| mdke | cjwatson: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/advanced-topics/C/index.html | 12:13 |
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| cjwatson | mdke: neat, thanks | 12:14 |
| mdke | np | 12:14 |
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| Kano | btw. when will fuse 2.6.5 hit ubuntu? | 12:24 |
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| cjwatson | Kano: I suspect it would help if it were packaged in Debian; then it would simply be on our merge queue | 12:29 |
| mdke | when I click "Nominate for release" on an Ubuntu bug report, the next screen states "There is no release manager for Ubuntu." | 12:31 |
| mdke | if I thought that were true, I'd be worried :) Can someone add the relevant people to the relevant place? | 12:31 |
| Kano | cjwatson, fuse+ntfs-3g work both together and need to be always the latest versions | 12:32 |
| cjwatson | Kano: I am not saying it is not necessary; I am saying what the most effective approach would be | 12:32 |
| cjwatson | (we don't have a dedicated maintainer for fuse in Ubuntu) | 12:33 |
| Kano | well i need it, and if you dont package it,then i do | 12:34 |
| mdke | that's the spirit | 12:34 |
| cjwatson | that's fine, you can contribute it in the usual way | 12:34 |
| Kano | my way is to put it on my website ;) | 12:35 |
| cjwatson | or you can duplicate work if you like, sure | 12:35 |
| Kano | because then i dont have to discuss if it is needed or not | 12:35 |
| cjwatson | you do not have to do so anyway | 12:35 |
| mdke | Kano: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for contributing new packages that you work on | 12:35 |
| cjwatson | but if you are on #ubuntu-devel, it is expected that you discuss Ubuntu development | 12:36 |
| Kano | cjwatson, of course i fixed already some packages which are in motu | 12:36 |
| Kano | some dash problems | 12:36 |
| cjwatson | much appreciated. I don't know why you're suddenly being hostile about this one, then | 12:37 |
| Kano | the problem with fuse is that it is in main | 12:37 |
| cjwatson | that is why the ubuntu-main-sponsors team exists | 12:37 |
| Kano | and nobody wanted to update it for feisty | 12:37 |
| Kano | so even if i build something upon feisty i need this extra | 12:38 |
| cjwatson | there is no bug report explaining the problems | 12:38 |
| TerminX | I know this channel isn't supposed to be support per se, but I have an interesting issue in Firefox you guys might want to know about | 12:38 |
| TerminX | it crashes whenever I type "So," into any forum reply box | 12:39 |
| TerminX | (in gutsy) | 12:39 |
| cjwatson | TerminX: turn off spellchecking | 12:39 |
| TerminX | ahh | 12:39 |
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| MindUs | Free phone calls all around the world -----> http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/ | 12:39 |
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| mdke | it's a conspiracy to stop people starting sentences with "So," | 12:39 |
| Kano | cjwatson, i told this channel about 2 or 3 mouth ago | 12:39 |
| cjwatson | TerminX: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/111568 | 12:39 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 111568 in firefox "Gutsy Firefox crashes with spell checking enabled (dup-of: 107340)" [High,In progress] | 12:39 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 107340 in firefox "[GUTSY] MASTER firefox crashed in spellchecker with undefined symbol: _ZN8Hunspell5spellEPKc [@ mozSpellChecker::GetCurrentDictionary] [@ mozSpellI18NManagerConstructor] " [High,In progress] | 12:39 |
| Kano | what the problem is | 12:39 |
| cjwatson | Kano: IRC is a lossy medium, and you cannot expect any kind of tracking whatsoever of problems reported only on IRC | 12:39 |
| Kano | well i track error messages | 12:40 |
| TerminX | ha, I just saw the libmyspell.so symbol lookup error in my terminal after you linked that | 12:40 |
| TerminX | d'oh | 12:40 |
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| Kano | perferred thru irc,because i can tell ppl to fix it in a way or another | 12:40 |
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| cjwatson | Kano: with all due respect, that may be how you work but it is not how everyone works | 12:41 |
| MindUs | Free phone calls all around the world -----> http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/ | 12:41 |
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| cjwatson | Kano: nor is it how we ask people to work with us | 12:42 |
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| Kano | are you here Mithrandir ? | 12:56 |
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| azgtem | cjwatson: not even the 386 net boot cd that you suggested works on my k6-2 computer :(( | 01:17 |
| cjwatson | azgtem: then I doubt the issue is what processor it was compiled for - you'll need to file a bug | 01:17 |
| cjwatson | I suppose it could be that gfxboot breaks somehow on k6-2 - try booting in expert mode from the alternate install CD (to avoid 'quiet' on the kernel command line) and see if there are any kernel log messages at all? | 01:19 |
| cjwatson | if not, it could be the bootloader breaking | 01:19 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: anyway, i tested it with knoppix 5.1 -- it does the same, so it is a debian problem. BUT, i tested it with knoppix 4.0 and it works! so the bug is some debian regression between the release dates of knoppix 4 and knoppix 5... if this has any relevance | 01:19 |
| cjwatson | try also holding down shift at boot time to suppress the fancy boot menu | 01:20 |
| cjwatson | note that neither our fancy boot menu nor our kernel is common with Debian; at that point, the only thing definitely common with Debian is syslinux | 01:20 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: oh, didn't know about the shift trick | 01:20 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: anyway, knoppix does have some similar boot menu, so it seems i need to test debian itself, after all, before i conclude it's a debian problem | 01:22 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: ok then, is there any net boot cd equivalent of the one you gave me that i could use to install ubuntu? | 01:23 |
| cjwatson | azgtem: given that I have no idea what the problem is, I cannot answer that question | 01:23 |
| cjwatson | we do not have a magic CD that fixes all unknown bugs, if that's what you mean ;-) | 01:24 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: no, i was only asking about a debian one | 01:24 |
| cjwatson | oh, right | 01:24 |
| cjwatson | azgtem: http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/debian-installer/ | 01:24 |
| azgtem | i want to give debian a try and then to somehow install ubuntu | 01:24 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: cool, thanks a lot | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | holding down shift should bypass most of the bootloader code that differs between Debian and Ubuntu | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | so that is still worth a try too | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | if that fixes it, please file a bug on gfxboot | 01:25 |
| jdong | cjwatson: wait, what does shift do? | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | jdong: skips gfxboot | 01:25 |
