=== lapo_ [n=lapo@host75-158-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:30] hi === UbuntuStats [n=IRCStats@213.13.241.134] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitLappy [n=steve-o@adsl-65-69-154-217.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === troy_s [n=aphorism@d206-116-6-170.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitMonkey [n=stephen@adsl-65-69-154-217.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === ubotu [n=ubotu@ubuntu/bot/ubotu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === mapez [n=mapez@69-11-91-224.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitLappy [n=steve-o@67.64.145.8] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitMonkey [n=stephen@67.64.145.8] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitMonkey_ [n=stephen@67-64-144-90.dialup.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === BHSPitLappy_ [n=steve-o@67-64-144-90.dialup.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === adastra23 [n=adastra2@ip24-255-134-16.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === adastra23 [n=adastra2@ip24-255-134-16.ks.ks.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === adastra23 [n=adastra2@ip24-255-134-16.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === adastra23 [n=adastra2@ip24-255-134-16.ks.ks.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === illern [n=illern@c83-252-239-167.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@81.185.36.249] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === TheSheep [n=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:32] troy_s: ping === meatballhat [n=dbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:59] http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/xgl-login.ogg <--- we need to steal some ideas from SuSE ;P === TheSheep [i=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === TheSheep [i=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === dborg [n=daniel@e182048113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:07] darkmatter: anything new on MorningGlory? [05:11] not yet.. just working on it now [05:11] :) === BHSPitMonkey [n=stephen@67.64.144.90] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h-83-140-83-24.ip.rixbredband.se] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === TheSheep [i=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace_ [n=bersace@did75-13-82-243-217-90.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === ra21vi [n=ra21vi@122.160.60.212] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:21] TheSheep: Pong! [06:27] nothlit: are you there? [06:28] greets ra21vi [06:29] good to see you discussing some work on the community theme -- that's you correct? [06:29] darkmatter: sabdfl is completely petrified of 'new' design. [06:29] TheSheep: ping [06:30] yup, [06:30] troy_s: you too interested in that [06:30] darkmatter: *sigh* that wallpaper on novel's is pretty petrified too. lol. [06:31] ra21vi: I have been for a while, but I am hoping that more community members get out and actually start pushing the boulder up the hill by providing some brainstorming material etc. [06:32] troy_s: actually I am not a good artists, its what myself tells me :] but I do visualize and analyze things to some par [06:32] thats why I am interested do some research over new theme... [06:32] troy_s: will be back in 10 mins.. :| [06:46] troy_s: where are you? country [06:47] Canada. [06:49] studying [06:58] troy_s, lol [06:58] darkmatter: Its true man! [06:58] darkmatter: I have discussed it with him at relative length. [06:58] darkmatter: He simply doesn't get it. [06:58] at _all_ [06:59] darkmatter: Further, as soon as you add in a colour to a design you get comments "I think the xxx color is confusing the palette" -- end quote. [06:59] darkmatter: There is a complete VOID of knowledge, a complete VOID of status regarding art and design (its rather an afterthought or add - on), and a complete VOID of any sort of fundamental theory / approach. [07:00] aye [07:00] To be honest however, it isn't like there are many distros that get it. [07:00] darkmatter: Arguably there is ONE that is being pushed via the brain of D. Fong. [07:01] oh? [07:01] darkmatter: