[12:35] <waldo323> does it see your tuner card fine after upgrading?
[12:36] <waldo323> before feisty you would need to recompile your tuner card drivers, at least for some cards
[12:44] <Xenocide> hey has anyone setup wirelss on their mythtv box
[01:20] <rogue780|laptop> in edgy when I inserted a SD card into my laptop it would automatically mount it and put an icon on my desktop. now when I insert an SD card under feisty nothing happens. the card reader is built into my laptop.
[01:23] <tgm4883_laptop> is it set in the removable media?
[01:24] <tgm4883_laptop> mine mounts automatically just fine
[01:25] <rogue780|laptop> how do I find out?
[01:25] <tgm4883_laptop> under system preferences removable drives and media
[03:12] <a5benwillis> what command do I use to 'tail' a log file in real time?
[03:40] <jams> a5benwillis-  tail -f logfilename
[03:43] <a5benwillis> tx
[06:08] <gardengnome> re
[06:08] <gardengnome> wow, that was a rather rough ride
[06:08] <gardengnome> i've just installed svn packages based on marillat's 0.19 .diff on a box with superm1's 0.20 packages
[07:18] <superm1> Hey Daviey
[07:24] <Daviey> superm1, i thought you had died
[07:24] <Daviey> where have you been? :)
[07:24] <superm1> Daviey, i've been moving and dont have internet setup yet
[07:24] <Daviey> oic
[07:25] <superm1> so its been really weird without web access
[07:25] <gardengnome> are your hands shaking?
[07:25] <superm1> yes yes they are
[07:26] <superm1> it was even worse, my cell phone antenna broke, so i couldnt even get onto gmail via that !
[07:27] <gardengnome> oh my god
[07:27] <gardengnome> i'm sorry to hear that :(
[07:28] <Daviey> superm1, checked i some of DaveMorris' changes to the script
[07:28] <superm1> so i'm glad to be on for the moment
[07:28] <superm1> what did he change?
[07:28] <Daviey> I also changed the date format to be YYMMDD
[07:28] <superm1> are they on bzr now?
[07:28] <Daviey> superm1, changelog on lp - but mainly adding AMD64 support
[07:28] <Daviey> superm1, yes
[07:28] <superm1> oh i hope that i uploaded the latest one directly from pegasus before he went changing stuff
[07:29] <superm1> i dont want to have to merge ;)
[07:29] <superm1> ooh proxy option
[07:29] <Daviey> I want to change the script to remove references to supermario and make it save to a central place.  Probably /storage
[07:29] <superm1> i like that
[07:29] <gardengnome> superm1: would you be interested in an adaption your mythtv debianisation to svn trunk?
[07:29] <superm1> gardengnome, you mean the weekly build script?
[07:29] <superm1> for 0.20-fixes?
[07:30] <gardengnome> superm1: no, i was mainly talking about the stuff thaT's in the .diff.gz
[07:30] <gardengnome> think debian/rules
[07:31] <superm1> usually that stuff doesnt go into upstream
[07:31] <superm1> its supposed to sit at debian/ubuntu/mythbuntu level
[07:31] <gardengnome> sure, i never meant to submit it to upstream.
[07:31] <Daviey> gardengnome, what is in there?
[07:32] <superm1> well upstream would be svn trunk, unless we're referring to different things
[07:32] <gardengnome> Daviey: debian/rules, debian/control; anything that's needed to turn a source package into a debian package.
[07:32] <gardengnome> superm1: heh, sorry. i was going to package svn trunk. and i was wondering if you were interested in the necessary changes.
[07:32] <superm1> gardengnome, i've been very very very warry of packaging svn trunk
[07:33] <Daviey> what i am saying is - why would we convert to svn method when it works currently? ;)
[07:33] <superm1> because once someone has svn available to them really easily, things can break for a lot of people
[07:33] <gardengnome> superm1: it'd be their choice ;)
[07:33] <superm1> there is a thread on mythtv-users about this that i commented on a little bit with this
[07:33] <superm1> looking to see if there was interest
[07:34] <superm1> and the consensus was that it shouldnt be made too easy for users to install svn trunk, because if there is breakage they cant go back easily
[07:34] <gardengnome> well, i *am* interested which is why i'm going to do it. at the moment, i'm using marillat's 0.19 stuff which someone updated for svn trunk.
[07:35] <superm1> gardengnome, well your better off using our automated build script
[07:35] <superm1> for 0.20 fixes svn
[07:35] <superm1> because it can be switched to trunk very very easily
[07:35] <superm1> (matter of switching a single env variable)
[07:35] <gardengnome> i don't want release-0.20-fixes, i want trunk
[07:35] <gardengnome> ah
[07:35] <superm1> atm it will create a source package that is ready to be kicked off to a buildd or pbuilder or debuild
[07:36] <gardengnome> superm1: right. however, certain things like build-time dependencies will still need to be modified.
[07:36] <superm1> Modified?
[07:36] <superm1> for svn?
[07:36] <superm1> trunk
[07:36] <gardengnome> yes.
[07:36] <gardengnome> that's my point :)
[07:36] <superm1> oh i was not aware of this
[07:36] <gardengnome> for example, mythmusic can use libvisual and taglib now
[07:36] <superm1> ah
[07:36] <gardengnome> there even might be some new libs
[07:37] <superm1> hm
[07:37] <gardengnome> that's my point. ;)
[07:38] <superm1> see i'm pretty torn here, i do like the idea of putting svn trunk builds together
[07:38] <Daviey> snapshots?
