[04:44] <TheSheep> troy_s: http://www.idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm
[04:44] <TheSheep> :D
[05:09] <troy_s> TheSheep: Amen
[05:12] <TheSheep> lol
[05:13] <TheSheep> troy_s: I found some interesting ideas and comments about user interfaces: http://haiku-os.org/glass_elevator/rfc/ui
[05:40] <ra21vi> nothlit: there?
[05:40] <nothlit> ra21vi: yeah?
[05:41] <ra21vi> nothlit: so whats development so far? anything decided over the project
[05:42] <nothlit> ROFL: Painters apply colored goo to cloth using animal hairs tied to a stick.
[05:43] <nothlit> ra21vi: hmm see the mailing list :) we've decided to start with key words
[05:48] <ra21vi> nothlit: didnt answer to me/
[05:53] <nothlit> ra21vi: huh?
[05:56] <troy_s> ra21vi: Trying to give everyone a chance to weigh in.
[05:56] <ra21vi> troy_s: what do you mean?
[05:58] <ra21vi> troy_s: actually, I never gave time to improve my English language, so communication goes worst when someone try to say things not directly, but bend and enriched with more ideas
[05:59] <ra21vi> I was asking if you people decided over something
[06:00] <ra21vi> bro, I should tell you something...
[06:00] <TheSheep> nothlit: otoh the comments about programming and getting laid are false -- I had girls asking for "programming lessons" form queues...
[06:00] <ra21vi> There are many theme...
[06:01] <TheSheep> nothlit: but maybe it's worse with lISP
[06:01] <ra21vi> many people gave time designing something better.. but Individually...
[06:01] <ra21vi> so, never go that way.. one person thinks better, but when he listens to mass, he knows what actually is in world...
[06:02] <troy_s> ra21vi: I don't quite understand
[06:02] <troy_s> ra21vi: are you saying
[06:02] <troy_s> ra21vi: One person is better than many
[06:02] <troy_s> ra21vi: Or many people are better than one?
[06:02] <ra21vi> troy_s: just opposite?
[06:03] <ra21vi> many are better thn one if working with idea sharing
[06:03] <troy_s> ra21vi: I agree 100%
[06:03] <troy_s> ra21vi: That is the nature of Free Software as well.
[06:03] <troy_s> ra21vi: What is your native language
[06:03] <troy_s> ?
[06:04] <ra21vi> troy_s: hindi.. but officially English
[06:04] <troy_s> ra21vi: The language barrier is probably the most difficult to overcome.
[06:04] <ra21vi> hmm
[06:04] <troy_s> ra21vi: Hopefully everyone can figure out methods.
[06:04] <ra21vi> troy_s: no bro, I was talking something else.. last day you stuck to one things, and I left
[06:05] <troy_s> ra21vi: Yes.  It happens.
[06:05] <troy_s> ra21vi: You can blame TheSheep
[06:05] <troy_s> lol
[06:05] <TheSheep> sorry
[06:05] <ra21vi> TheSheep, why.. I blame to myself too
[06:05] <ra21vi> I was unable to say what actually was in mind
[06:06] <troy_s> ra21vi: You will probably get better as you stay around.
[06:07] <ra21vi> Fedora guys are working on some new icon and themes. i read somewhere
[06:08] <TheSheep> ra21vi: Oxygen?
[06:09] <ra21vi> TheSheep: hhmm, let em check it
[06:23] <ra21vi> hey, about icon work, ..
[06:24] <ra21vi> do you like the emblems so big?
[06:24] <TheSheep> ra21vi: how big?
[06:27] <ra21vi> TheSheep: that is common, and default in Ubunut and all other distros
[06:27] <TheSheep> about half the size of the icon itself, right?
[06:28] <ra21vi> TheSheep: letme make a visual example in Inkscape and load it to show.. just rough mockup
[06:28] <TheSheep> ra21vi: mine are this big and I like them: http://sheep.art.pl/shot.png
[06:35] <ra21vi> TheSheep: which terminal font you using? Its clear
[06:36] <TheSheep> ra21vi: Terminus, the best fornt for terminal ever
[06:38] <ra21vi> ok
[06:38] <ra21vi> TheSheep: thunar file manager is better than nautilus, i think.. developers though didnt made many features, but made something good..
[06:38] <ra21vi> Like in Nautilus, the default emblems are on top...
[06:39] <TheSheep> ra21vi: I think it's configurable in Nautilus
[06:40] <TheSheep> ra21vi: the Thunar developers didn't provide options, they made decissions instead -- and usually good ones
[06:41] <TheSheep> in the end, good design is all about making decissions
[06:43] <ra21vi> TheSheep: not configurable at users end, but it can be at developers end
[06:44] <TheSheep> ra21vi: I thought there is an option in gconf for that
[06:44] <TheSheep> ra21vi: can't check for sure, gnome is long gone from this box
[06:48] <ra21vi> TheSheep: Oxygen is a KDE icon project... not Fedora
[06:50] <TheSheep> ra21vi: I thought Fedora uses KDE for the desktop by default?
[06:51] <TheSheep> ra21vi: so, you mean Echo?
[06:51] <TheSheep> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment
[06:54] <ra21vi> yeah, its echo icon theme
[06:56] <TheSheep> doesn't look very consistent
[07:02] <ra21vi> apart from some sets, its really not good...
[07:02] <ra21vi> TheSheep: you are right..
[07:04] <ra21vi> TheSheep: i think, if we have a theme which imitates paper, than it would be good... and simple
[07:05] <TheSheep> ra21vi: could be interesting -- have all the icons just a sketched drawings
[07:05] <ra21vi> TheSheep: nah,, i was taking about GTK+ theme, not icons
[07:05] <TheSheep> ra21vi: well, gtk theme would be mostly all white...
