=== Crankymonky [n=dean@c-69-138-172-103.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:45] troy_s, ping [05:45] darkmatter: Go for me [05:46] http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492044705&size=o <-- still a little crude for my tastes, but is that better? (button1) [05:46] WOOp [05:47] groovy [05:47] I love it... in fact [05:47] I think those tabs could probably glean a little from that application too. [05:47] they will [05:47] those are still the old tabs [05:48] i think that rocks [05:48] very sort of subtle, but enough to almost pull it out [05:48] have you tried those buttons with a grad in that stroke or ???? [05:48] havent had time to do any more work till tonight. going to finish off the button states then recolor the lines n crap... fix the notebook (it'l have a dropshadow too [05:49] those buttons.. nope, not yet [05:49] wow... [05:50] i really need you to make that flex regarding colour [05:50] as i would love to use that gtk... it is almost exactly along the lines of what i was hoping for... [05:50] cool [05:51] I will switch over to trans after I get the general lines finished [05:51] having it colorize is easy enough as long as I redo the widgets (solid color atm) [05:51] in order to use it though, it obviously has to be devoid of colour and either use some recolouring tactic or greytones to mix [05:52] hrm... [05:52] i would be interested in seeing that. [05:52] theres a couple themes that do it, just use transparent pixmaps [05:52] yes that's what i thought, but you would still need to limit yourself to greytones. [05:53] yup [05:53] to avoid contaminating the colours. [05:53] and very neutral greys at that [05:54] I'm incorporating some stuff from gilouche2.0 for the panels too [05:54] it soes individual skinning of widgets for left, right, top and bottom [05:55] *does [05:55] and the panel in glory will need that, as its basically flat with a subtle grad [05:57] hrm... [05:57] if it can integrate its the first thing I am putting in. [05:58] mind you, i would love it if you could paint in a little more 'complexity' into the progress bars and scrollbars as an aftermarket remix version [05:59] here is a question, how is your metacity stroking that text? [05:59] the problem (well, one of many) with more "generic" pixmap themes is that the panels are pretty much delegated to one screen edge, that being whichevr the themer set it to [05:59] i guess it is probably a +1 set of layers of the text then a centered drop [06:00] you mean to customize the look? [06:00] that is what that /panel_gtkrc is supposed to handle [06:00] the metacity, not sure off hand, thats just gilouche... havent combed over the xml yet [06:00] if it weren't fuct, you could use FLAT_BOX etc to make it completely versatile. [06:01] troy_s, yup.. but debian is b0rked :P [06:01] it wouldnt' matter where you put it, as your alignment would always be proper [06:01] yep... bug filed :) [06:01] good [06:01] hopefully we will get some attention on it... it is a serious shortcoming [06:01] indeed [06:02] using that bloody kludgy pixmap approach has so many holes it isn't funny [06:02] not to mention that you also end up wildcarding everything that could possibly go into it to avoid a pothole in the look [06:02] when I start the engine, I got a good pointer for pulling off some wild text effects [06:02] whereas that gtkrc for the panel would theoretically handle all of that very gracefully through a simple box and flat_box [06:03] troy_s, yeah... and with the pixmap engine having several shortcomings of its own [06:03] i _love_ the dynamic cairo buttons, but it is too bad no one ever went further with it. [06:03] theres one engine, but its not very evolved [06:03] as the three demos are bloody nasty [06:03] but the idea behind them, in terms of design, is brilliant. [06:03] and other than the dynamic buttons its kinda hoehum [06:04] yeah i saw one variation on the tiger stripes [06:04] it wasn't even really a variation [06:04] more a clone with some other minor differences that i didn't notice [06:04] yeah [06:05] you using inkscape for your elements? [06:05] you could very easily automate all of that drop shadow etc... [06:05] save you a crapload of time [06:06] yeah... using inkscape, gimp for fine tuning [06:06] im odd that way [06:06] the only real problem with gimp is that it is very 1 way [06:07] yup [06:07] kind of breaks your simplicity... [06:07] have you tried native svgs in their respective roles? [06:07] not yet [06:07] i have had pretty good success with them (aside from the obvious bloody STUPID way that GNOME renders svg's to their stated size then does a bloody scale) [06:07] lol [06:07] _really_ half assed [06:08] _really_ [06:08] the whole point of svg is the ability to give you crisp rendering perfection, and some idiot somewhere decided that [06:08] it was smart to render it to a bitmap then scale that... [06:08] speaking of stupid... another bloody gtk bug I hate is the fact that you cant scale an svg or png across the window background [06:09] hrm... [06:09] by background what do you mean? [06:09] if you want it to *scale* you need to make it