Novell's is equally awful - not only blue, but nasty mundane. [07:01] darkmatter: Yeah the Fedora work. Against the odds, she is showing the community how it _must_ be approached. [07:02] darkmatter: Better yet, she documented her process -- which is a step towards educating the buffoonary. [07:03] cool [07:09] troy_s: have you read any Paul Graham's essays? [07:09] TheSheep: Negative. [07:09] TheSheep: Have you browsed that design-emotion site? There are some amazing interviews on there -- from Frogdesign to BMW etc. [07:09] http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html [07:10] troy_s: they mostly sound like "advertise with us, we will make you sell" :/ [07:10] troy_s: not my area of interests [07:11] troy_s: and there is a lot of "what we can do for you if you pay us" and none "how we actually do it" [07:13] There is an interesting quotation in there: [07:13] The place to fight design wars is in new markets, where no one has yet managed to establish any fortifications. That's where you can win big by taking the bold approach to design, and having the same people both design and implement the product. Microsoft themselves did this at the start. So did Apple. And Hewlett-Packard. I suspect almost every successful startup has. [07:14] Like painting, most software is intended for a human audience. And so hackers, like painters, must have empathy to do really great work. You have to be able to see things from the user's point of view. [07:14] Boy, was I wrong. It turns out that looking at things from other people's point of view is practically the secret of success. It doesn't necessarily mean being self-sacrificing. Far from it. Understanding how someone else sees things doesn't imply that you'll act in his interest; in some situations-- in war, for example-- you want to do exactly the opposite. [07:16] know your enemy [08:44] TheSheep: Was there a reason you pulled that article up? [08:45] TheSheep: That site isn't great in terms of its own content (design emotion) but the articles are top shelf. [08:45] TheSheep: The interviews with designers that are pretty hard to get interviews with. === ra21vi [n=ra21vi@122.162.115.116] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:02] so whats going on [09:04] troy_s: sorry, commuting :) [09:04] troy_s: well, I hit these essays myself recently, and I thought it's somehow related to what you're interested in [09:05] troy_s: especially http://www.paulgraham.com/taste.html [09:09] TheSheep: Yes he is clueless on that count. [09:09] TheSheep: I can't even begin to start reading something when someone dismisses relativism as 'fashionable' [09:09] :) [09:09] TheSheep: It is the underlying structure that you _must_ deal with and _must_ build upon. [09:10] troy_s: scroll up and read the snippet you just pasted ;) [09:10] TheSheep: If we _accept_ relativism, we can begin to do solid design consideration for the specific needs of particular group. [09:10] TheSheep: Missing it... the 'boy was i wrong' quote? [09:10] troy_s: the guy may be wrong, but he basically puts into words the philosophy and approach of the hackerdom :) [09:11] True enough. [09:12] Have you people read the MacOSX User Interface design guide? [09:12] troy_s: ^ [09:12] TheSheep: He certainly has an ability to phrase things in different analogous light. [09:12] ra21vi: Yes. [09:12] troy_s: pretty informative, right [09:12] ra21vi: And the Windows ones... [09:12] ra21vi: hardly -- it's all concerned about the spacing of buttons :/ [09:12] ra21vi: Informative is one thing... I think that the internal review process at Apple is more on point than the guide can be to outside developers. [09:13] TheSheep: Hey I like that! [09:13] TheSheep: That is a design blueprint. [09:13] lol [09:13] troy_s: Windows guide, I could not find that, also, There is something good in windows UI, else much things are macs [09:13] ra21vi: the vista user experience guidelines it's called [09:13] are we in the process of reinventing the wheel [09:13] ra21vi: http://ui.sheep.art.pl/Human_Interface_Guidelines [09:14] vista's guidelines are actually pretty good [09:14] shame they provide the real solutions from vista as "don't do that" examples %) [09:14] TheSheep: I will read