[07:38] <superm1> yea
[07:38] <Daviey> I dunno - people want bleedin' edge - then complain when it borks
[07:38] <gardengnome> it also has the advantage of keeping in sync with trunk. otherwise, you'd need to make major updates every time a new release comes out.
[07:38] <gardengnome> which is like once a year :/
[07:38] <superm1> thats very true
[07:39] <superm1> gardengnome,  if you determine what needs to be changed, we can adapt it and put it on pegasus with a big big big warning that these are bleeding edge packages
[07:39] <superm1> etc
[07:39] <Daviey> Weekly builds - semi stable & semi broken :)
[07:40] <gardengnome> superm1: that's not a problem, i've already got a set of working packages. i just need to adapt that to your ubuntu packages
[07:40] <Daviey> gardengnome, was it literally a case of running pbuilder?
[07:41] <superm1> gardengnome, so do you need a hand understand how debian packages work in this case, or just need to literally make the changes to add other build deps and such
[07:41] <gardengnome> Daviey: i don't use pbuilder atm, but dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot worked well after adding some depndencies :)
[07:41] <gardengnome> superm1: i think my understanding of debian packages is sufficient to do it myself
[07:41] <gardengnome> i used to roll my own svn packages back in the day... ;)
[07:41] <superm1> k gardengnome, well if you have any problems or questions feel free to ping me and i'll give you a hand
[07:42] <gardengnome> scorpi has done most of the work already: http://home.arcor.de/scorpidnb/mythtv/READ_ME
[07:42] <superm1> i would really recommend taking our bzr branch
[07:42] <gardengnome> superm1: fine, sounds great
[07:42] <gardengnome> i'll set up pbuilder again.
[07:42] <superm1> and starting from that debian/* directory
[07:42] <superm1> because it grabs svn and makes tgz for you at least to base from
[07:42] <gardengnome> on my old box, i used to have pbuilder with some wrapper scripts. i should get those again
[07:42] <Daviey> gardengnome, can you check in your debian/ folder into bzr?
[07:43] <superm1> gardengnome, here is the address to do the bzr co from: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythbuntu/devel
[07:43] <Daviey> gardengnome, are you in 'da team'?
[07:43] <gardengnome> Daviey: i don't have bzr :( it's not ready. scorpi just kept updating marillat's 0.19 packages to work with trunk
[07:43] <gardengnome> Daviey: nope.
[07:44] <superm1> gardengnome, once you are ready to check changes back into bzr, we'll add you to the lp team
[07:45] <Daviey> Have we heard anything from Garry Parker from parker1.co.uk
[07:46] <superm1> juski tried to contact him some time back
[07:46] <superm1> but didnt get through
[07:46] <Daviey> oh superm1, never heard back from MePo creater
[07:47] <superm1> i think i'll just submit the themes package without mepo in it then
[07:47] <superm1> until we hear back
[07:47] <Daviey> shame
[07:47] <superm1> its easy enough to add it via a debdiff
[07:48] <Daviey> just important to get the main package in
[07:48] <Daviey> superm1, you uploaded the usplash theme to revu with a different name
[07:48] <superm1> on purpose
[07:49] <Daviey> why?
[07:49] <superm1> because thats how kubuntu follows the naming for feisty+
[07:49] <Daviey> ahh
[07:49] <gardengnome> superm1: yay. :)
[07:49] <Daviey> i got the original one i uploaded nuked
[07:49] <superm1> yes i saw that email this morning
[07:49] <superm1> from revu
[07:49] <superm1> vg
[07:50] <superm1> Daviey, i wonder if i can submit this to revu leaving mepo in the source package, but just not installing it in the binary
[07:50] <superm1> so the source doesnt have to be regenerated in the future
[07:50] <Daviey> better ask MOTU
[07:51] <Daviey> I would think they would say no - but technically can't see a problem
[07:51] <superm1> i think they'd say no too..
[07:51] <superm1> i'll just pull it
[07:52] <superm1> this package is huge btw, 90 megs for the source package
[07:52] <Daviey> It's been almost a week since i mailed him....  I could try the forums...
[07:53] <superm1> garry parker?
[07:53] <gardengnome> Daviey: he is available sometimes on #mythtv-users
[07:53] <Daviey> no the MePo guy
[07:53] <gardengnome> juski knows him, AFAIK
[07:53] <superm1> well its not him we need, its the guy who did his artwork
[07:53] <superm1> his xml files are GPL
[07:54] <superm1> but he doesnt even know about the licensing on the artwork (and has a blurb on his site about it)
[08:24] <gardengnome> the build script looks nice
[08:25] <superm1> (weekly build i'm assuming your talking about)
[08:25] <gardengnome> yep
[08:26] <gardengnome> it might better to include the revision in the version string instead of just using the date, though
[08:26] <superm1> well i guess for trunk that'd be more important
[08:26] <gardengnome> yep.
[08:27] <superm1> well just need to be sure to stay consistent
[08:27] <superm1> do you know an easy way to grab that version number?
[08:27] <superm1> we can switch to that
[08:27] <gardengnome> i'm on edgy still, i wonder if i need to get the pbuilder deb from feisty.
[08:27] <gardengnome> superm1: svn info | grep something | cut something probably
[08:27] <gardengnome> or capture the last line from svn co/svn up
[08:28] <superm1> didnt even know there was an info option for svn
[08:28] <gardengnome> heh
[08:29] <gardengnome> something is very wrong here. i tried to do a "find -name something | grep somethingelse" in the minimyth build tree and the kernel OOPSed.
