)
[05:06] <binskipy2u> youll have to install beryl yourself
[05:06] <catid> binskipy2u: those effects are Compiz
[05:06] <RAOF> Indeed, not  beryl.
[05:06] <binskipy2u> so i just install beryl via synaptic and then start it up
[05:06] <catid> yes
[05:06] <binskipy2u> and thats it?
[05:06] <catid> you may also need to install "emerald" to theme it
[05:06] <Toma-> Galeon is a better alternative to Firefox on small RAM systems
[05:06] <binskipy2u> does beryl work with ati 9250 128mb 8xagp
[05:07] <RAOF> If "Desktop Effects" works, then Beryl will too.
[05:07] <RAOF> Becasue Beryl & Compiz are almost exactly the same thing.
[05:07] <catid> binskipy2u: i believe so
[05:07] <binskipy2u> one more question.. will it just work
[05:07] <binskipy2u> or must i go nuts installing any ati related drivers
[05:07] <catid> binskipy2u: it should just work yes, but you will be able to configure anything you don't like
[05:07] <binskipy2u> or does it use proprietary drivers
[05:08] <catid> binskipy2u: nah if you have opengl acceleration already it should work right away
[05:08] <RAOF> Proprietary drivers will make your life a whole lot harder.
[05:08] <binskipy2u> ok..thanks catid
[05:08] <binskipy2u> im using my fav distro now, but ubuntu when i used it, felt "right"
[05:08] <binskipy2u> if that makes any senes
[05:09] <binskipy2u> sense
[05:09] <catid> yes :)
[05:09] <catid> i know many people at school who run ubuntu
[05:09] <binskipy2u> plus you can not go wrong with such a huge community
[05:10] <catid> ubuntu has very good wiki documentation and you'll find the IRC channels to be pretty helpful
[05:11] <catid> if you like to tweak things you'll find it's not hard to change the way ubuntu works without tripping over packages
[05:11] <binskipy2u> i use pclinuxos now
[05:11] <binskipy2u> a very nice distro
[05:11] <binskipy2u> but ubuntu is just as nice but also more up2date
[05:11] <catid> what do you like about it?
[05:11] <binskipy2u> everythign just works
[05:12] <binskipy2u> i'm not into linux elitism
[05:12] <binskipy2u> i just want stuff to work
[05:12] <binskipy2u> lol
[05:13] <catid> feel free to feel superior to people who are destined to be owned by Microsoft when they're forced to upgrade to Vista in 5 years
[05:13] <binskipy2u> 5?
[05:13] <binskipy2u> you mean 2
[05:13] <catid> at least as far as digital rights go
[05:13] <catid> why 2?
[05:14] <binskipy2u> 2008
[05:14] <binskipy2u> late 2008
[05:14] <catid> is that when xp stops being supported?
[05:14] <binskipy2u> hold on let me get the correct info..
[05:15] <binskipy2u> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
[05:15] <binskipy2u> jan 31 2009
[05:15] <catid> from personal experience i was able to run windows 2k about 5 years after xp before things stopped working
[05:15] <binskipy2u> all xp support ends
[05:16] <binskipy2u> from microsoft
[05:16] <catid> wow
[05:16] <binskipy2u> i'm sure itll "work" after that
[05:16] <binskipy2u> but no more updates
[05:16] <binskipy2u> security or otherwise
[05:16] <binskipy2u> by that time, perhaps, high end pcs of today that do run vista
[05:16] <binskipy2u> will be affordable for those with less then 2ghz dinosours
[05:16] <catid> so older pcs will have to run what?  linux and bsd?
[05:16] <binskipy2u> dinasours
[05:17] <binskipy2u> for the average person..who surfs net, edits a pic or 2, does a word document or any basic office stuff
[05:17] <binskipy2u> and burns a cd/dvd data
[05:17] <binskipy2u> or watches a dvd
[05:17] <binskipy2u> linux on a 1ghz computer
[05:17] <binskipy2u> is all they need
[05:17] <catid> yeah
[05:18] <binskipy2u> i have a 667 p3 sitting in my closet
[05:18] <catid> the industry is being justified by video games these days i think
[05:18] <binskipy2u> i'm sure i could ressurect that
[05:18] <catid> i mean, for faster and faster instead of smaller and cheaper
[05:18] <binskipy2u> if the top 10 video games were ported to linux and if there was good financial /tax software for linux
[05:18] <binskipy2u> windows would be obsolete
[05:18] <catid> yeah i ran into the tax problem this season too
[05:19] <binskipy2u> tax software "GOOD dvd authoring software"
[05:19] <binskipy2u> and gaming
[05:19] <binskipy2u> is what linux needs
[05:19] <catid> WINE support is not good for available apps either
[05:19] <binskipy2u> its "ok" barely
[05:19] <Toma-> Gnucash is pretty l33t
[05:19] <binskipy2u> depending on the app
[05:19] <binskipy2u> photoshop 7 runs nicely on wine
[05:19] <catid> Toma-: does it know about latest tax laws and things updated each year?