that, then would comment anythign [09:14] ra21vi: No. That assumes the 'wheel' works and is complete... [09:15] ra21vi: Computers, in the desktop sense have only been around a few decads. [09:15] decades... [09:15] ra21vi: In terms of design, we can't cite a design pattern as we can in automobiles for example, which have a very clear aesthetic lineage now... [09:15] ra21vi: If you look to automobiles in the first part of their existence, they were very much the same issues at hand that we are discussing now... [09:15] ra21vi: Many preferred 'just make it go' approach [09:15] ra21vi: Then empires were built on top of aesthetic driven design. [09:16] Well UI isn't set in stone--it still evolving [09:16] ra21vi: And even more so, distinct classes of aesthetic driven design -- for example -- look to the diversity that Toyota or Honda has provided to their users... [09:16] nothlit: Exactly. [09:16] right [09:16] ra21vi: For example, the Pilot has a very very very specific audience [09:16] but you evolve with somethign as base [09:16] ra21vi: We have our base -- it is shit unfortunately. [09:16] troy_s: ever seen the models of Toyota and Honda produced for the japanese market? :) [09:17] troy_s: creeping featuritis [09:17] ra21vi: We evolve from what we start as. As of now, it is completely riddled with a mentality that is legacy of the wonderful and talented hardcore software coders. [09:17] TheSheep: It is interesting though, that again, that appeals to that market. [09:17] dont confuse me with these long route examples [09:17] TheSheep: again, the AUDIENCE governs all. [09:17] ok, here is a quick question... [09:18] tell the keywords you find Vista UI, Windows XP UI, and Apple UI [09:18] troy_s: I think that only coders and hackers actually want computers -- the rest is just after "smart" tv/vcr, e-mail, wwww, etc. [09:18] troy_s: and such devices begin to appear [09:18] TheSheep: If we were able to acutely distinguish YOUR aesthetic, we could probably design something that is perfect for you that you would love. This is all 'duh' to you however :) [09:19] no keywords, [09:19] lol [09:19] TheSheep: My personal belief is that bloody operating systems should learn a thing or two from TV/VCR land. [09:19] TheSheep: well imo, its leading more to form factors than function, with technology, function can be fluid. [09:19] TheSheep: What worked, what doesn't. [09:19] I actually cann't get what you people are behind making [09:19] nothlit: Form/Function is great -- but remember -- a very FUNCTIONAL aspect is aesthetics. [09:20] ra21vi: You would need to have inside looks into the design process [09:20] ra21vi: You don't get them coming out and saying those sorts of things -- [09:20] ra21vi: For example, what is Vista? [09:20] hmm [09:20] beautiful :) [09:20] ra21vi: Pretty simple that 'beautiful' was a keyword [09:20] ok let me explain Vista... [09:20] troy_s: as in form factors, (ie size,portability,screen size,ergonomics) vs internet,phone,tv,etc [09:20] ra21vi: EVERYTHING is steered from it... look at the NAME, look at the DEFAULT WALLPAPER, [09:20] that is a communicative goal. [09:20] troy_s: a line of products and services :) [09:21] TheSheep: lol... yes hidden behind the illusion they want you to see. [09:21] ra21vi: For example, take even the more 'abstract' wallpaper in vista [09:21] a resourse hungry, slow but intelligent towards Users experince (as they were said ot develop), much beutiful and evolved OS with centralized everything, and people o\know where the most of the things are [09:21] notice the palette? the shafts of light? [09:21] troy_s: actually more services than products [09:21] yep -- taken straight out of underwater photography. [09:22] ra21vi: In the end, computer operating systems seem to think they are exempt from the traditional knowledge of art and design. This is simply not the case. [09:22] so which design principals you apply here [09:22] ra21vi: So if we go back to the basics, you find that communication and audience generally govern all. [09:22] Who are you communicating TO? [09:22] WHAT are you communicating? [09:22] That is about as simple as it gets. [09:22] troy_s: there is one small point [09:23] and arguably, those two questions flow through