[12:13] <ajmitch> jdong: from rc to final
[12:13] <gnomefreak> jdong: to backport things to feisty backports you would file against feisty-backports in LP and you cant
[12:13] <gnomefreak> everything would have to be rebuilt no?
[12:14] <jdong> ajmitch: what changes are there from RC to final?
[12:14] <jdong> and who handles security updates, etc for such a backport?
[12:15] <gnomefreak> we could push that through secruity couldnt we?
[12:15] <pochu> jdong: you, of course!! :p
[12:15] <gnomefreak> security
[12:15] <jdong> if it's truly nonintrusive enough for rc->final, then SRU it.
[12:15] <jdong> force the version to final
[12:22] <ajmitch> jdong: just talk to doko about it
[12:22] <jdong>  33 files changed, 52338 insertions(+), 54230 deletions(-)
[12:22] <shawarma> ajmitch: Did you get my /msg earlier?
[12:22] <jdong> 10k of them are a UUE'd doc file
[12:23] <WebMaven> jdong: is that a lot?
[12:23] <gnomefreak> its only a fifth of the changes waits to hear others
[12:23] <WebMaven> (and the two numbers seem suspiciously close)
[12:24] <jdong> WebMaven: it's uncomrtably much, especially me not being a python dev....
[12:24] <imbrandon> jdong, where is your gutsy dsc for ktorrent ?
[12:24] <WebMaven> jdong: which two did you just compare?
[12:25] <DktrKranz> ajmitch, have you got some time to sponsor a FTBFS fix?
[12:25] <jdong> imbrandon: http://web.mit.edu/jdong/www/misc/sponsor/ktorrent_2.1.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
[12:25] <jdong> WebMaven: I compared feisty with edgy
[12:25] <ajmitch> DktrKranz: no
[12:26] <WebMaven> so, that was the diff between 2.4.4 and 2.4.4c1?
[12:26] <jdong> there is over a thousand lines in various patches and code changes
[12:26] <DktrKranz> np, thanks anyway
[12:26] <ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4961 ?
[12:27] <ryanakca> It's a chroot utility that builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and lintian + linda return no errors (Just a couple I: about a minus sign being used instead of a hypen in the man    Czessi pages)  
[12:27] <jdong> WebMaven: http://pastebin.ca/466311
[12:27] <jdong> pay no attention to the docs.uue
[12:27] <ryanakca> oops, sorry. (copy paste)
[12:29] <imbrandon> jdong, uploaded gutsy ktorrent
[12:30] <jdong> thanks imbrandon 
[12:30] <imbrandon> np
[12:30] <jdong> do you look at main SRU's too, or is that not your thing?
[12:30] <superm1> imbrandon, before i forget, could you ack that other backport that you looked over a week ago or so?
[12:30] <pochu> imbrandon: do you want to upload liferea too? :)
[12:30] <imbrandon> sometimes, depends on if its an app i am familiar with
[12:30] <jdong> imbrandon: ktorrent? :)
[12:30] <imbrandon> superm1, aure
[12:30] <WebMaven> jdong: Just about none of that is changes to Python, it's all debian stuff...
[12:30] <imbrandon> sure*
[12:31] <jdong> WebMaven: umm... *.dpatch directly patch python source....
[12:31] <WebMaven> Hmm. OK.
[12:31] <jdong> and looking over it, a direct backport won't work for sure; apport hooks are all in there
[12:31] <WebMaven> ??
[12:32] <imbrandon> links2 -g https://launchpad.net
[12:32] <imbrandon> err
[12:32] <Loic> imbrandon, libvidcore4 still hasn't showed in proposed
[12:32] <siti> with pbuilder, I want to test/make multiple packages that depend on each other, how can I do this?
[12:32] <imbrandon> Loic, it might still be on the buildd's
[12:33] <WebMaven> jdong: ??
[12:33] <Loic> Ok, thanks. I don't really know much about the time it takes :)
[12:33] <jdong> WebMaven: Feisty python is patched with apport crash handling hooks, and I'm sure Edgy's apport will not correctly react to being triggered by Python
[12:34] <imbrandon> pochu, for ?
[12:34] <WebMaven> is that apport-support.dpatch ?
[12:35] <pochu> imbrandon: liferea (and/or wesnoth)
[12:35] <jdong> yep
[12:35] <gnomefreak> pochu: you might not want to do that yet
[12:35] <pochu> gnomefreak: why?
[12:35] <WebMaven> jdong: so, leave that bit out?
[12:35] <gnomefreak> pochu: we changed alot of things on the way mozilla apps build/ depends on
[12:35] <pochu> btw, gnomefreak, what did you want yesterday?
[12:35] <gnomefreak> we == mozilla-team
[12:35] <gnomefreak> pochu: i figured it out :)
[12:36] <jdong> WebMaven: that would make it a source-change backport, but it also doesn't solve the issue with it excluded....
[12:36] <pochu> gnomefreak: I've built it here and tested it and it works fine
[12:36] <gnomefreak> i had to rebuild liferea
[12:36] <jdong>  32 files changed, 1234 insertions(+), 326 deletions(-)
[12:36] <jdong> that's still HUGE
[12:36] <gnomefreak> pochu: we havent gotten hunspell nss and nspr in yet
[12:36] <pochu> gnomefreak: hmm, how long will it take to be there? :)
[12:36] <jdong> http://pastebin.ca/466327
[12:36] <gnomefreak> hunspell == OO.o guys iirc but asac should have already pinged them about it
[12:37] <gnomefreak> pochu: i dont know atm. nss and nspr should have been pushed today but i havent seen it yet
[12:37] <pochu> gnomefreak: cool, then I'll wait
[12:37] <WebMaven> Hmm.
[12:37] <jdong> imbrandon: would you be willing to look at KTorrent SRU bug 110881?
[12:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110881 in ktorrent "[SRU]  Citical bug cherrypicks from SVN" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110881
[12:37] <WebMaven> jdong: well, if I can't have a 2.4.4 final on Edgy, I guess I can upgrade.
[12:38] <jdong> WebMaven: or you can cheat the check out of zope3.
[12:38] <Lichte> anyone here package java-gnome ?
[12:38] <WebMaven> jdong: is there a similar problem backporting Gutsy's 2.5.1 to Feisty?
[12:38] <imbrandon> jdong, yes, just not right this moment ( eating )
[12:39] <jdong> imbrandon: ok, enjoy your food
[12:39] <gnomefreak> pochu: i should know more this time tomorrow and i will let you know. is this 1.3?
[12:39] <jdong> WebMaven: yes. I general I do not backport any language stacks because it could cause a wide range of undexpected changes in behavior that I would be unable to support
[12:39] <pochu> gnomefreak: no, 1.3 is still beta, and will take some time to be final
[12:40] <gnomefreak> from what i saw its stable
[12:40] <WebMaven> jdong: I can't solve my problem by modifying Zope's source because I've got a deployment process that gets a fresh checkout of Zope3.
[12:40] <pochu> gnomefreak: it's 1.2.13 (which fixes at least 3 crashes in LP)
[12:40] <pochu> gnomefreak: it isn't
[12:40] <jdong> WebMaven: you could use a tool such as prevu to make your own python2.4 backport
[12:40] <WebMaven> jdong: that sounds interesting...
[12:40] <gnomefreak> maybe 1.2.13 im thining of but checking just ot make sure i am crazy :)
[12:40] <imbrandon> ajmitch, arround?
[12:41] <gnomefreak> yeah i see it
[12:41] <ajmitch> imbrandon: vaguely
[12:41] <WebMaven> jdong: how did Gutsy's Python2.5 accumulate so many changes so soon?
[12:41] <gnomefreak> well i pinged him to see if we pushed the libs but most likely i get answer tomorrow
[12:42] <imbrandon> have you seen many/any sarge to etch ( specificly apache2 to apache2.2 ) production updates ?
[12:42] <imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
[12:42] <jdong> WebMaven: because a Ubuntu dev uploaded a new version :)
[12:42] <imbrandon> i'm thinking about upgrading edgy --> feisty on my production webserver to get apache2.2
[12:42] <ajmitch> imbrandon: why, what's the problem?
[12:42] <pochu> gnomefreak: no worries, it can wait :)
[12:42] <ajmitch> it's not a big jump
[12:42] <imbrandon> nothing yet, just looking for pitfals if there was any
[12:43] <ajmitch> ought to work
[12:43] <WebMaven> jdong: I understand that, I mean, why is the 2.5.1 final package (for Gutsy) so different from the 2.5.1 rc1 package for Feisty?
[12:43] <imbrandon> kk
[12:43] <jdong> WebMaven: I haven't debdiffed it, but I would expect a similarly large set of changes
[12:43] <WebMaven> Are you sure it's got just as many changes as... Ah, OK.
[12:44] <WebMaven> jdong: How do I check myself?
[12:44] <gnomefreak> debdiff command
[12:44] <jdong> WebMaven: wget the dsc, orig.tar.gz, diff.gz for both releases
[12:45] <jdong> WebMaven: run debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
[12:45] <jdong> WebMaven: if the screen overflows the default size of your terminal, then no way ;-)
[12:45] <gnomefreak> lol
[12:46] <jdong> gnomefreak: :)
[12:46] <WebMaven> debdiff is not installed.
[12:46] <gnomefreak> install it?
[12:46] <jdong> install devscripts
[12:46] <pochu> ok folks, I'm off to bed now
[12:46] <jdong> I think it's in there
[12:46] <gnomefreak> jdong: sadly it is
[12:46] <pochu> If anyone wants to sponsor me, wesnoth is at http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/ :)
[12:47] <jdong> gnomefreak: apt-file search? :)
[12:47] <gnomefreak> jdong: i have had nothing but bad times with apt-file
[12:47] <jdong> hey pochu, you've been triaging some of the xserver-xgl bugs, right?
[12:48] <pochu> jdong: can't remember :)
[12:48] <pochu> jdong: I triaged some compiz bugs, beryl-core...
[12:48] <pochu> maybe xserver-xgl too
[12:48] <Amaranth> pochu: you're stuck, you've got to handle all things bling ;)
[12:48] <Amaranth> i've been worthless with bug triage lately
[12:49] <gnomefreak> me too
[12:49] <Amaranth> mostly people all the new bugs are problems caused by the package and not upstream
[12:49] <pochu> Amaranth: yeah, no activity from your side! :(
[12:49] <Amaranth> and i run fresh git
[12:49] <Amaranth> err
[12:49] <Amaranth> s/people/because/
[12:49] <jdong> WebMaven:  21 files changed, 1731 insertions(+), 94 deletions(-)
[12:49] <Amaranth> so i just ignore them and know that when compiz gets updated to 0.5 in gutsy they'll go away
[12:50] <jdong> WebMaven: a 1000 line blob labeled "svn-updates.dpatch"
[12:50] <WebMaven> jdong, gnomefreak: devscripts installed, python packages downloading.
[12:53] <pochu> Amaranth: then package it! :)
[12:53] <pochu> though I don't know whether we should package 0.4 or 0.5
[12:53] <Amaranth> pochu: hehe, i gotta work :)
[12:53] <Amaranth> 0.5 for sure
[12:54] <Amaranth> this software is so new and developing so fast the latest development version is almost certainly better than anything else
[12:55] <WebMaven> jdong: how did you get the chart?
[12:55] <jdong> WebMaven: pipe it to diffstat
[12:55] <jdong> (install diffstat first!)
[12:56] <pochu> night all!
[12:56] <jdong> WebMaven: my "adjusted" charts are from unpacking the sources and removing *.uue
[12:56] <Amaranth> jdong: dude with a 3 year old laptop and a native upstart system got a 19 second boot
[12:56] <Amaranth> from grub to X asking him to login (with the e17 login manager)
[12:56] <jdong> Amaranth: damn! where'd you get native upstart?
[12:56] <jdong> wrote your own events?
[12:56] <Amaranth> not me
[12:56] <Amaranth> i'm thinking with his setup i'd get like 10 seconds though :D
[12:56] <jdong> cool
[12:57] <Amaranth> he doesn't have too many extras though
[12:57] <Fujitsu> Hopefully Gutsy will see replacement of some of that stuff.
[12:57] <Amaranth> just "this shit needs to boot", X, and the things dbus used to start
[12:57] <Amaranth> err, is needed to boot
[12:57] <Amaranth> and wow i'm in -motu, not forums :)
[12:57] <WebMaven> jdong: OK.
[12:58] <WebMaven> can you paste your chart so I don't have to do that too?
[12:58] <jdong> WebMaven: ok
[12:58] <jdong> WebMaven: http://pastebin.ca/466357
[12:59] <jdong> WebMaven: as I've said before, you can probably do these backports yourself with prevu or pbuilder without a hitch...
[12:59] <jdong> but it is not appropriate for the official backports repo
[12:59] <WebMaven> can you tell what the heck that svn-updates.dpatch is?
[01:00] <WebMaven> everything else is pretty small.
[01:00] <jdong> WebMaven: a gigantic clump of code updates pulled from python SVN
[01:00] <jdong> that's the part I am most worried about :D
[01:01] <WebMaven> you mean, they just grabbed stuff from svn *on top* of the official python release?
[01:01] <jdong> yep
[01:01] <WebMaven> :-(
[01:01] <jdong> WebMaven: http://pastebin.ca/466362 diffstat on that dpatch
[01:02] <jdong> it makes changes all over the charts
[01:02] <ryanakca> anybody?
[01:03] <WebMaven> Hmm. alll the .tex stuff is docs.
[01:03] <jdong> it's not the docs that I'm worried about
[01:03] <jdong> it's the other changes it makes to every other module in there that bothers me
[01:03] <Amaranth> #
[01:03] <Amaranth> #
[01:03] <Amaranth>  Modules/cPickle.c                  |   19 +-
[01:03] <Amaranth> #
[01:03] <Amaranth>  Modules/cStringIO.c                |   16 +-
[01:03] <WebMaven> Lib/test are, well, tests.
[01:03] <Amaranth> #
[01:03] <Amaranth>  Modules/posixmodule.c              |    7
[01:03] <Amaranth> #
[01:03] <Amaranth>  Objects/exceptions.c               |    2
[01:03] <WebMaven> yeah.
