mdkecjwatson: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/advanced-topics/C/index.html12:13
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cjwatsonmdke: neat, thanks12:14
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Kanobtw. when will fuse 2.6.5 hit ubuntu?12:24
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cjwatsonKano: I suspect it would help if it were packaged in Debian; then it would simply be on our merge queue12:29
mdkewhen I click "Nominate for release" on an Ubuntu bug report, the next screen states "There is no release manager for Ubuntu."12:31
mdkeif I thought that were true, I'd be worried :) Can someone add the relevant people to the relevant place?12:31
Kanocjwatson, fuse+ntfs-3g work both together and need to be always the latest versions12:32
cjwatsonKano: I am not saying it is not necessary; I am saying what the most effective approach would be12:32
cjwatson(we don't have a dedicated maintainer for fuse in Ubuntu)12:33
Kanowell i need it, and if you dont package it,then i do12:34
mdkethat's the spirit12:34
cjwatsonthat's fine, you can contribute it in the usual way12:34
Kanomy way is to put it on my website ;)12:35
cjwatsonor you can duplicate work if you like, sure12:35
Kanobecause then i dont have to discuss if it is needed or not12:35
cjwatsonyou do not have to do so anyway12:35
mdkeKano: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for contributing new packages that you work on12:35
cjwatsonbut if you are on #ubuntu-devel, it is expected that you discuss Ubuntu development12:36
Kanocjwatson, of course i fixed already some packages which are in motu12:36
Kanosome dash problems12:36
cjwatsonmuch appreciated. I don't know why you're suddenly being hostile about this one, then12:37
Kanothe problem with fuse is that it is in main12:37
cjwatsonthat is why the ubuntu-main-sponsors team exists12:37
Kanoand nobody wanted to update it for feisty12:37
Kanoso even if i build something upon feisty i need this extra12:38
cjwatsonthere is no bug report explaining the problems12:38
TerminXI know this channel isn't supposed to be support per se, but I have an interesting issue in Firefox you guys might want to know about12:38
TerminXit crashes whenever I type "So," into any forum reply box12:39
TerminX(in gutsy)12:39
cjwatsonTerminX: turn off spellchecking12:39
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MindUsFree phone calls all around the world ----->  http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/12:39
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mdkeit's a conspiracy to stop people starting sentences with "So,"12:39
Kanocjwatson, i told this channel about 2 or 3 mouth ago12:39
cjwatsonTerminX: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/11156812:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 111568 in firefox "Gutsy Firefox crashes with spell checking enabled (dup-of: 107340)" [High,In progress]  12:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107340 in firefox "[GUTSY]  MASTER firefox crashed in spellchecker with undefined symbol: _ZN8Hunspell5spellEPKc [@ mozSpellChecker::GetCurrentDictionary]  [@ mozSpellI18NManagerConstructor] " [High,In progress]  12:39
Kanowhat the problem is12:39
cjwatsonKano: IRC is a lossy medium, and you cannot expect any kind of tracking whatsoever of problems reported only on IRC12:39
Kanowell i track error messages 12:40
TerminXha, I just saw the libmyspell.so symbol lookup error in my terminal after you linked that12:40
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Kanoperferred thru irc,because i can tell ppl to fix it in a way or another12:40
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cjwatsonKano: with all due respect, that may be how you work but it is not how everyone works12:41
MindUsFree phone calls all around the world ----->  http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/12:41
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cjwatsonKano: nor is it how we ask people to work with us12:42
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Kanoare you here Mithrandir ?12:56
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azgtemcjwatson: not even the 386 net boot cd that you suggested works on my k6-2 computer :((01:17
cjwatsonazgtem: then I doubt the issue is what processor it was compiled for - you'll need to file a bug01:17
cjwatsonI suppose it could be that gfxboot breaks somehow on k6-2 - try booting in expert mode from the alternate install CD (to avoid 'quiet' on the kernel command line) and see if there are any kernel log messages at all?01:19
cjwatsonif not, it could be the bootloader breaking01:19
azgtemcjwatson: anyway, i tested it with knoppix 5.1 -- it does the same, so it is a debian problem. BUT, i tested it with knoppix 4.0 and it works! so the bug is some debian regression between the release dates of knoppix 4 and knoppix 5... if this has any relevance01:19
cjwatsontry also holding down shift at boot time to suppress the fancy boot menu01:20
cjwatsonnote that neither our fancy boot menu nor our kernel is common with Debian; at that point, the only thing definitely common with Debian is syslinux01:20
azgtemcjwatson: oh, didn't know about the shift trick01:20
azgtemcjwatson: anyway, knoppix does have some similar boot menu, so it seems i need to test debian itself, after all, before i conclude it's a debian problem01:22
azgtemcjwatson: ok then, is there any net boot cd equivalent of the one you gave me that i could use to install ubuntu?01:23
cjwatsonazgtem: given that I have no idea what the problem is, I cannot answer that question01:23
cjwatsonwe do not have a magic CD that fixes all unknown bugs, if that's what you mean ;-)01:24
azgtemcjwatson: no, i was only asking about a debian one01:24
cjwatsonoh, right01:24
cjwatsonazgtem: http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/debian-installer/01:24
azgtemi want to give debian a try and then to somehow install ubuntu01:24
azgtemcjwatson: cool, thanks a lot01:25
cjwatsonholding down shift should bypass most of the bootloader code that differs between Debian and Ubuntu01:25
cjwatsonso that is still worth a try too01:25
cjwatsonif that fixes it, please file a bug on gfxboot01:25
jdongcjwatson: wait, what does shift do?01:25
cjwatsonjdong: skips gfxboot01:25
jdongdisable gfxboot?01:25
jdongthat would've helped me a lot with kvm!01:25
cjwatsonjdong: see /usr/share/doc/syslinux/README.gfxboot01:26