| jdong | disable gfxboot? | 01:25 |
| jdong | REALLY? | 01:25 |
| jdong | that would've helped me a lot with kvm! | 01:25 |
| cjwatson | jdong: see /usr/share/doc/syslinux/README.gfxboot | 01:26 |
| cjwatson | actually that says that it lets you interactively disable certain bits, which is a lie, but that's not important | 01:26 |
| jdong | cool | 01:26 |
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| jdong | then I'll kvm a bit again | 01:26 |
| jdong | confirmed, it works | 01:27 |
| jdong | yay, kvm boots now | 01:27 |
| azgtem | jdong: you don't even see the ubuntu logo?? | 01:27 |
| jdong | although WOW are kvm graphics impressingly slow | 01:27 |
| jdong | azgtem: before I saw a nice kvm stackdump | 01:28 |
| jdong | becase intel-vt doesn't do the realmode calls for gfxboot's screen | 01:28 |
| azgtem | jdong: oh, i thought you were testing that on a normal computer boot | 01:28 |
| jdong | nope; kvm | 01:28 |
| azgtem | right | 01:28 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: even when i keep shift pressed, i still see the nice orange ubuntu logo | 01:29 |
| jdong | yes | 01:29 |
| azgtem | or pink | 01:29 |
| jdong | that's the old syslinux style logo | 01:29 |
| cjwatson | what jdong said | 01:29 |
| jdong | not the gfxboot one that puts the video in weird modes :D | 01:29 |
| azgtem | oh, right | 01:29 |
| azgtem | cjwatson, jdong: but shouldn't fb=off (or something like that) solve this problem anyway? | 01:30 |
| azgtem | something like that = i am not sure about the syntax | 01:30 |
| cjwatson | azgtem: that's much later | 01:31 |
| jdong | Colin is the expert past this point. I have no experience with d-i internals | 01:31 |
| cjwatson | fb=false translates to debian-installer/framebuffer=false which tells the installer not to use a framebuffer; this does not help if the kernel isn't coming up | 01:31 |
| cjwatson | and it's unrelated to gfxboot | 01:31 |
| `23meg | cjwatson, would it be possible/feasible to create a barebones X environment to let Ubiquity run on systems with low memory? | 01:33 |
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| cjwatson | `23meg: it's been discussed, but I haven't had time to actually do it | 01:36 |
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| `23meg | so it looks doable; good to know | 01:37 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: it seems shift doesn't help on my box, so could you please tell me what level the error is, so that i may search for deeper answers myself? i also mention, if of any help at all, that most of the times i can see some ten quickly disappearing "progress bar" dots before the computer reboots, but at least once i saw more than thirty... if you find my description funny then you just know how desperate i am :) | 01:38 |
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| cjwatson | azgtem: I think you need help from a kernel developer at this point, TBH | 01:39 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: good to know | 01:40 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: thank you again | 01:40 |
| cjwatson | sorry I can't help more | 01:40 |
| === jdong grins | ||
| jdong | a friend sent me his travel itinerary to Hawaii complete with 3 PDF's of boarding passes, while he sent his family a build log..... | 01:43 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: the fact that i know where to look further already means enough help to me, to be honest, i didn't even know the kernel could be responsible for this | 01:43 |
| jdong | azgtem: unexpected reboots typically are the kernel's fault at some point :) | 01:44 |
| jdong | it's also a convenient way of saying "not my fault" :D | 01:44 |
| azgtem | heh | 01:44 |
| azgtem | true | 01:44 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: and one last question: from your experience, the level you think this problem is -- is it the same level boot options like "noapic" etc. apply? i mean, is it still possible, in principle, that some magical boot option solve the problem? | 01:46 |
| mjg59 | Well, it's either syslinux or the kernel | 01:46 |
| mjg59 | If it's the kernel, it's happening in early setup code where any failure is quite likely to result in the machine rebooting | 01:46 |
| mjg59 | Diagnosing is likely to be immensely painful | 01:47 |
| mjg59 | Does the current Fedora test release have the same problem? | 01:47 |
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| azgtem | cjwatson: oh, btw, i forgot to mention: after i installed ubuntu on it (by using another machine and copying the contents of the hdd), it could boot into ubuntu, so it is only a cd live/alternate problem | 02:13 |
| cjwatson | azgtem: that does tend to suggest syslinux | 02:15 |
| cjwatson | doesn't make it a whole lot easier, mind | 02:15 |
| azgtem | cjwatson: is it possible to use grub on /dev/hda and force it to boot the cdrom? or what methods do multidistro cds use? | 02:18 |
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| jdong | azgtem: only if grub was compiled with cdrom support or patches or whatnot | 02:36 |
| jdong | which default Ubuntu GRUB is not | 02:36 |
| azgtem | jdong: but in that case it does?? | 02:38 |
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| jdong | azgtem: the bootable CD's that use GRUB do support CD's. Ubuntu does not use GRUB to boot its CD's. | 02:58 |
| azgtem | jdong: btw, *why* doesn't ubuntu use grub? | 02:58 |
| mjg59 | Traditionally, it's been more fragile than iso/syslinux | 02:59 |
| jdong | azgtem: apparently more prone to failure | 02:59 |
| jdong | heh mjg59 beat me | 02:59 |
| mjg59 | Also less scriptable, as far as I can remember | 02:59 |
| azgtem | jdong, mjg59: oh, right, i experienced that myself. actually even lilo is much more reliable, imo | 03:00 |
| jdong | but lilo is too static :D | 03:00 |
| jdong | it apparently has some other limitations too.... | 03:00 |
| azgtem | i hate it that grub has so many wonderful features and yet is less dependable | 03:00 |
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| azgtem | especially considering that reliability is very important for a boot loader | 03:01 |
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| fabbione | monring | 06:27 |
| poningru | bwhahahahahha | 06:28 |
| poningru | http://lolgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/125060350_bc84204cd9.jpg | 06:28 |
| ajmitch | morning fabbione | 06:31 |
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| Nafallo | morning fabbione :-) | 06:32 |
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| fabbione | YAY for standalone nss and nspr! | 08:33 |
| Nafallo | oh. nice! :-) | 08:33 |
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| ubijtsa | poningru: *lol* | 08:34 |
| Burgundavia | fabbione: hmm? | 08:35 |
| dholbach | good morning | 08:35 |
| ubijtsa | moin alles | 08:35 |
| fabbione | Burgundavia: libnss and libnspr were in FF sources but they are used by different packages | 08:36 |
| fabbione | Burgundavia: with the split, i don't need to ship FF sources on server-source.iso | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | ah, right | 08:40 |
| Burgundavia | nspr is required for fds as well | 08:40 |
| Nafallo | fds? | 08:41 |
