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txwikinger2@schedule london11:26
ubotuSchedule for Europe/London: 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 19:00: Mozilla Team | 02 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 02 May 21:00: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 21:00: Technical Board11:26
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AlexLatchford@schedule London04:13
ubotuSchedule for Europe/London: 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 19:00: Mozilla Team | 02 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 02 May 21:00: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 21:00: Technical Board04:13
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 02 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 02 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 02 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 02 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 02 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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Admiral_Chicagoi'm here08:13
robitailleand it sounds like you are the only one... :)08:16
asacoh sorry08:16
asaci am here now as well08:16
asachad a phone call and time was running08:16
hjmfI'm here but busy at this moment :(08:17
asacgnomefreak: AlexLatchford hjmf here?08:17
gnomefreakok sorry im late08:17
AlexLatchfordHmm, not many items on the agenda..08:18
AlexLatchfordplease feel free to add some asap08:18
asacwell we have an agenda08:18
gnomefreakdoes someone want to chair so i can upload tbird?08:18
AlexLatchfordFreddy's turn?08:19
AlexLatchfordor do you want me to do it?08:19
Admiral_Chicagoit is my turn08:19
Admiral_Chicagoi'll do it08:19
gnomefreakeither or. if i do it we will be moving slow08:19
AlexLatchford:) sure08:19
asacgo ahead Admiral_Chicago08:19
hjmfnow I'm really here too :)08:20
AlexLatchfordAdmiral_Chicago: we starting?08:23
gnomefreakAlexLatchford: start with GUI consistency?08:25
AlexLatchfordYeah guess so08:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 42263 in firefox "Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 08:25
hjmfAdmiral_Chicago has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))08:25
AlexLatchfordDunno if this is a real decision to make or not, but this was brought up that the GUI across the entire desktop is Icon + Wording..08:26
AlexLatchfordFirefox is one of very few applications that does not follow this pattern..08:26
gnomefreakim personally happy with the way it is. i do believe you can set it to use both08:26
AlexLatchfordYes, this is more the decision to turn it on by default to icons + text08:26
gnomefreakadding text will make window show less (maybe only a little bit) but still shortens the page08:27
AlexLatchford(You can set this by right clicking on the toolbar and hitting customise.. )08:27
hjmfIMHO icons are quite clear and I agree with gnomefreak08:27
AlexLatchfordasac: opinion?08:27
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Admiral_Chicagosorry I got disconnected08:28
gnomefreakasac: what do you think?08:28
gnomefreakyou hover over icons gives you text08:28
gnomefreakwe saw08:28
AlexLatchfordI agree that the icons are very clear, but for consistencies sake, would it be better to use text also, I mean users can remove it if they wish08:28
gnomefreakAdmiral_Chicago: we started with GUi08:28
AlexLatchfordAdmiral_Chicago: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/4226308:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 42263 in firefox "Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 08:28
=== gnomefreak looking for less clutter i guess in tool bars
gnomefreaklets get everyone else to pull text out of apps J/K08:30
Admiral_Chicagohow is it built in XP?08:30
Admiral_Chicagoor Mac08:30
AlexLatchfordI believe without is default for firefox across the versions08:31
AlexLatchfordbut the rest of Ubuntu uses Icons + Text08:31
Admiral_Chicagoiirc, that is the case as well08:31
hjmfmaybe because ff ends up with 4 horizontal bars08:31
hjmfmenu, icons, markers, tags ...08:32
AlexLatchfordhjmf: hmm, yes when you say that I see it08:32
gnomefreakim not seeing a good reason to change it yet. the reason being given is because everyone else does it08:32
AlexLatchfordwell yes, thats the issue, I personally would change it back if text was there..08:32
gnomefreakim not saying its a bad idea at all08:33
hjmfyes, no big deal I would change it back too08:33
Admiral_Chicagoi think with the menu bar, the nav bar and the bookmarks folders, another row of text is intentionally left out08:33