cjwatsonactually that says that it lets you interactively disable certain bits, which is a lie, but that's not important01:26
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jdongthen I'll kvm a bit again01:26
jdongconfirmed, it works01:27
jdongyay, kvm boots now01:27
azgtemjdong: you don't even see the ubuntu logo??01:27
jdongalthough WOW are kvm graphics impressingly slow01:27
jdongazgtem: before I saw a nice kvm stackdump01:28
jdongbecase intel-vt doesn't do the realmode calls for gfxboot's screen01:28
azgtemjdong: oh, i thought you were testing that on a normal computer boot01:28
jdongnope; kvm01:28
azgtemcjwatson: even when i keep shift pressed, i still see the nice orange ubuntu logo01:29
azgtemor pink01:29
jdongthat's the old syslinux style logo01:29
cjwatsonwhat jdong said01:29
jdongnot the gfxboot one that puts the video in weird modes :D01:29
azgtemoh, right01:29
azgtemcjwatson, jdong: but shouldn't fb=off (or something like that) solve this problem anyway?01:30
azgtemsomething like that = i am not sure about the syntax01:30
cjwatsonazgtem: that's much later01:31
jdongColin is the expert past this point. I have no experience with d-i internals01:31
cjwatsonfb=false translates to debian-installer/framebuffer=false which tells the installer not to use a framebuffer; this does not help if the kernel isn't coming up01:31
cjwatsonand it's unrelated to gfxboot01:31
`23megcjwatson, would it be possible/feasible to create a barebones X environment to let Ubiquity run on systems with low memory?01:33
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cjwatson`23meg: it's been discussed, but I haven't had time to actually do it01:36
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`23megso it looks doable; good to know01:37
azgtemcjwatson: it seems shift doesn't help on my box, so could you please tell me what level the error is, so that i may search for deeper answers myself? i also mention, if of any help at all, that most of the times i can see some ten quickly disappearing "progress bar" dots before the computer reboots, but at least once i saw more than thirty... if you find my description funny then you just know how desperate i am :)01:38
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cjwatsonazgtem: I think you need help from a kernel developer at this point, TBH01:39
azgtemcjwatson: good to know01:40
azgtemcjwatson: thank you again01:40
cjwatsonsorry I can't help more01:40
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jdonga friend sent me his travel itinerary to Hawaii complete with 3 PDF's of boarding passes, while he sent his family a build log.....01:43
azgtemcjwatson: the fact that i know where to look further already means enough help to me, to be honest, i didn't even know the kernel could be responsible for this01:43
jdongazgtem: unexpected reboots typically are the kernel's fault at some point :)01:44
jdongit's also a convenient way of saying "not my fault" :D01:44
azgtemcjwatson: and one last question: from your experience, the level you think this problem is -- is it the same level boot options like "noapic" etc. apply? i mean, is it still possible, in principle, that some magical boot option solve the problem?01:46
mjg59Well, it's either syslinux or the kernel01:46
mjg59If it's the kernel, it's happening in early setup code where any failure is quite likely to result in the machine rebooting01:46
mjg59Diagnosing is likely to be immensely painful01:47
mjg59Does the current Fedora test release have the same problem?01:47
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azgtemcjwatson: oh, btw, i forgot to mention: after i installed ubuntu on it (by using another machine and copying the contents of the hdd), it could boot into ubuntu, so it is only a cd live/alternate problem02:13
cjwatsonazgtem: that does tend to suggest syslinux02:15
cjwatsondoesn't make it a whole lot easier, mind02:15
azgtemcjwatson: is it possible to use grub on /dev/hda and force it to boot the cdrom? or what methods do multidistro cds use?02:18
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jdongazgtem: only if grub was compiled with cdrom support or patches or whatnot02:36
jdongwhich default Ubuntu GRUB is not02:36
azgtemjdong: but in that case it does??02:38
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jdongazgtem: the bootable CD's that use GRUB do support CD's. Ubuntu does not use GRUB to boot its CD's.02:58
azgtemjdong: btw, *why* doesn't ubuntu use grub?02:58
mjg59Traditionally, it's been more fragile than iso/syslinux02:59
jdongazgtem: apparently more prone to failure02:59
jdongheh mjg59  beat me02:59
mjg59Also less scriptable, as far as I can remember02:59
azgtemjdong, mjg59: oh, right, i experienced that myself. actually even lilo is much more reliable, imo03:00
jdongbut lilo is too static :D03:00
jdongit apparently has some other limitations too....03:00
azgtemi hate it that grub has so many wonderful features and yet is less dependable03:00
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azgtemespecially considering that reliability is very important for a boot loader03:01
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ajmitchmorning fabbione 06:31
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Nafallomorning fabbione :-)06:32
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fabbioneYAY for standalone nss and nspr!08:33
Nafallooh. nice! :-)08:33
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ubijtsaponingru: *lol*08:34
Burgundaviafabbione: hmm?08:35
dholbachgood morning08:35
ubijtsamoin alles08:35
fabbioneBurgundavia: libnss and libnspr were in FF sources but they are used by different packages08:36
fabbioneBurgundavia: with the split, i don't need to ship FF sources on server-source.iso08:39
Burgundaviaah, right08:40
Burgundavianspr is required for fds as well08:40
Burgundaviafedora directory servcer08:41
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fabbioneBurgundavia: it's much easier than that... RHEL is moving away from openssl for all its packages08:43
fabbioneBurgundavia: and they either switch to nss/nspr for strong encryption or to gnutls for weak08:43
ubijtsafabbione: where have you heard this?08:43
fabbioneubijtsa: just talking with some of our developers08:44
ubijtsafabbione: 'our' as in Ubuntu or.. ?08:44
fabbionei am still drinking my first cup of coffee08:45
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=== ubijtsa will have to make some internal inquiries..