| Burgundavia | fedora directory servcer | 08:41 |
| Nafallo | ah | 08:41 |
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| fabbione | Burgundavia: it's much easier than that... RHEL is moving away from openssl for all its packages | 08:43 |
| fabbione | Burgundavia: and they either switch to nss/nspr for strong encryption or to gnutls for weak | 08:43 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: where have you heard this? | 08:43 |
| fabbione | ubijtsa: just talking with some of our developers | 08:44 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: 'our' as in Ubuntu or.. ? | 08:44 |
| fabbione | s/our/their | 08:45 |
| fabbione | i am still drinking my first cup of coffee | 08:45 |
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| === ubijtsa will have to make some internal inquiries.. | ||
| ubijtsa | fabbione: thank's for the heads up, first I have heard of it.. | 08:45 |
| fabbione | ubijtsa: it's not really a secret.. openssl was not certified by the US gov authorities till a few weeks ago | 08:46 |
| fabbione | and to sell support to US Gov you need to have conformant ssl/crypto libs/apps | 08:46 |
| Nafallo | fabbione: does that mean firefox-dev build-dep that was libxul-dev in debian should be something else now? :-) | 08:46 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: yes, but it would be nice if the support organisation was aware of such a change. ;-) | 08:46 |
| ubijtsa | s/was aware/was made aware/ | 08:47 |
| fabbione | ubijtsa: well i was only told that.. i have no clue how that's communicated internally to RH.... | 08:47 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: that's what I'll find out today | 08:47 |
| fabbione | ubijtsa: neither i can be 100% certain how official is that | 08:47 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: if it's going in to Fedora, it'll make its way into RHEL pretty much. | 08:48 |
| fabbione | ubijtsa: as i said, i was told this.. not how the process is taking place | 08:49 |
| fabbione | ubijtsa: might as well be a RH fork of packages only that doesn't influence Fedora | 08:49 |
| fabbione | i really don't know more than what i told you already | 08:49 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: that is less likely | 08:49 |
| ubijtsa | fabbione: thank you for letting me know though :) | 08:50 |
| fabbione | np | 08:50 |
| dholbach | can we sync from Debian NEW? | 08:53 |
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| cjwatson | dholbach: in theory it could probably be arranged, but it would require me to abuse privileges and is not a good idea anyway | 08:54 |
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| dholbach | cjwatson: ok, I'm just being impatient :) | 08:55 |
| dholbach | nevermind :-) | 08:55 |
| pitti | Good morning | 09:00 |
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| pitti | merges.ubuntu.com!! | 09:17 |
| tepsipakki | whee! | 09:18 |
| ajmitch | it's back & better than ever? | 09:18 |
| tepsipakki | umm, no :) | 09:18 |
| ajmitch | tepsipakki: well up-to-date is better than ever :) | 09:18 |
| ajmitch | I see that the main pages listing merges aren't updated yet | 09:19 |
| tepsipakki | correct :) | 09:19 |
| tepsipakki | but something is happening | 09:19 |
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| stittel | Where is development of Ubuntu taking place? I mean the packages commited to the apt-repositories seem to be more or less finished and ready to use, but there must be some place where things are commited and discussed before the package is finished? | 09:30 |
| stittel | Most probably this happens in a revision control system like CVS or Subversion. If so, what is it's address? | 09:30 |
| mdke | stittel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good overview of the processes | 09:31 |
| stittel | I am thinking about getting involved as a package maintainer at same point but I'd really like to have a closer look at the development process. | 09:31 |
| stittel | Thanks. | 09:31 |
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| pitti | Riddell: any reason why kdebase still depends on pmount? | 09:39 |
| pitti | Riddell: (and kubuntu-desktop) | 09:39 |
| stittel | Doesn't KDE use pmount/pumount for mounting removable media like USB sticks? | 09:40 |
| stittel | Just a thought, I am not a developer. :) | 09:41 |
| pitti | stittel: I thought it would have switched to using hal long ago | 09:44 |
| pitti | stittel: in fact, it used hal even earlier than Ubuntu's Gnome AFAIR | 09:44 |
| pitti | and we just made hal use pmount as a backend in dapper | 09:44 |
| stittel | What happens if you move the pmount binary and attach an USB stick? | 09:45 |
| stittel | This should give us some clearity. | 09:45 |
| pitti | stittel: well, that's why I asked Jonathan, I don't have a KDE here ATM | 09:47 |
| stittel | Wait a sec. | 09:47 |
| pitti | I would just really like to move it to universe, since I don't have much motivation to develop it any more | 09:47 |
| stittel | Do you want me to move pmount-hal, too? | 09:49 |
| pitti | stittel: oh, just try sudo dpkg -P --force-depends pmount | 09:49 |
| pitti | stittel: pmount-hal will just fail without pmount, so it doesn't matter much | 09:49 |
| cjwatson | stittel: I've added a practical note on revision control to UbuntuDevelopment | 09:50 |
| cjwatson | (under "Revision control (Bazaar)") | 09:50 |
| stittel | cjwatson: Thanks. | 09:50 |
| stittel | pitti: USB sticks works fine with KDE without pmount installed. Everything like usual. | 09:51 |
| pitti | stittel: right, that's what I guessed; just a forgotten dependency | 09:51 |
| pitti | stittel: thanks for testing! | 09:51 |
| stittel | BTW: Why is "Storage Media" in the KDE System Menu pointing to "/media" and not to the "media:/" KIO slave? | 09:52 |
| stittel | "/media" is rather useless for examle to remount and unmounted USB stick. | 09:53 |
| stittel | s/and/an/ | 09:53 |
| ssam | is there much chance of Bug #109204 being fixed in feisty? it makes gnumeric mostly unusable on powerpc. the patch is tiny, has been commit up stream, and there are a few positive test reports. | 09:54 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 109204 in goffice "Gnumeric strange colors (purple charts) on bigendian" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109204 | 09:54 |
| shawarma | /win 2 | 10:06 |
| shawarma | doh | 10:06 |
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| asac | Mithrandir: can you please give back nss? | 10:18 |
| Mithrandir | asac: it's depwait | 10:19 |
| asac | on what? | 10:20 |
| Mithrandir | so it'll be done once libnspr4-dev | 10:20 |
| Mithrandir | which is probably in NEW | 10:20 |
| asac | libnspr4-dev should b e there | 10:20 |
| asac | ah | 10:20 |
| asac | ok | 10:20 |
| Mithrandir | s/so it'll be done once// | 10:20 |
| Mithrandir | once that hits the archive, it'll be retried automatically | 10:20 |
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| asac | Mithrandir: i see libnspr4-dev in gutsy /pool | 10:22 |
| asac | ... and can install it ;) | 10:22 |
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| asac | ah ... it ended up in universe | 10:22 |
| asac | hmm | 10:22 |
| zyga | morning | 10:23 |
| asac | cjwatson: didn't you direct nss/nspr to main? | 10:24 |