[05:20] <binskipy2u> instead of there being 500 distros
[05:20] <binskipy2u> there needs to be 50 SUPER windows killing programs
[05:20] <binskipy2u> instead
[05:20] <Toma-> catid: not too sure. latest release was on the 28th of april so its pretty up to date
[05:20] <catid> Toma-: i'll check that out when the last of my w-2's arrives
[05:21] <Toma-> catid: cool :) ontop of that, its FOSS, so you can always request a certain thing get included in the next release
[05:21] <catid> yeah i absolutely love software i don't need to pay for
[05:21] <catid> even better when it's not illegal..
[05:23] <catid> binskipy2u: for engineering students, linux is almost essential
[05:23] <binskipy2u> i have NO linux using friends
[05:23] <binskipy2u> NONE
[05:23] <binskipy2u> ive tried and tried
[05:23] <binskipy2u> even explained the benefits and what i feeel is the future of linux
[05:23] <binskipy2u> no go
[05:23] <Toma-> binskipy2u: give them time
[05:23] <binskipy2u> the ONLY mistake people make in switching is thinking Linux should work JUST like windows
[05:23] <catid> binskipy2u: to write software for wireless sensor networks we need to compile tinyos in a unix environment, for network simulation, ns-2 (with TCP-Linux extensions to make improvements to congestion avoidance algorithms)
[05:24] <Toma-> theyll see it more in the news and in time, theyll ask you for assistance
[05:24] <binskipy2u> well i dont mind giving SOME free assistance
[05:24] <catid> linux should work better than windows.. presently it doesn't in a lot of ways, though it can always be made to work better with effort
[05:24] <binskipy2u> but there's a point when people just want you to do all the work'
[05:25] <catid> binskipy2u: MATLAB and SPICE and all those other tools are native in Linux
[05:25] <catid> definitely a better toolset for engineers than windows
[05:29] <catid> i've been delighted to see that WINE support for direct3d has improved so much that i can run most of the demos from scene.org
[05:30] <catid> missed being able to watch those
[06:24] <dougie> wow already starting on another version
[06:25] <RAOF> You mean #ubuntu+1?  Yeah, starts up pretty much as soon as the previous version is released :)
[07:43] <binskipy2u> hey guys does beryl work "better" when using GNOME then KDE? or does that even matter?
[07:43] <Toma-> doesnt matter
[07:44] <Toma-> but use the KDE window decorator rather then the emerald one
[07:44] <binskipy2u> ok was just wondering
[07:44] <binskipy2u> if there's any performance stability difference between kde and gnome whenit comes to beryl
[07:45] <Toma-> beryl is beryl :D its going to be buggy anywhere
[08:11] <binskipy2u> hey guys, i am reading this on a "beryl and ati radeon" how-to.. anyone agree that this is a true statement>
[08:11] <binskipy2u> We will use the open-source ATI driver that comes with Ubuntu plus AIGLX to achieve this; the other way to do this would be to use the closed-source ATI driver together with XGL which seems to be a bit unstable.
[08:11] <binskipy2u> ?
[08:15] <crdlb> binskipy2u: this is the wrong channel for that
[08:15] <crdlb> but it depends on the card
[08:15] <binskipy2u> ati9250
[08:16] <binskipy2u> what is the "right channel"?
[08:16] <crdlb> #ubuntu-effects
[08:16] <crdlb> or #ubuntu
[08:16] <crdlb> unless you're running gutsy
[08:16] <crdlb> although #ubuntu-effects would still be fine in that case :)
[08:17] <crdlb> binskipy2u: I'd be glad to answer your question in #ubuntu-effects
[08:22] <arejay> for the love of god i think beagle is going to kill my laptop
[08:22] <arejay> :/
[08:24] <crdlb> arejay: tracker
[08:24] <crdlb> beagle sucks
[08:25] <arejay> crdlb: was starting to think that :)
[08:25] <crdlb> tracker will index all your files and it integrates with deskbar
[08:25] <crdlb> just like beagle
[08:25] <crdlb> it doesn't integrate with evolution, etc though yet
[08:26] <crdlb> but it's lightning-fast
[08:26] <arejay> does it intergrate with firefox?