[01:03] <Amaranth> #
[01:03] <Amaranth>  Objects/longobject.c               |    8 +
[01:04] <Amaranth> whoa, bad paste
[01:04] <Amaranth> those right there make it an instant "no"
[01:04] <Amaranth> and/or "over my dead body"
[01:04] <WebMaven> yeah, I see that.
[01:04] <Amaranth> unless it's broken up into pieces and each patch explains what it does
[01:04] <Amaranth> jdong: you're horrible :P
[01:04] <jdong> Amaranth: LOL
[01:05] <WebMaven> This is just crazy.
[01:05] <jdong> may I propose the crackpot "don't tell us you did this" solution.....
[01:05] <WebMaven> Eh?
[01:06] <jdong> change the #define'd version to 2.4.4 in the source, release type FINAL instead of GAMMA
[01:06] <jdong> and dpkg-buildpackage
[01:06] <jdong> lol
[01:06] <WebMaven> Ew.
[01:07] <jdong> I know
[01:07] <WebMaven> Well, for 2.4.4, I just need to upgrade to Feisty.
[01:07] <jdong> but zope wouldn't know the difference :D
[01:07] <jdong> yeah, that'll fix your problems too
[01:07] <ajmitch> you can tell zope to ignore the python version anyway
[01:08] <WebMaven> ajmitch: yes, I am aware of that.
[01:08] <ajmitch> WebMaven: I knew you would be :)
[01:09] <WebMaven> I have an automated build-and-deploy system I am dependent on that pulls a fresh Zope3 down and compiles it in a workingenv directory.
[01:09] <jdong> modify your deployment system then :)
[01:10] <WebMaven> if it was *mine* I would.
[01:10] <WebMaven> And, in any case, passing the python explicitly is *very* annoying.
[01:10] <ajmitch> agreed
[01:11] <jdong> is forcing the version to appear as final really that crackful?
[01:11] <ajmitch> jdong: it can be
[01:11] <jdong> heck it's not like the current naming isn't deceptive already with SVN cherrypicks
[01:12] <WebMaven> But, based on these stats, I understand why a backport isn't in the cards.
[01:13] <WebMaven> crackful?
[01:18] <WebMaven> dabaR: ??
[01:21] <dabaR> :)
[01:21] <WebMaven> dabaR: I know about the tab key...
[01:23] <WebMaven> dabaR: I don't get it... what were you trying to tell me?
[01:23] <dabaR> WebMaven: you never got a reply. I suggested prepending his nick.
[01:23] <WebMaven> Oh, I see. Thta was convoluted.
[01:24] <WebMaven> jdong: crackful?
[01:24] <jdong> i.e. unwise, insane
[01:25] <ScottK> jdong: Doesn't that mean you'll be in favor?
[01:27] <jdong> :P
[01:27] <jdong> I am trying this new 10-step program.
[01:27] <WebMaven> |-Q
[01:27] <jdong> it's working, so hush :)
[01:30] <WebMaven> How can you tell it is working?
[01:31] <WebMaven> 'cause I've been using this spray-can of elephant repellent all day, and whadaya know, I haven't seen an elephant all day...
[01:31] <Adri2000> I have an announcement for everyone who wants to start working on merges... :)
[01:31] <Adri2000> After 3 days coding, here it is: DaD, written by Lutin and me, is a free Merge-o-Matic with features such as comment ability on the web page and automatic maintainer field update (another great feature is that it's up to date)
[01:32] <Adri2000> It may be still a bit buggy with some particular packages, patches welcome :)
[01:32] <Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/ (note: it's still updating)
[01:32] <TheMuso> Adri2000: You rock!
[01:32] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[01:32] <sharms> Adri2000: looks awesome
[01:32] <TheMuso> I might modify grab-merge.sh to talk to that if you don't mind.
[01:32] <TheMuso> Unless you have done one already?
[01:32] <Adri2000> TheMuso: already done
[01:33] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[01:33] <Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/grab-merge.sh should work :)
[01:33] <Lutin_> :)
[01:35] <TheMuso> Perhaps this is worty of an addition to the topic.
[01:35] <Toadstool> Adri2000: send a mail to u-motu@, this is awesome!
[01:35] <TheMuso> Heya Toadstool.
[01:35] <Toadstool> hey TheMuso 
[01:35] <Adri2000> hey Toadstool :)
[01:36] <Lutin_> hey Toadstool 
[01:36] <Toadstool> hi Adri2000 & Lutin_ 
[01:36] <ajmitch> Adri2000: if only it were completely accurate :)
[01:37] <Adri2000> ajmitch: explain?
[01:38] <ajmitch> don't worry, I thought it had ignored the section changes, but I see the .patch generated is against the last debian version
[01:38] <ajmitch> it does drop earlier ubuntu changelog entries though
[01:39] <Adri2000> ajmitch: which package?
[01:39] <ajmitch> or not..
[01:39] <Adri2000> "It may be still a bit buggy with some particular packages" < it's probably one of those :)
[01:39] <ajmitch> looks like the debian maintainer included them
[01:39] <ajmitch> which isn't usual
[01:40] <DktrKranz> Adri2000, Lutin, good work :)
[01:40] <Lutin> ajmitch: so, is it an acutal issue ?
[01:40] <Lutin> DktrKranz: thanks
[01:40] <DktrKranz> just a little question, if I can
[01:40] <ajmitch> Lutin: doesn't appear to be, for this one
[01:41] <Lutin> ajmitch: yay :)
[01:41] <Lutin> DktrKranz: sure
[01:41] <ajmitch> just appears to be a sync request now
[01:41] <DktrKranz> how do you manage comments?
[01:41] <TheMuso> I have one of my packages here and it seems to have the changelog entries II previously added.
[01:41] <Lutin> DktrKranz: ask Adri2000 :=) . it's a php thing, I can't tell
[01:42] <Adri2000> DktrKranz: you mean how does one change them?
[01:42] <Adri2000> DktrKranz: or how do we store them?
[01:42] <DktrKranz> both
[01:43] <Adri2000> 1) change it and press enter
[01:43] <Adri2000> 2) they are stored in a file
[01:43] <Adri2000> and we use php
[01:44] <WebMaven> Adri2000: how long will it take to complete? It is up to 'nethack' right now.
[01:44] <DktrKranz> understood, thanks
[01:44] <DktrKranz> once again, good work guys :D
[01:45] <Adri2000> WebMaven: well currently it's downloading a 55Mb file, so it may take some time
[01:45] <Lutin> DktrKranz: once again, thanks ;)
[01:45] <Adri2000> WebMaven: but it's the first time we run the script completly, then it will be just updates
[01:46] <Fujitsu> Did I do something wrong, or does the LVM initramfs hook have to be manually modified to boot from a VG with snaphots?
[01:46] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Let me guess. Gutsy?
[01:46] <Fujitsu> No, Feisty.
[01:46] <Toadstool> Adri2000: how often will the page be updated once the first update is complete?
[01:46] <TheMuso> oh
[01:46] <Fujitsu> Creating snapshots to check that an upgrade doesn't totally screw things up.
[01:47] <TheMuso> ah
[01:47] <Fujitsu> But upon rebooting, I had to load dm-snapshot in the initramfs manually, and mount everything.
[01:47] <Lutin> Toadstool: we don't know yet
[01:47] <Adri2000> Toadstool: dunno, once a day would be good?
[01:48] <ajmitch> well debian only updates daily
[01:48] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: Where'd you get the scripts to do that?
[01:48] <Fujitsu> I thought MoM was nice and closed.
[01:49] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: you think it's that hard to duplicate?
[01:49] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: from my head and Lutin's head :p
[01:49] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Well, probably not.
[01:49] <ajmitch> Adri2000: bzr branch for it?
[01:49] <Adri2000> ajmitch: not yet
[01:49] <Fujitsu> I just thought it looked surpisingly similar.
[01:49] <Lutin> ajmitch: not yet. still needs dome cleanups / fixes
[01:49] <Lutin> some*
[01:50] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: How's your upstream bandwidth?
[01:51] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: not a lot :p
[01:51] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: we will probably move to another server soon
[01:52] <ajmitch> Adri2000: please turn comments of the form "bug #12345" into the appropriate lp link please :)
[01:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
[01:53] <Adri2000> ajmitch: it's an <input type="text">, you can't make links in that :/
[01:53] <ajmitch> suck
[01:56] <Lutin> maybe we could generate an LP link from the comment and place it somewhere
[01:56] <WebMaven> wow, bug #12345...
[01:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
[01:57] <WebMaven> What a special number...
[01:58] <jdong> I still like bug 666 the best
[01:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 666 in malone "can't file a bug on Ubuntu" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/666
[01:58] <WebMaven> pretty soon we'll have #123456
[01:58] <WebMaven> only about 22k more bugs to go.
[01:59] <Lutin> jdong: yeah, definitely that bug was evil ;)
[01:59] <jdong> :)
[01:59] <Fujitsu> WebMaven: #111367 is one of the latest, so it's a lot less than that to go.
[02:00] <WebMaven> 12k, then.
[02:06] <WebMaven> Well folks, I am signing off. Thank you all for being patient in explaining why what I wanted is not reasonable. ;-)
[02:06] <Fujitsu> Adri2000: There's a bug somewhere in the last uploader thing. It says plotdrop was last touched by Riddell, which is wrong.
[02:06] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: you sure/
[02:07] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: he sponsored my upload
[02:07] <Fujitsu> Ah, that might do it.
[02:07] <Lutin> Fujitsu: it's ok
[02:07] <Fujitsu> You're listed in the Changed-By field, though.
[02:07] <Lutin> Fujitsu: it _was_ last touched by ridell
[02:07] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:08] <nixternal> MOTU peeps! my first Gutsy merge is awaiting you at bug 111370
[02:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111370 in xgalaga "[Gutsy MoM]  Merge xgalaga_2.0.34-42ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111370
[02:08] <nixternal> now merge it and make me happy!
[02:08] <LaserJock> but I'd think if I was Changed-By then it'd me that'd be lists as 'last touched by"
[02:08] <nixternal> hola LaserJock!
[02:08] <Fujitsu> Oops, there is no Changed-By. I was looking at the wrong LP field.
[02:09] <LaserJock> nixternal: hola me amigo
[02:09] <Fujitsu> I looked at the portlet, didn't see a Riddell, but did see a LaserJock. Oops.
[02:17] <TheMuso> Well I have determined that Internode's mirror is not fast enough for gutsy development.
[02:17] <TheMuso> Not synced fast enough even.
[02:18] <imbrandon> MoM is running now ?
[02:19] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Dad is. :)
[02:19] <LaserJock> imbrandon: doesn't look like it to me
[02:19] <TheMuso> Me neither.
[02:20] <imbrandon> hola LaserJock and TheMuso
[02:20] <TheMuso> Heya imbrandon .
[02:24] <ScottK> Good evening everyone....
[02:25] <imbrandon> ello ScottK
[02:25] <TheMuso> ScottK: Oh fun.
[02:27] <LaserJock> ScottK: what?
[02:28] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you going to Seville?
[02:28] <ScottK> LaserJock: Just saying hello.
[02:29] <LaserJock> a 6hr phone conference, that's insane
[02:31] <imbrandon> LaserJock: no :(
[02:32] <ScottK> Well it's better than 6 hours on a plane to Californica, sleep in a hotel, sit in a conference room for 6 hours, go back to the hotel and then another 6 hours in a plan (or worse yet, no hotel and redeye).
[02:32] <ScottK> err California.
[02:33] <swj> will pidgin make into feisty once released?
[02:33] <ScottK> No
[02:33] <swj> thanks
[02:34] <ScottK> swj: New packages go into the developmental release (Gutsy now).
[02:36] <ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4962 ? It's a chroot utility (jailki9t) that builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and lintian + linda return no errors (Just a couple I: about a minus sign being used instead of a hyphen in the man pages)
[02:40] <superm1> imbrandon, could you possibly do a short revu?  http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=4910
[02:41] <imbrandon> ugh
[02:42] <imbrandon> apache2 broke
[02:43] <LaserJock> I sure wish MoM was up and running, I liked the graphs and nifty lists:-)
[02:43] <ScottK> ryanakca: Are you shipping the debian dir in your orig.tar.gz?
[02:43] <ryanakca> ScottK: yes
[02:43] <ScottK> Is it meant to be a debian native package?
[02:44] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Use dad for the time being. :p
[02:44] <TheMuso> oh graphs
[02:44] <jdong> superm1: I get brandon first!
[02:44] <TheMuso> right
[02:44] <superm1> lol jdong .  come on...... :)
[02:44] <ScottK> ryanakca: Unless it's a native app, that's discouraged.
[02:44] <jdong> NO. MY imbrandon :)
[02:44] <TheMuso> I'll be available to do some in a sec, as soon as I get these few packages uploaded.
[02:45] <ryanakca> meant to be that way? well the guy packaged it for the apps site, and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=268254 ... but it never went past that
[02:45] <ubotu> Debian bug 268254 in wnpp "ITP: jailkit - chroot jail utilities" [Unknown,Open]  
[02:46] <ryanakca> (aka, he's packaged it, and kept it up to date, and you can get a .deb off the project's site, but he hasn't gotten it uploaded to debian)
[02:46] <ryanakca> ScottK: scrap the original debian/ and start from scratch?
[02:46] <LaserJock> you don't need to start from scratch
[02:46] <ScottK> ryanakca: At this point you ship a non-native version number with a debian dir in orig.tar.gz.
[02:46] <ScottK> ryanakca: Not necessarily.
[02:47] <LaserJock> but if there's no real reason for a native package you should remove or move it
[02:47] <ryanakca> non-native version number?
[02:47] <ScottK> ryanakca: about the debian dir, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
[02:47] <ScottK> Native packages don't have the epoch.
[02:47] <ScottK> IIRC
[02:48] <ryanakca> kk
[02:48] <ScottK> Bottom line is it's your call, but it looks like maybe it should be a native package.
[02:48] <ScottK> It's got no utility outside Debian packaged distros...
[02:49] <ryanakca> ok. so, unless it's a native app, it shouldn't have a debian/ . But, it looks like it should be a native package?
[02:49] <ryanakca> native package = ?
[02:49] <ScottK> I think look in the Debian New Maintainer's guide.
[02:50] <ryanakca> ah
[02:51] <ryanakca> ScottK: what do you mean it has no use outside Debian packaged distros?