| cjwatson | asac: I only processed the source package; somebody else must have done the binaries | 10:26 |
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| Lure | stittel: this was done as part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDEMedia | 10:27 |
| cjwatson | asac: and I did set the source package components to main | 10:27 |
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| Lure | stittel: if you are missing some feature, ping Riddell or Sime in #kubuntu-devel | 10:27 |
| Mithrandir | somebody probably just blatted it through and didn't pay enough attention. Easy enough to fix. | 10:27 |
| cjwatson | asac: anyhow, I've moved the nspr binaries to main, which should fix the dep-wait problem after the next publisher run | 10:28 |
| cjwatson | they'll have dep-waited due to the ogre model (the archive has layers; main can't build-dep on universe) | 10:28 |
| asac | cjwatson: yes that makes sense | 10:28 |
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| ajmitch | cjwatson: I presume we have the same stance as debian on gpl & openssl? | 11:02 |
| cjwatson | ajmitch: yes | 11:02 |
| Mithrandir | that's hardly a stance, it's just how the licence is. | 11:03 |
| ajmitch | ok, thanks | 11:03 |
| ajmitch | the lack of a decent gnutls patch for openldap 2.3 stops mit kerberos having an ldap kdb backend | 11:05 |
| ajmitch | from what I found, the ssl linking issue was the main reason for not having libldap2-dev built from openldap2.3 | 11:06 |
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| Riddell | pitti: I don't think it does need to depend on pmount any more, I'll check to confirm | 11:14 |
| pitti | Riddell: stittel already confirmed | 11:15 |
| pitti | Riddell: that would be nice; the same dependency is in Debian as well, btw | 11:16 |
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| seb128 | bryce: when you file a sync request please describe the ubuntu changes and why they can be dropped | 12:19 |
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| gnomefreak | pitti: are you around for a quick question? | 12:31 |
| pitti | gnomefreak: please don't ask to ask, just ask | 12:31 |
| gnomefreak | pitti: in /etc/default/apport i have enable=1 but i never get the crash dialog | 12:31 |
| gnomefreak | is that a bug or just not fully worked out yet? | 12:32 |
| pitti | gnomefreak: it controls a different thing | 12:32 |
| gnomefreak | oh | 12:32 |
| pitti | gconftool-2 -s --type boolean /apps/update-notifier/show_apport_crashes true | 12:33 |
| gnomefreak | ok ty | 12:33 |
| pitti | I think for gutsy I'll enable it soon again | 12:34 |
| pitti | once the initial merge rush is done | 12:34 |
| gnomefreak | cool :) | 12:34 |
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| pitti | Riddell: do you think that we need to discuss http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/kubuntu-restricted-manager.html? | 12:39 |
| pitti | Riddell: AFAICS there's little to discuss, it's a SMOP | 12:39 |
| Riddell | pitti: SMOP? | 12:40 |
| pitti | simple matter of programming | 12:40 |
| Mithrandir | simple matter of programming | 12:40 |
| === pitti ^5s Mithrandir | ||
| Mithrandir | oh, so much for paying attention. :-P | 12:40 |
| pitti | Riddell: the backend is already UI agnostic, we just need to pull out the Ui independent stuff from the current frontend and cobble a KDE frontend | 12:41 |
| pitti | Riddell: I see little value of wasting a pre-scheduled BoF on it TBH | 12:41 |
| Riddell | pitti: I seem to remember a while ago you talking about having to make it frontend independent | 12:42 |
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| Riddell | pitti: but if that's not an issue then it doesn't need a full session | 12:42 |
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| pitti | Riddell: well, of course there need to be some GTK/Qt specific bits, such as .glade vs. .ui and so on | 12:43 |
| pitti | Riddell: but the workflow can be in an abstract base class | 12:43 |
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| pitti | similar to apport-{qt,gtk} | 12:43 |
| Riddell | pitti: so we probably don't need that session, but I'd still like to flesh out the spec and have it checked by you | 12:46 |
| pitti | right, of course | 12:46 |
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| stittel | Lure: Thanks, I will do that. | 01:02 |
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| cjwatson | 677 packages in NEW, 677 packages; take one down, process it, 725 packages in NEW | 01:14 |
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| shawarma | *G* | 01:14 |
| ajmitch | cjwatson: long day then? :) | 01:15 |
| Nafallo | cjwatson: ouch | 01:15 |
| asac | cjwatson: ok, can you move nss binaries to main as well now? | 01:17 |
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| tepsipakki | asac: I tried to change the default homepage by editing /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js, but it only shows a blank page no matter what (this on Feisty). Ideas? | 01:23 |
| asac | yes | 01:23 |
| tepsipakki | same on dapper, too | 01:23 |
| asac | you have to change alternative | 01:23 |
| asac | not pref | 01:23 |
| cjwatson | asac: done for next publisher run | 01:24 |
| asac | tepsipakki: /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage | 01:24 |
| asac | cjwatson: thanks | 01:24 |
| tepsipakki | asac: but the same holds for other settings | 01:24 |
| asac | which? | 01:24 |
| asac | e.g. do you see the settings changed in about:config ? | 01:24 |
| tepsipakki | that I'd like to override.. as it's said in the firefox.js, that file (or files in that directory) can be used to override settings in /usr/share/firefox/defaults/pref | 01:25 |
| tepsipakki | hm, I'll try other settings first :P | 01:26 |
| asac | yes please do | 01:26 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: slab (the source package) is called gnome-main-menu in Debian; ok to sync with override or do you want to upload a merge? | 01:28 |
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| seb128 | Mithrandir: I'll upload a merge, there is some changes to do like making it use gnome-app-install | 01:40 |
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| Mithrandir | seb128: ok, thanks. | 01:41 |
| seb128 | no problem | 01:42 |
| tepsipakki | asac: nope, no setting is overridden by /e/f/p/firefox.js | 01:42 |
| tepsipakki | oh wait | 01:43 |
| tepsipakki | maybe the parser is buggy | 01:43 |
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| tepsipakki | yep, if there is an error somewhere, it fails to apply the rest | 01:51 |
| asac | so does it work or not? | 01:55 |
| tepsipakki | it works, if the config has no errors ;) | 01:55 |
| asac | hopefully the default config has no errors, does it? | 01:55 |
| tepsipakki | no, that seems to be fine, but our site-wide settings were busted | 01:56 |
| tepsipakki | used to work with mozilla, no-one had touched it for three years... | 01:56 |
| tepsipakki | yay for maintenance | 01:57 |
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| asac | oh ... so mozilla was more robust about syntax errors? or what kind of errors did you have in your config? | 02:00 |
| tepsipakki | all kinds of.. I need to double check that | 02:01 |