[08:29] <gardengnome> i think i need some fsck magic.
[08:30] <Daviey> fsck is black magic
[08:30] <gardengnome> heh
[08:30] <Daviey> it fscked one of my partitions
[08:31] <gardengnome> i guess i'll modify work/debian-mythtv now and get acquainted with the build script later
[08:32] <superm1> yea it covers most of the complexities of the package
[08:33] <gardengnome> i wonder what kind of versioning schema should be used. "0.20-trunk-rXXXX" is not exactly a great idea
[08:33] <tgm4883_laptop> is there a certain amout of free space that is required on the recording partition?
[08:35] <a5benwillis> Good afternoon, can anyone help me get lirc_serial working under Ubuntu Edgy?
[08:35] <Daviey> gardengnome, probably svn$date
[08:36] <gardengnome> Daviey: we should ensure that the version is higher than the current release so as not to confuse apt
[08:36] <superm1> gardengnome, what about just adding a r### after the current svn$date
[08:36] <superm1> a5benwillis, what sort of troubles?
[08:37] <gardengnome> sounds sensible
[08:37] <Daviey> a5benwillis, what guide are you following?
[08:37] <a5benwillis> I've tried several but am working from this one atm.
[08:37] <a5benwillis> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Edgy
[08:38] <a5benwillis> I have a home-brew serial rx.
[08:38] <superm1> k a5benwillis what is happening for you then?
[08:38] <superm1> does the module load?
[08:38] <a5benwillis> yes, module loads
[08:38] <a5benwillis> I get /dev/lirc0
[08:38] <Daviey> and if you start the service?
[08:39] <a5benwillis> but when I run mode2 -d /dev/lirc0 I get nooutpur when pushing buttons
[08:39] <a5benwillis> Its difficult because I have no way to test the receiver other than lirc.
[08:41] <Daviey> a5benwillis,  what does - sudo /etc/init.d/lirc start give you?
[08:42] <superm1> a5benwillis, do you have multiple serial ports?
[08:42] <a5benwillis>  LIRC IS NOT CONFIGURED
[08:42] <a5benwillis> started daemon
[08:42] <a5benwillis> only one serial port per dmesg
[08:42] <superm1> ah and the daemon would not start if you haven't irrecorded your remote yet of course
[08:43] <Daviey> a5benwillis, have you used 'setserial'?
[08:43] <a5benwillis> superm1: I shouldnt have to confiigure the daemon to test whether Im getting signals from the remote though.
[08:44] <superm1> right
[08:45] <a5benwillis> yes,setserial to set uart to none
[08:45] <Daviey> did you make the reciever yourself or purchase it?
[08:46] <a5benwillis> made from here http://www.lirc.org/images/schematics.gif
[08:47] <Daviey> a5benwillis, pain - so it's never been tested :(
[08:48] <a5benwillis> true,butits a pretty siple circuit..
[08:50] <superm1> a5benwillis, you've made sure that the serial port is enabled in the BIOS?  It will show up in dmesg regardless (on at least 2 of my machines that i know its turned off in the BIOS)
[08:51] <superm1> and the irq/interrupt are set appropriately to what you set in lirc-modules-source?
[08:52] <a5benwillis> I havent checked the bios
[08:52] <a5benwillis> good idea
[08:53] <a5benwillis> I need to grab my logic probe from home, that should tell me if Im getting signal from the ir rx
[08:56] <superm1> from *home*?
[08:56] <superm1> you mean work i'd think...
[08:56] <a5benwillis> yes, enabled in bios
[08:57] <a5benwillis> No, I have one at home.
[08:57] <a5benwillis> not at work :)
[08:57] <superm1> :)
[08:59] <a5benwillis> should irw work without the daemon running?
[09:00] <superm1> No, it connects to the daemon
[09:00] <superm1> and you need a lircd.conf
[09:01] <a5benwillis> superm1: Gonna reinstall edgy.I wonderif following the first guide mucked something in the kernel up
[09:02] <superm1> well what guide did you first follow?
[09:02] <a5benwillis> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=163496
[09:02] <superm1> ah a source guide
[09:03] <superm1> well you should be able to revert anything done there, and take out that /etc/init.d/homebrew
[09:03] <superm1> and /etc/rcS.d/S99homebrew
[09:03] <superm1> you've done that i imagine right?
[09:03] <a5benwillis> not yet, couldnt get past testing mode2
[09:03] <superm1> well that is going to mess you up for sure
[09:03] <superm1> ln /dev/lirc0 /dev/lirc?
[09:03] <superm1> that will most definitely break things
[09:04] <a5benwillis> I diddo that but it doesnt stick
[09:04] <superm1> well when modprobing lirc_serial, that /dev/lirc0 should be made on its own
[09:04] <a5benwillis> Im testing this on another machine so I dont muck up my myth box. when I know how to do it right I'll install on myth..
[09:04] <superm1> if its not being made, then there is another trouble
[09:05] <superm1> ah
[09:05] <Daviey> a5benwillis, took me a week to get working untill i followed the wiki guide ;)
[09:05] <a5benwillis> yes, lirc0gets made, no lirc though
[09:05] <a5benwillis> Daviey: I feel better now :D
[09:05] <Daviey> almost gave up... didn't work when i went to bed... Switched on in the morning and it worked :)
[09:06] <Daviey> I look after the bookmark very carefully now.
