[11:26] <txwikinger2> @schedule london
[11:26] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 19:00: Mozilla Team | 02 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 02 May 21:00: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 21:00: Technical Board
[01:05] <nifan> b'dia
[04:13] <AlexLatchford> @schedule London
[04:13] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 19:00: Mozilla Team | 02 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 02 May 21:00: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 21:00: Technical Board
[08:13] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm here
[08:16] <robitaille> and it sounds like you are the only one... :)
[08:16] <asac> oh sorry
[08:16] <asac> i am here now as well
[08:16] <asac> had a phone call and time was running
[08:17] <hjmf> I'm here but busy at this moment :(
[08:17] <asac> gnomefreak: AlexLatchford hjmf here?
[08:17] <AlexLatchford> Howdy
[08:17] <gnomefreak> ok sorry im late
[08:18] <AlexLatchford> Hmm, not many items on the agenda..
[08:18] <AlexLatchford> please feel free to add some asap
[08:18] <asac> well we have an agenda
[08:18] <gnomefreak> does someone want to chair so i can upload tbird?
[08:19] <AlexLatchford> Freddy's turn?
[08:19] <AlexLatchford> or do you want me to do it?
[08:19] <Admiral_Chicago> it is my turn
[08:19] <Admiral_Chicago> :)
[08:19] <Admiral_Chicago> i'll do it
[08:19] <gnomefreak> either or. if i do it we will be moving slow
[08:19] <AlexLatchford> :) sure
[08:19] <asac> go ahead Admiral_Chicago
[08:20] <hjmf> now I'm really here too :)
[08:23] <AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: we starting?
[08:24] <AlexLatchford> meh..
[08:24] <hjmf> ...
[08:25] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: start with GUI consistency?
[08:25] <AlexLatchford> Yeah guess so
[08:25] <AlexLatchford> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/42263
[08:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 42263 in firefox "Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
[08:25] <hjmf> Admiral_Chicago has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[08:26] <AlexLatchford> Dunno if this is a real decision to make or not, but this was brought up that the GUI across the entire desktop is Icon + Wording..
[08:26] <AlexLatchford> Firefox is one of very few applications that does not follow this pattern..
[08:26] <gnomefreak> im personally happy with the way it is. i do believe you can set it to use both
[08:26] <AlexLatchford> Yes, this is more the decision to turn it on by default to icons + text
[08:27] <gnomefreak> adding text will make window show less (maybe only a little bit) but still shortens the page
[08:27] <AlexLatchford> (You can set this by right clicking on the toolbar and hitting customise.. )
[08:27] <hjmf> IMHO icons are quite clear and I agree with gnomefreak
[08:27] <AlexLatchford> asac: opinion?
[08:28] <Admiral_Chicago> sorry I got disconnected
[08:28] <gnomefreak> asac: what do you think?
[08:28] <gnomefreak> you hover over icons gives you text
[08:28] <gnomefreak> we saw
[08:28] <gnomefreak> :)
[08:28] <AlexLatchford> I agree that the icons are very clear, but for consistencies sake, would it be better to use text also, I mean users can remove it if they wish
[08:28] <gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: we started with GUi
[08:28] <AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/42263
[08:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 42263 in firefox "Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
[08:30] <gnomefreak> lets get everyone else to pull text out of apps J/K
[08:30] <Admiral_Chicago> how is it built in XP?
[08:30] <Admiral_Chicago> or Mac
[08:31] <AlexLatchford> I believe without is default for firefox across the versions
[08:31] <AlexLatchford> but the rest of Ubuntu uses Icons + Text
[08:31] <Admiral_Chicago> iirc, that is the case as well
[08:31] <hjmf> maybe because ff ends up with 4 horizontal bars
[08:32] <hjmf> menu, icons, markers, tags ...
[08:32] <hjmf> *tabs
[08:32] <AlexLatchford> hjmf: hmm, yes when you say that I see it
[08:32] <gnomefreak> im not seeing a good reason to change it yet. the reason being given is because everyone else does it
[08:32] <AlexLatchford> well yes, thats the issue, I personally would change it back if text was there..