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| siretart | cjwatson: is there any Forum or Workshop about some 'unattended-install infrastructure'? Mark mentioned it on ubuntu-devel-announce, but I cannot find it on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/track-installer.html | 02:02 |
| siretart | or does the 'automated installation' workshop cover that? | 02:03 |
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| TheMuso | If someone gave back ardour, it still FTBFS on the same weird issue. Only i386 built so far, but same problem. | 02:55 |
| === TheMuso goes to check again with an updated pbuilder. | ||
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| Tonio_ | #ubuntu-fr-classroom | 02:56 |
| Tonio_ | oops | 02:56 |
| Tonio_ | sorry for this :) | 02:56 |
| Tonio_ | is there a common/known way to "divert" a debconf generated file, so that not any other package can overwrite it ? | 02:57 |
| Treenaks | Packages should not overwrite manually edited files without asking.. even IF they use debconf, afaik | 02:58 |
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| Tonio_ | Treenaks: yes but in automatic deploiement environment | 03:00 |
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| Tonio_ | Treenaks: I cannot take the risk to always answer "yes" or "no" | 03:01 |
| Tonio_ | Treenaks: that's why I'm searching for a dpkg-divert equivalent | 03:01 |
| Treenaks | Always answering 'no' means changed config files will remain in their changed state | 03:01 |
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| Tonio_ | hum... | 03:02 |
| Tonio_ | well that doesn't exactly feet my needs btw, but if that's the only solution.... :) | 03:03 |
| Mithrandir | Tonio_: chattr +i on the file? | 03:09 |
| Tonio_ | Mithrandir: ouch ;) | 03:10 |
| Tonio_ | Mithrandir: well that'll work ;) | 03:10 |
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| Tonio_ | Mithrandir: well waiting for debconf to handle that (sounds like in project) that's not a bad option, thanks :) | 03:11 |
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| TheMuso | hmm. Ok pbuilder + uploaded ardour package still don't choak. | 03:12 |
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| Mithrandir | Tonio_: except debconf doesn't do anything about configuration files, so it's the wrong place to apply any kind of fix. | 03:14 |
| Tonio_ | Mithrandir: I know, well I don't know what'll be fixed, but I read on the debian wiki there was kind of a project to make it possible to divert debconf generated files | 03:16 |
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| Tonio_ | I don't know much more on that point, except I would love it was already implemented since I need this :) | 03:16 |
| ivoks | Tonio_: ;) hi | 03:17 |
| Tonio_ | hey ivoks :) | 03:17 |
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| jsgotangco | hey jono | 03:29 |
| ajmitch | hello jono, jsgotangco | 03:29 |
| jono | hey | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | hey ajmitch | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | ajmitch: err are you somewhere that is not around the southern hemisphere? | 03:30 |
| ajmitch | jsgotangco: I am still deep in the south | 03:30 |
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| bhale | hi jsgotangco, ajmitch | 03:34 |
| jsgotangco | hey bhale hows it going there | 03:34 |
| bhale | good thanks | 03:35 |
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| ajmitch | hi bhale | 03:39 |
| ajmitch | jsgotangco: don't worry, I'll leave soon | 03:39 |
| jsgotangco | yeah its a very long swim for sure | 03:39 |
| ajmitch | hopefully I won't have to swim | 03:39 |
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| ajmitch | time for me to sleep anyway | 03:40 |
| ajmitch | night | 03:40 |
| siretart | ajmitch: have a good flight! | 03:41 |
| Mithrandir | the merge-o-matic should be back in business now. | 03:43 |
| StevenK | YAY! | 03:44 |
| Mithrandir | I'll send an announcement to u-d-a soonish | 03:44 |
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| StevenK | Mithrandir: How often will MoM update? | 03:49 |
| Mithrandir | StevenK: I need to confirm with Scott that everything is fine, but once he's ok with it, I'll have it run as often as it used to (which I believe is every two hours or so) | 03:50 |
| === StevenK nods. | ||
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| jdong | seb128: WRT backports bug 76382, the version verified is 0.15-0ubuntu2, but it also needs that trivial debdiff I posted. The lowered python b-d has been verified with bzr developers. | 04:01 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 76382 in edgy-backports "Backport bzr 0.13-0ubuntu1 from Feisty to Edgy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76382 | 04:01 |
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| jdong | seb128: in addition, please backport bug 111630 for Dapper and Edgy too, thanks! | 04:05 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 111630 in edgy-backports "backport KTorrent 2.1.4" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111630 | 04:05 |
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| seb128 | jdong: I don't know how to source change a backport | 04:15 |
| jdong | seb128: I was told it's done like a normal dput upload by a core-dev and ends up in backports source NEW | 04:15 |
| seb128 | so a normal upload with edgy-backports target? | 04:16 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: ^ | 04:16 |
| pitti | seb128: that'll work, but we want to avoid it at all costs | 04:18 |
| jdong | in this case it's a trivial build-dep change that doesn't have any negative impacts, IMO | 04:18 |
| pitti | jdong: can't we do it as alternative build dep in gutsy and backport then? | 04:18 |
| jdong | pitti: that would also work, but I was told before not to request development uploads to fix backports problems..... | 04:19 |
| jdong | I don't mind which way it's done :) | 04:19 |
| jdong | gutsy has 0.16~rc2 though.... | 04:19 |
| pitti | jdong: if we have to do an upload anyway, it seems easier to me to do it once for gutsy and then keep backportability instead of repeatedly doing it for backports | 04:21 |
| jdong | pitti: ok, that's a good plan for future packages, but in this case gutsy has already progressed to a development release of bzr... :( | 04:22 |
| pitti | jdong: ah, I see | 04:22 |
| pitti | in this case it's justified, I guess | 04:22 |
| jdong | pitti: so do alternate build-deps always work? | 04:23 |
| seb128 | jdong: are you sure you want the gusty ktorrent backported to dapper? ;) | 04:23 |
| seb128 | that seems to be quite some change | 04:23 |
| pitti | jdong: as long as the first one doesn't exist (as opposed to doing the wrong thing), yes | 04:23 |
| jdong | seb128: yep, I have tested it, and it works fine. the Dapper backports users welcome the new feature additions | 04:24 |
| seb128 | I don't like doing changes to dapper but it's your call ;) | 04:24 |
| jdong | seb128: hehe fortunately only I have to deal with supporting -backports :D | 04:25 |
| seb128 | ktorrent backports done | 04:25 |
| jdong | pitti: would it be feasible that when developers upload a tightened build-dep to also leave in an alternate, for non-EOL Ubuntu releases? | 04:26 |