[09:07] <a5benwillis> Im still trying to get a few init scriupts to work on this box as well. Once that and lirc are up I'll have a wife friendly myth box.
[09:07] <a5benwillis> I use Sat so I have to start a few "things" as well
[09:07] <Daviey> a5benwillis, init scripts are easy.  There is a bare one / or just rip of another inside init.d
[09:08] <Daviey> then make a symlink inside the runlevel of your choice
[09:08] <a5benwillis> I have a few example scripts for starting a few daemons. I get a few errors from one.
[09:08] <a5benwillis> I can start everything manually of course andit works fine.
[09:09] <a5benwillis> yeah, I had the symlinksin there but took them out til I got the script right.
[09:09] <a5benwillis> Daviey: What IR receiver do you use?
[09:10] <Daviey> a5benwillis, homebrew - used to use one on Nova-T - but then had to have separate when i split back/frontend
[09:10] <a5benwillis> I might have to buy one if I cant verify that this one I made works.
[09:11] <Daviey> tbh. i purchased mine - it was only UK8
[09:12] <Daviey> For parts - all local suppliers wanted a quantity of >5.  Would have cost me more
[09:15] <gardengnome> some of the patches will have to be updated, eg the debian patch
[09:15] <gardengnome> the recording group stuff seems to break it
[09:16] <superm1> gardengnome, how does the recording group stuff work now?
[09:16] <superm1> is there like a primary directory steting?
[09:17] <gardengnome> superm1: i think there's a primary directory, yes. i haven't really looke dinto it because my mythtv box is broken :'(
[09:17] <gardengnome> i'll try to come up with a patch
[09:17] <Daviey> Will any of you guys us the different recording directories?
[09:17] <gardengnome> yes
[09:17] <gardengnome> i don't like LVM.
[09:18] <superm1> i will switch to different recording directories i think
[09:18] <superm1> i'm wary of LVM, i lost all my data once when i drive died
[09:18] <gardengnome> i've got an empty 400G partition dedicated to mythtv at the moment, another couple of gigabytes are waiting in an unused logical volume
[09:18] <Daviey> that's a good point - my backup's are on the same LVM - maybe i should stop that
[09:19] <gardengnome> that should keep me going for a while
[09:34] <superm1> Daviey, http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=5108
[09:35] <Daviey> good
[09:36] <Daviey> :s - http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mythtv-themes-unofficial-0705111500/lintian
[09:36] <superm1> revu servers are never updated for that stuff ;)
[09:36] <Daviey> bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy  - hasn't revu updated to gutsy?
[09:36] <gardengnome> um
[09:37] <gardengnome> the configfiles/ directory was moved to contrib/configfiles which is installed into debian/mythtv-backend/usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend
[09:38] <gardengnome> should the configfiles still be put into the mythtv-doc package, eg should i move them out of the mythtv-backend package again?
[09:38] <superm1> sudo apt-get install mythtv-doc
[09:38] <superm1> oops
[09:38] <superm1> meant to look in a terminal what was in mythtv-doc right now :)
[09:38] <gardengnome> :)
[09:38] <gardengnome> apt-file show :)
[09:39] <Daviey> The following NEW packages will be installed
[09:39] <Daviey>   mythtv-doc
[09:39] <Daviey> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[09:39] <Daviey> Need to get 1135kB of archives.
[09:39] <Daviey> After unpacking 1819kB of additional disk space will be used.
[09:39] <superm1> mythtv-doc takes eveyrthing on configfiles/* and puts it in mythtv-doc/examples
[09:39] <Daviey> sorry - thought this was a terminal :0
[09:40] <superm1> see debian/rules:         dh_installexamples -pmythtv-doc configfiles/*
[09:41] <gardengnome> right.
[09:41] <superm1> oh wait i see what your comment was
[09:41] <superm1> configfiles is now contrib/configfiles
[09:41] <gardengnome> yep
[09:41] <superm1> yes move it back out
[09:46] <gardengnome> suppose i'll just delete debian/mythtv-backend/usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend/contrib/configfiles.
[09:47] <superm1> well there are lots of ways to handle it, probably moving it to the old location is easiest
[09:48] <gardengnome> sure, but i'd have to write a "clean" rule to move it back to the new place on dpkg-buildpackage clean, right?
[09:48] <superm1> right
[09:50] <gardengnome> some people aren't happy with using --compile-type=debug and stripping the symbols later. someone told me that we'd be missing out optimizations then.
[09:50] <gardengnome> guess i'll have to task again in #mythtv
[09:51] <gardengnome> there's --compile-type=profile which will allow for optimizations while retaining debug symbols
[09:51] <superm1> when i looked at the source, i didnt see anything that would be taken out by --compile-type=debug
[09:52] <superm1> your sure that leaves optimizations and debug symbols, the compile type=profile
[09:52] <superm1> and these arent CPU specific optimizations or anything like that?
[09:53] <gardengnome> i'll talk to someone more knowledgeable later. i think that -O2 is not possible with --compile-type=debug
[09:53] <gardengnome> not sure, though
[09:53] <superm1> K
[09:53] <superm1> well if anything, i'm always more preferable to -Os
[09:53] <superm1> rather than -O2
[09:54] <gardengnome> sure, but if we use our own optimizations flags, we get to keep both pieces if it breaks
[09:54] <a5benwillis> superm1: Banging my head against the wall lol
[09:54] <superm1> a5benwillis, :)
[09:54] <a5benwillis> superm1: Reinstalled, followed the wiki. Loaded the serial module
[09:55] <superm1> gardengnome, let me know what they say in #mythtv bout the compile types
[09:55] <a5benwillis> got lirc, lirc0
[09:55] <superm1> and we can switch it around as needed
[09:55] <a5benwillis> sudo mode2, nothing from remote..