gnomefreakwhat other browsers in ubuntu have text and icons?08:33
AlexLatchfordgnomefreak: not sure..08:33
gnomefreakepiphany does and iceape does atm08:34
gnomefreaki dont have others to test right now08:34
AlexLatchfordme neither08:34
hjmfopera seg fault for me right now :008:35
AlexLatchfordhmm.. well Thunderbird has Icons + Text08:35
Admiral_ChicagoKonqui does not iirc08:35
Admiral_Chicagolet me check08:35
AlexLatchfordis asac about?08:35
Admiral_Chicagonot yet08:35
Admiral_Chicagoi think KDE4 will implement that08:35
AlexLatchfordKDE4 will have icons + text?08:35
gnomefreaki dont have opera installed since my hd crashed08:36
gnomefreakAlexLatchford: i think so yes08:36
AlexLatchfordhmm.. okay08:36
AlexLatchfordGo for a vote on this?08:36
hjmfI had a version of mozilla and it doesnt08:36
AlexLatchford(for desktop consistency reasons)08:37
gnomefreakhow many people on that bug replied they want it?08:37
AlexLatchfordgood point..08:37
ograhow is hardcoding such a thing consistent ? make it read the default desktop settings and use what they define08:37
gnomefreakif its only 1 or 2 than no sense in it08:37
Admiral_Chicagowhat would +1/-1 mean?08:37
hjmfthink on small screens 15' or lower08:37
AlexLatchford+1 for adding text.. -1 for leaving it off08:38
AlexLatchfordgnomefreak: you have a very good point there08:38
hjmfits an *aditional* bar08:38
gnomefreakwe are here to please the masses not 3 people IMO08:38
AlexLatchfordOkay, I will close the report now then08:39
AlexLatchfordwith the decision..08:39
gnomefreakwait for asac on that08:39
gnomefreakhe may have a point we are not seeing08:39
hjmfyes, lets wait till the meeting finishes08:39
hjmfif he is around which i believe08:40
Admiral_Chicagoi suggest we move on and we can poll alex when he returns08:40
AlexLatchfordokay.. I will draft the issue reply :P08:40
gnomefreakbtw repo is down atm08:40
Admiral_Chicagogive me a sec08:40
gnomefreakmv Packages.gz dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/08:40
gnomefreakoh shoot08:40
gnomefreakignore that08:41
Admiral_Chicagonext agenda item: Mozilla Testing Team by Alex.08:41
Admiral_Chicagognomefreak: talking to your terminal again?08:41
gnomefreakyep :)08:41
AlexLatchfordWell this was something we brought up last meeting..08:41
Admiral_Chicagoi do that too after a while, try to run commands in irssi08:41
AlexLatchfordGetting a team of people who are contactable for testing specific issues08:41
AlexLatchfordmaybe via a mailing list or something08:42
gnomefreakAlexLatchford: im gonna ok this one. we have a few (10+) testing preview archive atm08:42
Admiral_Chicagooh crap, let me add something to the agenda. link in a sec08:42
AlexLatchfordThink we should try to set up a mailing list, LP team to get it going a bit more formally08:42
gnomefreakthe problem being and this i knew before hand. we are not getting the testing on what NEEDS to be tested08:42
Admiral_Chicagoi disagree with the ML and LP team however08:43
AlexLatchfordIs the changelog listing ideas we discussed last meeting going anywhere?08:43
Admiral_Chicagoi'm not sure there is enough people to be pushing for those things08:43
gnomefreaktbird2 and iceape are the packages i wanted tested more than anything because they are going into gutsy. ffox3 will not be in gutsy08:43
AlexLatchfordthe team will be formally tasked then to test packages that need testing.. say setting a 2 weekly testing agenda or something08:44
AlexLatchfordso you can test specific issues intensely08:44
Admiral_ChicagoAlexLatchford: that i like more than just setting the team, I wouldn't care if you used the MT ML for that08:45
gnomefreakcan we please defer this one more meeting?08:45
hjmfmaybe a team and people from it reporting bugs in LP (for karma points) can be motivational for them08:45
AlexLatchfordhjmf: yes, it can be an introduction into the team08:45
asacdamn :)08:45
RiddellAlexLatchford: yes, kde 4 apps have icons+text08:45
AlexLatchfordcurrently there are not many *easy* tasks for new people..08:45
asacthat happens if you stare in wrong channel08:45
Admiral_Chicagocrap, I realized I have to run to class in 5, maybe 10 minutes.08:45
AlexLatchfordRiddell: ta :)08:46
gnomefreakasac: lol08:46
gnomefreakasac: +1 or -1 for icons and text?08:46
asacouch let me read it08:46
Admiral_Chicagookay, AlexLatchford i'll have to cut in front of you, I hope that's okay08:46
AlexLatchfordgnomefreak: you wish to defer the testing decision until the next meeting?08:46
AlexLatchfordAdmiral_Chicago: sure thing bud :)08:46
gnomefreakAlexLatchford: i would like to get with asac on this and come up with a way to do this nicely08:47
asacwhat is current consent on the text icon stuff?08:47