ubijtsafabbione: thank's for the heads up, first I have heard of it..08:45
fabbioneubijtsa: it's not really a secret.. openssl was not certified by the US gov authorities till a few weeks ago08:46
fabbioneand to sell support to US Gov you need to have conformant ssl/crypto libs/apps08:46
Nafallofabbione: does that mean firefox-dev build-dep that was libxul-dev in debian should be something else now? :-)08:46
ubijtsafabbione: yes, but it would be nice if the support organisation was aware of such a change. ;-)08:46
ubijtsas/was aware/was made aware/08:47
fabbioneubijtsa: well i was only told that.. i have no clue how that's communicated internally to RH....08:47
ubijtsafabbione: that's what I'll find out today08:47
fabbioneubijtsa: neither i can be 100% certain how official is that08:47
ubijtsafabbione: if it's going in to Fedora, it'll make its way into RHEL pretty much.08:48
fabbioneubijtsa: as i said, i was told this.. not how the process is taking place08:49
fabbioneubijtsa: might as well be a RH fork of packages only that doesn't influence Fedora08:49
fabbionei really don't know more than what i told you already08:49
ubijtsafabbione: that is less likely08:49
ubijtsafabbione: thank you for letting me know though :)08:50
dholbachcan we sync from Debian NEW?08:53
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cjwatsondholbach: in theory it could probably be arranged, but it would require me to abuse privileges and is not a good idea anyway08:54
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dholbachcjwatson: ok, I'm just being impatient :)08:55
dholbachnevermind :-)08:55
pittiGood morning09:00
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ajmitchit's back & better than ever?09:18
tepsipakkiumm, no :)09:18
ajmitchtepsipakki: well up-to-date is better than ever :)09:18
ajmitchI see that the main pages listing merges aren't updated yet09:19
tepsipakkicorrect :)09:19
tepsipakkibut something is happening09:19
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stittelWhere is development of Ubuntu taking place? I mean the packages commited to the apt-repositories seem to be more or less finished and ready to use, but there must be some place where things are commited and discussed before the package is finished?09:30
stittelMost probably this happens in a revision control system like CVS or Subversion. If so, what is it's address?09:30
mdkestittel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good overview of the processes09:31
stittelI am thinking about getting involved as a package maintainer at same point but I'd really like to have a closer look at the development process.09:31
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pittiRiddell: any reason why kdebase still depends on pmount?09:39
pittiRiddell: (and kubuntu-desktop)09:39
stittelDoesn't KDE use pmount/pumount for mounting removable media like USB sticks?09:40
stittelJust a thought, I am not a developer. :)09:41
pittistittel: I thought it would have switched to using hal long ago09:44
pittistittel: in fact, it used hal even earlier than Ubuntu's Gnome AFAIR09:44
pittiand we just made hal use pmount as a backend in dapper09:44
stittelWhat happens if you move the pmount binary and attach an USB stick?09:45
stittelThis should give us some clearity.09:45
pittistittel: well, that's why I asked Jonathan, I don't have a KDE here ATM09:47
stittelWait a sec.09:47
pittiI would just really like to move it to universe, since I don't have  much motivation to develop it any more09:47
stittelDo you want me to move pmount-hal, too?09:49
pittistittel: oh, just try sudo dpkg -P --force-depends pmount09:49
pittistittel: pmount-hal will just fail without pmount, so it doesn't matter much09:49
cjwatsonstittel: I've added a practical note on revision control to UbuntuDevelopment09:50
cjwatson(under "Revision control (Bazaar)")09:50
stittelcjwatson: Thanks.09:50
stittelpitti: USB sticks works fine with KDE without pmount installed. Everything like usual.09:51
pittistittel: right, that's what I guessed; just a forgotten dependency09:51
pittistittel: thanks for testing!09:51
stittelBTW: Why is "Storage Media" in the KDE System Menu pointing to "/media" and not to the "media:/" KIO slave?09:52
stittel"/media" is rather useless for examle to remount and unmounted USB stick.09:53
ssamis there much chance of Bug #109204 being fixed in feisty? it makes gnumeric mostly unusable on powerpc. the patch is tiny, has been commit up stream, and there are a few positive test reports.09:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 109204 in goffice "Gnumeric strange colors (purple charts) on bigendian" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10920409:54
shawarma /win 210:06
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asacMithrandir: can you please give back nss?10:18
Mithrandirasac: it's depwait10:19
asacon what?10:20
Mithrandirso it'll be done once libnspr4-dev10:20
Mithrandirwhich is probably in NEW10:20
asaclibnspr4-dev should b e there10:20
Mithrandirs/so it'll be done once//10:20
Mithrandironce that hits the archive, it'll be retried automatically10:20
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asacMithrandir: i see libnspr4-dev in gutsy /pool10:22
asac... and can install it ;)10:22
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asacah ... it ended up in universe10:22
asaccjwatson: didn't you direct nss/nspr to main?10:24
cjwatsonasac: I only processed the source package; somebody else must have done the binaries10:26
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Lurestittel: this was done as part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDEMedia10:27
cjwatsonasac: and I did set the source package components to main10:27
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Lurestittel: if you are missing some feature, ping Riddell or Sime in #kubuntu-devel10:27
Mithrandirsomebody probably just blatted it through and didn't pay enough attention.  Easy enough to fix.10:27
cjwatsonasac: anyhow, I've moved the nspr binaries to main, which should fix the dep-wait problem after the next publisher run10:28