[08:33] <gnomefreak> im not saying its a bad idea at all
[08:33] <hjmf> yes, no big deal I would change it back too
[08:33] <Admiral_Chicago> i think with the menu bar, the nav bar and the bookmarks folders, another row of text is intentionally left out
[08:33] <gnomefreak> what other browsers in ubuntu have text and icons?
[08:33] <AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: not sure..
[08:34] <gnomefreak> epiphany does and iceape does atm
[08:34] <gnomefreak> i dont have others to test right now
[08:34] <AlexLatchford> me neither
[08:35] <hjmf> opera seg fault for me right now :0
[08:35] <AlexLatchford> hmm.. well Thunderbird has Icons + Text
[08:35] <Admiral_Chicago> Konqui does not iirc
[08:35] <Admiral_Chicago> let me check
[08:35] <AlexLatchford> is asac about?
[08:35] <Admiral_Chicago> not yet
[08:35] <Admiral_Chicago> i think KDE4 will implement that
[08:35] <AlexLatchford> KDE4 will have icons + text?
[08:36] <gnomefreak> i dont have opera installed since my hd crashed
[08:36] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: i think so yes
[08:36] <AlexLatchford> hmm.. okay
[08:36] <AlexLatchford> Go for a vote on this?
[08:36] <hjmf> I had a version of mozilla and it doesnt
[08:36] <gnomefreak> -1
[08:36] <AlexLatchford> +1
[08:36] <hjmf> -1
[08:37] <AlexLatchford> (for desktop consistency reasons)
[08:37] <gnomefreak> how many people on that bug replied they want it?
[08:37] <AlexLatchford> good point..
[08:37] <ogra> how is hardcoding such a thing consistent ? make it read the default desktop settings and use what they define
[08:37] <gnomefreak> if its only 1 or 2 than no sense in it
[08:37] <Admiral_Chicago> what would +1/-1 mean?
[08:37] <hjmf> think on small screens 15' or lower
[08:38] <AlexLatchford> +1 for adding text.. -1 for leaving it off
[08:38] <AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: you have a very good point there
[08:38] <hjmf> its an *aditional* bar
[08:38] <Admiral_Chicago> -1
[08:38] <gnomefreak> we are here to please the masses not 3 people IMO
[08:38] <AlexLatchford> cool
[08:39] <AlexLatchford> Okay, I will close the report now then
[08:39] <AlexLatchford> with the decision..
[08:39] <gnomefreak> wait for asac on that
[08:39] <gnomefreak> he may have a point we are not seeing
[08:39] <hjmf> yes, lets wait till the meeting finishes
[08:40] <hjmf> if he is around which i believe
[08:40] <Admiral_Chicago> i suggest we move on and we can poll alex when he returns
[08:40] <AlexLatchford> okay.. I will draft the issue reply :P
[08:40] <AlexLatchford> okay
[08:40] <gnomefreak> btw repo is down atm
[08:40] <Admiral_Chicago> give me a sec
[08:40] <hjmf> k
[08:40] <gnomefreak> mv Packages.gz dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/
[08:40] <gnomefreak> oh shoot
[08:41] <gnomefreak> ignore that
[08:41] <Admiral_Chicago> next agenda item: Mozilla Testing Team by Alex.
[08:41] <AlexLatchford> okay
[08:41] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: talking to your terminal again?
[08:41] <gnomefreak> yep :)
[08:41] <AlexLatchford> Well this was something we brought up last meeting..
[08:41] <Admiral_Chicago> i do that too after a while, try to run commands in irssi
[08:41] <AlexLatchford> Getting a team of people who are contactable for testing specific issues
[08:42] <AlexLatchford> maybe via a mailing list or something
[08:42] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: im gonna ok this one. we have a few (10+) testing preview archive atm
[08:42] <Admiral_Chicago> oh crap, let me add something to the agenda. link in a sec
[08:42] <AlexLatchford> Think we should try to set up a mailing list, LP team to get it going a bit more formally
[08:42] <gnomefreak> the problem being and this i knew before hand. we are not getting the testing on what NEEDS to be tested
[08:43] <Admiral_Chicago> i disagree with the ML and LP team however
[08:43] <AlexLatchford> Is the changelog listing ideas we discussed last meeting going anywhere?