[09:55] <gardengnome> superm1: yep. i'll wrap my head around the packages first, though
[09:55] <superm1> i say you need to checkout that device and make sure its working
[09:55] <superm1> with your logic analyzer
[09:57] <a5benwillis> I get this from dmesg:
[09:57] <a5benwillis> [17180180.760000]  lirc_serial: no version for "lirc_unregister_plugin" found: kernel tainted.
[09:57] <a5benwillis> [17180181.760000]  lirc_serial: auto-detected active low receiver
[09:57] <a5benwillis> I'm not sure if that "tainted" message is bad or not..
[09:58] <superm1> i get that on my functional mceusb2 setup, so i wouldnt worry
[09:58] <a5benwillis> I have a Harmony remote. Would a mceusb recieverwork orshould I stick to the serial?
[09:59] <superm1> well i've never tried a remote other than the mceusb2 or mceusb i have
[09:59] <superm1> but the harmony can learn the commands for mceusb2 if you needed it to
[09:59] <superm1> i've been really happy with the mceusb2 myself
[09:59] <a5benwillis> k, I guessI'll test this adapter and if anythings in questionII'll just order one online.
[09:59] <gardengnome> superm1: is it still true that an additional package containing the dbg symbols is being produced from those packages?
[10:00] <superm1> yes
[10:00] <superm1> if you do it in a pbuilder though, you need an extra package thats not in the pbuilder by defualt
[10:00] <superm1> i have it in my local pbuilders
[10:00] <superm1> and the buildds have it as well
[10:00] <gardengnome> ok, just wondering
[10:01] <superm1> thats why the -dbg package of mythtv was dropped because of the symbol stripping functionality apport gives
[10:04] <a5benwillis> superm1: Using anledIm able to testpower through the circuit all the way to the ir. I'll need my digital probe to check the ir output.
[10:04] <a5benwillis> thanks for all ofthe help!
[10:05] <superm1> good luck a5benwillis
[10:05] <superm1> let us know how it turns out
[10:05] <a5benwillis> will do!
[10:05] <superm1> gardengnome, what you confused on?
[10:06] <gardengnome> superm1: just need to brush up my bash skills a bit ;)
[10:29] <gardengnome> could someone please tell me why this clean target: http://www.pastebin.ca/483620 results in this error message: http://www.pastebin.ca/483623
[10:30] <gardengnome> i have the feeling it's something embarrassing
[10:39] <superm1> dont you need a ; then
[10:39] <superm1> after the if [ ! -f Makefile ] 
[10:40] <superm1> er wait...
[10:40] <superm1> thats not what you added
[10:40] <gardengnome> yeah, sorry
[10:40] <superm1> you added the if [ -a configfiles ] ; then
[10:40] <superm1> right?
[10:40] <gardengnome> yep
[10:40] <superm1> dont use the semicolon at the end of the line i dont think if your only doing one command
[10:40] <superm1> for the move
[10:41] <superm1> also debian/rules isn't done in bash necessarily
[10:41] <superm1> i'm not sure you can even use that if
[10:42] <superm1> i saw during the clean target you just move unconditionally
[10:42] <superm1> at bery worst if the file is already clean, then nothing happens
[10:42] <gardengnome> ah.
[10:42] <superm1> s/bery/very/
[10:42] <gardengnome> that might explains things. :)
[10:42] <gardengnome> i was afraid an exit code !0 would break stuff
[10:43] <gardengnome> thanks.
[10:43] <hugolp> HI I alter my PCM volume level to 100% and then when I watch live tv with mythtv and I rewind or go forward it goes back to 70%. If I change it again to 100% it stays there until I forward o rewind that goes back to 70%. How can I make it stay at 100%?
[10:44] <gardengnome> superm1: that's not true :( http://www.pastebin.ca/483644
[10:44] <superm1> ha. wow
[10:44] <superm1> wouldnt have expected that
[10:45] <superm1> hugolp, you have to change the setting in Settings/General
[10:45] <hugolp> thanks superm1
[10:45] <gardengnome> superm1: i'll try something else then :)
[10:45] <superm1> gl gardengnome
[10:46] <superm1> how about you do a mkdir -p contribfiles
[10:46] <superm1> and then move the contents of contribfiles rather than the directory itself
[10:48] <DaveMorri1> hey all
[10:48] <DaveMorri1> we got some time to make a list of what needs doing?
[10:49] <superm1> sure DaveMorri1, in like 10 or 20 min i'll be right back and we can update the list
[10:49] <DaveMorri1> Daviey: Ping
[10:49] <Daviey> Pong
[10:49] <DaveMorri1> you free in 10-20 mins?
[10:49] <DaveMorri1> for ^^
[10:49] <Daviey> should be
[10:50] <gardengnome> superm1: sounds sensible, thanks.
[10:50] <superm1> in 10-20 min i'll be free
[11:20] <gardengnome> is superm1 going to come back?