cjwatsonthey'll have dep-waited due to the ogre model (the archive has layers; main can't build-dep on universe)10:28
asaccjwatson: yes that makes sense10:28
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ajmitchcjwatson: I presume we have the same stance as debian on gpl & openssl?11:02
cjwatsonajmitch: yes11:02
Mithrandirthat's hardly a stance, it's just how the licence is.11:03
ajmitchok, thanks11:03
ajmitchthe lack of a decent gnutls patch for openldap 2.3 stops mit kerberos having an ldap kdb backend11:05
ajmitchfrom what I found, the ssl linking issue was the main reason for not having libldap2-dev built from openldap2.311:06
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Riddellpitti: I don't think it does need to depend on pmount any more, I'll check to confirm11:14
pittiRiddell: stittel already confirmed11:15
pittiRiddell: that would be nice; the same dependency is in Debian as well, btw11:16
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seb128bryce: when you file a sync request please describe the ubuntu changes and why they can be dropped12:19
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gnomefreakpitti: are you around for a quick question?12:31
pittignomefreak: please don't ask to ask, just ask12:31
gnomefreakpitti: in /etc/default/apport i have enable=1 but i never get the crash dialog12:31
gnomefreakis that a bug or just not fully worked out yet?12:32
pittignomefreak: it controls a different thing12:32
pittigconftool-2 -s --type boolean /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes true12:33
gnomefreakok ty12:33
pittiI think for gutsy I'll enable it soon again12:34
pittionce the initial merge rush is done12:34
gnomefreakcool :)12:34
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pittiRiddell: do you think that we need to discuss http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/kubuntu-restricted-manager.html?12:39
pittiRiddell: AFAICS there's little to discuss, it's a SMOP12:39
Riddellpitti: SMOP?12:40
pittisimple matter of programming12:40
Mithrandirsimple matter of programming12:40
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Mithrandiroh, so much for paying attention. :-P12:40
pittiRiddell: the backend is already UI agnostic, we just need to pull out the Ui independent stuff from the current frontend and cobble a KDE frontend12:41
pittiRiddell: I see little value of wasting a pre-scheduled BoF on it TBH12:41
Riddellpitti: I seem to remember a while ago you talking about having to make it frontend independent12:42
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Riddellpitti: but if that's not an issue then it doesn't need a full session12:42
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pittiRiddell: well, of course there need to be some GTK/Qt specific bits, such as .glade vs. .ui and so on12:43
pittiRiddell: but the workflow can be in an abstract base class12:43
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pittisimilar to apport-{qt,gtk}12:43
Riddellpitti: so we probably don't need that session, but I'd still like to flesh out the spec and have it checked by you12:46
pittiright, of course12:46
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stittelLure: Thanks, I will do that.01:02
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cjwatson677 packages in NEW, 677 packages; take one down, process it, 725 packages in NEW01:14
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ajmitchcjwatson: long day then? :)01:15
Nafallocjwatson: ouch01:15
asaccjwatson: ok, can you move nss binaries to main as well now?01:17
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tepsipakkiasac: I tried to change the default homepage by editing /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js, but it only shows a blank page no matter what (this on Feisty). Ideas?01:23
tepsipakkisame on dapper, too01:23
asacyou have to change alternative01:23
asacnot pref01:23
cjwatsonasac: done for next publisher run01:24
asactepsipakki: /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage01:24
asaccjwatson: thanks01:24
tepsipakkiasac: but the same holds for other settings01:24
asace.g. do you see the settings changed in about:config ?01:24
tepsipakkithat I'd like to override.. as it's said in the firefox.js, that file (or files in that directory) can be used to override settings in /usr/share/firefox/defaults/pref01:25
tepsipakkihm, I'll try other settings first :P01:26
asacyes please do01:26
Mithrandirseb128: slab (the source package) is called gnome-main-menu in Debian; ok to sync with override or do you want to upload a merge?01:28
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seb128Mithrandir: I'll upload a merge, there is some changes to do like making it use gnome-app-install01:40
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Mithrandirseb128: ok, thanks.01:41
seb128no problem01:42
tepsipakkiasac: nope, no setting is overridden by /e/f/p/firefox.js01:42
tepsipakkioh wait01:43
tepsipakkimaybe the parser is buggy01:43
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tepsipakkiyep, if there is an error somewhere, it fails to apply the rest01:51
asacso does it work or not?01:55
tepsipakkiit works, if the config has no errors ;)01:55
asachopefully the default config has no errors, does it?01:55
tepsipakkino, that seems to be fine, but our site-wide settings were busted01:56
tepsipakkiused to work with mozilla, no-one had touched it for three years...01:56
tepsipakkiyay for maintenance01:57
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asacoh ... so mozilla was more robust about syntax errors? or what kind of errors did you have in your config?02:00
tepsipakkiall kinds of.. I need to double check that02:01
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siretartcjwatson: is there any Forum or Workshop about some 'unattended-install infrastructure'? Mark mentioned it on ubuntu-devel-announce, but I cannot find it on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/track-installer.html02:02
siretartor does the 'automated installation' workshop cover that?02:03
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TheMusoIf someone gave back ardour, it still FTBFS on the same weird issue. Only i386 built so far, but same problem.02:55