freaking huge (as in not scaled, just looks that way) [06:09] because if you are talking 'background' image [06:09] but then the bg takes ages to loade [06:09] as some sort of watermark [06:09] it is possible [06:10] although i am thinking aspect ratio might suck as would be expectd [06:10] avoid the bg_image stanza [06:10] and use the flatbox [06:10] the window base is a flatbox iirc [06:10] hmm... perhaps [06:10] and if you override [06:10] the parent of the window container, it works [06:10] scale must obviously equal true... [06:11] that said, i seem to recall something fecked with entry boxes and text boxes for output... [06:11] but i cant be certain [06:13] so when is glory going to be suitable to drop into a design pattern? [06:15] soon hopefully.. I'm going to work on it tonight. hopefully if I can find the time this weekend I'll get it finished [06:16] Is that with the transparency element? I am quite willing to run with something alphaish if the colours aren't an issue. [06:16] now that the final vision is clear, its just a matter of spitting out pixmaps [06:16] so ... [06:17] here is a question [06:17] are the progress bars in pixmap land stretched or is it possible to have an elegantly shaped progress bar [06:17] AND have it tile with a pattern? [06:17] the transarency may take a bit longer. depends on how much time I can set aside for gfx [06:17] that would be _perfect_ if possible. [06:17] i know that as soon as you tile you run the risk of being square... [06:18] actually.. it can tile... samui dos it.. will be using it as reference for the progressbars [06:18] i suppose the overlay file could carve out the shape ... [06:18] samui? [06:18] mac port [06:18] the problem with relying on an overlay is that then you force the bloody colour factor into it [06:19] what is it? [06:19] a theme? [06:19] pixmap theme [06:19] g-l? [06:20] christ... how many osx clones are we going to be forced to survive through [06:20] http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492091153&size=o [06:21] yeah.. mac clones suck.. but at least it gave me the args needed ;) [06:21] woop, but see its square [06:21] yeah [06:21] the edges are blah [06:21] i think when youtile [06:21] you are automatically bound to a square [06:21] the only way i can think of of [06:22] overcoming is to 'shape' the basic tile by overlaying shape on it. [06:22] which means picking a colour and painting opaque over it... [06:22] (wtf does 'recolorable' do exactly? ideas? lol) [06:22] not a clue [06:23] at least no effect that I've ever seen [06:23] well that is why i wonder [06:24] i like the more rounded buttons in that samui theme though [06:24] i will admit to that [06:24] lol [06:24] actually [06:24] dark [06:24] hmm [06:24] you might want to consider that radius [06:24] on that tab [06:24] see the frame samples? [06:24] yup [06:24] that radius is bloody smooth [06:25] (ignore the rest) [06:25] indeed [06:25] but the radius on those tabs would probably work very well across all of the various elements. [06:25] (on a side note, look at the varying radii in that samui theme -- just be bloody consistent for chrissake) [06:26] I'm actually just doing my own thing atm while trying not to be mac or windows... though the main influence is the little leaked widget shots from leopard, a wee bit of the tango mockups, and nesedah from the etoile project >_> [06:26] but yeah... the radius is nice [06:29] there is something to be said regarding that radius and the sort of connotations that Ubuntu carries in a roundabout way [06:29] it's not sharp [06:30] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Image:Tango-widgets-mockup-01.png <--- thats not too shabby [06:30] yes exactly [06:30] except the double line thing is tripe [06:31] that is pretty much what i was thinking minus that godawful inset line and outline heavy approach [06:31] yup [06:32] but yes... that radius DOES look good [06:32] another ne I always liked as far as overall design (colour not withstanding) is http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/ [06:32] i still think the scrollbars and progress bars could be far superior if they avoid the blocky nature [06:32] *one [06:33] and turn more to vial tubes styled. [06:33] that last one feels all over the board. [06:33] and the curves on the tabs are dipsy do sort of s curve shikane racetrack [06:33] lol [06:34] yeah... but its gnustep.. ala macish [06:34] :P [06:34] i actually think that radius we were looking at for everything regarding buttons is great [06:34] except on the bars [06:34] (as they are a bit of a different entity) [06:34] its why i still cleave towards liking pills [06:35] jeebus that guy has OCD [06:36] lol [06:36] yup [06:36] once again, forest through the trees. [06:36] all those changes are more or less identical. [06:36] ssdp [06:36] I know... its sad [06:37] at least my ocd actually varies :P [06:37] loooool [06:37] anyways, you should pound that thing out so that some folks who could use it can use it sooner rather than later [06:37] ocd guy [06:37] gg is coming soon [06:37] yup [06:38] wher eis that link again? [06:38] to the current