[02:51] <ryanakca> It's used to create chroots...
[02:51] <ryanakca> http://olivier.sessink.nl/jailkit/
[02:52] <persia> How does one update comments in DaD?  I'd like to add a bug number for one of my uploads for which a merge already has a bug.
[02:52] <persia> ryanakca: Generally native packages are not developed outside Debian.  If there is an upstream, it shouldn't be native.
[02:53] <ryanakca> ScottK: kk, I'll repack it
[02:56] <TheMuso> Adri2000: Your grab-merge script doesn't create/download the scripts for building the source package with the appropriate version number.
[02:56] <ryanakca> is the wiki down?
[02:57] <ryanakca> MOTU/FAQ doesn't want to load...
[02:59] <Adri2000> TheMuso: with which package for example?
[02:59] <ryanakca> And, for REVU people. w.u.c/MOTU/Packages/REVU says 'please use [WWW]  The revu-Development-Center for feature requests and bug reports.' Click on the link, you go to http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi , and you get a 403
[02:59] <TheMuso> Adri2000: I am working on my distcc merge, and there is no merge-* scripts.
[02:59] <TheMuso> MoM usually includes merge-genchanges and merge-buildpackage
[03:00] <Adri2000> TheMuso: ah these scripts, yes sorry I removed them, because I have never used them :p I can re-add the few missing lines
[03:00] <TheMuso> Righto.
[03:01] <TheMuso> Adri2000: Thanks. Saves a bit of time.
[03:01] <bddebian> Goddamnit, I know I submitted that bug for rate-engine to Debian
[03:02] <Adri2000> TheMuso: done
[03:03] <TheMuso> Adri2000: Thanks again.
[03:14] <bddebian> ajmitch: Now what did I do? :-)
[03:16] <ryanakca> ScottK: ok. I've renamed it to jailkit_2.3repacked1.orig.tar.gz (and it doesn't have a debian/). How do I tell debuild to use the new orig.tar.gz instead of the old one?
[03:18] <TheMuso> looks like LP has some problems
[03:18] <ajmitch> never
[03:18] <jdong> yeah I mean white and green?
[03:18] <jdong> oh.. you mean technical problems
[03:18] <persia> TheMuso: Retry a few times.  I'm having occasional pages load.
[03:18] <TheMuso> I am getting internal server error, for only one package.
[03:19] <TheMuso> nope its all good now
[03:26] <superm1> TheMuso, will you be able to revu my package, or a few more in line yet ahead of me/
[03:26] <LaserJock> hmm, so somebody in my LUG sent an email today about how Ubuntu was totally not newbie friendly
[03:26] <ajmitch> LaserJock: quite right, it's not
[03:27] <ajmitch> neither is windows
[03:27] <LaserJock> his objection was that there were no GUI system configuration tools
[03:27] <LaserJock> I was offering to get a bunch of Feisty cds in Seville for the LUG and he thought it was a bad idea :/
[03:28] <ajmitch> there are some areas where ubuntu is definitely lacking in management tools
[03:29] <LaserJock> yeah, but I would think there would be less configuration that needed to be done
[03:29] <TheMuso> soyuz must be choking or something... I'm awaiting two acceptance emails.
[03:29] <LaserJock> at least that's how I find it
[03:30] <TheMuso> superm1: I have to do a few house chores first, then I might do some reviewing of merges.
[03:31] <superm1> K TheMuso, thx
[03:32] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it depends on what area
[03:32] <ajmitch> some of the fedora tools (system-config-*) really are quite useful
[03:34] <LaserJock> so it seems this guy suggests PCLinuxOS
[03:34] <keescook> Lutin, Adri2000: \o/   (yay DaD!)
[03:34] <ryanakca> well, on the Fedora tools (system-config-*)
[03:36] <LaserJock> I've been playing around with openSUSE a little and some of the Yast tools are pretty nice
[03:36] <imbrandon> yast slow
[03:36] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:36] <imbrandon> its nice but slow
[03:36] <LaserJock> package management is rough
[03:37] <LaserJock> but there's some interesting things in there
[03:37] <imbrandon> hrm server upgraded to fiesty, not too many hickups
[03:38] <imbrandon> had to reinstall libapache2-*
[03:38] <imbrandon> but all else went well, even updated OpenFire, hrm that software really should be packaged
[03:39] <LaserJock> has Ubuntu's emphasis on new users dissuaded devs from developing system config tools?
[03:40] <imbrandon> not really, kubuntu has guidance
[03:40] <imbrandon> and a whole new systemsettings appart from KDE
[03:40] <imbrandon> :)
[03:40] <jdong> burn :)
[03:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: no, I've been writing some :)
[03:49] <ajmitch> Toadstool: "Update to some CVS snapshot"? :)
[03:53] <ScottK> ryanakca: Did you get your problem sorted out?
[03:54] <ScottK> imbrandon: Guidance is an official KDE app now.
[03:54] <imbrandon> ScottK: yea but only JUST now
[03:55] <imbrandon> kubuntu has been using it 2+ releases
[03:55] <imbrandon> :)
[03:55] <imbrandon> guidance is the first non c++ app in kde svn too 
[03:55] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:55] <ScottK> Go Python.
[04:08] <persia> Anyone familiar with GLU C++ code?
[04:17] <ryanakca> ScottK: I've renamed it to jailkit_2.3repacked1.orig.tar.gz (and it doesn't have a debian/). How do I tell debuild to use the new orig.tar.gz instead of the old one?
[04:18] <TheMuso> ryanakca: Is there a reason why you have repacked1 in the version field of the tarball?
[04:18] <TheMuso> c
[04:18] <ryanakca> TheMuso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ see Upstream already provided a debian-dir in the orig.tar.gz, what now?
[04:19] <TheMuso> ryanakca: I assume you've asked upstream?
[04:20] <plugwash> it says you may have to repack but not that you always have to.
[04:22] <plugwash> afaict the only reasons to repack would be licensing issues or a file that somehow caused problems so early in the build process you couldn't remove it from the clean target (which is the standard debian way of dealing with unwanted upstream files that don't suffer license problems)
[04:22] <ryanakca> TheMuso: no.
[04:23] <TheMuso> ryanakca: Well as the FAQ says, ask them to kindly remove it.
[04:23] <ryanakca> plugwash: well, the upsteam debian/ works fine.
[04:23] <ryanakca> TheMuso: kk
[04:23] <ryanakca> TheMuso: and then I just put it back it... seems kindof like a waste of energy...
[04:23] <ryanakca> oh well.
[04:23] <ryanakca> I'll email him
[04:24] <TheMuso> ryanakca: The debian dir you are to create for ubuntu is likely going to be a lot cleaner. The Ubuntu debian dir will also be in the .diff.gz.
[04:25] <ryanakca> TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jailkit-0704292120/jailkit-2.3/debian/ well, I was thinking of just copy pasting. Lintian doesn't give any errors, nor does linda. And it builds without errors in pbuilder. kk
[04:28] <persia> ryanakca: There are a few packages in the repository that start with the upstream Debian dir, and only carry local changes in diff.gz.  This is not recommended by policy, but saves repacking the tarball.  You'll want to make sure to remove all upstream entries in Debian/changelog, and use a proper <upstream-version>-<revision> version in your changelog entry, but it should work.  Still a good idea to speak to upstream.
[04:30] <ryanakca> persia: kk
[04:31] <ryanakca> will do
[04:31] <plugwash> i guess it could cause some issues with the changelog when updating the package but nothing too hard to handle
[04:31] <ryanakca> Thanks :)
[04:31] <plugwash> personally i think persuading upstream to remove a usefull feature from thier source is a mean thing to do
[04:31] <ryanakca> persia: do I leave him as XBCS-Original-Maintainer?
[04:31] <ryanakca> yeah
[04:32] <ryanakca> XSBC-
[04:32] <persia> ryanakca: I only use that for Debian maintainers, as they asked for it.  For a package not in Debian, check with Upstream to see whether they want to receive Ubuntu bugs directly.  Also, there shouldn't be a difference between XSBC-foo and XBCS-foo.
[04:35] <ryanakca> persia: ah, so the order of letters in XSCB doesn't matter?
[04:35] <persia> plugwash: The changelog is usually the problem.  Some upstreams use Debian/changelog instead of Changelog, which gets very confusing when trying to separate upstream changes from packaing changes, and which versions were released.  Also, some upstreams don't worry about policy much.
[04:35] <persia> ryanakca: It shouldn't (but use XSBC-, because everyone does).
[04:36] <ryanakca> kk
[04:36] <ryanakca> thanks
[04:46] <plugwash> persia yeah i agree upstreams shouldn't be using the debian/changelog as thier main changelog
[05:05] <superm1> imbrandon, ping?
[05:11] <imbrandon> superm1: pong
[05:12] <superm1> imbrandon, i've got the script finished up and functional on pegasus
[05:12] <superm1> so i wanted to see how this interaction with the buildd's happened now
[05:13] <superm1> its in /var/cache/mythbuntu_build/weekly_fixes_branch_build.sh 
[05:14] <superm1> resultant source packages are put into /var/cache/mythbuntu_build/builds/pool/feisty/weekly ATM
[05:15] <imbrandon> ok i am busy for the next 2 or 3 hours, but i'll add iot to my list to check out here in a few
[05:15] <superm1> k
[05:15] <imbrandon> i have to be at work in 3 hours and will have time to poke it then
[05:31] <nixternal> is there anything funky I need to do on my 64bit box to test build 64bit packages?
[05:33] <persia> nixternal: As long as you have a 64-bit kernel, and 64-bit libraries, you're all set.  If you have 32-bit stuff, you probably want to use some sort of virtualization environment.
[05:35] <joejaxx> imbrandon: do you have a ubuntu server disc laying around? or image?
[05:37] <imbrandon> yea why?
[05:38] <joejaxx> can you pastebin me the contents of files in /preseed/?
[05:38] <joejaxx> contents of the files in /preseed/
[05:51] <imbrandon> hrm i dont seem to have one arround, thought i did
[05:51] <imbrandon> ubuntu on dells ( officialy now ) woot
[05:52] <ajmitch> imbrandon: dell PR out yet?
[05:52] <joejaxx> imbrandon: it alright :) thanks for looking
[05:54] <ScottK> But are they going to ship it with Automatix?
[05:54] <ScottK> It had to be asked.
[05:54] <joejaxx> ScottK: :P
[05:55] <ajmitch> ScottK: go away
[05:58] <imbrandon> ajmitch: no just the canonical support emplyees blogs
[06:00] <nixternal> ya, kind of odd a blog would try and be the announcement, but nothing via feedburner on it yet
[06:01] <nixternal> I just found out you can get SLED on their N series laptops, I didn't know that until the teachers were pimping them at school today
[06:01] <persia> Will Ubuntu automatically drop packages dropped in Debian, or should a removal bug be filed?
[06:02] <ajmitch> I wonder if he'll get in trouble for posting it before dell does
[06:03] <nixternal> ajmitch: I wondered the same
[06:03] <nixternal> then again, I wonder how much noise Dell is really going to make with it outside of the community
[06:04] <nixternal> I didn't realise they already sold Linux laptops
[06:04] <nixternal> the closest thing I got with the N series was no OS, but they seem to charge more for hardware then
[06:05] <nixternal> Compaq/HP was the only company to accept the fact I denied the EULA and give me money back for not using Vista
[06:08] <jmg> nixternal: michael dell rolls feisty
[06:08] <nixternal> Michael Dell also rolls 10 other machines loaded with bloatware :)
[06:08] <nixternal> and one with Vista which is even worse ;p
[06:10] <nixternal> hopefully Mr. Dell will fix his company and make them #1 in hardware sales and support again
[06:10] <jmg> nixternal: none of them use vista
[06:10] <jmg> that i saw
[06:10] <nixternal> jmg: sure there is, his big crazy box is Vista
[06:10] <jmg> i liked what gartner said about dell reactivating xp sales
[06:10] <nixternal> he runs Vista Ultimate on his XPS 710
[06:10] <jdong> I'll consider Dell again once my HS sysadm buddies tell me they're NOT filling out 2 HDD RMA's per week on 1000 PC's....
[06:11] <nixternal> jmg: wow, they upgraded Michael Dell's page, he runs Vista on everything now
[06:11] <jmg> "this is weird, normally you see consumers clamoring for the latest and greatest"
[06:11] <nixternal> all but that one M90 laptop
[06:11] <jmg> hmm... could that mean... vista sucks hard?
[06:11] <nixternal> and he had more machines the last time I looked as well
[06:11] <jmg> url?
[06:11] <nixternal> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd_computers?c=us&l=en&s=corp
[06:12] <jmg> it seems he plays a lot of games
[06:12] <jmg> they should list what games he plays
[06:12] <nixternal> well, he needs to stop and pick dell up out of the hole the last idiot created
[06:13] <nixternal> Sims :)
[06:13] <nixternal> all of that power, and he plays the sims..haha
[06:13] <nixternal> now that would be funny
[06:14] <jmg> or solitaire
[06:14] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:14] <jmg> actually i think they are games on his desktop, i just dont know what 
[06:14] <jmg> he has two laptops, one for gaming and one for work
[06:15] <persia> Life is good.
[06:15] <persia> -ECHANNEL
[06:18] <ajmitch> nixternal: thanks, but I'd prefer an archive admin do it
[06:18] <nixternal> orly
[06:19] <nixternal> RAOF: yes :)
[06:19] <nixternal> at least I have been running it, the latest here and it seems pretty good
[06:19] <nixternal> it actually worked right from the get go
[06:19] <RAOF> You mean I won't have to add stupid LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrappers around it?  Awesome.
[06:20] <nixternal> I didn't add them
[06:20] <nixternal> hehe
[06:20] <nixternal> but who knows what will happen between now and when it is your turn ;)
[06:21] <jdong> RAOF: poke me if you ever get democracyplayer working right
[06:21] <jdong> backports camp is whining about it too
[06:21] <RAOF> jdong: The infuriating thing is, the Feisty version works for me!
[06:21] <RAOF> *Perfectly*
[06:21] <jdong> heh
[06:22] <RAOF> Feel free to backport the current Feisty version.  It'll work on amd64, at least :)
[06:22] <jdong> RAOF: ok I'll quote you and approve the backport kthxbye :D
[06:22] <jdong> lol
[06:23] <RAOF> nixternal: So you downloaded the 0.9.5.3 version from upstream?