[08:26] <crdlb> in what way?
[08:26] <crdlb> firefox bookmarks?
[08:26] <arejay> history/bookmarks
[08:26] <crdlb> isn't that deskbar's job?
[08:26] <crdlb> I don't think even beagle handles that directly
[08:27] <arejay> It seems to. I maybewrong
[08:40] <RAOF> crdlb: Beagle does, in that there's a Beagle Firefox extension.
[08:44] <crdlb> ugh
[08:44] <crdlb> well tracker doesn't
[08:45] <crdlb> yeah affinity is nice
[08:45] <crdlb> I know deskbar still integrates directly with epiphany
[08:45] <crdlb> using tracker
[08:46] <crdlb> which is all that matters to me
[08:52] <RAOF> crdlb: Using Tracker?  Really?
[08:53] <crdlb> I certainly get the ability to use ephy smart bookmarks for searching
[08:54] <crdlb> yep bookmarks too
[08:54] <RAOF> As do I
[08:55] <crdlb> at least that way you don't need both a mono and a python app running :)
[08:57] <RAOF> F-Spot, tomboy, banshee, beagle...?
[08:57] <crdlb> don't use them
[08:57] <crdlb> f-spot a little
[08:58] <crdlb> but that doesn't stay open and I haven't used it in a long time
[08:59] <crdlb> now that I have X using ram to augment my 32MB of vram, I can't afford mono on 512MB
[11:16] <ajmorris_> anybody run some gutsy gibbon updates yet?
[11:18] <gortiz> yep
[11:18] <ajmorris_> what u updated, i havn't found that many?
[11:18] <ajmorris_> like my login terminal says gutsy gibbon (development branch)
[11:19] <ajmorris_> and i have update the time zone app
[11:19] <gortiz> ajmorris_, there aren't yet a lot of updates..
[11:19] <ajmorris_> but apart from that don't know how many other apps are avaliable
[11:19] <ajmorris_> yeah i know
[11:19] <gortiz> yes and there are some update for evolution
[11:20] <ajmorris_> improved the microsoft exchange ability yet?
[11:20] <ajmorris_> in terms of not having to enter an OWA url for those exchange servers that don't use one
[11:22] <gortiz> mhmm.. there are some updates to gnomevfs2.. but i don't remeber them all.. take a look at the changelog
[01:55] <zancik> Who knows about limits on German autobahns?
[02:03] <Hobbsee> zancik: i think you were looking for #ubuntu-offtopic
[02:04] <zancik> ths
[03:31] <mikkael> when will the first alpha be released ?
[03:31] <stdin> mikkael: look at the topic
[03:31] <mikkael> oh theres a link
[03:32] <mikkael> thanks
[04:55] <ccnp> my sound card  is not work in ubuntu 7.4  it is  Adi 1981B SoundMAX  i need help
[04:55] <jussi01> ccnp: #ubuntu
[04:56] <ccnp> ok
[04:57] <crimsun> I have to run to class, but make sure the jack sense mixer elements are muted
[07:49] <omha> hey
[07:49] <omha> where does kernel 2.6.22 come from?
[07:50] <fowlduck-> see, first a mommy kernel and a daddy kernel get together....
[07:51] <linxeh> omha: the kernel fairy
[07:51] <linxeh> \o_
[07:52] <omha> oh, somebody is missing is teeth
[07:52] <omha> his*
[07:53] <omha> hmm didn't we get and email that it just was a clean/merged 2.6.21?
[07:58] <omha> "linux-source-2.6.22, which is 2.6.21 at the moment," i knew  2.6.22 sounded a little wired
[11:10] <catid> hello.. i have a major problem with the fan support in linux on my smp laptop with nvidia card.  the fastest fan mode is never used, so my graphics card overheats and passively throttles itself down to avoid death
[11:10] <catid> i have not found a way to set the fan speed myself.  i've read through acpi docs and played with lm-sensors
[11:11] <catid> there does not seem to be a /proc or /sys interface to the fan speed
[11:11] <catid> using apm instead of acpi doesn't help