glory? [06:38] (FECK i wish it were easier to account for all the different states and such... grr) [06:38] lol [06:39] that tango reminds me of picasa [06:39] http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/sets/72157594488098254/ [06:39] last pic in the series is the current missmash [06:39] *mishmash [06:39] so i take it you are going to dropshadow all the interactive elements [06:39] greets nothlit [06:40] troy_s, yup [06:40] wehre hte feck is the fullsize button [06:40] grr [06:41] the lil magnifying glass thingy [06:41] yep... that stepper radius i think would work wonderfully. [06:41] STEEPER even [06:41] feck [06:41] lol [06:41] troy_s: heyas [06:42] btw--the svg rendering makes sense for viewing applications--just not for ui [06:42] nothlit: Absolutely [06:42] nothlit: For everything else, it is just ridiculous. [06:43] Although I guess if you zoom in on a pic it is ridiculous too... check out the cheese that image viewer sells in that regard... *sigh* [06:43] darkmatter: if you _can_ [06:43] darkmatter: I would love it if you could keep everything svg native [06:43] I shall try [06:44] (and yes, there are a few glitches on that front -- like one pixel shears here and there... but you can figure it out i am pretty certain) [06:44] darkmatter: Here is a quesiton [06:44] darkmatter: if you say, went for fully rounded buttons ala samui [06:44] when you get a big button, is there a way to maintain that perfect circular radius using the border technique? [06:44] not with the initial build (svg goodness).. I just wanna get the finalized look in all its Glory ;) [06:45] hmmm [06:45] not that I can think of [06:46] darkmatter: Part of my brain is saying 'duh yes' but hte other part can't figure it out in terms of the mechanics. [06:46] the border technique kinda blows chunks [06:46] well it is a weird bird isn't it... [06:46] yup [06:46] as in how the feck do you get left and top [06:46] and not [06:46] overlap!? [06:46] not quite certain on that... or how it is actually working [06:46] brb.. need to throw on a pot of java [06:47] I just say the gtk devs need to take lessons from raster :P [06:49] darkmatter: no shit [06:49] darkmatter: Although that fucking file manager thing in E17 is ... just ... gawd. [06:50] darkmatter: I look at E17 and think salvation, then that fecking file manager pops up and I realize I have fallen into hell. === yharrow [n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:51] loool [06:51] troy_s, thats just a demo app btw [06:51] :P [06:51] it fecking better be [06:52] haha [06:53] one thing I love is how fast efs is... and I also love the animations in the file selector [06:53] unlike gnome that sits and grinds away [06:53] yep [06:53] troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/literature/collaborationprogress.html --do you have any objects/images to add? [06:54] on the fly animated loading of thumbnails and everything, makes even slow loading dir seem to wiz by [06:54] darkmatter: But _that_ feckign beast is a theme nightmare [06:55] that the point that gnome devs seem to miss... aesthetics *DO* play a major part in user experience [06:55] darkmatter: There is something to be said for class based look definitions [06:55] imagine having to define EVERYTHING int eh bloody system augh [06:55] troy_s, yup.. I know.. I've been trying to theme it [06:55] nothlit: I like wher eyou are heading with that... [06:55] nautilus is such a nightmare in reading the entire dir before responding--and it locks all instances [06:55] nothlit: Let me think on it. [06:56] darkmatter: And that moving target sucks bollocks [06:56] lol [06:58] nothlit: DNA is out of bounds [06:58] nothlit: Fedora 6 [06:58] nothlit: You would drown in the comparison / rip off debate [06:58] nothlit, yup... they should take the e approach to loading, or even the LONGHORN method [06:58] troy_s: it was just a sidenote to help people visualise [06:59] nothlit: Ah [06:59] just load on the fly instead of caching everything [06:59] nothlit: Obviously that bloody picture of hte painted hands springs to mind. [06:59] and just subtle animate it so it doesnt look like a cat trying to hork up a hairball [06:59] I'd much like to avoid all hands and nude people [07:00] LOOLLLLL [07:00] darkmatter: photo collection managers are in this regard [07:00] nothlit, yup [07:00] to bad filers suck.. umm.. furry grapefruit === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:23] there's too many photo collection managers on this system [07:24] f-spot, gthumb, picasa [07:24] gthumb doesn't count [07:25] why not [07:27] its not really a manager [07:27] more like an overblown viewer [07:27] picassa isn't Free is it? [07:27] no, but its still free [07:28] uses wine to run [07:28] nothlit: I thought it was linux native now and in the commercial repos [07:28] troy_s: hmm since collaboration got so many votes--think it should be the focus? or more equal [07:29] nothlit: I think offering it up as both probably keeps the most creative aspect elements alive. [07:29] nothlit: You just never know when you mix bright minds with substance. [07:30] troy_s: i've updated the link