[08:43] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm not sure there is enough people to be pushing for those things
[08:43] <gnomefreak> tbird2 and iceape are the packages i wanted tested more than anything because they are going into gutsy. ffox3 will not be in gutsy
[08:43] <AlexLatchford> agreed
[08:44] <AlexLatchford> the team will be formally tasked then to test packages that need testing.. say setting a 2 weekly testing agenda or something
[08:44] <AlexLatchford> so you can test specific issues intensely
[08:45] <Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: that i like more than just setting the team, I wouldn't care if you used the MT ML for that
[08:45] <gnomefreak> can we please defer this one more meeting?
[08:45] <hjmf> maybe a team and people from it reporting bugs in LP (for karma points) can be motivational for them
[08:45] <AlexLatchford> hjmf: yes, it can be an introduction into the team
[08:45] <asac> damn :)
[08:45] <Riddell> AlexLatchford: yes, kde 4 apps have icons+text
[08:45] <AlexLatchford> currently there are not many *easy* tasks for new people..
[08:45] <asac> that happens if you stare in wrong channel
[08:45] <Admiral_Chicago> crap, I realized I have to run to class in 5, maybe 10 minutes.
[08:46] <AlexLatchford> Riddell: ta :)
[08:46] <gnomefreak> asac: lol
[08:46] <hjmf> lol
[08:46] <gnomefreak> asac: +1 or -1 for icons and text?
[08:46] <AlexLatchford> heh
[08:46] <asac> ouch let me read it
[08:46] <Admiral_Chicago> okay, AlexLatchford i'll have to cut in front of you, I hope that's okay
[08:46] <AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: you wish to defer the testing decision until the next meeting?
[08:46] <AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: sure thing bud :)
[08:47] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: i would like to get with asac on this and come up with a way to do this nicely
[08:47] <asac> what is current consent on the text icon stuff?
[08:47] <Admiral_Chicago> Okay, on to the last agenda item (sorry for the jumping) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
[08:47] <gnomefreak> -1 for more clutter
[08:47] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: -1 from me. (against text and icons)
[08:48] <AlexLatchford> 0 from me now, seeing the light of 15" monitior discussion
[08:48] <AlexLatchford> leaning towards -1
[08:48] <asac> so epiphany has text + icons by default? mine hasn't :)
[08:48] <gnomefreak> yes mine dies
[08:48] <gnomefreak> and i didnt change it
[08:48] <asac> i am -1 ... firefox should be the way its known to users of other OSes
[08:49] <AlexLatchford> okay settled
[08:49] <ogra> asac, epi uses gnomes default settings ...
[08:49] <Admiral_Chicago> okay we will come back to the discussion on testing team
[08:49] <gnomefreak> yay it works :)
[08:49] <asac> ogra: yes ... i was just not sure, because i changed it long ago i guess
[08:49] <Admiral_Chicago> I have to push this last agenda item before class, we started a bit later than I hoped
[08:49] <hjmf> -1 as stated above (hope not too late) :)
[08:50] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: ok whats the state?
[08:50] <Admiral_Chicago> We had decided earlier to create a Mozilla Council with david, alex, alex, john, hjmf and myself
[08:50] <gnomefreak> i would like to get all mozilla apps in testing repo before we have  ateam
[08:50] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: we are hoping, sorry
[08:50] <Admiral_Chicago> hopping around*
[08:50] <asac> Yes, clue files, right?
[08:51] <Admiral_Chicago> so, we also decided to defer it from being active until after Feisty was out
[08:52] <Admiral_Chicago> sorry, everyone look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
[08:52] <Admiral_Chicago> asac: no, mozill council
[08:52] <asac> ah ok
[08:52] <asac> what do you suggest?
[08:52] <Admiral_Chicago> now that feisty is out, we should vote to activate the council officially
[08:52] <hjmf> ah ok I was lost ;)
[08:53] <Admiral_Chicago> so we would have a council which works actively in Mozilla and helps bring in new people
[08:53] <gnomefreak> bad part everyone here is on the council so is a vote needed?
[08:53] <hjmf> all the MT is the council right now
[08:53] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: no, we said it wouldn't take effect until after feisty
[08:53] <gnomefreak> oh
[08:53] <Admiral_Chicago> hjmf: there are a few people on the LP page (iirc) that are not
[08:53] <gnomefreak> correct
[08:53] <hjmf> ok lets formally activated it
[08:54] <hjmf> *activate
[08:54] <gnomefreak> lol
[08:54] <asac> yeah
[08:54] <asac> done i think
[08:54] <Admiral_Chicago> yep, votes to active it?