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Tonio_sorry for this :)02:56
Tonio_is there a common/known way to "divert" a debconf generated file, so that not any other package can overwrite it ?02:57
TreenaksPackages should not overwrite manually edited files without asking.. even IF they use debconf, afaik02:58
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Tonio_Treenaks: yes but in automatic deploiement environment03:00
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Tonio_Treenaks: I cannot take the risk to always answer "yes" or "no"03:01
Tonio_Treenaks: that's why I'm searching for a dpkg-divert equivalent03:01
TreenaksAlways answering 'no' means changed config files will remain in their changed state03:01
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Tonio_well that doesn't exactly feet my needs btw, but if that's the only solution.... :)03:03
MithrandirTonio_: chattr +i on the file?03:09
Tonio_Mithrandir: ouch ;)03:10
Tonio_Mithrandir: well that'll work ;)03:10
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Tonio_Mithrandir: well waiting for debconf to handle that (sounds like in project) that's not a bad option, thanks :)03:11
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TheMusohmm. Ok pbuilder + uploaded ardour package still don't choak.03:12
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MithrandirTonio_: except debconf doesn't do anything about configuration files, so it's the wrong place to apply any kind of fix.03:14
Tonio_Mithrandir: I know, well I don't know what'll be fixed, but I read on the debian wiki there was kind of a project to make it possible to divert debconf generated files03:16
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Tonio_I don't know much more on that point, except I would love it was already implemented since I need this :)03:16
ivoksTonio_: ;) hi03:17
Tonio_hey ivoks :)03:17
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jsgotangcohey jono03:29
ajmitchhello jono, jsgotangco 03:29
jsgotangcohey ajmitch03:29
jsgotangcoajmitch: err are you somewhere that is not around the southern hemisphere?03:30
ajmitchjsgotangco: I am still deep in the south03:30
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bhalehi jsgotangco, ajmitch 03:34
jsgotangcohey bhale hows it going there03:34
bhalegood thanks03:35
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ajmitchhi bhale 03:39
ajmitchjsgotangco: don't worry, I'll leave soon03:39
jsgotangcoyeah its a very long swim for sure03:39
ajmitchhopefully I won't have to swim03:39
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ajmitchtime for me to sleep anyway03:40
siretartajmitch: have a good flight!03:41
Mithrandirthe merge-o-matic should be back in business now.03:43
MithrandirI'll send an announcement to u-d-a soonish03:44
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StevenKMithrandir: How often will MoM update?03:49
MithrandirStevenK: I need to confirm with Scott that everything is fine, but once he's ok with it, I'll have it run as often as it used to (which I believe is every two hours or so)03:50
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jdongseb128: WRT backports bug 76382, the version verified is 0.15-0ubuntu2, but it also needs that trivial debdiff I posted. The lowered python b-d has been verified with bzr developers.04:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 76382 in edgy-backports "Backport bzr 0.13-0ubuntu1 from Feisty to Edgy" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7638204:01
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jdongseb128: in addition, please backport bug 111630 for Dapper and Edgy too, thanks!04:05
ubotuLaunchpad bug 111630 in edgy-backports "backport KTorrent 2.1.4" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11163004:05
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seb128jdong: I don't know how to source change a backport04:15
jdongseb128: I was told it's done like a normal dput upload by a core-dev and ends up in backports source NEW04:15
seb128so a normal upload with edgy-backports target?04:16
seb128Mithrandir: ^04:16
pittiseb128: that'll work, but we want to avoid it at all costs04:18
jdongin this case it's a trivial build-dep change that doesn't have any negative impacts, IMO04:18
pittijdong: can't we do it as alternative build dep in gutsy and backport then?04:18
jdongpitti: that would also work, but I was told before not to request development uploads to fix backports problems.....04:19
jdongI don't mind which way it's done :)04:19
jdonggutsy has 0.16~rc2 though....04:19
pittijdong: if we have to do an upload anyway, it seems easier to me to do it once for gutsy and then keep backportability instead of repeatedly doing it for backports04:21
jdongpitti: ok, that's a good plan for future packages, but in this case gutsy has already progressed to a development release of bzr... :(04:22
pittijdong: ah, I see04:22
pittiin this case it's justified, I guess04:22
jdongpitti: so do alternate build-deps always work?04:23
seb128jdong: are you sure you want the gusty ktorrent backported to dapper? ;)04:23
seb128that seems to be quite some change04:23
pittijdong: as long as the first one doesn't exist (as opposed to doing the wrong thing), yes04:23
jdongseb128: yep, I have tested it, and it works fine. the Dapper backports users welcome the new feature additions04:24
seb128I don't like doing changes to dapper but it's your call ;)04:24
jdongseb128: hehe fortunately only I have to deal with supporting -backports :D04:25
seb128ktorrent backports done04:25
jdongpitti: would it be feasible that when developers upload a tightened build-dep to also leave in an alternate, for non-EOL Ubuntu releases?04:26
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jdongthanks seb128!04:26
pittijdong: certainly feasible, but most often we forget about it04:26
jdongpitti: yeah, that's understandable. It's hard for me to figure out when a b-d is serious, and when it's just to force a build against a newer library for a gutsy-specific reason...04:28
jdonga lot of the times the changelog is helpful04:28
jdongbut other times it's not :D04:28