https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/literature/collaborationprogress.html --tell me what you think before I put it on the wiki so others can contribute [07:32] nothlit: I think that the collaboration mixed with progress is quite a bit different than say, fed 7s [07:32] certainly see your point on the progress front though. [07:32] as flying does have some sort of strange connection on that front [07:33] nothlit: It is pretty wide open... I rather like the idea of the techy motion... [07:33] meatballhat had an interesting idea regarding something evolving from a blueprint (if I haven't butchered it too much) [07:34] that sort of (probably cliched) wireframe / blueprint to reality motif [07:37] Do you think the community can handle doing techy without that harshness and sense of disconnect? [07:37] We'd have to highlight individual parts/contributions somehow, expose the underworkings and strip away smooth exteriors [07:37] nothlit: Probably not, but [07:37] nothlit: I doubt we will get anywhere constantly underestimating [07:38] nothlit: I think it is safe to provide an 'open forum' for submission [07:38] then if it doesn't quite brew up in terms of quality [07:38] do a boil down and reduce to a limited set and offer it up for redo [07:38] worst case, some solo figure ends up reworking it such that it works on a decent level. [07:39] but i actually think that there is the talent out there, they just tend to not get interested until it is a little late. [07:39] it MIGHT be nice to see what a core can do say, given a restricted palette etc. [07:40] ok must sleep [07:40] out [07:40] The thing is with tech its hard to stay away from those overused blues--although i suppose we could go will blue-greys [07:40] kk ttyl [07:41] on a side note [07:41] WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT SHITTY FONT AT UB.COM? [07:41] jesus [07:41] where are the typesetters when you need them [07:41] feck me that is brutal [07:41] mixed in with that walmart photo [07:41] UGGGH [07:42] jesus [07:42] ub.com? === nysosym [n=ericschw@p54B7ADE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h125n2fls306o1003.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:07] nothlit, I think troy_s was complaining about the fonts on ubuntu.com? Given that those are set by browsers, if he's seeing ugly fonts it's because that's what is on his system... === klepas [n=klepas@ppp167-251-133.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [i=kwwii@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-a3a146927cc9cd31] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:47] embedded fonts for the win--i think we're going to see a lot more of than when mini svg becomes more implemented [09:48] nothlit, you mean in 2015, when IE8 finally comes out with minimal SVG support? :P [09:59] well i'm guessing if microsoft doesn't step up--people will realise they are in a severely compromised web experience [10:00] people don't care about security [10:00] meh. Far too many people think Internet Explorer = The Internet [10:00] but they [10:00] 'll care about fugly founds and not using their clicky web applications [10:00] fonts* [10:00] troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492236366&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- we have the buttons ;) === elkbuntu [i=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:08] nothlit, click that link. want opinions on the pressed state of the buttons ;) === yharrow [n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:23] darkmatter: its odd that it looks so flat [10:23] i mean it doesn't have be the exact reverse but i don't feel that curve [10:24] yeah... theres a grad in there.. but its drawing odd in the ui [10:31] do you have two sources of light or is that reflected light in the buttons? === bersace [n=bersace@81.185.38.57] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [i=kwwii@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-cf714de3b694c27c] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [i=kwwii@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-8546b6cf01878973] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === yharrow [n=sysadmin@unaffiliated/yharrow] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@81.185.38.57] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === lapo [n=lapo@host238-223-static.40-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:06] hi === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [i=kwwii@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-d147ea563ec8015f] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [i=kwwii@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-60dd7dc607208548] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === kwwii [i=kwwii@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-d9d256d0473f4281] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:09] nothlit: Actually I was talking about the font in that ass ugly png at the top of Ubuntu dot com === meatballhat [n=dbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === meatballhat [n=dbuch@ubuntu/member/meatballhat] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === bersace [n=bersace@81.185.38.57] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [07:01] troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492640772&size=o ignore the progressbars.. was playing. also ignore the graphical glitches in the tabs.. still need to do some debugging) [07:02] but how them buttons lookin'? [07:02] woop an update [07:02] hold on [07:03] did you shrink the drop or am i delusional? [07:04] oh i see some drop on the toggles now too... should probably have some shade down that left side to keep upper left lighting in place [07:04] and probably lose the outer drop (as it is supposed to be reflective of a depressed state?) [07:05] darkmatter: Woop... tabs are getting dropped [07:05] darkmatter: Like that... [07:05] darkmatter: I would also probably carry the drop along from the tab _over_ the under tabs [07:06] (if that is even possible... now that i think about it... lol) [07:07] troy_s, thats the plane, once I debug the gaps and match up the outlines [07:07] oh yeah i see now [07:07] cool... [07:07] the tabs will have shadows matching the notebook [07:08] i am really liking the 3d element actually [07:08] so the right tab has a right and bottom shadow, etc [07:08] yeah [07:08] darkmatter: Have you tried a grad on the button stroke? [07:09] darkmatter: Lighter to darker for example? [07:09] in fact, you could almost try a grad on the diagonal [07:09] just filling the gaps is kinda tricky with that shadow [07:09] ? [07:09] troy_s, yup.. actually, there is a grad... I was just tired and did it tolight [07:10] the tabs [07:10] filling the gaps on the fecking tabs eh? [07:10] i see... [07:10] its a bugger as the tabs are so complicated in terms of construction via pixmap [07:10] the gap between notebook and tab on the shadow sides [07:10] yup [07:11] yeah [07:11] you can see the grove where they meet on the right and bottom tab [07:11] darkmatter: On the deactivated buttons [07:11] the inactives [07:11] it would probably be logical to drop the drop on those too... [07:11] as they aren't really clickable [07:11] hence they can afford to lose their 3d [07:11] (the inactives all around look pretty damn solid really) [07:13] troy_s, yeah.. I was going to go for a flat look on those [07:13] the inactives are still the old mlky ones [07:13] *milky [07:14] i totally think it makes logical sense... [07:14] as the 3d implies 'interact with me' [07:14] and the flat in conjunction with the nerfed tones [07:14] is very 'sorry you are out of luck' [07:14] yup [07:14] if you manage to embrace that across _all_ of the elements, i think it will really elevate it. [07:15] and the diffuse highlight on the buttons is certainly infinitely better than that crap bloody swoopy gloss that is everywehre at the moment. [07:15] actually, i wonder if that shoudl perhaps show a little more upper left light shape [07:16] yeah.. actually I was thinking of doing that to all the active elements.. have the upper left corner and a small grad on the left top to give it more of a sheen [07:20] troy_s, its too bad that tiling sucks with range. I was wanting to give those a meter look [07:23] darkmatter: Yeah very much like you have with the diffuse highlight [07:23] but shape them more from that upper left corner [07:23] yup [07:28] I was going to use a subtle grad on the menus... but since I'm using perforated menu lines I can't.. the only way to do those lines is to tile the image, and a trans background doesnt tile without leaving fugly artifacts (as in technicolor static) [07:31] the terrors of the pixmap engine [07:33] darkmatter: Try svg [07:33] darkmatter: I swear the SVG raws seem to generate different looks [07:33] I'll give it a shot === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@unaffiliated/darkmatter] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === elkbuntu [i=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:32] elkbuntu: Any uds updates? [08:32] elkbuntu: Anything intresting? [08:32] darkmatter: Progress? [08:35] http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=492727796&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o [08:35] just small progress, was havin dindin with the family [08:35] troy_s, you should try come to a UDS one day. there's *always* something interesting going on === illern [n=illern@c83-252-239-167.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:37] elkbuntu: I've been to one. [08:37] elkbuntu: Not really my cup of tea really... === illern [n=illern@c83-252-239-167.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === lapo [n=lapo@host224-139-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:56] hi [08:59] agood afternoon lapo [09:00] ciao darkmatter [09:00] dang. rendering bug with the text focus in xchat.. grrrr [09:01] damn. pixmap.engine [09:02] darkmatter: do you really really really need to use that engine? [09:03] lapo... only for the prototype.. once its done I'll be coding some cairo love [09:04] I just use the pixmap engin to work out design elements. its easier than repeatedly compiling and installing [09:08] lapo: Pixmap is the best engine there is [09:08]