every art movement in history. [09:23] ra21vi: I don't understand your question. [09:23] TheSheep: Go. [09:23] you can't decide what people like, ok, there is variety in likes and dislikes, therefore there are several music types, saveral other intefaces, clothers [09:23] troy_s: FSF was created exactly for the purpose to fight and break this way of doing business [09:23] ra21vi: Great. So you acknowledge point 1 of art and design. [09:23] troy_s: whole GPL is to fight "market" [09:24] ra21vi: That is exactly my point -- you need to realize that your art and design will be LIKED and DISLIKED. [09:24] that said, you can crank it up a notch and turn those into LOVED and HATED [09:24] which is probably closer to where Apple is... when you start dealing with high end home design for example, it gets VERY polemical. [09:24] love and hate are bad for usablility but good for business [09:24] or architecture for that matter. [09:24] TheSheep: Good for usability too. [09:25] you have to find the things which everypeople (means most of people) expect (from their past experinces) and then evolve your designs from that common things' [09:25] the best interfaces are so boring tha they are not even noticed [09:25] TheSheep: Users want interfaces that are "aesthetically" the way they want. [09:25] ra21vi: Disagree. [09:25] TheSheep: like [09:25] troy_s: what users want and what is good for usability are two totally distincts things [09:25] ra21vi: Do a little research into the history of art and how what is 'beautiful' changes [09:25] troy_s: where? at common users point [09:26] ok let me know if you like http://ra21vi.googlepages.com [09:26] TheSheep: In the end, one could argue that the most lauded computer operating system in that regard is Apple -- and it is LOVED by its users. It is completely daft to some however. [09:26] ra21vi: well i think this is where traditional notions of demographics comes into play [09:26] ra21vi: and why they are utilized just about everywhere. [09:26] troy_s: agree, apple has best thing in pocket (design and art) [09:26] ra21vi: What is that? [09:27] troy_s: just look at the design and colors, [09:27] ra21vi: But the thing that a lot of people are unwilling to see is that Apple is all about aesthetics and aesthetic choices. [09:27] ra21vi: increase letter spacing in these small-caps titles [09:27] ra21vi: The colors are completely relative... hell the 'gel' look is dated now. [09:27] etc. [09:28] ra21vi: The trick is to hire the minds that specialize in paying attention to trends / context / etc. [09:28] troy_s: TheSheep : don't expect much in just 8hrs work [09:28] ra21vi: What is that? [09:28] Apple is about ease of use and product design [09:28] ra21vi: I think it is quite good actually, I just don't know what it is. [09:28] nothlit: For a particular audience. [09:28] ;) [09:29] ra21vi: that's simple letter-spacing: 0.05em or something like that [09:29] troy_s: oh, that is nothing, a project for my university, a website centred arounf the google map and information relative to universtiy [09:29] nothlit: Rephrased -- Apple is about ease of use for a mature north american audience. [09:29] and those who want to be "mature" [09:30] nothlit: In fact, I can guarantee that their audience is very clearly mapped out with age and the rest of it. [09:30] nothlit: i forgot whats the name of the theme you developed? [09:30] nothlit: True enough. [09:31] troy_s: ease of learning and exploration may be culture-dependent, same aestetics, but all people are build the same and have similar congnitive processes -- so the underlying structure can be optimized for general audience [09:31] ra21vi: To which thing are you referring? [09:31] TheSheep: Theoretically yes. That has been proven wrong regarding aesthetic value judgements however -- consider the learning of Phi as expressed during the Ren and compare it to the aesthetics issued in certain regions. [09:31] TheSheep: So the old nurture versus nature argument pops up again. [09:32] ra21vi: .? "CommunityTheme" ? lol? [09:32] ra21vi: ubun2 ? [09:32] troy_s: using light color as base and have very light background with good contrast objects over it in theme and all other things [09:32] TheSheep: Arguably, I would LOVE