[06:24] <RAOF> nixternal: (getdemocracy.org, not debian)?
[06:24] <nixternal> RAOF: yes, but this is built on Slackware
[06:24] <nixternal> Python 2.5
[06:24] <RAOF> Oh.  Right.
[06:24] <RAOF> They probably don't have a high enough python-dbus version to trigger some of the bugs :P
[06:24] <nixternal> it is the latest, I compiled it out of boredom on Sunday
[06:25] <nixternal> err, that would be yesterday
[06:25] <nixternal> man, I love Slackware, but I am sorry, I can't deal with all of the work anymore
[06:25] <nixternal> I could package Python 2.5 before it tests, packages, builds, makes, installs, and blows up on Slackware
[06:26] <RAOF> Hm.  I *tried* upstream's 0.9.5.3 when I was packaging, and it didn't seem to help very much. :(
[06:28] <nixternal> umm, where is the power down in Ubuntu?
[06:30] <ajmitch> nixternal: ?
[06:30] <nixternal> I can logout, hibernate, lock screen, and switch user, but I cannot power off, or reboot for that matter
[06:30] <ajmitch> funny
[06:30] <ajmitch> usually it shows there
[06:31] <nixternal> OK, so it is something goofy here
[06:31] <nixternal> well, I wonder if that is going to happen with every ShipIt CD?
[06:31] <ajmitch> my sync request still isn't appearing
[06:31] <nixternal> I just received the LoCo Feisty ShipIts, and installed Ubuntu 64
[06:51] <persia> mneptok: For what?
[06:51] <ajmitch> hey mneptok 
[06:52] <mneptok> persia: maintenance of a new package.
[06:52] <ajmitch> oh dear
[06:52] <mneptok> heya ajmitch 
[06:52] <mneptok> yeah, exactly. "oh dear."
[06:52] <ajmitch> so what are you seeking fresh blood for?
[06:52] <persia> mneptok: Erm.  I'm not around constantly enough to do a good job.  Sorry.
[06:53] <mneptok> dead-simple Java app
[06:53] <RAOF> Yeah, what package?  I may be able to help, if it's... not java :)
[06:54] <ajmitch> eww
[06:58] <persia> Could anyone point me to a good GTK1.2 -> GTK2.0 migration guide?
[06:59] <ajmitch> mneptok: aw
[06:59] <ajmitch> mneptok: how simple is it, and what is it? :)
[06:59] <ajmitch> mneptok: general practice is to file a bug, tagged with needs-packaging
[07:00] <ajmitch> & hope that someone picks it up in the next 2 years
[07:00] <ajmitch> since there are already a few hundred bugs filed like that
[07:00] <TheMuso> Can one look at the build queue for an arch?
[07:00] <ajmitch> yes
[07:00] <mneptok> ajmitch: yeah, there's such a backlog that if someone doesn't jump, i won't burden LP. in 5 years i may have a clue about Debian packaging. or not care.
[07:00] <TheMuso> Whats the URL?
[07:01] <ajmitch> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/i386/+builds
[07:01] <mneptok> ajmitch: http://jirc.hick.org
[07:01] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[07:02] <ajmitch> mneptok: oh dear, looks worrying
[07:02] <mneptok> ajmitch: the dist dir could be dropped in place. then you just need a .desktop and >=sun-java5-jre
[07:03] <mneptok> [mneptok@ra]  mneptok :: ls /usr/local/share/jIRCii 
[07:03] <mneptok> docs  extra  jerk.jar  license.txt  readme.txt  whatsnew.txt
[07:03] <mneptok> works like a charm
[07:03] <ajmitch> mneptok: the license (artistic) is sufficiently screwy
[07:04] <mneptok> 00:47 <@mneptok> `butane: i need to get off my ass and get a .deb built for the Ubuntu repos.
[07:04] <mneptok> 00:47 < `butane> mneptok: yes :)
[07:04] <mneptok> he's happy to have us do whatever we please.
[07:06] <mneptok> no worries
[07:06] <ajmitch> way too much else on my plate right now :)
[07:06] <ajmitch> like uds in a few days
[07:07] <mneptok> the "ictim" part of "voluntictim" tends to bring one's current responsibilities into much sharper focus.
[07:07] <ajmitch> :)
[07:11] <ajmitch> ah, the hills are alive with speculation about dell
[07:11] <ajmitch> just wonderful
[07:12] <persia> ajmitch: You don't approve?
[07:12] <mneptok> ajmitch: you should see EtienneG hand-wringing over a MOTU app ;)
[07:12] <ajmitch> mneptok: when is he going to do that?
[07:12] <mneptok> "these guys do this all day. they have years of experience. i'm just some new guy."
[07:13] <ajmitch> persia: it could increase the community support requirements a fair bit
[07:13] <ajmitch> mneptok: hah!
[07:13] <mneptok> ajmitch: 'zackly
[07:13] <ajmitch> most of us *can't* do it all day
[07:13] <ajmitch> and few of us have years of experience
[07:13] <mneptok> ajmitch: he may have to be the first to have MOTU-ship thrust upon him
[07:13] <ajmitch> he'll have to fight his way past the evil motu council
[07:14] <mneptok> maybe in Seville. grab him and throw him in the pool.
[07:14] <persia> ajmitch: "could"?  I would expect it to, but I would also expect that it would result in more input on bugs, which is sometimes a good thing.
[07:14] <lifeless> ajmitch: you mean if dell ship ubuntu ?
[07:14] <mneptok> when he gets out, raging, welcome him aboard >:)
[07:14] <ajmitch> lifeless: yeah
[07:14] <ajmitch> we're already drowning
[07:15] <lifeless> ajmitch: it will only make a difference if end users that current buy dell, and stick to windows, start buying and choosing ubuntu.
[07:15] <mneptok> persia: input on bugs is a signal-to-noise endeavor. sadly, Dell desktop users tend to use low-wattage broadcasting.
[07:15] <lifeless> ajmitch: I think that if dell start shipping ubuntu we'll see only a few new users.
[07:15] <ajmitch> mneptok: a useful analogy
[07:16] <ajmitch> lifeless: we'll see how it goes - I don't think many will go out of their way to get ubuntu
[07:16] <persia> mneptok: perhaps.
[07:16] <sharms> I was attempting to do a merge request for gajim, but it appears the dependencies dont work right in my builder.  I am a bit rusty, do I fix the depends just for python 2.5 or should I keep 2.4 in also?
[07:17] <mneptok> stock?
[07:17] <ajmitch> 20" lcd monitor
[07:17] <ajmitch> fairly cheap at the time
[07:18] <mneptok> persia: nah, ajmitch is too erratically violent to be a good bug reporter ;)
[07:18] <lifeless> ajmitch: I think the main consequence of dell shipping ubuntu is that they will be committing to good hardware support and currently users that buy and wipe windows will be able to just buy.
[07:18] <ajmitch> mneptok: when have I ever hurt you? :)
[07:18] <ajmitch> lifeless: that, I will welcome
[07:18] <mneptok> ajmitch: every night as i fall asleep alone
[07:19] <ajmitch> you almost make me feel sorry for you
[07:19] <mneptok> then you remember, my suferring is like nectar.
[07:20] <mneptok> suffering, too
[07:20] <mneptok> bleh. elf needs nicotine.
[07:38] <crimsun> FWIW, a couple Dell engineers have been commenting on audio bugs
[07:39] <crimsun> not that that's any indication, but I certainly didn't see that during previous cycles
[07:39] <jdong> crimsun: I can tell you are saying that with an enthusiastic smile on your face
[07:40] <jdong> *sounds* great though :)
[07:40] <crimsun> the pun is murderous.
[07:40] <jdong> haha
[07:47] <crimsun> mm, gutsy.
[07:48] <crimsun> evolution-mail-CRITICAL **: mail_tool_uri_to_folder: assertion `uri != NULL' failed    Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[07:49] <jdong> crimsun: maybe it's a mutation in its memory pool.
[07:49] <jdong> ok, ok, I promise, I'll stop :D
[07:53] <ajmitch> crimsun: does that mean we can murder someone making puns like that?
[07:53] <crimsun> I like the deliberate ambiguity.  :)
[08:18] <boss-bcp> ajmitch: "It is not necessary to specify packages that are in build-essential, especially with tight versioning like this." -> I followed the Debian New Package Maintainer's Guide for Build-Depends. How would you do it otherwise? Would you leave build-essential out entirely?
[08:20] <persia> boss-bcp: If a package is depended on by build-essential, you don't need to have it in build-depends.  All buildds have build-essential installed already.
[08:21] <boss-bcp> ajmitch: Also, CUPS keeps all those symlinks in /usr/lib/cups/backend. If that changes, then CUPS will likely be Kerberized at that point. Have you tested libpam-cups out or were you commenting based on what the postinst seems to do?
[08:21] <boss-bcp> persia: Okay, I will make the change accordingly.
[08:28] <boss-bcp> persia: Have you taken a look at libpam-cups? ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4936 )
[08:28] <boss-bcp> persia: If not, how would you do the postinst to account for both ipp and smb?
[08:29] <ajmitch> boss-bcp: they may be symlinks for you, but here they're not
[08:29] <ajmitch> the only symlink is smb
[08:30] <persia> boss-bcp: I haven't.  My apologies, I'm not very familiar with ipp or smb.  You'd do better to ask someone else.
[08:30] <boss-bcp> ajmitch: As part of the Google Summer of Code, yes. I don't think it materialized.
[08:30] <ajmitch> I'll ask him if I see him online today
[08:30] <boss-bcp> ajmitch: Until then, libpam-cups is a temporary fix.
[08:31] <ajmitch> right
[08:31] <ajmitch> and if two packages don't cooperate with alternatives, you use dpkg-divert
[08:31] <boss-bcp> Okay, I'll look into it. Thanks.
[08:44] <patoh> Hello, I am looking for a place to obtain the patch/s that ubuntu applies agenst firefox to get the gnome priniting dialog rather than the xul one. The large .diff on launchpad for firefox is of very little help, can anyone point me to a place where I can get the patch/s that you guys apply.
[08:46] <imbrandon> patoh, might start at http://patches.ubuntu.com/
[08:46] <gnomefreak> patoh: apt-get source firefox than go into debian/patches
[08:48] <patoh> gnomefreak: would require ubuntu installed
[08:48] <patoh> thanks imbrandon I will look into it :)
[08:48] <gnomefreak> yeah it would and seeing as this is a ubuntu channel the assumption would be you are running ubuntu ;)
[08:48] <persia> gnomefreak: The directory doesn't exist in any case
[08:48] <gnomefreak> persia: sure it does
[08:49] <gnomefreak> persia: has been packaging it
[08:49] <gnomefreak> i have been even
[08:49] <patoh> no firefox directory in http://patches.ubuntu.com/f/ =/
[08:49] <persia> gnomefreak: Something must be odd about my config then.  Hrm.
[08:49] <patoh> unless they are debian patches
[08:49] <gnomefreak> persia: are you looking in the source?
[08:50] <persia> gnomefreak: I'm in .../firefox-2.0.0.3+15/ after `apt-get source firefox`
[08:50] <patoh> can anyone point me to where debian keep their patches as they don't seem to be ubuntu patches but rather ones merged from debian.
[08:51] <crimsun> err...
[08:51] <crimsun> utter parse error
[08:51] <gnomefreak> /home/gnomefreak/firefox_build/firefox2.0.0.x/ubuntu-2.0.0.x/debian/patches
[08:53] <persia> gnomefreak: Strange.  No worries: it's probably something wrong locally.
[08:54] <gnomefreak> persia: you may be before the new patching (cant think of word atm)
[08:55] <gnomefreak> persia: we have changes the way patches work in mozilla apps along with nss and nspr and a bunch of other things (you will see most of this in gutsy) i do believe we released the last release for feisty with new patching system
[08:55] <persia> gnomefreak: Probably.  I checked on a machine which has seen various updates from various sources recently in an attempt to understand differences between various packages :)
[08:59] <persia> Is a build-dependency on x-dev considered a bug?
[09:01] <crimsun> at this point, a minor one, yes, but one nonetheless
[09:01] <crimsun> err, sorry
[09:01] <crimsun> misparse
[09:01] <crimsun> I meant xlibs-dev
[09:01] <persia> crimsun: So, if I'm porting a package from wx2.4 to wx2.6, I should probably fix that too?
[09:02] <persia> crimsun: Ah, no, this is x-dev.
[09:02] <crimsun> err, it shouldn't list x-dev at all, since libwxgtk2.6-dev covers it
[09:03] <persia> crimsun: Right.  I'll fix it then.  It's one of those packages used by 27 people, which doesn't get as much attention as it might.  Thanks.
[09:05] <gnomefreak> i read something (i think on motu membership) that i had to have my key signed by a devel. is that motu devel/uploaders or core-devel?
[09:05] <joejaxx> i think motu
[09:06] <persia> Does LP enforce that now?
[09:14] <crimsun> gnomefreak: core-dev definitely has that requirement; MOTU should, too (and does IIRC)
[09:14] <crimsun> gnomefreak: aren't you still in the Triangle, NC area?
[09:14] <gnomefreak> yeah
[09:14] <crimsun> I'm only ~70 mi east of you
[09:15] <crimsun> s/east/west/
[09:15] <gnomefreak> yep give or take but i wasnt sure if it was motu signing it or core devels signing it
[09:15] <crimsun> it's too early in the morning :-)
[09:15] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:15] <gnomefreak> i havent slept yet
[09:15] <crimsun> well, theoretically any dev in the strong set suffices
[09:15] <crimsun> if you can make it to a TriLUG meeting, nearly all of us are in the strong set
[09:16] <gnomefreak> oh ok. by the look of things atm july/august would be next one i can get to
[09:17] <crimsun> hmm.  I think I'll be flying out of RDU in a couple weeks if that's more convenient.
[09:18] <gnomefreak> i know atm im tied up for the next 3 weeks 
[09:19] <gnomefreak> well it will be a while before i can apply for motu anyway :(
[09:19] <gnomefreak> as much as ive been doing none of it is on my lp page
[09:20] <gnomefreak> but looks like iceape will be mostly mine
[09:21] <joejaxx> :)
[09:21] <crimsun> that's a significant undertaking :-)
[09:21] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: ftw! :)
[09:21] <Fujitsu> crimsun: I only joined the strong set three weeks ago. It's not a requirement, it appears.