[08:54] <Admiral_Chicago> +1
[08:54] <AlexLatchford> +1
[08:54] <gnomefreak> thats what im thinking (how do we do that)
[08:54] <AlexLatchford> what does activation entail?
[08:54] <gnomefreak> should we maybe bring it to CC?
[08:54] <Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: david said there was no need
[08:54] <AlexLatchford> yeah he did
[08:54] <Admiral_Chicago> we would just fall under the CC
[08:55] <gnomefreak> ok  than its activated. what next :)
[08:55] <AlexLatchford> believe he asked Jono
[08:55] <hjmf> +1
[08:55] <Admiral_Chicago> progress of clue files...
[08:55] <AlexLatchford> (Testing Team is deferred until next meeting yes?)
[08:55] <Admiral_Chicago> Alex has worked on a lot on bughelper and we have a lot of progress
[08:56] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: yeah because im not sure how much ill be here in the next 2 weeks
[08:56] <gnomefreak> and ill forget with gutsy packages.
[08:56] <Admiral_Chicago> now that LP is out of beta, we can open up the mentoring to everyone
[08:56] <asac> i think we are in a good state from bughelper, though we still don't have split output of bughelper results .. .e.g. one page by task
[08:57] <Admiral_Chicago> So I think Alex, I can get to pumping out some good clue files
[08:57] <gnomefreak> if asac stays up long enough i will talk to him in #u-mt about a few things withit
[08:57] <hjmf> asac: right, actual page is a mess
[08:57] <asac> anyway ... we could start to populate clue files with prominent stack signatures
[08:57] <Admiral_Chicago> I have to run to class. someone please take over as chair
[08:57] <asac> so it starts to find dups for us
[08:57] <Admiral_Chicago> good luck guys
[08:58] <hjmf> cu
[08:58] <asac> maybe we can even write something to automatically generate stack signature clue snippets
[08:58] <asac> from MASTER bugs
[08:59] <asac> hjmf: since you work most on stack sigs, you think you can add new MASTER bug signatures to bughelper clues?
[08:59] <AlexLatchford> sounds like a good idea..
[08:59] <hjmf> yes I can, but first I still have to master bughelper docs :-P
[08:59] <AlexLatchford> how is the retrace backlog situation going?
[08:59] <asac> i think hjmf fixed it :)
[08:59] <asac> with amazing work
[09:00] <hjmf> :)
[09:00] <AlexLatchford> Good job bud :)
[09:00] <hjmf> thank you guys
[09:01] <asac> Karma: 6797
[09:01] <hjmf> the problem with bughelper finding dups is that first the bugs have to be retraced
[09:01] <asac> yes right
[09:01] <hjmf> and right now each retrace I do automatically searches for stack signatures so dups are easily founded w/o bughelper
[09:02] <asac> how do you search for duplicate stack signatures?
[09:02] <asac> just search field?
[09:02] <hjmf> as long as they are in summary
[09:02] <hjmf> [@xxxxx] 
[09:02] <asac> yes ... soon apport will automatically add need-XXX-retrace tag on submission
[09:03] <asac> then we will have retraced results ... but in attachments
[09:03] <asac> thats when bughelper stuff might come handy
[09:03] <hjmf>  firefox -remote "openurl(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/${PACKAGE}/+bugs?field.searchtext=${STACK_SIGNATURE}&orderby=-datecreated,new-window)"
[09:03] <hjmf> asac: right
[09:03] <asac> what is stack signature for you? ... each single line?
[09:04] <asac> e.g. do you extract it automatically?
[09:04] <hjmf> =
[09:04] <hjmf>         eval "$(strip_stack $BUG_RETRACE | sed -n '/#4 / {s/#4 \+\(.[^ ] *\) .*/STACK_SIGNATURE="\1"/p;}; /#5 / {s/#5 \+\(.[^ ] *\) .*/STACK_SIGNATURE_1="\1"/p;q}')"
[09:04] <hjmf> its usually the #4 stack
[09:04] <hjmf> after the #3 <....>
[09:04] <hjmf> #3 <signal handler called>
[09:04] <asac> how many don't fit into that pattern?