to believe that, but I can't based on my knowledge or research. [09:32] ra21vi: someone else made 'OranSun', is that what you're talking about? [09:32] nothlit: yup, i thought its your :| [09:33] troy_s: well, you come from the marketing-driven end :) [09:33] troy_s: there user *decissions* mean more [09:33] ra21vi: Functionally you make a very distinct choice when you go into contrast for wallpapers -- you lose your work on the desktop in icons etc, but you can more expressively communicate with higher contrast. Just depends on what you set out on your plate as an audience. === nothlit is 'nothlit', not 'Lizardking' lol [09:33] TheSheep: Actually, no... I come from the artsty farsty part. [09:33] TheSheep: Meaning that there is no such thing as universal anywhere. [09:33] TheSheep: no bro, its the thing that, if you give much complex colors filling the screen, it would attract some, and for only little time [09:33] TheSheep: It is entirely relatavistic -- and embracing that is no shortcoming. [09:34] troy_s: so you don't agree with what Donald Norman wrote in The Design of Everyday Things? [09:34] TheSheep: relativity often overlooks, however, Context [09:34] TheSheep: Which particular statement out of that? [09:34] ra21vi: That is a broad sweeping statement. I assure you it is false. [09:35] troy_s: well, he's giving a number of universal patterns for usable design, based on the human thought process and perception [09:35] troy_s: lol, then I am disqualified [09:35] ra21vi: When choosing colours, you have about three elements to consider: Context, Culture, and Communication. [09:35] troy_s: I'd say he suggests that they are meant to make the design generally better, no matter the audience [09:35] TheSheep: Yes, it just doesn't hold up in reality. [09:36] TheSheep: Again, some cultures in Africa for example, compose in a circular format. [09:36] whats the Global culture you know>? there is many.. cant serve all [09:36] (again related to all sorts of thigns that are specific to their culture) [09:36] ra21vi: Better get used to it. [09:36] ra21vi: There is no Global Culture. [09:36] ra21vi: That's that bullshit utopian crap that you read in blogs. [09:36] troy_s: means? [09:36] troy_s: well, if you can just *see* how somethng works, you don't need cultural assumptions and constraints to operate it [09:37] TheSheep: Aesthetically, it simply doesn't hold up. Hell look at portraiture from prior to the ren -- look at the compositional symmetry versus assymetrical [09:37] TheSheep: Yes... but what I am suggesting is that EVEN if you say all humans have FIVE fingers on each hand, it doesn't IMPLY that they all will do the same things with them. [09:37] troy_s: I'm not talking about aestetics here, I mean about ussing the thing [09:37] TheSheep: And a good chunk of that is 'what they know' [09:37] TheSheep: Being culture / environment [09:38] TheSheep: If it applies to aesthetics, it also applies to using -- they are synonymous. [09:38] TheSheep: Again, I am a pretty big beliver in miller's work on magic 7 [09:38] TheSheep: But I am also quite willing to acknowledge that there is probably a culture that is an exception to that 'rule' [09:39] ra21vi: Meaning that there is NO such creature as 'perfect' in any shape. [09:39] Something can be very aethetically appealing without being functional or usable... [09:39] nothlit: And in fact, being aesthetically appealing [09:39] nothlit: Actually influences usability [09:39] a little [09:39] nothlit: It is called the 'Aesthetic Usability Effect' as a general term [09:39] TheSheep: A _lot_ [09:39] I can't remember who coined it... [09:39] (again probalby north american based too -- so take with caution) [09:40] let me dig out a reference [09:40] "Aesthetic designs are perceived as easier to use than less-aesthetic designs." [09:40] see [09:41] "Apparent Usability vs. Inherent Usability: Experimental Analysis on the Determinants of the Apparent Usabililty" by [09:41] Masaaki Kurosu and Kaori Kashimura CHI '95 [09:41] Conference Companion, 1995, p. 292-293 [09:41] phew [09:41] perception, of course, but with continued use--its factor is diminished [09:41] nothlit: Disagree... look to apple. [09:41] lol [09:41] Apple is all about