[09:22] <crimsun> Fujitsu: just a flip of the LP switch, so to speak?
[09:22] <Fujitsu> That's right.
[09:22] <Fujitsu> Now, I must be off to TAFE.
[09:22] <gnomefreak> i hope iceape works out its been hell so far :(
[09:22] <Fujitsu> Hopefully this machine will boot fine since the Gutsification.
[09:22] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Mozilla stuff is hell. Sorry.
[09:23] <joejaxx> i have no idea how i am going to get mine signed
[09:23] <gnomefreak> fuits getting better
[09:23] <joejaxx> there is not anyone near me
[09:23] <jussi01> can some one point me to the channel where the know all about the leagal stuff for ubuntu?
[09:24] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: where are you?
[09:24] <joejaxx> new jersey
[09:24] <gnomefreak> ha
[09:24] <gnomefreak> damn
[09:24] <joejaxx> yeah
[09:24] <crimsun> ah, you just missed ogmaciel, who moved down from NJ to NC
[09:24] <gnomefreak> NY is closest people i know near there
[09:25] <crimsun> hmm, isn't there an NJ locoteam?
[09:25] <joejaxx> :)
[09:25] <joejaxx> yeap
[09:25] <crimsun> /someone/ in it has to be in the strong set
[09:25] <gnomefreak> yes but im not sure it ever took off
[09:25] <persia> joejaxx: If the strong set is all you need, try https://biglumber.com/x/web?qs=New+Jersey.  Developers may be a bit harder.
[09:27] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm maybe i should stop him from uploading ffox :(
[09:27] <joejaxx> persia: oh ok thanks
[09:58] <joejaxx> the birds are chirping and it is 4am
[10:02] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: iceape troubles again? :(
[10:02] <gnomefreak> no firefox-trunk
[10:02] <ranf> hi
[10:02] <joejaxx> hello
[10:02] <gnomefreak> hi
[10:03] <gnomefreak> i was hoping to have it in my repo yesterday but they changed something upstream and i think that is what is causing it but when i get up later ill play with it more
[10:04] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: oh ok 
[10:06] <gnomefreak> ok im goin gto try and get sleep night
[10:06] <joejaxx> alright
[10:06] <joejaxx> Goodnight gnomefreak 
[10:10] <persia> Could someone who knows C++ better than I please explain what x means in http://pastebin.us/30006?  I don't understand the scope or type for this.
[10:11] <Hobbsee> persia: looks like a temporary variable, inside a function
[10:11] <Hobbsee> er, a class
[10:11] <dholbach> good morning
[10:11] <jsgotangco> hello
[10:11] <Jucato> local variable in GetTabMsg?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> a class, which gets returned
[10:11] <Jucato> ooh hi jsgotangco :)
[10:11] <persia> Hobbsee: so if I want to use a fancy unicode-aware constructor, I should do something like wxString x = <constructor>?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
[10:11] <joejaxx> good morning dholbach 
[10:12] <dholbach> heya Hobbsee
[10:12] <dholbach> hey joejaxx
[10:12] <Hobbsee> persia: no idea.  i usually use foo = class(bar)
[10:12] <Hobbsee> or whatever
[10:12] <ajmitch> hey dholbach 
[10:12] <persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  I'll try that.
[10:12] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[10:42] <dholbach> hey slomo
[10:43] <ajmitch> hm, playing a game, and suddenly 1 monitor claims it's out of range
[10:43] <ajmitch> now that is strange
[10:53] <jekil> hello
[10:54] <Hobbsee> hi jekil 
[11:48] <TheMuso> Evening folks.
[11:50] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[11:50] <dholbach> TheMuso: there are some merges/updates left on the a11y front - are you going to take care of them?
[11:51] <TheMuso> dholbach: Sure. Is there a list anywhere?
[11:51] <dholbach> orca is done
[11:51] <dholbach> there's a new lsr
[11:51] <dholbach> i did accerciser too
[11:51] <TheMuso> Thats done.
[11:51] <dholbach> nice
[11:51] <TheMuso> I did speech-dispatcher today also, and am waiting for an update to espeak which I will do later this wee.
[11:52] <TheMuso> week
[11:52] <dholbach> ok, no gnome/a11y updates left then
[11:52] <dholbach> maybe we can look at the accessibility/+packagebugs page for checking if there are merges to do
[11:52] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:53] <TheMuso> I'll have a look in a bit.
[11:53] <dholbach> thanks a lot
[11:53] <TheMuso> np
[11:54] <TheMuso> imbrandon: When are we likely to have a gutsy pbuilder for ubuntuwire machines, particularly sparky?
[11:59] <geser> aurora has already one
[12:00] <TheMuso> Right. Well since thats i386, I don't need it. :)
[12:00] <ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
[12:01] <TheMuso> Hey ajmitch.
[12:02] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Do you have admin on sparky? I'm wondering if you would be so kind as to get a gutsy pbuilder set up? There is no hurry.
[12:02] <ajmitch> yeah I could
[12:03] <TheMuso> As I said. No hurry, just want to find out more about why a package FTBFS only on sparc.
[12:04] <TheMuso> Looked at the log, and its something to do with headers, but I need to check for myself independantly.
[12:04] <ajmitch> not linux-libc-dev stuff still?
[12:04] <TheMuso> DOn't know.
[12:05] <ajmitch> sparc buildds are a little slower, I suspect
[12:05] <TheMuso> Thats why I want to have a look.
[12:05] <TheMuso> Yeah probably.
[12:14] <imbrandon> TheMuso, there should be one already, if nopt lemme make it now
[12:14] <imbrandon> not*
[12:14] <imbrandon> ajmitch, did you start already ? if not i will
[12:16] <ajmitch> nope
[12:16] <TheMuso> imbrandon: There isn't a script for it at least
[12:17] <imbrandon> doing it now
[12:17] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[12:17] <TheMuso> brb
[12:20] <TheMuso> back
[12:37] <imbrandon> TheMuso, almost done, few more minutes ( sparky is kinda slow hehe )\
[12:38] <TheMuso> imbrandon: No problem.
[12:38] <geser> imbrandon: I'm just curious: why points intrepid (which should be ppc) to aurora?
[12:38] <ajmitch> night all
[12:40] <persia> night ajmitch
[12:41] <geser> Lutin: about DaD: You are currently highlighting the debian revision. Is it possible to also highlight new upstream versions? That would be handy short before UVF
[12:42] <imbrandon> geser, intrepid had somehardware problems i'm trying to fix and aruror just took its ip for the moment as a secondary one
[12:45] <Lutin> geser: yep, that's planned ;). I can't do it though, as I don't know php
[12:59] <geser> Lutin: who should I contact about the webpage? Adri2000?
[12:59] <geser> I've an other suggestion: add the date when the page got generated
[01:03] <shawarma> Is there really any point in pointing out that we've done the DebianMaintainerField dance in each and every package we change?
[01:03] <Lutin> geser: yes, you can contact Adri2000 for the web stuff. we're adding what you said right now
[01:07] <persia> shawarma: It's good to have it in the changelog, at least until everything is updated.  This makes it easier to see at a glance which packages are modified locally.
[01:08] <shawarma> persia: You can see that from the version anyway.
[01:09] <DktrKranz> Lutin, I discovered a little problem when grabbing kolab-webadmin
[01:09] <Lutin> DktrKranz: yep ?
[01:09] <DktrKranz> if I mind well, it only downloads REPORT file
[01:10] <DktrKranz> it's not urgent, I already did the merge
[01:10] <DktrKranz> (the debdiff, actually)
[01:11] <Lutin> DktrKranz: you mean, it does not download any file ?
[01:11] <DktrKranz> just REPORT file
[01:11] <persia> shawarma: There's still heaps of packages unchanged.  Perhaps when the migration is complete, it won't be required anymore.
[01:11] <Lutin> (anyways, packages whose name contains '-' are not processed correctly, fix commited but the packages haven't been updated)
[01:12] <DktrKranz> nice to know
[01:15] <imbrandon> TheMuso, gutsy pbuilder all ready to go on sparky
[01:17] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Thanks.
[01:18] <imbrandon> np
[01:18] <shawarma> imbrandon: yay!
[01:20] <imbrandon> btw for those of you still learning and that dont read p.d.o , Miriam put up a nice multi binary package howto for beginers 
[01:20] <imbrandon> http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=42
[01:33] <DktrKranz> TheMuso, around?
[01:33] <TheMuso> DktrKranz: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[01:34] <TheMuso> DktrKranz: Whats up?
[01:34] <DktrKranz> have you got some time to sponsor a FTBFS fix?
[01:34] <TheMuso> Sure.
[01:34] <TheMuso> Bug number?
[01:34] <Lutin> geser: around ?
[01:35] <DktrKranz> bug #96339
[01:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 96339 in phpgroupware "[UNMETDEPS]  phpgroupware has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96339
[01:35] <TheMuso> DktrKranz: Why is it marked fix committed?
[01:36] <DktrKranz> erm, \sh uploaded a previous version, I forgot to pass it to Confirmed...
[01:36] <TheMuso> ah I see why
[01:37] <TheMuso> O having a look now.
[01:38] <shawarma> Lutin: What sort of bandwidth do you have to DaD?
[01:38] <Lutin> shawarma: low
[01:38] <shawarma> Lutin: Want a mirror?
[01:38] <shawarma> I've got lots and lots of space and bandwidth.
[01:39] <Lutin> shawarma: we're going to move to a new server hopefully soon :)
[01:39] <persia> Lutin: How does one update the comments field?  There's a couple merges of mine for which there are bugs.
[01:39] <shawarma> Lutin: Cool.
[01:40] <Lutin> persia: edit the comment and press enter ?
[01:40] <persia> Lutin: Ah.  I thought it was just display.  Thank you.
[01:41] <Lutin> persia: np
[01:58] <TheMuso> DktrKranz: Looks good. Did you test build your previous debdiff that has this problem?
[01:58] <TheMuso> that caused even
[01:58] <DktrKranz> yes, this time I checked :)
[01:58] <DktrKranz> looks good to me, I've got a build log, if you want to see it
[02:00] <DktrKranz> previous debdiff missed a comma
[02:00] <TheMuso> DktrKranz: I saw that, but did you test build it?
[02:01] <DktrKranz> do you mean the new debdiff? yes, I did
[02:01] <TheMuso> never mind, uploading.
[02:02] <DktrKranz> I did both
[02:03] <TheMuso> Ok.
[02:03] <TheMuso> uploaded.
[02:03] <DktrKranz> thanks
[02:03] <jussi01> Could someone tell me if we can accept programs where "all rights reserved" comes after the copyright? what is the stance on this?
[02:03] <TheMuso> np
[02:09] <persia> TheMuso: Are you especially attached to nethack?  I'd be happy to process that (having touched that source before).
[02:09] <TheMuso> Pumpernickel: No I'm not. Go ahead.
[02:09] <TheMuso> sorry, persia ^^
[02:09] <TheMuso> slip of the finger.
[02:09] <persia> TheMuso: No worries: I've been called stranger foodstuffs :)
[02:10] <TheMuso> heh
[02:10] <TheMuso> persia: Let me know when you're done, and I'll review it.
[02:10] <jussi01> lol
[02:12] <TheMuso> Pumpernickel: Sorry, accidentally tab-completed your nick instead of another.
[02:12] <TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
[02:13] <Hobbsee> heya :)
[02:23] <shawarma> Is Debian doing SSP by default, too?
[02:35] <persia> TheMuso: 111477
[02:35] <TheMuso> bug 111477
[02:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111477 in nethack "Please merge nethack 3.4.3-10.1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111477
[02:36] <persia> TheMuso: If you have time now, feel free to grab any of my others
[02:36] <TheMuso> persia: Ok I'll see how I go.
[02:51] <persia> The new upstream (and Debian) gmsh compiles under feisty, but not under gutsy.  The problem appears to be with the GLU headers.  Could anyone suggest how I might track that down (or does anyone know about a GLU issue such that I shouldn't try)?
[02:52] <shawarma> persia: GLU is the same in feisty and gutsy (so far).
[02:52] <persia> shawarma: That's why I'm confused.
[02:53] <TheMuso> persia: Pbuilder up to date
[02:53] <Hobbsee> persia: i wonder if all the libc*-dev stuff got fixed...
[02:53] <persia> TheMuso: I don't use pbuilder, but the gutsy environment is up to date (about an hour old, actually).
[02:54] <TheMuso> Ok.
[02:54] <persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps.  I thought that was all because of dash vs. bash though.
[02:54] <TheMuso> persia: What do you use?
[02:54] <Hobbsee> chroot, probably
[02:54] <persia> TheMuso: depending on my mood, vmware or hardware.  Usually more vmware earlier in the cycle, and more hardware later.
[02:54] <TheMuso> Right.
[02:55] <TheMuso> I would advise to use something like pbuilder for test building however.
[02:56] <persia> TheMuso: I thought the main advantage there was to make sure that there were sufficient build-depends.  Are there other advantages?  (same for schroot or the like)
[02:57] <Kmos> persia: to see if patches are applied
[02:57] <persia> Kmos: I don't understand.
[02:58] <Kmos> with pbuilder you can see if patches for the package are correctly applied
[02:59] <luisbg> anyone knows where I can find some wiki ubuntu admins?
[02:59] <persia> Kmos: Ah.  I typically create .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, and .dsc, copy them to a fresh snapshot, and use dpkg-source -x and debuild to check.  Perhaps more manual, but it does find at telling me what worked.
[03:00] <Kmos> :))
[03:00] <Kmos> it's another way
[03:00] <Fujitsu> pbuilder-somerelease build something.dsc
[03:00] <Fujitsu> Much easier.
[03:00] <TheMuso> persia: pbuilder is a lot quicker.
[03:02] <persia> OK.  I'm convinced.  When I've finished my wx2.4 project, I'll go investigate scripted build environments again.
[03:05] <TheMuso> um... how is requestsync called again? So long since I used it, I have forgotten.
[03:05] <TheMuso> The second argument particularly.