[09:04] <hjmf> not too many
[09:05] <hjmf> and I look at them always
[09:05] <hjmf> as it is interactive
[09:05] <hjmf> :)
[09:05] <asac> hmm
[09:06] <hjmf> it is working with most of the reports and matches upstream searches too
[09:06] <hjmf> those ones are done by hand though
[09:07] <asac> how do you do upstream searches?
[09:07] <asac> ... or what do you mean by "matches upstream searches too" ?
[09:07] <hjmf> http://talkback-public.mozilla.org/search/start.jsp
[09:07] <hjmf> but by hand
[09:07] <hjmf> http://talkback-public.mozilla.org/reports/firefox/
[09:08] <hjmf> .. thunder bird
[09:08] <hjmf> ah, sorry, I was talking about the stacktraces from upstream reports
[09:08] <asac> oh ok.
[09:08] <asac> so what do you do with them atm?
[09:09] <hjmf> ?
[09:10] <asac> i mean how do you integrate upstream talkbacks in your current helper tool?
[09:11] <hjmf> As I stated that work is manual, it is not integrated, though I had a couple of scripts to 'beautify' our stacks to compare better
[09:11] <hjmf> with upstream ones
[09:11] <asac> ah ok
[09:11] <hjmf> sed stuff to  leave function calls
[09:11] <asac> so you have some kind of stack "normalization" code?
[09:12] <hjmf> yes
[09:12] <gnomefreak> is the meeting over?
[09:12] <asac> we are still talking :)
[09:12] <hjmf> I think we are boring you :)
[09:12] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[09:12] <asac> still no idea what to do with clue files i guess
[09:12] <gnomefreak> no i have other things im tending to
[09:12] <asac> actually on the long run it would make sense to have clues for stack duplicates
[09:12] <asac> question is whether we can generate them automatically
[09:13] <asac> e.g. from MASTER bug title
[09:13] <hjmf> asac: I agree. But currently is no need
[09:13] <hjmf> but I can work on them
[09:13] <asac> hjmf: how about generating them from search results and bug title
[09:14] <asac> should be pretty simple, right?
[09:14] <hjmf> yes
[09:14] <asac> good ... ok ... so no need to hurry in order to match crash duplicates
[09:15] <hjmf> though my idea in short term is working in pythonize my scripts to integrate them with the classes in bughelper, apport, and so on
[09:15] <asac> hjmf: that would be magnificent
[09:15] <asac> we have launchpad integration for instance
[09:15] <hjmf> yes but I wont be very confident as of my way of scripting
[09:15] <hjmf> :)
[09:15] <asac> why?
[09:15] <hjmf> as it works it's ok for me
[09:16] <hjmf> even if it is a mess :)
[09:16] <asac> hehe
[09:17] <asac> if you plan to improve launchpad integration and bughelper ocode, there are probably plenty of people willing to help
[09:17] <hjmf> I'll do some draft and I'll push to bzr as a branch or something
[09:17] <asac> yes
[09:17] <asac> thats good
[09:17] <asac> ok ... we have another item on agenda?
[09:18] <asac> testing team moved to next?
[09:19] <AlexLatchford> asac: yes
[09:19] <asac> good ... then i think we are over
[09:19] <asac> sorry again for being so late here :/
[09:20] <hjmf> :)
[09:20] <AlexLatchford> cool cool, asac can you update the agenda with the clue file decision, I was on another channel, and not nothing about clue files yet
[09:21] <asac> AlexLatchford: which page
[09:21] <AlexLatchford> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
[09:22] <AlexLatchford> just put in a short sentence about the decision made, keeps track of the decisions until I clear the page and make the minutes
[09:23] <asac> yep done
[09:23] <asac> hmmm wiki is slow on writing
[09:23] <asac> now changed
[09:24] <AlexLatchford> hmm, ta
[09:25] <hjmf> cu
[10:28] <arualavi> @schedule Andorra
[10:28] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: Current meeting: Mozilla Team | 02 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 02 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 03 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 08 May 22:00: Technical Board | 09 May 22:00: Edubuntu
[11:04] <nifan> b'noite