Admiral_ChicagoOkay, on to the last agenda item (sorry for the jumping) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings08:47
gnomefreak-1 for more clutter08:47
Admiral_Chicagoasac: -1 from me. (against text and icons)08:47
AlexLatchford0 from me now, seeing the light of 15" monitior discussion08:48
AlexLatchfordleaning towards -108:48
asacso epiphany has text + icons by default? mine hasn't :)08:48
gnomefreakyes mine dies08:48
gnomefreakand i didnt change it08:48
asaci am -1 ... firefox should be the way its known to users of other OSes08:48
=== gnomefreak hates text but i havent used it alot
AlexLatchfordokay settled08:49
ograasac, epi uses gnomes default settings ...08:49
Admiral_Chicagookay we will come back to the discussion on testing team08:49
gnomefreakyay it works :)08:49
asacogra: yes ... i was just not sure, because i changed it long ago i guess08:49
Admiral_ChicagoI have to push this last agenda item before class, we started a bit later than I hoped08:49
hjmf-1 as stated above (hope not too late) :)08:49
asacAdmiral_Chicago: ok whats the state?08:50
Admiral_ChicagoWe had decided earlier to create a Mozilla Council with david, alex, alex, john, hjmf and myself08:50
gnomefreaki would like to get all mozilla apps in testing repo before we have  ateam08:50
Admiral_Chicagoasac: we are hoping, sorry08:50
Admiral_Chicagohopping around*08:50
asacYes, clue files, right?08:50
Admiral_Chicagoso, we also decided to defer it from being active until after Feisty was out08:51
Admiral_Chicagosorry, everyone look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings08:52
Admiral_Chicagoasac: no, mozill council08:52
asacah ok08:52
asacwhat do you suggest?08:52
Admiral_Chicagonow that feisty is out, we should vote to activate the council officially08:52
hjmfah ok I was lost ;)08:52
=== gnomefreak thought it was already.
Admiral_Chicagoso we would have a council which works actively in Mozilla and helps bring in new people08:53
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gnomefreakbad part everyone here is on the council so is a vote needed?08:53
hjmfall the MT is the council right now08:53
Admiral_Chicagognomefreak: no, we said it wouldn't take effect until after feisty08:53
Admiral_Chicagohjmf: there are a few people on the LP page (iirc) that are not08:53
hjmfok lets formally activated it08:53
asacdone i think08:54
Admiral_Chicagoyep, votes to active it?08:54
gnomefreakthats what im thinking (how do we do that)08:54
AlexLatchfordwhat does activation entail?08:54
gnomefreakshould we maybe bring it to CC?08:54
Admiral_Chicagognomefreak: david said there was no need08:54
AlexLatchfordyeah he did08:54
Admiral_Chicagowe would just fall under the CC08:54
gnomefreakok  than its activated. what next :)08:55
AlexLatchfordbelieve he asked Jono08:55
=== gnomefreak needs to get up with jono and/or elkbuntu one of these days
Admiral_Chicagoprogress of clue files...08:55
AlexLatchford(Testing Team is deferred until next meeting yes?)08:55
Admiral_ChicagoAlex has worked on a lot on bughelper and we have a lot of progress08:55
gnomefreakAlexLatchford: yeah because im not sure how much ill be here in the next 2 weeks08:56
gnomefreakand ill forget with gutsy packages.08:56
Admiral_Chicagonow that LP is out of beta, we can open up the mentoring to everyone08:56
asaci think we are in a good state from bughelper, though we still don't have split output of bughelper results .. .e.g. one page by task08:56
Admiral_ChicagoSo I think Alex, I can get to pumping out some good clue files08:57
gnomefreakif asac stays up long enough i will talk to him in #u-mt about a few things withit08:57
hjmfasac: right, actual page is a mess08:57
asacanyway ... we could start to populate clue files with prominent stack signatures08:57
Admiral_ChicagoI have to run to class. someone please take over as chair08:57
asacso it starts to find dups for us08:57
Admiral_Chicagogood luck guys08:57
asacmaybe we can even write something to automatically generate stack signature clue snippets08:58
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asacfrom MASTER bugs08:58
asachjmf: since you work most on stack sigs, you think you can add new MASTER bug signatures to bughelper clues?08:59
AlexLatchfordsounds like a good idea..08:59
hjmfyes I can, but first I still have to master bughelper docs :-P08:59
AlexLatchfordhow is the retrace backlog situation going?08:59
asaci think hjmf fixed it :)08:59
asacwith amazing work08:59
AlexLatchfordGood job bud :)09:00
hjmfthank you guys09:00
asacKarma: 679709:01
hjmfthe problem with bughelper finding dups is that first the bugs have to be retraced09:01