[03:06] <dabaR> luisbg: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki
[03:06] <Fujitsu> requestsync somepackage gutsy
[03:06] <TheMuso> ah thats right.
[03:29] <siretart> is the launchpad mail buginterface down or just slow?
[03:29] <persia> siretart: Down (or at least no mail for > 12 hours)
[03:31] <siretart> persia: k. thanks
[03:32] <Fujitsu> Oh, good. I was hoping it wasn't my mail being stupid.
[03:33] <persia> There's no updates in #ubuntu-bugs either
[03:34] <Fujitsu> That uses the bugmail.
[03:34] <persia> Earlier LP was having internal errors, and bugmail stopped around then.  I expect it is being worked on, but there are still issues.
[03:34] <Lutin> Fujitsu: do you have 2 minutes ?
[03:34] <Fujitsu> Lutin: Sure.
[03:35] <Lutin> Fujitsu: what was exactly the issue concerning DaD and wxmaxima ? I'm not sure I understood your mail correctly
[03:37] <Fujitsu> Lutin: The orig.tar.gz of wxmaxima in Ubuntu and Debian differ, although they have the same name.
[03:37] <Fujitsu> This causes dpkg-source to fail when debdiffing, so things go very wrong.
[03:37] <Fujitsu> fujitsu@aurora:~/Merge/wxmaxima$ wc -l wxmaxima_0.7.1-0ubuntu1.patch 
[03:37] <Fujitsu> 0 wxmaxima_0.7.1-0ubuntu1.patch
[03:37] <Fujitsu> That, for example.
[03:39] <persia> The same probably occurs for all -0ubuntuX packages...
[03:39] <siretart> Fujitsu: is this the same problem in libdts?
[03:39] <Fujitsu> siretart: Try to debdiff it, and see if it complains about a size/checksum mismatch.
[03:39] <siretart> k
[03:40] <Fujitsu> Like so:
[03:40] <Fujitsu> dpkg-source: error: file wxmaxima_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz has size 694125 instead of expected 679327
[03:40] <siretart> i see
[03:40] <Fujitsu> In this sort of case, MoM puts it in the manual merge list.
[03:40] <Lutin> Fujitsu: oh, I see
[03:41] <Lutin> persia: not quite sure about that..azureus seems to somewhat work
[03:44] <persia> Lutin: The orig.tar.gz names differ.  This is probably because of the repack.  For free software, I would expect failure.
[03:45] <Fujitsu> persia: No, for most it will be fine.
[03:45] <Fujitsu> wxmaxima probably ships as a .tar.bz2 or something, so it has to be recompressed.
[03:46] <persia> Fujitsu: For most -0ubuntuX differences?
[03:46] <TheMuso> c/
[03:46] <Fujitsu> persia: Right.
[03:46] <Lutin> most -0ubuntuX should work
[03:46] <Fujitsu> In this case I can't see why they differ, but most won't.
[03:46] <persia> I've usually had trouble with merging -0ubuntuX versions, but perhaps it's just me.
[03:47] <Fujitsu> -0ubuntuX versions are the only ones that this will occur in, but it won't occur in all of them.
[03:47] <Fujitsu> Well, it can happen in later ones, actually, if they've been merged with Debian since.
[03:48] <persia> Fujitsu: depends on the merge.  If Ubuntu changes are applied to Debian base (as recommended), it doesn't happen.  If Debian changes are applied to Ubuntu base, the issue continues.
[03:49] <Fujitsu> persia: the orig.tar.gz cannot change. Soyuz won't let that happen.
[03:49] <Fujitsu> Once it's uploaded, it's stuck like that until a new upstream version.
[03:49] <persia> Grumble.  My understanding of recommendations is flawed.
[03:49] <Fujitsu> ?
[03:50] <persia> I thought that new Ubuntu revisions were supposed to attempt to mirror Debian revisions, including the adoption of Debian .orig.tar.gz where appropriate.  Apparently Soyuz prevents this.
[03:50] <Fujitsu> dak doesn't let that happen either.
[03:51] <Fujitsu> As far as I know, at least.
[03:51] <persia> This complicates the packages.qa.debian.org patch tracking interface.  For dak, I suspect it's less of an issue, as Debian tends to let primary maintainers upload each upstream, with NMUs mostly restricted to revisions.
[03:52] <Lutin> which is not always true with native ones
[03:52] <dharrigan> Hi. If, using debuild, can I tell it to sign packages once it's done?
[03:53] <Fujitsu> dharrigan: It does by default.
[03:53] <persia> Lutin: Native revisions?
[03:53] <Fujitsu> Lutin: Please, no native NMU versioning...
[03:53] <Lutin> persia, Fujitsu : don't remember where, but I'm sure there's a native-NMU package somewhere
[03:53] <persia> testapp 14.32.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.14
[03:54] <Fujitsu> Lutin: Oh, there are.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> And they're missing from your merge list.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> I was about to report that.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> carpaltunnel is one of mine, and it's not there.
[03:54] <Fujitsu> it doesn't need a merge, but the versioning means it looks like it does.
[03:55] <Fujitsu> persia: Not quite. native-NMUing involves sticking a -0.1 on the end.
[03:55] <Lutin> Fujitsu: native-NMU packages need to be merged as well, don't they ?
[03:56] <Fujitsu> Lutin: They do, yes.
[03:56] <Fujitsu> But ubuntuX > -0.1.
[03:56] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Thank you.
[03:57] <Lutin> Fujitsu: oh
[03:57] <Fujitsu> carpaltunnel 0.0.9ubuntu2 is actually 0.0.9ubuntu1's changes merged into 0.0.9-0.1.
[03:57] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir attacked me for that upload, until I explained it was the only way
[03:58] <Fujitsu> Basically, native-NMUing sucks, and breaks out versioning completely.
[03:58] <Fujitsu> s/out/our/
[03:59] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: lovely
[03:59] <TheMuso> persia: Nethack uploaded.
[03:59] <persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
[03:59] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yep, pretty much.
[04:00] <Fujitsu> I've done a couple of those now.
[04:00] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Probably need to give the debian maintainer a stern talking to.
[04:00] <TheMuso> :)
[04:01] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why?
[04:01] <TheMuso> ...or not. sorry didn't read quite properly. :)
[04:02] <jdong> I love it when they all arive, and my e-mail libnotify popups skyrocket
[04:02] <Fujitsu> I've got the nethack one already.
[04:02] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: gutsy-changes?
[04:02] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Right.
[04:02] <TheMuso> wow. I thought that list would be just a little busy.
[04:03] <persia> Shows in my LP package list as well.
[04:03] <Lutin> Fujitsu: why couldn't you do 0.0.9-0.1 => 0.0.8-0.1ubuntu ? it wouldn't have been considered as native the n?
[04:03] <Fujitsu> Lutin: Argh, it's the Mithrandir question again!
[04:03] <Fujitsu> 0.0.9ubuntu1 > 0.0.9-0.1
[04:04] <Fujitsu> I can't upload something less than what's already there.
[04:04] <dharrigan> Hi, I've uploaded some packages to my own repository, and when I try to install them I get the "cannot be authenticated" warning message. I've added my key to the apt-key ring
[04:04] <dharrigan> what step am I missing?
[04:04] <StevenK> dharrigan: Did you generate a Release and Release.gpg file?
[04:05] <persia> Perhaps Ubuntu should avoid natives by always using something like 0.0.9-0ubuntu1.
[04:05] <StevenK> persia: But then it isn't a native package.
[04:05] <TheMuso> here
[04:05] <Fujitsu> persia: That implies an eternal diff from Debian for everything native.
[04:05] <dharrigan> StevenK: yes, a Release, but no Release.gpg
[04:05] <Fujitsu> Night, TheMuso .
[04:05] <persia> StevenK: Exactly.  The diff.gz would be blank (or only Ubuntu changes).
[04:05] <StevenK> dharrigan: Then that's what you're missing - a Release.gpg
[04:05] <dharrigan> I'm using apt-ftparchive to generate my rleases
[04:06] <StevenK> persia: No, it wouldn't, based on how dpkg works.
[04:06] <dharrigan> I guess it's a switch on there
[04:06] <StevenK> Hrm, maybe it would.
[04:06] <persia> Fujitsu: Why?  0.0.9-0ubuntu1 > 0.0.9 and < 0.0.10, isn't it?
[04:06] <StevenK> It would be easy to stuff up.
[04:06] <persia> StevenK: very easy
[04:07] <Fujitsu> persia: We already had a 0.0.9ubuntu1, which was already > 0.0.9-0.1
[04:07] <Fujitsu> Wait, I think I misread that.
[04:07] <persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  In your case, you did the 100% correct thing.  I was thinking of a new guideline to prevent others from having your issue.
[04:07] <Fujitsu> persia: We still need an eternal diff from Debian to keep the different version...
[04:09] <persia> Fujitsu: Hrm?  When Debian releases 0.0.10, including all the patches we submitted back, we can sync.  When we diff, we can use 0.0.10-0ubuntu1, which is less than the NMU 0.0.10-0.1 or 0.0.10-0.1ubuntu1 if NMU'd (I think.  Now I'm going to play with dpkg --compare-versions)
[04:09] <Fujitsu> Oh, only when we make changes, I see.
[04:09] <StevenK> I won't be 0.0.10-0.1
[04:09] <StevenK> That is non-native
[04:09] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Yes it will!
[04:09] <persia> StevenK: Are you especially attached to bacula?  It represents 10% of the remaining dependencies on wx2.4, and I'd like to merge, if you don't mind.
[04:09] <Fujitsu> That's native-NMUing.
[04:10] <StevenK> persia: It's the only merge I have!
[04:10] <StevenK> Mine!
[04:10] <persia> StevenK: OK.  Yours.
[04:10] <StevenK> I have to fight other people for them.
[04:11] <StevenK> Fujitsu: That's a matter of opinion.
[04:11] <StevenK> Fujitsu: And one that hasn't been resolved, to my satisfaction, anyway.
[04:11] <persia> dpkg --compare-versions agrees with me.
[04:11] <Fujitsu> Oh, right. It's only in the Developer's Reference.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> StevenK: there are plenty of merges for everyone...
[04:12] <persia> Hobbsee: No, he can have that one.  It means there is a community helping with wx2.4 abolishment.  I'm in favour of that.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> lol
[04:13] <jdong> Hobbsee: needed something from earlier?
[04:14] <dharrigan> I'm getting a BADSIG now that I've created a Release.gpg and after running apt-ftparchive
[04:14] <Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, wondering if a backprot of kvpnc from edgy to dapper works.  or feisty to dapper
[04:15] <jdong> good question
[04:15] <StevenK> dharrigan: Then it isn't signed/created right.
[04:15] <dharrigan> StevenK: I thought that debuild would create the sign for me?
[04:16] <StevenK> Why would debuild generate a Release.gpg?
[04:17] <dharrigan> StevenK: I've done that manually by runnning gpg against Release
[04:17] <dharrigan> gpg -abs -o Release.gpg Release
[04:18] <StevenK> Then I'm out of ideas, sorry.
[04:18] <jdong> doesn't the signed Release need to contain the md5sums of all the Packages files?
[04:18] <persia> Lutin: Are you especially attached to thuban?  It represents 11% of the remaining dependencies on wx2.4, and I'd like to merge it, if you don't mind.
[04:19] <Lutin> persia: sure, do it :)
[04:19] <dharrigan> jdong: the relesae file contains all the md5's
[04:19] <persia> Lutin: Thank you.
[04:19] <Lutin> persia: np
[04:29] <dharrigan> Anyone? I'm googling away but can't seem to find anything helpful to solve my BADSIG problem
[04:30] <asac> BADSIG?
[04:31] <dharrigan> GPG error: http://www.harrigan.info unstable Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 6B9BD284E2BE72FC David Harrigan <dharrigan@gmail.com>
[04:32] <dharrigan> it's in my apt-key list (as root)
[04:32] <ogra> as root ?
[04:32] <ogra> you shouldnt touch packages as root ...
[04:32] <dharrigan> I'm installing a package, so need to sudo
[04:35] <ogra> sure
[04:35] <ogra> but you are talking about building packages and signing, no ?
[04:36] <jdong> Hobbsee: building edgy->Dapper right now... past depcheck so probably will succeed
[04:36] <Hobbsee> right
[04:36] <crimsun> "open sauce Ubuntu".  Nice.
[04:37] <dharrigan> ogra: yes, I'm building as a normal user.
[04:37] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:37] <ogra> dharrigan, than you should sign as a normal user as well ;)
[04:37] <dharrigan> then I'm uploading them to my server, running apt-ftparchive then gpg on the Release file, then I'm trying to sudo apt-get update and I get this user.
[04:37] <ogra> i.e. not with roots gpg key)
[04:37] <persia> Hello bddebian
[04:38] <dharrigan> I do sign as a normal user. on the server, I have my gpg keys
[04:38] <bddebian> Heya persia
[04:38] <Adri2000> DaD updated :)
[04:39] <dharrigan> ahhh
[04:39] <dharrigan> wait just a moment
[04:39] <dharrigan> I'm using debuild -us which means don't sign it
[04:41] <ivoks_> so, it's official - ubuntu on dell machines?
[04:41] <bddebian> Yeah?
[04:41] <siretart> huh?
[04:41] <ivoks_> yes
[04:41] <ivoks_> http://news.com.com/Dell+picks+Ubuntu+for+Linux+PCs/2100-7344_3-6180419.html
[04:41] <persia> Lutin: thuban looks like it should be a sync, but depends on newer packages in Debian.  I'll update DaD, but not process it.  Apologies for the false hope.
[04:42] <Lutin> persia: so, it'll be synced ?
[04:42] <bddebian> Hmm, thuban rings a bell for some reason
[04:43] <persia> Lutin: It can't sync now - it doesn't build.  Debian moved to wx2.6, so there's no need to maintain Ubuntu changes, but until more packages are available, it cannot be built.
[04:43] <Lutin> persia: eh, ok :)
[04:43] <persia> bddebian: You worked on it for Breezy (or was it Edgy)
[04:43] <bddebian> Ahh, OK :-)
[04:43] <Lutin> good news though, sticking to 2.4 is almost pointless
[04:45] <persia> Lutin: Yep.  I'm trying to migrate everything away during this session.  As of now, I need 2 sponsorships, 1 sync, 2 merges (one is tricky), 1 drop, and 5 patches.  I've finished 1.5 patches, and hope to get the rest this week.