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| jdong | thanks seb128! | 04:26 |
| pitti | jdong: certainly feasible, but most often we forget about it | 04:26 |
| jdong | pitti: yeah, that's understandable. It's hard for me to figure out when a b-d is serious, and when it's just to force a build against a newer library for a gutsy-specific reason... | 04:28 |
| jdong | a lot of the times the changelog is helpful | 04:28 |
| jdong | but other times it's not :D | 04:28 |
| pitti | jdong: it eases transitions | 04:28 |
| pitti | jdong: you can upload all bits of a transition at once, and the buildds will DRTR with 'depwait' | 04:28 |
| jdong | right | 04:28 |
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| jdong | but a lot of times those tightened build-dep are only meaningful for the development release during that transition period | 04:29 |
| pitti | right | 04:29 |
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| jdong | it's just I can't help but think there must be a more sensible way of doing than me requesting transitioning b-d's to be removed or alts be added in; there must be a better way of doing it that doesn't inconvenience everyone involved... | 04:30 |
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| wwoods | pitti: ping - got some apport questions and some code you might be interested in | 04:34 |
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| asac | someone has a minute to NEW thunderbird 2.0? pitti? | 04:35 |
| pitti | wwoods: pong | 04:37 |
| pitti | asac: oh, why source new? just a source package rename from m-t? | 04:38 |
| asac | transition | 04:39 |
| asac | name | 04:39 |
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| wwoods | pitti: when you've got a few minutes, I've got an rpm implementation and some code to read PID/signal out of elfcore files | 04:39 |
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| cjwatson | siretart: ubiquity-automation covers that | 04:39 |
| wwoods | the latter, of course, will require some patches to apport, so I'm wondering how you want those made (bzr repo magic? patches against tarball?) | 04:40 |
| pitti | wwoods: oh, cool; did you develop against recent bzr head? I recently had to extend the packaging interface a bit | 04:40 |
| wwoods | pitti: I didn't, actually. I was just checking that out | 04:40 |
| pitti | wwoods: bzr branch would be best of course, for mutual merging | 04:40 |
| wwoods | I'll do that and come back with some patches against bzr head then | 04:40 |
| bddebian | Heya | 04:41 |
| pitti | wwoods: great! | 04:41 |
| asac | pitti: sorry got a phone call ... its transition of source package as well as bin package names (e.g. with transitional packages) | 04:41 |
| pitti | wwoods: I'll be off for a bit and then be back online, in an hour or so | 04:41 |
| pitti | asac: alright, so this will need binary-NEW again after it built; source accepted | 04:42 |
| asac | further i dropped dom-inspector which is constantly broken :) | 04:42 |
| wwoods | pitti: cool, I've got a Fedora QA meeting in a bit so I'll be back around later today | 04:43 |
| pitti | wwoods: TTYL then, looking forward to it :) | 04:43 |
| asac | pitti: can i upload locale packages now as well ... or will this cause mor bugging around - so better wait till tbird is up? | 04:43 |
| pitti | asac: I guess it doesn't matter much in which direction they break :) | 04:44 |
| pitti | asac: (old locales with new tbird or new locales with old tbird) | 04:44 |
| pitti | and it's transient anyway | 04:44 |
| asac | hehe ... i mean not for the user, but for the archive administration :) | 04:45 |
| asac | but nevermind :) | 04:45 |
| pitti | asac: doesn't matter much AFAICS | 04:45 |
| === pitti takes a break, bbl | ||
| asac | pitti: in 15 minutes :) | 04:46 |
| pitti | asac: in 15 mins is what? | 04:46 |
| asac | distro meeting? | 04:47 |
| asac | or has it been cancelled? | 04:47 |
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| asac | pitti: ^^ | 04:47 |
| pitti | asac: noone announced it yet, and we'll see each other on Sunday anyway | 04:47 |
| asac | yeah ;) | 04:47 |
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| fabbione | distro team meeting is NOW | 05:03 |
| iwj | Are you sure ? | 05:04 |
| iwj | Thu May 3 15:04:50 UTC 2007 | 05:04 |
| seb128 | iwj: and meeting is a 15utc | 05:06 |
| seb128 | at | 05:06 |
| fabbione | iwj: yes | 05:06 |
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| wwoods | stupid question: are .deb files GPG signed? | 05:44 |
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| shawarma | wwoods: Not individually, no. | 05:45 |
| wwoods | really? huh | 05:46 |
| shawarma | wwoods: our source packages are signed, and so is the Release file which provides basic authentication of the source of the packages. | 05:46 |
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| shawarma | wwoods: So you trust the repository rather than each package. | 05:46 |
| cjwatson | there's an unbroken chain of signatures of hashes that you can use to verify the authenticity of each .deb | 05:47 |
| cjwatson | (to put what shawarma said another way) | 05:47 |
| cbx33 | hey guys in feisty, anyone know who deals with libnotify? | 05:47 |
| cbx33 | or anyone know about the set_icon_from_pixbuf? | 05:47 |
| cbx33 | "This will only work when libnotify is compiled against D-BUS 0.60 or higher." | 05:47 |
| cbx33 | i thought we were hight dbus than that now? | 05:48 |
| cbx33 | hight = higher | 05:48 |
| cbx33 | however it still refuses to set the icon from the pixbuf | 05:48 |
| wwoods | shawarma: okay, hm. so the Release file is part of the repo, and it's got package hashes? | 05:49 |
| wwoods | (please forgive my amazingly poor grasp of apt repos. heh) | 05:50 |
| mvo | cbx33: look at the update-notifier source code, it works there | 05:50 |
| shawarma | wwoods: It's got hashes of the Packages files. | 05:50 |
| shawarma | wwoods: which in turn has hashes of the individual packages. | 05:51 |
| cbx33 | mvo hmmm | 05:51 |
| cbx33 | that's what I thought | 05:51 |
| cbx33 | that's written in python isn't it? | 05:51 |
| wwoods | shawarma: ah, okay. I think I get it. | 05:51 |
| mvo | cbx33: oh, you talk about the python-bindings, no u-n is written in C (for memory effiecency reasons) | 05:51 |
| wwoods | so there's nothing intrinsic about an installed package that tells you whether or not that package came from an 'official' repo. | 05:52 |
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| shawarma | wwoods: In short: If you get packages from the repository (and trust gnupg and the ubuntu folks) you can trust the packages. | 05:52 |
| cbx33 | ahhh | 05:52 |
| shawarma | wwoods: If you get them individually from elsewhere, you shouldn't trust them. | 05:52 |
| cbx33 | so it could be the python binding don't work yet? | 05:52 |
| cbx33 | that's a kick in the pants | 05:52 |
| shawarma | wwoods: Oh, sure there is. | 05:52 |
| wwoods | (where "official" means "from a trusted repo", I suppose) | 05:52 |
| shawarma | wwoods: Gimme a sec. | 05:52 |
| mvo | cbx33: it could be that the python binding do have a bug, yes. aren't there tests in the python bindings package for this? | 05:53 |
| cbx33 | not sure | 05:53 |
| cbx33 | but it looks like a bug cos the c code does exactly what I would do | 05:53 |