asacyes right09:01
hjmfand right now each retrace I do automatically searches for stack signatures so dups are easily founded w/o bughelper09:01
asachow do you search for duplicate stack signatures?09:02
asacjust search field?09:02
hjmfas long as they are in summary09:02
hjmf[@xxxxx] 09:02
asacyes ... soon apport will automatically add need-XXX-retrace tag on submission09:02
asacthen we will have retraced results ... but in attachments09:03
asacthats when bughelper stuff might come handy09:03
hjmf firefox -remote "openurl(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/${PACKAGE}/+bugs?field.searchtext=${STACK_SIGNATURE}&orderby=-datecreated,new-window)"09:03
hjmfasac: right09:03
asacwhat is stack signature for you? ... each single line?09:03
asace.g. do you extract it automatically?09:04
hjmf        eval "$(strip_stack $BUG_RETRACE | sed -n '/#4 / {s/#4 \+\(.[^ ] *\) .*/STACK_SIGNATURE="\1"/p;}; /#5 / {s/#5 \+\(.[^ ] *\) .*/STACK_SIGNATURE_1="\1"/p;q}')"09:04
hjmfits usually the #4 stack09:04
hjmfafter the #3 <....>09:04
hjmf#3 <signal handler called>09:04
asachow many don't fit into that pattern?09:04
hjmfnot too many09:04
hjmfand I look at them always09:05
hjmfas it is interactive09:05
hjmfit is working with most of the reports and matches upstream searches too09:06
hjmfthose ones are done by hand though09:06
asachow do you do upstream searches?09:07
asac... or what do you mean by "matches upstream searches too" ?09:07
hjmfbut by hand09:07
hjmf.. thunder bird09:08
hjmfah, sorry, I was talking about the stacktraces from upstream reports09:08
asacoh ok.09:08
asacso what do you do with them atm?09:08
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asaci mean how do you integrate upstream talkbacks in your current helper tool?09:10
hjmfAs I stated that work is manual, it is not integrated, though I had a couple of scripts to 'beautify' our stacks to compare better09:11
hjmfwith upstream ones09:11
asacah ok09:11
hjmfsed stuff to  leave function calls09:11
asacso you have some kind of stack "normalization" code?09:11
gnomefreakis the meeting over?09:12
asacwe are still talking :)09:12
hjmfI think we are boring you :)09:12
gnomefreakah ok09:12
asacstill no idea what to do with clue files i guess09:12
gnomefreakno i have other things im tending to09:12
asacactually on the long run it would make sense to have clues for stack duplicates09:12
asacquestion is whether we can generate them automatically09:12
asace.g. from MASTER bug title09:13
hjmfasac: I agree. But currently is no need09:13
hjmfbut I can work on them09:13
asachjmf: how about generating them from search results and bug title09:13
asacshould be pretty simple, right?09:14
asacgood ... ok ... so no need to hurry in order to match crash duplicates09:14
hjmfthough my idea in short term is working in pythonize my scripts to integrate them with the classes in bughelper, apport, and so on09:15
asachjmf: that would be magnificent09:15
asacwe have launchpad integration for instance09:15
hjmfyes but I wont be very confident as of my way of scripting09:15
hjmfas it works it's ok for me09:15
hjmfeven if it is a mess :)09:16
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asacif you plan to improve launchpad integration and bughelper ocode, there are probably plenty of people willing to help09:17
hjmfI'll do some draft and I'll push to bzr as a branch or something09:17
asacthats good09:17
asacok ... we have another item on agenda?09:17
asactesting team moved to next?09:18
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AlexLatchfordasac: yes09:19
asacgood ... then i think we are over09:19
asacsorry again for being so late here :/09:19
AlexLatchfordcool cool, asac can you update the agenda with the clue file decision, I was on another channel, and not nothing about clue files yet09:20
asacAlexLatchford: which page09:21
AlexLatchfordjust put in a short sentence about the decision made, keeps track of the decisions until I clear the page and make the minutes09:22
asacyep done09:23
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asachmmm wiki is slow on writing09:23
asacnow changed09:23
AlexLatchfordhmm, ta09:24
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arualavi@schedule Andorra10:28
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Andorra: Current meeting: Mozilla Team | 02 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 02 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 22:00: Technical Board | 09 May 22:00: Edubuntu10:28
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 02 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
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