pittijdong: it eases transitions04:28
pittijdong: you can upload all bits of a transition at once, and the buildds will DRTR with 'depwait'04:28
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jdongbut a lot of times those tightened build-dep are only meaningful for the development release during that transition period04:29
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jdongit's just I can't help but think there must be a more sensible way of doing than me requesting transitioning b-d's to be removed or alts be added in; there must be a better way of doing it that doesn't inconvenience everyone involved...04:30
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wwoodspitti: ping - got some apport questions and some code you might be interested in04:34
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asacsomeone has a minute to NEW thunderbird 2.0? pitti?04:35
pittiwwoods: pong04:37
pittiasac: oh, why source new? just a source package rename from m-t?04:38
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wwoodspitti: when you've got a few minutes, I've got an rpm implementation and some code to read PID/signal out of elfcore files04:39
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cjwatsonsiretart: ubiquity-automation covers that04:39
wwoodsthe latter, of course, will require some patches to apport, so I'm wondering how you want those made (bzr repo magic? patches against tarball?)04:40
pittiwwoods: oh, cool; did you develop against recent bzr head? I recently had to extend the packaging interface a bit04:40
wwoodspitti: I didn't, actually. I was just checking that out04:40
pittiwwoods: bzr branch would be best of course, for mutual merging04:40
wwoodsI'll do that and come back with some patches against bzr head then04:40
pittiwwoods: great!04:41
asacpitti: sorry got a phone call ... its transition of source package as well as bin package names (e.g. with transitional packages)04:41
pittiwwoods: I'll be off for a bit and then be back online, in an hour or so04:41
pittiasac: alright, so this will need binary-NEW again after it built; source accepted04:42
asacfurther i dropped dom-inspector which is constantly broken :)04:42
wwoodspitti: cool, I've got a Fedora QA meeting in a bit so I'll be back around later today04:43
pittiwwoods: TTYL then, looking forward to it :)04:43
asacpitti: can i upload locale packages now as well ... or will this cause mor bugging around - so better wait till tbird is up?04:43
pittiasac: I guess it doesn't matter much in which direction they break :)04:44
pittiasac: (old locales with new tbird or new locales with old tbird)04:44
pittiand it's transient anyway04:44
asachehe ... i mean not for the user, but for the archive administration :)04:45
asacbut nevermind :)04:45
pittiasac: doesn't matter much AFAICS04:45
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asacpitti: in 15 minutes :)04:46
pittiasac: in 15 mins is what?04:46
asacdistro meeting?04:47
asacor has it been cancelled?04:47
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asacpitti: ^^04:47
pittiasac: noone announced it yet, and we'll see each other on Sunday anyway04:47
asacyeah ;)04:47
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fabbionedistro team meeting is NOW05:03
iwjAre you sure ?05:04
iwjThu May  3 15:04:50 UTC 200705:04
seb128iwj: and meeting is a 15utc05:06
fabbioneiwj: yes05:06
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wwoodsstupid question: are .deb files GPG signed?05:44
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shawarmawwoods: Not individually, no.05:45
wwoodsreally? huh05:46
shawarmawwoods: our source packages are signed, and so is the Release file which provides basic authentication of the source of the packages.05:46
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shawarmawwoods: So you trust the repository rather than each package.05:46
cjwatsonthere's an unbroken chain of signatures of hashes that you can use to verify the authenticity of each .deb05:47
cjwatson(to put what shawarma said another way)05:47
cbx33hey guys in feisty, anyone know who deals with libnotify?05:47
cbx33or anyone know about the set_icon_from_pixbuf?05:47
cbx33"This will only work when libnotify is compiled against D-BUS 0.60 or higher."05:47
cbx33i thought we were hight dbus than that now?05:48
cbx33hight = higher05:48
cbx33however it still refuses to set the icon from the pixbuf05:48
wwoodsshawarma: okay, hm. so the Release file is part of the repo, and it's got package hashes?05:49
wwoods(please forgive my amazingly poor grasp of apt repos. heh)05:50
mvocbx33: look at the update-notifier source code, it works there05:50
shawarmawwoods: It's got hashes of the Packages files.05:50
shawarmawwoods: which in turn has hashes of the individual packages.05:51
cbx33mvo hmmm05:51
cbx33that's what I thought05:51
cbx33that's written in python isn't it?05:51
wwoodsshawarma: ah, okay. I think I get it.05:51
mvocbx33: oh, you talk about the python-bindings, no u-n is written in C (for memory effiecency reasons)05:51
wwoodsso there's nothing intrinsic about an installed package that tells you whether or not that package came from an 'official' repo.05:52
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shawarmawwoods: In short: If you get packages from the repository (and trust gnupg and the ubuntu folks) you can trust the packages.05:52
shawarmawwoods: If you get them individually from elsewhere, you shouldn't trust them.05:52
cbx33so it could be the python binding don't work yet?05:52
cbx33that's a kick in the pants05:52
shawarmawwoods: Oh, sure there is.05:52
wwoods(where "official" means "from a trusted repo", I suppose)05:52
shawarmawwoods: Gimme a sec.05:52
mvocbx33: it could be that the python binding do have a bug, yes. aren't there tests in the python bindings package for this?05:53
cbx33not sure05:53
cbx33but it looks like a bug cos the c code does exactly what I would do05:53
cbx33I'll file a bug later05:53
wwoodsbasically I'm trying to figure out why apport just checks to see if the string 'Ubuntu' is in the origins05:53
cbx33thanks mvo05:53
wwoodsinstead of checking, like, keys or hashes or something05:53