| cbx33 | I'll file a bug later | 05:53 |
| cbx33 | ;) | 05:53 |
| wwoods | basically I'm trying to figure out why apport just checks to see if the string 'Ubuntu' is in the origins | 05:53 |
| cbx33 | thanks mvo | 05:53 |
| wwoods | instead of checking, like, keys or hashes or something | 05:53 |
| pitti | wwoods: oh, does it? | 05:54 |
| pitti | wwoods: it should check lsb_release | 05:55 |
| wwoods | pitti: yeah, it does | 05:55 |
| pitti | so it does, jsut checked | 05:55 |
| wwoods | but still, that's just a string match against a package tag - anyone could lie and say their package is from the 'Fedora' distribution | 05:55 |
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| pitti | wwoods: in Ubuntu that Origin: tag is taken from python-apt which in turn takes it from the Release files on the archive | 05:56 |
| pitti | wwoods: so it's reasonably reliable | 05:56 |
| pitti | wwoods: also, it's not meant to be foolproof | 05:56 |
| pitti | wwoods: the use case was that we ship some stuff in dapper-commercial, for example opera | 05:56 |
| pitti | wwoods: and when that crashed, users got a 404 since opera is not a product in LP | 05:56 |
| pitti | since it's not an actual Ubuntu package | 05:56 |
| wwoods | pitti: gotcha. Yeah, we generally use the GPG signatures to determine whether a package is genuine or not | 05:57 |
| wwoods | since our packages will be signed with one of our keys | 05:57 |
| pitti | wwoods: I'm fine with making that interface more abstract | 05:57 |
| pitti | wwoods: get_origins(self, package) -> is_distro_package(self, package) | 05:58 |
| wwoods | yeah, that'd work nicely.. dunno if you use get_origins elsewhere though | 05:58 |
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| pitti | wwoods: no, I don't | 05:58 |
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| pitti | wwoods: I just added that function a few days ago to clean up after some quick hacks I had to do for the feisty release | 05:59 |
| cprov | pitti: do you know how to define a fqdn with PORT in dput config ? | 05:59 |
| wwoods | is_distro_package would probably be a good way to abstract that | 05:59 |
| pitti | cprov: hm, no; just appending ':port' to the host doesn't work? | 05:59 |
| cprov | pitti: as in "foobar:2121" ? no, it doesn't work. | 06:00 |
| pitti | wwoods: added to TODO | 06:01 |
| pitti | wwoods: can we talk in ~ 1 hour? I need to grab some food | 06:01 |
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| wwoods | pitti: sure | 06:04 |
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| thekorn | cbx33: set_icon_from_pixbuf is working for me in feisty | 06:09 |
| cbx33 | thekorn, in python? | 06:10 |
| cbx33 | if so, got some example code? | 06:11 |
| thekorn | cbx33: yes, wait a second | 06:12 |
| cbx33 | thanky ou | 06:12 |
| thekorn | cbx33: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18974/ | 06:13 |
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| thekorn | cbx33: you don't need that win = ... | 06:14 |
| cbx33 | thekorn you rock | 06:14 |
| cbx33 | my problem was in the docs, it looks like the icon parameter for the initialisation was required | 06:15 |
| cbx33 | i thought i could overwrite it later with set icon from file | 06:15 |
| cbx33 | thanks so much | 06:15 |
| cbx33 | VCSFrenzy gets custom icons ;) | 06:15 |
| thekorn | cbx33: VCSFrenzy rocks! | 06:16 |
| popey | you cbx33 | 06:17 |
| popey | er | 06:17 |
| popey | -u | 06:17 |
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| cbx33 | thekorn, it rocks even more now ;) | 06:18 |
| cbx33 | hi popey | 06:18 |
| cbx33 | hang on lemme pm you | 06:18 |
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| vciaglia | hi | 06:24 |
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| cbx33 | whoops kill my x server | 06:35 |
| kwah | How one can change mount options for automounted devices like flash-cards? | 06:35 |
| jdong | lol | 06:35 |
| jdong | kwah: /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ IIRC | 06:36 |
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| pitti | wwoods: I'm back for a bit | 06:52 |
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| pitti | wwoods: I committed that change and pushed, should be on LP in a few minutes | 07:16 |
| wwoods | pitti: awesome! thanks. I just finished up that meeting and I need to grab some lunch but I'll be back in a bit | 07:17 |
| pitti | wwoods: hm, I need to leave now, sorry | 07:17 |
| pitti | wwoods: can you mail me about remaining questions and issues? | 07:17 |
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| wwoods | pitti: will do | 07:21 |
| wwoods | doh | 07:21 |
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| Treenaks | iwj: hmm.. good idea | 08:59 |
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| xxxxx1 | hi all. | 09:18 |
| xxxxx1 | i've built a custom kernel | 09:18 |
| xxxxx1 | can i replace linux-libc-dev ? | 09:18 |
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| ajmitch | morning all | 10:14 |
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| mjunx | hey guys, I've got a suggestion/question | 10:28 |
| mjunx | would it be feasible if all the packages in ubuntu were maintained as bzr branches so that other people can easily submit branches on launchpad for fixes? | 10:29 |
| mjunx | one particular situation I'm thinking of is an easier way for people to write documentation or modify it from the base translation | 10:30 |
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| ash211_ | mjunx: sounds like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoMoreSourcePackages | 10:33 |
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| pygi | hi folks | 10:34 |
| mjunx | ash211, that sounds like a GREAT idea! I love it | 10:35 |
| ash211 | subscribe to the spec and propose it to the coming UDS then | 10:35 |
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| mjunx | hmm, I'm not an official developer here or anything... | 10:36 |
| ash211 | me neither, I've just heard that proposal thrown around before | 10:37 |
| mjunx | this developer summit you speak of, is it a real life meeting? if so, where does it take place? I'm a college student with like no job and stuff | 10:40 |
| geser | yes, it's an offline meeting :), try Seville, Spain as location | 10:43 |
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| mjunx | hmm, quite a bit far from chicago :/ | 10:52 |
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| ajmitch | yes, quite a way from NZ too | 10:52 |
| ajmitch | hi doko | 10:53 |
| doko | ajmitch: good morning | 10:53 |
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| JohnFlux | mjunx: but wouldn't it be better to have the documentation etc pushed upstream? | 10:56 |
| mjunx | JohnFlux, yes, but when you wait for over a month for that to happen, it gets kinda annoying... | 10:57 |
| JohnFlux | yeah, but hmm | 10:57 |
| JohnFlux | it's already a pain that launchpad has its own bug system | 10:58 |
| JohnFlux | as a kde developer I often don't see bug reports filed just in ubuntu's system and not upstream | 10:58 |
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| JohnFlux | having a 2nd source tree with its own patches might get annoying | 10:59 |
| seb128 | JohnFlux: you can subscribe on a package in launchpad | 10:59 |