[11:22] <DaveMorris> I'm rready
[11:22] <Daviey> gardengnome, he's getting cable internet installed..... so your guess is as good as how reliable the cable guys are :)
[11:22] <gardengnome> Daviey: ah :)
[11:23] <gardengnome> because i'd rather rewrite the packaging stuff instead of moving configfiles. the latter is just too annoying ;)
[11:23] <gardengnome> the clean target tends to break when mv/cp can't find a file
[11:23] <Daviey> gardengnome, to be honest - long term sounds better to rewrite to incorporate new changes
[11:24] <gardengnome> yeah
[11:24] <gardengnome> i'd just need to move a few lines around i think
[11:29] <DaveMorris> poke me when we're ready
[11:35] <Daviey> k
[11:38] <superm1> okay guys i think i'm back
[11:38] <superm1> my cable modem seems to not like me very much though
[11:38] <DaveMorris> always the way
[11:39] <DaveMorris> Daviey: poke
[11:39] <superm1> i had better luck on my neighbors internet :)
[11:39] <Daviey> here.. thanks
[11:40] <superm1> so we should update the team goals page
[11:40] <superm1> on w.u.c
[11:40] <Daviey> wiki?
[11:40] <gardengnome> superm1: are you *sure* you don't want me to rewrite debian/rules to accomodate for the new location of configfiles/? that'd be a lot cleaner (and less annoying for me)
[11:40] <superm1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MythTVTeam
[11:41] <Daviey> i didn't even know that page existed!
[11:41] <superm1> gardengnome, how much of a rewrite are you talking?
[11:41] <superm1> hasnt been updated in a while though :)
[11:42] <superm1> let me parse through the stuff that was proposed and finished, and then we can go through the goals that are left and add to them
[11:42] <Daviey> Okay.... are you looking to set goals for mythbuntu or mythtv specifically?
[11:43] <DaveMorris> I'd like to see goals we can work towards to have mythbuntu released with gutsy
[11:43] <gardengnome> superm1: not much. i'd just need to move the lines that handle contrib/configfiles up.. i'll tell you when i come up with something that's working and looks sane
[11:44] <superm1> i think goals for mythbuntu are more appropriate, since they also affect mythtv source package
[11:45] <superm1> k gardengnome
[11:45] <superm1> perhaps launchpad is a better place for this
[11:45] <superm1> under the mythbuntu heading
[11:45] <DaveMorris> like are we gonna focus on mythbuntu for the frontend 1st, both or backend
[11:45] <superm1> well atm it works for frontend off a disk
[11:46] <superm1> i tried it with my roomates box
[11:46] <superm1> and he was even able to watch hidef off the disk
[11:46] <superm1> i'd like to focus on all three at the same time
[11:47] <DaveMorris> ok, also are we gonna build support in for mini-itx boards, specifically the openchrome drivers which need to be built
[11:47] <superm1> well that should be something that will need to be added
[11:47] <Daviey> Do they exist in deb format?
[11:47] <DaveMorris> not 6 months ago
[11:47] <Daviey> google-foo skills brb
[11:47] <superm1> i think the best approach to this whole thing is to prioritize the things that need to go into the installer
[11:47] <DaveMorris> not sure if thats a licencing issue or not
[11:48] <superm1> so questions that need to be addressed, BE, FE, BE/FE?
[11:48] <superm1> lirc?
[11:48] <superm1> detect openchrome unichrome
[11:48] <superm1> and detect if firmware is needed for anything on the machine
[11:48] <Daviey> seems not - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenChrome  (last edited recently)  - still need SVN...  DaveMorris do you have a mini-itx box?
[11:48] <DaveMorris> we'll need scripts to download the firmware
[11:48] <superm1> setup binary drivers
[11:48] <superm1> setup tv out
[11:48] <DaveMorris> Daviey: Yes
[11:48] <DaveMorris> with PAL TV-OUT
[11:49] <Daviey> DaveMorris, can you look into debianiazing it?
[11:49] <DaveMorris> sure
[11:49] <superm1> aye, so no build env on disk will be the goal
[11:49] <superm1> have binaries of everything
[11:49] <Daviey> superm1, lirc - i thought we were putting it on hold in favour of the Media Centre guys?
[11:49] <superm1> exactly
[11:49] <DaveMorris> we're not allowed to ship the firmware for cards are we, so we need scripts to grab those for the backends
[11:50] <superm1> after they finish it off, we can still configure it
[11:50] <superm1> yes
[11:50] <DaveMorris> who'sg
[11:50] <superm1> unless we can get the +1 from companies whom have the firmware
[11:50] <DaveMorris> who's gonna add these to launchpad?
[11:50] <Daviey> DaveMorris, are you sure licencing doesn't allow shipment.... An email might be worth it.  ITX seem quite linux friendly
[11:50] <superm1> i can after i finish up cleaning this mythtv team page unless one of you really wants to
[11:51] <DaveMorris> I'm not sure but I'll find out why they aren't in ubuntu
[11:52] <Daviey> Next we need to look at other ways of making mythbuntu rock
[11:52] <DaveMorris> is the frontend just gonna have mythtv in, or the plugins as well
[11:53] <Daviey> I mean, what are other Mythtv distro's doing that we aren't?