aesthetic. [09:42] and a good deal of the usability foobardom in there is 'Wow its apple' [09:42] It creates an atmosphere where people look over the smaller details that might not work, and see the bigger picture. [09:42] see [09:42] ok guys I can't understand whats goingon really... pretty confusing to me [09:43] but what I can say, here it is... [09:43] "Emotion and Design: Attractive Things Work Better" by Donald Norman, www.jnd.org, 2002 if it is still up [09:43] troy_s: it's more about emotions than aestetics themselves, although they affect emotions greatly [09:43] troy_s: well for me anyways--as time goes on i only look at it as a tool--and in fact aesthetics can sometimes decrease my productivity === lapo_ [n=lapo@host75-158-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:43] troy_s: i end up staring at my patched antialiased fonts instead of using the ui :) [09:43] nothlit: Then it isn't aesthetically appealing to you ! [09:43] lol [09:43] hi [09:43] nothlit: tool are aestetic too, it depends on how much you know about them. LISP *is8 beautiful [09:43] nothlit: Again, never mistake aesthetics -- if you like it -- it is aesthetically pleasing. [09:44] TheSheep: I would agree... chairs can be too. === lapo_ is now known as lapo [09:44] greets lapo [09:44] troy_s: a monkey wrench can be beautiful :) [09:44] The overall point is that there is NO such creature as 'beautiful' [09:44] It is lol--but I don't see it anymore, I shift behaviors with repetitive use [09:44] hey troy_s [09:44] except when examined in terms of context and culture. [09:44] nothlit: Which is exactly why aesthetics evolve. [09:45] Even a most precursory examination of art trends (say art 101 style thinking) [09:45] would illuminate that. [09:45] troy_s: I want to show you a certain icon design, that's totally unaestetic and unusable, yet affects emotion positively [09:45] TheSheep: sure--but i'm talking about the visuals rather than the structure [09:45] TheSheep: Go [09:45] TheSheep: Love to see it. [09:45] oh [09:45] TheSheep: Although arguably, EVERYTHING has an aesthetic component. [09:45] the stripy theme? [09:45] i d/led that lol [09:45] ra21vi: What were you going to see? [09:45] nothlit: DId you see that lith icon set I posted ages ago? [09:45] Very stylized. [09:46] Very shiek. [09:46] sheik even. [09:46] lol === troy_s wonders if sheiks use the word 'sheik' lol... [09:46] troy_s: http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/Schermata.png [09:46] i was thinking of sticking to real environment, creating real objects (look wise) and giving the feel of depth and sharpness in edges, [09:47] ra21vi: Probably need a sample [09:47] TheSheep: woah, what's that junk?! :-) [09:47] ra21vi: I would put it on the scrapbook [09:47] lapo: hehe [09:47] I read and have tested it that when there is no much contrast and sharpness in objects, it creates strain to eyes and aesthetic objects soon loses its all things [09:47] Wow... talk about strange lol. [09:47] troy_s: no i don't think so [09:47] ra21vi: As soon as I read eye 'strain' I vomit. [09:47] troy_s: see, it's funny [09:47] shiek? not chic? [09:48] nothlit: Yeah weird eh? [09:48] http://www.i4designmagazine.com/events.php [09:48] read the first line [09:48] TheSheep: Not exactly [09:48] your eyes are better than my [09:48] TheSheep: For one, the first thing I read out of those icons is that they are for the gay crowd [09:49] TheSheep: Deadly serious -- as the rainbow is iconographic of the queer crowd. Again, context! [09:49] :) [09:49] troy_s: I have severa gay friends and I can assure you their tastes are nothing like that [09:49] erm probably more culture in that case. [09:49] i think of the second definition lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik :) [09:49] TheSheep: I have many too... but I see that icon set more as icon -- motif through a colour pattern. [09:50] nothlit: Strange though eh? [09:50] troy_s: I see it as a gag :) [09:50] chic and sheik [09:50] lol [09:50] TheSheep: It still communicates. [09:50] TheSheep: Which is the entire point... [09:50] of course [09:51] really? i thought of young girls who want rainbows and pretty colours and pink everywhere [09:51] TheSheep, one can also see it as "ARRRGGHHH! MY