pittiwwoods: oh, does it?05:54
pittiwwoods: it should check lsb_release05:55
wwoodspitti: yeah, it does05:55
pittiso it does, jsut checked05:55
wwoodsbut still, that's just a string match against a package tag - anyone could lie and say their package is from the 'Fedora' distribution05:55
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pittiwwoods: in Ubuntu that Origin: tag is taken from python-apt which in turn takes it from the Release files on the archive05:56
pittiwwoods: so it's reasonably reliable05:56
pittiwwoods: also, it's not meant to be foolproof05:56
pittiwwoods: the use case was that we ship some stuff in dapper-commercial, for example opera05:56
pittiwwoods: and when that crashed, users got a 404 since opera is not a product in LP05:56
pittisince it's not an actual Ubuntu package05:56
wwoodspitti: gotcha. Yeah, we generally use the GPG signatures to determine whether a package is genuine or not05:57
wwoodssince our packages will be signed with one of our keys05:57
pittiwwoods: I'm fine with making that interface more abstract05:57
pittiwwoods: get_origins(self, package) -> is_distro_package(self, package)05:58
wwoodsyeah, that'd work nicely.. dunno if you use get_origins elsewhere though05:58
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pittiwwoods: no, I don't05:58
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pittiwwoods: I just added that function a few days ago to clean up after some quick hacks I had to do for the feisty release05:59
cprovpitti: do you know how to define a fqdn with PORT in dput config ?05:59
wwoodsis_distro_package would probably be a good way to abstract that05:59
pitticprov: hm, no; just appending ':port' to the host doesn't work?05:59
cprovpitti: as in "foobar:2121" ? no, it doesn't work.06:00
pittiwwoods: added to TODO06:01
pittiwwoods: can we talk in ~ 1 hour? I need to grab some food06:01
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wwoodspitti: sure06:04
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thekorncbx33: set_icon_from_pixbuf is working for me in feisty06:09
cbx33thekorn, in python?06:10
cbx33if so, got some example code?06:11
thekorncbx33: yes, wait a second06:12
cbx33thanky ou06:12
thekorncbx33: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18974/06:13
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thekorncbx33: you don't need that win = ...06:14
cbx33thekorn you rock06:14
cbx33my problem was in the docs, it looks like the icon parameter for the initialisation was required06:15
cbx33i thought i could overwrite it later with set icon from file06:15
cbx33thanks so much06:15
cbx33VCSFrenzy gets custom icons ;)06:15
thekorncbx33: VCSFrenzy rocks!06:16
popeyyou cbx33 06:17
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cbx33thekorn, it rocks even more now ;)06:18
cbx33hi popey 06:18
cbx33hang on lemme pm you06:18
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cbx33whoops kill my x server06:35
kwahHow one can change mount options for automounted devices like flash-cards?06:35
jdongkwah: /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ IIRC06:36
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pittiwwoods: I'm back for a bit06:52
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pittiwwoods: I committed that change and pushed, should be on LP in a few minutes07:16
wwoodspitti: awesome! thanks. I just finished up that meeting and I need to grab some lunch but I'll be back in a bit07:17
pittiwwoods: hm, I need to leave now, sorry07:17
pittiwwoods: can you mail me about remaining questions and issues?07:17
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wwoodspitti: will do07:21
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Treenaksiwj: hmm.. good idea08:59
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xxxxx1hi all.09:18
xxxxx1i've built a custom kernel09:18
xxxxx1can i replace linux-libc-dev ?09:18
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ajmitchmorning all10:14
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mjunxhey guys, I've got a suggestion/question10:28
mjunxwould it be feasible if all the packages in ubuntu were maintained as bzr branches so that other people can easily submit branches on launchpad for fixes?10:29
mjunxone particular situation I'm thinking of is an easier way for people to write documentation or modify it from the base translation10:30
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ash211_mjunx: sounds like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoMoreSourcePackages10:33
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pygihi folks10:34
mjunxash211, that sounds like a GREAT idea! I love it10:35
ash211subscribe to the spec and propose it to the coming UDS then10:35
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mjunxhmm, I'm not an official developer here or anything...10:36
ash211me neither, I've just heard that proposal thrown around before10:37
mjunxthis developer summit you speak of, is it a real life meeting? if so, where does it take place? I'm a college student with like no job and stuff10:40
geseryes, it's an offline meeting :), try Seville, Spain as location10:43
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mjunxhmm, quite a bit far from chicago :/10:52
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ajmitchyes, quite a way from NZ too10:52
ajmitchhi doko 10:53
dokoajmitch: good morning10:53
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JohnFluxmjunx: but wouldn't it be better to have the documentation etc pushed upstream?10:56
mjunxJohnFlux, yes, but when you wait for over a month for that to happen, it gets kinda annoying...10:57
JohnFluxyeah, but hmm10:57
JohnFluxit's already a pain that launchpad has its own bug system10:58
JohnFluxas a kde developer I often don't see bug reports filed just in ubuntu's system and not upstream10:58
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JohnFluxhaving a 2nd source tree with its own patches might get annoying10:59
seb128JohnFlux: you can subscribe on a package in launchpad10:59
JohnFluxseb128: but I can't close the bugs etc 11:00