[11:53] <DaveMorris> an option to install a readonly frontend to flash card would be cool
[11:53] <Daviey> soundn't be too hard
[11:53] <Daviey> flashcard / usb pendrive
[11:53] <superm1> all plugins are installed by default atm .  thats another question that will need to be asked in the installer
[11:54] <Daviey> I would like to see an Advanced option and a Basic -> basic installs everything and doesn't ask, advanced asks all these questions
[11:54] <Daviey> need to draw a tree really with all possible options we need to add to ubiquity
[11:54] <superm1> Well some of these questions are relevant only if particular hardware will be present though
[11:55] <superm1> Had one at one point, but it got scrapped because it was getting too large and complex
[11:55] <Daviey> How many people use non-standard hardware?
[11:55] <DaveMorris> might also wanna look at getting the various sound cards to work
[11:55] <DaveMorris> 5.1, digital, stero
[11:56] <Daviey> been some recent bug reports about sound.
[11:56] <superm1> i'll see if i can get jetsaridem to pop in
[11:56] <superm1> and majoridiot too
[11:56] <superm1> and add some input
[11:56] <Daviey> Haven't seen much of majoridiot recently
[11:56] <DaveMorris> also we should try and guess the mpeg decoder needed by the frontend, and is there a way to auto dected a backend?
[11:57] <Daviey> broadcast ping?
[11:57] <Daviey> on mythbackend port?
[11:57] <superm1> backend autodetection is coming in the next release of mythtv
[11:57] <superm1> from what i heard
[11:57] <Daviey> we'll ignore that then :)
[11:57] <superm1> there is a branch that handles auto configuration of a lot of things
[11:58] <superm1> including tuners from what i understood
[11:58] <Daviey> this year or next?
[11:58] <superm1> so thinking about the possibility of a "Standard" or "Advanced" install
[11:58] <superm1> well next release, whenever it is
[11:58] <Daviey> normally end of summer isn't it?  October time?
[11:58] <superm1> no "normal" time
[11:59] <DaveMorris> also we might wanna change the default file system on the backend so its not ext3
[11:59] <superm1> myth releases arent really predictable until they get closer
[11:59] <superm1> DaveMorris, either that or enable slow deletes by default
[11:59] <Daviey> but why use ext3?
[11:59] <DaveMorris> ext3 is the ubuntu default I think
[11:59] <superm1> good point
[12:00] <DaveMorris> advanced options would be to easily setup muliple backends
[12:00] <superm1> so for a std install, perhaps install a FE/BE with all plugins
[12:00] <Daviey> Who was looking at hacking ubiquity?
[12:00] <superm1> and then do hardware questions as needed
[12:01] <Daviey> themes-unoffical?
[12:01] <superm1> yes and that by default for std
[12:01] <DaveMorris> do we know any artists?
[12:01] <superm1> jetsradiem was for a while, and i started to, but then finals came around
[12:01] <superm1> and i had to step back from putting too much time into everything
[12:01] <Daviey> I went through it briefly - it's a real mess!
[12:01] <DaveMorris> finals are great, I'm just signing onto a Masters :/
[12:02] <superm1> just spoke with jetsradiem, he cant stop in, but i'll cc him a transcript of our talk here
[12:02] <Daviey> DaveMorris, are you being sponsored?
[12:02] <superm1> he is emailing one of the installer guys about some more info that he needed that he will then CC me
[12:02] <DaveMorris> yeah, best bit of working in a uni
[12:03] <Daviey> DaveMorris, rogue780|mythser seems quite handy with gimp
[12:03] <superm1> okay back to what i was saying about what goes into std.  so we have be/fe, all plugins, all themes and only provide the hardware questions depending on the hardware that is detecting
[12:03] <superm1> anything else we need for a standard install?
[12:04] <DaveMorris> auto start myth on boot up, and auto log into ubuntu
[12:04] <Daviey> superm1, should we do autodetection with v1?
[12:04] <superm1> all done already :)
[12:04] <DaveMorris> we doing the std install on gnome?
[12:04] <Daviey> nope
[12:04] <superm1> the ubuntu-mythtv-frontend package that i wrote earlier does that
[12:04] <superm1> and it also parses for nvidia settings or lirc irxec info if they install it
[12:05] <Daviey> didn't know that either
[12:05] <DaveMorris> I'm just wondering if sorting out the sound problems for users etc will be easier on gnome, as they will get help from most people then
[12:05] <superm1> DaveMorris,  our env is highly customized with openbox
[12:05] <superm1> for the wm
[12:05] <Daviey> DaveMorris, have you tried the ISO in a virtual machine?
[12:05] <DaveMorris> nope, I booted it up on real hardware
[12:06] <Daviey> okay - have you tried installing :)
[12:06] <DaveMorris> took a couple of attempts once it was loaded to launch the myth frontend
[12:06] <DaveMorris> nope, I need to sort my hardware out 1st
[12:06] <Daviey> odd - do you know why?
[12:06] <DaveMorris> my incompentence, expecting it to be like gnome :)
[12:07] <Daviey> DaveMorris, we did initially think about having a full gnome install - as a 'passive' advertising
[12:07] <DaveMorris> but thats it.  People are going to expect the desktop to be like gnome if they have to interact with it
[12:07] <Daviey> but don't think we can fit it on the ISO - so we dropped that
[12:07] <superm1> there is no way that a full ubuntu-desktop install will fit on the ISO with all of our stuff
[12:07] <superm1> our stuff + X is at 350 right now
[12:07] <gardengnome> remove openoffice.org
[12:07] <superm1> its going to be another 50-100 after the unofficial themes are added
[12:08] <DaveMorris> prehaps do a dvd with gnome
[12:08] <DaveMorris> :)
[12:08] <Daviey> also openbox should start faster than gnome - which is a plus for everday useage
[12:08] <superm1> well DaveMorris what in gnome did you miss?