EYES!" :P [09:51] nothlit: Its true -- I have one! [09:51] in this aspect it's much better than the default gnome theme :) [09:51] TheSheep: btw folder-saved-search.svg is my favorite :P [09:51] darkmatter: My daughter would disagree with you to the death. [09:51] lol [09:51] TheSheep: WOOT [09:51] nothlit: I love my little ponny with long hair waaah! ;) [09:51] TheSheep: MyLittle Ponies are gifted with their ability to suck them in, true. [09:52] TheSheep: But I can almost assure you she would love those icons. [09:52] TheSheep: I read a very good article on children aesthetic values [09:52] troy_s: wonder why they don't make goth little ponies ;) [09:52] TheSheep: It basically was predicated on the notion that children haven't exactly been exposed to many different aesthetic ranges, so their idea of 'difference' is built on dramatic degrees. [09:53] Hence the tendency for children to fall prey to the primary colour motifs. [09:53] TheSheep: Very interesting stuffs. [09:53] makes sense [09:53] then again, anything does ;) [09:53] TheSheep: Woo the LSD! [09:53] troy_s: peace brother [09:53] TheSheep: Is it coincidence that Steve Jobs considers one of the most valuable things he has ever done to be LSD? [09:53] TheSheep: I THINK NOT [09:53] lol [09:53] lmao [09:54] nothlit: Aim high on the creativity target. [09:54] I rememeber that comparison of webs spiders make after iniecting them with LSD and caffeine [09:54] zzzz [09:54] ok, going to sleep... [09:55] bye [09:55] ra21vi: bye === ra21vi [n=ra21vi@122.162.115.116] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] [09:55] ok guys I can't understand whats goingon really... pretty confusing to me [09:55] haha [09:55] stream of consciousness :) [09:55] Yep. [09:55] sink or swim [09:55] The webs are bloody cool. [09:55] LSD...interesting, I have a manual somewhere on how to make it :-) [09:55] lol. [09:56] lapo its pretty easy if you extract it from morning glory seeds or hawwain woodrose [09:56] fuck my spelling sucks ass. [09:56] lol [09:56] wtf is that?! [09:56] troy_s: there was some suggestion to compare the spiders to the modern programmers mostly only living off coffee and cola ;) [09:56] LOL [09:56] eheh [09:56] and webs to the programs they make [09:56] that caffeine and cola thing is an american myth tho [09:57] lapo: +1 [09:57] lapo: thinkgeek would disagree lol [09:57] nothlit: anyways, you should get those words out so I can create a launchpad poll. [09:57] under: [09:57] lol [09:57] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art/+polls [09:58] troy_s: I pretty much believe in Pirsing's notion of Quality [09:58] kk === nothlit ignores channel for the next few minutes [09:58] Then we can perhaps work on a palette with a (relatively) democratic selection. [09:58] haha, democratic art, that's grand [09:58] TheSheep: Prising is coming up as 'command not found' in my head. [09:58] troy_s: "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" [09:58] TheSheep: I think democracy has its place really -- and I firmly believe it. [09:58] troy_s: good read [09:59] TheSheep: Rather like illusion though -- [09:59] TheSheep: It is what I do with my daughter -- I provide her two choices [09:59] and she picks one. [09:59] troy_s: democracy is a nce tool for managing people [09:59] troy_s: but not for getting thngs done [09:59] TheSheep: Disagree. [09:59] TheSheep: If the flow of democracy is directed, it gets done fine. [09:59] hah [09:59] TheSheep: No guarantee on quality, but then again, there isn't without it either. [10:00] directed democracy, I must remember that [10:00] TheSheep: Lol. [10:00] TheSheep: Well... voting for example [10:00] TheSheep: That's directed democracy [10:00] TheSheep: Vote for Bush or Blah [10:00] Not exactly democratic, but it arrives at a conclusion. [10:00] yup yup [10:00] Again, and perhaps very relevant to that example, you are never assured quality. [10:01] reminds me of collecting statistics for a scientific paper :) [10:01] But the good news is that those who participate HOPEFULLY learn [10:01] once you already have the paper written and just miss the diagrams [10:01] Hell, we need look no further than say, Ubuntu's look to realize that the other side sucks ass too. [10:01]