| JohnFlux | seb128: but I can't close the bugs etc | 11:00 |
| mjunx | JohnFlux, I've reported kde bugs to launchpad only because sometimes I really think that ubuntu might have been the ones who screwed it up, and if not, the maintainer should know to forward the bug | 11:00 |
| JohnFlux | mjunx: yeah | 11:01 |
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| JohnFlux | I'm not saying it's a big problem, but the majority of kde developers don't have a launchpad account etc | 11:01 |
| seb128 | JohnFlux: ask on #ubuntu-bugs to get bug triage rights | 11:01 |
| mjunx | JohnFlux, you can join the bugsquad team and then you can close bugs and stuff | 11:01 |
| seb128 | JohnFlux: users are usually asked to report the bug at the distribution level because it might be due to a distro patch or something | 11:02 |
| seb128 | JohnFlux: we lack manpower to send everything upstream then though | 11:03 |
| === JohnFlux nods | ||
| JohnFlux | I do understand | 11:03 |
| seb128 | JohnFlux: you are welcome to subscribe to the package on launchpad if you want to help there or read bugs that are not sent upstream | 11:03 |
| JohnFlux | and kde does the same thing anyway - we have imported versions from other projects | 11:03 |
| JohnFlux | our own modified copy of qt, and so on | 11:03 |
| manchicken_ | We do a pretty good job sending KDE stuff back upstream. | 11:04 |
| manchicken_ | But most of us Kubuntu folks are also KDE folks as well. | 11:05 |
| === JohnFlux nods | ||
| JohnFlux | it would be nice to have launchpad opensourced etc and then have kde etc use it :-) | 11:05 |
| manchicken_ | I'm not as much of a big KDE contributor though. A handful of stuff here and there, but the big players seem to be involved. | 11:05 |
| JohnFlux | but there's an argument for another day heh | 11:05 |
| JohnFlux | yeah | 11:05 |
| manchicken_ | launchpad isn't proprietary. It's custom software. It's not released. | 11:05 |
| manchicken_ | And KDE could use launchpad. | 11:06 |
| manchicken_ | It's pretty easy to register things on launchpad. | 11:06 |
| manchicken_ | It's just that KDE has its own thing going on. | 11:06 |
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| manchicken_ | KDE has been around for a while, and they've already got what they like pretty well defined. | 11:06 |
| JohnFlux | heh, nah | 11:06 |
| JohnFlux | we've changed a lot of things | 11:07 |
| JohnFlux | it wouldn't be a biggie to change the bug tracking system as well | 11:07 |
| manchicken_ | If KDE wanted to do launchpad, it's really quite simple to do so. | 11:07 |
| JohnFlux | not politically | 11:07 |
| JohnFlux | :-) | 11:07 |
| manchicken_ | What do you mean? | 11:08 |
| mjunx | I like how they have a link to their "websvn", but instead they use viewcvs or something | 11:08 |
| mjunx | I mean, I am/was a developer for websvn, and it would have been awesome to get feedback like that from a project with commits in the 6 digits | 11:08 |
| JohnFlux | personally, I still remember what happened with the linux kernel and it relying on a proprietary revision control system | 11:08 |
| manchicken_ | Launchpad is a service provided by custom software running on privately owned servers. | 11:08 |
| manchicken_ | JohnFlux: bzr isn't proprietary. | 11:08 |
| JohnFlux | it wasn't an exact analogy :-) | 11:09 |
| JohnFlux | but in reference to using launchpad | 11:09 |
| mjunx | I like subversion more than bzr, but that's because I don't have any experience with bzr ;p | 11:09 |
| manchicken_ | Launchpad isn't proprietary | 11:09 |
| JohnFlux | i don't understand how you can say it's not proprietary | 11:09 |
| manchicken_ | It's not distributed software. It's custom software running on managed servers. | 11:09 |
| seb128 | it is for the moment | 11:10 |
| manchicken_ | If it's not distributed, it's not licensed, it's not proprietary. | 11:10 |
| seb128 | JohnFlux: you can get back any data you put it though so it's doesn't enclose you | 11:10 |
| manchicken_ | Even RMS agreed with me on that when he visited Chicago not too longago. | 11:10 |
| JohnFlux | not sure I agree with that definition heh | 11:10 |
| JohnFlux | anyway, I'm sure the kde guys would want to have it running on their own systems | 11:10 |
| manchicken_ | Software that is only being used on servers you own and is not distributed is by every definition Free Software. | 11:11 |
| manchicken_ | And bzr can be run on their own systems. | 11:11 |
| manchicken_ | You can use bzr with any host that supports sftp. | 11:11 |
| JohnFlux | but not launchpad | 11:11 |
| JohnFlux | can't you buy launchpad btw? | 11:11 |
| manchicken_ | Launchpad is a web site, not a piece of software. | 11:11 |
| JohnFlux | I thought I saw canonical selling it or something | 11:12 |
| JohnFlux | #define launchpad the software that runs launchpad | 11:12 |
| JohnFlux | :P | 11:12 |
| manchicken_ | You're merely requesting content from their HTTP servers. | 11:12 |
| JohnFlux | anyway, it would be nice to have launchpad released and open sourced :-) | 11:14 |
| JohnFlux | if that happened, I can see kde seriously considering using it | 11:14 |
| manchicken_ | And I'm having a hard time finding anything that would lead me to believe that Launchpad is distributed in any way. | 11:14 |
| manchicken_ | It would be nice to have Launchpad released as free software, yes. But it is not by any definition that I can see non-free software. | 11:14 |
| manchicken_ | Not any more than google is non-free software | 11:15 |
| thom | #ubuntu-offtopic | 11:15 |
| ion_ | apt-get install googled | 11:15 |
| manchicken_ | Nice. | 11:15 |
| manchicken_ | apt-get install fsf.org | 11:15 |
| JohnFlux | manchicken_: can you imagine ubuntu relying on 3rd party servers for its bug tracking? | 11:16 |
| JohnFlux | manchicken_: where it has no control over them, and no way of running the service itself etc | 11:17 |
| JohnFlux | manchicken_: it's just not a wise idea | 11:17 |
| manchicken_ | JohnFlux: Nope. I can't. That's why they wrote their own. | 11:17 |
| bhale | this isnt in the scope of the topic | 11:17 |
| === JohnFlux nods | ||
| bhale | #ubuntu-offtopic | 11:17 |
| JohnFlux | bhale: it's about ubuntu development. how much more on topic can you get? | 11:18 |
| bhale | JohnFlux: been asked once. | 11:18 |
| JohnFlux | it was a silly request | 11:18 |
| thom | it's not anything to do with the technical development of the ubuntu distribution | 11:18 |
| JohnFlux | not distribution, but development | 11:18 |
| bhale | "ubuntu development" in this context is very specific to development of packages and features of the open distro | 11:18 |
| JohnFlux | this is ubuntu-devel not ubuntu-distribution | 11:19 |
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| thom | JohnFlux: if you wish to talk about launchpad, try #launchpad. or #ubuntu-offtopic | 11:19 |
| manchicken_ | JohnFlux: I agree that this isn't one of those things where we clearly are off-topic, but if it's bothering/annoying/irritating folks, I don't think it'd be too much to ask for us to -offtopic it. | 11:19 |
| thom | you are not on-topic in this channel | 11:19 |
| mjunx | it started off as on-topic ;) | 11:21 |
| sharms | JohnFlux: #ubuntu-offtopic | 11:27 |
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