[07:06] <ra21vi> TheSheep: I remember there is some icon theme, looks like sketched... but doesnt seems better
[07:06] <TheSheep> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=44539&file1=44539-1.jpg&file2=44539-2.jpg&file3=&name=buuf+icon+theme <-- I *love* this one
[07:08] <TheSheep> unfortuanatelly it's not so good when the icons are smaller
[07:08] <ra21vi> TheSheep: yeah, mostly white.. its not my idea.. just taking from OSx
[07:09] <ra21vi> my idea is. Desktop is a table, and you work with the papers.. so interface would be paper
[07:09] <TheSheep> ra21vi: actually a lot of themes go into that direction recently
[07:09] <ra21vi> TheSheep: like
[07:09] <TheSheep> ra21vi: removing lines and edges, removing 3d bevels
[07:09] <TheSheep> ra21vi: murrine for example
[07:10] <TheSheep> ra21vi: industrial too, to some extent
[07:11] <ra21vi> yeah... flat background with white.. (I fear it may be straining to eyes)
[07:12] <ra21vi> ok see here.. http://ra21vi.googlepages.com/Screenshot.png , its about the default emblems in Ubuntu
[07:13] <TheSheep> ra21vi: a little big, indeed
[07:13] <TheSheep> ra21vi: have you tried to lookfor an option for that with gconf-editor ?
[07:13] <ra21vi> in nautilus there is no such, afaik
[07:13] <ra21vi> i searched
[07:13] <TheSheep> ra21vi: note that they seem big on the directories, but not so bad on the files
[07:14] <ra21vi> just, if we make smaller emblems package in icon theme, it would be better
[07:14] <TheSheep> ra21vi: maybe the problem is with the directory icon being small in the human theme?
[07:15] <ra21vi> http://www.randelshofer.ch/quaqua/images/quaqua_metalworks.png
[07:15] <ra21vi> look at it.. the theme resembles paper
[07:16] <TheSheep> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/MilkyGreen%28Beryl%29+and+MurrinaWhite?content=56047
[07:16] <TheSheep> (ignore window decorations)
[07:18] <ra21vi> a little
[07:18] <ra21vi> Though, paper UI will look much better with shadow, which isnt default in Gnome... beryk compiz still to get stable
[07:19] <ra21vi> but paper look much better i think.. look at here at web interface
[07:19] <ra21vi> http://kreattibe.googlepages.com/home.html
[07:20] <TheSheep> ra21vi: the main problem is that to make that work you need gradients and shadows
[07:20] <TheSheep> ra21vi: especially shadows
[07:21] <TheSheep> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/FAF?content=54721  <-- hehe
[07:22] <ra21vi> TheSheep: shadows, yeah.. otherwise it wont make the object edges
[07:23] <ra21vi> the FAF is good, lol
[07:24] <TheSheep> ra21vi: except for bad spacing and too high contrast
[07:25] <ra21vi> TheSheep: regarding the paper thing i was talking... it only meant for the background.. not all theme widgets in theme..
[07:27] <ra21vi> Widgets when not in 3d wont look good
[07:30] <nothlit> lies!
[07:30] <nothlit> scribble blocked buttons :P
[07:31] <TheSheep> ra21vi: you don't like the widgets on my screenshot? :)
[07:32] <TheSheep> http://sheep.art.pl/shot.png
[07:32] <ra21vi> TheSheep: which one
[07:32] <TheSheep> note the buttons in thunar's "location bar"
[07:32] <TheSheep> flat
[07:33] <ra21vi> its good
[07:33] <TheSheep> I think the "3d effect" is just an artifact of the requirement to distinguish "active" controls and is easily replaced with prelight
[07:36] <TheSheep> the fashion is doing a full circle and returns to GEM-like buttons
[07:40] <nothlit> ugh
[04:31] <troy_s> TheSheep: 3D does more than that.
[04:31] <troy_s> TheSheep: I believe the basic idea behind it is that it is interactive.
[04:31] <troy_s> TheSheep: Compare it to the shite outlined buttons in Clear/everything
[05:41] <troy_s> greets elkbuntu How goes uds?
[05:41] <elkbuntu> troy_s, awesome. spain is a damn weird country though
[05:45] <troy_s> the BoFs done for the first day?
[05:45] <troy_s> elkbuntu: How many folks at that one?
[05:45] <elkbuntu> troy_s, last one currently on
[05:45] <elkbuntu> dunno how many people are here today
[05:46] <troy_s> elkbuntu: How many BoFs are you going to attend?
[05:47] <elkbuntu> troy_s, i think i'm signed to 4 specs, but no idea how many BoFs that will involve
[05:49] <troy_s> elkbuntu: Did Scuttlebutt give a decent opening speech?
[05:51] <elkbuntu> troy_s, he didnt land until 10
[05:51] <elkbuntu> troy_s, so he missed doing one this morning, but i'm guessing he'll make up for it tomorrow morning
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: Any progress?
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: How much time left in the poll?
[10:54] <nothlit> Nothing new on the mailing list or forums--prolly about a day--launchpad isn't giving me hours and i'm not sure of the timezone of gmail, etc
[10:55] <nothlit> btw have you ever heard of the Munsell Color Wheel? i never read anything about it before I peeked into pastel forums
[11:03] <nothlit> troy_s: this is neat http://lisalichtenfels.net/pages/technique.html
[11:04] <troy_s> nothlit: Reminds me of those pickled old people heads from about 190
[11:05] <troy_s> 1980
[11:09] <nothlit> i can't believe people can do that with fabric :o
[11:35] <yharrow> hey guys