[04:46] <elkbuntu> ivoks_, not on dell.com or ubuntu.com yet
[04:46] <sharms> http://news.com.com/Dell+picks+Ubuntu+for+Linux+PCs/2100-7344_3-6180419.html
[04:46] <Hobbsee> persia: sponsorships?
[04:46] <Lutin> persia: wow, great
[04:47] <ivoks_> elkbuntu: right, not yet... we will see
[04:47] <persia> Hobbsee: bug #111391, bug #111399 (those were the easy ones).
[04:47] <sharms> ivoks_, elkbuntu: yes read my article.
[04:47] <sharms> ivoks_, elkbuntu: Dell spokesman Kent Cook said
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111391 in sooperlooper "Build against wxwidgets2.6" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111391
[04:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111399 in trustedqsl "Please build against wxWidgets 2.6" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111399
[04:48] <Hobbsee> persia: ahh
[04:48] <ivoks_> sharms: :) scroll up :)
[04:48] <elkbuntu> sharms, i read it when it hit /. hence why i said 'yet'
[04:48] <Hobbsee> persia: just become a MOTU, dammit.
[04:48] <sharms> doh
[04:48] <elkbuntu> sharms, plus, it's like the worst kept secret in the history of teh intarweb
[04:49] <crimsun> dude, open sauce Ubuntu.
[04:49] <crimsun> 'nuff said
[04:49] <ogra> heh
[04:49] <persia> Hobbsee: You convinced me last week to follow the process.  It'll take a while (and probably another absence for me) ;)
[04:49] <persia> Hurrah!  Bugmail!
[04:49] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:50] <Hobbsee> persia: is that "hurrah!  more bugs i can fix!"
[04:50] <persia> Hobbsee: No, just happy to get status reports, rather than needing to check to see if anyone commented on anything.
[04:51] <Hobbsee> ahh
[04:52] <crimsun> ah, the days of "just" status reports
[04:52] <crimsun> (oops, do I sound jaded?)
[04:53] <persia> crimsun: Status reports can contain action items, no?
[04:53] <crimsun> persia: sure, but six comments == six "status reports"
[04:54] <crimsun> on high volume bugs, that's a real PitA.
[04:55] <persia> crimsun: True.  I only see about 200 bugs, so the volume is less painful.
[04:55] <crimsun> yeah, I definitely sound jaded.  I'll just shush.  :-)
[04:59] <dharrigan> Ah, I'm stuck. I've created signed packages, I'm uploaded them to the server, I've created a release file and created a release.gpg file, but still I get a badsig error
[05:00] <dharrigan> My dsc and changes file are both signed
[05:07] <persia> crimsun: I've been investigating audacity.  Debian, Fedora, and OpenSUSE all have 1.3.2.  Free reports that he released 1.3.2 in 64 Studio some time ago, and has had very few reports of stability issues.  The upstream bugzilla has a number of issues that are reported "fixed in 1.3.2".  Could you recommend someone within Ubuntu to whom I should speak regarding the use of the "beta" version?
[05:10] <siretart> persia: your rationale sound to me that we should just upload 1.3.2 to gutsy
[05:12] <persia> siretart: crimsun was last uploader, so I want his blessing :)
[05:13] <siretart> persia: sure
 I've an other suggestion: add the date when the page got generated <- done
[05:15] <persia> siretart: Part of it was that upstream still reports 1.2.6 as "stable" and 1.3.2 as "beta", and that gutsy is supposed to be about stabilization, more than about new features.
[05:31] <Hobbsee> siretart: don tdo it.  it'll turn evil :P
[05:32] <siretart> Hobbsee: I see a swiss flag on the bug now. now, is that evil? ;)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> :P
[05:33] <sharms> http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu
[05:34] <persia> ScottK: About pop-before-smtp.
[05:50] <shawarma> Adri2000: I can't grab-merge.sh stunnel (the orig.tar.gz named in the REPORT file is wrong. It's missing dfsg).
[05:50] <shawarma> Adri2000, Lutin: Either of you going to UDS by any chance?
[05:52] <luckyone> masters of the universe, I would like to see KDEnlive in the repos, I think it looks like a quality video editing program. It is currently in debian sid
[05:52] <Lutin> shawarma: no chance, no :/
[05:52] <Lutin> luckyone: I'm working on it
[05:52] <luckyone> Lutin: whooray!
[05:53] <Lutin> :)
[05:53] <luckyone> adios masters of the universe, thanks for hearing my plea!
[05:53] <Lutin> shawarma: thanks for your report concerning stunnel, I'm looking into it :)
[05:54] <Lutin> shawarma: ok, actually it's fixed
[05:54] <shawarma> Lutin: Eh?
[05:54] <shawarma> Lutin: Oh, it'll be fixed on the next update or something?
[05:54] <Lutin> shawarma: I mean, the code is fixed. you'll have to wait for the newt update though :)
[05:54] <Lutin> next*
[05:54] <shawarma> Lutin: Cool. I'll hack around it for now.
[05:54] <shawarma> Lutin: Thanks.
[05:54] <Lutin> shawarma: okay
[05:55] <Lutin> shawarma: thank _you_ :)
[05:55] <shawarma> Lutin, Adri2000: You guys totally rock.
[05:55] <Lutin> :)
[05:57] <Adri2000> :] 
[05:58] <Lutin> shawarma: will you go to UDS ?
[05:59] <Adri2000> shawarma: no, I'm not going to UDS :(
[06:08] <persia> Adri2000: I was working on the merge of thuban, but it was blocked by gdal.  Do you have an attachment to gdal, or may I merge (or sync) so that thuban can be synchronised (or merged, if there is a problem with the new gdal)?
[06:08] <zul_> is there going to be voip again at uds?
[06:09] <Adri2000> persia: do it
[06:09] <persia> Adri2000: Thanks.
[06:20] <ranf> 
[06:24] <bddebian> heh
[06:30] <persia> Adri2000: Just for reference, gdal is a SYNC, pending import of ogdi.
[06:30] <shawarma> Lutin: Yes, I'll be at UDS.
[06:31] <siretart> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring should definitely be in our topic, what do you think?
[06:31] <shawarma> Lutin, Adri2000: I was just asking since it would be a suitable occasion for buying you guys beer for doing this. :-) You'll just have to wait until we meet sometime.
[06:32] <Lutin> shawarma: hehe . I would come, if I could. unfortunately I have classes 
[06:34] <jdong> wow that's long
[06:34] <siretart> indeed
[06:34] <jdong> those two added together filled up my irssi buffer :)
[06:34] <DktrKranz> siretart, say I'm going to fix one of them, should I mail mentor or talk to him on IRC?
[06:36] <siretart> DktrKranz: I'm fairly new to this mentorship idea, but mentors are automatically subscribed to the bugs, so they should receive any bugmail on the corresponding bugs anyway
[06:36] <siretart> DktrKranz: if you need to discuss something, feel free to use either email, irc or whatever you think is best
[06:37] <DktrKranz> I'll do, thanks
[06:39] <persia> Does the Archive-Auto-Import automatically import new packages from Debian, and if so, do they go through an Ubuntu NEW queue?  If so, how can I check the status?
[06:40] <siretart> persia: yes, they do
[06:41] <siretart> persia: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue to check the NEW queue in gutsy
[06:41] <persia> siretart: Thanks.
[06:44] <persia> siretart: If I can't find something there (or in the build queues or the repositories), is a hint required, or should I just wait a while?
[06:45] <siretart> persia: if it isn't there, it is either accepted or not accepted, I think
[06:46] <siretart> persia: did you get a 'ACCEPTED' mail from launchpad?
[06:47] <persia> siretart: I didn't upload it.  I'm curious about the status of the import of ogdi-dfsg from Debian because it blocks a SYNC request for gdal, which blocks a sync request for thuban, for which the Ubuntu version depends on wx2.4.
[06:48] <crimsun> persia: what do you mean?
[06:48] <crimsun> persia: (RE: use)
[06:49] <persia> crimsun: My apologies, but I don't have enough context.
[06:49] <crimsun> 'Could you recommend someone within Ubuntu to whom I should speak regarding the use of the "beta" version?'
[06:51] <persia> crimsun: When last we spoke, you indicated that you were not the primary caretaker for audacity.  I seem to have the highest upload count of Ubuntu versions in the changelog, but don't consider myself the primary caregiver either.  I was hoping you could suggest someone to whom I should make the case for a migration of audacity from 1.2.6 to 1.3.2.
[06:51] <persia> s/spoke/communicated/
[06:51] <crimsun> persia: there's no one to whom you need to make a case; we're not in any sort of freeze
[06:52] <persia> crimsun: OK.  I'll check to see if merge or sync is appropriate, and file the relevant bug.  I thought you had concerns about 1.3.2 due to upstream labelling 1.2.6 as "stable" and 1.3.2 as "beta".
[06:53] <crimsun> persia: yes, that was my approach, but I don't plan to touch audacity this cycle.
[06:54] <siretart> persia: if launchpad doesn't now about the package yet, I'd bet it hasn't been synced yet
[06:54] <persia> Ah.  I should probably find a volunteer to watch the bugs then, prior to requesting a newer version.
[06:54] <persia> siretart: OK.  Thanks.  I'll just wait then.
[06:54] <eolo999> ScottK, or anyone else, can you give a look to bug #110219, i think I shoul tag the bug as 'rejected', what do you think?
[06:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110219 in python-gnuplot "python-gnuplot package not working in feisty fawn" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110219
[06:58] <bddebian> Lutin: What for? :)
[06:59] <sharms> do you always need a reason for a hug?
[06:59] <Lutin> bddebian: for liking DaD better than MoM
[07:00] <bddebian> Ah :-)
[07:00] <crimsun> eolo999: I'd leave it unconfirmed
[07:08] <eolo999> crimsun, thanks
[07:09] <eolo999> any python project that need some developer for small and simple task?
[07:10] <eolo999> my english :s
[07:10] <sharms> eolo999: best thing to do is check out the wiki pages for MOTU
[07:13] <eolo999> sharms, i mean not packaging, but developing, i would like starting to code in a group...
[07:13] <sharms> right, but we need you more
[07:13] <sharms> ;)
[07:15] <eolo999> in the meanwhile i'll check other registered python related bugs in launchpad... some suggestion?
[07:15] <crimsun> eolo999: I'm sure ubiquity, migration-assistant, and apport could use some love
[07:15] <crimsun> eolo999: not to mention bughelper
[07:16] <eolo999> It would be nice to have a way to search bugs with a 'dev-language' keyword...
[07:17] <dholbach> bughelper has some bugs marked as bitesize
[07:28] <persia> bddebian: What now?
[07:29] <bddebian> Just goofy stuff.  I know we are bad about it too but I don't know why it seems like they don't even look at any of our work.
[07:30] <persia> bddebian: They don't have to.  That's why we exist :)
[07:31] <alterlaszlo> ScottK, i'm back
[07:31] <bddebian> Well for example when we upload a newer upstream and now they finally have it but some of our little tweaks aren't there.  Is it work merging or just sync it?
[07:31] <bddebian> s/work/worth/
[07:31] <ScottK> Hi alterlaszlo.
[07:34] <persia> ScottK: Apologies for stealing your bug.  I really thought it was different.
[07:34] <ScottK> Which bug?
[07:34] <persia> ScottK: pop-before-smtp
[07:34] <ScottK> Oh.
[07:35] <ScottK> persia: I was on e-mail and didn't associate your IRC handle and the name.  I had no idea it was you.
[07:36] <persia> ScottK: I guessed :)
[07:36] <ScottK> persia: Did you file the bug in BTS yet?
[07:37] <persia> ScottK: Now that you're on IRC, you aren't checking your mail.  I still have about 60 pending, but I'm getting better about that.
[07:37] <bddebian> Anyone have a PPC or ia64 handy?
[07:38] <ScottK> persia: I got the one about you wanting to skip that step.
[07:42] <h4writer> hi, got a question. If I want to make an installer for my program, where do I need to save the files? So where is the default installation dir for ubuntu? Does that apply to python programs too? Or have they another location?
[07:43] <sharms> h4writer: you need to understand the linux filesystem: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/sparc/
[07:44] <sharms> err
[07:44] <sharms> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
[07:44] <alterlaszlo> h4writer, and you can give a look to python module 'distutils'
[07:44] <jdong> Mez: "This was probably a case of PEBKAC".... probably?
[07:44] <jdong> :)
[07:44] <sharms> pebkac seems to be the new buzzword this week
[07:45] <h4writer> sharms and alterlaszlo will look to it, thanks ;-)
[07:45] <jdong> well it's the right word for "downloading the Dapper disc and thinking it was Feisty" :D
[07:46] <sharms> ugh I gotta minimize irc and get some work done
[07:48] <ScottK> persia: Thanks for the BTS bug.
[07:49] <siretart> hrmpf
[07:49] <persia> ScottK: Like I said, I'm getting better about it (being able to sync torcs was a big motivator).
[07:49] <siretart> anyone feels like requesting jack-audio-connection-kit to be promoted to main?
[07:49] <persia> siretart: I'd be happy to write it up, but why?
[07:50] <siretart> persia: xine can build a jack output plugin, if it finds the jack headers
[07:50] <siretart> it is enabled in debian, with it I could just sync the debian source
[07:51] <persia> siretart: Ah.  The jack plugin for xine was merged with xine trunk?
[07:51] <siretart> persia: it is since 1.1.4 I think. or even earlier
[07:52] <persia> siretart: I thought it was separate, but I don't really follow xine closely.  Should anything go with it (qjackctl, etc.)?
[07:52] <siretart> persia: I just need the library, but I'm sure our audiophilies think different ;)
[07:53] <bmhm> can some1 send me a fixed .deb of "gDesklets" for feisty 64?
[07:53] <bmhm> can't compile it myself somehow... 
[07:53] <siretart> bmhm: what's broken?
[07:53] <persia> siretart: Certainly, but I presume that anyone playing with audio has it installed from universe.  Does it need to run or be useful in self-constrained main?
[07:53] <bmhm> its a known bug siretart 
[07:53] <bmhm> the deamon won't run
[07:53] <siretart> bmhm: what's the bug number?