[12:08] <superm1> i mean we can always add functionality to our env
[12:09] <Daviey> DaveMorris, i do when the electric bill comes in - then get back to my old habits
[12:09] <DaveMorris> superm1: nothing I can think of.
[12:09] <DaveMorris> Daviey: mini-itx are cheap, about 25w at full load :)
[12:10] <Daviey> think it could be a bad idea to maintain a dvd iso
[12:10] <superm1> i think for now its better to leave gnome out, and get the rest done
[12:10] <DaveMorris> atm yes
[12:10] <superm1> if we have room on the disk, consider it
[12:10] <Daviey> agreed
[12:10] <gardengnome> sorry for interrupting you guys, but could someone tell me please the package content of mythtv-backend? (eg pastebin 'apt-file show mythtv-backend')? i don't have a feisty box handy and launchpad... well, it's weird.
[12:10] <superm1> but i think the disk is going to keep filling up more and more (adding mythweb adds apache, etc)
[12:11] <superm1> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=mythtv-backend&version=feisty&arch=i386
[12:12] <Daviey> Okay... what are our immediate goals?
[12:12] <gardengnome> superm1: thanks
[12:12] <superm1> well i think ubiquity is the big one for all of this
[12:12] <superm1> i think the standard install is a good immediate goal
[12:12] <superm1> and then add the advanced afterwords
[12:13] <superm1> after talking to jetsradiem though, it appears they might just be one in the same
[12:13] <Daviey> So we just need to hook in the extra packages?
[12:13] <DaveMorris> so if we break the std install goal down into smaller ones which people can pick up and look into
[12:13] <superm1> reasoning being is that ubiquity is really a debconf frontend
[12:13] <superm1> so when we do a standard install, it is more like enabling options for every piece of the advanced
[12:14] <superm1> yes DaveMorris
[12:14] <superm1> being that it is indeed a debconf frontend, it is easier to remove packages at the end by marking them in apt to be wiped
[12:14] <superm1> and have everything preinstalled
[12:14] <DaveMorris> also prehaps have a list of hardware people have access to so we can make sure we're not duplicating testing, or someone isn't doing it all
[12:15] <superm1> indeed good idea
[12:15] <superm1> so the next big complication
[12:15] <superm1> mythtv-setup
[12:15] <superm1> i have all of the work necessary to launch it at the end of the install prior to reboot done
[12:15] <Daviey> mythtv-setup does little more than add stuff to the db, right?
[12:15] <Daviey> (and tuning ofc)
[12:15] <superm1> well it configures the db for the first time
[12:16] <superm1> some of the stuff done in it can be done by us
[12:16] <superm1> with mysql commands
[12:16] <Daviey> that''s what i was about to say!
[12:16] <superm1> thats 3 times today DaveMorris
[12:16] <superm1> oops Daviey
[12:16] <DaveMorris> hehe
[12:16] <superm1> but i think there is a big enough part of it still that makes it necessary to run mythtv-setup
[12:16] <Daviey> ie Tuning
[12:16] <superm1> yes
[12:17] <superm1> and adding channel data
[12:17] <superm1> etc
[12:17] <Daviey> need to also get tv-guide wrapped up
[12:17] <DaveMorris> so we need to ask them what country they are in
[12:17] <DaveMorris> I assume we're only able to do US and UK for the 1st releases
[12:17] <superm1> well that can be handled by the time zone information at the start of the install can it not?
[12:17] <superm1> what we *can* do however, is modify the mythtv source packages for better defaults of some of the options
[12:18] <superm1> thats how i enabled ALSA to be the default for audio rather than OSS from now forward
[12:19] <Daviey> so we can't do much with Ubiquity until we hear back from Jetstream
[12:20] <superm1> well we can get our entire storyboard assembled
[12:20] <superm1> for the install process
[12:20] <superm1> something like a flow chart
[12:20] <superm1> or a state machine if you will
[12:20] <Daviey> DFA ftw :)
[12:23] <superm1> so any good apps for assembling a story board like this?
[12:23] <Daviey> Launchpad can do flow charts?
[12:23] <superm1> can it?
[12:23] <Daviey> not sure if it is for planning or something else
[12:23] <Daviey> but i know i have seen flow charts on it
[12:23] <gardengnome> superm1: maybe you like freemind
[12:23] <gardengnome> it's a mindmapping application
[12:23] <gardengnome> dunno if it suits your needs, though
[12:24] <DaveMorris> superm1: MS Visio ;)
[12:24] <superm1> lets see if freemind is in apt
[12:24] <superm1> apt-cache search freemind
[12:24] <superm1> kdissert - mindmapping tool
[12:24] <superm1> heard of that one gardengnome ?
[12:24] <gardengnome> no
[12:25] <gardengnome> freemind is java app
[12:25] <gardengnome> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[12:25] <Daviey> There was a recent disccusion of them on a mailing list recently
[12:25] <Daviey> wikipedia has a list of mind mapping apps
[12:25] <Daviey> i think we should certainly keep the file in bzr tho
[12:25] <superm1> looks like kdissert might be able to do it pretty easily
[12:26] <superm1> daviey we should move our branch for mythbuntu
[12:26] <superm1> over to the mythbuntu section on LP
[12:26] <Daviey> set up a mythbuntu team now?
[12:26] <superm1> dont even need a team for it i dont think, because a project can have a code section