mjunxJohnFlux, I've reported kde bugs to launchpad only because sometimes I really think that ubuntu might have been the ones who screwed it up, and if not, the maintainer should know to forward the bug11:00
JohnFluxmjunx: yeah11:01
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JohnFluxI'm not saying it's a big problem, but the majority of kde developers don't have a launchpad account etc11:01
seb128JohnFlux: ask on #ubuntu-bugs to get bug triage rights11:01
mjunxJohnFlux, you can join the bugsquad team and then you can close bugs and stuff11:01
seb128JohnFlux: users are usually asked to report the bug at the distribution level because it might be due to a distro patch or something11:02
seb128JohnFlux: we lack manpower to send everything upstream then though11:03
=== JohnFlux nods
JohnFluxI do understand11:03
seb128JohnFlux: you are welcome to subscribe to the package on launchpad if you want to help there or read bugs that are not sent upstream11:03
JohnFluxand kde does the same thing anyway - we have imported versions from other projects11:03
JohnFluxour own modified copy of qt, and so on11:03
manchicken_We do a pretty good job sending KDE stuff back upstream.11:04
manchicken_But most of us Kubuntu folks are also KDE folks as well.11:05
=== JohnFlux nods
JohnFluxit would be nice to have launchpad opensourced etc and then have kde etc use it :-)11:05
manchicken_I'm not as much of a big KDE contributor though.  A handful of stuff here and there, but the big players seem to be involved.11:05
JohnFluxbut there's an argument for another day heh11:05
manchicken_launchpad isn't proprietary.  It's custom software.  It's not released.11:05
manchicken_And KDE could use launchpad.11:06
manchicken_It's pretty easy to register things on launchpad.11:06
manchicken_It's just that KDE has its own thing going on.11:06
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manchicken_KDE has been around for a while, and they've already got what they like pretty well defined.11:06
JohnFluxheh, nah11:06
JohnFluxwe've changed a lot of things11:07
JohnFluxit wouldn't be a biggie to change the bug tracking system as well11:07
manchicken_If KDE wanted to do launchpad, it's really quite simple to do so.11:07
JohnFluxnot politically11:07
manchicken_What do you mean?11:08
mjunxI like how they have a link to their "websvn", but instead they use viewcvs or something11:08
mjunxI mean, I am/was a developer for websvn, and it would have been awesome to get feedback like that from a project with commits in the 6 digits11:08
JohnFluxpersonally, I still remember what happened with the linux kernel and it relying on a proprietary revision control system11:08
manchicken_Launchpad is a service provided by custom software running on privately owned servers.11:08
manchicken_JohnFlux: bzr isn't proprietary.11:08
JohnFluxit wasn't an exact analogy :-)11:09
JohnFluxbut in reference to using launchpad11:09
mjunxI like subversion more than bzr, but that's because I don't have any experience with bzr ;p11:09
manchicken_Launchpad isn't proprietary11:09
JohnFluxi don't understand how you can say it's not proprietary11:09
manchicken_It's not distributed software.  It's custom software running on managed servers.11:09
seb128it is for the moment11:10
manchicken_If it's not distributed, it's not licensed, it's not proprietary.11:10
seb128JohnFlux: you can get back any data you put it though so it's doesn't enclose you11:10
manchicken_Even RMS agreed with me on that when he visited Chicago not too longago.11:10
JohnFluxnot sure I agree with that definition heh11:10
JohnFluxanyway, I'm sure the kde guys would want to have it running on their own systems11:10
manchicken_Software that is only being used on servers you own and is not distributed is by every definition Free Software.11:11
manchicken_And bzr can be run on their own systems.11:11
manchicken_You can use bzr with any host that supports sftp.11:11
JohnFluxbut not launchpad11:11
JohnFluxcan't you buy launchpad btw?11:11
manchicken_Launchpad is a web site, not a piece of software.11:11
JohnFluxI thought I saw canonical selling it or something11:12
JohnFlux#define launchpad the software that runs launchpad11:12
manchicken_You're merely requesting content from their HTTP servers.11:12
JohnFluxanyway, it would be nice to have launchpad released and open sourced :-)11:14
JohnFluxif that happened, I can see kde seriously considering using it11:14
manchicken_And I'm having a hard time finding anything that would lead me to believe that Launchpad is distributed in any way.11:14
manchicken_It would be nice to have Launchpad released as free software, yes.  But it is not by any definition that I can see non-free software.11:14
manchicken_Not any more than google is non-free software11:15
ion_apt-get install googled11:15
manchicken_apt-get install fsf.org11:15
JohnFluxmanchicken_: can you imagine ubuntu relying on 3rd party servers for its bug tracking?11:16
JohnFluxmanchicken_: where it has no control over them, and no way of running the service itself etc11:17
JohnFluxmanchicken_: it's just not a wise idea11:17
manchicken_JohnFlux: Nope.  I can't.  That's why they wrote their own.11:17
bhalethis isnt in the scope of the topic11:17
=== JohnFlux nods
JohnFluxbhale: it's about ubuntu development.  how much more on topic can you get?11:18
bhaleJohnFlux: been asked once.11:18
JohnFluxit was a silly request11:18
thomit's not anything to do with the technical development of the ubuntu distribution11:18
JohnFluxnot distribution, but development11:18
bhale"ubuntu development" in this context is very specific to development of packages and features of the open distro11:18
JohnFluxthis is ubuntu-devel not ubuntu-distribution11:19
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thomJohnFlux: if you wish to talk about launchpad, try #launchpad. or #ubuntu-offtopic11:19
manchicken_JohnFlux: I agree that this isn't one of those things where we clearly are off-topic, but if it's bothering/annoying/irritating folks, I don't think it'd be too much to ask for us to -offtopic it.11:19
thomyou are not on-topic in this channel11:19
mjunxit started off as on-topic ;)11:21
sharmsJohnFlux: #ubuntu-offtopic11:27
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