[07:53] <bmhm> erhm
[07:53] <bmhm> wait a second
[07:54] <bmhm> http://tinyurl.com/3xs5y7
[07:54] <siretart> persia: I'd be perfectly happy if the daemon and stuff would be demoted to universe, I just need libjack0.100.0-dev in main
[07:54] <bmhm> #83922
[07:54] <siretart> and nothing more
[07:54] <siretart> bug #83922
[07:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 83922 in gdesklets "gdesklets does not start feisty herd3 amd64" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83922
[07:55] <persia> siretart: OK.  I'll make a small report.  It should be easier to get in that way.  Thanks for the details.  Note that my queue is currently a few hours long, so it might be late tonight UTC.
[07:57] <siretart> persia: oh. thank you very much! 
[07:57] <siretart> persia: I think I'll upload a xine-lib version without the jack dependency anyway today
[07:57] <persia> siretart: No worries.
[07:57] <siretart> persia: It will FTBFS however, since ffmpeg is not in main yet, though
[07:58] <siretart> but  ffmpeg won't get to main if nothing depends on it. a nice vicious circle
[07:59] <persia> siretart: It's designed to fit in 700MB.  Not much space for more packages at this point :)
[08:01] <siretart> persia: no, ffmpeg must not get on the cd in any case. I just need it as build-dependency
[08:05] <siretart> bmhm: sorry, the bug does not contain a patch, and there doesn't seem to be a fix in debian either
[08:05] <siretart> bmhm: I'd suggest to subscribe to that bug. if you can fix it, please attach your patch there and ask for sponsoring here
[08:06] <bmhm> wait
[08:06] <bmhm> i want to compile it myself siretart 
[08:06] <bmhm> but it says:
[08:07] <bmhm> http://nopaste.info/f323e89594.html
[08:07] <bmhm> meaning: "nothing to do for target "all" "
[08:07] <h4writer> alterlaszlo, you told me about distutils. Now can it be it is only for distributing modules so anyone can use those modules. I'm searching to make an installer for my program. So distutils isn't useful for me...
[08:07] <siretart> bmhm: it seems that the variable $file is not set
[08:08] <siretart> bmhm: seems the build system is screwed up
[08:08] <ScottK> h4writer: distutils provides the Python installer tools.
[08:08] <bmhm> siretart: so what can i do? configure went well...
[08:08] <sharms> I think he wants a point -> click installer
[08:09] <ScottK> h4writer: Are you looking for a gui installer?
[08:10] <h4writer> ScottK, no, just looking to make an installer file for my program. I've started already
[08:10] <ScottK> h4writer: OK.  Then distutils and setup.py is almost certainly what you want.
[08:11] <ScottK> h4writer: Take a look at the pyyaml source package for a clean example.
[08:11] <ScottK> h4writer: If you get a good setup.py, then packaging for Ubuntu with cdbs is trivial to do.
[08:12] <h4writer> ScottK, and can I mention I want runner.py in /bin or so?
[08:12] <h4writer> or do I need to script it afterward
[08:13] <ScottK> h4writer: You can let disutils figure out where to put it or you can tell distutils where to put it, your choice.
[08:13] <h4writer> okey
[08:14] <ScottK> h4writer: pyspf source package shows the debian/rules file putting files where the are wanted.
[08:14] <h4writer> okey, thanks. Will start to read now;-)
[08:15] <ScottK> h4writer: Also, disutils is the Python way to do it.  Best to learn that if you are learning how.
[08:15] <ScottK> err distutils.
[08:15] <h4writer> ScottK, (y)
[08:51] <persia> crimsun: When you have a few minutes, I'd like to review the reasons for some of the audacity 1.2.6 changes.
[08:54] <gpocentek> anyone of the ubuntustudio team around?
[09:00] <LaserJock> gpocentek: you could try #ubuntustudio-devel I think
[09:01] <gpocentek> LaserJock: thanks
[09:04] <Nafallo> where can I find automatix? I need the sourcecode to see what evil things the fucker does!
[09:06] <zenrox> Nafallo: it dont do evil things
[09:07] <zenrox> but look in #automatix tho for questions
[09:07] <Nafallo> zenrox: I know. my ex-gf installed the damn thing. I've fixed sources.list and apt-key now...
[09:08] <ScottK> zenrox: sigkilling dpkg may not be evil, but it's not sound design. (no more comments on this topic for me today).  
[09:08] <Mez> jdong, lol - yeah, probably, as the site might have been updated since I downloaded
[09:14] <ScottK> keescook: Were you still planning on sending out an e-mail on clamav or would you like for me to poke the e-mail list again?
[09:15] <Nafallo> zenrox: thanks for pointing me to the channel. seems I can't get the source of them unless I unpack the damn .deb myself :-P
[09:15] <keescook> ScottK: hey, sorry, I haven't had a chance yet (trying to do some mentoring and cleanup before I leave for UDS)
[09:16] <keescook> go ahead and poke the mailing list again; I'm most interested in figuring out how to test breakage in things like php5-clamavlib
[09:16] <ScottK> keescook: I'll try and write something up then.
[09:50] <ScottK> doko: If you have a minute alterlaszlo would like to join us in the python* teams.  He's got good Python, but is still learning packaging (even more than me).  The Python part of this patch: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7471982/pysol-settings-fix.debdiff is his.  I'll help him out with packaging questions.
[09:51] <persia> siretart: jack-audio-connection-kit build-depends on type-handling and libfreebob0-dev, both of which are still in universe.  libfreebob is fairly new, with only one upload to Debian, and no registered upstream bug tracker.  How much do you want it?
[09:51] <alterlaszlo> ScottK, thanks for good python ;) i'm a rapid learner, but still learning..
[09:54] <siretart> persia: gna, leave it. I'll talk to pitti about it at UDS
[09:54] <siretart> persia: thanks for looking so deep into it
[09:55] <persia> OK.  I'll email you a quick brief of my research in case you want to file later.
[09:55] <siretart> that would be great!
[09:56] <siretart> maybe some other folks from ubuntustudio are interested in working on this? might be good to CC them
[09:58] <persia> siretart: Sorry: saw your message too late :(
[10:05] <siretart> persia: excellent report, thanks a lot. I'm sure it will help me arguing with pitti :)
[10:05] <persia> siretart: The only problem I saw was freebob, which is just very new.
[10:16] <ajmitch> morning
[10:16] <ScottK> Good morning ajmitch
[10:16] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:16] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[10:16] <bddebian> et tu LaserJock
[10:17] <ajmitch> LaserJock!
[10:20] <LaserJock> my flight got canceled :(
[10:21] <bddebian> doh
[10:22] <LaserJock> bddebian: that's what I thought
[10:23] <LaserJock> I had to really run to make the flight in the first place
[10:23] <LaserJock> they were all "You really need to get here earlier"
[10:23] <LaserJock> so I made it
[10:23] <LaserJock> and then the captain's messing around with stuff in the cockpit
[10:24] <LaserJock> and 30 min later he said that the cabin pressurization system wasn't work
[10:24] <LaserJock> +ing
[10:24] <LaserJock> then another 30 min. and they canceled the flight and told us to get off the plane
[10:24] <LaserJock> so I spent ~ 3 years standing in line getting rebooked and new tickets
[10:25] <LaserJock> hehe, s/years/hours/
[10:25] <LaserJock> seemed like years
[10:26] <ajmitch> LaserJock: so what now?
[10:26] <LaserJock> I'm trying again
[10:26] <LaserJock> same flights, just 24hrs later
[10:27] <ajmitch> painful
[10:27] <ajmitch> oh well, that's another 24 hours in our company on irc
[10:27] <LaserJock> but it means I'll miss the first morning of UES
[10:27] <ajmitch> suck :(
[10:28] <siretart> LaserJock: :(
[10:28] <ajmitch> I suppose it's better than everyone on the plane passing out as the plane crosses the atlantic
[10:28] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:29] <ajmitch> brb
[10:45] <eolo999> ScottK, any news?
[10:50] <ScottK> No.  He's probably offline.
[10:50] <ScottK> Many people are focused on getting ready for UDS this week.
[10:51] <ajmitch> plus it was a public holiday in .de
[10:51] <ScottK> Ah.  Did not know that.  Thanks ajmitch.
[10:52] <eolo999> in italy too... it's the working class day...
[10:53] <keescook> hm, where do I get arbitrary debian diff.gz's from?  (I want to do a manual merge of a main package...)
[10:54] <LaserJock> arbitary?
[10:54] <keescook> LaserJock: like, squid 2.6.5-4 so I can see the ubuntu changes made
[10:54] <LaserJock> well, if it's a current Debian version I usually use the link on packages.qa.debian.org
[10:55] <LaserJock> if it's not still in the archive, I think snapshots.debian.org is the archive
[10:55] <keescook> LaserJock: yeah, that's the problem; it's not a version that's in ... aaah! snapshots! cool, I will go check
[10:56] <keescook> hm... does not exist.
[10:57] <keescook> ah! http://snapshot.debian.net/
[10:57] <ajmitch> oh it could be stuck there for awhile
[10:57] <ajmitch> hey keescook :)
[10:58] <keescook> hiya ajmitch!
[11:00] <ajmitch> hopefully 3.0.25 should be out real soon now
[11:00] <ajmitch> morning StevenK 
[11:00] <ajmitch> up early today
[11:00] <StevenK> Yeah, need to be at work in an hour.
[11:01] <ajmitch> nasty
[11:01] <tbender> hi
[11:03] <ScottK> Helle er4z0r
[11:03] <ScottK> Err Hello
[11:03] <er4z0r> ScottK: I would like to make a suggestion about dependencies of a certain package. Is this ok here or do I need to subscribe the list?
[11:04] <ajmitch> amazing, the needs building queue for gutsy i386 is finally empty
[11:04] <pochu> hi all
[11:04] <pochu> slomo: can you sponsor a liferea update?
[11:04] <Lutin> hi pochu 
[11:04] <pochu> slomo: it fixes at least 3 lp crashes
[11:04] <ScottK> er4z0r: We can discuss such things here.  What package?
[11:04] <pochu> hey Lutin
[11:05] <slomo> pochu: url? :)
[11:05] <er4z0r> ScottK: basket - a multi-purpose note-taking application for KDE
[11:05] <pochu> slomo: sure :) http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/
[11:05] <er4z0r> ScottK: it has a dependency on kontact, which is somehow strange to me
[11:05] <pochu> thanks!
[11:06] <slomo> pochu: thanks, i'll take a look later
[11:06] <pochu> slomo: ok, thank you!
[11:06] <er4z0r> why should I need the whole bunch of apps (kmail, kadddressbook etc.) if I only want that basket
[11:06] <ScottK> er4z0r: Kubuntu packages all those together.  For example, if you want kmail you need all that stuff too.
[11:07] <ScottK> er4z0r: For that particular kind of discussion (because it's about how Kubuntu packages KDE that is unique to Kubuntu) #kubuntu-devel would actually be a better channel.
[11:07] <er4z0r> ah ok, thank you
[11:07] <ScottK> er4z0r: Just know going in that it's that way on purpose.
[11:08] <er4z0r> hmm, quite annoying to people who prefer to use other than KDE apps for mail, calendar etc.
[11:09] <ScottK> er4z0r: Sure, but it's a design decision they've made.
[11:09] <pochu> slomo: now they're 4 crashes, instead of 3 :-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/+bug/103724
[11:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103724 in liferea "liferea crash when i clicking an video link (mpg,ogg, etc..)" [Medium,Needs info]  
[11:09] <pochu> slomo: so feel free to update the changelog, if you're going to upload it :)
[11:12] <ScottK> If anyone is interested in wordpress, Bug #111620 may be worth fixing....
[11:12] <slomo> pochu: done ;) looks good, i'll just testbuild it now and then it's up :)
[11:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111620 in wordpress "Remote Exploits: multiple vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111620
[11:13] <ajmitch> yay, more wordpress holes
[11:14] <jmg> suxpress
[11:20] <slomo> pochu: uploaded
[11:20] <DktrKranz> any sponsors around to review some merges?
[11:25] <pochu> slomo: thanks a lot!
[11:29] <sacater> pochu: meep
[11:29] <sacater> :D
[11:32] <pochu> hey sacater!
[11:32] <Lutin> DktrKranz: sure
[11:33] <DktrKranz> Lutin, thanks
[11:33] <DktrKranz> I've got some
[11:34] <Lutin> DktrKranz: ok. what package(s) ?
[11:34] <DktrKranz> bug 111439
[11:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111439 in bbclone "Please merge bbclone 0.4.6-9 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111439
[11:38] <pochu> I'm off to bed, it has been a long day
[11:38] <Lichte> can I get to feisty+1 by changing the word feisty to gutsy in apt sources and then apt-get distupgrade ?
[11:38] <sacater> pochu: g'night
[11:38] <jdong> Lichte: that's what I've heard most developers do to make their pbuilder gutsy
[11:38] <er4z0r> ok, found what I needed
[11:38] <er4z0r> thanks guys
[11:41] <bddebian> Later gang
[12:00] <Lutin> DktrKranz: commited. thanks for your work :)
[12:00] <DktrKranz> thanks to you :)
[12:01] <DktrKranz> I've got some more, if you want
[12:01] <Lutin> DktrKranz: one more, then I'll go to bed :)
[12:02] <DktrKranz> yep :)
[12:02] <DktrKranz> bug 110770
[12:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110770 in amanda "Please merge amanda 1:2.5.1p3-2 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110770
[12:07] <Fujitsu> Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
[12:08] <Fujitsu> Stupid, stupid, stupid mplayer-using person.
[12:08] <ajmitch> hello to you too
[12:08] <Fujitsu> Defending the suggested inclusion of a new upstream checkout in feisty-updates:
[12:08] <Fujitsu> `I don't agree. e.g. Complete new Firefox bugfix-versions (2.0.0.*) are
[12:08] <Fujitsu> released using the Ubuntu update mechanism.'
[12:08] <Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch.
[12:08] <Lutin> DktrKranz: as the maintainer change is a new change, it should be listed in a separate changelog entry, not listed with the remaining changes
[12:09] <Lutin> other than that, ok
[12:09] <DktrKranz> whoops!
[12:09] <DktrKranz> I'm going to fix it